Latest / Becoming / Greg Matsen: What It Really Means to Be a Man of God

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Greg Matsen: What It Really Means to Be a Man of God · Becoming

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Every time I talk about Jesus, I lose people all
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: the time. I think our generations have been taught to
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: be people pleasers. If we think about the difference between
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: what a nice guy is and a kind man, I
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: look at those as two very different things. A people
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: pleaser usually does it out of his own self-interest or
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: for fear of what people will think of him. A
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: kind man, he will stand up for truth, even when
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: it's uncomfortable. He'll stand up for what matters. I'm a
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: recovering people pleaser. I hate to admit that. I have
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: gone the majority of my life as someone who is
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: trying to hide from conflict or someone who is trying
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: to want people to like me. You know, one of
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: the reasons I share my faith online is not everybody
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: loves that. It doesn't necessarily get me more followers or
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: anything like that. But I know that that's what I
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: believe in. That's what I stand for. I have to.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I feel compelled to try and speak what I feel
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: like has been given to me.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: In this episode, we bring on Bubba Page, who made
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: an appearance on The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. He
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: was in a speed dating scene with Taylor, Frankie, Paul.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: We also talk about masculinity and the role of men
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: in the church in an environment and a culture where
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: things are shifting very quickly against men. All right, now
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: walk me through how in the world you ended up
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: as a guest or invitee on to The Secret Lives
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: of Mormon Wives.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: You know, it shocked me just as much as anybody else.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: The reality was I had just done a podcast about
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: a week before with a dating podcast, and they were
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: hosting a speed dating event, which I'll be honest, I'm
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: not a speed dating guy. I've never done it before.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: I haven't done it since. And when she reached out,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: she said, look, Baba, would you please come and support?
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: We need another guy to come. There's a group that's
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: And I was like, no, that's not. And she asked again.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: And I was like, you know what? I'll come. I'll
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: come support you. I've never done this before. Why now?
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: And it was a week when I didn't have my kids.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: We have 50-50 custody. And for those who are watching,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I was divorced about a year and a half ago.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I grew up with that.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And so I didn't have my kids. And I
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: was like, OK, you know what? Let's do it. What
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  Speaker 1: could it hurt? She said, you do have to sign
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: a waiver because there's going to be people recording.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: And I was like, well, who?
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: She says, well, we can't tell you who's coming. That's
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: part of the rules with the production companies and whatnot.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, look, I've done little things
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: like this on camera before, but I had no idea
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: what would be going on. So I get to the event.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: And it's great. It's casual. There's, you know, let's say
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: 20 of us or whatnot. And we're just getting to
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: know each other. And about a half hour into this
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: whole thing, the TV crews starts to like pour in.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: And that's when Good old Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: It's a serious, yeah.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, three of the actresses come in, and I call
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: them actresses because reality TV is not real. I hope
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: anyone who's watching this knows that. It's not that it's
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: completely and fully scripted, but everything was planned, and they
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: knew exactly what was going on. I think they even
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: knew what angle they were going to take when going
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: to this type of an event. Mm-hmm. Anyway, so I
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: had never seen the show, still haven't seen the show,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: but I did know who they were through social media. Anyway,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: you know what? I was able to sit down and
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: we did the whole speed dating thing. And so the
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: men moved around, the women stayed at their table, and
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: we went ahead and had five minutes with each person.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: You know, look, I am in my 40s, and dating
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: in my 40s is a whole different ballgame than when
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I was in my 20s. And so- I want to
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: talk about that too, by the way. We can talk
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: about that because it's an interesting ballgame. And this was
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: a unique experience to be able to get to know
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: people in a pretty quick way. They had different games
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: on the tables that you could do to like break
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  Speaker 1: the ice. I didn't touch any of the games of
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: any of the tables because I just wanted to dive
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: right into questions to get to know these people. And
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: so when I was sitting there with Taylor Frankie Paul,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: and look, my clip on the show is so short.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: We had a great conversation. Actually, I just asked her
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: straight out. I said, how are you healing from everything
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: that you've been through? Because I knew enough context from
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: social media to know, you know, how are you? She's
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: been through a lot.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Is this before or after the leak of the video?
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, this is way before. We filmed in like October,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: maybe even September. It was like September, October timeframe. And
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: because two weeks after the speed dating event, I got
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: reached out to by two separate casting companies for the Bachelorette.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: So they had not, they had not accumulated all of
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: the men that they wanted for the Bachelorette for Taylor,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Frankie Paul. And so they had both reached out. I
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: posted about it. It's on my, it's on my Instagram
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: at Bubba page with the screenshots of these two different
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: casting companies saying, Hey, we've seen your profile. You seem
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: like you'd be a great fit. Would you be interested?
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  Speaker 1: And so it's funny because I took a phone call
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: with them to understand what this would look like. And
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: they said, look, you'd need to be away from your
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: family for three months. I was like, okay, that's never
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: going to happen. Look, I'm a dad with eight kids.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to be away from them for three months.
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  Speaker 1: That's insane. So because I said, well, if anything like
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: this were to happen, I'd be able to either fly
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: them to me or I could go to them in between.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: And they were like, no. And so that, that was
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: already no go. And then obviously I, my background and
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: if anybody's followed me for any timeframe, um, look, Taylor, Frankie, Paul,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: she was a sweet person. We ended up having a
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: great conversation and, uh, and we did, we, we were
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: able to talk a little bit deeper about, you know,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: what healing looked like. Um, but our lifestyles are obviously
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: very different and our values are different and our life
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: choices are different. And so, um, it wasn't a fit
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: for me to choose to go on, on that show.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: as a contestant to be somebody who, because.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: You're not pursuing what you're wanting to pursue.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: It would be very inauthentic for me to go on
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: that show. Although I have to be honest, there was.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: An experience though, bubble. What did I mean to go on?
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Even if you know, you're acting through the whole thing.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I did this.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe at the same time, you feel like kind.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Of like, So look, I, I don't, I don't really,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I don't support the show. Like I just don't believe
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: in its context. I don't believe in the sexual sexuality
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: that it goes into. I don't, I just don't, it's
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: not my type of show. It's not my cup of tea,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: but there was a split second where I thought to myself,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: could I be a missionary? Could I go there and
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  Speaker 1: be a real Mormon guy who's trying his best to
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  Speaker 1: live the standards of, And actually be someone that maybe
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: could be an example. And that was quickly overrun by,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I have no control over the editing. I have no
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: control over how they're going to perceive or even take
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: my words and splice and cut and whatever. And that
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: to me felt like a danger zone, like red flags.
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  Speaker 1: And so I declined. I didn't go through with anything.
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  Speaker 1: And it wasn't for me.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, who are you going to be publicly
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  Speaker 2: after that? It's whatever the perception is from the show.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: And you don't get to control that, right? So luckily,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: I have me online. I'm the same online as I
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  Speaker 1: am in person. There is no difference when I'm sharing
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  Speaker 1: on social media. Look, I've been online. My ex-wife and
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: I were online for over a decade. And so we've
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: worked through and with and as influencers online. I'm an
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: entrepreneur first. That's my career as an entrepreneur and now
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: an investor into startups. An influencer comes secondary, tertiary, whatever
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: you want to call it. I do know that world very,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: very well. I've worked with a lot of people in
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: that world and even been on reality shows before. You
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: have to be very careful because as the actor, you
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: have zero control. over what they say and how they're
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  Speaker 1: going to say it and how they influence and splice
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  Speaker 1: and cut. So, so please anyone who's, who's been watching
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  Speaker 1: reality shows, please know they are not real. Um, they
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: have a lot of pieces that are scripted. They have
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  Speaker 1: a very specific angle because they need to make money
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  Speaker 1: by getting views. So they're going to do get views
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: by making it as wild and as crazy as possible. Um,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: and it's, uh, and so just know anyone that's out
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: there that's, But here's one thing I wanted to share.
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  Speaker 1: So as I'm having this conversation, I did ask her
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  Speaker 1: how many kids she thought I had. And she said, oh,
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  Speaker 1: probably four. And I said, I do have four girls.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: And then she said, oh, okay, then you have five.
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  Speaker 1: And I said, I have four boys. And she kind
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: of stepped back. Oh, my gosh, you have eight. And
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I've got eight from one wife. uh,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: you know, married almost 18 years and, uh, it's a
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: beautiful chaos. I love it. I mean, these kids, it's everything.
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  Speaker 1: Fatherhood is one of the most beautiful divine gifts that's
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  Speaker 1: ever been given to, to me. I mean, and motherhood
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  Speaker 1: fatherhood and motherhood, obviously I'm.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Speaking from perspective.
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  Speaker 1: Um, it's such a beautiful divine gift. So, but as
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  Speaker 1: I'm having this conversation with, with Taylor Frankie, Paul, um,
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  Speaker 1: And I wrote this in my post well before any
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: of the things came out in the videos and whatnot.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: She was just hurting. I could just feel through her eyes.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: It's almost like I was given a glimpse into her
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: soul for just a minute. And I just had compassion.
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  Speaker 1: I just felt sad. I felt sad. sad. It was
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: almost like a little girl who was lost, didn't know
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: where to find peace and joy. And that there was
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: so many things that had gone on in her life
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and she didn't know exactly what to do, how to
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: do and be, that she was lost. And so I
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: did have compassion for her. And so when I wrote
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: that in my post, even though I don't, it wasn't
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: the right, it wasn't right for me to go on
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: and be a contestant for her on that show. That
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: wasn't a thing for me, but I did have compassion
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: because when you're put in the spotlight like that, and
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: you've made some unique choices that maybe you're not proud of,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: it's going to be really hard. And so anyway, it
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: was just one of those things that I felt, I
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: felt like I was given a glimpse maybe not everybody
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: has had a chance to see when they're just looking
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: at online stuff.
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  Speaker 2: You say you don't support the show, nor do I,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: but sometimes I feel that there's this idea of perception of,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: let's say, of the church that is put out there.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: And it's like, if you put hashtag Mormon on anything,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: you're going to get more views right Right. And it's
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: but but it's unfortunately, it's not about our our doctrine
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: or what the church does. It's about pop culture.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: But somehow Mormons are in the midst of right in
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: the middle of the heart of pop culture right now.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Do you I remember going back and seeing the Book
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: of Mormon musical and at the time. I remember a
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: family member saying this is the worst thing ever. And
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: they're just so mad at it. And, and, and, and
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: I thought, you know what, this is a great opportunity
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: for the church because we're, we're actually being brought into
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: pop culture and into the discussion to some degree. And
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: our reaction of course was beautiful. You know, you've seen
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: the musical now read the book was, it was an,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: it was an amazing response to that. Right. And so there,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: it did have some discussion, you know, going on. And
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: it was back when Mitt Romney was running too. So
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: there was kind of a Mormon moment, but, uh, What
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: are your thoughts on that? I mean, is any publicity
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: good publicity, even if it's bad? Does it center people
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: into saying, okay, well, this is kind of gross, but
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: what are those Mormons about? Do I need to want
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: to look into that a little bit more? And is
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: there a net positive that comes out of this? Or
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: is there at some point where you have all of
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: these streaming shows that are negative on Mormonism on the church?
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Is there a point where you would get to where
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: it's just overwhelming and it can't be good?
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: You know what? As an entrepreneur and as an investor,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: PR is PR. And so I do agree with the
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: statement that even if it's bad PR, it's still PR.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: And it depends on what you do with that PR
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: that you can have an incredible impact for good. And look,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: having a Mormon moment, right? The Church of Jesus Christ
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: of Latter-day Saints right now is in the spotlight constantly.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: And obviously, that can be hard. That can be hard
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: to deal with. And not a lot of people know
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: what to do or to say. And I've never even
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: seen the play, the Broadway play. And yet, having a
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: spotlight shown on something that I hold near and dear
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: to my heart, even when it's in a negative light,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: it brings up questions. Because look, I grew up in
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: San Francisco, the Bay Area. And so I had a
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: lot of non-member friends, not members of the Church of
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And so they know me.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: They know who I am. And the people who I've
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: been neighbors with for the last two decades or three decades,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: they know me and my family. They know my children.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: We played on the same sports teams. And we've had
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: activities together. I've had them over for swim parties and barbecues.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: They know who I am. And so when they see
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: something that's so not, representative of our faith, I think
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are able to distinguish and say, okay,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: that's not the Mormons that I know, you know, because
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: I know these people who are kind, who are service oriented,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: who are all about their families, who try to hold
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: their families together at all costs, you know, who are
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: looking to do good and who are genuinely nice and
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: happy people who still have trials and challenges, just like
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: anyone else. But they've treated me as a neighbor or
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: as a coach or as they've treated me kindly and
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: they've dealt with me honestly. Now, the law of large
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: numbers is going to say that there are going to
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: be members of any religious organization who are going to
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: do negative things. and who are going to go to jail,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: or who weren't honest, or who weren't kind. That's just
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: the reality of the world. And I do have a
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: sense that as we get more and more focus on
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: the church as a whole, there will have more negative
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: things come to light, because we are a global organization,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: and we have multi-millions of members. Are we getting close
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: to 7 to 18 million members around the world? Now,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: in the percentage... basis, we're still a tiny organization compared
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: to other religions in the, in the world. But, um,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: but knowing that there are millions and millions of members,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: there is going to be more and more things that
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: come to light that are, that I know I'm not
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: going to be proud of that. We're done by members
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: of this, uh, of, of the church of Jesus Christ
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: of Latter-day Saints. And I think I I'm almost, I,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: this is my feeling and maybe I'll regret sharing this,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: but I have a feeling that as we are in
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: the last days, I truly believe we are in the
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: last days. The signs of the times are here. I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: believe that we are living what the prophets have prophesied
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: right now. And that it is time for us to
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: prepare physically and spiritually and emotionally. And that we are
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: in this moment in time where we will be tested.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: We will be tested to our absolute limits. And as
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: we've been told, there is no standing on the fence anymore.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: You are on one side or you are on the other.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: If you're standing in the middle, you are going to
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: be pushed one way or another. And we need to
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: make that choice of whose side are we on. Now,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that we are at war with other people.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I'm not a supporter of that. We can be kind
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: and loving and love our neighbors as ourselves all across
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: the world. But from an ideology standpoint, what we believe
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: and what we stand for What we stand for has
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: to come out now. And so I have felt compelled
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: to share my faith online. And I know that my
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: audience is not primarily Mormon. They're not of my faith.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: But we believe in Jesus Christ. We believe in the
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: atonement of our Savior and that He is the Savior
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: of all mankind, that He is the only way that
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: we can make it back to the Father. And we
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: agree upon those sentiments, those pieces of our faith. even
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: if we don't go to the same church every Sunday,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: which is totally fine. And so I believe, though, my
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: warning that I feel is that members of the Church
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are going to be
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: faced with incredible, incredible challenges. And I believe that the
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: things that will come out in the future days, the
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: coming days, will rock our world so, so much that
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: when it may be people in the church that we
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: look up to, that we have revered, that we respect,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: that have maybe not done things that were appropriate in
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: the past. And it comes out. And I think we
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: have to be so rock solid in our faith in
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Jesus and in the gospel of Jesus Christ and not
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: in man, that when those things come to light, potentially,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: that we are not shaken out of our faith. I
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: have a sense that he's trying to prepare us, he,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: the prophets, the apostles, they're trying to tell us to
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: hear him. Because some of the people that we've worked
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: with or that we look to or that we hear from,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: maybe they're not living the lives that we think. And
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: when those things come to bear, we need to be
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: prepared to hold our faith in Jesus and in the
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: gospel of Jesus and not in the men or women
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: who are... we're always there. Now, look, I believe in
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: a prophet of God. I believe in the apostles. And
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I believe that we are led and guided by Jesus
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Christ through these people. I am 100% a supporter and
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: a believer in that. I also know that Judas was also,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: he did not fulfill his, maybe he did. Maybe that
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: was his exact mission that he was supposed to fulfill
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: on this earth. But I think there are things in
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: the scriptures that are preparing us for the last days
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: that we need to be aware of. And again, I
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: may regret saying this, but I know that I'm trying
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: to build my faith in him who is mighty to save.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: And that is Jesus. And I look to our prophet
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: and our apostles as leaders and as guides, and they
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: point us to Jesus as that's their ultimate, that's their
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: ultimate goal is for us to have that full salvation
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: and through his sacrifice. Anyway, hopefully I didn't cross too many.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: No, that's fine. I mean, I think that's called critical
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: thinking and that's okay. So it's interesting because I've had
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: this discussion lately a lot with individuals about that exact thing.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: You know, I just did an episode, in fact, it
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: was with Kurt on, on, on prophetic revelation versus individual revelation, right?
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Is there a conflict? And what I always come back
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: to is, you know, when Jesus says the Sabbath was
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: created for man, Man was not created for the Sabbath, right?
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: And so sometimes we take the church and it becomes
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: what we worship, right? It becomes what we trust in most,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: more than God himself, because we haven't built maybe that
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: relationship with God as we should. And so when we
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: do that, we all of a sudden, then things can
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: fall down and break apart a lot easier when something
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: does go wrong, as you said. or a policy that
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: comes out that you don't agree with or whatever. A
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: talk at general conference is completely opposite of what you expected. And,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: and so, but I understand also that there's a fine
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: line that is there because if you push that too hard,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden you move over, you can
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: move to a spectrum on the side of the spectrum
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: that says, well, I don't even need organized religion. I've
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: got a direct relationship with God. I've got the scriptures
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: and so I'm good to go. And so finding that
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: balance in there, I think is really important, but I
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: think you have to do it. I think that otherwise
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: you are setting yourself up for failure if your primary
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: trust is in the church and not in God.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: There is a wrestle that we all must have. And
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: that wrestle is with God. And we must wrestle and
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: we must, we have to have our own conviction, our
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: own conversions. And look, I was born into this gospel.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: I've served a mission and loved it. I was in
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Southern Brazil, Porto Alegre, the happy port. And I absolutely
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: loved my experience. And I fulfilled callings. But I didn't
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: have a, in my opinion, and I'm sure I have
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: more levels of conversion, but I didn't feel like I
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: had the depth of conversion until 2016. I mean, that's
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: only a decade ago. And I remember I had to
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: shut down one of my businesses and it was just, oh,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: it was devastating to me because that was my identity
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: was as an entrepreneur. And oh my gosh. And so
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: I started going to the temple every week. I just,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: everybody says it works miracles. It says that it changes
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: your life. And I hadn't had that experience yet. And
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: so I started going because one, I lived very close
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and I could go. And, and so I, And I
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: had just shut down that business and I was at home.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I was able to be with the kids and family
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: a lot more. And as I went, I remember feeling peace,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: but there was no miraculous experience. And I would go
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: week after week, after week, after week. And it wasn't
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: until the 50th time, literally a year of going every
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: week to where the windows of heaven were open for
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: And it was such an experience that I cannot deny
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: the power of heaven that came and distilled into my soul.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: That it was as if God needed me to show
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: that I was willing to make that sacrifice. Just a
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: simple sacrifice of a couple hours a week of outside
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: of normal Sunday worship that I would go into the
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: house of the Lord. And that I would try to
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: prove that I had that faith. And I know he
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: loves me whether I do bad things or good things.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: He loves everyone. But I felt like to me, I
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: was meant to go through that experience in order to
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: receive the type of conviction that I needed for my future.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: And what was fascinating is that as I gained a
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: much deeper testimony of the temple, of one Jesus, but
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: then of his house, his holy house, it wasn't... that
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I should go to the temple anymore. It was that
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I needed, I needed that extra worship time. I needed to,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: to feel and remember the covenants, the two way promise
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: that I had made with God. I needed that every
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: week of my life because I felt what it was
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: like without it. And when I felt the true depth
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: that I hadn't felt before, it changed my life forever.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: And I make a promise to anyone who's out there
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: that if you're willing and you're listening here and you're saying, look,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I don't really love it. I haven't had this experience
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: in the temple. I want you to try God. I
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: want you to, in a very respectful, humble way, test
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: God's promises. And if you go with a sincere heart,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: with a repentant heart, knowing that he can speak to you,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: that he can inspire your heart, that he can change you.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: the inner being who you are, that you will find
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: that as you give the time and the sacrifice that
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: he's willing. Look, he doesn't need my house. He doesn't
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: need my money. He doesn't need, he needs me in
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: my heart. He needs my whole soul. That's what he's
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: asking of me. That's how I feel. And I still
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: pay tithing even though he doesn't need the money. But
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I know it's a commandment of God. And if I
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: obey his commandments, then all blessings are predicated upon obedience
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: to Allah. And I hope that I can get to
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: a point where I don't just obey a commandment because
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I fear God. I fear the repercussions.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: The consequences.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: I hope I get to the level. To me, I
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: see three levels. Fear is why we obey sometimes. I
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: hope we can graduate to obeying because of we know
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: we'll receive blessings. And to me, tithing is, I just
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: know that I'll receive blessings when I do tithing. I
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: hope though that I get to the third level, which
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: is that I obey because I just love God, that
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: I love Jesus Christ. And that's why I obey. And
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not there yet. I do a lot because I'm
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: still afraid or because I know I'll get the blessings.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: But I'm working, I'm trying to work towards because it's
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: out of the love that I have for him. that
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I want to obey. And when I make mistakes, I
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: come to Him and ask for forgiveness because I need
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: to feel His love again. And to me, when the
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Spirit of God doesn't rest in me because I made
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: a choice that was not optimal, I need that back
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: in my life as quickly as possible. Look, with eight
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: kids and with multiple businesses and with making life choices
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I feel like I can't do that without his guidance.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: And if I'm making choices that are contrary to his will,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: I won't have his guidance. And in a coming day,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: we won't be able to survive spiritually without the constant
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: guidance of the Holy Ghost. This is what we've been told.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: And I truly believe that angels, as the Doctrine and
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Covenants say, angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: They speak by the power of the Holy Ghost. And
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: by the Holy Ghost, we can know the truth of
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: all things. And I believe when I receive some of
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: the downloads or words that come into my mind and
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: my heart, that these are my beloved ancestors who love me,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: who can see me from the other side, who are
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: right here in this room with me trying to help
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: guide me. And they're speaking through the power of the
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Holy Ghost. And I know I'm probably on a little
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: bit of a soapbox right now, but man, I just feel,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I feel it in my heart that if you're struggling
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: and listening to this, where you've had where you've had
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: feelings in your heart at one point, but maybe they've
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: gone away. Let's do a self audit. Are we doing
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: the simple things that God's asked us to do? Are
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: we reading? Are we studying? Not just reading. Are we
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: studying the scriptures? His words and truth will come and
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: be answers to your prayers. Are you finding the depth
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: of sincerity in your prayers where you're asking forgiveness on
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: an everyday basis? Because we all make mistakes. We all
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: have thoughts that could be better. That can be more optimal.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Are we trying to find time to worship? Right. Are
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: we treating our others around us with kindness and with love?
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Are we able to forgive those who have hurt us
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: the most? Man, that's been so hard.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: That's a tough one.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: That has been so hard for me. And, um, Sorry,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I'm emotional right now. I just, this piece of forgiveness
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: is like to me like an onion. And an onion
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: has many, many layers. And I look at this where
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: I have it in my heart to be able to forgive.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: But then it's only one layer and I get to
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: another layer and I feel the pains. Maybe a trigger
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: or something that alerts my body that I have more
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: that I need healing from. So I turn to the
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Savior and I try to put whatever that pain or
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: hurt onto the altar, the altar of sacrifice. I know
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: that he can take that pain from me. And even
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: though I've done this multiple times, it to me is
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: almost like just a little bit of a layer. And
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: I know Christ can heal all wounds. He is the
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: master healer. And yet I know I'm probably thick-skulled enough.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: that it's taking me multiple, multiple times to get deeper
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: and deeper into the, into the depth of my soul
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to where he can cleanse even the, the darkest, deepest
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: things that are in me. And, uh, oh man, um,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: You had mentioned we're going to talk about masculinity. So
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to go for it. I feel like
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: on this vein, men and women who are listening, we
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: all have divine masculine and divine feminine within us. We
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: were created by a heavenly father and a heavenly mother.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: We have those pieces within us. And I believe that
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: we were created as men and as women completely on
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: purpose and created even in the spiritual realms as a
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: man or as a woman. That there was never any
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: question whether or not we were a man or a woman.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: And I have behind me the proclamation of the family.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: And I put it here on every podcast. I put
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: it here on every Zoom video I have because this
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: is where I find value. But when we're talking about
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: divine masculine, this is our example. Jesus is the example
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: of divine masculine. He can be the type of man
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: when the woman is caught in adultery, where he's drying
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: in the dirt or the sand or wherever it was,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: completely calm. While the people around him in circle with
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: stones in their hand are yelling and cursing most likely
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: at this woman and at him. What are you going
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: to do? And he is calm. He's collected. He's grounded.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: And he's able to respond in a way that the
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: entire group, this is how I envision it, goes silent
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: and walk away. And then he doesn't agree with the sin.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: And he tells her not to do it again. But
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: he can see that she has so much more. to
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: her than what that one thing was. And sometimes I
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: think as men, especially when we're in a romantic relationship,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: an extended romantic relationship in a marriage, especially one that
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: you've been sealed, and over time and decades, sometimes when
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: your spouse comes to you full of emotion, and some
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: of that motion is targeted at you, that I know
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: when we get defensive, And when we react, that that
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: is not the divine masculine speaking. But if we are
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: able to stay grounded, stay grounded, even when those attacks
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: or whatnot are coming, that we may be able to
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: respond in a grounded masculine way. And if we need to,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: you can set boundaries with what's appropriate or not. If,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: you know, let's say voices are raised. I've now learned
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: that I can't control the other person, but I'm able
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: to walk away and say when we can have a
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: discussion without raising our voices, I'm happy to have this
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: discussion again. That's a boundary that I'm able to set.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: And when that person is ready and if they're willing,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: then we can have that adult discussion. But if I
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: freak out and react because I get triggered, I have
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: now stepped out of the masculinity And have formulated more
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: into an emotional being at that state. And there was
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: somebody that taught me, I feel like the feminine is
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: more like water. It's flowing and it's beautiful. And can
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: be calm like a pond. Or it can be a
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: raging thunderstorm. And there can be waves crashing. And it
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: can be an extremely hard day. But as men, as
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: the masculine man we need to be, we need to
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: be a bold. built and carved out of stone or
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: out of wood that is solid and secure, that water
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: has a place for that emotion.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: A masculine containment.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: A masculine containment, exactly. And when we can contain, not control,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: not be above, this is not what masculine is, but
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: to be able to contain and hold safe space For that,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: that's when I would, you know, that I can see
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: is the true feminine can find safety. And when there's
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: safety and security, that's when connection, vulnerability can live. And,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: you know, I wish, I wish I would have known
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: these things five years ago, 10 years ago. I wish
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: that I would have been taught. And this is a
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: wrestle I've had with God. I was frustrated when I
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: started to learn some of these things about healing the
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: inner wounds that we have, of combining the atonement of
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ with the psychological components of, you know, maybe
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I do have some things of my childhood or my
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: past that I haven't healed from yet. And that's creating
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: more of a triggered response. And when we can find
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: a way to heal deeply inside and know that are
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: we prone to more of an anxious attachment or more
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: of an avoidant attachment, how can we get to become
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: more of a securely attached individual?
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I think that something that's really important with this is,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: you know, Marriage is such a laboratory of life, right?
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: It is such a laboratory. Family as a whole is
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: a laboratory. We step into these laboratories unready, not really
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: understanding what is in me, but that's the process. That's
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: the only way it works. Nobody knows. You get married
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: and you have zero experience at it, you know, or
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: you have kids. You've never had kids before. You're zero experience, right?
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: It's nice to have others that have gone through this,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: parents and others, et cetera, if you listen to them.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: But It's a process of growth where we have to
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: step in with faith. There's just no other way around that.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: But one thing that you're describing here is the only thing,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: the reason I think sometimes we have issues with marital
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: issues is because it's so easy to blame the other person.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: It's so easy to blame the other person. And here's
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: the thing. You might be right. You might not, but
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: you might be right. But you have zero control over that.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. How many fingers are pointing back at you, right?
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You don't have any control over that. So the
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: question then becomes, well, what do you have control over?
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: What you have control over is yourself.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: And so what can I do? What can I change?
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: And maybe there's nothing. It's possible.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: You may have a- We all have things we can change.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: But I'm saying that there might be not anything that
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: is going to help in certain circumstances. That's true. But still,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: moving from look what she did or look what he
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: did or he's like this or she's like this to
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: I can only control myself, I think is a major
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: shift in a paradigm of move that allows you to say,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: I don't have control over this person. And my relationship
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: and my communication with him or her has got to
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: be based on what I can control. That's all I
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: can do. Now, can I influence? Yes. Can I persuade? Yes.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: But it's still focused on what can you do? And
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: it always is. And we live in a world where
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I think I have this concept called Talos versus the oppressors,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: but it's whenever we look at, hey, this is the
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: problem over here, or they're the problem, or that group's
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: the problem, or he or she is the problem, and
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: we live that way primarily, and our focus is on that,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: it takes away from the entire gospel that we believe in,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: the worldview that we have that is, this is about
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: who I am becoming. How do I become, what do
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: I need to change? How do I repent? How do
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: I focus on, on being a better person?
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: And so that conflict is, is always in place. I
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: liked your, my, my listeners will have a little, I
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: would have had a little bit of a grin when
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: you talked about the onion. I talked about the onion
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: all the time.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Shrek, Shrek has an onion, right? He talks about, you know,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: ogres are like an onion. So peel one back. And,
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: but anyway, it's, I think that we need to, in
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: that masculine energy, focus on something that has a duality.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: It can't be one-sided. And the way I like to
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: describe it is as a servant king. You do need
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: to lead. You do need to lead. I believe that
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: that is part of the family proclamation. I think that
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: that is your responsibility. If you pay attention to the initiatories,
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: it's not the same as the women's. And there's a
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: reason for that. And so you are to lead, but
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: leading doesn't mean dominating. Leading means taking on the responsibility
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: of a wife and children and the world around you.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: And it's encapsulated in King Benjamin's speech, which is a
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: coronation speech for his son. And so anyway, I think
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: you're right. I think it's, you gotta be able to
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: focus on, on, on what you can control.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: A hundred percent. And then I, if you think about
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: relationships as a way that it's part of God's plan,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: men and women are not meant to be alone and,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: and to be able to have that equal partner that
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: you're working towards the same goals is the ideal scenario, right? That, that,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: as part of God's plan to perfect us and to
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: help us to create salvation as an individual, you know,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Dallin H. Oaks, individual, and exaltation as a familial, you know, experience,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: that we are going to be tested to our absolute
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: core within that marital relationship, typically. And I believe now
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: that that is absolutely part of God's plan. that there
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: are going to be insecurities, weaknesses of ours that will
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: be pointed out, that will be touched upon, that you'll
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: have wounds that are open, nerves showing, and that that
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: person will be touching those things. Because as we, some
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: people call it being triggered or whatnot, if you're triggered,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: to me, all it is is a sign that there's
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: something that you need to work on. So if you
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: can recognize when your chest starts to tighten and your fight, flight, freeze,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: fawn mode kicks in, that you look back and say, okay,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: why did that happen? What was being said or done
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: or what was creating that experience? And then what does
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: that mean I need to heal within me? Because as
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: we look at these, now, please, by all means, any
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: type of abusive relationship or things like that's a completely
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: different ballgame. I need to put that caveat on here
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: because I know that's different. But in these relationships where
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: you're being tested and tried with each other in unique
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: ways where that may be part of God's plans. for
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: you to be have to go through a broken heart
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: and a contrite spirit to be able to hear his
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: words deeper and have a deeper conviction of faith. You
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: may have to trust wholly in him. I think that's
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: the only way every human has to go through what
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I would, you know, what we call maybe Abrahamic trials.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: We have to, that's part of our mission on this
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: earth is that we must trust go through these types
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: of experiences in order to become the type of person
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: we are meant to become. And that may mean a
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: death in the family. It may mean sickness. It may
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: mean health. It may mean relationship struggles. It may mean
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: financial struggles or work. It may mean mental struggles or physical,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: like God will give us what we need to become
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: the individual that he knows we can become. And I
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: know we've been promised that we'll never be given more
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: than we can handle, even when it feels like we
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: can't handle even when it feels like we're completely left
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: alone and that we don't feel like there's any glorious
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: light coming down from heaven and we're in the complete
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: utter abyss, that the Savior's arm is outstretched and that
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: it is our job to reach out. And I think
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: of Joseph when he's in the sacred grove and he's
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: being consumed by this evil, horrible, hellish darkness, this power
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: that was binding his tongue. And this type of an
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: experience where he called out, he had to find the
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: muster up the power and God will give us the
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: ability to muster up that power to get through any
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: of the challenges we face on this earth because he
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: knows we can. And that type of a mentality has
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: helped me a ton to get through the trials and challenges.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: And I know I'll have more. in the future. Even
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: though I feel like I've had Abrahamic trials, I know
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: I'll have more. And it's almost like an opportunity for
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: us to level up in our conviction, to level up
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: and double down, if you will, in our testimony and
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: faith in Jesus. And it's that Jacob's ladder of knowing
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: that we have this progression that we have to make
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: and opposition in all things will come. And so if
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: you go through something hellish, then you better believe it.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: If you can make it through with his light, that
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: there will be an amazing thing on the other side
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: of that. Or if you just had an amazing thing happen,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: you better be prepared because things are on the corner
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: because we must have those types of tests.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I've had those two and I appreciate them now.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I appreciate it at the time,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: but I appreciate them now looking back because they changed
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: me in a, in a very big way. And of
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: course they, they create a greater relationship with God. Back
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: to the masculinity. Uh, so today in the, our culture, it's, um, you,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: you have, and the stats show all of this, you know,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: men are struggling a lot more than they've ever struggled before.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: I think that they have lost identity. I think that
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: they have lost purpose. Part of that I think is
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: the fault of culture. Part of it is distraction and vice, uh,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: that is so easily accessible today. Um, But there is
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: also a sense of, to some degree, with some of
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: these men, there's a sense of victimhood. No, this is
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: what culture has made me. This is who I've become
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: because of culture. And therefore, again, the problem is out there.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: And you see this a lot in how there is
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: a behavior of people that begin to gravitate toward an
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Andrew Tate or a Nick Fuentes or these types of figures.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: And it.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Does turn into different types of masculinity, which is, again,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: pointing fingers at others instead of actually strengthening yourself at
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: that point. Do you see the same thing? And what
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: is the best way for someone who is struggling to
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: find a divine or gospel-centered masculinity and begin to implement it. Yeah.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Well, let's start with how, if you're struggling, how to
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: overcome those struggles, right? And then let's talk about the
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: examples of the world, you know, creating masculine figure. This
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: is going to sound so lame to everyone here, I'm sure,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: because the same answers you received in the primary program
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: when you were a little kid, study your scriptures, go
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: to the temple, go to church, fulfill your callings, fast
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: and do fast offerings, treat others with kindness. These small
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: and simple things are where great things can come to pass.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: And if you're dealing with the absolute depth of struggles,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: whether it's an addiction or whether it's anger or it's
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: whatever the vice is, distraction, these are the things that
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: you start with. If you're not doing these simple and
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: small things, you must start here. And so when you're
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: pleading with God on your knees in full sincerity of prayer,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: and you're telling him everything that's going on, he already knows,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: but it's our job to tell him all that's going on.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: This is where the heart can start to change. I mean,
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: this is all taught in the scriptures. Our hearts can
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: be changed. So if you have a heart that's full
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: of an addiction or distraction, and every day you're faced
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: with this thing that's creating problems in your relationship or
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: in your physical health or in your mental health, this
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: can be changed. Jesus is the master healer, and it
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: is through his atonement. Now, for me, I needed both
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: the spiritual atonement and the psychological understanding for me to
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: have the depth of healing So do you need practicality?
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: I need practicality. I've got to pull from that to
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: one way or another. I can live off that spiritual experience,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: but I need to see that in a practical way also.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: So the practicality for me, how it came was getting
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: to know myself and my own struggles and wounds. And
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: so there's a couple, there's a book that I would
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: highly recommend called Attached. Attached is all about attachment styles.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: And it will help you to, this is non-religious, it'll
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: help you to understand, are you more of an anxious
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: attachment person, avoidant, and how can we get to be
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: more secure? Now, I believe somebody who is absolutely rock
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: solid in their faith and their foundation in Jesus we'll
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: have a more secure relationship. But because of our upbringing
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: and experiences of the past, even if you weren't fully
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: big T traumatized, but maybe little T traumas that have
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: created some of these wounds that haven't been healed. So
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: a book, something like called Attached, there's another one called
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: How to Do the Work. Now they call it the
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: work because you're going inward and it sucks because you
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: have to look at yourself in a way that is ugly.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: You have to see the parts about you that are
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: not pretty. And then you have to address them and
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: act upon them. Now in this process, I started working
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: with Christ-centered breath work. And I know that may sound
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: woo-woo for some, but when I went through these types
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: of processes and I was openly praising God during the
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: process in a prayer-like setting, I received download after download,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: six pages in my journal. As soon as I was
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: done with that type of breathwork, it was something I'd
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: never experienced before. It was Christ-centered, and it was focused
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: on Him as the healer. And I wasn't looking for
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: outside sources of healing because he is my healer. But
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: I needed, for me, I needed to experience something different
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: than what I was used to because I couldn't find
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: the depth of healing on my own with just the
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: scripture stuff that we talked about. And others might be
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: able to. I needed to understand my own psychology better.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: And maybe some of the reasons of why I did
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: what I did or thought the way I thought. And
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: that's where some of these books like Attached or How
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: to Do the Work and even one that's How to
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Become the Love You Seek. And then there's masculine books
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: that are not religious in any way. And you have
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: to take them with a grain of salt because they're
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: definitely not Christ-focused. But the Masculine in Relationship is a
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: book that I would recommend. Now, there are portions of
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: that that I don't agree with. But if you read
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: it with... a Christ centered lens and you can shelter
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: out the things you don't need. Um, and another one
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: is this the way of the superior man. Now, some
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: people who are listening may think I'm a horrible person
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: for recommended these books, but I needed the understanding as
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: a man from that perspective. And then I filtered out the, the,
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: the parts that obviously don't go along with my lifestyle
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: choices and obeying the commandments of God. Um, But there
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: was enough that taught me to see the world in
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: a different way and have compassion for others because I
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: can now see through some of the things that they've
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: been dealing with. And it gives me more empathy and
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: compassion for others. So anyway, that was a lot of
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: books and resources. But from a how you get over
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: these struggles, these are these baby step processes that I
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: think can really help. Men's groups, I would highly recommend. Um,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: it's the, one of the reasons why I want to, uh,
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: to start the fatherhood movement.com. Um, and I know Greg,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: you've got a men's group that people can come and
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: meet with you. And, and these men's groups are needed
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: in my opinion. Um, we need to have a brotherhood.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: We need to have a place, a safe place to
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: express some of those, those deepest emotions and some of
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: the things that are going through our hearts that, um,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: that only men can kind of help with in that regard.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: And in the priesthood, that's something that I would hope
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: would happen more, but I know that level of intimacy
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: and vulnerability is not currently in most, in most quorums. Right.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: And then if we were to step, so, so those
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: step-by-step pieces, and then now we look at the examples
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: of the world, the undertakes of the world. I think
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: the reason why they're gaining so much traction is because
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: they are speaking some level of truth and people can
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: feel truth. And so when truth is spoken, They can
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: feel some of it. Now, I'm saying some of it
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: because there's a bunch that's twisted.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: You're exactly right, I think. The reason they notice the
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: truth is because they are not getting it anywhere else.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: It's like, wait a minute, you are speaking something that
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: I'm not hearing out there. In fact, I'm hearing the
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: exact opposite. There's a recognition and awareness of this. It's like, oh,
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: I don't hear this anywhere over here.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, look, I think our generations have been
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: taught to be people pleasers, nice guys. And look, if
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: we think about the difference between what a nice guy
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: is and a kind man, I look at those as
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: two very different things. A people pleaser usually does it
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: out of his own self-interest or for fear of what
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: people will think of him.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: Or a mask to avoid conflict.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Absolutely. A kind man, you would still say to
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: the person, that is a kind person or that is
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: a nice person, but he will stand up for truth
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: even when it's uncomfortable. He'll stand up for what matters.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: And to me, I teach my kids, we are warriors
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: for Christ. We are in a battle, a spiritual battle
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: every day. And we must stand for truth. It is
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: now that we must stand for truth. And so there was,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: I'm a recovering people pleaser. I hate to admit that,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: you know, but I have gone the majority of my
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: life as someone who was trying to hide from conflict
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: or someone who was trying to want people to like me.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: And it's as I'm recognizing and trying to heal these
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: inner parts of me that came from my childhood, I'm
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: the youngest kid. I wanted everybody to love me. I
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: wanted to be, you know, a part of everything and everyone.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: And now it's, you know, one of the reasons I
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: share my faith online is not everybody loves that. It
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily get me more followers or anything like that.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Every time I talk about Jesus, I lose people all
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: the time, but I know that that's what I believe in.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: That's what I stand for. And I, I, I have to, I'm,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: I feel compelled to try and speak what, what I
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: feel like has been given to me. And so when
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: we look at these examples that are out in the
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: world that may be filled with toxic masculinity, I want
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: to bring it back to Jesus as the ultimate divine masculine.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have anything to do about, you know, guns
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: and mustaches and tattoos or beards or cigars or money.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: That is not masculinity. Masculinity is like, you are the
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: safe container. You are standing for something. You are leading
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: because you know who you are and you stand for
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: that truth and you protect those who can't do it
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: for themselves, your family, your spouse, your children. And this
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: is to me where this divine masculine comes into play
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: that can be life-changing when we step into this truth. Now,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: when they twist the truth and it's about supercars and
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: it's about the vacations and it's about the women and
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: it's about the.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: Now, look, I'm a big believer in staying healthy and strong.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: That's part of being a warrior. But do I need to.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: Be a bodybuilder. No, I don't know. No shame on bodybuilding,
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: for example, but I don't need to be a bodybuilder,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: but I can be strong and I can be healthy
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: and I can take care of my body because I
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: know that's what God wants us to do as we
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: have this temple he's given us. But that is not
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: masculinity in and of itself. But should we be strong
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: as men physically? Should we be strong mentally, emotionally? Absolutely,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: because he needs us to be. And when I say he,
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: that is God. He needs us to be that strong
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: individual to be able to withstand what's coming.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Now you've got eight kids.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: So I'm the oldest of seven. Oh, I love it.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: You've had a little bit of experience as a father.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: Talk about that a little bit. I saw a post
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: that you put up where you said, the three things
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: I want to make sure my kids know is first,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: That you trust in God and that they need to
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: trust in God. Second, that they recognize accountability, right? They're
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: going to take responsibility for choices. And third, that you
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: are fun and positive. Talk about that a little bit.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: I love being a dad. You know what? It is
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: such a blessing to be a father and to have
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: these eight kids. And you know what? I got married.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize we were going to have eight kids.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: That was not my plan. But as we continued to
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: feel inspired that there was more waiting for us, it
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: felt right. And, you know, a blessing for anyone who's
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: debating on whether or not to have another child. This
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: may not work for everyone, but we were financially blessed
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: even when we had these children. And it was as
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: if he lifted us up to be able to carry
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: the burden of Because people tell me all the time, like, Baba,
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: how can you even afford that? Eight kids? That's insane.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: And it is. It is. In today's standard, it's crazy.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have it any other way. And so being
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: a father, I want them to know that I trust
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: in God because I need them. It's my duty as
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: their father to teach the principles of the gospel. And
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: if I don't, I'll be judged for that. I'll be
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: punished for that if I don't do my duty. And
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: I want them to gain that faith and testimony on
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: their own and not to live it vicariously through me.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: So I try to help them have their own unique
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: experiences so that they can stand on their own two
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: feet and fight their own physicality. spiritual battles that they
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: will have to do. When I talk about accountability, I'm
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: guilty of being defensive and taking things personally. And when
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: you get defensive and you take things personally, sometimes you
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: don't take accountability because you're trying to point blame Or
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: you're trying to look for excuses. And so what I
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: want is to be able to teach these young souls
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: that when we do do something that wasn't exactly right,
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: that we need to face that fact. And that is
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: our job to step in, no matter how painful it is,
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: how embarrassing, how humiliating it is, if I have done something,
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: I need to step in and be held accountable. That
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: is my duty.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: With the kids, you're talking about in your fathering?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: Not only as a father, but as a child, as
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: a businessman, as a spouse, we must step into accountability
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: because that's integrity. And integrity is part of being honest.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: Being honest is part of the commandments of God. Now,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: I believe accountability is not just for men. This is
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: a human job is to step into that accountability. We
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: must hold ourselves accountable for the choices that we make.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: And as men, we need to lead and show the example.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: And when we come back and apologize to your child,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: for example, I've raised my voice before. I'm assuming that
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: that may be something others have done. I've raised my
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: voice before with my children. And when I felt like
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: that was inappropriate and that I needed to, that is
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: when I would come and I would apologize. And in
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: a quieter moment, I'd put my arm around that child
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: and I would apologize and say, that's not what I
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: want to do. That's not who I want to be.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: And I'm sorry. Will you forgive me? And as I
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: hope to show that example of when I make a
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: mistake that I try and make it right, that they'll
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: follow suit and that they'll see that that's something that
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: they need to do when they make a mistake as well. And,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: but it goes across all elements of your life. It's
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: not just as in the home as a parent. And
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: then talking about being a fun, you know, father, an
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: active one. You know, my grandfather, I have to share
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: this experience. My grandfather and I, Grandpa Beck, this is
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: his name, Shirley Beckstead, His age gap between me and
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: him was the same between he and his father. They
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: had a bunch of kids and he was the youngest
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: and his father was kind of grouchy and kind of
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: not the nicest to him is how he portrayed it.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: And when he wanted to go play basketball or whatever,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: the dad was get back to work kind of a thing. Right.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: And it was only when I was a child, did
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: he start to realize that, that he's tired, his body hurts.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: He was, you know, I had all these things. And
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: when I wanted as the grandchild, I just want to
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: go play and run and do and swing and all
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: the things he was exhausted. And he then realized that
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: that was his father, that his father was his age
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: when he was grandfathering me. And it gave him a
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: new perspective and it gave him a new a new
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: level of empathy for his father that he didn't have
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: growing up. And I just recognize that I didn't want
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: that in my, I wanted my children to know that.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: And another reason why I try to stay healthy and
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: stay strong is because I want to go do adventures
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: with them. I want to play the sport. I want
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: to wrestle with them. I want to be able to
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: have these moments that they know that I'm not the
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: one that's just sitting on my phone scrolling or At
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: the pool, I'm not just getting a tan, that I'm
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: going to jump in with them. Or at the beach,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: I am going to go get wet and jump in
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: and have fun. Or on the bike ride, I'm the
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: one leading the charge and taking the kids out on
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: camping trips or going out and fishing, whatever it is.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: I want them to have those moments because that's what
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: I want them to do when they're fathers. Because there's
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: so many life principles that can be taught in all
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: of those moments. memories that can happen. And I literally
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: just posted yesterday, my son's playing volleyball at his high
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: school team. And that's, I grew up playing volleyball in
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: Northern California. And I love it. It's one of my
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: favorite hobbies. And, you know, he was, he was doing
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: a great job and playing in the game. And then
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: he was, he was, he was rotating out and, and
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: I was able to go kneel down behind his chair
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: and just say some words of encouragement and how proud
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: I how hard he's been working. He's been excelling and
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: doing phenomenally well for the amount of time he's been
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: doing it. And he probably won't remember that moment, but
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to have a friend in the
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: stands who took a picture for me with his phone
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: as he saw me kneeling down with my arm around
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: my son. But I hope he remembers at least some
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: of the feelings of his dad being proud of him.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: He may not remember that moment of the many, many
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: games and performances he's done and all my kids, but
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: I sure hope that he knows how much I love
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: him and that my children know how much I love
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: them and how much I care for them. Anyway, also
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: one thing I have to share while I'm on a
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: soapbox here, being a masculine man does not mean you
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: don't cry.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: Ah, okay. I gotcha.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Because honestly, I was raised, you know, my dad is
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: more of an emotional creature. But I remember trying to
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: hold back all the tears and trying to be the
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: man and, you know, get back up and just keep going.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: And I've learned that I am going to now allow
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: these emotions to come because I don't want to shove
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: them down anymore. And I want to allow them to
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: come and get to the surface because that expression of
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: emotion in a healthy, positive way is something that a
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: masculine man can do. And that can be respected.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: Great. Bubba, on that note, we appreciate your time. Really,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: really enjoyed this conversation. You've got a lot to bring
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: to this conversation. And where do people find you? They
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: want to learn more from you. Yeah.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: So I'm active on Instagram. It's just at Bubba Page.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: I'm very active also on LinkedIn because of my career
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: as an entrepreneur and investor. So you can find me,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: connect with me there. If you're looking to find any
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: of my websites, so you can go to BubbaPage.com and
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: it will list out. So I run TheBusinessBootCamp.com. I coach
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: beginner entrepreneurs from zero to 1 million. TheBusinessBootCamp.com. There's a
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: framework and there's education and there's you know, a group
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: that people can get involved with as an entrepreneur. I
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: run influence.vc, which is an investment group. And we make
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: strategic investments in the consumer product, consumer tech companies. And,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: and then also fatherhoodmovement.com is coming soon. It would be
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: great to collaborate with your men's group as well. As we,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: as we try to bring in Christ centered, you know,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: men's group biweekly calls and, you know, retreats, fatherhood retreats
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: of father, son, daddy, daughter, um, and, uh, and all
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: those things together. I am writing a book and I'm
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: getting a little further ahead. It's the father operating system.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: And it's one of those that I hope is a
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: resource and a guide, um, coming from a man, a
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: dad with eight kids and running multiple businesses. And I
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: tried to create a system that everybody can kind of
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: plug into and customize for themselves. Um, and that it
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: brings the correct, what I hope to be the most
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: important fundamentals and principles as a father into your family
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: as you lead and do your best as a divine
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: masculine man. Great. Awesome.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: Well, appreciate your message of Christ-centered masculinity. It's so needed today,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: I think. There's a little bit of a void there.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: And as much as we could talk about this, I
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: think we need to get this out so that people
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: are There needs to be direction. Number one, there needs
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: to be an awareness that there is a void, both
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: for men and women, that there is a void for
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: men right now and they're struggling and that they don't
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: have to. You know, it's not a matter of just
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: the economy. It's not just a matter, even though that's difficult,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: it's not a matter of, you know, you don't have
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: to be struggling if you can find enough identity and purpose,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: I think, in your life. So really appreciate your message
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: and maybe we'll get you back. We'd love to.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: I love it. Thanks for having me, Greg.