Latest / WA Police Confidential (Formerly Operation Podcast) / Ep 25 - How We Caught a Killer

Transcript

Ep 25 - How We Caught a Killer · WA Police Confidential (Formerly Operation Podcast)

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast discusses real life crimes and law enforcement matters.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: It may include detailed descriptions of criminal activity, traumatic incidents, and other content that could be confronting or distressing, particularly for victim survivors.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you find any of these topics upsetting, please consider whether this content is right for you and six support if needed.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_05: I'm Joey Captain Sari.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I agree.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_05: And uh coming up this week, bike is in broom.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_05: Or should I say bikeys not in broom?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_05: A bit more on that later.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_05: Um so uh you've heard of snakes on a plane.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_05: Well, move aside.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_05: What about washing machines on scooters?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we spoke to Detective Senior Sergeant Stephen Clear from Homicide Squad.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Here's a little snippet of what he has to say about a serial killer in the making.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_06: He was he was like, Oh, you're letting me go, like sort of questioning us.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_06: It's like, well, yeah, we are.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_06: You're actually free to go, or words similar to that.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_06: And without without hesitation, he said, Yeah, well, I I did it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_06: I did kill her.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And also, we have had six road fatalities in the past.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, we haven't.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_05: We've had more than six.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's that's the whole thing.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_05: We just it's hard to keep track.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll talk about a dangerous incident uh with an officer from road policing.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: It could have ended terribly.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_05: And and we've seen we've seen so many fatalities on our roads in the past week.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_05: So it it's very timely, isn't it, Maya?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is confidential.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to WA Police Confidential.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: In 2022, 70-year-old Monica Stockdown died at an aged care facility in Albany.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Initially, her death appeared to be from natural causes, but thanks to the observation of a medical professional and the work of WA police detectives, investigators uncovered something far more sinister.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Joining us today is Detective Senior Sergeant Stephen Cleal from the Homicide Squad who led the investigation.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Stephen, thank you for joining us.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_06: Yep, no worries.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um now let's go back to the beginning of the investigation.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: When it first came across your desk, what information did you have?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_06: Uh well, I I do remember the moment it was uh the the Christmas week leading leading up to Christmas.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_06: It was the 22nd of December uh in 2022.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_06: Uh it was simply uh a phone call.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_06: Now at Homicide Squad, we share an on-call phone, which means my team is on call and ready to go for the next job.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_06: What usually happens in those moments is we usually get a phone call from a detective at a crime scene or a deceased body and tell us about it and figuring out whether those circumstances are suspicious or not and whether we deploy or not and things like that.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_06: But this one was much, much different because I got a phone call about someone who had an elderly lady with with uh you know medical medical issues who had passed away a month prior at an aged care facility.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_06: Um and and so initially it's like, you know, what where where's this phone call going?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_06: Um the reason I got the phone call was after a post-mortem, which was done uh which was completed on that day, but done just shy of a month after after her passing, uh, which came up the pathologists came up with some concerns, and the concerns were uh that there was uh evidence of strangulation.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_06: Uh and so when I got that call, obviously I had to sit behind the desk and ring the coroner, um have a look at uh post-mortem uh results, uh, and I had to to ring the um aged care uh facility and just start looking into it that way.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, that's literally all the information I had is basically a um uh a post-mortem which didn't fit in with the circumstances of someone dying peacefully in their sleep.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, unlike most homicides that I'm guessing you would be called out to, there'd be a crime scene.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: This one had no crime scene.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: How did that kind of lead the investigation from there?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_06: Well, that's a that's a great question.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_06: The answer to her is we always had a crime scene.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_06: The the issue wasn't where the crime scene was or where this incident happened.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_06: We literally had a a room that she passed away in.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_06: The issues I had with the crime scene, uh, and and obtaining any physical evidence from that is that it it was almost a month that's passed.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_06: So that crime scene, the continuity was lost, the exhibits had been, you know, fixed or cleaned or moved.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_06: Someone had obviously taken over that room because the rooms are necessary to help more aged care people.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_06: And so the continuity was lost, the exhibits were lost, and and so I I still had a crime scene.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_06: We had a a scene to go to.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but you know, it it wasn't like it it was it it was clean and it was hospital cleaned as well, which unfortunately for us uh is uh is a different level of cleaning.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_06: So um yeah, the the the scene was was a tough one to obtain evidence from.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_06: Um however we were able to to corroborate you know uh something at that stage that we didn't know we were going to get in the future.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_06: Um but with things like the things that were broken, things that had to be replaced, I'll I was able to download uh a call bell activation from that room and get the get the electronic results from that, which in itself was concerning um and corroborated a lot of what we eventually heard from the offender himself.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_05: Wait, wait, wait, hold on a second.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_05: Sorry, Steve Joey.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_05: Well what was that that you you downloaded from the room?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_06: So they've got in each aged care or in this aged care home, um they had uh it's called a core bell activation.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_06: So each bed had, or certainly in in Monica Stockdale's room, she had a a a cord attached to the bed.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_06: So if she was sleeping and needed needed attention or urgent attention, uh she could simply press a button and that alarm goes off and activates activates something to to alert a uh a staff member or medical person to rush to their room and and and and for whatever reason they press the call bell for.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_06: Now, the one of the um moments for me when we uh obtain that information is her call bell, which which doesn't get activated often, uh, was activated 10 times between 9.38 pm and 1019 pm uh on uh the 28th of November 2022, which was when um she was uh found you know, passed away reportedly peacefully in her sleep.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_06: And obvious for obvious reasons that didn't sit well with me at all, because why wasn't any of that reported?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_06: You know, who who was responsible for reporting that and why wasn't it reported?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_05: So she was potentially, I guess you're thinking maybe she might have been pressing it in great distress, perhaps maybe whilst she was being murdered?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, well, with the with the lack of any uh knowledge at that stage, um absolutely, uh what we what I didn't realize I would find out later is she was pressing that whilst she was being murdered, um, which is uh all sorts of horrible tragic.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_06: Um and yeah, uh you you not a lot surprises me these days with with uh the the the job I've been doing for a long time, but that was one of those moments it was quite chilling to be fair.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we know that someone has been convicted and found guilty of the murder, but yeah, what um kind of led you towards capturing Jacob Hoisted?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_05: Who's the first we've heard of Jacob, by the way?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_05: Who is Jacob?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_06: Well, who is Jacob is is we we we I knew Jacob's Jacob Hoisted, his name uh straight well, not straight away, but near enough when I received the phone call because when Monica uh passed away, uh her death was reported, but not as a suspicious death.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_06: So I had the circumstances on there as to the hospital that she she passed away from, and I also had the circumstances of um who who was the one that alerted staff of of her passing, and that they're just basic um bits of information that that go on a report.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_06: So Jacob Hoisted's name was known straight away, but um, you know, it wasn't until um I was able to well, I looked up his name on the complete uh police computers that uh uh another um light bulb moment occurred because Jacob was a 19-year-old man and uh with a very light criminal history, but he had a alert on his name, which was uh made the the the hairs on my arms stand up if if that's a phrase I can use.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_06: Um he had an alert on his name which said he had homicidal ideations, particularly towards women.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_06: So that was a worry for me.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_06: I've never actually seen a an alert uh worded like that uh in my career.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_06: And this is this is the guy now that who has you know reported her dying peacefully in her sleep.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_07: So the bits of the jigsaw puzzle uh straight away made sense and obviously from that moment uh he was of interest to us and he was a suspect uh in what at that moment I I classified as a suspicious death.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_05: How how did that come to be on his record, Steve?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_07: Well in 2019, so he was a uh a juvenile uh back then, he would have been, I think, 17 if my math is correct.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_06: Um he was picked up by the Pinjara police, simply given a juvenile caution uh for shoplifting, just a standard shoplifting uh uh event, and uh the police were speaking to him.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_06: During that conversation, he brought up um that he had homicidal ideations, um, particularly towards his mother and his sister.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_06: And he was open to killing anyone who stopped him lighting fires.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_06: And the police, the Pinjera police obviously were concerned about this because they they didn't bring up anything about lighting fires.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_06: There was no such thing put to him, and they and and they they dealt with it uh correctly with what they had at the time.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_06: They had a young shoplifter who was, you know, um not making things hard for police.
• 12:04
  unknown: He was talking about what he did with the shoplifting side of things.
• 12:06
  unknown: He was given a caution because he was open and honest and it was his first offense.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_06: And but he said these things.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_06: Now that made the police uh alert uh mental health uh workers uh about him.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_06: And he was actually uh taken into care into the Bentley mental health, where he went in and out and was was cared for uh by them and and looked at uh by the the Bentley hospital on and off for a number of months.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_06: But he was never deemed by the the medical staff to be mentally unfit or unstable, clearly someone that had some issues.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but uh that's that's how that started from there.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_06: The the threats of or the the the comments made about homicidal uh ideologies towards towards his mother and sister um contributed towards um them taking out a restraining order against him.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_06: So there was all sorts of uh of issues and and obvious concerns for myself with this information that we had just got about the the person that was was working in the Bethel aged care uh facility at that time.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_05: I guess if he hasn't committed an offence and he hasn't been deemed to to to pass that threshold, um it's probably pretty difficult, Steve, uh really to to I mean stop him, yeah, pursue it further or to stop him from going about his his life.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_06: And as you can imagine, uh post this um investigation and once all the facts were known and found out, um there were questions of uh how did this how did this young man work in aged care facilities?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_06: And when you when you look at it, um all this information you know doesn't go into when someone's seeking in in employment.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_06: He on the surface of things, he was a polite young educated kid who had studied aged care working, got himself uh the appropriate certificates, presented well.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_06: Um, you know, how far do they go into looking at someone's background, you know, without the search warrants and things the police have to find out this information.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_06: They had no chance.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_06: So when I say that, uh it is concerning someone like him had a a a job you know, looking after aged care people, obviously, but that's not at all the fault of of the aged care people that that employed him.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_06: That they weren't to know, they had no idea.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_05: And and look, this this is something that comes up and up again, up and time and time again in law enforcement.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_05: Uh Steve, I think um, you know, uh the importance of of information sharing and you know that there's a lot of backhouse systems that don't talk to each other.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's something that I think um you know obviously uh there are many people looking at and working on and working towards better information sharing, but yeah, it's it right now it it is still one of those things of you know one hand doesn't know what the other one's doing.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, well uh this is not a true word, and and um but w on that topic, uh I take that as just a conversation between uh us at the moment because because my job really is just as a detective and to to identify these things and collect evidence and and you know and and uh you know investigate uh serious crime.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_07: Of course.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_06: Uh these kind of stuff uh is something above my pay grade and uh and outside that gets looked at at raw commissions and things like that.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_05: Definitely above both of our pay grade, I would say.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_05: Uh yeah, so we'll we'll move on.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um Stephen, you finally got the chance to interview um Jacob, I guess, for the first time.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: What was what was that process like?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I understand that he denied it at the beginning.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, he did.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_06: Uh he was we were actually uh driving towards his house at that time.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_06: I remember this quite vividly uh because we didn't know much about him.
• 16:19
  unknown: I'd seen a photo of him on our you know in his driver's license or something similar.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_06: And um, so we knew very limited about him at that stage.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_06: We knew enough to know he was a suspect and he needed to be um investigated for for this uh you know unfortunate death.
• 16:38
  unknown: Um and so we were driving towards his house.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_06: As we were driving towards his house, we literally saw Jacob walking on the footpath along Albany, and we we drove past and so, oh my goodness, that I think that's him.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_06: And we agreed it was and did a U-turn.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_06: So all our plans of how we would enter the house and do this and what we say went through the window, and we just did a U-turn and stopped on the corner of um uh on on the corner where he was walking up towards and just walked straight up to him and literally said, as he was walking by himself, just said, Jacob, you you know, are you Jacob Hoisted?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_06: And he said, Yes.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_06: And it would have been quite daunting, I would have thought, for anyone to have suddenly have two unmarked, you know, police cars stop and then you know uh armed detectives walk up to him and and and introduce themselves and ask what your name is, and then say, look, you're under arrest uh for suspicion of murder.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_05: And uh what was his reaction?
• 17:42
  unknown: What was his reaction?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, well, this is uh I'm used to all sorts of reactions, um but this reaction was so underwhelming that it was overwhelming for me.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_06: Because if if you have not done anything wrong and and imagine uh a group of armed detectives coming up to you and saying you're under arrest on suspicion of murder, uh I would like to think if I was innocent of something, I would react quite different than what uh Jacob Voisted did.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_06: He just said uh okay, and that was it.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_06: Um and it like I said, it was it was underwhelming, and he just complied with everything.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_06: We uh a quick pat-down search before he went in the car.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_06: Um, he got in the car, he was polite, he was he was um, you know, uh accommodating uh with us and just so unemotional that uh I I almost say chills, uh, and and we were looking at each other going, This is this is amazing, you know.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so I don't know if I'm uh articulating that well enough.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_05: You're articulating it very well, Steve.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um it almost sounds clinical, maybe I'm getting serial killer vibes.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_06: Oh look, I I did too.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_06: And and you gotta remember that he he he doesn't know about what was going on in terms of a post-mortem and all that.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_06: So this has happened almost a month ago for him.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_06: He's he's likely walking around thinking he's gotten away with it, no one's said, and you think I'm okay then to go from from that, just walking down the street of Albany, a nice, quiet, lovely country town, to being told you're under arrest and then you know sitting in a car surrounded by people and just uh talking normally.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_06: He's his his mood wasn't heightened, he wasn't, he didn't even appear anxious.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_06: It it was it was uh uh to to use your words, uh serial killer vibes, 100%.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've then taken him back to the station, I would presume.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: What was what was his interview like?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how did that turn out?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so he was interviewed uh for we we arrested him in the morning, uh and he was brought back to the station.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_06: And there's a certain number of procedures we have to do and present his rights and and and phone calls and conversations with lawyers and all that kind of stuff.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_06: After that, he did choose uh to do an interview.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, and he he was a talker.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_06: He he was happy to talk.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_06: And um as you can understand, we we had a lot of questions to ask.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_06: Now he he denied uh trying to summarize uh this, he I can simply say he denied the offense over and over and over.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_06: We interviewed him for an entire day.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_06: Now that wasn't uh, you know, I'm not saying a 24-hour interview.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_06: There's obviously breaks in there where we gave him food and drink or gave him breaks or let him you know move around and things like that.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_06: But he was interviewed on and off um for uh uh uh about eight hours.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_06: Um it was a marathon effort uh by the interview team, swapped out and we had briefings.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_06: I was monitoring it, we were talking, I was talking to Jacob, you know, um, you know, uh on those breaks and things like that.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_06: It was a real clinical uh methodical interview.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_06: And although we had no doubt, uh obviously had no doubt that we were talking to the person that had killed Monica, uh, he wasn't breaking.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_06: And there was times that I thought he might, because the the the circumstances were so obvious um that he might see reason and we were even saying, Look, you know, mate, this sounds this sounds s silly, this sounds stupid, you know, like this is can't be right.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_06: And he was just sticking to his guns the whole time.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_06: Um but then Then came uh a moment, uh uh uh a turn-in moment for him, and uh we had some things in place uh you know, because at that stage we didn't have the evidence to to charge him without his say-so, albeit I I've got no doubt, you I know for a fact that that that charging him wouldn't have taken uh too much longer even without his his confessions, but but that evening um he was going to be released on bail, uh not on bail, he wasn't charged, he's going to be released, but he was told, okay, well, look, you you're remaining a suspect, and we will need to see you again, Jacob.
• 22:46
  unknown: Do you understand these things?
• 22:47
  unknown: So you you he he was effectively being released because we had nothing more we could put to him, he'd been through a marathon interview.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_06: And at that point, he he almost looked disappointed.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_06: He almost looked a bit worried.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_06: It's it's kind of the first time I saw any kind of different change in his emotion.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_06: He was he was like, Oh, you're letting me go, like sort of questioning us.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_06: It's like, well, yeah, we are.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_06: You you're you're actually free to go, or words similar to that.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_06: And without without hesitation, he said, Yeah, well, I I did it.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_07: I did kill her.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_06: And it was, you know, what what do you do with that?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_06: Because we we'd finished interviewing him, he it was no longer being recorded, albeit we were in a a police lockup at the time we were telling this, so that that's that is uh on surveillance uh CCTV, but he wasn't being officially informally, and so it was kind of oh I had this feeling of oh he could have said something but but but any but it was kind of he kind of had this for the first time I saw a bit of emotion.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_06: He kind of had this fear well, what am I gonna do with myself if I go outside if you're not gonna charge me?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_06: And so when he's turned around and just said, Well, well, I did kill her though, why are you letting me go?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_06: And it's like, Well, uh would would would Jacob are you happy to go back on the interview?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_06: We've obviously got some more questions now that you've told us this.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_06: And he he agreed, and so then we um uh we had a briefing about what had just happened, um, made sure Jacob, you know, for for admissibility reasons, had had food and drink and and and sat down and and and all that kind of stuff, made sure his rights, he understood them all.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_06: And then we sat down uh with him with the interview team, you know, which I monitored, and um he gave uh a very calm and methodical chilling confession, uh which he laid out uh what he actually did with Monica.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um Stephen.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Which was what was going through your mind when he was giving this super calm explanation of what had happened?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_06: Well, it was going through my mind at that time, uh I was I went into you know that police robotic mode where what he's saying I had to make the most out of the evidence, had to to you listen in, taking in what he was saying and trying to corroborate things with the the team I had up there at the time when he's making these confessions, sending people here and there and everywhere to corroborate his his confessions as he's talking about it.
• 25:38
  unknown: Because we I wanted to make sure he wasn't just making stuff up.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_06: Um and so things were being uh corroborated at the time, and it's it's like wow, this this young man is is telling the truth.
• 25:52
  unknown: He he has he has he has he has done this.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_07: So it it was you know the the obviously sad, obviously tragic, this this poor lady and what she was put through, uh and not to mention the family um and what you know of I've become uh very professionally used to delivering bad news to people, which is a very unfortunate part of my job.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_07: But this one was a um a new one for me, you know, it wasn't a death notification, it was a a change of circumstances um uh with the family, which was uh, you know, another another moment for me personally with this job, which made it so much different to to any other.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_05: Steve, um did did Jacob say why he murdered Monica?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, he did, and he said it uh in a manner that was brought up in his um I'm moving forward a bit much, so I'll I'll I'll just say this and then go back to your question.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_06: It was brought up in the sentencing there was a a big conversation and legal argument between the defense and the prosecution.
• 27:22
  unknown: What Jacob Hoystead to said to get back to your question was uh effectively saying he was putting her out of her misery, saying that she was um not well, he he had he cared for her, they had quite a friendship, and uh a phrase similar to I thought it was better for her to go through five minutes of pain and six months of of deterioration and and eventually dying.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_06: So kind of saying that that he did this for good reason for for her benefit uh is what he was saying, um, which still makes it uh a willful murder.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_05: Well, and also I mean the obviously clearly not with her consent if she pressed her the the alarm at her be emergency button ten times.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_05: So Yeah, I don't buy that at all.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_05: And I I'm well the court, obviously.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_06: Well, that that's right.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_06: And it it's when someone makes a confession like like he did, even saying things like that that he said, we don't just go, okay, he said that, so that's what we go with.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_06: We have to look at all the evidence from that point.
• 28:38
  unknown: I mean, obviously something like this and a confession like that comes with uh a lot of investigative actions that that we need to to to investigate.
• 28:48
  unknown: Uh, and you know, that that that call bell going off 10 times is you know is is definitely one of those things.
• 28:55
  unknown: Um and it didn't fit.
• 28:57
  unknown: For me, it it it it certainly didn't fit.
• 29:00
  unknown: Now he's he was a a beautiful lady of 70 years old.
• 29:06
  unknown: She did have early onset dementia.
• 29:08
  unknown: Uh she had an unfortunate fall um you know in in November, so not not too uh recently to when this tragedy occurred.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_06: But apart from that, she was she was in relatively good health.
• 29:25
  unknown: So there was no reason for she wasn't suffering.
• 29:31
  unknown: She wasn't the there was this was clearly that that didn't sit well for me.
• 29:36
  unknown: I'm trying to hold him back what the words I really want to say, but I'll be politically correct and say that that didn't sit well with me at all.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_06: And um, and I I guess that justice came out the way it should is how the defense tried to play this uh was not how the the judge that that didn't get past the judge in very spectacular fashion.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Stephen, the injuries that happened to Monica, um obviously she presented to the first doctor well enough to say that maybe it was a peaceful death.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well 50-50.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean well was it consistent was it consistent with the peaceful death?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Was it can yeah?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_06: No, well, see one thing we we found out is why that was the case.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_06: So um the first doctor who I've got nothing but praise for, because if it wasn't for that doctor, we may not have found out about this.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_06: Uh because the the the short quick answer is that uh unfortunately, uh you know, dying a 70-year-old passing away in an aged care facility is is is not unusual, you know.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_06: It's it's quite typical, and that's just the the facts of what we were dealing with.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_06: But when the the doctor came to have a look at at Monica, it's not that like the doctor said straight away this is a suspicious death.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_06: He just says this is something I wanted to notify the coroner of, because if there's any anything unexplained, then the coroner gets notified.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_06: Now, there was some bruising uh that the the doctor saw, uh, and the bruising wasn't even on the um on the neck.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_06: There was no marks, no, no external marks on the neck.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but because of that bruising, the doctor said, well, no, I won't write a sign of death certificate.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_06: I'll I'll refer it to to the coroner.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_06: And we're very thankful that that he did.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_06: What we now know is that afterwards, um when uh when Jacob had finished killing Monica, he actually cleaned up.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_06: He washed her face, uh, he washed her neck, uh, mopped the floor, um, the items that he used to strangle her, uh, you know, including the core bell cord and um and uh a cord that was attached to a a safety mat that's designed to be around the bed in case a resident falls out of the bed at cushions their fall and things like that.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_06: Um, that he had you know thrown them away from a a bin and and cleaned up.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I now know that that Jacob was wearing two sets of gloves uh when he was committing this act.
• 32:31
  unknown: Um in that alone shows a manner that this wasn't, you know, this wasn't a mercy killing.
• 32:38
  unknown: This was someone that was clearly trying to get away away with it.
• 32:42
  unknown: Um so yeah, there's all those those uh those facts that we found out as well as to why why the scene didn't look a lot different.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_06: Because we now know that that it was around uh well it was 10.19 was the last time that call bell was activated.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_06: But Jacob didn't call the registered nurse to advise that she had peacefully died in her sleep uh until uh seven minutes past eleven in the PM.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_06: So he had plenty of time to clean up his his crime scene and and do what he thought he needed to do to try and get away with this.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_05: That is that is chilling.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_05: And um as someone who well, my grandmother passed away from dementia, and um, yeah, it's um it's horrible, mate.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_05: It's absolutely horrible.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_05: Vulnerable, a vulnerable elderly person.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_05: It's just monstrous.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_07: It's monstrous, and and uh and look the uh those moments um where things take a significant turn, it didn't even end there for me, uh I must say.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_06: Um because following on from this, when someone makes a confession as as Jacob did, and he was obviously to be charged with murder that that evening and and sent to court, we did a a search warrant at his house um post that interview.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_06: Um and and just another significant moment uh occurred even after this.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_06: I didn't think I could be shot uh anymore, but but but there we go.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_06: What we found at his house was was just remarkable.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: What did you find at that?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: You've left us on the cliff hanging up.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_06: I I had a feel I had a feeling that might be your next question.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_05: We'll get back to it just straight after this break.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Confidential.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Stephen, what did you find in Jacob Hoisted's house?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_06: Well, it's it's very typical that we do search warrants at suspects' house.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_06: I mean that's not a you know, that's that's a no-brainer, and and we were looking for evidence to corroborate the confession or corroborate this investigation and to learn more about Jacob himself.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_06: Uh when when we were there inside his house, uh inside his bedroom, pardon me, inside his bedroom, we discovered a backpack.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_06: And inside the backpack was a a crowbar, uh, an axe, uh new work gear, uh, and a face mask.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_06: And when I saw that, I was the first thing that that that came to my head was this this this kid is not a he's not a burglar.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_06: He's not the kind of guy that goes house to house stealing you know money or jewelry or anything like that.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_06: That just wasn't who he was.
• 36:18
  unknown: You know, this guy was a he's a killer.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_06: So what what is what what is the go with that bag?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_06: Like what what what have you got that bag for?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_06: Because you know, Monica's body, uh we know she you know was was yeah, strangled, and it was it was horrific what what he did over that 40 minutes uh of of killing her.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_06: But he didn't use it, wasn't like um he used blunt instruments to do so.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_06: So what what is a crowbar and an ax and and things to to conceal your face and new work clothes to change into?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_06: What what is this all about?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_06: Because when we did that search warrant, Jacob wasn't with us, he was in in custody.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_06: Um so straight away uh I had this shocking moment of we we need to bottom this out and find out what what this is about.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_07: Um and so we organized a second interview to be conducted uh at the um at the prison where he's been held.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_05: So I mean it it it sounds like a serial killer's kit, you know, beginner's serial killer's kit, basically starter kit.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_06: Well that I that that's what that's what I thought.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_06: Um I thought you know, linking it to something sinister like that, but um it wasn't.
• 37:53
  unknown: Uh it it it it brought us into the mind of of Jacob and how how he thinks.
• 38:01
  unknown: And um when we interviewed him, this second interview was a lot easier than the first.
• 38:08
  unknown: We didn't go through any of this denying of the offense.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_06: We you've got to remember when we interviewed him in the prison, he was already charged, he already made this confession.
• 38:16
  unknown: It's like the weight of of carrying this secret for him was off his shoulders.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_06: So from the very beginning, he was happy to uh be open and honest, uh, which he was about why he had this bag and what he intended to do with the bag and the contents in it.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: What was the uh you're leaving us on cliffhangers?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: What was the intention, Steven?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I I'm not sure what you want me to get out of what you don't because there's no good news here, but but what what um what he said he wanted to do with this bag, um, and this came from him himself because I I was like you guys, I was thinking this is uh gonna be used as weapons or or things like that.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_06: What he said he was going to do was that he actually found out uh that Monica's death wasn't uh written off as a um as just a straightforward death.
• 39:14
  unknown: He actually found out somehow that she was having a post-mortem and that there was more to it.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_07: So what he had planned to do was to break in to the mortuary and retrieve uh Monica's body and uh and in uh you know and dispose of it.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, get rid of the body.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, to cover up what he had done using the crowbar and the axe.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_06: Now a lot of what he said is probably something I don't want to um uh uh you know say uh in this forum, but it it was he was going to use those items to cover his tracks and remove any evidence of what he had done because he didn't want to be found out.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_07: So that that was a another significant moment.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_06: Um bearing in mind, you know, I I've been a homicide for a while, um, you know, uh a couple of times actually, and I I just like what what what is this?
• 40:28
  unknown: Who who are we dealing with?
• 40:30
  unknown: This is this is insane.
• 40:32
  unknown: Uh and and again, his admissions about this were matter of fact.
• 40:39
  unknown: They were matter of fact.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_06: The second interview, it wasn't like pulling teeth like the first the first one.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_06: It was very matter-of-fact.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_06: It's like asking a question, he gives you an answer, and it's like, wow, that is that is chilling.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_05: Chilling.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_05: Steve, uh just gonna flat out ask you, in your opinion, was he a serial killer in the making?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_05: And what what's your take?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_07: Um my take on that is uh because you you're asking my opinion now.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_07: Although my opinion is based on what evidence I had in front of me, uh, the epicomology uh of Jacob, which was very intriguing, obviously, and and and subject of a lot of investigation and interest.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_06: Um I also look at the very amateur nature of um uh of how she died and the injuries.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_06: It wasn't like uh it had all the all the hallmarks of of someone that had done this for the first time because it it sounded it it came across like he had no idea what he was doing, and it it was it was a first uh is how it came across uh to me.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_06: Um what was even more chilling is how planned it was, because as part of the investigation, uh we did interrogate his his mobile phone, and we we did see uh that there was searches on his mobile phone prior uh to to the night of the 28th of November when this happened, as to um you know how to strangle someone, uh how you know uh how to book on how to do this.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_06: Um we also saw searches on his phone uh on the 28th uh of November around uh around 10 p.m.
• 42:40
  unknown: or just after 10 p.m.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_06: Uh with a search that said, How can I tell when someone has died from strangulation?
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, what are the signs, what does the body look like?
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_06: And so literally that sent chills again because you understand that this was a planned attack.
• 43:00
  unknown: He had planned to do this, and that those those second searches that was done on the night of the 28th, he would have literally been searching his phone just after killing her and been in her room making those those uh searches to to satisfy himself that Monica had in fact passed away.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_06: Um when you look at that and in terms of the fact that he was in an aged care facility, so he had a lot of vulnerable people there that could fulfill this fantasy that I would call it, um, I have no doubt that that that you know a serial killer was stopped.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_06: I can't imagine what would have happened if he got away with with killing Monica.
• 43:52
  unknown: I can't imagine what that would look like.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_06: And in fact, when we investigated this, um I
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_05: Well I think you've rightly pointed it out.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_05: Um to the doctor who to raise the lamp.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_05: I remember sometimes speaking to people who had been or family members of those who had had been murdered.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_05: One of the things that always always struck me is that in those instances where the victim maybe this thing scratches under the fingernails case, Monica's case.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_05: She potentially has pressed that duration enough times.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's picked your interest, it's got your attention in a way.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_05: The victim in this case, Monica has kind of actually probably helped somebody else going through or suffering the same fate.