Latest / Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan / The Legal Mistakes Most Founders Don't Even Know They're Making | Ana Casanueva on Founder Talk

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The Legal Mistakes Most Founders Don't Even Know They're Making | Ana Casanueva on Founder Talk · Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan

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Today's guest is Anna Casa Nueva, a business attorney and
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founder of Casa Nueva Law, who works with founders and growing
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companies on the legal side of business or building and scaling
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businesses. Whether you're thinking about
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selling your business one day, you're signing contracts right
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now, we all are, or you're just trying to make sure that you're
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actually protected as you grow. This is a conversation I think
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every single founder needs to hear because most founders think
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they're covered, but then they're making legal mistakes
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they don't even realize, or there's just opportunities in
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the business that they can expand upon.
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And they're relying on contracts or IP that actually aren't
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protecting them, protecting them.
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And they're waiting too long to fix it.
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And sometimes that too long is until it costs you too much.
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So Anna, welcome to the show. How you feeling?
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Thank you. Go on.
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Great. Thanks for having me.
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Awesome. Excited to have you here.
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Let me get that mic a little bit closer to you.
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Just move it. Here you go.
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Perfect. There we go.
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Perfect. OK, so let's start with this.
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I'm curious, when you come into a business, you work with a lot
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of founder LED businesses, small medium sized businesses, right?
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What do you see that's putting them at risk?
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What are some of the problems when you pull the curtain back
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and the founder, the business owners like, no, everything's
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great, we're fine, we're rolling, you know, what are some
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of the the risk that you see? And then I'm curious on some of
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the opportunities that you see as well.
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Yeah, I feel like many of the founders feel really excited
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about the product they are building or the company they are
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creating and then they don't think about the legal side right
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at the beginning. I I've seen that it's cheaper
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and it's way more product to think about the legal impact and
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build it with a base. And that is sound rather than
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just starting. And then as you go trying to
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patch because you realize that they are like either contracts
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that you don't have. And as you mentioned, that can
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be very, very expensive for the companies or the OR the type of
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company that they created is not the right fit.
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So the type of entity or the like, even thinking about
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whether analysts see whether a corporation like all of those
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questions are things that they should be thinking right since
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the beginning. And what are what are some of
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the biggest things that you see? Let's let's say you're an
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established founder. I'm going to assume that people
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are saying no LLC versus S Corp versus C Corp.
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I'm going to assume they're they're past that potentially.
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What are some of the biggest mistakes that you see founders
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making when it comes to their operations or legal that are
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maybe 5-10 years in that are more established?
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Yeah, I think surprisingly you still see people like not
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reading the contracts or just getting into contracts that have
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not great conditions for them. And I feel like it can be like,
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well, it's just a contract. Like we signed the LOI, it's got
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the business terms are are there.
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But then you don't realize that the legal terms can impact in
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the future. Like either you can't get out of
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a contract because you didn't set a way out or, or it can be
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expensive in many other ways. So I feel like reading the
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contracts is important. So sometimes I feel like, you
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know, being transparent as we like to do on the show, this is
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the real estate room and entrepreneurship.
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We're going to keep it real with everyone.
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I feel like, and I'm curious how you guys feel listening.
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I sometimes just be and now we're using AI, which I don't
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know if it's helping or hurting us, to be honest, because it's
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probably saying, yeah, everything's good or maybe it's
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not or, but I sometimes feel like I just kind of, I know the
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people I'm working with, whether it's a client or employee,
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whatever it is. And I feel like the trust I
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have, the relationship I have with them, I, I sometimes let
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that probably take the front seat and then assume it's
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probably fine. Like either we don't need a
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contract or if we have 1, you know, because I trust this
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person, they're going to be good for it.
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They're not going to screw us over.
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They're local, whatever it is. Or we have 1 and I just don't
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pay enough attention to it. I don't have a lawyer look at
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it. What are the two risk points
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there? Do you need a contract if you're
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doing business with a client? Yeah, definitely you need a
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contract like the the friendly handshake is not going to get
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you like through the growth of the of the business and it can
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create many issues because sometimes it understanding might
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be different from one party than from the other.
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And I feel like it's, it's interesting you mention AI
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because you see people thinking like, well, I can draft a
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contract using AI and that's it, right?
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And the way we see it from the legal perspective is that it's
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great to use AII mean, I love it, but the right type of AI and
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sometimes a contract that is like just created using cloud
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GBT, it looks more like a like a term sheet and it doesn't have
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the like right meat in terms of legal terms and conditions.
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So I'm fine with people using AI, but I think it's still good
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to send it to a lawyer and use what you created using AI and
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make it like a real agreement. That is going to be, well, maybe
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not bulletproof, but close to being bulletproof and lasting
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like a long relationship. And what's the is the only risk
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of not having a contract? Mostly that if they just do like
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for when you're the client or when you're the provider, let's
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say, and you're working with the client, right?
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You know, I could charge a client X amount of money for X
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amount of services. Is my big risk that they don't
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pay me or what's the if I don't have a contract or what's the
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big kind of risk point? Not only it could be like yes,
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no, that they don't pay you and you don't have any legal way to
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go after them. So that's an important one.
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But then liabilities like indemnifications.
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So you need to think that at some point you are opening
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yourself to being sued or you don't have the right legal
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action because you don't have anything in writing allowing you
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to sue the other party. And we know that we live in a
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litigious country and society. So you need to think about that
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like. Do you see companies that are
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five 10/15/20 years in business that are still just they don't
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have kind of basic contracts with clients?
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Definitely like, and you see people patching like they
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created something fast and it works from a business
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perspective until you run into these issues and then trying to
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go back and just like fix what you didn't create.
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Well since the beginning, it can be a lot of work and it can get
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expensive. Also from the legal perspective,
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like paying lawyers to fix things that you didn't create in
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a sound way since the beginning can be it's not really
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practical. So if I sign up a new client
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today, what should I be sending them in terms of documentation
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agreements? You know, when I worked at
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corporate, it was like, and I understand why they did it all
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now, but it was just like part of a process.
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You had a service agreement which kind of outlined the
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general scope of of how we do business.
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And then you had an exhibit A and sometimes exhibit B's for
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other things, but the exhibit A kind of outlined, it was more
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like the maybe the scope of work, right?
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Is, is that what every situation calls for?
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If you're a service based company, product based like
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what? It depends.
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It really depends on whether you're providing a service or
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you are selling goods. Like, it really depends.
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Let's say it's a service. But if it's a service, I I do
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agree like you should have like a master services agreement or
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some sort of document that gives you the terms, the main terms
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and conditions. You can call it an MSA, you can
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call it like a service agreement.
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It doesn't matter. But you need a document that
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lays out all of the terms and conditions.
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And then whether you want to call it Exhibit A or it can be a
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separate order form or it can be a statement of work, it doesn't
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matter as long as it's under the umbrella of the main agreement.
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And then you can you can build on it.
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Like sometimes you have the business terms as an exhibit,
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You might want to include a policy depending on what type of
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service you're providing, you might want to include like Slas.
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So it really depends, yeah. It's one of those things you
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probably don't necessarily think about until something happens
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because you, we kind of think like, oh, nothing's going to
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happen. I'm not going to get sued for
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this. And then something happens,
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unfortunately. And then you're kind of like,
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we're looking at everything. It's almost like, I think like
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cyber attacks. It's like people have people
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think about cyber and like protection and things like that
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until something happens and then they go, whoa, I was pretty
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exposed here. Yeah, no, definitely.
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And the insurance, it's one of the things that you would be
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surprised that some people start operating without thinking about
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the insurance. And insurance is something that
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like in this country, you really can't do business without
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because either like insurance to protect yourself from liability,
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insurance to protect yourself from cybersecurity.
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And you see all the time and even your clients or other
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vendors that you might use, they are going to look into that and
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they are going to ask for a certificate of insurance.
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So you need to have something in place because that might stop
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you from doing business at a certain point.
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That's a good point too. I, I want to get back to the AI
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stuff. We will get there because I want
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to get your take. Because there's a lot of people
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saying right now, you know, lawyers are going to be replaced
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by AI and, and doctors and this and that.
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And you know, there's always like, hey, there's the, the
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extreme on one side, the extreme on the other side, and then
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there's like the truth in the middle.
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So I want to talk about that. But a lot of times this
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conversation seems like it's very like, hey, do this to avoid
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something bad. What are some of the situations
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though, that actually are creating opportunities that are
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maybe proactively helping a business grow?
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Because I think they might be listening being like, well, I
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think I'm covered or I'm not worried about that.
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But maybe what's the other side? What's the other side of the
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coin, where maybe you're doing some of the stuff proactively
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can actually help you grow or scale better?
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Yeah. And I love that you're
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mentioning that because you're right.
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Like sometimes we only see these from the scary part, like what
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happens if I don't have it? But you're right, I mean on the
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positive side as well. I got a break for one second.
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I got a my can didn't open, my liquid death of water can didn't
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open. So I have to manually break it
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with a pen. OK, back to the scheduled
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program. We're good.
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We go and cut that stuff. Either we just leave it in.
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Yeah, that was resourceful. Yeah.
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So no, I think thinking about the positive side is also
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important because with the right type of agreement, you can set
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yourself ready for growth. You can agree into many
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different terms that from the business side, like you can set,
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I don't know, like different, different ways in which you can
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like compensate the other party depending on growth.
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So it's not only because you need to be afraid that somebody
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will sue you, but it's also that to be able to to keep going and
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to perform the business that you want to perform, it's important
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to have a clear understanding of where you are so that both
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parties know. And the the risk of just trying
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to do go to chachapa to your clawed and say develop this,
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develop this, develop this. Because I know even I've done
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this before too, where it's like you want them to look at
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something you say here's a document scan this.
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Have any red flags come up? Is that like maybe step one
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before they get to you or say just bypass that or how?
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What do you think? A lot of them use it as step one
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before getting to me. And I have to admit that it's
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helpful because sometimes they have a clear idea of what they
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want or they can say like I want to create this type of of
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agreement or I saw these different options or even to
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build like in corporate governance.
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Like I'm thinking that I want to raise capital and thinking about
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going in this direction or a different direction.
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Because they already did the research on using AI.
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And that's totally fine. But I think that at the moment
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of creating the documents, the document that that you get from
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just just using AI is not going to be as full or as complete as
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a real agreement. And I use AI myself, but it's a
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legal AI and I have to, I mean, I have told me that I sometimes
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exchange some ideas, like I throw them into a Chai GBT and
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see what they come back with. Yeah.
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But for creating I use AI that is directed at lawyers, so it's
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completely different It's. Probably more confidential and
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there's walls up and stuff. Right.
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And it's based on on regulations on laws, on cases.
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So you have like the legal framework and that's not going
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to like simple AI is not going to give you that like it's very
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targeted that lawyers. Right.
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What if I want to sell my business one day?
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You know, I think about I think 2 examples here when I started
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Impacts, which is like 6 years ago, which is my company where
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we help build in house content operations for 7-8 figure B2B
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companies. We help them do marketing at a
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high level and drive revenue without needing an agency to do
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it all for them. That business was like I started
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on a whim. It was like a side hustle.
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Then it turned into full time. Like I didn't document a lot of
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things. I mean, my expenses and stuff
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for taxes, yes, but like when I hired people offshore wherever
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contract 1099 W 2, in some cases, it was just like thrown
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together and I thought about man, if I were to try to sell
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that business one day, not that I do, but if I did, it just be
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like hard to gather everything together.
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So when I built started podcast builders, which I may sell one
13:23
day because it's, but it's being built where it doesn't have to
13:25
run all around me eventually. I'm more intentional now.
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Like even when we bring out an offshore person, they sign the
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contracts and the agreements and there's like certain forms they
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fill out and I'm tracking everything more at a just more
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detailed level because I know if someone looks there, the 1st
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place they're going to go is let me see the books, let me see the
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finances, let me see the agreements.
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Oh, you have three contractors overseas.
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What's your agreement with them? When do they start?
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What do they sign? You have this person over here
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doing work at 1099 or this W 2. And so how do you look at that
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if you want to sell your business, what should you be
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evaluating right now? Yeah, I feel like you need to
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think that a purchaser is going to want to do a due diligence
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and that due diligence is going to include all of the documents,
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like all of the corporate governance documents that
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everything is said like in in place and they're going to look
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at your agreements with your clients, vendors that everything
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is in order. The accounting is going to be
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very important as well. And I'm not an accountant, I'm a
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lawyer, but I do work like a long side to side with the
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accounting side and the finance side because that's also going
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to be very important. So most likely they are going to
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do a due diligence and decide how to how how much to offer for
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your business. So if you have everything clean,
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it's going to be way easier than if you try to recreate things
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that you didn't have in the past.
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So it's, yeah, that's very important to have things clean
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before selling. Yeah, that's how exactly why I
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look at it like that. So what are some of the big
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mistakes that founders make when they're trying to sell their
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business but they didn't do the last several years, you know,
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from illegal or, or contract side?
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Or what are some of the big ones that they're like, well, this is
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causing me a big problem and maybe I lose the deal now, maybe
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I can't sell it. Yeah, because imagine going back
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in time and thinking like, OK, I don't have an agreement with
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this client. That is very important to me,
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No. And then even the client you're.
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Right, that's. Right.
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I mean, it could be like client vendors, but imagine trying to
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put in paper like the handshake agreement that you had 10 years
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ago. They're just my friends.
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I just know them. It's like, trust me, it won't
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work out. They're like, we don't care
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about that. We.
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Need to, yeah. And then maybe you tried to put
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it in writing and you don't have the same idea because things
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were just working out so. That's a good point.
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I didn't think about the client side for acquisitions and
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purchases. I thought it just my brain went
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towards like your own books, the internal books, which they care
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about. But of course they're going to
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want to see, hey, and if you do have these recurring clients,
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where's the where's the agreement?
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So you could be like, I have a client right now on monthly
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retainers and they're going to go another 12 months.
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Like cool, is that in writing? Yeah.
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And even even more so, like as you mentioned that I'm thinking
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if you have agreements in place, maybe you have a clause that
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doesn't let you transfer like transfer the business or maybe
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you are like incurring in a penalty if you transfer the
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business. So the assignment clause is very
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important and it's something that maybe nobody looked at.
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So if you had to say top three agreements that all founders
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should have in place, what would be that checklist?
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I know there's more, but if you said the most important top
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three, every business should have this.
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If you don't and you're listening right now, talk to
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Anna or get it done. And more than top three, I'm
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going to talk about like 3 different angles that you need
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to cover. So one is internal.
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So corporate governance, thinking about having a your
16:52
organization organizational documents in place if you change
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your name that you did it like the documents with the Secretary
17:00
of State, like all of the documents, the board resolutions
17:04
and shareholders resolutions, like all of that needs to be in
17:07
order. Now what if?
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It's just one founder and then you have maybe a team or
17:10
something, but it's like kind of one person in control of the
17:12
business. Yeah.
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So I would say still like internally then you incorporated
17:16
the the company like the the right way legally incorporated.
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So that's that's one side like the internal, the agreement with
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your that would cover, let's say an agreement if you have
17:28
employees or if you have contractors like that, that
17:32
would be part of the internal. Then I think the other angle
17:35
would be clients, like all of the client facing document,
17:39
whether you have your form of MSA or if you provide different
17:43
types of services, like one type of agreement for each type of
17:47
services that you provide. And then the other angle, the
17:51
third one would be the vendors. So you should have agreement
17:56
with your vendors because let's say your agreement, your
17:59
business relies on software technology from a vendor like
18:03
you need to look into that agreement as well.
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And that might come from them and not from you.
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It's going to be their form, but you need to look into that and
18:11
make sure you you have an agreement signed.
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And that's mostly if it's AI would say a bigger partnership
18:17
like if you're using Air table or like Asana or like I don't
18:21
think you need an agreement for that, right?
18:22
You're signing something but. You're signing the terms and
18:24
conditions. Yeah, OK.
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But if you are developing, yeah, like let's say I don't know, you
18:31
are a fintech and you rely on like, I don't know, software
18:37
that is going to be part of your core on the way how you operate,
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you're going to need an agreement for that.
18:41
Right. I hope this is getting people
18:44
thinking. I know it's getting me thinking
18:46
because I know, you know, one of the things about founders and
18:49
entrepreneurs, one of our blessings is that we are very
18:52
go, go, go and we'll get, we'll knock, we'll probably run
18:55
through a brick wall when there was a, a door right on the other
18:57
side of that, you know, but some of this can kind of kick you in,
19:00
in the ass on the back end because you're just, you're not
19:03
covered and you know, it creates more work later.
19:05
Yeah, And what you said, it's like one of the reasons why I
19:08
like to work with founders because it's fast, it's it's
19:13
creative, it's exciting and and I love that pace.
19:17
And I feel like more the old fashioned way of thinking about
19:21
lawyers is more like, oh, they might try to stop my business or
19:25
they're going to tell me things that I don't want to hear.
19:28
But I feel like when you see the lawyer and the legal advisor as
19:31
somebody who is on your side, who wants to protect you while
19:35
allowing you to like grow and do your business in a sound way, I
19:40
feel like that's the way I want to be looked at.
19:42
Totally. What I had a follow up question
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to that. Well, we can talk about IP.
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I'm curious about that. What because I think, you know,
19:52
whether it's a trademark patent, you know, whatever it might be,
19:55
what does it mean to have IP? And and oh, you know what?
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I was going to ask you about this podcast.
20:00
People coming in as guests for this show, should I have some
20:03
type of agreement that they signed because his contents
20:05
going out in the world or do you think that's just not really
20:07
relevant? I think you should do something
20:10
very simple disclaimer, but a disclaimer and also because like
20:13
you are going to use their images, you're going to use
20:16
their, their voice. They're like you're going to use
20:19
it to. And I don't know how like the
20:23
compensation side works for you as the owner of the podcast, but
20:27
I feel like you should cover yourself just in case.
20:30
See, there we go great advice. And I know other people have
20:34
podcasts listening to this or they have events or they have
20:36
things that they're doing or content they're creating with
20:38
people. And so it's just yeah, it's just
20:40
it's what could be one simple step that just saves you a lot
20:43
of headaches later. Let's get back to IP.
20:46
This one thing I was curious about talk to us about like
20:48
intellectual property. What what does it really mean?
20:51
You know, if I have a trademark, am I covered?
20:53
If how do I know if I'm covered? You know, if I'm using a certain
20:56
language over and over again? Just I'm curious your thoughts
20:59
on that. Yeah, and an IP is something
21:01
that also if you are a founder, like starting with your with
21:05
your trademark, like if you have the name of your podcast, no,
21:08
like hopefully you have done this already, but not, but you
21:12
should, you should. And yeah, and I can also help
21:16
you getting you in the right direction.
21:17
But I feel like at some point if somebody else trademarks the
21:22
name that you're using and you need to of using it, like that's
21:25
going to be a problem if you're creating your own brand, right.
21:28
So anything related to to trademarks to logos, like
21:34
depending on what's your business, but if there's a logo
21:37
that is very important to you and that you're using like on
21:40
everything, it really depends. But or if you're creating a
21:43
patent that's more technical. Yeah.
21:46
And that might not be the case for many founders.
21:49
But if you are creating a product, yes, you should go
21:53
through the process and it's really not that expensive.
21:56
Like, surprisingly, how? Much is it to get a trademark?
22:00
I feel like with no, no, it's more, but I think including the
22:06
legal like the fees and the legal work, I would say like
22:10
maybe between 500 and 1000. So it's not crazy.
22:15
And if it's something that imagine you're like operating
22:18
under a trademark and you have never registered it and way
22:22
along like in the future somebody, it's like you can't
22:25
use that one. You need to come up with another
22:27
one. When all of your clients know
22:30
your trademark, you are in the market with your trademark.
22:33
Like that would be a big, that would be a problem, a big issue,
22:35
yeah. So what if it was like, I went
22:37
to go trademark Founder Talk podcast, Yeah.
22:39
And then it was like, that's already taken.
22:41
Could I go founder podcast? Could I go the founder circle
22:45
podcast me? Is there other ways to kind of
22:47
get around it or? Yeah, it really depends on on
22:49
the class. Like there are different classes
22:52
and my not myself an IP lawyer, but I know like enough to to say
22:57
this then yeah, there are different classes.
23:00
So it depends on which class that trademark is being used
23:04
then and you protected like in certain classes only in the
23:08
classes that you're going to use it for.
23:10
But also if you have been using it, I mean you, you have like
23:16
some sort of right, because you have been using that trademark,
23:20
right. So you need to show that you.
23:22
Use it. It's like I've been this last
23:23
like 2-3 years. It's like, do they really have a
23:25
right to? Have a You see a lot of
23:27
litigation around these that's so messed up.
23:29
Yeah, I don't think. That should be a thing.
23:31
I think anyone should be. Do you use whatever they want?
23:33
Yeah. But at the same time, I mean, if
23:35
you have a trademark, yeah, you need to show that you're using
23:38
it, right. So it can get complicated.
23:41
Yeah, OK. I was just thinking about the
23:45
podcast. That makes sense cuz I, yeah, I
23:47
don't have anything like that set up.
23:48
I probably should. Yeah, I can.
23:50
It makes. Sense to do now let me.
23:51
Ask you this the right person? Yes.
23:53
Let me ask you this, if I'm doing the podcast and let's just
23:57
say it's highly monetized, you know, and I'm making money from
24:01
it, I've sponsors or making money off ad revenue, that type
24:04
of stuff. In the future, would it be
24:06
better to do an LLC? Like when do you do an LLC
24:09
versus, you know, a trademark or the trademark like a specific
24:12
because in my mind it trademarks like a specific entity in the
24:15
business where the LLC is the business.
24:17
But if ILLCD founder talk podcast, would that be what I
24:21
need to still do a trademark or no?
24:22
It's really not not related to that.
24:25
Like you should make the decision about whether you
24:28
incorporate an LLC or a corporation depending on what
24:33
you're thinking. Like if you have partners, if
24:35
you are thinking about potentially one day doing an IPO
24:39
or getting or getting funded by funds or if you want different
24:43
series of like classes of shares.
24:46
So then you would go with a corporation.
24:48
But if you, if you're just yourself, like this is my baby.
24:52
Exactly podcast will just be me I think forever.
24:54
This is regardless if I sell their businesses or whatever I
24:57
do or exits or whatever, this will be my.
25:00
Yeah. So then I think it would make
25:01
sense to do an LLC rather than a corporation because you wouldn't
25:05
need it for what you're doing and it's going to be easier,
25:08
easier to manage, cheaper to administer.
25:11
But at the same time, like the the trademark question is
25:16
completely different. Like you can still do an LLC and
25:19
have the LLC be the owner of the trademark or you can be the as
25:22
an individual owner of the trademark.
25:24
Like it's not really related to the type of entity you have.
25:28
Is there anything else on like purchases of businesses, merger
25:32
acquisitions, anything else that people need to think about right
25:34
now? Because a lot of founders
25:35
listening and we've had a lot of founders on the show, they're
25:38
going to sell their business at some point and they're they're
25:40
maybe close to it. They may be five years out, but
25:42
that vision is kind of there. Yeah.
25:45
And I think that even if they started, let's say some of them
25:48
started small, like I'm gonna do an LLC and because I'm like only
25:52
myself. And then in the future, they
25:54
want to grow it into like there's interest for somebody to
25:57
buy them and they, they should like convert the LLC into a
26:02
corporation. That's something you can do.
26:05
Like you can change it. It's, I mean, it's a process,
26:10
but it's, it's not that crazy. And then it would be better to,
26:16
it depends. Because if you want to sell only
26:18
a portion of the business or doing an ideal like it would be
26:23
better to have shares than being an LLC It's easier, it's
26:27
cleaner. You have many other ways in
26:29
which you can give equity. So I think it depends on the
26:35
case, but probably if you are selling and selling like in not
26:42
a straightforward way, like I'm just going to sell the entity
26:44
and that's it. Or you want If you want to sell
26:46
the assets or sell some of the shares, it would be better to
26:50
have a corporation. Yeah, we did.
26:53
I think this is pretty common. Maybe a couple years ago moved
26:56
from an LLC, Still an LLC technically, but taxed as an S
26:59
Corp. I think it's a common thing
27:01
right? You get a.
27:02
Pretty good. Tax break there.
27:03
I was talking to one business that was he was pretty seasoned
27:06
and didn't have that set up. And I was thinking, I think
27:08
you're just paying like a crazy amount of taxes.
27:10
You shouldn't be right. I mean.
27:11
Yeah. And that's another question that
27:14
it's like an accounting question.
27:16
But definitely I have seen people that are thinking like I
27:20
want that C Corp. A lot of a lot of founders I've
27:23
heard like that they talk about AC Corp and I'm like, but you
27:27
want AC Corp from the accounting perspective, like taxed as AC
27:30
Corp because you can have an LLC taxed as AC Corp.
27:34
Now, what would be the benefit of their?
27:36
The benefit is that you're not a partnership.
27:39
So it's what if you hear somebody saying like it's a
27:42
blocker, so it's not a partnership and it's not taxed
27:45
as a pass through. So then it would be taxed at the
27:48
entity level as a corporation, but it can be an LLC and taxed
27:52
as a corporation. So is there?
27:54
Sorry, is there a is there a savings between if I'm an LLC
27:57
getting taxed as an S Corp versus LLC getting taxed as AC
28:00
Corp? I mean, I'm not an accountant,
28:03
but I know, yes, the C Corp is different than an S Corp and it
28:06
depends on what your business is.
28:09
And I mean, an accountant can tell you like what's the the
28:12
best strategy for your business. But what I'm getting at is that
28:17
even you can like have an LLC and be AC Corp at the same time
28:22
from a tax perspective, right? So a lot of people are like, no,
28:24
I need to be AAC Corp and I'm like, OK, but you don't need to
28:27
be a corporation to be AC Corp. It depends.
28:30
It's. Confusing.
28:31
No, it's confusing. It's confusing.
28:33
Yeah, I remember years ago. It's probably like four or five
28:35
years ago or maybe it was about 3.
28:38
Had it been two or three years ago, it was like right when I
28:39
made the switch to LLC being taxes and S Corp.
28:43
And then I'd fill out a form from like a bigger company that
28:45
were they hired me and I remember putting on there that I
28:48
was an S Corp because I thought like in my mind I was like,
28:51
yeah, I'm an S Corp. And then he's like, you're an
28:53
LLC. I just looked it up and exactly
28:54
let me check on this. And then I was like, yeah, I am
28:56
an LLC. I'm just taxed as an S.
28:58
Corp, Exactly. And that's when a lot of people
29:01
get confused because it is confusing.
29:03
Yeah. So, yeah, an accountant can tell
29:05
you what, depending on where you are at your business, what type
29:08
of operations you're having, it might be beneficial to operate
29:11
as an S Corp or to operate as AC Corp.
29:13
Like, it really depends on what you're trying to achieve.
29:16
What are the maybe top two reasons people come to you?
29:18
Business owners come to you. They come to me either because
29:22
they want to start like from scratch, they want to move their
29:25
business. I have a lot of clients who are
29:28
international who want to move to the US or start operating in
29:32
the US, So that's one reason they want to.
29:35
Why? Because they want more expenses.
29:36
They want to pay more taxes. Or let's say they want to yeah,
29:40
start having some presents or doing.
29:42
Business in the US. Like incorporating here.
29:44
So that's one, one side or people that are already
29:47
incorporated and well, I would say three sides, that's the
29:51
first one. The second one, people who are
29:54
growing, they don't have a legal department internally because
29:58
they still don't have the budget to have a legal department, but
30:01
they have legal needs like every day.
30:04
So a. Lot of listening to how now have
30:06
that exactly. Yeah.
30:08
And and they, they might not want to pay somebody from big
30:11
Law who is going to like charge thousands of dollars on their
30:15
hourly rates. So they come to me because as
30:19
I'm remotely like I'm a small law firm, I, I work from home,
30:25
so I don't need to pay the overhead.
30:27
And then I can offer a rate that is like a cost effective for
30:31
them. So they can like hire me as if I
30:35
was part of their team. I help them with day-to-day,
30:37
like on hourly basis or on a flat fee.
30:40
Like we can decide the structure, but that type of
30:44
client is very common. Like that I would be able to
30:48
help them. And then the last one, people
30:51
who need help on a project like let's say they are thinking
30:54
about an ideal or they are thinking about like entering
30:58
into a big contract where they need help negotiating, reviewing
31:02
the terms. I can do it on on case by case.
31:07
I sometimes I think about, I love living here.
31:10
I love the United States of America.
31:11
I don't think I'd ever like live permanently somewhere else, but
31:14
definitely travel to places. But I sometimes think about,
31:16
man, if you took the, the income that you make here, because the
31:19
cost of living is so much higher here, obviously.
31:21
And then you go to a different country, you know, whether
31:24
that's like Philippines or Argentina or somewhere, you
31:26
know, whoever knows whatever else is out there in terms of
31:29
lower cost of living, You could just live like a king or a
31:31
queen. I mean, you would just be like,
31:34
it would be unbelievable. Yeah.
31:37
And you see a lot of people retiring in other places.
31:40
Exactly. Like I've heard a lot of people
31:41
retiring in Portugal or I'm Mexican, OK?
31:44
And I go back to Mexico often. Yeah.
31:47
And you see like in certain places, a lot of American who
31:51
retire in Mexico because of that, like the the cost of
31:54
living is way cheaper. Where in Mexico are you from?
31:57
I'm from Mexico City. Mexico City, Wow.
31:59
OK. What's it like there in terms of
32:01
cost of living? Is this, is it pretty if you
32:02
bring $100 over there? Am I getting a lot?
32:05
It is getting expensive. It's not as expensive as here.
32:08
I mean, I feel like Chicago is getting very expensive, but
32:11
there I would say maybe like at 70%, I would say 7080 of like
32:21
how expensive here it is. Like I would say something like
32:24
that, but it is getting expensive.
32:26
It depends on what you're talking about.
32:28
I'm thinking about like restaurants in supermarket is
32:33
cheaper. But then you do have like a lot
32:35
of services that are cheaper than way cheaper than here.
32:39
Yeah. Like if you need any type of
32:42
technical like a plumber or they are, it's a lot cheaper to get
32:49
it there than to get it here. So it really depends, Yeah.
32:51
What is the entrepreneurial scene like in Mexico?
32:54
I'm curious. I think.
32:55
How is it different than American culture and
32:58
entrepreneurial? Because we have a very high
32:59
entrepreneurial spirit here, you know.
33:01
Yeah. And that's interesting because I
33:04
feel like a lot of times I help kind of like either clients in
33:09
the US understand the landscape in Mexico or other Latin
33:13
countries. Yeah, or the other way around.
33:16
And I would say the bureaucracy is like way heavier in Mexico.
33:25
So even incorporating an entity now you need to go through like
33:29
several steps that take time. So here you can incorporate an
33:33
entity in like in a week. So it's it's very fast.
33:37
So I feel like in that sense there is very bureaucratic.
33:42
I would say many things are cheaper because like hiring
33:47
people is less expensive than here.
33:50
So it depends on on what you want to do.
33:53
I would say costly. There is cheaper, but here you
33:58
might find like some things are easier.
34:01
You mentioned hiring. We've always typically gone when
34:04
we do offshore work or you know, we're looking for people, you
34:07
know, not in the United States for talent, whether it's video
34:09
editing, podcast management, whatever it might be.
34:12
We've gone to the Philippines, but I've heard a lot about Latin
34:15
America in terms of that scene and really exploding with like
34:18
very talented people and being cost effective.
34:22
I think they're caught more costly than Philippines and
34:24
other areas but still cost effective but very talented and
34:28
same time zones, which I think is really attractive because if
34:32
you're working with somebody on the other side of the world, you
34:34
know you can make it work depending on the role.
34:36
But it is tricky for meetings and things like that because
34:38
you're just like on complete ends of the spectrum sometimes.
34:41
Yeah, it can get challenging. And I, I totally agree.
34:45
There's a lot of talent, people that are like highly educated
34:49
that have like that they know what they're doing.
34:53
So I think it's, it's great in that sense.
34:58
If you find a way, like if you want to operate there or have
35:01
people in there or have some type of hybrid, I think you can.
35:06
You can find like a lot of talent in Latin America.
35:10
You. I thought I heard.
35:11
Would you say you don't like the charging per hour model?
35:17
Is that right? No, I do charge per hour often
35:20
times, but I'm flexible. I'm open to other ways.
35:24
I think that the charging per hour model works very well for
35:28
certain things and especially when you don't know like it
35:31
depends not because maybe you are reviewing a contract then
35:35
can take many hours or maybe it can be very, very quick.
35:38
So it's hard to to quote. But yeah, I do charge per hour
35:43
for some things. For others, I have packages like
35:46
for incorporating entities, I have set packages and it's easy.
35:50
But then I do have some clients who prefer to work under a flat
35:54
fee or a package of hours. Let's say like I give you 10
35:58
hours a month at a discounted rate and then and like if you
36:02
didn't use them all, we roll them into the next month.
36:05
So things like that. I'm pretty flexible and I think
36:08
that's the one of the benefits of being a small firm is that I
36:12
can like be flexible and. So back to the AI.
36:18
Can AI be our new lawyer or do you think if you look, if you
36:22
look three years, five years down the line, is it true what
36:27
people say that hey, I was taking lawyers jobs and I don't
36:30
buy it, but I'm curious. Some people say that then.
36:32
I've heard it, like a lot. I think it's changing the way in
36:37
which lawyers work. I see it as a tool.
36:41
I don't think they wouldn't. People wouldn't hire me because
36:45
they have AI. Some might not bring matters my
36:48
way because they already figured it out with AI, and that's fine.
36:51
Yeah, but I feel like the I and I talk to other lawyers and it's
36:56
interesting when I tell them like, don't you feel that
36:58
sometimes you are like this person of trust, that sometimes
37:02
you're kind of like a like a therapist because they come to
37:07
you with their frustrations or with their issues and and
37:10
sometimes you need to hear them guide them.
37:12
So I feel like that human part, that human aspect is not going
37:16
to be replaced by AI. But you know you.
37:19
Think you could have AI conversations and just say talk
37:21
me through this? Yes, maybe, but I don't think
37:25
it's going to be like at the level of the human interaction
37:29
because at this at the same time, when I think about the
37:32
legal services, it's something very personal and people are
37:36
trusting you with their I mean their business, their, their
37:40
money, their like it's. I think there's something
37:44
trustworthy about having somebody that is taking care of
37:46
it that has some accountability, you know, meaning that if your
37:49
contract went sour or bad or something that knowing that you
37:52
took, you're taking care of it versus if I like created some
37:55
contract and it didn't work out. It's like I can't go back to
37:58
ChatGPT or Claude and be like, hey, what happened here?
38:01
I'm. A large language model like.
38:03
Definitely. Or can we fix it like yeah,
38:05
exactly. Yeah, that and yeah.
38:09
And the other thing is that definitely I see like along the
38:13
line, I mean, lawyers would though you say I like, I, I
38:18
can't imagine that happening. Like I feel like you need to use
38:21
it as a tool. Yeah, yeah.
38:24
And and it keeps improving and it's great.
38:27
But I mean, as everything, I think the the trust and the
38:33
human aspect is never going to be removed.
38:36
Yeah, I agree. They say the same thing.
38:38
I mean, every job marketing, it's everything, you know,
38:41
accounting, financial firms, I've heard it, you know, people
38:44
are going to do and there's algorithms out there, there's AI
38:47
that can manage your finances and do split the section, you
38:50
know, second decisions based on where your funds should go,
38:52
based on your specific financial plan.
38:54
So what I hear from financial advisors and firms is they still
38:57
want a human to talk to and to know that they're in safe hands
39:00
and they can bounce things off of a trusted advisor.
39:03
Exactly. And even to negotiate, some
39:05
people talk about like, well, in the future it's going to be an
39:08
agent with an agent negotiating an agreement and lawyers are
39:11
just going to sit and watch. Maybe I just don't see it in my
39:16
future because not in the short term at least, because I feel
39:20
like that negotiation piece often times include the business
39:24
side. It's not only the legal side,
39:26
like most of the times, it's also like people from the
39:29
business side on the call, like trying to negotiate a getting
39:33
into a middle ground. And I don't know, I I still see
39:38
that happening in the human world have.
39:40
You ever done like a mock up? You know, you can talk to Claude
39:44
or tragic petite. You can actually talk to it back
39:45
and forth with voice, you know, and like, yeah, and, you know,
39:48
have an accent or whatever you want to have.
39:50
Have you ever gone back and forth and like, do you ever do
39:52
you go to court a lot like trials?
39:54
No, I don't. I I think the trial.
39:55
No, yeah. I was wondering if like trial if
39:57
I was a lawyer I might like try to go back and forth with AI to
40:00
see how it would be. Yeah, theoretically.
40:03
You would think it would be like a few steps ahead.
40:05
You know like when AI plays us in chess it typically destroys
40:08
us because it knows every micro move it possibly could.
40:12
I I would wonder what it would it would be like going against
40:14
the best lawyer in the world versus the best AI lawyer in the
40:17
world. I would what do you think would
40:19
happen? No, I think the best lawyer.
40:20
Would you think so? I think so because they like
40:24
maybe AI knows like the case that you need to know for the
40:27
right argument, but the charm like the that's.
40:31
A good point. Because in the at the end, when
40:34
you think about litigation, it's also very subjective, especially
40:38
if you, if there's a jury, even more so.
40:40
Great point. I actually had a personal injury
40:42
lawyer. He owns some firm, Josh Figgins
40:45
this episode you guys can watch really good episode.
40:48
And he talked about that getting in front of, you know, your
40:50
ability to kind of win over the jurors being subjective.
40:53
It's yes, you got the facts, the data you need to bring that you
40:56
need to be prepared. It needs to be a legit case.
40:58
But at the end of the day, you got to win over those people
41:00
because they're making the decision if it's, you know,
41:02
traditional court case. Exactly.
41:04
And they might not care that much about like whether you have
41:07
this case that looks very similar.
41:10
It's more about like being convincing, compelling.
41:14
So I don't. Know I heard I heard someone say
41:16
on a podcast clip they were saying they were going to spend
41:20
like $50,000 with a lawyer to drum up some contracts or
41:24
something and then they used Claude or a open AI or something
41:27
to do it for free. And I was thinking that doesn't
41:30
make sense to me. I don't know that doesn't make
41:32
it, it doesn't seem like there would be that big of a price for
41:34
something that you could just do in AII.
41:36
Do think to your point, maybe it does bring down like maybe these
41:39
bigger firms are charging a lot of money that now they're not
41:42
going to be able to. It makes it a little bit more
41:43
competitive now because of the use of AI.
41:46
People are like, well, I can do like 90% of this by myself and
41:48
then I'll run it by my lawyer. You know, I, I see the same
41:51
thing with with my business, by the way, with content and
41:53
strategies and things like that. Like they can make their own
41:56
content strategy in Chachibti or Claude, but is it going to have
42:00
the knowledge, the insights that their particular business and
42:03
what they need to do and what has worked for other companies,
42:06
you know, that are similar to theirs or in their market or
42:08
whatever it is? It's the nuances that you give
42:11
it that make it actually cause the way I work with the same
42:13
thing as you probably is. I work with my AI together.
42:16
Like it's a partnership. It's like, you know, I'm kind of
42:18
the the brains behind it, but then I give it things and I say
42:21
organize this or let's take a different look at this or what
42:24
are top three things that I'm not thinking about here that
42:26
could put us at risk? Or how do I, you know, organize,
42:29
you know, that we have a meeting and it automatically organizes
42:31
it into the most important information that we need to
42:34
follow up on or put into our strategy.
42:36
Those types of things I think are great, but can it be the the
42:39
mainframe end all be all at this point?
42:41
I don't think so. I agree with you and and even
42:44
when I use AI, it makes my work way faster.
42:48
Yeah, totally. Because I, I can get like what
42:51
do I need to think about like in this type of situation and based
42:55
on the law, like what, what clauses do you recommend for
42:59
this type of agreement? So then I think that's great.
43:02
But without like I would say the technical mindset and the same
43:07
for your case or my case, like without what you know how to put
43:11
it together, Like if somebody, I can imagine if somebody who is
43:14
not a lawyer uses this tool, it might not get the same product
43:18
that somebody who knows how to use that information or that
43:21
tool. Yeah.
43:23
And I always think about, you know, OK, I think it's important
43:25
to have that mindset of some people are just running away
43:27
from AI and like, oh, they're so, you know, and I talked to
43:30
founders like this, like, no way, AI can't do that.
43:32
AI is not doing this AI and the reality is like, it's coming for
43:35
everyone to a certain degree. But I think to your point, it's
43:38
like finding a way to work with it, but also finding the unique
43:41
things in your business that AI can't replicate, you know, And
43:45
for us it's like, Hey, it's in person podcast and real human
43:48
conversations and building on relationships, creating a local
43:52
spectacle and that type of stuff.
43:53
Building those types of things cause content for people now
43:55
they can make AI videos and stuff.
43:56
They can do a lot of the stuff that an agency would have
43:58
charged 10 grand a month to do just a few years ago.
44:01
You know, it's like it can post content for you, it can write
44:03
for you, it can create blogs for you.
44:04
It's like that stuff has become the commodity.
44:07
That stuff is like we can do that on the cheap now or build
44:10
an AI agent or AI, anybody can do it.
44:12
Anybody can do. It now whether they can do it
44:14
well. Or not is a different story.
44:15
But the fact is they can they can start to begin that process
44:18
and do some of that. And if the marketing agency
44:20
wasn't graded at it anyways, maybe their outputs the same or
44:22
better. So it's like, what are the
44:24
things now that make us distinct?
44:26
What are the things that are going to create value for our
44:28
customers in the long term? So I think about this type of
44:32
stuff here in person, human connection, Tye content
44:34
marketing, and I also think about how do we embed AI in our
44:37
business so that when a company works with us, we're embedding
44:40
AI in their businesses and processes, whether it be their
44:43
marketing or sales processes that we're bringing.
44:45
We're the AI experts in a lot of ways.
44:46
Now we're bringing new solutions to them saying, hey, you're
44:49
taking an intake call. What if we did this, this and
44:51
this to where it spit back out this and automatically got added
44:53
here and then an AI agent was taught, You know, I think you
44:56
got to think about your business like that.
44:58
You have to think about what are the things that are separating
45:00
us from AI and what are the things that we need to do from
45:03
an AI standpoint, because that's just the the that we live in.
45:06
Yeah. And I love the way you're saying
45:08
it. Like becoming the AI expert in
45:10
your area, in your area, in your area, and that's going to give
45:13
you the unique position. Yes.
45:16
But I also think AI is reframing the way in which we do business
45:20
in many cases. And I think about this like
45:22
about big law firms, Yes, like I and I have talked about this
45:26
with lawyers from big law firms. And yeah, like this is
45:30
challenging the way in which the legal world has been operating
45:35
for many, many years and it's getting very expensive.
45:38
So if you still with AI are still as expensive as you would
45:42
be without it, you might not be in a competitive position.
45:46
So it really depends. Yeah, that's a great point cuz
45:49
where? Does that value creation get
45:50
passed down to the customer? Exactly.
45:52
It's either gotta be more value for the customer or it's gotta
45:55
be less price, less cost. Exactly.
45:57
Cuz if we're going, we're using AI now to do everything, it's
46:00
like, well, from a customer, why do I pay the same amount?
46:02
Yeah, exactly. If I'm getting the same.
46:03
Service and I'm paying the exact same.
46:05
Where is that value passed down to me?
46:06
Yeah. So where do you want to go with
46:08
your business? Is it a lifestyle, you know a
46:10
couple person business, use some AI, use some, you know offshore
46:13
workers or is it something you want to scale up?
46:16
I'm curious, Yes. So like all of you.
46:18
I yes, I started two years ago. I started by myself.
46:23
Then a year ago I've got a partner, then another lawyer and
46:27
another lawyer. Like, I feel like it's, it's
46:29
more like right now we're three, but I see this growing in a way
46:34
where like I can have lawyers who if it makes sense for them
46:38
to be part of this idea and bringing their own clients and
46:42
creating their own portfolios and working with me on a
46:45
referral base fee. I think it's very, it can be a
46:50
very attractive for certain type of lawyers depending on where
46:53
they are in their careers. So I want to keep growing.
46:55
I want to keep like getting more clients.
46:57
And I'm not afraid of like what would happen if I have too much
47:01
that I can't handle because I do have many alliances with other
47:05
law firms. And it depends on like if, if
47:08
they it's for a matter related to Mexico.
47:12
I have like a lot of great partnerships with lawyers in
47:15
Mexico who can help me and, and the cost like keeping as I
47:20
always try to keep like the cost very friendly.
47:23
So then that I can be helpful for my clients.
47:26
So yeah, I want to keep growing. I'm never like, I don't have it
47:30
in my, I don't have it in the way I see my future to have an
47:34
office, to pay secretaries, to have a printer, to have a like,
47:39
I really don't see that way. I work with paralegals if I need
47:44
it, and then I pay them like based on what I need.
47:47
So I kind of like want to see like I have the right structure
47:53
now and I want to build on it without getting far too far in.
47:58
And then thinking like, why did I build something so expensive
48:02
that then I need to charge my clients more out like on the
48:06
hourly rate side. I think that's the future of how
48:08
to grow. A business this year and the
48:11
next five years and 10 years and forever is what you just said
48:14
there is building a nimble business that's highly flexible
48:18
that can adjust on the, you know, on the dime because that's
48:22
what happened with AI coming in with flexible workforce with a
48:25
global economy like you better be able to adjust, you better be
48:29
able to pivot. And I think the reality is we're
48:30
going to see a lot of these big companies, whether it's big law
48:33
firms, big consulting firms, big product companies, software
48:36
companies, a lot of them already are.
48:38
And a lot of them will continue to lay off a lot of people as
48:41
the technology continues to better, to get better and you
48:43
got to be able to pivot. And I think the one skill that
48:45
you could have in this world today as AI and technology
48:49
changes so fast to the point where it's like makes your head
48:53
spin sometimes, the number one thing is your ability to adjust.
48:56
How fast can you say, OK, we need to change directions a
48:59
little bit here, we need to adjust a little bit here.
49:02
And then in certain cases, you need to just, hey, just stay the
49:04
course. We're good.
49:05
Just keep doing what we're doing.
49:06
But I think that is the that is a big competitive advantage
49:08
because yeah, you get, you're going against people that have
49:10
all this overhead, big bloated agencies, firms, you know, they
49:14
got all this overhead and it's like it doesn't translate to
49:17
value for the customer in a lot of cases.
49:19
And that's the risk is like, well, we have to charge a lot
49:22
because we have the the office, the printer, the four people
49:25
doing a job that really AI could do two of them.
49:28
You know, it's like, yeah, yeah. And now it's like it's like, oh,
49:31
we're but we're human experience.
49:32
We like to do that. It's like the customers don't
49:34
care about all of that. They want some level of human
49:37
experience, but a lot of it's just overhead that you're
49:39
passing down to them that they don't even care about Exactly.
49:41
And finding the. Right client.
49:43
Because for me, the right client is the one who doesn't care
49:47
about that. Like who doesn't want to come to
49:49
my office with a about like table tops and like who really
49:53
doesn't care about that? They care about not paying a
49:57
more than what they think they should be paying for a service.
50:00
And, and I know there is a market for like other type of of
50:04
law firms because I know sometimes funds care about a
50:07
name that has been in the market for a long time.
50:10
And I totally understand that. But then that's not the client
50:12
that I'm that I'm looking for. Yeah.
50:15
And the flexibility is amazing because one of the reasons why I
50:18
started this is to have the flexibility.
50:21
And then if I'm lean in my overhead, that that also gives
50:25
me flexibility because if I go to Mexico, I can work from
50:28
Mexico. I just need my laptop and I can
50:31
work from anywhere. Like it's, it's very, very easy
50:35
to transfer it to anywhere where I go.
50:37
Love that. Comment guys below and let us
50:41
know if you're building a business that is highly
50:43
flexible, if you're building a what I would call a modern
50:45
business. Again, it doesn't mean you don't
50:47
have employees. It doesn't mean you don't have
50:48
an office. There's nothing wrong with that.
50:49
Certain businesses, it makes sense, but I think you got to
50:53
be, I think this conversation didn't wake you up a little bit
50:55
on the risk side, on the legal side, on the contract side, but
50:58
also just looking at your business and saying, am I set up
51:01
for the future of what's coming? Because it's not one day, it's
51:05
here, it's at our doorstep and shit's changing fast.
51:08
And you got to be ready for it. Anna, where This is a great
51:10
conversation. I'm so glad you came on.
51:12
Where can people find you, connect with you, learn more
51:15
about what you guys do? Yeah, so I have a website.
51:19
That it's just the Casa nuevalaw.com so that's easy I
51:24
also I'm on LinkedIn so you can find the LinkedIn and yeah like
51:29
there you can see my e-mail and just shoot me an e-mail Cool.
51:33
We can talk. Yeah, we'll link it all up for
51:35
in the description. Too, Thank you again for coming
51:38
on the show. Thank you all for listening and
51:39
being part of this journey, and we'll see you on the next one.
51:42
Thank you.