Latest / The Path Went Chilly / Rhonda Hinson Pt. Two

Transcript

Rhonda Hinson Pt. Two · The Path Went Chilly

0:28
Speaker 1: Welcome back to our coverage about the murder of Rondick Hinson.
0:31
Speaker 1: Let's jump back right into this case. But of course,
0:33
Speaker 1: in the original investigation, Greg was never considered to be
0:36
Speaker 1: a suspect because his parents said he was home all night.
0:39
Speaker 1: He was here, he couldn't have been out. But of
0:41
Speaker 1: course you have to take it with a grain of
0:43
Speaker 1: salt when people's own family members offered them an alibi.
0:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really think you can really rely too
0:51
Speaker 2: strongly on familial alibis because parents are willing to lie
0:55
Speaker 2: for their children. It just comes down to it. I
0:57
Speaker 2: think siblings are willing to lie. He's actually parents. They
1:01
Speaker 2: always want to protect their children, and they're not only
1:04
Speaker 2: protecting their children when they do that, they're also protecting
1:07
Speaker 2: the integrity of their own names. And I don't think
1:10
Speaker 2: that we can underestimate how important that is. Nobody wants
1:13
Speaker 2: the stain of having your child be a murderer, So
1:17
Speaker 2: I can understand why parents will do things like this.
1:20
Speaker 2: We saw this in the Gabby Patito case with Brian
1:23
Speaker 2: Laundry's parents.
1:24
Speaker 1: It's laundry, right, yeah, laundry.
1:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, we saw it with his parents. The lengths that
1:29
Speaker 2: they were willing to go to protect him.
1:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there are some examples where
1:33
Speaker 1: parents are willing to do the right thing. But also,
1:35
Speaker 1: Charles McDowell was a pastor at the local church, and
1:38
Speaker 1: he sounded like someone who was very concerned about his
1:41
Speaker 1: family's image and maintaining being a pillar of the community.
1:44
Speaker 1: So he would fit the profile of someone who would
1:46
Speaker 1: cover for his son if he had killed someone.
1:49
Speaker 2: It's not a very Christian thing, no.
1:51
Speaker 1: Definitely not. But there would be another odd incident at
1:54
Speaker 1: around seven am later that morning, two of Ronda and
1:58
Speaker 1: Greg's best friends were another couple. Their names were Mark
2:01
Speaker 1: Turner and Jill Turner, even though their families both seemed
2:04
Speaker 1: to have the same last name, but it's just a coincidence.
2:07
Speaker 1: They weren't related to each other, but they heard about
2:09
Speaker 1: Ronda's death, so they decided to pay a visit to
2:12
Speaker 1: the McDowell residents in order to offer their condolences. But
2:15
Speaker 1: when they arrived, Greg and Betty were there, but Charles
2:18
Speaker 1: was not, and since he was a private pilot with
2:21
Speaker 1: his own plane, Betty explained that he had left on
2:24
Speaker 1: a flight to South Carolina in order to pick up
2:26
Speaker 1: some relatives who would be visiting the family for the
2:28
Speaker 1: Christmas holidays. When the Hints were told about this, they
2:32
Speaker 1: found it very weird because a couple of days earlier,
2:35
Speaker 1: Greg had asked them if they could spend the holidays
2:38
Speaker 1: at their house because his parents were planning to travel
2:41
Speaker 1: to South Carolina and spend Christmas with their relatives and
2:44
Speaker 1: he didn't really want to do that. But now, for
2:47
Speaker 1: whatever reason, Charles had changed his plans and was going
2:50
Speaker 1: to pick up these relatives and bring them back to
2:53
Speaker 1: his place, even though this was only about six hours
2:56
Speaker 1: after finding out that his son's girlfriend had been murdered.
3:00
Speaker 1: Flight logs did confirm that Charles's plane did take off,
3:03
Speaker 1: but I don't think it's ever been officially confirmed if
3:06
Speaker 1: he brought back any relatives. And of course there has
3:09
Speaker 1: been speculation that he might have been using this opportunity
3:12
Speaker 1: to dispose of evidence because he was a known hunter,
3:15
Speaker 1: so Greg would have had access to a rifle if
3:18
Speaker 1: it was in fact the murder weapon. And there would
3:21
Speaker 1: be another unusual situation when Mark and Jill were leaving
3:24
Speaker 1: and driving out of the driveway when Greg suddenly came
3:28
Speaker 1: out and waved them down, and after Mark stopped the car,
3:31
Speaker 1: Greg handed him a box of condoms and said, quote,
3:34
Speaker 1: I don't want them to find out we were having sex. What?
3:39
Speaker 1: And it's like I cant understand, Like this is a
3:41
Speaker 1: Christian family who may have disapproved of premarital sex, but
3:44
Speaker 1: it's like most people aren't going to be thinking about
3:46
Speaker 1: something like this, hiding condoms after finding out that your
3:49
Speaker 1: girlfriend has been murdered.
3:52
Speaker 2: That's so weird. But I've got to think, if Charles
3:56
Speaker 2: is a pastor at a church, does he really need
3:59
Speaker 2: to take his lane to dispose of evidence? Couldn't you
4:02
Speaker 2: hide evidence on church property? Like what is the probability
4:06
Speaker 2: that they're going to be able to get a search
4:07
Speaker 2: warrant for church property?
4:09
Speaker 1: Yeah? I thought that is kind of an exaggeration that
4:11
Speaker 1: if he needed to dispose of evidence, you could just
4:13
Speaker 1: drive somewhere and dispose of it. You don't have to
4:16
Speaker 1: take a plane out there. But still we've never even
4:18
Speaker 1: found out if he was telling the truth about bringing
4:21
Speaker 1: relatives back to the house and picking them up, So
4:24
Speaker 1: it just seems odd that he would take this impromptu
4:26
Speaker 1: plane ride so soon after finding out what happened to
4:29
Speaker 1: his son's girlfriend.
4:30
Speaker 2: I think it's absolutely bizarre, But I could see a
4:34
Speaker 2: scenario where they were originally planning to go to South
4:38
Speaker 2: Carolina for the holidays, but then given everything that happened,
4:43
Speaker 2: they were like, Okay, we're going to talk to the
4:46
Speaker 2: family and see if they're now willing to come up
4:48
Speaker 2: here and be around us during this very difficult time.
4:52
Speaker 2: But the one thing that I've got a difficult time
4:54
Speaker 2: reconciling is the time frame. Would you really go six
4:58
Speaker 2: hours after finding this out that Ronda was dead?
5:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, because supposedly Charles had been woken up at like
5:04
Speaker 1: quarter after two in the morning, so he obviously didn't
5:06
Speaker 1: get much sleep. So would you instantly feel gung ho
5:09
Speaker 1: to start flying a plane after you must be tired
5:12
Speaker 1: just to go pick up the relatives, Like why not
5:14
Speaker 1: have a nap or something and then go later in
5:16
Speaker 1: the day if you really wanted to bring your relatives
5:18
Speaker 1: back there. So my next story is going to paint
5:22
Speaker 1: the mcdowells in an even more unflattering light. And this
5:25
Speaker 1: is particularly weird. But Ronda's funeral service was held on
5:29
Speaker 1: Christmas Day at the same church where Charles was the pastor,
5:32
Speaker 1: so he wound up giving the eulogy. But the Hintsons
5:35
Speaker 1: thought that it was very weird because he barely seemed
5:38
Speaker 1: to be mentioning Ronda at all, didn't really want to
5:40
Speaker 1: say a lot of good things about her, even though
5:42
Speaker 1: she was a victim, and he stated that he barely
5:45
Speaker 1: knew Ronda, even though she had been his son's girlfriend
5:48
Speaker 1: for the past two years. And then he flat out
5:51
Speaker 1: shocked everyone by saying, quote, I don't know if Ronda
5:54
Speaker 1: went to Hell or not. And of course this enraged
5:57
Speaker 1: the Hinsons, and then after the service, Judy decided to
6:00
Speaker 1: confront him and say, why would you say something like that?
6:03
Speaker 1: And he told her that since Ronda wasn't affiliated with
6:06
Speaker 1: this particular church, he couldn't know for certain where she was.
6:09
Speaker 1: And he then stated, quote, there was a lot of
6:12
Speaker 1: good people in Hell. Just because a person is good
6:14
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they are not in Hell. I know a
6:16
Speaker 1: lot of good people who have gone to Hell.
6:18
Speaker 2: End quote excuse you, Like, how dare you say that
6:24
Speaker 2: about this deceased nineteen year old girl. Ronda did absolutely
6:28
Speaker 2: nothing wrong to have you say that she could possibly
6:31
Speaker 2: be in hell. And then he qualifies his statements that
6:34
Speaker 2: there's lots of good people in Hell. Like her parents
6:37
Speaker 2: don't want to hear that what an absolute pos.
6:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just so bizarre to me. I love to
6:42
Speaker 1: think I know a lot of good people who have
6:44
Speaker 1: gone to Hell. How could you possibly know that, to
6:46
Speaker 1: let you been there? How could you know where these
6:47
Speaker 1: people have gone after they died. But it just seemed
6:51
Speaker 1: like there's some major projection here. And some people have
6:53
Speaker 1: theorized that maybe he blamed Ronda for causing his son
6:58
Speaker 1: to kill her or something like that, saying that she
7:00
Speaker 1: did something bad to him so that Greg had no
7:02
Speaker 1: choice but to kill her, And in order to project
7:05
Speaker 1: he started saying disparaging things about at her own funeral
7:08
Speaker 1: service with her family and attendance, and trying to say
7:11
Speaker 1: that she went to hell, even though she's an innocent
7:13
Speaker 1: nineteen year old girl who did nothing wrong.
7:16
Speaker 2: I think we see something similar in uh. I think
7:18
Speaker 2: it's the case of Djunko Feruda in Japan. I think
7:21
Speaker 2: it was like the Hello Kitty murder.
7:23
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know that one.
7:25
Speaker 2: It is absolutely vile what they did to this young girl.
7:28
Speaker 2: But in the end, after she's deceased and she's buried,
7:33
Speaker 2: the mothers of some of these boys were just they
7:36
Speaker 2: were so angry about what happened that they would go,
7:39
Speaker 2: and they would desecrate her grave on multiple occasions, and
7:44
Speaker 2: it's like, why don't you put the blame where it belongs,
7:46
Speaker 2: squarely on the shoulders of your son. Why are you
7:49
Speaker 2: blaming this poor girl who was tortured for like a
7:52
Speaker 2: month or something like that. I can't remember all the
7:54
Speaker 2: details of the case, but it was horrific, and so
7:57
Speaker 2: it's very possible that we're seeing something similar.
8:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely heard about that case where they pretty
8:03
Speaker 1: much blamed the murder victim who was tortured for ruining
8:06
Speaker 1: their son's life, even though they were directly responsible for
8:09
Speaker 1: what happened. And that just may be Charles's mentality where
8:12
Speaker 1: even though his son killed someone, he's doing nothing but
8:15
Speaker 1: blaming the victim. And to make this situation even more odd,
8:19
Speaker 1: Charles resigned as the pastor at the church only two
8:22
Speaker 1: days after the funeral, and he never gave an official reason.
8:26
Speaker 1: But as the years went on, it would turn out,
8:28
Speaker 1: surprise surprise, that Charles had been conducting an extramaral affair
8:32
Speaker 1: with one of the parishioners, and he eventually got divorced
8:35
Speaker 1: from Betty after thirty years of marriage, which says a
8:38
Speaker 1: lot about his character. And the last time that the
8:42
Speaker 1: Hinson's ever communicated with Charles was about two years after
8:45
Speaker 1: Ronda's murder, where he stopped by their house and had
8:49
Speaker 1: a conversation where he made yet another odd remark, stating, quote,
8:52
Speaker 1: the case will never be solved, nothing will help Ronda
8:55
Speaker 1: now and other people should not be hurt because of
8:57
Speaker 1: this end quote.
9:00
Speaker 2: Oh my dear lord, what is up with this man?
9:04
Speaker 2: Somebody stop him from speaking because nothing good comes of it,
9:08
Speaker 2: and he just gives these vague, these vague statements, but
9:12
Speaker 2: yet they're very telling. How do you know this for
9:15
Speaker 2: a fact? You are stating that nobody will find out?
9:18
Speaker 2: How do you know you would know if you would
9:20
Speaker 2: dispose of evidence and you had seem to it that
9:23
Speaker 2: there is no way that anything could be tied to
9:27
Speaker 2: potentially your son. Otherwise, if he had nothing to do
9:30
Speaker 2: with it, and this was somebody else, or this was
9:32
Speaker 2: a complete accident, why are you showing up on their
9:35
Speaker 2: doorstep and showing concern for the potential that it could
9:40
Speaker 2: hurt somebody aka his son, whoever would be charged with it.
9:45
Speaker 2: So it feels to me that he's got some inside
9:48
Speaker 2: knowledge or some involvement in what happened. To Ronda.
9:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just very, very self absorbed because ordinarily, yes,
9:55
Speaker 1: you want the person who committed a crime to be
9:57
Speaker 1: hurt because they should be punished for what they did.
10:00
Speaker 1: So why would he be saying something like that unless
10:02
Speaker 1: he felt that his son and his family name would
10:05
Speaker 1: be hurt if this case was ever solved. So now
10:08
Speaker 1: let's get back to the whole Ronda taking showers thing
10:11
Speaker 1: and the speculation that she was a victim of sexual assault,
10:14
Speaker 1: because it turned out that prior to her death, Ronda
10:17
Speaker 1: told her best friend Jill, as well as one of
10:19
Speaker 1: her cousins, that Reverend McDowell had made any appropriate advances
10:23
Speaker 1: toward her. She described an incident where she was exiting
10:26
Speaker 1: the bathroom at the residence and Charles decided to like
10:29
Speaker 1: walk up close to her and corner in the hallway
10:32
Speaker 1: and kind of violate her space, even though he did
10:34
Speaker 1: not actually physically touch her. But there was another time
10:37
Speaker 1: where Ronda went out to a restaurant with the McDowell
10:39
Speaker 1: family and she said that Charles sat beside her and
10:42
Speaker 1: placed his hand on her knee while they were eating.
10:45
Speaker 1: And while she never actually described being raped or sexual
10:48
Speaker 1: assaulted or any the situations escalating after that. That's still
10:52
Speaker 1: troubling behavior, so would not surprised me. Possibly if Charles
10:56
Speaker 1: at one point did a lot more than just put
10:58
Speaker 1: his hand on her knee, but she was reluctant to
11:00
Speaker 1: say anything, and that could have been the reason that
11:02
Speaker 1: she just decided to get up in the night and
11:04
Speaker 1: start having these constant showers.
11:07
Speaker 2: It's possible that that's all that happened. It's also possible
11:11
Speaker 2: that more happened, because when one is sexually assaulted, there's
11:14
Speaker 2: a lot of shame that's attached to that, and a
11:16
Speaker 2: lot of times the victim will blame themselves for the
11:19
Speaker 2: actions of this other person, although incorrect, it's never their fault,
11:24
Speaker 2: but I know from personal experience you can feel that way.
11:28
Speaker 2: And so to then share more information and to go, God,
11:31
Speaker 2: I put myself in this situation and this ended up happening,
11:35
Speaker 2: and now I just feel too ashamed to even like
11:38
Speaker 2: articulate it, because that makes it real, It makes it
11:41
Speaker 2: like a tangible thing once you say it out loud
11:43
Speaker 2: to somebody else. And then also to admit that I
11:46
Speaker 2: was in this position, like I saw the potential that
11:48
Speaker 2: this could happen, yet I still ended up in this position,
11:52
Speaker 2: and this happened to me, And it's just so typical
11:55
Speaker 2: for a victim to blame themselves when it's obvious that
11:59
Speaker 2: this is Charle. She's a teenage girl and the girlfriend
12:03
Speaker 2: of his son, and he's making these advances and he's
12:06
Speaker 2: just a disgusting human being. And I truly hope that
12:10
Speaker 2: nothing more happened to Ronda than what she described, But
12:13
Speaker 2: we're just never going to know the truth unless Charles
12:16
Speaker 2: is one who's going to come forward and admit that
12:18
Speaker 2: he did something to her, and we know that's not
12:20
Speaker 2: going to happen.
12:21
Speaker 1: Definitely not. But the fact that he lost his marriage
12:24
Speaker 1: because he had an affair with one of his parishioners
12:26
Speaker 1: shows that he is capable of stuff like that. And
12:29
Speaker 1: of course it adds more context to the conversations that
12:32
Speaker 1: she had with her father, saying that I have something
12:35
Speaker 1: bad to tell you and you're not going to like it,
12:37
Speaker 1: and she's probably feeling secret shame, like maybe she wanted
12:40
Speaker 1: to tell him about the incident where he put his
12:42
Speaker 1: hand on her leg, or maybe tell him about something worse,
12:45
Speaker 1: but he's she's thinking to herself, well, this is my
12:47
Speaker 1: boyfriend's father. He's also a pastor and a pillar of
12:50
Speaker 1: the community. So no matter what I say, even though
12:53
Speaker 1: it's all his fault, a lot of people are probably
12:55
Speaker 1: going to blame me for it, for leading him on
12:57
Speaker 1: or something like that. And she probably felt a lot
12:59
Speaker 1: of sa secret shame, and that's why she wanted to
13:01
Speaker 1: remain silent.
13:03
Speaker 2: Refresh my memory. What the exact question was that she
13:06
Speaker 2: asked about a married man, Well, I was just.
13:08
Speaker 1: Going to bring that up, and she asked her mother,
13:10
Speaker 1: is it okay to date a married man? And of
13:13
Speaker 1: course her mother said, no, it's never okay. It could
13:15
Speaker 1: hurt a lot of people, and that's when she dropped
13:18
Speaker 1: the subject. And yes, there has been speculation that she
13:21
Speaker 1: may have been referring to something that was going on
13:23
Speaker 1: with her and Charles, but it's also possible that it's
13:26
Speaker 1: a red herring because apparently a couple of years afterwards,
13:29
Speaker 1: one of Ronda's co workers admitted to the family that
13:33
Speaker 1: she had been having an affair with another married man
13:35
Speaker 1: at her workplace and had told Ronda about it. So
13:38
Speaker 1: it's very possible that Ronda was just asking questions because
13:41
Speaker 1: of something her friend did, and it wasn't something that
13:44
Speaker 1: was going on in her own personal life.
13:46
Speaker 2: That seems more likely to me personally, just because I
13:50
Speaker 2: don't see any world in where Ronda would be into
13:53
Speaker 2: the idea of having an affair with Charles, because she
13:56
Speaker 2: seemed to be so off put by him cornering her
14:01
Speaker 2: and then invading her space, and then again putting his
14:04
Speaker 2: hand on her leg in a way that she felt uncomfortable.
14:08
Speaker 2: That doesn't align to me with somebody that is thinking
14:10
Speaker 2: about potentially having an affair with this man. So, yeah,
14:15
Speaker 2: I agree with you. It does sound more like a
14:17
Speaker 2: red herring.
14:17
Speaker 1: I think so too. I don't think she would ever
14:19
Speaker 1: want a consensual affair with him because she always was
14:22
Speaker 1: repulsed by him, so if anything happened, it was probably
14:24
Speaker 1: because he forced himself on her. And while we're on
14:28
Speaker 1: the subject of red herrings, it's possible that the eyewitness
14:32
Speaker 1: account from Reggie Smart, the truck driver who said that
14:35
Speaker 1: he saw a man pulling Ronda's body out of the car,
14:38
Speaker 1: might be nothing more than a red herring, because it's
14:42
Speaker 1: kind of I always assumed that this was the person
14:44
Speaker 1: who killed her, But it turned out that the people
14:47
Speaker 1: who reported the discovery of Ronda's car were a pair
14:49
Speaker 1: of men named Tim Ponce and Mark Nickel, and they
14:53
Speaker 1: claimed that sometime after one am, they were driving down
14:56
Speaker 1: Mineral Springs Mountain Road and decided to pull over when
14:59
Speaker 1: they noticed Ronda's datson in the ditch, and when they
15:01
Speaker 1: watched for a closer look. Oddly, they said that even
15:04
Speaker 1: though they saw a bullet hole and they saw some blood,
15:07
Speaker 1: they claimed they did not see Ronda's body lying on
15:10
Speaker 1: the ground, which seems odd like why wouldn't her body
15:12
Speaker 1: be there? But their story was corroborated by three other
15:15
Speaker 1: eyewitnesses in a blue Toyota pickup truck who were driving
15:19
Speaker 1: through the area and pulled over to check what was
15:21
Speaker 1: going on, and that's when Ponds and Nicol said that
15:24
Speaker 1: they were going to the police, so the two parties
15:26
Speaker 1: went their separate ways. Ponce and Nickel went into town
15:30
Speaker 1: and managed to flag down a patrol officer and lead
15:32
Speaker 1: them back to the scene, and by the time the
15:34
Speaker 1: officer arrived, he was able to confirm that yes, Ronda's
15:37
Speaker 1: body was on the ground and on the surface. The
15:40
Speaker 1: whole situation doesn't seem to make a lot of sense
15:43
Speaker 1: because I don't think like someone would kill Ronda, move
15:46
Speaker 1: her body away and then put it back by the
15:49
Speaker 1: time the police went there. But what's interesting is that
15:53
Speaker 1: Ponce and Nickel actually drove a dark transam which marched
15:57
Speaker 1: the description of the vehicle that Reggie Smarts. So it
16:01
Speaker 1: seems to me that the man who pulled her body
16:03
Speaker 1: out was probably Ponds or Nickel, but for reasons unknown,
16:08
Speaker 1: decided not to tell that story to the police. They
16:10
Speaker 1: just said that they discovered the car and did not
16:13
Speaker 1: handle the body. And I don't know why they would
16:15
Speaker 1: do that. Maybe they thought that they would be incriminated
16:18
Speaker 1: in the crime if they admitted to touching the body.
16:21
Speaker 1: But when you look at the timeline and you look
16:23
Speaker 1: at like the description that Reggie Smart provided, the only
16:26
Speaker 1: explanation that makes sense because he had seen a gray
16:29
Speaker 1: car driving away from the scene which likely had Ronda's killer,
16:33
Speaker 1: is that these two guys, these bystanders, were the one
16:36
Speaker 1: who moved her body and then stayed silent about it
16:39
Speaker 1: and may have compromised the investigation because I have a
16:42
Speaker 1: feeling that if they checked the DNA found on Ronda's weather,
16:45
Speaker 1: it might wind up matching Tim Ponce or Mark nicchol.
16:49
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I agree with you. That sounds like
16:51
Speaker 2: the most likely scenario. Otherwise, how else did her body
16:55
Speaker 2: get out there? And maybe they were just thinking like, oh,
16:58
Speaker 2: I don't want to be tied to this, and you're right.
17:01
Speaker 2: If they run the DNA and it matches one of them,
17:04
Speaker 2: it just if they would have explained a way why
17:06
Speaker 2: their DNA was there in the first place. And I mean,
17:09
Speaker 2: we can read between the lines and say they were
17:12
Speaker 2: likely scared and so they didn't want to be involved
17:15
Speaker 2: in this any more than they needed to be, and
17:17
Speaker 2: so they weren't thinking in nineteen eighty one that they
17:21
Speaker 2: could be incriminating the scene with touch DNA, because it
17:24
Speaker 2: literally wasn't the thing exactly.
17:26
Speaker 1: They would have been thinking about that. But I can
17:28
Speaker 1: only imagine what they might have felt when they watched
17:30
Speaker 1: the Unsolved Mystery segment years earlier, because that lead with
17:33
Speaker 1: the guy pulling Randa's body out of the car was
17:36
Speaker 1: like the biggest development. They were hoping to identify this
17:38
Speaker 1: man because they felt he was Ronda's killer. So I
17:41
Speaker 1: always wonder if they watched that thinking that, ooh, we
17:43
Speaker 1: were the ones who did that, and we did kill her.
17:45
Speaker 1: But if anyone finds out, we're going to get into
17:47
Speaker 1: a lot of trouble. So we're gonna stay quiet about it.
17:51
Speaker 2: If that is the case, they probably went through a
17:53
Speaker 2: bunch of years where they had an incredible amount of
17:56
Speaker 2: anxiety and they were constantly worried that they were going
17:59
Speaker 2: to get caught, and then eventually it probably slowly, year
18:03
Speaker 2: by year dissipates a little bit, and then eventually they're thinking, Okay, look,
18:07
Speaker 2: we got away with the Scott free nothing's happened. But
18:10
Speaker 2: if they were to come forward now and give that
18:13
Speaker 2: context that yes, this happened, this is why we didn't
18:17
Speaker 2: disclose it. And if you run that DNA, it's very
18:20
Speaker 2: possible it could be either of our DNA, it would
18:23
Speaker 2: be incredibly helpful in the case.
18:25
Speaker 1: I think so. And Pont and Nickel were never mentioned
18:27
Speaker 1: in any public accounts of the case until Larry Griffin
18:30
Speaker 1: wrote that series of articles starting in twenty nineteen. And
18:33
Speaker 1: when I read that, I was like, ah, yeah, that
18:36
Speaker 1: was probably them. But I have no idea if these
18:38
Speaker 1: two men are still alive, and I'm thinking that they
18:40
Speaker 1: should come forward, given that their names are already out
18:42
Speaker 1: there and people know that they probably moved the body.
18:47
Speaker 1: So yeah, the main reason I think it's a red
18:48
Speaker 1: herring is that l Azure. Recall, Reggie Smart said that
18:51
Speaker 1: before he saw this guy, he had seen what he
18:55
Speaker 1: described as a blue Chevelle driving away from the scene,
18:58
Speaker 1: and about a half hour before that, other witnesses had
19:01
Speaker 1: reported seeing a car matching that description parked under the
19:04
Speaker 1: overpass with two men sitting inside. So it seems very
19:07
Speaker 1: likely that that car was involved in Ronda's murder. And
19:11
Speaker 1: it turned out that Greg was driving a blue nineteen
19:14
Speaker 1: seventy six Chevy Nova at the time, which was registered
19:17
Speaker 1: to his father. And even though Smart thought that it
19:20
Speaker 1: looked more like a gray Chevelle, Chevelle's looked similar enough
19:23
Speaker 1: to Nova's that he easily could have mistaken them, and
19:26
Speaker 1: because there were poor lighting conditions, he could have also
19:29
Speaker 1: mistakenly believed that the blue paint was gray. And most importantly,
19:34
Speaker 1: as you recall, Smart described the front of the vehicle
19:36
Speaker 1: as looking messed up, and the McDowell's family Nova did
19:40
Speaker 1: have damage to the front end at that time, So
19:43
Speaker 1: in retrospect, it seems very likely that that was the
19:45
Speaker 1: McDowell's car speeding away from the scene right after Ronda's murder.
19:51
Speaker 2: Wow, that does seem to be pretty good evidence that
19:54
Speaker 2: it was the McDowell's car, and honestly, to the surprise
19:57
Speaker 2: of no one, the fact that their car was a
20:00
Speaker 2: the scene. Who was present in that car? Do you
20:03
Speaker 2: think that it was potentially junior and senior, like if
20:07
Speaker 2: it was Charles, Charles ng Greg.
20:10
Speaker 1: People have pushed that forward as an idea. But what's
20:13
Speaker 1: crazy is that when we discover Ronda's vehicle, the driver's
20:16
Speaker 1: side window was rolled down, and because it was a
20:19
Speaker 1: very cold night, they don't think that she would have
20:21
Speaker 1: rolled it down just to drive home. So they've always
20:23
Speaker 1: suspected that she did stop and talked to someone, and
20:27
Speaker 1: they figured that she might have done that for Greg,
20:29
Speaker 1: but they thought that if Charles had been at the
20:31
Speaker 1: scene with them, she probably wouldn't have stopped for him
20:34
Speaker 1: because she was afraid of him, and I think she
20:36
Speaker 1: would have considered it be a red flag. Charles and
20:39
Speaker 1: Greg were at the scene together. But in a couple moments,
20:42
Speaker 1: I'm going to bring up another potential suspect who could
20:45
Speaker 1: have been the second man inside the vehicle. So another
20:49
Speaker 1: thing that looked incriminating from the McDowell's is that when
20:51
Speaker 1: Ronda's vehicle was discovered, there were three items in the
20:54
Speaker 1: back that her family swears were not there when she
20:57
Speaker 1: originally left the house for the Christmas party. One of
21:00
Speaker 1: them was a letter jacket from Eastbrook High School, which
21:02
Speaker 1: belonged to her. Another one was a hooded gray sweat
21:05
Speaker 1: jacket which also belonged to her, and also a stuffed
21:08
Speaker 1: pink snake which Ronda had won as a prize for
21:11
Speaker 1: Greg during a trip to Myrtle Beach that they had
21:13
Speaker 1: taken during the summer of nineteen eighty one. So before
21:16
Speaker 1: she left for the Christmas party, Ronda had asked her
21:19
Speaker 1: father if he could drive the car up to the
21:21
Speaker 1: front door for her because she wanted to avoid getting
21:24
Speaker 1: her shoes dirty, and Bobby would say that he was
21:26
Speaker 1: absolutely certain that those two jackets and the pinak snake
21:30
Speaker 1: were not in the back seat. Well, he was in
21:32
Speaker 1: the car, and as you recall, Ronda drove her friend
21:35
Speaker 1: Sheery Pittman home from the Christmas party, and Shery would
21:38
Speaker 1: also say, I don't recall seeing those items in the
21:41
Speaker 1: back seat when I was dropped off. So it seems
21:44
Speaker 1: that somehow, within the next thirty to forty minutes after
21:47
Speaker 1: Ronda left Sherry's house, those items wound up on the
21:50
Speaker 1: back seat by the time her car was discovered in
21:53
Speaker 1: the ditch.
21:54
Speaker 2: That is so weird, isn't it. I guess if you
21:57
Speaker 2: couple it with the fact that the windows rolled down,
22:00
Speaker 2: there is a very high probability that she bumped into
22:04
Speaker 2: somebody she had to otherwise, how did those items get
22:08
Speaker 2: there and why would her window be rolled down?
22:11
Speaker 1: Yes, it totally fits the timeline because it did turn
22:14
Speaker 1: out that a few days prior to her death, Ronda
22:17
Speaker 1: had left her school letter jacket at Greg's residence, and
22:20
Speaker 1: as far as anyone knew, she didn't get it back
22:23
Speaker 1: because when Ron left for work on the morning of
22:26
Speaker 1: December the twenty second, she asked if she could borrow
22:28
Speaker 1: her brother Robbie's jacket because she did not have her own.
22:32
Speaker 1: So this could be a thing where Greg pulled her
22:35
Speaker 1: over because this is a route she always drove home,
22:37
Speaker 1: so he would have known she would have been there,
22:39
Speaker 1: so he could have flagged her down and says, I'm
22:41
Speaker 1: going to give you back the jacket, and that's what
22:43
Speaker 1: convinced Ron to pull over and roll down the window. Though,
22:47
Speaker 1: the presidence of the snake is a weird thing, because
22:49
Speaker 1: why would Greg bring like this pink snake to like
22:53
Speaker 1: the side of the road to give to her in
22:55
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, unless it was maybe something saying, oh,
22:58
Speaker 1: remember when we went to Myrtle Beach this and won
23:01
Speaker 1: me like a pet snake that shows much better times
23:04
Speaker 1: and cho when our relationship was in a good place.
23:06
Speaker 1: Maybe it would have been a manipulative thing to convince
23:08
Speaker 1: ron and not to break up with him or something
23:10
Speaker 1: like that. But whatever happened, I know that both Bobby
23:14
Speaker 1: and Sherry were certain that that pink snake was not
23:16
Speaker 1: in the car earlier that night, and somehow showed up
23:19
Speaker 1: there before she was killed.
23:21
Speaker 2: I can't think of any other explanation than what you
23:24
Speaker 2: just said. If it was something that was going to
23:26
Speaker 2: be used to try to either to aid drop her
23:29
Speaker 2: guards so she's relaxed and he can then take a
23:33
Speaker 2: shot at her, or be try to get her back
23:37
Speaker 2: in some way, And maybe he felt as though he
23:40
Speaker 2: wasn't going to get her back, or his actions or
23:43
Speaker 2: his efforts weren't going to be rewarded in the way
23:46
Speaker 2: that he was hoping, so then he basically enacted his
23:51
Speaker 2: contingency plan, which was to take a shot at her,
23:54
Speaker 2: either to scare her or to harm her.
23:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, possibly, and I don't know if he was planning
24:00
Speaker 1: to kill her, Like maybe he thought he was only
24:02
Speaker 1: going to scare her. But the fact that he had
24:03
Speaker 1: a hunting rifle with him to begin with is obviously
24:06
Speaker 1: a major red flag because if this was just a
24:08
Speaker 1: meetup where you wanted to speak with her or just
24:11
Speaker 1: flag her down to return her jacket, you would not
24:13
Speaker 1: need to bring a rifle to the scene unless you
24:15
Speaker 1: were planning it to do something. And maybe he thought, well,
24:19
Speaker 1: we're going to reconcile or something like that. But maybe
24:21
Speaker 1: at that moment she told Greg that she was going
24:23
Speaker 1: to break up with him and that's when he lost it.
24:26
Speaker 1: And they figured that the rifle was probably fired while
24:29
Speaker 1: Ronda was driving away, so it could have just been
24:32
Speaker 1: like maybe he was planning to fire a warning shot
24:34
Speaker 1: and just never dreamed that it would just go right
24:37
Speaker 1: through the trunk and through the back seat in the
24:38
Speaker 1: front seat and pierce her right through the heart.
24:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like he maybe was just trying to
24:44
Speaker 2: scare her, because I think if he was trying to
24:46
Speaker 2: kill her, you would take more than one shot.
24:48
Speaker 1: That's what I'm thinking as well. Yeah, I don't think
24:50
Speaker 1: it was premeditated But the thing that really really confuses
24:54
Speaker 1: me is the presence of the second jacket in Ronda's
24:57
Speaker 1: back seat, which was a hooded gray sweatsh jacket. It
25:01
Speaker 1: turned out that she had gone Christmas shopping with Mark Turner,
25:04
Speaker 1: who was the boyfriend of her best friend Jill, and
25:06
Speaker 1: wound up leaving her hooded sweat jacket in his car.
25:10
Speaker 1: And I know that Mark and Jill had spent the
25:13
Speaker 1: evening of December the twenty second hanging out together before
25:16
Speaker 1: Mark drove Jill back to her residence and dropped her
25:19
Speaker 1: off at around twelve twenty five am on December the
25:22
Speaker 1: twenty third, which was about thirty to forty minutes before
25:26
Speaker 1: Ronda's body was found. But what's weird is that Jill
25:29
Speaker 1: claimed that when she exited Mark's car, she noticed Ronda's
25:32
Speaker 1: sweat jacket in the back seat, and she asked Mark
25:35
Speaker 1: if she could take it and give it back to
25:37
Speaker 1: Ronda at a later time, but Mark said no, it's okay.
25:40
Speaker 1: I'm going to give it to Greg and then he
25:42
Speaker 1: can return it to Ronda. And then Mark drove away.
25:45
Speaker 1: And this was only about a half mile from the
25:47
Speaker 1: spot where Ronda was killed, and Mark probably would have
25:50
Speaker 1: been heading in that direction when he was heading home,
25:54
Speaker 1: And of course they questioned him afterwards, saying that do
25:56
Speaker 1: you recall how the sweat jacket that was in your
25:59
Speaker 1: car in Ronda's car within the next half hour, And
26:03
Speaker 1: Mark said, honestly, I have no recollection of ever giving
26:06
Speaker 1: the jacket back to her. And he says, but I
26:08
Speaker 1: had been suffering from a back injury at the time,
26:11
Speaker 1: and I've been taking a lot of pain medications, so
26:13
Speaker 1: that whole era is a blur, So I honestly don't
26:15
Speaker 1: remember what happened. And so that also looks pretty suspicious.
26:19
Speaker 2: That's majorly suspicious. And how long after Bronda's murder did
26:25
Speaker 2: they question him.
26:27
Speaker 1: I think it was like maybe a couple weeks or so,
26:29
Speaker 1: but not long afterwards. And I'm thinking, though, even if
26:33
Speaker 1: you were on a lot of pain pills at the time,
26:35
Speaker 1: I think the night when your girlfriend's best friend when
26:37
Speaker 1: murdered would be a memorable enough event that you would
26:40
Speaker 1: remember a lot of the events that happened. And remember
26:43
Speaker 1: if you had given the jacket back to Ronda or Greg.
26:46
Speaker 2: And if you were still messed up on pain pills,
26:48
Speaker 2: why are you awake at that time? They're a downer,
26:51
Speaker 2: not an upper. So you're still awake and you're cognizant
26:55
Speaker 2: enough to be driving around. Sure, you could be really
26:58
Speaker 2: messed up, but I would think there's a probability that
27:00
Speaker 2: she would remember that. It's not like he's being asked
27:03
Speaker 2: three years later exactly.
27:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, And as you recall, there were a number
27:09
Speaker 1: of witnesses who saw it, like the blue Chevy underneath
27:12
Speaker 1: the overpass, and they said that they saw two men
27:14
Speaker 1: in there, not just one. So I think it's very
27:17
Speaker 1: possible that Mark was heading in that direction he noticed
27:20
Speaker 1: Greg park there and decided to stop by and give
27:23
Speaker 1: him the jacket, and that maybe Greg wound up giving
27:26
Speaker 1: the gray jacket Toronda when she stopped by a short
27:29
Speaker 1: time later. But in Mark's defense, he was driving a
27:33
Speaker 1: gold nineteen seventy seven Buick Regel at that time, and
27:36
Speaker 1: even though a bunch of eye witnesses reported a number
27:39
Speaker 1: of different vehicles near the scene, no one has ever
27:42
Speaker 1: seen reported seeing a gold Buick Regal anywhere in the vicinity,
27:46
Speaker 1: so Mark cannot be placed there. But I'm thinking to myself,
27:50
Speaker 1: if this was just an inocentt case where Mark saw
27:52
Speaker 1: Greg stopped by and gave him the jacket and then
27:55
Speaker 1: drove away and Ronda's murder took place like after he
27:58
Speaker 1: already left. Then Mark technically didn't do anything wrong, So
28:02
Speaker 1: why has he remained silent all this time? Like? Why
28:04
Speaker 1: is he lying about giving the jacket to Greg? Did
28:07
Speaker 1: he really want to cover for him to like let
28:10
Speaker 1: his friend get away with murder.
28:12
Speaker 2: It sounds like he's got a lot more to do
28:15
Speaker 2: with it than just simply dropping off the jacket. Maybe
28:20
Speaker 2: he was just more aware of what happened, and maybe
28:22
Speaker 2: he's of the mindset where he doesn't want to rat
28:26
Speaker 2: on his friend. I don't know, or maybe he thinks
28:29
Speaker 2: he's more complicit because he stood by and watched it
28:33
Speaker 2: happen and then did nothing. I have no idea why, like,
28:38
Speaker 2: other than being more involved than he's alluding to their
28:42
Speaker 2: being a potential that he was. He's basically saying, oh yeah,
28:46
Speaker 2: like I may have given her that sweater or anything
28:48
Speaker 2: might have happened. I don't remember. I was messed up
28:50
Speaker 2: on pain pills. He's trying to basically blackout that whole
28:54
Speaker 2: night and say like I don't really remember anything so
28:58
Speaker 2: that we can't like tie him to anything specifically. And
29:01
Speaker 2: I agree with you if he had just simply handed
29:04
Speaker 2: that sweater over, that's what you would say. You would
29:07
Speaker 2: want to get to the bottom of what happened. So
29:10
Speaker 2: it just leads me to believe that he knows a
29:11
Speaker 2: lot more than he's telling us.
29:14
Speaker 1: That's what I'm thinking as well. And it's also worth
29:16
Speaker 1: mentioning that Jill and Mark wound up breaking up a
29:19
Speaker 1: short time later, and she would say that one of
29:21
Speaker 1: the contributing factors is that she thought that Mark was
29:24
Speaker 1: acting very cold and insensitive towards her about Ronda's death,
29:28
Speaker 1: even though she had lost her best friend. So it
29:30
Speaker 1: almost feels like he has some sort of guilty knowledge
29:33
Speaker 1: as well. And I do think there's a good chance
29:35
Speaker 1: that Mark may have been the second man seen inside
29:37
Speaker 1: the blue Chevy alongside Greg. But like I said in
29:41
Speaker 1: his defense, Mark's own vehicle, a gold nineteen seventy seven
29:45
Speaker 1: Buick Regal, has never been placed at the scene, so
29:49
Speaker 1: if he was inside Greg's vehicle, I'm wondering where he
29:51
Speaker 1: parked the Buick Regal, and maybe if the witnesses just
29:54
Speaker 1: didn't see it. But I do think that after the
29:57
Speaker 1: murder took place, that if Mark was present, that he
29:59
Speaker 1: and Rake high tailed it out of there, and there's
30:01
Speaker 1: separate vehicles and have remained silent about it ever since.
30:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds like you're pretty good theory, because otherwise,
30:09
Speaker 2: if I guess if you parked your view a regal
30:12
Speaker 2: somewhere that like nobody could see, I don't really know
30:14
Speaker 2: what the landscape was like there, if there was somewhere
30:17
Speaker 2: that you could park to easily conceal a vehicle, and
30:20
Speaker 2: then maybe he just jumped in with Greg. That is
30:24
Speaker 2: entirely plausible. But do we know how loose the two
30:27
Speaker 2: of them were?
30:29
Speaker 1: Uh? I mean, they were friends, but it sounds like
30:31
Speaker 1: they were more like mutual friends, maybe just because he
30:33
Speaker 1: happened to be dating Ronda's best friend Jill. So I
30:36
Speaker 1: wouldn't say that they were close enough that if Greg
30:39
Speaker 1: committed a murder that Mark would be willing to stay
30:41
Speaker 1: silent and cover for him, unless he was somehow complicit
30:45
Speaker 1: and did something that could have got him charged with
30:47
Speaker 1: something criminally. But yeah, it does seem likely to me
30:51
Speaker 1: that after this took place, they went their separate ways
30:53
Speaker 1: and then Greg drove home told his father about what
30:56
Speaker 1: they did, and they helped cover for him and get
30:59
Speaker 1: rid of ittential evidence, and of course Charles decided to
31:03
Speaker 1: take the lead because when he got the call from
31:04
Speaker 1: the Hintsons about an hour later, he drives off to
31:07
Speaker 1: like the murder scene and accompanies the detectives to the
31:10
Speaker 1: hints In residences when they're informed about what happened to Ronda,
31:13
Speaker 1: so he can keep an eye on everything that's going
31:15
Speaker 1: on in the investigation. So, of course, when Larry Griffin
31:19
Speaker 1: wrote his series of articles many many years later, Greg
31:23
Speaker 1: did not want to talk to him. Betty did not
31:25
Speaker 1: want to talk to him. His mother, I think she
31:27
Speaker 1: was in a nursing home at that point. But surprisingly,
31:30
Speaker 1: in December of twenty twenty one, Charles, who was in
31:33
Speaker 1: his mid eighties at that point and had since remarried,
31:36
Speaker 1: agreed to sit down and give an interview to Larry Griffin.
31:40
Speaker 1: But his answers were considered to be evasive, and of
31:43
Speaker 1: course he denied any allegations that he was involved in
31:45
Speaker 1: Rhonda's murder or had made any inappropriate advances towards her.
31:49
Speaker 1: But at one point, even though Griffin never even brought
31:52
Speaker 1: up the subject of DNA, and Charles suddenly stated, out
31:55
Speaker 1: of the blue, quote and I don't believe they have
31:58
Speaker 1: my DNA either. I wasn't at the scene that night,
32:00
Speaker 1: so I didn't leave any DNA. I have never given
32:03
Speaker 1: any DNA to anyone, and I don't think they have
32:05
Speaker 1: Greg's either. End quote. And once again he said this
32:08
Speaker 1: completely out of the blue, even though Griffin never even
32:10
Speaker 1: brought up the topic of DNA.
32:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that that is unprompted. Basically, he's
32:16
Speaker 2: leaking some of the truth there. There's some kind of
32:19
Speaker 2: admission where he's the dude, doth protest too much, like Charles,
32:24
Speaker 2: you're doing too much. You should have said nothing at all,
32:27
Speaker 2: because every time you open your mouth, it's like these
32:30
Speaker 2: vague admissions.
32:33
Speaker 1: Exactly, And technically what he's saying might be true, because
32:36
Speaker 1: if the DNA belongs to Tim Plants or Alan Nicol,
32:40
Speaker 1: they probably were the ones who left it there. So
32:42
Speaker 1: it is true that neither Greg or Charles's DNA will
32:45
Speaker 1: be found at the scene. So he's saying that, so, hey,
32:48
Speaker 1: since I volunteered this, that proves that we have to
32:50
Speaker 1: be innocent because you have no physical evidence linking to
32:53
Speaker 1: the crime. But it just sounds like projection, like he's
32:56
Speaker 1: trying to like divert the suspicion away by talking about
32:59
Speaker 1: the evidence which seems to clear him.
33:01
Speaker 2: I think it's weird that Greg's DNA wouldn't be at
33:03
Speaker 2: the scene. It's a vehicle, it's his girlfriend's vehicle, and
33:07
Speaker 2: if he handed her those items of clothing, I would
33:10
Speaker 2: just think that, like his DNA would be all over
33:12
Speaker 2: that vehicle. It would be more odd to me if
33:15
Speaker 2: there was no DNA of his bound exactly.
33:18
Speaker 1: Like I'm sure that his DNA might not be on
33:21
Speaker 1: the sweater, the touch DNA, because I'm not entirely sure
33:24
Speaker 1: he touched her body that night, but it's reasonable to
33:27
Speaker 1: assume that his DNA is going to be on the
33:28
Speaker 1: jacket and the snake and a number of items in
33:31
Speaker 1: the car. And for all we know, maybe his fingerprints
33:34
Speaker 1: were on the window that conveniently went missing during the
33:37
Speaker 1: mid nineteen nineties. So there is evidence Lincoln into the scene.
33:41
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it really does seem like there's a
33:43
Speaker 1: family cover up. And Greg is now in his sixties.
33:47
Speaker 1: He's gone on and gotten married and moved on with
33:49
Speaker 1: his life, And as far as I can tell, Charles
33:52
Speaker 1: is still alive. I think he would be eighty seven
33:54
Speaker 1: or eighty eight years old this year. But I think
33:56
Speaker 1: the good news is that Judy and Bobby Hinson are
33:59
Speaker 1: also both to alive in their eighties and they're still
34:02
Speaker 1: seeking answers. I know that they have constantly talked to
34:04
Speaker 1: Larry Griffin and the local media keeping Ronda's case in
34:08
Speaker 1: the spotlight, So they are still holding out hope that
34:11
Speaker 1: they will see a resolution in this case before they
34:13
Speaker 1: pass away.
34:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, my heart really goes out to Judy and Bobby.
34:17
Speaker 2: Feels like such an injustice when you have evidence go
34:21
Speaker 2: missing and you have these really good suspects who behave
34:25
Speaker 2: very very strangely, and Charles just who keeps popping up
34:30
Speaker 2: and saying stupid things, and Greg who behaved in a
34:36
Speaker 2: strange way in the aftermath. When we couple it with
34:39
Speaker 2: his coercive, controlling type behavior prior to Ronda's death, When
34:46
Speaker 2: we look at the way that he acted, the throwing
34:48
Speaker 2: up and the not speaking to anybody, everybody grieves differently.
34:53
Speaker 2: That is for sure a blanket statement that we apply
34:55
Speaker 2: to pretty much every case. When you try to analyze
34:58
Speaker 2: somebody's grief process, you really can't. All we can do
35:02
Speaker 2: is look at Greg in a holistic manner and say,
35:06
Speaker 2: this is a guy that it seems like there's a
35:08
Speaker 2: very strong likelihood that, personally, I believe that he was
35:12
Speaker 2: trying to scare her, maybe injure her. But I don't
35:15
Speaker 2: believe that he was trying to kill her, because I
35:18
Speaker 2: think if he was, he would have taken multiple shots,
35:21
Speaker 2: not just assumed that one shot would finish the job.
35:26
Speaker 1: That's what I'm thinking as well, And his constant vomiting
35:28
Speaker 1: later that morning gives me the impression that, like, if
35:31
Speaker 1: he had planned to kill her all along, he probably
35:33
Speaker 1: wouldn't be so overwhelmed with anxiety and guilt. But I
35:36
Speaker 1: think it was hitting him that I killed my girlfriend
35:38
Speaker 1: even though I wasn't intending to, And now I'm going
35:41
Speaker 1: to have to face the police and become a potential
35:43
Speaker 1: suspect any murder investigation. But of course, the big question
35:47
Speaker 1: now that I've heard all this new information is like,
35:50
Speaker 1: why wasn't any of this mentioned on Unsolved Mysteries back
35:53
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nine, Because if I known about Greg
35:56
Speaker 1: McDowell and Charles McDowell and all this incriminating information, I
36:00
Speaker 1: would have looked at this case in a much different
36:02
Speaker 1: light when I covered it on the Trail Went Cold
36:04
Speaker 1: nine years ago, and I know Unsolved Mysteries has a
36:07
Speaker 1: history of suspects who have been willing to appear on
36:10
Speaker 1: camera and try to proclaim their innocence, and we've seen
36:13
Speaker 1: people like Jewel kal Or who have been themselves, yeah,
36:16
Speaker 1: the ultimate example where they just don't care how they
36:18
Speaker 1: look and make themselves appear even worse and more suspicious.
36:22
Speaker 1: But we've heard nothing about Greg McDowell or Charles McDowell.
36:26
Speaker 1: And I'd be curious to know if Unsolved Mysteries ever
36:28
Speaker 1: asked them to be interviewed and they said no, and
36:30
Speaker 1: they were probably thinking to themselves, well, they've never been
36:33
Speaker 1: named as suspects or persons of interest, so for legal reasons,
36:36
Speaker 1: we can't mention anything about them on this episode. And
36:39
Speaker 1: if you watch it today, if there are just so
36:41
Speaker 1: many red herrings, like the married man and like the
36:44
Speaker 1: man seen pulling the body out of the car, you
36:47
Speaker 1: realize that none of this has anything to do with it,
36:50
Speaker 1: and that the solution is probably a lot more simple.
36:53
Speaker 2: And I think if you were going to get anybody
36:54
Speaker 2: to talk, you'd likely be able to get Greg to
36:57
Speaker 2: like dig his own grave, because he seems to like
36:59
Speaker 2: to talk. Not Greg, Sorry, you're be able to get
37:01
Speaker 2: Charles to dig his own grave, whereas I think that
37:04
Speaker 2: Greg is a little more trepidacious, and he seems to
37:07
Speaker 2: be more cautious, maybe because he truly is guilty, that
37:11
Speaker 2: he feels guilty about what he's done. And if we're
37:14
Speaker 2: to look at the vomiting and we're too from that
37:16
Speaker 2: context of he feels really bad. It wasn't his intention
37:20
Speaker 2: to kill her, it was just to scare her, then
37:22
Speaker 2: maybe he doesn't trust himself to be able to hold
37:25
Speaker 2: back his guilt and to not appear like he feels
37:29
Speaker 2: really sorry for his actions. If he's to speak to somebody,
37:32
Speaker 2: so he's going to operate cautiously and to say I'm
37:36
Speaker 2: not going to talk to anybody because it's not going
37:39
Speaker 2: to help me in any way, shape or form.
37:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's exactly what happened, because he has
37:44
Speaker 1: never been extensively interrogated, and I think it was because
37:47
Speaker 1: his parents automatically provided him with an alibi right away,
37:51
Speaker 1: saying he was home all night. And of course this
37:53
Speaker 1: is a small town not used to dealing with homicides,
37:56
Speaker 1: and Reverend Charles was a respected pastor in the communities,
38:00
Speaker 1: so they're probably never thinking that a guy like that
38:02
Speaker 1: is going to lie to protect his son from being
38:04
Speaker 1: a murder suspect. So Greg had never had to be
38:08
Speaker 1: extensively interrogated, and I don't think he's spoken to the
38:10
Speaker 1: police at all these past four decades. But he does
38:13
Speaker 1: fit the profile of someone if you got him in
38:15
Speaker 1: an interrogation room and you pushed him hard enough, then
38:17
Speaker 1: maybe he would eventually break and confess. But I think
38:20
Speaker 1: he's self aware enough not to do that. Whereas Charles McDowell,
38:24
Speaker 1: I could see him going on Unsolved Mysteries, pulling a
38:26
Speaker 1: jewel Kayler saying it was rough losing lurand at first,
38:29
Speaker 1: but now all things are pretty good.
38:31
Speaker 2: What one hundred percent? That is exactly the trajectory I
38:35
Speaker 2: was seeing too. I'm like, I'm surprised that Charles didn't
38:38
Speaker 2: do it, just because from what you've told me, I
38:40
Speaker 2: get the impression that he's like a little bit of
38:42
Speaker 2: a showboat.
38:43
Speaker 1: He is, yes, and the fact that he was so
38:45
Speaker 1: willing to speak with Larry Griffin all these years later,
38:48
Speaker 1: even though the case is going back into the spotlight,
38:50
Speaker 1: seems to me that he's someone who will defend his
38:53
Speaker 1: innocence no matter what, even if he could potentially incriminate himself.
38:57
Speaker 2: I love that Larry Griffin did this really deep dive
38:59
Speaker 2: and we're getting this view of Ronda that we would
39:02
Speaker 2: have never got, and all of these other people who
39:05
Speaker 2: are connected to or in tangentially connected to her, and
39:08
Speaker 2: all of these potentials and something that we looked at
39:10
Speaker 2: that could be this thing, maybe she's having an affair
39:13
Speaker 2: with a married man. Well, no, it's likely just a
39:16
Speaker 2: red herring because her friend asked her about that, because
39:19
Speaker 2: that was their experience and not Ronda's. And being able
39:23
Speaker 2: to find this context with all these gross interactions with
39:27
Speaker 2: Charles that we maybe can tie to these showers that
39:30
Speaker 2: she was taking and saying that she felt dirty and
39:33
Speaker 2: the big thing that she had to tell her dad
39:35
Speaker 2: that she just never got a chance to do. It's
39:38
Speaker 2: just so important in these cases to know these small details.
39:43
Speaker 2: So I really think Charles Griffin, wherever he is, for
39:46
Speaker 2: giving us this context and this nuance all of the
39:51
Speaker 2: layers of this case were able to look at it
39:53
Speaker 2: from a completely different lens.
39:55
Speaker 1: Yes, And I am actually hoping that he does a
39:58
Speaker 1: long form podcast at some point because there are just
40:00
Speaker 1: so many articles that I'm thinking to myself, this needs
40:02
Speaker 1: to be resented in podcast forms so that no more
40:05
Speaker 1: people get this whole story because the newspaper he wrote
40:09
Speaker 1: it in, the Wilkes Record, is a pretty small one,
40:11
Speaker 1: so I'd wag sure that the vast majority of people
40:13
Speaker 1: out there have never read this and are basing their
40:16
Speaker 1: assumption about this case based solely on the unsolved Mystery segment,
40:20
Speaker 1: which is now outdated and doesn't give the whole story.
40:23
Speaker 1: So I do hope that all this work eventually pays
40:26
Speaker 1: off and that maybe this will be featured on a
40:28
Speaker 1: bigger true crime show and a documentary series or a
40:30
Speaker 1: podcast series, because once you know the whole story, it
40:33
Speaker 1: seems pretty obvious that yes, this was not an accident
40:36
Speaker 1: by a stranger and was not ron to being killed
40:39
Speaker 1: by a married man. It just seems like she was
40:41
Speaker 1: killed by a strange boyfriend, Greg McDowell, and that he
40:45
Speaker 1: has somehow managed to get away with it for over
40:47
Speaker 1: forty years now.
40:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, this would make a really excellent long form podcast.
40:52
Speaker 2: So yeah, I really hope Charles Griffin does that because
40:55
Speaker 2: you could really just get into the details here. There's
40:58
Speaker 2: so many interesting el men's and connections, so I would
41:03
Speaker 2: really hope he's got so much material to go with.
41:06
Speaker 1: Oh, definitely. Yes. Like I mentioned earlier, is I'd encourage
41:09
Speaker 1: after listening to this everyone like read these articles if
41:12
Speaker 1: he can, because there's so much information I couldn't get
41:15
Speaker 1: into here, because it goes so in depth about Ronda's
41:18
Speaker 1: life and so many of the other people in our life,
41:20
Speaker 1: and a lot of the stuff about the original investigation
41:23
Speaker 1: that it provides such a clear picture about what happened
41:25
Speaker 1: in this case.
41:26
Speaker 2: I'll get you to send me a write up on
41:28
Speaker 2: this case, link your sources so then people can go
41:32
Speaker 2: down to our sources and they can explore these articles
41:35
Speaker 2: that Charles Griffin wrote, because I know that a lot
41:37
Speaker 2: of people are going to finish listening to this episode
41:40
Speaker 2: and want to know more.
41:41
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's eighty one parts long, so pre prepared
41:44
Speaker 1: for a very large rabbit hole. So before we conclude
41:47
Speaker 1: any further thoughts on the murder of Ronda Hinson.
41:50
Speaker 2: No, this was a really interesting case. I'm glad that
41:54
Speaker 2: you chose this to share this with me, especially because
41:57
Speaker 2: it's got such vintage vibes that it goes back nine
42:00
Speaker 2: years to episode number four of The Trail Went Cold,
42:03
Speaker 2: back when you were a baby podcaster.
42:05
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I probably cringe if I go back and
42:07
Speaker 1: listen to that episode now. But when people have always
42:10
Speaker 1: asked me over the years, is there any case you'd
42:12
Speaker 1: covered on The Trail Went Cold where you've changed your
42:14
Speaker 1: original thoughts since you released the episode. I always mentioned
42:17
Speaker 1: this one because, like I mentioned in that episode, I
42:20
Speaker 1: leaned towards ron as death being an accident with a
42:23
Speaker 1: stray bullet by a complete stranger. But now I've done
42:25
Speaker 1: a complete one eighty and think that she was likely
42:28
Speaker 1: killed by her boyfriend. So that ends our coverage about
42:31
Speaker 1: the murder of Ronda Hinson. Thank you so much for
42:33
Speaker 1: listening to us, and we will have Ashley back for
42:36
Speaker 1: our next Theories of episodes. But until then, have yourself,
42:39
Speaker 1: say a great series of weeks, Robin.
42:41
Speaker 2: Do you want to tell us a little bit about
42:43
Speaker 2: the Trail Went Cold? Patreon?
42:45
Speaker 1: Yes, The Trail and Cold Patreon has been around for
42:47
Speaker 1: three years now, and we offer these standard bonus features
42:51
Speaker 1: like early ad free episodes, and I also send out
42:54
Speaker 1: stickers and signed thank you cards to anyone who signs
42:57
Speaker 1: up with us on Patreon if you join our five
42:59
Speaker 1: dollar tier Tier two. We also offer monthly bonus episodes
43:04
Speaker 1: in which I talk about cases which are not featured
43:07
Speaker 1: on The Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive
43:10
Speaker 1: to Patreon and if you join our highest tier, Tier three,
43:13
Speaker 1: the ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer
43:16
Speaker 1: is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsawved Mysteries,
43:21
Speaker 1: where you can download an audio file and then boot
43:24
Speaker 1: up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
43:27
Speaker 1: YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in
43:30
Speaker 1: the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about
43:34
Speaker 1: the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very
43:37
Speaker 1: first episode that I did a commentary track over was
43:40
Speaker 1: the episode featuring this case. So if you want to
43:43
Speaker 1: download a commentary track in which I make more smart
43:45
Speaker 1: ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join
43:49
Speaker 1: Tier three.
43:49
Speaker 3: So I want to let you know a little bit
43:51
Speaker 3: about the Jeweles and Nashty. Patreon so there's early ad
43:54
Speaker 3: free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our
43:57
Speaker 3: Path Went Chili minis, which are always over an so
44:00
Speaker 3: they're not very many, but they're just too short to
44:02
Speaker 3: turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those,
44:05
Speaker 3: so we hope you'll check out those patreons, we'll link
44:08
Speaker 3: them in the show notes.
44:09
Speaker 1: So I want to thank you all for listening, and
44:11
Speaker 1: any chance you have to share us on social media
44:14
Speaker 1: with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciated.
44:17
Speaker 1: You can email us at the Pathwentchili at gmail dot com.
44:20
Speaker 1: You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwink. So
44:23
Speaker 1: until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold
44:26
Speaker 1: trails and chili pass call for warm clothing.
44:28
Speaker 2: Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy