Latest / Let's Get Naked / Free Speech vs. Emotional Smashing: Navigating Modern Discourse with Cameron Karber Part 2

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Free Speech vs. Emotional Smashing: Navigating Modern Discourse with Cameron Karber Part 2 · Let's Get Naked

0:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm Ann, and this is Let's Get Naked.
0:02
SPEAKER_01: The show where we expose the patterns, challenge the stories, and share the cheat codes that make life a whole lot easier.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: Last episode, we walked straight into the minefield fear-mongering, free speech, immigration, abortion.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: Not to figure out who's right, but to figure out what actually works.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: Because we've spent decades picking teams and almost no time building solutions.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Today we're diving into the rest of the list.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: Guns, religion, race, DEI, climate change.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: The goal isn't argument, the goal is curiosity.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Because the moment we stop trying to defeat each other, we finally have a chance to solve something.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: Let's get into it.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: Today Cameron is back for part two of uh the episode that I don't even remember what we titled it, maybe something with solutions or just proposed solutions.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back and thanks for coming and thanks.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure what that says about me, but I'm happy to be here with Marcos.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, for those that don't know Cameron or don't know me, you know, I've spent a lot of years uh all the years, probably, with my head in the sand about things that I can't control because I understand that my energy is not better best spent there on things that are happening in other countries or other parts of the world or things that I can't affect change with.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: Um but Cameron stays plugged into those things, and so he's a really great uh resource to be able to sh just kind of share his POV.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, or maybe, or no, you know, I love the face he's making right now if you're listening, but um he's a good sport one way or the other to come chat with me about stuff.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, I'm I'm I'm working real hard to get from you know the side of the road where you know you pay attention to uh to your side of the road.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm I'm kind of caught in between right now.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: So maybe I'm not as plugged in with the fine details of today's goings-ons, but uh but I think we could probably hit the high points enough to hammer it home.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: So what you just said was really powerful, and I wanted to circle back on that before we move on.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: So I'm on the side of the road that doesn't pay attention to things outside of my orbit.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Cameron was previously on the side of the road where he paid attention to all of the goings-on out in the world.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: And he's coming my way, not the other way around.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: And so for lots of reasons, I'd like to just point that out to the listener.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: One, just as a I'm winning.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, number not just from a fun, playful place.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: But number two, like it is it is, I think, the better way to go about it.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't mean you're not um plugged into just understanding what's going on out there, but if you if you're just getting raged up and and outraged about the things that are happening in other parts of the world, those things have been happening uh forever.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: It's a tail as old as time.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: So just you know, the dynamics of now everything is so accessible as far as social media and all of these things, um, it's not healthy, I don't think, to stay plugged into things like that.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's healthy to stay in a state of just rage and anger all the time because uh the world is full of things to be angry about.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: Like there's no shortage of that.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh but it's like if you keep getting sick, stop doing that.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: And it is making people sick, I believe that.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: So focus on what's in your orbit and what you can actually change.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, people get real, real crazy about well, you're not paying attention or you're not, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: And it's like I affect change on things that I'm passionate about in my community.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: And I hope that that ripples out to other things, which is the reason why I wrote the book and the reason why I do the show.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I feel like I'm actually able to be effective.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: I don't think the the world needs another keyboard, keyboard warrior uh out there screaming into the void about what's right or what's wrong.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: That doesn't to me seem like a very wise way to spend one's energy.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Um so you know, that's the that's the the point that I hammer home as far as what my position is.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: So um let's get into it.
3:47
SPEAKER_03: Let's do it.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: So uh first one is guns.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: And and I love this.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: So maybe you can tell us a little bit about who you are as a human being uh so that we know what your POV is on guns.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, then we can talk about the pros, the cons, the what works, what doesn't.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I have a perspective on the you know the the overall gun argument as a sportsman, an outdoorsman.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh I enjoy uh shooting recreationally.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: I enjoy hunting.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: I am big about uh being armed for self-protection.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's uh it's a shame that uh those types of things have become politicized and turned into uh a reason to divide us when uh in in in my opinion it those those two things just don't go together, right?
4:44
SPEAKER_00: But but here we are in the middle of it, and you know, you have people that look look down your nose for for carrying weapons, they have people that look down their nose at you for for being out and hunting and doing and doing those types of activities.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: And so uh so that's that's my that's my perspective, that's where I come from on it.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: I just don't think that uh the government or my fellow citizens have any business telling me what I can or can't have or what I can or can't do with those weapons.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: So so what is your position as far as people that would say um that we need gun control laws or that we should just eliminate guns altogether?
5:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, let's let's talk about some of the different positions that you find out there when you listen to my my initial reaction to that is throw them in the chipper, you know?
5:28
SPEAKER_00: I just I don't I don't have to be a not the guns.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: I think he's referring to the people that are trying to tell you not the guns, so just throw the throw the people in the chipper.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: Um I just don't think that uh the solution to any issue is to impose more control or more government or to have somebody impose their will on onto somebody else.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: I just don't think that's the answer.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: The answer in in in almost zero cases uh for any problem is to take away people's freedoms, right?
5:59
SPEAKER_00: And I don't see most people like myself or the people that I associate with when I go to those types of activities.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't see those people using the guns in negative ways, right?
6:10
SPEAKER_00: It's always uh a different subset of society, you know, career criminals, people with mental illnesses, you know, those types of things.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: And so when when you look at that and you kind of notice the pattern that goes along with that, and you see the criminality that was already there to begin with, and you see the mental illness that was already there to begin with, um, I just don't understand why or how you look at that and say the answer is to take away the the guns from the law-abiding people, right?
6:40
SPEAKER_00: And so it just doesn't, it it doesn't track, right?
6:43
SPEAKER_00: It just the whole the whole thing doesn't make very much sense.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's probably um, you know, last time we talked a bunch about fear and fear being a big motivator.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: And the the only thing I can think is that uh for the people who would uh who would want to regulate you know what arms you can and can't have, it's a fear thing from them.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Like they're they're living in fear over who knows what, right?
7:06
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean I think who I think we know what, right?
7:09
SPEAKER_01: Watch what's happened uh over the last couple of decades as it relates to guns because it's gotten really scary out there with with school shootings and with uh you know the the way that people are using guns, and I think that is where the fear is rooted in.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a very fear-based topic.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh and I think when you have fear at that big of a level, it gets people not thinking clearly, which I understand, right?
7:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm not I'm not judging that.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying that that to me makes sense that people would really be coming from a place of fear as a mother, sending kiddos to school.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh and and you feel the same thing as a father, so I'm not trying to take anything away from you.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm just speaking from my POV of uh it's scary as fuck out there.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's scary to be sending our kiddos to school when they have to do drills about what would they do.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: And and we've had, you know, our son when he was in school, there was a couple of different instances, and it's the most helpless feeling on the planet.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: And uh and and I my heart goes out to people who have been uh adversely affected by that.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, the right, but or also and whatever, um, a person needs to understand the cost of freedom, right?
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Freedom isn't free and it requires participation, right?
8:16
SPEAKER_00: If you're afraid of guns being all over the place, right, your partition your participation in alleviating that fear or addressing the problem shouldn't be trying to control, you know, other people that are minding their own business and not doing anything wrong.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you should be more attentive to the weirdo in your neighborhood who may or may not have a whole bunch of guns, you know, hanging out or whatever.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you should spend some more time, you know, trying to help the the community as a whole with wellness or mental issues or whatever and trying to pay attention to things like that.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: See something, say something, you know, those types of things.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: And the solution's gonna lie, a better solution is going to lie there where everybody keeps their freedoms and everybody participates than no, I'm I'm gonna argue with you till till I feel like I've won something, and that and at the end of the day, nobody wins anything.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Everybody loses at that point, you know.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's part of why I want to have these conversations about these big topics, because it's like I think so many people come from this place of I'm right, you're wrong, I'm right, you're wrong.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: What has that gotten us?
9:17
SPEAKER_01: Because we're just sitting here waiting for the next shoe to drop, uh, you know, for the next shooting to happen, for the next mass thing.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: And everyone is so numbed out to that um that it's just so hard to have compassion or to even get plugged into that.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: It's like you, you know, I remember the very first one that happened at Columbine, or the first one that was in my awareness that happened at Columbine.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: That was a long time ago, you know, how 30 years ago or something?
9:39
SPEAKER_01: Long, long time ago.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I'm from Colorado, right?
9:42
SPEAKER_01: Like that was a that was a really big thing back then.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh so incredibly tragic.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: Now you get to the point where I I I don't even know how many of them are happening, it just happens all the time.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: And I don't again, I don't pay attention to the news, and so people are like, oh my god, did you hear about what happened in Michigan or whatever state?
9:56
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, I didn't.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: And and and also I'm not going to get outraged about that because I understand why it happens.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: I know I can see what I think the root cause is.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it doesn't have anything to do with guns.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, it yes, 100% has nothing to do with guns.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: And that's the unfortunate part about it, right?
10:11
SPEAKER_00: There's probably a number of, you know, what they would consider mass shootings or multiple shootings that happen, you know, all over the place weekly, you know.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: All the time.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, it it happens all the time, right?
10:24
SPEAKER_00: And a person, a critical person has to wonder, well, how come this particular one got sensationalized, right?
10:32
SPEAKER_00: Why did this particular one make the news feeds?
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Why is everybody getting, you know, educated about this one or everybody's talking about this one?
10:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, why is that?
10:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, why isn't it the other one that was happening over here or the other one that happened over here?
10:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, and why isn't anybody talking about the gun violence, you know, that happens in places like Chicago?
10:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, like those people there have very strict gun laws, and yet they have the highest gun violence rate in the country, maybe the world, right?
10:59
SPEAKER_00: It is astonishing that we just leave that problem, go.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: And yet we wouldn't talk about you know something that happened in it in a in a small town in Texas, or we want to talk about something that happened in Florida or Colorado or whatever.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, right?
11:15
SPEAKER_00: There's some, there's there somebody somebody's somebody's got some point that they're trying to make here.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: They're trying to make sure that you know the fear is you know spread out evenly around the country, or what is, you know, I I personally don't know.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't really want to know.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: That takes a lot of uh takes a lot of Skittles, right?
11:33
SPEAKER_00: Takes a lot of skills.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Wasted Skittles to understand how that goes.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: But I can look at it at its face value and say, something's not right here, right?
11:40
SPEAKER_00: We're being we're being misled over this whole situation thoroughly.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: We are, and I think I think media has that.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: So so anyone that's listening that doesn't understand the Skittles reference, you know, from from the book that I have, uh Skittles is energy, right?
11:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh just so that you can quantify it, and I believe you're absolutely right, it is a waste of Skittles.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: But I think the media uh really points to you in the direction that they want to, and they spin that fear because that fear and that anger and that hatred is very profitable.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: It is um and it's the reason why I stay unplugged, because it's like, yes, I understand that there are messed up things that happen in the world, and also I understand that real life when you get out into the wild is quite a different picture than what you see on TV.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm 100%.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm not going to sit in front of the TV or in front of the phone and social media and that kind of thing and be outraged about what's happening out in the world.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna go out in the world because I think that that's part of uh, you know, my part of being part of the solution is going out and showing kindness to one another, going out and talking with people, going out and having the human connection because I will maintain that I think that the the the biggest issue with gun violence um is a lack of human connection.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: I think if you go back and you look at the statistics of who the shooters are and where they are, a lack of human connection is a really big glaring pattern, is a really, you know, big glaring fact that that um is common among those those instances.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: And uh and it and it scares me because I think humanity has taken hit after hit after hit in in our society and in on our planet.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: Um and we need a win.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: Humanity needs a big win, you know.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: So what would you say as far as your what feels like steps that could be done to kind of be part of the solution?
13:18
SPEAKER_01: I have my suggestions.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Um do you have yours as far as, you know, when people say gun control or they say, you know, what what should be able to be used, or or laws about like uh purchasing guns, and you know, what does that look like for you, or what are your opinions on that?
13:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think we're we think we're probably about maxed out on the on the regulations as far as that goes.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of the stuff that comes out, it just seems so trivial, like what we argue over anymore.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, and there's a there seems to be a pretty common uh lack of knowledge about how firearms work, about how magazines work, et cetera, et cetera, with amongst the people that would be the willing to take people's guns away, right?
14:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, we talk about we talk about you know high capacity magazines or whatever, okay, fine, outlaw them, but it doesn't fix the problem because you can change a clip in less than a second, right?
14:11
SPEAKER_00: So, like, okay, fine, whatever.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, what have what have you really done?
14:15
SPEAKER_00: Right, that makes you feel better.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it doesn't it it doesn't make anybody feel better, right?
14:19
SPEAKER_00: And I it just you know, these these even incremental changes that we make about stuff like that, they don't matter.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, they don't matter.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't move the needle, I think.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't it doesn't move the needle, and all all it does is it it pisses everybody off.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, it it divides people even further as far as that goes.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: And it's just it's crazy to see um see um how how poisonous people can get in in spewing things like that, specifically with the gun control or whatever.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, my so my solution is uh get over it.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: You're just gonna have to get over it.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: We're not going to be a a nation that is unarmed, where it's written into our constitution that will likely never change.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Certainly not going to change in in my lifetime, I don't think.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: And so everybody just needs to get over it.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: It's here, right?
15:09
SPEAKER_00: That that situation is here.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: It's the it's the price that we pay for freedom, right?
15:14
SPEAKER_00: It's one of those things that we have to have in order to keep our freedoms in in most cases.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: And so it is what it is.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: Just just stop it, right?
15:25
SPEAKER_00: If you if you've got some sort of beef with the with that, you've got to go about it a different way because guns aren't going away.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, then what do you suggest as far as um, you know, trying to either minimize the occurrences of things happening?
15:38
SPEAKER_01: Like, again, I I go back to the human connection component of it, and so then I do all of the things that I think I can to try to promote human connection and one 100%.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: And so there's two things about that.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, number one is you got to take the kid gloves off of the justice system, right?
15:54
SPEAKER_00: And it's always, oh, well, there was this, and there's always some excuse why you gotta go easy on people.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: No, stop it.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: If people are out there committing crimes with guns, then they need to be locked away, period, right?
16:07
SPEAKER_00: And 100%, period, because the fallout of that makes it worse on everybody else, right?
16:12
SPEAKER_00: So the that's the number one thing that has to happen if if if we're gonna take control of that situation is to is to take control of the justice system, right?
16:20
SPEAKER_00: And then the second part of it is, like to your point, about the human connection, right?
16:25
SPEAKER_00: If you don't know the the kid down the street that's super weird, you know, and and you're afraid that he might be doing some stuff like that, maybe you should go get to know him a little bit.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you should reach out and have a kind word here or there or whatever, you know, maybe you should pay a little bit more attention as a regular person, right?
16:40
SPEAKER_00: Those types of things, right?
16:42
SPEAKER_00: That's gonna help to we're probably not gonna likely fix every mental illness, right?
16:48
SPEAKER_00: But if we're seeing something and we're saying something and we're trying to be cool to people, that's all we can do, right?
16:53
SPEAKER_00: And that's after that, it is what it is.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: And that then that that's that's what it means to live here.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: That's just what it is.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think the kindness and the human component of it will would go a long way in that because everyone is so isolated and so uh feared up.
17:09
SPEAKER_01: Yep, you know, uh, and I and I don't I don't blame people, I get it, it is really scary when you start talking about guns.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: Um but also let's start let's try to think clearly a little bit of okay, let's fix the route because putting one additional little tweak in a law isn't going to stop the people from going in and doing that.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: You know, I talk about the whole eight or you know, being at an eight or a nine, and and and folks don't know what that means, and so I keep explaining it.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, it's it's that you're a vessel and you keep putting stuff on top of that.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: And so if you're carrying all of these things around and you don't have any way to alleviate the pressure, and all it takes is somebody to bump into you, you know, cut you off in traffic or whatever, and you're you're m blowing things up and ruining your life and doing all of that stuff.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: I think that goes into a lot of what comes in with the with the gun violence.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Um people just they lose their they don't have any more capacity.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: They don't have any more capacity for bullshit and it just explodes, and that's what that looks like a lot of times.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: So um, okay, excellent.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: Let's let's move on to religion.
18:02
SPEAKER_03: Oh, great.
18:03
SPEAKER_03: Oh, great.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh God.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: So I tell me again, maybe tell a little bit about your background with religion.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: So again, I like I like to paint the story so that people can see, okay, here's where this POV is coming from.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: Because it isn't, it isn't your right or you're wrong or whatever.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: It's just here's your experience based on whatever your uh ingredients are in your recipe.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: So maybe share your ingredients in your recipe first.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: So I am a baptized and confirmed Lutheran.
18:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:29
SPEAKER_03: I didn't know that.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: And I spent uh kindergarten through eighth grade in a parochial Lutheran school here in Phoenix and went to high school uh at a Jesuit Catholic institution.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: And I've had a uh a pretty good taste of uh of of both of those religions, I I would say.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh I am uh I don't practice um either of those faiths uh as it is today.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh just don't um you know I'm gonna tell a story so that you can understand what I'm saying.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: So there's a uh there's a there's a photo, you know, kind of a funny photo that you'll see places, you know, most places you'll see it have it framed.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: It's been around since before the before the internet.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: And it's got uh it's got a couple of naked dudes in a bathtub and they're hugging each other.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: And it says in Mexico, Jesus loves you means something different.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: Right.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: And so, so, you know, Jesus, Jesus, right?
19:41
SPEAKER_00: So that's the that's the thing there, right?
19:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, in in Mexico, uh Chewy is a very common nickname for somebody named Jesus.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: And so I've adopted the Chewy nickname for Jesus, and so I call him Chewy.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: And so uh, you know, Chewy and I see the eye eye to eye on most things, but we don't see eye to eye on everything.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: And uh I don't feel like it's uh in in my best interest to try to resolve those issues because I'm pretty steadfast in the things I believe that he would have issue with.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: And so uh, and so I'm not gonna I'm not gonna spend my Sundays um devoting any time to that, right?
20:18
SPEAKER_00: The the rest of my life I'm gonna spend spend my time doing what I do to with what I think is right and good and just and appropriate for the circumstances that I find myself in.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: Um so you know, and uh I'll I'm gonna go there right now so that uh we can just rip the band-aid off.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: And I just don't see how anybody can put their faith in an institution that's has a number of kid touchers and and and a network of people that would hide those kid touchers instead of just directly fixing the problem, right?
20:54
SPEAKER_00: So that's a I don't I don't see the morality in that situation where you can say it's okay for us to to protect these people regardless of what good they've ever done in their lives.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: To me, that's a it should be a capital offense every time, every time that it happens.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: So if you're if you're that person, I think I think we want you in a chipper.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, as a as a society, and I just can't I can't support an organization that would hide people like that.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's not it's not good.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: I I I feel the exact same way, and it's funny that you ripped the band-aid off before I did.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: But I I I'm almost a little bit upset about it because I you know I like to ride that one pretty hard.
21:32
SPEAKER_03: I know you do.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so for for folks that don't know my uh religious upbringing, I was raised Catholic.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh and and Cameron was educated in that way.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: I was raised that way.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: We were go to church multiple times a week, like that whole vibe.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: Um and I and I believe exactly what you do, right?
21:49
SPEAKER_01: I think I think there's a difference between religion and spirituality, and it took me a lot of years to get to that point because I had such hard feelings towards organized religion.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Um I've since changed my ways.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Over the last 10 years and really have a great relationship with what you call Chewy, right?
22:03
SPEAKER_01: I call him the big guy.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: And the big guy lives in here, right?
22:06
SPEAKER_01: He lives inside of me.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's your gut.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: I think that's your nectar.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: I think that's your knowing.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: And um and and so that's my relationship with him.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: Generally, he speaks loudest to me when I'm out in nature, you know, when I'm connected with things.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't live in a in an old building where uh where we hide the kid touchers.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh and so so I just I I also can't believe that.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: You know, when when all of that was going down and it was coming out, and it's like, okay, they're gonna handle this the right way.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: And as far as I'm concerned, it's been fumbled and they haven't handled it the right way.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: So when I drive by churches, I still chuckle in my spirit a little bit that they're even in business.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: Because I think I uh uh again, this is uh not not all the way up on the current events, but I think they disbanded the Boy Scouts.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Like I think I think it's back.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: I think I think it's back.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: I think it's I think it's back.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: I think the Boy Scouts paid a bigger price than the Catholic Church did.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: And they probably did less.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: They probably did less.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Like like there's a lot of grown-ass men out there that have gone through really savage sexual abuse at the hand of of uh you know higher-up folks in organized religion.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: True.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: And and and I'd like to and I like to say it this way.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: Um organized religion institutions are businesses.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: And if you don't see that, open your eyes.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: This is not this big money, it's big money.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: And this is not the big guy, right?
23:19
SPEAKER_01: This is yes, they're representing on half of who they interpret the big guy to be, but that's not the big guy, right?
23:25
SPEAKER_01: Organized religion is very man-made.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: Um folks that are tapped into spirituality have already been to hell and back, right?
23:32
SPEAKER_01: People that are religious are are trying to uh get into heaven, and I just think there's a big distinction there.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: Um but but if I had at my business, right, my my operations manager's name's Tony.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: If I found out that my operations manager was touching uh people, customers, right?
23:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean that's that's the the equivalent of what that is.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: You know what that's exactly.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: It's totally is, right?
23:52
SPEAKER_01: Exactly the same.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: It totally is.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: So if I found out that my my employee was touching customers, uh he wouldn't work there anymore.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: He would be in jail.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: Like, period.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: Like it it's to press charges to the fullest extent of the law.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: And we're not even talking about customers that are underage children.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: So so when you're talking about organized religion where there is so much uh sexual abuse that has happened, uh, and then the way that they treated that, if you feel like that's still the way that you want to connect with your big guy, your version of big guy, wow.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean, take take a close look at that.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: Take a close look at that.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: You don't need to, you don't need to have a relationship with the big guy in a specific building.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: You don't need to give 10% of your uh earnings, you should give 10% of your earnings to other things, right?
24:38
SPEAKER_01: To things that you're passionate about and all of this stuff.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: So I don't mean it like that.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: But you're supporting kid touchers.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: When they pass the the tray around and you're putting your dollars in there, that that's what you vote with, you're supporting people that did not handle uh what is to me the most disgusting uh abuse of power that I can come up with.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh all across all across all things, right?
25:02
SPEAKER_01: Organized religion is we're the right people, come worship at our places, it is absolutely man-made.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: They found out that the people were touching the kids and they just moved them to other parishes.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: And you can get into a real big deep dive on on all of the facts and figures for that, and not very many people have been held accountable for all for how many people were traumatized in that situation.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's kind of like in if you look at you know the you know, religion as organizations or whatever, it doesn't matter.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't I don't care what the organization is.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: As soon as it gets big enough or widespread enough or whatever, there's just corruption that happens.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, and it and and it and it happens on all levels.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, we talk about the the kid touchers, but there's you know the stories that you hear about you know people stealing money and stuff like that, special favors and special contracts and stuff like that.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: You know, it just it just happens, you know, it happens and it and it ruins the experience for a lot of people.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: And so it's uh it's in in my opinion is counterproductive.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not something that uh that I think is appropriate to get involved with.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: Well, and again, if you don't realize that churches are businesses, right?
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Organized religion is big business.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Take a look at it from that perspective and decide if that's where you decide that you want to patronize because that's what you're doing, is you're supporting those folks that didn't handle something in a way that is respectable to me, sure, and you will not find me in a church.
26:25
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: Not on Sundays, not ever.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: That's just not not where you'll find me.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: That's not how I vote with my my time or my energy.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: That's not where you spend your skittles at the time.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: That's not where I spend my Skittles.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, I again I think Chewy, the big guy, um, whatever you want to call him, yes, absolutely.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: I think I think he's uh, you know, needs to be at the front and center.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: And so when people get all worked up about religion, pump the brakes and understand that I'm not talking about your God.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm not talking about your God.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm talking about the people that you get your God through.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: And I think there's a lot of bullshit associated with that.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: And if you think that that's not like that, maybe take a different thing, maybe put on a different pair of glasses.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: Right?
27:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh do you feel like there's anything else you want to say about religion?
27:06
SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like we covered that one pretty well.
27:08
SPEAKER_03: I felt like up.
27:09
SPEAKER_03: Okay, excellent.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh moving right along to race.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, this one is uh is a fun race cars?
27:14
SPEAKER_01: Not race cars.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: God fuck, I wish.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, um race is so charged right now that uh it that people can't say anything.
27:23
SPEAKER_03: It it's a good thing.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: And and and I feel like um it kills me.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it kills me from all angles because I think uh however you feel about it, you're right.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, and I want everyone to know that.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: From your point of view, from your specifics.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: We're all right, we're all wrong.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: All right, we're all right, we're all wrong.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: And I and I agree with you a thousand percent.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: But I do think that from everyone yelling into the void about someone being right or someone being wronged, or like whatever that looks like, you're all right.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: Right?
27:54
SPEAKER_01: From your from your specific POV, uh with the knowledge that you have currently, you're absolutely right.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: And you don't need anyone to validate that for you.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: And if you feel like you do maybe look inside, maybe go in inward uh to figure that out.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: What do you think about it?
28:08
SPEAKER_00: But the but the result of it is the same, right?
28:11
SPEAKER_00: You can you can be right.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: You can yell into the void, you can scream about every injustice that ever happened to anyone on any level of of race through time, right?
28:22
SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't fix the issues that we have right now, right?
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: You can you can yell and scream and stomp your feet and say, talk about this injustice or that injustice or whatever.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: Then what happened?
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: It just the only thing, the only thing that happens when when when people get really, you know, enraged and incensed about that kind of thing, is it just turns everybody off that might listen to them from listening to them, right?
28:50
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't, and it and and it just doesn't accomplish anything, right?
28:54
SPEAKER_00: And and I come from the the position in in that situation is you know, um I'm treat everybody the same because we're all in this thing together, right?
29:08
SPEAKER_00: So my question is what would you have me do different than treat you the same and treat you to equal as everybody else, right?
29:19
SPEAKER_00: What would you have me do differently, right?
29:22
SPEAKER_00: Because if you want me to do something different, then somehow yeah, you're asking me to give preferential treatment to you over something.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not doing that, right?
29:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm not doing that for anybody.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't care what or who or where or nothing about that person, right?
29:38
SPEAKER_00: You get to be a person, right?
29:39
SPEAKER_00: That's that's it, and I don't give a shit.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: What paint job Chewy gave you, it doesn't make any difference to me, right?
29:46
SPEAKER_00: If if we're going to connect as humans, yeah, right, then we're going to connect as people, and there's not going to be anything in the way of it, right?
29:56
SPEAKER_00: And so it's just it's bothersome to me that that people would have other people treat certain groups of people differently because I just don't think that's the goal here, right?
30:07
SPEAKER_00: How how is it that we make it so that some some race or some group of people is somehow better than other people and receive some sort of you know preferential treatment of some sort?
30:17
SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't make sense.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: I can't, I just I just can't grasp it.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think I think there's there's a lot of fatigue that comes in with that as well.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: Because because I think as a white person in America, um, you know, I continue to get motherfuckered all the time, just as white people, of we've done something wrong.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I'm not trying to go back and and and argue history or whatever happened, and I get that, but also, and then what happened, right?
30:42
SPEAKER_01: Because we can argue all of that stuff as much as you want to, but if we're not coming from a place of solutions to advance that forward, we're all just sitting here doing this uh super unproductive circle jerk that's just like, Jesus Christ.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: Agreed, you know, and the I think the other thing that's super important to the to the conversation, and in my opinion, it's the most important thing to the conversation, is before I'm really willing to listen to anybody talk about, you know, what problems we have and where we need to get to, I'd like to have an acknowledgement about how far we've come to get to where we're at right now.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of people in this world that have devoted their lives to fixing racial problems, right?
31:27
SPEAKER_00: There's a whole bunch of people that have uh that have come before us, right, to try to bridge those gaps in the past.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: And if we say that, you know, we've never done anything and it's just bullshit where we're at and whatever, right?
31:40
SPEAKER_00: You've taken away credit for all those people's efforts to get us to where we are right now, right?
31:46
SPEAKER_00: And if you can look at where we are right now compared to where we were, you know, a hundred years ago, 50 years ago, 150 years ago, it's pretty incredible.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it's pretty incredible the progress that we've made on all kinds of fronts.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: And so to discount all of those efforts and say that we're zero, you know, progress is bullshit, right?
32:08
SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't get me listening to anything that you have to say after that, right?
32:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the the and I feel like there's gotta be other people like me out there that as soon as you say we've never really made any progress, we're just blah, blah, blah, we're this racist, and it blah blah blah.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: Like nobody's listening, right?
32:22
SPEAKER_00: You've just you've lost your audience.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: I got tired of watching people drag themselves through life half dead from exhaustion, comparison, and bullshit.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: So I built a system that flips the script.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: This book is for the ones who refuse to settle, who know deep down there's more, and who are ready to call themselves out to level up.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: If that's you, welcome.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: You can get your copy of the Life Hack Playbook on Amazon or on the podcast website at let's get nakedpodcast.com.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: I think I think you're absolutely right.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: And I think the whole fatigue about um, you know, beating people up about things and whatever, it's like, okay, excellent.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: And then what happened, right?
33:09
SPEAKER_01: Because if we're if we're just beating one another up about whatever happened in the past, but we don't live in that way, right?
33:15
SPEAKER_01: Like Cameron and I are in our, you know, late 40s, early 50s, just for demographic purposes, right?
33:21
SPEAKER_01: We have raised three children that range from 19 to 30 that um, you know, I don't come from this place of we don't see color because I don't agree with that statement in general, but um, who treat people equally, you know.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: I I look at our son, he idolizes black people.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: And so it's like as a him being a white man that's coming up in this country to have people motherfucker him, he's like, Are you crazy?
33:43
SPEAKER_01: Like that it just doesn't make sense to me.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: So it's like we have to figure out a reset of saying, like, you're right, there's some real fucked up stuff that happened.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: And and I don't know the facts because I don't get twisted up in it, because it's like, you know, you have people that are yelling about the slavery that happened, and you have people that are yelling, well, black people had slaves too, and then you have people that yell like all of these things.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: And here's what I think we can come together on common ground.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: Slavery was real fucked up.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter who fucking started it, right?
34:09
SPEAKER_01: This is the eight-year-old POV that I'm coming from.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: That's terrible.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: We stopped it.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: Great job, you guys.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: This is fucking excellent.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Let's acknowledge that, and then what are we gonna do about it, right?
34:19
SPEAKER_01: Because if you can't come from a place of I didn't get to pick the color of my skin any more than so-and-so down the street got to pick the color of their skin, you know, we we did that thing the other day where um Casey came on and I did this kind of show and tell thing where I dealt out cards.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: And it's like there are certain things that you get dealt that you don't have a choice of, right?
34:37
SPEAKER_01: Color of my skin, gender, you know, some of the different things that I have going on.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: I didn't get to pick those things.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: So is it easier for me?
34:43
SPEAKER_01: And they people talk about white privilege and like all of these different things.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: Is it easier for me?
34:47
SPEAKER_01: Is it not?
34:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: Let me give you the other things that I was dealt as well, where we were poor as shit, where I had a bunch of sexual trauma, where I had all of these other things, and we'll just stack all that stuff up.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: Where where do you think I should feel bad about what my upbringing is?
34:58
SPEAKER_01: I didn't.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to trade with me?
35:01
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, like we'll trade, we'll trade, you know.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: I and also I what what's the score?
35:06
SPEAKER_01: Where's the comparison?
35:07
SPEAKER_01: It's like I don't know what it's like to be raised black.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't know what it's like to be raised brown.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: I know what it's like to be raised with the things that I was raised with.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: But I live my my life in a way where I treat people equally and I don't associate with people who do anything different than that, and I stand up for uh for equality all the way across the board.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: But equality to me does not look like taking away and motherfuckering today's, you know, white people as an example for things that happened however long ago.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: It's like I don't know anyone in my orbit or in the world that has a slave, and I obviously would do something about it if I f if I if there was that that was actively happening.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so then what do you want me to do about it?
35:46
SPEAKER_01: Do you want me to stand on the top, you know, on the top of the mountain and say, God, that was really fucked up?
35:50
SPEAKER_01: It really was.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: Do you want me to tell people you're right for feeling like that was really terrible, that you're you that your ancestors had to go through that?
35:57
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, like you're not fucking wrong.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: And then what happened?
36:01
SPEAKER_01: Because we're in 2026 right now, and we are still spending an obscene amount of Skittles and energy on arguing about it, where it's like if we took a fraction of the energy that we spend on arguing about whether it was fucked up or not and put it towards solutions so that we can can move it, you know, advance things forward, doesn't that seem like the better way to spend that resource?
36:23
SPEAKER_01: And to me, I just don't get it.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: Like that's the that's the fear that everyone puts out there because they yell racism at the top of their lungs, and then I talk to people that are out in the wild all the time, and it's like we don't see it.
36:32
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not talking about white people, I'm talking about black people that are at my table of life who say, Don't see it, don't experience it, from all different walks of life.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: So it's like come on, you guys.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the issue is um generally with action comes accountability.
36:47
SPEAKER_00: Right.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Right.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: And so if you're going to do something other than just bitch or, you know, like you were saying, shout into the void or whatever, then you you have to take some accountability at that point.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: And accountability looks like understanding the circumstances and trying to move forward with some sort of useful solution or you know, or or some sort of meaningful action, right?
37:09
SPEAKER_00: But if you don't if you don't have that, then it's it's it's meaningless, right?
37:15
SPEAKER_00: Then you're just you know, you're you're just shouting into the void.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: You're you're you're you're saying things that nobody nobody wants to hear and and you're you're hindering progress.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: Well exactly, because I think it's just continuing to divide us.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like it's like I don't I don't think the majority of people feel that way.
37:32
SPEAKER_01: Right?
37:32
SPEAKER_01: I've talked to people all over the country.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: I I don't know how it happens in other countries, and I'm not even gonna get into that.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna speak specifically to the U.S., but I've talked to people all over the country, and it's like um the people that are fueling the fire about the racism uh are those that are rooted in fear and don't have any interest in having a solution in the first place.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: Or worse, they're profiting off of it.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: Hundred percent.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, the division is very profitable, and I think people should look at that from that standpoint, right?
37:57
SPEAKER_01: Because I don't want people out there clutching their pearls and saying, you know, whatever it is that they're gonna say.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: Look at who's profiting off of the division.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: Follow the money.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: And once you do that and you realize they don't want us to have a solution to this.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: They don't want us to come together as humans and say we're gonna love all of our people, because that's how I connect with people.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: Are you a good person?
38:15
SPEAKER_01: I don't give a shit what paint job you got or what gender you are or what you decide you want to associate with.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: Are you a good person?
38:21
SPEAKER_01: Are you a kind do you have a kind heart?
38:22
SPEAKER_01: Do you, you know, do you give back to your children?
38:24
SPEAKER_01: These are the things that are metrics for me in life and and for everyone that I know.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: Like I don't know people that come from this place of like, oh, we don't, you know, because of the color of their skin.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: So to me, I just don't I don't get it, and I think it's really sad that we don't come from a place of solutions instead of just causing the problem and continuing to advance the divide.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh because as humans, we're not the ones that are winning in that conversation.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: No, we're not.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: We're not the ones that are winning.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: Look at us, we're on to the second card already.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: Um DEI.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're rolling from race into DEI.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm gonna start on this one and tell you tell my PO POV on this.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: Because of the fact that I keep my head in the sand from news and from the goings on out in the world, I know nothing about DEI.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: So I come from a place of curiosity only and and asking questions, right?
39:10
SPEAKER_01: So when people talk about that, I'm like, why what is that?
39:13
SPEAKER_01: What does that make sense?
39:14
SPEAKER_01: Because I see a lot of different sides.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: I see a lot of people that are very excited about that, and I see a lot of people that are like, this is this is bullshit.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: So will you please share your maybe you can just tell us what your take on DEI is so that for folks that are living under a rock like me and don't know anything about it.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh DEI might be the worst concept that's happened to us in a hundred years.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: So um everybody knows diversity, equity, and inclusion.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: That's the that's the DEI, right?
39:48
SPEAKER_00: So there have been uh many employers, uh private and government, both that uh have adopted uh different uh DEI hiring principles.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: And the root of it is um we're going to hire somebody who is not necessarily the most qualified person for the job as long as they offer you know some sort of diversity uh amongst their gender or their race or their religion or their who knows what else, right?
40:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh when when when we start talking about we're no longer looking for the most qualified person for the job, you've lost me, right?
40:33
SPEAKER_00: Because I that's all I care about is is hey, if I gotta hire somebody, I'm gonna hire the best person for the job.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: Again, looking at resumes, you can't tell color from resumes, you know, you're looking at okay, look at this, look at this guy, look at this person, look at this whatever.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes you can't even tell gender by looking at a resume, you know, whatever.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: And all that's fine.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: But that's your first pass, right?
40:53
SPEAKER_00: And and so if you if you have to ignore the the good qualities of a person to hire or to engage with a person that is um less qualified, but uh somehow is supposed to offer something by being um more different somehow than uh the rest of your workforce.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: It's a losing proposition every single time.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: Like you're hamstringing yourself as an employer by hiring less than the most qualified person, right?
41:28
SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't it sends the wrong message to the people that you work with, you know?
41:32
SPEAKER_00: And it's like a lot of those people uh they make the same wage, right?
41:37
SPEAKER_00: You hire a person that's doing the same job as another person, right?
41:42
SPEAKER_00: And maybe the person you hired first was one of those candidates that was the strongest candidate for the position.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: And now, you know, next year we've got a new spot and we're gonna fill that with somebody who's less qualified, but they have a different paint job.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: And it does more damage to the producers that are the best people for that job because now they're looking at the I'm making the same money as this guy over here, this person's dragging me down.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're supposed to be good, we're supposed to be improving and working towards stuff, and now I'm I'm having to now I can't go, I gotta can't work, I gotta train this person, right?
42:20
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe this person's not necessarily trainable, right?
42:23
SPEAKER_00: So they didn't have enough skills to get hired in the first place, right?
42:25
SPEAKER_00: They got hired on something other than their skill set.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's ridiculous.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: It's it's 100% ridiculous.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: Now a number of the it's ironic, um, or or maybe not ironic at all, just logical that many of these companies that uh initiated these DEI hiring procedures, right, have scrapped them.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: They've scrapped them all over the place.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: So like, oh shit, this didn't work.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, really?
42:53
SPEAKER_00: Like that they yeah, no shit, right?
42:55
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm looking at holes all over the place as you're talking, explaining it to me.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, we know as business people, if you're not doing the best for your business, you're going your business is going to suffer 100%, right?
43:06
SPEAKER_00: And there are a couple of companies that have managed to, you know, kind of run the gauntlet and keep their DEI practices uh, you know, in full force.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: They feel like it it has worked for them or or whatever.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh Costco is the one that comes to mind.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: There, they won't, they they will not back down on their DEI hiring.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, whatever.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't know.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: If it works for you, great.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: If it works for you, works for you.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna, it's not gonna keep me from going to Costco, right?
43:32
SPEAKER_00: That's their business, right?
43:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna go tell them their business, right?
43:38
SPEAKER_00: If they provide a good product and it's easy for me to get in out and out of the store, then I'm gonna go use it, right?
43:44
SPEAKER_00: But I don't need somebody telling me how to run my business because when I run my business, I'm gonna hire the best person for the job, right?
43:51
SPEAKER_00: Regardless of what their, you know, what their background is based on race or or religion or or gender or age, you know, whatever.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't Those things don't matter to me as long as I've got a good solid person for the job, right?
44:04
SPEAKER_00: It just seems logical that that's how a business should operate.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the DEI thing to me, I I think it's you know, it's sunsetting for the most part in most of corporate America.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't, you know, I couldn't be happier about that.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, I want to see I want to see everybody succeed.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: I want to see companies succeed, I want to see businesses succeed, I want to see everybody doing the best that they can do, right?
44:26
SPEAKER_00: And you can't do that when you hamstring yourself by you know providing employee to somebody that's less than the best person for the job.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: So well, I I think as you're just explaining it, even it there's like, oh, there's a hole, there's a hole, there's something that's not gonna work well, this isn't gonna go.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: Like it to me, it just doesn't even make sense on all fronts.
44:44
SPEAKER_03: Like sure.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: If there is a problem that needed a solution, then let's come up with a different solution.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: How long ago has this been a thing?
44:51
SPEAKER_01: Because I know it's several years.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay, like decades or no, maybe a decade, one decade?
44:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh maybe, maybe not quite.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we tried it, didn't work out.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: Didn't work out, still turned through, we're getting it, we're getting it behind us.
45:04
SPEAKER_00: Again, for the most part, there are there are some companies that they they're they're still all about that, you know?
45:09
SPEAKER_00: And and and if that's the way you want to roll, then by all means roll that way.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: Is the is it only in in employment situations that the DE, I think is applicable?
45:19
SPEAKER_01: Well or is there other other areas that that I I love coming from this POV and I'm scared to what you're gonna get ready to say and also very excited.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
45:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, you could look at uh I mean uh when when you talk about filling positions like that, yes, employment is like the number one, but next you got you know the government is is one of those things.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: And you know, when we had uh the super old dude that was in the in the White House last time, he flat out said, you know, I'm not looking for the best candidate, I'm looking for, you know, the the best black woman I could find for this spot, you know, and so we have uh we have DEI appointments, you know, all over the government, right?
46:00
SPEAKER_00: And so um so there's that, right?
46:03
SPEAKER_00: Also, which uh is rather frightening, um and incredibly frightening as as it as it is.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: Um and so I'm yeah, so government is obviously the the next the next big one where where people get those positions.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm not really sure what we pay attention to after that, you know, your employer or your government or whatever.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't know of any friends groups that have gone out and said, hey, you know, that's different.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: I'd actually like to employ some DEI in my friend group because it's like I think every friend group should be diverse.
46:35
SPEAKER_01: I think if you're in the middle of an echo chamber where everyone looks exactly like you uh and thinks exactly like you, I think we gotta mix it up.
46:42
SPEAKER_01: I think we need to be playing like a game of boggle where we throw some people in and see who you know what lands where, and then that's who your friend group is.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: I think that's awesome.
46:49
SPEAKER_00: I haven't heard of too many basketball teams seeking out some Mexicans because there's not a lot of Mexicans in the NBA, and maybe we need some more diversity there.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: Like that's not a thing, right?
46:58
SPEAKER_00: So I don't see that with the with the with the sports, right?
47:01
SPEAKER_00: And so that's uh somehow they uh somehow they manage to escape the uh the DEI requirements, right?
47:09
SPEAKER_00: And yet people still go to the games.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: It's super weird.
47:12
SPEAKER_00: Weird, right?
47:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, super, super weird.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we don't see uh don't see too many uh NFL teams hiring the the the Asian athletes, right?
47:21
SPEAKER_00: Don't see that really at all, I think, in the NFL, and and nobody's getting on the NFL about that, right?
47:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's uh it's kind of interesting um in that context who we give a pass to and who we don't give a pass to.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: Right.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: So that's uh you know, it's just the whole thing was cooked up probably to divide us, right?
47:43
SPEAKER_00: Again, the whole because the whole concept of it is uh it's it's divisive for you know for for most folks, right?
47:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's what's profitable, you know, and and and every I think it's it's woven into every single episode that I do is just trying to get people to get curious about what's happening out there and what's being shown to you because it's like that's the circus.
48:03
SPEAKER_01: I call the circus politics, media, and big pharma, right?
48:06
SPEAKER_01: That's the three-ring circus to me.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: And if you look at all of those as they're intertwingled together, and what do they want you to see or what do they um what do they need you to see?
48:16
SPEAKER_01: What are they the focus effect, right?
48:18
SPEAKER_01: Where they're they're touching you over here so that they can be raping and pillaging over here so that they're distracting you.
48:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that happens all the time.
48:25
SPEAKER_01: And so they get people rage-bated about like, oh, you know, it's like, where are all these white people that that um hate hate other people, other colors?
48:33
SPEAKER_01: Like show me where those people are.
48:34
SPEAKER_01: I again, I I I'm all over the country and I'm all, you know, in in all sorts of different groups of things, I just I'm not seeing it.
48:41
SPEAKER_01: I talk with with people that are black and brown and it's like we're they're not seeing it either.
48:45
SPEAKER_01: So it's like I get that it's happening, I'm not coming from that place, but it's like then let's come from a from a solutions-oriented place.
48:50
SPEAKER_01: If it's a workplace thing where we feel like um there's systemic racism or things that are preventing people from getting jobs that they're qualified for, then let's 1,000% do that.
48:59
SPEAKER_01: If we don't have enough qualifications or enough um uh, you know, uh programs or things that help people, I don't mean programs like that, because I know that that word probably just makes you cringe, but if we don't have enough that, you know, helps people get to a place where they do have the skill set, then let's look at that.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: But forcing employers to have to uh, you know, not pick the most qualified person, that just seems like it has holes all over the place.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: You're making that business less amazing because you're forcing I mean, it just it doesn't make sense to me.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: It's uh the cancel culture has been a big, big driving factor for a lot of corporations and what they what they do and who they hire and stuff like that, right?
49:36
SPEAKER_00: Because they get threatened with uh with boycotts or we're not gonna go see your we're not gonna go watch you in concert anymore, or you know, we're not gonna buy your products anymore because you said this or you did this and blah blah.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just it's ridiculous.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: But you know, here's the other issue with it is you'll find what you seek, right?
49:57
SPEAKER_00: If you feel like there's racism all over the place, you're going to see it everywhere, right?
50:03
SPEAKER_00: If you don't feel like it's everywhere, then you're not going to see it, right?
50:06
SPEAKER_00: That's just it's a self-fulfilling prophecy when you go down that road, right?
50:10
SPEAKER_00: Whatever you seek, you're going to find, right?
50:13
SPEAKER_00: Or you're gonna you're gonna see things through that lens and they're going to appear that way, right?
50:18
SPEAKER_00: And then and for you, that's your that's your perception, right?
50:21
SPEAKER_00: That's your perceived reality.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't necessarily mean that there's all this stuff going on out there, but you interpret it that way, and that becomes reality for you.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think I think that's probably uh one of the larger overarching problems in that whole situation, also, right?
50:37
SPEAKER_00: You just haven't been able to find a way for everybody just to to reset and stop looking through those lenses anymore.
50:43
SPEAKER_00: Because if you if if you stop it and you don't look through that shitty lens, things aren't gonna look shitty.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: Right.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: You know?
50:49
SPEAKER_01: No, that's a that's a great that's a great point, and and I want to sort do a little bit of uh description on that.
50:55
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, your specific POV or point of view that you're engaging with this life from uh is based on all of the things that have happened to you, right?
51:04
SPEAKER_01: What color you are, what your makeup is, all of the different ingredients that go into making the recipe of your individual something, right?
51:11
SPEAKER_01: If you don't like the the glasses that you're looking through, change the goddamn glasses, right?
51:16
SPEAKER_01: Because you can do that.
51:18
SPEAKER_01: That's a real thing.
51:19
SPEAKER_01: I've done that multiple times.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: I've tried on a whole you know dozens of pairs of glasses to see where I got to, you know, and I end up at this what I tell everyone is my eight-year-old POV, because I think an eight-year-old in just the you know, eight-year-old, when you think about an eight-year-old, is uh coming from a place of awe and wonder.
51:35
SPEAKER_01: They're coming from a place of make it make sense, you know.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: Little John always was the one that that brought that home for me when her him and Adeline were talking about like, why don't we put sick people down?
51:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, no filter exactly.
51:46
SPEAKER_01: And so that's the that's the perspective that I have decided to engage with this life in.
51:51
SPEAKER_01: Um I just assume everyone likes me, you're right.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a ding dong.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: I know everyone doesn't like me.
51:55
SPEAKER_01: I don't care, I'm the one holding the goddamn paintbrush.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, so I I think you're absolutely right.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: I think you know, you will find what you're looking for.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: And if you decide that you want to come from this negative perspective and you want to be out there looking for every injustice in the world, you'll see it everywhere.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna see it, and that's where you're gonna spend your energy.
52:11
SPEAKER_01: I decide that I would rather come from this place of awe and wonder and curiosity and then do the things that I feel like are able to spark change in not only myself, but my family, my tribe, my community.
52:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and and then I and then I put my money where my mouth is, and the things that that pull up my heart strings, I do something about, right?
52:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm a good person, I'm a kind person.
52:29
SPEAKER_01: So it's like I think more people maybe might think about trying on that eight-year-old uh pair of glasses to see how that fits for you because it's a really lovely place to come from.
52:40
SPEAKER_01: Um is it a little ding-donggy?
52:42
SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
52:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: What does that feel like from your point of view, right?
52:46
SPEAKER_01: You've seen me with all the different kinds of glasses on.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, whatever it works for you.
52:51
SPEAKER_00: And if that's what makes you happy, then that makes me happy to see you that way.
52:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
52:54
SPEAKER_01: So can't in our relationship, Cameron can't put on the eight-year-old POV because I'm the ding-dong that's like, I got my eight-year-old glasses on, life is real good.
53:02
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, fuck, I'll I got this one too.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: Don't worry, I got your back on this one too.
53:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's true, you know, it's like wipe the glasses a little bit if you've got a bunch of mud and muck on there.
53:11
SPEAKER_01: Because um the things that happened to you in the past are not necessarily representative of what's happening out there.
53:16
SPEAKER_01: And so if you have this huge uh chip on your shoulder because you're a woman and not a man, or you're a man and not a woman, or you're a certain color, you know, it's like none of us got to pick.
53:26
SPEAKER_01: I didn't get to check the box of I want to be white, or I want to be a woman, or I want to be, you know, whatever.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: These are the things that were dealt to me.
53:33
SPEAKER_01: This is what I play.
53:35
SPEAKER_01: I can sit and compare them to other people and say so-and-so had it easier because she didn't have whatever, or they had money growing up, or or that she didn't have all of this trauma, or she didn't have whatever.
53:44
SPEAKER_01: You can go do that as much as you want.
53:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't think we have a universal scorecard that says like minus two because you're a certain color, or plus three because you didn't have this, or didn't have that.
53:53
SPEAKER_01: So you can sit and spend as much time and energy as you want to comparing yourself to people that are next to you, or you can say, What am I going to do about it?
54:02
SPEAKER_01: How am I gonna be the best possible version of myself that I can?
54:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then run it from that, you know, from that perspective.
54:08
SPEAKER_01: I think that's important.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not we're we're uh so far out of time that I don't want to uh dive into the climate change, and I don't even know that there's anything really to talk about with the climate change unless there's like a couple of sentences that you just want to quickly say.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: Climate's gonna change.
54:21
SPEAKER_01: We're burying but we're we're burying trash in the belly of our of our planet, right?
54:26
SPEAKER_01: Mother Earth is eating our trash.
54:28
SPEAKER_01: You think climate's not gonna change?
54:29
SPEAKER_01: Like it's going to change.
54:32
SPEAKER_00: It just it has all the way through time.
54:34
SPEAKER_00: And it's, you know, the that I think the science is settled that the climate is changing, right?
54:41
SPEAKER_00: But the science isn't necessarily settled on how much of that is in relation to the earth cycling or how much humans have had, you know, an effect on that.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: And what specifically do we do that does have an effect on that?
54:54
SPEAKER_00: And the problem is it's been politicized, and we'll never get to the right answer because people are profiting off of it, you know.
55:01
SPEAKER_00: People have been profiting off of green energy.
55:03
SPEAKER_00: Just it's disgusting how that whole situation has been taken advantage of, you know.
55:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, just it's just disgusting.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: But uh, and so and so it will never get solved, it'll never get fixed.
55:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, one guy's gonna publish a study that says one thing, and somebody else is gonna publish something that says something contradictory so they can keep on pushing their agendas and whatever.
55:22
SPEAKER_00: And the the rest of us, like in this case, the whole globe, right, is is stuck in the middle of this while you know, a bunch of people profit off of the whole situation one way or the other.
55:32
SPEAKER_00: And meanwhile, the rest of us are looking at you know, shitty air and shitty water and warming temperatures and shit like that, with absolutely nothing that's going to get done about it, you know, in the in the circumstances that we see.
55:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:45
SPEAKER_01: So you know, when we talk about the reframing these episodes around kind of solutions and just talking through solutions, you know, my suggestion, and this goes for every topic that we've talked about in this one and part one is stop stop get you know letting them fear monger the shit out of you, the the circus.
56:02
SPEAKER_01: Let stop letting the circus fear monger the shit out of you.
56:05
SPEAKER_01: Um work on fixing your own shit, right?
56:07
SPEAKER_01: Get a copy of my book if you don't know where to start, right?
56:10
SPEAKER_01: And then plug into the things in your community that pull at your heartstrings.
56:15
SPEAKER_01: Right?
56:15
SPEAKER_01: It's like if something, you know, whatever it is, maybe it's dogs in shelters that bother you, maybe it's children in foster homes, maybe it's the homeless population, whatever those things are, spend the energy that you would normally spend yelling into the void about all of the injustices that are happening out there and plug into your communities.
56:32
SPEAKER_01: If we could all just reset in that way, I think everyone would be really pleasantly surprised at how much change happens and how beautiful this world is that we live in.
56:40
SPEAKER_01: Because there's a lot of really great people and a lot of kindness and a lot of all of the things.
56:44
SPEAKER_01: If all we do is is uh give a platform and sensationalize the people that are screaming the loudest at one another because the people that profit are underneath the, you know, turning the fire up and turning the flame up on the pan.
56:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, open your eyes to that, people.
56:58
SPEAKER_01: That's that's literally what's going on there.
57:00
SPEAKER_01: So well, thank you for coming and sharing all of these things with me.
57:05
SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate being brave enough to.
57:08
SPEAKER_01: I know.
57:09
SPEAKER_01: And Cameron didn't even know.
57:10
SPEAKER_01: He walks in and he's like, I don't even know what we're talking about.
57:12
SPEAKER_01: And then I hit him with things like race and DEI and uh guns and religion and all of the things.
57:17
SPEAKER_00: So maybe next time we can do sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
57:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, I can't wait.
57:21
SPEAKER_01: That will be our next one.
57:23
SPEAKER_01: Um okay, so that's a wrap.
57:24
SPEAKER_01: If something from today's conversation hit home, challenged your perspective, or handed you a cheat code you didn't know you needed, we'd love to hear about it.
57:30
SPEAKER_01: Send us a DM or email us at ladies at Let's Get Naked Podcast.com.
57:35
SPEAKER_01: And if you believe in these conversations, um help us get them into more ears.
57:38
SPEAKER_01: Follow, share, rate, review, send an episode to someone you care about.
57:42
SPEAKER_01: Until next time.