Latest / Half the Picture / #15 - SIMON CELLAN JONES

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#15 - SIMON CELLAN JONES · Half the Picture

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Ma'ch chi cael'r mi experiencedl ond ll ojosigh Dliwodraeth
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hyrnyny—uddoio un honk haw i wedi,
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I gyna'n deft?
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Rwy'n ei gwrs i'rwy'n gwasio ymgyd.
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Joc edrych nhw edrych gyda'r cymud hynny.
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Ym yn ym yn ddynny, mynd i fod yn amg i fan.
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A o yw rwy'n gwaith?
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Rwy'n ddynny, mynd i fod yn amod yn ddynny.
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Mae'n ddych chi, mynd, am canynafndi bod yn ddych chi.
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I am so pleased to say that our guest this episode is director Simon Kellan Jones,
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whose new film with Mark Wahlberg, the family plan 2, is out in cinemas today.
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I had so much fun chatting to Simon on this episode of the podcast
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and diving deep into his process shooting family plan 2 of Mark Wahlberg,
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you know, the sort of improvisational nature and quality of that shoot,
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working with raptors like Mark and obviously Michelle Monahan and the rest of the great cast.
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And we also found time to dive into some of Simon's other work,
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you know, his television work, like Generation in Kill with David Simon,
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who wrote the wire, of course, and also stuff like years and years with Russell Z Davis.
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So there's a lot of fun sort of diving deep into all those different areas of Simon on this episode.
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So without further ado, let's roll on my conversation with Simon Kellan Jones.
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Enjoy.
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Hello, welcome to the show, Simon. How are you doing?
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Hello there, thrilled to be here, doing great.
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Excellent. So we've got you on today to talk about your new film with Mark Wahlberg,
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the family plan 2, which is due out in a few weeks.
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And it's interesting watching that film and also sort of going back and looking at your career
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as a filmmaker and a television director,
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because you've had an incredibly distinguished career over the course of it,
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you know, you've directed some amazing stuff, you know, on big and small screens,
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stuff like years and years and Generation Kill and Jessica Jones.
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And now you and Mark Wahlberg have kind of partnered up and you've done a few films together.
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And I guess as a kickoff, I mean, as a fan of Wahlberg, I wanted to ask like,
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how did he, how did you guys sort of partner up to work on the family plan films?
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Was he a fan of yours? Did he reach out because he was a fan to get you on board?
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I knew him a little bit because I've worked a lot with his producer before
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and Mark indeed was a executive producer on a few things I did.
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And then I think it was honestly one of those lucky things, I think,
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where he was doing a film called Arthur the King that was absolutely good to go
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and because of COVID, you know, dates shifted, they lost their director,
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they needed someone at short notice.
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And I went, boom, I'm available.
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I'm not saying they were desperate, but they needed someone to start soon.
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And it worked out great.
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And, you know, I was nervous because it was a bigger film than I'm used to with,
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you know, I've worked with lots of big actors, but you know,
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Mark is pretty up there as a movie star.
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And it turns out he is utterly delightful to work with.
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He's funny, he's supportive, he's inclusive, he's talented, he's professional.
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And although he's my boss basically because he's produced as well,
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that's not how he rolls.
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And we got on great, we had a lot of fun, we liked to work in a similar way.
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And then then he said, oh, how about this next one?
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And then, you know, the next one.
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So it's a lovely, lovely thing for me.
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Fantastic, that's great to hear because, as I say, I'm a fan of his.
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I mean, going back obviously to the early days on Stuff Like Boogie Nights
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and all the way up through departed all those great films.
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I mean, because that was one ex-question actually that you touched on there
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was, I was going to ask, like, what was he like to work with not only as a star,
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as an actor, but also as a producer on the film?
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Because did he have quite a hands-on sort of approach to the films
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that you guys have made that he's produced?
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He's very gentle and he's very, he doesn't push his way in.
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But he's one of those guys that doesn't really need to do much
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because the film just gets made.
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So, you know, he's one of the few people who can pick up the phone
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that speaks a pretty well, well, anyone in the world.
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So, you know, it's like you're, you've got this amazing support system.
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He's not shouting at people, he's not sort of giving orders.
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But, you know, he knows what he wants.
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He knows the sort of film he wants to make and we talk about that.
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And he's a sort of both a secret weapon and a very clear and open weapon
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in any film you make.
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Interesting, that's great to hear.
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We've the family plan two then because, so I've watched the film.
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It was a privilege to see it before it goes out on the 21st of November.
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Having seen the first one as well, they're a really nice mix.
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I mean, one of my favorite things about them is that there's such a nice mix
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of both action and comedy with this kind of family-friendly tone.
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And when I was watching back the movies,
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you have that core unit of, you know, the family.
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I mean, I guess the basic premise being that, you know,
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Mark Warburg is this kind of ex-government assassin who then kind of
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is in deep cover and he has, you know, he has been for years and he,
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he has a whole family with Michelle Monahan and then his cover gets rumbled
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and then he can ask, they have to go on the run but as a family unit.
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And so you have this real mix of high jinks with the family,
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but also with the action, with the, you know, the assassins that are kind of pursuing them.
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And with that core family unit of like Mark and Michelle and then the children,
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like there's such a great palpable sense of chemistry between all of them.
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Like it feels very lived in and real.
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And I was, I guess I just wanted to ask like what was the casting process
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like for those four, obviously Mark was, you know, from the beginning,
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but like getting the rest of them in and also just like making that sort of,
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those less ships feel lived in and alive on screen as a director.
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Well, it was, I mean, we got really lucky with Michelle because I mean,
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she was, she was a class act, you know, and has been for a while,
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but she just slotted in so well because she doesn't come in and play the little
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second lead wife, you know, she's not, she's not that sort of person.
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She's in there.
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She's like, it came across that Mark and Michelle were kind of equals
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because and as parents, ideally, you will be equals and indeed,
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she's often even maybe a better parent than he is in the, in the story.
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But so that was a, that gave, gave us a real lift because they got such fun
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and simple chemistry with each other and they love working with each other.
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They had a real love and we just, again, we got lucky with the kids.
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We met lots of people.
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These, this is a couple of years ago now and, you know, in Zoe and van,
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we just found those people who, you know, I've got, I've got kids about that age
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and I adore them and they're brilliant and they drive me mad sometimes.
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And of course, I do the same to them.
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That's, that's one of the fun things about this film and, you know,
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we've seen several films where people used to be an assassin and then suddenly
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they get working up.
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But what I like about these films is they've got a really normal family
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at the core of them, even though there's an interesting story to them.
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They just, you know, they argue about homework and gaming and, you know,
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phone use and all these things.
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And it's, it's basically not a nuclear family,
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but it's a sort of straightforward, recognizable, identifiable family on that
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front end because as you say, the films are kind of at their core.
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They're so explicitly about not only the family unit in terms of like the plot
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of the movies, but like the themes are all, it's all about the importance of family
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and the relationships between family members.
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And I guess for you as the director, did these movies then making them
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and making them with Mark and Michelle and the rest of the gang like,
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is it, is it, do they resonate with you personally?
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Obviously, as you say, as a family, family man yourself.
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Very, very much so.
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Yeah, you know, it's interesting, this, this film here is that because the characters
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are a little bit older, the kids instead of sort of having first boyfriend
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and girlfriend or doing too much gaming, you know, the kids are starting
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to think about going to college and leaving the family home.
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And I think that's not ever a parent's nightmare, but it's a, it's a journey
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for every parent.
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And in, in our film, we see Dan and played by Mark really desperate to keep the
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family together as long as he can.
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And the idea of them spending a Christmas support is awful for him.
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So plus, you know, there's this sort of crazy person out there coordinating
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loads of gangsters to try and kill them all.
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Yeah, no, so they've got a lot on their plate.
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That, that was actually going to be my next question because Kite Harrington
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plays the baddie in this one.
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It's sort of Karen Hines played the baddie in the first one.
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And at what point did you guys know that you wanted to kick who obviously
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is such a distinctive screen presence?
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What point did you know you wanted him for the movie?
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Well, we always wanted him and then there was a little bit, we weren't sure
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whether he was going to be available and, you know, because we, and then we had
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to, and then when we locked our dates, and I think we would just got lucky.
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You know, we met a few people, but Kite was always the guy, to be honest with you.
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And it just, we got lucky.
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His dates worked.
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He was excited to do the script and, and you know, he loves Mark, you know,
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I think it was really fun for him to do it.
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I mean, he might, he might say, oh, my God, it was a nightmare.
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But actually, I think he had a really good time.
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Oh, we would definitely work with him again.
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And what were those two like together?
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Because obviously, Mark and Kite have so many sort of scenes where they're really,
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sort of, you know, they're, they're grilled to grill there.
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You know, fighting, you know, Georgia, and it's quite intense.
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I mean, was it, was it a fun shoot with them?
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I'm sorry to say it was such fun.
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Yeah.
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I mean, obviously, it was hard work.
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And we, you know, we, we're serious about our work.
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And we don't want to mess about Mark sets a great tone as an actor,
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because he, he always shows up on time.
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He knows all his lines.
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He's got a plan for what he wants to do, and he treats everyone really well.
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So we're all going, oh, okay, he's going to be good.
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So we better raise our game here.
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And I think that's a, that's one of, one of the things I love about him is that he
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empowers people to do good work.
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He doesn't sort of shout at people and tell them how to be good.
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He just gives them the space, and I, and I think it's very empowering.
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Mm.
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And I guess it kind of levels the playing field for everyone.
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Everyone can kind of feel comfortable to do their best work if,
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like, you know, the mood comes from the top down is what is the feeling that I'm getting.
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Very much.
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Very much.
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So yeah, it does.
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And he is the top, but he really, he really sets the tone.
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Fantastic.
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And, and, and on the subject of the shoot, because it's interesting that we,
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we're talking about the film, there's a, there's a whole sequence in the film
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that's set in Brick Lane, because there's, there's a part of the movie.
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There's a globe trial element in the movie, which I don't think is a sequence to anyone
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who's seen the trailer that, that, you know, Mark and the family,
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they come to visit the daughter in London, and she's staying in Brick Lane.
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And actually, our officers are based in Brick Lane.
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Like there's not that whole, yeah, that whole sequence is right on our doorstep.
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So watching it is, I was like, oh, it's like, no, I'm going to be in there.
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Then it's tomorrow morning, you know, working, you know, working.
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Oh, that's, that's fun.
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Yeah, of course, I mean, you know, it's a famous old street.
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I mean, many, many years ago, I used to turn up at four in the morning
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to the same bagel shops that are still there, you know, after a big night out.
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I think that's still a bit of a tradition.
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I think it's scaled up a little bit, but it's still pretty cool, I think, Brick Lane, isn't it?
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Oh, absolutely.
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Yeah.
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And those bagel shops are still going strong.
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I mean, was your, what was your favorite?
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Did you go for the salt beef and gherkin?
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Is that, I'm afraid I did.
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Yeah, I'm afraid I did.
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Well, it's a classic, you know, they, they do amazing canolies as well in those bagel shops.
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I mean, it's actually a temptation not to go every lunch break to go and get a bagel.
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It's, it's a great sort of, you know, vibrant area.
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And I think you captured some of that on the screen, you know, when they first arrived
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and there's like, I think it's a crane shot of them coming through the, yeah, the hubbub of it.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's great.
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And there's a lot, there's a lot of lovely graffiti there, which some of which we were able to feature.
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Obviously, we wanted everything to look great, but we didn't want, you know,
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Nina, who's like a sort of middle-class person, not that rich.
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We didn't want her to be living in Sloan Square or, you know,
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you know, like, didn't want it to be unrealistic.
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So I think that's sort of where she would have lived.
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Yeah, I appreciate that in the film.
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You get a nice mix of sort of yellow state, the hotel that they're saying in it's just,
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you know, they sent James's part, but then you get a bit of the stand,
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you get a bit of, you know, the west end, you can't use Central,
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you get a nice mix of the sort of, you get a sense of the cosmopolitan sort of vibe of the city,
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which is nice to see.
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In terms of that globe-trying element, then, that we talk about.
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So, you know, as we say, the second film sort of spans from, you know,
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America to London to Paris.
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There's a whole stretch film in Paris.
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And the first one, obviously, you know, takes place, you know,
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there's a globe-trying element, road movie element to that too,
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where they go to the travel to Las Vegas for the third act.
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Thinking about the sort of globe-trying element of the film,
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I was curious to ask, where whose idea is that, does that originate with?
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I mean, some think it was that sort of,
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as Mark being the producer that he is,
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did he sort of sit down and go, oh, you know,
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be fun to do this one if we sort of give it an international flavour
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and we can go and visit all these different locations.
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Or was that Dave Coxall in the writers room doing that?
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Was that yourself?
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I think it's all of us really.
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I mean, yeah, you know, obviously, Mark,
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we very much keep in touch with him.
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You know, I think we were all keen to film in London,
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because it's such a classic city.
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You know, as you say, the first film was a sort of a road movie.
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We're ending up, Sonny and Buffalo, which is a sort of beautiful,
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but kind of distant part of New York,
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and then ending up in Las Vegas,
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which is one of the maddest cities in the world.
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But fun, but mad.
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So, yeah, London Paris had a sort of real classic thing,
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and I think Americans love the way those cities look.
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I used to be a location manager years ago,
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so I claimed to know London pretty well.
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And, you know, it was, we wanted to keep the travelling thing going as well.
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And then, in terms of the rest of the cast,
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you've got people like Sandra Baskara in there,
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who's amazing, who's always great.
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I mean, did you know, when you were reading that script,
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was that where you thinking,
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oh, that could be a great part for Sandra Yves to get in there?
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Definitely, I mean, well, as you know, he's a legend, that boy.
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Oh, and he's fantastic.
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He's lovely to work with.
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But I think, you know, that's the nice thing about this film,
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like this, you can get good actors,
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and there's sort of, they're there for a few days,
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and they have a good time, and they're in interesting scenes,
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so I think they're up for it.
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That's really makes things fun.
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Hmm, that's excellent.
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So you didn't have to sort of push too hard.
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They were kind of like, oh, no, I'm in.
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I want to do it, let's go.
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Oh, yeah, we have to, obviously.
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Yeah, you have to, to campaign to get them.
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But, yeah, I think they were, they were definitely open.
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So yeah.
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It's going back to Mark and Michelle
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and the great chemistry they have.
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I mean, the opening of the film, I won't spoil it,
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but it's a terrific opening with them,
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too, they share a very sort of funny, romantic sort of tetatet scene.
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It's palpable the chemistry that they have,
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and I feel like Michelle, on one hand,
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and Mark, as well, but I think I've always been a fan of hers,
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and I feel like she's someone who's just so charismatic
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on screen that she could kind of have great chemistry
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with basically anyone.
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That's the vibe that I can get, and...
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Well, that's, I think that's probably true.
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I mean, she's so easy to hang out with,
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and she's, I mean, she's been,
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she's been a big actor for a while now,
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but she's really having a moment now,
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I mean, with the family plan, also,
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in white Lotus, she was fantastic.
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I don't know if you saw that.
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Of course.
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But she's, yeah, I mean, she's lovely with the crew,
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and I think, I think what she does, again,
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she's very professional, but she loves what she does.
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I think she has just enough confidence to be able to enjoy it,
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but where it doesn't become sort of arrogance,
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or whatever, she's just at that lovely level
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of being excited about what she's doing.
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And, you know, as you say,
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she's gorgeous and funny and cool.
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So, you know, I think anybody would have
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good chemistry with her, yes.
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And she has such a great sense of humour as well.
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I mean, that really comes true, that she...
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I mean, was there...
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Well, there are a lot of laughs on set,
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because obviously the tone of the film is comedic.
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I mean, was it...
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I understand that, like, what are you doing comedy?
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It can be such a technical thing
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that it can actually be a lot of very difficult
15:44
and hard to get right,
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and sometimes it feels like comedy's great fun to watch,
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but are very tough to make.
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And did it feel a bit like that on set?
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Was it kind of quite...
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Was it some of those sort of scenes quite tough to get right,
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even though they're very...
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They seem very effortless.
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Well, they were tough to get right sometimes,
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but what was nice about the actors is, again, you know,
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starting from Mark, but very much backed up by Michelle.
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They quite like a little bit of improvisation.
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They like to keep it a bit fresh.
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So it's not like, you know, crazy making it up as you go along,
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but it's like reacting to a situation.
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So I thought, you know, when you what the script was
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and they sort of started out maybe sticking to the script
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and then they go off the script
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and so I think, as a crew, we were surprised.
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And so yes, we were laughing during the takes.
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You know, I had to, you know, sort of almost walk away
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because I was at the sound map, it's shouting at me.
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I mean, did that reminds me of when Paul Thomas Aniston,
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who's obviously worked with Mark on Booganites,
16:40
was making Fat and Fred with Dona Deloist
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and he couldn't stop laughing at some of the stuff
16:44
that Dona Deloist was doing.
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So Deloist said, like, right, out, you know,
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we need to shoot the scene.
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And PTA was like, okay, fine, and he got up and left
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because he just couldn't stop laughing.
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I mean, would you ever get to that point where you were
16:55
and it's like, all right, I got it.
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I absolutely had to, I mean, because, you know,
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it does it, the actors are just kind of glad
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that they're getting the right reaction,
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but it's very distracting for them.
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So, you know, I had to, I had to apologize several times.
17:10
And is that improvisational sort of quality
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that Mark and Michelle are bringing to the, to the shoot?
17:14
Is that, does that extend to the other actors,
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like like the two kids?
17:17
Because being in the same room is like, yeah,
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you've got your acting opposite,
17:20
Mark Wahlberg and Michelle Monahan, who are both great,
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as well as Kit and, you know, Sanjeef as well.
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I guess it must be maybe a bit intimidating
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for younger actors.
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Would they okay with that?
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Well, they were because, because we've already done a film
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before together.
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I think this time, they were more confident.
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And they, you know, they were, they gave a good account
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of themselves.
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They were, you know, those Van and Zoe were,
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and even the two twins occasionally would throw in some singers.
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So Van and Zoe, they really had,
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one of the things I love the most about the movies is that,
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is like I say, it's that lived in family dynamic.
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And it does feel lived in, it does feel authentic.
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And it does feel something that can only,
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any arise from people, obviously,
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who are really good, but also really enjoy working together.
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And so, you know, it really crackles.
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So touching on, I guess, so your broader career,
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because like I say, researching your career,
18:08
it was, it's a fascinating career to sort of dive into.
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I mean, you've done so much great work.
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And so these films, the family plan movies,
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I guess you've returned to sort of the big screen work.
18:21
Because for a long time, you did a lot of work in television,
18:23
but then in the early naughties, you made your first two films,
18:26
some voices in the one and only.
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And I guess as someone who's straddled film and television
18:31
throughout your whole career,
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and it seems to sort of be able to dip into both,
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so sort of effectively, what is the difference
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between working in film and then working in television,
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would you say?
18:41
Deep down, there isn't much of a difference,
18:44
because if you don't have a good script and a good actor
18:47
and a good crew, you're screwed.
18:49
Um, absolutely.
18:51
And, you know, working on a, say,
18:53
a biggest show like Bordeaux Kemper or Generation Kill,
18:58
you know, there's a big scale to it.
19:00
I mean, films tend to have a little bit more money,
19:02
but as you know, TV now,
19:04
it's amazing the money they spend on TV series.
19:09
So I thought, you know, I think everyone says that TV
19:12
can tell a story over a longer period,
19:14
which is absolutely true.
19:15
If you take a show like Successful or whatever,
19:17
there's a real long-running thing.
19:20
You know, what I love about a movie is that it's a sort of
19:23
one and done thing.
19:24
You're in there, it's a busy, tough shoot.
19:27
You know, 90 or 100 minutes and you put it out there
19:31
and the audience loves it, or they don't.
19:35
Yeah, and then you just move on to the next one.
19:38
I guess whereas TV, it's more of a long-term commitment.
19:40
And is that kind of liberating then as a sort of,
19:42
who has worked in both, like having done some great,
19:44
like because in recent years,
19:45
like I say, you worked on years and years
19:46
with Russell T. Davis, which is fantastic.
19:48
And then, you know, then started working with Mark.
19:50
I mean, was it quite liberating then,
19:51
going from sort of that commitment of television directing
19:53
to like, okay, now, you know, going back to film?
19:56
It was, it was, and you know, they give you,
19:59
they give you a little bit of leeway as a director,
20:02
unless they find out that you're an idiot
20:04
and then they give you an leeway at school.
20:06
So you know, it's a bit scary,
20:09
because you're supposed to, as a director,
20:11
you're sort of not in charge exactly,
20:14
but you're more responsible for bringing the film in
20:17
in the right way financially, but certainly creatively.
20:20
But that's exciting too, you know,
20:22
that you, they put a little bit of trust in you,
20:25
which is scary, but very rewarding.
20:28
Hmm, so with, so your first two films,
20:31
as I say, you directed, you know, some voices
20:33
and the one and only, back in the early naughties.
20:36
As someone who is obviously, you know,
20:37
a fan of British films and you yourself, you know,
20:38
you've worked in the British film industry
20:40
before going to America, I guess,
20:42
with the family plan and Apple TV.
20:44
I mean, I wanted to ask what your opinion was
20:46
on the British film industry generally
20:47
in terms of like, new filmmakers and like the,
20:50
this sort of maybe some of the difficulties that they face,
20:52
you know, in terms of financing and support,
20:53
because I feel like there's a rule sometime,
20:57
I, I, I, and it's maybe this me, you know,
20:59
could be wrong here, but something I've noticed
21:00
with some sort of new filmmakers is in Britain,
21:03
is that like, if you wanted to make indigenous British films,
21:05
it could be hard to get a lot of films made
21:07
because in this country, obviously,
21:09
there isn't a huge film industry
21:11
like there is in America.
21:12
And I guess I just wanted to ask your opinion on that.
21:14
Well, we have a, we have a medium-sized film industry,
21:17
I think, and we have some great British actors,
21:19
and also I used a sort of 90% British crew on this film.
21:23
And my God, they were fantastic.
21:25
I mean, perhaps we got lucky,
21:27
but they were just like the cream of the crop.
21:30
Yeah, I think, you know, that the film and TV world
21:33
has sort of changed crazily in the last 10 years.
21:36
You know, the streaming thing is upended it,
21:39
mostly in a good way, I think,
21:41
mostly in an exciting way.
21:44
You know, everyone talks about the golden age of TV or whatever,
21:47
but, you know, we're going through one of them, I would say.
21:50
And, you know, there's this, there's this new version
21:53
where you do a sort of big-ish budget film,
21:56
but it ends up on a streamer,
21:58
which you could say, oh, it'd be great
21:59
if it was on a, on a big screen,
22:01
but actually it's a sort of totally different form of access.
22:03
And, you know, I found working with Apple to be fantastic.
22:07
They are filmmakers.
22:08
I mean, they're not product manufacturers.
22:11
They have worked on this.
22:12
They were filmmakers.
22:14
So, you know, I've had a really rewarding experience with them.
22:18
That's great to hear, because I get the sense about Apple
22:20
that they do really care about the films and the filmmakers.
22:23
I mean, obviously putting out stuff like Scorsese,
22:24
killers of the flower moon.
22:26
Yeah, they really seem to care about.
22:28
So, what were they, in terms of on this film then,
22:30
were they kind of, they were just very happy
22:32
just to, like, let you do your thing
22:33
and then they'll watch and see, you know, how they look.
22:36
Yeah, I mean, they're a few they just,
22:38
they're a few of the audience, of course.
22:40
But, yeah, they were very supportive.
22:42
And I think they liked the first one
22:45
and the first one did okay for them.
22:47
So, they were up for making a second.
22:48
And, you know, we'll see how it does.
22:50
But I've got my fingers crossed
22:52
that the audiences will like this one
22:54
as much as they like the last one.
22:56
But, yeah, no, they definitely keep an eye
22:59
and let you know what they think.
23:00
But they're also very pro filmmaker.
23:03
They very much want to support the people
23:04
they're working with.
23:05
And then, as a filmmaker,
23:07
you saw one who, do you care about sort of,
23:09
I feel like, because there are some filmmakers
23:11
who are very outspoken about, like,
23:12
I guess, like a Scorsese or a Portima Sanson
23:14
who really want their, or a Christopher Nolan,
23:16
who want their films to be seen
23:17
on the biggest screen possible.
23:19
And then, even though they'll work
23:20
with, like, Apple TV or Netflix,
23:22
and that will go, that film will go to streaming.
23:24
They will still be like,
23:26
there'll be stipulation going,
23:27
I want this in a cinema.
23:28
I mean, is that something that's,
23:29
really, is important to you as well?
23:30
Like, you want this on a big screen?
23:32
Well, yes, I tell you the tricky thing,
23:35
which I hope that people watch this film
23:39
on the best and biggest TV possible.
23:41
Now, of course, they might choose to watch it on their phone
23:43
and it'll be great.
23:44
And that's fair enough.
23:45
And that's the audiences of the people
23:47
who make the choices, not last week.
23:48
I can't tell them what to do.
23:50
But I think that, you know,
23:53
if you're watching this film
23:55
with a good sound system
23:56
on a big, good quality screen,
23:58
then you are going to get a big, big effect out of it.
24:02
So I think you're not being banished
24:04
to little tiny TVs with the stream.
24:06
As I think, a lot of people who watch them
24:09
take their movies very seriously
24:11
and want to watch those movies
24:12
in the very best way they can.
24:14
Yeah, I was thinking this as I was watching
24:16
because there's some great spets, Clint.
24:17
I called the stuff in Paris with the park court.
24:19
There are some scenes with some park, with parkour
24:21
and that, which would obviously look amazing on a big screen.
24:24
And, you know, the stuff between Kit and Mark
24:26
and, you know, their face offs,
24:27
even like some of their face offs that are just, you know,
24:30
dialogue, you know, would be like,
24:32
a great, because they've got such a great, you know,
24:34
there's such a great antagonism, you know, between the two.
24:37
So I guess on that subject then,
24:38
I've sort of TV and film,
24:40
because, as I say, you know,
24:41
you've done incredible stuff
24:42
with writers like Russell T. Davis on years and years
24:44
and then David Simon on Generation Kill
24:47
and obviously Jessica Jones of Bullwalk Empire,
24:49
all these incredible people that you've worked with.
24:51
I mean, what kind of lessons do you think you've taken
24:53
from working with someone like David Simon on Generation Kill
24:56
or Russell T. Davis on years and years?
24:58
I mean, they have applied to your own work.
25:01
Well, people like David Simon and Russell,
25:04
you know, they're big writers with big ideas.
25:08
My god, I learnt so much working with David Simon.
25:11
He writes very, very detailed scripts.
25:14
He's, as you know, he's obsessed with authenticity.
25:16
He writes really detailed stage directions,
25:20
showing lots exactly what a character's thinking
25:23
and doing and stuff.
25:25
And I've said to him,
25:25
how come you just write so much detail
25:27
in all these stage directions
25:29
when most people will just leave it,
25:31
leave it to the director to work out?
25:33
And he says, I'm trying to write a director proof script.
25:36
And what does he mean by that?
25:40
What a director.
25:41
He doesn't want me to screw it up.
25:43
He's got a clear idea of what he wants.
25:45
But, you know,
25:47
wow, it was a thrill working with him.
25:49
That guy, that guy is serious.
25:51
He's brilliant.
25:52
He's very funny.
25:53
He's really friendly.
25:55
You know, he's not some power-crazed guy.
25:58
He's the sort of, he loves being on set.
26:01
He loves working with directors and actors.
26:03
He loves it when it feels true.
26:06
Hmm.
26:07
Well, I think like truth,
26:08
where you talk to directors,
26:09
and you know, which I've done through this part,
26:12
it feels like truth is something that obviously,
26:14
if ever that'd be emotional for the actors or the script,
26:17
it feels like that's like the key,
26:18
the X-Factor that obviously that you're looking for on set.
26:21
Would you say that's the case?
26:23
Truth is always the thing you're after,
26:28
whether you know what kind of truth you want,
26:30
and whether you recognize it when you see it,
26:33
of course, are different matters,
26:34
because truth is a sort of moving, fluid thing.
26:38
But yeah, you want some kind of grounding in authenticity.
26:43
I mean, you know, we're dealing with a guy who's a former assassin,
26:46
and those people do exist, of course,
26:50
but you know, there's not millions of them around.
26:52
So you could say that's kind of heightened storyline,
26:54
but what we're looking for is a sort of grounded authenticity
26:58
in the family, in the family of it all.
27:01
So yeah, that's the kind of truth we were after.
27:04
Hmm. And on some of the other projects then,
27:05
like Generation Kill, you mentioned of David Simon,
27:07
like what was the sort of truth that you were sort of searching for there?
27:11
It was a sort of, I think we all, you know, led by David,
27:16
but all of us wanting to, you know, it was from a book
27:20
that was a documentary piece of reportage.
27:24
So we were coming from real material,
27:27
and it was based on real characters.
27:28
So the idea there was to get it as real as possible.
27:33
And David, you know, famously said,
27:35
I'm really making this TV show for 25 Marines.
27:38
Who are the guys who are featured in the show?
27:43
And in fact, we went, we showed it at Camp Pedalton
27:46
in California, San Diego.
27:48
All right.
27:49
Two of a bunch of Marines.
27:50
And of course, they loved it, because it was so real.
27:54
Well, I remember David Simon saying that when he was research
27:57
in Generation Kill, like he would be talking to the Marines
28:00
and the Squadies, and they would love,
28:01
they love all those war movies, like Full Metal Jack here,
28:04
and like, you know, and even stuff like, you know,
28:06
Paths of Glory and Patoon, obviously, like, you know,
28:07
it's kind of baked into almost the DNA of like the whole idea
28:11
of the American military.
28:12
And was that what you found as well when you were sort of,
28:14
I guess, working with the actors,
28:15
but also talking to the actual Marines?
28:18
Yeah, it's funny.
28:19
I was working on a pilot of a TV show called The Diplomat,
28:23
and we were actually filming in the real American Embassy
28:26
in London.
28:27
And of course, they have an honor guard at work,
28:29
more than an honor guard of real Marines,
28:32
who basically run security.
28:34
And potentially, it's a very big job that.
28:37
And we met the Marines, and then they found out
28:39
that I'd direct a generation kill,
28:41
and my standing just went right up like that.
28:43
Your street cred went through the roof.
28:45
Street cred, absolutely.
28:47
Oh, that's fantastic.
28:48
And I guess one last thing about David Salman,
28:50
just because I have to ask just as a fan, like,
28:52
I mean, you're going to get your interactions with him
28:54
as a director, and he obviously being this writer
28:56
and he's directing, director proofing his scripts.
28:58
Like, it was he kind of, so he wasn't precious,
29:00
even though he was doing that.
29:01
He wasn't precious about, like, what was he like
29:03
to work with on the set?
29:04
He was lovely.
29:05
I mean, he would have been precious if I tried
29:07
to change the script, you know.
29:09
I'd say, oh, David, don't worry, we're going to improvise.
29:11
Here we go.
29:12
So sure about that, thanks.
29:15
So he was, he wasn't precious, but he was precise.
29:19
He had a vision, which, you know, he, he, fortunately,
29:23
I just shared it.
29:24
I loved what he'd done, and that's exactly the film
29:27
I wanted to make.
29:28
I, you know, if I hadn't liked it, then either I wouldn't
29:31
have done it, or I'd have done it,
29:32
and we would not have gone on, and it would be in a nightmare.
29:35
But I just, I just love what he wanted to do,
29:39
and wanted to do the same thing.
29:40
So we got on great.
29:43
I was just thinking it was a great match of, you know, of people.
29:45
Yeah.
29:46
Amazing.
29:47
And that improvisational sort of nature
29:49
that you sort of talk about just there.
29:51
I mean, like, obviously, on the family plans one and two,
29:53
it sounded like there was quite a lot of improvisation
29:56
between the actors.
29:57
Is that something that you like to foster?
29:59
Because I feel like some directors are quite sort of,
30:01
some of them love to sort of improvise
30:02
and sort of open it up to the actors.
30:04
But then I think some are very rigid in like,
30:06
this is the script, let's do it.
30:08
I think it's very much, it's very story or script
30:11
or the writer you're working with, dependent or whatever,
30:14
or the actors you're working with.
30:15
I think it's a great thing to be able to do
30:18
because, you know, even if you're sticking very
30:21
religiously to the script, it's quite nice to sort of break
30:23
the wall a tiny bit in later take.
30:25
Just, you know, just keeps things fresh.
30:28
Mm-hmm.
30:29
And some of the scenes in like family plans
30:31
are like, where there's a scene in a Chinese restaurant.
30:33
That felt kind of like it had that sort of spontaneous energy.
30:36
Was that one of those scenes where you was like,
30:38
okay, let's open this up to, you know,
30:40
Mark and the show.
30:41
And then we'll just use what comes through.
30:43
I mean, do those, when you're improvising
30:44
and seeing like that, I guess,
30:45
or how adding an improvisational element,
30:47
do you just like have the camera rolling, like rolling take?
30:49
Let's just keep it rolling and see what comes up.
30:52
One of that's one of the reasons why I like using three cameras,
30:56
which is, some people would say is a sort of expensive luxury,
30:59
but actually it just helps you work faster.
31:02
If you use each of those cameras properly,
31:05
then, like you say, you can, you can,
31:08
the actors don't have to do so many takes
31:09
because you're covering three or four of them in one go.
31:12
And then so you just do a few takes
31:14
and then suddenly you go, okay, we got the scene.
31:17
So you can get some time more quickly.
31:18
And it, you know, actors love not having
31:22
to repeat themselves every time, you know,
31:24
because the fewer times they do it, if they're on form,
31:28
they go, okay, look, I've done this four times really well.
31:31
Why are we doing it another 16 times?
31:33
For sure.
31:35
You know, some, some, you know, David Fincher famously
31:38
will do 50 or more takes.
31:40
And, you know, that takes you into a completely different world.
31:43
And I respect that as well.
31:44
But, you know, there are so many ways to skin these cats.
31:49
It's like, yeah, you've got a one hand,
31:50
if you've got Fincher doing upwards of 50 takes,
31:52
I'm the other hand, you've got William Freak,
31:54
and you did like two takes, you know,
31:55
or one take, because all he was after was spontaneity,
31:59
as you say.
32:00
I guess as a director, then, where did you sort of hone
32:03
and learn and then hone that sort of craft of like,
32:06
okay, let's do free cameras, let's,
32:07
I know exactly how many we need for this scene,
32:09
you know, let's put one there,
32:10
three, you know, one there,
32:12
and let's shoot it like that.
32:13
Where do you think you came from?
32:15
I learned in low-budget TV.
32:18
I worked quite a lot when I was young at the BBC,
32:22
which I love.
32:23
It's probably not as good to work at now,
32:26
but because it's also splintered up.
32:27
But it was like, you know,
32:28
they probably spent too much money on certain things,
32:30
but it was a real hot house of talent and creation.
32:34
And yeah, I worked on shows in the BBC,
32:38
I worked on a sort of cop procedural show
32:41
called The Bill, Years and Years ago,
32:43
which was like, you know, you shoot it really fast
32:45
and you're getting real trouble if you overrun,
32:47
and you learn the hard way that you've got to,
32:50
you know, it's like those people doing B-movies
32:55
and having no budgets and having to work out
32:57
how to achieve the day's work and make it look cool.
32:59
So I would say that's, you know, whatever my talents,
33:04
they are helped by working in that TV world
33:08
all those years ago.
33:10
Well, you just have to work fast
33:12
and you have to get it in one day or two days,
33:14
and if you don't, then that's that.
33:15
So you have to deliver.
33:17
Exactly.
33:18
I feel like Russell, Richard Evers,
33:20
who, as we say, you worked on with Years and Years.
33:22
I want to say he has a fairly similar background,
33:24
because I want to say he started in sort of children's television
33:26
and the BBC in the 80s and 90s.
33:29
And I think he, my baby, he could say the same thing
33:32
that, you know, he really learned his craft
33:33
in that same sort of hot house environment.
33:35
I mean, yeah.
33:36
I mean, speaking of Russell,
33:37
what was it like working with him specifically on,
33:39
like, when we were talking about truth,
33:41
I mean, they're trying to find truth,
33:43
dim Simon and then with Mark on this film,
33:45
like, what was it like with Russell on that?
33:47
Oh, he's, he's, well, it really helps that he's a lovely man.
33:52
I really like it when they're nice.
33:55
But, you know, he's a, yeah, I would be careful
33:59
about using the word visionary,
34:00
but I think it might just be appropriate with him.
34:03
I think he thinks really, really big.
34:05
He's got a real individual style to his writing,
34:07
I think, following off.
34:09
I don't think that would be,
34:10
I'm not sure he'd have loved it,
34:11
but you didn't, when you read his stuff,
34:13
you go, well, we don't really need to improvise this.
34:15
There's sort of, there's such a lovely storyline.
34:18
Let's trust the script and let's go with it.
34:21
And he and I would also be going to have secret dinners
34:23
quite often.
34:24
We just, we just go and not, not get drunk at all,
34:27
but have a glass of wine and go have a lovely Italian meal
34:29
and just gossip and chat.
34:31
And he's such, such a lovely fun company
34:36
that he really, he really makes you sort of think
34:39
it's worthwhile.
34:39
That's amazing, because yeah,
34:41
he does seem like a very such a genuine sort of lovely
34:43
live chat chat.
34:44
And obviously, yeah, brilliant writer and creator.
34:47
I mean, when you talk about like David Simon direct
34:49
to proofing his scripts,
34:51
I'm guessing it is Russell like the opposite.
34:52
It was Russell similar as he complete opposite.
34:54
Like, no, this is, you know, this is for you.
34:56
That's, that's, that's, that's, that's it.
34:58
Russell gives you a lot of leeway,
34:59
but you know, there's certain things that he's really keen
35:02
to get.
35:03
And again, you know, I think any good director
35:05
is gonna have a good relationship with the writer.
35:08
And, you know, I think I spent a lot of time
35:10
with Russell talking about what he wanted,
35:14
sometimes saying what I wanted and just getting things clear.
35:17
So, you know, I would arrive on set,
35:19
I go, well, I remember Russell was really keen
35:21
that this scene didn't get too dark or serious
35:24
or, you know, whatever it, whatever it was.
35:27
So, that's, that's the collaboration thing
35:30
that I really love.
35:33
And then, because what you said there about how like
35:35
with the script, like you can,
35:36
Russell's voice sort of shines through like every line.
35:39
I feel like when you watch his stuff,
35:40
the stuff that he's written, you know,
35:41
his voice shines through every line.
35:43
It reminds me of where, what you just said there
35:45
reminds me of some actors saying like, you know,
35:48
you don't want to change anything in script
35:49
because like it's there.
35:50
It's like it's right there on the page.
35:51
All we have to do is bring it to life.
35:52
I mean, is that kind of how you feel about
35:55
doing something like years and years?
35:57
I think that's the sort of way we, we, we, we worked it out.
36:01
I mean, it's because he does have a sort of,
36:03
his writing style is, is very good
36:06
because it's quite heightened,
36:08
but it's very, very real and grounded.
36:10
And again, you know, that was interesting.
36:11
That was a, years and years was essentially
36:14
a show about a family, you know,
36:16
complicated, messy, very loving,
36:19
and occasionally disastrous family over over the years.
36:23
I know there was a lot of looking into the future and stuff.
36:26
And I don't think he was really looking into
36:29
being a fortune teller.
36:30
I think he was just looking to see how,
36:33
even if the world changed,
36:35
humanity and their relationships and their families
36:39
would kind of carry on doing the same stupid things
36:42
or the same loving things.
36:44
Yeah, well, it's something kind of,
36:46
I find something kind of almost comforting in that idea
36:48
that like human beings, and that's comforting and also frightening,
36:51
but I guess the comforting side of that idea
36:54
is that human beings have always and always will be human beings.
36:56
They're making the same mistakes,
36:57
but also performing the same sort of, I guess,
37:00
is corny that sounds same acts of kindness
37:02
and sort of, you know, empathy towards each other.
37:04
So that's something that I really appreciated in, in that show.
37:08
And it's funny, you mentioned the fortune teller element.
37:11
I mean, even just be watching the first episode,
37:13
like they matter of stuff you guys got right
37:15
in that sort of, that initial montage
37:17
where you sort of cover those first five years.
37:20
Queen Elizabeth Passes, you cover the Ukrainian Russian War,
37:23
you cover President Trump, getting back into power.
37:25
Like so much, I was watching this, like, you know,
37:27
rewatching it and just kind of my jaw was on the floor
37:30
without much of you guys nailed since,
37:32
because obviously that show came out in 2019
37:34
and then it's, you know, it goes up to, you know, it was really amazing.
37:37
That's it. I remember, yeah, I remember Russell,
37:39
so me and Russell talking about the Donald Trump and me.
37:42
And Russell say he's gonna, he's gonna, he's gonna be back as president
37:46
and then he lost the election to Biden.
37:50
And so he went, oh, Russell was wrong there.
37:52
And now look, and so Russell wasn't that wrong, was he?
37:56
No, he wasn't. He must have some kind of crystal ball
37:58
that he's got tucked away somewhere in, you know.
38:01
So going back to the family plan, I was curious,
38:04
because as I say, it's this great mix of tones, comedy, action,
38:08
you know, family, you know, drama and comedy.
38:10
What were some of the influences that you felt sort of,
38:13
you know, in you when you were making the movie?
38:15
And I guess what were some of the influences that you and Mark
38:17
as well talked about, you know, as he was producing the film?
38:20
Well, everyone loves sort of home alone for some reason.
38:24
I don't, I don't know why, but it's such a brilliant film.
38:27
Um, you know, it's, it's interesting because I watched,
38:31
I remember watching a fantastic film called A History of Violence,
38:35
which is a David Cronenberg movie, which has a kind of similar plot
38:41
to the first film, but is unimaginably dark,
38:45
whereas our film was not.
38:47
And I really sort of liked the idea of making a,
38:51
making a film that had some kind of, on one level,
38:54
a homage to a thing, but, you know, without a bit of,
38:56
I think, History of Violence is a fantastic film,
38:59
but obviously we didn't want that this,
39:00
because, you know, it would have been a repetition
39:03
and it would have been miserable.
39:05
But I think, I think that it was really interesting,
39:09
thinking of, thinking of that approach about trying to sort of,
39:15
you know, because the first film was about,
39:17
you could say it's a comedy about a father trying to kill his own son,
39:21
which obviously is not very funny, is it?
39:23
Well, you put it, when you put it like that, it's quite funny.
39:26
Yeah.
39:28
Well, I think it's about, you know, finding,
39:31
getting the elements from gangster movies and chase movies
39:36
and things like that.
39:38
And just trying to weave them together in a way that,
39:42
the film, even though it's got things you recognise,
39:45
it becomes its own thing.
39:47
Yeah, it's funny, because now you've said History of Violence,
39:49
I can totally see the through line from,
39:52
from Cronenberg through to what you guys have done.
39:54
I mean, that premise could so easily tip over into horror,
39:57
like, you know, of the family plan, but, you know,
39:59
the tonal sort of tightrope of making it funny
40:03
and, you know, an emotional, you know, with the family,
40:06
you know, you care about the family, you know,
40:09
especially, you know, the kids with the dad, you know.
40:12
Yeah, it's not to say it's a tightrope that you guys were walking,
40:14
I guess, tonally with it.
40:15
Were there any other sort of films that you would mark,
40:17
sort of bring you when you say you were sort of full of ideas?
40:19
Was he bringing sort of like, oh, you know, what about this?
40:21
What about this?
40:22
You know, since we're like, we could talk about this film
40:24
or referencing this or that kind of thing.
40:27
No, he was, I mean, he was really excited
40:30
and the first film, for example, he had to speak quite a lot of French
40:34
and then the second for me had to speak Chinese.
40:37
And the amount of work he did on that was unbelievable.
40:41
It was sort of rather glorious to see that a big movie star
40:44
will put in that kind of effort.
40:47
Yeah.
40:48
Sort of reassures you that not all is screwed
40:51
with the film industry if there are people like that still around.
40:54
But yeah, I mean, I sort of, you know,
40:56
I always have a little soft spot for those sort of edgy 70s action movies,
41:03
your action crime movies, you know,
41:05
the French connection is never too far from my heart.
41:08
You know, I still think that's one of the great car chases,
41:12
the French connection.
41:13
Incredible.
41:14
Incredible.
41:15
You know, yeah, I mean, I remember watching that dangerous thing
41:18
of watching, I watched all the good car chases basically
41:21
because we had a car chase in the last one and in this one.
41:25
And you go, well, look, you know, I'm probably not going to be quite as good as
41:30
when you're freaking or whatever, but you know,
41:32
I want to try and do something pretty cool here.
41:34
What is the, why I forget what the thing is,
41:37
amateur experts borrow, but genius is steel.
41:42
I don't know what the phrase is.
41:43
That's, it's Picasso.
41:44
It's like, you know, great artist steel,
41:46
but like mediocre artist, borrow.
41:48
That's right.
41:49
That's right.
41:50
Yeah.
41:51
Speaking of French connection, have you seen French connection too?
41:54
Of course.
41:55
My God.
41:56
Yeah.
41:57
Yeah.
41:58
Quite, quite, quite underrated, I'd say.
42:00
I mean, French connection ones, obviously, you know,
42:02
a stone pole classic, but I think French connection too
42:04
has got, you know, is actually pretty good, you know.
42:07
Right.
42:08
Very dark ending, isn't it?
42:09
Very dark.
42:10
I mean, the whole thing is basically a police execution, isn't it, at the end?
42:14
Yeah.
42:15
Essentially, and all the stuff of Gene Hatman basically, you know,
42:17
trying to get himself off heroin, you know,
42:20
if possible.
42:21
So it's really, they didn't, they didn't pull any punches really with that one.
42:24
John Frankenheimer, directs to that one.
42:26
So the guy who did Ronin in seconds,
42:28
another great car chase, obviously Ronin, from the 90s.
42:31
He said, you talk about that sort of great 70s.
42:33
Like, what are some of your other favourite films from that era that, you know,
42:36
other than French connection?
42:37
What are my absolute favourite films?
42:39
Is the graduate, which is like, you know, I think there's only a second movie,
42:44
although, of course, he's done lots of theatre, Mike Nichols.
42:47
And, I mean, like cowboy, I think he's a, is a stone-cold classic.
42:52
One for over the cookies nest.
42:54
I think, oh, I mean, I can quote, just reams of all that.
42:58
I think it wasn't, it wasn't George, you know, I think it was a,
43:01
wasn't extraordinary, sort of eight or nine year period of, of movies.
43:05
I think it's coincided with the zoom lens being invented.
43:08
I think that was the early 70s, which suddenly everyone went, oh my god,
43:11
the camera goes like that.
43:12
How incredible.
43:13
Let's just do it for an item.
43:16
Yeah, and everyone was using it.
43:18
Everyone from the top of like, you know, Kubrick to like, you know, I guess,
43:21
people making, you know, the B movies and the exploitation movies of the time.
43:24
It was like, everyone has got their hands on that tech.
43:26
And we're like, let's use it.
43:27
Exactly.
43:28
In that age of the 70s, then, like, was that way, that was when, I guess,
43:30
you were growing up and like, the, those films are really sort of getting infused into your bloodstream.
43:34
Is that fair to say that?
43:35
Yeah, I mean, that's when I started, but then, then, I don't know,
43:40
10 or 15 years ago, I sort of went back and revisited the 70s, you know,
43:45
with the, with the perhaps a little more wisdom and knowledge, not much, but a little more.
43:49
And I found that they really stand up so well, those movies.
43:53
They really, they lost, even though they're totally outdated.
43:58
Well, I dated, I guess, in some ways, but like, you can't fault, like,
44:01
if you go and watch, yeah, jaws, I mean, like, that's just timeless.
44:04
Yeah.
44:05
I mean, yeah, I guess the amazing thing about that time, for me, is like,
44:08
when I read about it and when I watch those movies, is the,
44:10
and the thing that a lot of those filmmakers who are making those films at the time
44:14
were saying, like, you know, the studios were so pro filmmaker,
44:17
they were all the studio heads were like filmmakers themselves.
44:20
They had, they had made films, they had worked in film.
44:22
And they really loved, like, you know, they'll be screening, like, you know,
44:26
Bergman films in between, in on their lunch breaks and stuff.
44:29
And like, in between, you know, in between meetings.
44:31
And I feel like you get that real sense of, like, again, like that hot house,
44:33
you talk about the BBC.
44:34
It's like, there's a hot house environment of, like, let's just make great work.
44:38
That's what's so great about companies like Apple and also, like, you know,
44:42
or who really support the filmmakers, you know, I guess that goes through, isn't it?
44:45
Being a British filmmaker, I was curious to ask, with sort of,
44:50
get then, talk about that sort of industry with, like, the British film industry,
44:53
but also, like Hollywood, do you feel like a lot of filmmakers?
44:55
I feel like it's something that a lot of British filmmakers do.
44:57
Going back to what we were talking about, about how it can be sometimes quite hard
45:01
for a British filmmaker to get off the ground in terms of, like, to build a, you know,
45:05
a career and a filmography sometimes.
45:07
What's your opinion on, like, the British, the idea of British filmmakers being sort of,
45:11
going, having to go overseas to, like, Hollywood, like, you know,
45:14
people like Hitchcock and sort of Boyle and Nolan and all those guys.
45:19
Yeah, and I guess you're on yourself too, like, I guess, like, you know,
45:21
like, making, like, because you made two films of Britain and then these films
45:24
and I guess you returned to the big screen, but you're making them with Apple and Mark
45:28
and British crews as well.
45:29
But, like, I guess, what's your, what's your opinion on that?
45:32
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, America's the daddy or the mummy of that world,
45:39
really, I think, because it's just a big country and a big company.
45:43
But, you know, that's where all the studios are based.
45:46
I think, I think, as a filmmaker, you go where you can get stuff made for certain.
45:51
But as a filmmaker, what you have to do, you have to make movies.
45:54
And, and, like you say, if you're, if you're young-ish and unproven,
46:00
it's really hard to get that first gig.
46:02
But, you know, there's a lot of TV that gets made.
46:07
And, there's a few improvements happening.
46:09
I think, I think, finally, more women are getting directing work.
46:15
I mean, I'm sure there's not a single woman in the world who would say,
46:18
hey guys, thanks, everything's fixed.
46:20
But, I do think, I do think there's a responsibility in the film business
46:24
to hire more imaginatively, rather than, you know, old, old middle class white people like me.
46:30
You know, I'm very honored to still be working.
46:34
But, I do think, I do think, you know, the industry needs to find the new talents.
46:40
And, in terms of the new talents, I mean, like, and this, I guess this is like, you know,
46:43
not only, like, crew, but also, like, stars and filmmakers.
46:46
I mean, who, who at the moment is kind of, I guess, like, firing you up at the moment
46:49
that you're getting really excited about, either to work with or maybe, like,
46:52
you're a fan of their work, like, who's sort of, what's getting you excited about
46:55
in sort of the film world these days?
46:57
I do love Josh of Connor.
47:00
I think, also, there's a director, I think, is really cool, called, near to Costa.
47:06
Yes.
47:07
She's really good.
47:09
Yeah.
47:10
And, you know, young and properly talented.
47:13
So, I think there's, there's a few people around, you know, and it's hard to get noticed.
47:19
You need a bit of luck.
47:21
We don't want it to be all children of middle-class people.
47:25
There's nothing wrong with a few NEPO babies.
47:27
But, you know, let's make sure there's a diversity of NEPO here.
47:33
Because, you know, I do think, I do think we want to see films made by different people.
47:38
And, you know, everyone goes, oh, there's so many, everything's a franchise now.
47:42
But I think, you know, you've got films like, companies like A24.
47:47
And you've got big movies.
47:48
I just saw one battle after another, which is fantastic.
47:55
I, there's very long.
47:56
I loved it.
47:57
I thought it was absolutely brilliant.
47:58
You know, that's a big filmmaker.
48:00
And it's a big film.
48:01
And, you know, big actors.
48:02
And it probably costs quite a lot of money.
48:05
But, you know, that's, that's a film that isn't sort of just straightforwardly commercial.
48:11
It's got a, got a bonus to it.
48:13
Yeah, absolutely.
48:14
I love that film as well.
48:15
And it's funny.
48:16
You mentioned, we talk about car chase.
48:17
It's like, that film's almost got like an anti-car chase in it, you know.
48:20
It's really cool that I think at the end, isn't it?
48:24
Well, that's one of the things going up and down.
48:27
Yeah, no, I think it's, I think it's really good.
48:30
I mean, he's, he's what we've talked about in before.
48:32
And he's a, he's a proper filmmaker.
48:35
And, you know, I watched, not, not longer, I watched Boogie Knights again.
48:40
A, Mark Wahlberg is utterly brilliant in it.
48:44
But so does it remind.
48:45
But Mark, you know, he has this scene towards the end where he has to come back and,
48:51
but Reynolds, and he's sort of person to tears.
48:53
And I go, my God, it all seems to me in one take.
48:56
But yeah, Paul Thomas Anderson, you know, I think he's, he's a good one.
49:00
He is a very good one, isn't he?
49:01
And, and you mentioned, of course, Boogie Knights and Mark.
49:04
I mean, because I think there was, obviously like Boogie Knights is one of my favorite performances and marks.
49:09
I think he's so good in that film.
49:10
And, and I'm, I like to, I'm a fan of his generally, but I think it's particularly in that film.
49:14
He's just incredible.
49:16
And I, but I want to say, maybe I'm wrong, but I want to say, maybe there was a time when he was,
49:19
he was a bit ambivalent about how he felt about the film.
49:21
I think nowadays he's very positive about it.
49:23
And he says, this was a great film for me.
49:24
It's a great project.
49:25
I loved working with Paul.
49:26
Maybe at the time, maybe there was a time when he was a little bit more ambivalent.
49:28
But I guess, did you ever talk to Mark about Boogie Knights?
49:30
Did you ever sort of say, oh, you know,
49:32
I definitely have.
49:33
He was, oh, I think he was, he's quite proud of it, you know.
49:37
It's one of, it's one of the, you know, he's made a couple of really classic films.
49:41
You know, three kings, I remember, the two or three things like that.
49:44
But yeah, um, so I think he's really proud of Boogie Knights.
49:48
I mean, it's quite, you know, it's quite out there.
49:50
You know, you're paying a sex performer and quite exposing in literally, of course,
49:55
but in other ways too.
49:57
Um, but I think, I think, you know, it just,
50:01
the tonally, it just, it just landed so brilliantly.
50:05
It's the fact that it can, again, it's like you could even say it's another film about family.
50:09
And it condenses eight years into, you know, two, two hours, 20 years.
50:13
It's, it's, it's, it's incredible.
50:15
Yeah, I mean, yeah, you know, it's, it's a comedy about drug addiction,
50:19
the porn industry and suicide, you can say.
50:22
Yeah, I guess sort of, uh, to finish on a, uh, on a family plan to question.
50:28
I mean, do you have a favorite memory of that shoot?
50:31
I mean, do you have a, or a favorite day that you think back on it?
50:33
Do you look back on and go, oh, that was, that was a great day with like Mark and the others.
50:37
I've got quite a few actually, but the, what I'd probably single out is,
50:42
we did a car chase in a more mantra, a famous, um, part of Paris, uh,
50:47
around this spectacular church.
50:49
I'd had the idea to try and shoot it up there because I saw these steps, um,
50:53
that sort of near where John Wick was filmed and, uh, all about.
50:57
And, and I thought, wow, wouldn't it be cool to get, uh,
51:00
a car to go down these steps being chased by another one?
51:03
I thought there's no way we're going to get permission.
51:05
It's, it's, they'll never close the street, whatever.
51:08
But that sequence, it happened almost exactly as we storyboarded it, um,
51:13
and that was, that was probably my most fun part of the shoot.
51:18
Wow.
51:19
Yeah.
51:20
I mean, ultimately what I enjoy most is the actors and doing the acting scenes,
51:25
but realizing a big car chase that kind of was quite, you know, quite bold.
51:30
That was, that was a little ambition of mine.
51:32
Yeah.
51:33
So, so how much of that was practical adventure?
51:35
Because it is quite, like, you know, you're going down those steps at my marcher
51:38
and it's like, it's, it's really, you know, it's quite a tactile scene.
51:42
Like, you know, how much of that, I guess, was the tactile sort of filmmaking?
51:45
Well, a lot of the scenes with them in the car are scenes with them in the car, for sure.
51:51
But yeah, for definitely some of some bits, you know, you can't do crashes
51:55
because people get hurt.
51:56
So we had a, the same car on a gimbal in a studio, um, you know,
52:00
you know, doing all those shot turns and dialogue and stuff like that.
52:03
And then we went back and we knew that we had the, the sort of dialogue of the scene.
52:08
We went back and then we shot a lot of the dialogue again
52:11
because it was sort of more fun in situ.
52:13
Yeah.
52:14
A lot of it was done for real.
52:16
Hmm.
52:17
And I'm guessing and the city of Paris was absolutely fine.
52:19
They didn't give you any problems or any issues with doing that.
52:21
They were like, oh, go for it.
52:23
No, they, they, they, they were in the end.
52:26
They were, yes, go for it.
52:27
But, you know, you have to, because there's so many boxes to take and so many things to do,
52:32
that, you know, we had to be formal in our approach and be professional and stuff.
52:36
But yeah, they were, they, it's a wonderful city to shoot in.
52:40
Did they have like police or anything like station around, like just keeping an eye?
52:43
Was it like, oh, you know, just in case?
52:45
Oh, yeah.
52:46
No, we had to, we had to, you know, safety is always, fortunately, these days.
52:50
Safety is a big, big thing.
52:52
And, yeah, the police were around, but they kept it safe.
52:57
But I like the French.
52:58
It's just, you know, it's a bit of a generalisation, but I do.
53:02
Fantastic, Simon.
53:04
Well, this has been such a great shot.
53:06
It's such a pleasure to talk to you and have you on the pod.
53:08
Yeah, I'm very excited for when the film opens for you actually on the 21st.
53:11
It was a real, I could say it was a privilege to see the film before it's gone out.
53:14
And I guess what, what can we expect from you next?
53:17
Like, what have you got any projects coming up next?
53:19
That's a great question.
53:20
I'm basically, I need to sort of sleep for six months.
53:24
You know, I've exhausted.
53:25
I've done three films on the bounce.
53:27
But I don't know.
53:28
I mean, obviously, I love Mark.
53:30
I'll definitely work with Mark again, but, but what else would I do?
53:33
You know, I'd love to do a sort of very slightly 70s political race movie thriller,
53:39
something like that.
53:40
Hmm.
53:41
Okay.
53:42
So, so staying on the big screen now, do you think you'd sort of move back?
53:44
Did back into television?
53:45
Wherever.
53:46
I mean, you know, you get a few more tools to play with on the big screen.
53:50
But, you know, sometimes I go, wow, I'm just unlucky to be working on things that I love.
53:55
Fantastic.
53:56
And are you going to earmark Josh O'Connor for a central role in that?
53:59
Definitely.
54:00
I'll definitely work with him anytime.
54:01
Yeah.
54:02
Sure.
54:03
Brilliant.
54:04
That'll be amazing.
54:05
Well, thank you so much, Simon.
54:06
As I say, this was such a pleasure.
54:07
And, you know, thanks again for your time.
54:09
And, yeah, this was an absolute blast.
54:11
Thanks again.
54:12
Great.
54:13
Really nice to see you.
54:15
Hey, everyone.
54:16
Thanks so much for listening to my chat with Simon Kalenjos.
54:27
Remember to like and subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode.
54:30
And stay tuned for more exciting interviews and guests coming soon on half the picture.