Latest / The Diary of a CFO / How Operations Experience Makes You a Better CFO, with Donna Cohen, CFO of CarMax Auto Finance (Live in Atlanta)

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How Operations Experience Makes You a Better CFO, with Donna Cohen, CFO of CarMax Auto Finance (Live in Atlanta) · The Diary of a CFO

0:00
Welcome back to the Diary of a CFO podcast. Today's
0:03
episode is brought to you by Fispan. By embedding
0:06
banking services directly into ERP and accounting
0:08
software, Fispan streamlines financial workflows,
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reduces cost, minimizes manual errors, and enhances
0:15
efficiency for businesses of all sizes. To learn
0:19
more, visit www .fispan .com. We are live in
0:24
Atlanta and this is a Diary of a CFO podcast.
0:27
I'm your host Wassia Kamon. This is a limited
0:30
series where I'm sitting down in person with
0:32
CFOs and senior finance leaders right here in
0:35
Atlanta for real candid conversations about how
0:38
they build modern finance organizations, partner
0:41
with CEOs and boards, and lead through all of
0:44
it, hopefully without burning out. Today, I am
0:47
super delighted to have with me Donna Cohen. She
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is the chief financial officer at CarMax Auto
0:52
Finance. She was previously a board director
0:55
for CarMax Foundation and is a board -ready qualified
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financial expert with deep expertise in large
1:01
-scale strategic, organizational, and technological
1:05
transformation. Her career spans complex transactions
1:09
including M&A, spin -offs, corporate restructurings,
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as well as technology and automation initiatives
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to drive business efficiency. She currently oversees
1:20
a financial strategy for CarMax Auto Finance
1:23
Division, leading one of the largest players
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in the automotive finance industry forward. Welcome
1:29
to the show, Donna. Thanks for having me, Wassia.
1:31
Oh, I am so glad we finally able to do this.
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A lot of people may not know what happened in
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the background. So curious to hear how long have
1:40
you been in Atlanta? What brought you here? Yeah,
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I've been in Atlanta since right before Y2K.
1:44
Oh, wow. Yes. So I've been here for a long time,
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but I was actually born and raised in Georgia,
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right outside of Macon. And so I was born and
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raised in Georgia. which you don't see very often
1:53
here in Georgia. That's right. Went to college
1:56
in North Carolina and then moved to Ohio where
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I lived for six years and worked for a big four
2:02
accounting firm there. So got married there,
2:05
had my first daughter there, and then we decided
2:07
to move. back to the South. So my husband's from
2:10
South Carolina. I'm from Georgia. We figured
2:13
Atlanta was a good middle ground between the
2:15
families. So that's what brought me to Atlanta.
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Why Ohio in the first place? OK, good question.
2:22
Honestly, I wanted to change the pace. I wanted
2:23
to see the snow. I wanted different seasons because
2:26
I lived in the South my whole life. And I have
2:28
family in Ohio. So I thought, why not try? I
2:32
thought I'd do it for a couple years and next
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thing you know it was six. Time flies. But I
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shoveled enough snow and it was time to come
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back to my roots. Good. And so what drew you
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to finance and accounting in the first place?
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Yeah, good question. I was in high school and
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took an accounting course and found that I really
2:51
enjoyed it. So I decided to pursue accounting
2:54
in college. What I learned from some research
2:56
was that accounting is a profession that gives
2:58
you exposure to the business world and you kind
3:01
of have job security as well. So I thought, okay,
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I can do this. So that's what made me decide
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to pick accounting. Okay. Me too. It was my first
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accounting class. Initially. I wanted to be like
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a statistician. Oh yeah. You changed your mind
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on that? Yeah. So my alternative was. I actually
3:17
designed my own house when I was in high school.
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I was like, this is what I want my house to look
3:21
like. Um, with a semi -circle driveway in the
3:24
front, three car garage side entry. Yeah. I had
3:27
it all laid out, but I ultimately picked accounting.
3:30
Okay. Good. Good to know. So your career really
3:32
has so many transitions, right? You, you went
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from public accounting and so then you move into
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corporate accounting, finance in operations and
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now you're CFO. So what did each of these transitions
3:44
really taught you or any? great stories you had
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from each one of them. Yeah I think the biggest
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lesson I learned is that life is full of change
3:52
and evolution and so you've got to be able to
3:56
be resilient to navigate through those changes.
3:59
I mean it's also taught me not to be afraid to
4:01
try something different. So moving from public
4:05
accounting into my next role was FP &A. I had
4:08
no idea what I was doing, to be honest. But it
4:11
taught me a different lens of the business. And
4:13
then from there, I moved into financial reporting,
4:15
then corporate accounting. I've done a whole
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lot of different things. And then operations,
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as you mentioned as well, which I will tell you,
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my experience in operations is one that I would
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highly recommend for anyone who's in. accounting
4:27
and finance and has never actually been in an
4:29
operation, it just opens your eyes to the way
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the business actually works. And I was able to
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take all of my learnings in accounting and finance
4:37
and really connect the dots knowing how the sausage
4:40
is made. And it's made me a more effective CFO
4:43
as a result of that. Oh, wow. So you recommend
4:45
people like who wants to be in higher level of
4:49
finance to definitely try operations, try operations
4:52
or even other areas of the business. Just go
4:54
and do something different because it just gives
4:56
you a lens that you wouldn't have otherwise had.
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OK, so how do you feel like operations helped
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you like once you made the move into becoming
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a CFO? Yeah, I was able to better understand
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the numbers. OK, right. Because now I understand
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how the sausage is made. Right. And being able
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to understand what it takes to actually get work
5:16
done. What it takes, what it means when someone's
5:19
asking for additional resources, for example,
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now I can understand why there's a business need
5:24
versus if I hadn't had that experience, I might
5:26
just automatically say, no, you don't need those
5:28
resources. Yeah. You know, so it helps me to
5:30
make better decisions now in terms of how we
5:32
allocate capital. OK. And so what was that transition
5:36
like, like between operations to CFO? Because
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you were in finance, then you went in operations
5:42
where you like, buy, I want to finance again.
5:43
And then you had to come back to finance. Like,
5:45
how was that? Okay, interesting. So I had been
5:48
in, as I mentioned, accounting and finance my
5:49
whole career up until that point. And I had done,
5:52
I mainly specialized in publicly traded companies.
5:54
So I did a lot of 10 Qs, 10 Ks. And I had done,
5:57
I don't know, countless Qs and Ks. And I thought,
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okay, it's time for me to do something different.
6:02
And I talked to the president of the division
6:04
at that time and she said, you should try your
6:06
hat in operations. And so when the opportunity
6:09
presented itself, I took the leap. and moved
6:12
over into Ops. I had no idea what I was in for,
6:15
to be honest, but I asked for a challenge, and
6:18
so I rose to the occasion. Oh, wow. And so coming
6:20
back to finance, like, did you have to adjust,
6:23
like, probably how you view the world change?
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Oh, absolutely. You use a different part of your
6:28
brain, too. I realized that, like, as well. So
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in Ops, you're really focused on productivity.
6:34
You're focused on people. In finance, it's a
6:37
totally different lens. So I had to reacclimate
6:39
my brain. What I found is I've got the best of
6:43
both worlds now. I understand the finance perspective.
6:45
I understand the ops perspective. So I'm able
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to use both parts of my brain to be a more effective
6:49
CFO. Yeah, it did take some time to transition
6:52
back into finance. Like month end close, like
6:54
operations, you probably don't have to do all
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those things. I had no ties whatsoever to...
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a month -end cycle when I was in operations,
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and that was liberating. I bet, like you tell
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me when I'm like, oh, asking for a friend, like,
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how was it? Like, what was the typical day, week,
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or month in operations? Yeah, now, there's a
7:11
trade -off, right? I mean, every day was different,
7:13
and it was, it was fast -paced. Every single
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day was different. You had no idea what you're
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walking into. Like, it could be a production
7:19
issue, it could be an associate issue, or a multitude
7:22
of those items. Especially when you're running
7:24
a department with, you know, hundreds of employees,
7:27
there's all sorts of things that can go wrong
7:28
every single day. and you got technology as well
7:30
that can go wrong, and vendor relationships that
7:33
can go wrong. So there was always some sort of
7:36
fire to deal with from week to week, day to day,
7:38
but that's what kept things interesting. Okay,
7:40
and so I'm curious to hear what your relationship
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was like with finance when you were at operations.
7:45
Yeah, it was really good. Yeah, it was good,
7:48
and that's the beauty of, one, seeing different
7:52
parts of the organization is that you can be
7:54
that bridge. So I was able to bridge understandings
7:58
between finance and operations because I had
8:00
seen both sides of the house. Yeah, so you were
8:02
not like, I hate these people, I run away from
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these people. You were like the one person everybody
8:06
wanted to go to. Yeah, you could make the connection,
8:09
right? Uh -huh. So yeah. Oh, that is so cool,
8:11
because I've heard a lot of people saying, you
8:14
know, as much as you can in your career, especially
8:15
earlier, do rotations programs if you can. And
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I'm curious to hear, like in one of those transitions,
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what do you feel like was the hardest transition?
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Was it coming from public accounting to corporate
8:29
FPNA? Or was it from operations to becoming CFO?
8:33
I'm curious to hear what would you say was the
8:35
hardest one and how did you navigate? Yeah, so.
8:37
My most difficult transition just thinking about
8:40
my whole career span was probably when I worked
8:43
in the hotel industry. So I worked for an owner
8:46
operator of hotels and I was the corporate controller
8:49
there and the company was going through some
8:52
difficult financial times and we had to make
8:55
some decisions about how are we going to sustain
8:57
the business. So we looked at strategic alternatives
9:00
and ultimately decided to take the company private.
9:03
So we found a private equity firm to buy the
9:06
company. And that was a difficult transition.
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It was difficult from a number of perspectives.
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Number one, I worked a ton of hours to make that
9:12
happen. But then number two, we had to deal with
9:16
transitioning the way the business operated because
9:19
the PE firm had a different lens or a different
9:22
view of how the company needed to operate. So
9:25
we had to, for example, outsource all of the
9:28
management of the hotels to third party management
9:30
companies. So with that came also restructuring
9:33
some of our lending agreements, but then most
9:36
importantly had to deal with some downsizing
9:39
of staff. So that was probably my most difficult
9:42
transition of all. Wow. So a lot of work, a lot
9:45
of transition just in terms of how the business
9:47
operates, but then most importantly the people
9:49
aspect. Yeah, the people aspect is the has been
9:53
also the hardest for me in my career because
9:55
I was also part of a company that had to let
9:57
go of almost half of a business unit. And being
10:00
that finance person and it was back when we're
10:03
all in person. So like I knew the people that
10:07
were on the list. I couldn't sleep at night.
10:11
Yeah. Like, how did you... I'm curious to hear,
10:14
like, what was your experience like, and how
10:17
maybe changed how you lead today. Yeah, this
10:20
is a good question. Honestly, it had a profound
10:22
impact on how I viewed the business world. And
10:26
at that point in time, I made the decision that
10:28
I didn't want to work for this company anymore.
10:30
Because I didn't feel like the P .E. firm that
10:33
acquired the company really valued employees.
10:36
And to me, like, the world doesn't work without
10:38
good employees. And the culture was just... was
10:41
ruined. So at that point, I had lost confidence
10:43
in corporate America and I decided I was going
10:46
to retire from corporate. And then I was going
10:50
to probably transition into the nonprofit world.
10:52
That's kind of what I had in my head. So after
10:55
I got everything through the transition, I took
10:57
my contract and negotiated an exit strategy and
11:01
called it my liberation day. And left and thought
11:05
again, I was done with corporate for years. And
11:07
so I volunteered with my girls. They went to
11:10
school at a small Christian school at the time
11:12
and they were working on one just kind of maturing.
11:15
and also getting accredited. So I volunteered
11:18
there and helped them get accredited. And once
11:21
we kind of crossed that threshold, I thought,
11:23
okay, now I'll go and look for that next nonprofit
11:26
opportunity. And then I got a call from a recruiter
11:28
about this great company that I honestly didn't
11:32
believe the words that were coming out of their
11:34
mouths because again, I had that experience,
11:36
but found out that it was the truth. It was really
11:39
a good company to work for, great culture. really
11:41
aligned with my values, so decided to come and
11:44
work at CarMax and have been here now for almost
11:46
14 years. Wow. So what was it like coming back
11:50
to the corporate world? Because I'm always like,
11:52
I know if I no longer work, it'll be hard for
11:55
me to, you won't see me back. Yeah. Yeah. Probably.
11:59
So curious to hear what was that transition like?
12:02
It actually wasn't bad at all. I mean, I felt
12:04
like I was coming back home almost. It was very
12:06
interesting. Like I said, the culture is second
12:09
to none. It's a great place to work for like
12:11
decades in a row, recognized by fortune. And
12:14
yeah, so it just felt like all of the skills
12:17
that I had acquired, my people skills and leadership
12:19
skills as well, in addition to the way that I
12:22
value employees, like it felt like the marriage
12:25
that I was looking for. Your happy place. Yeah.
12:28
Now curiously here. Because leading to change
12:31
or anything at this level of a company, a company
12:34
that size, is not always easy. Like people often
12:38
think, oh you just ask this and this happens.
12:40
You know how the sausage is made. So let's take
12:42
a quick break right here. And I want to take
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-S -P -A -N .com. And let's get back to this
13:35
episode with Donna. So curious to hear what strategies,
13:38
what are your go -to moves when you're trying
13:40
to make change stick in such a large organization?
13:44
Yeah. I mean, I think it starts with effective
13:47
relationships. You got to have strong relationships
13:49
with people so that you can get the buy -in.
13:52
but then also it's the communication. So explaining
13:55
the why behind the decision that's being made
13:58
and tying it to the vision, where are we going
14:01
and how you fit into it. That's what motivates
14:03
people and gets them on board with the change.
14:06
Now you are always going to have naysayers, but
14:09
if you can find those key people in the organization
14:12
that can be your champions and help shepherd
14:14
that change through. That's a winning proposition.
14:17
OK. So having a good communication plan, finding
14:20
your champions to share your message and then
14:23
make it happen. That's right. Now, thinking about
14:26
technology, because a lot of time when we think
14:28
about change, we think implementing a new tool.
14:31
But it's more than that. There's change leadership,
14:34
change management, digital transformation. How
14:37
do you go about it and helping people see the
14:40
light at the end of the tunnel? Because I feel
14:42
like at some point, it was like change fatigue.
14:44
We've done this, we changed this, we're tired.
14:47
How do you manage that? Yeah, it's hard, right?
14:50
I mean, people don't like you to move their cheese.
14:52
Yes. Let's keep it real. But as we talked about
14:55
earlier, like change is inevitable. If you stay
14:58
stagnant, you're already behind. And, you know,
15:01
there are a lot of companies that have failed
15:02
because they didn't move when they needed to.
15:05
So at the end of the day, you have to explain
15:07
that to people. I was very honest with my associates
15:09
about. how we can't stand still and what the
15:11
repercussions are if we do as an organization.
15:14
So that's number one is really you got to explain
15:17
to people the reason behind the change. Why do
15:20
we need to make a change? And then you've got
15:23
to explain to them how important they are to
15:26
making the change happen. So it's not just I
15:29
need this done. It's like I need you to do this
15:31
and here's why you're so important to our success.
15:34
Nice. Now, when you think about AI, I realize
15:37
a lot of people could be skeptical about bringing
15:40
AI into organizations. That's something you've
15:43
been really at the forefront. So curious to hear
15:44
your experience there as well. Yeah, it's scary
15:47
for people, especially people who aren't necessarily
15:50
technology leaning. Right. And I remember meeting
15:55
with some associates probably about six months
15:57
ago, and I asked them to raise their hands if
15:59
they used AI at home. Like, have you used it?
16:02
And there were handful of people that had never
16:05
even used ChatGBT or anything at home even. And
16:09
so I encouraged them to just try it. Like, try
16:12
it to make a recipe. Tell ChatGBT what ingredients
16:15
you have in your refrigerator, in your pantry,
16:18
and that you need a recipe, and it'll do it for
16:21
you. Like, just give them some things they can
16:22
do just to get familiar with it. I think you
16:24
gotta take baby steps with some people. Like,
16:26
you gotta meet people where they are, essentially.
16:28
So, baby steps, meet people where they are, and
16:31
then help them understand how it can be their
16:33
assistant as opposed to a replacement. Oh, that's
16:36
a nice one. But it's so hard to do, though. I
16:39
feel like I hear that a lot that, you know, it's
16:43
the people who use AI, you know, but we humans.
16:46
We are. But let me tell you something. I've seen
16:49
a lot of technology. I've done a lot of implementations
16:52
over my career. And while AI is a step function
16:55
change in how we operate, at the end of the day,
16:59
you still need humans in the loop. AI can't do
17:01
it by itself. I mean, you probably know from
17:03
your own experience, you can use those models
17:05
and it'll spit out something that's very eloquent,
17:07
but it's wrong. So at the end of the day, and
17:10
that's another thing that I've told people is
17:12
like, you can use AI as your assistant, but ultimately
17:14
that work product is yours. So you need to validate
17:16
and make sure that it's accurate. And I think
17:17
that also helps to make people realize, okay,
17:20
this is my assistant. It's not replacing me.
17:22
Mm -hmm. I really like how you phrased it because
17:26
yeah, it has to be your assistant because I always
17:28
feel like people will always need an accountant
17:30
to be accountable for something because you won't
17:32
be able to say, hey, the model did it. It's not
17:34
me. Like AI did it. I don't feel like it will
17:37
fly. No, it will not. It will not because it's
17:39
your work product. It is. It is. And you kind
17:41
of have to review it like just like you review
17:43
a junior, you know. Doing their work like you
17:47
didn't just send it to the board, right? That's
17:48
right So what are some of the things that you
17:51
think could be easy baby steps within a finance
17:54
function to bring in AI? Yeah, so we've been
17:57
using it for email Okay, like hey, let's use
18:00
it to sort a email or prioritize email. Let's
18:04
also use it to Identify things that need top
18:08
priority, right? Let's use it to to summarize
18:14
results So we use it to summarize results. We
18:17
also use a tool that has really streamlined the
18:20
way that we reconcile accounts in the core accounting
18:24
function so that they can focus on researching
18:28
those reconciling items as opposed to all of
18:30
the steps that it takes to get to the point of
18:33
reconciliation. Yeah, like that part of AI, like
18:36
how can we automate the things that we don't
18:38
like? That's right. That's why I need an assistant.
18:41
I still need AI to cook for me, but it hasn't
18:44
happened yet. Not yet. Not yet. So when you think
18:47
about your role at your organization, only prior
18:49
organization, what was one project, the one thing
18:52
you did that you were so proud of? Gosh, there
18:54
are a lot of things I'm proud of. A lot of things
18:57
that I've messed up as well. Oh, which one? Where
19:00
do you want to go? I mean, I can go all the way
19:03
back to the beginning of my career when I was
19:05
at a public accounting firm, and I had been with
19:08
the firm for one year. And this partner who was
19:11
a mentor to me picked me up and said, I need
19:13
you to run this engagement. I've been with the
19:16
company for a year. I was like, what does that
19:17
even mean? Yeah, right. I don't know. But she
19:20
was like, you can do it. I just need you. I need
19:22
you to run this engagement. It was a brand new
19:24
engagement for us as well. So I had no idea what
19:26
I was doing. There is no prior papers. I had
19:28
no idea. I royally bombed that thing. But I learned
19:32
a lot. And I will never forget, she wrote me
19:35
this beautiful letter and she talked about how
19:38
she didn't expect perfection because again, new
19:41
engagement. one year associate. But she talked
19:45
about all the attributes, the things I did well,
19:47
the things that I brought to the table. And it
19:49
really made me realize that it's not about perfection,
19:52
it's about growth. And that's really had an impact
19:56
on how I lead as well. Like she really impacted
19:59
my leadership vision and the way that I, the
20:01
way that I conduct myself. Wow, nice. Speaking
20:04
of leadership, it's, you know, when you think
20:05
about our traditional accounting and finance
20:08
curriculum, there's nothing much about leadership
20:10
and people skills kind of thing. And then you
20:14
get to a certain point of your career. It's all
20:16
about. It's all about it. your people and relationship
20:20
skills. So what are some of the things that helped
20:22
you? Because I feel like we all learn it the
20:23
hard way, but you know, anything you may want
20:25
to share. Yeah, I learned it the hard way, too.
20:27
But I think it's important to find good mentors.
20:29
Like when you see somebody that's a good leader,
20:32
you need to reach out to them and ask them for
20:33
help and ask them, like, how do you do that?
20:35
What makes you a good leader? And take that advice
20:38
and go with it. Right. I think having that village
20:40
of people that you can lean on for support is
20:43
so important. And honestly, that's better to
20:46
me in some cases than going to conference or
20:49
taking a course like hearing it directly from
20:51
somebody that you can ask questions and tailor
20:54
it to meet your needs individually is the most
20:57
powerful way to learn in my opinion. Yeah because
20:59
I've read books I've you know you try all the
21:02
courses but definitely what I've the things I
21:05
remember that stayed the most with me like you
21:07
said is mm -hmm like when somebody talked about
21:10
the experience and how they did how they went
21:13
left instead of going right is in those moments.
21:16
But I'm curious to hear now that so many people
21:18
are working remotely versus in person, do you
21:20
feel like we are missing some of that? Because
21:22
I learned a lot in my career in those in -person
21:25
moments. So now I'm thinking about people not
21:28
coming through when it's all remote. What do
21:30
you think? Yeah, I mean, I think. Number one,
21:33
I think that there's value in having the ability,
21:36
the flexibility to work remotely. No doubt about
21:39
it. I mean, I think about when I was raising
21:40
my children, it would have been nice to have
21:43
that flexibility. I had a lot of stress on me
21:45
trying to deal with the Atlanta traffic and carrying
21:47
that full career workload as well. But to answer
21:51
your question directly, I do think that you do
21:54
lose some of that. what you're describing, when
21:56
you're not able to to interact with people face
21:59
to face, you lose some of the ability to observe
22:02
those behaviors. Yes. And adapt to some of those
22:05
behaviors. Also, just relationship building.
22:08
It's hard to build relationships on a screen.
22:09
It's not impossible, but it just takes more effort.
22:12
So I would say for people who work remotely,
22:14
you just have to invest more in building those
22:17
relationships than you would if you naturally
22:20
had those interactions in a hybrid or in person
22:23
environment. I agree. I agree. Because I feel
22:26
like even seeing somebody once, like in person,
22:28
I'm like, oh, I know Donna better because she
22:30
sits right here. Then we can be virtual all year
22:33
long. We're fine. Right. So I do agree that it
22:36
does make a difference. And I would have appreciated
22:38
as well the flexibility when my kids were in
22:41
diapers and I had to rush to the daycare before
22:44
they closed on me. I did pay a lot of late fees.
22:47
Yes. When you're sitting behind an accident or
22:49
whatever and you can't get there on time. Yes.
22:52
You're stressed out. It is. So becoming an executive
22:55
at this level, you probably had to. give up a
22:58
few things along the way or how to go through
23:01
things that people may not realize things that
23:03
are tough in that journey. Mind sharing any of
23:06
them that probably shaped how you are now? Yeah.
23:09
I mean, I will tell you, like when the girls
23:11
were actively involved in soccer and cheer and
23:14
everything else and you got the full time job
23:17
and the traffic and all of that and all of the
23:19
transformation that we talked about earlier on
23:21
top of just the regular nine to five work. Yeah.
23:24
I reached a breaking point. Like I realized that
23:26
I was stretched. my limit. So I was giving to
23:29
work. I was giving to the kids. I was giving
23:31
what was left over to my husband, who thank you
23:34
so much for putting up with me. And then I had
23:37
nothing left for myself. And it took a while
23:40
to realize that I was empty, and I needed help.
23:42
So I asked him for support. We sat down. He was
23:45
like, let's figure this out. So we sat down.
23:47
I came up with a plan on how we were going to
23:48
divide responsibilities in a way that I was able
23:51
to be better to myself as well as everybody else,
23:54
all of my stakeholders, including myself. Wow.
23:58
I'll pause right here because... What you said,
24:01
I didn't realize that I was empty. I came to
24:04
that realization just last December. Oh, yeah.
24:07
And I literally booked an hotel room, just me,
24:10
for three days. I left husband, kids at home,
24:12
like, OK, what happened to you guys right now?
24:15
I just need me. I just need me. And it is so
24:17
true. We go, go, go, go, go, and we don't realize
24:20
we're running on an empty tank. So curious to
24:23
hear for you, what kind of habits or routines
24:26
do you have now? Because now your kids are older.
24:28
But work is still the work. Do you have checkpoints,
24:31
dates with yourself? Asking for a friend, of
24:33
course. Yes. There's some things that I have
24:35
to have. I have to have my nails done every three
24:39
weeks. I have to have my hair done. every two
24:42
weeks. I have to have my massage at least once
24:46
every two months, but preferably once a month
24:47
if it'll work out. I have to have time with my
24:49
friends. Like I'm going to brunch tomorrow. Like
24:52
those are things that are non -negotiable to
24:53
keep me sane and keep my tank from being empty.
24:57
And then also there's date night. Like, I had
24:59
to have my date night. Oh, that is so cool. I
25:01
am so using it. Because I do my massage once
25:03
a month. My nails, you never know. My hair, oh
25:08
well. But definitely want to be like you when
25:11
I grow up. So thank you so much for sharing.
25:14
Couple more questions for you. So when you look
25:17
back at your own career, what would you say are
25:20
some of the things that helped you most in your
25:22
executive journey? There's a lot. There's a lot.
25:26
So I will start with something that we talked
25:29
about previously, which is having a support system.
25:33
So a network of people that you can lean on for
25:36
advice and input within your organization, but
25:39
then also outside of your organization. So that's
25:42
important. Also, I mean, my relationship with
25:44
my spouse is just super important to me. Like,
25:47
that's the bedrock of who I am. And without that
25:51
relationship, the other stuff doesn't work. I
25:57
feel like I have to say the same thing. So honey,
25:59
yes. Yeah, but it's those relationships that
26:04
matter. And I will tell you, as an introvert,
26:06
it took me a while to realize that I still needed
26:09
relationships, but I just don't need to be every
26:12
single day connected to those relationships.
26:15
That's what I had to realize. But yeah, relationships
26:18
are super important to creating what I need to
26:21
be successful as a leader. Now, you mentioned
26:24
being an introvert. Most of the CFOs I've interviewed
26:27
are all introverts. I'm one of the few, like,
26:30
black sheep in the group being an extrovert.
26:32
And it's interesting how a lot of people think
26:34
that being an extrovert gives you an edge in
26:37
terms of communication, but I think it's the
26:39
other way around. because you listen more than
26:41
probably I do. So what would you say to the people
26:44
who think that being an introvert is not an advantage?
26:47
Because I really think it is. You can use it
26:50
as a competitive advantage in your career. So
26:52
I got some really good advice from an executive
26:54
coach once when I was going through a development
26:56
program. And he said to me, because here's my
26:59
pet peeve. My pet peeve is being in a room full
27:01
of people and You may be familiar with this,
27:04
but you've got the one or two people that dominate
27:06
the conversation. And so you're just sitting
27:08
there as an introvert going, well, I've got nothing
27:10
else to contribute because you've already said
27:12
what I was going to say. But what he said was
27:15
you have to make your voice heard. So it can
27:17
be a matter of you just recapping what you heard
27:21
and making sure that everybody's on board. So
27:23
seeking that consensus. Or you can have an accountability
27:26
partner that you lean on to make sure that your
27:29
voice is heard. So maybe they bring you into
27:31
the conversation. So you do that ahead of time.
27:34
But you've got to make your voice heard. And
27:36
the other thing is that introverts, like you
27:38
just said, are good listeners, usually. So listening
27:41
is a form of communication. In fact, it's a powerful
27:44
form of communication. So use those listening
27:47
skills to your advantage to then understand where
27:49
people are coming from so that you can help to
27:52
influence the outcomes. Wow, love it. Because
27:55
that influencing to me is everything, right?
27:57
Because you can have the biggest ideas, all that,
28:00
but getting people to move is what I realize
28:03
has been the hardest thing in the role. So how
28:06
do you get people that don't report to you to
28:08
do what you need them to do? That's like the
28:11
toughest thing ever, and it's like 90 % of my
28:13
job. I think it comes down to what we just talked
28:16
about, to be honest with you, it's about understanding
28:18
where somebody's coming from. Because you can't
28:20
influence somebody if they are all the way left
28:23
and you want them to go right and you aren't
28:26
meeting them where they are, right? So it's about
28:28
understanding where that person is and then asking
28:31
the right questions to seek to understand how
28:34
you can get them where you want them to be. Sometimes
28:36
it's also about planting seeds. Like you plant
28:39
seeds early. Plant seeds early and then like,
28:42
I don't know, three, four months later, you hear
28:43
this idea that sounds a lot like what you planted
28:46
three, four months ago. Now you have to be okay
28:48
with things not, with you not getting credit
28:50
for things. I'm not one of those people that
28:51
cares about the credit as much. You have to be
28:53
comfortable with that, but that also is an effective
28:55
tool. Planting seeds, I do that at home with
28:58
my husband. I need to do it more at work. So
29:02
what would you say is one truth about your career
29:04
that you rarely say out loud? That's a good question.
29:08
It's when I've noodled. I had no idea that I
29:13
was capable of being the CFO of a company and
29:17
wasn't actively pursuing it. It kind of fell
29:20
on my lap, just like every other opportunity
29:22
I've had. The other thing I don't necessarily
29:24
say out loud is the way I was able to accomplish
29:27
that is because of my faith in God. Amen. Wow.
29:31
Can't do it by myself, but with Him I can. And
29:36
now that you are in DC, what What's some of your
29:39
proudest moment? How do you stay grounded? Because
29:42
it feels surreal, especially when it happened
29:45
the way it happened for you. Because so many
29:47
people, it's like, oh, I pursue this, I pursue
29:49
this. But for you, it's like, I didn't even see
29:51
it coming. But you didn't even realize, like
29:53
you said, you did public accounting, you did
29:55
FP &A. You did all the things, really, that make
29:59
up a strong CFO. didn't even know it. You didn't
30:02
even know it. Like everything was working for
30:04
your good in the in the background for that moment.
30:07
So now that you're in the seat and you're doing
30:08
so great in the seat, when you look like, how
30:11
does it feel? How do you stay grounded? Like,
30:13
how do you not float in the? I think is having
30:15
really good parents that keep you humble. And
30:18
that's just who I am as a person, honestly. And
30:21
I get my value out of seeing other people grow
30:23
and develop. So that's I think that's the other
30:25
thing that makes me such an effective leader
30:27
is I pour into. the next generation of leaders
30:30
because I want to see them grow and grow beyond
30:32
even what I'm capable of doing. That's what good
30:35
looks like to me. Nice, nice and that's such
30:38
a great definition of success and that's what
30:40
I'm hoping to do with this podcast is having
30:42
people learn alongside me because you know you
30:45
cannot talk to thousands of people but right
30:47
here they'll be learning that from you as well
30:49
so I'm incredibly grateful for you to share that
30:52
with me and with the rest of us. Thank you. Good
30:55
to be here. OK, so a couple more questions. So
30:58
if you could change one thing about being here
31:00
in Atlanta and the finance community here in
31:02
Atlanta, how we support finance leaders, hopefully.
31:05
What would you say? You know, I'm not equipped
31:08
to answer that question, and I'll tell you why.
31:10
Remember how I said I was an introvert? So you
31:11
don't go to any events? I'm the one that's not
31:15
plugged in like I need to be. Now, that's something
31:17
I'm planning to change. But yeah, I think it's
31:20
more of a me thing than I can speak to for the
31:23
community. I'm an extrovert and I still don't
31:26
go to a lot of those events. Really? Networking
31:29
is awkward, even though I'm an extrovert. It's
31:32
still awkward, like to be and do the little chit
31:34
chat. I don't know. Okay, well see, it's good
31:37
to hear that from an introvert's perspective.
31:40
It's good to hear that an extrovert feels that
31:41
way too. Yeah, so I, for example, a couple months
31:44
ago now, I went to the Las Vegas conference with
31:47
the AICPA. Okay. After day two, I was, I want
31:50
to go home. I want to be in front of a spreadsheet.
31:52
And I'm like, man, I'm an extrovert, but it's
31:55
a lot. And I don't know if it's because the job
31:57
is a lot or I'm just getting old. Maybe you're
32:02
just evolving. Yeah, maybe, maybe I want to say
32:05
age. Okay. Okay. Last question. Curious to hear
32:10
what's your favorite thing to do here in Atlanta
32:13
outside of work? I'm a foodie, so I like to eat.
32:16
Me too! Okay. Now, I am a creature of habit,
32:20
so you won't see me venturing out to new restaurants
32:23
even though I plan to. I always just end up,
32:26
like, going back to... Ordering the same thing
32:27
at the same place? Okay, what are your go -to
32:29
places? That's right. So, for an impromptu, it's
32:34
South City Kitchen. There's one near my house
32:37
and so we can usually drop in and get in there
32:40
as long as we get there before, you know, the
32:42
seven, eight o 'clock rush. But I love CNS. So
32:46
have you ever been to CNS? It's a seafood. steak
32:48
restaurant. There's one in Gallery. I think there's
32:51
one in Sandy Springs and maybe somewhere else.
32:53
I love CNS. That's one of my favorite. What do
32:56
you usually order there? Anything with seafood
32:58
is like I'm hooked. Because I'm a big juicy crab
33:00
person. I don't know if you've heard of the juicy
33:02
crab. Oh, Lord, don't do it. I used to over and
33:06
doze there. But yeah, I typically will do like
33:10
some sort of seafood there because that's my
33:12
thing. I'm not really big into steak. OK, OK.
33:15
But any dish I've had there has been amazing.
33:17
I've been keeping notes for food, because yeah,
33:22
food and Netflix are my, oh. Those are your go
33:25
-tos. Yes, when I need to unwind. And on Netflix
33:28
is usually the science fiction show, because
33:30
I don't want any, you know, reality show. Like
33:33
the reality is not what I want to see. I want
33:35
like the future, people flying and superheroes.
33:39
So anything else you would like to share with
33:42
the audience? Like when you, especially when
33:43
you look back at your career. Being in Atlanta
33:45
and all the great things you achieve, what would
33:47
be one advice you would give? My advice is just
33:49
to be open for the possibilities. That's the
33:52
advice I give. OK. Thank you so much for sharing.
33:55
Thanks for having me. I appreciate you having
33:57
me on the show. We definitely need to literally
33:59
connect after this for food. Thank you. And that's
34:03
it for today's episode of the Diary of a CFO
34:06
live in Atlanta. There's something about doing
34:09
this in person that you can feel from this side
34:11
of the mic. If it felt like on your stew, subscribe
34:14
and send it to someone who may need it. As always,
34:17
if you have any questions, make sure to send
34:20
me an email and ask at thediaryofacfo .com or
34:23
visit thediaryofacfo .com. for more resources
34:26
about how you can take your career to the next
34:28
level. I'll see you in the next one.