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Ori and the Blind Forest · The Long and Short of It

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Thanks for checking out the Long and Short of It podcast.
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We hope you enjoy the show. Hello and welcome to the Long
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and Short of It, the podcast where we discuss each of the
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games on the Open Critic Top 100 list.
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My name is Dan and I'm joined by.
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This is Lawrence, welcome to the podcast.
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Welcome to the podcast 1 and All.
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How is it going? Yeah.
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All right. It's been, it's been a few
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I went, I had my first ever physio appointment.
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That was that was painful. Don't know if you've ever had a
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Sore spots. Well, as as many listeners may
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So I wasn't sure if I'd have to defer.
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But I was told to go and see a physio.
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an hour and it was all right. So yes, it was lovely.
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And if anyone still wants to donate, the link is in our our
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Instagram bio for that. But yes, I'm well, other than
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that just we're both, I think, quite busy.
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What about you? Well, you just said it right
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there. Busy, boys.
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I'm also busy. I was in the northeast of
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England this week. I'm in Aberdeen next week.
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So yeah, we're just, we're just doing what we can here and
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there. Still, still fully committed to
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the podcast. Just bear with us.
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Yeah. So busy, boys.
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Yeah. And and on that note, we're here
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to talk about a game. The game that we are here to
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talk about is the game that we announced that we were talking
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about last time. That was that was the episode
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where I've not planned anything and I came up with the next game
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part way through the episode. Is that right?
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I think something like that, yeah, it seems like about 17
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years since we last recorded, so yes.
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Brilliant. So we are here to discuss number
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84 on the Open Critic top 100 list.
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Number 84 is Ori and the Blind Forest, which has a an open
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critic score of 90 and was released in the year 2015.
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Avid listeners of the podcast will remember that we actually
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recorded Ori and the Will of the.
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Wisps the sequel about. Three years ago now.
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Yeah, it. Was 2023.
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I had a look earlier. OK, there we go, 2023.
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Yeah, the sequel to this, so not really bucking.
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I'm I'm guessing that we did that because Ori in the Will of
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the Wisps was on the Metacritic list, correct?
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This one wasn't, and this is on the open critic list.
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So we actually have a good reason this time for having
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played the sequel first, whereas we we don't usually have a good
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reason. We just do it.
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So let's let's jump straight into it.
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What is Ori and the Blind Forest for those people not in the
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know? It's a it's a platformer.
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It's a Metroidvania platformer. I'm guessing that you probably
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played the definitive edition for this this podcast.
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It came out a year or two after the the original, didn't it?
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So I played the whatever one is available on the switch.
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Definitive, I think. But yeah, it's another
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Metroidvania, which we've played a few of on the podcast before.
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And I'll be honest, I was thinking about this earlier
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because I listened to the first kind of 15 minutes of our
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episode on the Will of the Wisps.
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I don't remember playing that game.
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There's so many games. There's so many games that we've
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played. I mean, we've been doing this
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for six years. There's so many games where, if
4:25
you're like to remember that one, I'll probably be like, not
4:29
really, no, I was thinking. I always remember before
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moments. Yeah, yeah, I'll get.
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That like little kind of glimpses.
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The thing that I remember about Ori and the Will of the Wisps
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was that I got to the end of it and I thought it was a decent
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game. There is a section near the end
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where you have to brutal, yeah, where you have to like react
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really quickly. And there are no, there are no
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checkpoints. And it, yeah, it, it was, it
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took me a few attempts to to do that.
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And that's what I remember Ori and the Will of the Wist for.
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When, when, when, when I started playing this, I I had to do a
5:10
double take because the start of this game, it gives you a bit of
5:14
back story and Ori and kind of like his parent figure Naru.
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And I mean, the intro to this game gives me kind of vibes of
5:26
the the Pixar film Up, where it's a bit sad at the start.
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And like with everything that happened with Nauru and the
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intro to this game, I was like, are we playing the right game?
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I swear that we've, I swear that we've already played this.
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And I had to look on our list to see if we hadn't already played
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Blind Forest and I should have been playing one of the wisps.
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But no it it was the correct one that I was playing.
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But like for about 1520 minutes I was like, have I played this
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before? I, I did exactly the same thing,
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but I think for a different reason.
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I, I started this game and I was like, this is this is familiar?
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And I, I, I did the same thing where I went and checked the one
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that we played before just to make sure.
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And I kind of got past that, but I wasn't sure whether I'd
6:18
actually played the intro to this before, because I'd
6:22
actually. Did you already have it?
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Game? Yeah.
6:24
Yeah, I bought it. I bought it a couple of years
6:26
ago. So I may have just jumped in at
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some point and started playing, or it's the Ori and the Will of
6:36
the Wisps might have a very similar introduction, I don't
6:40
know. Maybe I'd have to go back and
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play it, I think. But I mean, the the gap between
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sequels here is five years because Willie the Wisps came
6:48
out in 2020. But I think that is because of
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the amount of work and effort that exists.
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I mean, it's an indie game really.
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And the amount of time and effort that went into these
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games, like specific screens, like never, ever reusing sprites
7:06
or animations or stuff like the amount of work that went into it
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is mad. So I suppose for an indie
7:12
studio, five years is about right, seeing as we're talking
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about, you know, a AAA game like GTA6, which has got thousands of
7:20
people working on it, and that's taken 13 years.
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So I guess five years isn't actually that long.
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No. And I think it's like the Hollow
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Night sequel that came out recently that took similarly
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long time. And I think with games like
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this, they're really labours of love and you can see it in every
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pixel. So I suppose if they've got the
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funding, which Hollow Night and this did have from Microsoft for
7:54
this, then why not make the best game that you can make?
8:01
Well, this is an example of like my or Xbox Game Studios kind of
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emulating like what you you sometimes call like the glory
8:11
years of the PS3, like when the PlayStation was like absolutely
8:15
pumping out fantastic indie games.
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This kind of feels like Microsoft's version of that
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like. Games like, yes, I I agree.
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And and I think there was a period in the Xbox One life
8:26
cycle where Microsoft did hone in on Indies.
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And there's quite a nice little period there where they where
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they came out with quite a few good things, this being one of
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them. And yeah, it is I, I always
8:44
remember those times fondly. PS3 and also the Xbox One doing
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the same thing. Yeah.
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I think having these indie resurgences is a good thing for
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the industry. Yeah, absolutely.
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So long may it live. OK, so we've talked about the
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version that we played. Can you give me a very broad
9:08
overview of the plot please? Yeah, so I think it's probably
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quite a good thing that I don't remember anything about Will of
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the Wisps, because I wasn't going and being like, oh, this
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happens in the sequel that happened because I literally
9:19
don't remember. But you basically play as Ori
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who's like a guardian spirits of the forest, trying to restore
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life to the forest in which he lives.
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I think it's called the forest of of Neeble.
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But basically the spirit tree, which is the tree that gives all
9:40
life to the forest, lost its light.
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And the aim of the game is for Ori to bring back the light of
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the forest and bring back life to the forest and bring back
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that light to the forest tree or the spirit tree.
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Sorry and kind of through the game it's very I'd say it's a
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little bit Zelda esque because it kind of focuses around like a
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few different dungeons. There are about 6 or 7 different
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areas in the game, but mainly like 3 what you would call
10:13
dungeons to get this thing in each area to bring back the the
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light to the spirit tree. But the thing that I I think I
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liked about this game, because I kind of vaguely remember with
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Will of the Wisps is I didn't really like the boss fights.
10:33
It didn't feel like a very combat heavy game.
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And this one, because it's the the former, it doesn't really
10:40
have boss fights per SE. They're more kind of like boss
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traversal sections. But yeah, the game's basically
10:48
about restoring balance to the forest and, you know, bringing
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life back, I would say is the. Yeah, it's, it's, it's that
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simple really. And it's quite Disney esque and.
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Yeah, I one of, I was going to say I did.
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I mean, I've done a fair bit of research on this game anyway
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because I'm a consummate professional.
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But apparently, and you can see it, there are like 3 kind of
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main things that yeah, inspiration is the word I was
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looking for that the developers kind of run off with this.
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The first two, one of them is The Lion King, which I think I
11:27
kind of get. The second is The Iron Giant.
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Do you remember that film? Yeah, from like 98 or 99.
11:33
But the other? Did that have Robin Williams in?
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I can't remember. I don't know because from memory
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the Iron Giant doesn't actually talk.
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It's like a boy. I can't remember.
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I've not seen that film since I was a kid.
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Mixing it up with Bicentennial Man or something.
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But yeah, Lion King, I enjoy it. And then the third one, I've
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never watched anything from them but Studio Ghibli nor.
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Zakaya and the Valley of the Winds.
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Is that it? Yes.
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Oh, there you go. So that's the Ghibli film.
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And there's even an area in the game which is, I don't know if
12:10
it's the Valley of the Winds, but it's it's something of the
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winds. And yeah.
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That's the one towards the end, isn't it?
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It's the middle 1, I believe. Yeah.
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So so no Zakaya and the Valley of the Winds.
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So yeah, I love the Gibby stuff. It's it's.
12:26
Amazing. I've never seen any of it, but I
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know the. I really recommend watching.
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Yeah. I mean, I mean, I mean maybe,
12:33
maybe, yeah, maybe that's something that we'll do at some
12:35
point. Watching, watching, yeah.
12:38
Watch Spirited Away and then we can kind of do an overview of
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that because I think I'd be interested to see what you
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think. I think there magnificent and
12:49
that is that is probably that and My Neighbour Totoro are
12:53
probably. The I've heard of that one.
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Yeah, that's yeah, that's that's a big one.
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That's where they the mascot comes from.
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OK. Obviously very, very big in in
13:04
Japan and yeah, massive, yeah, all sorts of stuff when we were
13:08
over there last I. Was going to say, I imagine you
13:10
probably saw quite a bit of it when you're over.
13:12
There. Oh yeah, there's shops,
13:12
literally whole shops dedicated to to Gibley.
13:16
Yeah, yeah. So, so maybe we'll do that at
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some point, but yeah, so you can see those inspirations.
13:21
And to follow on from that, I feel like the the introduction
13:28
to this game, the 1st 15 minutes is just a thing of beauty.
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The the way that it's laid out and the way that it tugs at your
13:36
heartstrings without really saying much.
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Yeah, it's it's really quite artistic and beautiful in its
13:46
delivery and it's yeah, so I really enjoyed that.
13:50
OK, on to our ever present feature.
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Gameplay is King is Ori and the Blind Forest funds play.
14:00
I'd say that it's got goods, like a gameplay feedback loop.
14:06
I think I've probably mentioned it in games that we've played
14:09
like this before. I don't really like
14:10
metroidvanias, I just find them quite tedious and I think I said
14:17
that and because we've recently played a metroidvania in Hollow
14:20
Night and I struggle with them because I find quite that they
14:27
get annoying fast. For me they're quite slow, but
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this one didn't feel quite as bad.
14:34
I'd say that I didn't find the game fun.
14:38
There are good moves in the game that make it, you know, more
14:40
engaging to play, but rather than fun, I'd say that it's
14:45
captivating. But I think a lot of that is due
14:48
to the world building and the the the locales that you explore
14:54
in the game, if you know what I mean.
14:58
But it's a good time. It's worth playing, But I don't
15:01
know if I'd call it Oh, I'm going to go and have some fun on
15:03
Ori and the Blind Forest. Yeah, Yeah, I think I'd agree
15:07
with that. I think there's a lot going on
15:12
in terms of the gameplay and the power ups that you get.
15:16
And I will say at times I found it a bit tedious, but at times I
15:24
was kind of flowing along and often I'd forget to because
15:28
obviously the saving in this game is a bit of a strange set
15:32
up. And you hold A to create your
15:35
own save state wherever you want, really, as long as you're
15:41
on solid ground and you're safe from enemies.
15:44
So my my issue with that is I kept forgetting to save.
15:49
Yeah, I found. And then I'd go back like half
15:51
hour. Yeah, yeah.
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So yeah, that that's, that's probably my own doing really.
15:56
And I'm not I'm not against unusual save formats.
16:00
A lack of auto saving in the game from 2015 though, Bloody
16:03
hell. Yeah, well, this is it.
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And I think we've become accustomed.
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To it, yeah, big time. I think lazy.
16:11
Yeah. And there are games that I
16:13
recall where you are required to manually save very often and.
16:19
Have to call melee. This isn't usually that style of
16:22
game and this is what I think threw me.
16:24
Yeah, I know what you mean. But yeah, so this isn't.
16:27
Usually the case for platformers.
16:30
Yeah, and things that look so child friendly and then you have
16:37
to to save off your own back. But yeah, it it it was just
16:42
something that I had to get my head around.
16:44
So not really I got to think or anything, but something that
16:47
took some time for just two. But yeah.
16:50
But yeah, generally speaking on on a good night, it's fun.
16:53
It's a game that I didn't play in long bursts.
16:55
I played in short bursts. I will Full disclosure, I
16:58
haven't completed this yet and I will complete it.
17:02
Did you say you liked it on the switch?
17:04
Yeah, yeah. So I was playing it in longer
17:07
burst, but that's because I was playing it on Steam.
17:10
OK. So shorter bursts, I feel for
17:12
this game is probably better, which is why it's well designed
17:14
for the Switch. Whereas Steam, you go to
17:18
computer, you turn it on. I would say like I was playing
17:20
this game for maybe like an hour or so at a time, but it isn't a
17:23
particularly long game, is it? Do you know what?
17:26
I think it's really funny, like you said that, and it did sound
17:30
tedious when you said it, like booting something up, turning
17:34
something on. But one of the things that
17:36
really surprises me was I'm still all for physical games,
17:41
and I still buy physical games wherever I can.
17:44
But one of the things that bothers me nowadays is having to
17:48
remove a disc and change it. Yeah, I know.
17:51
Whereas obviously we've become accustomed to just clicking
17:54
something in the menu and it just opens straight up.
17:57
It I know. So I kind of I'm 70% physical,
18:01
but about 30% digital. But I will say that the
18:04
convenience of digital has has won me over just a little bit,
18:11
but I still won't move away from physical.
18:12
Because no, there is. Nothing.
18:14
Yeah, I I feel that we could, we could do an entire episode
18:18
talking about the pros and cons of digital media.
18:21
And for me it is mainly cons, but also I'm lazy.
18:25
Yeah, that's a big. One, isn't it?
18:28
That's it. But unfortunately, one day when
18:30
they're like, all right, we're going to turn the servers off.
18:32
If you haven't got that that game downloaded.
18:34
Oh yeah. Then it's why a lot of people
18:36
say that it's it's morally OK to pirate Nintendo games because
18:41
they just don't make it possible for you to yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:44
Play a lot of their older their older catalogue, but digressing
18:49
that's a that's a very difficult.
18:51
Topic it is but but we got time until the time anyway.
18:55
But I also think just having a physical collection, there's
19:00
something to be said about that. Like if something makes it into
19:03
your collection and it lasts the the test of time, then yeah, I
19:08
just think there's there's still some some meaning to that.
19:11
And I don't think we should do away with it.
19:13
But yes, we digress. OK, so we've sort of touched on
19:19
this already, but I'd like you to elaborate a little bit more,
19:22
which is how does this game compare to other Metroid Vanias
19:26
we've played for the podcast? So thinking of Hollow Knight,
19:30
thinking of obviously Ori and the Will of the Wiz from what
19:34
you can remember. And we have played at least one
19:39
other. We've played a few.
19:42
Yeah, we've played a few. I mean, the game that I would
19:45
probably most liken this to in terms of the way that it plays.
19:48
And I think it's why it didn't feel like too much of a slog in
19:51
terms of the Metroidvania eskness of it is Celeste,
19:57
because a lot of this game is really based on the traversal.
20:02
Like we said, the boss fights are more platforming, traversal
20:06
based, and it's like how fast can you solve these problems and
20:09
get out of this section like the is it the Ginzo tree?
20:13
Were floods, yeah, that's arguably like the most famous
20:18
part of the game. And that is literally just,
20:23
well, escape. And you have to be really good
20:25
at platforming, otherwise you're going to have to restart this
20:28
section lots of times. That's what that section was
20:30
like at the end of Ori and the winner of the Wisps.
20:33
That was just super, yeah. Rigid, frustrating.
20:37
Yeah. So it's the same sort of thing
20:38
as that, but longer and yeah. Changing, See, I, I, I liken
20:45
that to Celeste because Celeste is all traversal.
20:49
There are like, there are some enemies here and there and well,
20:52
no, there are quite a few enemies in this game, but the
20:55
combat isn't what the game's about.
20:57
It's kind of like they're there because, oh, this is a video
20:59
game and they need to be enemies.
21:00
They're there to throw. Obstacles at you while you're
21:03
platforming, really. Whereas I think that they don't
21:06
really need to be. I think that it works fine
21:10
without them. But yeah, it's it's all about
21:14
the traversal, which is why I don't feel it's too much like a
21:16
Metroidvania. Like I you say like Hollow Night
21:20
and this game, which we've played both within the space of
21:23
like a month or two of each other.
21:25
They're both Metroidvanias, but they feel so different.
21:29
They do they do and and even totally they feel different.
21:32
I personally I prefer hollow nights of this.
21:37
I had a, I would say I had a blast with Hollow Night and it's
21:41
still not my favourite Metro Yvonia, but I really had a good
21:44
time with that, really got sucked into it, which surprised
21:47
me really. Yeah, I, I didn't get on with it
21:51
as much. I much preferred this.
21:53
And maybe that isn't a crazy thing because I, I love Celeste.
22:00
You know, that's probably in my top 10 games that we've played
22:03
for the podcast over the past few years.
22:05
This is a very charming game, isn't it?
22:07
Yeah, big time. That's a good word for, I'd say.
22:10
OK, so Speaking of charming, talk to me about the visuals of
22:16
this game. This, this game's very heavily
22:20
focused on the lighting, isn't it?
22:21
And each area has its own particular like look.
22:29
And you've got the three dungeons, which one's water,
22:32
one's wind and then the last one is is effectively like fire,
22:37
like lava. But it's a very like the colours
22:43
in this game pop. And even at the start, I mean,
22:45
it was probably the same in one of the wisps.
22:47
Like I say, I don't remember much of it, but the look, the
22:50
look, particularly of Ori, Ori is very small on the screen.
22:54
The like each screen is quite big and quite vast.
22:58
And Ori is only a small section of it, but you can always see
23:00
where. Well, I say he it is because
23:05
it's like a glowing light that comes out of Ori and it really
23:09
pops. Like this is probably one of the
23:11
most visually pleasing games that we've played.
23:13
Similar to one of the wisps as well, I would imagine.
23:17
But yeah, it's. Like a pop up book.
23:19
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's a really good word for it.
23:21
I mean, you can even say that's a really good, like an analogy,
23:26
analogy. That's a really good like term
23:29
to use when you think of like the Kuro, which is the the giant
23:33
owl, which is like the the antagonist, I suppose, of the
23:35
game. Kuro is when I see you can
23:38
imagine opening like a page of a book and Kuro's just big owl
23:41
face coming out with the red eyes.
23:45
Yeah, it's, it's a really visually stunning game.
23:48
And it like for a game that came out 11 years ago, it still
23:51
really, really stands out. Like it's, it's not an age.
23:55
No, it's like games that we've talked about in the past, like
23:58
Wind Waker. That game will never age because
24:02
that game's cel shaded and that just doesn't ever really look
24:07
bad. Whereas compared to realistic
24:10
graphics from 10/12/13 fourteen years ago, with the exception of
24:14
some games like MGS 4 or whatever they which.
24:17
Is a bit stylized its own way. True.
24:19
True. Yeah, and I know exactly what
24:22
you mean. And even when you go back to
24:25
things like Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare, sort of the
24:27
original versions, what looked stunning at the time has aged
24:32
quite visibly if you play it in the year 2026.
24:35
So yeah, I'm right there with you.
24:37
I think it's it's a really beautiful game, wonderfully
24:41
animated, kind of like a combination between a children's
24:46
animation and a pop up book. And it just looks lush.
24:54
Really nice. What about the audio of this
24:57
game? Yeah, again, I think the audio
25:02
is good. I wouldn't say is anything worth
25:04
writing home for, but it suits the vibe of the game.
25:08
It suits the environments that it covers.
25:11
This game is very much sweeping. Yeah.
25:14
And it's a very like visual storytelling book, you know?
25:18
But yeah, the music's good. I don't have too much more to
25:23
say. No, it's a nice companion piece
25:25
to everything else, isn't it? Yeah, I agree.
25:27
I agree. And there's some really nice
25:29
effects here as well with the the like the wind and the water.
25:34
And yeah, Metroidvanias tend to do really well with effects
25:37
work. So OK, so in your in your, in
25:45
your looking into this game, I wonder if you came across this
25:48
fact. This is our Did You Know
25:50
feature. Did you know that Ori and the
25:55
Blind Forest was based on an obscure British game from the
26:00
year 1992? No, there is a game that I would
26:04
maybe draw a few comparisons from, but that game is not from
26:07
1992, so I'm intrigued as to what that might be.
26:10
What's the game that you're thinking of?
26:12
Abe's Odyssey, even though ABES Odyssey is from, I don't know,
26:17
like 97 maybe, and it's a game that I'd like us to play at some
26:20
point. The remade version, we talked
26:22
about it a while ago, Oddworld New and Tasty, because they made
26:26
that game pop a lot like the way that Ori does.
26:30
But there are elements of the game that made me think a little
26:32
bit of ABES Odyssey or ABES Exodus.
26:35
So yeah, what's the game from 92?
26:38
So the game from 92 is blobby. Brilliant, Blobby and the.
26:42
Blobby in the Blind Forest. Blobby in the house party.
26:46
Yeah, yeah. So as our as our blobby antics
26:50
get more elaborate, we have fun. I I didn't actually know that.
26:55
So that's a really good. Did you know that fact that
26:57
that's. Yeah, there you go.
26:59
There you go. So, so actual some of the actual
27:01
digitos are you probably do know this because you've read about
27:05
the game. Obviously it's it's a team
27:08
that's not based in one location, so that's spread out
27:10
all across the world, which I think is a pretty cool fact.
27:14
There was an Xbox 360 version planned.
27:18
But this this game in my mind is really synonymous with the Xbox
27:24
One. So I can't even imagine a 360
27:28
version of this game. It just feels out of time and
27:31
place. And like you said, every asset
27:36
in this game is unique. So every tree that you see,
27:40
every rock, you will not see a duplicated asset anywhere else
27:44
in the game. And I think that's really
27:45
impressive. Even some of the biggest budget
27:49
games you see. I mean how many times have you
27:53
played a game and you've seen a painting in the game and then
27:56
two rooms later you see the same painting and you're like, I just
28:00
saw that 2 rooms ago. Or you see the same setup of so
28:04
you go into a building and it's got exactly the same layout as
28:07
one that you were in half hour ago, or the same desk or the
28:12
same armchair or sofa. And obviously this is a 2D game
28:18
so it's not a one to one comparison.
28:22
But I still think it's impressive that they've managed
28:25
to do that. And given the small size of the
28:28
studio, it's one of the things that I noticed more and more as
28:32
I, as I get older and become maybe a little bit more aware of
28:34
games is repeated assets. And yeah, not, not only that.
28:41
So between sequels, you'll see assets that are the same that
28:46
were used in the previous game. And it's not, it's not laziness,
28:51
it's, it's efficiency. It's, it's making that
28:53
development process as efficient as possible.
28:55
So I'm not against it, but I can appreciate when a game goes out
29:00
of its way to handcraft all these lovely environments
29:05
without a single piece of repetition.
29:08
So yeah, impressive stuff. Yeah, it it, it shows a level of
29:12
dedication to the arts. And I mean, another game that
29:15
I'd maybe somewhat liken this to is Journey.
29:20
I don't know why, because obviously they're very different
29:23
games. Into the high point isn't.
29:26
It. Yeah, I think so.
29:28
And to be fair, it made me want to play Journey again, but oh
29:32
really? Yeah, I probably won't for a
29:33
long time, but. Yeah, journey's good it.
29:37
Is I I enjoyed Journey. It's one of those games.
29:40
It's never the same whenever you go through it and you never
29:43
know, you might find someone to play through it with.
29:44
Yeah, yeah, getting rarer and rarer, but.
29:48
I thought so. I didn't.
29:49
I for a you did. Yeah.
29:53
So on to our question of the week.
29:59
I want you to just get lost in your imagination a bit here.
30:04
If Ori had the budget and the team behind it to come out with
30:11
a 3D version in the same way that Metroid Prime did for the
30:17
Metroid series, what do you think it would look like and
30:19
what sort of changes do you think would need to be in place?
30:23
I mean, Metroid Prime I think is a very different kind of game to
30:28
the other Metroids, like the 2D Metroids and, and it has to.
30:32
Be, doesn't it? Yeah, 100%.
30:34
And I, I think it's so, so hard to kind of imagine a 2D game
30:43
into 3D. Mario's done it relatively well,
30:45
obviously, but then you look at games like Sonic and that's
30:50
really struggled. And I'd say that Sonic was a lot
30:54
more reliant on being a 2D scroller in the early days than
30:58
Mario was in, you know, that series early days.
31:03
Whereas Zelda was a little bit different because Zelda was
31:06
more. So other than Zelda two, it was
31:08
a top down. Game.
31:11
And I don't know, I think you'd have to completely change up the
31:17
vibe of the game. And I don't know how you'd do
31:19
that. And it wouldn't be the same as
31:21
what it is now. And I think it will probably
31:23
have to be like an open world exploration kind of thing.
31:26
It would have to be like like a platformer in a similar vein to
31:31
like Banjo Kazooie or more more recently Ukulele Do.
31:37
You think it could work? No, I don't.
31:40
I don't think so. Unless they completely changed
31:42
up what the game is and at that point you lose what it should
31:47
be. I mean, look at, again, look at
31:50
Sonic. Sonic tried so hard to reinvent
31:53
itself when it went 3D. Yes, Sonic Adventure was good,
31:56
as was Sonic Adventure 2 to some extent.
31:59
But then you've got all of the the games where it just couldn't
32:02
work out what it wanted to be. Sonic, when you think about it,
32:06
is a 2D platformer that that focuses on momentum.
32:10
And then you had Shadow the Hedgehog, which was the third
32:13
person shooter. You had Sonic and the the
32:17
ancient rings or something like that, which like where Sonic's a
32:20
night, there was the game where Sonic turns into a werewolf or
32:23
werehog. It just didn't ever know what it
32:26
wanted to be. I will say the the newest 3D
32:30
Sonic that we've gotten, which is Shadow and Sonic God knows
32:38
slash cross thing. I've forgotten the name
32:41
completely, but I've actually completed that game and I will
32:44
say it is a return to form for 3D Sonic and it's a really good
32:51
game to play. So it's basically like a a
32:53
polished version of the Sonic Adventure one in two games
33:01
without some of the ageing issues that those games have.
33:04
Yeah, I. Mean 2012 when they released
33:09
Sonic Generations, that worked because it did a massive focus
33:12
on the 2D element and it was like, but also there's going to
33:15
be the 3D elements to it too, but it is literally about
33:17
platforming. That's what it is.
33:18
Sonic Generation X Shadow, that's what.
33:21
Oh, OK, excellent. So it's the original Sonic
33:23
Generations plus a whole new section on Shadow which is
33:27
arguably better than. The.
33:29
Generation stuff it's not, but I would be happy to play that
33:33
again. It's a good game.
33:34
Yeah, I'd be interested. I played a bit of Sonic
33:35
Generations when it came out in 2012 when we're at uni, but I've
33:39
not played it since so that. Could be it's a really decent
33:42
platformer and well, I don't think we've had enough Sonic on
33:46
on our podcast, so. Yeah, we've only done.
33:49
Was it Sonic 3 that I added into my list?
33:51
Yeah, we've not done a 3D Sonic and obviously we know that the
33:55
complications around that, that would be a really interesting
33:57
episode, so. I I've just got memories of you
34:00
playing Sonic Adventure 2 in my room in uni and just getting
34:04
fuming with the the pyramid level.
34:07
Isn't that cause or bridge? I can't remember.
34:10
It was Knuckles. It was Knuckles and yeah, that
34:13
game. It's just a great example of
34:15
something that's not aged particularly well with the
34:17
camera and that. Just hang out in the channel
34:20
garden. Yeah, yeah.
34:23
And it's a game that I used to love.
34:25
On the game please song adventure 2 battle.
34:30
I think in in in generations they really made that level as
34:34
well. The the famous city escapes so.
34:37
Yeah, yeah. With the song, Is it by Crush?
34:42
Escape from the City? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:45
It's great. That's that.
34:46
Game's got a great soundtrack. Live and learn Escape from the
34:50
City or City Escape. Or I might listen to that after
34:52
this actually. But we dug rest again so.
34:56
So I think with the right people helming the game I think a 3D
35:03
version could work. But I think they need to figure
35:05
3 things out. One is the look converting that
35:09
into three DI think they'd still need to keep that sort of pop up
35:13
book look yes, do that with a bit of a layered thing where Ari
35:17
is kind of the the foremost layer and then they do some sort
35:21
of trickery to make 2D elements look like a A3 dimensional pop
35:27
up book. And another element would be the
35:31
structure of it, as you say, would it be an open world or
35:34
would it be? I think I think it could work in
35:37
having like little areas from a hub where you unlock more as you
35:42
go along and I think that the third thing would be to figure
35:47
out what the gameplay would be it's like the first thing they
35:50
did with Mario 64 turning it 3D was perfect the jump and
35:56
because. Without that, it doesn't work.
35:57
It's nothing. Yeah, exactly.
35:59
Without, if they hadn't done that, if they hadn't done that
36:02
single exercise, that game would not have worked.
36:05
So they need to get that rock solid.
36:10
I'm I'm intrigued where Ori goes from this because obviously 2020
36:14
is is a long time ago and I wouldn't be surprised if we do
36:18
get another one within the next couple of years.
36:19
And I'd like to see one, to be honest, because I'm not I'm it's
36:24
not my favourite franchise ever, but I think it's a nice little
36:27
one that yeah, that Microsoft has in its back pocket.
36:32
OK, Does Ori and the Blind Forest deserve to be on the Open
36:39
Critic Top 100 list? No, I don't think so.
36:43
I enjoyed it and I think it was fine.
36:46
It was enjoyable, but I wouldn't put it in a list of the top 100
36:49
games of all time. And it'll be interesting to do a
36:53
comparison as to where the Blind Forest is on the Metacritic
36:56
list. I mean, since we did one of the
36:59
Wisps, that's probably moved down slightly with new games
37:02
coming into the top 100 on Metacritic.
37:05
But does it? Not as much as the open critic
37:06
list though, does it? Does it not?
37:08
No, the Metacritic list is pretty pretty steady with the
37:13
exception of maybe you'll get one or two games a year, Whereas
37:16
the open critic list, I looked again today and there's probably
37:20
3 or 4 new games in there since I last looked about three months
37:23
ago. OK, I mean, I'm currently doing
37:27
a little search now to see where what the comparison is.
37:31
One of the wisps and is it? Yeah.
37:35
So where did you say this one comes in #80 something?
37:38
84 and I think Will of the West is 70 something, or maybe even
37:42
60. Something look now, but no, I I
37:46
probably wouldn't say that I put it in in the top.
37:49
I think I'm with you. It is, it's great and I enjoyed
37:52
it, but this isn't what on earth it's like the seance of Blake
37:57
Manor. Yeah, I was looking at that
37:59
earlier as well as I was seeing how long that was.
38:02
Here we go, Hollow Knight. Silk Song comes in at 62.
38:06
Here we go, Ori in the Will of the Whiffs.
38:07
Yeah, you're right, 72 tents and trees.
38:12
There are some weird games on Trails.
38:14
In the. Sky first chapter.
38:15
I will say I I think I prefer the open critic list to the
38:21
Metacritic list because it is. So dynamic, yeah.
38:25
There's so much weird stuff that comes on there.
38:27
We've got, it's always changing and it just feels like the
38:32
selection is. Whereas do you remember we had
38:34
some really balance with the Metacritic list, which we didn't
38:36
do a very good job of the lengths of the games.
38:39
Whereas here, yeah, we do have to do it to a degree, but
38:42
there's so much coming in and out, just like random indie
38:45
games that yeah, it's just a lot more fresh.
38:48
Yeah, yeah, it's varied, as is our podcast.
38:57
Yes, varied, inconsistent rambling and occasionally OK to
39:02
listen to, but. We're still here.
39:05
But we are still we're still trudging away.
39:09
So coming up. So I I have been playing Persona
39:16
3 at the background. But as you know, that game is is
39:18
a bloody massive game and it is and it takes its time getting
39:23
going as well, which is is finally started to get going a
39:26
bit for me. How many hours?
39:27
Are you into it? I reckon between 10 and 15,
39:32
which means it's still got, yeah, still got a long way to go
39:35
with that. Yeah.
39:36
So. Maybe we don't do that one next.
39:39
No, we're not. We're not.
39:40
What we're doing next is APS 4 game that was released by Sony
39:47
called Dreams and. Yeah, this is the one where you
39:52
can build your own worlds and stuff, isn't it?
39:53
Yes. I've been wanting to play this
39:55
game for quite a while because I've been intrigued by it.
39:58
Yeah, Dreams is, is, is basically a creative suite for
40:02
you to create your own games. And some of the stuff that
40:06
people have done with Dreams is. Mind blowing.
40:10
So I think that'll be an interesting episode to do next.
40:15
So yeah, we're going to do Dreams next.
40:17
That's next time. Excellent.
40:20
Well, yes, I didn't know that. So that's the first time I'm
40:24
hearing of it too. I think that'll be an
40:25
interesting episode. Like I said, I don't know much
40:27
about it. So yeah, I mean, as as per
40:31
usual, if if you've liked this episode, please feel free to
40:34
give us a follow or a like or a subscription wherever it is you
40:37
listen to us. It's always massively
40:39
appreciated. You can reach out to us via
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shoot us a message, usually via Instagram.
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And one more shameless plug, if you are a follower on Instagram
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Really. That's right for the for the
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knee blowout I better get. Photos and videos.
41:08
That's right. But yeah, I am running.
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Generously. Please give generously for my
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knee reconstruction surgery. But no, I'm running the London
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had to use in the past. They do a lot of amazing work.
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Anyone that's from the Worcester area will probably know of them.
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Yeah, I've got about £1900 left to raise, so I'm going to ramp
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Appreciate this indeed, even if it's your share, but you can
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42:00
So yes, little plug there, but it's for a good course.
42:03
So I I don't mind. But yeah, that is everything
42:08
from me for this week until we come back with some, maybe some
42:13
nightmares in dreams, who knows? Yes, yes.
42:16
Never. Know anything else from you for
42:18
today? Nope, nothing.
42:20
Lovely. Well, we will.
42:21
We'll see you next time for dreams.
42:23
And in the meantime, take care, Cheerio.
42:25
See you on the next one.