Latest / Conversations with Dad / Relationships: Family, love and (no) expectations
Transcript
- Mbrownstein3485: Hello Dad. Stanley Brownstein: Hey, how you doing? Mbrownstein3485: ⁓ I apologized off, recording, but I'll say it again. Sorry for keeping you late. know one of the, one of the things that you are consistently really good at is being on time. So I'm sorry for, for keeping you. and I think that popped up for me, ⁓ to, to repeat again, because as we were wrapping up our little pre conversation, one of the things that came up that I thought would be interesting to talk more about are some of the relationships that were really important to you Stanley Brownstein: So first I would ask you, what do you mean by significant? Mbrownstein3485: Well, ⁓ answer that question, then maybe you can answer that question. So I think for me, when I think of significant, I think there's an element of just the amount of time you're able to see them. That doesn't equal significance, but ⁓ is something that happens to a relationship when you just don't have that opportunity to interact, whether it's on the phone or in person. But then I think the other thing that ⁓ think I might be more interested in, is that, depending on your goals and your intentions and your priorities, there are certain people that mirror for you what you want to see and who you want to be. And I think there's like a, almost like more of an attraction to people like that. And then there's people that you start seeing like, wait a minute, this kind of feels like the old me, my old sense of who I was. And then there might be some tension there. So. When I think of significance, I'm thinking more about your relationship to the relationship. Stanley Brownstein: Alright, well, it seems that, I mean, a lot of my friendships seem to have been situational. ⁓ You know, there are friendships that I feel that I valued that I really haven't kept up with, ⁓ you know, based upon my circumstances and their circumstances. ⁓ Mbrownstein3485: Mm-hmm. Stanley Brownstein: I remember... And I would say that ⁓ anybody that I hung out with a lot was in a way a significant friendship, even though I may not have kept up with them. And I do think that's my pattern, where I really don't keep up with, but I don't make an effort to maintain the relationship just based upon talking on the phone, let's say, that type of thing. So if I'm not going to hang out with them, it's just not gonna happen. Mbrownstein3485: Sure. Stanley Brownstein: And I don't really think I hang out much, again, more based upon situational things. So I do remember a friend, well, so friends I hung out with in high school. I really don't see them much at all. One had called me a couple of months ago. So I mean, I haven't. Mbrownstein3485: Okay. Stanley Brownstein: And it felt really nice just to touch base with him. But I mean, I might call him back, I might not type of thing, but I welcomed his call. ⁓ Another friend that I had around the same time. Mbrownstein3485: Sure. Right. Stanley Brownstein: I valued and I touched base with him some, but again, kind of, when friends get married and they have kids, ⁓ time becomes time. And again, situation becomes ⁓ obstacles. ⁓ Both mom and I had a friend that we met when we were at Buffalo who I valued. Mbrownstein3485: Right. Yeah, I think. Stanley Brownstein: as a friend and I felt that he morphed in a way that was no longer attractive to mom and me. Not in any way a bad person, but just kind of full of himself in a way. And not at our expense either, but just, it just didn't click anymore. ⁓ When I was working and I was really busy, a lot of people that I was Mbrownstein3485: Sure. Right. Right. Stanley Brownstein: I became friends with are just people I saw during the day at work. There was one friend who you might've remembered Marcel. I met him at work. I mean, he lives in Brooklyn. We really don't see each other much. I've touched base with him every so often. He's not one to call back. And he's also very much his wife. Mbrownstein3485: Okay. Right. Stanley Brownstein: she became ill, so he's very much taken with that now too, I'm sure. So I don't feel that, know, that when I was with the work, and you know, which overlaps with a lot of what I just said, the people that you relate to there, that's very situational. One thing that I had wondered about is there were people who preceded us in, ⁓ Mbrownstein3485: Okay. Right. you Stanley Brownstein: that organization. And I was always surprised that when they parted from the organization, at one point they were just so close and then afterwards they didn't really relate to each other at all. And now that I'm kind of in that situation, I can see that too. Those types of relationships, so many relationships are situational. It's, you know, yeah. Mbrownstein3485: Sure. Can I ask you a couple of questions based on some of the things you just said? So, something that seems very clear to me is that when you were... hanging out with them, talking with them, whatever context it... Well, it sounds like with anyone, when you were in it, you were in it. It was something that you valued. Whether it continued outside of that context or not, it sounds like you valued it in the moment, and it sounds like looking back on it, you valued it. Is that... Stanley Brownstein: With who? Alright. Yeah, there was one friend that I actually made a decided split from. He was someone who I pretty much grew up with and he was brilliant. Like you probably got the highest score on the SATs in high school. Mbrownstein3485: Okay. Okay. Sure, sure. Stanley Brownstein: But in many ways he was unstable. Mbrownstein3485: Okay. Stanley Brownstein: So at a certain point, just was best to not pursue it anymore. But other than that, you're right. think that most of the friends I had while some memories are fonder than others, ⁓ you know, I... Mbrownstein3485: Okay. Stanley Brownstein: that relation, you know, whether it was found or not is as much my responsibility as theirs. Mbrownstein3485: And you also mentioned that you're not someone to consistently or you're not someone to call or maintain a relationship. forget the exact language you used ⁓ outside of the situation in which you were in. ⁓ And so I was just wondering how, how do you feel about that? Stanley Brownstein: I was thinking about that because they're coming out with all these studies that I was hearing on how close relationships are important for longevity and emotional well-being and that type of thing. So I was thinking about how I feel about that and the whole idea of whether you feel lonely or unsupported, that type of thing. And what was interesting is I was just thinking about... ⁓ When you're young, you don't really value family. You you almost, you your connection to the world or your connection, you know, your security in the world. I mean, there is, of course, there's an unconscious security based upon your relationship to your parents and family. But I mean, you know, what you think. You know, it's almost kind of causes and, ⁓ you know, groups that you should be aligned with, that type of thing. Mbrownstein3485: Sure. Thank Right. Stanley Brownstein: And I was never, you and I, you know, had definitely had that to some degree, but as I've gotten older, I realized that, you know, the real connection to me in terms of feeling a ⁓ supportive group is my family. So even if, you know, and it includes, you know, you kids also, but, you know, in terms of, let's say my brothers. Mbrownstein3485: Sure. Right. Stanley Brownstein: I mean, there are brothers that some I like hanging out with more than others, you know, and it could, but all of them I feel are, are there as my support in a way in my relationship to the world. you know, which is, I think a big part of, you know, of the friendship that is being talked about when they talk about what's needed in order to feel happy, connected, ⁓ that which contributes to longevity and all that kind of jazz. Mbrownstein3485: ⁓ Sure. So you're signaling and reaffirming that relationships matter I guess, and this kind of connects back to something you said a little earlier about situational relate, like the situation that you're in as well. ⁓ What would you say is important to you or some of the things that are important to you in a relationship? One that you value and or, you know, whether it's maintained or not or it looks the same and it changes, but what... Stanley Brownstein: us. Mbrownstein3485: Are there any through lines in terms of like things that you value in relationship? Stanley Brownstein: Yeah, mean, I guess on one hand you want to feel a certain emotional security with the person. You know, don't want to have to feel on guard. You don't want to have to feel that you're being judged by arbitrary things. It's one thing if someone's you're with someone who you're aspiring to and they're judging you on not you as a person, but you're, you know, in a way your proper behavior within that's something else. Mbrownstein3485: Okay. Stanley Brownstein: Like if a teacher is correcting you, that type of thing, that's something else. But if someone is just kind of, I want that emotional security that I'm not going to be judged. ⁓ But then I want it to be, then you want a certain integrity to the person that you're with. ⁓ Even if they have opinions that you disagree with, you want them to... ⁓ Mbrownstein3485: Right. Right. Right. Stanley Brownstein: You don't want it to be personal. want them to, you know, you want to understand where they're coming from. You want to see there's an integrity to it. And you you want the relationship to be... I guess you want to have enough common connections where you can connect, connections connect. You want to be able to relate to them and enjoy the relationship based upon themes that you have in common or experiences you have in common or experiences that you don't have in common but your relationship to them are similar because you kind of come from a different place in the world. Mbrownstein3485: Mm-hmm. Stanley Brownstein: ⁓ And then I guess, and I see this more with family because I don't necessarily depend upon it with people who are not my family, but that they would be there for you or they would do their best to be there for you in a crunch, you know, if you really needed them. Mbrownstein3485: you ⁓ Maybe as like one last subtopic for today, ⁓ be interested in hearing more from you about one of your brothers. can choose one or it could be a combination of ⁓ things that as you're thinking about what matters to you in a relationship, ⁓ what are some things about an individual brother or traits across multiple brothers that reflect that, that kind of show. and exemplify the importance or things about a relationship that matters to you. Stanley Brownstein: Well, I feel with my brothers that, mean, because, so I have three older brothers who are significantly older than me, but I've had, ⁓ at each point, there was a bit of a special connection that was different for each one of them, which creates a... Mbrownstein3485: Mm-hmm. Stanley Brownstein: which creates that shared kind of memory and fondness. so I think with my brother who's only two years younger than me, there seems to be more of a ⁓ mutual connection, know, just a connection maybe just based upon age, based upon how he looked up to me growing up. Mbrownstein3485: Mm-hmm. Stanley Brownstein: ⁓ ⁓ but I do feel while some I would prefer to hang out with more or less, my connection to them is almost least based upon that at this point. It's more based upon just keeping, know, keeping the connection, letting them know that, you know, I love them, you know, as, as brothers might do, you know, not, not in any, ⁓ overly expressive way, but enough with, and feeling the same way, feeling that they're giving me space to be me and I'll be giving them space to be them. I don't know if that answered your question though. Mbrownstein3485: It does. think at some point I'm interested in hearing some specifics too. Stanley Brownstein: Yeah, right. So what's really interesting is like, know, your family can be so dismissive of you. Like you could be like nothing to them. I mean, especially you have brothers five years older than you or six years younger than you. It's kind of like, ⁓ know, ⁓ as parent, you know, you ⁓ kind of pay the, ⁓ you know, kind of are not as sensitive to your children because of just... ⁓ the familiarity and you know, which you would never really tolerate from a friend as much. ⁓ Unless you need you need friends, you know, some people need friends and they just put up with so much just to want to belong, you know, and I I never really felt that, you know, I would I appreciate contact with people, but if it's it's not supportive, it's like I don't need it. But it's it's interesting with family how. There's a very special dynamic and I think. ⁓ Mbrownstein3485: Right. Stanley Brownstein: It's really a shame when you hear about families just not... ⁓ You know, not only are they not communicating with one another, they're doing it with a malice or an indifference where, you I mean, at certain points in my life, I I'd have spoken to my brothers for a year because we weren't calling regularly. But once we connected, it resumed like that. Mbrownstein3485: you ⁓ discussed how may changed over time and how context had something to do with it. There was also something that ⁓ seems to have true for you all along. ⁓ I guess the that comes to mind is like, ⁓ there's something about that matter ⁓ where ⁓ it's it's ⁓ There's not like expectation you're having. ⁓ for something in particular that they're doing for you, than the fact that have an intention ⁓ to love and that ⁓ there for you in way that they can be there for you. Stanley Brownstein: Yeah, mean, and I specifically, I mean, that's kind of been my goal. ⁓ for the last number of years is to keep up my relationship with my brothers to... ⁓ in a way that I don't really expect anything from them. You know, I do have likes and dislikes as I discuss them, I feel that, you know, it's almost kind of like a meta experience, you know, I'm trying to... and I feel that it's mutually beneficial. Mbrownstein3485: Cool. I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure that that process to arrive at that point, this idea, because there is something fundamental and pure about recognizing that people will do well if they can. They will show up only as they are able to and loving them no matter what. And also, I'm sure there are times where... Just like all of us, when there's an expectation that's not being met, that's also frustrating in the heart. Stanley Brownstein: Well, like our first talk, I you know, we talked about me being, you know, at this age, hopefully, you know, gaining some experience and wisdom. And a big part of what I realized from my relationship with my family that, you know, expectations are, you know, it's kind of, it's a poison. Clean and simple. Mbrownstein3485: Maybe that'll be the title of this week's episode. No, probably not. Stanley Brownstein: Ha ha. Mbrownstein3485: ⁓ Cool, well, next week sounds like there could be some opportunities to talk more about how you arrived at that conclusion. But also I think it'll be interesting just to hear more about the ways in which your relationship has unfolded with certain people when you didn't necessarily have that understanding and just like the ways in which that those relationships evolved and. and as a way to help understand not only this particular conclusion, but also just be cool to understand more about how my dad has interacted with people in the world. Stanley Brownstein: ⁓ so it's not just about getting some dirt, huh? Mbrownstein3485: Well, I don't think it's dirt if it's coming from you. If it's coming from someone else about you, then it's dirt. I don't know. ⁓ All right, dad. Well, thank you. Love you very much. Stanley Brownstein: Alright, that's... Alright. Love you too.