Latest / age / Ep. 11: Influencers, Authenticity & The Connection We're Faking

Transcript

Ep. 11: Influencers, Authenticity & The Connection We're Faking · age

0:00
Tim, what was your favorite thing about today's episode?
0:03
My favorite part was when Jen brought influencers back to friendship in the craziest way.
0:09
Nice, nice.
0:10
Camille, what was your favorite part?
0:12
Oh, I think my favorite part was when we were talking about re-evaluating brand stories.
0:15
It made me feel like I would always have a job.
0:17
Good.
0:18
Jen?
0:19
My favorite part was actually when Camille was telling like the real truth about what it's like
0:24
to look for jobs right now because it's such an important issue that affects all of us.
0:29
Look at you being so educational.
0:31
Reggie?
0:32
You know, my favorite part was when Tim used a really cool analogy as it pertains to influencers
0:37
and I loved it.
0:38
See?
0:39
And get the spotlight on Will, what was your favorite part?
0:41
I like getting to know our two guests.
0:43
It was fun.
0:44
Yeah.
0:45
My favorite part was being a fly on the wall and getting to watch it all.
0:49
What a nice ride.
1:00
I just got this.
1:01
This sounds like a decalickity fly.
1:03
No, we're getting it in a good topic.
1:05
Hopefully it's humorous.
1:06
Enjoy this.
1:07
Enjoy this.
1:08
Come on, beaks.
1:09
We're doing an episode.
1:14
Hey, everyone.
1:15
Welcome to episode 11 of Age.
1:18
I'm not going to do an intro this time.
1:20
I always try an intro and I just...
1:22
Love your intro.
1:23
Yeah.
1:25
That's me watching.
1:26
I'm like, what was that?
1:27
This show is all about thinking on your feet.
1:29
We have four people here from different generations and we pull a topic out of trashcan
1:34
that's randomly chosen in the morning that we are doing this right now.
1:38
And we just discuss it.
1:40
And we go to some deep places, some random places, some funny places.
1:43
Rabbit, how do you hear?
1:45
Sometimes we're heated places.
1:46
Sometimes?
1:47
Yeah.
1:48
Like two episodes ago, we got into a little bit of a heated place.
1:50
And then we actually...
1:51
Right at the table later.
1:52
Because we all love each other so often.
1:54
It definitely comes in after an episode.
1:57
We'll make sure everything's okay.
1:58
I know, right?
1:59
I think we'll show you the media.
2:00
Well, if you ever seem like we need...
2:02
Dylan one time just walked off set.
2:03
She's like, no, can't take this.
2:04
And I would like to say to...
2:08
You might recognize or not recognize a couple of people in a set with us today.
2:13
And that's because Dylan has taken a break.
2:15
Well, Mary has also taken a break.
2:17
And we have two new guests.
2:20
We have Jen Mayer.
2:21
Hello.
2:22
Who is a branch strategist, creative director.
2:25
Yep.
2:26
There's one more.
2:27
Writer?
2:28
Badass.
2:29
Storyteller.
2:30
Storyteller.
2:31
Total badass.
2:32
TEDxer.
2:33
Owner.
2:34
Her company is called...
2:35
Or the new company is called Knitted.
2:36
Nice.
2:37
Social Architecture.
2:38
Company centered around friendship.
2:40
I am hiring you for all my shit.
2:43
Yes.
2:44
Remember it all.
2:45
That's amazing.
2:47
I will say I actually saw her TEDx.
2:49
I was in the audience.
2:50
And that's when I was like, she's amazing.
2:52
She used to be...
2:53
She's not released yet.
2:54
So Regious and behind the scenes live watching of the talk, which really happened a couple of months ago.
3:00
Her whole talk resonated with me about friendship and like cultivating it through experiences, which I thought was really cool.
3:06
So it comes down on six, nine, eight or nine.
3:10
Eight, next Monday.
3:11
Okay.
3:12
You're listening or watching this in actual time.
3:16
But yeah.
3:17
Next Monday.
3:18
All right.
3:19
So you can watch it.
3:20
I think we'll provide the links.
3:21
You want to say it came out yesterday.
3:23
Oh, that's true.
3:25
This will come out a few weeks later.
3:27
So it'll be out already.
3:28
And we'll put some links below so that you can internet sleuth, Jen.
3:32
Yes.
3:33
Now Camille, I internet sleuthed you earlier.
3:35
And I looked at your link, and I didn't see a lot.
3:39
So I know you're creative.
3:40
Yes.
3:41
Yeah.
3:42
So I just graduated with my bachelor's of fine arts from ETSU.
3:45
Congratulations.
3:46
Thank you so much.
3:47
I'm looking for job experience right now.
3:49
This is kind of like a great way for me to network right now.
3:52
And I work part time with ETSU just a little bit with their school of the arts.
3:56
But yeah.
3:57
I'm here to make your education.
3:59
What part of your education did you just love?
4:02
Like in graphic design.
4:04
Yeah.
4:05
Like in graphic design and design itself and strategy.
4:08
I really liked the research component.
4:10
Like I love getting into the nitty gritty of like a brand story or like any sort of just background.
4:15
Yes.
4:16
That's the neat potatoes right there.
4:19
That's the stuff we love.
4:20
We keep out on brand story.
4:21
Yeah.
4:22
I think story in general is the defining foundation of how we understand life.
4:27
Absolutely.
4:28
Absolutely.
4:29
And I'll encourage you here.
4:30
Like while we're talking, if a story comes up about your life, tell it.
4:35
I think it goes further than like trying to like logically explain something.
4:38
Even though that has to happen.
4:40
Yeah.
4:41
But if it triggers a story.
4:42
Story makes reality.
4:43
Right.
4:44
It's like that.
4:45
Yeah.
4:46
It makes these beliefs of these things we live within like a movement that we live within.
4:51
I think story brings clarity to reality because we're all walking in reality.
4:55
And sometimes we can't decipher what the hell is going on.
4:58
But story is the thing that says, hey, this is what's going on.
5:01
Right.
5:02
I love that.
5:03
I love that part.
5:04
And it makes a lot of sense with brand as well.
5:06
Yes, for sure.
5:07
Yeah.
5:08
So it's glad to have you.
5:09
Yes.
5:10
Thank you so much.
5:11
A lot of viewers.
5:12
Yes.
5:13
All right.
5:14
So we're going to do our thing and pull a topic out of the trash.
5:16
Let's do it.
5:17
Oh, yeah.
5:18
Last question.
5:19
I like it.
5:20
You get a guess.
5:21
Last week.
5:22
Who was a social media strategist?
5:24
I guess who we picked.
5:26
Social media.
5:27
No joke.
5:28
It was neat.
5:29
It was the cool.
5:30
I picked it.
5:31
And now it's going to be just not getting boring.
5:34
And now everyone says brand story.
5:36
Yes.
5:37
I pulled it.
5:38
And I was like, you got to be kidding me.
5:40
I walked up and showed it to the camera.
5:43
Although second, I'm going to move this guy over by this guy.
5:46
I mean, this mic.
5:47
Did you get instructed?
5:49
Will instruct either will camera.
5:51
He wants to hear my voice more resonantly.
5:53
I want to give a shout out to Will.
5:55
He's always keeping us honest.
5:56
What's the man?
5:57
Thanks, Will.
5:58
How's this?
5:59
Better.
6:00
Okay.
6:01
All right.
6:02
I'm not going to let you guys see this because it's going to be a surprise.
6:05
I'm not even looking at it.
6:06
Watch this.
6:07
Is it right side up?
6:08
Yes.
6:09
Okay.
6:10
I haven't even seen it.
6:11
Oh, you have a new.
6:12
You're going to be surprised.
6:14
All right.
6:16
Influencer.
6:17
Oh.
6:18
Influencer.
6:19
Interesting.
6:20
What's your first reaction to it?
6:25
I told you that I can be a little feisty.
6:29
You didn't say a little feisty.
6:30
You said fucking feisty.
6:31
Yes.
6:32
Which I love feisty.
6:33
I love it.
6:34
It relates.
6:35
I have a lot of opinions.
6:38
Influencer.
6:39
Man, when I hear that, I just get this like.
6:44
Like this.
6:45
Something.
6:46
It's like the voice.
6:47
It's like the voice.
6:48
Yeah.
6:49
That's exactly what I was going to say.
6:50
The voice at the same time.
6:51
Really?
6:52
Oh my god.
6:53
That's hilarious.
6:54
How the word I was expecting.
6:57
You know, a lot of the voice didn't know.
7:03
I know.
7:04
The voice is permanently cemented in my brain.
7:06
What do you mean by voice?
7:07
Like, I mean that it's a, it's a role.
7:10
I don't even want to call it a job, but I guess it's a job now.
7:12
It's a role that exists that didn't exist anymore.
7:15
That's just made of fluff.
7:18
It's very fluff-induced.
7:20
Yeah.
7:21
The idea that just by presenting a lifestyle or way of being
7:27
that is baked beyond anybody's actual expectations
7:31
of how they could live a life, then you make money off of that.
7:35
We're kind of doing nothing other than just being on camera.
7:39
So it kind of gives me the X like.
7:42
Totally.
7:43
Totally.
7:44
Yeah, I get that.
7:45
Like a new cereal and it's just soggy.
7:48
You hate cereal.
7:50
I just like the wet and dry combination.
7:54
I like the know-lows.
7:56
It's like the perfect meal.
7:57
Like both.
7:58
It is.
7:59
I'm just one bite.
8:00
You're eating your eating at the same thing.
8:02
I'm a big girl.
8:03
I don't know.
8:04
I'm in both.
8:05
I definitely.
8:06
Sorry.
8:07
I got some kind of a visceral response.
8:09
And now we're on Captain Crunch.
8:11
How did...
8:12
The influencer.
8:13
Influencer got to cereal for you in terms of icky-ness.
8:17
So what's your icky-quality about influencers?
8:19
I think it's that there's a level of like gluttony almost.
8:25
100%.
8:26
Yes.
8:27
Like I think that it's kind of a selfish lifestyle they lead in a sense.
8:30
Not everyone to an extent, but if you think of like the income they're making,
8:34
how you said it wasn't a job before and now it is.
8:36
They're making money compared like way more than any of us could fathom.
8:41
And then flaunting it on the internet trying to promote this lifestyle that's unrealistic.
8:46
It's all social media driven.
8:48
And so yeah, it does make me feel the way cereal does.
8:51
Yeah.
8:52
Gross.
8:53
Influencer.
8:55
Serial.
8:56
I have kind of a visceral response to it as well because of similar reasons.
9:01
I think it's this...
9:03
I blame influencers.
9:05
It's kind of bittersweet because I know some influencers and I know that they're just doing the thing they love.
9:12
They're influencers because they are kick-ass at yoga and they are influencers in that world.
9:17
Where they amass.
9:18
Like yeah, they amass hundreds of thousands of followers because they're just doing what they love.
9:23
And those people are absolutely respect.
9:25
But I do think there are these influencers out there who are painting the picture of this lifestyle
9:30
to what Camille said that doesn't really not as attainable.
9:34
You can just travel around the world and buy all these fancy things and not have to work and this is your life.
9:41
And the reality is all those things are given to them by the brands that want them to shout out their brand.
9:48
And so they're not buying all these things.
9:51
And the job they have is being an influencer.
9:53
They're being paid to do this thing.
9:56
And so it's not for everybody.
9:58
And ain't that just the way that someone that doesn't need to buy the product.
10:02
Gets it for free.
10:03
Easily buy the product.
10:04
Totally.
10:05
And they get it for free.
10:06
Yes.
10:07
And find out the most.
10:08
Just like celebrities.
10:09
There's a lot of celebrities that are like, oh, what are you wearing today?
10:12
Oh, this is a Gucci bag.
10:14
It's like, what did that cost?
10:15
I don't know.
10:16
They just gave it to me.
10:17
Yeah, they trust me.
10:18
You could about 20 of those.
10:19
I wonder even though if there's the darker side under that is that many of them,
10:24
because you think of the giant pool of influencers that we have.
10:27
I bet many of them are just scraping by.
10:29
Right.
10:30
And they're putting this front on.
10:32
It's all the front.
10:33
You know, how much they're getting and how much they're doing.
10:36
Right.
10:37
And like, they really need that more than the celebrity does.
10:40
Yeah.
10:41
Yeah.
10:42
Well, it's a good point.
10:43
If the word influencer, like, that's a red herring.
10:45
Like, if there needs to be another word for the people who are doing the thing that they love
10:50
and sharing it.
10:51
Right.
10:52
That's a catalyst.
10:53
Because they're not influencers.
10:54
It doesn't have a word.
10:55
That's a good point.
10:56
And then there's influencers.
10:57
It's the passionate that has an influence.
10:58
Yes.
10:59
Versus an influencer trying to have an influence.
11:00
Yes.
11:01
It's a good point.
11:02
And then there's a fake or any others are making their ones to actually do in that thing.
11:05
Right.
11:06
I think influencer has anything to do with the numbers that they have falling because we're
11:09
with nearly all creators are not necessarily considered influencers.
11:12
That's true.
11:13
And that's why maybe they're like in the green, like they're dead.
11:15
They're fine.
11:16
But then these people have more numbers behind their name.
11:18
They have more.
11:19
It gets to their head more, I guess.
11:20
And I'm sure that you get to a point where all you're thinking about is those numbers.
11:26
Yeah.
11:27
500,000 followers and literally 500,000 people know my face.
11:31
And know who I am.
11:32
And I'm sure because of the human condition, it's going to mess with you.
11:36
Let's take a vote.
11:37
Let's take a vote.
11:38
How many of us remember life before influencers?
11:43
You're a very unique perspective here.
11:45
Well, like I'm an internet child.
11:47
Yes.
11:48
You're born into a life of influencers almost.
11:50
Yeah.
11:51
It was always like, maybe it's my generation thing, but people might idolize people.
11:56
Influencers, actors, celebrities, anything.
11:58
Anything, how you are to get an icky feeling about it, even though it's kind of been part of your culture.
12:04
I think the icky feeling comes with maturity, like I'm saving money and jobs and all that and kind of maybe looking at it and being like,
12:12
Oh, well, how am I on social media posting the same things that they do.
12:16
And yet they have like 100,000 followers and just doing all these trends.
12:20
So I think just the maturity part or like conscious thinking of like,
12:25
Oh, well, these people are doing whatever their job is now, but yeah, no, I can't.
12:30
I really can't imagine my life without like being 10 on YouTube and watching people or whatever.
12:35
Was there any training in your education about being an influencer or learning about influencers?
12:40
Not training to be an influencer, but maybe partnering or like helping support and things like that.
12:47
Yeah, marketing for sure.
12:48
Yeah, that's what it's usually every job has like a path to becoming.
12:53
And I don't know the influencers have like, we're going to take the influencer 101 course.
12:58
I think so.
12:59
I mean, you probably get by that online.
13:00
I was going to say, I think some influencers do have to teach you.
13:03
Yeah.
13:04
I have an issue with this subject because I do have an issue with this false front,
13:12
this acting as if you have and you have not, because I think it puts a lot of pressure on everyone to be at this same level.
13:20
It kind of makes a group of people who are like in the in crowd and those that are in the out crowd.
13:25
Yeah.
13:26
Totally high school all over again.
13:27
It is.
13:28
And it does.
13:29
I think it is intentionally made to where it touches on some trauma that we experience.
13:34
I was just talking to my wife about the pool we go to.
13:37
It's an incredible pool East Asheville community pool.
13:41
I can't remember the actual name is, but it's a really highly desired pool to be a part of.
13:45
It's just this random little pool in the middle of East Asheville surrounded by trees.
13:49
And it has a six year waiting list.
13:52
Well, you want to join the community.
13:54
It's not that expensive.
13:55
But if you want to join, you have to wait for like five or six years for someone to leave.
13:58
At that time, your kids like, I know what you're saying.
14:01
We don't have pool anymore.
14:03
Right.
14:04
And so we joined back before, I guess before it was that popular because we haven't always.
14:08
We haven't passed down a membership through my family line and everything.
14:12
But I was talking to me and about, I don't like to get a pool.
14:16
I don't know what it is.
14:18
It's just this feeling of like coming to my pool though.
14:20
I do.
14:21
But your pool is so laid back and chill.
14:23
There's a ton of people there.
14:24
It's a private and a public.
14:25
Yeah.
14:26
And but it does have this vibe of like this old vintage.
14:29
You know that picture you have in your mind.
14:32
And you know, like the 70s pool with all the kids.
14:35
Oh, yeah.
14:36
Everybody's around the pool.
14:37
Yeah, yeah.
14:38
It's like this really blisterous community.
14:40
Yeah, yeah.
14:41
Yeah, that feeling.
14:42
But there's also this, I'm bringing it this up because of the high school trauma thing.
14:46
There's this one group where they all know each other.
14:48
Sure.
14:49
And they sit.
14:50
And these three or four tables with their umbrellas.
14:53
And they own this whole section.
14:55
And it looks so fun.
14:57
Like why was it there?
14:58
Actually they like go sit in that section where you get out.
15:01
I told the close audience that I was like felt like I was on the fringe.
15:05
I was on the outside of this crowd.
15:06
He's like, get you a table.
15:08
He says, I get there just get you there.
15:13
The same time I keep put you in, get you in there.
15:16
I felt like I was like joining this special club.
15:18
But I get this feeling with influencers that like I have the, I have the direct line.
15:23
Right.
15:24
To the to the brand.
15:25
And I have all this money and I'm free.
15:27
And I can do whatever I want.
15:29
And it makes the rest of us feel like we're living a life that's not a good act.
15:32
We're on the outside.
15:33
Definitely.
15:34
And I don't know.
15:35
Are you in now?
15:36
Are you doing this?
15:37
No.
15:38
You tell your wife you're like, honey.
15:39
I can't come over here yet.
15:40
I'm in.
15:41
I'll get you in.
15:42
I got a first one.
15:43
You're old.
15:44
Your kids are watching you from the other side of the pool.
15:49
Like why is daddy over there?
15:51
I'll be an influencer now at the pool.
15:53
But I do feel though that these people have adapted to a changing environment.
16:00
You know, like when you have, like AI is changing our environment right now.
16:05
Yeah.
16:06
And people that are adapting get kind of shit thrown at them.
16:11
Yeah.
16:12
You know, like anyone that mentions AI in a positive.
16:15
Oh, right, right.
16:16
She in the creative pool.
16:17
Absolutely.
16:18
Just thrashed with like, you're just taking away jobs.
16:20
Right.
16:21
Yeah.
16:22
And I think influencers got the same trash talk.
16:24
And I think they actually went through a popular phase.
16:27
Yeah.
16:28
You know, like we didn't know it was a thing yet.
16:29
Yeah.
16:30
Like these persons are awesome.
16:31
They're getting, like, where are these cool things?
16:32
They do these cool trips.
16:33
Right.
16:34
And then all of a sudden we're inundated with like everyone's an influencer.
16:37
And you didn't know whether someone was authentic.
16:39
Yeah.
16:40
That's the word.
16:41
Right.
16:42
You didn't know if it was authentic the thing they were influencing you with.
16:45
Right.
16:46
And I don't really think influencers is a new thing.
16:48
I mean, like what is every political campaign, but an influencer campaign?
16:52
Yeah.
16:53
I mean, think about it.
16:54
I think the like factory girl, like I think a lot of like influencers have just taken on a different medium.
17:01
Like before it was the socialites that would show up at parties.
17:05
And I'm sure people with like brands would give them stuff.
17:08
Like, hey, are you going to Andy Warhol's party?
17:11
Because if you are, I'd love for you to wear my such and such.
17:14
It's the same thing.
17:15
Oh, wait.
17:16
It's like the blood light girls who would show 100%.
17:18
Yeah.
17:19
Exactly.
17:20
It's the exact same role.
17:21
It's just a different media.
17:22
And if you think about it, then the influencers, it's sort of democratized, right?
17:27
Because before you would have to be hired by, right?
17:30
Right.
17:31
Whatever, smear and off to go.
17:33
And now the influencers are like, no, I'm taking this money.
17:36
I'm going to create my platform.
17:37
Yep.
17:38
So if you flip it, it's kind of a positive thing.
17:40
You've got a whole bunch of people making money off a system that was never intended for them.
17:45
100%.
17:46
Wait a minute.
17:47
Maybe we like influencers.
17:48
They flip the script.
17:49
And they somehow, they're empowered to like go out and say, I'm going to rock.
17:53
I'm going to go in with eight different brands.
17:56
Yeah.
17:57
And when you have a corporate job, a job, right?
17:59
You're going to do this on my own terms.
18:01
And when you realize that our entire government is built on an influencer campaign, voting,
18:07
who has the most people on their team, you realize that the influencer is a political genre.
18:16
And imagine how much influence like Elon Musk had on the last presidential election.
18:20
And he wasn't always an influencer.
18:21
He was kind of a random dude that's weird and got a lot of stories written about him.
18:25
He bought X.
18:26
He started becoming an influencer on X.
18:28
Yeah.
18:29
And I think that now companies are trying to embed influencers into the world so that they
18:36
can move society because it's who people are looking at that determine the direction we're
18:41
going.
18:42
Right.
18:43
And full disclosure.
18:44
It's just kind of connected to me.
18:45
I.
18:46
You're an influencer.
18:47
Exactly.
18:48
Right.
18:49
You've done this every show.
18:50
He's like, wait a minute.
18:51
I'm an influencer.
18:52
Secret influencer.
18:53
Secret influencer.
18:54
No.
18:55
I.
18:56
Code name.
18:57
I hope to create and teach a class on IDOU, which is the IDO's online learning platform called
19:06
Storytelling for Influence.
19:07
Oh, interesting.
19:08
So I am part of the problem.
19:10
Wow.
19:11
You can be part of the solution.
19:14
The solution, like to understand what it means to be an influencer and to understand authenticity
19:19
in the world.
19:20
That's the truth.
19:21
Like we need to bring yourself to your body.
19:22
We need truth in the world right now.
19:24
Yes.
19:25
Yeah.
19:26
And a big way in ourselves.
19:27
And that's what most of the course is about is about finding your real story and telling
19:32
people real stories instead of throwing up a slide full of like fact, fact, fact, fact
19:38
where everybody turns it down.
19:39
It's like, what's the story that's going to get people engaged.
19:42
Right.
19:43
So that necessarily influencers are bad after like us talking about it.
19:46
And I think it's just the way that they portray themselves are act in general.
19:50
Yeah.
19:51
Yeah.
19:52
Well, they're bad.
19:53
They're bad, right?
19:54
Yeah.
19:55
Actually, influencers need us to plan it.
19:56
Yeah.
19:57
We're going to read brand influencer.
19:58
But it goes with the authenticity.
19:59
They give us our niche.
20:00
They're more authentic.
20:01
If they were more authentic, then they would have more like influence in a sense.
20:06
But it'd be more positive.
20:07
Yeah.
20:08
From this negative, idealistic life.
20:09
Oh, they're liable.
20:10
Do you think it is communal to be authentic in this world on camera?
20:14
I mean, the internet's social media driven.
20:17
I think it's very difficult.
20:18
And people find it easier to have a mask on the internet than it is to be authentic.
20:22
Right.
20:23
Oh, yeah.
20:24
I don't know.
20:25
People find it scary to just be human and show flaws.
20:28
It could be scary.
20:30
And I think it is fear because there is a statistic that the number one fear is like public speaking.
20:36
Really?
20:37
Even above death.
20:38
So it is a very intense fear.
20:40
You think more people, there are some people that are more afraid of...
20:43
They'd rather die.
20:44
I'm more afraid of death speaking for people.
20:46
I'm glad I cracked that one.
20:49
Yeah, right.
20:50
But also, I think that there's this element of...
20:55
I think when it's...
20:58
It's hard to determine whether or not you're feeling fear or whether you're feeling intelligent
21:03
in that you're protecting a part of your life that maybe shouldn't be out there.
21:07
I think there's a difference between privacy and authenticity, though.
21:11
Yeah.
21:12
That's true.
21:13
How do you balance privacy and authenticity?
21:14
Yeah.
21:15
You don't have to share your whole life.
21:16
Right.
21:17
Exactly.
21:18
I'm married.
21:19
I have kids.
21:20
I have a dog.
21:21
I live here.
21:22
But you could be like...
21:23
Look at me.
21:24
Come see my house.
21:25
Just know that I'm real.
21:26
Just share what you're going to share authenticity.
21:28
This is my day-to-day life.
21:29
Without the veil.
21:30
What's missing for so many influencers is the why.
21:33
Right.
21:34
And we're bringing it back to brand.
21:35
But like...
21:37
There's not often, I think, with people who are just influencers for being an influencer's sake,
21:41
a why that's driving them to share.
21:43
Whereas another one of my TEDxCo presenters this past year.
21:49
Amazing woman named Ashley who talks about hosting dinner parties.
21:53
Yeah, that was interesting.
21:54
And she's an influencer.
21:55
She is teaching people about how to host.
21:58
She shares recipes.
21:59
Does this amazing stuff?
22:01
But she's got a really deep why.
22:03
And she's talking about bringing people together across divides.
22:08
How to do it without feeling intimidated.
22:11
She's really focused on why that's important to her.
22:15
And that makes her feel like a different brand of this kind of influencer.
22:20
I'd even call her an influencer.
22:21
In a sense, she is a different brand.
22:23
She's a new type of influencer.
22:25
She's a very legitimate reason for doing the things that she do.
22:29
Which feels better than...
22:30
Like, they kind of like this makeup.
22:32
I think it kind of goes back to the smaller creators.
22:35
I think smaller creators tend to have more of a story because they're doing their passion.
22:38
Like me, like this.
22:39
There's a reason for it rather than, like you said,
22:41
I just like this makeup, like these...
22:43
Yeah.
22:44
Like, whatever.
22:45
Girls, guys, whoever on the internet that are getting PR and whatnot.
22:48
They don't have a why.
22:49
No matter how many numbers they have.
22:51
Yeah, and I just read something recently about this one particular business owner.
22:57
I'm going to call her an influencer.
22:59
She only has 5,000 followers.
23:01
But in this is a case study that someone did about her presence in the line.
23:05
She has 5,000 followers.
23:07
But all those followers are very vigorously engaged in what she's doing and buy from her.
23:15
There was this old...
23:16
I used to be a musician in a band called The Enemy Lovers.
23:19
And we were in this moment of breakdown in the industry where Apple Music was iTunes back then.
23:27
iTunes was taken over.
23:29
And so it was making albums worthless, the physical albums.
23:33
And then that stir was making actually buying digital music worthless because it was like music sharing started.
23:38
Yeah.
23:39
So there was this whole movement of a thousand real fans, a long tail fan base,
23:45
which is if you could get a thousand fans who will buy everything you put out, you can have a music career.
23:51
It's all you need.
23:52
And someone did all the work up, all the statistics on it, and that's all it really takes.
23:56
So I think the world has started to realize that you don't need 500,000 followers to actually do your business.
24:03
Yeah.
24:04
And so the one that was featuring this particular business owner is someone who has millions of followers.
24:10
But he was showing how you don't need that to make success in your life.
24:15
I love that.
24:16
Which is powerful because I think we all think we need to be, and if you're on Spotify as a musician,
24:21
you do have to be a viral hit to make any money on your music.
24:24
But if you are authentic in sharing your journey online as a musician,
24:30
you only have to have 1,000, 2,000, maybe 5,000 followers to actually start generating movement in what you do.
24:38
Imagine that micro nature, that community nature.
24:41
It goes against what we're taught in our culture, which is scale, scale, scale, scale.
24:46
Always scale.
24:47
Always got to grow, always got to grow.
24:49
There's no natural system that can support that.
24:54
On the planet, anything that grows like that, the only thing that grows like that is cancer, which kills those.
25:00
So why are we constantly trying to replicate this model that is actually killing us, right?
25:06
This idea of like we constantly have to grow.
25:09
But if you bring it back to what if I have this small community of committed people,
25:14
like that's actually what human success has always been about.
25:17
It's funny.
25:18
It brings to mind where you're going to talk about the conversation you have with our friend.
25:23
Yeah, I'll let you do it.
25:24
Well, Tim had a conversation with one of our good friends who's a big brand, got brand influences.
25:31
Who's amazed, connected to some company companies.
25:34
And he said the days of the big brand agencies that have like 40, 50 employees, 20, 30 employees are fading out.
25:45
Because it's becoming harder and harder to support that many miles.
25:49
And he feels that the agencies that are actually going to be more successful moving forward
25:55
are the ones that are very agile.
25:57
They have like two to three different, you know, creatives in house.
26:02
And that's it.
26:03
Like if you're growing and trying to scale, you are fighting a losing battle.
26:08
Do you have anything to add to that?
26:09
It's just that growth at all costs.
26:11
The cost in general.
26:12
It is, there's research on this right now where it's the first time in,
26:17
I'm trying to remember the date at which they started this study.
26:20
Anyway, since like the industrial revolution at some period,
26:24
the growth model started benefiting humanity.
26:27
Things started to change for the better.
26:30
Like in, in leaps and bounds better.
26:34
And it did that until like a couple years ago.
26:37
And the research is just now showing that the growth at all costs model is not benefiting us anymore.
26:42
Yeah.
26:43
The graph has started to drop in what benefit it's bringing to us.
26:46
And so I think people are obsessed with it because it's worked for so long.
26:49
It's kind of like capitalism.
26:51
People are obsessed with capitalism because it's worked.
26:54
And we're a very big and I would say that there is an outside perspective
27:00
that we're a very rich nation.
27:02
And I think that we are all experiencing that richness.
27:05
A lot of us are struggling.
27:08
A lot of us out there are struggling.
27:10
But so capitalism has worked for so long.
27:12
People think capitalism is good.
27:14
But you don't realize that sometimes you have something for a moment.
27:17
And then you move on to something else that can work.
27:20
It's not just supposed to be forever.
27:23
There's no creature that is what it is forever without change.
27:28
Those creatures get, they die out.
27:32
So I think that there's something to this.
27:34
And it's hard to say this in the business world.
27:36
Like if we're going to bring this to a business perspective.
27:38
If you, we run a brandy agency here in Asheville, North Carolina.
27:42
And if you go to a client and say, listen, I don't think it's wise that you scale right now.
27:47
Why?
27:48
No.
27:49
Yeah, they're like, all right.
27:50
I know you have a 600 project you want to give us.
27:53
But you know, and also there's this whole subset of businesses that you need to grow.
27:58
Right.
27:59
You need that movement.
28:00
And there are some that need to stop growing.
28:02
Yes.
28:03
So it's like if the largest tree in the forest is now 100 or 4,000 times bigger than every other tree.
28:09
Maybe that tree should start distributing some life to the other trees.
28:13
Because a forest can't live in that state.
28:16
Yep.
28:17
That tree will consume everything in that area.
28:19
100%.
28:20
What a great analogy.
28:21
A great analogy.
28:22
So I think the influencers democratize the power of this.
28:26
Like we're trying to doing this podcast.
28:28
We're trying to become influencers.
28:29
I do these little LinkedIn videos.
28:31
I'm trying to become an influencer.
28:32
I didn't think about it that way.
28:33
And it kind of eirks me to think.
28:34
But someone out there would probably leave a comment like, but again, it's influencing.
28:41
And mine is straight ahead on the upenticity thing.
28:45
I think that I call it ruthless authenticity.
28:48
Yeah.
28:49
And the reason I use that word because it's a negative connotation.
28:52
But think about all the people in the world that have been ruthless and now run our world.
28:57
Yeah.
28:58
And don't you think there should be a few of us who want something good in the world that get to that point.
29:05
That can be ruthless enough to get to that point.
29:07
Yeah.
29:08
And we all won't use that.
29:09
We don't use that playbook because it's like, oh, we don't want to be the bad person.
29:12
Right.
29:13
But to have that level of focus and discipline, like that should be determination.
29:17
Yeah.
29:19
Like you're hurting people to get there.
29:21
It's not ruthless.
29:22
And it's like, you're not doing it on the backs of other people.
29:24
You're ruthlessly being authentic.
29:25
So that you can show your truth about who you are.
29:28
Because I think right now, if we're able to influence people at a micro scale and have an impact and affect our lives,
29:34
then we can be ruthless about who we are.
29:36
Like, there's enough space for everyone to be who they are.
29:39
Yeah.
29:40
Imagine if everyone had 5,000 followers.
29:41
How many people could have followers in careers?
29:45
I mean, we're all talking about this idea of brand stuff.
29:49
What kind of gets in my head is like, if you think of all the examples of a brand or a company that has grown, grown, grown,
29:58
there is always a moment where that starts to collapse, right?
30:03
Like in every story that we know, it's like the brand gets diluted.
30:07
They hit a threshold.
30:08
They get to, you know, like the Starbucks examples.
30:12
Like they've forgotten their roots.
30:13
Now they've got to go back to coffee.
30:15
It's like, why is nobody teaching that and saying, like, this is kind of actually problematic?
30:22
Right.
30:23
You want to grow to a certain point and then know how to handle that level.
30:29
Right.
30:30
But we're all brainwashed to think, like, grows more and more and more.
30:34
Want to make this full circle that kind of goes with brand story.
30:38
Getting about it.
30:39
Yeah, companies are hitting that threshold trying to go past it.
30:42
They're forgetting about that brand story that got them to that high point.
30:45
And I think that's something that brands need to constantly reevaluate along the way.
30:49
And it's like, are we really still who we say we are?
30:52
Because we're not.
30:53
We need to like make some adjustments.
30:55
Yeah.
30:56
It's okay to change.
30:57
Right.
30:58
It's okay to change, but like, and that's what it is.
31:01
It's like, you get to a point and you check in.
31:04
Is this still who we are?
31:06
Or do we need to rewrite our story?
31:08
I always compare this growth predicament.
31:11
It's kind of a little bit of a predicament, I think, with all companies.
31:14
I compare it to a person.
31:16
So like, if you were to tell a baby, you don't need to grow.
31:20
That would be very unhealthy, but that baby would just like stop growing.
31:23
And like an infant pooping his diaper.
31:26
But so like, there is a point at which you're out of growth.
31:29
You grow as a child and as a teenage, you're growing your body's changing
31:33
and you're getting stronger and you're, and then at some point,
31:36
you're not getting bigger anymore.
31:38
Because that would be weird if you're like 20 feet tall and all lengthy.
31:41
But you start growing deeper.
31:43
Yeah.
31:44
And then you start to, I mean, there's Tony Robbins actually had a brain tumor.
31:49
And that's why he's such a big man.
31:51
So he grew abnormally.
31:53
Wait, who is that?
31:54
Tony Robbins.
31:55
Oh, that's so big.
31:56
Some people grow past the point where they should just stop growing.
31:59
Yeah, that's why he said he had a brain tumor.
32:01
Oh, that's great.
32:02
And it caused him to grow beyond what he, she was a tiny kid in high school.
32:05
Whoa.
32:06
Anyway, bring it back to a point here.
32:08
To grow until you're, the size you're supposed to be,
32:11
the person you are, and then you grow deeper.
32:13
So companies don't realize they can grow deeper.
32:15
Yeah.
32:16
You can grow deeper in your values, in your passion, in your desire,
32:20
in your vision.
32:21
The roots start to grow.
32:23
And it's not like you're getting bigger and consuming more.
32:25
You're actually just getting wiser.
32:27
Yeah.
32:28
And you're in the industry differently.
32:30
I suspect that comes down to who has a place at the table.
32:33
Right?
32:34
And who has the strongest voice at the table?
32:36
If you're in the sea suite, and you don't have a strong voice for the brand,
32:41
if you don't have a strong voice for design,
32:43
if you don't have a strong voice, even for like ethicists and poets.
32:48
When you think about some of these tech companies right now who talk about
32:52
they've got like, oh, they're chief ethicists.
32:55
But they're not the ones who have the power.
32:58
They're just writing papers and creating, you know,
33:01
the cover that they've talked to somebody.
33:04
But if you have a board of directors or you have a sea suite that has people
33:08
who are relentlessly or ruthlessly focused on this story and this authenticity,
33:15
that has enough power to make that happen,
33:19
then you'd think that you would get brands that would grow in smart ways,
33:24
like the brands that we all have.
33:25
They'd be incentive.
33:26
Yeah, they'd be incentive.
33:27
And there'd be almost like checks and balances.
33:30
Because I think right now there's no checks and balances.
33:32
It's just shareholder return and grow.
33:35
So we all make money and pay to see like a judge in the back.
33:39
Nope, that's off brand.
33:41
Yeah.
33:42
Do you know where that judge is right now or the judge is becoming?
33:47
Oh, I don't, maybe it's a new job opportunity.
33:49
Yeah.
33:50
And we can't talk about influencers about bringing up AI
33:53
because people are using AI to be the judge and jury
33:57
of what is on brand and not honest.
33:59
Are you serious?
34:00
Oh, they create.
34:01
And it's not, I don't know that it's a negative thing
34:03
because I think when you're running a large company
34:06
and you have a lot of people trying to talk and share on your behalf,
34:10
you start to like find people putting their own spin on something
34:14
and it gets you into trouble.
34:15
So out of the fear, which is not a great place to come from,
34:18
but out of this place of trying to survive and stay outside of court
34:23
or whatever other hot water they get into,
34:25
they create AI that the employee can type in what they want to say
34:30
and it spits out the language.
34:31
And thus began the end of the universe.
34:33
Exactly.
34:34
Imagine how this works.
34:35
I find it funny that you said that people are trying to avoid
34:38
copying other people because isn't that what art is built off of
34:42
is you're taking from other people with.
34:45
So why do we need something to think outside the box for us
34:48
when we can use our resources and then maybe build something?
34:51
Have you ever read still like an artist?
34:53
No, but I should.
34:54
I've heard of that book.
34:55
It's only like this little tiny book and it is an incredible book.
34:59
And I agree with you.
35:00
And I used to tell when I would do talks with students,
35:03
I would say my process is this.
35:06
I copy something directly.
35:08
Like I literally take something and I copy it.
35:11
And it doesn't work for what I'm doing.
35:13
Right.
35:14
I don't know if it ever worked.
35:16
And copy one thing over.
35:17
You're like, I don't know.
35:18
This is different information.
35:19
Different pictures.
35:20
Doesn't look right.
35:21
Okay, I got to look for something else.
35:22
And then I find some, oh, yes, that's awesome.
35:24
So I copy that.
35:25
But I blend it with the one before.
35:26
Exactly.
35:27
And then I copy another thing.
35:28
And by the time it works, it's like ten inspirations copied
35:31
into this fusion of creativity.
35:33
Yeah.
35:34
And that is the way it worked in the old days.
35:36
Like, like artists would have apprentices.
35:39
And they would paint their master's paintings.
35:41
Exactly the way.
35:42
It should be so cool if influencers had apprentices.
35:45
And then we would just have this whole.
35:48
Oh, I see.
35:49
I'm a teacher apprentice.
35:51
Oh, okay.
35:53
You just have to have a lonely bag.
35:57
It's so crazy, though, because like the one thing that we know
36:00
that AI doesn't have is taste.
36:03
Right.
36:04
And that's the thing that's getting left out of this conversation.
36:06
That's the thing that businesses don't understand about.
36:08
What if you could be taught taste?
36:10
It can't.
36:11
I don't think that it can.
36:12
What I'm wondering if what you're wanting to say is,
36:14
because I think taste was the word I used.
36:16
But when we were talking to our good friend, he said,
36:20
AI doesn't share trauma.
36:23
Yeah.
36:24
It has no pain.
36:25
And pain is where we get a lot of our inspiration.
36:27
Right.
36:28
That tastes the way we experience in the world
36:31
and the way that we want to communicate what we're experiencing
36:33
is through our trauma.
36:35
Yeah.
36:36
Or shared pain.
36:37
It doesn't have it.
36:38
That's where we stand apart.
36:39
Right.
36:40
Yeah.
36:41
They can't feel.
36:42
I just say, yeah.
36:43
And I'll share that his name is Force Young.
36:44
If you want to look Force Young up, he's incredible,
36:46
has some insane advice.
36:48
But that bit of insight shows you how, and I think this is important,
36:53
shows you how you are different and better than AI.
36:58
AI can outdo us on a lot of things,
37:00
but it never can share in our experience and our trauma.
37:03
Yeah.
37:04
And it doesn't have a soul.
37:05
Right.
37:06
And that is what our soul is made of.
37:08
Our soul is the thing that keeps us authentic.
37:11
It's the thing that it's our anchor.
37:13
Right.
37:14
So imagine an influencer who is influencing out of this connection,
37:19
this some kind of pain that they are trying to relieve in others.
37:22
You know, instead of this weird, constructed, fabricated thing
37:27
that's like, by this, you'll feel better about life if you buy this.
37:30
Saying, you know, I've been through some pain
37:33
and I use this thing and it really helped me.
37:36
Or I read this book and it really helped me.
37:38
It's like that influencer I have no problems with.
37:40
Right.
37:41
But at that point, are they an influencer?
37:43
I don't know.
37:44
But I guess the definition, what is the definition?
37:46
Yeah, because if that person is saying,
37:48
I had some pain and this really helped me,
37:51
can you trust them because they're getting as an influencer?
37:53
They're getting paid to tell you that this book or this bomb
37:57
or whatever it is.
37:58
That would be the point of an influencer's to influence you to buy things
38:01
or interact or any sort of thing.
38:03
I do think that is where an important factor here.
38:06
That's it.
38:07
I think influencers fall off in the fact that they,
38:10
you know that they're trying to sell you something
38:12
and I have an overactive bullshit meter
38:16
when it comes to somebody trying to sell me something.
38:18
As soon as I start talking,
38:20
if I detect that this is going,
38:22
even if they start telling something authentic story,
38:25
I'm like, I'm out of here.
38:27
And I'm just seeing Will's edit right now,
38:29
overactive bullshit detector.
38:32
Because I don't like to be sold to.
38:36
And I don't think most people do.
38:38
And I think there's some people that are so grown out
38:43
because everybody online is trying to sell you something.
38:46
Yeah.
38:47
You start listening to someone talking about some really authentic experience.
38:50
You're like, oh, that's cool.
38:51
I feel that.
38:52
And then they're like, and you know what helped me.
38:54
I'm out of here.
38:55
You know.
38:56
We've built a world that's how you survive.
38:59
Yeah.
39:00
We've built a world where everything is commodified.
39:02
And everything is content.
39:04
Yeah.
39:05
And everything is content.
39:06
So you are literally selling everything.
39:07
Even we talked to our kids and we're like,
39:08
you should turn that into a business.
39:09
They're just doing something fun.
39:10
Like, right, right.
39:11
Making little drawings.
39:12
You should make shit business.
39:13
Yeah.
39:14
You should sell these and make a career.
39:15
They're like, no.
39:16
Okay.
39:17
So this might be getting to down into the weeds.
39:19
But my niece was going to a school
39:23
that I will not name in the Northeast.
39:26
And their whole thing was about being a school that teaches you practical skills
39:31
for the work horse.
39:33
Even though it was a liberal arts college,
39:36
and they all had to have like businesses.
39:39
And they're 20 years old.
39:41
And she was getting stressed out because like,
39:43
she didn't have the successful business.
39:45
And I'm like, why does everything have to be a whole business?
39:48
Have you not just go and learn how to learn,
39:51
read some great literature, take an anthropology class?
39:54
I'm what you love.
39:55
I'm what you really naturally are drawing to.
39:57
Right.
39:58
Absolutely.
39:59
Right.
40:00
I agree.
40:01
And I don't know where we started thinking everyone had to have their own business.
40:05
Yeah.
40:06
Because that is an insane amount of pressure.
40:08
And I know that for, you know, we're speaking now having experienced all this.
40:13
But it is, there is a freedom there.
40:15
But I think it's also a lot of pressure.
40:17
So much pressure.
40:18
We have a world to go into and learn under like a princess.
40:22
Everybody wants to be a business owner.
40:24
Right.
40:25
So why would we force them down that path?
40:27
That's just insane.
40:28
Yeah.
40:29
How are you feeling about entering the workforce at this moment?
40:32
Yeah.
40:33
That is a really good question.
40:35
I feel good about entering the workforce,
40:38
but it's more about a response.
40:40
I haven't gotten very many responses.
40:42
I feel like applying is like just dead.
40:45
Yes, it's a black hole.
40:46
It's like scrolling on LinkedIn and just never ending.
40:49
Yeah.
40:50
And applying.
40:51
And applying.
40:52
And you know, I've even reached out to like some HR specialist and whatever whoever's posted the job posting.
40:57
And it's still like a black hole.
41:00
Like I just hear nothing.
41:01
So it's worrying to some degrees like the hustle culture and like,
41:06
I don't want to work my ass off just to go die at whatever old age.
41:10
Right.
41:12
Like I want to have fun in my life and my career.
41:14
And I know I'll get to that.
41:15
And I'm fine with working now.
41:17
But, you know, I mean, it's you can do both.
41:19
Yeah.
41:20
Oh my god.
41:21
No.
41:22
You could work and have fun.
41:24
That's right.
41:25
Yeah.
41:26
Like that's dying.
41:27
Yeah.
41:28
No, I want to ask you a question.
41:29
Yeah.
41:30
Of course.
41:31
Is there anything that you have felt like you should do in the past couple weeks?
41:35
That was scary to you and that you didn't do because it was scary.
41:39
Like a job related or just anything.
41:41
Anything in your life.
41:42
Like something you're like, how should you do that?
41:44
No, that's too scary.
41:45
Hmm.
41:46
Well, I mean, I've had quite some changes.
41:49
I just moved out of my parents house.
41:51
That's huge.
41:52
You did the thing.
41:53
Thank you.
41:54
Yes.
41:55
I mean, I think honestly it's still in the job topic.
41:58
But I just like don't want to apply anymore because of the black hole.
42:02
So like sometimes some days I'll be like, oh, I can really sit down and like,
42:05
hit like a few jobs.
42:06
And I just don't want to because it's just, uh, what's the word I'm looking for?
42:11
It's like, uh, you're getting burned out.
42:13
It's like burning out burning out burn out.
42:15
Yeah.
42:16
Yeah.
42:17
Yeah.
42:18
Great words.
42:19
Right.
42:20
They feel like no one is out there.
42:21
Right.
42:22
Exactly.
42:23
No one's giving me feedback.
42:24
Yes.
42:25
Exactly.
42:26
Yeah.
42:27
That also is, I think, a nature of, or a direct result of our world becoming overly virtualized.
42:32
Like we have become so used to like doing everything in this digital world that we forget
42:39
how to like be human.
42:41
Yeah.
42:42
Like somebody takes the time to apply for a job.
42:45
Like at the very least send them a response and say, hey, got your resume, got your portfolio,
42:51
we'll be in touch.
42:52
Hey, we ended up going a different way, but things again for a reply.
42:56
It's just like cricket.
42:58
I just think, I think it's over simplifying it because everyone is inundated with emails.
43:03
Everyone is in, and this could go back to the sales thing.
43:05
A bunch of scam calls.
43:06
I mean, even worse than now, you can automate those things.
43:10
Yeah.
43:11
You can do a really like personalized message that feels authentic.
43:14
That would be better than like nothing.
43:16
What is anybody even looking?
43:17
Right.
43:18
Or are they even seeing it?
43:19
Or are they even seeing it?
43:20
Or are they even seeing it?
43:21
Or are they even seeing it?
43:22
Or are they even seeing it?
43:23
Or are they even seeing it?
43:24
Or are they even seeing it?
43:25
Or are they even seeing it?
43:26
Yeah.
43:27
And that's just active they are.
43:29
That's like having to look at your profile and see if you have any posts or any following
43:33
because they want people that are getting action.
43:36
Which is also at a good point.
43:38
They want people that have influence.
43:39
Exactly.
43:40
When I was making music to get a record label, you had to actually be a successful band already.
43:45
That's just like right.
43:47
Right when you need a record deal.
43:49
Yeah.
43:50
The record label is supposed to make you a successful band.
43:52
Yeah, and it's the same thing now with.
43:53
We're already successful.
43:54
or are they successful?
43:55
Is it, or unless you know somebody,
43:57
like this is the world that we're in now,
43:59
where it's nepotism or influencer.
44:01
Now, where are we creating a world
44:03
that we don't wanna live in?
44:05
Right, don't ask that question.
44:06
Every guest can just have the whole thing here.
44:09
Right, right.
44:10
It's like as consumers and as creators,
44:13
and as business people,
44:15
we in some ways have a choice in the businesses
44:19
that we work for, have a choice.
44:20
And it seems like we're all going along
44:22
on this trail towards something that's not serving.
44:25
A cliff, that's not desirable.
44:27
Right. Yeah.
44:28
Like, lemons.
44:29
I think this is one thing.
44:31
One thing I was gonna say about the job is,
44:32
I feel like I have to be like this influencer,
44:35
this big like star artist.
44:38
And like sometimes I just feel like me being like
44:41
from small town Asheville,
44:43
and even just applying to other places in Asheville,
44:44
like doesn't compete with like,
44:46
maybe someone who went to like Juilliard
44:48
or like, Rizdi or whatever.
44:50
And like, I think that that's also like a point
44:52
to influencers is like,
44:54
if influencers can do something really well,
44:56
that's great, but they're one in a million.
44:59
So like to find realistic work,
45:01
your expectations have to be higher or lower based off of that.
45:04
So I think that kind of contributes to the black hole a little bit.
45:07
I had a good friend who's passed away now,
45:09
but he taught me about community.
45:12
And community is built on spheres of influence
45:15
that you're in the middle, imagine yourself in the middle,
45:17
and there's spheres of influence around you.
45:20
Imagine three rings going out.
45:22
The middle ring are people that are really close to you
45:23
that you speak to on a weekly basis.
45:26
The second ring is like monthly or a couple times a year.
45:30
And the third one is very rarely,
45:33
every couple of years you'll talk to them.
45:35
If you map out who's connected to you,
45:37
naturally, not online, not with some bullshit link
45:40
to algorithm, map out who's connected to you,
45:43
and then make a vision for yourself
45:46
about who you want to be more connected to.
45:49
Like the way you're here today,
45:51
how did you get here today?
45:52
Oh, through Dylan, Dylan.
45:53
Dylan, how did Dylan get to you?
45:55
Oh, through AIGA.
45:56
Right.
45:57
So you see how that warps past through.
46:00
So now you're speaking to two, three successful career creatives.
46:05
You're at the table sitting here with us through your network.
46:09
That is going to be way more effective
46:10
than trying to just like throw stuff out into it.
46:14
I really think it is a black hole.
46:15
I don't think you're...
46:17
I don't think you are experiencing something
46:18
that's because of you.
46:19
I think you're at what the system is.
46:21
It's a black hole, yeah.
46:22
So if you see someone like Dylan is a part of probably
46:25
your inner ring or maybe your second ring.
46:27
Sure him.
46:28
So if you sit put Dylan on that ring
46:29
and start to map out other people
46:31
that you're like, they're important to me.
46:33
Even the one that you've spoken to,
46:35
maybe you had one opportunity to speak
46:36
with someone that's popular or famous.
46:38
Like I remember the first time I met Michael Bayrute
46:40
and I met the favorite designers.
46:42
And I had pizza with him because this guy who's teaching them
46:44
is bullying him, introduced me to him.
46:47
And I hugged him.
46:48
It was weird.
46:49
I met him and I could do anything.
46:50
I could do anything but hugged him.
46:52
And I was like, later I texted him.
46:54
He called security.
46:56
I was like, sorry about the hug.
46:58
And he said, no, hugs are good.
46:59
And that made a big impact on me.
47:01
Yeah.
47:02
And so when you map that out and you say,
47:05
you know what, that person,
47:06
I really want to know that person more.
47:09
How can I bring them closer into my network?
47:12
Yeah.
47:12
And it's not network like aching network,
47:14
like I'm going networking thing
47:15
and give my business card out.
47:16
It's literally like you have a friend
47:18
community network around you that you're not acknowledging
47:22
because social media has put this thing in your face
47:23
like you need to advertise here.
47:26
But what's happening is we're realizing
47:28
with this black hole that we've created
47:30
that we can't really rely on it.
47:32
It is a place where we can mass communicate
47:34
and kind of mess around but to make a difference,
47:37
to grow and to go somewhere in your life,
47:40
you're going to have to figure out who the network is
47:42
that values you.
47:44
Right.
47:44
That's the point.
47:46
We value you because Dylan valued you
47:48
because you guys met at AIGA.
47:50
There's a string of value that threads through all of this.
47:54
Yeah.
47:55
And that is so good.
47:56
Yeah.
47:56
You're here in this conversation
47:58
because of that network.
47:59
So I think that's a very important thing to put your time
48:02
into versus these billionaires running these networks.
48:05
They don't want you to find a job
48:06
because then, I mean, maybe they do.
48:08
I'm not going to say that.
48:09
I'm not going to say that.
48:09
But they don't, they want you online striving
48:13
and trying to make it.
48:14
Yeah, they're not thinking about you.
48:15
Yeah, they just want not to say anything.
48:17
You're not invested in your success.
48:19
They want you to sign up for the pro account
48:21
where you get to see who's looking at your profile.
48:23
And you get to sleuth and try and get your way in.
48:26
But most big projects come because someone knew you.
48:29
And the truth is that people want to help people.
48:32
Like when you make a one-on-one connection with somebody,
48:35
like I probably talk to somebody every single month
48:38
that has reached out to me and said,
48:40
like, hey, can I grab a little bit of your time?
48:43
Often I talk to people who graduate from the same college
48:45
as me.
48:46
Yesterday, I had coffee with somebody who I didn't meet at TEDx,
48:49
but who had just reached out and said,
48:50
I had an idea that's kind of similar to yours.
48:53
Can I talk to you about it?
48:54
Oh, I love that.
48:54
And we had the best conversation.
48:56
And I wound up giving her some thoughts and advice
49:00
that she really liked.
49:01
And now we might be buds.
49:04
But in that made me feel good because I was able to help
49:07
somebody out.
49:08
And I think people genuinely want to help people.
49:12
I think so too.
49:13
I think it was.
49:14
Influences are missing.
49:15
They're missing that human connection.
49:16
Yeah.
49:17
And I think it does ostracize them and silo them off
49:21
into their own fake world.
49:23
And maybe it's more misery than it is.
49:25
I do have a good friend that lives in Nashville
49:26
and she used to post things on Instagram
49:29
and got really super popular, just blew up.
49:33
And now she's not.
49:34
She quit.
49:35
And I was like, why did you quit?
49:36
You were doing so well.
49:38
And she said because it felt like everyone knew her,
49:40
but no one knew her.
49:42
Oh, yeah.
49:43
People would walk up to her.
49:44
She's going to the matter.
49:48
And she felt strangled by it.
49:51
She couldn't go anywhere where she really knew someone.
49:54
But they all acted like they knew her.
49:56
Like people just walked up to her.
49:57
Like they knew her comfortable.
49:58
Yeah, so I do think that it's stalker.
50:01
Right, and yeah, that's no good.
50:04
That's not good.
50:05
I used to write a restaurant review blog
50:08
like way back in the day.
50:11
And this is not, in any way, an influencer,
50:13
an influencer.
50:14
Oh, that influencer.
50:16
And then an influencer.
50:18
Influencial, but what I wound up giving it up
50:22
because it felt like I couldn't enjoy food anymore
50:26
because everything became my work.
50:29
And everything became easy.
50:30
Recording it and talking about it.
50:33
I had to analyze this meal and have something clever to say.
50:36
And I was like, I got into this because I loved going out to eat.
50:42
But now it's not fun anymore.
50:44
And so I don't want to do it anymore.
50:46
I just left my job.
50:47
I was a line cook for four years at a country club.
50:50
Yes, I made fancy food.
50:52
But that's how I felt leaving.
50:54
I was like, I'm so burnt out.
50:56
Like I'd love this as a side gig and like doing it through college.
50:59
But yeah, you just get burnt out and tired.
51:03
And no, I kind of worry sometimes
51:05
that if I do anything, if I put myself into something really intensely,
51:08
then I'm going to get this experience and then be attached to it and known for it
51:12
and then not be able to change it.
51:14
But that's true.
51:15
I think you can change.
51:16
Yeah, you can change your career.
51:18
Yeah.
51:18
It's not easy.
51:19
It's easy.
51:21
What are you going to do at this university?
51:23
I forgot to say that Jen is previously at IDO.
51:26
I was at IDO, and now I'm kind of working on my own.
51:30
I had a small consultancy for a couple of years.
51:33
Now I'm on my own and then also founding knitted as you mentioned before.
51:37
That's awesome.
51:38
Yeah.
51:39
What in the university class that you're going to be teaching?
51:42
Not teaching at a university class.
51:43
I mean, the idea of IDO university?
51:45
Oh, IDO you.
51:46
Yeah.
51:46
So that's a continuing thing that started when I was at IDO.
51:51
It's a storytelling class.
51:52
Were you part of the creation?
51:54
Because I remember when IDO launched there.
51:55
Yeah.
51:56
It was one of the first classes that got created,
51:59
because it was such a huge need for people to tell better stories.
52:03
Mostly it works.
52:04
So we're usually it's like sort of a professional development thing.
52:07
And I was really interesting process, because I had to break down
52:12
what I know how to do, not like, oh, I'm so great.
52:16
But I know how to do it naturally.
52:18
I had to break down my process and then teach people
52:21
who that doesn't come to you naturally, how to do it.
52:25
And that was a really interesting process in and of itself.
52:29
And so that it could be replicated.
52:31
And now I'll go to sit down and create something.
52:34
And I'll do the thing that I taught other people to do
52:38
that I never used to do on my own.
52:40
I'm like, I'll actually would be really helpful if I did this thing.
52:43
And it helps me out.
52:44
So IDO, we filmed that now 10 years ago.
52:50
And they're still, they run it.
52:52
It's video.
52:52
And then they have live community that works with that.
52:56
So absolutely.
52:57
But if you want to learn storytelling,
52:58
you can also just reach out to me directly.
53:00
And then I'll get paid for it.
53:03
I like that route.
53:04
But do you feel like the influence of storytelling
53:06
is demeaning its power or its effectiveness,
53:10
or maybe it's sentiment?
53:12
It's one of those things that's now
53:14
trended so hard that everyone's
53:16
doing story teller and story teller.
53:19
Everyone's a storyteller online now.
53:20
And it goes to a place where, again, is it authentic?
53:25
Is this person really a storyteller?
53:26
Or are they saying that because that's kind of the thing to say?
53:28
And I started to say, like, he did this whole thing
53:31
about like how awful the word storyteller was.
53:33
Because you build a roller coaster, not a storyteller, like.
53:39
I don't tell stories to this roller coaster.
53:41
They're ups and downs to life.
53:43
So did you turn?
53:45
I'm with two lines about it.
53:46
Because I do think people get really stuck in their heads.
53:49
We are all storytellers.
53:51
We go out to dinner and we sit down at dinner
53:54
and we're like, oh my god, you're not going to believe what
53:56
happened on the way to work today.
53:58
And we tell a story without any problem at all.
54:01
So people are good at it and some people are less good at it.
54:03
But everybody can do it.
54:05
Then in a professional context, you sit down
54:08
and it's like the tyranny of the blank page on your screen
54:12
and you just people freeze up.
54:14
And it's really, really hard for people to do it.
54:16
So I think unlocking people to say everybody's a storyteller
54:20
is a good thing.
54:21
It doesn't mean everybody is talented.
54:24
It's good at it.
54:25
And that's the thing I think where it gets really tricky,
54:29
bringing it back to AI, bringing it back
54:32
to some of these tools where you're like,
54:33
oh, everybody's a storyteller because you can just
54:35
put it into chat TPP and you get a story.
54:37
It's like, well, you get a story.
54:39
It doesn't mean that it's good.
54:41
It doesn't mean that it's good.
54:42
And so the missing piece of taste, judgment, editorial capacity,
54:48
knowing what the important main points are,
54:52
knowing how to have a single main idea
54:54
and execute on that, those are really human things
54:58
that are skills that you have to practice over a lifetime.
55:02
I would even say is when you were saying earlier
55:04
that you were part of your creative process
55:07
is finding something and copying it
55:09
and then finding something else and copying it
55:11
and emerging the two.
55:12
But also the human element there is you
55:15
knowing whether this was good or not.
55:17
And that's the thing that I don't think AI can do.
55:20
AI will, you're like, hey, I want something like this
55:22
or whatever, it'll take all those things
55:24
and slap it together.
55:26
And like, here you go.
55:27
Except you were looking at and going, that's not good.
55:31
I would say from a personal perspective,
55:32
and I want to speak for anyone who's using AI
55:35
or have tried to use AI to write emails and messages
55:38
because I think there is a fear
55:40
that you're going to say something the wrong way
55:43
or not be clear.
55:45
And when I first started using AI,
55:48
I was using it to write my emails.
55:49
I'm like, oh, this thing writes, we better than me.
55:51
That's what I thought.
55:52
I like this.
55:53
That's awesome.
55:54
I sound like I'm like best writer CEO ever.
55:56
And I used it for a while.
55:59
And then I worked with this guy
56:02
and he was sending these emails
56:04
and they were so well written.
56:07
And at first I didn't get it.
56:08
I didn't like put it together.
56:09
And I was like, man, this guy's like, it's good with words.
56:12
I don't know why I didn't like put this together first,
56:14
but then I was like, this guy's using AI on me.
56:18
And I felt like a little bit excited by I'm like,
56:21
I was like, we're like, we know each other.
56:23
Why are you using AI on me?
56:25
And that's a funny way to put it.
56:26
Might be a verb.
56:27
I'm using AI on me.
56:29
I got AI.
56:31
And so I started not using AI.
56:33
And I'll say this for you as you're coming into your career
56:35
and as you're trying to put yourself out there,
56:38
that who you are and how you communicate
56:41
is part of you, your rhythm.
56:44
Part of your authenticity.
56:45
Part of people getting to know you,
56:47
I think that there are times
56:49
when you can make an email clearer
56:51
if you've got like 15 points
56:52
and you need them to be organized.
56:54
Hey, I can help you with that.
56:55
But the thing about relationship,
56:58
which is how we get work,
56:59
which is how we move through the world,
57:01
is you can't build a relationship
57:02
behind something writing and being trying to be you.
57:06
But the consequence right now,
57:07
and I'll say this at the same time,
57:08
the consequence of saying the wrong thing,
57:10
is still intense right now.
57:12
Like if you go on LinkedIn,
57:14
and you're trying to be your authentic self,
57:16
and you say something like,
57:17
I think influencers are geeky.
57:20
And a bunch of influencers jump on board
57:22
and they're like,
57:23
this person has no idea what she's talking about.
57:23
She's an idiot.
57:24
Cancellant.
57:25
Consequence.
57:26
Consequence of that opinion and that thing is great.
57:31
So there is this decision we have to make
57:35
as to whether or not the consequence
57:37
is equal to the truth.
57:39
I think there's a balance.
57:41
I think you ultimately,
57:43
and this is what I would say to you, Camille,
57:45
is right, using your own voice.
57:47
Just do the thing.
57:48
And if you're gonna use AI,
57:50
use it to say,
57:51
hey, check this out.
57:53
Is there anything here you point out?
57:54
And you can take or leave what it gives you,
57:56
but you are starting with your own authentic voice.
57:58
Wait, you were to write,
57:59
let me push back on that.
58:00
If you were to write to me,
58:01
knowing me, like after this.
58:03
Sure.
58:04
And you were to write to me in AI.
58:07
I would not know where you are in your journey.
58:10
Oh, and that's what I mean.
58:11
I would not know you're facing.
58:12
I wouldn't know you're blaming me.
58:13
You're getting to know AI.
58:15
If you talk to me in the way you talk to me,
58:17
I would know where you are and how I can connect with you.
58:20
Yeah.
58:21
If you come at me and you're speaking
58:23
in AI CEO language or AI creative,
58:27
you're a creative writer with 15 plus years experience,
58:30
and you know how to get jobs with agency owners,
58:33
and then you write me that email,
58:35
I'm not gonna have a clue as to how you fit in.
58:37
Yeah.
58:38
I know.
58:39
I know you.
58:40
I'll hear some weird bullshit
58:41
pulls from generic sources,
58:43
but if you reach out to me,
58:45
and you're like, am Camille,
58:47
I would love to have a meeting,
58:49
and even if there's even if there's awkwardness
58:52
or weirdness, I know that this person is this person.
58:57
It's real.
58:58
And there's real.
59:00
It's real and it's her voice.
59:02
Like you know that there's some continuity
59:04
between what you hear when you talk to her
59:06
versus what she's writing.
59:07
Right.
59:08
So there's continuity there when you finally meet them,
59:10
but you also have grace and warmth in that community.
59:13
Versus trying to put something out to someone
59:15
you've never met.
59:16
Yeah.
59:17
So I'm saying that that's where I think AI is confusing us
59:21
because warm invite versus a cold invite, definitely.
59:24
And people think, well, if I just write the perfect email,
59:26
I'll get the job,
59:26
but you don't realize that you're gonna have to go through
59:28
levels of interviews and relationship building
59:32
that will unravel the thing that AI tried to make so easy,
59:35
and your ideas are so great,
59:36
and it makes this flattery happen
59:38
that confuses us about where we are.
59:40
Yeah.
59:41
So if back to that network thing,
59:43
if you figure that out, if we all figure that out,
59:45
because I forget that we can choose who we want to be connected to.
59:49
You know, it doesn't have to be like
59:50
some kind of like a star has fallen
59:52
and now we're connected to this person.
59:54
But you can like say, I know this person,
59:56
I want to connect to that more.
59:57
I'm gonna call them and say they want to be profy
59:59
or I want to like go to a show that they're doing.
1:00:01
No, they're real you.
1:00:02
Like people like us who are industry creatives
1:00:04
who have been in this for so long,
1:00:06
people know our voice, people know.
1:00:07
And so we can't just start using AI
1:00:09
to talk to do our billing like.
1:00:12
Yeah, and now like with with kids,
1:00:14
I was three kids, Regia's four kids,
1:00:17
and I have a dog.
1:00:18
I'm a child of four kids, so.
1:00:20
You're a child of four.
1:00:21
I'm a child of four.
1:00:22
So when you have kids that grow up in an at time,
1:00:24
when everything you do can get permanently recorded.
1:00:28
Yes.
1:00:29
That is a scary place because there's no grace
1:00:32
for them to be stupid.
1:00:33
Yeah.
1:00:34
You're all stupid.
1:00:35
We've all been stupid.
1:00:36
Oh yeah.
1:00:37
Just instant.
1:00:38
We could do it.
1:00:39
Doovers and people forgot about it a week later.
1:00:42
I did wrong things, but it lives forever.
1:00:44
Yeah.
1:00:44
There's a whole right of my stupidity hidden somewhere.
1:00:47
Right, right, that's fantastic.
1:00:49
But you'll never find it, but it's not a world.
1:00:51
Oh my god.
1:00:52
Right, so they're in this fear right now.
1:00:55
This consequence that it makes it scary
1:00:58
to experience your wildness.
1:01:02
Yeah.
1:01:02
On the topic of influencers,
1:01:04
I think those like simple mistakes
1:01:06
that are so scary to make,
1:01:07
that's exactly why cancel culture is a thing.
1:01:09
Like someone makes arguably a simple mistake
1:01:12
or maybe they're really out, outrageous or whatever,
1:01:15
but why should a simple mistake warrant cancellation
1:01:18
if we're all human?
1:01:19
If we're all human.
1:01:20
I think it's what you're saying.
1:01:21
And why should this person now be ousted forever
1:01:24
if you're speaking and you make a mistake
1:01:26
within your community?
1:01:27
You're, it's very rare you're gonna get canceled.
1:01:29
Exactly.
1:01:30
The more they like talk to you and like,
1:01:32
really fucked up.
1:01:33
Yeah, yeah.
1:01:34
And you're like, I'm sorry.
1:01:35
I did.
1:01:36
You get to explain like, you know what?
1:01:37
I wasn't thinking a how to bad day.
1:01:39
This guy cut me off in traffic and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
1:01:42
And then you land there, but you don't get that grace.
1:01:45
We got that grace growing up,
1:01:47
but you don't get that grace now.
1:01:49
We need to provide it.
1:01:50
It's like this is the thing that gets snapshot it
1:01:52
and sent around the world.
1:01:53
And everybody's seeing these four seconds of your accident.
1:01:57
And they're gonna judge you by that.
1:01:59
You're gonna be that for the rest of your life.
1:02:00
Without any context.
1:02:02
And that's it.
1:02:02
Oh yeah.
1:02:03
It's so it's on something like what if challenging?
1:02:05
We turn away from the influence,
1:02:10
the influencer world or ourself.
1:02:13
And this is getting too complicated.
1:02:15
What if we focus on our influence
1:02:18
within our warm network?
1:02:20
What if that was where we influence
1:02:22
and are influenced?
1:02:24
Yeah.
1:02:25
I like that.
1:02:26
I like that.
1:02:26
It doesn't have to be about the black hole
1:02:27
because that's like a room of mirrors and weird funny.
1:02:30
And we're so bad at nurturing our warm networks.
1:02:35
When I say we, I don't necessarily mean the amazing people
1:02:37
in this room, but I struggle with it too.
1:02:41
That was my struggle for the first five years
1:02:44
of moving to Asheville.
1:02:45
Was this fear of how do I meet the people
1:02:49
who are gonna be my people?
1:02:51
How do I, how do you make friends?
1:02:54
How do you make those connections?
1:02:56
Because we're stuck in our little do-do-do-do-do.
1:02:59
It's so much easier to be like, you know what?
1:03:02
I'm just gonna go watch some Netflix.
1:03:03
Then it is to invest in those times.
1:03:07
It might be awkward that might,
1:03:10
you might make a mistake like all of those things.
1:03:12
We have to retrain ourselves to, yeah,
1:03:16
to put ourselves out there to say yes to an invitation
1:03:19
to make an invitation.
1:03:21
That's so hard for people.
1:03:22
It's a muscle you have to build.
1:03:24
And I was on the drive here this morning
1:03:26
and I was nervous because this is nerve-wracking sometimes.
1:03:29
And so I'm like getting all in my head
1:03:31
and I'm listening to, what's that?
1:03:34
The song from ACDC, that's an Iron Man, what's it called?
1:03:39
Oh, son loves it.
1:03:40
I heard that song because my son and I just watch Iron Man.
1:03:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:03:45
Anyway, I'm listening to a song,
1:03:48
like pepping myself up.
1:03:49
I can't think of it.
1:03:52
I cannot.
1:03:52
All right, I'll have to get Will to put it over my face
1:03:55
when I, this is edited.
1:03:57
Anyway, I'm listening to a song and I'm,
1:03:59
and I turn on this road.
1:04:01
I'm dropped my kid off at preschool
1:04:03
and I turn on this road and it's someone I know and his kid.
1:04:06
And I'm like, ah, I'm not in the mindset to talk to this guy
1:04:10
because like, is it awkward?
1:04:11
And I'm just like, I'm feeling nervous.
1:04:13
I'm really in a different space.
1:04:14
So I almost reversed in the road to not run by this guy.
1:04:20
But I was like, stupid.
1:04:23
I'm like so lame.
1:04:24
So I just drove up to them, rolled on my window
1:04:27
and had this fun little interaction with him and his son
1:04:30
and after I felt pumped.
1:04:33
What did I drive through?
1:04:33
You may drive up line at school, right?
1:04:36
Right, I was at the line at school.
1:04:37
But then I was in the reverse of the tree.
1:04:38
No, no, not there.
1:04:39
Sorry, I was already outside of the school.
1:04:41
I was at the open doughnut and I was just like,
1:04:44
I was like, I am not going through with this.
1:04:46
No, I was already out of the school
1:04:48
and going down the road coming here.
1:04:49
Okay.
1:04:50
And they were walking down the road
1:04:51
because their, their, their, their daughter goes to the school
1:04:54
for a guy street.
1:04:54
That one is interesting.
1:04:55
I was like, yeah, I don't want to have this interaction right now.
1:04:57
And then, and then I had this feeling like you're saying,
1:04:59
like, why do we avoid these?
1:05:01
Yeah.
1:05:02
I think they're almost divine in a way.
1:05:04
They're like a spark of the moment.
1:05:07
Like life gives you this little thing that's scary
1:05:09
and it says face this moment.
1:05:11
Yeah.
1:05:12
And then you like,
1:05:13
It's an irrational fear.
1:05:14
If there's no logical reason for you
1:05:15
that like a murder or a drug would just go, yeah.
1:05:18
Like this guy threatened your life or something
1:05:20
and I'm like, how are you I'm reversing?
1:05:22
It's not a dangerous situation.
1:05:24
But I walked, I drove up to them, rolled on my window,
1:05:27
had this fun conversation
1:05:28
and I literally came here with a whole different vibe.
1:05:31
Yeah.
1:05:32
Yeah.
1:05:33
Because you leaned into it.
1:05:34
Yeah.
1:05:35
I love it.
1:05:36
Yeah.
1:05:37
The best I've advice I've gotten was when I was in high school.
1:05:38
They're playing soccer and my coach told me to be uncomfortable
1:05:40
in the uncomfortable.
1:05:41
Yeah.
1:05:42
I love that one.
1:05:43
And not practice that.
1:05:44
No, I know, not enough.
1:05:45
Yeah.
1:05:46
And that's, that's what that reminded me of.
1:05:48
What would you say any what ifs in this group?
1:05:50
I would say what if we lean into the uncomfortable?
1:05:54
What if we use our own human condition
1:05:59
and move towards the things that we find scary?
1:06:04
Because like you found out,
1:06:06
it totally changed the course of your day, did it?
1:06:09
What if we influenced towards friendship and relationship?
1:06:14
I love, here we go.
1:06:16
Yeah.
1:06:17
It's another name for what I was meaning by warm network.
1:06:19
Yeah, it's actually really friends.
1:06:21
I love it.
1:06:23
If you become the catalyst to say like,
1:06:26
I'm gonna say hi to that guy.
1:06:27
I'm gonna reach out to that person.
1:06:29
I'm gonna ask you to go get coffee with me,
1:06:33
like all of those things, like what do you use in your life?
1:06:36
Let's go get some coffee.
1:06:37
Yes.
1:06:38
Yes.
1:06:39
All right, final question for this episode.
1:06:41
What brand would you like to be an influencer for?
1:06:45
Oh, I know.
1:06:50
Banana Republic.
1:06:52
Banana Republic.
1:06:53
Yeah, baby, that's good.
1:06:56
Rivian.
1:06:57
Ooh, that's a great one.
1:06:59
That brand has me in there.
1:07:01
That's such a great brand.
1:07:02
Yes, that's such a great one.
1:07:03
Yeah, for us doing it, we were talking about,
1:07:05
he just had a brand at Rivian.
1:07:06
No way.
1:07:07
Yeah.
1:07:08
You go first because I don't know one.
1:07:11
I don't know either.
1:07:12
I think I would do something in music or like production,
1:07:15
something like that.
1:07:16
I know it's not a brand, but I can't think of it exact.
1:07:20
I'm just going to say that when they come to my mind
1:07:22
because it relates to a past story.
1:07:25
No, I'm not going to do that.
1:07:26
That was all right.
1:07:27
No, you got to tell us what it was going to be.
1:07:28
Yeah, no, it was going to be North Face.
1:07:30
Oh, North Face.
1:07:32
Yeah, but I need a car.
1:07:34
So maybe it should be something like Rivian.
1:07:36
I need a car.
1:07:38
Rivian, if you're listening.
1:07:39
Oh, no.
1:07:40
What's on your mind?
1:07:41
I'd love to have that.
1:07:42
Yeah, yeah.
1:07:43
What's another land rover?
1:07:47
Oh, no, not land rover.
1:07:48
What?
1:07:49
Oh, land rover.
1:07:49
Yeah.
1:07:50
That's a great.
1:07:51
That's a great brand.
1:07:52
I love land rover.
1:07:53
Land Cruiser, Toyota Land Cruiser.
1:07:56
All right, I'll be an influencer, Toyota Land Cruiser.
1:07:58
I'll try it on the road.
1:07:59
I can see you getting out and looking
1:08:02
stoic outside of your heart.
1:08:04
Looking out towards the mountain.
1:08:05
I'm a lawyer.
1:08:06
Yeah.
1:08:07
I don't know why.
1:08:08
This has been really fun.
1:08:10
I know, yeah.
1:08:10
There's so much for having us.
1:08:13
Yes, it's for being here.
1:08:15
Can we stay here permanently?
1:08:16
Yeah, just.
1:08:17
It's your spot.
1:08:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:08:19
It's for the rest of the day and watch you work.
1:08:21
You don't have to go into there.
1:08:22
Hang out.
1:08:23
All right, got an observation window to mind.
1:08:25
Perfect.
1:08:26
Perfect.
1:08:27
We're doing it wrong, Reggie.
1:08:30
All right, I'm going to send this off.
1:08:31
For those of you who watched all the way to this point,
1:08:33
thank you.
1:08:34
Yeah.
1:08:35
Definitely wasted a lot of time.
1:08:36
And we appreciate that.
1:08:37
It's a high value.
1:08:39
Your time.
1:08:40
Thank you for being here.
1:08:41
We appreciate you.
1:08:42
Bye-bye.
1:08:43
Bye.
1:08:45
All right, drop your money at that photo.
1:08:47
On your seat.
1:08:49
Remind me for the will.
1:08:52
Thanks for listening.
1:08:53
This podcast was created and developed by our hosts,
1:08:56
Reggie Tidwell, Tim Sprogs, Mary Green, and Dylan Garcia.
1:09:02
Very special thanks to our guest host,
1:09:04
Jen Mayer, and Camille Curl, produced by Mary Green,
1:09:08
live production and editing by me, Will Kennedy, graphic
1:09:12
design by Dylan Garcia, and set design by Megan Sprogs.
1:09:17
Today's episode is presented lovingly by 40 Harts,
1:09:21
creators of Enduring Value.