Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 209 - What Exactly Does It Mean to Lie?

Transcript

Ep. 209 - What Exactly Does It Mean to Lie? · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:05
  Emeal Zwayne: I would say that this is a place to be really cautious, absolutely, and that I think that the circumstances are very, very rare, few and far between, where not speaking the truth as it is is acceptable, and I think it would be in those rare circumstances and again, maybe I'm wrong, but that has been my and as we've talked about it, someone's coming in.
• 1:28
  Emeal Zwayne: They want to rape your wife, tell us where she is or where is she, or whatever A situation where the only way you're going to save your wife is by not telling them the truth or by intentionally misleading them or rebuking them.
• 1:43
  Mark Spence: Once again, I don't see why I need to play by the rules of the people that come inside the house.
• 1:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and you don't need to.
• 1:49
  Emeal Zwayne: But I think there could be certain circumstances where they're just going to know by you not giving them an answer or whatever, and where we would have to be misleading in order to save someone.
• 1:58
  Ray Comfort: Or if you say to the Nazis, it depends on what your definition of a Jew is.
• 2:03
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah and so I think I mean I personally lean toward the Lord would not attribute that to you as a lie, in the same way that he wouldn't attribute murder to you as you take the life of another person who's trying to kill your family member, you know, in self-defense.
• 2:22
  Mark Spence: See, the only danger that I see with that perhaps easy is we're moving the goalpost.
• 2:27
  Mark Spence: Perhaps and I throw in the word perhaps right, because then it becomes subjective and up to each individual to decide.
• 2:33
  Mark Spence: Well, I'm trying to protect right, that is what I'm attempting to do.
• 2:41
  Emeal Zwayne: Welcome to the Living Waters podcast segment called Name that Tune, where a highly competent musical genius, arab, hums a tune and his underprivileged non-Arab co-hosts have to name that tune.
• 2:56
  Oscar Navarro: Have you ever told a lie?
• 3:00
  Emeal Zwayne: No.
• 3:02
  Ray Comfort: That's not it.
• 3:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Come on, mark, at least Mark, the greatest American hum.
• 3:09
  Ray Comfort: Yes.
• 3:10
  Emeal Zwayne: Mark Spence.
• 3:11
  Emeal Zwayne: He named that tune.
• 3:12
  Ray Comfort: That was a dumb program, but fun.
• 3:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Okay, rachel and I were looking at it last night Is that the one where the guy flew and spanned it.
• 3:18
  Oscar Navarro: Yes, he hits things when he flies.
• 3:21
  Ray Comfort: He's just not very good at things.
• 3:22
  Emeal Zwayne: Seriously, last night I was watching the opening for it.
• 3:26
  Ray Comfort: Did you identify with it?
• 3:27
  Ray Comfort: I identified you with it.
• 3:30
  Oscar Navarro: I thought if Ray was a superhero he would be the greatest American hero Smash through wolves.
• 3:35
  Oscar Navarro: Isn't it funny how the 70s superheroes were all scrawny and slightly out of shape.
• 3:39
  Oscar Navarro: Oh, it was hilarious.
• 3:41
  Emeal Zwayne: The whole premise was I think this guy encountered aliens or something and they gave him the suit that made him a superhero.
• 3:47
  Emeal Zwayne: But he was clumsy and he'd always run into walls and he couldn't.
• 3:51
  Emeal Zwayne: Do you guys remember Flash?
• 3:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, that was a comedy.
• 3:55
  Emeal Zwayne: That's Ray's life, do you remember?
• 3:58
  Oscar Navarro: Flash.
• 3:59
  Oscar Navarro: The movie Flash Gordon.
• 4:00
  Ray Comfort: No, I remember the original Flash 1853?
• 4:04
  Ray Comfort: .
• 4:04
  Ray Comfort: What was he?
• 4:06
  Emeal Zwayne: He's a guy that goes fast everywhere, was he no?
• 4:08
  Oscar Navarro: That was Roger.
• 4:09
  Oscar Navarro: That was Roger Moving on, queen did the score.
• 4:15
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, anyways, that's great Were you guys in the superheroes growing up.
• 4:22
  Oscar Navarro: I liked Batman.
• 4:22
  Oscar Navarro: I was like a Batman.
• 4:24
  Oscar Navarro: Batman the animated series guy.
• 4:25
  Oscar Navarro: I remember being I don't know really little in going seeing Batman Returns in theaters.
• 4:31
  Oscar Navarro: We stood in the line for a really long time.
• 4:34
  Emeal Zwayne: So I was a big Batman fan, mark, at what age did you stop dressing as Wonder Woman?
• 4:37
  Emeal Zwayne: You know who I loved as a kid superhero Mighty Mouse, oh really.
• 4:49
  Oscar Navarro: Is that why you fell in love with Ray?
• 4:51
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I mean you'd think, right, like I mean Superman, batman, spider-man.
• 4:57
  Emeal Zwayne: No, mighty Mouse.
• 4:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Mighty Mouse will save the day.
• 5:01
  Emeal Zwayne: You remember Mighty Mouse guys?
• 5:02
  Ray Comfort: I remember the cartoon.
• 5:03
  Ray Comfort: You remember Mighty Mouse?
• 5:04
  Ray Comfort: Yes, of course it's like from 1953 sort of thing.
• 5:08
  Emeal Zwayne: It's way back.
• 5:08
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, mine was more of the modern version.
• 5:09
  Mark Spence: One of the greatest UFC fighters of all time is known as Mighty Mouse.
• 5:12
  Mark Spence: Really, really, demetrius Johnson.
• 5:15
  Ray Comfort: He's called Mighty Mouse.
• 5:16
  Mark Spence: He's like 135 pounds, so can wet.
• 5:18
  Mark Spence: He's absolutely amazing.
• 5:19
  Mark Spence: He was in a fight with a guy.
• 5:21
  Mark Spence: He jumped up and in the air he put the gun in an arm bar and got him to submit.
• 5:25
  Mark Spence: By the time they hit the ground In the air, yeah.
• 5:28
  Emeal Zwayne: I taught him that.
• 5:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, it's good.
• 5:31
  Emeal Zwayne: Speedy Gonzalez, yeah, ray, what superheroes are around when you're a kid?
• 5:36
  Emeal Zwayne: Superman, sheet man.
• 5:38
  Ray Comfort: Batman, maxwell Smart.
• 5:41
  Oscar Navarro: Electric eel boy Maxwell Smart.
• 5:42
  Ray Comfort: Oh nice, 99,.
• 5:43
  Ray Comfort: Hand me the sho-found.
• 5:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray, you would have been a good Maxwell Smart.
• 5:51
  Ray Comfort: Well, he seemed normal to me, yeah.
• 5:53
  Emeal Zwayne: Who's Maxwell Smart?
• 5:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, stop it.
• 5:54
  Emeal Zwayne: The cone of silence.
• 5:55
  Emeal Zwayne: The cone of silence.
• 5:57
  Ray Comfort: Yeah they would come down from the roof where he talked with his boss, and his boss could never hear what he was saying in the cone of silence and they'd have to yell at each other so everyone in the office could hear what they were yelling about in the cone of silence.
• 6:07
  Ray Comfort: It was very funny.
• 6:08
  Ray Comfort: It was quite corny, but it was funny.
• 6:09
  Ray Comfort: A black and white on the old telly no, it was color, oh.
• 6:12
  Emeal Zwayne: But it was just unusual, yeah.
• 6:14
  Emeal Zwayne: It was really funny.
• 6:15
  Emeal Zwayne: He was like an agent, a doofus, but he was a doofus agent, you know he's been.
• 6:20
  Ray Comfort: He's like Colombo, like that kind of Colombo was just, he was brilliant but he was just scruffy.
• 6:23
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, Just wore a scruffy old coat.
• 6:26
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, but you know, I wonder, at what point do television executives come to realize like there's something about this sort of theme or dynamic, that something in the human heart resonates with it, and there is that like someone who's in a position that's supposed to be important, but they're just a klutz?
• 6:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, you know like three Stooges.
• 6:47
  Ray Comfort: They're just like you know, I'm not a political program.
• 6:50
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm not a political program, I'm friends, but you know what I'm saying.
• 6:55
  Ray Comfort: Like there aren't, there are things Now.
• 6:56
  Ray Comfort: When your kids used to watch the three Stooges, what did you continually say to?
• 7:00
  Emeal Zwayne: them Wrong, that's wrong.
• 7:02
  Emeal Zwayne: Don't do that to each other.
• 7:03
  Ray Comfort: They're hitting his head with a hammer Wrong.
• 7:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, seriously, I mean, you got little kids and they emulate everything, and so I'm thinking they might think this is okay to poke each other in the eyes and do all this stuff.
• 7:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Wrong, oh wrong.
• 7:16
  Emeal Zwayne: I have this thing I do when my kids do something wrong.
• 7:19
  Emeal Zwayne: Mark knows the sound.
• 7:20
  Emeal Zwayne: His kids do it, bah, bah.
• 7:26
  Oscar Navarro: There's something about that, is that your response?
• 7:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, like when they were, especially when they were young, like I think my mom did it.
• 7:31
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, I know my mom did it, so I just like someone's doing something like Bah, is it kind of like from sheepdogs?
• 7:37
  Emeal Zwayne: It's like watch it?
• 7:39
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, exactly, is that what it means?
• 7:41
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, Bah Bah, my whole life is bah, bah.
• 7:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Isn't it a helpful sound though?
• 7:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it sounds like a sheep.
• 7:51
  Mark Spence: Yes, my daughter was walking along with her before they actually became an official thing.
• 7:57
  Mark Spence: I don't know, maybe they were a boyfriend, girlfriend and what, but he went to hold her hand and as soon as he went to hold her hand I went Bah, I want to know if the Wayne kids get triggered when they're walking by sheep.
• 8:08
  Oscar Navarro: Oh no, I'm sorry.
• 8:12
  Emeal Zwayne: No, you know what drives my kids crazy.
• 8:13
  Ray Comfort: You do.
• 8:14
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm going to be watching something.
• 8:16
  Emeal Zwayne: One time we were in a movie or something.
• 8:17
  Emeal Zwayne: It was a clean movie, but someone said a rude remark.
• 8:20
  Emeal Zwayne: I go, bah, in the theater, I drive them crazy.
• 8:25
  Emeal Zwayne: Shhh, embarrass our children for fun.
• 8:29
  Ray Comfort: All right, friends, we have a comment I think you're making a lot of money by making fast foods and silent crinkle paper in movies.
• 8:38
  Emeal Zwayne: Seriously man.
• 8:39
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, something brings in some chips Silent chips and the paper is just so noisy.
• 8:45
  Emeal Zwayne: You know what?
• 8:45
  Emeal Zwayne: I've heard people answer their cell phone in the theater.
• 8:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Let me ask you this what is it with people who, seriously, it's like a, it's some sort of mental disorder when their phone, when their phone hits their ear, they're convinced no one else is around, no one else can hear them.
• 9:00
  Emeal Zwayne: A disconnect from reality, seriously.
• 9:02
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh yeah, brah, and they start talking about personal things, they start cussing, they start it's weird.
• 9:11
  Ray Comfort: What church is this?
• 9:12
  Emeal Zwayne: The church of the phonyites.
• 9:13
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, oh, that was a good name.
• 9:16
  Emeal Zwayne: Phone, yeah, all right, friends, here's a comment.
• 9:22
  Emeal Zwayne: This is from fun nickname Blah.
• 9:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Such a blessing.
• 9:25
  Emeal Zwayne: This podcast has answered my prayers and then some.
• 9:28
  Emeal Zwayne: It's like having a men's meeting, but I get to sit in on four or five a day.
• 9:33
  Emeal Zwayne: It has helped me witness to people.
• 9:35
  Emeal Zwayne: It has helped me stay on the path.
• 9:36
  Emeal Zwayne: It has helped me contribute to Sunday school classes and our own men's group.
• 9:40
  Emeal Zwayne: When one of our guys is struggling and asking for prayer, not only do I pray, but I can pretty much find an episode that relates to the struggles and send it to him for encouragement.
• 9:51
  Emeal Zwayne: Wow, and that moves me.
• 9:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you so much for.
• 9:54
  Ray Comfort: Thank you, move then.
• 9:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Moves me out of here.
• 9:58
  Emeal Zwayne: This was fun nickname, blah.
• 10:00
  Emeal Zwayne: Thanks Blah, thank you, blah Leave.
• 10:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah Well, you remember that right.
• 10:08
  Ray Comfort: Tell the people.
• 10:08
  Ray Comfort: Well, when we were preaching, opening outside the courts for two years, when people couldn't get away and say you've got a court case coming pleading for mercy, and then we say there's another court case you have to face on Judgement Day, but one guy when I was speaking just started saying you do it easy.
• 10:26
  Ray Comfort: He was saying leave, but he sounded like a cow that's ready to be milked, I know.
• 10:36
  Oscar Navarro: I think you ended up pointing it out, I think I said you sound like a cow that needs to be milked.
• 10:41
  Oscar Navarro: Was he in line just saying it.
• 10:43
  Emeal Zwayne: He was in line Like repeatedly.
• 10:46
  Ray Comfort: There was about 60 people every morning 40 to 60 people Mark used to come to and every morning for two years during the week we would preach the gospel to a crowd that couldn't get away, but we gave them gifts and all sorts of things and people were really nice.
• 11:03
  Emeal Zwayne: There were times we got applause.
• 11:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, seriously, yeah, that's from our family, but for each other.
• 11:09
  Emeal Zwayne: But we should have planted some of our staff members in that crowd every day.
• 11:12
  Ray Comfort: No, we could never think of that.
• 11:13
  Ray Comfort: To clap and we're talking about lying in this episode.
• 11:19
  Emeal Zwayne: But instead of leave, I should have really been saying move.
• 11:22
  Emeal Zwayne: That would have been more fitting for a camp.
• 11:25
  Oscar Navarro: I like that that move was like a full body.
• 11:27
  Oscar Navarro: Did you like that?
• 11:28
  Oscar Navarro: You were fully in that, I do everything, 100%, oscar.
• 11:33
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, friends, this podcast was brought to you by undeniable evidence.
• 11:38
  Emeal Zwayne: 10 of the top scientific facts in the Bible Ray.
• 11:42
  Emeal Zwayne: Do you remember you wrote that book?
• 11:43
  Ray Comfort: Yes, I could never forget.
• 11:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, friends, this will help you find out what the top 10 scientific facts are in the Bible.
• 11:53
  Oscar Navarro: It's a pretty short book too, if I remember it Like Like the author.
• 11:58
  Ray Comfort: Of course we like the author.
• 11:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and don't forget, friends, the Living Waters mug.
• 12:02
  Emeal Zwayne: It will help you drink all sorts of things.
• 12:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Oscar, you haven't done anything to my face yet on that, this is actually five months.
• 12:09
  Ray Comfort: No, you did, you gave me a missing tooth.
• 12:12
  Oscar Navarro: I like it Ray what else can you do to Ray?
• 12:15
  Oscar Navarro: What about yourself?
• 12:17
  Emeal Zwayne: You're talking about perfection.
• 12:18
  Ray Comfort: That's what you're talking about.
• 12:19
  Oscar Navarro: I like that in the last episode, in the middle of the episode, Mark notices here's a four mugs and one.
• 12:26
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, on the side, that's right For those who can't see, and what we're referring to is we all each the four of us have the Living Waters mugs that we're drinking waters out of, and Lyne is customized.
• 12:38
  Oscar Navarro: Ez is missing a tooth.
• 12:40
  Oscar Navarro: Foo man 2 Mustache yeah, mark's got a handlebar mustache with some sideburns.
• 12:46
  Ray Comfort: Seriously, we're actually drinking Living Waters, yeah, and if you call up soon, you'll get some too.
• 12:52
  Mark Spence: But wait, there's more.
• 12:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, you know what, though?
• 12:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Seriously, we should do a contest where we give out, like pre-evidence, vibrational for anyone who sends us the best picture with their mug Customized mugs, we'll do something funky with the mug.
• 13:05
  Oscar Navarro: I want the best customized mug.
• 13:07
  Ray Comfort: Oh, doing something funky with the mug, like being on top of Mount Everest and thinking from it.
• 13:11
  Ray Comfort: Can you imagine yeah To send us a picture of you doing something unusual with the mug and we'll send you a free evidence file.
• 13:18
  Ray Comfort: We should do it, yeah we need to do that.
• 13:20
  Emeal Zwayne: No we will do it.
• 13:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Okay, we're doing it right now.
• 13:22
  Emeal Zwayne: A contest birth on the spot, the birthing pains.
• 13:29
  Mark Spence: Well, what about a contest for those graphic artists out there who want to design a mug for the Living Waters podcast?
• 13:36
  Ray Comfort: So this too what about a bring your?
• 13:38
  Oscar Navarro: mug to work day.
• 13:40
  Ray Comfort: It's now dissipated to three.
• 13:41
  Ray Comfort: All right, we'll do it with one.
• 13:43
  Oscar Navarro: All right, all right, what is it?
• 13:44
  Oscar Navarro: All right, let's go right now.
• 13:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Whoever sends us the best picture of doing something funny with our mug, we'll send you so funny.
• 13:52
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, like feeding a cow with the mug or something like that.
• 13:55
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, just something funky out of the box.
• 13:57
  Emeal Zwayne: You figure it out, friends.
• 13:58
  Ray Comfort: Oh, presenting one to the President of the United States would be good.
• 14:01
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, okay, and maybe we'll repeat this again.
• 14:03
  Emeal Zwayne: You can?
• 14:04
  Oscar Navarro: draw on your mugs, like I did to mine.
• 14:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, yeah, that's not funny.
• 14:08
  Emeal Zwayne: So where do they send this?
• 14:09
  Emeal Zwayne: They?
• 14:09
  Mark Spence: post it online.
• 14:11
  Oscar Navarro: No, no, no.
• 14:11
  Oscar Navarro: They post it online with the hashtag LWMugs.
• 14:16
  Oscar Navarro: Okay.
• 14:17
  Emeal Zwayne: Hashtag LWMugs and then also send it to our.
• 14:20
  Emeal Zwayne: How would we know that they posted it Well?
• 14:21
  Oscar Navarro: because we just look up the hashtag.
• 14:23
  Oscar Navarro: So Twitter, instagram, facebook use the hashtag LWMugs and we can search up the hashtag and okay.
• 14:29
  Ray Comfort: I like how this is happening right here.
• 14:31
  Ray Comfort: Can you search up the hashtags?
• 14:32
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, so you'll find it.
• 14:35
  Oscar Navarro: As long as you use the hashtag LWMugs with an S yeah.
• 14:39
  Oscar Navarro: So when is this contest end?
• 14:42
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't know.
• 14:42
  Ray Comfort: When the trumpet sounds.
• 14:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Send it in, and maybe we'll do it again and again.
• 14:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, we'll send it.
• 14:47
  Ray Comfort: I find it exciting.
• 14:47
  Emeal Zwayne: There you go, friends.
• 14:49
  Mark Spence: Will there be multiple evidence, bibles that could perhaps be sent out, or is it just?
• 14:54
  Ray Comfort: the best one, the best one first and works.
• 14:56
  Ray Comfort: We'll keep doing it.
• 14:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, good idea, ray.
• 14:57
  Emeal Zwayne: There you have it, friends, don't forget the hashtag.
• 15:00
  Mark Spence: But why evidence bibles?
• 15:01
  Mark Spence: Why don't we do the evidence?
• 15:02
  Emeal Zwayne: study.
• 15:02
  Mark Spence: Bible.
• 15:03
  Oscar Navarro: And if you don't have a mug yet, you can get one at.
• 15:05
  Emeal Zwayne: LivingWaterscom.
• 15:06
  Emeal Zwayne: There you go, and don't forget friends.
• 15:08
  Ray Comfort: Why don't we have a committee meeting?
• 15:09
  Ray Comfort: I think the door should be blue.
• 15:11
  Mark Spence: The door should be blue.
• 15:12
  Oscar Navarro: See that.
• 15:13
  Emeal Zwayne: Decisions on the spot.
• 15:14
  Oscar Navarro: I like that.
• 15:14
  Oscar Navarro: This is how we make all of our decisions.
• 15:17
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, friends, don't forget to have an study Bible all at LivingWaterscom.
• 15:22
  Emeal Zwayne: All right.
• 15:22
  Emeal Zwayne: Today we are talking about what exactly does it mean to lie, to not tell the truth?
• 15:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Why is it, guys, seriously, why is it Muck, just finish the program.
• 15:34
  Emeal Zwayne: But why is it that of all things, why is it that we give sins like these titles to make them nicer?
• 15:42
  Ray Comfort: Why is it?
• 15:44
  Emeal Zwayne: Why is it we go into like sizes and colors?
• 15:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Little white lie.
• 15:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Little truth, half truth, just a small dishonesty, just slightly deceptive.
• 15:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Just skewed the truth a bit.
• 15:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Tiny lie, yeah, teeny tiny.
• 16:01
  Emeal Zwayne: But yeah, Mark, you breathed.
• 16:05
  Mark Spence: You're on good sign.
• 16:06
  Mark Spence: I just remember, with the whole debacle with Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton, when he said I it depends how you define.
• 16:13
  Mark Spence: What the definition?
• 16:15
  Emeal Zwayne: of the word is Is.
• 16:16
  Mark Spence: Right, it's just like, wow, we've just become I think we've all gotten our doctorate's degree and being deceptive, right, and it takes Christ to make that right.
• 16:26
  Ray Comfort: Well, lying comes naturally, doesn't it?
• 16:27
  Ray Comfort: I mean, kids lie right from the time they can talk.
• 16:30
  Ray Comfort: I once saw a great quote that taking the easy path is what makes men and rivers crooked.
• 16:38
  Ray Comfort: And that's what lying is about taking the easy path.
• 16:41
  Ray Comfort: You don't wanna face the truth, so you lie.
• 16:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah well, you guys noticed lately in the whole psychobabble world with parenting.
• 16:48
  Emeal Zwayne: By the way, friends, don't get your parenting cues from these new social gurus that don't know anything about parenting, because it's not based on the foundation of God's word.
• 16:57
  Emeal Zwayne: But their whole shtick is oh no, your kids are doing this for a reason and it's okay.
• 17:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Let them do it, and what's up with that?
• 17:07
  Mark Spence: Not because they're under-generated.
• 17:08
  Mark Spence: Some of the devil.
• 17:10
  Emeal Zwayne: What's that?
• 17:10
  Emeal Zwayne: Let them lie, yeah, like it's okay for your kids to lie.
• 17:13
  Emeal Zwayne: It's just a part of their psychological development and they're really trying to do this or that or the other.
• 17:18
  Emeal Zwayne: Again, I'm not negating that we work through things with our kids, but it's like, basically, you're grooming your child to be a deceitful yeah, a compulsive liar.
• 17:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Now, there are people that do have, like some more than others, a compulsion to constantly make up stories.
• 17:36
  Ray Comfort: I can't stand lying.
• 17:39
  Emeal Zwayne: Then lie sitting.
• 17:41
  Ray Comfort: I can't lie standing.
• 17:43
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, compulsive liars.
• 17:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah.
• 17:46
  Oscar Navarro: I've known one or two.
• 17:47
  Oscar Navarro: I've known at least two.
• 17:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Really Define them, Oscar.
• 17:50
  Emeal Zwayne: What is a compulsive?
• 17:52
  Oscar Navarro: liar.
• 17:52
  Oscar Navarro: Well, I don't have an official definition memorized, but how I would describe it one particular person is that they would compulsively lie, for no personal gain, for no reason whatsoever, about the most obscure and weird things, and also their lies would they would repeat lies that weren't well thought out.
• 18:19
  Emeal Zwayne: So they would alter them the next time around.
• 18:21
  Oscar Navarro: They would alter them, they would and again, they're not well thought out.
• 18:24
  Oscar Navarro: There's no personal gain.
• 18:26
  Oscar Navarro: It was just like I don't know where it came from, but I used to work with somebody and I knew somebody that were compulsive liars and it was like so actually, yeah, yeah, so anyway, it was so fascinating.
• 18:37
  Oscar Navarro: I remember this one time.
• 18:37
  Oscar Navarro: So this friend of mine in high school I was hanging out at his house, like on a Tuesday night, let's say, and it's like eight PM.
• 18:46
  Oscar Navarro: I go home, I go to bed, I wake up the next morning and he was an interesting guy.
• 18:49
  Oscar Navarro: Every now and then he would go to school wearing a suit, like a two-piece suit.
• 18:52
  Oscar Navarro: And so he shows up to school the next day wearing a two-piece suit and I'm standing right next to him and someone's like oh, what are you wearing the suit for?
• 19:00
  Oscar Navarro: And he's like oh well, I was in this massive karate tournament in San Francisco last night and I just got home this morning and didn't have the time to change, so I came right to school and I'm like I look over at him and he kinda like looks at me and like looks back to the guy and I was like what?
• 19:17
  Oscar Navarro: Like it's just so random, you know.
• 19:20
  Oscar Navarro: But anyways, I would say compulsive life is the inability to prevent yourself from lying, and for no personal, gain.
• 19:27
  Mark Spence: Yeah, dennis Eastman and I, we had a friend from the college group when, where we had gotten saved and there was a guy who you knew he was lying because his lips were moving.
• 19:37
  Ray Comfort: And it didn't matter who was this.
• 19:40
  Mark Spence: This was at the church that you currently attend now at Crosspoint, but I forget my question.
• 19:45
  Oscar Navarro: What was the pastor's name?
• 19:46
  Oscar Navarro: Bruce Garter.
• 19:48
  Mark Spence: And it was just a gentleman that was inside the college group, but he would come up with the craziest, craziest stories, so much so that we now use his name as an advert, like where we'd say hey.
• 19:58
  Mark Spence: Or an advert we'd say hey, don't wreck it, I'm gonna wreck Is this true.
• 20:03
  Mark Spence: Mark, what's that?
• 20:04
  Mark Spence: This is true, this is true, this is true, you're lying Mark.
• 20:09
  Emeal Zwayne: But Mark, was it the kind of guy that everyone knew that he was lying?
• 20:13
  Mark Spence: Yeah, because they were so outlandish.
• 20:15
  Mark Spence: The stories are so outlandish it you know it's funny because the first sermon I ever taught was to the college group and Dennis Eastman still makes fun of me to this day because of what I did.
• 20:26
  Mark Spence: It was a message online and I went on for about 10 minutes of a story and the whole story was made up.
• 20:32
  Mark Spence: It was just a big lie.
• 20:34
  Mark Spence: I didn't know how to teach my homo-elitics was.
• 20:36
  Mark Spence: It was terrible and when I was all done I said that was a lie.
• 20:40
  Mark Spence: So we're gonna be talking about lying today.
• 20:42
  Mark Spence: Everybody's just kind of looking at each other like wait, what?
• 20:45
  Ray Comfort: is going on.
• 20:47
  Mark Spence: That's what happens when you give somebody a microphone like a month old.
• 20:49
  Mark Spence: In the Lord, yeah not a good idea.
• 20:51
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, ray, one of the things we commonly ask people on the streets and we didn't used to, and then someone said you should ask it like this, and it really changed everything.
• 21:00
  Ray Comfort: Well, there was Anna Jackson.
• 21:01
  Ray Comfort: She just changed everything for me with that one change.
• 21:03
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it used to be.
• 21:04
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, have you ever to lie?
• 21:05
  Emeal Zwayne: And then it was changed to how many lies have you told?
• 21:08
  Ray Comfort: That ruined your little ditty about fries.
• 21:11
  Emeal Zwayne: I know, have you ever sold the fry?
• 21:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, but, Ray, we get a common response to that from people.
• 21:20
  Emeal Zwayne: It's almost like this oh, you know, like so many, right?
• 21:25
  Ray Comfort: I mean, isn't that typical, Absolutely absolutely All the time you know about.
• 21:28
  Ray Comfort: They're just white lies.
• 21:30
  Ray Comfort: And that's when I asked them when they've stolen something, was it just white things or what?
• 21:33
  Ray Comfort: Oh, it's really good, when someone says a white lie, to pin their tail, Did you say?
• 21:38
  Ray Comfort: Okay, tell me, what do you mean by a white lie?
• 21:40
  Ray Comfort: Why?
• 21:40
  Emeal Zwayne: is it?
• 21:41
  Ray Comfort: white and they just say, well, it's not really serious.
• 21:44
  Emeal Zwayne: Innocent.
• 21:44
  Emeal Zwayne: They probably described it in innocent light and then they go back to the old.
• 21:47
  Ray Comfort: well, if your wife says, do I look fat, honey?
• 21:51
  Ray Comfort: And I'm not talking about discretion, I'm talking about barefaced lies.
• 21:56
  Oscar Navarro: Sorry, could you keep going?
• 21:57
  Ray Comfort: No, I used to do that and I'm just filled with curiosity to know what's going on next?
• 22:00
  Oscar Navarro: No, no, I wanna hear you finish.
• 22:01
  Ray Comfort: Well, a pathological liar is one that lies to get their way, and a compulsive liar lies out of habit.
• 22:08
  Ray Comfort: The world has compartmentalized liars.
• 22:11
  Ray Comfort: But and it also says a pathological liar has a mental health issue.
• 22:15
  Ray Comfort: That's just lying.
• 22:17
  Ray Comfort: It's why it says all liars.
• 22:18
  Oscar Navarro: We are a spiritual health issue.
• 22:19
  Ray Comfort: All liars live their part in the lake of fire.
• 22:21
  Mark Spence: So, ray, what is the difference here, then, between discretion and lying?
• 22:25
  Oscar Navarro: Well, you don't wanna get beaten up by your wife, yeah, well this is really important because we need to get into one, I think we need to get into the theology of why it's wrong to lie, and then we need to define what is a lie.
• 22:36
  Oscar Navarro: And we need to talk about situational ethics, because the scripture gives discretion for situational ethics.
• 22:41
  Oscar Navarro: And so, first and foremost, from a theological perspective, why are we called not to lie?
• 22:46
  Oscar Navarro: It's simple God is the God of truth and we are called to be like God, that is, being truth tellers, creatures made by a creator who always tells the truth In order to glorify him and other, in order to represent our creator.
• 23:06
  Oscar Navarro: We are called to be truth tellers.
• 23:08
  Emeal Zwayne: Oscar, I'm so glad you pointed that out and this is something that we remind people of.
• 23:12
  Emeal Zwayne: I remember hearing someone share it long ago and I thought man that's so profound.
• 23:16
  Emeal Zwayne: God didn't just make up a bunch of commandments on a whim, like, oh, this would be good and that would be good, but the commandments are interrelated to his nature, his character so good.
• 23:29
  Emeal Zwayne: So it's been said right.
• 23:30
  Emeal Zwayne: It's wrong to lie because God is not a liar.
• 23:34
  Emeal Zwayne: It's wrong to commit adultery because God is not unfaithful.
• 23:38
  Emeal Zwayne: It's wrong to steal, because God is not a thief.
• 23:42
  Emeal Zwayne: What could he steal?
• 23:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Right?
• 23:45
  Oscar Navarro: I'll answer that, but no this is an important theological understanding of the law.
• 23:50
  Oscar Navarro: It's not arbitrary laws that God gives us for no reason whatsoever.
• 23:54
  Oscar Navarro: It's that we were created to glorify God.
• 23:56
  Oscar Navarro: That is the intended purpose of our design is to put on display the glory of God, and so the commandments, the laws that he gives us are ways for him to let us know something about who he is, which is exactly what you're saying.
• 24:11
  Oscar Navarro: We have a God who speaks truth, who does not lie, who all things belong to him, so does not steal.
• 24:16
  Oscar Navarro: There are no other gods, and so there are no other gods before him, right?
• 24:20
  Oscar Navarro: And so these laws are given to us so that we know how to reflect the one who made us.
• 24:27
  Oscar Navarro: And when we fall short, ultimately, what is sin?
• 24:31
  Oscar Navarro: It's not breaking arbitrary laws.
• 24:34
  Oscar Navarro: It's falling short of your intended design, which is to glorify God.
• 24:39
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, yeah, so Exodus 2016.
• 24:42
  Emeal Zwayne: Again, we've been visiting some of the commandments that we haven't touched on yet in previous episodes, and today we're talking about lying, and it makes it clear there, right, exodus 2016,.
• 24:51
  Emeal Zwayne: Not to bear false witness Colossians 3, 9 to 10, do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds and have put on the new man, who was renewed, and knowledge according to the image of him, who created him.
• 25:05
  Ray Comfort: I just want to say that Exodus 2016.
• 25:07
  Ray Comfort: Often people say, look, it's not lying, it's referring to speaking the truth when you're in a court of law, Because it says you should not take the name of the Lord God.
• 25:15
  Ray Comfort: No, that's not.
• 25:16
  Ray Comfort: That's the third command I'm getting mixed up.
• 25:18
  Ray Comfort: Here's the amplified Bible.
• 25:20
  Ray Comfort: Shall I turn it down A little louder.
• 25:21
  Ray Comfort: A little louder.
• 25:22
  Ray Comfort: You should not testify falsely.
• 25:24
  Ray Comfort: That is lie, withhold or manipulate the truth against your neighbor or any person.
• 25:29
  Ray Comfort: So that covers it.
• 25:31
  Ray Comfort: It is lying in court or out of court.
• 25:33
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and absolutely, whatever people might try to say.
• 25:37
  Emeal Zwayne: Obviously we know that's not what it's limited to, but even in Scripture where we see God's heart toward lying Proverbs 12-22, lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who deal truthfully are His delight Proverbs 6, 16 and 19,.
• 25:55
  Emeal Zwayne: There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to Him Oddie eyes, a lying tongue, and it goes on.
• 26:02
  Emeal Zwayne: So there's no question that lying is detestable to the Lord and Mark.
• 26:07
  Emeal Zwayne: In the Colossians passage that I quoted, he says do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds.
• 26:16
  Mark Spence: Yeah, think about how many times we lie to protect, to preserve, to get ahead.
• 26:21
  Mark Spence: We don't need to do that anymore.
• 26:24
  Mark Spence: God doesn't need our help.
• 26:25
  Mark Spence: Stretch the story, give God the glory People often do when they're given their testimony.
• 26:29
  Mark Spence: We need to just be careful.
• 26:32
  Mark Spence: God desires truth in the inward parts, curtis Vaughn.
• 26:37
  Mark Spence: He said lying is stating something, either written, oral or with other signals, with the intent to mislead.
• 26:44
  Mark Spence: Lying doesn't necessarily have to be in a oral, verbal way of communication.
• 26:52
  Mark Spence: I'm just trying to mislead.
• 26:54
  Mark Spence: I'm trying to protect and preserve in such a way to lead you down a direction other than that which is absolutely 100% correct and true.
• 27:05
  Oscar Navarro: Perhaps by leaving information out.
• 27:06
  Oscar Navarro: So then situational effects comes into play.
• 27:10
  Oscar Navarro: Somebody doesn't own a dog, but they live in a rough neighborhood, and so they put up a sign beware of dog.
• 27:16
  Oscar Navarro: Are they lying or a woman who's being attacked tells-.
• 27:21
  Ray Comfort: I've actually done that, yeah, you attacked a woman.
• 27:23
  Ray Comfort: No, we had a poodle and I put up a big sign beware of a dog, you lied.
• 27:31
  Oscar Navarro: Or another example is a woman is being attacked and she tells the attacker that her husband's on her way home, that he's in the other room.
• 27:38
  Oscar Navarro: Has she bear false witness?
• 27:40
  Oscar Navarro: Is she lying?
• 27:41
  Oscar Navarro: Is that a sin?
• 27:43
  Oscar Navarro: Or you think of people that hide Jews during Nazi Germany?
• 27:47
  Oscar Navarro: Were they lying?
• 27:49
  Oscar Navarro: Were they bearing false witness?
• 27:50
  Oscar Navarro: Were they sinning?
• 27:52
  Mark Spence: I'd like to kind of address that I was being interviewed by a radio program from a friend of ours.
• 27:56
  Mark Spence: He had asked this question.
• 27:58
  Mark Spence: He said well, if it was 1942 and you were hiding Jews and SS soldiers come to the door and they say they asked you the question are you hiding Jews, yes or no?
• 28:09
  Mark Spence: I said well, let me ask you this how would you answer that?
• 28:11
  Mark Spence: He goes.
• 28:12
  Mark Spence: I would say yes, I am.
• 28:14
  Mark Spence: I would be honest and I would answer the question yes, he's all.
• 28:17
  Mark Spence: Would you say no, and I said I wouldn't say the one because I do not bow to the dictates of evil people inside my life.
• 28:24
  Mark Spence: I don't have to play by the rules of the people that are trying to back me up into a corner.
• 28:29
  Mark Spence: He says so what would you say?
• 28:30
  Mark Spence: I would say- Change the subject.
• 28:32
  Mark Spence: What's your favorite color?
• 28:33
  Mark Spence: Jackson T?
• 28:35
  Mark Spence: No, I would rebuke them in the name of Jesus Christ, so much so where God would have to have mercy upon them.
• 28:43
  Mark Spence: I mean, are you hiding Jews?
• 28:45
  Mark Spence: The Lord rebuke you, blame If you do not repent.
• 28:50
  Mark Spence: Well, listen, this is where we have to have a lofty view of God's sovereignty.
• 28:54
  Mark Spence: That I have an insurance plan that is out of this world, that nobody can do anything to me unless God says that is perfect, this isn't a great movie man.
• 29:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, really, this is a good discussion.
• 29:08
  Emeal Zwayne: It's divisive, yeah, it's one I've gone back and forth on with people and it's one that I've really tried to work through in my own mind, because obviously, for example, we'll look at the commandment translated in many versions you shall not kill.
• 29:21
  Emeal Zwayne: New King James and others has it as you shall not murder, and I believe it's appropriate you shall not murder.
• 29:26
  Emeal Zwayne: You look at that and you say, okay, there is a difference between taking life in this instance and in that instance.
• 29:33
  Emeal Zwayne: Would God take that and apply it to you as a violation of that commandment?
• 29:36
  Emeal Zwayne: Because it's taking all the life?
• 29:37
  Emeal Zwayne: You know Right, and that's the question.
• 29:40
  Emeal Zwayne: So if someone comes to someone's door and says like, let's take Cory Timboom in their family, I don't know, but I would assume they denied it and said, no, we're not hiding Jews.
• 29:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh rehab, yeah yeah.
• 29:51
  Emeal Zwayne: Does God take that and then apply it to that person's account as a sin?
• 29:59
  Emeal Zwayne: If they said, no, we're not in the vein of thwarting evil to protect someone's life, someone comes and says, hey, where's your wife?
• 30:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Is your wife in the house?
• 30:08
  Emeal Zwayne: And you know that by your saying you know what anything else they know immediately.
• 30:13
  Emeal Zwayne: You're not answering the question and they know you're a Christian, so they know you don't, so I do.
• 30:16
  Emeal Zwayne: I wrestle with that.
• 30:18
  Oscar Navarro: So the scriptures appear to give us a helpful understanding, through example, of what this looks like, and I'm gonna share these biblical situational ethics.
• 30:28
  Oscar Navarro: And then I think we need to revisit what does it mean to lie?
• 30:32
  Oscar Navarro: And so the biblical situational ethics there's at least three, actually kind of four, but I'm gonna share three.
• 30:38
  Oscar Navarro: There's the time that Pharaoh demands that Hebrew midwives kill all newborn babies in Exodus one.
• 30:46
  Oscar Navarro: And the midwives don't.
• 30:48
  Oscar Navarro: When they're asked about it, they say that the Egyptian women are vigorous and they gave birth before they arrive.
• 30:54
  Oscar Navarro: They lie to Pharaoh and God blesses them and gives them families.
• 31:01
  Ray Comfort: Cause they didn't wanna commit murder.
• 31:02
  Oscar Navarro: That's right.
• 31:02
  Oscar Navarro: Mark already brought up another one Rahab the prostitute that protects the Israelite spies.
• 31:08
  Oscar Navarro: And James two goes beyond doesn't even call it a sin, doesn't say that God passes over it or God makes a situation for it.
• 31:16
  Oscar Navarro: He actually uses that lie as an example of good works that overflow from true saving faith.
• 31:22
  Oscar Navarro: Isn't that interesting?
• 31:24
  Oscar Navarro: Or what about the time that God tells Samuel to go and anoint the successor of King Saul?
• 31:29
  Oscar Navarro: Samuel fears that the King would find out and kill him, and so the Lord tells Samuel to take a sacrifice and tell Saul that he's simply there to make a sacrifice.
• 31:39
  Oscar Navarro: In other words, god tells Samuel to be cagey about the reason why he's in that particular situation.
• 31:47
  Oscar Navarro: So now we have to go back to the question what does it mean to lie, to bear false witness?
• 31:53
  Oscar Navarro: And I think it means.
• 31:55
  Oscar Navarro: Well, actually, who cares what?
• 31:57
  Oscar Navarro: I think the commentators that I've been reading I care what you think, Oscar Thank you.
• 32:02
  Oscar Navarro: The commentators point out that three things.
• 32:04
  Oscar Navarro: The first thing is that lying is bearing false witness, which means to witness against the reputation and dignity of another person.
• 32:15
  Oscar Navarro: Anytime we use words, that is a misrepresentation of the dignity of another person.
• 32:23
  Oscar Navarro: And that's people in our lives, that's political figures, that's other Christians that were like, where we just assume their system of belief or understanding.
• 32:34
  Oscar Navarro: Deuteronomy 19,.
• 32:36
  Oscar Navarro: If a malicious witness arises to accuse a person of wrongdoing, then both parties shall come before the Lord.
• 32:43
  Oscar Navarro: Right, and you have to.
• 32:44
  Oscar Navarro: It goes on to say you shall purge the evil from your midst.
• 32:47
  Oscar Navarro: Okay, so people's reputation on some instantiated claims.
• 32:52
  Oscar Navarro: The second one is making a promise that you don't intend to keep letting your yes be yes and your no be no.
• 33:00
  Oscar Navarro: And the third example that they give is intentionally misleading or exaggerating.
• 33:06
  Oscar Navarro: There's this story in the Old Testament where, in the marketplace, people would weigh scales in their favor, so that as they traded, the scales would be weighed in their favor and they would get more out of the exchange than they deserve.
• 33:21
  Oscar Navarro: And God hates that kind of behavior.
• 33:25
  Oscar Navarro: And so holding back information that another person deserves to know is another form of this kind of lie that God intends for us to stay away from Deceitfulness.
• 33:38
  Oscar Navarro: Deceitfulness, that's good.
• 33:39
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, exactly, and I think I would say that this is a place to be really cautious and that I think that the circumstances are very, very rare, few and far between, where not speaking the truth as it is is acceptable.
• 33:59
  Mark Spence: And.
• 33:59
  Emeal Zwayne: I think it would be in those rare circumstances and again, maybe I'm wrong, but that has been my and, as we've talked about it, someone's coming in.
• 34:06
  Emeal Zwayne: They wanna rape your wife, tell us where she is or where is she, or whatever A situation where the only way you're going to save your wife is by not telling them the truth or by intentionally misleading them or rebuking them.
• 34:19
  Mark Spence: Or, once again, I don't see why I need to play by the rules of the people that come inside out.
• 34:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and you don't need to.
• 34:25
  Emeal Zwayne: But I think there could be certain circumstances where they're just gonna know by you not giving them an answer or whatever, and where we would have to be misleading in order to save someone.
• 34:35
  Ray Comfort: Or if you say to the Nazis, it depends on what your definition of a Jew is.
• 34:41
  Emeal Zwayne: And so I think I mean I personally lean toward the Lord would not attribute that to you as a lie, in the same way that he wouldn't attribute murder to you as you take the life of another person who's trying to kill your family member, or in self-defense.
• 34:59
  Mark Spence: See, the only danger that I see with that perhaps easy is we're moving the goalpost.
• 35:04
  Mark Spence: Perhaps and I throw in the word perhaps right, because then it becomes subjective and up to each individual to decide.
• 35:10
  Mark Spence: Well, I'm trying to protect right.
• 35:12
  Mark Spence: That is what I'm attempting to do.
• 35:15
  Mark Spence: Remember, as we look at scripture, all the trouble in the world.
• 35:20
  Mark Spence: It began with a lie, it began with what seems to be a half truth.
• 35:27
  Mark Spence: And is there an error?
• 35:31
  Mark Spence: By falling back in, just simply trusting that God is going to be my defense, that he is my shield, that he is my buckler, we can say, as I don't remember which one of you said it, well then, they're gonna know by default that what's actually happening.
• 35:48
  Mark Spence: And I go, yeah, like I don't know and I don't care.
• 35:52
  Mark Spence: Once again, I'm not playing by their rules.
• 35:55
  Mark Spence: Why do I have to play by their rules?
• 35:57
  Mark Spence: Do I either trust that all my days were written, that my wife's, all of her days were written, before there are one of them?
• 36:02
  Mark Spence: I don't know why I necessarily have to go down that route.
• 36:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it's a good point, mark.
• 36:08
  Emeal Zwayne: I just don't see that it's a good point.
• 36:10
  Emeal Zwayne: It's a good point and I think and that's why I said it's a slippery slope we have to be very, very careful.
• 36:15
  Ray Comfort: Is it a?
• 36:15
  Emeal Zwayne: matter of conscience.
• 36:16
  Emeal Zwayne: I think so.
• 36:17
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean again, I think that what Mark is saying is noble and there's that element and aspect that we have to examine and explore, but I think that I personally I wish I'm never in that situation, but I don't think I would struggle if I was faced with a situation like that and I intentionally misled someone who was going to commit evil.
• 36:42
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, who's gonna be, you know carry out evil or harm against someone else.
• 36:46
  Emeal Zwayne: So I don't think the Lord would have faulted Corey Tamboom and her family if they lied to the Nazis to save all those Jews and, honestly, I don't think he would have defined it as a lie as what I'm saying, because if it is a true lie, in accordance with the reality of what a lie is and how God attributes it, then it's wrong no matter what.
• 37:08
  Emeal Zwayne: But I don't think he would have defined that and attributed it as a lie.
• 37:11
  Emeal Zwayne: I could be totally wrong, but that's been my perspective.
• 37:14
  Mark Spence: So once again, the thing that I'm hesitant here is we're moving the goal line right.
• 37:20
  Mark Spence: It becomes subjective to each individual.
• 37:22
  Mark Spence: I have a family member who was molested by her father.
• 37:27
  Mark Spence: I have another family member that came along and said that was her recollection when she was little.
• 37:34
  Mark Spence: She remembers being molested, so she had asked another family member about that.
• 37:39
  Mark Spence: And I had a close family member that came along and said I know who it was.
• 37:44
  Mark Spence: It was a different family member.
• 37:47
  Mark Spence: He took the blame himself so that she could think well of her dad who actually was the one that molested.
• 37:54
  Mark Spence: He subjectively now came up with that and then he had to rape the consequences of that as she had gotten older because she knew from she was little that it was somebody else, when it really in reality wasn't.
• 38:07
  Mark Spence: So when we start moving things around and helping out the situation, I'm saying that's very dangerous, because why is your subjective experience any better or more valid than a different individual who comes up with whatever thing they want to come up with?
• 38:25
  Mark Spence: What about?
• 38:25
  Ray Comfort: the midwives.
• 38:26
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, I like that you're making a clear distinction, because you're absolutely right.
• 38:35
  Oscar Navarro: I don't think the scriptures are saying that lying is a matter of subjectiveness and I don't think that the scriptures make it clear that lying is a matter of personal self-gain.
• 38:47
  Oscar Navarro: That is not what God intends.
• 38:50
  Oscar Navarro: I think lying is an objective thing, but I think it's one thing and not another thing is what I'm saying.
• 38:56
  Oscar Navarro: So I think as we talk about these biblical situational ethics like Rahab and the midwives and things of that nature, I think it's important to distinguish, to cut through it and to understand where it is.
• 39:08
  Oscar Navarro: And that's where I think the commentator talking about defining, bearing false witness, promises you don't intend to keep and intentional misleading or exaggerating to tip scales in your favor.
• 39:19
  Oscar Navarro: I think those are distinct, objective reasons and I think I love what you're doing here, mark, because the sinful nature that we have is to begin to take those situational ethics and go ah, let me apply that to my taxes, let me apply that to this situation over here in the workplace, to the conversation I'm having with my wife about what I was really doing last night, and so we can so easily take God's objective examples and take and turn it into subjective self gain.
• 39:55
  Mark Spence: So I love what you're doing.
• 39:56
  Mark Spence: I absolutely love the way you had worded that.
• 39:58
  Mark Spence: I mean because it's easy to think that how many millions of dollars are given towards abortion each year from the government.
• 40:06
  Mark Spence: So somebody wants to come along and say, well, listen, I don't want to give my money towards an evil government that's going to put money towards murdering people.
• 40:13
  Mark Spence: Instead, I'm going to put that money and I'm going to give that same money, give it to my church or give it to the widows in need.
• 40:20
  Mark Spence: Right that they subjectively now come up with that.
• 40:23
  Mark Spence: It's just.
• 40:24
  Mark Spence: We've got to be careful.
• 40:25
  Mark Spence: Absolutely.
• 40:26
  Emeal Zwayne: It's a slippery slope and again, my perspective if and it's something I'm still working through, I wrestle with it, but if it is something acceptable in certain situations, they would be extraordinarily rare, I believe, and of a massive magnitude.
• 40:43
  Emeal Zwayne: And I would say as well, we do have to be careful too, in that sometimes we'll cite certain instances of how God worked in a certain situation and we got to be careful not to also say, well, because of that, then we can do that.
• 40:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Some people will point to it Well, look, Deborah was used by God as a woman leader, and okay, but what are the circumstances behind that?
• 41:03
  Emeal Zwayne: How does that apply in that context?
• 41:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Or others will say, well, look, you know, Jose, he married a prostitute.
• 41:10
  Emeal Zwayne: And so we can go.
• 41:12
  Oscar Navarro: We just we have to be careful, you know, with that as well, and so, and speaking of being careful, let me shift gears a little bit, because I think this is something that could challenge all of us.
• 41:20
  Oscar Navarro: I think it's so funny to it's not funny, it's unfortunate to me that when we start talking about public figures, all of our moral absolutes become very muddled and subjective, right Like we show patience and grace and hospitality and and charitable to the person who lives next to us, to the person who we go to church with, but then when it comes to a public figure, we're so quick to to demean them, belittle them or assume or repeat words that we hear from other people and assign stuff to them.
• 41:52
  Oscar Navarro: And so what I'm talking about is like, whether it's it's public figures, whether it's whatever public figures, whether political or religious, so often we will retweet unverified information, we will repeat unverified information, and it's always the unverified information that fits our narrative.
• 42:11
  Oscar Navarro: And we have to be really careful with that because we can get caught up in the same thing Anytime.
• 42:17
  Oscar Navarro: I bear if I speak against another person out there because I hear some conspiracy theories, some unverified claim and that's a lie, I participate in that lie.
• 42:28
  Oscar Navarro: I have to be really careful with my words, not only with my words to my neighbors, but also with my words, as it pertains to public figures.
• 42:38
  Emeal Zwayne: That's good.
• 42:38
  Emeal Zwayne: So, ray, what do you think of all this?
• 42:40
  Emeal Zwayne: What's your perspective on it?
• 42:41
  Emeal Zwayne: I think of all the Scots incredible, powerful quote.
• 42:47
  Ray Comfort: Familiar with it?
• 42:47
  Ray Comfort: No, yes, you are, prove it.
• 42:50
  Ray Comfort: I know what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
• 42:54
  Mark Spence: You've heard of that very fast.
• 42:55
  Mark Spence: Oh yeah, of course, and it's so true.
• 42:58
  Ray Comfort: You deal with an officious spider when you deceive people, because it's going to come back on you.
• 43:03
  Ray Comfort: You're going to get caught up in a web.
• 43:04
  Ray Comfort: Mark Twain said if you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.
• 43:10
  Emeal Zwayne: That's good.
• 43:11
  Ray Comfort: Isn't that true, and I identify with that.
• 43:14
  Ray Comfort: When I share anecdotes when I'm preaching, if I've had an experience, I just relate my experience.
• 43:20
  Ray Comfort: It doesn't make me nervous, I don't forget anything, it's just this experience I had that relates to the gospel, and I just share it.
• 43:25
  Ray Comfort: It's wonderful, it's freeing.
• 43:26
  Ray Comfort: But if I have to make up an anecdote or something that didn't actually happen, it's a completely different story.
• 43:33
  Ray Comfort: And so speak the truth and you don't have to remember anything.
• 43:36
  Emeal Zwayne: Amen.
• 43:36
  Emeal Zwayne: I love it when experts talk about all the different cues that people give when they lie the body language and the twitching.
• 43:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Is that what you do?
• 43:48
  Ray Comfort: Ray, the twitching the eyes, the not blinking, the moving in the hands, breathing, that's another sign someone's lying for their breathing.
• 43:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it's breathing, it's the.
• 43:59
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, there's just all these weird things that people start doing and again, it's because of conscience.
• 44:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Their eyes shift, they start looking in another direction, they start using filler words and yeah, and I just watched a video- they repeat the question to abide time to formulate an answer.
• 44:17
  Oscar Navarro: They repeat the question.
• 44:19
  Ray Comfort: What's my what's?
• 44:21
  Emeal Zwayne: my name?
• 44:22
  Ray Comfort: No, it's like how many lies have I told?
• 44:26
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, so.
• 44:28
  Emeal Zwayne: So yeah, friends, god despises lying.
• 44:32
  Emeal Zwayne: It is an abomination to him.
• 44:34
  Emeal Zwayne: We have to recognize that.
• 44:36
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, the Lord wants those who walk with him to walk uprightly, in truth.
• 44:41
  Emeal Zwayne: Psalm 1017,.
• 44:42
  Emeal Zwayne: He who works deceit shall not dwell within my house.
• 44:45
  Emeal Zwayne: He who tells lies shall not continue in my presence.
• 44:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Proverbs 99, a false witness will not go unpunished and he who breathes out lies will perish.
• 44:56
  Emeal Zwayne: And again it's been referenced Revelation 21,.
• 44:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Eight, that liars will have their part in the lake of fire.
• 45:02
  Emeal Zwayne: And so so think about that, you know, examine your life, because there are some believers that profess Christ and yet they allow themselves to get swept up into that, for for the sake of their reputation or for the sake of getting themselves out of unfavorable circumstances.
• 45:18
  Emeal Zwayne: And those who know and love God have his truth upon their tongue.
• 45:24
  Emeal Zwayne: We need to be truth tellers and to speak the truth and listen.
• 45:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Our kids are watching, they're watching, you know, the podcast, the living waters.
• 45:35
  Emeal Zwayne: But you know I mean seriously when you think about the cues that kids get from their parents.
• 45:40
  Emeal Zwayne: Someone calls tell them.
• 45:42
  Ray Comfort: I'm not here, yeah.
• 45:43
  Ray Comfort: You know, what television does that all the time?
• 45:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh yeah.
• 45:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Even the Andy Grover show, which I absolutely love, is filled with Andy lying, you know, justifying, not telling the truth, and I think, I think that the answer, that what we started with earlier, that we get from people typically, when you ask them how many lies have you told you, oh, so many.
• 46:00
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, they're not ready to say that about other stuff, I commit adultery all the time, you know, or whatever, until you spiritualize and talk about lust.
• 46:07
  Emeal Zwayne: But I'm just saying like, I think, because they answer that way, it's a, it's a clue that they feel, oh, it's acceptable, yeah, everybody does it, so it's okay.
• 46:17
  Emeal Zwayne: It's not okay, it's an abomination in the sight of the Lord.
• 46:21
  Emeal Zwayne: And so let's speak truth and delight in the Lord, and doing it, amen, amen.
• 46:25
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, friends, there you have it.
• 46:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Don't forget Ray's wonderful book, undeniable.
• 46:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh no, was that the right one?
• 46:35
  Emeal Zwayne: Am I in the wrong place?
• 46:36
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm in the wrong place.
• 46:37
  Emeal Zwayne: Something about Moses.
• 46:39
  Ray Comfort: Was it?
• 46:39
  Ray Comfort: Oh, wasn't scientific facts in the Bible?
• 46:41
  Ray Comfort: No, that was the other one.
• 46:42
  Ray Comfort: No, I got it.
• 46:44
  Ray Comfort: Here's your thing.
• 46:45
  Oscar Navarro: It's no, it's Moses Down's down now.
• 46:46
  Oscar Navarro: You were just there.
• 46:47
  Emeal Zwayne: No, that's not the one.
• 46:47
  Emeal Zwayne: I got all these different things here.
• 46:48
  Emeal Zwayne: It's show us Moses, or whatever.
• 46:52
  Ray Comfort: We've got to go back to our.
• 46:53
  Ray Comfort: We have no idea what we're doing.
• 46:56
  Emeal Zwayne: I know, seriously, let them hear Moses looking to Moses to point people to Jesus.
• 47:01
  Emeal Zwayne: Don't forget to get that.
• 47:03
  Emeal Zwayne: And Living Waters Mug and evidence, study Bible, all of the waterscom podcast, all of the waterscom.
• 47:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Tell us all that good stuff.
• 47:08
  Emeal Zwayne: And don't forget the contest.
• 47:10
  Emeal Zwayne: Do something with the mug and Oscar will give you a thank you for joining us.
• 47:17
  Ray Comfort: No, that's not the price.
• 47:19
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you for joining us, friends.
• 47:21
  Emeal Zwayne: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast.
• 47:26
  Mark Spence: the ultimate source, no the ultimate cure for insomnia.