Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / KOHBERGER TRIAL DATE SET, STATE AMASSING CELL, VIDEO PROOF

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KOHBERGER TRIAL DATE SET, STATE AMASSING CELL, VIDEO PROOF · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:07
Speaker 2: Brian Coberger's trial date is set this as the state
0:12
Speaker 2: is amassing sell and video proof. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace.
0:18
Speaker 2: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
0:21
Speaker 2: Bombshell the Coburger trial date set. After endless billays, will
0:27
Speaker 2: the Idaho Ford victims finally get justice? We now know
0:32
Speaker 2: the trial date is not to occur for another year.
0:37
Speaker 1: Is this really happening?
0:40
Speaker 2: Joining me an all star panel to make sense of
0:42
Speaker 2: what we know right now. First of all, straight out
0:46
Speaker 2: to Chris McDonough joining US director, Cold Case Foundation, homicide
0:51
Speaker 2: detective and host of the YouTube channel The Interview Room.
0:55
Speaker 2: The families of the victims very distraught at another year delay.
1:02
Speaker 1: Seemingly no justice.
1:04
Speaker 2: And you know, Chris McDonough from having been a star
1:08
Speaker 2: witness in so many murder cases. The defense's best friend
1:13
Speaker 2: is delay, delay, delay, and that is a trial strategy,
1:18
Speaker 2: to delay, agree or disagree.
1:20
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. Agreet Nancy, and this is you know
1:24
Speaker 3: what the family was waiting for to get a trial date,
1:27
Speaker 3: but you know, to be thirty months out from the
1:30
Speaker 3: moment their child is taken off of this earth is
1:33
Speaker 3: very difficult to navigate. Through and it does benefit the defense.
1:36
Speaker 2: Another thing I'm gonna circle back to the trial day,
1:39
Speaker 2: but a big blow up amongst legal eagles across the
1:44
Speaker 2: country is the body language in the courtroom.
1:48
Speaker 1: Take a listen.
1:49
Speaker 4: Integral to Brian Colberg's defense is the appearance that his
1:53
Speaker 4: counsel truly believes he is innocent. And Taylor and her
1:57
Speaker 4: assistants have said that they support Colberger, but body language
2:01
Speaker 4: experts say Taylor's positioning far away from Colberger suggest otherwise.
2:07
Speaker 4: Some even say it looks like Taylor fears Coburger. However,
2:11
Speaker 4: their attorney client relationship shows improvement, with Colberger breaking his
2:15
Speaker 4: usual stare during conversation with Taylor to crack a smile.
2:20
Speaker 2: Saying throughout history and I'm going to go to Brian C. Stewart,
2:23
Speaker 2: high profile lawyer joining us out of this jurisdiction of Idaho.
2:27
Speaker 2: He is managing partner Parker and Maconcole. Question, g you, Brian,
2:35
Speaker 2: We have watched the body language in the courtroom from
2:40
Speaker 2: the get go, and let me show you a few
2:42
Speaker 2: shots on just off the top of my head, for instance. Oh,
2:45
Speaker 2: there they are on earlier court dates when they were
2:49
Speaker 2: still sitting together. That's one of the first court dates
2:53
Speaker 2: ever the courtroom body language Brian Stewart is conveyed to
2:58
Speaker 2: a jury. It nonverbal, but it's very clear. And we
3:04
Speaker 2: see and Taylor in the Coburger case inching further in,
3:07
Speaker 2: further and further away from Coburger.
3:11
Speaker 1: Gee, I wonder why why in.
3:13
Speaker 5: Well, there's no question that the proximity and relationship that
3:18
Speaker 5: a defense attorney exhibits towards their client gives the perception
3:23
Speaker 5: of what that defense attorney actually believes about the client,
3:27
Speaker 5: whether or not they're dangerous or safe, or guilty or innocent.
3:31
Speaker 5: And even setting the defense lawyers actually society, a seasoned
3:36
Speaker 5: defense lawyer is going to know that that perception is
3:39
Speaker 5: always on trial, even in motion hearings as well as
3:42
Speaker 5: at trial, that they're always being observed and always sending
3:46
Speaker 5: a message of how they feel about their client.
3:48
Speaker 2: Joining us right now, Special guest Tracy Brown, body language expert,
3:54
Speaker 2: author of How to Detect Lies, Fraud and Identity Theft,
3:58
Speaker 2: and you can find language trainer dot com.
4:02
Speaker 1: Tracy, it's great to have you.
4:04
Speaker 2: I wanted you to see the various photos and see
4:08
Speaker 2: Coburger with his lawyer.
4:10
Speaker 1: Tracy.
4:11
Speaker 2: I was looking actually at Coburger's outfits in court, and
4:17
Speaker 2: I was comparing one suit to the next, to the next,
4:22
Speaker 2: to the next to the next, and I noticed he
4:24
Speaker 2: always wore the same tie. And as I was looking
4:27
Speaker 2: at that, you know, does his demeanor change? Does his
4:32
Speaker 2: strut into the courtroom change? Because I will never forget
4:37
Speaker 2: Scott Peterson. Every day he would walk into the courtroom
4:42
Speaker 2: all puffed up like this, very cocky, like a star
4:45
Speaker 2: football player, and literally strut over to the defense table,
4:49
Speaker 2: And I didn't think that was a good look for
4:52
Speaker 2: the jury. But I've been watching Coburger's gate, his demeanor,
4:58
Speaker 2: Who he looks for in the court room, Where does
5:00
Speaker 2: he look first?
5:01
Speaker 1: How to seat himself? Where does he seat himself?
5:05
Speaker 2: Is he relaxedes, he smiling, There's a lot of creepy
5:08
Speaker 2: grins going on. But then I begin to notice Tracy
5:12
Speaker 2: the distance. And I guarantee you after tonight it won't
5:16
Speaker 2: happen again. But there has been a growing distance and
5:20
Speaker 2: frigidity between his defense attorney and him. And I'd like you,
5:26
Speaker 2: having studied his demeanor and his movements in court, to
5:30
Speaker 2: give us your assessment.
5:31
Speaker 6: Well, what I see is when he walks in, he's
5:33
Speaker 6: super stiff, So either he hasn't been moving like while
5:38
Speaker 6: he's in jail, which is possible, or it's maybe a
5:43
Speaker 6: subset of fear running through his body, which that would
5:47
Speaker 6: be a reasonable thing to think. Now as the distance grows, right,
5:51
Speaker 6: that says emotional separation and they definitely do not have
5:56
Speaker 6: a close relationship him and his lawyer. Now here's what
6:00
Speaker 6: I noticed that was really interesting, And some of the
6:02
Speaker 6: video that your team sent me is when they left
6:06
Speaker 6: the courtroom, he left and he got out of there
6:12
Speaker 6: and the rest of the team was still back at
6:15
Speaker 6: the table. And that tells me that he has not
6:18
Speaker 6: necessarily accepted his lawyer as the unconscious leader of the group,
6:23
Speaker 6: because if that was the case, they would they would
6:26
Speaker 6: rise and he would wait for them and they would
6:28
Speaker 6: leave together. So that really struck me as interesting. They
6:33
Speaker 6: are not a tight unit team at all.
6:36
Speaker 2: I can tell you right now, this guy is never
6:38
Speaker 2: going to be allowed on the stand joining me. In
6:40
Speaker 2: addition to the all star panel you've already met, Howard
6:44
Speaker 2: bloom is with us renowned author and author of a
6:47
Speaker 2: brand new book, which is amazing. I've read the entire
6:50
Speaker 2: thing cover to cover. When the Night Comes Falling a
6:54
Speaker 2: Requiem for the Idaho student murders. You can find him
6:57
Speaker 2: at Howard Bloom that's b luim dot com. Howard, you
7:02
Speaker 2: have researched this so diligently. I want to hear your thoughts.
7:05
Speaker 5: Well.
7:06
Speaker 7: He seems to live in his own detachment, his own
7:10
Speaker 7: little world. Even in the courtroom, it almost looks as
7:14
Speaker 7: he stares straight ahead, looks as if he might have
7:17
Speaker 7: been drugged beforehand to keep him under control. But I
7:22
Speaker 7: also you mentioned that he wears different suits. I wonder
7:26
Speaker 7: where's he getting these suits. We know the state is
7:29
Speaker 7: paying for his defense, but where is he getting all
7:32
Speaker 7: these new suits.
7:34
Speaker 8: He seems to be.
7:35
Speaker 7: Going out almost posing as an actor in this His
7:40
Speaker 7: hair is suddenly jelled, He's looking good. I think he's
7:46
Speaker 7: on some level enjoying this attention because I also believe
7:50
Speaker 7: in the back of his mind he thinks he's going
7:52
Speaker 7: to out smart everyone, and he's just sort of sitting
7:55
Speaker 7: back there. I think the idea that his hands are
7:58
Speaker 7: steeples showing comp I think he's really confident.
8:02
Speaker 3: I think he thinks he's going.
8:03
Speaker 1: To have the last left guys.
8:05
Speaker 2: We have been told, according to sources, he is using
8:09
Speaker 2: five different suits for court. Many of them look very
8:14
Speaker 2: similar to Joseph Scott Morgan joining me. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville
8:18
Speaker 2: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
8:22
Speaker 2: and star of a hit new series podcasts Body Bags
8:25
Speaker 2: with Joe Scott Morgan. All of that is well and good.
8:28
Speaker 2: But here's the thing about Morgan. He has investigated over
8:34
Speaker 2: one thousand death scenes.
8:38
Speaker 1: Now, I've tried a lot of homicides.
8:40
Speaker 2: I've been to a lot of autopsies, but that is
8:43
Speaker 2: a big number, rivaled by Chris McDonough, former homicide detective.
8:49
Speaker 2: But Joe Scott, I want to talk to you about
8:52
Speaker 2: this aspect of the trial.
8:54
Speaker 1: You've been in a lot of trials. You have a
8:57
Speaker 1: real way of communicating.
9:00
Speaker 2: When I look at Coburger, there's only one word I
9:03
Speaker 2: can think of, frigid. When he sits in the courtroom,
9:07
Speaker 2: he might as well be a stalactite sitting there in
9:11
Speaker 2: the chair next to his lawyer. Hey, Frank, you looks
9:14
Speaker 2: she looks terrified of him. She just she hardly even
9:17
Speaker 2: looks at him.
9:18
Speaker 1: Number one.
9:19
Speaker 2: And that's the thing that is a thing, you know,
9:23
Speaker 2: Joe Scott, when you don't like somebody, or you don't
9:26
Speaker 2: like what they're saying. You, you know, look away like that,
9:29
Speaker 2: or you won't look in their face. People can't meet
9:33
Speaker 2: your eyes all the time when they're lying. I don't
9:36
Speaker 2: see them having any of those moments where they turn
9:39
Speaker 2: to each other and speak close closely.
9:44
Speaker 1: How do you equate?
9:46
Speaker 2: Now, this may be a little out of your usual
9:48
Speaker 2: sphere that you talk about with me, because we were
9:51
Speaker 2: usually talking about body parts and blood spatter and autopsies,
9:57
Speaker 2: But I want you to compare the ferosity of those
10:02
Speaker 2: attacks on those four students with what we're seeing in
10:08
Speaker 2: the courtroom.
10:09
Speaker 9: He has he has this cold affect, which I think
10:14
Speaker 9: that that has been stated pretty clearly here. I was
10:18
Speaker 9: transfixed by what Tracy was saying a moment ago, and
10:21
Speaker 9: I've experienced this on scenes and particularly talking with people
10:26
Speaker 9: that have this kind of absence, if you will, in
10:30
Speaker 9: the face of some of the most gruesome things that
10:32
Speaker 9: I think that are incomprehensible to most people. And I've
10:38
Speaker 9: seen this in in plain view of me, because I
10:42
Speaker 9: would come away thinking, you know, how in the world
10:45
Speaker 9: did they not react to what I had just stated
10:48
Speaker 9: to them? When you try to describe these horrible events
10:52
Speaker 9: and the aftermath here and he's staring down this, Nancy,
10:56
Speaker 9: you know what is it? June June twenty twenty five.
11:01
Speaker 9: He's got all of his time again to think about this.
11:05
Speaker 9: And the idea here is that he is cold and calculating,
11:09
Speaker 9: at least on the surface, it would appear that scene.
11:13
Speaker 2: How can those two things exist, Joe Scott, the ferocity,
11:18
Speaker 2: the vicious nature of the attacks, and the line I'm
11:21
Speaker 2: here to help you, he said to one of the victims,
11:24
Speaker 2: before you kill them. And now this cold, austere, austere
11:29
Speaker 2: demeanor in court, well.
11:31
Speaker 9: It goes to psychopathy. I think, Nancy, this idea that
11:34
Speaker 9: there is something much deeper that is going on within him,
11:39
Speaker 9: because I got to tell you, Nancy, when I begin
11:41
Speaker 9: to think about the scene and what we have, at
11:44
Speaker 9: minimum what we've been told at this point, there was
11:46
Speaker 9: some degree of planning that went on, and we can
11:49
Speaker 9: get into all of that. But you think about the
11:51
Speaker 9: purchase of a weapon, You think about maybe covering himself,
11:55
Speaker 9: maybe covering the interior of the car as a barrier.
11:58
Speaker 9: You know, this goes to a broader construct. If you're
12:02
Speaker 9: prepared enough to plan to show up and do this
12:07
Speaker 9: kind of devastation, then wouldn't it stand a reason that
12:11
Speaker 9: by extension, you're not going to abandon that position, and
12:15
Speaker 9: only somebody that is really cold hearted could do that.
12:19
Speaker 4: Integral too, Brian Colberger's defense is the appearance that his
12:23
Speaker 4: counsel truly believes he is innocent, but body language experts
12:27
Speaker 4: say Taylor's positioning far away from Colberger suggest otherwise.
12:38
Speaker 1: The Coburger attorneys seemingly terrified of suspected Idaho students killer.
12:44
Speaker 2: Not just evidence that is being amassed. Right now, we
12:48
Speaker 2: keep hearing the defense complaining I don't have the evidence.
12:51
Speaker 2: I don't have the evidence. It could be much as
12:55
Speaker 2: in the case of Alex Murdog remember the car satellite evidence,
13:03
Speaker 2: the black box, so to speak, That evidence was being
13:06
Speaker 2: amassed leading all the way up to trial, and therefore
13:12
Speaker 2: it was newly discovered. Is the state amassing cell phone
13:18
Speaker 2: and video data, much as we saw in the case
13:23
Speaker 2: of Potus Dulos, who was charged in the murder of
13:28
Speaker 2: his wife, Connecticut missing mom of five, Jennifer Dulos. That said,
13:34
Speaker 2: what about evidence that's missing and how was the state
13:39
Speaker 2: going to counter?
13:40
Speaker 1: First of all this.
13:42
Speaker 4: One of the items in Colberger's apartment sparks the significant
13:45
Speaker 4: interest from authorities. A Dicky's clothing tag is found lying
13:49
Speaker 4: on a Walmart receipt. The receipt indicates that Colberger purchased
13:53
Speaker 4: a dark blue work uniform that cannot be located. If
13:57
Speaker 4: Colberger wore the long sleeve jumps during the attack and
14:01
Speaker 4: changed before driving back to Pullman, it would explain why
14:05
Speaker 4: no traces of blood were found in the white Hondai Elantra.
14:09
Speaker 4: Investigators believe Coburger then disposed of both the uniform and
14:14
Speaker 4: the knife used in the attack.
14:16
Speaker 1: And not just that missing work suit, but also this listen.
14:22
Speaker 10: Investigators have receipts proving that Coberger purchases both the k
14:26
Speaker 10: bar knife and Dicky's work uniform, but neither item has
14:29
Speaker 10: been recovered. The morning after the murders, Coberger drives forty
14:33
Speaker 10: five minutes south to Clarkston, Washington, situated between the Snake
14:36
Speaker 10: and Clearwater River. Coberger makes a quick stop inside in
14:39
Speaker 10: Albertson's grocery store, and his white Alantra is seen passing
14:42
Speaker 10: Kate's cup of Joe. Many have theorized that Coberger disposed
14:46
Speaker 10: of the incriminating items during this trip, throwing them in
14:49
Speaker 10: the winding rivers that span more than one one hundred miles.
14:53
Speaker 2: Okay, everybody, we got to circle back to bodies of
14:56
Speaker 2: water that we just heard our friend Dave Matt from
14:59
Speaker 2: crime on w line dot com the white Alantra is
15:02
Speaker 2: seeing passing Kate's cup of Joe. We know his route
15:06
Speaker 2: based on cell phone data. Right now, our authorities furiously
15:14
Speaker 2: combing bodies of water to find a the murder weapon,
15:18
Speaker 2: and b that Dickie's uniform. Straight out to Howard Bloom,
15:23
Speaker 2: author of When the Night Comes Falling, an amazing book
15:28
Speaker 2: full of intense research on coburger. What do you make
15:34
Speaker 2: first of all about this Dicky's uniform? I mean, the
15:37
Speaker 2: evidence is pretty strong in that he buys this uniform
15:43
Speaker 2: prior to the murders. Why that's not what he wears
15:46
Speaker 2: to work? Why does he need that? What happened to it?
15:50
Speaker 2: And a clothing tag? The tag is found lying on
15:55
Speaker 2: the Walmart receipt, so we know he bought it.
15:59
Speaker 7: Where is it exactly? I mean, this shows his planning
16:03
Speaker 7: and he did not go into this just on a
16:07
Speaker 7: spur of the moment. This was a preconceived, deliberately planned event.
16:12
Speaker 7: And that also goes back to what you were talking
16:15
Speaker 7: about earlier about his confidence in the courtroom. He still
16:18
Speaker 7: believes that he's going to outsmart everyone. You can't find
16:22
Speaker 7: the murder weapon, you can't find the Dickey's outfit. All
16:25
Speaker 7: this is part of his plan that allows him to
16:27
Speaker 7: think he's going to get away with it.
16:28
Speaker 2: You know, Tracy Brown joining me, high profile body language expert.
16:32
Speaker 2: I just want to point one thing out. I got
16:34
Speaker 2: Jackie hearing the studio going.
16:36
Speaker 1: Why they got the tag out?
16:38
Speaker 2: Okay, I have to cut the tag out of every
16:40
Speaker 2: single thing my son wears because it scratches the back
16:43
Speaker 2: of his neck. That said, it could also be the
16:47
Speaker 2: tag off of the clothing, like, okay, this is Walmart,
16:51
Speaker 2: You'll have not only a receipt, but there'll be a
16:53
Speaker 2: tag on, say the sleeve.
16:55
Speaker 1: It could be that tag that said this one.
16:58
Speaker 2: I want to talk to you about, Tracy, the fact
17:01
Speaker 2: that the tag this is so Coburger, the tag from
17:04
Speaker 2: the clothing is laid neatly on top of the receipt.
17:09
Speaker 2: Who does that, I mean, who keeps those things together?
17:14
Speaker 2: I find that very very unusual. But it goes to
17:18
Speaker 2: what Bloom was just saying. The author of the new
17:21
Speaker 2: book about the methodical psychopathy of Brian coburger.
17:26
Speaker 1: Well, this is the.
17:26
Speaker 6: Only way he can feel emotion in his life, right,
17:30
Speaker 6: this is his moment, this is his Olympics. He has
17:34
Speaker 6: planned and planned and planned, and he is going to
17:36
Speaker 6: make sure every detail is just right because remember his
17:41
Speaker 6: amigdla probably not working.
17:43
Speaker 4: And.
17:46
Speaker 6: He can't do feelings and he's trying as hard as
17:49
Speaker 6: he can to feel something. And it's all this planning
17:54
Speaker 6: that is his moment to try to get something.
18:00
Speaker 1: Out of life. Well, you know what's interesting.
18:03
Speaker 2: Also following up on Tracy to Brian Stewart, high profile
18:06
Speaker 2: lawyer in that jurisdiction of Idaho, Brian, have you ever
18:10
Speaker 2: had a client and then just immediately, thinking of Robert
18:13
Speaker 2: Blake and all of his henchmen, they actually made out
18:17
Speaker 2: a list lie U Tar. They wrote the list, the
18:22
Speaker 2: murder list, lie Tar. Let's say shovel. I can't even
18:26
Speaker 2: remember when all they had on their list that they
18:29
Speaker 2: needed to get rid of Bonnie Lee Bakley's body. But
18:32
Speaker 2: have you ever had a client planned so much that
18:35
Speaker 2: the planning became the proof, The list, the receipt, the tag,
18:41
Speaker 2: the Amazon order for the k bar knife, you know,
18:44
Speaker 2: the Dicky's uniform, just everything turning the phone off ahead
18:48
Speaker 2: of time, then turning it.
18:49
Speaker 1: Back on and route home.
18:51
Speaker 2: It's just so much planning, and the trail becomes the
18:55
Speaker 2: trail to get rid of.
18:57
Speaker 1: The evidence becomes the evidence. Absolutely.
19:00
Speaker 5: I've never experienced that personally with a client, but when
19:04
Speaker 5: you see someone planning that systematically to avoid getting caught,
19:10
Speaker 5: that can become evidence that.
19:12
Speaker 1: They did do it.
19:13
Speaker 5: When there's all this evidence, like the knife and the
19:17
Speaker 5: work uniform that were purchased, but now I have disappeared,
19:21
Speaker 5: and it's you know, it is troubling and he should
19:24
Speaker 5: be worried about it.
19:25
Speaker 2: You know, to just Scott Morgan, you and I have
19:27
Speaker 2: talked about this fixed blade knife many many times. We
19:31
Speaker 2: have the Amazon order for the knife and the sheath.
19:34
Speaker 2: We found the sheath under one of the victim's dead bodies.
19:38
Speaker 2: But the knife, of all things, goes missing. You know,
19:43
Speaker 2: even my son and daughter. My son got a Scout
19:49
Speaker 2: knife years ago.
19:52
Speaker 1: I can tell you right now where that thing is.
19:54
Speaker 2: Why would you buy a k bar knife that matches
19:59
Speaker 2: the sheath under the victim's body and now the knife's gone.
20:03
Speaker 9: Yeah, Hey, let's talk about the dickies real quick, because
20:06
Speaker 9: that's that's key here. I think Nancy. What if Liz
20:12
Speaker 9: and the crew could put that image back up of
20:14
Speaker 9: the Dickies' coveralls. What's it missing that you would see
20:18
Speaker 9: on a normal pair of trousers. There are no belt
20:21
Speaker 9: loops there. Okay, now, granted it has pockets, but with
20:25
Speaker 9: k bar it has got a significant place here to
20:32
Speaker 9: run your belt through and to hang off of your pants,
20:35
Speaker 9: you know. And I'm thinking, you know, I've always kind
20:37
Speaker 9: of envisioned this, you know, going into that room. It's
20:41
Speaker 9: almost like a drama that's being played out. When he
20:44
Speaker 9: withdraws that knife from the sheath. It's very dramatic, I
20:48
Speaker 9: think for him at that moment time and in this fury,
20:55
Speaker 9: in this confused state chaos, he's dropped this sheath. He
21:01
Speaker 9: doesn't have it secure to his side like you would
21:04
Speaker 9: normally think. I mean, hell, these things are made for
21:07
Speaker 9: the Marine Corps, Nancy. They have all kinds of places
21:11
Speaker 9: that they attached these things to their equipment, and in
21:14
Speaker 9: order to secure it, he failed in that one area, Nancy.
21:19
Speaker 9: And it's always been fascinating to me. And the fact
21:22
Speaker 9: that there's nothing in the car as well. He's thought
21:25
Speaker 9: about the Dickies, perhaps to cover himself and you know,
21:30
Speaker 9: there's been all kinds of theories put forward about, well,
21:33
Speaker 9: why is there no evidence in the car? Did he
21:35
Speaker 9: go to the extent as well of using trash bags
21:39
Speaker 9: or plastic or something contained? Because I just knew, I
21:42
Speaker 9: would have bet you dollars to donuts that when they
21:44
Speaker 9: got that car it was going to be a rolling
21:47
Speaker 9: crime scene, that they were going to find some evidence
21:49
Speaker 9: in there, because I've worked cases involving sharp force injuries, Nancy,
21:54
Speaker 9: and they are, by far even compared to shotgun wounds,
21:57
Speaker 9: by far, the most bloody scenes that you can possibly
22:01
Speaker 9: work as a death investigator. And I cannot get past
22:04
Speaker 9: the thought that there was not an element of biological
22:08
Speaker 9: evidence left within that car. And we haven't even talked
22:11
Speaker 9: about shoes. What happened to the shoes as well, because
22:14
Speaker 9: he would have had blood on the shoe.
22:15
Speaker 2: We haven't even gotten to the shoes. But hey, hey,
22:18
Speaker 2: hold the thought. I got to tell you something very quickly.
22:20
Speaker 2: You know, you said, you just said, did he put
22:24
Speaker 2: things in a trash bag? How did he keep everything?
22:27
Speaker 2: How did he keep the car pristine? I'll tell you how.
22:30
Speaker 2: Joe Scott, you probably hear this before you fall asleep
22:34
Speaker 2: at night. Me saying, when you don't know a horse,
22:38
Speaker 2: look at his track record. If you don't know what
22:40
Speaker 2: he's going to do, look at what he's done. Howard Bloom,
22:44
Speaker 2: Remember when Coburger was arrested in the family home near
22:50
Speaker 2: the Pocono's.
22:51
Speaker 1: What was he doing.
22:52
Speaker 2: He was standing there either in shorts or underwear with
22:56
Speaker 2: plastic gloves on, at what three in the morning, and
23:01
Speaker 2: he was in two separate plastic bags, right, Howard, exactly.
23:09
Speaker 7: And this shows the planning, the methodicalness that went into this.
23:13
Speaker 7: He thought he was going to be the criminology student
23:16
Speaker 7: who would outsmart the police. He thought, even when he
23:20
Speaker 7: was in Pennsylvania, he still could get away with it.
23:22
Speaker 7: He would still be able to return to Washington State
23:25
Speaker 7: University and begin teaching once again. And I think even
23:30
Speaker 7: now when he's in court, he still thinks he's going
23:32
Speaker 7: to have the last laugh. He thinks he's going to
23:35
Speaker 7: beat this case.
23:36
Speaker 1: Hey, Chris McDonald, director Cole Case Foundation, jump in. I
23:39
Speaker 1: think I heard you.
23:40
Speaker 3: But you know, Nancy, let's go back to the clothing
23:43
Speaker 3: for a second, and let's just talk about the removal
23:46
Speaker 3: of the tag and whatever. If it's the tag that's
23:49
Speaker 3: attached to the dickey. Then there is a number on
23:54
Speaker 3: that tag and it's called an r AND number, and
23:57
Speaker 3: that number can be traced through the Federal Freight Commission
24:01
Speaker 3: as to where that item was purchased, where that item
24:04
Speaker 3: was made, you know what country, et cetera, et cetera.
24:08
Speaker 3: So if he had thought through this, you know, this
24:12
Speaker 3: methodical and if he was smart enough to cut that
24:15
Speaker 3: tag off, if the authorities ever found that tag, they
24:20
Speaker 3: could connect it to that item. But if they found
24:22
Speaker 3: the item without the tag, they may not be able
24:25
Speaker 3: to connect it back to him. I've had a case
24:28
Speaker 3: where I actually found the mall where an item was purchased.
24:32
Speaker 3: It was a jacket and a homicide that I had,
24:35
Speaker 3: and it was directly because of that r ND number.
24:37
Speaker 2: Hold everything, Joe Scott Morgan. What he is saying leads
24:42
Speaker 2: me to my next topic. And I want to forget this.
24:47
Speaker 2: What is the state doing because we keep hearing the
24:50
Speaker 2: defense say, you're not giving me the evidence.
24:52
Speaker 1: You're not giving me.
24:53
Speaker 2: The evidence, because they're still amassing the evidence. And I
24:57
Speaker 2: was thinking more along the lines of cell phoned of
25:01
Speaker 2: video data that they could get, Like we keep talking
25:04
Speaker 2: about the white alantras spotted here and there, and I
25:07
Speaker 2: think they're piecing together a montage of where the launtra
25:10
Speaker 2: was that night. But what McDonough just said about that tag,
25:15
Speaker 2: And we were earlier talking to Tracy Brown about his behavior,
25:18
Speaker 2: his stoic, severe and methodical behavior in court. Who folds
25:24
Speaker 2: up the receipt and puts the tag from the clothe
25:27
Speaker 2: and leaves it on top of the receipt and there
25:29
Speaker 2: it remains. But McDonough's saying, you get that tag that
25:34
Speaker 2: could be traced back to a lot, l ot a
25:38
Speaker 2: lot of the exact factory that made them, where they
25:44
Speaker 2: were sent, what area of the country.
25:47
Speaker 1: He's right, Just what if just go with me on this.
25:51
Speaker 2: What if we could trace back to that particular Walmart
25:56
Speaker 2: and catch Coburger getting it, see him on surveillance video,
26:02
Speaker 2: I mean, and.
26:03
Speaker 1: Then what became of it? Where did it go? Just
26:06
Speaker 1: like the k bar?
26:06
Speaker 2: Now, okay, hold that thought. And what about the shoes?
26:09
Speaker 2: You said, we haven't even gotten to the shoes. Well,
26:12
Speaker 2: I hadn't even thought about the shoes except he may
26:15
Speaker 2: have been wearing footies, you know, like in.
26:16
Speaker 9: Surgery, yeah, or shoe covers. And if I could just
26:19
Speaker 9: just for a second, I worked in the more. For
26:22
Speaker 9: a long long time, Nancy, I've participated or assisted in
26:25
Speaker 9: over seven thousand autopsies. You know what I always had
26:27
Speaker 9: on my feet shoe covers, and the reason you have
26:30
Speaker 9: shoe covers. And I don't want to be too graphic here,
26:33
Speaker 9: but there's a lot of blood spilled at autopsies and
26:36
Speaker 9: it just saturates everything, supersaturates everything. And the idea that
26:42
Speaker 9: he could have potentially have gone into this environment committed
26:46
Speaker 9: this heinous crime, and from what we understand, at least
26:50
Speaker 9: at this point, it is very brutal. There will be
26:53
Speaker 9: blood evidence, if not on the bottom of the shoes,
26:56
Speaker 9: certainly on the tops. So what became of the footwear?
26:59
Speaker 9: You know, early own we heard we heard a comment
27:02
Speaker 9: about van shoes or vans that turned out, you know,
27:06
Speaker 9: I don't know if they dismissed that or whatever the
27:08
Speaker 9: case was. I heard that there were people that occupied
27:11
Speaker 9: that house that had vans. But I've always wondered about
27:14
Speaker 9: the shoes where they also tossed away along with gloves
27:18
Speaker 9: and this dicky and the knife in some area where
27:22
Speaker 9: they taken to the river and tossed in there. Or
27:26
Speaker 9: is it or the Albertson's which I was kind of
27:28
Speaker 9: fascinated by as well. Why not just toss it in
27:31
Speaker 9: the dumpster at a grocery store like that where it's
27:34
Speaker 9: not going to be tracked necessarily.
27:36
Speaker 8: Everything that I've seen to date is concerning to me
27:39
Speaker 8: because it's exclavatory, and I want, I need to clarify
27:43
Speaker 8: this when all of the writers are produced and the
27:46
Speaker 8: dust settles and I have time to review it. Preserve
27:52
Speaker 8: the right to say, you know, now I'm seeing everything.
27:55
Speaker 8: Here's what I'm seeing.
27:56
Speaker 2: There may be a very good reason the defense has
27:59
Speaker 2: not seen all the scientific evidence yet because the state
28:02
Speaker 2: is still amassing evidence.
28:04
Speaker 1: What is it? Will it be the nail in.
28:08
Speaker 2: Coburger's coffin for the brutal quadruple sleigh of four Beautiful
28:14
Speaker 2: University Idaho students, for instance?
28:18
Speaker 1: Listen.
28:18
Speaker 10: Since a broad gag order was enacted in the case,
28:21
Speaker 10: the public has not learned of any evidence against Brian
28:23
Speaker 10: Coberger outside of that listed in the probable cause affidavit.
28:27
Speaker 10: A search for in return from Coberger's apartment revealed several
28:30
Speaker 10: items receives that may prove damning for the accused killer.
28:33
Speaker 10: Eight human hairs and one suspected animal hair were taken
28:37
Speaker 10: from the apartment, along with cuttings from bedding with possible bloodstains.
28:41
Speaker 10: Investigators also found black nitral gloves and took a fire,
28:45
Speaker 10: TV device and computer.
28:46
Speaker 2: Okay, Scott Morgan joining me along with Howard Bloom, Brian Stewart,
28:51
Speaker 2: Chris McDonough, and Tracy Brown. When we get through this,
28:55
Speaker 2: I want to go through video that Chris mcdonna has
29:01
Speaker 2: made himself going through the inns and the outs of
29:05
Speaker 2: the area. It's amazing everything falls into place when you
29:09
Speaker 2: can see it for yourself.
29:10
Speaker 1: I learned that out in Idaho.
29:12
Speaker 2: So just Scott Morgan joining US Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University.
29:17
Speaker 2: Animal hair, Did I hear animal hair? What about the
29:22
Speaker 2: dog in the apartment? If what if just think about it,
29:26
Speaker 2: that animal hair that was seized matches back to the
29:33
Speaker 2: dog at the murder scene.
29:35
Speaker 9: Yeah, wouldn't that be something you begin to think about
29:38
Speaker 9: species specifically breed when you think about the dog that
29:44
Speaker 9: was there at the crime scene. There's a lot of
29:47
Speaker 9: people that have held that certainly, and I think our
29:51
Speaker 9: good friend Cheryl Mack has talked about was there any
29:56
Speaker 9: contact trace evidence left for perhaps on that cop how
30:00
Speaker 9: well was it secured at that particular time. But you know,
30:03
Speaker 9: when you think about him, it goes back to the
30:05
Speaker 9: card's principle. Every contact leaves a trace. Did he contact
30:10
Speaker 9: that hair the dog is shedding? It winds up on
30:13
Speaker 9: his clothing, he goes back, or on him, on his
30:16
Speaker 9: hands or somewhere. You never know. It could have contacted
30:19
Speaker 9: his face for all we know. Did he go back
30:22
Speaker 9: and then it was deposited at that location. All of
30:25
Speaker 9: these things have to be considered.
30:34
Speaker 1: Crime stories.
30:35
Speaker 2: With Nancy Grace, what more evidence is a state amassing?
30:43
Speaker 1: Listen.
30:44
Speaker 11: Part of the hearing on the fourteenth is to talk
30:46
Speaker 11: about the different parts of that video that we've received
30:50
Speaker 11: and how we need the whole contacts. This is the
30:53
Speaker 11: video that they say places this car near the residence.
30:57
Speaker 11: We've received little tiny pieces of we think Brian's right
31:02
Speaker 11: to a fair trial.
31:04
Speaker 1: I mean, the public needs to.
31:05
Speaker 11: Know that they've withheld the audio from a great portion
31:09
Speaker 11: of that. And then it starts a long time before.
31:12
Speaker 2: The little clip that we've received, the little clip that
31:15
Speaker 2: we've received. Okay, Control room, could I get you to
31:18
Speaker 2: roll Chris McDonough's video his drive through all around the
31:24
Speaker 2: area where the crime was committed. Okay, Chris, go ahead
31:29
Speaker 2: and explain what we're seeing right now.
31:31
Speaker 3: So what we're seeing here, Nancy, is the road that
31:35
Speaker 3: runs parallel to the residents, and you could obviously see
31:38
Speaker 3: this was taken on Thanksgiving Day the police had still
31:42
Speaker 3: had this area secured. And then this is behind the
31:45
Speaker 3: house looking to the neighbors to the left, which if
31:49
Speaker 3: you were looking at the back there one area that
31:53
Speaker 3: struck me here is this window here underneath that window
31:58
Speaker 3: there is a like a cinder block. You can see
32:02
Speaker 3: it right there. My initial impression was, if this guy
32:06
Speaker 3: was pre incident a surveillance of this house and he
32:10
Speaker 3: had these tendencies like a peeping tom, is he using
32:15
Speaker 3: that almost like a bench right to sit there to
32:18
Speaker 3: look through the windows those types of things, And of
32:20
Speaker 3: course that's just a theory. We don't know that. But
32:24
Speaker 3: at the same time, I always thought this was the
32:27
Speaker 3: most logical area that this guy would make the entry
32:31
Speaker 3: into the house through that sliding glass door on the
32:34
Speaker 3: back patio.
32:35
Speaker 2: And also the video that you amassed also of the
32:41
Speaker 2: drive thood through the area in the snow, and you
32:44
Speaker 2: went very slowly up and down all the winding streets,
32:49
Speaker 2: and I recall seeing the gas station over on the
32:52
Speaker 2: left of your video, Chris McDonough. That leads me to
32:57
Speaker 2: the car. That's where the clerk was with the car
33:01
Speaker 2: whizzed by and we got that video. Now I believe Chris,
33:06
Speaker 2: that there's going to be a montage video evidence placing
33:10
Speaker 2: that Elantra all around the area. For instance, we heard
33:15
Speaker 2: that he stopped into Kate's Cup of Joe. Is he
33:19
Speaker 2: on video? Is his car on video? And I think
33:23
Speaker 2: the state is going to put together a montage video
33:27
Speaker 2: that's not ready yet because there's still amassing it.
33:31
Speaker 1: What about it?
33:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I totally agree with you, Nancy. There is
33:34
Speaker 3: so much work that still needs to be done. And
33:37
Speaker 3: you've been there, you stood, you know where I where
33:41
Speaker 3: I should and looked into that house and he is
33:46
Speaker 3: Remember we forget that his background was to kind of
33:50
Speaker 3: teach the police about technology. So I would submit at
33:54
Speaker 3: this point the authorities are going, Okay, this guy thinks
33:57
Speaker 3: this way, So what kind of risk is he going
34:01
Speaker 3: to lower for himself to commit this crime?
34:04
Speaker 9: Correctly?
34:05
Speaker 3: And if you drive through the town itself, there are
34:11
Speaker 3: videos on those businesses all over the place, evident to
34:15
Speaker 3: the fact we have the victims walking back from the
34:18
Speaker 3: bar and they're caught on video. Well, I would submit
34:22
Speaker 3: to you he is aware of all of those pieces
34:25
Speaker 3: of you know, potential evidence that could throw him under
34:28
Speaker 3: the bush. And the car in of itself. You know,
34:32
Speaker 3: the Idaho Department of Transportation would have access to a
34:36
Speaker 3: lot of cameras. I know there's been some you know,
34:40
Speaker 3: according to some of the information that I've received, that
34:43
Speaker 3: he's not on a whole bunch of stuff. And the
34:45
Speaker 3: stuff that they're showing us today, they're they're pretty they're
34:49
Speaker 3: pretty solid in their feeling that this is him traveling
34:54
Speaker 3: through those roads.
34:55
Speaker 2: I guarantee you about trial time, there's going to be
34:57
Speaker 2: a video montage of Kyburger on his route leaving the house,
35:03
Speaker 2: driving to the house, and that wh Elantra is going
35:07
Speaker 2: to pop up in multiple videos. Also that leads me
35:11
Speaker 2: to the conclusion that authorities are looking along that route
35:17
Speaker 2: right now for the murder weapon.
35:20
Speaker 12: As Brian Coberger's trial approaches and Taylor will do everything
35:23
Speaker 12: she can to take the death penalty off the table,
35:26
Speaker 12: many predict that Taylor will use the same tactics cult
35:29
Speaker 12: mom Lorie Valo's team employed to escape the death penalty.
35:32
Speaker 12: In Valo Dabell's case, prosecutors were barred from pursuing the
35:36
Speaker 12: punishment when the court found they had failed to turn
35:38
Speaker 12: over all discovery to the defense. And Taylor may argue
35:42
Speaker 12: that the cell phone data collected by investigators is unreliable
35:46
Speaker 12: and attack the DNA found on the knife sheath.
35:49
Speaker 2: We know those attacks aren't going to happen on the evidence.
35:52
Speaker 2: But Will and Taylor take a page out of cultman
35:56
Speaker 2: Laurie Valo's lawyers and claim discovery wasn't handed out in time,
36:00
Speaker 2: and therefore the death penalty must be taken off the table.
36:04
Speaker 2: What evidence is it that the state is amassing? Trials
36:09
Speaker 2: strategy straight out to Howard Bloom joining us, author of
36:13
Speaker 2: When the Night Comes falling?
36:15
Speaker 1: What do you make of what you are hearing?
36:18
Speaker 7: Well, what I've been hearing all along is that the
36:21
Speaker 7: state has been deliberately delaying things. I mean, the defense
36:25
Speaker 7: has a very good case that the state has taken
36:28
Speaker 7: way too long to amass all this evidence.
36:30
Speaker 1: Hold on, did you not hear anything we're saying?
36:34
Speaker 2: The state is very likely still amassing evidence as we speak.
36:38
Speaker 1: So how can they hand it over when they don't
36:40
Speaker 1: have it yet?
36:41
Speaker 7: I disagree, I disagree, I disagree. How long does it
36:45
Speaker 7: take to amass all this evidence. We're talking about a
36:48
Speaker 7: year and a half on an important case, and they
36:50
Speaker 7: have all this task force working plus defense and they
36:53
Speaker 7: can't get it together in time. They are dragging their heels.
36:57
Speaker 7: They're not showing the professionalism necessary.
36:59
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go forward with that. Brian C. Stewart.
37:02
Speaker 2: I know you've tried a lot of cases, but I
37:05
Speaker 2: have had cases where there actually.
37:07
Speaker 1: Was newly discovered evidence.
37:09
Speaker 2: And if you're talking about using satellites or a massing
37:14
Speaker 2: video from different stores, still looking for the murder weapons,
37:18
Speaker 2: still trying to triangulate cell phone data, I mean that
37:22
Speaker 2: takes a long time. I mean I understand people that
37:26
Speaker 2: are not familiar with the technicalities of a massing cell
37:29
Speaker 2: phone data and video data. It doesn't happen overnight.
37:34
Speaker 5: Brian, absolutely, And we don't know that they are still
37:40
Speaker 5: asking more cell phone data or DNA data or surveillance data.
37:45
Speaker 5: But they said that they've turned over everything that they have.
37:49
Speaker 9: To date, and even if they have done.
37:51
Speaker 5: That, they'll continue to investigate and try to run down
37:56
Speaker 5: loose ends all the way until tryal Well.
37:58
Speaker 2: Bottom line, Chris McDonald, based on your drive through, they
38:02
Speaker 2: have a lot of territory to cover if they're looking
38:05
Speaker 2: for video of that.
38:06
Speaker 1: Elantra agreed. Disagree, Yeah, absolutely, PC.
38:09
Speaker 3: I agree that they're looking for video of that data
38:12
Speaker 3: and they have to connect those thoughts back to him.
38:15
Speaker 3: So yeah, the investigation is still fluid, it's moving.
38:18
Speaker 2: Just Scott Morgan, just in one last example, a data dump,
38:24
Speaker 2: a data dump of all the cell phones that were
38:27
Speaker 2: in use in that area at that time. Now we
38:30
Speaker 2: know he cut a cell phone off, but leading up
38:33
Speaker 2: to that and immediately following that, how long does that
38:36
Speaker 2: take to a mass thousands and thousands of cell phone entries?
38:39
Speaker 9: Doesn't take this long? And that's the big that's the
38:43
Speaker 9: big ask here. I don't understand why it has taken
38:46
Speaker 9: so long relative to the digital data. And also you
38:50
Speaker 9: need to CCTV data.
38:52
Speaker 2: Scott, were you not watching the Alex Murdad case. Were
38:56
Speaker 2: you and I watching two different trials when Alex Murdaud
38:59
Speaker 2: was prosecuted for double murder Because the state started trying
39:02
Speaker 2: day one to get the NAV system data out of
39:06
Speaker 2: Alex Mrnagg's car and they went round and I think
39:09
Speaker 2: it was with GM what they went through. I mean,
39:11
Speaker 2: can you imagine taking on GM to get that data.
39:15
Speaker 2: How do I know that's not what they're looking at
39:17
Speaker 2: right now. I don't think they're dragging their feet. I
39:20
Speaker 2: think they're still working. Seriously.
39:22
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm not saying they're dragging their feet. However, I
39:25
Speaker 9: don't understand why it is taking so long, and with
39:28
Speaker 9: the Elantra, with if there is a system on board
39:32
Speaker 9: in this particular model, how long does it take to
39:35
Speaker 9: process all of that data? And they might be trying
39:38
Speaker 9: to correlate it also with the cell data that they have.
39:41
Speaker 1: Nancy, Yeah, jump in, you know.
39:42
Speaker 3: I think there's a semantic share of necessarily to necessarily
39:46
Speaker 3: understand they have a mass to data. It's processing the
39:51
Speaker 3: data that takes all the time, and that's what the
39:55
Speaker 3: delay is.
39:55
Speaker 2: I would submit we wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace
40:00
Speaker 2: signing off, goodbye friend,