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Why Your Child Can’t Sleep (Nervous System Signs Parents Miss) · Rooted Conversations with Mitch Webb

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All right, guys, welcome to the Rooted Conversations
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podcast. I am your host, Mitch Webb. Today we
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have a very special guest, Ms. Irene Guz. She's
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from one of my local holistic practitioner groups
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here in Holly Springs, North Carolina, close
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to Raleigh, North Carolina. And she is a postpartum
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doula and sleep coach. So I know that a lot of
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the clients that I'm working with are dealing
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with nervous system dysregulation. are dealing
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with sleep issues. And when I heard that she's
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a sleep coach, I wanted to get her in. She specializes
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in helping babies who are having trouble sleeping
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or helping the parents of the children that are
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having trouble sleeping. And what she was telling
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me offline is that she ends up helping the parents
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a lot. And she's already given me all types of
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cool information and tips. I had to hit record
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before we talked for an entire three hours before
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we got on here. So Irene, welcome to the podcast.
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I'm so excited to have you here. Thank you, Mitch.
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I'm really excited to connect and talk about
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nervous system stuff. I love geeking out on this.
1:04
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I feel like nervous
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system regulation and sleep goes hand in hand
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for me. I had insomnia for 20 years. I still
1:13
deal with insomnia here and there. It's gotten
1:15
so much better because of the nervous system
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work. And kind of like we were talking about
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offline, there's so much information when it
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comes to sleep and there's biohacking and all
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of these things that can really it sounds good
1:28
on the surface but can kind of keep us in a pattern
1:31
of not sleeping and trying to fix something that's
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not broken. So I'm glad you're here to kind of
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clear that up. But to get started, you know,
1:40
there's got to be a backstory of someone who
1:43
becomes a sleep coach. Like, were you a lifetime
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sleep expert or was there a time when sleep was
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tough? You know, how did you get into this work?
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Yeah, so my work was inspired 19 years ago. by
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my oldest son who was not sleeping. And there
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were so many aha moments that happened for me
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years later, but of course, hindsight is 2020,
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always. But when he was born, I didn't know or
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understand anything about newborn sleep. And
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he was like grunting, doing all this stuff. And
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I didn't realize at the time that that was actually
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sleep communication. sleep communication like
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grunts and kicking and things like that that
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the body does that is doing while they're sleeping
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and because babies actually have a lot of active
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sleep they spend over 50 % of their time in active
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sleep and I think as adults we don't really understand
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active sleep and deep sleep and really understanding
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what that looks like and feels like and so it
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can be really confusing well here's my son grunting
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doing all his things then i'm walking doing miles
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in my house and the moment i would try to put
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him down he'd pop up and one of the things i
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realized i was like i never coached him or taught
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him like to learn to accept his sleep environment
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so then i was just like rocking and doing all
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the things for him and you know what babies actually
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need that like babies need to learn what it is
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to be soothed and to be regulated the challenging
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part was that I was not regulated and so and
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I didn't know that I was dealing with intrusive
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thoughts at the time my husband had a pretty
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major surgery right around his birth and so like
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that whole first I would say year for my son
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Connor was blur and I didn't know like that the
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way I was showing up and taking care of everyone
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around me but myself was really the impact of
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keeping me sleepless and I had all these anxious
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thoughts so even if and when he was sleeping
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I was waking up in the middle of the night I
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mean it was just a nightmare so that's kind of
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how it felt when I became a parent and then I
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was a schoolteacher and I was like well what
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can I do to get out of the classroom but still
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be teaching and so I got trained as a sleep coach
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with the sleep lady and I was part of her first
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50 cohort members and it was just amazing and
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I learned so many things about the body and it
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was like the beginning of like my healing journey
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of recognizing like that I was probably dealing
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with postpartum depression and anxiety. I didn't
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have a support system. I didn't know and understand.
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What was happening in my body and how to take
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care of myself as I was trying to take care of
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my little one? That's such a an interesting Correlation
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between what I see so much. I mean, I feel like
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nervous system regulation sleep Talking about
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you being dysregulated as the parent not understanding
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the accepting the sleep environment understanding
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our intrusive thoughts how our dysregulation
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is affecting others and really I think it's amazing
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to recognize that it takes a lot of awareness
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to slow down and see that and then to want to
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attune and learn how to help someone else because
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you know that we know that we help our family
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our kids our friends and people that we love
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that that ripples out I want to circle back and
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understand what does it mean to accept our sleep
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environment? Accept our sleep environment. So
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your body is all about having a safe sleep or
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like a safe safety check, right? So most of us
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don't realize that the first thing our body is
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scanning for is safety and security. Sure. And
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so if I don't know what that environment looks
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like, so you just drop a baby in a bassinet or
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put them in a pack and play or lay them down
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somewhere they're like what I'm not in my mom
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or dad's cozy arms like no one's holding me I
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don't know and understand what that feels like
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so it's important to think about how do I practice
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that with my child for example I also work with
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toddlers and preschoolers so sometimes we want
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them to sleep in a room by themselves, but they've
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never had a chance to practice what it felt like
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to actually be by myself and feel safe in an
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environment. And so oftentimes I encourage parents
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to think, I don't know if you've ever heard of
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like a yes space. Tell me, I mean, I can think
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of certain, I think of immediately when you say
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accept the environment of, I just went on vacation
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that first night of sleep, half your brain is
6:34
awake and it's trying to figure out what's going
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on. Is that similar to a child that hasn't slept
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on their own? Would that be like a correlative?
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Yeah. Think about when you went on vacation,
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did you go around the room, like check the bed,
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go to the bathroom, look around? That's what
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I want to know next. Like what are the things
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that we can do? Like if someone's listening to
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this, I am all about accepting, right? Accepting
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our sensations, our symptoms, all of that. One
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of the most impactful things about Ben from our
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nervous system this year, how do we accept a
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sleep environment if, you know, if we want to
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go into our bedroom tonight and do that? Yeah,
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so think about it. Like you go to a hotel for
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traveling. You look in your environment. You're
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checking everything out. You're actually allowing
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your body to assimilate and become like aware
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of the environment and be like, Hey, this is
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okay. This is safe for you to let go and drift
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off to sleep because biologically that's what
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happens with sleep. Like you drift off and let
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go because your body feels safe and secure. The
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challenging part is let's say you're a child
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and you've never had an opportunity to practice
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that and you just travel and you're expected
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to just sleep in a pack and play. That sounds
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like pressure to me. That's a lot of pressure.
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And so now all of a sudden my body's on alert.
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I'm like, oh no, that's not going to happen.
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So like literally what would happen is I would
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walk through the door. My son was very alert
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and very aware. And I never practiced with him
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like what it looked like to just be in that room.
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We changed his diaper. We went to sleep in there.
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But like, did I actually take time to play and
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like let him like take in his environment, what
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he was actually seeing. And so it's really about
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No, it's just really about learning how to slow
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things down. And so a yes space actually is that
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opportunity to create that opportunity for children
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to become safe and secure without an adult always
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present. It's not about independence. It's not
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about having children just like sleep independently,
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learn to play independently. It's really about
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them feeling confident like, hey, I can manage
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this space and I'm okay. And I think about for
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adults who probably are struggling with sleep,
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like, did we have that communicated to us along
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the way? Or were we just thrown into those situations
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and had to figure it out? So what comes to my
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mind, you know, in nervous system work, we do
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orient, are you familiar with that term? It sounds
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like kind of the assimilating to... Yeah, that's
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when you say have this yes environment, it's
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like I would think orienting So what I'm gonna
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do in that situation if I was you know, just
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giving an example help me here build it out I
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would lay now. I also think of myself going to
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bed. I'm in a new home I've been here for about
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a year and for about the first six months We
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turn off the EMF stuff at night time and so it's
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super dark walking to my room and it's dark and
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I'm walking in there and I don't really know
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the space so much and I'm kind of like. Like
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are there ghosts over here? You know, like I
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feel myself getting kind of afraid. Maybe I turn
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off the lights and I hop in bed. Maybe I step
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on something. It's uncomfortable and I get in
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bed. I can feel this like fear feeling that almost
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makes me kind of laugh as an adult, but I can
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see how can I optimize this? I don't like that
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word anymore, but how can I improve this environmental?
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Yes, and that would be I'm going to use my senses.
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I'm going to feel I have a chili pad that I sleep
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on. I'm going to feel that cold bed because that
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feels really good to me. I'm going to cuddle
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up with my pillows. Maybe I'm going to look around
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the room a little bit using my eyes and hear
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what's going on. So I would orient using all
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the senses that I can think of to send this signal
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to my nervous system that it's safe. Yeah. And
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Mitch, as you're saying that, it makes me wonder
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if you would just need to slow down. Because
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I'm just wondering like you're like I'm going
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so fast right and like I'm stepping on something
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you know and just sometimes recognizing like
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do you set up your environment in advance looking
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at it with lights on so you can see it okay so
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that when it's like lights are out or dimmed
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we can understand it better. So it's the little
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thing, like I think of them as like little sleep
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nuances. It's the little details for everybody
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in their routines that's important to reflect
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on. You know, like what is working, what's not
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working to help our body sleep. And children
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are very aware and very sensitive to that, which
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then makes very aware and sensitive adults. Wow.
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you know and so just sometimes slowing down and
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recognizing what am I expecting of my body on
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how to adjust to that. Okay so let's slow it
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down then so if I was going to slow it down that
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I'm going to go maybe I'm going to go turn on
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my chili pad and cut on a little night light
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type thing so that when and I'm going to look
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around the room and just kind of check things
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out. And I'm going to use all the orienting stuff
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that I just talked about. Maybe I'm feeling the
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cold hardwood floors. So I'm noticing that temperature.
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I'm looking around my room. Maybe I'm, what is
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it called? Like throw back my bed a little bit
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so that when I can, I can just kind of hop in
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and I'm checking all that. I'm looking at the,
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do I have the pillow that I like? I like a body
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pillow as well. And then maybe I'm going ahead
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and turn on my sound machine. I'm in the room
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listening to that a little bit. And we're talking
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about like one or two minutes. It doesn't have
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to be elaborate, it sounds like. It does not.
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What you've just done is you've communed physical
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cues to help your body know this means it's okay
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to go to sleep. So when you layer in those things
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like the sound machine, the chili pad, you know,
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it's going to look different for everybody. It
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does not have to be elaborate. those things could
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help but it's one of those things like you do
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that predictability predictably every night so
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your body knows hey it's time to go to sleep
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but if you keep mixing it up every night oh then
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your body's like confused your body's like wait
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wait what are we doing here you know so sometimes
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parents are like do we need to experiment and
12:58
change the bedtime routine and even adults i
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recommend pick a routine that you feel like i
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can follow through with this consistently Whether
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I'm here at home or even on the go. Wow, that's
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the thing that it's just like, hey, like I'm
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going to use, for example, with children, like
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a lot of times I'll say, like, you know, they're
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going to have like their swaddle or a sleep sack
13:23
or a blanket, depending on their age, the sound
13:26
machine, a book they read and then their sleep
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space. That's really it. Mm hmm. And if I do
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anything else for me and I like to. listen to
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an audio book for maybe 15 or 20 minutes right
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before I fall asleep. I'd probably make it there
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10 minutes most of the time. Here's the thing
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too. I think, and I'm constantly going to be
13:47
taking the child thing and bring it to my clients.
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I think this is a way because I know that my
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clients are going to have activation. Maybe they're
13:58
experiencing anxiety or. they're nervous about
14:01
sleep, and this is a way to establish a routine
14:04
that's establishing safety that's not elaborate
14:07
that when repeated I imagine we can go to sleep
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even when we have anxiety. Absolutely. So oftentimes
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we think about like what are the strategies that
14:18
are going to help us sleep? That's where our
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brains go automatically because we're trying
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to fix it. The goal is never to fix. Let's unpack
14:28
that. What's it look like to fix sleep, and what
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does that do to people that are wanting to get
14:33
it? Yeah. One of the big mistakes that people
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make around sleep is they focus so much on sleep.
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The more you focus on it, the worse it gets.
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Sometimes for children, they'll talk about sleep
14:47
training. Even for adults, it's like that sleep
14:49
hygiene, which is an important piece. But if
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we focus too much on that, We're like, I have
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to have the right routine. We're bringing in
14:59
all this judgment onto it. We're coming in with
15:03
fear and stress. That's not going to help us
15:07
sleep. The other thing too that happens is that
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we're focused on sometimes, those are elements
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that might be part of our tools and strategies,
15:16
but the goal that we want to focus on is that
15:18
safety and security. Are we feeling satiated?
15:23
Are we able to settle and feel comfortable? Satiated
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as in like full, like hungry or satiated in a
15:30
different way? Satiated as in full, like we ate
15:33
well, we've eaten well because feeding and sleep
15:35
regulate our bodies. And so when we have, like
15:39
when we're feeding around the same time as adults,
15:42
when we're sleeping around the same time as adults,
15:44
we're going to feel our best selves because that's
15:46
going to align with our circadian rhythm. And
15:50
the last strategy we want to focus on is sleep
15:52
pressure, making sure that we have enough wake
15:54
time that's going to let us drift off. But the
15:58
challenge that happens, and what you are talking
16:00
about, Mitch, is that people get into the story.
16:03
Like, I'm not going to be able to go to sleep.
16:05
I'm telling myself a story that's not even valid
16:08
and true. This is me. This is me. Let's go here.
16:11
Let's go here. I can hear my mic. Yeah, this
16:13
story will happen where I'm anticipating sleep
16:15
so much. So the goal really should be like we
16:18
should think about our state, like am I setting
16:21
myself up to show up and lead myself to just
16:24
be able to drift off? Like sleep is a biological
16:27
need, like we do just drift off. It takes 15
16:31
to 20 minutes for the body to drift off to sleep.
16:35
Would you call that letting go? To let go I you
16:39
know, sometimes with children I'll even say surrender
16:41
to like really let go because like when children
16:44
are in an active state of sleep when you're reading
16:47
your book You're in like that active state of
16:50
sleep. You're almost like zoning out preparing
16:53
the body to just kind of like and done And we
16:57
don't give ourselves that permission to slow
16:59
down It's such a powerful thing when it comes
17:04
to this work, because if we're in that story,
17:08
if we're anticipating, it just feels like, I
17:11
think you said perfection, and it feels like
17:14
so much pressure, and it's the opposite of the
17:16
sleep pressure we're looking for. The absolute
17:19
opposite. It has to be a let go and be okay.
17:24
Just be. I oftentimes talk a lot about being
17:28
versus doing. Amen, sister. That's a cornerstone
17:31
of my work. And for us doers, it's really hard.
17:35
Me and my therapist, a couple of months ago,
17:37
we're going back and forth laughing, you know,
17:40
how strong this pattern was in me. And, you know,
17:44
because we were talking about being versus doing,
17:46
and I kept going, so being doing, how do I do
17:50
that? And we would laugh, you know, and it's
17:54
like, I came to this conclusion we kind of argue
17:58
back and forth on a debate and it's like I think
18:01
you do that you have to do until you can see
18:05
the pattern and be and let go of all that doing
18:08
like there has to be an education to why am I
18:11
doing all this and how exhausting that is so
18:14
that I can see it so that I can choose something
18:17
new and create a new opportunity to experience
18:19
something new and that's how the brain is going
18:20
to update software. Yeah, what you just said,
18:24
like we have to practice. We can't expect like
18:26
I'm gonna do this one thing and it's gonna be
18:28
the thing that's gonna help me sleep. Like that
18:30
never works out that way. And I oftentimes will
18:35
share that the skill we're working on is learning
18:37
to be still. Yeah, and that's that is tough for
18:41
a nervous system that is like just going going
18:44
going and maybe we're not even aware of it, you
18:46
know when we're in like a Functional freeze you
18:49
may seem the image I love is there's a duck on
18:52
the water and it looks very elegant So what I
18:57
think about is if you, it's over me, I get a
19:00
story going, I'll be feeling activation all day
19:04
long. There's like these little rumination thoughts
19:07
that are coming in, the story that is being built
19:09
that's telling me I don't, I'm not going to sleep
19:11
good. So if somebody is noticing that, how would
19:15
you help them with that? Yeah, so one, I think
19:18
the key is to just have some awareness. And I
19:22
oftentimes will use a framework called BreatheLive.
19:25
okay here we go okay so breathe love was a mantra
19:30
that came up for me during my home daycare days
19:32
because to be honest i was breathing a lot of
19:34
fear stress anxiety because i was like stop doing
19:37
this like what and i was like convinced that
19:39
these children were there placed in my path to
19:42
piss me off so i was like this is what's happening
19:46
but really it was a reframe of recognizing Can
19:51
I breathe love? And breathe was really the opportunity
19:55
to pause. And then L is for listen. O is for
20:00
observe. V is for validate. And E is empower.
20:05
As I was going through my sleep coaching training
20:08
and the work as I was healing, I was learning
20:12
that I really needed to tune in and listen first
20:16
before I did anything. And I needed to pause
20:19
to really just listen and sometimes it was like
20:23
what was happening around me observing the situation
20:26
observing the feelings and emotions that were
20:29
coming up and oftentimes I could be really good
20:32
about naming it for my children but I couldn't
20:34
name it for myself so that was what I needed
20:37
to practice so like I was like well this is easy
20:40
for me to do with you but then like how am I
20:42
showing up because oftentimes this sounds like
20:45
me working with my clients where I can And what
20:48
you're talking about is noticing, is being present,
20:51
listening into my body, into the emotions, into
20:55
the sensations, letting them be there, maybe
20:58
expressing that. And now the body isn't holding
21:01
all of this tension and emotion and being bypassed
21:06
while we connect to someone else. So it's almost
21:08
like we're banning ourselves in that picture
21:10
as well. And we're supposed to be, there's a
21:15
concept called borrowing the wire. and polyvagal
21:18
theory. Have you heard of this? I've heard of
21:20
polyvagal, I don't know, borrowing the wire.
21:22
It basically means in the beginning, let's see
21:25
if I can look at my little chart here, our ventral
21:30
vagal nervous system is not online and so we
21:34
borrow the wire from our parents to regulate,
21:37
but if our parents do not know how to regulate,
21:41
then we're just going deeper into active or higher
21:44
into this kind of going higher into activation,
21:48
and we're both not aware of what's going on.
21:50
So then you have kids that come out very dysregulated,
21:53
and they're working with me later in their life,
21:55
and they are me. Yeah, and so I call that co
21:58
-regulation. Yeah. With little ones, I oftentimes
22:02
will say, you know, if I'm not feeling regulated,
22:04
I'm observing that. I want to validate and at
22:06
least give myself permission to be like, hey,
22:08
I'm not okay. I need to go to the bathroom, I
22:10
need to eat, you know, like sometimes checking
22:13
in on my needs and then being able to empower
22:16
the situation and take action. But then I can
22:20
be with my child because I've made a decision
22:22
of recognizing that and I can come back and also
22:25
figure out how do I take care of myself in this
22:27
moment. And I think what you were saying about
22:30
like meeting those needs, like I think oftentimes
22:32
parents have a hard time figuring out how do
22:35
I take care of myself as I'm also taking care
22:37
of my child. Oh, it has to happen. So breathe
22:40
love was like that mantra like that. Like, oh,
22:43
I'm feeling triggered. Why am I feeling triggered?
22:45
And am I coming from a place of like love and
22:47
learning, which is going to be breathing love?
22:50
Or am I coming from a place of fear, where I'm
22:53
bringing in fear, judgment, and this is where
22:55
I start telling myself a story. I'm like, oh
22:57
no, if you don't go to sleep, if I don't go to
22:59
sleep, what's going to happen? And I'm catastrophizing.
23:02
Yes. And so it's important to stop and think
23:05
about the stories that we're telling ourselves.
23:07
And that breathe love, like when we pause to
23:09
observe, we can ask ourselves a better question
23:12
there. And usually the better question is, what
23:16
do I really need? What does someone need around
23:19
me? Because oftentimes we also can be activated
23:22
when we're in conversation, like this could happen
23:24
with husband -wife and work relations, you know,
23:28
all kinds of circumstances. And so I'm always
23:30
like, am I breathing love? Or am I breathing
23:32
fear? And just sometimes that mantra helps me
23:36
reset. It just helps me reset. So then I'm like,
23:40
oh, like I can reset my body. Like I want to
23:43
choose love rather than fear. So this becomes
23:47
a tool. Like this is like kind of the foundational
23:50
work I work with my parents on. And I think it's
23:52
probably the work you're doing too. but we just
23:55
call it a little something different. Give me
23:57
the acronym one more time because I was trying
24:00
to write that down. I wrote listen. Give me the
24:02
O -V -E. Yeah, listen, observe, validate, and
24:07
empower. And validate is just oftentimes can
24:11
I give myself permission to also exist in this
24:13
relationship because it's like what you were
24:16
talking about like as parents like if you never
24:18
learned to co -regulate, to be with someone in
24:21
these big emotions and if I'm honest like if
24:24
you've ever been to a store and you've seen a
24:25
toddler or preschooler melt down they're pretty
24:28
passionate. And I think as adults we probably
24:32
have that same kind of passion but we've learned
24:34
not to. That was at least my journey. I'm a recovering
24:38
perfectionist, recovering control freak, and
24:41
a lot of that had to do with like what I learned
24:43
about my emotions. Okay, slow that down real
24:47
quick because I kind of get it. You're saying
24:49
when other people have big emotions, it's almost
24:53
like what was that doing to you before? It sounds
24:55
like you moved into this is me and that's them
24:58
and we can both be here in this environment so
25:00
that I'm not blending with them and now I'm getting
25:04
dysregulated because they are instead kind of
25:06
holding space. Yes, now I know how to do that
25:10
before I didn't because my codependency. I just
25:16
want to be in here and fix it and like keep the
25:18
peace you know and become a people pleaser because
25:22
it was uncomfortable because one of the things
25:24
that messaging that I learned growing up was
25:27
like that I'll give you something to cry about.
25:30
Oh yeah, giving me chills. We have to do a trauma
25:33
session after this. And so it was one of those
25:36
things like learning the messaging around crying,
25:38
you know, and for me the work I do with children,
25:41
you know, children will cry because they're trying
25:43
to communicate a need and not all crying is bad,
25:47
but as adults we hear children cry or if we are
25:51
crying like we start apologizing we're like oh
25:53
i'm sorry for crying you know we start having
25:56
these feelings or emotions we don't believe it's
25:59
okay there's a story we've attached to that that
26:02
makes it more challenging and how does this all
26:05
relate to sleep these are the stories that keep
26:07
us up in the middle of the night at like two
26:10
three four o 'clock in the morning because we're
26:12
ruminating on these experiences that, you know
26:15
what, hey, this was a really tough moment. If
26:18
we could just be in that moment and deal with
26:21
it, we can move on and not carry it into the
26:24
night. And I think that's why right now we see
26:28
so much education around in different modalities
26:31
to help heal our bodies so that we can communicate
26:34
more effectively. Wow. You're connecting attachment
26:38
for me in a way that I haven't seen that before
26:41
where I don't have kids. and I can see myself
26:44
like I'm the fun uncle and they always want to
26:47
play with me but when they start getting man
26:50
their emotions can go from like zero to a hundred
26:52
and then back up and and I do feel I notice myself
26:55
getting uncomfortable and I'm recognizing that
26:58
that's like me going oh I want to help you I
27:01
want I want you to be feeling better instead
27:03
of letting them be in their feels and letting
27:06
me more be okay with them being in their fields
27:09
That's huge. And that is the things that we're
27:11
thinking about when we're laying awake at night.
27:15
Yeah. And what you just said about the fun uncle,
27:18
right? Like you're like, I just want to fix it.
27:20
I don't want you to feel that way. And it's like,
27:22
could I just support you? Like, hey, we can do
27:25
hard things together. And it has taken me many,
27:30
many years. This was not like a one quick fix.
27:32
This was a lot of therapy, EMDR, you know, drumming
27:35
therapy, talk therapy. all kinds of things and
27:40
working on learning what it is to rest, which
27:44
is a mindset shift, you know, to be able to show
27:47
up and lead myself better so that I can lead
27:50
others around me. So we got breathe love or breathe
27:56
fear. So if we're someone who is ruminating,
27:59
we're going to recognize those thoughts and instead
28:01
of pushing them away or trying to fix them with
28:05
supplements or protocols or biohacking, we're
28:08
just going to pause. and just notice and recognize
28:11
we're going to be curious, the curious observer,
28:13
right? We're going to listen in. Oh, I'm telling
28:16
that story. We're going to observe that. We're
28:19
going to validate what's going on. Okay, yeah,
28:21
I'm feeling I'm not okay. I'm feeling stressed.
28:24
I'm uncomfortable. And then how would we empower
28:28
from there? So from there you would empower by
28:31
sometimes actually taking an action, you know?
28:34
So it could look like writing it down. Oh yeah,
28:37
okay. you know writing it down like maybe doing
28:40
a gratitude journal and being like thank you
28:43
for this reminder of having this thought you
28:46
know and flipping the script it's a little a
28:50
little mental reframe kind of thing changing
28:53
the story that we're telling ourselves because
28:56
oftentimes too like if we start to bring in judgment
28:59
on like whatever is bringing us fear then it
29:02
feels like we are trying to avoid it but we actually
29:05
want to acknowledge it And then decide we're
29:09
going to move forward. Okay. So let's do me as
29:12
an example, because this is totally me. So if
29:14
I'm ruminating, anticipate, I've got a story
29:18
where I'll start doing that first thing in the
29:20
morning where I'm like, oh man, you know, and
29:22
I can easily go into all the things that I know
29:25
about sleep. I'm going to get morning sunlight.
29:27
I'm going to, you know, I'll even think about
29:29
how I'm eating throughout the day. But in the
29:31
back of that mind, I'm going to exhaust myself
29:33
with exercise. You know, I'm going to Maybe I
29:37
am gonna journal, but it's like it can become
29:39
this compulsive avoidance type of fixing, optimizing
29:44
thing. So if I were your client and you're knowing
29:46
that, hey, Mitch knows a lot about sleep hygiene
29:49
and zeitgebers and that education is kind of
29:54
getting in the way. He's trying to set up this
29:55
perfect night of sleep and he's got this store
29:58
that he's anticipating not sleeping all day.
30:00
Where would we start with that? Yeah, I would
30:03
say, Mitch, what do you want your day to look
30:04
like? What do you want it to feel like sound
30:08
like when you first wake up? I would love to
30:11
wake up with feeling refreshed Yeah, what would
30:16
refresh look like sound like feel like It would
30:21
it would be that like top that almost like I'm
30:23
excited for the day Like I see the sunlight and
30:27
I'm like, oh man, it's gonna be a great day I'm
30:29
excited. I can't wait to go do my to -do list.
30:32
I get to see Irene on a podcast and I get to
30:35
go play with my dog later and I got these podcasts.
30:39
I got these clients that I'm going to see and
30:42
I'm going to film this video and I see my wife
30:44
at the end of the day and eat a good meal. You
30:47
should tell yourself that better story every
30:49
morning. So all we're doing here in this situation
30:53
is I see what you're saying. So that's a really
30:57
good story to tell myself and anticipate. And
30:59
so I can notice the shit story that I've been
31:02
telling myself and I can just move into this
31:05
other good story. Yeah. I mean, and so sometimes
31:08
like it's like in the morning time, I used to
31:10
wake up like some part of my journey was like,
31:13
right. My kids would run into the room and wake
31:15
me up and I was like, oh, now they were in control
31:20
and I was no longer leading. because I needed
31:25
to decide that I was gonna wake up at a certain
31:28
time to take care of myself so I could show up
31:30
for my kids. Because if I've had bad night after
31:33
bad night, and I'm anticipating that, then I
31:36
will recreate that every single morning. Every
31:39
single morning. And then you, great nights start
31:43
with good mornings. And so how you start your
31:46
day really matters. So I used to be like, oh,
31:50
they're gonna come in here again. And like I
31:51
was already dreading the day and the day didn't
31:53
even start. I was still in bed. So literally
31:57
just the shift that I had was to say today's
32:00
gonna be a good day. Thank you for a new day.
32:04
Like it just, I was like, when I wake up, I'm
32:07
going to tell myself this. This is a better story
32:09
to tell myself. And so it's really not just about
32:13
positive affirmations because like that also
32:15
doesn't always resonate. But it was the reframe
32:20
of like today is a new day. And so I get to do
32:24
this like you were using a lot of language that's
32:26
more empowering. And so like I want to tell myself
32:31
a better story here through this. And even if
32:35
you haven't had a good night of sleep, this still
32:37
applies because something I learned on vacation
32:40
this past week is there was one day where I did
32:42
not sleep at all. I might have gotten like two
32:46
or three hours, but when I let go of what that
32:49
meant for the next day and I just got excited
32:51
about wearing, I was in Wyoming and skiing, I
32:55
had a great day and then I crashed hard that
32:57
night. Cause I just, the sleep wasn't even that
33:01
important. Would you say it's more of my mindset
33:04
and what I'm anticipating in the story that I'm
33:06
telling myself? It really is. It is your state
33:10
of being that triggers so much of that. You know,
33:14
most people like when we have that insomnia,
33:17
right? Like it's there's like this lack of sleep
33:21
or so worried about it that we're making it worse
33:25
instead of better. And I know that like this
33:27
is a very oversimplified. way that we're talking
33:31
about. Well, that's what we're looking for though.
33:32
I think the more complicated we make it, the
33:34
harder it becomes. Now I got to think about it.
33:36
Like, I don't think we should have to think about
33:37
it. It's more like the doing versus being. Yeah.
33:40
I'm like, just show up and be, you know what
33:41
I mean? Like what do you want it to look like?
33:43
And then do more of that. And so like, you know,
33:46
I'll share with you an example of like some tips
33:48
and tools I share with my families to help them
33:51
change their story, to improve their state of
33:53
being. Love it. Love it. Because a lot of times
33:57
like we're going to have conflict. I don't know
34:00
if you have conflict in your day, but we're going
34:01
to have conflict. Conflict in my day? Who doesn't?
34:06
Conflict in the day, it's going to happen. For
34:09
parents who are listening, maybe they're trying
34:11
to get out of the house and getting shoes on
34:13
is really hard, or getting to the table and having
34:15
a meal with somebody can be really hard. Sometimes
34:18
maybe we didn't give ourselves enough time, we
34:20
didn't meal prep, we didn't think through those
34:22
things. Sometimes just coming to a place of in
34:26
that moment, Can I turn on some music? Can I
34:31
turn on some music and have a dance party? Can
34:35
really shift the mood and when we bring in movement,
34:42
it helps change our body. Absolutely. Another
34:45
one that I oftentimes will encourage parents
34:48
to do specifically to help with sleep is grounding
34:52
walks. Like a bare feet kind of thing? bare feet,
34:56
take your shoes and socks off after a zoom or
34:59
after like you've done something at home and
35:02
you're ready to shift the mood into the next
35:06
transition. You know, let's go outside and do
35:08
a grounding walk. Let's take our socks and shoes
35:10
off, walk outside, touch the ground, touch the
35:14
grass, hug a tree. You know, sometimes I'll like
35:17
encourage like raise your hands up, touch the
35:20
sky, you know, give gratitude, shift your perspective.
35:24
These little moments of like two to three minutes
35:28
help your body regulate and take out the pressure,
35:33
the stress that you're putting on yourself. A
35:36
lot of times we only have time to do a two to
35:38
three minute walk around the house. And that
35:42
little by little resets you. So when I was teaching,
35:46
we call those brain breaks. Now I call them mindset
35:50
moments, like can I just be intentional about
35:52
creating this moment where I'm going to reconnect
35:54
with myself, reconnect with my body, and reconnect
35:58
with my child to create connection and cooperation.
36:01
So those little moments can help us propel the
36:05
day because I oftentimes think about it's almost
36:08
like if I had, just because I have a baby bottle,
36:12
but let's imagine this was a soda bottle and
36:14
I was just shaking it all day. And the pressure
36:17
is just building, building, building. And now
36:18
I want to go into sleep. So of course I'm not
36:21
going to be able to, because it's going to all
36:23
explode and just be a mess. But if instead throughout
36:26
the day, I'm like just taking off a little pressure.
36:31
By the end of the night, it's flat. Like I can
36:34
just be and go to sleep. It doesn't have to be
36:37
this like perfect regiment that's going into
36:41
the old pattern. It's these transition moments
36:44
of I talked about this with my clients as well.
36:47
Like if you've had a meeting, and I know for
36:50
me, if I have back -to -back podcast or back
36:54
-to -back meetings, it's draining to be all night.
36:56
Absolutely. And I can get exhausted in between.
36:59
It feels like, man, do I need to go lay down
37:01
and take a nap? But what I found is five minutes
37:05
of awareness and slowing down in the body using
37:10
our senses doing some of those orienting and
37:12
that may look like rain on the cold floor and
37:14
just fill in the cold floor for two to three
37:17
minutes. It's amazing the life that that gives
37:21
and the amount of recovery that we can have in
37:24
those pauses in those transitions throughout
37:27
the day. Yeah, that is a rest practice. Like
37:31
I even recommend like take a nap around the world.
37:34
Other countries, they do practice siestas. I
37:37
heard you, I saw a post where you were talking
37:39
about you've napped every day for how many years
37:43
or something like that? I've been napping since
37:46
my daycare days in 2008 and so my body actually
37:50
knows to wake up right around like 17, 18 or
37:54
19 minutes and so what's interesting is I always
37:58
I encourage everybody because like if you nap
38:01
sometimes naps can take away some of the sleep
38:04
pressure and impact nighttime sleep. Yeah, so
38:07
is that a real thing? Because that's what I hear.
38:10
Are naps good? Are naps taking away from the
38:12
sleep pressure? Sometimes they say they're good,
38:14
sometimes they're not. Obviously, you like them.
38:16
Yeah, I mean, I need it. And I think it's important
38:19
to evaluate what season of life am I in. So for
38:22
parents, they might need to nap. For others,
38:25
sometimes is it like what you were just saying,
38:27
where maybe I just need to take five minutes
38:29
to get horizontal on the cold floor, on the bed,
38:32
just to... Change positioning for my body. So
38:36
a lot of times like I'll just do deep breathing
38:38
or I'll do a little bit of prayer meditation
38:41
and Like I set the alarm for 20 minutes because
38:44
if I sleep more than that then I feel more tired.
38:47
I can sleep every time So I don't even know like
38:51
sometimes I do sometimes I don't it depends what
38:53
my body needed on that day I don't bring in judgment.
38:57
Yeah It was like I'm just choosing to create
39:02
a daily rest and so it's like my boys know that
39:05
if I'm gonna go take a nap that I will surface
39:09
now if my husband does he might not surface we
39:12
don't know what will happen however like because
39:15
it is just a practice and something that I have
39:18
found too is like oftentimes and specifically
39:21
if your audience members our parents, the evening
39:25
time becomes the witching hour. It is very draining
39:27
when you're dealing with people transitioning,
39:30
coming home from work, from school, from day
39:34
events, reconnecting after work, like unloading
39:37
all the stuff. That rest gives you that moment
39:41
to just be present and you've taken off that
39:45
pressure. You know, so for me, it does not impact
39:49
my nighttime sleep. It's really important for
39:52
somebody like if they're struggling with that
39:54
sleep, like to recognize that. But five minutes
39:57
is oftentimes not going to make or break your
40:01
sleep at night. And oftentimes you're just going
40:03
to be in a light state of sleep. Sometimes I'll
40:05
say, just breathe. Don't do anything. Breathe
40:08
during that five minute rest. And it just is
40:11
amazing to see how it can transition things for
40:14
everyone. I think the reason I have questioned
40:19
the nap is because of insomnia, not OCD, but
40:27
it's a therapy. It's like basically they have
40:30
you go to bed. Like if you're getting four hours
40:35
of sleep, let's say they say, okay, if you're
40:37
going to wake up at seven, then you're going
40:38
to go to bed at 3 a .m. You're going to stay
40:40
awake until then to build all of this sleep pressure
40:43
to then reset your circadian rhythm. And you
40:46
don't want to be resting during the day. So if
40:50
you had someone that had severe insomnia like
40:53
that, do you like that protocol? And how do you
40:57
feel about napping with that? Yeah, so I think
40:59
what's going to be most important is for somebody
41:02
to dive into their full day of rhythms and routines.
41:06
Okay. Really look at the stories you're telling
41:09
yourself around them. And reframe them. Do the
41:13
empowering story instead of the rumination story.
41:17
Reframe them. I think that for some people they
41:19
might need to build that sleep pressure. They
41:22
might need to do that for the insomnia protocol.
41:25
That is absolutely one of the best therapies
41:28
that can be done to help with insomnia. However,
41:32
you know, like again, it's important to look
41:34
at the season of life you're in, you know, and
41:37
is that like five minute rest? Like, is it giving
41:39
your body permission to just slow down? Cause
41:42
most of the time what's happening is our bodies
41:44
in this fight or flight stage, we're running
41:47
on cortisol and adrenaline. And that's exhausting.
41:51
That's exhausting. So it's learning how to slow
41:55
down. So that's, we're looking at what are the
41:58
rhythms and routines? Like oftentimes I'll even
42:00
say like, can we just sit down and have like
42:03
a sip slowly moment? Can I just take my cup,
42:07
my water bottle and just feel the bottle? So
42:12
good. Take a moment to like squeeze it and notice
42:15
that. And then with kiddos, I'll even be like,
42:18
let's smell our water. I have lemon in here,
42:21
so. Yeah, using the senses. We're orienting to
42:25
our bottle. We're touching it. We're feeling
42:26
the temperature. We're smelling it. We're tasting
42:28
it. Taking that moment to pause. Notice it going
42:31
down your throat when you're drinking it. Instead
42:34
of scrolling on our phone, anticipating what's
42:38
next, not being present in the moment, trying
42:40
to prevent the worst thing from happening and
42:43
catastrophizing. Yeah. It's one, you got to be
42:47
able to slow down to be able to recognize those
42:50
things. And then when we learn how to do that,
42:52
these moments can be so life -giving. And it
42:55
sounds like the way I would teach, it's not about
42:58
having the perfect protocol. It's about building
43:00
these things into your lifestyle so that it's
43:03
kind of an effortless thing that we pick up and
43:05
put down, especially like you're saying on the
43:07
season of life that we're in. Is this something
43:10
that's supporting me or is this something that
43:13
is taking away from what I want? Yeah, I teach
43:17
families flexible routines You know like so what
43:21
is it that needs to get done? And what do I want
43:24
it to look like sound like and feel like? You
43:27
know and then does that make sense? Doesn't make
43:32
sense for me my body to take some of those next
43:35
steps To be able to look so flexible routine
43:39
meaning. Here's my to -do list, but I'm not gonna
43:41
die if it doesn't happen My routine is I've already
43:45
made some decisions around this is what it looks
43:47
like when I'm feeding my body, when I'm moving
43:50
my body, and when I'm going to sleep. I've made
43:52
these decisions, so I don't have to overthink
43:55
it. Explain that a little bit. What are those
43:58
decisions? What does that look like? Usually
44:02
for feeding my body, oftentimes with children,
44:05
we're going to be eating maybe at the table.
44:07
We're going to be in the kitchen. There's a beginning,
44:10
a middle, and an end of a routine. I think sometimes
44:14
what we don't realize is that this is all happening
44:16
we're just doing stuff right we're living and
44:18
just moving and doing stuff but for children
44:20
like maybe it's putting on a bib sitting down
44:23
at the table you know maybe getting some silverware
44:27
plates setting the table getting that together
44:31
then you have your meal what does it feel like
44:34
look like sound like you know are we talking
44:35
about the the highs and lows of the day? Are
44:38
we giving gratitude of things that happen during
44:40
the day? Notice how I'm layering in some of these
44:43
other regulation tools, these mindset moments
44:45
of like we're bringing in this connection versus
44:49
sometimes there's situations where we're bringing
44:52
in judgment, like are you eating enough? Are
44:53
you still hungry? Do I need to change what I'm
44:55
doing? Now that feels like control and that feels
44:58
stressful. Control and pressure. And so the goal
45:01
is like, let's show up, let's make this enjoyable.
45:04
And then this is the part that I still struggle
45:07
with, that I'm still working on in my routines
45:09
is the closing the routine. Okay. So we ate,
45:13
but now we have to like clean up. But sometimes
45:16
I'll transition to the next part where I'm like,
45:17
I'll just sit down, relax. And then the mess
45:20
is left, you know, versus do I get everybody
45:23
involved in delegate? and partner with everybody
45:26
to help with that cleanup process. So it's sometimes
45:29
looking at the beginning, middle and end of routines.
45:32
And are there any open loops that we haven't
45:35
finished that keep the brain going? So I have
45:38
a lot of times parents are like, if the kitchen's
45:41
not clean, then I'm like trying to put my child
45:43
to bed and like, then that becomes stressful.
45:45
And, and it's like, oh, I have to prepare this
45:47
for tomorrow. So then it's sometimes really looking
45:49
at like, what are my expectations? What do I
45:52
really need to get done? What matters the most
45:55
and like oftentimes if we take like that It seems
45:58
like it's gonna take a lot of time But it really
46:00
usually is only like 10 to 15 minutes to like
46:03
process a routine be like what really needs to
46:05
happen here We realize what we can let go of
46:08
and where we're putting additional pressure So
46:12
okay in this situation the way where I see my
46:14
wife and myself is I like to cook When I get
46:19
up when I get done, that's my time of day to
46:21
kind of relax decompress, I cook, she gets home,
46:25
she likes to clean. And if if like, sometimes
46:30
she'll say, I want to I want to clean tomorrow
46:32
morning. But I know that I want her to go on
46:35
a walk with me in the morning so that we can
46:36
kind of talk. And so in that moment, the flexibility
46:40
would be, hey, you're tired, go sit on the couch,
46:42
I'll knock that out. So we can decompress on
46:45
the couch. And then we get our walk in the morning
46:46
instead of waking up and feeling like this pressure
46:50
to I gotta clean up instead of connect with my
46:52
spouse. Yeah. Could we or could we even do it
46:55
together? Yeah. Yeah. You know, like sometimes
46:57
we forget like, can I do it with you? Because
47:00
sometimes we feel like somebody has to do it,
47:02
you know, and for children, they need somebody
47:04
to do it with them. So they learn so that they
47:07
could do it later when they're adults. Yeah.
47:10
And then they can ask for help when they need
47:11
it. You know, or knowing how to ask for help,
47:14
you know, like, hey, I'm really feeling burnt
47:16
out. Today's been a long day. I don't have the
47:18
bandwidth. So it comes back to how we're communicating.
47:22
Instead of putting that pressure on like, yeah,
47:24
then you do it in the morning. It would be, well,
47:25
let me, let me knock it out for you. Let's do
47:27
it together right now. And then everybody wins.
47:30
Yeah. And I, and I think that we have this expectation
47:33
that like every day is supposed to look the same
47:36
and we're supposed to have the same kind of energy
47:38
every single day and every single moment. And
47:41
that like, we're going to have good days every
47:43
day. And the reality is that there's hard moments.
47:48
and there's hard days and our energy is going
47:52
to ebb and flow as to what we can and can't handle.
47:56
When we can recognize that we're human in that
48:00
process, that's going to also help us have better
48:02
expectations rather than feeling like, oh my
48:05
gosh, I have to do all of this the same every
48:07
single day. That's where that flexibility comes
48:09
in. Yeah. If it's good or bad, there's so much
48:13
judgment and weight on it. But if we can just
48:15
be flexible with it, take it. as information
48:18
and know that it's a good day no matter what
48:20
by focusing on the things that we want and really
48:23
looking at that story in our head. I think that's
48:25
the biggest takeaway I've taken so far is what's
48:28
the story you're telling yourself and how can
48:29
we flip that and make today a good day make today
48:32
just another day not necessarily a good or bad
48:34
day. Yeah just make it a day make it a make it
48:38
a like it's those ordinary moments that oftentimes
48:42
help us sleep better because like we showed up
48:45
and we were present. in that moment. And that
48:48
allows us to just be and let go and drift off
48:51
to sleep. I think about myself. I think about
48:54
my clients and I think about me. They walk in
48:57
and they go, well, how'd your day go? And you
48:59
go, oh, I'm dealing with anxiety. I'm dealing
49:01
with this, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm afraid
49:03
I'm not going to sleep tonight. But what good
49:05
happened? I had some good calls. I had a podcast
49:08
with Irene. I got to see my friend. I had a good
49:10
workout. So it's noticing. It's noticing the
49:14
mindset and the story we're telling ourselves
49:16
constantly and we can be in charge of that and
49:19
change our perception of things. Yeah, the brain
49:23
is doing its job, right? It's protecting us.
49:25
It's going to the negative leg. Oh no, you might
49:28
be in danger. So it's recognizing we have to
49:31
take the lead and shift our perspective. I love
49:35
it. I love it. Okay, selfishly. I want to circle
49:40
back. We got maybe 20 or 15 more minutes here
49:43
and I want to talk about waking up in the middle
49:46
of the night. I know that myself last night before
49:49
we were talking, I had some activation that was
49:54
hanging around and I woke up around like, it's
49:57
usually like between two and four and I wake
49:59
up and there's this big anxiety push or maybe
50:01
we're just waking up and there's nothing really
50:03
there. I think there's, I remember tying this
50:08
back. in my trauma stuff is learning about crying
50:11
it out and being alone and having that terror
50:14
come up in the middle of night. But anyways,
50:17
what are some strategies, what's going on with
50:20
the two to four a .m. wake up? What do you know
50:22
about children and how can we extrapolate that
50:25
to the parents or to the individual who's dealing
50:28
with anxiety? Yeah, so I wanna, if it's okay,
50:31
I'm gonna share my screen. So if someone's listening,
50:34
I might encourage them to maybe come watch our
50:38
video, but I'm going to just do a quick little
50:42
overview. If anyone is dealing with children,
50:46
children sleep cycles. They're about 40 to 50
50:49
minutes and this is happening especially during
50:52
the first five to six years of life. After that
50:55
we get into like 90 minute cycles. We start to
50:58
see that really emerge in the preschool season
51:00
into adulthood and so babies don't actually have
51:03
a circadian rhythm until somewhere between 12
51:05
to 16 weeks. of age so this is where their body's
51:09
producing that melatonin that sleepy hormone
51:12
saying hey it's time to go to sleep which is
51:15
very short -lived in the body and adults oftentimes
51:18
will feel that sleepy hormone and sometimes begin
51:21
to scroll because i don't want to do this you
51:24
know so they'll pick up the phone and just scroll
51:26
but your body was actually communicating to you
51:29
that you're tired so sometimes it's important
51:32
just to maybe notice that in your day and that
51:35
can actually really help you have some awareness
51:37
around what's taking place. But the way I simplify
51:42
like looking at nighttime sleep patterns for
51:45
for children and parents alike is thinking about
51:49
how we go to sleep at the onset of bedtime and
51:52
for children they're typically ready to go to
51:54
sleep between six o 'clock and eight o 'clock
51:57
at nighttime. So this is the bedtime window and
52:00
then they're ready to wake up somewhere between
52:02
six a .m. and 7 30 a .m so working towards a
52:06
consistent wake time actually really helps your
52:09
body create a good natural rhythm and flow to
52:12
start your day and it's really about light exposure
52:15
but what's important to think about is like at
52:18
the beginning of the night you fall into more
52:21
deep sleep so you'll see these like longer um
52:25
sleep patterns going into stage three and stage
52:27
four sleep. Now I know we live in a world with
52:30
all this data and people are tracking their sleep
52:33
and all this and trying to figure out like well
52:35
which sleep stages was was I in last night. I
52:39
oftentimes will recommend like looking at as
52:40
like a whole picture rather than getting so focused
52:44
on like how much sleep like because everybody's
52:46
body is going to be a little bit different in
52:48
what they need. But these yellow and pink sections
52:53
these are light sleep. And what's important to
52:57
know, especially for children, is that when they're
52:59
in light sleep, this is when they sometimes could
53:02
be sleeping with their eyes open. They could
53:05
be zoning out. And this is also for the person
53:09
whose brain is very busy. Like sometimes if you've
53:12
ever like just laid down and zoned out after
53:15
you woke up from that or like had like a yoga
53:18
meditation or something like that, you probably
53:20
feel refreshed. And so this is that light state.
53:25
it's this dreaming state that is occurring. And
53:29
so typically somewhere around two till six in
53:33
the morning, you're in this lighter state of
53:35
sleep. Now, when I'm on a postpartum doula shift,
53:37
I'm with families overnight from 10 to six. I
53:40
will experience babies like every single movement,
53:44
like they're grunting and like and doing all
53:49
of this crazy stuff or like they'll even flip
53:51
their legs up and down or even cry out. And this
53:55
is where I really encourage parents to really
53:57
just pause and listen because sometimes this
54:00
is just sleep communication. Like your body is
54:05
going from like a light state of sleep to a deep
54:07
sleep, bleh, state of sleep. So just being able
54:11
to pause and like notice that for adults, it
54:14
looks like maybe you're adjusting your pillow
54:16
or your blanket and you're kind of in a twilighted
54:19
sleep. So what matters the most here is like
54:22
what you decide to do. That's what I want to
54:25
know about. During these stages and my recommendation
54:29
is often like just keep laying. Just keep laying.
54:33
Keep laying and sleeping. What if we feel like
54:36
we got to go to the bathroom or you know that
54:40
mind just gets going? What do we do with those
54:44
two options? Yeah so I know for me like this
54:48
is the part where like thinking about during
54:50
the day taking a moment to actually be with those
54:53
feelings, those emotions, breathing love through
54:57
the day, being able to like sit in the discomfort
55:00
of, you know, whatever is happening with our
55:02
children or our relationships with our spouses
55:06
or coworkers so that we're not ruminating in
55:10
this evening time. Cause if we don't deal with
55:12
it during the day, then this is when it's coming
55:14
up for us. checked in with my body all day and
55:20
I wonder why it's screaming at me when I lay
55:22
down and go to bed at night. Yeah so it's processing
55:25
here in the middle of the night which is not
55:27
the ideal time so that's where it's important
55:29
to really front load and think about what have
55:32
I done to take care of myself during the day
55:34
from the start of my day to help me through it.
55:38
Sometimes I'll encourage parents to even journal
55:41
in the dark. Like if you have a thought that
55:45
keeps coming up, like I used to have just a spiral
55:47
notebook when this was happening for me frequently
55:49
and I would just have it with a pen or pencil
55:52
ready and I would just write in the dark. It's
55:54
actually pretty entertaining. I wish I would
55:56
have kept it to see in the morning time, but
55:59
at least it would get it off my brain. But one
56:03
of the things that can also be helpful is like
56:05
at bedtime. Sometimes writing out your to -do
56:08
list of the things that you need to wrap up.
56:11
I actually try to encourage parents, especially
56:14
after you're done with your work day, build in,
56:18
okay, I'm getting ready to shut down my laptop.
56:20
Can I write down what I need to do tomorrow so
56:22
I don't have to think about it anymore? That
56:26
is a great way to not have to be thinking about
56:28
it at this two to four or five o 'clock time
56:32
frame. You know, if you have to go to the bathroom,
56:36
you know, I'm going to encourage you to like
56:38
reflect on what does hydration look like for
56:41
you during the day? That's a good one. Most people
56:44
don't realize like you get really thirsty as
56:46
the day goes on. So are you hydrating first thing
56:49
in the morning? And the recommendation is actually
56:51
to do 12 to 16 ounces first thing in the morning
56:54
of water to help wake up your body, wake up your
56:56
organs and set the tone. Oh yeah. I've got my
57:00
little morning water. I got a Mason jar. My routine
57:04
is I throw some creatine in there. I do. I got
57:07
spring water. I throw some electrolytes in there.
57:12
And a lemon, half of a lemon I throw in there,
57:14
which is waking up the digestion kind of thing.
57:16
And it's something I look forward to every morning.
57:18
And I'm crushing those, probably having four
57:21
or five of those, six of those throughout the
57:22
day. And I do try to stop, if I can, before dinner.
57:26
Now, if I do, like last night I did an Epsom
57:30
salt bath before I went to sleep and I needed
57:32
some water. after that, but I see that that can
57:36
definitely help with the nighttime awakening
57:38
if we're not super hydrated going to bed. Yeah,
57:41
and I think what you did there too, you were
57:43
creating a flexible routine. You're like, hey,
57:45
tonight was an epsom salt bath night, so I'm
57:47
going to have a little bit more. You know what
57:49
I mean? So you're not beating yourself up about
57:52
that. You're just like, hey, this is what I do.
57:54
Because that's what happened to me with biohacking
57:57
and all of these rigid routines is, man, if I
58:01
don't I don't know, do my red light session,
58:04
get an Epsom salt bath, drink my water, take
58:06
my supplements, journal, blah, blah. It's like
58:10
we're turning these good, useful, supportive
58:13
things into pressure and dysregulating activities.
58:19
Yeah, pressure will not help you sleep. Trying
58:21
to control and focus only on sleep like that
58:24
will backfire. almost every time. We probably
58:27
need someone like you to be able to see that
58:29
and to zoom out. I mean, just some of these things
58:32
that you're talking about is really helping.
58:34
And going back to the 2 or 4 a .m. thing, this
58:36
is what really helped me. I don't know where
58:38
I heard this as a random sleep doctor talking
58:41
on Instagram, I imagine, and they were talking
58:43
about, think about a snow globe. So whatever
58:47
woke you up, shook your snow globe, and we can't
58:49
control that. Right, so what I used to do is
58:52
run and take a supplement or or a medication
58:54
even at that time and I would be freaking out
58:57
about what I'm doing and that is just Continuously
59:00
keeping the snow globe going because the snow
59:02
globe if you've seen it has to settle before
59:05
we can go back to sleep. That's your heart rates
59:07
got to drop. We can't have these ruminating thoughts.
59:10
And what really helped me was learning to trust
59:13
that my body will fall asleep when it's ready.
59:16
And if it doesn't, that's okay. And so I may
59:19
have a night of dysregulated sleep where I'm
59:22
up and up and up and down a couple of times.
59:24
But if I don't catastrophize about that, I'm
59:27
changing the story and I just trust that my body
59:29
will sleep. I let those thoughts float down the
59:32
river. I think of meditation. Oh, that's a thought.
59:35
Let it go. Let it go. I may feel the orienting
59:39
stuff in my bed. And next thing you know, you're
59:42
asleep. Like this morning, I woke up in the middle
59:44
of night and I did go to the bathroom. I felt
59:47
my feet on the ground. I got back in bed. I worked
59:50
with that activation a little bit. And I was
59:53
telling you before the call, I was kind of tossing
59:55
and turning, thinking I was asleep. or not going
59:59
to sleep, dreaming about not sleeping, and then
1:00:02
woke up and I had went to sleep. So it's like,
1:00:05
is it necessary to continuously tell myself the
1:00:08
story and can I use these tools to teach my nervous
1:00:13
system that it's actually safe to wake up in
1:00:15
the middle of night, that I will go back to sleep
1:00:17
and build this trust, update the software program
1:00:21
that says tomorrow is going to suck. Right. I
1:00:24
mean, I think that the other thing too that Sometimes
1:00:27
we may not realize is you're in that light state
1:00:29
of sleep, which is still a state of sleep, which
1:00:33
still counts. But just because you're twilight,
1:00:36
it doesn't mean like you're not sleeping. So
1:00:38
laying there and just being is still sleep. Right.
1:00:43
That's another thing that I heard too, is like
1:00:45
meditating. I like a program called New Calm.
1:00:49
Have you ever heard of this? I've done the Calm
1:00:52
app. Is that? No, this is different. I think
1:00:54
you're like this. I may be. It's like a, I think
1:00:58
it's similar to a vagus nerve stimulator. I don't
1:01:01
see it like that. You put it on your wrist and
1:01:04
it plays binaural beats, but the algorithm is
1:01:07
so that your brain doesn't recognize it. And
1:01:10
so it gets in trainment. It's taking you from
1:01:13
alpha, theta, down into sleep. But it's more
1:01:19
that twilight sleep like you're talking about.
1:01:21
So it's restorative. It has saved my life on
1:01:24
so many sleepless nights and afternoons when
1:01:26
I need to get 20 minutes. But what I've heard
1:01:29
is, yeah, even if you're someone who's dealing
1:01:31
with severe insomnia, laming and ruminating and
1:01:35
stressing about tomorrow is gonna not be so beneficial.
1:01:38
But if I just lay there and teach my body this
1:01:40
is okay and relax, maybe even listen to a book,
1:01:43
I'm getting restorative, getting some restoration.
1:01:47
Yeah, I mean it really is about the judgment
1:01:50
you bring into it like I do overnight I'm up
1:01:54
with a baby. I'm feeding a baby and Being with
1:01:57
them changing their diaper taking care of them
1:01:59
sometimes I'm even talking or connecting with
1:02:02
a parent if you know mom is nursing or anything
1:02:04
like that and Knowing that like I can come back
1:02:07
and just lay down and still get sleep Wow, you
1:02:10
know and and it's it really took until I could
1:02:14
practice and accept the fact that this is all
1:02:17
sleep. I don't bring judgment into it whether
1:02:20
it's light or deep deep sleep and I think that's
1:02:23
the part that's so hard because our culture especially
1:02:26
in sleep training culture with babies and like
1:02:29
what you were talking about like oh I have to
1:02:31
just leave my baby to cry it out it's not so
1:02:34
much that we're just leaving children to cry
1:02:36
it out because we don't want to just leave them
1:02:38
to cry it out we want to be there with our little
1:02:40
ones to let go. We might have to do another podcast
1:02:43
to talk about that. Oh, I mean, I'm sitting here
1:02:45
thinking, I don't think we barely scraped the
1:02:47
surface today. It's so much good information.
1:02:51
Thank you so much for telling us all this. I
1:02:53
mean, I'm going to be going back and listening
1:02:55
to this podcast. I know you work with parents
1:02:58
and children, but you helped me so much today
1:03:01
with the stuff I've been dealing with. And I
1:03:02
know so many of my clients and listeners are
1:03:05
dealing with the same stuff too. Yeah, and this
1:03:08
is a practice that I coach families on. It's
1:03:12
really about learning to be, and this is the
1:03:14
part that's really frustrating, because it's
1:03:16
like we have to step back and learn to slow down.
1:03:19
I'm originally from Chicago, and so we were very
1:03:21
fast -paced, do, go, go, go, go, and moving here
1:03:25
to North Carolina, learning to slow down. This
1:03:28
has been a practice. It's not something that
1:03:30
I just knew how to do, but it is just learning
1:03:34
to pause. I think that is like one of the most
1:03:38
underrated things that we can do is, Paul, in
1:03:41
a world that is go, go, go, burn it both in Amazon
1:03:44
Prime, we can slow down, pay attention. It does
1:03:48
not have to be this overt, perfect practice.
1:03:50
It can be a minute and a half to two minutes.
1:03:54
And notice the stories, reframe that. Notice
1:03:58
the story that you're telling yourself. And then
1:04:00
these little habits add up throughout the day
1:04:02
to where now you're getting good sleep and you
1:04:04
don't have to be you know perfect and you're
1:04:07
getting good sleep i just highlighted this this
1:04:09
is all sleep laying awake and just resting that's
1:04:12
sleep too wow yeah don't don't bring judgment
1:04:15
to it mitch i want to share one last story with
1:04:18
you one of my mama's she would order stuff on
1:04:23
amazon like that was her like go -to so we talked
1:04:27
about like what if she practiced pausing and
1:04:31
only gave herself a guideline. Like I can only
1:04:34
order things during nap time, not in the middle
1:04:37
of the night. And so by just pausing, she realized
1:04:41
like to not order things and gave herself permission.
1:04:44
Like if she really still needed that, she could
1:04:46
order it during nap time the next day. Because
1:04:49
we are so quick to make decisions in those sleep
1:04:53
deprived moments. And it becomes a compulsive
1:04:56
behavior. Right. I mean and she was just really
1:04:58
struggling because she was like looking for every
1:05:00
hack in the middle of the night like Maybe I
1:05:03
buy the sleep sack or this light and this and
1:05:05
that you know I mean and it was all the things
1:05:06
and I was like, how about Let's talk about it.
1:05:10
Let's figure out if we need it during that nap
1:05:12
time. That's right. I love that That's why we
1:05:14
need people like you that can zoom out and see
1:05:16
the whole picture And she realized she was like,
1:05:18
oh, she was like, I wanted it in that moment
1:05:20
because she saw something on social media and
1:05:23
like, it was a promotion and like, it really
1:05:25
is just about the sleep nuances. And if we can
1:05:28
step back and look at like, what is it that I
1:05:30
really want? What do I need? It's going to shift
1:05:32
things. That's what you're at. So I do this with
1:05:34
my clients where I'm an app by our compulsions.
1:05:36
What happened when activation comes in? What
1:05:39
do you do? I go into fixing and Googling and
1:05:42
figuring things out. And I think where I'm Going
1:05:47
to be adding in is what was the story that I'm
1:05:50
telling myself? Because if I can observe the
1:05:52
pattern and I can observe how that is making
1:05:55
me feel I'm gonna see that's making me dysregulated
1:05:58
adding pressure Fatigue because of it and what
1:06:01
happens when I don't well, it may be a little
1:06:03
dysregulating at first But that's where we come
1:06:06
in with choice and trust instead of force and
1:06:10
control And that is a completely different outcome
1:06:13
for the nervous system in the sleep. We're trying
1:06:14
to get yeah That's a practice. I love it. Well,
1:06:20
we're, thank you so much for coming on. This
1:06:22
has been extremely illuminating and I'm going
1:06:24
to be listening to it again. I'm sure folks are
1:06:27
wondering where can they find you and what do
1:06:29
you got going on? Tell us where you're at and
1:06:31
how we can get in touch with you. Yeah, so I'm
1:06:34
at lovinglessonslearned .com and so I do sleep
1:06:37
coaching and postpartum doula work. I work with
1:06:40
families birth till about school age children
1:06:42
and you know if you have children that are keeping
1:06:45
you up at night we can talk through some of that
1:06:47
in a one -to -one session or in our group sessions
1:06:49
and so I have a monthly ask me anything where
1:06:53
we focus on one of the topics that comes up in
1:06:56
parenting and so sometimes we're talking about
1:06:59
specifically newborn sleep sometimes we're talking
1:07:01
about meal prepping. We're talking about the
1:07:03
things that interrupt day -to -day life that
1:07:07
sometimes become challenges. So how do we create
1:07:09
routines that help us sleep better? I love it.
1:07:13
And if you have, I would love to get links on
1:07:15
the Ask Me Anything. Yeah. So we can stick that
1:07:18
in the YouTube description and people can check
1:07:20
that out. I know I'm going to show up and ask
1:07:22
you anything after spending an hour with you.
1:07:24
I have so many more. Yeah. So we'll have to do
1:07:27
a round two on sleep. You're going to be my...
1:07:30
my local sleep girl, and anybody here that's
1:07:33
in Raleigh, definitely give Irene a shout. Check
1:07:36
out her links below. Again, Irene, thank you
1:07:39
so much for coming on. It's been great to connect
1:07:41
with you and learn more about sleep. I have a
1:07:44
million notes here. Great. Well, thank you so
1:07:47
much for having me, Mitch. Absolutely. And so
1:07:50
to the listeners, if you made it this far, awesome.
1:07:53
And thank you. We like comments. We like likes,
1:07:57
we have questions, put them in the description
1:07:58
below. I'll be tagging Irene and we'll be happy
1:08:01
to answer any of those for you. Thanks for hanging
1:08:04
out and we will see you next time.