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Prodigal Q & A Episode 55 The Redeemed Backslider · The Redeemed Backslider

• 0:00
  This episode has been sponsored by my friend and dentist, Dr.
• 0:04
  Craig Sedillo at Smile Visilia.
• 0:07
  If you're looking for a dentist, you won't find a better one in Tularie County.
• 0:11
  He specializes in all your dentistry needs, plus cosmetic dentistry and ortho.
• 0:17
  His phone number is 559-734-7035.
• 0:23
  If you call him, please tell him that Kathy from the Redeemed Backslider Podcast sent you.
• 0:28
  Thank you so much.
• 0:30
  Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:34
  With your host, Kathy Chastain, Christian-based psychotherapist in the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:42
  This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and freedom found in Jesus.
• 0:52
  Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:55
  I'm your host, Kathy Chastain.
• 0:57
  I'm a Christian-based psychotherapist and a redeemed backslider.
• 1:01
  Tonight I'm super excited.
• 1:03
  We're doing a round table with some of our first original guests.
• 1:08
  And um, we're just gonna go over what life has been like since all of us have come back to the Lord and come back to apostolic faith.
• 1:16
  Um, so Victor Milano, I just had a brain freeze.
• 1:21
  Victor Milano was episode 15.
• 1:24
  Um, he has been back for almost six years.
• 1:28
  His episode uh was about a promiscuous lifestyle.
• 1:32
  Uh, Reina has been back for almost two years, and she was episode five, and she comes from a same-sex relationship that God has delivered her from.
• 1:45
  And Carrie Rodriguez, Carrie was episode three.
• 1:49
  Um, she is a pastor's daughter who had been backslid for over 20 years, and she's been back for two years.
• 1:57
  And then we have uh Keith Battle.
• 2:00
  He was my very first episode, he was episode two.
• 2:03
  Um, he's been back for just a little over two years.
• 2:07
  He's also a preacher's kid, uh, raised, raised on the um missionary field, but did a lot of things.
• 2:19
  Um, and you know, his testimony is a little vague in his uh episode, but all of them spoke at our unshackled conference that we had in March.
• 2:30
  And so if you haven't watched the services of that conference, you can go to the Pentecostal Lighthouse Church in Viselia.
• 2:39
  We have a YouTube channel, and the Unshackled Conference is there, and all of them gave their testimony in a little bit more detail for that conference.
• 2:49
  Um, and so tonight we're just gonna kick this off.
• 2:52
  We're just gonna go around the table.
• 2:54
  I've created a list of questions for everybody.
• 2:57
  Um, but as I always say, if you know of a backslider, if you have a backslider in your family or know anyone, please please share this channel with them and maybe share this episode uh because we're gonna answer some questions that I think are on other people's minds as they think about coming back to apostolic faith.
• 3:19
  So um the first question is since your first interview, what has changed the most with your walk with God?
• 3:28
  Victor Mine was almost exactly a year ago.
• 3:35
  So um I would say mostly I thought about this today and I felt it was blessing.
• 3:44
  I felt like that I had felt a lot of blessing in the last 12 months.
• 3:50
  Um, you know, um, as you mentioned, I had already had six years, so I had already felt like I had fundamentally built my foundation with the Lord.
• 4:00
  This was He's my rock, and I'm I'm going the rest of the way, the rest of my life serving him.
• 4:06
  But um when you come back to the Lord, there's still seasons that you go through.
• 4:12
  And um, and I tell people all the time life isn't perfect when you come back to the Lord.
• 4:17
  Sometimes you're still reaping what you're sowing and what you did in the world.
• 4:21
  Um, but I started to start feeling a lot of those seasons starting to pass and the good seed was starting to to flourish.
• 4:31
  So I thank God for that.
• 4:32
  It wasn't an overnight thing, but I definitely in the last 12 months I have felt some healing um in mind, body, soul, spirit.
• 4:41
  Um, and I I believe the more we speak about the things of the Lord, um, it's healing for ourselves.
• 4:48
  So in a nutshell.
• 4:50
  Yeah, that's great.
• 4:51
  Reina?
• 4:53
  Um so the the question is in the last year, right?
• 4:59
  Um since the first interview, yeah.
• 5:01
  I think for me, looking back at that interview, um I've ha I've really grown in my boldness and confidence in my relationship.
• 5:10
  I think there was a lot of shame coming out of the lifestyle that I was living, and there was fear to be bold and unafraid about what God was doing.
• 5:20
  You know, people want to challenge it and question it and don't want to believe that that God can do that.
• 5:27
  So I think in the last year, I think a lot more boldness, a lot more confidence in in my relationship with God and who he is.
• 5:35
  And so I think that's truly been the last year or since the last interview.
• 5:40
  That's wonderful.
• 5:41
  And both of you guys are working in ministry in some way and winning souls, which is huge.
• 5:49
  Carrie?
• 5:50
  Um for me, I think mostly maturity in my relationship with God.
• 5:58
  Um you know, it's it's a learning process when you come back.
• 6:03
  It's a little different experience um when you've been out for so long and then you come back.
• 6:08
  So for me, I am learning every day.
• 6:11
  Um, but I do feel like I am maturing in my relationship though.
• 6:15
  And since my interview, I agree with both of them speaking about what we've been through and what he has brought us through is freeing.
• 6:26
  It's very freeing for your soul.
• 6:28
  And um, you know, it's it's it's just an experience that's just it's kind of hard to explain.
• 6:36
  But for me, I would mostly say probably just me maturing in my relationship.
• 6:41
  That's good.
• 6:42
  Keith?
• 6:43
  Well, for me, I would have to think back, I think back on that, and I think back I was fresh out of the program.
• 6:49
  Which program could you have a chance?
• 6:51
  Teen challenge program.
• 6:52
  Um, I was fresh out of the out of uh doing time and into the program.
• 6:57
  I did a year in teen challenge, and that's where I learned the fundamentals of how to become a Christian and how to be have a relationship with God that I never had before.
• 7:06
  So I think when I talked to you the first time, I didn't I was still learning that.
• 7:10
  I went through the whole year in the program, in the bubble of teen challenge, and it was beautiful and it was great.
• 7:16
  So when I had talked to you, I had just uh learned, I was learning, going through the learning process of uh being free.
• 7:25
  You know, I've been in uh living that life for such a long time, three years at uh three three terms in prison, in and out of prison, uh uh living on the streets, uh living that life.
• 7:36
  And so for me, for the last uh since we did the interview, uh working every day, um, doing what uh a normal citizen of society is supposed to do.
• 7:48
  Uh I haven't missed a day of church, you know, since um uh I was uh out of the program.
• 7:54
  And these are things that you learn in the program that you stay in the word, you surround yourself with people that love the Lord, and and uh and so for the things that I learned in the program, I've put to work in my life every day, and I haven't changed that.
• 8:11
  And so um that's what I've done to uh try to stay close to the Lord and to create this relationship with God, and that's the only thing that has kept me, I feel that has kept me and kept me stronger every day.
• 8:27
  Yeah, that's good.
• 8:28
  And uh, you know, for the people at home, we have a little group text.
• 8:33
  And one thing I will say that we've all done, I've certainly done it as well.
• 8:37
  I've been back in apostolic faith about five years.
• 8:41
  Um we all listen to a ton of preaching on YouTube, you know, and we're constantly sharing songs or TikToks or uh preaching messages, you know, with one another to keep us all encouraged.
• 8:57
  And so um, if any of you out there listening or anybody who might be thinking about coming back to church, there's really wonderful messages on YouTube that will encourage you and really speak to wherever you're at.
• 9:12
  And that's one thing we all do is we just really kind of immerse ourselves in the word and in messages.
• 9:19
  Um, I know that we all have done that, so I just thought I would mention that.
• 9:24
  Okay, next question.
• 9:26
  What was the what was harder than you expected about coming back to apostolic faith?
• 9:33
  Um I'll start with Raina this time.
• 9:37
  I thought we were going in a circle.
• 9:38
  No, I was kidding.
• 9:40
  Uh, what was harder than I expected?
• 9:44
  Honestly, returning to the church.
• 9:48
  Um I think allowing myself to be comfortable in the stages that I was in um was really hard for me.
• 9:56
  I was still transitioning out of my comfort, how I dressed, um, how I how, you know, my hair was growing out awkwardly.
• 10:05
  I had, you know, a buzz cut behind my head.
• 10:07
  Like I was uncomfortable in my own skin.
• 10:10
  And I think sometimes we know that we finally got God and it might will it might be easy because we have him, but there's people around us and we're afraid of what they're gonna think and what they're gonna say.
• 10:22
  And that was really hard for me because I I truly was really scared and probably paranoid in a sense of what people were thinking about me every time I went to church.
• 10:31
  And it really was hard to make consistent steps to going Sunday, Wednesday, you know, services, you know, service after service.
• 10:42
  You know, from the time that you had interviewed me prior to that, I mean, I had just started going back to church, but otherwise I was going through a lot of this transformation alone or with the person I was with at the time.
• 10:56
  And so a lot of things God was just dealing with me in my home or just wherever I was going for church.
• 11:02
  So when I finally planted my feet back in the church, you know, there's like this excitement that you're finally there, but at the same time, there's just there was so much um fear that people might not want to sit next to me or be around me or think of me still a certain way and not truly believe that God was delivering me.
• 11:23
  So I think your point about being comfortable in your own skin is so v important because when we leave, when we're in the world, whether we like it or not, you know, whether we're unhappy or not, we did develop some form of identity in that, right?
• 11:43
  And and that's what that's how we knew ourselves.
• 11:46
  And it's not that we wanted the world, it's that we found a place we felt like we fit to some degree, and then coming back, we clearly don't fit.
• 11:58
  We don't even know how to begin to fit.
• 12:01
  And I think that that is something that is an important topic to discuss because I can't be comfortable with everyone else if I'm not comfortable with me.
• 12:12
  And um you don't always know that when you sit next to somebody on the pew at church, you know, what the the internal wrestle with themselves they're having just to be there.
• 12:22
  So that's a really good point, Carrie.
• 12:27
  I 100% agree with Raina, and that's kind of where I was gonna go.
• 12:31
  Um, I I think the hardest part is when you've been out of church for so long and you do find a lifestyle or um, you know, and then you come back to church.
• 12:45
  The the coming back for me wasn't hard, but learning to be, I don't know, vulnerable is the right word, but just how to give yourself completely to him and not hold back, um, because it it it is a lifestyle and it it's you know it's a learning process.
• 13:09
  And that part was a little hard for me.
• 13:11
  I still struggle every day.
• 13:13
  Um so you know, uh, yeah, I mean that's that's pretty much it.
• 13:19
  It's just I I struggle every day.
• 13:21
  I think lifestyle is the key word.
• 13:23
  Lifestyle is that that is I think the word I was kind of searching for because we do find our little groove and it is a lifestyle.
• 13:32
  That's good.
• 13:32
  Yeah, and then when you're doing it alone as well, it's a little harder.
• 13:36
  Yeah.
• 13:36
  Um, you know, you have family in the world and you're trying to, you know, go the other way.
• 13:41
  And it's it's it can be difficult, but you know.
• 13:45
  Keith, what about you?
• 13:47
  As for me, I man, it hasn't been hard at all.
• 13:50
  You know, I I I love it.
• 13:52
  I love my relationship with God.
• 13:54
  Uh I love uh my life, I love my lifestyle.
• 13:58
  You know, when you've uh you live that life of uh that I lived for so long, and uh it's been a been a crazy wild and wild ride, you know, with the devil, and you know, and so it's time to live for the Lord.
• 14:12
  And you know, so I'm I'm enjoying this going to church uh as many times as I can a week.
• 14:19
  Uh make up places to go.
• 14:21
  I still am involved with teen challenge.
• 14:23
  I I've got guys that I'm working with constantly and getting them in teen challenge.
• 14:28
  I got girls that I'm getting involved with teen challenge.
• 14:30
  I just got done going to spiritual emphasis in Riverside.
• 14:34
  Uh, and I'll tell you what, I'm I'm excited every day, you know, about going uh and serving the Lord and loving the Lord and letting my light shine and and trying to help others just want to change in their life.
• 14:44
  So for me, uh not a bit of it's hard.
• 14:47
  You know, I don't have struggles.
• 14:48
  I don't have, I was talking to Raina today about how I just don't struggle.
• 14:52
  I don't have a uh wake up one day and want to have to use dope and look for the needle or look for drugs and alcohol.
• 15:00
  I just, you know, I just I'm excited about living for the Lord and I I know I need to do more and want to do more, but um, for me, I it's it's it's not hard, you know.
• 15:09
  So I'm living a different uh life and I and I do pray for others that do struggle with it because I want them to have what I have, you know, get past those struggles and let's start living uh living for the Lord and start helping others uh making it into the into the kingdom, you know.
• 15:24
  That's really good, yeah.
• 15:27
  Victor.
• 15:28
  Uh I would have to say being just blatantly honest and being 100% transparent.
• 15:35
  Because um, even though most of us have we had lived for the Lord at one time or we were a part of the church, we know that even in the church, there's an image, and then when you leave the church, you have a different image.
• 15:48
  And um, the thought of coming back is like, what's the image that I'm gonna portray?
• 15:54
  And it was a healing that was a to allow God to heal me, to come 100% transparent and drop the image and go, I don't care what anybody else thinks.
• 16:06
  This time around, I'm coming 100% for myself.
• 16:10
  Um, I don't need any validation from anybody but from Jesus.
• 16:15
  I need it from the Lord.
• 16:16
  I need to know that He's gonna forgive me and I can move forward because if I can't even accept that, it's hard to even forgive myself.
• 16:25
  Right.
• 16:25
  So um that learning to forgive myself and go, okay, everybody can know what I did.
• 16:32
  And and it's not something that you know you want to always portray, and it doesn't always have to be portrayed, but when you get that sense of healing, it just allows you to to move forward.
• 16:43
  Um, and it's not I say this just because it wasn't the easiest.
• 16:47
  And and I think that even today, there's still people, even in ministry, they don't want to hear everything, and they don't they don't want to know everything, and some of them can't even accept it, and that's okay, but that's why we're here today to to tell people that hey, I know what it's like, but God can and He will forgive, and He will use you not just as a vessel, but as a vessel of honor, right?
• 17:14
  Right, yeah, because I know that all of us sitting at this table are sold out, like we all left our egos and everything in order to do this because we all had uh enough, you know, there's just nothing like Jesus.
• 17:31
  So I you know, I know we're all sold out.
• 17:34
  So you're right.
• 17:35
  We get to that point where nothing else matters, you know.
• 17:39
  It affects us still because I think as humans we all want to be liked, we all want to belong.
• 17:45
  Um, but it's not gonna be a stumbling block like it was growing up, you know.
• 17:51
  Um, what is easier than you had expected it would be, Carrie?
• 18:00
  Um I think just knowing that the coming back.
• 18:13
  I mean the coming back was a what the it wasn't really hard as far as like coming back to the church.
• 18:19
  Um and coming back was was a lot easier than I expected as far as um the people in a church accepting you and being there for me um when I was at my lowest.
• 18:31
  Um I called, you know, the pastor's wife, and she immediately didn't question me, didn't she met me at the church in 30 minutes?
• 18:40
  Um so I think that part of it was I was just welcomed back.
• 18:44
  Yeah, I think that part was easy.
• 18:47
  I love that answer because we live as backsliders with the fear of judgment because we were judged backsliding, and so we come back worried about that.
• 18:59
  So I love that you said how welcomed that you were coming back.
• 19:03
  Yeah.
• 19:04
  Keith.
• 19:05
  For me, I think what is easier than I worried about for oh coming into it was my past intertwining into my uh current life, um, and being that I'm planted right in the middle of Tillarie County where um I was where I know everybody.
• 19:24
  There's nowhere I can go where I don't know everybody, and so I felt like I was going to run into uh the old influences that was going to not influence me in the wrong uh going in the wrong ways, but um uh make it a little hard for me in uh some of the decision making that I have made already, and my decisions made up.
• 19:49
  Uh I was out last Saturday and and went into uh ventured out into some of this, into the places that I haven't been in a long time.
• 19:57
  And it was great to feel and understand and and talk to some of the people I haven't talked to in a long time and let them see that how God has changed my life.
• 20:05
  And it was no uh I didn't have not one problem with them, and they were excited to see that the change was in my life, and they were happy to see that.
• 20:14
  And it was uh and it was encouragement for me when I left to to know that you know what, it's time for me to get start stepping out and uh getting back into the community and and letting them know that you know God does change lives and He has done this now for what a couple years.
• 20:30
  Yeah, you know, and I have it changed, I have a waiver there.
• 20:33
  They're waiting, you know, they're still out there waiting, you know, telling Rain to today.
• 20:37
  The devil's out there, you know, just like the Bible said, just waiting, just uh just uh just uh like a roaring lion, just when waiting for you to mess up and slip up because they're ready to accept you back into the into their into their uh into their fold.
• 20:50
  But um, we just got to stay the course.
• 20:53
  Right, yeah, good.
• 20:54
  What about you, Victor?
• 20:55
  What's been the easiest?
• 20:57
  Uh I'll have to tap on what you said, Carrie.
• 20:59
  So knowing that the the real people of God, the real Christians that know God's love are accepting and they're not judgmental, they know how to love, how God loves.
• 21:13
  And the Bible says where sin did abound, grace did much more abound.
• 21:18
  So the easiest thing for me was knowing that God, you're right there.
• 21:22
  The minute that I step back and I said, have grace on me, and I'm willing to come 100% to you.
• 21:31
  I felt the his grace is sufficient.
• 21:35
  If you're watching tonight, his grace is sufficient.
• 21:38
  The blood that he shed is enough.
• 21:42
  And and knowing that, that he forgives and he doesn't give us that spirit of condemnation.
• 21:49
  And so I love that about him.
• 21:51
  Very good, Raina.
• 21:54
  Um, I'm gonna go.
• 21:55
  I mean, Carrie and I are reading each other's minds because the minute you ask that.
• 22:00
  Question, I thought the easiest part was actually what I thought would have been the hardest.
• 22:05
  That was for me, but the people who who received me was the church.
• 22:09
  And it was me who was making it harder because the church actually received me with so much love and so much kindness, and they were patient.
• 22:19
  They were far more patient than I was expecting them to be.
• 22:22
  A lot of it was just the enemy working towards me to not keep me planted.
• 22:27
  And um in the end, I looked back and the church took me in with so much love.
• 22:34
  You know, same with, you know, pastor's wife.
• 22:36
  She was ready to start a Bible study with me right off the bat.
• 22:39
  She, you know, she was ready to take those steps that I needed.
• 22:43
  And then there was just, you know, you you really mentored me a lot, you know, coming into it, and then just developing that support, you know, Keith and Carrie and Vicky, you like God knew what I needed, and it was there in the church, and it wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be.
• 23:00
  And I found comfort and not only that, but the person that I was in a relationship with, married to, also eventually found that same comfort and that same support and salvation, thank God.
• 23:13
  And the church also received, you know, not just me back, but you know, that person back.
• 23:18
  So I think that says a lot about what we think is so hard when God's really in in the church and it's you know the right, the real Christians and the right, the real people, um, they will receive us with open arms and love.
• 23:33
  Yeah.
• 23:34
  Yeah, I think that's that's excellent.
• 23:36
  Yeah.
• 23:38
  Um what did people do that made you feel safe enough to come back?
• 23:43
  So I'm gonna start and answer this question uh because uh I never thought I would come back to an apostolic church.
• 23:52
  I I rededicated my life 30 years ago, but um I didn't go back to an apostolic church.
• 23:58
  I knew what I believed, I walked with God.
• 24:01
  I had already made a lot of changes in my life, um, but I didn't know I'd come back to an apostolic church.
• 24:09
  Um, but there is an anointing there that I've never felt anyplace else.
• 24:14
  And so for me, what made it safe for me to come back is I called the pastor before I ever came to church.
• 24:21
  And I asked him if it would be okay if I come.
• 24:25
  And I asked him specifically, can I come as I am?
• 24:28
  Because when I came back to church, I still wore big old hoop earrings and I wasn't, you know, prepared to um live the way I grew up.
• 24:38
  And part of that was because I searched the scriptures for many, many years, trying to understand what I was taught as a child, and um, because I wanted to do what was right, I wanted to follow God, and I wanted to not sin and I wanted to do all those things, but I needed to have a reason to believe it.
• 24:59
  I I didn't want it to be man's rules, and so um I I I was willing, you know, to be open to God.
• 25:09
  And so my pastor said, you know, come, you know, I'm just gonna ask you one thing, Kathy.
• 25:16
  And I said, Okay, what?
• 25:18
  He said, Would you just keep your heart open and let God do the work?
• 25:22
  And I said, Yes, absolutely, you know, and as I came back, it was very different than what I thought it was gonna be, and everything about it was different than what I thought it would be.
• 25:36
  And over time, all the things that I have changed uh to be part of my you know, apostolic faith um has been very organic from God.
• 25:49
  And I have talked with my pastor through every step of that.
• 25:53
  Um, and I'm super grateful for the changes God's made in my life, and they're real, you know.
• 25:59
  And so, and the ones that I'm still working on, you know, I'm still looking for answers for.
• 26:06
  And and some of it is just I've learned to just um follow my pastor as he follows God.
• 26:14
  So, anyways, that's what I did.
• 26:17
  Um, so um, Keith, when what did what did people do for you that helped you feel safe to come back?
• 26:25
  Was there apprehension for you in in coming back?
• 26:29
  It may there may not have been, but for some of us, I think there definitely was.
• 26:35
  Well, I think um, you know, I've been on the news quite often.
• 26:42
  And so for me So for those of you that don't know Well, I wouldn't call it call it that, but it was the you know I that you you you in your lifestyle that I lived, I hit the news quite often.
• 26:55
  Um I was in there for some some pretty bad things, and so I still struggle with that at times, and even I was think I even talked to Raina.
• 27:05
  Me and Raina talk a lot.
• 27:07
  He doesn't he d hey he doesn't call me anymore.
• 27:09
  I guess I got replaced.
• 27:12
  So we these uh so you so you get to you want to give your testimony, and you I don't I don't have a problem giving my testimony, but I am a little um I don't give my whole testimony because you don't want to scare people, you don't want to scare everybody off because uh, you know, I am a I am changed, you know.
• 27:31
  I am not uh I did fight a death penalty case, uh murder case.
• 27:37
  Uh and um when you get into that, people start looking at you like, oh my, you got you know, you got off on it, they don't know the whole particulars on everything, but um, you know, but you do give your testimony at church, you know, and we did did the unshackled uh convention, and you told us to be a little, you know, uh raw in that, and and we and we were a little bit, and so you you sit there sometimes and you you worry about what people think and what people might say, but I'll tell you what, um, I think I've had an enormous amount of people come up and just are more open to it.
• 28:16
  I'm sure the ones that are not open to it probably just don't say nothing, you know, because they think I'm gonna do something, but I'm not.
• 28:23
  Um, but you know, I think the the the um the fact that people are open to the fact that, hey, you know what, you've given your testimony and you are changed and you have been transparent and uh you are a changed person and you are getting on with your life, and uh it's it's been a lot easier than I thought that it would be in that manner.
• 28:45
  So you feel safe, and even knowing now that people know some of your history, I feel safe, but I still am cautious and I'm guarded.
• 28:53
  I I have to be honest with you on that.
• 28:56
  I am still cautious and guarded.
• 28:57
  I don't tell everyone everything.
• 29:00
  Um, I don't think that that's wise to do.
• 29:03
  Yeah, but I think that at times when the time is right and the and the person I'm talking to, and I felt led of the Lord to be able to uh when we have uh guys that come in and I see the tattoos uh all the way up, and even though I'm a convict with no tattoos, I'm able to speak their language really quick.
• 29:21
  And once I get to talk to them, I'm able to uh let them understand where I've come from and gives them a little feeling of comfortableness where they're at in the church.
• 29:30
  And that's why our church is having revivals because you are comfortable there.
• 29:34
  You know, we don't just have a certain kind of person that goes to our church anymore.
• 29:39
  We have a uh a revival church, and it's because we have that feeling of hey, it's comfortable to come to our church and be uh dented and dinged up and and stuff.
• 29:51
  So yeah, it's and we and we all reach out to these people when we see them come in church because we see that all over them, you know, and that's our job is to that's why God put us in the kingdom.
• 30:02
  That's why God saved us and that's why he put us here.
• 30:04
  He just didn't give us a break, you know, and didn't decide to put me in prison for the rest of my life.
• 30:09
  He put me there for a reason, and that's to be able to go talk to the to the lost and the and the and the ones that feel like they've can't make it through life, you know.
• 30:18
  Yeah, very good.
• 30:20
  Victor, what what made you feel safe as you decided to come back to church?
• 30:26
  Uh I would have to say good leadership, good people, support people, um, whether they're friends or family in your life.
• 30:34
  Um, you know, it's important to surround yourself with the right people.
• 30:39
  I know I can vouch for my own pastor and your pastor because I know both wonderful men of God that have um they have that openness that if you're gonna come back to God, they're not gonna diminish who you are in the kingdom.
• 30:56
  And so it made it easy for um when I came back that I was allowed to to to work in ministry, although with the discretion and and and you know the leadership of of the right people.
• 31:10
  And to some of your points, Keith, I I was thinking, what what a great point because that you were making we have to have that spirit of discernment as we allow God to start use us using us and who we are gonna tell our whole testimony to.
• 31:25
  And and even though we were part of the conference and and we gave a shout out to that, there was a purpose for it.
• 31:30
  But on a one-on-one level, when I'm ministering to someone, I I'm I try to use that discernment.
• 31:36
  What's the right time and what's the right um way to to give someone uh whether it be my testimony, because I always just want to make sure that I'm I'm giving glory to God and not to myself.
• 31:48
  Very good.
• 31:49
  Raina?
• 31:50
  Yeah, I'll go off of what Victor said, which is good leadership.
• 31:55
  I think um pastor just allowed me to request time to ask him questions, you know, when I needed it.
• 32:03
  I took some time away and I asked, you know, can I can I talk to you?
• 32:08
  I got a list of questions, I have things I've been praying about, and he made that comfortable for me, you know.
• 32:13
  And Bishop was my pastor when I left, and he just every time he saw me, you know, coming back, he just welcomed me with so much love.
• 32:20
  And, you know, I don't know his last perception of me, you know, before I left.
• 32:24
  And it was like, you know, I just saw him the day before, you know, he just welcomed me with the hug and you know, with a smile.
• 32:32
  And so I think I think the leadership, you know, or the people who oversee us, and that should be the first place that we really feel comfortable with.
• 32:41
  And I think our pastors have done a great job.
• 32:44
  I think also, too, that a lot of people who stayed in the church who didn't backslide are realizing that, you know, us coming back, it's almost like resourceful for them because I know someone, you know, I have a family, like they're able to become more open about it.
• 33:00
  And I think that's welcoming because they're like kind of relieved that they can finally talk to somebody about what they've been through or what you know, that they can relate and share that.
• 33:10
  So I think that welcomes conversation.
• 33:12
  And I think the church is more receiving toward you receiving conversation about what we've been through versus kind of putting a wall up and you know, acting as though they don't know anyone who's gone through what I've gone through or what you've gone through.
• 33:25
  They have, and it's good to hear that there's hope.
• 33:27
  So I think that they've the church has just been really great with making it comfortable.
• 33:33
  Yeah.
• 33:33
  Very good.
• 33:34
  Carrie.
• 33:36
  Um, I agree with all of that.
• 33:38
  So I I also feel like the the leadership that we have at the church is just, you know, ordained by God because prodigals are coming home.
• 33:48
  Yeah, and um they want you to come as you are, feeding off what you said.
• 33:55
  Um, you know, come as you are, because your dad used to tell me that all the time.
• 34:00
  We don't like like I agree.
• 34:02
  I love seeing all the different types of people.
• 34:06
  Like to me, that is more exciting than just walking into church and everybody looks the same.
• 34:10
  Every like I love seeing visitors.
• 34:13
  I love, I just I love it.
• 34:15
  It makes my heart happy.
• 34:16
  But the, you know, come as you are, because you you come as you are, you get a relationship with God.
• 34:23
  God does if he wants you to change, he'll change you.
• 34:27
  And you will start feeling conviction.
• 34:29
  You will start thinking, you know, I need to change that in my life.
• 34:32
  But it's better coming from God than a person.
• 34:35
  Right, right.
• 34:35
  But on that note, I will say that the leadership is there to guide you.
• 34:40
  So I don't wanna, I don't wanna say that don't listen to your pastor because they are that it that is his job is to guide you.
• 34:46
  But I do feel like pretty much everyone at this table has said that it comes from within as well.
• 34:51
  So come as you are.
• 34:53
  Yeah, yeah.
• 34:54
  I I agree.
• 34:55
  Yeah, we are all very fortunate.
• 34:57
  And I think, you know, for anyone listening at home, we've all been to lots of different churches.
• 35:03
  I think overall in the apostolic world, uh, there's a lot of prodigals coming back to different churches, and there are a lot of wonderful pastors out there who are, you know, have great leadership as well.
• 35:16
  And and church is gonna be so different than what it was when you were young, you know.
• 35:21
  I always I always tell people, give it another shot, because now that you're an adult, you're gonna see it different.
• 35:27
  It's gonna, it's just gonna hit different.
• 35:29
  And uh, people have matured over the years since you were a kid.
• 35:34
  Um, okay, what do churches need to understand about prodigals and backsliders?
• 35:41
  Um, and and I, you know, I've looked up what the difference is between a prodigal and a backslider.
• 35:48
  And I think, you know, prodigals kind of drift away, but they don't really leave the Lord, they just kind of leave the father's house.
• 35:56
  And I guess backsliders are the same, so forgive my uh double words there.
• 36:01
  But um what do you guys think?
• 36:05
  You know, we have great leadership at our church, but we also all have been around apostolic faith for many years um growing up in this.
• 36:14
  What do you guys feel like the biggest opportunity for for other churches to understand about prodigals um coming back?
• 36:25
  Um is it Victor's turn?
• 36:27
  Yeah, you start first.
• 36:29
  Uh I w I would have to say that it just absolutely doesn't matter what a backslider or a prodigal has done.
• 36:40
  It just doesn't matter.
• 36:41
  There's nothing too far gone, and it's a soul.
• 36:46
  It doesn't matter what the outward appearance looks like, it doesn't matter what people know, it's that God loves them and God's reaching for them.
• 36:55
  And we ought to be that that um that tunnel or or that that that also that reach of the body that that has the kind of love that he has.
• 37:08
  And um, I mean, I I that's all I could say is that it we have to be completely 100% unbiased when people walk in our doors.
• 37:16
  Yeah.
• 37:17
  And I know with our church, our pastor, you know, really kind of spoke for months about the elder brother and and really being prepared to receive the prodigal and and and really taught lengthy, you know, several several messages at a time um on being the church that loves, you know.
• 37:40
  And so that was, I think, super helpful.
• 37:42
  We just have a great church, but but yeah, that's good.
• 37:46
  It it's hard, I think, for people that have been in church their whole life, they don't they don't know how to talk to someone that's different than them because they just don't have, you know, point of connection or any point of um understanding.
• 38:02
  But I would say, you know, even though you may not be able to relate to them, just say hi, you know, ask them their name, and even if they look scary, you'll find that most of them are very nice.
• 38:16
  Yeah, they're just people.
• 38:18
  Yeah.
• 38:18
  Go ahead, Raina.
• 38:20
  Yeah, um what do churches need for money?
• 38:24
  So I was listening, I forget the question.
• 38:26
  Um I think a lot of again what Victor said, and I think um gentleness and time.
• 38:34
  I think um you know, you know, I think for me, I needed there was a lot of time that I needed again.
• 38:40
  I'm I wasn't just transitioning internally, you know, spiritually, but again, my my physical was changing too.
• 38:49
  You know, I was trying to learn how to be more comfortable with myself and certain things, and we have to give time for that versus outside to change.
• 38:59
  Yeah, for the outside, for just, you know, yeah, that comfort in knowing that tomorrow I don't expect you to look like this or act like this or or do this.
• 39:08
  You're giving time to the to the prodigal, to the backslider to just come to the Lord.
• 39:13
  And I mean, we're we're coming in vulnerability and in repentance for our life and the things that we've done.
• 39:19
  So we need that gentleness towards us and we need time to heal and walk in our own convictions, you know, and what God's wanting to do with with me, you know, and and in my time.
• 39:34
  So I think just gentleness and and time.
• 39:37
  Yeah.
• 39:38
  Can I say something?
• 39:40
  I think even internally, like spiritually, because sometimes people come back or are starting to come back, and they're they're not gonna they're not gonna repent that night.
• 39:51
  Right.
• 39:51
  Right.
• 39:52
  And and I I can think of a time where I just started coming back to church and getting comfortable, and the conviction of God is starting to really penetrate my heart.
• 40:01
  And so it's important that we allow people to still come through the door and not have our own expectation of a time when you need to repent and get get your heart right.
• 40:12
  Let God continue to move on them.
• 40:15
  Very good, very good.
• 40:16
  Carrie.
• 40:18
  Um my first thought when I heard that question was there's a reason they're there.
• 40:25
  So they need prayers.
• 40:28
  I agree.
• 40:29
  You don't want to rush them and be like, we're going to the altar.
• 40:33
  They may not be ready for that, but they're there.
• 40:36
  So the most important thing is they made the decision to walk in those doors.
• 40:41
  So I think the church needs to, that was the question, right?
• 40:45
  What is the church?
• 40:46
  Yeah.
• 40:46
  Um, there's a reason they're there and just pray for them.
• 40:50
  Yeah.
• 40:50
  Because it's hard.
• 40:51
  And it's hard coming back that first time sometimes is not easy.
• 40:56
  And I'm gonna add, one thing I always hated about going when I was out in the world and I looked like the world, um, was people would always try to pray me through to the Holy Ghost because of how I looked on my outside.
• 41:12
  When internally I had a deep relationship with God because I was, I did have a relationship and I was committed.
• 41:21
  I was just going to a different, non-denounced, you know, different kind of church.
• 41:25
  And um, I remember someone came up to me one time and laid their hands on me, which I struggle with.
• 41:34
  Um, but it's just because of so many negative experiences I've had, but and you know, just told me to surrender and give it all to God, and you know, basically was saying, let go of the world, you know, which where I was at that time, it wasn't about worldliness, you know, the worldliness was always a reflection of my own brokenness.
• 42:02
  And um, so I would say to be really careful when a backslider comes to the altar, um, because that can be very damaging.
• 42:15
  And um, we could really we could really hurt them in that way.
• 42:20
  And we're not victims, like we all we all know ourselves, we all own our issues, and backsliders aren't coming back to be a victim, but there is deep wounds that need to be healed, and God does that in time.
• 42:35
  So, you know, maybe ask for permission if if you could pray with them and definitely don't tell them, you know.
• 42:43
  Well, can I add something?
• 42:44
  Yeah, because in regards to that, like when I said pray for them, I didn't mean physically.
• 42:49
  Well, they might not understand.
• 42:50
  Right, I meant just pray for them.
• 42:52
  Yeah, you know, because they they may not be ready for that, they may not want to go to the altar, they may not want you to pray for them.
• 42:59
  So you just pray for them yourself is what I meant.
• 43:02
  Yeah, from a distance, from a distance, Keith.
• 43:05
  Go ahead.
• 43:06
  Well, you guys know I I bring as many people as I can every service, and some are prodigals, uh, some are sinners, some are um just anything and everything.
• 43:18
  And so I sit back there and I'm on pins and needles, and I sit back there for a reason, um, because I want my c I want them to feel comfortable where they're at.
• 43:30
  I want them to be in the Holy Ghost splash zone is cool.
• 43:34
  It's a good place to be.
• 43:35
  And I call that you know, up there on the third and fourth row, it's a good place to be.
• 43:39
  You know, you know, you get you get you to go to you know, I always say that because you go to SeaWorld and you get in the splash zone, you know, you're gonna get got.
• 43:46
  That's good.
• 43:46
  But um, you get in the back, and so I want them to be comfortable because I want them to come back.
• 43:51
  Right, yeah, because I'm there for the long haul with them.
• 43:53
  I'm working with them every day.
• 43:54
  I call them up every day and I'm encouraging them.
• 43:57
  And it's a job to have five or six people on the Hook uh trying to get them to come to church and make it encouraging them to come.
• 44:04
  And so I the church is do does their job when they come, they see you know the girls in the hoochie looking, you know, dresses or whatever they might be.
• 44:16
  And I got a few of them gonna be coming here real soon.
• 44:18
  And and I I even have to I even tell them, girl, you better put on some clothes because we're going to apostolic church, and you know, and I can talk to these girls because I know these girls really good, you know, and then they all right, all right, all right, battle, I could do that.
• 44:32
  You know, but but I want them to still feel comfortable in doing it, but and then in turn, I can't have the them.
• 44:39
  I want the church needs to know that you know, when they're there, we want them to be comfortable enough to where you can't just come up and snatch them up and just yank them to the front.
• 44:48
  And you know, it's good if it works.
• 44:50
  We're happy like, yeah, it works, and it's a good thing, but it is sometimes it works, but yeah, but then again, I've had them not come back for weeks at a time too.
• 45:00
  You know, gotta take them to lunch three or four times and talk them into it and come on, you give them a$20 bill and help them with their car, you know, you know, do different things to help them.
• 45:11
  Come on, you can make it, you can do this.
• 45:13
  But um, yeah, I think the churches uh uh they need to be a little bit mindful of you know, they're they're they're uh and and and they're good.
• 45:21
  Our church is pretty good about doing that, but we do have a few that um well, you know, you I'm I'm I'm back there, you know, playing catcher, you know, like well, you know, but I would you know, and then when the time is right, I feel when you're in the presence of God and you're following the and you're following the Lord, there's a time.
• 45:40
  Right.
• 45:40
  And and um I'd rather just reach over right there in the back with them and put my arm around them and and just pray for them right there and and let them get feel that press.
• 45:51
  They feel the presence of God already.
• 45:53
  You know they do.
• 45:55
  So it's just that little bit more.
• 45:56
  And the next time, hey, you want to go up to the front, you know, then start encouraging them a little bit.
• 46:01
  But yeah.
• 46:03
  Yeah, good.
• 46:04
  I want to say something.
• 46:06
  Well, you said something, and it's very important because it's not that we're saying don't pray physically for people, because sometimes the unction of the Holy Ghost is gonna tell you to go and pray for somebody, but that's a little bit more, you know, you're talking about the gifts of the spirit and fruits of the spirit as God begins to use you.
• 46:26
  But what to what you said is very important that sometimes it's just a matter of saying, Can I have permission?
• 46:34
  Right, is there something that you need right now?
• 46:36
  And you'll be surprised once the Holy Ghost is there helping you and you ask the question, they're either going to open up or they're gonna say, No, not right now.
• 46:45
  They open up, that's the door that says, Hey, let's move just a little bit further.
• 46:49
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good.
• 46:51
  Very good.
• 46:52
  Um, what kind of support does someone need after they recommit?
• 46:59
  Not just after they go to the altar, but after they've decided, okay, they're gonna start coming, you know, they're there for two to three services.
• 47:09
  Uh, what kind of internal support is needed?
• 47:13
  Did you guys need after you decided you were gonna be coming?
• 47:19
  Right now.
• 47:22
  Um, I think discipleship.
• 47:24
  I think um we need people to disciple us and mentor us, especially for me.
• 47:30
  You know, I thought when I was younger, I had a whole relationship with the Lord, and the reality was I didn't have that deep of a relationship with the Lord.
• 47:39
  I didn't know a lot, I didn't understand a lot, and finally getting into the word coming back, it was so alive, but there were still, I still needed discipleship, and um, you know, I don't think we have that as much as we need it.
• 47:53
  There should be a constant movement of gathering and fellowshipping and talking about the Lord and what we're reading and reflecting on, how are we applying it?
• 48:02
  And I'm trying to do that with the girls in our Bible study, where as much as I'm learning, how am I applying, and I'm trying to teach that to some of these girls who are coming to the Lord and you know learning their relationship.
• 48:16
  And you know, sometimes they have these epiphanies that they they didn't have when they were reading.
• 48:21
  So we need that um that fellowship and that discipleship.
• 48:25
  We can't just be content with the praying through and you know, and and that's it.
• 48:30
  We'll see you on Sunday and we'll see you on Wednesday.
• 48:32
  We should be in group messages, we should be sharing encouragement, we should be gathering.
• 48:37
  And again, I think that is the most important um thing that that we need, that I needed, I still need, you know.
• 48:44
  So yeah, for sure.
• 48:45
  Carrie Um, I agree.
• 48:49
  Um having even just like our group chat that we have, like you were saying, it's it's very supportive.
• 48:55
  And I look forward to those.
• 48:57
  It's nice to have friends that you can share things with.
• 49:02
  And um I think you know, exactly what Raina said, we need to be more involved.
• 49:09
  And um, you know, you need to have someone you can bounce things off of and vent with and someone who understands.
• 49:17
  And so I'm very thankful for the people sitting at this table because you guys are my people.
• 49:22
  Oh, I'm glad to be someone's people.
• 49:24
  But but it but it is nice.
• 49:26
  Like I I think sometimes of things I'm like, oh, I'm gonna share that with the group, you know.
• 49:30
  So, you know, I I think that that's important, having having people or a person that you that you can do that with.
• 49:38
  Yeah, yeah.
• 49:39
  And it'd be nice, like with a church, going back to what does the church need to know?
• 49:45
  Churches, you know, that have prodigals coming back is what is that next step for people once they start coming.
• 49:53
  Go ahead, Keith.
• 49:54
  If I get into one more uh group chat, I'm gonna get tired.
• 50:00
  But I I think it's you like ours.
• 50:03
  No, but I'm a part of like 18 other ones.
• 50:06
  I find myself on the road all day.
• 50:09
  But that's good.
• 50:10
  It's for me, it's it's an awesome thing because it encourages me all day.
• 50:13
  I encourage others all day, and and so I think that we we um uh throughout the day, that's the only thing that really keeps us going a lot of times, is uh is these group chats and stuff.
• 50:24
  It's amazing to me.
• 50:25
  Uh it helps us uh and I think these new prodigals that come on board, uh that's a must.
• 50:31
  And they have to be surrounded, you have to surround yourself.
• 50:33
  You know, when we're in the world, we are constantly 100% talking to the homies, we're talking to the I mean, there is not we if I I I didn't sleep for three days and I slept for one day.
• 50:46
  I that's what that's what I did, that's how I did my drugs.
• 50:49
  I would stay up for three days and I didn't and I would go down for one day.
• 50:53
  And I didn't even want to go down the one day because I was missing out on the one day because I felt like, oh, what's going on?
• 50:58
  And I'd have to just catch up on that one day of what was going on, you know, but on the in the world, and that's what you do in the world, that's how you live that life.
• 51:06
  But and this is the way we live our life, you know.
• 51:09
  We surround ourselves in that positive uh influence of of what's going on.
• 51:14
  And I mean, we're constantly, hey, where's the next church service?
• 51:16
  And where's the next uh revival?
• 51:18
  Where's the next uh uh um uh uh gathering and what what time are you guys gonna be at church tonight?
• 51:24
  How come you ain't coming?
• 51:25
  And you know, why why why weren't you there tonight?
• 51:27
  You get well, you were there late.
• 51:29
  Why?
• 51:29
  You know, why were you late?
• 51:31
  You know, do you know what time it is?
• 51:32
  You know, and yeah, and so and so it's a good thing to to have that because it's a different, it's a different world that we live in now, and that's what we live.
• 51:40
  This is our life now, this is the life I choose.
• 51:43
  And then and I and I like I told you guys earlier, I love it.
• 51:46
  This is the way I want to live.
• 51:47
  Yeah, and it's not because I have to live like this, it's not because someone's telling me I'm single, I live on my own, I can do anything I want, anytime I want, whenever nobody tells me what I do.
• 51:57
  This is the way I choose to live because I want to live this way, because I love the Lord and the relationship that I have with the Lord, it makes me feel good inside.
• 52:06
  So, this is why we do what we do, right?
• 52:08
  So that's awesome.
• 52:10
  You could preach, love it, Victor.
• 52:15
  I would have to say friendship.
• 52:16
  Yeah, it you you you have to make friends with people who come to your church.
• 52:24
  Um, and those of you that are watching or don't know us, we're not a clique.
• 52:30
  And churches have to get rid of their cliques.
• 52:34
  The last time I hung out with you was January.
• 52:37
  Yeah, we're in May, but we we're in a chat that supports each other, that loves each other.
• 52:42
  Um, and so that being said, we're not a clique because we're we're busy doing God's work or within our churches or other ministry or family or friends.
• 52:51
  But you know, uh, I tell my sons who are in ministry, have you made a friend with that person?
• 52:57
  Have you taken them out?
• 52:58
  And it's important that when people come to our church, that we connect them and that we're not just praying with them in the altar and um not just giving them a Bible study, but we're saying, Hey, you want to go out to eat.
• 53:11
  And and I recently um started doing a new converts class and just having those people stay till midnight because if you'll say, tell me a little bit about you, they'll open up and they'll just share their whole story.
• 53:26
  And now that's another walk that God will allow you to minister or to disciple.
• 53:32
  So friendship is very important.
• 53:33
  Till midnight.
• 53:34
  Yeah.
• 53:36
  Not every day.
• 53:37
  Yeah, we're early birds.
• 53:39
  Wow.
• 53:43
  That's so good.
• 53:44
  Yeah.
• 53:45
  All right, you guys, what spiritual disciplines have helped you stay grounded?
• 53:51
  Um, Carrie, do you want to start?
• 53:53
  You were gonna start with I start with you last time.
• 53:56
  Okay.
• 54:00
  You know, I would have to say reading my Bible every day.
• 54:06
  Um because there have been days I've missed, and I can tell.
• 54:14
  So I would say reading, I I try to start my day every day, my morning, um, reading my Bible before I start my day, um, praying.
• 54:23
  But most like I read my Bible.
• 54:26
  I would say for me, that's probably yeah.
• 54:28
  Yeah.
• 54:29
  And as we go through this, because I think most of you guys are gonna say that answer, but did you read your Bible growing up?
• 54:36
  Uh is not very new for you.
• 54:39
  This is new for me, yeah.
• 54:40
  Yeah, but like, but like this is going back to what you said, you know, a while ago.
• 54:44
  Like, I'm figuring it out for myself.
• 54:47
  Like, I want to I want to know what's in the scriptures.
• 54:50
  I don't want to just take someone's word for it, although I do my pastor's amazing.
• 54:54
  Our pastor's amazing.
• 54:56
  Um, you know, my dad, the bishop, like we have great leadership, but read your Bible because it will it's it's gonna it's gonna be different than it was.
• 55:08
  Um, I I can read my Bible now and it makes sense a little bit.
• 55:12
  Right, right.
• 55:12
  There are things I read where I'm like, hmm, but you know, read your Bible.
• 55:17
  That that's just that's all I can say.
• 55:19
  For me, that's that's what's helped.
• 55:20
  Okay, good.
• 55:21
  Keith.
• 55:22
  Well, yeah.
• 55:23
  I mean, you get you read the word, and you know, I just I get on myself all the time because I don't do it enough, you know, and because you want to do it more, you want to do it, I keep my Bible in my work truck or my work car, wherever it's at at all times.
• 55:36
  And I because I always plan on pulling over and reading the word because I but I don't, I don't, I have to be honest with you.
• 55:43
  But there is times that I do just to have it next to me uh in the side of the thing where I can see it.
• 55:49
  Uh sometimes I do grab it and pull it over and pull it open, and it's nice to to have it there.
• 55:54
  But just to for me, uh, I think what did you what was the question?
• 55:59
  What what are spiritual disciplines that you use to stay grounded?
• 56:02
  For me, honestly, I am 100% daily, and it's just my lifestyle.
• 56:08
  It's just I I wake up in the morning, I'm I'm in love with the Lord, and so I just uh I wake up in the morning thinking about the Lord.
• 56:15
  I mean, I I watch the news and feel guilty about that, you know, and but I I do like the news, and so I'll watch the news, but I get in the car and it's a new world.
• 56:23
  Once I hit my car, it's a you know, I I've got I got uh preaching on, I got I got uh uh uh none of my radio.
• 56:31
  I don't I can't tell you the last time I listened to the normal radio, you know, the other day I said I'm gonna do something really crazy.
• 56:38
  And I thought I'd train KMJ 580, you know, like blowing it, you know.
• 56:43
  That's talk radio for anyone that doesn't know.
• 56:45
  You know, which is Ray Appleton, I think it was.
• 56:48
  But um, but it's just it's just something that we don't do, you know.
• 56:51
  So and every night, every night, no matter what, and I've been doing this from I go to sleep with uh YouTube preaching, someone preaching, someone one I don't ever go to sleep without it.
• 57:02
  I have to get up at three o'clock in the morning and go, what's waking me up?
• 57:05
  And it's some preacher getting with it somewhere, like I can't sleep with this on anymore, you know, and so I turn it off.
• 57:11
  But I think that if you surround yourself uh with this on a regular basis, it's it's easy to stay on track with the Lord.
• 57:18
  Yeah, but I want to add something because I think you might have forgot, but you fasted a ton.
• 57:24
  Yes, I'm getting and I'm getting ready.
• 57:26
  I mean, I I I would and I still believe I still do that, and so now I am in a in a in a uh I run I get through these, I go through these, do I do it for my health?
• 57:39
  You know, so or do I do it for for the Lord?
• 57:41
  So I start start feeling guilty about well, am I am I doing this for my health or am I doing it for the Lord?
• 57:47
  But um, I think I'm telling you, fasting is the key for to for your spirituality.
• 57:53
  I am convinced 100%, and I talk to Reed Mendez all the time about it.
• 57:57
  And if you want something changed in your life and you want something done, and what's crazy, we don't do it.
• 58:02
  We got the we got the we got the key, we got the remedy, we know exactly what to do.
• 58:07
  And we sit here and we know fast, fast three days, fast four days, fast seven days, and you think, oh, I can't do it.
• 58:14
  You can do it.
• 58:16
  You will have change in your life if you fast and pray.
• 58:19
  It happened every time I have ever fasted, God has changed something in my life.
• 58:24
  Yeah, and it's like, why don't we do this once a month and just get everything we need and what we want in our life?
• 58:29
  You know what, but we don't.
• 58:30
  The things we would have.
• 58:31
  Yes, the things that we would have.
• 58:34
  Yes.
• 58:34
  Okay, so the question is what spiritual disciplines have helped you stay grounded?
• 58:42
  Spending time alone with the Lord has helped me.
• 58:46
  Um I make it a point that I spend time alone time with God.
• 58:51
  Um, and I've talked to you about it where you know I'll I'll shut the whole world out for a day, two days.
• 58:58
  I think you you even recently did it.
• 59:01
  Um turn off your phone.
• 59:02
  You'll be surprised how much God wants to spend time with you.
• 59:08
  And a lot of times we are, and it's great to watch YouTube and other preachers and and music and all that is wonderful, but you'll be surprised how much revelation God will give you if you will spend alone time with Him and His Word.
• 59:24
  He will begin to speak to you and He'll give you revelations that you can get from the best preacher, the best speaker.
• 59:32
  He'll just start to reveal things to you.
• 59:35
  And I didn't when I was younger before I left the Lord, I was always aspiring to, oh, what's this preacher gonna preach, or what's that convention, or what's that gonna be about?
• 59:47
  And the Lord convicted me about a year ago when I was gonna have to speak, and I was like, Man, I I couldn't get something, but then I realized the Lord just like spoke to me, He said, You'll just spend some time with me.
• 59:59
  Yeah, I'll give you the right word, and that's just how God is.
• 1:00:04
  He'll he'll he'll he'll give you what's right for you and what you're going through and your situation.
• 1:00:10
  Yeah, that's great.
• 1:00:11
  Yeah, imagine doing that for 40 days.
• 1:00:14
  Wow.
• 1:00:15
  Right?
• 1:00:16
  Yeah, yeah, that's crazy, right?
• 1:00:18
  When you think about it, yeah.
• 1:00:19
  Have you done 40 days?
• 1:00:20
  No.
• 1:00:21
  Let's do it.
• 1:00:22
  Yeah.
• 1:00:23
  Um discipline.
• 1:00:25
  I think going back to the the things that I never did before was reading the word.
• 1:00:29
  Um, that is really what transformed a lot.
• 1:00:31
  Um, coming back to the Lord was getting into the word.
• 1:00:35
  I I ha I did not read it when I was younger.
• 1:00:37
  I did a lot of church and it was good.
• 1:00:39
  I got fed by many pastors and and leaders, but I was not in the word.
• 1:00:44
  And I think when my world shook, I I fell through the cracks and you know, I didn't have the word written on my heart to ground me, to hold me and to trust.
• 1:00:53
  And so the word has been very promising through through my through my discipline.
• 1:00:59
  And is it hard every day to you your intentions are good, but life happens.
• 1:01:03
  I have a dog now.
• 1:01:05
  You know, I got I got a you know, I got a dog in the morning, and the dog now takes my Bible reading time, but that's also that that's you know something I gotta be accountable for.
• 1:01:14
  So, but the discipline is knowing that I love waking up, knowing that I have the Lord in my life.
• 1:01:20
  So at some point, maybe I miss the morning, but you know, I drive all day and I make it, you know, my purpose to turn down the music, not listen to anything, and not talk to myself, but talk to the Lord.
• 1:01:35
  And sometimes we think we're talking to the Lord and all these things, but really we're just kind of having conversations with our help ourselves.
• 1:01:41
  But I have to be so intentional about not getting lost in my mind and my own thoughts, but talking to the Lord, finding rest in him, right?
• 1:01:49
  We might miss a few days doing the things that we know are good for us, but like he's there.
• 1:01:54
  You you have the Bible right, you know he's when it's not right there, he's still there.
• 1:01:58
  When you miss a day, he's still there, like he's everywhere.
• 1:02:01
  So I think that discipline is no no matter what you missed throughout the day or in the morning, the routine was broken, he is there.
• 1:02:09
  So be intentional about taking a moment and talking to him, praying with him, loving him, giving him all the glory for waking you up that day, you know, and and for what he's done.
• 1:02:21
  So discipline can be a roller coaster sometimes, you know.
• 1:02:25
  But it the heart's intention is is to always make time for the Lord no matter what.
• 1:02:30
  Yeah, I think that's great because I think everyone at this table, our heart is to pursue the Lord.
• 1:02:36
  And so discipline is not about works mentality, but about intentionality and really being intentional.
• 1:02:45
  And I think all of us fell in love with the word of God, you know.
• 1:02:50
  Um, it it became something different to me as an adult than it did as a kid.
• 1:02:56
  I you know, I didn't have it really as a kid.
• 1:02:59
  Um okay.
• 1:03:02
  Are there scriptures that have become especially meaningful to you in this season?
• 1:03:10
  Uh Keith, that's up to you.
• 1:03:14
  Well, I always keep saying, you know, John 6 23, you know, I talk to the fellows and always tell them, you know, I've been changed, you know, and he who the son is set free is free indeed.
• 1:03:23
  I keep going back to that because, you know, there's one thing that is different in my life is I am I have been set free.
• 1:03:30
  And so I keep falling back on that.
• 1:03:32
  I keep thinking about that in my life is like I'm not struggling, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not trying to uh uh uh the world's not pulling me back, you know, and it's just a great feeling to be uh set free, you know, uh from the world because the world has had me bound for such a long time, and just to be set free is just a great place to be in my life.
• 1:03:54
  So I I seem to fall back on that quite often, you know, and I don't know what we don't know why the Lord does what he does and when he does this, he brings this on us.
• 1:04:08
  Uh but it just it this is this this is the season for it, you know, and I'm just happy that God has set me free and and has put me in a place where I am at today.
• 1:04:20
  That's great.
• 1:04:21
  Victor?
• 1:04:22
  Absolutely.
• 1:04:23
  Um I could name several that I almost quote to myself all the time, but definitely thy word is a lamp into my feet and a light into my path.
• 1:04:32
  It has been strong um for me even before I backslid.
• 1:04:37
  Um I've uh but especially now that if I have a question before I go roaming for an answer or calling someone, I know what the word of God says.
• 1:04:48
  And I've learned to go to God's word and find try to find the answer first.
• 1:04:54
  Um because people will fail you, man will fail you, but God's word will never fail you.
• 1:05:01
  So it's it's just my blueprint.
• 1:05:02
  Yeah, very good.
• 1:05:04
  I was trying to there at the end, I was stumbling, but for my thoughts are not your thoughts, declares the Lord.
• 1:05:09
  As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts and your thoughts, declares the Lord.
• 1:05:15
  And that's what I'm in that season.
• 1:05:18
  I don't know why God waited so long sometimes to bring us to where we're at, and and that scripture always comes back to me right there, also.
• 1:05:26
  So I was trying to remember that scripture.
• 1:05:28
  I was gonna say it, but I for I couldn't remember it when I was put on the spot.
• 1:05:31
  Yeah, no, that's good.
• 1:05:33
  Yeah, Raina.
• 1:05:36
  Scripture is powerful because just hearing you guys alone, just I felt the Lord, you know, because it is what's holding on to, you know, it's it's what we're holding on to.
• 1:05:44
  And I think we see the scripture often everywhere it's printed.
• 1:05:48
  And I was just talking to one of the sisters who took a long drive with me, but trust in the Lord God with all your heart and lean not on your own understandings.
• 1:05:57
  And that that was What I would wake up to, you know, during you know, the process, as I have to trust him.
• 1:06:05
  My understanding got me away from him, the way that that I was understanding myself and my life and who I am.
• 1:06:12
  And I had to understand that I cannot lean on that.
• 1:06:16
  I had to just trust him and whatever he's doing, he he's got it.
• 1:06:21
  And that that just grabbed me for for so long, and it still does because it's very cliche in the world, in a sense, we see it often, but what if we don't believe it, it'll mean nothing.
• 1:06:33
  But when you really trust in the Lord with all your heart, he changes everything.
• 1:06:40
  So and then it says acknowledge him.
• 1:06:43
  I know, I know.
• 1:06:44
  Acknowledge all your ways, and what a difference when we acknowledge God's speak for our feelings, amen.
• 1:06:51
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:52
  That's awesome.
• 1:06:52
  That's good.
• 1:06:54
  Mine in this season has been um his strength is made perfect in our weakness, and I've been going through a season of weariness, I think, a long season of weariness, and I really feel the Lord undergirding me with strength.
• 1:07:17
  And um, you know, there's so many times I'll just go to my prayer closet and I imagine myself just crawling up in his lap, and I'll just lay on the floor as if I'm in his lap, and I really feel like he's holding me.
• 1:07:34
  And um by his strength, you know, I I know there are days that I just think, Lord, I just don't have it today.
• 1:07:47
  And as a therapist, that's not a good place to be, you know, when you got to show up for work and and help people.
• 1:07:54
  And, you know, I will get at the end of my day and I will just look up and think, God, I don't know how you did it, but you did it, you know, and I feel refreshed.
• 1:08:07
  Um but I have I have very much noticed his strength in my weariness in this season.
• 1:08:15
  So, and I am looking forward to this season ending, and I believe it's right around the corner, you know, but um and it's not for any reason, it's just life, I think, you know.
• 1:08:29
  Uh so Carrie, did you answer your your scripture that's getting you through this season?
• 1:08:35
  Uh mine's gonna be a little bit odd, but for me personally, um that scripture that says to be absent from the body is to be present with Christ, because that is very personal for me.
• 1:08:48
  And I th think about that scripture every day because my loved ones that I miss that are no longer here are are with him already.
• 1:08:58
  So that scripture keeps me going.
• 1:09:00
  I I have several others that I like, but yes, but for me, um, you know, living every day in deep grief, um for me, that scripture is what helps me.
• 1:09:13
  Yeah, that's so good.
• 1:09:15
  Because we all know your story, you know.
• 1:09:17
  Yeah.
• 1:09:19
  Okay.
• 1:09:21
  How do you handle moments when old temptations, thoughts, or patterns try to pull you back?
• 1:09:30
  Um, I know that all of us really try to keep ourselves in a strong place, but um I'll go first here.
• 1:09:40
  Like I don't ever listen to music because music is such a trigger, and um, I could just hear it on the background with someone, and immediately I go back, and so I just I know that music is a trigger, but not so long ago I stumbled across someone, and that part of me that you know has been dormant for a while just showed up without my permission.
• 1:10:08
  And I was like, oh Lord, where did this come from?
• 1:10:11
  You know, and I immediately recognized recognized the flesh, I guess I should say, and um and I I was just thankful that I, you know, that I could recognize it for what it was, that I could totally then just surrender it to the Lord and um and and realize like the lifestyle that we live as apostolics is really very good boundaries to keep our flesh in check.
• 1:10:46
  And um because I as I was so taken back and surprised by my reaction, like I said, that came without my own permission.
• 1:10:56
  And um so I I just went right back to putting myself in this place, maybe of isolation, to where I could just make sure I was totally surrendering and giving that to the Lord because I know who I used to be, and I know that if I don't keep my flesh in check, you know, it rises up.
• 1:11:19
  And uh I don't want that old girl or that old life or any of that, you know.
• 1:11:25
  But it creeps in without our permission sometimes, and so so I'll repeat the question for you guys.
• 1:11:32
  How do you handle moments when old temptations, thoughts, or patterns try to pull you back?
• 1:11:40
  Is it are you first this time?
• 1:11:41
  Yeah, if you want me to be.
• 1:11:43
  Okay, you can go first.
• 1:11:45
  I because you're in a Harley Davidson world.
• 1:11:48
  So how is that for you?
• 1:11:51
  Is that part of any anything for you?
• 1:11:53
  Not really.
• 1:11:54
  It's it's not triggering for me, um, oddly enough.
• 1:11:57
  Um, the only thing obviously that would it be hard is if I'm on a motorcycle, I have I can't wear a skirt.
• 1:12:04
  Yeah.
• 1:12:05
  I'm gonna just throw that out there.
• 1:12:07
  But um You could.
• 1:12:09
  Yeah.
• 1:12:10
  That that would be interesting.
• 1:12:12
  That would probably be worse.
• 1:12:15
  But um, but um, I really don't I I obviously I'm not perfect, but I I try to stay away from situations that might trigger me.
• 1:12:27
  Um but we are only human.
• 1:12:31
  I mean, we're gonna struggle.
• 1:12:33
  Um, you know, and my biggest thing is if I ever get thoughts that I'm like, where did that come from?
• 1:12:40
  Immediately pray.
• 1:12:42
  God, take that away, forgive me.
• 1:12:44
  Um, I listen to Christian music all the time.
• 1:12:47
  Um it's uplifting.
• 1:12:49
  Um, I you on the Bible, um, I have a Bible app on my phone.
• 1:12:53
  You can have it read to you.
• 1:12:55
  I don't know if you guys knew that.
• 1:12:56
  I love that.
• 1:12:57
  I absolutely love that.
• 1:12:58
  I I use it a lot.
• 1:12:59
  Sometimes I'll fall asleep to it.
• 1:13:01
  Um, but yeah, it's just it can be hard.
• 1:13:05
  But um, you know, I I know I know what I want, I know where I'm going.
• 1:13:11
  I I don't want to backtrack.
• 1:13:14
  So it's not it's not triggering because I I have a goal.
• 1:13:19
  Right.
• 1:13:19
  My goal is to make it through this life and get to heaven.
• 1:13:24
  So I, you know, it's a little easier if you think about it like that, I think.
• 1:13:28
  Yeah, and like I said, I think we're all surrendered, you know, but like we are only two minutes, right?
• 1:13:35
  And temptation may not be, you know, it may not be what it used to be for us.
• 1:13:42
  It could be quitting, skipping church, yeah, staying in bed, just the little slow drift because we get discouraged.
• 1:13:50
  Go ahead, Keith.
• 1:13:53
  Well, I mean, I went the other day, I went riding on the Harley and I uh went to uh the car show, and after the car show I decided to go venture out and see some people.
• 1:14:08
  And I ended up going to the where I got where they surrounded me and um out there it's called an outlaw ranch where everybody out there is pretty much on the run.
• 1:14:18
  And I pulled up on the Harley and got off, and a few people came out, and there's it's a it's a pretty much of a it's a place where people go when they uh are hiding from the law, and everybody out there is doing dope and drugs.
• 1:14:33
  And there was a guy out there that I was looking for, Dion, and Dion had I got him in the program and he had gotten out, he left the program after a couple days, and so he was out there, and so I was looking for him to see what was up, but a few of the guys were out there, and so but and they some of them respect the fact that I am not doing drugs, and some of them don't care.
• 1:14:54
  You know, that this is our spot, this is so you know what's up, and you can come in here if you want, or you could but I had no pro I don't have a problem with it, I don't have an issue.
• 1:15:03
  I didn't go, I don't go around leaving, uh, wish with uh feeling like oh man, I really would like to do that.
• 1:15:09
  But in saying all that, the other day, I uh to be transparent, I noticed that I was working out and my veins are starting to pop out on my arms.
• 1:15:20
  Microphone and I and I noticed that you know, for a second I I've started feeling them on my and for one brief second, the devil allowed me to uh say, Oh wow, you could hit that really easy, you know.
• 1:15:36
  And when you do drugs uh that way, um sometimes it's hard to hit a vein.
• 1:15:42
  And so now that they're showing up, now that they're showing up, you know, and I felt it.
• 1:15:46
  I felt myself you always constantly always looking and rubbing around to feel fill for a vein.
• 1:15:51
  Immediately what I did was I rebuked it in Jesus' name.
• 1:15:55
  And I'm gonna tell you what, that works.
• 1:15:57
  It works because I said in Jesus' name, you know, it really went away that quick, and uh was no issues, no problems.
• 1:16:04
  So I mean that's that's uh I didn't even give it a chance, maybe two or three seconds to to ponder on it because it uh I think that's what the devil wants, it wants us to think about sneaky, it just sneaky just just like that, you know, just in the gym, start rubbing my veins.
• 1:16:20
  All of a sudden, boop, there was that thought, and I just I just uh rebuked it and I said it just the way I'm saying it right now.
• 1:16:26
  I said I rebuked that in Jesus' name.
• 1:16:28
  And I told two, I went called, text a few friends of mine and go, guess what happened right now?
• 1:16:32
  This was crazy, you know.
• 1:16:34
  And they said, Yeah, you did the right thing, so that's what we got to do, you know.
• 1:16:37
  Yeah, it's good, Victor.
• 1:16:41
  Wow, this is this is a huge question.
• 1:16:45
  Um, but the Bible says to resist the devil and he will flee.
• 1:16:50
  Um, you know, when I think about this question, um, you have to learn to work out your own salvation.
• 1:16:58
  So uh there's places I don't go that I used to go, there's people I don't talk to that I used to talk to.
• 1:17:06
  Um, and so there's triggers, and like you said, there's triggers, but I will say this, I'm not running from my my past because I live in the victory, I live victorious, and I I feel like I live in alignment with him.
• 1:17:20
  However, like you said, we are human and there's things that will pop up.
• 1:17:26
  Um, I recently preached a message on the power of a made-up mind, and so at some point in my relationship with God, I had to say, this is the mindset that I have, there's no turning back from here, and so I target the enemy before he targets me.
• 1:17:42
  And so, for those reasons, I'm not gonna go to certain places.
• 1:17:46
  Yeah, and um why?
• 1:17:48
  Because I know who I am, I know my past, and I'm like, why would I put myself in this position?
• 1:17:52
  Right, right.
• 1:17:53
  So um, yeah, I mean, we we still are Christians, we love life, we we we want to have good times, but there's places that I'm not gonna go.
• 1:18:03
  And and music's a huge one for me as well.
• 1:18:06
  There's just triggers on music that will bring back to remembrance that person you were with or that place that you spent time at.
• 1:18:14
  And so I'm I'm really um careful now with what I listen to and what I allow my brain, and and and you know, I keep your mind on the Lord and and eventually it just becomes a lifestyle, yeah, and you're not running from it.
• 1:18:30
  And for the record, I was at my son's house.
• 1:18:33
  Like, like there was nothing I should not have been doing, but like it just happened.
• 1:18:39
  So, you know, it you just it just is so random.
• 1:18:43
  Yeah, for sure.
• 1:18:43
  But I wanted to clarify because I'm not going to places I shouldn't go.
• 1:18:47
  Actually, it's actually not random.
• 1:18:49
  It was probably the devil trying to get you.
• 1:18:52
  Well, and I think I actually think the Lord was letting me know because you know it I am a walking, talking miracle, and and that's because I know me and where I've been, but I've been single for 12 years, and that is a miracle, and it is just a miracle, and so I think the Lord was letting me know, you know, you're not done, you know, I got something for you, and you know, and and I know that that sounds silly because I'm I'm not looking, I'm just trusting the the Lord, but it was, you know, I I was grateful, but it I also like took a million steps back and thought, oh, you know, this isn't this isn't okay.
• 1:19:40
  But you know, it just things happen, it's just surprising.
• 1:19:43
  But go ahead.
• 1:19:44
  Yeah, no, they do.
• 1:19:45
  Um, I think like you said, it's a having a made-up mind.
• 1:19:49
  I think the mindset younger Rena had when being challenged by certain temptations, I didn't have a made-up mind.
• 1:19:56
  I I wanted to touch the fire, you know, I wanted to feel, you know, the burn, and and I fell into that.
• 1:20:03
  I think now when and you know, I think Keith had you had asked me that question today, like how do you handle, like, you know, like what you what do you go through?
• 1:20:11
  And I had to be really honest.
• 1:20:13
  I know the Lord's delivered me with the understanding and knowledge that I don't want this life.
• 1:20:19
  I don't want it.
• 1:20:20
  My spirit knows that my flesh has been conditioned to only see a certain type of person or or not person, but like like gender, certain right, you know, attraction.
• 1:20:32
  So the the mind wants to play, you know, tricks and and make you believe that this is just how you're conditioned for forever.
• 1:20:39
  And it's but my spirit knows and you resist and the Lord and I trust and you know, I lean not on to my own understanding, and I have to fight the temptation when I when I get lonely.
• 1:20:51
  I've I've been in a relationship since I was 17, and not relationships or relationship, but relationships.
• 1:20:58
  So now being single and alone and living a single life, so you get lonely, you there's no one to go home to, you know, and you you reminisce on like, well, if I was in a relationship, my mind can only go to one type of lifestyle because it's the only thing that I knew.
• 1:21:15
  So the Lord is continuously transforming my mindset, but when temptation comes, I do have to resist and I do have to hold on to his spirit is inside of me and it's dwelling in me and it's living in me, and he gives me the strength to have that understanding and knowledge that this is not how I created you.
• 1:21:34
  I when I start to fall into temptation or like ideas of my old ways, I remember when I was coming out of it and I had this revelation that I want a father for my child.
• 1:21:45
  I want a husband to be over me and and lead me.
• 1:21:49
  You know, I want the things that I didn't understand then, that now I understand, and and it's a new desire and it's continuously growing and growing and growing.
• 1:21:58
  And people love to ask me, you know.
• 1:22:00
  So Keith loves that.
• 1:22:03
  What do you what do you do?
• 1:22:04
  How do you feel?
• 1:22:04
  What goes on?
• 1:22:05
  Like, they don't know what's going on in your mind.
• 1:22:08
  But I love it because it's it's an opportunity to be transparent with people challenged by by a certain type of lifestyle.
• 1:22:16
  And so, you know, I think again, the only way you can handle is resisting, trusting, stay in prayer, trust, you know, like that's that's what I do, and and he continues to make me stronger.
• 1:22:28
  And I'm and I feel it and I know it and I and I believe it.
• 1:22:31
  People don't believe when they when you say the Lord's really changed you, and they don't want to believe that's true.
• 1:22:37
  Oh, it's true.
• 1:22:38
  It's true.
• 1:22:38
  Oh, it's true.
• 1:22:39
  100%.
• 1:22:40
  Yeah, that's awesome.
• 1:22:43
  So I don't know why I'm stumbling.
• 1:22:47
  What role does your pastor play in your life now?
• 1:22:51
  Um, I I never really had I never had a pastor over me.
• 1:22:59
  I had your dad over me.
• 1:23:01
  But, you know, I think in I don't know if it was just me, but in our culture, we didn't really go to the pastor for everything.
• 1:23:09
  We didn't go to the pastor much at all.
• 1:23:11
  You know, it was like there were just there was a lot of separation.
• 1:23:16
  So I never really experienced what having a pastor was like when I was growing up.
• 1:23:23
  Um, so this is kind of like my first experience with that.
• 1:23:28
  Um, but I don't know what it's like for you guys, you know, and your dad was was your pastor, so it was a little different for you.
• 1:23:36
  But um, Keith, what role does your pastor play now in your life?
• 1:23:40
  So my pastor is also my cousin.
• 1:23:43
  Um I think that you have pushed me more um to to to be more open with Jeremy, and I say Jeremy, I should say pastor, but he's he's my cousin, and I do I do respect him for being my pastor.
• 1:24:00
  He's a great guy, and I'm glad he's he is our pastor.
• 1:24:03
  And I look at Brother McPhail as he was always my pastor for so many years, but um even when I wasn't, I guess I was around, but you know, uh but he was always the pastor of the church where my family went to church.
• 1:24:17
  But uh, I never have had a pastor, and I start thinking about that right now as we speak, say it.
• 1:24:24
  I've just realized it right now as we talk.
• 1:24:26
  I've really never had a pastor, and I think that Jeremy is my pastor.
• 1:24:33
  Um, I know that if I could I could talk to him about anything, I feel would feel comfortable in doing so, and knowing that he would give me great advice.
• 1:24:43
  I respect him and Angela to the fullest.
• 1:24:45
  I love them and their walk with God, and I see that the way they walk with God is the way, and the way their children walk with God is the way that I want me and I want my children to walk with God by their way of living for God is a is a uh is a good model for someone to live for the Lord.
• 1:25:07
  So I do need to start leaning on uh pastoral ship more, uh, possibly, uh not possibly, but I do.
• 1:25:16
  I don't lean on anyone if we start thinking, if I start thinking about it.
• 1:25:25
  Um I have no one that I really lean on.
• 1:25:31
  I just lean on the Lord, you know, but I should be more open.
• 1:25:36
  I guess I need to, I don't I haven't ran into there's been a few little things that I've needed to probably talk to uh my pastor about, and I just probably need to be more I've lived a life of uh keep it to yourself kind of life.
• 1:25:53
  It's best to keep it to yourself because I've been burned a lot.
• 1:25:56
  And uh and I mean burned, I mean even in the it from the lifestyle, even in the church and people, I just it's hard for me to trust people.
• 1:26:06
  Um it's not saying anything bad about anyone.
• 1:26:09
  Um it's just I do best on my own, you know, and uh the best crime that you can do is do it on your own and do it by yourself, they say.
• 1:26:21
  So I lived my life that way, and so uh, but I I guess I probably should be depending on my pastor more, and I I'm sure I will um down the road.
• 1:26:32
  But um yeah, I think you're right, and you know, going back to the question what a church needs needs to know, what do churches need to know is that trust does not come easy for prodigals when you go back to church.
• 1:26:46
  There, you know, for whatever reason, most of us have wounds that got us out of church, and so trust does not come easy.
• 1:26:56
  And trusting a pastor, I think you and I, because we're family, um, it's easier to trust that because we've known him, you know, most all of our lives.
• 1:27:08
  But I don't know how easy it would be to trust a pastor without a long history of watching, you know, and so uh, you know, we're lucky, I think, in that sense, and leaning on my pastor has been uh so refreshing for me because I've never did that before either.
• 1:27:30
  I have always just walked alone.
• 1:27:32
  So they care for our soul.
• 1:27:34
  Yeah.
• 1:27:35
  And I don't know that I ever understood that because I in my woundedness, I don't know that I ever thought anyone really cared for my soul or or for me, you know, in general.
• 1:27:47
  And so I think now as I'm an adult, you really can see how much they care for our soul and and they'll tell us the truth.
• 1:27:55
  But mostly they let us make our own choices.
• 1:27:58
  They just are there.
• 1:28:00
  To kind of encourage and guide and so but trust uh you said trust, I thought that was good.
• 1:28:05
  But I think I you know, I grew up in a um pastor's home and I seen the way my dad pastored, um, even though I was a little Hellion, I still was able to sit back and I could tell you how he pastored was an awesome way of pastoring.
• 1:28:27
  I think it was a lot way the same way a brother big brother Abbott pastored.
• 1:28:33
  They were hands-on pastors, you know, they were a lot different than the pastors of uh maybe even Brother McPhail or even brother even Jeremy and stuff.
• 1:28:43
  I mean they would they would call you, hey, where are you at, you know, and you know, and stuff like that.
• 1:28:49
  So um, but I but my dad even never was my own, even my father was never my pastor.
• 1:28:58
  Um because he was my dad, you know, so so uh I don't know.
• 1:29:04
  I need that I need to really concentrate on that and think about that a little bit harder.
• 1:29:12
  What a great question.
• 1:29:13
  Um, you know, the Bible tells us that in the multitude of counsel that there is safety, and uh we we do need a a pastor and a shepherd that watches over us, but to your point, we do need someone that we trust as well.
• 1:29:31
  So I have found um that I try to have a multitude of counsel, not just one.
• 1:29:38
  Um, and I love my pastor, he's a great man of God.
• 1:29:42
  Um and and Keith mentioned, you know, our our old school bishops versus now, they are different.
• 1:29:49
  Pastors that are pastoring today, many of them are very different than what pastors did 20 years ago.
• 1:29:56
  Um, same thing, you know, Bishop Abbott.
• 1:29:58
  If I missed a few Sundays, I got a text or a call um that you know, where are you at?
• 1:30:04
  Or I mean, even sometimes, like, you know, you're not even paying time.
• 1:30:10
  But it's called accountability, yeah.
• 1:30:14
  And having that accountability um is important.
• 1:30:17
  I can't just and I think um we were close enough, you know what I mean, that he could tell me that.
• 1:30:25
  So um, but it's really a refuge when you have a multitude of counsel of people that you can lean on and that will give you upright and godly advice.
• 1:30:38
  Um, I I don't try to um bombard my pastor with a whole lot.
• 1:30:43
  I know that he's a busy man.
• 1:30:44
  Um, but if I feel like I need a tag in, and I did it recently, hey, I I need to tag in with you.
• 1:30:51
  And he said, Yeah, come on, you know, before a Sunday morning, and I got to tag in with him.
• 1:30:56
  And sometimes it just takes that quick conversation.
• 1:30:59
  And you know, he said, you know, he gave me compliment, um, and and but I did let him know you're a voice in my life.
• 1:31:06
  I need you to know that you're a voice in my life, and my pastor is the same age as me, so but um what an important um it's a it's a treasure to have people that you can be accountable to because the enemy is sly, yeah, and he wants us to think that we could do it all on our own.
• 1:31:25
  And um I tried that route, it all mess up.
• 1:31:30
  So thank God for our pastors.
• 1:31:33
  Because I think one of the things that I learned is how fallible my own thinking was.
• 1:31:38
  Right.
• 1:31:39
  And I, you know, I learned I'm learning to trust myself again now that my alignment is there, but our thinking can be so fallible, you know, just from uh you know being conformed to the world, and it takes time.
• 1:31:54
  So it's good to just, hey, am I thinking about this clearly?
• 1:31:57
  Am I is this the right thing, you know, to just have that check-in.
• 1:32:01
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:32:03
  Um I try not to bombard, you know.
• 1:32:08
  I I think sometimes my need for my pastor is not necessarily prayer requests or what's going on in my life, but it's more so I'm hungry for the word and I want to understand it the way he understands it and knows it.
• 1:32:20
  And um, he's he he's the he is a great pastor, you know, he teaches and preaches.
• 1:32:26
  And luckily, my pastor was my youth pastor, so he he's been a seed planted in my life at a very young age.
• 1:32:34
  And when I left, you know, the church, I I remembered a lot of his teachings.
• 1:32:39
  Um, a lot of his teachings that I learned, and I think I come back to that now where I want more teaching.
• 1:32:46
  I want, you know, you know, to guide me through wisdom, you know, just that Bible study last night, you know, we Sister Angela called.
• 1:32:54
  I, you know, we had a question and I asked, and you know, again, like that knowledge that he shares, I need that because sometimes we're not getting what we we're what we need through our own understanding sometimes.
• 1:33:06
  And um, and we do need the I I had a virtual pastor and I thought I was good.
• 1:33:11
  And then that virtual pastor said, You need a pastor.
• 1:33:15
  So I think I I immediately said, Okay, then it's time.
• 1:33:19
  When he said that, it was time for me to return to the place that I left.
• 1:33:23
  You know, I had already been going to other churches, right?
• 1:33:25
  And it's not that I was, you know, fighting or resisting.
• 1:33:28
  I think I was just trying to find, you know, the right, the right place.
• 1:33:33
  And, you know, pastor was just so welcoming to my questions.
• 1:33:39
  You know, there was a day I needed a whole like three, four hours of just I have questions.
• 1:33:43
  And he opens himself up to answering, but he also leaves it to you to make certain decisions, you know.
• 1:33:50
  And so I've been grateful for that.
• 1:33:53
  And um, you know, and and same with Sister Angela, his wife, you know, you know, at the end of the day, they will guide us with as much as they know and as much revelation as they have, but you know, you you're gonna walk this out.
• 1:34:07
  So um they're great.
• 1:34:09
  I I love my pastors, I'm very grateful for them.
• 1:34:12
  Carrie.
• 1:34:13
  And what was the question again?
• 1:34:14
  I'm sorry.
• 1:34:15
  Uh, what role does your pastor play in your life now?
• 1:34:19
  Um so for growing up a pastor's kid is is a little different because we live with the pastor.
• 1:34:28
  So for me as a child, you know, I lived with the I'm I'm his daughter.
• 1:34:33
  Um so being now an adult, and now my dad is the bishop, um I bounce a lot of things off my dad.
• 1:34:43
  Uh my dad and I have many conversations.
• 1:34:47
  Um yeah, it is I I I love my I don't want to get emotional.
• 1:34:54
  Goodness gracious.
• 1:34:55
  Uh he he's a wealth of knowledge.
• 1:34:59
  And I love I love to to ask him things because he has an answer for me every single time.
• 1:35:08
  And I'm like, wow, I never thought of that scripture like that.
• 1:35:11
  Or, you know, um, we talk about the rapture, because you know that's one of my favorite topics.
• 1:35:16
  Um and he just explains it.
• 1:35:19
  It's it it's it's just I'm in awe listening to my dad.
• 1:35:23
  Um he's now the bishop.
• 1:35:26
  So, you know, back to our past uh Pastor Kane and and his wife.
• 1:35:31
  Sister Angela has been a rock for me.
• 1:35:35
  Um, I don't necessarily I don't reach out to Jeremy, I'll be honest.
• 1:35:39
  Pastor Kane, sorry.
• 1:35:40
  Um, but Sister Angela, the faith that that woman has.
• 1:35:45
  I know she we need to talk about her a little bit about.
• 1:35:49
  You know, yeah.
• 1:35:49
  I gotta give her a shout out.
• 1:35:50
  I don't know if she's gonna watch this, but you will.
• 1:35:53
  But that the faith that that woman has, like she, when I say she, she was my rock during the whole thing with Everly.
• 1:36:02
  Uh I'm I'm that's being polite because she was my rock through the whole thing with Everly.
• 1:36:11
  And the faith that she has is is just amazing.
• 1:36:16
  Yeah.
• 1:36:17
  Yeah.
• 1:36:17
  I'm so glad you mentioned her.
• 1:36:19
  It's a praying woman right there.
• 1:36:21
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:36:22
  She she is the mother of our church, and she has definitely brought in inner I mean, I really think our church is where it's at because of her her intercession and her heart.
• 1:36:33
  Yeah.
• 1:36:34
  Yeah.
• 1:36:35
  And you know, I think she I wonder how often the pastor's wife get the they don't.
• 1:36:40
  They don't get a lot of, but you know what?
• 1:36:42
  They they're part of the ministry.
• 1:36:45
  Oh, of course.
• 1:36:46
  So and they're a they're a huge part of it.
• 1:36:48
  They're the pr they're usually the praying part, um, the one that, you know, they're behind the undergird.
• 1:36:54
  Yeah.
• 1:36:55
  I mean, yeah.
• 1:36:56
  So yeah.
• 1:36:57
  Yeah.
• 1:36:57
  Yeah.
• 1:36:58
  Okay.
• 1:37:00
  What does obedience mean to you now?
• 1:37:04
  And I I'll say for me, obedience used to be a dirty little word because I felt like it was always shoved down our throat.
• 1:37:13
  And, you know, we were rebellious if we didn't do all the things.
• 1:37:18
  And, you know, that there probably was some rebellion there, but definitely not understood.
• 1:37:26
  I didn't understand it, you know.
• 1:37:28
  Um, but now obedience, I know that that is the way I show God that I love him.
• 1:37:36
  And I never, ever, ever knew that my way of being faithful to him was to obey him.
• 1:37:45
  I just thought he knows my heart, he knows I love him, whatever I feel, he knows like that was enough.
• 1:37:52
  But I remember when I was in my marriage and my my ex used to tell me how much he loved me.
• 1:38:01
  But yet he was, you know, his actions show different.
• 1:38:05
  And um, and I said to him one day, what good is your love if I don't ever see it?
• 1:38:11
  You know?
• 1:38:12
  And as I said it in that moment, it it really registered to me.
• 1:38:17
  Like, I wonder what God thinks.
• 1:38:19
  What good is our love if I'm not obedient to his word?
• 1:38:23
  Like, feelings mean nothing, it's what we do with our feelings.
• 1:38:27
  So I learned that about obedience, and so it's not a dirty little word anymore for me.
• 1:38:33
  Um, Victor, go ahead and start.
• 1:38:36
  Well that that that question um makes me think of the scripture obedience is better than sacrifice.
• 1:38:46
  Um it doesn't come easy to understand, I don't think.
• 1:38:51
  Well, and that scripture was used a lot with the standards and all of the rules, right?
• 1:38:59
  That as kids we don't understand the heart behind any of that.
• 1:39:03
  And that scripture was always used in that, but now we've lived it, we understand it better.
• 1:39:10
  And how I understand it now is that you know, it's taken me many years and even seasons before I believe that God helped me understand what it is to be obedient to his word.
• 1:39:26
  And when I think of obedience now, I'm not thinking about rules and restrictions, I'm not thinking about yes and no's.
• 1:39:34
  I'm thinking about um it's not good works that's gonna get me to heaven.
• 1:39:40
  Um and it's my obedience to him.
• 1:39:43
  And um, when you learn obedience to God, it's because he trusts you, it's because now he trusts in you to do a work for him.
• 1:39:56
  And he's tea he's trying to teach you that if I can trust you, I can tell you to do something, and then you obey, and I will use me, him through us.
• 1:40:09
  And so I I you that's what I think of obedience now.
• 1:40:12
  I don't think of it as rules.
• 1:40:14
  I think of if I can obey God, He will actually use me, regardless of my past or whatever is in um, you know, even in my future.
• 1:40:25
  If I can learn to obey his word, if I could obey his voice, if I could obey his spirit, um we start to become like him.
• 1:40:36
  That is so good.
• 1:40:38
  That is so good.
• 1:40:39
  Hearing his voice and just doing what he says.
• 1:40:42
  That's so good, Victor.
• 1:40:44
  Raina.
• 1:40:46
  Yeah, pretty much what you're saying is you know, listening to his his voice and and following through.
• 1:40:52
  I think every step of the way coming back to the Lord was a step of obedience.
• 1:40:56
  I think he knew my heart already.
• 1:40:58
  He knew how much I desired him and missed him, and I didn't know how to come back to him, but it was being obedient to every step along the way and wanting to do that.
• 1:41:09
  And uh, and he trusts you to do it, you know, or he, you know, I think he he does trust us to do it because it's timing.
• 1:41:16
  In his timing, he he places those those things on our heart.
• 1:41:20
  And so I think obedience has just become so much more personal versus um, you know, how you're being obedient is how I should.
• 1:41:29
  It's not saying that we won't be obedient to the same things, but there's also, you know, what's that heart posture, right, towards doing the things for the Lord.
• 1:41:39
  And so obedience has have it has a whole new meaning now.
• 1:41:42
  You know, I want to be obedient in the things that he's placed on my heart to continue to, you know, steady my walk with him.
• 1:41:51
  So yeah.
• 1:41:52
  So good, Karen.
• 1:41:54
  Yeah.
• 1:41:55
  Um, I agree with both of them.
• 1:41:58
  Um, and God will bless your obedience.
• 1:42:02
  And um, it's funny because when I had only been back in church for, I don't know, maybe a little over a year, Sister Angel asked me to speak to the women.
• 1:42:11
  And that's that was my topic.
• 1:42:13
  Um, when you're obedient to God, how he blesses you.
• 1:42:16
  I pulled up many examples in the Bible of um obedience and blessings following.
• 1:42:23
  And I mean, obviously, we're not going to be obedient just to get the blessings, but he will bless you.
• 1:42:29
  And I also had someone in the church tell me one time, God sees your obedience, you know, and it just it meant so much because I'm like, you know, at that point, like I don't, you know, you maybe don't feel like you're being obedient or you're doing you're just doing it because you love him.
• 1:42:42
  But in reality, you're being obedient.
• 1:42:47
  And um, you know, yeah.
• 1:42:50
  Yeah.
• 1:42:50
  And so to me, that that's what that's what that means now.
• 1:42:53
  It has nothing to do with standards or rules, or uh it's not even about that anymore.
• 1:42:59
  And I feel like the church has changed, not just our church, but like the church in general, where we're so close to the to to the end, the last of days, and we don't it doesn't we don't it doesn't matter.
• 1:43:13
  Just just be obedient, follow his word, do you know, do what he says, and you know, you will be blessed.
• 1:43:22
  Yeah.
• 1:43:22
  Because he's his joke is easy and his burden is light.
• 1:43:25
  He's a good God, he's a loving God, and he doesn't ask us to do things, uh everything he asks of us is to draw us closer to him, you know.
• 1:43:36
  Keith.
• 1:43:37
  Well, you know, I you know, we've all come from different backgrounds and we have uh come from different places, and I know that God's pulled me out of my muck and my mire of many years of uh living for the living for the devil, and you know, and it's not by accident.
• 1:43:55
  I know that God pulled me out for a reason.
• 1:43:57
  Every day I live with this.
• 1:43:59
  I know that God uh did it because uh He has a job for me to do, and I'm doing it in my own way right now.
• 1:44:09
  I'm trying to find my path and trying to find my uh direction in life, and I and you know, and there's uh how he what he wants me to do, and and when we talk about obedience, you know, it's you know, I'm I'm busy.
• 1:44:21
  I am busy, but sometimes I'm in going in circles.
• 1:44:24
  I'm so busy, you know, trying to find out what God wants me to do and and be obedient.
• 1:44:28
  You know, and there's you know, there's there's I have all these ideas, and and you know, I got my job, and then I got these all my ideas, and then I got my job, and I gotta live, and then I got all my uh ideas, you know, and then you know, you got all these things that you're wanting to do, and then and then you're constantly uh uh uh uh wanting to be in the the jail ministry, and then you want to start this men's home or this re-entry deal, and you got the guys calling you from jail and getting me into teen challenge because I don't want to do 10 years, I only want to do one year, and you know, and I get it, you know, and I'm I'm working with them and I'm picking up people from uh uh here and there, and the girls are getting beat up from their girl boyfriends, and you know, and I'm in there kicking all their stuff in the car and just moving them out, getting them into every any program that I can get them into.
• 1:45:17
  And I'm doing what I feel that that's what God wants me to do, and that's what God wants me to do.
• 1:45:21
  And He's putting me, keeping me safe and all this, but if but by being obedient, God wants me to be got this is what God wants us to do.
• 1:45:30
  God just don't want us, God didn't just uh save us and pull us out of whatever sins that we were in just to sit back and say, Yeah, thank you, Lord, I'm cool.
• 1:45:39
  I'm such a good guy, and I'm I've been such such a lucky guy that you kept me from going to prison.
• 1:45:44
  You know, I went to prison three times, you kept me from going to prison two more times, and you know, thank you for you know I'm just gonna live this life of uh uh with the Lord and just feel go to church three times a week and feel his presence and and just love the Lord, but no, we got a job to do, and that's to get out there and save the lost.
• 1:46:01
  So I know everybody wants to think we're all you know fine and dandy, but um we're not for anybody watching.
• 1:46:10
  What areas of your heart still need healing?
• 1:46:16
  So, Carrie, I'll start with you.
• 1:46:22
  Um Well, you can answer this question a lot of different ways.
• 1:46:28
  For me, I don't I don't have church hurt, so I don't have that kind of stuff.
• 1:46:34
  I mean, if you're wanting it to speak about healing of my heart, like just in your life, like the things you want God to still heal you from that wounds maybe or I know you have grief.
• 1:46:45
  I do, but that's the thing.
• 1:46:46
  I really don't have I when I walked away, it wasn't because I had issues in the church.
• 1:46:53
  I didn't have church hurt, no one hurt my feelings.
• 1:46:55
  No, I really didn't have abuse growing up.
• 1:46:57
  I didn't.
• 1:46:58
  So I mean I lived a married life.
• 1:47:01
  I I just walked away.
• 1:47:03
  Like, I mean, literally, I wish I had a better answer for you, but I really don't.
• 1:47:07
  I I just walked away.
• 1:47:08
  Totally okay.
• 1:47:09
  I just walked away.
• 1:47:10
  So um the only healing I need is you know, grief.
• 1:47:14
  But but it's it's never gonna go away.
• 1:47:16
  But yeah, I I don't have, I really don't have.
• 1:47:19
  Yeah.
• 1:47:20
  Okay, Victor.
• 1:47:21
  Yeah.
• 1:47:24
  Yeah.
• 1:47:25
  Wow, wow, wow.
• 1:47:27
  So I don't have church hurt either, per se.
• 1:47:32
  However, um, you know, as you grow in the Lord, God is always if you're doing it right and you're if you're continually seeking Him, He'll strip you.
• 1:47:43
  He'll strip you of your own nature, my own nature, my own weaknesses, my own faults, but um also to your hurts.
• 1:47:54
  I think um I I did have some rejection issues, and um I've learned that that's something that the enemy will still try to attack my mind about.
• 1:48:11
  Um, I do know that I serve the the master, the king of kings, the lord of lords, and that he is not rejected who I am.
• 1:48:20
  And um I have to remind myself from time to time that I don't need validation.
• 1:48:26
  If I'm it's nice to have validation, I want it from my parents still as an older gentleman or from my friends um from my pastor from the ministry.
• 1:48:38
  Um, so I don't know that that that's always or forever gone, but um there's things that happened in your past that can bring back those memories, whether it was a uh a marriage or um someone didn't accept you into a ministry or maybe one of your elders, but um there's some hurt still there that I think God is still working on me.
• 1:49:06
  But um what I'm learning is I do tell the Lord, and you talked a little bit about fasting.
• 1:49:12
  When I fast, I say, God's just continue to strip me.
• 1:49:15
  Like that onion, strip me because that's a lie from the enemy.
• 1:49:20
  Um, and I know that God loves me, so yeah.
• 1:49:25
  That's good, Raina.
• 1:49:29
  What areas what areas of your heart do you still need God to heal since you've been back?
• 1:49:40
  Um That's a good question.
• 1:49:44
  I think I'm still trying to find understanding why that direction in my life, Lord, you know.
• 1:49:52
  I think um when I got out of the church I I I wrestled a lot with why, Lord, you know, like if they say This is a sin, I don't want it, you know, take it from me.
• 1:50:03
  Um, and I wrestled with that, and I think n wrestling with the root of it, you know.
• 1:50:09
  Um, I think I've I used to be very much more, and I still am, but much more emotional and more sensitive about a lot of things and more delicate.
• 1:50:17
  And now I just feel like I've I have a wall that I know that there's a barrier to things that I I probably still don't want to acknowledge.
• 1:50:25
  And it's not a bad thing.
• 1:50:27
  I think the Lord's just I think he has me so caught up with him right now.
• 1:50:32
  But there are things that I'm I'm trying to figure out where were the root of these things, Lord?
• 1:50:37
  You know, did they come from childhood?
• 1:50:39
  You know, I I could look at a lot of things still and I'm starting to recognize certain stuff, but I know there's wounds still.
• 1:50:46
  I know there's there's a period of my life, about 10 years, that I just kind of shut the door and really stop thinking about.
• 1:50:56
  Um, and I don't know that I ever really addressed it.
• 1:50:59
  So sometimes I like to believe that the Lord just removed it.
• 1:51:03
  But then, you know, when we have our harder days, we're reminded those are still wounds then.
• 1:51:08
  And so um I think that I try not to uh get so caught up on all those things because of where he's already what what he's already brought me from.
• 1:51:20
  But I think there's still the reality that you do have to sit with the Lord with some things still, Reina.
• 1:51:27
  You know, there is some deep, deep, deep pain there that's gonna affect you down the road if you decide to be in a marriage or be in certain things, you know, or whatever it might be.
• 1:51:37
  So I know um that there are some wounds, but I think again the Lord's given me a space to just allow me to just be more confident in him right now in this season, versus kind of dig up all the reasons why.
• 1:51:50
  I don't think I if I even if I didn't get all the reasons why it'd be okay too.
• 1:51:54
  You know, I think I'm yeah, I I think they're just healing, they will become scars in due time.
• 1:52:00
  Yeah, you know.
• 1:52:02
  So I I just wanted to mention for you and for myself, um, I recently had heard someone talk about the thorn and Paul site.
• 1:52:09
  Yes, and there's so many avenues that that's been talked about.
• 1:52:13
  But one thing that stuck for me was if I didn't have a wound that keeps me constantly going back to the Lord and knowing if God just released me from that wound, how comfortable would my life be that I feel like I don't need him as much.
• 1:52:30
  Right.
• 1:52:30
  And so I I it's helped me to know that okay, God, that wound it might be there the rest of my life, but it reminds me daily that I need you.
• 1:52:40
  Absolutely.
• 1:52:40
  Yeah, that's good.
• 1:52:42
  I I notice mine sometimes with my reaction to things like I have such a deep desire for uh belonging and and acceptance because of my rejection wounds that and God has healed so much, and you know, I would say 95% of the time I'm good.
• 1:53:04
  Yeah, you know, but that that five percent where the awareness of you know the aloneness or or just the need for someone to see me, you know, to be seen and to be acknowledged is so deep.
• 1:53:25
  And I and I you know again I pray all the time, Lord, just heal those places because I d I don't I don't want to have those needs.
• 1:53:35
  I want to be just totally content.
• 1:53:39
  And I think for the most part I am, but I sometimes see it more in the things that grieve me or make me sad because I know that that's a piece of me that still needs to heal.
• 1:53:54
  But God is such a restorer, and I think the things in all of us that where God has brought us from, like those things are not an issue anymore.
• 1:54:05
  They, you know, he's he's just taken them and they're gone.
• 1:54:07
  We're free of that.
• 1:54:09
  But I think just in our personality sometimes and and in our desire, our need for acceptance and love and belonging, I think is is um all connected to what we didn't get or what we long for, you know.
• 1:54:26
  Keith.
• 1:54:28
  Well this is a this is a tough question.
• 1:54:32
  Um you uh when I've been through what I've been through in my life, uh put myself through it, you know, and I've uh been through I've fought every case there probably is a man I can think of.
• 1:54:50
  Um and uh you know when you're in front of a judge and you fight a death penalty case on murder, you plead your case and you go to prison for accessory after-the-fact of murder.
• 1:55:06
  People want to still call you a murderer, and uh they don't know the whole story, they don't know the ins and outs of it, they just want to uh believe the worst.
• 1:55:18
  And in our churches that we are still a part of, we still have people out there that are haters and they still don't like you for whatever reason, things that's happened in the past or whatever, and uh people that have made up things even in the past of uh that is that are non-truths, that uh that you pray to God that you know you really want people to believe a certain way uh about you.
• 1:55:48
  You know, I've been I know what I've been, you know, and I I'll I'll take responsibility for what I've been.
• 1:55:53
  I've I think I went to prison for pretty much everything that I have been, and what I have done, I've not gotten away from nothing.
• 1:56:01
  Um, but the things that people have said that I am and that I have done, that I haven't done, and other people like to gossip and talk about and that I haven't done, it hurts me, you know.
• 1:56:14
  So there is a hurt that's that that is down deep, and you you pray, and I'm the more we talk about it, the more I need to know that I need to fast more about it, because the only way that it's going to be able to be taken care of is through prayer and fasting.
• 1:56:29
  And God's making me going through, letting me go through this for whatever reason it might be.
• 1:56:34
  Um, but there is these uh hurts and pains that um as small and minute that it might be to some, it's huge to me, you know, and it's a validation, you know, uh that I need in my life to to to to let others know that, yeah, you know, yeah, I've done this and I've done that and I've done this and I've done that, but I've never done that.
• 1:56:57
  I can guarantee you that.
• 1:56:59
  But uh people want to shed a light on things that's not true, but uh yeah, there's there's there's there's we're not perfect, you know.
• 1:57:08
  Um but um and just because you come back there there it takes time, like like you know, and there is there is forgiveness, we've got to forgive, and we need to be forgiven from others, you know, and man, it's a process.
• 1:57:25
  Yes, and you know that's a that's a big thing, that's a huge thing, and we've talked about it because we have some situations in our lives where I've learned to get past this and forgive them, and I truly have forgiven them, you know, for uh these these things, and um you and you just want God to just come in like a you know, I forgive them already, Lord.
• 1:57:49
  Why haven't you uh uh shed a light on this already, you know?
• 1:57:53
  But um he has his own way of doing it, and you know, you so hopefully it'll happen, and it might not ever happen, I don't know, but um uh yeah that we all have these pains inside of us and these these hurts that um only the Lord can take away.
• 1:58:11
  Yeah, that's good.
• 1:58:13
  Just a few more questions, people.
• 1:58:15
  I hope you're sticking with us.
• 1:58:16
  Um, what are you believing God for in this next season of your life, Victor?
• 1:58:28
  Wow.
• 1:58:29
  Um really honestly, just to be led by the Holy Ghost.
• 1:58:35
  I want God to lead me in the Holy Ghost.
• 1:58:38
  Um my my goal, I think, is a lot like most of you here, is to win so and to let people know that we serve a God that's coming very, very soon.
• 1:58:51
  Right.
• 1:58:52
  And I want to reach people.
• 1:58:55
  Yeah, that's that's my heart, that's my urgency.
• 1:58:58
  That's what's I mean, I've had health issues, and I feel like God, the only reason why you're keeping me around is because I still have this urgency to tell people that God loves them and that he's coming and get ready.
• 1:59:12
  And I want to see, and we are seeing that ladder rain.
• 1:59:17
  Yeah, that that's just my every day.
• 1:59:19
  I wake up and we share it on our chats and and with songs and and things that we see that's happening in the world, and I love sharing it with all of you because what a time that we're living in that God would choose us to live in this time, and and I just don't plan on wasting it.
• 1:59:34
  Yeah, very good.
• 1:59:36
  What do you believe in God for in the next season, Raina?
• 1:59:40
  That's the hardest question.
• 1:59:42
  You know, we could look to the past and all these things, but what to come, the puzzle pieces that he'll put together, you know, or the things that we're hopeful for.
• 1:59:51
  Um, you know what?
• 1:59:52
  I think I'm in this season, I just, you know, I'm ready to, you know, I there's an urgency, there's a feeling that just says, Lord, I don't want to be complacent, you know.
• 2:00:03
  I think he's done such a work in my life in the last year and a half, and I'm done it being about me.
• 2:00:11
  Yeah, you know, like I'm ready to to go out there and you know, just be a part of the community that wants to get involved in the fellowship, that wants to get involved in the ministry of just, you know, sharing God's love.
• 2:00:23
  You know, I think I shared that last night at Bible study.
• 2:00:25
  I was like, I don't even know what the prayer request is, other than there's people who need God right now.
• 2:00:32
  They need him, they're their souls are lost.
• 2:00:35
  And I think about my own family.
• 2:00:36
  You know, I think about my family who's lost.
• 2:00:39
  I think about the the guys that I work with, you know, that are so dark and heartless and and lonely that I'm only a few new, you know, and I'm trying to be bolder in in doing that without getting fired.
• 2:00:52
  But, you know, the Lord's will be done.
• 2:00:54
  But I just want him to open whatever door he wants for me in order to spread his word, you know.
• 2:00:59
  And um, like I said, I'm just I'm ready to get out of this season of me and just step out of faith and um take a chance and opening doors, and if he wants it open, he'll open.
• 2:01:13
  Well, what she's not telling you is that she just stepped out in faith to start a business and she bought a uh a truck because what's the name of what's the name of it, the chapel.
• 2:01:26
  Well, originally I had an idea for a uh a cafe that had a a hidden chapel in it, you know, just to be available to the community.
• 2:01:35
  You know, churches should be open every day.
• 2:01:39
  All the time for people to come to people to come.
• 2:01:42
  I think I I'm so grateful that I had a church king when I was backsliding because I would go sit in the pew and I would just sit there and and day in, you know, in early mornings or at night.
• 2:01:53
  And and so I think about the community knowing that there is a place whether you know God, you don't know God, there's this little secret place that you could go to.
• 2:02:01
  Now, can I afford that in my in this season of my life?
• 2:02:04
  No.
• 2:02:05
  So I think And it's to win souls.
• 2:02:07
  What do you do now?
• 2:02:08
  To win souls, so yeah, I bought a little truck.
• 2:02:11
  The goal is, you know, I have experience in the food industry and stuff.
• 2:02:15
  So I bought this little, you know, hot and cold truck that uh to sell prepared food, but it comes with the message.
• 2:02:22
  Nice.
• 2:02:23
  It just, you know, I think I need to find a way to get to the people and and give them, yeah, sure, some good food, but a message or a prayer or a church, you know, like to be able to just let them know there's a church down the road.
• 2:02:37
  And so, yeah, you know, the Lord really opened every door.
• 2:02:41
  I was so anxious, I was so um overwhelmed by it.
• 2:02:45
  And you know, Kathy, you you really continue to push the idea that he's probably just telling you to step out on faith.
• 2:02:52
  And I did, and that the Lord opened every door after that, and so um, you know, hopefully he continues to bless it.
• 2:03:01
  If you see a little box truck out in the community, hopefully the food's good, but the Lord is even gooder better.
• 2:03:10
  I'm hoping we could do drive-through prayer with your truck that the Lindsay church does and just be out there praying for I just want to go everywhere.
• 2:03:18
  That's the point of the prepared food, is not having to, you know, sit there and wait for people to come.
• 2:03:23
  I'm I want to go to people, I want to go to locations, I want to go to wherever it is.
• 2:03:27
  So yeah.
• 2:03:28
  It's not even about it's not even about the food.
• 2:03:31
  That's the bonus.
• 2:03:32
  Yeah, right, right, exactly.
• 2:03:34
  No, so yeah.
• 2:03:36
  Um, I want to see, I think all of us at this table just have a burden for the lost because we know where we've been, but I want to see revival in California first in the city.
• 2:03:48
  So we're trying to bring the Jesus Tent revival here.
• 2:03:52
  Yeah, and um, you know, I'm begging, pleading, doing everything we can to bring it.
• 2:03:58
  But I I want to see the prodigals come home and I want to see California just get on fire for God.
• 2:04:06
  And I believe God's doing a work here, you know, because I do think time is short.
• 2:04:11
  And um, yeah, Carrie.
• 2:04:14
  I same.
• 2:04:15
  I just I I'm looking forward to what's what's coming.
• 2:04:20
  Um, I think we can all feel it.
• 2:04:22
  We know it's coming.
• 2:04:23
  It's just, you know, slower than we want, maybe.
• 2:04:26
  But um, I'm looking forward to our family and friends and being saved, the ones that are not.
• 2:04:32
  Um, prodigals coming home and visitors and people who've never heard of God, because there's probably still people out there that don't know.
• 2:04:42
  Um, but yeah, I I'm just I'm I'm excited about what's coming.
• 2:04:46
  Yeah.
• 2:04:46
  Yeah.
• 2:04:47
  Keith, what about you?
• 2:04:49
  Well, man, that's a that's an easy question for me.
• 2:04:51
  I mean, I just uh we had for our unshackled conference, we had 45 people come from Teen Challenge, uh Faith Fighters, uh uh uh what was the other one?
• 2:05:01
  Um turning point.
• 2:05:03
  Turning point, and we filled up uh four or five rows of of men that just came to hear our testimonies.
• 2:05:09
  And you know what?
• 2:05:10
  That's where it's at.
• 2:05:11
  I'm gonna tell you what, that's where we at.
• 2:05:13
  If we can get the church to a place to where they can get a desire for the lost, that's where we have to do.
• 2:05:18
  This is this group right here is what needs to be the the the the catalyst to be able to go into our church and just push our church into a a revival atmosphere to where we want for the church.
• 2:05:31
  What I desire, what it's gonna happen, it will happen, it's gonna happen, is um I'm almost off, I'm off, I'm I'm off of uh I just got out of uh uh off of probation in Tularie County.
• 2:05:42
  I'm really close to getting off of probation in Kings County.
• 2:05:45
  And as soon as I get off of probation in Kings County, I am gonna do everything in my power to get into Bob Wiley's detention facility.
• 2:05:54
  And when that happens, I'm gonna tell you something, I'm gonna be the happiest guy in the world because I'll be able to go walk in.
• 2:06:00
  Can you imagine this?
• 2:06:01
  I'll be able to walk in the sally port, walk in the back door with all the sergeants, all the guys that just hated me, and get to walk in and talk to the fellas about how Jesus uh changed my life, you know, and to be able to go door to door to door to door and show them the new the new be.
• 2:06:20
  And there's no way, there's no better testimony than being able to show them what God has done for you.
• 2:06:25
  And not just by being.
• 2:06:26
  And that's why they're coming to church, but that's why they're coming to church because they see this change, they want this change.
• 2:06:32
  And it's women too.
• 2:06:33
  It's the it's the old girlfriends that we've had in our life, uh uh the old home, the homegirls that we've had in our life that they say, wow, this is what we want.
• 2:06:41
  We want this life.
• 2:06:42
  And I deal with them on a daily basis.
• 2:06:45
  So um get ready, uh Pentecostal Lighthouse and start getting some vans, getting some money raised to get some vans because we're gonna fill up these vans.
• 2:06:53
  And when we fill up these vans, we're gonna fill up the church.
• 2:06:56
  They're gonna have to get a new church, and that's what we're that's what it's about.
• 2:06:59
  And for all the hopefully there's some preachers out there, pastors, but man, the one thing about prodigals, when they come home, they're on fire for God, they really just they just really want to reach the lost, I think, you know.
• 2:07:12
  And um, okay, that's so exciting.
• 2:07:15
  Yeah, you got man, Keith, you got the anointing to preach for sure.
• 2:07:20
  Um, how can people pray for you, Victor?
• 2:07:24
  How can people pray for you?
• 2:07:27
  And be real, you know, be honest about what you need prayer for.
• 2:07:32
  I would pray that God uh just give me revelation of his anointing and what he wants.
• 2:07:41
  Um, obedience is where I'm at.
• 2:07:44
  That's the season that I'm I'm learning and to obey the voice of the Lord.
• 2:07:48
  And um, you know, we we have so many distractions in life when it comes to family, friends, job, work.
• 2:07:55
  Um, but I I recently literally told my pastor, this year I want God to stretch me, stretch me beyond what I think.
• 2:08:05
  Yeah, because I believe God has greater vision for all of us, He has greater vision than we can imagine.
• 2:08:11
  So if you're listening and you decide to pray for Brother Victor, pray that God would use me uh for his glory and that I will do the will of the Lord, not my will.
• 2:08:22
  I'm gonna add something to that because he will not say this, but um he needs he needs prayer for his body, he's finding some very serious health issues, and God's sustaining him and strengthening him week by week, but he needs a miracle, and um, he just needs whole new blood, he just needs black brand new blood, he needs a creative miracle.
• 2:08:46
  Um, so his name is Victor Milano, and we need to we he just need complete and utter healing in his body.
• 2:08:55
  Yeah, Raina.
• 2:08:57
  How can people pray?
• 2:08:59
  Um, you know what?
• 2:09:01
  Just the I think you said something earlier that just is so true is there's the reality of life, and then there's all these ideas and all these burdens that the Lord places on our heart, and sometimes they get scrambled together and we don't know how to do his work clearly because they're just it's just going, it's just like this, and it's that and it's this and it's that.
• 2:09:24
  And so I think for me that's something I I do struggle with.
• 2:09:27
  I've never really fulfilled things in my life or felt good, but now that it's for the Lord, there's a different confidence there, right?
• 2:09:35
  So I think that I just want him to continue to give me the vision and and make it clear for me because my mind goes everywhere.
• 2:09:45
  I want to do this for God, I want to do that for cafe, track, this and that.
• 2:09:48
  Let's go to the street, let's go down town, 11 o'clock.
• 2:09:50
  Okay, let's do this.
• 2:09:51
  Let's go, you know, like you just, but there's a per like there's a paralysis that comes with that sometimes.
• 2:09:56
  You freeze up and you're just like, so where do I go?
• 2:10:00
  And then what do I do?
• 2:10:01
  You know, so I want that liberty.
• 2:10:04
  You know, I think this last week I took that step, you know, in one thing, but I want to continue to take those steps and be free in it, you know, hearing you when you speak about like, well, it's gonna, and I'm gonna like that that boldness is something that that you know, fearlessness to just do is something I I I need.
• 2:10:22
  I wouldn't I need prayer for that.
• 2:10:23
  I I I wish I could sound like that sometimes.
• 2:10:27
  And and granted, I am where I am because the Lord's working, but that is my prayer.
• 2:10:32
  I want I want boldness, I want clear visions of what he wants me to do for him.
• 2:10:38
  Yeah, that's it.
• 2:10:39
  That's good.
• 2:10:39
  Yeah, Carrie, what do you want people to pray for you for?
• 2:10:43
  Um probably the first thing that comes to my mind would be strength for my spirit and physically, but mostly my strength for my spirit, because life's hard.
• 2:10:58
  Uh, and boldness in him.
• 2:11:01
  Um, I need more boldness.
• 2:11:04
  You and I have talked about that, um, and more understanding of his word and what his plan is for my life.
• 2:11:11
  That's good.
• 2:11:12
  Keith, what do you need?
• 2:11:13
  You know, when you said that, immediately I thought of, you know, my mom and dad are passed away.
• 2:11:17
  And so when they were alive, I knew no matter where I was in my muck and my mire, no matter where I was in my life, I knew that my mom and dad were praying for me.
• 2:11:26
  I didn't have to worry about whether they were praying for me.
• 2:11:29
  They knew I knew they were.
• 2:11:30
  So I had that covering and didn't even realize it.
• 2:11:33
  But when they were gone, I realized it.
• 2:11:35
  I realized it, I felt it when they were gone that that I don't have those prayers anymore.
• 2:11:41
  And so that's powerful.
• 2:11:42
  It is powerful.
• 2:11:43
  That's really so I've always, even when I was running around, and people I'd run into someone from the church and they would say, Hey, I'm praying for you.
• 2:11:53
  And I would stop right there, right?
• 2:11:55
  Be high as a kite and go, Man, I'll tell you what, I'll take that.
• 2:11:59
  I'll take that because Because I knew how powerful I still believed in prayer.
• 2:12:03
  I still believed in God.
• 2:12:04
  I just because I didn't have a relationship with God.
• 2:12:06
  I still believed in the power of prayer, because prayer does work.
• 2:12:10
  So, and when you when you pray for me, Keith Battle, pray that God gives me direction in life.
• 2:12:17
  I am always wanting to know the direction of God, and which way God wants me to go.
• 2:12:23
  Give me the strength and give me the knowledge.
• 2:12:25
  I want knowledge.
• 2:12:28
  Sometimes I think, man, I just don't have enough knowledge.
• 2:12:30
  You know, if I had Victor's knowledge and my zeal, I think, man, I would be unstoppable, you know, because it's just it's just you the knowledge isn't there.
• 2:12:40
  And so, and I want that knowledge, but you know, um it just it's it's it's one and and and that's but and I I just need that direction.
• 2:12:48
  So when you pray, pray that God uh gives me direction.
• 2:12:52
  Yeah, yeah.
• 2:12:52
  That's very good, very good.
• 2:12:54
  Okay.
• 2:12:56
  So finish this sentence.
• 2:12:59
  I came back to God because well, I didn't come back to God.
• 2:13:05
  I'm not a prodigal, and I know that we talked about this.
• 2:13:08
  We yeah, you upslid.
• 2:13:10
  So he was born and raised in church, but he said he never knew God.
• 2:13:16
  So so I don't want to confuse.
• 2:13:18
  What was the question?
• 2:13:19
  What did you say?
• 2:13:20
  I came back to God, but you knew God.
• 2:13:23
  Yeah, I mean, you knew he was there, so you came to God because I came back, I I came to God because uh I knew that I needed him and wanted him in my life, and I had a spiritual awakening, and um I asked God into my life, and he changed my life in a moment's notice.
• 2:13:42
  That's why.
• 2:13:43
  Yeah, you were desperate.
• 2:13:45
  Well, I was very much desperate, yes.
• 2:13:47
  And I was uh, I mean, you've heard my testimony before.
• 2:13:51
  I mean, I just I give it all to God.
• 2:13:53
  I I I ask God for forgiveness.
• 2:13:55
  I repented of my sins, and God changed my life in that moment.
• 2:13:59
  I've never been the same, and so I keep sometimes I even have to say I say it over again in my life in my head, and and that that's a true statement, you know.
• 2:14:08
  I mean, it was um that's when I was saved, you know, and I've never it's never been the same since then.
• 2:14:15
  Oh yeah, okay.
• 2:14:16
  Carrie, I came back to God because um because my heart was shattered and I knew he could he's the only one that could heal it.
• 2:14:26
  Yeah, yeah.
• 2:14:28
  That's why I came back to God.
• 2:14:30
  I was heartbroken, and the night I came to church, the evangelist preached on Luke 418, which has become my life verse, that um he came to heal, bind up the broken heart, and it was for me.
• 2:14:46
  Yeah, and the Lord has healed my heart in so many ways.
• 2:14:51
  Yeah.
• 2:14:52
  Raina.
• 2:14:53
  I think um I came back to God one because desp you know, I was desperate.
• 2:14:59
  I was desperate in in that time of my life that all I knew to do was to come back to him, and I think because uh he loved me first, like he he had there was that n knowledge of that he loved me before all that I've done, and yet he still drew me back to him, and he loved me so much to you know, set me apart from everything and and and you know, put maybe that desperate feeling in, you know, in my life to to remember that he is love.
• 2:15:34
  Right.
• 2:15:35
  You know, and so um it's palatable.
• 2:15:38
  Yes, and I think that just is one thing that never left me was the evidence of him was always surrounding me and it always reminded me of his love for me.
• 2:15:49
  And in that desperate time, I just knew that because he loved me first, I need to love him back.
• 2:15:55
  I couldn't deny him anymore.
• 2:15:56
  You know, so he was drawing you, yes, Victor.
• 2:16:02
  Uh I came back to the Lord because uh there there's just nothing like him.
• 2:16:09
  I tried it all.
• 2:16:10
  Yeah, I think the only thing that I didn't try in the world was drugs.
• 2:16:14
  I was never a drug user, but other than that, I I tried it all.
• 2:16:18
  And um, although there is um fun and and there's enjoyment and sin for a season, I had already knew what it was like to feel the Lord.
• 2:16:29
  I knew what it was like to feel his anointing, and there's nothing that comes even close to him.
• 2:16:35
  If you're watching this, there's nothing that will ever satisfy your soul, like the Spirit of God.
• 2:16:42
  Absolutely.
• 2:16:43
  And um, you just said it.
• 2:16:45
  I feel like he was drawing me.
• 2:16:47
  Yeah, I wasn't coming back to him, but he kept drawing me.
• 2:16:50
  Yeah, so I finally complied.
• 2:16:53
  Yeah, yeah, I think so too.
• 2:16:55
  Yeah, he's good.
• 2:16:57
  Um, is there any final thoughts?
• 2:16:59
  Does anyone want to share any final thoughts?
• 2:17:07
  Yeah, well, I I was thinking when you said that, I remember when I was living with Summer and I wrote on with her lipstick on her on her on her mirror and said, When you've tried everything and everything has failed, try Jesus.
• 2:17:26
  And I was in my I was I wasn't even living for God, but I knew I remember that.
• 2:17:31
  And she never took that off of the mirror.
• 2:17:33
  That was crazy.
• 2:17:34
  But it's a true statement.
• 2:17:36
  When you've tried everything, yeah, and everything has failed, try Jesus, and that's the truth.
• 2:17:40
  Yeah, I think.
• 2:17:41
  I was just thinking the same thing.
• 2:17:43
  Yeah.
• 2:17:44
  If you're hearing us, there's gonna be, and you're not living for the Lord right now, there's gonna be times where the Lord is gonna show up, even though you're not serving him, and he's gonna remind you that he loves you, he's gonna remind you that he's right there, and he's a gentleman and he's waiting for you.
• 2:18:04
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:18:07
  His love is like no other.
• 2:18:10
  Um, and so if you guys want to pray for us, um, we just want I want to reach prodigals.
• 2:18:18
  We all want to reach the lost.
• 2:18:20
  Um, and we can't do it alone.
• 2:18:24
  And you know, pray for the backsliders.
• 2:18:27
  We compile a list.
• 2:18:29
  Um, we I I know that some friends of ours that live in Louisiana, they have bottle after bottle of prodigal names in it.
• 2:18:37
  Our church has a big old bottle of prodigal names, and you may not know who they are, but Jesus does.
• 2:18:44
  Um, so if you would just call up a prayer for the prodigals out there that need to come home, that God would trouble them, that God would draw them, that God would just not stop speaking until they answer, um that would make us all happy.
• 2:19:02
  So um thank you so much for joining us.
• 2:19:05
  I hope this was helpful and um we'd love to hear from you.
• 2:19:09
  So um if you want to comment, like, share, post, it helps us a lot.
• 2:19:15
  Um, we're trying to reach as many people as we can in the prodigal community.
• 2:19:20
  And there are parents out there that have kids that are backslid, and there are preachers out there that are backslid, there's every kind of backslider out there.
• 2:19:30
  So if you help us spread the word, you know, maybe maybe it'll be just what they need.
• 2:19:34
  So thank you for watching and um God bless you.
• 2:19:38
  Bye.
• 2:19:38
  We are so glad you joined us.
• 2:19:41
  If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, we would love to hear from you.
• 2:19:47
  If you'd like to support our ministry, your donation will be tax deductible.
• 2:19:52
  Visit our website at theredeemedbackslider.org.
• 2:19:56
  We hope you will tune in for our next episode.