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Inclusive Employment with Autism Mom Kelly Castro with Carson’s Cookie Dough · Inchstones with Sarah | Autism Advocacy & Caregiver Stories

• 0:01
  Speaker A: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the latest episode of the Inch Zones podcast. I have Kelly Castro here today. Like many women mothers, caregivers on the autism journey, it's when you leave the house and interact with your community that you find that you are not unique and that you are forging a path to better understand and support your child. And it always comes when you move past isolation and interacting, and today is no different. Kelly is with Carson's cookie dough. I actually got to meet her husband at a booth during an Autism Speaks walk. And again, it is so foundational to the work that I do and to what Kelly's going to share about her. That in getting out of your house, connecting with others, whether it's a support group, a walk, or just in your community, you will find that there are more stories in spades that are seeking to be told. It's why I love hosting the Inchtons podcast to get those stories out. Kelly, thank you so much for being here today, and I can't wait to delve into conversation.
• 1:01
  Speaker B: Hi, Sarah. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
• 1:04
  Speaker A: Of course. So let's jump right in. What is your personal journey into motherhood and your connection to the autism community?
• 1:12
  Speaker B: So I have three sons. My oldest son is 15 and my youngest son is 9. And I love being a mom. I've always wanted to be a mom. It's such a joy. You know, I've, I've truly enjoyed the, the experience as a whole. My youngest son was diagnosed with autism when he was 2. And, you know, the first few years were very fuzzy. It was confusing and we were, you know, it was just a blur of doctor's appointments, therapy appointments, and trying to find the right school. And as you said, anytime you step out of your house, especially when you're in all these different waiting rooms with other parents in similar situations, you know, you get to talking and, and I kept meeting parents of adult children on the spectrum and they kept saying the same thing. They didn't know each other, but they had the same verbiage. They said when you're he turns 21, he's going to fall off a cliff, so enjoy it now, you know, and, you know, I came to find out that meant, you know, all of our services we receive are through Carson School and that ends at 21. So, you know, all of Carson's progression, every new skill he earns, it's, it's hard fought. He worked really hard to get that skill. And, you know, it's very celebrated. And I found myself kind of celebrating it, but then thinking, oh, but he's gonna lose this one day. You know, like, I pictured him like walking up a mountain and then at 21, he's gonna start kind of falling down that same mountain. So that broke my heart.
• 2:35
  Speaker A: There's so much. Yeah. Like, I guess I just got the chills because I think one of the things I love talking about and you just gave the most beautiful example of this is there's so much nuance and complexity in this. Right. You can build something that is so meaningful and powerful and it's forces such a beautiful presence to the journey to, to. To being the best mother to a child with autism. And yet always in the background, always in the foreground, always sort of this, like floating around that present moment is the fear of what comes next. And it's, it's nestled so deeply and so ingrained in, in mothers like you and I, we can't divorce from that.
• 3:15
  Speaker B: It's always there in the middle of the night. It's there. Yeah.
• 3:18
  Speaker A: I mean, again, I'm glad we're both laughing because it. You can't laugh about it. You're like, yeah, no, it's literally always there. Like, like there's not, There is not a. There's not an exercise, there's not a work in mindfulness that I can do to get, to get rid of that. So. Okay, so. So because of all that, was that the, the launch point for Carson's cookie dough?
• 3:34
  Speaker B: Yes. I decided instead of. I was putting so much energy into worrying about it. Yes. You know, was 6 years old, 5, 6 at the time, and I thought, let me just put this energy into doing something instead of just worrying. Worrying, you know, it's exhausting and draining. So I decided to start a cookie company. Carson loved making cookie dough. During COVID we were doing all the home therapies, which is so, you know, again, laughable. Yeah, it's like, you know, it's doing OT and speech over zoom or with the expert on the other side of that computer working really hard to try and communicate to me how to communicate to him. And I found that cookie dough making, Making the cookie dough. You know, there's a ton of OT in that. There's a ton of speech receptive, expressive. So he really responded to that. And, you know, we just kind of fell in love with making cookie dough and we were giving it to all of our friends and, you know, it was a nice little thing to help get us through. So we decided. So we spent a solid year getting our recipes together. You Know, I have three boys, they love to eat. So it worked out, worked out great. Our neighbor has four kids, also love to eat, same ages, lots of cookie taste testers amongst us. So yeah, we just kind of perfected our recipes. I went about getting the licensing and you know, the certifications that I needed. Kind of figuring out what do I need to do to functionally make this happen. And I realized I would need a commercial kitchen. You know, I just kind of put the pieces into place. So almost three years ago we started Carson's Cookie Dough. We filed the paperwork and you know, I started where I was with what I had. I didn't have some huge investment. You know, I probably started with a few hundred dollars and I found a local community kitchen in Westwood Community center and I rented it by the hour. It very simple, very quaint and it was great. You know, I had no sense of urgency. Carson was so young. I wasn't worried, not quite yet. I mean, you know, I didn't have
• 5:28
  Speaker A: the sense of urgency, urgent urgency from a sense of, the passion was there, right. Like you want to make it be something purposeful and meaningful, but, but not on the side of like, we have to fix this tomorrow.
• 5:38
  Speaker B: Right? It didn't have to. I had, you know, at that time I was thinking I have like 15 years, you know, and so, you know, I got into the community kitchen. I started working with my first adult programs. Schools have adult programs, students 18 to 21. And part of the curriculum is they need to do a work based learning. That's where these individuals go out into, into the community and they get some job skills. You know, my first job, I was 14 years old and you know, you learn the intricacies, the nuances and a lot of these individuals never had that opportunity. So it's a great way to expose them to what jobs are available and kind of teach them the different parts of being at a real work site. So it's a great program and I loved it from day one. I was hooked. You know, I was curious because my, my son was six. There's a very big difference between a six year old child and a 20 year old adult. And I didn't know, I didn't know how it would go, you know, and I was, I was truly hooked from day one. I had a retired preschool special education teacher helping me and she said the same thing, like I've always worked with preschoolers. How's this going to go? They left that first day. I'll never forget. We looked at each other and we were like that was amazing. We were hooked. So then that sense of urgency went from zero to 60, that half hour, hour, whatever. You know, the students were there and you know, I started hearing from more schools that wanted to come out. You know, they were having trouble finding work sites, especially work sites where these individuals could really do the real work. So I, it wasn't my kitchen, it wasn't my space, so I couldn't welcome as many programs as I would have liked.
• 7:13
  Speaker A: So, so look at here. So you were, you were basically renting space from a commercial business by the hour, reaching out to the, the adult day programs of children of young adults that had, that had aged out of their schooling program, getting them to then come in like a community based interaction, learning and simply giving them the opportunity to learn how to make cookie dough.
• 7:37
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 7:37
  Speaker A: And at that point, was it Carson's cookie dough yet? I mean, was it a brand? Or were you just like, this is going to be something. Let's keep building from, from the, the different Lego pieces, both.
• 7:49
  Speaker B: I mean, it was Carson's cookie dough. The LLC was filed, the paperwork was filed. And that name, we had our logo and our little labels and you know, we, it was very much exactly as you said. I said, I'll start where I am and it'll just build on itself, you know. You know, you know, we love the idea of cookies because there, you know, there's a lot of jobs in cookies, in making cookie. Lot of steps, a lot of jobs. There's the labeling, there's the actual stuff to making the cookies. And you can make 20 at a time or you can make 2000. You know what I mean? Like there, it's a very flexible business. Very scalable. Yeah, it's very scalable. So we, you know, again, the initial plan was we'll just rent a couple hours a week at this great kitchen. They're wonderful. But after, you know, we worked at the first school, other schools started reaching out to me and I had to say no more often than I wanted to. So we were, we need our own space. So we, we did a Kickstarter May of 2024, and we raised $52,000 in 30 days. Yeah, it was incredible just seeing the support behind us from our community, our family and people we didn't even know. That was kind of the moment for me. I realized, you know, people, it's not that they don't want to hire adults with disabilities. They don't really know how. I think they don't know how to approach it. They don't know how to set them up for success. What are the steps involved? Well, what's. What do they not know? They don't know. You know what I mean? If that makes sense. So that was. That was a really. I mean, I loved it because we raised enough money to get us into our kitchen now. And I loved it because I saw. Saw firsthand the support, the rallying that
• 9:28
  Speaker A: I was gonna say that. You saw that. It's not about the dollar amount. It's more about, oh, my gosh, what I'm gonna provide resonates so deeply with people that may not sit in this exact position, but, man, do they want to support how they can.
• 9:45
  Speaker B: Exactly. These. Most of our supporters don't even have a child with autism. They're not directly connected with someone with autism, but they just wanted to help. They saw the value in it, and their enthusiasm was infectious, you know, and it was really. It was.
• 9:59
  Speaker A: What do you. So aside from sort of the challenge of getting your own space and getting your own commercial kitchen, what other challenges did you face in bringing this to life? Like, you said that probably that allowed for you to not have to say no to so many people that were reaching out. But what were the. What were those other hurdles that you faced? You know, what were some of those other challenges that you guys faced along the way?
• 10:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, listen, I feel like any entrepreneur, any founder, there's no easy road. There's just. No, it's just not a straight shot. It's winding. And, you know, there's so many decisions that have to be made. And you're right, I do have, at the same time, three boys, one of whom has a lot of needs. So it's. You know, and the work overlaps into the personal life all the time. This is probably our daily dinner conversation. And I'm really lucky that my family, they're really into it with me. They're. They're all in. And I'm really grateful that I get to do this and with their full support. So the challenges. I think my biggest challenge truly is. It's. I'm so passionate, and I fall in love with every student that comes in. In here, every adult worker that comes in here. I want to do everything right now. You know, I see that I have this. You know, like I said, the sense of urgency went from 0 to 60. It probably went from 0 to 160, because I just want this for them so bad, and I see what they're capable of. I see just, like, what a simple accommodation can do for them and their loyalty and Just their dedication to their work. I always thought, even at 14, work was something I needed to do. And they look at it like works and something I get to do here.
• 11:36
  Speaker A: Life purpose is not just for those of us that are typically developing. Right. There's such a depth of humanity behind every one of these children and young adults, and that that actually means even more that purpose is that important. I'll give you an example. There's a company that I interviewed there, they have a pit crew, and it's all of. All of special needs adults. And they put together the packaging for this product. And I was interviewing the manager, and he said, you know, what's interesting, and I'm sure you can. This will resonate with you, is that knowing that those individuals were given a purpose to actually benefited the typical workers in spades, because it validated that sense of purpose, that sense of, I get to do this, I get to wake up and be so much part of something that's bigger than me. And it doesn't matter if it's cookies. It doesn't matter for me, if it's, you know, putting together IEP plans for. For moms that are in the trenches. It doesn't matter if you're putting together a box of shipment items. Right. That sense of purpose is so important, and it's. It's incredible that, again, you are building this, but also having that reflection enough baked into the process.
• 12:42
  Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I truly believe these guys, they make any room, they're in a better room. You know what I mean? Like, we're open to the public. We have a storefront. And it's funny, we see some people, you know, customers walk in, and they just walk in because we're in the neighborhood. They don't understand what we are before they come in. And you just see them, once they realize they soften, they smile, you know, they just become, I feel like, their best version. And I just think, you know, the world would be a better place if we could just incorporate our whole community, including these members of our community, into every aspect of it, you know, including the workforce, because they truly do make it better.
• 13:21
  Speaker A: I see you, and I'm absorbing your story in a way that this doesn't feel like it's just Carson's cookie dough. This feels like you're holding up a mirror to others to do something similar. Because I think, you know, my children are around your son Carson's age. Milly 11. Mac is eight and a half. And I think that there's a lot of mirroring that Gets to happen. Like you said, we get to do this. The mirroring of getting to start something that can create such an impact, you know, what is your hope for Carson's cookie dough in the future?
• 13:50
  Speaker B: My hope is that we can have a true impact. I mean, my primary hope, my goal from day one has been to provide meaningful employment. We are up. You know, I've said I started with where I was with what I had. There's no grand $2 million investment. So we are working up and that's to creating a stable work environment, you know, where it's sustainable employment. We're utilizing our work based learning programs and our vocational training programs to get there. I'm learning a ton. And in the background, I'm working with distributors and other organizations to help us scale up our business so we have consistent influx of business that we can provide work for our workers. And so that's very exciting, growing the business itself. But I'm most excited about other steps that we have coming. You know, we're creating a sister nonprofit that will help create a playbook, like you said, like mirror what we're doing. So to share, because we're not fixing the huge unemployment rate in my 800 square foot bakery. That's just not going to happen. But we can have the ripple effect that I've seen already happening. You know, show like this is, this is all you need to do. And you can have this amazing employee, you know, this very loyal, dedicated worker who's going to make your workplace better. You know, and it could be something so simple. We had a few of our workers had trouble cracking eggs. You know, it. One of our job coaches found an egg cracker. It's like $20 on Amazon. And every time, boom, there goes that barrier is gone. We have the egg cracker. It works every time. And just seeing that tiny tool now allows one of our youngest students to completely independently make 40 pounds of cookie dough using our gigantic mixer by herself. And just seeing her confidence and her just, it's changed everything about her. She stands up taller and when she has friends come into the bakery, she's like, I made that. You know, and she's so proud. And it's like you get hooked, you know, you just, you can't.
• 15:54
  Speaker A: I mean, you're speaking, you're speaking to the inch down mentality where it doesn't have to be this grand massive skill or plan. It has to be the next right thing. It has to be the conscious choice to not let the severity of the mountain and the mentality of what to get to the mountain, tackle the day to day. Um, you know, I, I know that, that even in just that one story, that, that's what, that's what seems to resonate is that inclusion and support. I often say it, it ends up helping the teacher as well. Like it sort of reinforces, you know, my, my own work. And, and you're sharing that example. It's like reinforcing of why you're doing this. It, it does actually just take one simple change, one inchton of progress to have such a ripple effect onto that one person. I guess. You know, I can't help but ask, like, how has your motherhood, especially in what you've grown, reshaped your own sense of identity? It has to have affected you.
• 16:54
  Speaker B: Oh my gosh. Absolutely. I mean, I think, I guess thinking back to before I was a mom and you know, it's funny, I just visited the town where I grew up over the weekend and I ran into some old friends and it was just like interesting to be back there and just remember before, you know, and it's my life, it's. My outlook on everything is completely different, I think any parent. But being a mom of a son on the spectrum, it's, it changes, it changed everything, you know, I think it changed everything about me. It changed everything about his siblings, his father. You just, you just look at the world differently. And I find myself things have been boiled down to what's important, you know. Yeah, the noise and everything. You, you. There's so much to do and you know that you have to kind of figure out our brains work differently. You know, sometimes there's no time for some of these other things that I used to get like bogged down with.
• 17:48
  Speaker A: I know it's actually again, it's a beautiful byproduct of the process that I say probably every day there's not a single woman who has profound autism. Well, for me, I got profound non speaking autism on their bingo card. Right. That's not, that was not even one of those things. That, that was a highlighted option for me to even read like or intake. And so when you get to be so present and act upon having to be present for children that demand your presence, that byproduct is not something that you ever would have anticipated because you never thought of something so hard, providing such a incredible life luxury. All the theologians and religions and motivational speakers of the world talk about the power of now. This is like, it's like the thing. Be here now. Be where your feet are. The power of now. Like don't look at the past, don't look at the future. Stay right in the moment. And it's like, guess what? I'll do that to you. Working with this population of kids. And again, you say it out loud again. We could laugh. I love that we're laughing so much because it's like really, you want to look at everyone around you that's rushing and urgent, all these different typical things and you want to go, I think the perfect way that'll slow you down. I have exactly the right thing that's going to slow you down. You want to come do it? I'm going to come make some cookies, some cookie dough with my kid. Do you want to, gonna go take an hour walk and watch on reservation with my son who requires a harness and all this input. It'll, it'll, it'll get you really mindful of your really fast. But that's never that conscious choice. And so it begs of you and it's so cool to see and you share this about Carson's cookie dough and the evolution of it. It just constantly reinforces the present moment of moving through it and growing in that way.
• 19:35
  Speaker B: Spot on. It's so true.
• 19:36
  Speaker A: What do you think? What do you think? You know, we, because you're, you, you're sharing, you know that this has affected your, your, your other sons as well. You know, inclusion is such a, you know, this broad concept now. And I, I have a typical developing, you know, 13 year old daughter who has, you know, two siblings like Milly and Mac. How do you think that that concept. Cause it's so embedded in my home. Right. Like my daughter Morgan is so acutely, this is her life. How do we shift that inclusion nature to maybe in the company that you're building, I'm, I'm building like a product to help moms and caregivers as an, as a special needs like consultant, advocate. How do we move and what do you think you've learned from bringing those people in and making it inclusive not just to the community you serve, but to ones that are looking to help.
• 20:25
  Speaker B: I think the more we can get out there, the more we can show up and say we're here. These individuals are part of our community. They're phenomenal people. They're a phenomenal addition. It's funny, we were in the community kitchen, which was just a kitchen and then we were looking for our own space. I could not find just a kitchen as hard as I tried. So ours came with the storefront, which is just a taste of New Jersey. I was nervous. I was really very nervous. I used to work in customer service. I was a waitress through college. And people can be mean, you know, And I thought, oh, I hope people don't come in and they're like mean to the workers. I'll like go bananas, you know, I'm so proud to say I'm, I'm impressed with everyone who's come to our store. They're kind, they're understanding. Like I say, these guys make everyone better people. They make them their best version of themselves. I think the more we can get out there, any opportunity we receive to go do like. We were at Bristol Myers Squibb's campus the other day to do a tabling event and we jumped at the opportunity. We loved it. Our crew loves it. They feel so proud to show what they did. The workers, they love it. They just gravitated towards the table and they loved hearing our guys talk about, yeah, I made this cookie. This is how I made it. I think just the more we can get out there, I see it at school. When we were in school, there was not really much inclusion happening. You know, I didn't know much about autism because of that. But now I love, you know, Carson goes to a school that has typical children as well, and he's very much involved with the typical fourth graders. And they do a great job of making sure Carson interacts with them and they interact with Carson. And I think it's so beneficial for all of these opportunities that are provided that just weren't there when we were younger. And I think it's just going to make the world a better place for our children when they're older. I think it's heading in a good direction.
• 22:25
  Speaker A: Before we wrap up here, I'd love to answer, have you answered this for other mothers who might be having that spark inside of them going, I want to do something meaningful like this, I want not to replicate, but as something you're, you're such an inspiring founder in this role as a autism mom. If another mother maybe is sitting on an idea, but this feels so overwhelming, what, what would you want her to consider at first?
• 22:48
  Speaker B: I would say, you know, I said start where you are with what you have. I think any, any idea can start small. You know, whether you go to, if you're selling something, you go to one of the pop up markets, you know, like a farmer's market or festival or a fair. Just start very small, you know, learn what are the rules and regulations, of course, and just start where you are. You know, there's there's so many opportunities to start a business without some huge $2 million investment. And even, like, you know, you can grow and build on itself. Like, we. It took us a year to get in here, and it's taken me two years to really figure out the best setup in here. You know, we're still learning more every single day. And, you know, it's. It's so exciting. And for me as a mom, it's brought me so much peace, you know, and happiness. I did this for Carson, and it's. It's done as much for me as, you know, I hope it will do for Carson one day. My kids, I think it's a great example. It shows them one person can make a difference, you know, but that person does need a whole community around them. So get involved with your neighbors. Get involved with your community members. You know, I think wonderful, wonderful things can happen when you have hope and when you have a great community that joins you in that. I've seen it firsthand. I think the ripple effect is very real. You know, I would say just do it. Start. Start where you are with what you have and just start going down the path. It's going to wind all sorts of directions you never imagined. Yeah, our cookies are in Red Bulls Stadium, you know, Sports Illustrated Stadium and for Gotham and Red Bulls games. I never would have. That was even on the, like, radar for me. It's so, you know, it's. It's. You know, it's crazy. You never know where that path will leave. But I would just say just take the first step and see where it goes, you know?
• 24:33
  Speaker A: Absolutely. Kelly, thank you for this conversation. I think that, you know, your story is more than just build a business, and not just build a business to future plan for your son on the spectrum, but about what looks like to create something so meaningful inside this middle place of life and where real caregiving is sitting alongside it and real uncertainty. And I think that so many mothers listening are going to see themselves in parts of your journey in that love and presence and questions about the future and determination can build something really, really not. Not just profound, but also really radical. And what you created with Carson cookie dough is. Isn't just a product. It really is a reflection of possibility and about my. Milly and Mac deserve as they grow, too. I'm so thankful that I. That I stumbled upon your. Upon your tent at an autism speaks walk and that you took the time to share with us today. I know this conversation is going to stay with people long after they finish listening, so thank you for being here today.
• 25:36
  Speaker B: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to share our story. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
• 25:41
  Speaker A: Absolutely. And until next time, everyone, here on the Inch Jones Podcast.