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What Do You Do When Your Company Ends Remote Work? Turn An RTO Mandate Into Career Leverage (Without Burning Bridges) · Happen To Your Career - Meaningful Work, Career Change, Career Design, & Job Search

• 0:00
  Monika Herdlick: On Friday, I basically got a call from my supervisor saying, "Teleworking's done. You need to come into the office beginning on Monday." And I'm like, "What?"
• 0:06
  Scott Anthony Barlow: That's Monika, and she spent 30 years building a career, both as a flight test engineer and an Army Reserve helicopter pilot. And in one day, all of it changed.
• 0:16
  Not with a performance review, not with a resignation, but with a Friday afternoon phone call forcing a return-to-office mandate effective Monday. Within minutes, the flexibility and autonomy Monika had built her whole life around were gone.
• 0:31
  Monika Herdlick: It was scary. The unknown was looming. I didn't have another job. I just started working with Nicole. I still had two kids in college. I'm like, "Okay, well, I have no idea what I'm gonna do."
• 0:39
  Scott Anthony Barlow: Here's what most people do in this situation, one of two things. They comply and resent it, or they quit without a plan. But there is a third option, one that allows you to use this moment as leverage to finally make an intentional strategic career move without burning a single bridge in the process. That option is what we cover in today's episode.
• 1:00
  Introduction: This is Happen To Your Career. Most people let their career happen to them, falling into jobs by accident, staying longer than they should, and wondering if this is really all there is. But a few people decide to stop settling and do something different.
• 1:12
  This podcast is for you to take control, get intentional, and design your work to fit the life that you want to build. Real stories and real research so that you can stop waiting and start making it happen. I'm Scott Anthony Barlow.
• 1:25
  Scott Anthony Barlow: Return-to-office, or RTO. It's become a common term as organizations that went remote during the pandemic found themselves paying for office leases with no one in the building.
• 1:34
  A WorkWatch report from Monster, which surveyed over 1,500 US workers, found that 58% ranked flexible work schedules as a top priority, second only to, surprise, salary. A separate study found 82% of workers would consider looking for a new job if their employer implemented a fully in-person mandate, and 53% of remote-capable employees say they'd seek a new job if forced to return full-time.
• 2:01
  Okay, I don't really think that this is a surprise to anyone. This is not a niche reaction. It's a workforce-wide shift in priorities, and it's creating a career change movement unlike anything that we've ever seen before. Why is that? Most working professionals have never explicitly declared their priorities.
• 2:20
  They've never explicitly dug into what creates a phenomenal fit or have really quantified on paper, on purpose, the life that they're trying to build, and certainly not the work. So they operate on implicit priorities, you know, things that they value but have never really gotten specific on, and they're not using that as a real filter for decisions.
• 2:41
  End result, well, when big changes happen, and mandates go into effect, they force a conversation that surfaces things that haven't been consciously thought about, forces reactions. And this is exactly what happened to Monika. While she loved her job, she knew that something was off.
• 3:00
  Monika Herdlick: It had been kind of in the back of my mind for a number of years. I appreciated the flexibility. I loved the fact that I had the autonomy, but the work just wasn't interesting me anymore. It was that frustration of wanting to move, but yet being a little fearful of it, just because it's like, "Do I really wanna upend everything at this point?"
• 3:17
  Scott Anthony Barlow: Flexibility and autonomy were Monika's implicit priorities, and they were keeping her in this role that had otherwise stopped fitting because she didn't wanna lose these pieces.
• 3:26
  So when her employer forced that mandate, then Monika realized her preferences were actually requirements for the life that she'd built. She needed the flexibility to spend time with her kids, and she needed the autonomy to maintain her work schedule in the way that was good for her.
• 3:42
  Here at HTYC, we talk about this through a couple of concepts, and we call those minimums and ideals. Now, think about minimums as these are your non-negotiables. These are the things that you know from experience and experimenting with that you can't function well without. These are your must-haves. Your ideals are what you're aspirationally moving towards, what you'd prefer out of work, and the things that really are and would be phenomenal for you.
• 4:09
  Now, together, these minimums and ideals make up something that we call your Ideal Career Profile or ICP. And think about this just as a written, specific picture or even checklist of exactly what you need and what you want out of work, built from real evidence as opposed to a generic wish list. Now, we've done full episodes on building an ICP from scratch, and this is really hard work to do, so it definitely deserves its own episode.
• 4:34
  So you can check that out in the description and show notes, and we've got a couple of those linked if you wanna dive deeper. For today, here's the part of it that matters most for a decision like this one, and I wanna give you some considerations here. What is the return-to-office mandate actually costing you?
• 4:51
  Or if you suspect that one's coming, what would it cost you in the future? And I'm not talking about complaints here; I'm talking about specifics. For example, you know, what would the commute look like? Is that going to be forty-five minutes? That is one way, totaling up to ninety minutes a day of time that you can't get back.
• 5:11
  You know, what about the childcare logistics? Are there costs in terms of actual costs associated with that or emotional costs associated with that? All of those pieces, I would suggest taking a little bit writing those down. What are going to be the major real differences and perceived differences? If you have a routine in the morning that includes focused deep work, it could potentially be harder to do in a return-to-office situation. Whatever it is, write it out.
• 5:40
  Now, what we wanna do here is we wanna try and understand, are these things deal breakers or are they solvable problems? We mentioned earlier that for some people, something like an RTO mandate is a catalyst or a final straw, but the real issue has been there for a while. And if that's you, where the real issue is the work itself doesn't match up with what you are wanting to spend your time on, then the mandate is just the thing that finally makes you look up and realize that this role at some point stopped fitting.
• 6:13
  So if that's your situation, what you're actually searching for isn't necessarily a remote job alone, and it would be how you're spending your time in a way that actually fits more meaningful work. Flexibility just happens to be one of the things that needs to be a part of that fit. But if all the other pieces are good, for example, how you're getting to spend your day is at the right level of challenge?
• 6:36
  Are you working with people that you want to work with and getting to collaborate in ways that are good for you? Is the growth truly what you are looking for? All of those pieces, if those things are lining up, and it's really only the fact that you need to go back to the office, then of course, that means and mandates the only problem.
• 6:56
  And if that's you, then the conversation you actually need to have isn't about a job search, of course. It first starts with negotiation about your time and schedule and how you're doing the work. Now, a lot of times, when this occurs, usually organizations that are moving back to office, they have a whole well-thought-out campaign.
• 7:17
  Usually, they've had HR teams involved, people operations, legal, everybody else involved, and it's usually pretty well thought out. That said, just 'cause it's well thought out doesn't mean that you can't get an exception made for you. More difficult, yes. Impossible, no. In fact, 47% of companies with an RTO mandate are granting exceptions.
• 7:39
  Usually, it's for high performers, people that have specific health needs, and roles that don't require in-person presence. They just aren't advertising it publicly, and why would they? Okay, now, if you've listened to very many episodes of the podcast, you probably are already aware that a lot of what we talk about is how to get exceptions in situations that most people are not able to get exceptions, whether that's around negotiating salary, how your work gets done, negotiating a schedule, or even creating a role that is a phenomenal fit for you that wasn't in existence before.
• 8:17
  All of these situations tend to use the same types of skillsets and negotiation principles. If you wanna go deep on this, we have a link in the show notes and description where we talk about how to get a raise, and the negotiation process for that actually looks very, very similar overall. Again, it's all about getting exceptions made for you.
• 8:37
  The trick here is there's several things that have to be true for you to get an exception made for you in all these cases, including an RTO mandate. And the first thing to realize is this actually has nothing to do with you. It actually has to be a great situation for everybody involved. But that first major thing is you already have a strong relationship with your leader, your manager, you know, whoever else is part of this decision.
• 9:03
  If that relationship isn't there, then it's gonna be really difficult to, you know, have this exception granted in one way or another. This isn't something you can build in the moment that you need it. It's gonna be a spread over time and a lot of investment.
• 9:17
  Okay, thing number two, you're going to have to be able to ask in a way that allows them to say 'yes' without violating their own obligations, their own responsibilities. Now, this can be a pretty difficult part, and it's definitely a more advanced set of skills that are required here to be able to allow this to happen.
• 9:34
  Okay, the third thing is you're gonna be the one to do the footwork to make that yes possible. This means that you can't rely on your manager, you can't rely on your, you know, your director, you can't rely on your, you know, VP or the CEO or whoever, not HR. This is you who's gonna do this work. That's how exceptions get made for you.
• 9:55
  Let me give you an example of what this can look like in practice. You might schedule some time in advance and saying something like, "Hey, I'd like to talk to you about something important," rather than just addressing it on the fly.
• 10:06
  The reason for that is this creates all the psychological signals to show that this is something that's out of the norm, and they're going to give a different level of attention to it instead of just reacting in the moment. In the actual conversation, here's what this might sound like.
• 10:22
  It might sound like, "Hey, I totally understand that we have the return-to-office mandate. Totally understand the reasons for it. Generally, I think that I agree with a lot of components of it, and also simultaneously, I'm going to have a hard time being able to do this in the way that is being asked. So I wanted to be proactive and get your advice and help in navigating through this, because I would like to stay with the organization.
• 10:51
  That's actually really important for me, and I've had a really good track record here. I would love to figure out a way in which I can still work and have some of the pieces that I need while the organization and you get what you need, and we can be in compliance with the policies overall. I don't know what that's going to look like, but I'd love to have your help in navigating through that, and I'm more than happy to do the work to figure out what we need to do overall.
• 11:21
  What do you think would have to happen for me to still be able to work three days a week at home overall? Because that's going to allow me to be at my best, it's going to allow me to have the highest productivity, and ultimately, it's going to allow me to continue to stay at the organization in my role.
• 11:40
  Who do you think we would need to get involved? What would have to happen in order for us to go down that path? What are your thoughts?"
• 11:47
  Okay, so the language here that I'm using, this is partnership-type of language. Instead of putting it on my leader and saying, "Hey, you need to figure this out, otherwise I'm gone," or instead of me saying, "Hey, look, I'm gonna do 100% of the work here, and, you know, that's just what needs to happen," it becomes a partnership.
• 12:07
  We're asking for help. We're asking for support. Now, the interesting thing about when you ask for advice, or you ask for help in that particular way, is you often get a different level of collaboration overall if somebody else is trying to help you actively solve the problem versus saying, "Can we do this?"
• 12:26
  'Cause the answer to, "Can we do this?" might be no. The answer to, "What would it take to be able to do this? Can you help me figure that out? I'd love for your advice," could be completely different. But here's another part for why it's worthwhile to do this. Okay, so let's say that you're having this conversation, you're going through this process, you are actively engaging with all the folks that need to be in the loop on this.
• 12:50
  Then guess what? Yes, it might lead to making an exception for you and your situation, or if they can't make an exception in the end, then it might buy you a ton of time to be able to make a planned transition where you get to help your employer, the other people are involved, and maybe even backfill your role versus just a stay or go within the normal confines of the policy.
• 13:16
  I've seen this happen over and over again where people end up getting six or twelve months of notice, and they're helping to create a transition, and then they have their employer's full support to transition outside the organization because they understand you involved them, you were proactive, you already have the relationship, and you're the one doing the work.
• 13:36
  Pretty cool, right? Puts you in a different situation than what most people can imagine. Something to note, though, any exceptions here are usually a series of conversations. Most people imagine, "I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna, you know, have a conversation, I'm gonna ask, and they're gonna say yes or no, and that's gonna be it."
• 13:54
  That's not how it works in reality. Usually, it is that series of conversations in order to have something different done. Series of interactions. You might need to involve other people; you might need to do work in between that in order to make it successful so that people can say yes to you. It's also what makes this somewhat tricky.
• 14:13
  It's difficult to think about a strategy that's spread over many conversations versus just planning for a single one-and-done conversation. And that's one of the reasons I'd recommend getting professional support if something like this really matters to you, getting an exception to a return-to-office mandate.
• 14:29
  Here's another question to consider. Let's say that you just went back to the office. Could you live with that for 8, 10, 12, 18 months while you search intentionally for another role that could be a phenomenal fit? If that doesn't work, then it's a series of conversations about how to transition out intentionally without giving specific timeframes can be in order here.
• 14:52
  I also just wanna share that even though this is something that we do all the time, like we do this every single day, and this is really difficult, and I've seen it go badly when people don't have professional help in this situation. So advanced-level maneuver, even if you have a great relationship, this is one of those things you don't try at home unless you've done it many times before, or unless you're okay with being left in a situation where you don't necessarily have a job.
• 15:20
  That could be another situation in which, yeah, go ahead, and you're willing to experiment, and you're willing to have the learnings and repercussions of it going not as well as you want. What we've learned over the years since we started doing this, you know, first myself, 20 years ago, and then later on as we were doing it professionally with people, is that there's often a lot more here that becomes possible than what you might realize.
• 15:43
  For example, wouldn't it be a phenomenal situation to have that conversation, and even if it doesn't go well, have your employer's support while you spend the next 6 to 18 months transitioning? They know that that's happening. You're helping plan for it. You're in control of that. You get to influence it greatly.
• 16:05
  That never happens by accident, and it also is a situation that is exceptional. I've personally been in that situation, and we've helped many people be able to achieve that same thing. Some of those stories you might have heard on the podcast before. But here's the thing, if you do find yourself in that situation, then I would encourage you to search intentionally while you're still fully showing up at your current job.
• 16:29
  This usually starts with doing that Ideal Career Profile work first, before you apply to anything. We walked through the concept of minimums and ideals. Now, the worst version of a search here while employed is applying to whatever remote jobs you can find and hoping something sticks. Not a good plan.
• 16:40
  This usually starts with doing that Ideal Career Profile work first, before you apply to anything. We walked through the concept of minimums and ideals. Now, the worst version of a search here while employed is applying to whatever remote jobs you can find and hoping something sticks. Not a good plan.
• 16:46
  Having built that list first and having defined really specific criteria, often far more specific than you think you need to have, then you can define your minimums around flexibility and what that specifically means to you and why you actually need it. This first starts with defining the life that you're trying to build.
• 17:04
  That way, whatever work you accept next is going to naturally take you closer to that life that you're trying to build. Okay, having that criteria means that you can move fast when the right opportunity shows up because you're gonna know and recognize it without having to second-guess yourself in the moment.
• 17:20
  But more importantly than that, it's going to allow you to search for it in the real world. One other really important thing that you should know, too, especially as it relates to making a change around a return-to-office mandate. A lot of people, when they get to the interview process, will struggle with, "How do I talk about this? Should I talk about the fact that, you know, a return-to-office mandate caused this? Should I hide that fact? What should I do here?"
• 17:42
  Hiding the RTO mandate usually isn't the advice here. What matters more is how you share what actually happened. Generally, in any interview stories that we're creating, we want to make sure that it's productive– productive for you, productive for the people that you're talking to, and relevant.
• 18:00
  And if you already did the work to try to figure out if this mandate was gonna be possible for you to come back to work in a way that still allows you to build the life that you're trying to and do work in a way that really fits, well, then that actually makes a really great story. Here's what that might sound like.
• 18:18
  You know, back in January, our office had a return-to-office mandate, and they gave us about three months' notice, and I realized that that was not gonna work for me because I tend to work best when I have a lot of flexibility and autonomy to be able to decide what is going to be most effective with how I'm doing the work.
• 18:38
  I am much, much, much more productive and can deliver results far, far better. Plus, I also have small kids that often need to be shuttled around, and it works very well for me to be able to decide, "Hey, I'm gonna take my kid into school and pick them up on, you know, the weekday from 12:00 to 1:00, and then I'm gonna get back online and work, you know, from 5:00 to 7:00. That just works for me."
• 19:03
  So I realized this, and then I went in, I had a conversation with my manager, my manager's manager, and asked for their advice on what was gonna be needed in order to make an exception. At first, we thought that was going to go through, and we thought that that might be possible. But as we started to go further and further up the ladder and flesh out how that could be a reality, we discovered that it just didn't make sense.
• 19:26
  Didn't make sense for the organization, didn't make sense for me, and that was okay. What that led to is my organization supported me in making this transition. Okay, so let's pause for a moment there. That's a phenomenal story because very few people are gonna be able to do that. It shows that proactivity.
• 19:44
  It shows, you know, what you did, and it's true, and it's productive. They get a sense for how you work. You're not just gonna tolerate anything. You're gonna figure out how it can work best for all parties involved. Pretty cool, right? The framework that we actually use for this, by the way, is called situation, behavior, and outcome, and any of our interview episodes, we often reference that.
• 20:03
  It's the same framework for storytelling that Pixar used when they were creating things like Toy Story. Situation is the relevant backstory, often kept just to what's need to know. Behavior is the action that you actually took. What did you do in the situation? Outcome is, what is the result? What happened, and why does it actually matter how we're connecting those all together?
• 20:25
  In practice, like the answer that I mentioned earlier as an example, it sounds specific, not abstract. Let's go back to Monika's story. Monika did the internal work first. She got specific about what she was looking for, why she was looking for it, and that allowed her to recognize an opportunity when it was right in front of her when most other people would not have.
• 20:44
  It also means she didn't find work that fits through an application.
• 20:48
  Monika Herdlick: The current job, I never even applied for the position. I just started talking to somebody, let him know what my strengths were and what I was looking for, and he said, "Well, let's talk some more." And we kind of explored the space, and I was basically hired as a strategic hire.
• 21:01
  Scott Anthony Barlow: She was hired as a strategic hire, not because she applied to a posting, because she knew that she was looking for something very specific and knew so precisely enough to be able to articulate it to other people, and that articulation opened up a conversation that later turned into an offer. By the way, I'd just like to point out that this strategy, knowing what you want and being able to clearly articulate what you want and connect that back to real opportunities, always works.
• 21:29
  Whether the job market is up or down, no matter what's going on, it always works in all environments. Is it harder? Yes, absolutely. That's why most people in the world don't have work that actually fits them. Is it worth doing? Yes. Is it very effective? Yes. But let's go back to our RTO mandate that we started this episode with.
• 21:50
  In most cases, the RTO mandate itself probably isn't the thing that you're solving for. It's what finally got you to ask the question that you've been putting off. Is this work that you want to be doing? Is it the environment that you need for the next chapter of your life? I would encourage you to make sure that you're doing that internal work first and running towards something instead of just away from something.
• 22:11
  The people who come out of this with an improved situation aren't the ones who react the fastest. They're the ones who use this moment as a reason to finally do something that matches up with the life that they want to live. Your company handed you a hard deadline, and what you build with it is completely up to you.
• 22:27
  And by the way, if this episode resonated with you in any way, if you're currently facing a return-to-office mandate or you know somebody who is, feel free to share the episode with that person. Or if you want some support working through this, send me an email, Scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Put 'Conversation' in the subject line, and I'll connect you with a member of our team.
• 22:49
  The right member of our team. We'll get to know you, understand what your goals are, and figure out the very best way that we can help support you. Until next time, I'm Scott Anthony Barlow, and this is Happen To Your Career. Adios. I'm out.