Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / What is Sustainable Investing? - Clemence Chatelin

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What is Sustainable Investing? - Clemence Chatelin · Financial Planner Life Podcast

0:04
SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: Hello everyone, it's Elena back in the hot seat this week for the Financial Planner Live podcast.
0:43
SPEAKER_02: And this week I am joined by the amazing Clement Chatelian from Paradigm Norton, who is a financial planner and the head of sustainable investing.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: In this podcast, we do a sustainable investing crash course.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: What is it?
0:55
SPEAKER_02: What are its positive impacts?
0:57
SPEAKER_02: And we discuss how it is the future.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: We also discuss the importance of graduate schemes, mentorships, and what it's like being a female within the industry.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: Hello everyone, it's Elena here back for the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: And this is so exciting because it's my first face-to-face podcast.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: And I'm here today with Clemence Chapellian.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: And how are you today?
1:19
SPEAKER_02: I'm really great.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm super excited we can do this face-to-face.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: It's like normal life.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: Is it?
1:24
SPEAKER_02: Are we actually getting towards normality now?
1:27
SPEAKER_02: You wouldn't believe it, would you, after the year we've had.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited because next week I'm getting my first vaccine calls.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: Because you know, I'm I'm 28, so I had to wait.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm really looking forward to that.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
1:38
SPEAKER_02: Normality is creeping, creeping up on us.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, thanks so much for coming into the office today and meeting with me in Bristol.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: So start off by introducing us, telling us a little bit about yourself.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: As I said, you're the head of sustainable investing.
1:50
SPEAKER_02: So tell us a little bit about what you do.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: So I'm uh the head of sustainable investing at Paradigm Norton.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm also a senior financial planner, so I still see clients, I'll still do write reports and all of that jazz.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, and my main uh job is to take care of my client book.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: I also do some part planning for another client manager that is my supervisor who you know taught me lots of things.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I also develop and research any sustainable investments for Paradigm Norton.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: So um I look at ESG, I look at um, you know, more impact investing, but I also look at um how can you have sustainable investing in the EIS and sort of private equity space, VCTs, and all of that.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: Um although somebody else that Paradigm Norton looks at whether we can actually invest in it or whether I'm just getting way too excited about it.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, that's the type of thing I do at Paradigm Norton.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: And how did you get into financial planning?
2:43
SPEAKER_02: What was your journey?
2:44
SPEAKER_02: How did you get to where you are today?
2:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, so where do you want me to start this?
2:49
SPEAKER_02: Shall we start?
2:49
SPEAKER_02: Let's start at uni because I know you you came to Paradigm Norton through a graduate scheme, didn't you?
2:55
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's start university.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: So, okay, so my last year of university was a master's degree at University of Bristol.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I got really excited about working in finance in my undergraduate, but so that's why I studied finance.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: And when I was looking for a job at the time at Bristol University, um, the business and finance fair was very much consulting or trading or investment banking, and none of these things are things I got excited about.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: Like I remember one company had no women employed, and so I thought, well, I'm not, you know, like a super analytical person.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: Maybe trading is not a thing I should be doing, and it's all men and it's trading oil.
3:36
unknown: No, no, no.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Then there was consulting, and um, it I had applied to internships and never really got through.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: And so I thought maybe I just don't fit their mold.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, they're looking for a type person, I'm not that person.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: Investment banking, I didn't, I was not interested by that at all.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: And so I looked on the job board at the university, and um part of Norton was advertising credit scheme.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: And the great thing they were advertising is that you have this client element of working with real people, affecting real lives, but you also have a technical aspect.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, you have to know about so many things as a financial planner.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: So that sounded perfect to me.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: And it was a grad scheme, it was five years, so you have really good experience building within five years.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and and the firm itself, you know, when you look at going to firms and when you go to consulting other places, everybody's like Oxbridge or Durham or all these universities, and and and Bristol is great, and Sawass Orange is also great, but you sort of get the vibe of who they're looking for.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: Rather than at Part of Northern, you had people from Southampton University, um, University of West England, um, University of Bristol, University of you know, loads.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: And so I thought they seem to be quite open about you as a person rather than this place you studied in.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: That was also really important to me.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's how I ended up with Pride of Northern.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: And I I think we, you know, I speak to so many people, especially like at graduate level, that start finding out about financial planning, you know, it as you said, it ticks a lot off the boxes.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: You've got that technical aspect, that's still client servicing aspect where you get to speak to people and actually add value to their lives.
5:02
SPEAKER_02: But graduate schemes aren't actually as pop, like as come about that often as you you might think.
5:09
SPEAKER_02: Do you think that probably more firms could optimize out of getting hot talent out of university and bringing them through through graduate schemes?
5:15
SPEAKER_01: I totally think that.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's something that next-gen planners have really tried to help with.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, with next-gen planners, you now have free recruitment events that are taking place with partnerships with universities.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: You have the graduate scheme, uh, the training contract, which yes, comes to a cost, but basically all the exam and development stuff is totally taken care of by Adam Owen and his team.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so really it's it's like you could outs you can outsource this to a pretty cost-efficient price.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I think more businesses who want to um to who don't want to sell the businesses really to somebody else or maybe to a younger person eventually.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: I think graduate schemes are such a great way to do that.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: Because as a young person, you think I need to get a job, but you don't really know where to start.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: As a graduate scheme, you know this is what I gotta learn, this is what and then you and then once you have your confidence built up and so on, like I'm not considered graduate, even though I haven't been there five years, but um, somebody else, we have other people in the business who might still be a graduate uh uh after five years because they feel, right, I just took my development a bit slower.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: And that's that's fine, you know.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: I think it's it gives more confidence to to the person that the job they're entering to is actually tailored to their skills and their backgrounds rather than going to this job, and then you're like, oh, okay, um, what do I gotta learn?
6:34
SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, yeah.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: So I guess a graduate scheme, I I never did one when I came out of uni, I guess, and yours will be very specific to your case in Paradigm Norton, but what's it entail?
6:43
SPEAKER_02: Do you get all the exam support, all the development, all of the things like that?
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so Paradigm Norton really values education.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: So um, so exams, you know, if you need um wizard learning or a CII thing or that thing to pass exams, they will help you with, you know, a lot of things for that.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, so they want you to be chartered.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I was currently reviewing what I should do next, and I don't have all the qualifications to be chartered.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: And um an RCO was like, you should be a certified venture planner.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: That's a level seven qualification, pay for it.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: And um that that's what's expected.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, you get support with everything, you get to be in a team, your supervisor should be there to help you, you know, develop as a planner.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you also have access to you know other graduates in the firm.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: And if you feel, you know, I I need more support with this or more coaching with that, then we have a great people team and you can say, look, I don't think your supervisor is very good with helping you with this area.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, do you think there's somebody in the business who could help me?
7:38
SPEAKER_01: And and yeah, and then you just get, you know, get some time with somebody who can help you on this particular issue.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: So it you get a lot of support um if you if you're really keen to develop your career.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think as well, keen to develop your career is such a big thing, especially when you look at like the age profiles of financial planning and you know, the industry as a whole is known for having older age profiles.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: I personally think graduate schemes are an excellent way to get people into firms that are really, really passionate about financial planning, really passionate about building a great career in the industry, and you can support them and tailor them to your firm's need, but you know, provide them with all that support and development to make them, you know, an asset, an asset to the industry, just like you are.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: And you know, there is, there's I was just reading an article today which was which was kind of, you know, it was there was a controversy about it on NMA because some nasty comments were left off and whatever.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: But the the article was like, you know, 17% of advisors are female.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: That's that's really little.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: That's that means most of the advice out there are male, and this is your chance as a man to um to to mentor a woman.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and and that is such a huge opportunity for you to be like, hey, look, I can mentor women, I can pass all that knowledge to somebody who is actually really keen to get into this because we need more women.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: Doesn't mean you can't do that with with men.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: You mean you can mentor men equally, but that is such a great way to, you know, to work towards more gender equity and equality in the in in the in the industry.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because we touched on this when we spoke previously.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: So obviously you came through through a grad scheme, but you had a really good mentor, didn't you?
9:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: Um I was I'm incredibly lucky.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: I think everywhere in the industry they say get a mentor is the most important thing you can do.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: And I have a mentor at work, and I still have people in industry telling me, get a mentor outside of work, because that's going to give you a next level type of you know, mentoring and and and thought-provoking thing.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: And and yeah, mentoring is so important, and I think so many, so many opportunities are missed because people don't realise they could be a really great mentor to someone.
9:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you know, it all ties in together.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: And do you think having that mentor, did it allow you?
9:38
SPEAKER_02: And we, as you just said then, being a male and being able to pass that all that knowledge and all that on to a female is so powerful, especially at the moment while the industry keeps evolving, because 17% of advisors being female is ridiculously low when you think that 50% of the population is female, it's such a disparity.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: Do you think that mentorship allowed you to sort of cement your place in the firm as a woman or helped you being a woman in the industry?
10:04
SPEAKER_01: I think I was particularly lucky because um, and he won't mind me say that, but um, when people ask me, oh, you know, the gender and the industry and so on, and I'm like, I can't really talk to you that bit about this a lot because if I ask my supervisor, he's like, I'm a hardcore feminist, I have two daughters.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: Like I was a feminist and then I got two girls, and I was like, the hell.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you know, when I came to the team, it was like when you write a letter to a client, it's not dear Mr.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: and Mrs.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: It's alphabetical.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: So if it's dear Catherine and Paul, it's dear Catherine and Paul, it's not Paul and Catherine.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: It's alphabetical.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's things like that.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Or in the report, sometimes you might say, oh, so um Mr.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: or in so-and-so at this law firm and uh Mrs.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: uh currently does not work.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, she's rearing two children, she's currently not in the remunerated position.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Because these are those subtle things which actually still make the person feel valued.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: You are not in a remunerated position, but you have two bloody toddlers.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: You are running around, you're holding your household together because your husband works 18 hours a day.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a lot of work.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: And so uh you're you're the rock of this marriage working because you've got actually more time to invest in the relationship.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's these little things.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: And because of that, I think I became, you know, me being a woman was never an issue in the firm.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the firm is not a the people there are never um, I don't think anyone in there is very much like, oh my god, there's a woman therefore I'm gonna behave weirdly.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: So I I was extremely lucky, but I know loads of women aren't as lucky as I'm yeah, and you just touched on as well, like when you looked at like investment banking, I don't know whether it was specifically investment banking, but you looked at how the lack of women in that profession and that immediately turned you off a little bit.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: Do you think, you know, to get more women within financial planning, we've got to have people like yourself, you know, showing that women can do it and encouraging them.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: I think there are two things to that.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: There is definitely encouraging women to come into the profession.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: There's loads of, you know, there are places like NextGen where you can be safe.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: This is a safe space.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: You have great, if you there's anything at the work, you know, oh my god, I'm in a firm where this is, you know, gender diversity or diversity is not valued.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: You can get help to then go, like, look, maybe I need to be somewhere else.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, but the other thing is we have so many great women in the industry, like Ruth Sturkey and um Anna Sofa.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: But like I'm talking about the generation before me who have pushed all these doors open for my generation and the generations to come.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of women also have to do their part in actually walking through these open doors.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, the worst thing that's gonna happen is somebody might insult you and be really mean.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: But that is really the worst that's gonna happen.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, then you can just be like, look, I don't need to deal with this, I'm just gonna go work somewhere else.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: There's plenty of jobs to go around this industry.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: We don't have enough advisors or power planners to actually do all the work.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: We know that.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: So, as an employee in this industry, you have compared to other industries, leverage to actually make a nice place to work for yourself.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: So um, so yeah, as I said, two things.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: You have to continue pushing doors open, but as the women have to walk through behind, otherwise, we're not gonna change anything either.
13:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:10
SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, you touched on with the mentorship and you know how much that that helped you.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: There is also an opportunity, I think, for firms to invest in really competent, strong women to pave a path for the future.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: Because as you said, it's about opening doors.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, and I don't know if you agree, but the what all the mentorship and all the time that they invested in yourself is just a merit to sort of how progressive the firm is, and you being in the position you are will then further encourage and inspire more women.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's really funny.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: It's not like funny in the sense that we all the graders we hired are actually women.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: It's not that it was designed itself, it just it just happens to be this way.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think about 50% or more of the people in the business are women.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and it's yeah, it's it just happened this way.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: And it's really great because the culture is uh is is healthy and it's good and you can thrive no matter where you come from.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really important.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Do you have any of I know obviously, as you said, you know, the majority of the graduates that you bought in are women and it's just the way it is.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: Do you think there's a particular reason for that?
14:16
SPEAKER_02: Do they embody maybe a a different skill set, or it's just the the candidate pool that you add in at that time?
14:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm yeah, I'm not sure.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: I think in my take in, um, there were two women and we hired two women.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: Um and then the intake after um there were only men and one woman and we hired her.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: And I think it came down um sometimes to some candidates were just not really great.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: Some people hadn't really didn't on didn't get our culture.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, we've had candidates who, you know, by no fault over their own, thought that our whole, oh, culture is important was just sort of a joke thing, you know, how most businesses embody this.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: And and so they didn't take it seriously.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: And they should have.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, and maybe they didn't because what they experienced in the world is sadly that, you know, it's all for show.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: But at part I'm not it isn't.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you know, things have happened that in the interviews where we saw actually this is not quite the right person to work with.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I will I I'm really keen to actually get a uh a male graduate because I think we I just love to to see somebody uh yeah, like a young man through this as well.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: Um I guess the first graduate that we had more recently, he's not been around for a while.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: He had worked at his dad business and then came into Park Norton as a young person, but um, and set up the graduate scheme because of that.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, I I'm actually quite keen to get more graduate in text and and maybe have a bit of gender balance there as well, because I think it'd be it'd be nice also to see does, you know, can we attract men through this through this profession as well in a in a uh the so we have a gender balanced um firm also you know moving forward because we don't want to have just women either, you know?
16:00
SPEAKER_02: We want to be progressive here.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: You don't want to go over the top.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: And I guess the one good thing also about Paradigm Norton bringing these graduates in is that you've also got not just different gender profiles but different age profiles because you know, we touched on you know 70 17% of advisors are female, but the majority of them are over 50 as well.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: There is also a lack of younger advisors in the industry as well, I feel.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, definitely it's um it's hard for me sometimes to see how bad the issue is because um I'm with next gen a lot, and everybody sort of like, even if there are older people at NextGen, it's not an under-35 club.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: I know it seems like it, but it isn't.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: Um it's they are very progressive in their thinking.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: And so if they are 40 or 40 plus, you you'd I'd never know.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and it's really maybe if you go to certain conferences, you see that the average age is quite you know it's over 50.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, part of nothing, we have people who are, you know, just after university 22, 23.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: We've got like sort of end 20s, mid-30s, mid-40s, 50 plus, 60 plus.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and it's great, all all generations are are represented.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I think that makes for great diversity.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: And and um, you know, the older generation maybe helps us with developing ourselves and we help them with with technology, you know, it's it's it's a balance, it's a balance, and we can all all um provide really great skills and points of use for the business to grow.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I I just hear you've hit the nail on the head there.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: I think having all the different gender profiles, age profiles, ethnicities, all of that, it's all about being a progressive firm, but having all those different viewpoints, all those different experiences, all those different outlooks, and and all combined together.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: So it sounds like Paradigm Norton are very progressive in that sense, which is great to hear.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what we're trying to do over the next 12 months is we're working on diversity a lot more.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: So can we attract people from minority backgrounds to financial planning to work at Paradigm Norton?
17:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, because that's something that actually we don't have many people from these backgrounds, and that's a real that's something that where we're like, okay, it just happened, but um, we've got to do something about it.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: So this is for us, that's the next big step is how can we address diversity?
18:08
SPEAKER_01: And we have also like sessions booked to address our biases, historical biases and all of that, so we can so we can um be a more even more inclusive firm than than we already are.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: Wow, and how this is a very good question because I'm sure audience and potentially business owners, have you had discussions about how you're going to attract sort of ethnic minorities and financial advisors?
18:27
SPEAKER_02: Because I guess the whole thing is once you it's easy to get the idea in your head or or see that there's a disbalance, but how do you address it?
18:35
SPEAKER_02: I guess is the hardest thing.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's the people team.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: We have two amaz well, three amazing women in the people team who um are actually addressing this and and putting you know plans together which they will eventually share with us in more detail.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that we have people actively looking at it.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the solutions are then because I'm not involved, but um yeah, that's that's the No, it's incredible.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: And I personally think, hand on heart, that you know, to be a progressive forward-thinking financial planning firm, which is what all the firms, what the majority of firms want to be right now, you've got to have, you know, all the different gender profiles, age profiles, and different ethnic minorities.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: So I think that Paradigm Norton are looking at that and you know, addressing that in the way that they can, you know, shows that you are a progressive forward-thinking firm.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, on the flip-bat side, I'm sure you've got a very good culture, is so important.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure due to that, you've got a really healthy, happy culture, and I presume a good retention of staff and things like that.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, our turnover is really low.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, we have had people coming and leaving, like every firm.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's um when people ask, oh, you know, how long my supervisor's been there since he was 25.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: So he's been around at the firm for 20 years.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, so most, most have, and and uh as we're employee owned now, I think, I think um, you know, unless it just doesn't work for you or there's like a real reason.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: Most people, I think, when they leave part of Norton that I've as I've understood, is like either they want to do something different or um you know, this is this is not working out as I either think it would.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: It's not like uh it's not like oh, I can't do this job, this is tiring, I hate the firm, and I need to leave.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, no, it's it's it's true.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: We can retain our staff, and and that's that's really great because long-term relationships with clients, you need to have make sure that your your team can have that long-term relationship but keeping them on.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it's very important financial planning.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: This is a great point of then for all those businesses out there that have been looking at it, you know, it's not only gonna help your performance, but it's gonna help your retention of staff and overall as a firm.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: So obviously you're at Paradigm Norton now, and you are the head of sustainable investing.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: And I literally find this so interesting.
20:41
SPEAKER_02: So I when we had our conversation before, I just had not hit the nail on the head on what sustainable investing was.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: So, would you like to sort of explain to our audience what is sustainable investing?
20:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it's a really broad topic.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and most people get this wrong.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, so to invest sustainably, there's different ways you can do this.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, so if you want to uh if you want to invest based on your personal values, uh you'd probably call that ethical investing.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's where you might, you know, that's where the Quakers or or you know church charity types will invest and say, we don't want gambling or alcohol or adult entertainment portfolios, things like that.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: If you're an environmentally uh you know focused person and you're you you value the environment, you might exclude certain things like oil and invest more in you know green companies.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, but that is you know based on your personal values and ethics.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and what's another way to invest this to is to do what we call environmental social governance investing.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: And that's less about your personal values, uh, sometimes not at all about your personal values, and it's more about um looking at ESNG, so environmental social governance risks that companies face and how to mitigate or like manage those risks through.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: You know, over or underweighting companies in a portfolio or excluding companies in a portfolio, but also by engaging with companies about these risks.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: So the most prolific case there was recently was with Shell, who's been uh sued by an NGO.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: I think in short, I don't know about the mechanism of that.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: How did that happen?
22:19
SPEAKER_01: But they had been sued and brought in front of the Dutch court to say you have now a legal responsibility to reduce your carbon emissions and actually speed up your um net zero plans.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: And that has happened through engagement and talks and engagement with a regulator and all of these things.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: Um so there's that.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: There is a different way you can invest for sustainability is by doing impact investing.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: So you actively invest in companies who provide a solution to your problem.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: So it could be a clothes manufacturer who uses um uh or no fabric manufacturer who uses uh completely renewable fabrics um and to to you know to you know flood the fast fashion supply chain with fabrics that won't pollute the environment.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: Um and you can also help social enterprises through give by giving them loans through a scheme that's called uh social investment tax relief in the UK.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: So there's different ways you can do that, um, all have pros and cons.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, that's and so we we offer you know various solutions for our clients, and and that's that's what sustainable investing, you know, wow overall is.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: There's different ways to do it.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, there's that that that that's that's so broad, it sounds so exciting.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: Could you give us like an example of one like scenario?
23:33
SPEAKER_02: I know when we spoke previously, we talked about fabrics, like one scenario or like a company or something that you might possibly invest in, and how like it might have a beneficial impact.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Yes, so I think one of my favorite companies out there is uh lensing.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh, they're an Austrian company, so yay, something from Europe.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes you learn about US companies or somewhere in the Middle East or or China or whatever, and you're like, no, no, this is this is a company from the Europe so close to us.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh, they're Austrian, um, and they uh use wood tree pulp and also um cotton scraps to make uh fabric.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: And the wood tree pulp, the the whole cycle is completely waste-free.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: Um so they they waste nothing.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: And obviously, they can then use um you know renewable energy to power all this.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: So again, the carbon footprint is super low.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and they have they have um indeed factories outside of Austria, like in in you know, in Southeast Asia where where fashion is.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: Um but they are they are very good with their supply chains and like you know, what how much of the workers paid, how are things working there.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: Can they also provide um services that aren't in the region because you know the region the infrastructure might not be as good.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you can find that you know, like all the cool brands that are like all birds, the tree runners are made with tensile.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's loads of garments that are made with tensile nowadays, uh, or modal, whatever you want to call it.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, talking about women, period underwear is made from that as well.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, that's amazing.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: You can have a completely environmentally friendly period now.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Um and um so there's it and I and I love I love that because fashion is so is everywhere, like fabrics, and and we use a lot of oil sometimes in fashion.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: And so that that's one of the companies which I absolutely love because of because it's such a simple thing.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and it's amazing.
25:21
SPEAKER_02: So essentially, you know, the the bottom line of it is the people that can invest in your sustainable invest in, they're making a positive impact through their investment.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so some of the so the the way we approach uh investing sustainably, we've got two offerings, but the one where companies like that would feature is our impact offering, where we have part of it is in funds that have specific companies that provide this solution um type, you know, view.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: And we have also uh invested in in broad market funds, which might hold companies you don't like, but we are confident that the asset managers there are um, you know, sort of top of the game when it comes to engaging with companies.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: Because in sustainable investing, people go like, oh, I don't want to invest in all these things.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, well, it has loads of implications.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: A, you can be less diversified, so it's more risky, it could be more costly.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: And also, if you don't hold uh shares, or if the asset manager holds less and less shares in a certain company that's being really terrible, they can't engage.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: You don't have a seat at the table to actually bring about change.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: And I know that at the moment, um, engaging, engagement with companies seems a bit like there's not much transparency around it, it's not very structured the way it's reported on.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: But there's loads of great tech coming actually to get more people involved in it directly and democratize uh annual general meetings at companies.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: So you can actually um you know participate.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: And if you as an investor, you're like, I really want to participate in this.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: There's a really great charity called Share Action.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: They rate fund marches based on how good they engage with companies and their processes and everything, and they recruit um AGM activists every year.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: So you can um they give you training and everything, and you then go to an annual general meeting at the companies, sometimes you know, in person before COVID, um, to like BP or you know, like really big names.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: You go there and um you I you can ask a question.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, and actually, there are they have really great case studies where an activist uh went, asked a question about um something about the environment, um, like some sort of uh it was like I think about electric cars or something.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: And um the head of sustainability happened to be in that AGM meeting and took that person aside.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I really liked your idea.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Let's um let's let's have a meeting and I just want to hear more about it.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: And actually the company made a huge change because of that, because he just asked a simple question.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: So there is so many ways you can get involved as well as personally, if you feel like, you know, oh, massive managers, I know they do something, but I want to be involved.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: Share action is like one of the coolest charities to be part of if you want to, if you want to be really active and make an incredible impact.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, wow, yeah.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: So it sounds like if you want to turn your investments into something where you can really have an impact, sort of sustainable investing is the way to do it.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: And you touched on a couple of things there in regards to sort of diversify and and things like that.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: How do you go about sustainable investing?
28:15
SPEAKER_02: Do a lot of people come to you looking to sustainably invest?
28:17
SPEAKER_02: Do you offer it in all sorts an option in all the portfolios and things like that?
28:22
SPEAKER_02: Or is there an increased demand for sustainable investing?
28:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we always had clients who were asking us for these things, but there were clearly like a minority of clients.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, but they are probably also a bit the fire, you know, the fuel that that that fueled the fire to actually really get started with this.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, but we now found ourselves in a position where we actually tell our clients about it.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: Um so we talk to our clients about it and say, hey, look, you know how we've been investing the past 15 years.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's all good and well.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, we think that um to, you know, we have now the availability to provide to you an investment strategy that is just as diversified, just as low cost, um, and that is more responsible.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: So um, why wouldn't you want to do it?
29:05
SPEAKER_01: Are people receptive to it?
29:06
SPEAKER_02: Because I'm sure lots of people also the the word, especially if you're really in it to earn as you know, financial planning, you want to get as much money out of your investment as possible.
29:15
SPEAKER_02: The word sustainable, I guess, you sometimes can you push you a bit back.
29:19
SPEAKER_02: You think, oh, am I gonna make that much money from it as such?
29:22
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, are people receptive to the idea of it?
29:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes, but yeah, yes, they they are.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, so far I don't think I've met many clients saying, like, um, oh no, I don't want to do that.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: I think there's more and more um people see more and more that, you know, if you are in well-run companies, if you are in in they they are more resilient, especially, you know, we saw in COVID, during COVID, um, the better-run companies that did better.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's only one example and only a very short period of period of time, but that sort of started changing the mindset.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and also it's, I think um, the way we've constructed it is that you were not going to exclude loads of things.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: There are some exclusions based on UN type of conventions.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: So they're like generally, you know, internation agreed, we haven't made any bias judgments.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, and anything else that the fund managers might have excluded are based on you know asking big institutional clients.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: And these are you know large pension funds, and they have usually relatively light-touched exclusions.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: They exclude also tobacco and you know, thermal coal is like the latest exclusion.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, not everyone excludes oil or pharmaceuticals altogether, um, especially with because again, like exclusions can be so two-edged.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: Like people say, Oh, I don't want to be in pharmaceuticals, because look at the opioid crisis in in the US and and how they, you know, pharmaceutical companies are taking advantage of the system in the US and so on.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: But they provide us with a vaccine and they provide you know really great solutions for for for healthcare too.
30:49
SPEAKER_01: So it's you have to, you know, it's not uh it's not a black and white area.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: You have sometimes to make judgment calls, and sometimes you just have to say to say, look, it's not perfect, but it's a journey, and we can try to make incremental improvements over time, and you know, as new things come to the market, as new new things become available, we'll we'll look at them and we'll try to make sure that it's always the best option that our clients can have.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: So, as you said, then you pretty much offer all your clients and do you some sort of sustainable investing option.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, we do.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: And why do you think that's important as a firm?
31:21
SPEAKER_02: Is it the the the ethical side of it?
31:23
SPEAKER_02: Or is it just what what you've decided to do to be more progressive and sort of holistic moving forward?
31:28
SPEAKER_02: Um so I think there's several things.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: Um we we had a big uh sort of arm off uh in advising for philanthropy, so advising clients to give money away because beforehand, right, you would grow your wealth, and then at some point you'd be like, oh, I'm gonna do all this good stuff with it.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: Um and we then started looking more and more at um, you know, can you actually just invest the money in a good place in the in the first place?
31:52
SPEAKER_01: And um it's also we are we're a benefit corporation, a B Corp.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: And so we are assessed every three years on how sustainable we are.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: And um, and also if you look at the you know global risk report from some from places like the World Economic Forum, you see climate change is a huge, huge market risk.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, and if you're a firm that has at valor and fee, so you charge a percentage um of your client's assets, and you your assets are exposed to certain risks like climate change and so on, this could have a real effect on your business.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so we, you know, we we had really great scores everywhere, but really the area we had the least well scored is on our investments, because that's the big elephant in the room.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: Um and so we looked at, you know, we have very strong investment beliefs.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: We follow the academic evidence very closely when it comes to investing.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: So we're, I would say, maybe less flexible than some other firms who will just maybe say, oh, I'm just gonna take the CFM and they'll do it for me, and that's fine.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: We we're quite stringent on our criterion.
32:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so we thought, well, we need to make sure that we are part of the solution in some shape or form, because we we know that the investments as they stand, they're not helping anyone.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: So except our clients become richer, but that might be actually a rather you know short-term thing for all we know.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and our clients, they want to, you know, we've they've been told to by environmentalists maybe to drive less, eat less, meat, fly less.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: And that's negative, you know, like don't do this.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: And rather than they're here, it's like a do that.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, this is positive, and all we need to do is switch your investments.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: And yes, it's not gonna save the polar bears.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: It's not that, you know, we're not talking about um all the companies being absolutely perfect and nothing's wrong with it, but it is shifting the tide so that the asset manager gets the signals and companies then have to get the signals.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: Look, people are caring about sustainability in all its shape and forms.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: We need to do something about it.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: So it's about it's about moving capitalism forward to more sustainable in a more sustainable way.
33:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
33:58
SPEAKER_02: And literally just touched on then, changing the narrative in general a bit about sort of, you know, the environment ethical, it is very much like don't do that, don't eat meat, don't fly, go on a plane, walk to work, don't drive, don't, don't, don't.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: Instead of being like, this is all the amazing things that you can do.
34:15
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's is incredible to have yourself in place and have the model within Paradigm North where it's there, like, right, you're obviously in a position where you've got this wealth, you can make a positive impact.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: You can help change the world with your money and be a small part in a massive, better, bigger picture.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: I think that's really empowering.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: It's you there's so many great things you can do.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: And so, um, and so yeah, that's why we decided as a firm that it was the right step forward.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it doesn't cost more, it's virtually the same thing, just better.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: Why not do it?
34:47
SPEAKER_02: Just go do it.
34:49
SPEAKER_02: So, are you saying just go do it, audience out there?
34:52
SPEAKER_02: Clem says do it.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: What would you say sustainable investing is the future?
34:58
SPEAKER_01: No, of course, yeah.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we it's going to become, I think, the absolute norm within five years.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, and loads of asset managers, when asked about sustainability, like, well, we've already we've always looked at it in some way or another.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: Some people will have only looked at the governance part of things.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: So, how well our firms run, you know, is are the is the board independent enough and so on.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, but they might have not taken into account social or environmental issues as much.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, but now as you know, as data becomes better, as reporting becomes better, as we get more standardized reporting, um, I think it will make it much easier for asset managers to look at it on a much more objective point of view.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: And um it will it will just it will just, you know, how you look at company financial statements to assess whether company is healthy and profitable?
35:46
SPEAKER_01: It'll just form part of that.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, you'll have the same pro same, you know, analysis.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: Um and so it yeah, it's going to become completely the norm going forward.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: It sounds exciting.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: And obviously, this has become like your little thing, I guess, like your little nugget.
36:03
SPEAKER_02: What what at what point did you be like, that's what I want to do?
36:07
SPEAKER_02: Or that's what really interesting me.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: How because I we work in so much within financial planning in the podcast and working at Recruit UK on the other side, but I don't hear a lot about ethical investing or sustainable investing.
36:18
SPEAKER_02: So when did you hear about it?
36:19
SPEAKER_02: And when did you sort of cling on to that and be like, that's for me?
36:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it started, funny enough, it started at university um where I was supposed to do a um a dissertation and the topic I got allocated to, uh, because it was a bit randomized the way you got allocated your topic.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I've got all sorts of stories about the master's degree.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: Um so you could you could yeah, you could choose like a range of topics, and then out of the five, you got allocated one.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: And if you had really good grades in the first term, you got your your your your chosen topic.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: So I was lucky I got my chosen topic.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Um and mine was active versus passive, the good old divane.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: Um and I thought, and I, you know, I read a lot about it, and I was like, how can I bring a new twist to this?
37:07
SPEAKER_01: Because this is just, I don't want to just rehash the same thing.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, what am I gonna add to the research?
37:12
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, can I look at sort of um SRI or what they were called at the time, or ESG funds, passive, and then look at their active counterpart and see whether, or or you know, like active uh responsible funds and and and active um and not and not in active non-responsible funds and and you know, and and the passive ones as well, and see if there's like performance differentials and all of that.
37:38
SPEAKER_01: Because then that would be a nice twist to pass it.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: Is does sustainability outperform would be the question.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: Um and there was no data.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: I was so I we got this whole idea, and then you're like, I can't do it.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, I could do it, but there that I didn't I only had um there were only like 30 funds in the UK or something I could use, and um, that wouldn't be enough.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: I would have, I would need like thousands of funds to make this statistically significant.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was yeah, so so I I mean I had access to great idea.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: I had like a Bloomberg terminal, I could do anything I wanted, but that wasn't there.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: And so when I said, why could do it internationally?
38:15
SPEAKER_01: My professor was like, um, that's gonna be mathematically very difficult because of the other variables you need in the formula.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh yeah, I didn't think of that.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: Um so, anyways, I just did a good old active versus passive in a slightly different way, uh, and I then I moved on from that.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: But then when I started Part of Norton, I was invited to the Worth Stone conference.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: And Worth Stone, they provide sort of an impact and sustainability due diligence on funds in the UK, which is really, really helpful.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I went to the conference and I remember there was uh one asset manager, fund manager there called Simon Bond.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: And Simon Bond is manages a bond fund.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: It's like the it's it's great.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: Bond of bonds.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's bond of bonds, exactly.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: Um and he had a mandate, was given a mandate by a big issue invest, so the charity, um, to create a bond fund that finances social issues in the UK.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so he created this bond fund that was at really well priced, like it wasn't that expensive at all.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: Um and it's its performance is actually pretty good.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, as you would expect from a corporate bond fund.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's um it actually big issue investors assesses how or the impact of the fund.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: So there's like this accountability, and they have lent to like um projects like Manchester University to develop you know their teaching facilities and so on.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: They have lent to Unilever specifically for an environmental project.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: So it's like all bonds that where you can follow the money and know where it goes, and and then you have to then report on the impact of it.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: And I thought this is brilliant that you can make a return on this.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: Why why doesn't every everybody do this?
39:59
SPEAKER_01: Like obviously, this is a solution to all lives, all our problems.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: Um I found it! I know, and then uh we had a panel discussion, and uh Damien Lardoux, who's like Damien Lardoux, because he's also French like me, he has been managing for I don't know, almost 10 years now.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, the impact uh the impact portfolios at EQ Investors.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: And so he had then the portfolios.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, obviously this is possible.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I remember talking to him and he explained to me, you know, what he did and everything.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: And um, so I then spoke to when I was at the at the conference, I spoke to our head of philanthropy at the time, Richard Child and my supervisor, Lee Dan, and I said, We could have portfolio.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, why don't we have portfolios like this?
40:42
SPEAKER_01: I know it's not evidence-based and all of that, but surely they're clients who really care about this stuff.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure we can we can make this.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: This this is not that hard.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: Little did I know.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, but and so they just went like, well, you know, climate go masters and finance, you know a thing or two about investing in funds and stuff.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: So um you go ahead.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: That's your project, that's what you're just gonna do.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you'll I'll still do financial planning, but this is your you know, your Friday afternoon or Friday morning type of job, if you like.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so and so that's that's how I got into it.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: And since then, I think it was six weeks into my job, you know, like that.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: And then I just I just um started looking at you know, through impact investing what it was.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: And people often ask me, so how did you get so proficient in knowing all this stuff?
41:25
SPEAKER_01: And I'll say, well, I looked at how you know impact investors, asset managers, institution investors, where do they educate themselves?
41:33
SPEAKER_01: And I started following their content.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: And then um when I actually then went to speak to asset managers, not only had I all I'd had all this background finance, so that I could talk, you know, one-on-one.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: I knew about PE ratios and all that stuff.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: But the other thing is I, even though I learned a lot from them, um, I had this, you know, this background about how it works as well.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, so then and then that's how I became the guru at part of the woman, if you like.
41:58
SPEAKER_02: So what would you say then to our audience who are out there watching?
42:03
SPEAKER_02: Because I've been so inspired by what you say, like the whole thing about sustainable investing sounds so incredible in the way that you can not only sort of manage your own assets but help help the future as a whole.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: So, what would you say to people out there?
42:15
SPEAKER_02: May that be financial planners, may there be power planners, may there be administrators, whatever within their firm.
42:19
SPEAKER_02: And they're like, hmm, I don't think that's going on here.
42:22
SPEAKER_02: What would my firm, what would you suggest that they do?
42:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think um I think you have to speak to the person who's you know in control of the investment strategy.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: So if you have a centralized investment strategy, you know, put a white paper together for investment committee or your board or YEXCO, wherever decisions are made and say, look, this is happening, we should do something about it.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: And if you're passionate about it, ask to actually lead the project.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: It's such a great way for your own development to do this.
42:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and you know, there are there are now so many services.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: So if you're a smaller firm and you can't afford to post so many resources and building your own things, you have so many DFMs out there on the active and the passive side or the systematic side, how I like to call it, um, who you can talk to and say, you know, we're just gonna pick a service.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's and and you can do that as well.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's not um it's not like a huge hurdle.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: Like you you can just you can set something up.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: There's so many more options there were three years ago when I started this.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: So uh at Pride of Norton.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's it's um much more common than it was.
43:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's definitely possible.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and it's the future, as we said.
43:32
SPEAKER_02: So now's the time to start getting involved.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this year there are so many different conferences by you know, professional advisor, and everybody's talking about sustainable investing.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: So um, if you haven't attended any, you know, all of them or some of them, I mean you you will see everywhere in the press, it's all the talk is about sustainable investing, ESG investing.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, get on, get on.
43:53
SPEAKER_02: Get on and it's definitely possible, you know, for financial planners that might be watching that are interested themselves, as you said, to go to seminars, go to talks, get involved, you know, hone in their own skills and niche down.
44:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if if our people, you know, sometimes people like to do exams about these things.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm currently doing the CFA um exam, so the chart advanced analyst exam, uh, specifically the ESG certificates, and it gives you such a good in-depth overview of ESG investing and impact and so mostly ESG.
44:21
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you do that exam and you'll be like, right, I know what's going on.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: And you've got a good lot of great tools to um, you know, to drive this in your own firm.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you said it's the future.
44:32
SPEAKER_02: Do we know what that future might look like?
44:36
SPEAKER_02: Do you know what that future might look like?
44:37
SPEAKER_02: Do you think it's gonna be like all across the range?
44:39
SPEAKER_02: Do you think you're gonna offer more sort of sustainable investing options than maybe others, than other options that you put on the card?
44:46
SPEAKER_01: Or I think the way it's gonna pan out is I think you'll get a more and more to like personal indexing so that instead of saying, I need to target the highest risk-adjusted returns out there, it'll be what kind of return do you need?
44:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, what are your own, you know, ethical preferences, and then construct sort of a personal index out of this, and then say, um, you know, with tolerances, you know, you say, you want no alcohol, okay, but are you okay with Tesco selling alcohol?
45:12
SPEAKER_01: Yes, okay, you know, and then you can't just base on stuff like that and say, okay, so well, this is your personal benchmark.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: This is the performance benchmark going to target, and this is the products or the funds that we can use to do that.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: And then it's becomes much more about you and what you need rather than I want to shoot the lights out for the sake of shooting the lights out with my investments.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think this is definitely the future.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: The tech is there, I've seen it myself, but it's not um available.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's not like wildly available to do because obviously um there's a lot of um it is still costly to then implement.
45:47
SPEAKER_02: Well, Clem, thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Live podcast and talking all things graduate scheme, mentorships, women in the industry, and you know, the little baby, your little baby that is uh sustainable invested.
46:01
SPEAKER_02: It's been so amazing to have you on board, and I feel like you've definitely educated me.
46:05
SPEAKER_02: There'll be, I'm sure there'll be lots of other people that have been educated today.
46:09
SPEAKER_02: So sounds like you know, this is the future.
46:11
SPEAKER_02: So if if you're not on board yet, now is the time.
46:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, thanks for having me.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: It's been so great.