Latest / Whisky Unfinished / Hiring Lessons From a Legend (From Whisky to Luxury Industries) - Guarav Glen More - Admark Asia President

Transcript

Hiring Lessons From a Legend (From Whisky to Luxury Industries) - Guarav Glen More - Admark Asia President · Whisky Unfinished

• 0:00
  You have been dealing with recruitment, placements, headhunting for most of your life with luxury companies like Apple, LVMH, Gucci.
• 0:09
  How are they supposed to find the right person?
• 0:11
  There's never a good candidate.
• 0:12
  It is about finding the right candidate for the company.
• 0:15
  I never start talking about the salary or the title or the company.
• 0:18
  It's all about hooking the person up to a story.
• 0:21
  And if you're able to attract people to the story, half your job is done.
• 0:25
  We'll start up here with a 27-year-old Aaron.
• 0:30
  Now with technology and AI, I don't think the job has changed.
• 0:33
  The skills required to do the job has changed.
• 0:36
  Ichiro Malt, the Joker.
• 0:38
  If you come out and tell me, you know, I really want to be in luxury, then my first thing I'll tell you is, okay, go work in the store for six months.
• 0:44
  This is a relatively new release from the Glendronic called Ode to the Dark.
• 0:47
  How are you using AI in your company?
• 0:51
  If you're trying to hire 500 engineers and you post a job and you get a thousand resumes, then AI can filter out those resumes and come up with the call background.
• 1:00
  But if I'm looking for a CEO for a company, I can't use AI.
• 1:03
  It's a 40-year-old Edrington blend.
• 1:05
  Everything was about manufacturing.
• 1:07
  Now the younger generation is about AI.
• 1:09
  What's next?
• 1:10
  Hopefully there'll still be whisky we can drink.
• 1:11
  That's all I really care about.
• 1:14
  Hey guys, Rakesh here, the whisky Chief.
• 1:16
  Firstly, thank you so much for watching this.
• 1:18
  I really appreciate it.
• 1:19
  If you could like and subscribe below, it really helps us bring the best whiskies to you and keep doing this show the best we can.
• 1:25
  Thanks.
• 1:26
  Welcome to whisky Unfinished, where the whisky's never done and neither is the conversation.
• 1:31
  Today we have my good friend, Gaurav Moore.
• 1:33
  We've known each other for too long, 26 years now, right?
• 1:39
  And Gaurav has been in the recruitment, headhunting business for a long time, right?
• 1:46
  And since 2008, your company, AdMart, you've placed over 2000 candidates, mostly in the luxury sector.
• 1:54
  So we're gonna dive into some of that.
• 1:56
  We'll be focusing today's episode on hiring, recruiting, what it's like from the company's perspective, what do you need as a candidate if you're looking for a new job, how AI's changing, maybe some of that.
• 2:07
  So we'll get into all of that, but first things first, let's have a whisky because that's what the show's all about.
• 2:18
  So we're starting today.
• 2:20
  We'll start up here with a 27-year-old Aaron.
• 2:23
  This is a very special whisky to me because it was a gift from a good friend.
• 2:30
  mine who actually bought a cask of Aaron back from when they first started the distillery. I think they started in like 1994, 1995. So this is like from one of the first, it was within the first year that the whisky distillery started. He bought a cask early on and then he bottled it at 27 year old. So you can't really buy this whisky anywhere. This is a single cask. So I know usually you're into your sherry, sherry style whiskies. We're going to get into heavier sherry kind of a little bit later on. This is a little bit on the lighter side, but for me, I just love the nose of this whisky. It's very like honey, pineapple, like those kinds of like dried sweet fruits, which I really, really love. So this is at 46.4% alcohol. So we're going to taste, we'll do one sip, no water.
• 3:25
  And then I'm going to add a couple of drops. Feel free if you want to. Really get that very honey flavor in. Yeah. There's a little bit of chocolatey at the end. Yeah, I get that too on the finish, right? So it's a pretty punchy whisky. It's also our first whisky. So we're kind of getting into it a little bit, but I think it's gorgeous. Like 27 years old, tons of flavor, really comes through really quite well balanced. I get the chocolate notes on the end as well, but not too bitter. It's just a lot of sweetness for me, which I really, really like kind of that honeysuckle pineapple. So we're going to rate the whisky one out of 10, one being utter shite, as they say in Scotland, and 10 being Scottish freedom from Braveheart. So I'm going to give that a solid 8.2. I think that's my rating. We're starting off strong. What's your rating?
• 4:18
  Can I try all and rate it? You can, but if you had to try right now, where do you think this?
• 4:23
  We're going to try to do them individually, and then you can change your mind at the end.
• 4:26
  I would go eight. Eight. Solid eight. So we're starting off with a solid eight. So that's good.
• 4:32
  Yeah. So I would look at it. This is something I would buy a few bottles of if I could.
• 4:38
  Aaron, I think, is doing really, really great stuff. I actually don't know exactly what they have out on the market right now. Not this exact style. This isn't quite exactly what Aaron's making, but it gives you a sense of kind of what the distilleries. Where's the distillery in Scotland? Which part is it? It is in Speyside. So yeah, just an absolute beautiful whisky.
• 4:59
  All right.
• 5:00
  Let's kick off.
• 5:01
  You have been dealing with people, basically recruitment, placements, headhunting for most of your life, really, right? Most of the career.
• 5:11
  What do you tell in today's world?
• 5:13
  What do you like when you sit down with an employer and you mostly deal with luxury companies, everything from high end, like Apple, et cetera, to LVMH, to the Gucci, et cetera, the top brands.
• 5:25
  When you sit down with them and they're telling you about a new position, what do you tell them is important about the process?
• 5:33
  How did they get a good candidate?
• 5:36
  How are they supposed to find the right person?
• 5:37
  What advice do you give them?
• 5:38
  So I always tell them there's never a good candidate.
• 5:41
  It is about finding the right candidate for the company, because a good candidate for one company can be a bad candidate for the other company.
• 5:48
  So it's always about first and defining the culture of the company, defining what the scope is, what they're looking for, and what are the short term and long term and midterm goals for this job that they're looking to hire.
• 6:00
  So I think each company needs to be very clear, defined on that objective before they actually go out in the market to look for someone.
• 6:08
  And do you feel that companies have that information when you talk to them?
• 6:12
  Or is that what you guys do and help them figure that out a little bit?
• 6:16
  Like, I think most companies do.
• 6:19
  It depends on the roles for, yes, for senior executive roles.
• 6:22
  Yes, they do.
• 6:23
  But I would say for junior roles, most companies are usually just plug and play because they're like, oh, we had someone leave.
• 6:28
  We just need to fill that role.
• 6:29
  Right. Right.
• 6:30
  And that's it.
• 6:31
  But when you're talking about senior leadership, especially if it's a new role that they're creating in the company, what's the purpose of creating this role?
• 6:37
  What's the backstory?
• 6:39
  Why this role has been created and everything?
• 6:41
  Then there has to be a story behind that to be able to go and attract the right talent.
• 6:45
  Yeah. So it all starts with what the role objectives are, what the culture is of the company.
• 6:50
  Are they usually pretty clear with that in terms of what they're looking for?
• 6:54
  Yeah, I would say they are.
• 6:55
  I think most companies are very clear with what they're looking for.
• 6:59
  At the same time, it also depends on what you're looking for is always not there in the market.
• 7:04
  So when you start the search and you start figuring out what is actual reality versus actual, then you have to basically then tweak it accordingly.
• 7:13
  Is that usually for new roles?
• 7:15
  Because obviously if somebody just left the position, right, then they've had that position before and they're usually taking a lot of time to change that position or change the requirements.
• 7:25
  Or how does that work?
• 7:26
  So I don't think right now, OK, I would say now it's technology.
• 7:30
  and AI, I don't think the job has changed.
• 7:33
  The skills required to do the job has changed.
• 7:36
  Okay, in what way?
• 7:37
  So, let's say 10 years ago, if a company was looking for a CMO, Chief Marketing Officer, the skill sets that they were looking in that person 10 years ago is very different from what they're looking right now.
• 7:49
  Probably even two years ago.
• 7:50
  Yeah.
• 7:51
  Or even one year ago.
• 7:53
  Five years ago, if you look at it, right?
• 7:55
  10 years ago, no one talked about digital, e-comm, and everything.
• 7:59
  Today, now, instead of digital, now it's all become about AI, it's become about data and everything.
• 8:05
  So, the skill sets, the title remains the same, but the skill sets required for the job has changed.
• 8:11
  So, now companies are trying to identify the unicorns, what do you call it?
• 8:16
  Okay, what does that mean?
• 8:17
  That means, you know, they're trying to find the young, upcoming talent who are very much about AI and data and everything.
• 8:25
  At the same time, some of the young talent do not want to go into traditional roles.
• 8:29
  They want to do something that is different and unique and more looking at 10 years from now is where I can be with what the skill sets I'm looking at.
• 8:41
  Everyone talks about AI, so AI is the big buzzword right now, so everyone's talking about that and I think a lot of the younger talent is more looking at AI, so it's okay.
• 8:50
  Companies want to hire those people, but do they have the right culture, the right environment for those young generation to thrive and do well in that company?
• 8:58
  In what you're seeing in the luxury industry, do they?
• 9:01
  I mean, I think of the luxury industry as massive, right?
• 9:03
  Like we're talking about huge brands, right?
• 9:06
  Gucci, LVMH, et cetera.
• 9:09
  These are billions and billions of dollars of companies.
• 9:12
  They've been around usually decades or even hundreds of years, right?
• 9:15
  Usually they're European, French, et cetera.
• 9:17
  Like in my perspective, when I think about those companies, I don't really think of them as like entrepreneurial, changing fast, having a fun environment for young people or do they?
• 9:28
  Am I wrong?
• 9:29
  Do they have that?
• 9:30
  Is that culture shifting in your opinion?
• 9:31
  I think they are shifting.
• 9:33
  Of course, at the end of the day, a business is a business, right?
• 9:36
  They are still all retail brands at retail, so they are going to have their shops and people are going to be working as sales staff and everything, so that job is not going, right?
• 9:46
  So I think the way they're shifting is how they're looking at the customer data, how they're integrating AI to manage the customer data, how they're engaging their customers to various touch points using AI, how they...
• 10:00
  creating a better experience for their customers in the store and making it more interactive through whether it's AI, through technology and everything.
• 10:09
  So those aspects are shifting.
• 10:11
  So it's becoming more of an experiential luxury than just going shopping, right?
• 10:18
  And are people really still going shopping?
• 10:21
  Like, what is the data?
• 10:22
  Like, I'm just using myself as an example.
• 10:25
  I would say I barely go into an actual store to buy something anymore, right?
• 10:30
  I know what I like.
• 10:31
  I most likely just order it online, right?
• 10:33
  Once in a while, if I'm gonna buy maybe a nice jacket or something like that, sure, I'll go to a store I love and go try it on just because I wanna see what that feels like.
• 10:43
  But even with clothes and et cetera, people get it shipped and then just return it if they don't like it or they change their size.
• 10:50
  What's actually happening in the retail market, especially here in Hong Kong, right?
• 10:55
  Which we have every large brand has their massive store here.
• 11:00
  Like, are people actually still going into shops to buy stuff?
• 11:03
  Yeah, I think it depends on the product category, right?
• 11:05
  So if you're buying your daily consumable products, you're buying it online because you know what you need to buy and you buy it online.
• 11:11
  Or even your whisky, right?
• 11:12
  People are buying whisky online.
• 11:13
  Buying it online because you know, you've tried the whisky before, you like it, you're just, it's a replenishment product, right?
• 11:19
  Now, but if you're going to spend 20,000 Hong Kong dollar on a bag, you're not gonna buy it online.
• 11:25
  You want to go to the shop, you want to try it on, you want to gain the experience, you want to see different kinds of styles, products and everything.
• 11:32
  People don't necessarily go to a store to shop, they're going for the experience that you won't get online.
• 11:39
  And what is that experience that you think these companies need to deliver?
• 11:42
  Like, how is that, how are they trying to do that in a new way or in an interesting way for customers, you think?
• 11:50
  I think it's, you know, the experience starts right from, you know, the moment you step into the store, even before you step into the store, when you start looking at online, and then, you know, you walk into the store, it starts with your greeting, you know, some big brands are doing like, okay, they have private lounges, you come to the private lounge, they'll give you a glass of champagne, they'll pamper you in that way, especially if you're their VVIP customers.
• 12:14
  I think in general, a lot of consumers or customers, what you say is they like to walk into a store to shop because on the weekends when they're walking around the shopping malls with their family, that's what they like to do, right?
• 12:26
  Yes, there are the younger generation, or some of us who...
• 12:30
  who may not want to buy luxury.
• 12:32
  So if you're not buying luxury, yes, you don't mind buying it online.
• 12:37
  If it doesn't fit, you don't like it, you ship it back, right?
• 12:40
  But that does not happen when you're buying something worth 10, 15, 20,000, something like that.
• 12:44
  People still want that.
• 12:45
  People want that experience.
• 12:47
  They want that personal touch.
• 12:48
  They want that personal feel.
• 12:49
  And that's why it's called luxury because that's why retail sales, if you look at most luxury brands, their online business is somewhere only about 8% to 10% of the global sales.
• 13:00
  Really?
• 13:01
  That's surprising to me.
• 13:02
  For luxury brands.
• 13:03
  Now for, yes, for beauty brands, it's much higher.
• 13:05
  Beauty brands, it's in the range of 20%, 25%, or even close to 30%.
• 13:10
  For sports brands and casual brands, it's in the range of 20%, 25%.
• 13:14
  But it's still the vast majority of what you're telling me.
• 13:17
  Somewhere between 65% and 85% is still retail in the store.
• 13:23
  That's where people are still going to buy stuff.
• 13:25
  To me, that's surprising.
• 13:26
  Because I know for me, maybe I'm skewed and I hate going shopping, right?
• 13:31
  I think I was skewed from being a kid because I remember my mom used to like always drag me around with her to like, and I always used to have to hold the bags when I was like, my mom would go do shopping and I was sitting there.
• 13:43
  Obviously when I was a kid, I didn't have a phone or anything like that.
• 13:46
  So I used to just sit there in these like boutique stores while my mom was shopping and I was just sitting around.
• 13:51
  So I think going all the way back, I have some trauma from retail shopping.
• 13:57
  If you get me to go shop somewhere, I'm like in, I buy it, I'm out.
• 14:01
  Like I don't want to sit and try things.
• 14:04
  But not what the majority of people do, it sounds like.
• 14:07
  Yeah, and I think the trauma that you went through, I think most kids went through that same thing.
• 14:12
  And I used to go shopping with my mom and I used to be carrying bags and I used to go to buy one thing and I'm done.
• 14:19
  So yes, I think in general, I think it's also the gender.
• 14:22
  I think males usually have a very specific thing they want to buy.
• 14:27
  They go into the shop, same like me.
• 14:28
  I want to go buy like sneakers.
• 14:30
  I'm going to go buy sneakers.
• 14:31
  I'm going to go to a sneaker store and buy that one thing and I'm in and out.
• 14:34
  But then you should ask the same question to women.
• 14:36
  They enjoy window shopping.
• 14:38
  Window shopping is a hobby for them.
• 14:40
  So they don't mind spending few hours in the mall.
• 14:42
  So even if you go, even if you walk around on the weekends in Hong Kong, for example, on Saturday, Sunday, whether you go to IFC, Pacific Place, they're filled with families.
• 14:50
  People are walking around.
• 14:52
  Maybe they're not shopping as much as they used to shop because consumers have really dropped their spending.
• 14:57
  That's why you see it not only in retail.
• 15:00
  luxury, but in general everywhere you see the spending is lower? We're seeing it in the whisky industry for sure. People are spending, it's interesting in the whisky industry, at least what we're seeing, we're chatting about this, so we run whisky Hammer, right, which is one of our our business's auction business and what we've seen in the last few years is the number of lots we sell is actually going up or staying the same but going up a little bit, so people are buying, the volume is there, they're just not spending the same amount that they used to spend. Is that what you're seeing across the luxury industry? Yeah, I definitely see that and I think that's why a lot of the luxury brands are coming up with the entry-level products for the entry-level luxury shopper where, you know, they're not reducing the prices but they're coming up with the entry-level products, right, because there's generations, like our parents' generations who used to go and buy the bags, they used to go enjoy the luxury shopping, they wanted that three Louis Vuitton bags, they wanted the, you know, five of these brand bags and all that, then our generation, we are okay with one or two luxury items, we don't need ten that our parents had, but the younger generation are like, they're buying more out of necessity, so what they need, okay, I need them one bag, I'll go and buy one nice bag and that's it, but I need, I like skiing, so I'm going to go and spend stuff on skiing, I want to be healthier, so I'm going to go and spend some, put some outdoor things, so it's right, the younger generation, I would say Gen Z's and Y's and X's, whatever you call them nowadays, they'll go and move to the necessity shopping, like they buy when they need it, they don't buy it because they want just to have something to call, right, so I think there has been a shift in the consumers and I think luxury brands are also now figuring out how to attract these younger consumers by coming up with products that are necessary, not at a certain price point, but at a lower price point, but still has the same quality and, you know, the brand recognition for them. All right, let's talk more about the, we talked a little bit about the company side, let's talk more about the candidate side, but let's have a whisky in between.
• 17:08
  So, next whisky we're having or tasting today is a very, very special whisky I got out for you, so there's not many bottles of this actually that were ever produced in the world, so this is Ichiro Malt, the Joker, so this is the last release of 52 card playing series by, it's actually from the Hanyu distillery, which is a closed distillery.
• 17:31
  So Hanyu closed in 2000.
• 17:34
  This is done by Ichiro.
• 17:35
  And so they did a whole playing card series and they did two of the jokers actually.
• 17:41
  So they did a multicolored joker and then they did a monochrome joker.
• 17:45
  The monochrome black and white joker is even more rare.
• 17:48
  But this particular release, I think there was only about 3,500 bottles globally.
• 17:53
  So this was actually a whisky we had left from the whisky Fund when we did the first fund, which you were part of.
• 17:59
  So I thought it'd be a special one for us to try together.
• 18:02
  So this was bottled in 2014.
• 18:04
  It's a mix of vintages between, I think it's six different vintages, 1985 to 2000.
• 18:10
  They blended together vintages.
• 18:12
  And this is the Ichiro malt joker.
• 18:15
  You'd know of anyone who has all the 52 bottles.
• 18:18
  I used to.
• 18:19
  So there was a guy here in Hong Kong, Aaron Chan, I think his name was.
• 18:24
  He had a bar here where he had all of them.
• 18:26
  This is at 57% alcohol.
• 18:29
  As you just discovered, maybe I should've told you that before.
• 18:33
  That's a big straw.
• 18:34
  57% alcohol will, yeah, put some hair on your chest there.
• 18:41
  Yeah, I was like, I would just light it up.
• 18:42
  I just put a match in, I would be like.
• 18:44
  Yeah, you're on fire.
• 18:47
  So highly recommend a couple of drops of water with this one to let it open up.
• 18:52
  But yeah, let's get your thoughts on this whisky.
• 18:56
  So this is obviously sherry.
• 18:57
  This is Powerbomb.
• 18:59
  This is very Japanese style to me in the sense that it's, for me, compared to, for example, the Aaron, this is less subtle.
• 19:08
  This is actually a little bit more punchy.
• 19:11
  Very, very punchy.
• 19:12
  Very powerful whisky.
• 19:13
  And I love Japanese whisky, right?
• 19:15
  So if I tell you my story, like before even a lot of people knew about Japanese whiskies, I started buying Japanese whiskies 12, I bought my first bottle of Yamazaki 12 about 14 years ago for 150 Hong Kong dollars.
• 19:29
  Yeah.
• 19:30
  And now I think that bottle is worth 3000 Hong Kong dollars.
• 19:33
  I remember you were doing trips to Japan just like hoarding Japanese whisky.
• 19:37
  How did you get into it?
• 19:38
  What made you get into whisky?
• 19:40
  What, so we're talking about 2012, 2013.
• 19:43
  Yeah, yeah.
• 19:44
  So way before most of the world cared about Japanese whisky, even before the Japanese cared about Japanese whisky, let's be clear about that.
• 19:52
  They didn't really care that much.
• 19:53
  You could buy as much, back then you could buy as much Yamazaki, as you wanted.
• 19:57
  Yeah, so I was always a whisky drinker.
• 20:00
  So I was, you know, coming from India, everyone drinks whisky, right?
• 20:02
  So as you know, so I was always, whisky was my go-to drink.
• 20:06
  But that was more blend, right?
• 20:07
  Yeah, blend, it was black label, simple, right?
• 20:10
  But then when I started going to Japan a lot, one of my ex-colleagues used to work with me.
• 20:14
  She was the first one who told me, why don't you, hey, can you get me a bottle of Yamazaki 12?
• 20:18
  I was like, why would you buy Japanese whisky?
• 20:21
  If you buy, you buy scotch, right?
• 20:24
  Because for me, my Japanese whisky knowledge was nothing.
• 20:26
  I was like, why would you buy Yamazaki 12?
• 20:28
  She's like, no, just bring it to the office, we'll try it.
• 20:31
  I'm like 12 years old and like, whatever.
• 20:33
  So I bought a bottle and I loved it.
• 20:35
  Yeah.
• 20:36
  And then I was like, okay.
• 20:38
  Then you were hooked.
• 20:38
  I was hooked to it.
• 20:40
  And then I started with 12 and went to 18.
• 20:42
  Then I saw Hibiki 17, Hibiki 21, Hibiki 30.
• 20:46
  And then I just like, every time I used to go to Japan, I used to tell my colleague, hey, here's a card, can we go and just go to the shops and pick up like six, eight, 10 bottles?
• 20:54
  At one point they told me, no more whisky.
• 20:56
  We don't have place to store it.
• 20:58
  How many bottles of whisky do you think, Japanese whisky do you think you accumulated at one point?
• 21:02
  What was the height?
• 21:03
  How many bottles do you think were sitting around your office in Japan or your home in Hong Kong altogether?
• 21:09
  So I think at one point in Japan, I had almost about 40 bottles, 50 bottles sitting around in the office.
• 21:16
  That's a lot of whisky.
• 21:17
  I still have about, I last count from last month was about 18 bottles, 15 or 18 bottles in my office in Japan.
• 21:24
  But you've stopped buying?
• 21:25
  I've stopped buying because the prices have become ridiculous right now.
• 21:28
  If I still see an odd deal, I will still go online.
• 21:31
  And if I see an odd deal, because the yen being so cheap, I'll still try to pick up a bottle here or there and just find a unique deal.
• 21:37
  In Hong Kong, I still have about 30, 35 bottles of Japanese whisky.
• 21:41
  You've got some good Japanese whisky there.
• 21:42
  Yeah, this is a crazy unique bottle.
• 21:44
  So this is probably about 5,000.
• 21:47
  I think current retail price would be about 5,000 pounds or about 8,000 US dollars per bottle.
• 21:53
  So it does taste a lot of difference once you put water in it up and it opens up.
• 21:57
  Yeah.
• 21:58
  Because that 57 really drops it down to the 40s.
• 22:01
  And then it's less punchy.
• 22:03
  Yeah, it needs a bit of time to develop.
• 22:05
  You need to give it the water.
• 22:07
  And then you start to get some of these secondary and tertiary notes and it kind of calms down a little bit.
• 22:12
  For me, again, this is all very personal, but I think the Aaron was a little more complex.
• 22:19
  I'm gonna give the Ichiro Malt a solid 7.8 out of 10.
• 22:24
  I'll give it 7.5.
• 22:25
  Okay.
• 22:26
  I like it, but I prefer the Aaron.
• 22:30
  I just felt the iron was easier to drink.
• 22:32
  Yeah.
• 22:33
  I don't know, like, because you said, this is a blend of different ages.
• 22:36
  So I don't know whether it's...
• 22:38
  Yeah, there's some younger stuff down there.
• 22:39
  There's some older stuff in there.
• 22:41
  The brilliance of this was the marketing, right?
• 22:44
  To create a 52 card set, make them all in different limited quantities and then release them over time.
• 22:51
  And people tried to obviously create a collection, right?
• 22:55
  I think there was only probably maybe a dozen people or maybe even less than that in the whole world who actually were able to create a whole collection because most of the way he was sold, he just got drunk, right?
• 23:06
  People got one bottle here or one bottle there.
• 23:08
  But to sit and wait over a period of years and collect all the bottles kind of like barely happened.
• 23:14
  Luxury, I think, is all about limited supply, scarce supply.
• 23:19
  Is that still the strategy you see from most companies when they're trying to, you know, whether it's, I don't know, a Birkin bag or anything?
• 23:27
  Is that still what luxury is today?
• 23:30
  Is it about scarce scarcity or hard to get items?
• 23:34
  Yeah, so I think if you just go by the real definition of luxury, right?
• 23:38
  Luxury means that something, it's a luxurious thing to have it.
• 23:41
  It's hard to have it, right?
• 23:43
  So everyone should not be able to buy it.
• 23:45
  That's the whole word about the word luxury.
• 23:48
  I think there are certain brands that do really well, like you mentioned, the Birkin and Kelly.
• 23:53
  I think they are the two bags that have created a true supply and demand issue where, you know, there are people on the wait list for a year, two years for that bag.
• 24:04
  Yeah, I'm not sure I'll ever understand why, but maybe you can explain it to me.
• 24:07
  And I don't know, too.
• 24:09
  I really don't know why.
• 24:10
  And if you see the price, actually, it's an investment.
• 24:13
  So if you see the value of that bag, if you talk about a Birkin or a Kelly, the Birkin or a Kelly has really doubled in value over the last 10 years.
• 24:20
  How much would it educate me?
• 24:21
  What's it at?
• 24:23
  I don't know right now, but if I...
• 24:25
  And I don't know the exact number because I've never bought one and I don't plan to buy one.
• 24:30
  But I would say that...
• 24:31
  Future Mrs. Moore, if you're listening, you might get one.
• 24:33
  No.
• 24:35
  I would prefer to buy whisky with that money if people did that.
• 24:39
  Future Mrs. Moore is going to have a much bigger Japanese whisky collection than a Birkin bag.
• 24:44
  So I would say about 10 years ago, I think the bag was about $12,000, $10,000, $12,000 US.
• 24:50
  And I think the same bag today is about somewhere between $27,000, $28,000 US.
• 24:54
  Can you actually resell this bag?
• 24:56
  You said the word investment.
• 24:57
  Like if I somehow get my hands on this bag, is this...
• 25:00
  Something you could, no, right?
• 25:01
  That's not really what happens.
• 25:02
  You're buying it to use it, or you're buying it as a gift, right?
• 25:05
  You can.
• 25:06
  So there are certain guys, there is a secondary market for certain bags, right?
• 25:10
  So even like if you go to, I don't know if the auction houses had it in bags, but they have it for watches and all that.
• 25:17
  And there are certain secondary market for luxury bags where a lot of times people, if they buy a luxury bag, they might wear it four times or five times, right?
• 25:27
  Celebrities, top, top rich people, they wear it four or five times.
• 25:31
  And then they don't want to be seen in the society with the same bag the seventh time.
• 25:35
  So then they will either resell it, or they'll give it to someone, or that person will resell it and exchange it or something.
• 25:42
  So there is always a secondary market.
• 25:44
  Yeah, there's a really, I learned about this organization that is pretty big in the US, Runway.
• 25:49
  I think it's called, right?
• 25:50
  Where you can basically rent a very, very expensive dress to wear to a wedding or whatever, a special occasion.
• 25:58
  And you just run that.
• 25:59
  And I think they're doing really well.
• 26:01
  So there's tons of different sites that do this kind of thing, or services that let you rent whatever it is you want to rent just for that night instead of having to buy the whole thing.
• 26:11
  Yeah, and there are other companies in the US where you can just like, you don't want to keep changing your wardrobe every month.
• 26:16
  You can just rent a new wardrobe every month.
• 26:18
  Really?
• 26:19
  Yeah.
• 26:20
  That seems like a lot of work.
• 26:22
  That seems like more work.
• 26:24
  So you get literally like, OK, I want 10 shirts or 12 shirts for this month, and then just return those 12 shirts, and then next month get another 12 shirts.
• 26:32
  Oh, man, you're making me feel so poor.
• 26:35
  I have so little effort.
• 26:37
  I'm still wearing the same t-shirts.
• 26:39
  I'm OK with t-shirts and jeans.
• 26:40
  We don't need anything fancy.
• 26:42
  I'm going more the Steve Jobs way with things.
• 26:45
  I don't wear all black turtlenecks, but I mostly just have a few select shirts, and that's kind of about it.
• 26:51
  Steve Rogers, black turtleneck and denim.
• 26:53
  And that was it, right?
• 26:54
  So you didn't need anything else.
• 26:56
  He didn't want to focus on having to make that choice every day.
• 27:00
  It was all about, I don't care about that.
• 27:02
  I want to focus on making the best Apple Watch or whatever it was.
• 27:06
  So anyway, so let's get back to luxury market.
• 27:09
  If I'm a recent graduate, or let's say even I'm in my 20s or let's say 30s, and I'm looking to now get a job in the luxury industry, what advice would you have for someone like that or somebody who wants to work, who loves, let's say, fashion?
• 27:25
  And they really want to get into the world of fashion.
• 27:28
  What should they be studying?
• 27:31
  What experience do they have?
• 27:32
  What advice would you give someone like that?
• 27:35
  So if you see most university graduates and most time when luxury brands recruit fresh out of universities, whether it's in Europe, US, anywhere, they usually at least have everyone start in the store for the first six months.
• 27:49
  And I think that's a very good thing.
• 27:51
  And if companies don't do that, they should, because that really gives you the actual hands-on information on the business.
• 27:58
  You're dealing with the customers.
• 28:00
  You're understanding where the maximum money is made, because that's where the brand makes the money, is in the store.
• 28:06
  The brand is not making the money in the office.
• 28:08
  It's making it in the store.
• 28:10
  And whatever happens in the store is coming from the office.
• 28:12
  So I think most people should start off in the store for at least six months.
• 28:16
  If you're really passionate about luxury, if you come out and tell me I really want to be in luxury and I want to build my career in the luxury and in 20 years from now I want to be a CEO of a luxury company, then my first thing I'll tell you is, OK, go work in the store for six months.
• 28:31
  Get to know the customer.
• 28:32
  Get to know the customer.
• 28:33
  Get to see how the business works.
• 28:35
  What's the whole experience working in the store, the interaction with the customer, the whole purchase, the whole what you call a sales journey, right from the storytelling about the product, all that, knowing about the brand, the product, the history, the heritage, all that.
• 28:53
  So that builds your foundation.
• 28:56
  But do people who, let's say they go down that path and then they become store manager or whatever, do they then actually have a path to go to operations, head office?
• 29:07
  Or where do they go once you're a store manager?
• 29:09
  What's the next step for them?
• 29:11
  So if I know a lot of CEOs today for luxury brands, they all were store managers 20 years ago.
• 29:17
  OK, so that is where it comes from.
• 29:19
  Yeah, so usually you can be a CEO from different parts.
• 29:23
  So it's not necessary when you start in the store you continue in the store to take the store manager path.
• 29:28
  You start in the store to get to know the business and the brand.
• 29:31
  Then you can take on a role in the office, whether it's in marketing, product, or merchandising, or it could be in operations or everything.
• 29:39
  But your foundation is there that you know the brand story, you know the heritage, you know how the whole brand functions at the store, right?
• 29:47
  So like right now, what are, you don't have to say the companies obviously, but what are the main types of roles that you are recruiting for right now?
• 29:54
  What types of roles are the ones that luxury companies use your service, your recruitment company to find?
• 30:02
  Is it mostly CMOs, what is it?
• 30:05
  So I would say it varies, right?
• 30:08
  So a lot of roles are around merchandising that are open right now.
• 30:12
  Merchandising is basically where the person is deciding what to buy for the market.
• 30:16
  So you have a merchandising team in the luxury brands.
• 30:19
  They will work with headquarters to understand what's the collection coming out, and then they'll share some feedback about what's the collection needed for my market or for the Asia market or the China market.
• 30:28
  So those roles are in demand right now.
• 30:31
  Of course, e-commerce is always in demand.
• 30:34
  Every company is looking to hire e-commerce people because the investment in e-commerce versus revenue coming for e-commerce, it's very profitable.
• 30:43
  So definitely people want to grow and develop their e-commerce and keep changing e-commerce because today e-commerce years ago was okay.
• 30:50
  You had different platforms, whether it was Tmall, whether it was JD, and you had different platforms, but now there are new platforms come out.
• 30:59
  The younger generation are more talking about the Red Book or what you call a Shandong Shu and everything.
• 31:03
  So now- In China, yeah.
• 31:05
  In China, right.
• 31:06
  And in Japan, you have different platforms.
• 31:08
  In Korea, you have different platforms.
• 31:10
  So there's been a transition of where you're shopping online also.
• 31:15
  So that e-commerce will always be in demand right now.
• 31:19
  And I think marketing, but like I said, yes, people are looking for CMO roles.
• 31:23
  The CMO role has not changed, but now they're not looking for those traditional people that they were looking five, seven years ago.
• 31:30
  They're looking for that, plus people who are more AI savvy, digital, more tech savvy, and understand how to integrate data in driving customer engagement and marketing.
• 31:42
  And are you finding candidates?
• 31:44
  So in your business right now, is the challenge the candidates or is it the positions or is it a bit of both?
• 31:50
  Obviously, it's a matching process.
• 31:52
  You're constantly looking at new positions and you always have a database of candidates.
• 31:56
  So what's the bigger challenge right now?
• 31:58
  Finding the candidates with the experience that they need, are they there?
• 32:03
  Like the guys who have the AI and have the marketing, is that out there?
• 32:07
  So I think it depends on market to market.
• 32:08
  So I think in Japan, it's always been, Japan traditionally has been a candidate short market.
• 32:13
  So regardless of the role, there are more jobs available in Japan than the talent available in Japan.
• 32:19
  But yeah, right, that makes sense.
• 32:21
  The requirements are, obviously, you have to speak Japanese.
• 32:24
  That is how it is.
• 32:25
  I think today, if you look at Asia, I would say the talent pool is there, right?
• 32:30
  I think the skillsets that clients are looking for is there.
• 32:33
  I just feel that the talent has more choices to choose from.
• 32:38
  And I think over the last five years, seven years, the priority has changed in what people are looking for when they look for a job.
• 32:48
  So I would say five years ago, yes, it was about the title, it was about the money, it was about the company reputation and everything.
• 32:55
  Today, it's more about the benefits.
• 32:59
  So people now are more focused on, okay, can I work from home?
• 33:02
  Do I have flex hours in the office?
• 33:05
  How many holidays do I get?
• 33:08
  And then they talk about title and money and everything.
• 33:12
  So that's- It's a huge shift.
• 33:13
  It's a huge shift, right?
• 33:14
  So I think that's where challenges becomes is finding that talent who can match that company that meets their requirements.
• 33:22
  So yes, today, a lot of talent is there.
• 33:26
  So employees are also picky, but also understand that even talent is starting to become picky as where they can want to choose.
• 33:34
  So you're talking about market to market and your business operates in Japan, Hong Kong, and mainland China, Shanghai mostly, right?
• 33:40
  So you told us a bit about Japan.
• 33:42
  Okay, Japan, there's more jobs than there are candidates and because of the requirements.
• 33:47
  What's it like in Hong Kong and what's it like in Shanghai?
• 33:50
  So in China, I would say there is talent.
• 33:52
  So there is, it's the reverse of Japan.
• 33:54
  So it's easy to find the talent in China.
• 33:58
  I think jobs, China economy is going, mainland China economy in Hong Kong going through a transition.
• 34:04
  I think if I just talk about today, at least within retail luxury in our in space, I would say the hiring is not as great as it used to be.
• 34:14
  So there's more talent available.
• 34:16
  The hiring in China has shifted a lot towards tech.
• 34:19
  So with all, again, coming back to AI, with all the buzz around AI and everything.
• 34:25
  And now it's China, US, race, AI, it's all.
• 34:28
  So there's a lot of hiring around AI.
• 34:30
  There's a lot of hiring around tech.
• 34:32
  Gaming has become big in China.
• 34:34
  So there's a lot of hiring around gaming industry.
• 34:36
  So not the industries, unfortunately, not the industry that we are in, but retail luxury.
• 34:41
  And, but I still think retail luxury, China, mainland China is, if not the first, it's the second largest market for most brands in the world with US and China being the top two markets for most luxury brands in the world.
• 34:53
  Yeah, and I mean, you look at live shopping days, like what, 10, 10 singles day and stuff like that, it blows.
• 35:00
  In terms of retail sales, it's not even close to anything else.
• 35:03
  It's so much bigger on such a scale that most people don't really even fully understand how big those kind of days are, right?
• 35:11
  So it's about value, right?
• 35:12
  So whenever there's a value, there's a lot of shopping.
• 35:14
  Now if you see, I'm not sure if you've seen, like today now China declared Sanya as a duty-free port.
• 35:22
  And just in three days, I think they did like 600 million US in sales, all of Sanya in retail.
• 35:28
  Wow.
• 35:29
  Because it was duty-free, so the prices of the brands.
• 35:32
  This is mainland Chinese people going to Sanya to buy stuff and go home, basically.
• 35:37
  Because Sanya was declared, like Hainan Island was declared as a part of Hainan, or most of Hainan Island was declared as a duty-free port.
• 35:44
  So the price difference of buying the same luxury brand in Hainan, or any brand in Hainan versus other cities in China was about 18% to 20%.
• 35:55
  So that just makes sense.
• 35:56
  It makes sense.
• 35:56
  So that's value.
• 35:57
  I think today most people are going value shopping.
• 36:00
  So when they see a value, they'll buy.
• 36:01
  It's not that they're not spending, but they're spending wisely.
• 36:04
  They're spending on value.
• 36:05
  So there's a lot of money in China on luxury spending, but it's more value-driven.
• 36:09
  And you've been in this industry for 20 plus years.
• 36:12
  You've seen the cycles.
• 36:13
  Are we just in another cycle?
• 36:15
  I guess the big question that's happening in the whisky world right now, and I'm curious to get your opinion on what you think of this for luxury and what you're seeing is, is this just another cycle?
• 36:26
  As in, OK, things are a bit down right now, but give it two years, give it three years, give it five years, things will be back?
• 36:33
  Or is this something more fundamental that's shifting in, as we've been talking about, consumers are shifting behavior, and they want value, and they're never going to want that top-end luxury again?
• 36:45
  What's your view?
• 36:46
  So, OK, there is a certain level of consumer, the uberage.
• 36:49
  For them, it does not make a difference.
• 36:51
  So let's leave those apart.
• 36:53
  I think with the younger generation, they are shifting.
• 36:56
  If you see, I think whisky, of course, value, but also if you see the younger generation, as data suggests, they're not drinking as much as their parents' generation.
• 37:06
  I think that's true in places like the US and Europe.
• 37:09
  I would challenge that if that's really true in places like India or China or Asia.
• 37:14
  I'm not sure.
• 37:15
  I don't know what the statistics are.
• 37:17
  China, definitely, I've seen it.
• 37:19
  Because if you see some of the alcohol companies and you see their sales in China, and if I see some of the...
• 37:26
  Because I go to Shanghai every week, so I see some of the younger people out.
• 37:30
  they'll have a glass of wine, that's it.
• 37:31
  And that's it for them.
• 37:32
  They're not gummey a whole bowl of Montaigne.
• 37:35
  Thankfully.
• 37:36
  That's the parents' generation, right?
• 37:38
  That's the parents' generation.
• 37:40
  Not even the parents, maybe a little bit our generation, you would say.
• 37:43
  So yes, they're more cautious.
• 37:45
  They're coming back to what they prefer to spending is what we call as the experiential luxury.
• 37:49
  If they find a good experience, they will go.
• 37:51
  So now they're spending more on travel.
• 37:53
  So they'll go, they don't mind going on a cruise.
• 37:55
  They will go, if you see, they'll go and spend on high-end hotels.
• 38:00
  But when they go out to eat, they won't spend that much on their lunches and dinners because they want to experience staying in the high-end properties.
• 38:07
  They want to go and experience going skiing in one of the top resorts in the world.
• 38:13
  So that is what is luxury for them right now.
• 38:17
  So that is what the shift has become more towards the experiential luxury.
• 38:21
  So it's not that they don't have the money.
• 38:23
  Also, as I'm sure as you know, being in the whisky business, luxury shopping is more about disposable income.
• 38:30
  Right.
• 38:31
  Yeah, you don't need this stuff.
• 38:32
  You don't need this stuff.
• 38:33
  So it's more about disposable income.
• 38:35
  I think given how the global markets have worked over the last few years, a lot of people have had challenges with their disposable income.
• 38:42
  So as long, if your disposable income is low, then you're really thinking, where do you want to spend it?
• 38:47
  It's not that you don't want to spend it.
• 38:49
  It's not that you don't want to go out and have it.
• 38:50
  Yeah, you're making different choices.
• 38:51
  You're making different choices.
• 38:52
  Yes, I think that's fair.
• 38:54
  All right, speaking of choices.
• 39:03
  I chose this one because I know you love Glendronic.
• 39:06
  And I think Glendronic as a brand, a special place in your heart, if I remember correctly, it was one of the few brands that I think got you into, maybe not got you into scotch, but earlier on you were buying quite a lot of this Glendronic 18.
• 39:21
  This is not the Glendronic 18.
• 39:23
  This is a relatively new release from the Glendronic called Ode to the Dark.
• 39:28
  So they did a, this is a non-age statement.
• 39:30
  We don't know how old it is.
• 39:31
  It's at 50% alcohol.
• 39:33
  I'll warn you in advance this time.
• 39:35
  But take a look at just that color, right?
• 39:37
  I mean, even comparing to everything else here on the table, which are also sherry style whiskies, all of the age, whatever that age is, in Pedro Ximenez, sherry cask.
• 39:48
  So, and you get that fully on the nose.
• 39:51
  I mean, that is all the way, this is a PX.
• 39:55
  Oh, that's lovely.
• 40:00
  I'll give you a second to enjoy that, but I would suggest once again.
• 40:10
  So this is not a, I don't remember the exact retail value of this, but I think this is about 150, 160 pounds, somewhere in that range. So this is not a very, compared to obviously the Ichiro, which is... See, the 7% really makes a difference because this is 50 and that was 57, so it didn't feel that punchy without the water versus that one. Maybe, or you're now used to just drinking. We're now on our third whisky. So you're enjoying the whisky.
• 40:40
  So to me, this is very elegant, very sherry, but because it's not, I think, aged that long, it's got a little bit of a harshness on the finish for me. So I think this is a fantastic whisky. I think it's a great value whisky, but it doesn't have the finish, the smoothness of finish that I get when you have more aged whiskies, let's say 15. Like if you compare this to the Glendronic 15 or 18, I would, obviously those are more expensive, but those would be a preferable.
• 41:15
  It seems to be a 10 or a 12 based on the finish and there's a harshness.
• 41:19
  It's probably a mix, right? So they don't want to put the age on there, but there's some 10 and 12, there might be a bit of 15. There's probably a lot of six and seven year old Glendronic in there and they'd mix it all together. The nose is beautiful. Yes. I would say color and nose, amazing. First taste, really nice finish, a bit harsh. It's hurting on the throat a little bit.
• 41:41
  Yeah, I agree. So I would give this probably a solid seven. Same. Yeah. Let me try it.
• 41:49
  It is better with a bit of water. So how many candidates do you or your company kind of meet with like on a weekly, monthly basis? Are you actually still meeting with all these different candidates? Is it phone? What do you do when somebody says, Hey, I'm looking for a job?
• 42:06
  Or is your approach more that once there's a position, you're then doing the headhunting part where you're going finding somebody who's already in a job and then convincing them to come take this job? What's the breakup? I would say 95% of our work is actually executive search. So headhunting. So usually first we get the brief from the client and then and we look at where the candidates are.
• 42:32
  Some could be someone we already know from before, from our database, so we, of course, reach out to them first, and if the people that we know are not right, then we go and find people based on, okay, we're looking for X company, who are the competitors?
• 42:48
  These are the competitors.
• 42:49
  Who are the people at the companies?
• 42:51
  We approach them.
• 42:52
  In terms of meeting people, I think it really depends on the search.
• 42:56
  Recently, I did a global head of retail for a brand, and that person could come from anywhere in the world, so it was difficult for me to meet people if I'm interviewing people in the US and UK and everything, so it's difficult.
• 43:11
  If it's a local-based search, I usually encourage my team members to meet them, so if someone is in Hong Kong looking for a Hong Kong search, we try to meet the person, but if you're doing a cross-border search, we try to do it via video.
• 43:24
  And how are you using AI in your company, if at all, in terms of helping you to find candidates or even to find positions that might be open?
• 43:35
  Are you implementing any parts of AI in a different way?
• 43:39
  So I wouldn't say we're using AI for searching candidates.
• 43:42
  I would say we're using AI to help create job descriptions, to be able to share with candidates.
• 43:49
  We're using AI to help create stories on email, to write to candidates, to attract them for the jobs.
• 43:57
  We're using AI for day-to-day emails and everything, because in terms of, because we are headhunting, we're actually finding people.
• 44:08
  And now, especially if you look at a market like Japan, where AI is only looking at people who have their data, have their information online, right?
• 44:17
  A lot of people in Japan are not online, so their profiles are not on LinkedIn.
• 44:21
  So- Oh, okay.
• 44:23
  So that's a challenge.
• 44:24
  That's a challenge.
• 44:25
  So if their profiles are not LinkedIn, AI is not gonna be able to find that person, right?
• 44:29
  So that's the challenge in our business.
• 44:32
  I think AI works when you're doing really mass hiring.
• 44:36
  So if you're trying to hire 500 engineers and you post a job and you get a thousand resumes, then AI can filter out those resumes and come up with the qualified resumes.
• 44:46
  But if I'm looking for a CEO for a company, I can't use AI, because that's a very human touch.
• 44:52
  Yeah.
• 44:53
  I'd have to pick up the phone, call the person, speak to the person, interview the person, build that relationship.
• 44:58
  And are you finding companies as- the trend are doing more of that search on their own versus using executive search companies, or has it pretty much been the same?
• 45:07
  They always, X number of roles, they're always gonna use executive search, so that's that.
• 45:12
  No, I think it's shifted.
• 45:14
  So I would say for senior searches, I would say C-level, C-level minus one, companies are still using recruiters because at that level, they know that sometimes candidates, they're people who they're looking for who are already employed with certain companies, and they may not be able to approach them, especially if it's a confidential search.
• 45:33
  So if it's a confidential search, then the company does not want to approach, let's say, you know, you're- A direct competitor.
• 45:39
  A direct competitor, because then they will know, oh, my competitor is looking for someone like that.
• 45:44
  I think at the junior level roles, a lot of companies are doing direct hiring right now, and I think that's mainly reason is because, as I mentioned before, there's a lot of talent available in the market today given the economy situation.
• 45:56
  So especially in Hong Kong and China, there are a lot of people who are actively looking for jobs.
• 46:01
  So when a company contacts them directly through their in-house talent team, they're responsive.
• 46:08
  So I think in the last five years, it's shifted a lot where, for I would say non-managerial roles or even up to manager levels, a lot of companies have started to do their own direct hiring through referrals, through the internal talent acquisition.
• 46:20
  Yeah, all that.
• 46:21
  So this has been getting growing.
• 46:23
  So when you get a candidate, let's say, and you're really trying to convince them to take a job, tell me some fun stories of what that process is like.
• 46:33
  Because I assume you go to people, obviously you have the salary and blah, blah, and they say, no, I'm not interested.
• 46:39
  You don't take that as a no.
• 46:40
  I assume you try to push a little bit further, right?
• 46:43
  What is that process like?
• 46:45
  For me, my philosophy is we good people like to work with good people, right?
• 46:49
  I never start off with talking about the salary or the title or the company.
• 46:53
  I will always start off selling up the boss.
• 46:56
  So I'll say, hey, I just met this amazing guy.
• 46:59
  For example, if I'm trying to find someone for you, I met Rakesh.
• 47:02
  You know, he's really, he has his whole story.
• 47:04
  Started, got into whisky some years ago, so he created the first whisky fund, sold the fund.
• 47:08
  Now he's doing this, blah, blah, blah.
• 47:10
  I get you hooked on to Rakesh.
• 47:12
  That you should wanna work at this company.
• 47:15
  I said, go have a meeting with Rakesh.
• 47:17
  Okay.
• 47:17
  Right?
• 47:18
  So it's all about hooking the person up to a story.
• 47:21
  That story could be the story of the company.
• 47:23
  It could be an individual story.
• 47:25
  Right.
• 47:26
  So all I talk about, I always tell my team is create a good story.
• 47:30
  And if you're able to attract people to the story, half your job is done.
• 47:33
  Right, because then they want that.
• 47:35
  They've already started by wanting something different.
• 47:38
  Right.
• 47:39
  But do you also try to find out what their pain points are in their current situation?
• 47:43
  Are people open about that?
• 47:44
  Because if they're talking about switching jobs, which you said is like 90 plus percent, either the new job has to be better in some way, or there's something here that I don't like, right, in my current position that you're somehow gonna fix.
• 47:58
  Right.
• 47:59
  So I think great people are never actively looking.
• 48:01
  Great talent is never actively looking for jobs.
• 48:03
  Jobs always come to them.
• 48:04
  Yeah.
• 48:05
  Right, unless there's a big, big, big issue for them.
• 48:07
  Yeah, you have to definitely understand what their pain points are.
• 48:10
  And I think usually I look at it as there are, for any person, regardless of the level, there are five main pain points.
• 48:16
  One, it starts with your boss.
• 48:18
  You don't like the boss.
• 48:19
  That's one of the big main pain points, right?
• 48:22
  The culture of the company, right?
• 48:24
  So that's another second pain point.
• 48:26
  Then, of course, it's money, lack of promotion.
• 48:30
  Your boss is not leaving.
• 48:31
  You can't get your boss's job.
• 48:33
  Then you're stuck in the same role for five years.
• 48:35
  So you have to understand these three or four pain points.
• 48:37
  Yeah.
• 48:38
  And then you have to use it to see, is the other company able to solve any of these pain points?
• 48:42
  And if you feel they're not, then I don't think you should also, I would not recommend that person with a job, because then that person is gonna face the same issues.
• 48:49
  They're not gonna be happy.
• 48:50
  And you only get paid partially.
• 48:53
  They have to keep them hired for X amount of time before you make all your money, right?
• 48:57
  So you get some money for doing the search, some for the placement, and then how long do they have to keep them hired before you actually get your full fee?
• 49:04
  No, so we get paid 30 days after they join.
• 49:07
  Okay.
• 49:08
  That's our terms and condition, right?
• 49:10
  So we get paid a full fee 30 days after they join.
• 49:12
  Okay.
• 49:13
  But most companies have what you call as the probation period, which is usually three months to six months, depending on company to company and market to market.
• 49:19
  Yeah.
• 49:20
  So if something goes wrong between the three to six months, then it's a 50-50 thing, right?
• 49:24
  I didn't put a gun to your head to make you hire this person.
• 49:26
  I recommended- Right, you made the decision.
• 49:28
  I made the decision.
• 49:30
  So you don't give me credit for the successes, but you can't also blame me for the failures, right?
• 49:35
  So then it's really about a partnership, okay, that we'll say, okay, fine, we'll find you a free replacement.
• 49:39
  We won't give you the money back.
• 49:40
  Right, okay.
• 49:41
  But as long as it's no fault of the client.
• 49:44
  Today, if the company shut down, that's a different matter.
• 49:46
  Yeah.
• 49:47
  If this candidate actually did something wrong- Yeah, performance issues, or the candidate decided to quit or whatever, that's a different issue, right?
• 49:55
  So that is clearly, our clauses clearly state it's no fault of the client.
• 49:58
  Yeah.
• 50:00
  And is it where, you know, you've got a candidate, you've got a company, they've gone through the interviewing, they kind of like each other, but then the candidate gets cold feet or whatever.
• 50:11
  Does that happen?
• 50:12
  It happens a lot.
• 50:13
  Yeah.
• 50:13
  It happens a lot.
• 50:14
  In the, in that kind of last stage.
• 50:16
  In the really last stage, it happens a lot.
• 50:18
  Any examples or stories?
• 50:21
  There are different stories and examples, right?
• 50:23
  It happens where I've had stories where a person has signed an offer letter and basically didn't show up to work on the first day.
• 50:31
  And then I called the person up and I'm like, Hey, where are you?
• 50:33
  Where the fuck are you?
• 50:34
  I was like, uh, oh, sorry.
• 50:36
  I forgot.
• 50:36
  I changed my mind.
• 50:37
  I, I got another offer.
• 50:39
  I accepted an offer.
• 50:40
  Like, so why didn't you tell me?
• 50:41
  Like, oh, I didn't know I have to tell you that.
• 50:44
  You're kidding.
• 50:44
  They didn't realize that they shouldn't tell you that they're not taking the job.
• 50:48
  I was like, the client, the company is waiting for you.
• 50:50
  Like, yeah, please.
• 50:51
  Can you tell them that I'm not coming?
• 50:52
  Wow.
• 50:53
  And this is a senior role.
• 50:55
  This is a mid-management role, right?
• 50:57
  This was about eight, nine years ago, mid-management.
• 51:00
  Then there was another story where this, okay, this was a relocation.
• 51:03
  So it was basically cold feet where this person was relocating from, I think, yeah, it was from Japan to Hong Kong for a job and the movers had come in, packed all the boxes, everything.
• 51:16
  Flight was in two hours for the airport to fly to Hong Kong.
• 51:21
  Broke down.
• 51:22
  No.
• 51:23
  Wow.
• 51:23
  I cannot leave Japan.
• 51:24
  What was that about?
• 51:26
  Just lived in Japan for 15 years.
• 51:29
  Just never thought of leaving Japan.
• 51:32
  Everything was packed.
• 51:33
  Flight tickets were booked.
• 51:34
  That's really last minute.
• 51:36
  Really last minute and basically broke down.
• 51:38
  I can't leave Japan.
• 51:40
  Wow.
• 51:40
  And what do you do in that situation?
• 51:42
  What can you do?
• 51:42
  You can't.
• 51:43
  You're not going to force them.
• 51:44
  You can't.
• 51:44
  You can't do anything.
• 51:45
  And, and sometimes you feel that it's good that it happened now versus two months after they joined the company.
• 51:51
  Sure.
• 51:52
  But you must also be like, fuh, that sucks.
• 51:55
  Yes.
• 51:56
  Yes.
• 51:57
  But we never, we don't, we don't break off the relationship because things, see, at the end of the day, we're dealing with human beings.
• 52:02
  We have the right to change our mind.
• 52:03
  Yeah.
• 52:04
  Right.
• 52:04
  Human beings are the most difficult people to deal with.
• 52:07
  Yeah.
• 52:07
  Right.
• 52:08
  You know, you, you have dogs at home.
• 52:10
  It's easier to, you know.
• 52:11
  Yeah, yeah, you could.
• 52:12
  Yeah.
• 52:12
  They, they can be trained.
• 52:14
  Trained.
• 52:16
  With human beings, I could say yes today.
• 52:18
  And then you'll say, but you said yesterday.
• 52:20
  Yes.
• 52:20
  I'm like, yeah, but I changed my mind.
• 52:21
  So you're making a good case for why everyone wants to build an AI company.
• 52:25
  That just listens and just, you know, executes on what you tell.
• 52:30
  but to do, right?
• 52:30
  Yeah, a lot of times previously in Hong Kong, there was a shortage of talent.
• 52:34
  So we had to bring in, for senior roles, we had to bring in people from outside.
• 52:37
  So I moved people from Dubai or London or Paris.
• 52:41
  And now, you know, they're coming to Hong Kong for the first time.
• 52:44
  They're coming in here for the interviews.
• 52:46
  Of course, I'm winding them, dining them at the best restaurants, taking them out to the best bars, you know, making, showing them the good side of Hong Kong.
• 52:54
  Right.
• 52:55
  And then everything.
• 52:56
  And then they're all like, oh yes, I will move here and I'll move here.
• 52:59
  And they move here and they enjoy it.
• 53:00
  But then, yes, we have to make them feel, when they come in for interviews, especially if they're coming from out of, you know, especially from different parts of the world, you have to do a lot of work to show them around Hong Kong.
• 53:11
  You have to say the good things about Hong Kong, bad things about Hong Kong.
• 53:14
  Sometimes I have to do cost of living adjustment.
• 53:16
  You know, I'm coming from Dubai, which is zero tax.
• 53:18
  Okay, yes, but Hong Kong's 15% tax, but Dubai is zero tax.
• 53:22
  Now you have to find out what is there in Dubai that is taxed, that is not taxed in Hong Kong.
• 53:27
  Yeah, right.
• 53:28
  So you have to show all those things, right?
• 53:31
  So there's a lot of those stories that we had to do.
• 53:33
  And a lot of people have families, so it's about the family.
• 53:35
  Yeah.
• 53:36
  And do you have that happen a lot where the candidate wants to move and let's say the spouse or whatever is the block?
• 53:41
  Yeah.
• 53:42
  So usually when it comes to relocation, that's one of the first things we try to get out of the way in the first few rounds of the interview.
• 53:48
  Do you actually want to move country?
• 53:50
  Do you want to move country?
• 53:51
  No.
• 53:51
  Have you spoken to your wife or partner, wife, husband, partner?
• 53:55
  Have you spoken to your partner?
• 53:57
  No.
• 53:58
  I'm like, okay, here's the job.
• 53:59
  Here's what I've told you.
• 54:00
  Is the role interesting?
• 54:01
  Yes.
• 54:02
  Okay, I'm going to give you a day or so.
• 54:04
  Discuss it with your partner.
• 54:05
  And then if your partner is okay to make the move, then let's take it further.
• 54:10
  Because I don't want to waste your time and my time having this discussion if it's a no-no.
• 54:14
  So we try to get that.
• 54:16
  But even how much have you tried to get it out of the way?
• 54:19
  Many times it's happened last minute, they change.
• 54:22
  Yeah.
• 54:23
  That's just part of it.
• 54:24
  That's part of life.
• 54:25
  People change their mind.
• 54:27
  All right, we're going to go with our fourth and final whisky here.
• 54:31
  I think the Glendronic kind of, I think all of these whiskies actually...
• 54:35
  They open up after some water.
• 54:36
  Yeah, they need a little bit.
• 54:37
  The Glendronic is much better now.
• 54:40
  Yeah.
• 54:41
  I would still keep it at a seven for now.
• 54:42
  For me, I'm still going strong with the...
• 54:44
  All right, well, let's end on a high note.
• 54:47
  This is a blended whisky, but it's a 40 year old Edrington blend.
• 54:52
  So it's a blended whisky, but it's a 40 year old Edrington blend.
• 54:57
  So this is a cask that we had.
• 55:00
  in our collection 1976 this was distilled and then it was actually bottled in 2016 when it hit 40 years old so we actually never released this whisky so we still have this whisky in glass basically these are in bottle sitting in Scotland we think kind of perfect for a 40 year old birthday or something like that that you know we might sell our bottle in some way so this is at 46% and here's a 40 year old blended Edrington blend so for anybody who doesn't know Edrington owns Macallan they also own Highland Park and they used to own Famous Grouse at the time of when this was bottled they had Famous Grouse. But Edrington never made their own whisky with the brand name Edrington. I thought Edrington was always a parent company's name that owned Macallan and everything. Exactly right so this is just one of those casks somebody in 1976 had some we assume some Macallan some Highland Park and some whatever else was kind of sitting around and they decided to blend it together and experiment a little bit and then somehow that got sold on the secondary market because they didn't want to bottle an Edrington blend and so it was just an Edrington blend so usually something like that would have ended up as Famous Grouse. Famous Grouse is their blend. This ended up being something a bit more unique something they were experimenting with. We don't really know what's in this I mean from the taste profile I would I would hazard a guess that there's some Macallan in here no idea what kind of age level and then this is kind of the beauty of the industries you have these outliers right especially back in 1976 there wasn't as much control process in the warehouse the guys who kind of do a little bit more of whatever they want and then you have these kind of unique whiskies here and there that are all just a bit of fun yeah this is a 40 year old Edrington blend I love the nose this is dried fruits apricots it reminds me of Macallan a lot like a Macallan yeah young Macallan yeah I agree then you get that sherry and because of the age you're getting some really really nice easy to drink notes on the end I would give that a let's see I'll give that a we're gonna give that an 8.2 I like this better than they are and for some for some reason so I would give this 8.5 all right yeah this is more your style more my favorite ending on a on a note here. So when did the whole, I would say, regulations come into scotch whisky? Because for many years they were just doing their own thing. There was no kind of laws and regulations.
• 57:42
  When did it start coming into it? I mean they've been making scotch whisky for 600 years, right?
• 57:47
  So for most of that time it was illicit distilling. I think it was somewhere around the 1800s and early 1900s that things started getting more formalized and then they put in all the kind of rules and regulations. I think it was somewhere around the 1970s where they started defining, okay, single malt has to be three years, to be scotch has to be over 40 percent, stuff like that. So all of that kind of stuff just got a lot more, yeah, a lot more regulated and a lot more clear.
• 58:18
  But interestingly, right, we were talking about Japan. They only did the rules for what could be to be called Japanese whisky. They only made those rules like in the within the last five years. So before that you could bring in whisky from Scotland, bottle it in Japan, and call it Japanese whisky. It's only now in the last few years they go, no, no, you have to actually mature the whisky here in Scotland if you want to, if you want to call it Japanese whisky.
• 58:44
  It's amazing to me as well, I think, that Japanese people never really appreciated Japanese whisky until probably the last 10 years. Now you go to Japan, people drink a lot more Japanese whisky, but you've been going to Japan for the last 20 years. Back when you started going to Japan, nobody really drank Japanese whisky, right? Yeah, I think people drank Japanese whisky, but I think a lot of people would drink... It was more highballs.
• 59:07
  It was highballs. Highballs also have only come in late last 10 years. But I would say Suntory whisky was a go-to whisky that most people drank, right? Suntory has been in Japan since, I don't know, 1870-something or whatever. Yeah, a long time.
• 59:19
  Yeah, so Suntory whisky. But most of us don't know about Suntory whisky because we only know them because they started to create... Yamazaki or Hibiki? Which one was Suntory?
• 59:30
  Suntory is Hibiki. Yeah, so Suntory became famous because of Hibiki, but they had...
• 59:36
  And they bought Jim Beam in the US. Yeah, but Suntory whisky has been in Japan for 200 years, right? So they have a lot of local blends out there.
• 59:44
  Yeah, and what do you think is the future of... Switching topics a little bit because we're going to... We happen to be both going to India next week. What's your take on whisky in the Indian market? I haven't been to India in 20 years, so I'm really excited to go to India and see what's happening there.
• 1:00:00
  From everything I read, obviously, it's growing massively.
• 1:00:05
  What's been happening in India from your perspective in terms of the, there's always been Johnny Walker and Chivas and all that, but it's changed a lot.
• 1:00:13
  Now we're getting into single malt.
• 1:00:14
  Why, what's happening there?
• 1:00:17
  Again, I think it's a generation change, right?
• 1:00:19
  Our parents' generation were all about Black Label and Johnny Walker and the blends.
• 1:00:23
  Yeah, my first whisky ever, probably my first alcoholic drink ever was Cutty Sark with 7-Up, because that's what my dad drank.
• 1:00:31
  And I think I was like 12 or 13 years old and I used to help mix the drinks for my dad and his friends and he'd allow me to have a sip or two.
• 1:00:38
  So Cutty 7-Up was my first experience in alcohol.
• 1:00:43
  Yeah, so my dad used to drink Teachers, which was a local thing, and then Black Label.
• 1:00:48
  So yeah, India has grown up on a whisky palette.
• 1:00:51
  Of course, Old Monk, as you know, and India is known for its Old Monk rum.
• 1:00:54
  Of course, that's there.
• 1:00:56
  Now again, I think with our generation and I see younger generation, a little bit younger, Ian, my brother, there's been a shift.
• 1:01:03
  There's two kinds of drinking in India.
• 1:01:05
  If you're going out drinking, you're still sinking with blend.
• 1:01:08
  You're not going higher.
• 1:01:09
  Because see, I believe there's been a change in the import duty for whisky in India recently.
• 1:01:15
  Yeah, only last year.
• 1:01:16
  Yeah, but it used to be 100% before.
• 1:01:18
  150% actually, and now it's down to 75%.
• 1:01:21
  So buying a good single malt's more expensive in India.
• 1:01:25
  So if you go out for dinner or something, you're paying an arm and leg to drink a good single malt.
• 1:01:29
  So if you went out for dinner in India, you would not be paying that much.
• 1:01:33
  But if you're drinking at home, I think there's been a shift to single malt.
• 1:01:36
  I think there's a lot of education still needed.
• 1:01:38
  Yeah.
• 1:01:39
  So if I have to go back, I would say India and single malt is what China was in wine in 2008 or nine.
• 1:01:46
  They knew about the big brand names in wine, but there was a lot of education to be done about wine, right?
• 1:01:51
  So yes, but today also in India, when it comes to single malt, a lot of people look at single malt, again, okay, McAllen, Glenfiddich, Glenleeway.
• 1:01:59
  That's- That's about it.
• 1:02:00
  That's single malt for them, right?
• 1:02:02
  Those are the three big brands, right?
• 1:02:04
  But when I go back to India, I always carry, thanks to you and thanks to other things of my Scotland trips, I'll carry these small distillery single malts.
• 1:02:14
  And sometimes people have not even heard of them, but they love it.
• 1:02:18
  So it's- It's an education.
• 1:02:20
  It's an education process.
• 1:02:21
  What about Japanese?
• 1:02:21
  I noticed you're not taking any of your 80 bottles of- No, so- You didn't stash Japanese whisky.
• 1:02:27
  No, so Japanese whiskies, I used to take- but then what used to happen is then my brother used to call his friends home and then they used to finish a bottle of Yamazaki 18 in one night.
• 1:02:39
  Who'd say in an hour?
• 1:02:41
  So you don't want them to know that we've given we've given away I hope your brother's not gonna listen to this podcast because now he's gonna be like asking for those bottles you have.
• 1:02:53
  So I did take I did I did take the McAllen 30 for him from house on for both my brothers and one of the end and one of my brothers finished it in a night with his friends and then he kept the other bottle from my other brother so you know but because they've just they love single model my brother's love single model my family loves single model so I think the dedication is coming in India and I do think if you just look at if you just go out by the numbers of black label there's more black label as a black label as India's largest market right yeah India's the largest market for black label in the world and I think I think it will change and I think if import duty changes and comes down further there would be a lot of demand for single model.
• 1:03:34
  Yeah I think that's that's the free trade agreement at least between the UK and India right so it was 150% now it's 75% it goes down to I think 50% in the next five years and it goes down to 40% in the next 10 years so that's the plan and that's the hope that there's a whole massive market in India that's untapped for single malt which is already at a market that enjoys whisky so again half the battles done they're already into whisky they're just not into these kinds of whiskies yet and I think there's money in India for whisky investment because I think a lot of people are still educating themselves on alternative investments in India because everyone still thinks of good stocks and bonds and property property and everything but whisky as an alternative investment is definitely there's room for that in India but although I think the challenge in India is they have to trust someone right so they just don't do it blindly so there's an education needed there's a trust factor to be built but I do know Indians also like that status thing where they're like oh I own two casks in Scotland they'll be very proud to say that to their friends. Right and show the picture yeah their trip to Scotland and I have used these casks and everything. We have to lean into that. Yeah so you have to lean into that and I think there's a market for that. That comes back to what you were saying luxury experience right so you're buying a cask of whisky It's not, hey, I bought a cask of whisky.
• 1:05:04
  I never see it.
• 1:05:05
  It's, I visited it.
• 1:05:06
  Here's a bottle from my cask every year or five bottles or whatever to share with friends.
• 1:05:12
  That whole experience side of it creates a depth of love for what you have, right?
• 1:05:18
  And that's the whole thing.
• 1:05:19
  It's like, okay, it's my dad's 50th birthday or my dad's 75th birthday.
• 1:05:24
  I'm going to give him a bottle from my cask and give it to him for his 75th birthday.
• 1:05:29
  So that's an experience.
• 1:05:30
  Yeah, you share it together.
• 1:05:31
  Versus buying him a bottle of whisky from anywhere.
• 1:05:34
  Right.
• 1:05:35
  So it's all about the whole experience and how do you connect these experiences with the Indian consumers.
• 1:05:41
  I think that's going to make the difference.
• 1:05:43
  Well, we'll find out.
• 1:05:44
  So go in next week and we'll have to have you back on as a guest later on.
• 1:05:48
  And we can talk more about the Indian market.
• 1:05:50
  Thank you so much.
• 1:05:52
  One last question, which I'll ask.
• 1:05:55
  I'm going to start asking every guest.
• 1:05:56
  What's something either personally or professionally that you're looking forward to in the next 12 months?
• 1:06:01
  What's something big you're working on that you're most excited about?
• 1:06:06
  Okay.
• 1:06:06
  That's a tough one.
• 1:06:07
  There are a few big things I was looking forward to.
• 1:06:09
  You can share more than one.
• 1:06:10
  That's all right.
• 1:06:11
  At least one.
• 1:06:12
  Yeah, but I would say last few years as a business has been challenging given COVID and everything.
• 1:06:20
  So I definitely want to bring 2026 business back on its track and really focus on getting people focused and business back on its track to what it used to be.
• 1:06:30
  Of course, all businesses have challenged over the last three, four years.
• 1:06:34
  There are very few businesses that have done well unless you're in the AI space and everything.
• 1:06:39
  Yeah, it's really only the AI at work.
• 1:06:41
  Or if you're making the chips for AI.
• 1:06:44
  Or if you invested in silver.
• 1:06:45
  Yeah, yes.
• 1:06:47
  But no, actually, you know, it's something that we're both part of, EO.
• 1:06:50
  I'm very looking forward to a very good year with EO Greater Bay Area.
• 1:06:56
  Yeah, this is Entrepreneur's Organization for anyone who doesn't know.
• 1:06:59
  So Entrepreneur's Organization been around for I think, what, 30, 40 years?
• 1:07:02
  Yeah, 50 years, 30 years plus.
• 1:07:05
  20,000 members globally.
• 1:07:06
  We got the new Hong Kong chapter Greater Bay Area.
• 1:07:09
  I made a setup last year.
• 1:07:10
  We're close to 40 members.
• 1:07:12
  You know, we've had some great experiences for the members.
• 1:07:14
  We've got some great speakers coming in and plan for this year.
• 1:07:18
  Yeah, and you're going to be taking over as president in July.
• 1:07:21
  So that's a big role.
• 1:07:22
  Yeah, so I'll be taking on as president in July.
• 1:07:24
  Thank you, David.
• 1:07:25
  Yeah.
• 1:07:26
  And yeah, I look forward to that.
• 1:07:28
  I think that's going to be a big part of my life this year.
• 1:07:31
  So, yeah, and work, I would say those two would be my key focuses.
• 1:07:34
  Sounds good. Well, look, thank you so much for your time and for, you know, joining us today.
• 1:07:40
  We tried a few interesting whiskies.
• 1:07:42
  I think from summarizing a little bit, kind of what we saw across these whiskies, which are very unique and very different.
• 1:07:50
  I think the Aaron showed us a different style.
• 1:07:54
  The Ichiro Malt was really an example on how to do marketing well.
• 1:08:00
  And I think they really killed it from that scarcity side.
• 1:08:04
  I think the Glendronic is maybe a bit more what we're seeing in the Scotch industry, more of the non-age statements. And then we ended with a 40-year-old blend, kind of taking us back to some of, I think, classic style, Edrington, McCallan, you know, Sherry style.
• 1:08:20
  And thank you so much for sharing your learnings.
• 1:08:22
  I learned a lot, even though I've known you for so long.
• 1:08:24
  It was actually really great to learn a lot more about the luxury industry, recruitment, how things are going from both the candidates' point of view and from the company's point of view.
• 1:08:37
  And I think there's a lot changing, it sounds like.
• 1:08:39
  So I think that's my kind of key takeaway. Companies are struggling or trying to figure out how to create the right culture.
• 1:08:47
  And candidates are switching, maybe not switching, but seem to care more about just money and title, but also lifestyle and other things.
• 1:08:55
  And how that is going to work together is going to be a big part of, let's say, the next 2, 3, 5, 10 years, right? And how that works.
• 1:09:02
  Yeah, and I think it's true, right? I think the dynamics in the market are shifting.
• 1:09:07
  I think the world economy, the industry, like, you know, if you go back, our fathers, grandfathers' generation was the manufacturing age, right?
• 1:09:14
  Everything was about manufacturing. Then it became about consumer tech.
• 1:09:19
  And now the younger generation is about AI. What's next?
• 1:09:23
  Now people are moving beyond AI.
• 1:09:25
  Now there are people already planning 10 years from now, what's next, right?
• 1:09:28
  So there's this whole shift in the economy, right? By the time 10 years from now, we may not know what it could be like robotic cars flying all over. You never know.
• 1:09:37
  Yeah, well, hopefully there'll still be whisky we can drink.
• 1:09:40
  That's all I really care about.
• 1:09:42
  And hopefully you'll share more of your Japanese stash with me. So cheers, so long.
• 1:09:46
  Cheers, so long. Thank you so much. It was amazing being here.
• 1:09:49
  And thank you for the lovely whiskies.
• 1:09:51
  So a little tradition we have over here is just sign your name on the glass and we'll add it to our collection.
• 1:10:00
  whisky Chief, firstly, thanks so much for watching this episode, it really means a lot to us.
• 1:10:05
  If you can, like and subscribe below, it just really helps us to keep bringing you the best whiskies in the world.
• 1:10:10
  and I'll talk to you soon.