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Female Firsts: Sylvia Rideoutt Bishop · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I've never told you production if
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I heard you, and it is time for another edition
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: of Female First, which means we are once again joined
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: by the terrific, the talented Eves.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: Welcome Eves.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Hi always so happy to have you on, and as usual,
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: you have been up to all kinds of things.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: What have you been doing? Eaves?
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: So I guess we were talking a little bit before
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: the show started about I got my Wilderness First Responder
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: certification recently, and I got to spend a little time
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: in western North Carolina, which I like to go to
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: in general anyway, a beautiful place. So I got to
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: spend time there and do something that's not at all
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: related to what everybody listening knows before, which is writing
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: and history and podcasting. But if y'all have been listening
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: long enough, then y'all know that I do love outdoor stuff,
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: and I care a lot about how we relate to
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: each other in the outdoors. I care a lot about
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: black people being in the outdoors and have become more
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: and more interested in outdoor leadership in recent years, and
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: also in the ways that I can contribute to community
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: care as the world changes in so many different ways.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: But it's like one of those things where it's like
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: I can, so I will, Like I know that I am.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: I am willing to learn the skills of caring for
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: people in the wilderness if any emergency situation should happen.
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: So it's kind of like, Okay, well, if I'm willing to,
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: there are plenty of other people who aren't willing to,
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: then I will. And I know those skills are transferable
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: outside of wilderness context too, So yeah, a lot of
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: reasoning behind it, but yeah, that was that was definitely
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: a recent highlight for me.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: And we love that about you use always that kind
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: of drive to learn. It's so important and it's one
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: of the reasons that I think media like this is
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: important is that curiosity and sharing that curiosity and this
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: relates to the person you are talking about today. But
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: before we get into that, I want to ask you,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: have you ever ridden a horse?
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: Uh? Yes, but it's been like a really, really really
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: long time so when I was a child. I don't
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: remember where are when exactly, but I know that I have.
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: It's like also one of those things where it's like, oh,
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: they're horse riding, Like there are horse riding places where
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: you can do to go horse riding, if I'm if there,
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: if I'm on an excursion, if I'm somewhere, there are
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: excursions related to horse riding basically, and I usually I
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: always think about doing them, and I don't do them,
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: but I would like to some more.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: What about y'all.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: I rode a horse.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: When I was nine, and it was at a fair,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: and I swear I got chicken pox from it, but
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: I probably just got chicken pox from the fair. And
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: then there's a place near where I grew up where
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: you could ride horses and go on like trails and stuff,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: and I did that. I remember it being more painful
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: than I thought it would be, actually.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: And then some people in my family had.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Horses and I was incredibly jealous, but I never got
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: to ride write any of them.
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: So I'm just thinking, I know I'm not gonna do it.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: There's this famous story used where I was blamed for
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: killing a horse.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: I did in the back of my head.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: That's one of the first things I learned about. Oh,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I was very fascinated.
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: But all that to say, I have not ridden horses.
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: They scare the hell out of me. I'm like, they're
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: modern day dinosaurs to me, but they are like really
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: pretty to look at from Afar and I did work
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: with When I worked with children, it would do volunteer
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: and making because they were therapy horses and they were wonderful.
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: So we would come through and clean and have like
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: lessons and like people like it's one of the best
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: things to have young kids who get to try new things.
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: And being around horses with the crew that I had
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: was not something they did often, so we really were
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: excited to be able to work with them. So a
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: lot of people who care and have horses, but I
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: am actually petrified of horses because to me, they're like
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: giant animals that could just run me down and it
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: could exactly, So I'm like, no, thank you, I'm gonna
• 4:37
  Speaker 5: respect you from way far over here.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: That's smart.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: They sure a lot of horror movies.
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: They are like, would I feel like it's something that
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: maybe later down the road if the apocalypse type of
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: things happened, I need to learn to ride one, just
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: in cases. But I'm like, at the same time, like,
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: but is it worth the cost? Maybe I'll just you know,
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: lay down and give up after that, Like.
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: You know what that is so funny you said that, Samantha,
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: because I literally was talking to my husband about this
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: when we were driving somewhere and I when I passed
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: things and I'm in a romantic mood, like when I'm
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: when I'm like romance seeing the world, you know what
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, when just everything looks imagining, Yeah, everything looks wonderful.
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I want a horse, And I was thinking
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: about like how useful that skill would be in apocalypse
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: because I am I am in the process of like
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: trying to acquire apocalypse skills, which is another reason this
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: wilderness first responder thing comes in handy and why learning
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: to drive stick chef. I'm gotten a lot better at
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: it now.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I feel like I needed it.
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: Yes, And so horse horses are definitely on the list
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: because if you look at all the apocalypse stuff, it's like, Okay,
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: no fuel needed. Horses are around, They're strong, they're plentiful,
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: and you know, have been helping humans out for a
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: really long time. But yes, is it worth it? Is
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: the question, like, there's so many other things for us
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: to learn in the world, is that one of them?
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: And it's a skill I'm always impressed and seeing like
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: rodeo shows are people who actually just love horses and
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: really care and put a lot of work into training
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: themselves and horses. I feel like that's such a skill.
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: But yeah, I feel like that's something that I have bypassed,
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: Like it feels like a thing that again with all
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: the pain, I'm like, I have too many knee problems,
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: too many back problems to me like this this is
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: not for me. But I also do am glad that
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: you are taking all these classes, Eaves, because I now
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna put you on my team and like this
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: is how we survived.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, she's a part of the cry the ranks.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: First, So who are we talking about today, Eves.
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: We're talking about Sylvia ride out Bishop And I think
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: I was trying to remember when I came across her
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: because she's been on my list for a really long
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: time and I just wanted to read the book that's
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: that exist about her before I brought her, and I
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: was trying to figure out the right time and what
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: felt right. Sometimes I'm weird about who I bring ons,
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: Like I have people on the list forever and I'm
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: just like waiting for a time that feels right and
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: now just felt right, But I think it was when
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: I was like going to a national park in West Virginia.
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: I was at New River Gorge. I think this was
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: around that time, and so I was thinking about black
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: history in West Virginia, and I think that might have
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: been when I came across Sylvia write out Bishop. But
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: either way, I'm excited to talk about her today. She
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: was the first black woman who was licensed to train
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  Speaker 4: racehorses in the United States. And her history. She's from
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  Speaker 4: West Virginia. So should I get started again to our story.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do it.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Cool.
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  Speaker 4: So her parents were Bertha and James Howard ride Out.
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  Speaker 4: They got married in May of nineteen fifteen in Charlestown,
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  Speaker 4: West Virginia. She was seventeen and he was and their
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: first child, Flora Laine, was born in February of nineteen sixteen.
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: So James was drafted into the army in October in
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: nineteen seventeen, and he served as a food service cook
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: in France. But the war ended and by June of
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: nineteen nineteen, James had returned back home from France, and
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: Sylvia was born on October fifth, nineteen twenty in Charlestown,
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  Speaker 4: West Virginia. She was her parents' fourth daughter, not the last.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: They had a lot of kids.
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  Speaker 4: At first she was named Cora, and later her name
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: was changed to Sylvia Augusta write Out. Now she had
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: sixteen siblings, not all of them though lived past their
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: toddler years, but their family they grew fruits and vegetables
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: in their backyard.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: They also had hogs.
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: And chickens, and they lived in this community called Potato Hill,
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: which was on the west side of Charlestown. Now, Sylvia's
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: childhood is interesting, but like not unusual, because when she
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: was almost two years old, she went to live with
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  Speaker 4: a couple not far away, Lavina and William Payne. They
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: had a lot of children, but you know, so this
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: other family helped take care of her. They didn't have
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: any children themselves, Lavina and William didn't, but still Sylvia
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: was apparently the only one out of all of her
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: siblings who was sent to live outside of the house.
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: And Sylvia said this, She said, my mother was sick
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: and I was the baby, and the pains were very
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: good friends, so it seemed like it was a timing situation.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: They were good friends. She would take care of her.
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: They had a lot of children, and like it wasn't
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: unusual for a family with a lot of children to
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: seek help from outside the family to help them care
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: for and raise a child. But yeah, so she said
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: that in this book called Sylvia, Ride Out, Bishop Had
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: Away with Horses, that's by Vicki Moons, So you can
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: find a lot of information about Sylvia, Ride Out Bishop,
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: and about horse racing in general in that book. And
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: I just wanted to call that out up front because like,
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: a lot of the information that we'll talk about today
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: from Sylvia is from that book, and it's a pretty
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: good resource for her story, but also like horse racing
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: in general, because as a whole it's its own world,
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: there's a lot to learn about it. There's a lot
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: of history in there, and there's a lot of Black
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: history specifically there too, so that's a good resource. But anyway,
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: Sylvia was baptized from April first, nineteen twenty three, and
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: at that time the Pains were listed as sponsors and
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: as godparents to Sylvia. The Pain family, the way it's
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: described in the book, really took good care of Sylvia.
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: She got new clothes a lot, and in the winter,
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: Sylvia would go back home with her parents and siblings,
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: while the Pains went to Florida with their employers. So
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: there were some back and forth. She would go back
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: to her house with the she would be with the Pains,
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: and then she would go back to her parents, and
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: then she would be with the Pain So she went
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: back and forth. And they didn't live far from each other,
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: but it was so like they were so close and
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: they took care of her for so long that Sylvia
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: even later inherited a home from the Pains. But we'll
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: talk more about that a little bit later. But yeah,
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: on Easter Sunday in nineteen twenty nine, kind of this
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: is part of her origin story with horses, a man
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: was going from house to house selling a two minute
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: ride on his pony named Targa, which she never forgot
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: that pony's name, apparently, and that ride would be ten cents,
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: and to take a photo that would be an extra quarter.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: Please look at the photos in that book. There are
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: some photos, but there is such a cute photo of
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: her when she's young and on that horse. But it's
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: really nice to look at those photos and see how
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: clearly enthusiastic she was about it at the time. And
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: she did love that experience. She loved riding the horse,
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: and she talked about the way it smelled. And it's
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: funny because apparently the way people smell horses, they smell
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: them differently, so they have like the way they think
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: about the smell of horses people who ride them.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: It's all different.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: But I do like its smells are so often associated
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: with memories because one of those things. So it's interesting
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: that she talked about the smells. But yeah, she went
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: to the Eagle Avenue School, which was also called the
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: Charlestown District Colored School, and in December of nineteen thirty three,
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: a racetrack opened in Charlestown. It had twelve stables, forty
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: four bedding windows, and it had a heated grandstand. And
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: Sylvia began going to that racetrack. She was watching the trainer,
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: she was watching the horses, and just after she finished
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: the eighth grade, she began working at the racetrack. So
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: she starts attending Store College in Harper's Ferry when she
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: was a ninth grade student.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Because there were no high schools for.
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: Black students, and she continued living with the pains, and
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: like I said, they took care of her, so they
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: bought her car so she could drive herself to school.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: She was helped.
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: She was working in the school kitchen in the lunch
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: room as well though to help pay her tuition to
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: the school, and her classmates would sometimes ride with her
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: to the school and help her pay for gas. But
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: to earn extra money, Sylvia would walk the horses after
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: their morning workouts at the track, and during her time
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: that she worked there, she was learning more about caring
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: for horses, so she was basically learning on the job.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: But after three years at store College she had to leave.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: She had to work. She didn't graduate from there, and
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: Lavinia Payne was sick. But in October of nineteen forty
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: three she purchased two lots of land from her grandfather,
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: Charles A.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Snowden.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: The lots weren't that far from her childhood home in
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: Potato Hill, and a couple of years after that she
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: married John Bishop at St. Philip's Episcopal Church in Charlestown.
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: They got a dog, a Dalmatian named Tank and like you, Samantha,
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: not to call you out. He was afraid of the horses. Yeah,
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: he liked betting on them. But apparently, according to like
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: family members' family friends. He was pretty dang unscared of
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: the horses, but that didn't stop him from being involved
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: in the business and being married to Sylvia, who was
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: clearly very involved with horses. But yeah, so in nineteen
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: forty six, Sylvia sold the two lots that she brought
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: bought from her grand father, and John was like so,
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: although he supported Sylvia, he himself was more interested in
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: the entertainment industry. He would produce musical events, like he
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: produced one that was at what was previously John Brown's farm,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: and he was interested in like the Chitlin circuit. But
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: in nineteen forty seven, Sylvia and John bought an inn
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: near Charlestown for four thousand dollars. They didn't pay all
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: of that upfront. I think it was like two thousand
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: dollars or so. They paid upfront and then they paid
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: the rest later. But John had a night club there.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: He was involved there at night since Sylvia was doing
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: all this work during the day. And in July of
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: nineteen fifty one, Sylvia and John they drove to the
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: Cumberland Fair in Cumberland, Maryland. The fair had horse races,
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: and Sylvia's horse booth play won her race by six lengths.
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: Sylvia won six hundred and twenty five dollars and John
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: betting Man won fifty seven dollars and eighty cents. But yeah,
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: they used apparently John was a fan of Buick's. There
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: were a few Buicks in their story. Sylvia and John
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: used that money that they wanted to make a down
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: payment on a nineteen forty nine Buick and in bou
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: Plays four years of racing and thirty two races, that
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: was the only time that Boo Play won.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: But not to.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: Fret like, there were a lot of other wins in
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: Sylvia's history and all of the horses that she trained.
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: But yeah, the bishop's horses Quick News and Wise Bet
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: they won races in May of nineteen fifty three in
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: Ohio and they ended up earning the bishops after those
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: races more money in June on the Ohio circuit. So
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: there are there, I mean, so many races that Sylvia
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: did over the course of her career. It would be
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: like it would take forever to go through all of
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: them in this episode, So we're not going to do that.
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: You can go read about more of them if you're
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: interested in the intricacies of how much they won each time,
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: where all of the races were, how long the horse's
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: careers were, a little bit more about the horses, the
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: people who were the jockeys. All of that stuff is
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: in the book, but just know that Sylvia was She
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: was to trained horses for many races for many people
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: over the years. And at first Sylvia was training horses
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: under the radars. She didn't have a license, so her
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: name would not be listed in like the official programs.
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: Her husband, for instance, would be recorded as the trainer
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: on the programs, even though he wasn't actually involved with
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: the day to day operations and training of the horse,
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: he was still listed as a trainer. And you know,
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: while he was listed, Sylvia was the one who was
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: like cleaning the stalls. She would be wrapping the horse's legs,
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: and she would be up early in the morning training
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: the horses. But Sylvia got pregnant and on January fifth,
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: nineteen fifty eight, she was lifting a saddle onto a
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: horse when her water broke and her daughter, Laverne Augusta
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: Bishop was born. Sylvia was about thirty seven years old
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: at the time, and she took like six months off
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: of racing, and she had help She had a nanny
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: named Sarah Eliza Jones, who lived with them until she
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: died in the late nineteen seventies. Although Laverne, I mean,
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: I don't know she had a lot of siblings. Sylvia
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: had a lot of siblings, and Laverne her daughter, though
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: there were her siblings who were also invested in horse
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: racing too, but Laverne didn't end up having the same
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: amount of enthusiasm and commitment to horse racing that her
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: mother did, but still she grew up around horses. But yeah,
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: in nineteen fifty nine, Sylvia did take the exam to
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: become a licensed racehorse trainer, and that's where her first
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: comes in. So people would have to have a state
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: permit for three years and another racing job before they
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: could apply, and there was a written and a practical
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: part of the test. So the written part of the
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: test would be like you know, talking, you have to
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: answer questions about how to care for horses, and then
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: there was a practical where you actually have to work
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: with a horse. If someone didn't pass the test, they
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: would have to wait six months to a year to
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: retake it.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: So it was a pretty big deal. But Sylvia did.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: Pass her tests and she got her license, and so
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: she got her first the first black woman licensed to
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: train racehorses in the United States. So Sylvia did face
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: racial engender discrimination during her time working as a trainer,
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: Like in general, it wasn't seen the racetrack wasn't seen
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: as a place for women, Black women especially, so she
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: faced like people calling her negative epithets because she was black.
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: But you know, she she was also working in West Virginia,
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: so people at larger racetracks didn't always know about Sylvia.
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: But you know, the way that her family members described
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: her is like she didn't really she.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Didn't really talk much. She was she was grateful for
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: what she did.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: She enjoyed her job, and she didn't really like have
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: a lot to say about those experiences that she dealt with.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: But yeah, Sylvia and an attorney who was named Lee
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: Buschong eventually teamed up to breed racehorses with with Sylvia's
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: retired mayor, who was named Chalky. Chalky died in nineteen
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: sixty seven when she was giving birth to her fifth
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: fall and Sylvia had her own methods of like taking
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: care of her horses. She seems like she was really
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: in tune with her horses. So it's described as that
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: she would even maybe no more than her vets. She
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: would go to her vets, but she would just be
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: able to look at a horse and tell them what
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: was wrong with them without any sort of, you know,
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: extra investigation. It's like, oh, if you look here, then
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: you can see this is what's wrong with the horse.
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: So she fed her horses wheat germ oil that would
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: help with their making their coats shinier. She would feed
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: them flax mill which would apparently help them shed their
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: winter coats. She gave them peppermint candy as a treat.
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: She would put jello in their feets, which was apparently
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: helpful for their hooves, and she would also put guinness
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: in their feet from time to time because it would
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: encourage them to eat and maybe sweat more. But when
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: she was training her horses, she was working with them
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: as individuals, so based on what she would see, based
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: on what she would observe about their mood and how
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: they did in their sessions together, that's based that's what
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: she would base her treatment of them on and her
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: care for them on. But in nineteen sixty three, she
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: and John separated and they ended up divorcing in July
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: of nineteen sixty seven. She said that he went into
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: the music business and they didn't see eye to eye.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: He stayed in the entertainment business, and he did keep
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: in touch with Laverne, although Sylvia had custody of Laverne.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: But Sylvia continued to train horses for many owners. Now,
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: she did struggle financially. So throughout her story you'll see
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: like she owe people money. She had trouble paying for things.
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: She borrowed money to be able to pay for supplies
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: for her horses. When she would earn things like earn
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: money from the races, that's when she would go and
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: buy a pickup truck. And that pickup truck was like
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: to help her with work, so it would help her
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: haull things. So there were definitely financial struggles throughout her life.
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: Like so, horse racing wasn't something that made her like
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: in really rich during her lifetime, but to make extra money.
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: In nineteen seventy four, Sylvia did pick up another job
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: and she was working at a double day publishing factory
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: in Barryville, Virginia. She still lived at her house in Charlestown,
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: but she wasn't training at the racetrack. During the time
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: she was working at that factory, she did end up
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: getting married to another man named Theodore Wells, although they
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: divorced in July of nineteen seventy six. So, yeah, she's
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: working at the factory trying to make extra money. But
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: she left her job in the factory in nineteen eighty six,
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: so the whole time she hadn't forgot about working at
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: the racetrack. She wanted to go back to racing, and
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: she did that. In eighty seven. She bought a horse
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: name half Quacked, and that horse won her first race,
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: but none of the races with Sylvia after that one, unfortunately,
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: and she still needed more money. So in the nineties
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: she was renting out rooms in Payning's Hotel, which was
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: a twenty one or twenty room house that she inherited
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: from Lavinea Pain and there was a tap room that
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: was on that bottom floor and the venue was pretty
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: popular with the black folks in the community. But by
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety eight, she was like still struggling with bills.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: She had medical bills, she had utility bills, credit card bills,
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: and she had like close to twenty thousand dollars worth
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: of unpaid income tax, so she ended up having to
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: borrow against her home. But she was still racing the horses.
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: She was still training racehorses, and between eighty seven and
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: two thousand and she raced three hundred and forty nine
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: times and she won forty four times, and the horses
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: that she trained won just over one hundred and sixty
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: six thousand dollars. But yeah, she was getting older and
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: in January of nineteen ninety nine she sold her home
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: for sixty five thousand dollars. She went to move into
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: the Charles Towers and her family promised to come check
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: in on her take care of her. But even though
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: she sold her home, she still had to pay her
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: mortgage off and there was an income tax lean so
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: there wasn't a ton of money left over after that,
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: but she ended up retiring from racing. Then she was
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: honored though in her lifetime. In two thousand and three,
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: the West Virginia Legislature honored her as the first licensed
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: black female thoroughbred horse trainer in the US and West Virginia,
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: and she's had a plaque.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Dedicated to her.
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: I think it was last year that there was a
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: ceremony with the sign put up about her in West Virginia.
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: But yeah, she woke up sick on Christmas Day in
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: two thousand and four. She was put in an ambulance, went
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: to the hospital, and she died a couple of days
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: later on December twenty seventh, two thousand and four. And
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: that's the story of Sylvia write up.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: Bishop.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: I'm really glad you brought this one as always, and
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: I'm really interested to read this book because it sounds
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: like this whole world of horse racing is something I
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: just know nothing about, and I love it. Sounds like
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: she was so she cared about the horses so much,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: and she had this just love that was there from
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: when she was a child, Like it was just something
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: she felt. And I always loved to see that when
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: people we do get to follow that that spark inside them.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: It is unfortunate that she wasn't making that much money
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: from it, but I'm glad that she got to do it.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: She seemed to really love it.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she did, and like her, she had a child,
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: she had grandchildren too that had become invested in horse
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: racing and horses, and also like her siblings, also were
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: in horse racings and working with horses too, so you know,
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: even beyond her legacy was also something her family was
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: involved in and still is. So it's not like when
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: she passed away, you know, every all of her legacy
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: ended with horse racing. It still continued, and you know,
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: she had stuff named after her and she was put
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: in halls of in the Hall of Fame in West Virginia.
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: So yeah, it's it's pretty inspiring still.
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: You know, I like that you have details about or
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: they gave details about the food in the diets of
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: those horses, like that is so specific that that was
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: very important to the narrative and the story that she
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: knew exactly how to care for them, like she was
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: doing things way in advance that people are talking about.
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: I'm like, Okay, she knew what she was like, I
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: gotta do this for the hair, make our glow, make
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: it pretty. You gotta do this for the guinness. Another highlight,
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: the jello threw me off from this whole lot.
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: Well apparently it was you know, gelatine is supposed to
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: be good for it, so it had something you know,
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: it was kind of along those lines. I know that
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: it was like some stuff was had a little bit
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: more truth to.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: It than other things did.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: And there were a lot of things that people were
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: doing because it was competitive also, so I mean, you know,
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: I woul didn't really get too much into it. But
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: the races themselves, you know, they're very competitive.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: People are betting on them.
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: There are thousands of people in the grand stand on
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: the day of the races. You know, even in these
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: smaller places, people travel for you know, from all these
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: different cities to come go.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: To the races.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: So there were big events and they were competitive, and
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: even though they only lasted so long, and it's like
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: horse race was a super short event, but.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: You know it was it was.
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: They were dramatic and you know, there was a lot
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: riding on not to be too on the nose riding
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: on these races. The stakes are high. So yeah, I
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: there was a lot that people did to win, as
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: people do in any competitive sport, like the drugs that
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: they gave the horses, the drugs that they gave themselves,
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: you know, the ways they had to lose weight. They
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: figured out to lose weight in ways that you know
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: were questionable, some against the rules, to be able to
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: give themselves the best shot of winning on the day
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: of But then there was a lot that was obviously
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: up to chance and look and timing as well, but yeah,
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: all of that was a part of it. And the
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: thing that I was thinking about this because I'm not
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: too well versed in horse racing either, Like it does
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: seem like one of those things when you're like you're
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: in it and you have a history of it in
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: your family, then you know it is uh, you know,
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: it's something that can be passed down along generations and
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: that you know, you can kind of inherit. But I
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: was thinking about how how betting heavy all of this,
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: this whole industry and sport is. It's like people are
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: betting on it, but also like as a trainer, as
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: a jockey, and all of the people who are involved
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: in horse racing, it's all very like you it's it's
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: a betting game.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a whole lifestyle.
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: Like this whole thing would like when think about the
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: Kentucky Derby and the long tradition says in't it And
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: it is like even the traditions are going is passed
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: down from generations and generations, like how you're stressed that
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: has and it's also like the levels and different levels
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: of it and I don't know, I know, maybe it's
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: around maybe the Derby time where I hear a lot
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: of conspiracies and a lot of like controversies because of
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: things like the weight and the type of diet and
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: how a day they get said, Like, I think there's
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: different like murder stories behind and like grand theft type
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: of things. You're like, my gosh, this is a whole
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: culture in itself.
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah it is. Yeah, it's really fascinating. But like, as
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: someone who isn't a betting person, like in general, I'm like,
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: I can't imagine being involved in something that seems so
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: volatile and turbulent and up to chance, and then on
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: top of that, a large mammal is involved, so it's
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: like something you have to take care of that's like
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: not a standard, you know, you have to you have
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: to learn everything that goes along with the care of
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: force is on top of all of that, and that
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: seems like a lot of work. So definitely I ignowl and
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: recognize that in Sylvia's story.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, and the people who are doing it right caring
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: for the horses, yes, yes, that is another element to this.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, Annie, because
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: obviously there's a lot of you know, kinds of malpractices
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: and things that are done that you know, I couldn't
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: tell you how that's changed over time, but I imagine there
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: have been more safeguards put in place over the years,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: like from when Sylvia's first started working to the point
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: where she died. When it comes to like how care
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: is managed, how people who are participating in the events,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: like the kinds of rules they have to face, when
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: it comes to how they're like enhancements and you know, drugs.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: And caring for themselves. So yeah, definitely a big part
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: of this too. Whenever any animal is involved in something
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: that humans feel strongly about and want to make money
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: off of, there are going to be problems. Yeah, yes, yes, Well,
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: thank you again Eves for bringing this story to as
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: we always love having you on. Where can the good
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: listeners find you?
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Y'all can find me?
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: Y'all can just go to my website, which is Eves
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: Jeffcote dot com, y V E S J E F
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: F C O A T dot com and you can
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: pretty much get to everything else from there. You can
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: sign up for my newsletter. You can also find me
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: on Instagram at not apologizing and on many many other
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: episodes of Sminty talking about the accomplishments of women in history.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, go check all that out if you haven't already, listeners,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: and maybe next time we talk to you Eve's you'll
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: have some courseback writings.
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: Gush about that. Don't hold me to it, but you
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: never know, ya. I'm trying to do something different every day.
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: I always get inspired by some whiff of something, so.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, can't wait to hear what it is next
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: time you're on the meantime. Listeners would like to contact us,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: you can or email us Hello at stuff I've Never
• 34:02
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• 34:06
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• 34:09
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• 34:10
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• 34:13
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