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Confess Your Sins To One Another · The Reformatory

0:00
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you got for me?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do
0:32
[SPEAKER_02]: As long as I'm not for me, we're going to have the benediction right there, that was so good.
0:36
[SPEAKER_06]: What's going on everyone and welcome to the reformatory, the podcast for the local church and by the local church.
0:42
[SPEAKER_06]: And we are your local churchman.
0:43
[SPEAKER_06]: My name is Josh and I'm here as always with the captain Jack.
0:48
[SPEAKER_06]: Barry Jack it's good to see you my man it's been a it's been a it's been a it's been a I feel I and in already long week and it's only Monday true and it's just kind of how how I'm how I'm feeling but uh yeah had a had a had a really had a really cool weekend I was able to do a pulpit fill down at Redeemer Bible Church in West Seattle
1:16
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Tyler Whitman is kind of the main preaching pastor there along with a couple other elders.
1:23
[SPEAKER_06]: Dude, awesome spot, really cool people, very encouraging kind congregation, dope building.
1:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Where's it at West Seattle?
1:35
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean the building looks close from the inside Clover field.
1:39
[SPEAKER_06]: It's on Clover field Yeah, so you go over the bridges, right?
1:44
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, to get into West Seattle, right?
1:46
[SPEAKER_06]: And then It's it's kind of just it's it's in like a residential
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[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, neighborhood, which is nice, uh, but really cool building.
1:56
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if you saw the pick that I posted or they're saying.
1:58
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, but yeah, I must sucker for like nice
2:03
[SPEAKER_06]: Sanctuaries.
2:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Nice bandage buildings.
2:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, exactly.
2:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly of them out there.
2:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, there are the baptists aren't no clutter.
2:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know.
2:15
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, baptists aren't known for their like their architectural beauty, right?
2:23
[SPEAKER_06]: But to every once in a while, you know, you'll find one that either inherited a Lutheran church or had some like some history and
2:31
[SPEAKER_06]: Axe 29 or something like that.
2:33
[SPEAKER_06]: We're uh.
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[SPEAKER_06]: got to get the image, but this church was beautiful and it was wonderful.
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[SPEAKER_06]: So shout out to Pastor Tyler and Redeemer Bible Church down there in West Seattle.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Doing the hard work in the dark streets of Seattle, man.
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[SPEAKER_06]: True.
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[SPEAKER_04]: There's other, we'll say West Seattle is a little bit of an upgrade, then Seattle proper.
2:52
[SPEAKER_06]: That's true.
2:53
[SPEAKER_06]: It's true.
2:54
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
2:55
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that is fair, but you know,
3:03
[SPEAKER_06]: Jack, how do your lords they go?
3:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's pretty good.
3:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
3:09
[SPEAKER_04]: So we've been going through ecclesiasties and that has been like one punch in the face to the next dude.
3:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah.
3:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah.
3:18
[SPEAKER_04]: That is that is a interesting book.
3:21
[SPEAKER_04]: I do not.
3:22
[SPEAKER_04]: I do not envy my pastures in trying to expositionally try to pull out stuff like that because it is it is like a pink Floyd song wrapped in Hebrew context and understanding basically like it bit like and that's really true like if you listen to dark side of the moon you just
3:50
[SPEAKER_04]: is just ecclesiasties, dude.
3:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Most of dark side of the moon is just straight to ecclesiasties.
3:56
[SPEAKER_06]: You know how they say, you know how they say, if you start, if you start, if you start dark side of the moon and Wizard of Oz at the same time that it oddly lines up, right?
4:06
[SPEAKER_06]: We start dark side of the moon and he ecclesiasties at the same time and just read.
4:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_06]: See what happens.
4:11
[SPEAKER_04]: pretty much did So yeah, and we talked about death this this last lords day and man.
4:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I had to I had to read chapter nine in the text Okay, Ben look Ben one of our pastors looks over at me.
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[SPEAKER_04]: He says I was Jackie goes is this first time you read since you graduated from PLI I'm like, oh no
4:31
[SPEAKER_04]: I have read several times.
4:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I said, this book is my life right now, Ben, and he goes, yeah, I don't, I don't disagree with that.
4:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and everybody's like, and he goes, and then he looks at the congregation, he goes, you probably all didn't get that, but you'll probably understand sooner rather than later.
4:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, exactly.
4:49
[SPEAKER_04]: No, but it was a really good sermon, really tight in well, which is a lot of stuff.
4:57
[SPEAKER_04]: And then on top of it as well too,
5:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I've been serving the Lord's supper for the last couple weeks.
5:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Pretty continuous.
5:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, there's just been good.
5:09
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, still going through this layoff stuff and there's just like very kind people that will just like randomly give us like a gift card to like safeway.
5:19
[SPEAKER_04]: yeah or little things here and there.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So that's been very encouraging.
5:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's awesome.
5:26
[SPEAKER_04]: We are not in the most dire of financial situations right now, but it's just it's always weighing on us and I think that hopefully something sooner rather than later will come up.
5:40
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll talk about it in
5:43
[SPEAKER_04]: that's been uh but no it's been very encouraging this last couple lords days and uh good yeah just spend a lot of time with my son and yeah he's by the way over here watching Fantasia so there you go there you go
5:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you start to hear Orchistrad, Orchistrad, orchistrad, it's just him.
6:03
[SPEAKER_06]: I love it.
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[SPEAKER_06]: I love it.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Well, Jack, it's we got some stuff to get to today, but as always, it's time to get into our favorite segment of the podcast that don't forget to eat your instant grams.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And those of the time you've all been waiting for, there are a home-and-dairy podcast presents.
6:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't forget to eat your instant grams.
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[SPEAKER_03]: With your host, Josh Loftus, our Jack Mary, and remember kids.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not heresy if you believe it hard enough.
6:36
[SPEAKER_06]: This is, don't forget to eat your instant grams.
6:38
[SPEAKER_06]: And remember kids, it's not heresy if you believe it hard enough.
6:41
[SPEAKER_06]: That's how it works.
6:43
[SPEAKER_06]: My friends, we have some excellent ones for you today.
6:47
[SPEAKER_06]: Jack, I've got a couple of...
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[SPEAKER_06]: So I've got I've got a couple humdingers as as as they say we're going to we're going to start today off with a pastor who is really doing his best to reach the younger generation.
7:05
[SPEAKER_06]: All right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Turn to your Bible of the Proverbs.
7:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no, not this guy.
7:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Six, seven.
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[SPEAKER_04]: No.
7:14
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
7:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, don't do this.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Kevin, I think his name's Kevin.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I see you all over there.
7:21
[SPEAKER_01]: That's for you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: My young crowd.
7:26
[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
7:27
[SPEAKER_06]: Before we finish it, can we talk about his outfit for a second?
7:32
[SPEAKER_06]: He's got, so we've got a like brown, like a brown, like sway, like leather jacket.
7:40
[SPEAKER_04]: with a leopard and a little leopard and a little leopard under me you know this guy he did with Jeffrey Dommer glasses this guy actually preached was a pastor in Tacoma at one of the what's he really churches yeah so he looks I know he looks like a cereal up from the flow up oh yeah he is yeah he probably is I do that's about this
8:05
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have no clue what that was about, that means you're over 30 for sure.
8:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Just look now, you're 12.
8:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Talk to some young box after church.
8:18
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't try this guy.
8:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Six.
8:20
[SPEAKER_06]: Six.
8:20
[SPEAKER_06]: Seven.
8:21
[SPEAKER_06]: It's just a meme, right?
8:23
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_06]: I had some of our young folks explain it to me because obviously it's everywhere and I was confused.
8:29
[SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, pastors don't do this.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Please, as tempting as it might be to work in, please don't control, like, not just cultural movements, like, in general, but like young people, like, like, meme culture.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Don't just don't do it.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Just don't do it never.
8:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't look like don't look like a clone of Jeff Goldblum from Jeff Park.
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[SPEAKER_04]: He does.
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[SPEAKER_04]: He looks like a character.
8:56
[SPEAKER_06]: The shirt needs to be buttoned down a little farther, but yeah, definitely he's definitely hitting those vibes for sure.
9:02
[SPEAKER_06]: All right, Jack.
9:02
[SPEAKER_06]: One one more here.
9:04
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm just going to play this.
9:05
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to play this without comment because I really don't want to be mean.
9:11
[SPEAKER_06]: but I came across this and I saw it so you need to see it too.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I will say that God does not change, but His methods and the way He wants to be made known and how He manifests Himself changes constantly with every generation.
9:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when we know what He is doing in the earth, then we can do what Jesus said.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He said, I only do the things that I see my father do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and that I only say the things that I hear my father say.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It cannot do all the things that you know that God wants you to do without saying no to false responsibilities.
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[SPEAKER_06]: She said she should have said no to plastic surgery.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, why is a, why is a woman trying to cosplay as a cat, trying to tell me about spiritual things right now.
9:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Somebody explain this.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry people.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I cannot help it.
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[SPEAKER_04]: That woman is trying to look like a cat for sure.
10:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I
10:12
[SPEAKER_06]: That's so lonely, it's left my head.
10:17
[SPEAKER_06]: Those, those, yeah, again, don't want to be too mean, but good gracious, like I, I find it very difficult to take like realistic spiritual advice from someone.
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[SPEAKER_06]: who looks like leprechaun who has been injected like a break-up in their face oh my goodness gracious anyway well that that is don't forget to eat your instant grams and as always if you want to go see those head on over to you too if you want to submit your own submissions for this segment make sure to send them on over to us either on Instagram or Twitter send us a DM
10:56
[SPEAKER_06]: And we can make that happen.
11:00
[SPEAKER_06]: We can get that going.
11:01
[SPEAKER_06]: So we have got a fun topic today.
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[SPEAKER_06]: What's interesting about this topic in Jack's off camera.
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[SPEAKER_06]: He's doing something, but I'm just going to keep rolling here.
11:11
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm here.
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[SPEAKER_06]: He's such a waitin'.
11:14
[SPEAKER_04]: We're doing a lot of work.
11:15
[SPEAKER_06]: We're doing a lot of work, right?
11:17
[SPEAKER_06]: What's really cool about today's topic is that I have had
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[SPEAKER_06]: two separate conversations about this topic in the last couple weeks.
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[SPEAKER_06]: One of them was with a young guy in our church who came up and randomly asked about this.
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[SPEAKER_06]: The exact same question.
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[SPEAKER_06]: And then we have a listener who submitted it through Patreon this question.
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[SPEAKER_06]: So I don't know what's in the water or what's in the air right now, but it's cool.
11:49
[SPEAKER_06]: it's cool and I'm I'm I'm I'm excited for it.
11:52
[SPEAKER_06]: So basically the the question is this if it's it's talking about the topic specifically of confessing sins.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Now this will be very apropos because we just kind of came out of reformation month and obviously the the sacrament of confession is a very big thing within the Roman Catholic doctrine and it's something that we would differ with them in our understanding and practice of it has Protestants.
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[SPEAKER_06]: But does that mean
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[SPEAKER_06]: that the practice of confessing one's sins, specifically to one another, is a bad or unbiblical thing to do.
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[SPEAKER_06]: And I think there are two pitfalls on either side of this, right?
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[SPEAKER_06]: That we're obviously going to talk about.
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[SPEAKER_06]: I think you can put too much emphasis
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[SPEAKER_06]: that ends up creating, I would say, rising that practice to a level that it's not supposed to be risen to, and we're going to talk about that, or you go too far on the other side, and obviously wanting to avoid any type of confusion in terms of why we confess our sins, who ultimately are we confessing them to, who do we go through
13:13
[SPEAKER_06]: for forgiveness, how are those sins absolved?
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[SPEAKER_06]: All of those questions.
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[SPEAKER_06]: We avoid almost this practice of confessing to one another, because it feels sacramental, it feels Roman Catholic, right?
13:30
[SPEAKER_06]: And I think those are the two extremes.
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[SPEAKER_06]: But I think what's important to say from the outset, and then I'll throw it over to Jack, is.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Confessing since to one another is a biblical practice.
13:45
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and I don't think that it is simply a practice that should occur in the specific instance of when you have sinned against another person right go in confess your sin and ask her for forgiveness Obviously that's biblical to do right we see that modeled in Matthew 18
14:08
[SPEAKER_06]: that process of reconciliation, how that happens on an interpersonal level.
14:14
[SPEAKER_06]: But I think, and obviously, the obvious scripture is James chapter five specifically in verse 16, where I'm going to get there, where it says, therefore confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed, the prayer of a righteous
14:39
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't think that this specific verse is talking about specifically when you have sin against another person and go to that specific person and confess that sins, right?
14:56
[SPEAKER_06]: Verse 15, right, to give some context and the prayer of faith will save one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
15:09
[SPEAKER_06]: that you may be healed.
15:10
[SPEAKER_06]: I think what this is talking about, Jack, and then I'll throw it over to you, is not so much an interpersonal conflict being resolved.
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[SPEAKER_06]: rather what it means and looks like to live out Christian community with one another in a healthy way.
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[SPEAKER_06]: You're a thought.
15:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, first, I mean, let's address the elephant around the room that is the Roman Catholic Church.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Um, yes, the big, papest elephant.
15:36
[SPEAKER_04]: So, okay, just to just to clarify here,
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[SPEAKER_04]: Roman Catholics believe that confession of sin is a sacrament, yes.
15:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So you're dealing with seven sacraments in the Roman Catholic Church versus in Protestantism, mostly confessional Protestantism, you only have two.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you always press your enemy through prayer in there,
15:58
[SPEAKER_06]: I knew that.
16:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
16:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
16:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
16:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
16:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Why the reformation happened the way it did?
16:28
[SPEAKER_04]: It's because the church was going buck wild.
16:32
[SPEAKER_04]: The church was instituting a lot of things.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, not only that, but like the whole way in which the Roman Catholic Church is set up, you have to confess to a priest.
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[SPEAKER_04]: You cannot just confess to another believer.
16:45
[SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't work like that.
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[SPEAKER_04]: That's not there's a
16:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say Roman Catholics would probably use some sort of formulation of like John 20 where Jesus is giving the apostles authority to forgive sins.
17:02
[SPEAKER_04]: If so, facto priests, the new priesthood.
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[SPEAKER_04]: is the Roman Catholic Church priesthood.
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[SPEAKER_04]: We, we Protestants would say, no, the priesthood is the priesthood of all believers.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It is not just limited to the apostles.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So you first have to identify those things that you're dealing with.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And then the fact that in the Reformation, really, I think Luther and Lutheranism starts to
17:33
[SPEAKER_04]: say that confession you can have both private confession or you can go and confess to a pastor.
17:39
[SPEAKER_04]: There's no, there's no like that's not wrong to do, but yet again, and that's honestly like confess.
17:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So here's something that I feel deeply about.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Is that in our culture, we do not like to submit.
17:55
[SPEAKER_04]: no.
17:56
[SPEAKER_04]: We do not like to submit to our church elders.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And so if it was up to us, we're not going to tell them anything.
18:05
[SPEAKER_06]: No.
18:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
18:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's a problem.
18:08
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's a fine line, there's a fine line between submission to your local church elders and letting them know what's going on in your life
18:24
[SPEAKER_04]: We can, I can work that out within the community of believers that I'm in within my local church too, right like if there is if there is some stuff going on like the level of sin isn't always to the point where your pastors need to be involved.
18:39
[SPEAKER_04]: A adultery.
18:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure absolutely.
18:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
18:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, a lot of different.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I would say I would say there's certain categories of sins that your pastors need to come in there and help you out with.
18:51
[SPEAKER_04]: But if it's true.
18:53
[SPEAKER_04]: you know, I lost my temper one day at my coworker.
18:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, okay, that's, that's nice that you're telling your pastors that, but like, sure, I think like they are, there is certain fish that they are frying, that is going to be a little bit bigger than that some days.
19:12
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, you kind of have to quantify this to a certain degree.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm not saying that pat, you like,
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[SPEAKER_04]: What I am saying is that I think we need to re-haul how we look at
19:28
[SPEAKER_04]: ways in which we are just not submitting to our local church and some of it can be and some of it can be like the confession of major sins to your pastors and then other times it can be just these certain other smaller things that you're dealing with.
19:46
[SPEAKER_04]: So right and my son is using me as a jungle gym right now.
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[SPEAKER_06]: He's wanted to be part of the program.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Do you have any sins to confess to you?
19:54
[SPEAKER_06]: No.
19:54
[SPEAKER_06]: Um, but yeah, no, no, no, that is, that is a very, I think that's a good place to start because you're exactly right that we in, it's, it's specifically an American culture, right?
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[SPEAKER_06]: We don't like to submit.
20:06
[SPEAKER_06]: We don't like authority.
20:07
[SPEAKER_06]: We don't like accountability.
20:09
[SPEAKER_06]: And the local church, if it's functioning correctly, brings all of those things, right?
20:15
[SPEAKER_06]: So when we're talking about confessing our sins to one another,
20:20
[SPEAKER_06]: That requires that we have an understanding, a correct understanding.
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[SPEAKER_06]: I think of what the local church is supposed to look like when it comes to things like community accountability.
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[SPEAKER_06]: All of those things that create a healthy community within a local church.
20:45
[SPEAKER_06]: I think it's, it, it grates against our natural desires and inclinations to have a life that is open when it comes to the things that we struggle with and obviously confessing those things to one another.
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[SPEAKER_06]: So in that light, I think it's a very good and biblical practice to do because I don't think our natural
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[SPEAKER_06]: Like our natural state, our flesh has the desire to be known.
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[SPEAKER_06]: It has the desire to bring those things in darkness and bring them into light.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Right?
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[SPEAKER_06]: Galatians chapter six, verse starting in verse one right the beginning.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Right?
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[SPEAKER_06]: So his brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in this spirit of gentleness.
21:30
[SPEAKER_06]: Keep watching yourself, less you to be tempted.
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[SPEAKER_06]: Bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ, right?
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[SPEAKER_06]: when he is nothing, he deceives himself, but let each one test his own work so that the reason to boast in himself alone will not be there, right?
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[SPEAKER_06]: So, we see and scripture how this Christian life is supposed to be, Armin, Arm, bearing one another's burdens, encouraging one another, being in community with one another.
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[SPEAKER_06]: And I do believe that there is a place in the Christian life.
22:07
[SPEAKER_06]: whether it be, you know, peer to beer, or peer to pastor, you know, whatever those relationships are closest, where we are sharing with each other, the things that we are struggling with.
22:21
[SPEAKER_06]: confessing our sins to one another, so that that other individual, again, not like a priest in that they are extending forgiveness for sins that we didn't even commit against them, right?
22:39
[SPEAKER_06]: But they're reminding us, they are proclaiming to us the gospel and reminding us of the forgiveness that we have in Christ and the assurance that we should have in our salvation because of Christ.
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[SPEAKER_06]: that is a biblical way to do it in a biblical understanding of what it looks like to confess our sins to one another.
22:59
[SPEAKER_06]: Now unfortunately because we as
23:05
[SPEAKER_06]: individuals love finding ways to take credit for things.
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[SPEAKER_06]: We have to be very careful that we do not sacramentalize if I could be create a word.
23:18
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it ain't even ankl principle for ourselves.
23:23
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
23:23
[SPEAKER_06]: And I think this is the other the other side of the ditch, Jack, is where people will take this and they will raise this, I think good and
23:35
[SPEAKER_06]: and put weight on it that it was never supposed to bear, right?
23:39
[SPEAKER_06]: And then they will then in their mind, in their practice, in their function, although they might not say it out loud, practically emotionally and spiritually, they are putting the weight of, of, of, of, of
23:59
[SPEAKER_06]: on the work of Christ that pushed it.
24:02
[SPEAKER_06]: And I think that's where we start getting in trouble.
24:05
[SPEAKER_06]: These people will have this mentality will be like, dude, I haven't confessed to my sins to, you know, my, you know, you know, my pastor in a long time, dude, I'm just feeling the weight.
24:14
[SPEAKER_06]: That's a problem.
24:16
[SPEAKER_06]: Your pastor is not Jesus.
24:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
24:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Your pastor is not a absolveer.
24:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Your pastor is not your pastor is not the mediator between God and man.
24:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
24:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Jesus is the mediator between God and man.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Your pastor is a undershepard that is helping you on this Christian life, but your pastor does not have
24:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And the sense, the power to take on your sins and give you absolution, like Jesus is the only one that can do that.
24:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Your pastor can remind you of those things.
24:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I think there's a big thing between the difference between your pastor reminding you that forgiveness is found in Jesus and only Jesus provides that to you.
25:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's a big difference between confession that way and also just confession straight to that mean personal confession like cry out to God and say that I have sent and talk to him this way versus you don't
25:21
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think this is also, too, just the blowback from being in what Protestants have fought against is like the Roman Catholic Church drilled it in so much that we need a priest in order to have basically are slate cleaned off and go back into the state of grace.
25:42
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, no, Jesus is done that for us.
25:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Jesus has done that for us.
25:47
[SPEAKER_04]: He is doing that for us.
25:48
[SPEAKER_04]: He will do that for us.
25:50
[SPEAKER_04]: We do not need another Magisterium to fix this.
25:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Jesus is good all on his own.
26:02
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
26:03
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
26:04
[SPEAKER_06]: The understanding of personal confession between brothers and sisters and Christ, we need to understand it as it's for accountability, not Absolution.
26:13
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
26:13
[SPEAKER_06]: And then we start putting the weight of Absolution on it is when it's going beyond what it's
26:19
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and here's the thing.
26:20
[SPEAKER_06]: We're really good at doing that.
26:22
[SPEAKER_06]: We're really good at taking things and
26:26
[SPEAKER_06]: attributing emotional and spiritual connections to them.
26:30
[SPEAKER_06]: We see this happening, you know, look, let me look at Israel in the desert, they wanted, they wanted a way to be able to see and worship God tangibly.
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[SPEAKER_06]: So they made a calf, they melted a little gold down, and here's, here's this, here's this God now, right?
26:46
[SPEAKER_06]: We do the same thing, whether it be, you know, for for some
26:53
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, it just helps me focus my prayers better when I get when I can see something, right?
26:57
[SPEAKER_06]: This is why Jack and I aren't fans of the chosen because we see people doing this, you know, it just makes the Bible come alive, right?
27:05
[SPEAKER_06]: That's, that's not what it's for and that's actually an healthy, that's bad for you, right?
27:10
[SPEAKER_06]: We can do that with confession as well.
27:11
[SPEAKER_06]: It's like, well, I just, I just don't feel, I just don't feel like I've, I've,
27:15
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, I've got it out of my system unless I've, I've, I've verbally confessed it to, you know, this person or this person.
27:22
[SPEAKER_06]: I just, you know, I haven't, I haven't been able to confess my sins to this, this person for a while.
27:27
[SPEAKER_06]: I just, I'm really feeling the weight of it.
27:29
[SPEAKER_06]: That's a weight that should be lifted.
27:33
[SPEAKER_06]: Moments after the sin has been committed by Christ, sure.
27:39
[SPEAKER_06]: I get, and you're, you're, you're, you're putting too much emphasis on it.
27:43
[SPEAKER_06]: It's now turning into a sacrament in your head and in your practice, instead of the accountability that it's supposed to be, right, where we can proclaim the gospel to one another,
27:59
[SPEAKER_06]: as the thing that gives you relief, gives you peace, gives you assurance, and now we've gone too far.
28:08
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, because now the practice is taken on something that it's not supposed to be taken on, and you're actually trusting in that in the exact same way that the Roman Catholic stressed in their relics and their own understanding of confession.
28:20
[SPEAKER_06]: And we can't do that, right?
28:23
[SPEAKER_06]: That's not what it's for.
28:24
[SPEAKER_06]: You've elevated it to a position
28:28
[SPEAKER_06]: of of an unbiblical status at that point.
28:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
28:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
28:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
28:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, here, like I said, too, like, there, there is nothing wrong with you confessing your sin if you've committed sin against your brother.
28:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, of course.
28:43
[SPEAKER_04]: But then there's also nothing wrong to in confessing
28:48
[SPEAKER_04]: something that's eating away at you that you know you should you should confess it to somebody by through the through the prompting of and the nudging of the power of the Holy Spirit too.
28:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, absolutely.
28:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but yet like using that person as the mediator in order to do it.
29:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, that's great way to put it.
29:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's all that's that's not the healthy way to go about this.
29:13
[SPEAKER_04]: No, and that's and that's not what I uh
29:16
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think even scripture, I mean, we know scripture is not saying that either.
29:20
[SPEAKER_04]: We know that there is one mediator between God and man that is the Lord Jesus Christ.
29:27
[SPEAKER_04]: There is he is the one who forgive sins.
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[SPEAKER_04]: We can forgive sins as well, too, in this sense that if somebody sins against us, we can forgive them as well.
29:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And the Lord gives us that ability only because
29:39
[SPEAKER_04]: of the gospel to be quite honest like I can only forgive my toddler son when he smacks me in the face at times because the Lord has given me an understanding of okay he doesn't know what he's doing right so there's there's there's things like that
29:59
[SPEAKER_04]: versus you are now the mediator between God and man.
30:05
[SPEAKER_04]: And that you don't have the power, nor the understanding, nor even the ability to even take that mantle on.
30:13
[SPEAKER_04]: So I would just...
30:15
[SPEAKER_04]: remember that.
30:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Remember what the Bible is telling us and the Bible is telling us that humanity will always try to do that.
30:24
[SPEAKER_04]: And Jesus will come to humanity and say, hey, you need to stop doing that.
30:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I am the one who is the only qualified one to do that.
30:33
[SPEAKER_04]: And then that's where we can have the light bulb moment and say, oh, yeah, that's right.
30:39
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I get the practice of how it is nice to have a person to confess to because you need to get off your chest.
30:49
[SPEAKER_04]: but that person should not bear the weight of abs of trying to give you absolution or forgiveness.
30:59
[SPEAKER_04]: They don't even have the power to do that.
31:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Jesus has the power to do that and he has already done that if you're a believer.
31:11
[SPEAKER_07]: I told you I was gonna do it.
31:20
[SPEAKER_05]: I was waiting for the opportunity moment.
31:24
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like Jack's preaching right now Dude, I'm gonna wait until he's done and I'm gonna hit him with the oil and the fuck was
31:33
[SPEAKER_05]: I love it.
31:35
[SPEAKER_05]: Jack, that is a fantastic place to end this episode, man.
31:40
[SPEAKER_06]: I cannot think of a better way to wrap it up.
31:43
[SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.
31:43
[SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.
31:44
[SPEAKER_06]: Gospel center.
31:45
[SPEAKER_06]: Jesus, it's ultimately true through right there.
31:47
[SPEAKER_06]: Jack, my friend, once you get this out of your body.
31:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, if you appreciate Josh and I focus on the local church, and if you want to submit a question to us and we take time like in an episode like this to go through it in the certain ways.
32:02
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32:32
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32:38
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33:01
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