Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Destiny of the Daleks (2/4)

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Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Destiny of the Daleks (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blump pen knife for doing quicker quicker.
0:37
Welcome back to a hamster with a blump pen knife the Doctor Who
0:41
comments. Should I rename it?
0:43
Oh, what would you go for, Joe? I don't know, I've been saying
0:46
this bullshit for 1000 episodes now we get some new.
0:51
Is there a new? Role that brand Joey Value in
0:53
the in the hamster brand and the hamster name.
0:55
And we talked about it before. It's the gold standard of
0:57
podcasts. You need to think about the
0:59
marketing. I'd you know, I'd just stick
1:01
with as you will. I mean, it's quite useful
1:03
because the hamster emoji, you know, suddenly became a brand
1:07
thing. And I was like, Oh my God.
1:08
I mean, I didn't even realise that suddenly people were using
1:10
it. I could call it.
1:11
Welcome back to, I don't know, the serpent in the grass.
1:14
Maybe that might be a bit more accurate.
1:18
Well, that makes you sound quite sinister.
1:20
Oh, you're getting it, You're getting it.
1:23
What? We're here today to talk about
1:25
Destiny of the Daleks Episode 2. Now this I I still think things
1:31
are rolling pretty well actually in episode 2, leading up to a
1:35
pretty great cliffhanger when we get there.
1:37
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I said how much I love the cliffhanger
1:40
for Part 1 and it really is probably one of my favourites.
1:43
And I'd love that, the atmosphere of it, just that kind
1:46
of wobbly black wall and the the kind of haunting, the kind of
1:50
sounds of Scar Row. But I can't begin to describe
1:56
how excited I was as a kid seeing Davros in that room and
1:59
his little twinkly hand, little little confirmed motion with oh,
2:03
here. Comes like a lot of people say
2:04
to me that when they were younger, it's certain images
2:08
that are like burned into their consciousness.
2:11
And Peter old one of my patrons said, you know, that that shot
2:14
of Davros covered in cobwebs coming alive like four or five
2:18
years old, that stuff. It just never leaves you.
2:21
I think for sigh heart. It was the end of episode 1 of
2:24
sit your death. The you know, the Jaguar ripping
2:26
the mask off. Well, I said, I think I said
2:30
about Destiny and one of the reasons I picked it, and I've
2:33
mentioned this on the other episodes have been on the
2:37
Instagram page that I run, which is all about classic who.
2:40
It has quite a wide range of people follow me from all over.
2:44
Obviously it's a lot of UK people, but it's people from all
2:46
over the world, people of different ages, people you found
2:50
who were different times. So like I do have a lot of quite
2:53
young people who grew up with the, the modern show finding the
2:57
classics and enjoying those, which is I think a great thing.
3:01
And I also one of the reasons I think you don't really need to
3:03
do the colourisations RTD, cause fans will find it if they wanna
3:07
watch it and those who won't wanna watch it will never
3:09
bother. So just don't Fanny around with
3:13
old Who's one really? Shaping vintage television and
3:18
posing it as modern television. It's just such a why?
3:22
Why? But anyway, right, And that's,
3:25
that's by the by, what I was going to say is the destiny is
3:28
so popular with a lot of people who follow my page because I
3:33
think it's it was there's I don't know, I think there was
3:37
just a whole load of kids kind of watching at that time and.
3:41
15,000,000 people Paul. All right.
3:43
Exactly. Yeah, thank you, ITV.
3:45
Yeah. So I think we all got a kind of
3:50
dose, I got double dose of it. I remember very clearly watching
3:54
the repeats the the following summer and and loving those and
3:58
somebody. We had a new neighbor move in
4:01
just before, just on the day that Part 1 was being repeated.
4:05
And I was like, Oh yeah, Doctor Who's on tonight.
4:08
And they're like, what was was Doctor Who?
4:10
And they and they'd never seen it.
4:12
So I dragged them into my house. Aged now who knows?
4:17
This is this is many years ago. You was indoctrinating people
4:21
even there eight years. Old.
4:24
So yeah, I often think of this as being it, and we talked
4:28
before about it being a kind of nighttime shoot maybe, and how
4:32
different that would have been. I actually think for me this
4:36
feels like a summer story because that memory of that
4:40
summer repeat and it being a blazing hot day and I've been
4:42
playing outside and I was coming in towards Destiny, the donics.
4:46
That's kind of how I picture this story, I think.
4:49
I mean I recently have I don't want to be too mean about Blake
4:54
7 but I am going to be I recently I'm not purchased.
4:58
Well no. I'm a big fan of Blake 7 but
5:00
fuck me the location work on Blake 7 is so miserable man.
5:03
They somehow managed to go to genuinely atmospheric places and
5:07
make everyone look like, you know, a seaside town in winter.
5:11
I mean, it just always looks so gloomy.
5:13
I can only imagine if they'd have gone to this location now.
5:16
I'm sure they did at some point in Blakes him because this was a
5:19
popular location this Yeah, the quarry that they would make it
5:25
look absolutely dismal when I'm engaging.
5:28
Whereas Kane Grave Valley. He's just got it.
5:31
He knows how to shoot that space to make it feel like an alien
5:34
planet that's coming alive. You know I.
5:37
Mean it isn't. About one.
5:39
It is a great location, isn't it those, you know, that the kind
5:43
of whatever you call it caves, we'll call it caves it, it is
5:46
amazing that that shot where they've left the TARDIS on, on
5:49
that kind of rocky plimp, just just iconic.
5:52
Beautiful shot, isn't it? Yeah.
5:54
Yeah. In that cave as well.
5:56
Absolutely so. And of course, all of this stuff
5:59
now. Now they're bringing them out on
6:00
Blu rays. It brushes up this film work.
6:03
Looks great. Gorgeous.
6:05
Well look, should we head into episode 2 then?
6:07
I believe we're going to be doing quite a bit of drilling in
6:10
this episode, you know, heading, plunging downwards and treating.
6:15
To the lower levels. Yeah, I wonder what treasures we
6:18
will unearth when we reach there.
6:20
Shall we find out? Yeah, absolutely.
6:22
Let's go for it. You want to count us in?
6:25
Yeah, absolutely. So here we go, 321.
6:30
I got a big question to ask you sort of going into episode 2.
6:33
That is, have you ever been to any vintage gay robotic discos?
6:42
Well, most of my gay robotic disco action is kind of modern
6:48
Is is kind of like right up to the to the moment.
6:51
I don't, I don't go to any vintage ones, I'm afraid.
6:53
Oh. OK, well, you know, I just sort
6:56
of was wondering if you'd rub shoulders with any mevellums in
6:59
the past. You know they're fabulous
7:01
spankly dreadlocks. Yeah, I've often often seen with
7:05
glow sticks on the shoulders. Yeah, yeah.
7:07
I mean, it is a look, isn't? It well, you know, I've, I've
7:11
been thinking about it quite a lot, right.
7:12
So. Oh.
7:14
Sorry. So, so obviously they are
7:18
pretending to be human and that the design design of them are
7:21
very much of an era, shall we say very much late 70s gay
7:26
disco, as you put it. But really, if you if if if you
7:31
think of them as as kind of humans, a lot of the, the kind
7:35
of sci-fi humans of Doctor Who of certainly of the classic
7:39
years, their design is very much of their period anyway.
7:41
If you if you think of something like the Ice Warriors and what
7:44
they were wearing on on the Britannica base there where
7:47
they've kind of got that monochrome black and white sort
7:50
of design, that is as 60s as it possibly can be.
7:55
And and the Mevellan's are as late 70s as they could.
7:57
Possibly they are the most disco thing in 70s Doctor Who by a
8:01
country. You're right.
8:02
And if we didn't have them, we wouldn't have had that little
8:04
touch of, you know, of a power and all of that that was going
8:08
on in the 70s. Yeah, I mean, they could have
8:11
been. It could have been a very boring
8:12
design. I said I like the idea.
8:16
Yeah. The the idea at the heart of the
8:18
story of two robotic armies caught in a stalemate.
8:24
I mean, if you're a calculator, that idea might be quite
8:26
interesting to you. But I'm a human being.
8:29
So Douglas Adams and the designers and Ken Grieve go.
8:32
You know what, right? We'll make one set of Dalek, one
8:34
set of robots, the Daleks, you know, 'cause everyone loves
8:37
those. And we'll make the other set a
8:38
load of gay spangly disco robots.
8:42
And suddenly this boring idea is really fun.
8:46
Right, right. And they got those cool pink
8:48
guns. I mean like that, yes.
8:50
I mean, do you remember when they showed up in the pilot?
8:54
Yeah. Everyone got so excited with
8:58
original pink disco guns. I know something like that just
9:02
goes to show you. I mean, there's no such thing
9:05
really as bad design. I think you can, you know, it's
9:08
all about how you, how you show it well, how you direct it.
9:13
And I think Ken Grieve here does a fantastic job with those and
9:16
that they've become iconic because of the way that he's
9:19
presenting them here. But equally they, you know, like
9:22
a decent modern director can, can use them in the future.
9:25
I think at the time, or maybe sort of as we head into the,
9:28
certainly in the 90s, yeah, it was something to be a bit
9:31
embarrassed about. Well, you know, just.
9:34
Go robots and I. Suppose I suppose I feel.
9:37
Like we've got an over ourselves now and now we're just embrace
9:40
all of this group. Yeah, I mean, I've, I've always
9:43
had a fairly high cringe threshold, I think.
9:45
So stuff like. That that's why you hang out
9:47
with me so much? Well.
9:51
Done. Yeah, I've never been bothered
9:52
by this and it's always I like I like the fun in Dog Two we
9:56
talked about before the last episode about comedy.
9:58
I like comedy in in Doctor Who. I like fun stuff in Doctor Who.
10:02
And so I've, yeah, I've always enjoyed that.
10:05
This is a brilliant set, man Ken Grieve.
10:09
Look, he's shooting through walls.
10:11
It's a four wall set with a ceiling A and a great coloured
10:15
ceiling at that. You've got those big, forgive
10:18
me, those massive glowing, OK, let's call them globes.
10:23
Are they sort of like static balls that she's stuck to?
10:28
Yeah, I mean, later on, don't they use one of them as a
10:31
computer, I think in part 4. So I don't know quite what they
10:37
are, but they kind of is. It is a cool image, isn't it?
10:39
Like we've heard kind of fix to the spot petrified of of these
10:44
Daleks. It's a situation I found myself
10:46
in quite a bit actually. With your hands on 2 balls.
10:49
An aggressive person saying get your house on those bulbs now,
10:52
you know. Yeah, well, you know, the
10:57
torture chambers and the saunters are, are a very real
10:59
thing. I do think the Dalek dialogue is
11:03
utterly functional in this. I mean, like, there's not a
11:06
it's. It's hard to give Daleks decent
11:09
lines anyway. Or at least I think we all
11:12
thought that. And then Rob Sheeran came along
11:15
with Dalek and proved us all wrong.
11:17
Yeah, but that. But that kind of leans into the
11:19
story here because we know that these are boring, unimaginative
11:22
Daleks who have to find somebody with a bit of imagination to
11:25
help them out. So it's kind of baked into the
11:27
story. Doesn't mean it isn't it make
11:29
any more interesting, but there is a reason for it I guess.
11:33
If you notice so, that console has got an enormous erection
11:36
knob on it. Look at that music.
11:39
I had not noticed that before that I.
11:41
Think it's the top of the Federation security robot you
11:44
know from Blake 70. Well, console that.
11:48
Mr. Prop Band, All right, Yeah, yeah.
11:50
There's a lot of props in here, will you?
11:52
Investigate that for me, please. I will, I will.
11:55
There's a lot in Destiny that's interesting and we're back on
11:57
the Mavellan ship here and there's lots of bits in this
11:59
though interesting as well. Oh, what?
12:01
Really. What?
12:01
Shut up sharp in other things? Well, yeah, all those consoles
12:04
on the wall and that are in other things.
12:06
There's a lot that come. I mean, there's a lot from both
12:08
of those says that comes from UFO, the Jerry Anderson Show.
12:12
Really. Yeah.
12:13
Oh my. God, you didn't mention what
12:15
your what your. What the graver.
12:19
Forgotten what the platform is called.
12:21
Oh, it's a yeah. It's so it's my blog is Doctor
12:27
on blogspot.com where I look at the props of I think Doctor and
12:31
where they reoccur. But it's also Doctor Who
12:34
sixties, 70s and 80s. Yeah, that was the original.
12:37
Oh fabulous. Check it out everybody.
12:40
Thank you, Jacob. If you can remember what the
12:42
platform is, unlike me. Look for me by name and you'll
12:45
probably find it now. Tyson's an odd one, right?
12:48
Because I don't think it's in any way a bad performance, but
12:51
it is an uncharismatic performance and totally unlike
12:57
what you had all of last season where everyone had huge
13:01
personality and sort of theatricality and suddenly he's
13:05
very naturalistic, this fella. I guess that's probably what
13:08
this story doesn't have, as you're right compared to pretty
13:10
much every Williams story doesn't have that scenery
13:15
chewing character actor, does it?
13:17
It's quite refreshing in a way, though, because there's plenty
13:20
of that elsewhere, certainly this season.
13:22
Yeah, and what he does have, Tim.
13:24
Tim Barlow, wasn't it the actor, I didn't remember his name.
13:27
I couldn't remember a Geller's name, but it's Tim.
13:30
But he's got a real physical presence about him.
13:33
He's not, as you say, he's not the most dynamic of of readings,
13:36
but he's got that real kind of ruggedness that kind of suits
13:39
the character. And we're doing proper disabled
13:42
casting in Doctor Who because he was a deaf actor, wasn't he?
13:45
Exactly, Yeah. But they didn't bang on about
13:48
the fact that he was deaf like they would in new series.
13:50
No, they just have give him a great juicy role.
13:53
There's a lot, there's a lot of diversity here.
13:54
Well, we got was was it David? Yip, isn't it?
13:58
Yeah. Oh, it's very handsome, may I
14:00
say. I wouldn't mind being stuck down
14:01
that cave of him. It's a proper cave.
14:04
I mean, we're doing a seriously proper mowing.
14:07
Yeah, and the camera cameras again is panning through and
14:10
like you know, along you can see how deep we're going into the
14:13
caves. Lots of extras.
14:15
Daleks in the background. Yeah, Ken Grave Man getting you
14:20
a Blue Peter badge. Yeah, it looks, it looks
14:25
absolutely terrific. I think these extras, though, oh
14:27
boy, you wait till we get to Episode 3 where they're being
14:31
shot to death and they're laughing as they fall to the
14:33
floor. I mean some of these extras.
14:36
I didn't realise it's a completely different set of
14:39
people. Wasn't it like the the studio
14:40
guys? They're different to to the
14:43
slaves that were on. Do you notice that now, Mr. Prop
14:46
Man? Do you notice how he's wearing
14:48
them? A restaurant costume behind
14:50
there from Planet of Evil. What else can we say?
14:52
I'm sure there's others. There's loads of different
14:55
costumes obviously on this in the studio stuff and there's a
14:57
different set on the studio, a different group of people and
15:00
they've got like draconian stuff in there.
15:02
There's funk trousers and there's all sorts of.
15:05
Stuff. Let's spot them as we go through
15:06
shortly. You're the ultimate person I can
15:10
do this with. I'm not very exciting.
15:13
Well, no, I don't care. It's exciting to me.
15:15
I don't care about everyone else.
15:18
I've gotta say though, it is it is Terry doing in a a very
15:24
comedic period of Doctor Who. He's doing serious stuff.
15:27
You've got Ramana there, who is now a slave of the Daleks being
15:30
forced to mine and dying of radiation poisoning.
15:34
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's a lot of the the the
15:37
classic nation tropes like we mentioned before, but actually
15:41
the the execution of it's pretty serious.
15:43
And like in an era where, as you say, it's all known for its,
15:46
it's known for its comedy, serious stuff.
15:49
Isn't that what you bring Terry Nation in for, though, to give
15:52
you Terry Nation? Like I know a lot of people say,
15:54
well, it just does the same things over and over again.
15:57
Yeah, but we love those things. We love an episode 1 where we're
16:00
wandering the planet. We love a bit of mining, You
16:03
know, we love the Daleks coming out in surprise moments.
16:06
Well, Adams was looking for new writers, wasn't he?
16:07
He wrote a writers guide and I think it was the first time they
16:12
had one since the 60s and they were looking for new writers but
16:15
you end up with the oldest writer of them all doing the
16:18
show. Well, and who else do you get?
16:20
Bob Baker? Yeah, yeah, David Fisher, who
16:24
did the one last year. So there's no new writers this
16:27
season. Isn't there no nobody new comes
16:29
out of the out of the woodwork? I think like, you know, Andrew
16:33
Cartman was able to to find new voices, but I think plenty of
16:36
other script editors found it difficult to find people who
16:39
would be able to to get. It, you know, I mean, I'm a
16:42
massive season 17 Stan and I do think once you've got past it,
16:47
you're death and that astonishing studio jungle and
16:51
creature from the pit, it's suddenly very studio heavy for
16:55
the rest of the year. But I do think it sparkles like
16:57
the ideas in it, the weight in it, the characters in it,
17:01
there's some great twists, unusual monsters in it.
17:04
You know, I, I think there's a lot happening in 17, certainly
17:07
on the page. No, a hundred 100%.
17:10
And that's why I, I mean, as I say, I kind of that's where I
17:13
came in as a kid watching it. But like I said before about
17:17
this and and Carnival, when you go back to something as an adult
17:21
and you can still appreciate what he's doing, that's that's
17:25
really, really important. And I think that's why I enjoy
17:28
about the Williams stuff is you can look past maybe where there
17:31
are deficiencies in the production and kind of go, OK,
17:34
well, the writers are doing something brilliant here when
17:36
you've got people like David Fisher writing excellent stuff.
17:41
So the ideas are there, bits of bits of the OR the actors,
17:45
plenty of great acting in it, plenty of brilliant character
17:48
actors. So there's always something to
17:50
really get out of those stories, I think.
17:53
In three, and obviously we'll get there, but there's a great
17:58
dramatic stand off where the doctors basically holding Davros
18:04
prisoner with a bomb and the Daleks stop gunning down extras
18:10
and say you give us Davros or we'll just keep massacring
18:13
everybody. Something happens in the
18:17
translation of those scenes. It might be the laughing extras
18:19
as they fall to the ground and it isn't quite as what the hell
18:24
is that? Do you see that probe?
18:26
There's so many random things. That's what I like about these
18:29
sets. It's really hard to get a sense
18:31
of the geography of the place. Like normally when you've got
18:34
like a a simple studio base of some kind, you've got corridors,
18:38
you've got maybe one or two kind of key sets.
18:41
But like in those corridors, it's so much crap and, and like
18:43
just junk in there, like the supermarket trolleys and all
18:46
that kind of stuff. And the and the line that is
18:48
really hard to get a sense of the geography of it.
18:51
So it feels like when they are kind of walking through those,
18:53
feels like this progress feels like they're going somewhere and
18:56
they are going deeper enough to find Davros.
18:59
So spoilers. Sorry.
19:02
Yeah, you know it. Didn't know.
19:05
Oh, so I ruined it. But it makes it feel real.
19:08
It makes it feel like a kind of real place.
19:12
Oh my God, I think I just saw the spinning reels of the boss
19:15
from the Green Death in the background there.
19:17
Do you see them? Yeah, well, that is, yeah.
19:20
There's the computers there. They're again, they're from UFO,
19:22
one of the the fatter. The fatter blue one is from the
19:26
Green Death. Dittum, Jerry Nation, Jerry
19:29
Nation, Jerry Anderson Need a bit of money.
19:31
Was he selling it all off as a job?
19:33
Yeah. After after UFO finished, I
19:35
think that was like what 7071 something like that and they
19:38
basically sucked with every so. We need a bit of liquidity to
19:43
make Moon base free. Sell Doctor Who our props.
19:46
I think, I think Ian Skins was at the back with a shopping
19:49
trolley saying fill it out full of models so there's loads and
19:52
loads. I can't.
19:53
Remember what a story it is? It's on one of the documentaries
19:55
where they say they basically were given a load of Terry Jerry
19:58
Anderson spaceships. Yeah, and they would just
20:01
repurpose them for the Doctor Who stories.
20:03
Frontier and Spaces got some of that.
20:05
Yeah, I think it was that. Yeah, yeah.
20:08
I love this shot of Ramana. Apparently it's some handheld
20:13
camera work and it just lingers over her body.
20:15
We're doing the zombies again. Yeah, it is incredible.
20:18
How about how that steady camera, I mean, you just
20:22
wouldn't have seen anything like it at the time, and even now it
20:25
feels pretty. It just feels really, really
20:27
fresh, doesn't it? I'm not going to suggest that
20:29
Ken Grieve was as revolutionary as, say, Graham Harper when he
20:33
came in, but in terms of what the directors are doing at the
20:37
time, yeah, I think this is a real cut above.
20:42
Absolutely. Yeah, really is stylish as hell.
20:45
You heard all the great stories he tells on the documentary.
20:48
Ken Grieve about living with Douglas Adams and right and go
20:52
to Paris. Paris, didn't they?
20:56
It sounds, it sounds like a great laugh.
20:57
It's a Scotsman. Yeah, yeah.
21:01
There's that bloody look, that row cage again with more rubble.
21:03
Right. Something tells me, you know,
21:06
they could be going up the same corridor.
21:09
But you don't necessarily know because it's like, you know, you
21:12
can't wither the black flats and and the junk and everything.
21:15
And when we get to the Davros Pits, that's it feels again like
21:19
a different set and it's different kind of architecture
21:22
there. So it all feels like a a real
21:24
maze of corridors. He's shooting through that
21:27
plastic again off the wall. I mean, it's just like if this
21:31
was Pennant Roberts, right, or Peter Maffei, everything would
21:34
be shot head on. Everyone would be in two shots,
21:37
you know? Oh, there's a lovely shot of
21:39
those spinning wheels, The red. Ones.
21:41
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, after there's a wider blue
21:45
one, which is kind of the foot. The foot.
21:48
We've had one to get really boring left to right you've got,
21:51
yeah, left to right, you've got the red ones, you've got a blue
21:54
one. And then the third one in is a
21:56
fat wide blue one. That's the one that's in the
21:58
green depth in the bosses. Are they from the main sets of
22:01
UFO then? Or just turn.
22:03
Yeah, yeah, a lot of them. Well, they're dotted all over,
22:06
but a lot of them are in the main Shadow HQ.
22:10
And I think actually they came from a film before that, Jerry
22:12
Anderson did a film called Doppelganger, which came out in
22:15
1969 Seventy, which is where they they were originally made
22:19
for. All of that stuff turns up in
22:21
UFO and then after that gets sold off.
22:23
And in fact, it doesn't only turn up in Doctor Who.
22:26
Turns literally everything any any kind of vaguely science
22:30
fictiony thing from the the 70s and 80s made by the BBC they
22:35
turn up in. I was watching Top of the Pops
22:36
on BBC Four the other week and there's a Kenny Everett video.
22:40
He's doing a Captain Cremins song and there's some some UFO
22:44
stuff in there that been in these stories as well.
22:46
God, I bet you can't watch any of this stuff, you know, without
22:49
getting a little bit hard, can you?
22:51
Oh my God, I recognize that from doctor.
22:54
Who and I used to say this story's got loads of costumes
22:57
have been reused and these years loads of bits and bobs.
23:00
Yeah, I do remember seeing the Draconian one because they
23:02
forgot the sort of samurai, the sort of triangular shoulder
23:06
pads. I was like, yeah, that's
23:08
definitely from Frontier in space.
23:10
Are you still shooting up? That's such a good move, just
23:14
shooting up at those sets. So he must have asked for the
23:17
ceilings, right? I did read about this and I've
23:21
forgotten why that was done. There was a reason, but yeah,
23:25
sorry, escaped me. What?
23:26
What that he was forced to have them or he chose to have them?
23:31
Yeah, sorry Joe. That's that's a fact lost to me.
23:36
So if anybody knows. Please write in and tell us why
23:39
there are so many ceilings and destiny of the topics.
23:43
But I mean, he gives it that such a unique look.
23:47
I don't think there's any other story quite like it.
23:49
I think I've decided I'm a whore for a ceiling now every time I
23:52
see one, you know? Did you see the way that
23:55
Movellen fell down? Then when he got shot it was
23:57
like ohh. Later on in the end of the story
24:00
when they getting their power packs removed and there's that.
24:02
Ohh my. God, it's the the ballet of the
24:06
Mavellan death. Yeah.
24:08
They, they, they were obviously made by the fish people in the
24:12
same kind of same kind of dance stuff.
24:14
Yeah. Now I'm going to suggest right
24:16
In story terms, yeah, perhaps if the Mavellan's had been made to
24:21
look like people rather than people in cat suits with silver
24:27
dreadlocks, you know, less uniform and more individual,
24:32
then the twist that their robots may have hit a little better
24:37
because visually they all look one of a piece.
24:40
You know, yeah, I, I guess it would work.
24:43
But then I, I want to be generous with, I just want to be
24:46
generous with my reading of this because I kind of feel that if
24:49
you're a race of robots pretending to be human and they,
24:52
they make a big point. They're going, oh, yeah, Now
24:54
we're really, really people like you.
24:56
They make a real deal of it that you would.
24:59
It's like that. It's like they kind of know what
25:01
people look like, but they haven't quite nailed it.
25:04
You know, with the the dreadlock hair, they're like, Oh yeah,
25:06
this is hair. You know, we can this looks like
25:08
real person hair. Everyone wears silver, silver
25:11
braids with beads on the end. So my.
25:13
Alternative reading on it is retrospectively, you know, in in
25:18
our new sort of meta way of looking at television.
25:21
Yeah, like Colin Bakers costume, which I also think was a huge
25:26
mistake at the time. Yeah.
25:28
It's stuff that we celebrate now where we have gotten over
25:31
ourselves and we go you know what man?
25:33
Only Doctor Who would give us them of Ellens.
25:36
Like go on. I, I, yeah, I don't know how you
25:39
can watch a kind of sci-fi show like Doctor Who or like anything
25:44
like this and not enjoy that stuff because.
25:47
Did you see them touch heads there when Tom and the Mavellum
25:51
both bowed at the same? Time because that's a great shot
25:56
of like Tony, a sober on the ground and and the Daleks
25:59
rolling past. Tony A sober, you say?
26:02
Yeah. It was lucky, Lucky people.
26:06
You have been chosen, especially selected to join our force of
26:10
mercenaries. It's the same man, isn't it?
26:12
From Dragon Fire? Yeah, indeed.
26:14
Oh, no. Here's the famous line.
26:16
Maybe a joke too far? I don't know.
26:18
Just say I'm happy with comedy, but I don't know if taking the
26:22
Mickey out of your your baddie is a good idea.
26:26
Well, Paul, if you're supposed to be the superior prop expert
26:29
in the universe, yeah, why don't you try telling me where this
26:32
banjo's from? Bye.
26:34
Bye. Sorry, I was brandishing a
26:38
banjo. I.
26:38
Promise. Yes.
26:39
Yeah. For the listeners, he had a.
26:41
Sure. Look at that shot.
26:43
Is that a house has been demolished.
26:46
Yeah, I guess it's part of whatever.
26:49
Well, yeah, maybe the minus house or something.
26:52
Whatever. Those caves were actually full.
26:55
Do you reckon the location person was sort of wondering
26:57
about going Oh my God, we've struck gold here?
27:01
Well, I guess it must be one of those places that was well known
27:04
to them. It's in the is it in the
27:06
smugglers as well? I think they.
27:08
Smugglers it's it's just around the corner from where they shoot
27:11
in the it's, it's around the corner from turtle door, isn't
27:13
it? From where they do power the
27:15
doctor and cursor Fenrick as well, because there there is
27:17
it's on the coast here. They don't shoot.
27:19
They don't shoot the sea because obviously we're on Scarrow.
27:23
You don't want to see any seagulls, Yeah.
27:24
We've never seen an ocean before on Scarrow, but it just looks, I
27:28
don't know, it just adds so much value.
27:30
Yeah, 100 percent, 100%. Such an iconic.
27:33
And you can see why film makers would want to go because Star
27:36
Wars has been there now, isn't it?
27:37
So yeah. Even like that, I know I'm
27:40
really focusing on these, even that ramp when they come into
27:43
this interior set, so it feels like they've come in and gone
27:47
down into somewhere. Just lots of clever visual
27:52
tricks. But it's that, but it's the one
27:54
thing that the Williams era is always held up As for as being
27:57
not very good in is the design. And and so when you can, when
28:02
you show somebody this and you go look, look what they're doing
28:04
here. Can I just say bullshit to that
28:07
because recently I did a commentary on the Rebus
28:09
operation and the design in that.
28:11
Oh my God. Heaven.
28:13
Before that I did the Strictly season 16 and watched The
28:15
Androids of Tara. Beautiful to look at.
28:18
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
28:19
Well, is it Ken Licham? He did.
28:21
He does this and he does Rebus. Oh.
28:25
Great. I mean, see your death for God
28:28
sakes. That's amazing.
28:29
Yeah. Yeah.
28:30
I think everybody just remembers Underworld and the invasion of
28:33
time and some parts of the invisible enemy, but even that I
28:37
think is better designed than people suggest.
28:40
Oh well, I I think invisible enemies fantastic design wise,
28:44
it's things like power of the crawl, I think where it's
28:47
functional. Oh, here we go.
28:48
Yeah, we're. Looking very Moody now.
28:50
Yeah. And look, we're in a different,
28:52
different area now. We haven't seen this stuff.
28:54
And like I. Don't know why this just feels
28:55
very oppressive down here doesn't it?
28:57
All the sort of pipes hanging everyone it does genuinely for.
29:01
So this is the same city we were in in Genesis, but just been
29:04
left to utter disrepair. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:08
And as good as Genesis is, and as well executed as Genesis is,
29:11
it doesn't deliver sets like that.
29:13
Or lighting. All that lighting down in the
29:15
bunker is very flat in Genesis. Yeah, there you.
29:18
Go look at us being more kind of, we skipped all over that
29:23
amazing scene. I really love it where Tom
29:25
thinks that Romana's dead and he runs over and he starts pulling
29:30
off all the rocks thinking he's going to find out.
29:32
And he goes, oh, I thought you were dead.
29:35
It will laugh about it, Yeah. I mean, even at this early
29:39
stage. I mean, they are in love for the
29:40
pair of them, are they? Oh yeah, 100%.
29:43
And like when you've got that kind of breeziness of their
29:46
relationship in City of Death, Yeah, we'll look at and here we
29:50
are, we're at the Davros scene. And you're right, this is.
29:54
Look at that again. Shot from below.
29:57
Yes, yeah. So that that, I mean, that's a
30:01
classic sort of foreshot there of everybody in here because
30:05
it's shot from below. It's just got a bit more
30:07
dynamism to it. Look at him.
30:09
He's absolutely covered in cobwebs.
30:11
Yeah, you're right. That could have that could have
30:12
been so flat with any number of other directors doing it.
30:16
Can I ask, was Davros awake and aware whilst all those spiders
30:20
were creating homes all over him?
30:23
Maybe, yeah, I wouldn't be sad still.
30:28
Oh bloody hell, the ceilings falling in, it's not going to
30:31
end well, I don't think. It's like the Twister is like,
30:35
does everyone remember Davros? It was, what, five seasons ago?
30:39
I I I seem to think that I knew who he was before watching this
30:44
and I think the only thing I would have known him from was
30:46
the top Trump game. I think I mentioned it before as
30:50
the game I got as a kid had a Davros card.
30:54
So I, I think I might have known him from that, maybe from Doctor
30:58
Weekly and then I thought you'd have had a picture at some
31:00
point. But, but I don't know.
31:02
I I think I did know who he was. Genuinely think that is one of
31:06
the best cliffhanger images because he does a slow pullback
31:09
right on those cobwebs, waving on that cadaverous face in the
31:15
half dark with the the headlight coming on.
31:18
Yeah, well, the mask still works while Goodison doesn't speak, so
31:23
it's as soon as you start speaking that you've got
31:25
problems. But yeah, yeah, no, it is a
31:28
fantastic cliffhanger. 15 billion people can't be wrong,
31:31
you know, Paul? They certainly can't.
31:33
As I say, they could have gone to the pub, but they didn't
31:35
they? You know, I was expecting to be
31:37
a bit more critical than this, but I'm loving this so far.
31:39
Right. You really are, yeah.
31:43
This isn't my bag usually at all.
31:45
I don't go for atmosphere. I like camp comedy.
31:47
Oh well, I've got the villains. Yeah, yeah.
31:50
Well, yeah, but exactly. It gives you plenty camp, but
31:53
it's it's not all singing or dancing kind of in your face.
31:57
I'll tell you what it is, right? It's because when I'm watching
32:02
Doctor Who and I'm not doing a commentary on it and talking all
32:05
over it, yeah, I'm generally watching for the dialogue, the
32:11
plot and the characters. And yeah, when I'm doing a
32:14
commentary, because the sounds of I'm generally just looking at
32:18
the images. So sort of taking away all of
32:20
that and looking at this as a production while we're talking
32:23
about it, it really does it pops.
32:26
Yeah, you're right. Yeah.
32:28
When we get to Part 4, that's where I start to maybe have
32:32
issues with this. And I think that as to say, I
32:36
don't think Goodison is is fantastic.
32:38
I don't think he's got the best dialogue, but it's dialogue that
32:41
could really sing with a decent feel really bad actually saying
32:46
he's not a decent actor closely because he's decent actor, but
32:48
but with with one of those other character actors, like we were
32:51
talking about the the Williams era, so full of and there's
32:56
plenty of really good people who can all like if you had Dave
32:59
Michael Wishard doing it, you know, the, you know, bringing
33:03
reprising his his Davros, I think he really could sing.
33:06
Did you hear the trailer for the season 17 Blu-ray where they
33:11
they let they treated his voice like Davros in Genesis and it
33:16
was an amazing performance? Yeah, no, I was going to, I was
33:19
going to bring that up because you're right.
33:21
It works so much better, doesn't it?
33:23
I think he the the performance he gives is so much better.
33:26
But you're right, just treating their voice, yeah, makes all the
33:30
difference. I as as much as I loathe to
33:32
throw credit towards Nicholas Briggs, but that wobulator of
33:36
his, it does it. It's there for a reason.
33:39
The voices of the Daleks are iconic and Davros, when they're
33:43
treated I think as well the Daleks, right.
33:45
The the ones I don't like are the ones that sound a bit too
33:48
human. So you know the ones in
33:50
Revelation, well, they sort of sound a bit like that.
33:53
Oh, the ones in Was it We Are the Masters of Earth from Dalek
33:58
Invasion of Earth. Yeah, Yeah.
34:00
They totally, yeah, they totally get it wrong there, don't they?
34:02
Whereas your full on zippy Roy Skelton and this with proper
34:05
treatment. Right, right.
34:07
Yeah, now it it, yeah, it does make and yeah, that collection
34:12
trailer was fantastic. Just going and going back to
34:14
that location and it looking the same as it did in the late 70s.
34:20
What's his name? Cliff Chapman got his fabulous
34:22
drone out. You know, shots from above.
34:26
Well, Paul, would you like to head into Episode 3 then and
34:30
find out what nefarious purpose the Daleks want Davros for?
34:36
What could that? What could they possibly want
34:38
Davros for? Yeah, absolutely.
34:40
Let's go find out. I'm not sure there's ever been a
34:42
question that's been so exciting asked on the habs of a blood pen
34:45
knife. Hamster with a blunt pen knife
34:52
for doing quicker, quicker, quicker, quicker.