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Murder In Moscow: Can The Alleged Murder Weapon Be Tracked Even Without Possession? · Beyond The Horizon

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  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. Anytime
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: that there's a murder committed, the investigators would love to
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  Speaker 1: have that murder weapon, but even if they don't recover
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  Speaker 1: the murder weapon, they can still get a conviction on murder.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, they can even trace the weapon without ever
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  Speaker 1: even finding it due to the wounds it makes on
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  Speaker 1: a body. Some of the telltale marks from the weapon
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  Speaker 1: pieces of it might break off during the attack inside
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  Speaker 1: one of the victims, there is a whole host of
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  Speaker 1: things that the investigators can use to try and track
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  Speaker 1: this knife. And that's exactly what they're going to be
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  Speaker 1: doing as far as this case. The prosecution would love
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  Speaker 1: to present the murder weapon come trial time, but it
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  Speaker 1: is not necessary to have that weapon to get your conviction.
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  Speaker 1: So what the investigators are going to do is put
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  Speaker 1: it all together forensically and And they'll do that by
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  Speaker 1: looking at the kind of wounds that were on the
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  Speaker 1: bodies and then running that against the different kind of
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  Speaker 1: knives that they believe could be responsible for this kind
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  Speaker 1: of murder. So today we have an article from Fox
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  Speaker 1: News where forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan talks about this
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  Speaker 1: a little bit more. Headline, Idaho murder investigators can identify
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  Speaker 1: the knife without it ever being found.
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  Speaker 2: Forensic expert.
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  Speaker 1: Forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan speculated they may very well
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  Speaker 1: have recovered a metal fragment from the blade. This article
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  Speaker 1: was authored by Alexander Hall. The knife used in the
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  Speaker 1: Idaho student murders may have left behind evidence that investigators
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  Speaker 1: could use to tie back to the killer, even if
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  Speaker 1: the blade is never found, one forensic expert said. And
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  Speaker 1: it's amazing how far the technology has come. Think about
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  Speaker 1: how it was in the older days, even back in
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  Speaker 1: the 80s and the 90s, and how easy it was
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  Speaker 1: for these killers, these serial killer types, to get away
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  Speaker 1: with what they did. I mean, look at how long
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  Speaker 1: BTK was running around, or the Green River Killer. Hell,
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  Speaker 1: look at the Long Island Serial Killer. That still hasn't
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  Speaker 1: been found. I can keep going. What about the West
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  Speaker 1: Mesa Bone Collector? All of these killers were able to
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  Speaker 1: get away with their crimes, at least for now anyway,
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  Speaker 1: because technology hadn't caught up to it yet. There weren't
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  Speaker 1: as many surveillance cameras. There weren't as many, you know,
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  Speaker 1: obviously cell phones, pinging towers, and all this other stuff
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  Speaker 1: that we have now. And then that's not even talking
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  Speaker 1: about the genetic testing and how far that's come. How
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  Speaker 1: many cold cases have they used DNA to clear? In
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  Speaker 1: the early hours of November 13th, University of Idaho students
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  Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodel, and her boyfriend Ethan Chapin.
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  Speaker 2: Were stabbed to death.
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  Speaker 1: Allegedly by Washington State University graduate student Brian Koberger. An
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  Speaker 1: empty tan leather knife sheath was found next to the
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  Speaker 1: bodies of two of the slain students, and police say
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  Speaker 1: the murder weapon is a fixed blade knife.
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  Speaker 2: So that would make sense. If you find a sheath
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  Speaker 2: that holds a fixed.
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  Speaker 1: Blade knife next to the bodies of murdered girls, chances
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  Speaker 1: are that was the sheath that was being used, right?
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  Speaker 2: At least that's what you would think.
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  Speaker 1: While the knife itself is still missing, forensic expert Joseph
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  Speaker 1: Scott Morgan described on Dr. Phil Thursday how the weapon
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  Speaker 1: could still be identified and linked to the killer. It's
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  Speaker 1: not necessary that we have the knife at this point
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  Speaker 1: because the knife actually could leave behind more evidence, Morgan explained,
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  Speaker 1: and that's pretty interesting. There's a whole host of different
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  Speaker 1: ways that the investigators and the scientists working on this
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  Speaker 1: DNA can go. And I'm guessing that there's a lot
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  Speaker 1: of other areas that we haven't even discussed yet or
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  Speaker 1: been made privy to about where this DNA from Kohlberger
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  Speaker 1: was also found. You would think that if all of
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  Speaker 1: these kids weren't sleeping when these murders occurred, that a
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  Speaker 1: struggle certainly ensued. And if that's the case, it's pretty likely.
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  Speaker 1: That some of Brian Koberger's DNA is on the bodies
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  Speaker 1: of these murdered students. Under fingernails, on their hair, whatever.
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  Speaker 1: And I think when all is said and done, that's
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  Speaker 1: what's going to end up sinking Brian Koberger with all
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  Speaker 1: of the other evidence piled on top of it. He
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  Speaker 1: said the full body x-ray done during autopsy may reveal
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  Speaker 1: a metal chip from the knife that can then be analyzed.
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  Speaker 1: That does happen when you're murdering somebody or multiple people.
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  Speaker 1: your knife will get dull and maybe even a piece
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  Speaker 1: or two of it will break off inside of the
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  Speaker 1: victim's body. So this knife allegedly has been used repeatedly
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  Speaker 1: four times, okay? Let's just think about that. The structural
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  Speaker 1: integrity of this thing begins to wear down, Morgan said.
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  Speaker 2: It'll chip.
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  Speaker 1: Sometimes points break off. I've seen this any number of
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  Speaker 1: times at autopsy. If that is the case, they may
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  Speaker 1: very well have recovered a metal fragment from the blade
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  Speaker 1: of that knife within the body. Now, we don't know
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  Speaker 1: one way or the other. That is pure speculation on Mr.
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  Speaker 1: Morgan's part. And what he is saying, though, is from
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  Speaker 1: his experience of being involved in knife attacks and murders
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  Speaker 1: and being a forensic scientist that he has seen this before.
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  Speaker 1: And he has seen the knives degrade and pieces of
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  Speaker 1: those knives break off inside of a victim's body. And
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  Speaker 1: with the brutality of these attacks that we have heard
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  Speaker 1: from the investigators, there's a chance that that might have
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  Speaker 1: happened here. He then explained how metallurgical analysis can be
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  Speaker 1: used to trace the knife back to its specific manufacturer,
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  Speaker 1: which could then help investigators figure out where the knife
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  Speaker 1: was sold and who purchased it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's going to be a difficult task.
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  Speaker 1: But hey, look, the technology is there. And if the
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  Speaker 1: government can figure it out and build a case based
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  Speaker 1: on that, more power to them. Just because the sheath
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  Speaker 1: was found there doesn't mean that that's the knife.
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  Speaker 2: That was carried.
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  Speaker 1: So you look for a specific forensic tieback relative to
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  Speaker 1: the chemical structure of the blade as well. That might
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  Speaker 1: be a potential here in this case, Morgan noted. So
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  Speaker 1: that's a pretty interesting thing to talk about. Did he
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  Speaker 1: have another knife and leave that sheath there as his
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  Speaker 1: calling card, as some have predicted or some have speculated?
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  Speaker 2: I don't know. I have no idea.
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't seem too likely to me, but I guess
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  Speaker 1: we can't. discard it yet until we have all of
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  Speaker 1: the evidence and all of the information, I would certainly
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  Speaker 1: put it in the category of highly unlikely. And chances
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  Speaker 1: are that the sheath that he left there was the
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  Speaker 1: sheath that was housing the knife that he used to
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  Speaker 1: commit these murders. And in his frenzy or his panic
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  Speaker 1: or the struggle, whatever, that sheath was somehow dislodged and
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  Speaker 1: left there by accident. Trial attorney, Mercedes Colwyn, speculated that
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  Speaker 1: the knife's sheath may have been left at the crime
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  Speaker 1: scene on purpose. And this is something that some people
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  Speaker 1: have been talking about. And we did an episode on
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  Speaker 1: this yesterday. And I'll tell you, I'm not really buying it.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not sold that Brian Kohlberger is some master criminal.
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  Speaker 1: When you look at Occam's razor, the likeliest outcome here
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  Speaker 1: is that he left this there by mistake while he
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  Speaker 1: was committing these gruesome crimes.
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  Speaker 2: It could be.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's almost as if, and we've seen this
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  Speaker 1: with other killers. It's their calling card.
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  Speaker 2: I got this.
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  Speaker 1: She said, especially if you think you're smarter than everybody else.
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  Speaker 1: And he certainly, he had gloves. At least that's what's
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  Speaker 1: presumed that he had gloves. He tried to cover himself,
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  Speaker 1: did something to dispose of the clothing. If he is
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  Speaker 1: in fact the killer, then of course, this is something
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  Speaker 1: that could have just been a calling card and he
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  Speaker 1: left it there.
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  Speaker 2: That's certainly possible. Look, I can't point you to.
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  Speaker 1: Evidence that says this definitely happened, but at the same time,
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  Speaker 1: I can't say that it didn't happen. We just don't
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  Speaker 1: know yet. So it really comes down to what you
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  Speaker 1: think is the most likeliest outcome. And for me, the
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  Speaker 1: most likeliest outcome here, as far as the sheath was
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  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger left it there on accident in the middle
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  Speaker 1: of his rage. Obviously I'm just some knucklehead sitting in
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  Speaker 1: the studio watching, with only a small amount of the information,
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  Speaker 1: just like everybody else. But usually the most likeliest outcome
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  Speaker 1: is the right outcome. And when it comes to something
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  Speaker 1: like this and Brian Koberger leaving the she there on
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  Speaker 1: purpose or it being an accident, either way, leaving that
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  Speaker 1: she there is.
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  Speaker 2: A stupid ass idea.
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  Speaker 1: And if you left it there on purpose as a
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  Speaker 1: calling card, that might even be stupider than it being
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  Speaker 1: an accident, right? So let me leave you a calling
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  Speaker 1: card with my DNA on it so you can come
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  Speaker 1: and find me. Real smooth job, Hannibal Lecter. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: is this guy for real? Because if you really left
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  Speaker 1: that there as a calling card, this might go down
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  Speaker 1: as one of the dumbest crimes in the history of
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  Speaker 1: dumb crimes. Right up there with his buddy BTK and
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  Speaker 1: the stupid ass floppy disk. All of these I'm smarter
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  Speaker 1: than everybody else people always end up being the biggest
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  Speaker 1: jackasses and dumb fucks in the room. And it's certainly
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  Speaker 1: looking like Brian Koberger is no different from the little
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  Speaker 1: bit amount of evidence that we have available to us. Obviously,
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  Speaker 1: wherever that evidence goes, we're going to follow it. If
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  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's lawyers came out tomorrow with some bombshell evidence
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  Speaker 1: pointing at somebody else, we would chase that evidence as well.
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  Speaker 1: because what really matters is that the person who is
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  Speaker 1: responsible for murdering these four college kids is held accountable
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  Speaker 1: and goes to prison. And according to the probable cause
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  Speaker 1: affidavit and according to the authorities, Brian Kohlberger is that man.
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  Speaker 2: All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one.
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  Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: at Bobby Capucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: can also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: The link that I discussed can be found in the
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  Speaker 1: description box.