Latest / Gospel Tech with Nathan Sutherland / Talking About P*rn with Our Daughters, an Interview with Kristen Jenson - Part 1

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Talking About P*rn with Our Daughters, an Interview with Kristen Jenson - Part 1 · Gospel Tech with Nathan Sutherland

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Purposely your life, God's Purpose.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Listen at purposely dot com. Hey everybody, we are in
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: for a treat today. We've got a conversation with Kristin
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Jensen of Protect Young Guys and I'm excited for this
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: conversation on a personal level because this has affected my
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: own family and life as a ministry. I'm excited to
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  Speaker 2: tell you about these resources because they are very tangible,
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: very available resources. It is a two part conversation, so
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: we'll cover kind of the introductory to introduction to the book,
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: and then we'll take a break right in the middle.
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  Speaker 2: I'm excited to bring this hope focused conversation about a
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: difficult subject, good Pictures and Bad Pictures, And with no
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: further ado, we'll jump right in enjoy the conversation. Welcome
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: to the Gospel Tech Podcast. My name is Nathan Sutherland
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  Speaker 2: and this podcast is dedicated to helping families love God
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  Speaker 2: and use tech. Today we are joined by Kristen Jensen,
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  Speaker 2: the founder of Defend Young Minds and the author of
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  Speaker 2: the number one best selling book Good Pictures, Bad Pictures.
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  Speaker 2: We've talked about this a lot, as well as Good Pictures,
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  Speaker 2: Bad Pictures Junior and her newest title Good Pictures, Bad
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  Speaker 2: Pictures Guide for Girls. It just came out this last March.
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  Speaker 2: So Christin, thank you for being here.
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  Speaker 1: It is so great. Great to be with you, Nathan.
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  Speaker 1: I love talking about how we can use technology for
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  Speaker 1: good and keep kids safe from.
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  Speaker 2: It, and I'm excited for this conversation. First, thank you
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  Speaker 2: for making these resources. As I mentioned just in that
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  Speaker 2: brief intro, your resources are used, yes, around the world.
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  Speaker 2: They're helping defend children from sexual exploitation and equipping parents
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  Speaker 2: and caregivers to have the hard conversations about unsafe for
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  Speaker 2: safe content online. And I've got three kids of my own, twelve, ten,
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  Speaker 2: and seven, and all of them have been through one
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  Speaker 2: of these books, either the Good Pictures, Bad Pictures or
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  Speaker 2: the junior version, and they are empowering. They equip us
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  Speaker 2: to say good words to our kids, to a parent
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  Speaker 2: out of hope fear. So thank you for these resources.
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  Speaker 2: First off. Second off, Yeah, Second off, I'm excited for
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  Speaker 2: our audience to hear from you personally, because, for context,
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  Speaker 2: if you're new to this podcast and you haven't heard this,
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  Speaker 2: this book really does three things. It gives a helpful
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  Speaker 2: description of pornography that isn't traumatic to your kids. Second,
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  Speaker 2: it's a collaborative story. It's not a lecture, so you're
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  Speaker 2: not just going to be like, don't do bad stuff.
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  Speaker 2: And third, it gives a clear action plan. So kristin
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  Speaker 2: the first book it's say no, look away, and in
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  Speaker 2: the most recent guide specifically name it that's porn and
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  Speaker 2: then tell a caring adult and listeners. What's awesome about
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  Speaker 2: this is that's empowering you to do what you want
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  Speaker 2: to do, which is parent. Well, Kristin, if I were
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  Speaker 2: to ignore all that context and I didn't just tell
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  Speaker 2: our audience and someone goes, hey, like I'm scared my
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  Speaker 2: kid wants a smartphone with my kids going to school,
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  Speaker 2: they're writing of us like how do I do it?
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  Speaker 2: What should I tell a parent about this book? What's
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  Speaker 2: the core purpose of this book for someone hearing about
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  Speaker 2: it for the first time.
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  Speaker 1: Well, first of all, it's open that conversation and make
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  Speaker 1: it safe for a child to come to a parent
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  Speaker 1: and say this is what I saw. It also gives
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  Speaker 1: kids a vocabulary to you, so whether they say it's
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  Speaker 1: a bad picture, whether they say it's pornography, that is
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  Speaker 1: it normalizes that conversation, right, because unfortunately access to pornography
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  Speaker 1: is a normal experience for most children, and.
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  Speaker 2: That is sad.
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  Speaker 1: Shouldn't be that way. Wish it weren't. But what are
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  Speaker 1: we going to do until we can, you know, put
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  Speaker 1: up those iron gates on the Internet and keep kids
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  Speaker 1: from it. We have to give kids an internal filter
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  Speaker 1: so they know how and why to reject it. So
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  Speaker 1: we've got you mentioned the description, so like a definition,
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  Speaker 1: here's what it is, but a very simple, age appropriate
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  Speaker 1: definition that just lets them recognize it and then giving
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  Speaker 1: them reasons to reject it. Not just like you said,
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  Speaker 1: it's bad, don't look, you know, we need to help
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  Speaker 1: them understand how it can be bad for them, bad
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  Speaker 1: for their brain, and bad for the way they see
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  Speaker 1: other people, which in my New Girl's book we talk
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  Speaker 1: a lot about objectification and we can get more into
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  Speaker 1: that later. But and then to give them an action plan, right,
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  Speaker 1: so they know exactly what to do when they see pornography,
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  Speaker 1: and that cannot only be helpful for them not to
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  Speaker 1: get pulled into it, but also not to get pulled
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  Speaker 1: into a situation that is like a predator situation, because
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  Speaker 1: predators do use pornography to groom children. So it can
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  Speaker 1: keep kids safe in so many ways. So a definition,
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  Speaker 1: a warning, and a plan and helps parents comfortably open
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  Speaker 1: that conversation and empower their children. And it's not a
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  Speaker 1: one and done. You got to keep up this conversation.
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  Speaker 1: But to open up that conversation so kid knows what
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  Speaker 1: to do when they're faced with it is really the
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  Speaker 1: main object of that book, and I think it can
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  Speaker 1: be very successful for parents in opening up that conversation.
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  Speaker 2: And well, let's jump on that, because the number one
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  Speaker 2: pushback I get whenever we have this conversation is, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: but like, why should I have this conversation with my kids?
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  Speaker 2: Because the first extension from that is if I bring
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  Speaker 2: it up, aren't they just going to get curious and
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  Speaker 2: go find it now?
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  Speaker 1: More?
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  Speaker 2: Shouldn't I just say nothing? Delayed, delayed, delay as long
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  Speaker 2: as possible in terms of having the conversation so that
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  Speaker 2: I don't spark something negative. Why should parents address the
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  Speaker 2: subject with their young children?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is such a good question, and I totally
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  Speaker 1: understand it as a mother. You know, I don't know,
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  Speaker 1: I feel guilty about everything my kids, you know, like,
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  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I wasn't good enough and I did this.
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  Speaker 1: So so parents can feel very guilty about things. But
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  Speaker 1: this is the thing what you just described about delaying
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  Speaker 1: the conversation. That's what we've been doing for decades, and
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  Speaker 1: guess what, it's not working, all right. So if we
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  Speaker 1: keep trying to do the same thing and it's not
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  Speaker 1: working because kids are getting exposed, they don't know what
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  Speaker 1: to say about it, they don't know who to talk to.
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  Speaker 1: They get pulled in out of curiosity. They have no
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  Speaker 1: defenses because we have not talked to them about it.
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  Speaker 1: And I've met a lot of people that will say, well,
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  Speaker 1: I'm sure my child would come and talk to me.
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  Speaker 1: If they say it's a sopper audity, they would come
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  Speaker 1: right like. That is not true. I have not There's
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  Speaker 1: very few kids that will do that, and mostly they'll
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  Speaker 1: do that if they're is a warm and safe conversation
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  Speaker 1: that's been started. For example, as an example, there's a
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  Speaker 1: mom who brought her daughters over for a playdate at
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  Speaker 1: a friend's house in When she came to pick them up,
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  Speaker 1: she saw them in the front yard and the little
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  Speaker 1: girl the friend was showing her daughter something with the smartphone.
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  Speaker 1: When they got in the car, the mom said, what
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  Speaker 1: was she showing you on her phone? And the little
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  Speaker 1: girls kind of looked at each other and they said,
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  Speaker 1: you know, my little pony video and or some little
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  Speaker 1: video like that, you know, the kids like. But then
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  Speaker 1: she read good pictures bad pictures to her girls a
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  Speaker 1: few months later, and they said, Mom, what she showed
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  Speaker 1: us that day. That wasn't my little pony video. That
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  Speaker 1: was pornography. We saw she showed us pornography. And the
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  Speaker 1: mother realize, she said, my kids lied to me, not
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  Speaker 1: because they're bad kids, but because they did not have
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  Speaker 1: the vocabulary. They had no idea how to describe this.
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  Speaker 1: They did not know what to do with it. And
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  Speaker 1: so it's so important that we give our kids the
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  Speaker 1: vocabulary in a non kind of scary way just and
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  Speaker 1: then in a comfortable way, kind of a scientific approach
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  Speaker 1: is kind of how I do it. And you know,
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  Speaker 1: here's like you're taking good care. You want to take
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  Speaker 1: good care of your body, you also want to take
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  Speaker 1: good care of your brain, and not only you know
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  Speaker 1: and what goes into it, right, what you see, what
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  Speaker 1: you hear, what you experience. So yeah, so that's kind
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  Speaker 1: of where we're that's I believe when going back to
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  Speaker 1: your original question about oh my gosh, I'm so scary.
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  Speaker 1: I just want to make one more point, and that
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  Speaker 1: is we all want our children to be innocent, right,
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  Speaker 1: I hear this, but I'll rob my child of their innocence.
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  Speaker 1: You will not. First of all, the world out there
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  Speaker 1: is sending in so many sexualized cues. There's so many
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  Speaker 1: kids with porn on phones in elementary school, on school buses,
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  Speaker 1: Like every school bus in America is a triple X
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  Speaker 1: theater because kids have these phones and unprotected phones. So
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  Speaker 1: I don't think you can do more to your child
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  Speaker 1: and make them curious than the world is doing for them.
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  Speaker 1: So it's much better to arm them. And I know
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  Speaker 1: I'm kind of going on here, but like Bason, let
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  Speaker 1: me tell you one more.
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  Speaker 2: Story please, that'd be great, okay. Parents, As we strive
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  Speaker 2: to raise kids who love that and use tech, it's
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: intimidating to look at this next stage of life and
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  Speaker 2: think about what academics may look like for them. When
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: you're thinking about college, considered George Fox University for your
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: children because of three things. First, it's going to give
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: you a more intimate known environment where they have a
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: focus on being known personally, academically, and spiritually. Your child
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  Speaker 2: will grow in their faith. Ninety three percent of undergrad
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  Speaker 2: students at George Fox last year through the twenty twenty
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  Speaker 2: five academic year said that being at George Fox has
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  Speaker 2: helped them grow in their relationship with Jesus. We also
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: want them to grow academically, which means being a part
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: of university with rigorous academic standards and opportunities to be engaged.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: They have a nationally recognized engineering, nursing, and education programs,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: as well as chances to study abroad here within the
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: US and then internationally and finally personally, to be part
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: of a vibrant campus atmosphere where you can play intramural
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: sports or part of their NCAA Division three athletic programs
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: with twenty three sports available. The goal here is to
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: go to a place that's going to support your not
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: try to make you support theirs. To have that goal
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: be to raise you up to be all God's called
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: you to be, and to truly equip your young person
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: with my in my case, my sons or my daughter
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: to love God and then from their love of God
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  Speaker 2: to go wherever God has called them, and that includes
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: being equipped with a degree that'll help them do that.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: To be missionally equipped to love and serve others, to
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: lead where God has planned the man to know the
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Gospel for themselves and be able to share it with others.
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  Speaker 2: So George Fox University is an amazing resource for our kids,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: for our community here in the Northwest, and for anyone
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: who's looking to raise up a young person who can
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: love God and from that love others.
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  Speaker 1: So there was a girl whose mom had read our
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  Speaker 1: Good Pictures Bad Pictures, and she was on a bus
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  Speaker 1: go into a field trip and next to her girlfriend
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  Speaker 1: was sitting next to her, and some kid come back
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  Speaker 1: showed them pornography. Yeah, the girl that had been warned
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  Speaker 1: turned away and she said, nope, you know, I like
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  Speaker 1: she recognized it. Yeah, this is what my mom told me,
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  Speaker 1: and I know it's not good for me. And so
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  Speaker 1: she turned away and she was able to overcome her curiosity,
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  Speaker 1: whereas her friend kept looking. So let me just ask
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  Speaker 1: you which of those two girls were safer from getting
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  Speaker 1: having a problem with pornography. It was the one that
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  Speaker 1: kept looking, that had not been worn, that was caught
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  Speaker 1: off guard. Yeah, don't let your kids get caught off guard.
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  Speaker 2: I love that. I love that phrase of just don't
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  Speaker 2: let them get caught off guard and be the loving
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  Speaker 2: one to introduce a hard subject. I so two stories
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  Speaker 2: from my end, just to build on what you're saying
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  Speaker 2: is exactly true in experience. We went to state basketball
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  Speaker 2: this year, so went with a group. Group stayed in
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  Speaker 2: a hotel, and one of the young men on the
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  Speaker 2: basketball team was with a group from our team. So
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  Speaker 2: there were five of them, probably playing pool. The group
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  Speaker 2: left and he was going to finish his shots. He
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  Speaker 2: was not in that room by himself for more than
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  Speaker 2: three minutes. Two strangers from a different team, both mid
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  Speaker 2: teenage not adults, walked up to him and said, hey,
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  Speaker 2: want to see something cool, and just flashed a phone
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  Speaker 2: to him with pornography on it. I mean we're talking
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  Speaker 2: one hundred eighty seconds max. This kid is left unattended,
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  Speaker 2: he is not looking for trouble, and a couple kids
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  Speaker 2: who thought this would be a funny joke walk up
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  Speaker 2: to him. In this kid's ten who is being shown
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  Speaker 2: this by two boys that were in the in the
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  Speaker 2: mid teens. He walks out, tells his parents, now they
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  Speaker 2: can't unsee that, right, But because there's relational connection, he's
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  Speaker 2: not left to his own shame or his own questions
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  Speaker 2: or his own future. Google searches and I tandem that
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  Speaker 2: story with my own personal story. I was raised by
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  Speaker 2: loving parents, I went to a Christian school. We had
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  Speaker 2: dial up internet. It took a lot of time to
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  Speaker 2: make a mistake online when I was growing up. And
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  Speaker 2: yet the shame that comes with that pairs with that
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  Speaker 2: curiosity and we are more likely like as an adult.
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  Speaker 2: The way I have found the way you overcome and
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  Speaker 2: unhealthy curiosity on the Internet is by talking about it
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  Speaker 2: with others and recognizing the damage this done. If there
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  Speaker 2: was no problem with pornography, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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  Speaker 2: But what we know is that introduced to young minds,
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  Speaker 2: the later we can introduce the actual images, not the topic,
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  Speaker 2: the images, and the earlier we can introduce what a
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  Speaker 2: healthy relationship, healthy view of oneself and of others looks like.
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  Speaker 2: The better the child does they get to see like, oh, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I don't like the way I act or others act,
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  Speaker 2: or the way this affects us. Like so both personally
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  Speaker 2: for my own life and then in we're talking in
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  Speaker 2: the last six months, that happened. This resource is powerful
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  Speaker 2: and you're right, we can't just avoid it. Which I
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  Speaker 2: so I shared one way you mentioned on buses. What
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  Speaker 2: are some other ways kids are exposed to this content
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  Speaker 2: without seeking it out? Because I saw stat that I
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  Speaker 2: love to share with parents that while seventy five percent
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  Speaker 2: of kids have seen pornography, fifty two percent didn't see
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  Speaker 2: it on purpose. They weren't looking for it. So you
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  Speaker 2: mentioned a friend with a phone and a bus. Are
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  Speaker 2: there other like top ways kids are exposed to this content?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah? In fact, every January we publish an article about
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  Speaker 1: you know, how porn is targeting children in all the
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  Speaker 1: different ways. So I think we had like thirteen ways
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  Speaker 1: you know portals to porn.
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  Speaker 2: We'll find an article and linked in the notes.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, but you know they can see it on music
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  Speaker 1: apps Spotify, Yeah, they can see it. I mean there
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  Speaker 1: are podcasts that are sexual podcasts that they can hear
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  Speaker 1: things that's basically porn. Libraries will allow a lot of
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  Speaker 1: libraries will allow. I think anywhere there's a screen, like
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  Speaker 1: I've heard now of kids getting into porn via a treadmill,
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  Speaker 1: the screen on a internet connected treadmill screen.
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  Speaker 2: We own a peloton and just this last week we
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  Speaker 2: realized that they push an update that gives it YouTube
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  Speaker 2: and YouTube because it's going through the Peloton doesn't follow
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  Speaker 2: our network rules because it shows up as the Peloton website.
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  Speaker 2: So that's a fun little extra bonus. Folks, heads up,
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  Speaker 2: your Peloton not meant for kids, and I get it,
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  Speaker 2: but also a headache for us as we try to
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: figure out new jiu jitsu to make safe things safe again. Yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: so that is wild.
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  Speaker 1: So there's a lot more that you can look at,
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  Speaker 1: but like anything with the screen and anything any app
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  Speaker 1: you were talking about how they can get onto YouTube,
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  Speaker 1: Like I've seen and this is even old, but like
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  Speaker 1: I saw a video of a kid I don't know,
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  Speaker 1: he was like maybe nine years old and he was
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: showing how maybe he was younger, showing his mom how
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  Speaker 1: he got from this little art app on an iPad
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: and there was no browser on that iPad. So they
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  Speaker 1: thought always totally safe. Just they're all these back doors
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  Speaker 1: and got onto YouTube. Yes, so that's why I always push, Yes,
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  Speaker 1: we've got to be on top of technology, but we
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  Speaker 1: have to instill and internal filter into our children's minds
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  Speaker 1: a disposition to reject pornography because they know why and
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  Speaker 1: they want to. Because you're never going to be able
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: to you know, put your thumb in the dike and
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: then you know, do all those you know, the whole
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: it's it's raining and and so they have to have
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  Speaker 1: what I call digital defense skills. They have to have
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  Speaker 1: those skills in order to keep them keep their mind
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  Speaker 1: free from it. And there they're kids that do they
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: can make that choice, but they're much more likely to
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  Speaker 1: make that choice if they're persuaded and if they're not
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: caught off guard and they're persuaded and given a plan.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. So then let's talk a little bit.
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  Speaker 2: Give let's give some nuggets store listeners right now. How
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: do you explain the difference between good pictures and bad
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  Speaker 2: pictures in a way that kids can understand?
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  Speaker 1: In the book, we start out, as you know, talking
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: about good pictures. I'll here are good pictures of our
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  Speaker 1: trip to the beach, or a cousin's wedding or something. Right,
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  Speaker 1: there's there's these good pictures out there and they're great.
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  Speaker 1: But there's the opposite. There are bad pictures and they're
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  Speaker 1: bad for you and they involve So the definition that
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  Speaker 1: I use in the books are something goes something like
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  Speaker 1: this bad pictures or pornography. The definition that I use
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  Speaker 1: in the books, it's very simple and age appropriate, is
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  Speaker 1: something like this, bad pictures show the private parts of
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: the body that we keep covered with a swimsuit. And
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: bad pictures could be cartoons, it can be pictures that
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: are made in your mind like through books, through reading.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: It can be a video, right, it can be a
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: still photo. So bad pictures show the private parts of
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: the body that we keep covered with a swim shirt.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: They focus on them and they can So that's kind
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: of a very simple one. But then in the older
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: the book for older kids, the books for older kids,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: we kind of go a little bit more in depth
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: of how it can make you feel, and how can
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: feel like the pull of a giant magnet, and you know,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: other things that can kind of do to to start
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: to make you look at other people differently. So in describing,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: you know, here good pictures and those are good and
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: we want to put those in our minds. We need
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: to limit the bad pictures because those things can actually
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: create you know, we talk about the release of dopamine
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: and you know, actually change the way your brain sees
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: people and basically changes the brain. We know now that
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: a pornography addiction just like any other, addiction, decreases the
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: gray mass the prefrontal cortex, and that's where your ability
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: to put your brakes on. It basically weakens your breaks
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: so that you want something, your brakes aren't strong enough
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: to keep you from going for it.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Right, Those are the terrifying, especially in a brain that
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: already has an underdeveloped breaking system.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we need to teach them.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Right, which is then the relationship acts as part of
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: this breaking. Right, like parents, we get to be part
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: of the breaks. You're not being mean, you're not being
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: old fashioned, You're being loving, and this book helps you
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: do that. And again we're talking about Good Pictures Bad
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Pictures Guide for Girls at this point because you did
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: add it, you mentioned it briefly, and I just want
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: to touch on it. You added that sometimes there's words
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: that make pictures in our brain that can be unsafe
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: and unhelpful, and I love, love, love that addition, because
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: it can be so hard to think of pornography as text,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: but it absolutely can, because at the end of the day,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: it's Okay, what is this doing in you and to you?
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: And it absolutely is a tandem with the image based
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: pornography that we're so used to hearing about and it
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: absolutely is making its way into books that are pitched
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: to young people that we want to be prepared for. Okay,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: so this was the end of part one. I hope
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: this conversation was encouraging. If you have any questions, you
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: can reach out Nathan at Gospel Tech dot net is
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: my email, or at love God Use Tech on Instagram, Facebook,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: and YouTube. You can reach out directly to Kristen. They're
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: on all the socials so you can find Defend Young
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Minds and you can pick up a copy of this book.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: I know the conversation isn't done, but if you're already
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: into it, like check it out, go to Amazon, you
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: can find good Pictures Bad Picture as a guide for girls,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: and then join us next week as we continue this
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: conversation about how we can defend young minds and how
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: we can raise kids who love God. News Tech Talk