Latest / Bourbon & Rum / Epstein Files, Redactions, and the Immigration Double Standard

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Epstein Files, Redactions, and the Immigration Double Standard · Bourbon & Rum

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Like they've documented every inch of that New York mansion
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and it's like 1. It's gaudy and there's shit
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everywhere. He noted that there was one 190
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page document that was entirely every word on the document
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redacted. The title at the top of the page
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says St. Trop slash Clinton Morocco nude.
0:27
Welcome to Bourbon and Rum, the podcast dedicated to civil
0:31
conversation. I'm Kent, I like rum and I'm
0:34
from the left side of the aisle. And I'm Kyle.
0:37
I like bourbon. I tend to be a little more
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conservative. We're brothers talking politics
0:41
for bourbon and rum. What are you drinking?
0:55
Well, I've decided to, I decided to drink a little something from
1:00
my top shelf. I had a good win at work today
1:03
and I was like, well, I'm going to celebrate with a little
1:06
Weller single barrel. So good, good, good stuff, very
1:11
refined taste. It's, you know, honestly, I it's
1:15
very similar to Pappy, like a Pappy tin.
1:19
I had them once the same night, had a Weller single barrel and a
1:23
Pappy tin and to my unsophisticated pal they're
1:26
pretty close. So pretty tasty stuff.
1:29
Interesting, what are you drinking on?
1:31
Well, I had a very mundane day at work and I'm drinking Cruzan
1:37
US Virgin Islands Rum. This is their black strap
1:42
expression and it is the thickest, darkest.
1:47
I mean it looks like motor oil and it is molasses Y and funky
1:53
so. That's kind of mixed with
1:54
anything that's just the pure rum in your glass.
1:57
Yeah, that's pure rum. I actually lighten.
2:00
Everybody else, it looks like a. Black coffee on ice.
2:06
Yeah, it's pretty tasty, so. And my bottle cost about less
2:10
than your glass full of your stuff.
2:14
Yeah, well. Depends on where you buy it.
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Yeah, well, good. What's what's happening in the
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world today? Today is Epstein release day.
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Going, I hate going back to Epstein again, but honestly, I'm
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sitting here thumbing through the document justice.gov here.
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And I will say, whoever decorated the New York mansion,
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that place, you know, money doesn't buy taste.
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Let's put it there. Well, I haven't had a chance to
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look at anything. I heard a couple of commentary
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online. I heard an interview with Ro
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Khanna, the congressman from California who worked with
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Massey from Kentucky, and he expressed a fair amount of of
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disappointment. On a cursory look, he admitted
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he hasn't read everything. Obviously there's a lot that
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hasn't gone out, but he noted that there was one 190 page
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document that was entirely every word on the document redacted
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and and black rectangled out. So, you know, that's great.
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I mean, I'm going through documents and a lot of what I'm
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seeing grayed out are like I've seen a, I've seen a lot of where
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there's women and there's faces are blacked out.
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OK, that that's fair tracks or like addresses and phone numbers
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and such. But like, I don't know, like I'm
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looking at here's one, but you thumb through.
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Yeah, it's all these pictures and a lot of them are blacked
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out. But then you see like one that
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is half blacked out and, well, there's a bottom part of a body
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there so that it's like, well, OK.
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Obviously some of that had to happen, but you know, I I'll be
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straight with you. I don't trust the Pam Bondi
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Justice Department not to protect Trump's friends.
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Well, again, I I would just go back to all this Unredacted
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information was readily available to the Biden
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administration for four years. Who knew Trump was running
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against them? And if you, if, if you don't
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think they were mining this information to find dirt on
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Trump, I would. I would say you're, I would, I
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would argue vehemently that people have been looking at this
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for a long time. Oh, I totally agree, I don't
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think. Damning enough, I mean.
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If there was a smoking gun on Trump, they would have used it
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100% Kyle. But I mean, who are we
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protecting now? Well, OK.
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OK, interestingly, here's another group of images.
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They're all blacked out. The title at the top of the page
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says St. Trop slash Clinton, Morocco
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nude. I don't know if that's Clinton.
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I don't know who the hell that is.
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Thank you. I I will say thank you, General
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Bondy for for blacking out the nude of Bill Clinton.
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I'm not surprised that Bill Clinton shows up in there.
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I. And I think, I don't know that
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that's Clinton. It was just the beginning of the
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thing. But like, there's pictures like
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here's a woman's legs and feet, but it's the title of every
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picture is nudes. Well, OK, I can see why that's
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not. I can see, of course, of course
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I don't disagree with that. Let me let me rephrase the
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question. Do you?
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Do you honestly believe that there's a good faith effort on
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the part of Pam Bondi to be transparent about what's there?
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I mean, I'm seeing a lot of documents and I, I don't think
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it's unreasonable that there's a lot of review that has to take
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place and they've identified 1200 victims.
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They're going to redact anything that touches those victims.
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So I mean, I, I, it certainly seems like they're making an
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effort to get everything out and that there's a lot of stuff.
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But I guess The thing is, I don't know that regardless of
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what they do or how they behave or what they release, it's
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probably not going to be good enough if your mindset is that
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people are up to no good and protecting somebody.
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Well, probably true. I, you know, I, I don't have
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confidence. I don't.
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Trust the process Notice there's AI don't know that there's
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anything they can do that would be acceptable to you because you
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know, they said, hey, we released it all.
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You're not going to believe that they're.
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True, true, You know, and if that makes me dumb or
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intractable, I'm sorry, but when they go to such lengths to
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fight, they, they did not need Congress to act to to release
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this. They're only doing it under
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protest. So yeah, no, I'm, yeah, guilty
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as charged. There's nothing that she could
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do that I would trust, which is unfortunate 'cause I would like
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to believe that I saw the actual, you know, the contents
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of the repository, but I don't. It would be really difficult for
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me to imagine getting 190 page document that's all blacked out
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and then feeling good about that.
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So no. OK, but there's 300,000
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documents. I mean I I'm thumbing through
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10,000 pictures and each picture like this one that I'm looking
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at is 86 pages. Each page has 9 to 15 pictures.
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This is the Saint Trop Clinton Morocco nude file which I have
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found. Actually, Clinton is in several
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of these, so I'm just saying it's not a small amount.
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No, I, I, I believe that. I'm just saying, I mean, look, I
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maybe I sound like a raving conspiracy theorist, but, you
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know, don't. Why would he?
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Why would he protect Bill Clinton and Bill Gates?
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Well, he didn't. They're in the he didn't protect
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them because they're in the thing.
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Where's that Pulte guy? Have you seen him show up in any
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of those yet? Everybody knows that he's thick
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in the thing. Do you know what I mean?
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I I don't know. I no, I don't trust him.
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I don't trust him. Well, but are you going to read
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the documents? You don't.
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Probably not all 30,000 honestly or 300,000, probably not.
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Well, I'm, I'm just saying that I don't know.
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I mean, the documents are there. I don't know what's that guy's
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last name? Pulte just mentioned PULT.
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Pulte. Yeah.
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Is it indexed? You can search for him.
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I'm going through the contact book.
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Oh, it's got his black book on there.
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Yeah. Are the phone numbers still
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there? Could we try ringing some of
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these people? No, they blacked out the phone
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numbers. Protect the innocent.
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I don't see a Pulte in the black book.
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Interesting. I see.
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I see a Pritzker. Yeah.
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Didn't we know that, though? I don't think it's Jay.
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I think it's a family member. Yeah, it's Nick and Thomas.
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They may not even be related to Jay.
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Who knows? Yep, probably are.
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Hang them out to dry. I don't care.
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I don't care if they're Republican or Democrat.
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Hang them out to dry. Yeah, there is no office holder
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or national figure in the Democratic Party, no matter how
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much I Revere them, that I give a rat's ass about what happens
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to them if they're a part of this nobody.
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I'm with you 100%. No, and I don't.
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I'm not. Like I said, I wasn't happy that
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it took this long to release it. I'm with you there.
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I guess I'm just saying as I'm reviewing these documents, I'm
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no way. Well, it's like we laughed about
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during COVID. Well, I'm, I'm all of a sudden
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an infectious disease expert. I'm all of a sudden the grand
10:16
jury testimony document expert can't.
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But no, I mean, it's a lot of stuff IA lot of the redaction
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I'm seeing makes sense why they redacted.
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But I'm sure, I'm sure there's a variety of opinions about should
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all that stuff really be redacted or not.
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And I, you know, I'm not for covering up anything.
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I'm just saying that it it certainly seems like we're
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getting a hell of a lot more information than we've gotten in
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the last five years. Well, true and good that I you
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know, I don't, I don't think that my position is particularly
10:54
rational. I'm confessing this to you
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rather than bragging about it. But, but I have.
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I have zero confidence in their commitment to the truth.
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I think that they're complying with the minimal letter of the
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law that they can get away with. And if there's any friends of
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his in there, it's going to be buried so deep that it'll take
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us a long time to find it. Well, but I think it goes back
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to what we kind of talked about before the release of that.
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I got to stop looking in looking.
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I'm looking at the kitchen right now, but.
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It's so weird though. Like looking at the pictures of
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the, like, they've documented every inch of that New York
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mansion and it's like 1, It's gaudy and there's shit
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everywhere. But then there's like just
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random, you know, paintings of scantily clad women.
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And there is a, you know, like a, the a bust of like boobs or
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something. You know, it was just like
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random weird stuff, but I think there's a unobtainium quality to
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this that we kind of talked about before they released it.
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Like everybody's saying there's nothing there, but nobody's
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going to believe there's nothing there.
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And so it's kind of like the Warren Commission here.
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It's like, well, here's everything while they're lying.
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It's not true. It's like it's never going to be
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resolved because if we are, regardless of what Pam Bondi
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releases, you're not going to trust that it's enough.
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And if there's a Democrat that gets in office and they release
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a bunch of stuff, every Republicans go like, well,
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they're covering up their friends and they're just
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highlighting like there's no, I don't think there's any path to
12:48
resolution on this thing. Honestly.
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I hate to. I mean, I know we like to talk
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about this regularly, but it's like, I think it's almost like
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an impasse, like there's nothing that's going to resolve the
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unopened unanswered questions. You're probably right.
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And that's consistent with what I've said too.
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And we talk, you know, I mean, I feel like this is rehashing of
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what we've already talked about. But but this is not about the
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Republicans versus Democrats. This is that crowd versus all of
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us. And unless and until we draw
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those lines that way. But I'm as equally outraged at
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the Biden administration for not releasing this stuff as as you
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are. And your criticism is 100%
13:30
valid. And I don't know if they
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thought, well, you know, we don't want to embarrass former
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President Clinton. I don't know what they were
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thinking, but it was stupid. They should have dropped it all.
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It's them versus US, not your side versus my side in this.
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That's a good point. I would encourage you to look at
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this stuff. I mean, it may be hours of your
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life if you'll never get back, but but you know, don't just
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take I I just don't want to take somebody else's review of it.
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Fair enough. To cloud it, it's, it's, yeah,
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you know, so much of it is just mundane pictures, you know, and
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it's like, right. I don't know, there's so much of
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this that's, there's this intrigue that we're going to
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find this and it's like there's probably 4 pictures that matter
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and the rest it's just bullshit, you know?
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I mean, maybe not that's maybe an over exaggeration.
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But you know, there, yeah, there's 500,000 documents.
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But like I just went through, I thumbed through 1000 documents
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that are pictures of a house that nobody lives in.
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Like OK. Yeah, But, you know, I, again, I
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think we've said this before too, in some ways, the
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mundaneness of this is the real scandal.
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There's people milling around in the place with the, you know,
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pornographic sculpture, sculptures, places.
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And man, I got to give credit, I've, I've said this 100 times,
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go back to Howard Lutnick. Dude lives in the house next
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door, gets invited over, looks around, looks at his wife and
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said this is creepy shit, let's get out of here.
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And never went back. That is the correct response to
15:18
this. And, and there's a whole lot of
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these other people that did not have that response to that.
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They looked around, looked at this stuff and was like, yeah,
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that's fine. And just the access of all these
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yahoos cycling in and out of there.
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And I don't know, there's pictures of him with foreign
15:38
dignitaries and they're writing all these equations and crap on
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a chalkboard and like, why is anybody talking to this guy, you
15:46
know? I also think that, you know, I
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still believe that he was Mossad or something.
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I doubt anything that we're going to see in these documents
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is going to, you know, that's the first they.
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Clearly stated that if they're redacting anything related to
16:02
intelligence matters. Well, OK, there we go.
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Well, more to see and I will take a look and I will quit my
16:11
grousing. Grouse away.
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I and I'm not fully I'm not fully pleased with the the
16:18
level. Like I said, I, I think they
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should have released it all before, but when I read through
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the process of how they're doing it, you know, I deal with a fair
16:28
amount of lawyers in my current profession and like I love them,
16:32
but nothing happens fast. I mean, you know, and people are
16:37
wringing their hands over crap. And so, I mean, I guess my only
16:41
point is, you know, if I'm in your shoes that tails a return
16:44
or turn, yes, I'm going to have a healthy dose of skepticism of
16:48
people that I don't trust or like or or respect.
16:53
And maybe there is some editing that is problematic.
16:57
But also when you get into the redactions and the delay and
17:00
release, there is an element in here, regardless of of your
17:05
position, that is bureaucratic, legalistic bullshit that, you
17:11
know, there's probably stuff that's redacted that like, why
17:14
are they redacting this? Because some lawyers said
17:16
because this is their whatever, you know?
17:19
So like, yeah, I guess my point is even if you got the
17:22
unvarnished truth of the smoking gun, how much of it is really
17:28
impactful versus how much of it is the bureaucratic grind?
17:33
You know, I don't know. Yeah, it's fair.
17:35
It's a fairpoint. Hey, I want to change the
17:38
subject up for a second, if you don't mind, because I had an
17:41
epiphany after our last conversation and we were talking
17:46
about immigration, something that I haven't raised to my, you
17:51
know, to my embarrassment, I, I hadn't really thought about this
17:55
before, but I had a brain flash. You know, we've, we've got,
18:00
we've got a huge number of undocumented immigrants in this
18:03
country. I think by any measure, Trump,
18:07
you know, they're trying to run people out of town, but you
18:11
know, they're doing that hundreds at a time, not 10
18:14
million at a time. Did you ever wonder though, why
18:18
do we not approach this problem at the, I guess it's not the
18:24
supply side, but the demand side?
18:28
I'm going to make an, I'm going to make an, an analogy here and
18:31
I want to set this out carefully.
18:36
Most communities for the longest time tried to enforce against
18:39
prostitution by arresting prostitutes.
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You know what I mean? Like, oh, these girls are out on
18:46
the street, we're going to arrest them for soliciting.
18:49
And then a lot of places got smart and realized, actually,
18:53
you do a whole lot better, but leaving the women alone and
18:56
arresting the men that are hiring them.
18:59
And I wonder about, you know, we, we talked a little bit about
19:04
the, you know, the meat packing companies in Iowa that employ
19:10
questionable immigrants by the thousands.
19:13
You know what, what if instead of like rolling ransacking
19:18
through families homes, what if we really focused our
19:23
enforcement on you're a corporation and you hired
19:27
someone with fake documents. You looked the other way when
19:30
they filled out an I-9 with a passport that didn't even look
19:34
like them. You know what?
19:36
If we took seriously companies responsibility under the law to
19:41
affirm that people are eligible to work in this country, What
19:47
about? That yeah, I mean, I always, I
19:50
do like, I have to pick on you a little bit.
19:52
I always do like the undocumented immigrant, like, Oh
19:57
well, they're an immigrant, but they you.
20:00
Know. I lost my license.
20:03
No, you know, there is a document, they've got a document
20:08
and the document says they're supposed to go home, but they
20:10
chose not to go home. So, yeah, it's like, OK,
20:14
document. But yeah, I mean, I think that's
20:18
valid. I I mean, I think it also comes
20:22
to a matter of, you know, it's back to any, anything else or
20:25
practicality of enforcement. I mean, there are laws on the
20:29
books, large corporations do have to follow pretty strict
20:34
guidelines of hiring and making sure that people have the, the
20:39
right credible documentation. I think we're the, I think we're
20:44
the, we're the bulk of the hiring, though.
20:48
It's not, you know, Ford Motor Company that you're going after,
20:53
you're going after, you know, small cash operations, which,
21:00
yeah, not a bad idea, but I don't know, I, I, I, I question
21:05
how enforceable it is. I mean, I don't, I don't think
21:07
it's when you talk about what's going on in Iowa, but I the kind
21:12
of corporate scale at which you could do this in a mass level if
21:17
it's a large corporation, well, basically any corporations got
21:22
pretty strict rules of who they can hire, who they can't.
21:25
I, I think what you're dealing with is more kind of the smaller
21:29
entities in the market, which again, not to say there couldn't
21:33
be a, a way to enforce that, but I think it's harder.
21:36
I just think you don't have to fix it all.
21:39
You can change the labor market. I would be really.
21:44
You're right. There's laws on the books, and I
21:47
had to fill out I-9 forms for new employees for many, many
21:51
years. I know how that works.
21:53
What I'm interested in is how much is the Trump administration
21:56
spent on enforcement of laws against employers for violating
22:01
their responsibilities in this. And I don't know that that's
22:07
less efficient than trying to arrest 10 million people and
22:11
move them out of town. I would say Tyson Foods is not a
22:17
small family business. You know, they're, they're
22:24
pretty big deal. They are #79 on the Fortune 500.
22:29
So, you know, are they, is anybody checking up on them?
22:35
Are they, are they getting any is, are they any enforcement
22:37
dollars being spent on that? I don't know, maybe there are.
22:40
And but I just wonder, you know, if jobs dried up, you might have
22:47
fewer people clamoring to get into the country at some point.
22:52
I think what struck me is this, that I said, and I think I'm
22:55
right about this. Most of these millions of people
22:59
are not just here, you know, cleaning out the food pantries.
23:03
They came here because they wanted a job.
23:05
They want a job, and they want to send money back to their home
23:09
countries. And if there weren't jobs, you
23:13
wouldn't have the same kind of demand to come in here.
23:15
Well, but I mean, I mean we've pretty much fixed illegal
23:20
immigration. There's the border crossings are
23:23
virtually 0 What? Are you going to do with 10
23:26
million people that are already here though?
23:27
That's what I'm saying. Peace, peace.
23:30
But it's not really a demand issue.
23:33
It's more of AI mean what you're advocating is let's eliminate
23:37
employment and so that we can have a bunch of unemployed
23:40
folks. I'm not sure how that results in
23:44
deportation faster. No, I, I didn't mean it to sound
23:49
like that. I'm just saying they're coming
23:52
here for jobs. We're employing them.
23:55
So I, just, how is it their fault?
23:59
I, you know, obviously they choose to cross into our country
24:04
illegally or come in and overstay a visa.
24:06
It's their fault in that sense. It's a.
24:09
Mixed fault because in our fault because we had a border that was
24:14
wide open for. Yes, and our fault because we
24:19
employ them in droves. I got to believe that before
24:21
they started, you know, ICE started doing their stormtrooper
24:26
raids at the home depots across the Dallas metro, that there
24:30
were plenty of good card carrying Republicans that were
24:33
having people, you know, mulch their flower beds without asking
24:37
a lot of questions. Well, but then it's also a
24:40
question of what level of, you know, what is the level of due
24:48
diligence and bureaucracy that you're going to levy on, you
24:52
know, homeowners and everybody else.
24:55
I mean, you know, it comes down to what, you know, how, how are
24:59
you going to enforce that, but also how do you do that
25:05
practically well? Yeah.
25:07
But even if it's not about enforcement, I mean, do you
25:12
think I'm wrong? Do you think that there are
25:14
people that you know that have railed and bitched about
25:18
immigration and then turned around and gladly hired people
25:22
that don't speak any English without asking any questions?
25:26
I think that probably happens a lot.
25:29
Sure. And I think it's, I don't know.
25:30
I just think it's disingenuous. Like I can like I can rail
25:34
about, oh, you got to keep these people out of here, except when
25:37
I need help, except when I, you know, want drywall done.
25:41
Then then everything changes. If you're if you're really
25:45
concerned about it, principles. I mean, I don't know.
25:48
I mean, are you doing background checks on people when you hire
25:51
somebody to do a lawn care? I mean.
25:54
You don't think people have their suspicions?
25:58
Sure. OK.
26:00
And so where's the principal in that?
26:01
I'm I'm Mr. Red Blooded American, but if it suits me, I
26:07
look the other way. That's what I'm saying.
26:08
No, the the the people are going to run background checks on the
26:12
long guy. No, but you know what's up?
26:14
You know people. Know I got a guy a guy that mows
26:17
our lawn his company mows our lawn.
26:19
He's Hispanic. I write him a check now maybe
26:24
he's somehow is an illegal alien and he's got a checking account.
26:27
I don't know. But I mean, to me that's a
26:29
fairly good test if I can write somebody a check.
26:34
But I don't like police his his business and, you know, figure
26:40
out how many of his people are aliens or not aliens or what,
26:43
what? And I don't.
26:44
I just don't know that that's practical.
26:47
So would you say that that's something that the individual
26:50
has no responsibility for and that's something the government
26:53
ought to take care of? No, I, I, I guess I'm just
26:57
saying that, yeah, I mean, it's a good point, but I like if I'm,
27:01
if you're going to get a lawn care service in Dallas, I, I'm
27:05
not sure there's anybody that's not Hispanic that you're going
27:08
to get for a lawn care service. So you could say, well, don't
27:11
hire a lawn care service. Again, is that practical?
27:14
I don't know. I just think there's a not you
27:18
personally, but I think there's a real no, but string of
27:21
hypocrisy there. You know what I mean?
27:23
I think there's a hypocrisy there.
27:25
OK, but again, I, I mean, there's a racism element too.
27:28
Like a guy's Hispanic and I'm he's taking a check.
27:34
In my mind, you're taking a check.
27:36
You're probably here legally if if you're legally here, you're
27:39
probably not taking a check. So I got to go say, well, you
27:43
look, you look, you look Mexican.
27:45
Are you from Mexico? Like are you are you not here
27:48
legally? Like, you know at what point it
27:51
just seems like there's that crosses multiple.
27:54
Boundaries of well, it, it does and it points out the complexity
27:58
and I you, you raise a really good point.
28:01
I'm just saying it, it strikes me that there's kind of a, you
28:06
know, we got to keep all these people out of here.
28:09
And yet I, I'm just kind of don't ask, don't tell about,
28:15
about my part in it. I, I don't know that it, it,
28:18
that seems to me contrary to the kind of classic message of
28:23
individual responsibility and not putting things on the
28:26
government that I associate with the Republican Party.
28:29
And you know, I'm, I'm in part just being an asshole about
28:33
this, But I, but really, why do people come to this country?
28:38
Why do why do people come to this country?
28:40
Are you buying products based on how well folks enforce
28:45
immigration law? Like how how much how much are
28:49
our individual purchasing decisions tied to whether or not
28:56
corporations are doing the right thing?
28:57
It's like, for instance, you know, you buy chicken from
29:00
Tyson. I'm not making this on you.
29:03
I guess I'm just. Saying no, it's a fair, it's a
29:05
fair question. Where does this end?
29:09
My biggest thing is I don't think it was wise to have a
29:12
border that's wide open because I see a agree, agree.
29:17
And I think you got to do something about the millions of
29:19
people that are here illegally. And I like the idea of having a
29:23
fast pathway to legal citizenship.
29:25
I think that's a better answer than just getting rid of
29:28
everybody because I don't think you're going to get rid of but
29:30
but no, you bring up a good example, a good, a good point.
29:34
I mean, we have, we've employed Hispanics for a variety of jobs.
29:40
I'm writing checks to people which my mind I'm thinking, OK
29:44
you're probably legal, but I'm not asking people for passports.
29:49
Right. Yeah, No, I get it.
29:51
I. But I but I, but no, and I, I'm
29:53
OK with analyzing this but and pulling on that.
29:56
But then I'm like, but is that I don't know, is that reasonable?
30:00
And then it's like, and then a consistency of, well, I only
30:03
asked for passports if you look Hispanic, like, OK, what the
30:06
hell is that all about? Like, you know, I don't know, I
30:08
I'm just thinking about how this kind of thing plays out.
30:12
Individually, yeah. I'm not trying to trap you.
30:16
I mean, I think the same thing is on display.
30:19
With yeah, I'm not offended or anything.
30:21
I'm interested. Well, I think the same kind of
30:24
thing is on display when the, you know, when the climate
30:28
change activists steps out the steps of their Gulfstream.
30:32
Like, you know, if you don't think climate change matters,
30:35
then the Gulfstream's fine. But it's a little disingenuous
30:39
to say that, you know, all of these carbon emissions are going
30:43
to kill all of us. And, you know, I'm flying to
30:48
Saint Barts. I'm like private chat.
30:51
If you, you know, be consistent with what you believe.
30:56
I this kind of thing has had me on my mind in weird ways.
31:01
Like it's kind of disconnected. I you're going to scoff at me.
31:05
I bristle a little bit when people are like, buy American,
31:09
look for the American label. I'm kind of a free capitalist.
31:14
Like if they make better stuff in China, I'm going to buy
31:18
Chinese stuff. I think you hold business
31:21
accountable when you do that. But it would be if that's going
31:27
to, if that's the way I'm going to roll, then I can't at the
31:30
same time say we need to bring them at manufacturing back to
31:35
America. Like if like if I don't care
31:37
enough about it to change my buying habits than me talking
31:40
about it now. But I you think that's two
31:43
separate things. I think you can be for
31:46
manufacturing in the US, but preferring a foreign product.
31:52
Yeah, I I think it's important to have manufacturing in the US,
31:55
but they're going to have to produce a quality product also.
31:59
I mean, it's a pimp incumbent on them.
32:01
I mean, I don't know. I back to this.
32:04
I love this. It's an interesting thing to
32:07
pull on the immigration, but then I think about, OK, again, I
32:10
think about lawn care like I don't know that there and I've
32:15
never looked. I usually pick the lawn care of
32:18
the guy that shows up on my doorstep and offers the best
32:20
price. But I I, you know, and again,
32:24
this is meant to sound racist or anything, but there's not been a
32:28
white guy that showed up in my door advertising the lawn care
32:31
services. I don't I'm not sure they're is
32:34
a guy of that ilk in this area offered lawn care services.
32:39
So, you know, I guess the principal position is, well, I'm
32:43
not going to ask for lawn care service.
32:45
Well, you know what, I'm too damn lazy to mow my own lawn and
32:48
I'll pay for it. And if some guy was, you know,
32:52
hey, we've insured. It's only U.S. citizens mowing
32:56
lawns and it's $50 instead of $35.
33:00
OK, you know, but I like, I don't know, I, I guess I'm just,
33:04
it's a good point. I mean, I never really thought
33:07
about it. I mean, it's a good point, but
33:08
at the same time it's like the practicality of it is the part I
33:13
struggle. I totally get that.
33:16
And I don't think that, you know, I, I don't think I'd make
33:19
a different decision than you. I think what I'm talking about
33:23
though, is that I think you see this a lot.
33:26
It's really easy to have these kind of objective opinions about
33:32
things that don't really affect you well and not hold
33:35
consistency. I gave you that same thing we
33:38
talked about that podcast with, well, Tucker Carlson was on
33:43
there with Mark Cuban and Mark Cuban's like, we need to give
33:45
more money to Ukraine. And he's like, because I've got
33:47
family in Ukraine and, and, and Carlson's like, well, I, I mean,
33:51
you got family there. You must be given a lot of money
33:53
to Ukraine yourself, right? Well, well, well, I'm not.
33:59
Oh, believe me, this, this issue is not, it's not a partisan
34:03
issue. It's kind of a, just a morality
34:05
issue. And I, I think about it a lot.
34:07
You know, I, I spew lots of opinions on here.
34:12
It's, it's a little daunting to look myself in the eye and say,
34:17
OK, I talk a big game. Does my, does my life validate
34:22
that out? You know, it's not a bad thing
34:25
to to ask that question. Yeah.
34:28
And I'm sure, I'm sure mine doesn't.
34:29
I'm sure I probably do business with companies that, you know,
34:34
if I did more research, I'd say, well, yeah, I don't think I
34:37
should do business with you or, you know, I should question
34:40
this, but, but I'm lazy, so there's that.
34:46
I have opinions but I'm lazy so yeah.
34:49
Well, you know, one of my investment options in my 4 O 1K
34:54
is the social responsibility fund and.
34:58
Is that is that like the Human Fund?
35:02
Not, not quite, but this is a, a grouping of kind of funds that
35:07
will be like, and you know, they all have their own statement,
35:10
but we don't invest in tobacco or alcohol or, you know, fossil
35:17
fuels or whatever. You know, they've got a list of
35:18
things that they that they don't.
35:21
And you know, I will be, I will admit that long before I looked
35:26
at the list of what they don't or don't invest in, I looked at
35:30
their 10 year return rate. Yeah, you know, I mean, like if
35:37
you know, if it's pretty close, I'm willing to take a 500 basis
35:41
point haircut. But we're not talking about real
35:43
money. I got, I got investments to
35:45
make, you know, and I, I don't know, I think that it, it's just
35:51
something that's been on my mind.
35:52
And I, I again, at the immigration issue is one that
35:55
really lends itself to that kind of introspection.
35:59
Like I don't care if it's your, if we're talking about your
36:02
lawn, if we're talking about 10 million people in this country,
36:06
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the most of them are
36:10
employed some way or another, or there's a family member that's
36:14
the breadwinner for that family. Those are people that are doing
36:18
jobs. They're doing jobs that they
36:21
were able to get hired because the employer did was not
36:26
apparently able to hire, you know, your neighbors to do it.
36:31
And we all benefit from that. What are we going to?
36:36
I mean, seriously, have you thought about if the Trump
36:38
administration was really effective in getting illegal
36:42
immigrants out of Dallas? I mean you might have to buy a
36:45
weed eater or something I mean. Yeah, or maybe there's somebody
36:51
else that will find it economically viable to do it at
36:55
that point and offer the service.
36:57
You know, I don't know. I mean, I don't, I think it's
37:02
illogical to think you're going to get and I think I, my guess
37:05
is the numbers much north of 10 million illegal immigrants,
37:09
we're probably 20 or 30. So I think it's illogical that
37:13
you're going to get everybody out and certainly support
37:18
getting out to criminal illegals.
37:21
But you know, I, I, that's why I, I, I'm mad of, you know, come
37:27
up with a legal path that's fast and easy and then and then shut
37:31
down the southern border. We don't have any more, but it's
37:35
kind of like probably a bad example, but it's kind of like,
37:40
you know, if you, if your credit card debt starts going up and
37:44
you've got the cash in your savings account, you see, you
37:47
know what, I'm just going to pay it off with savings one time
37:50
deal and then it's not going to come back again.
37:52
That's great if it doesn't come back again, But if it comes back
37:55
again, now you're just pissing away more money at it, right.
37:58
And I, I kind of view it like that.
38:01
You know, Ronald Reagan did an amnesty and we thought, OK,
38:04
we're going to solve this. Well, that's great if you don't
38:06
let anymore in, but it if you if the trickle continues and it
38:10
wide open, well now you're going to have to reamnesty.
38:13
And so I think, you know, you could do that or if not amnesty,
38:18
you do some quick pathway, but but then you got to have some
38:23
commitment, bipartisan commitment that we're not going
38:27
to create this problem again. But you're to your point, the
38:31
problem one create and you know, if you think about it, if Reagan
38:35
kind of cleared the paid off the credit card bill and in the 80s,
38:40
there's a reason why it's picked up over the last 50 years.
38:46
To your point, it's good for people.
38:48
It's good for people to have folks in that part of society.
38:52
And and I think people on both sides of the equation don't want
38:57
that to end yet. You know, everybody, it's like
39:02
we talked about everybody, every candidate for the last 50 years
39:05
will get up and say, well, we need comprehensive immigration
39:08
reform because they know that's a completely nebulous BS thing
39:13
to say. Trump came in and said, I'm
39:16
going to fix this, and he's fixing it.
39:17
Well, now it's causing a lot of problems.
39:19
Yeah. It's pissing a lot of people.
39:21
Off ultimately the beneficiary of the way that we've approached
39:25
it, that we've made it expensive and that we that we caused
39:30
people to be in fear. All that does is drive down the
39:35
wages for those people. People will take less money.
39:38
You know, this is, this is basic economics, right?
39:41
It's a hazardous situation. They're they're beholden to the
39:46
companies. Oh, now wait a second.
39:49
Now you we're verging on a conspiracy.
39:52
So where you're going is Trump's border enforcement is about
39:56
creating fear and reducing the price the the labor cost.
40:01
I don't know if I'll give him credit for thinking that far
40:03
ahead, but I think that that's absolutely one of the outcomes
40:06
of what we're doing. OK.
40:08
But let's dig into that a little bit.
40:11
You're reducing the supply. Won't the price go up?
40:16
You're, you're reducing supply, but you're actually, you're
40:22
actually increasing supply of people that if you've got a job
40:26
where nobody will cause you problems, if they won't rat you
40:30
out, you'll take a lower wage, right.
40:33
So you are flying under the radar?
40:36
I don't know. I haven't thought this through
40:37
that well. But I don't know.
40:39
I don't. But I don't think it's the
40:41
employer that's going to. I mean, honestly, any employer
40:45
of illegal aliens right now wants to do everything they can
40:48
to keep them because they're way cheaper than the alternative.
40:52
So like, there's no motivation for an employer right now to rat
40:56
anybody out. They'd like to hide them all in
40:59
the in the closet someplace. Yeah, yeah, maybe interesting
41:04
theory. Well, I, I just think there's a,
41:06
there's a lot of dynamics. It's, I think you and I, I, I
41:12
don't mean personalize this, but when you think about the
41:15
immigration issue, you, you, I mean, you've said this and I, I
41:19
respect this position. You fear that we've got an
41:22
insecure had in the past an insecure border.
41:26
And so if the enforcement of that border security is LAX,
41:32
then they're going to be people that are going to come here
41:35
because they just are looking for opportunity and a new job.
41:38
But they're also going to be people that are fleeing
41:41
prosecution in El Salvador or whatever, right?
41:43
And so this becomes an easy place for them to get.
41:46
And your concern is about security.
41:48
I don't know what the number is, but I'd be willing to bet that
41:53
there are more people that are just like their families are
41:57
hungry and they want opportunity and that that kind of person
42:01
outnumbers the person who's like one step ahead of the law in El
42:05
Salvador. Both of those are true.
42:08
I think that the one is probably more likely, but I think that
42:12
you're thinking about a particular kind of scenario.
42:15
And I'll admit that I think about other things that I
42:18
probably, I probably romanticize it a little bit.
42:22
I mentioned before woman that worked for me in California, and
42:27
we were just sitting in the lunch room one day and she was
42:29
like, yeah, I, I came here illegally.
42:33
My mom, you know, I was a little girl.
42:35
She was holding my hand and we were running through the desert
42:37
in the night. And, you know, she was willing
42:40
to do anything to get to this country and to create this life
42:43
for me. And now I'm naturalized.
42:44
And I, I, I think about that and I think that woman cares more
42:50
about her citizenship as an American.
42:53
And 90% of the people that I know that grew up here and are
42:58
just expecting everything to be grown on trees for them.
43:02
And so, you know, that's my image when I think of
43:05
immigration. It, it's not the only truth.
43:09
There's a, there's a whole lot of other stories, but that is my
43:13
mental map. And, and she's not the only one.
43:18
I don't know if that's the majority, but there's a real
43:21
strain of that. And I admire people.
43:23
I admire somebody who says my family is in danger or in
43:27
poverty and I'm willing to take the chances to walk through the
43:31
desert and go take a job mowing somebody's lawn so I can wire
43:35
money back to help my kids. I I can't not admire that
43:38
person. Sure.
43:40
No agree. I also think though, the other
43:44
aspect of supporting a strong border is a humanitarian
43:50
element. I think when you have an open
43:53
border and you promulgate that to everybody and everybody
43:57
thinks, oh, I can get in. I mean, the the underbelly of
44:02
people that are smuggling people and the whole economy of
44:06
smuggling people up here is a horrible thing.
44:09
I mean, there's trafficking, there's all kinds of shady
44:13
characters, there's people risking their life through the
44:16
Darien Gap. And we, we discussed creating a
44:19
super highway through the Darien Gap if we really wanted to ramp
44:22
things up. But I, you know, I I think I
44:25
think that's a humanitarian issue too, which, you know, it's
44:28
like, and it's hard to reconcile those two because I agree with
44:31
you. Yeah.
44:33
And honestly, let's face it, if you or I were living in some,
44:38
you know, you know, again, Trump was in trouble for saying this,
44:44
that, that to suggest there's such thing as a shithole
44:47
country, but there are shithole countries out there.
44:49
If you and I were living in some shithole country and we, we
44:52
said, you know what? I, I, I want to feed my family.
44:56
I'll do whatever it takes and I'll ride in the trunk into
44:58
America and mow lawns and send money to my family.
45:01
That is admirable. I'm with you.
45:04
I, I believe that, but I also think it's also a bit of a false
45:10
hope that we've given people that that's a way to do it.
45:14
I mean, what we ought to be doing is coming up with a way to
45:17
create an Ellis Island and Mexican, the Mexican border and
45:22
bring these people up here in mass in a way that works and is
45:25
easy. That's the I think that's our
45:28
huge biggest problem. Why don't we do that?
45:30
I could get behind that. You get behind that.
45:32
Why? Why don't we do that?
45:34
Yeah. What are the, what are the
45:37
headwinds to that? Yeah.
45:38
I don't know. I don't understand it.
45:41
Understand why nobody's in favor of that other than to your
45:44
point. Everybody's talking a good game
45:47
about wanting to legalize and reform and all this, but the
45:51
majority of the public really wants illegal immigration.
45:55
It's like this. It's like this trying to think
45:59
of a good analogy, but it's like this poison that nobody wants,
46:04
but everybody wants. Yeah, it's interesting.
46:07
Because honestly, that wouldn't be that hard to make it happen.
46:11
But nobody supports that. Why no?
46:14
Well, I mean, well, I, I'm, I'm going to resist like throwing
46:20
this back about Trump, But when you build your campaign around
46:24
the rapists and murderers and they're eating the dogs, it's
46:27
difficult then to pivot and say, and we need them as a workforce.
46:32
We need new people paying into Social Security.
46:34
Therefore, we're going to have a fast track line that if you can
46:37
prove that you weren't a member of trendy Agua, we're going to
46:43
let you in and we're going to give you a green card and we're
46:45
going to let you work. At but I, it's, I mean, I that's
46:49
an easy, easy path to follow that it's a Trump issue.
46:52
But this has been an issue since you're right forever.
46:55
I mean, no, you're right to do this and there's people that's
46:59
had had the power in this board and nobody's willing to do it.
47:02
Why is that? You know, that's the other thing
47:04
I'd I'd love to understand and I'm not knowledgeable enough.
47:07
Maybe you are 'cause you tend to be.
47:10
Do you need to refill? I'm good, I might refill.
47:16
You tend to be smarter from a historical standpoint.
47:19
But what is be interesting to know what the percentage of
47:25
immigration was like when Ellis Island was in full swing versus
47:31
now. Like, is it substantially
47:34
different from a percentage standpoint?
47:36
I don't know. That would be a good stat to
47:38
look up. I do know that it's been like a
47:42
like over our history, we've had these times when we've just been
47:46
like, bring them in and then you bring too many in.
47:51
And then there's this, there's this kind of push back against
47:54
it. You know, we had, interestingly,
47:58
most of what gets bandied about about Mexican and South American
48:05
or Central American immigrants. You could roll the clock back
48:08
100 years or 150 years and talk about the Irish and you'd get a
48:13
very same kind of a nativist view.
48:16
You shouldn't let those people in those.
48:19
You know, before that it was the Germans.
48:22
ChatGPT Interesting the prompt is what times of American
48:27
history had the most immigration from a percentage stamp In the
48:31
1890 to 1910 time frame, 14 to 15% of the US population was
48:36
foreign born. 1850 to 1860 foreign born share was 9 to 10
48:43
percent. 2000 A present 13 1/2 to 14% foreign born, so almost
48:50
as high as the peak in the 2000. And what was, I'm sorry, I'm
48:55
trying to keep track. What was it during like the
48:57
Irish Potato famine 1850s? 1850 to 1860 was 9 to 10%.
49:05
Thirty, 1930 to 1970 was the lowest, 4 to 5%.
49:09
That's interesting you. Wouldn't you think that 1930s
49:12
people would been? Of course our economy sucked
49:15
then too. There wasn't a reason to come
49:16
here because it wasn't a job here for you.
49:19
It's just, it's interesting, it's strange bedfellows.
49:23
You know why? Why don't we have the fast track
49:25
line? The truth is that the Democrats
49:27
couldn't get away with it because the labor movement in
49:32
the Democrat Party would would eat them for lunch if they
49:35
proposed it. And even though that's a waning
49:38
constituency, it's still powerful enough.
49:41
I don't think any Democrat would touch that.
49:43
Well, I'm going to continue searching through the Epstein
49:47
documents for some evidence of illegal immigration.
49:49
If I can tie those two, you know, that would be the that
49:53
would really bring this podcast all around Kent.
49:56
Well, yeah, you might have to look at, like, Slovenian illegal
50:01
immigration rather than El Salvador and immigration, the
50:06
European, Eastern European. Yeah.
50:09
All right. Well, good chatting with you.
50:11
I will do some some looking into the files.
50:14
And, you know, maybe there's going to be a lot of good minds
50:17
working on this. Maybe more will show up.
50:20
I hope we get something that looks like justice.
50:22
I'm not holding my breath, but maybe something would have
50:25
nothing. Yeah.
50:27
Understand. All right, Kat.
50:28
Have a good evening. Yeah, you too.
50:34
Hey, thanks for joining us on this episode of Bourbon and Rum
50:36
Podcast. We hope you enjoyed it.
50:38
Remember to subscribe on your favorite platform and leave us a
50:42
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50:45
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50:47
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Let us know what you think. Let us know what you want to
50:52
hear. And until next time, cheers.