Latest / Transforming: Tales of Business Evolution / TfP 020. Elevating Women's Initiatives to Drive Transformation

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TfP 020. Elevating Women's Initiatives to Drive Transformation · Transforming: Tales of Business Evolution

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FEMALE_1: Welcome to
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"Transforming: Tales of Business Evolution,"
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where we delve into the dynamic world
0:09
of business transformation.
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Each episode is designed for firms
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of any size and scale,
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exploring both innovative long-term planning
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and day-to-day operating practices
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that help organizations adapt
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to a changing landscape.
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Join us each month as we hear from leaders
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in the public accounting profession
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sharing their experiences
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of reshaping their business models
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and inspiring you to explore new ways
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to evolve your own organization.
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Let's dive into this month's conversation now.
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Jaimie Boyd: Hello, and welcome to
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"Transforming: Tales of Business Evolution."
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My name is Jaimie Boyd,
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and I'm a manager with
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the Firm Services team at the AICPA.
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Today's conversation feels especially timely
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because we're recording during March,
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Women's History Month.
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It's a time to celebrate the many contributions
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women have made and continue to make
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across the profession,
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but it's also an opportunity to pause and reflect
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on how we're supporting women today,
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what more we can do to ensure women have access
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to meaningful opportunities, influence,
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and leadership roles moving forward.
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That's exactly where today's conversation
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is going to be focused,
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and we're going to talk about
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what it really takes to promote and support
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the success of women in the profession,
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so I'm really excited to be joined
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by Laura Crowley,
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Partner at Citrin Cooperman
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and member of the
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AICPA's Women's Initiatives Executive Committee,
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and Mandy Gallagher,
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Lead Manager of Women's Initiatives
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here at the AICPA.
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Both are accomplished leaders
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who bring complimentary perspectives
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to this topic.
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With that, Laura and Mandy,
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thank you both for being here.
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I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
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To start us off, can each of you
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briefly introduce yourself and share what you do?
2:13
Laura Crowley: I'm Laura Crowley.
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I'm an Audit Partner at Citrin Cooperman.
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I'm based in our Florham Park, New Jersey, office.
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In that role,
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I lead client service for my client base,
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which is privately-held companies.
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I also lead our Audit department in New Jersey,
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as well as our Manufacturing
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and Distribution Industry group
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within the state of New Jersey.
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I've been with Citrin Cooperman
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about 10 years now.
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Mandy Gallagher: Thanks, Laura,
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and thank you, Jaimie, for inviting us today.
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I'm Mandy Gallagher.
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As Jaimie mentioned, I'm Lead Manager
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for Women's Initiatives,
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and I'm part of our external
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AICPA Diversity and Inclusion staff.
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We work closely with firms, organizations,
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volunteers, and leaders across the profession
2:57
to help build environments
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where women feel supported, see opportunity,
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and can grow into leadership
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in ways that are realistic and sustainable.
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Our efforts are for everyone,
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and we want to recognize the distinct experiences
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that all professionals bring into our workplaces.
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Based out of the Durham, North Carolina, office,
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and I've been at AICPA for almost four years.
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Jaimie Boyd: Thank you, both. Taking a step back,
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what drew you to focus on advancing
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women and inclusion within the profession?
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Laura, if you would like to share first.
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Laura Crowley: Sure. As a woman in the profession,
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I guess that's really where it started for me.
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Early on in my career.
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I would say I was a little bit oblivious
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to maybe some of the challenges
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that women were facing.
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I had worked in smaller firms,
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and so I attributed a lack of progression
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in my career to that environment,
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but as I look back with more information
4:00
I've gained over the years,
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I realized that there were some things
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holding me back,
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some of the stereotypical things.
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The feedback I was getting wasn't actionable
4:09
or things like that
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that were happening early in my career.
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That's really what started to help me focus on,
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what can we do better?
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How can we change
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this perception or this reality for women,
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and how do we make
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so the next generation of women
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are able to be more successful
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more rapidly in their careers,
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if that's what they choose?
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Mandy Gallagher: That really tied in well
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to what I was going to mention.
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Laura talked about it's not
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that women lacked capability,
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that they lacked motivation.
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They just didn't have the structures around them
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that were fully supportive,
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so I think that's, for me, one of the key pieces
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that I see as my role at the AICPA
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and working with my
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Women's Institute Executive Committee is,
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what can we do to support?
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What can we do to build tools and opportunities
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for women to progress in their careers?
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We know that women enter the profession,
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after they graduate,
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in pretty equal numbers as men,
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but they don't always stay.
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They leave within the first three, five years
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in the profession.
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How can we continue to build on
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the momentum we're getting from women
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coming out of college,
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whether it be undergrad or grad school?
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How do we get them to continue on
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and progress their careers
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so they can become the leaders of tomorrow?
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Providing structure,
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providing educational opportunities,
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providing just anything that can help support
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women in their progression in their careers is
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what really has driven me
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to be interested in this work.
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Over time, my focus has really been
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on helping individuals navigate challenges
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to thinking more broadly about
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how we design cultures, expectations, and systems
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that work better for everyone,
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women included.
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Jaimie Boyd: Those are all great reasons
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that you both provided.
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Mandy, like you said,
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I think we need to build on the momentum.
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Despite progress, we still see gaps
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in leadership representation, unfortunately.
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What innovative approaches have you seen
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or would you encourage firms to adopt
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to intentionally build and support
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leadership pathways for women?
6:21
Laura Crowley: I would say intention,
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to me, is the keyword in that.
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If the structures are not created intentionally,
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then it's very easy to fall back
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on the old ways of doing things, the old biases,
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all of those things are easy to fall back on
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if we haven't really made change with intention.
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Then 10 years from now,
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we'll be looking back and having this conversation
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and say, we really didn't make much progress.
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What are we doing?
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I think really the pathways
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that firms and women need to focus on
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are those that drive the business.
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Communication skills, leadership skills,
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all of those are really important,
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but if women aren't driving revenue,
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they're not going to be looked at
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as leaders in firms.
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That's just the business model.
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I think that's where firms need to focus is,
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and women need to focus themselves on,
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how do they get in roles
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where they're growing revenue.
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I would say, especially post-COVID,
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that I think networking and business development
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look a bit different,
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and that has helped to level the playing field
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in some ways.
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There's a lot more virtual options,
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a lot more flexibility,
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a lot less expectation of
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I'm going to spend every night at a cocktail party.
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Most of the women I know
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don't find that very appealing.
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I think building a network or building a space
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that's authentic for you and
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for women that you want to do business with,
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you can really create those situations.
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For example, I have created a networking group,
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and we just have a big round table,
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and we have a topic.
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This month, we talked about feedback,
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giving and receiving .feedback,
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but it's an open conversation among the women,
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and it makes them feel supported.
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They're not alone.
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They have people who are saying,
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that's the girl, that was a great thing to do,
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or you're going to totally crush this.
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Just having that support gives them
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confidence that this is a path
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that they can succeed on.
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That's really where
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I think people need to focus more.
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There's a lot of nice to haves,
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but if we're not focused on
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what business that we're all in,
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then I don't think
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that we're going to move the needle.
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Jaimie Boyd: That's a great perspective.
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Mandy, is there anything from your end,
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innovative approaches that you've seen
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that would encourage firms to support women
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to getting into leadership pathways?
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Mandy Gallagher: Definitely what Laura said about
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building the business, business development,
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obviously, key.
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One of the things you also touched on, Laura,
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that I thought about and I feel like
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we're very in line on this,
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is effective approaches that focus on clarity,
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access, opportunities for women
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to take on stretch work,
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encouraging leaders
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to actively support and recommend talent.
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A lot of women don't see themselves
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necessarily as, I should go up for this promotion.
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Having people there to say,
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you have the skills, you have the abilities,
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we want to see you grow,
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that's an exciting thing to have someone tell you,
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so I think, definitely, being mindful of that.
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Laura also mentioned, making a clear pathway,
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providing that support,
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so that round table that you have, Laura,
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is hugely important to the women
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that you're working with because
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they want to see themselves
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and that they're not alone.
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They have this system of support.
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Then that, ultimately, all those things together,
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I think, really makes leadership look attainable.
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It makes it look worth pursuing,
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and it's just another way
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to keep women in the profession and thriving.
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Jaimie Boyd: I love what you said about having someone
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to pretty much essentially sponsor you
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or women finding that sponsor
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to get that sponsorship.
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There's a lot of talk around, like mentorship.
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I think sponsorship is something that
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is key and every woman needs.
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Mandy Gallagher: If I can put a little plug in for
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our sponsorship tool kit
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that we have on our website.
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If you're curious, if you're a woman,
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and you're thinking,
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I really haven't thought about a sponsor.
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How do I find one?
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Or you're someone within
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an organization or a firm that's a leader,
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and you're thinking about sponsoring someone,
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how do you do it?
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It's a step-by-step tool kit
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that I encourage you to look at.
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It's helpful for both the employee,
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or the person that's being sponsored,
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as well as the person who's sponsoring.
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Just a little plug in there for this tool kit,
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but I do agree, Jaimie,
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you need to have people in your corner
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that are going to put their capital on the line
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and say, I really believe in this person,
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and I think that she would be great.
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Jaimie Boyd: Yes, absolutely. We can include a link to it
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in the show notes as well.
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Laura, could you expand a little bit more on,
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you said you created a networking group,
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and I love the idea
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of networking groups here within PCPS.
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We have several networking groups
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that we work with based on firm sizes,
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but I love the idea of having a networking group
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to have women support each other.
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Can you expand on
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how you went about creating that?
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I'm sure there are others
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that would love to know how to do so
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or even find these types of groups,
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where they can find them.
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Laura Crowley: It was just a a a brain whim at one point
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that I just said, in my area, there had been
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a very strong networking group for women,
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but the person who ran that had retired
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and moved out of state,
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and so it seemed like there was a void,
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but also, I needed to feel
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that there was something that fit me.
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A big giant group of people
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is not necessarily my style.
12:00
What I also found is I attended a lot of seminars
12:05
and leadership programs and things,
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and there's a lot of people talking at you,
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and it's a very valuable learning,
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but when you go back to your day-to-day,
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like I said earlier,
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you fall back on those old patterns
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and the things that are comfortable,
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and you don't really implement.
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This was, for me, a way of,
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really talking about real issues,
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things that matter
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to pretty much all women in business,
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so we try to pick a topic that's pretty general
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so that everyone has experienced it
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and sees the value in it.
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Like I said, we talked about feedback,
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but it's really just to have
12:48
those deeper conversations and
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feel connected to one another.
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The first one we did, it was an experiment,
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but the energy in the room was amazing,
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and so it's been really encouraging
13:01
to continue with that.
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Jaimie Boyd: That's amazing. As firms grow and evolve,
13:07
engagement can look different
13:10
across each career stage.
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From your experience,
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what strategies have you found
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to be most effective for keeping women
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engaged and also supported?
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Laura Crowley: I would say
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there's no one-size-fits-all approach.
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You have to find something that fits in
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your firm culture because
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if it's not part of your culture, it won't stick,
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and like I said before,
13:36
responsive to your business needs,
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so where do you need people
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to step up, step in?
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That's really where you need to focus.
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I think training for women,
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I described like some previous
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programming for women as,
13:53
how do we fix women
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and make them different types of leaders?
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I don't think that women need
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to change their style,
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but maybe they need to feel more confident
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in highlighting their skills
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and be proud of their accomplishments
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and speak to that.
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I think women do generally struggle
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with that a bit.
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Their internalized story is really that,
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I was just lucky until I got here,
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so how do we support them
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in really feeling confident?
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It was their hard work, it was their intelligence,
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their thinking outside the box,
14:30
all of those things that got them
14:31
to where they are.
14:32
In our firm, we have a women's leadership ERG,
14:37
and we have a woman-to-woman mentoring program,
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so that's a one-on-one program.
14:42
It's really to help them grow their careers
14:46
and support them through
14:47
any challenges they might be having.
14:49
Whether it's caregiving
14:51
for a parent or for a child,
14:54
what's affecting them at home,
14:55
but also how can they navigate
14:58
difficult conversations at work?
15:00
Who are the people maybe they need to know?
15:02
We talked about sponsorship, and a lot of times,
15:05
just an internal introduction to the right person
15:07
can really help move somebody's career.
15:10
I may not be the right person because
15:12
I'm not in their service line or their industry
15:14
or something like that,
15:15
but maybe I know somebody,
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and I can make an intro,
15:18
and maybe that helps them,
15:20
so I think it's just really meeting them
15:22
where they are
15:23
and finding those opportunities
15:25
to help them and see them.
15:28
Sometimes just don't let them fade away
15:32
into the shadows,
15:33
pull them out of their comfort zone.
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Jaimie Boyd: I know that's true, and especially here,
15:37
within the accounting profession,
15:39
I feel like a lot of times,
15:40
accountants, we tend to like to go in the shadows
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and sit behind the computer,
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even more so this time of year,
15:49
and I think it's also key to touch on,
15:52
I think, you talking about
15:54
being proud of your accomplishments.
15:56
As women, lot of times we do struggle with that
15:59
to brag about ourselves.
16:01
It's almost like a learned skill
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that I know, even myself, throughout my career,
16:06
I've had to learn that it's okay to say,
16:09
yes, I've done this, and I'm proud of it.
16:12
Mandy, I would love to hear,
16:13
what strategies have you seen
16:15
to be most effective for keeping women
16:17
engaged and supported within firms
16:20
and across their career levels?
16:22
Mandy Gallagher: I think you both have really highlighted
16:24
the most important one.
16:25
It's instilling that sense of confidence
16:28
in what you've accomplished.
16:29
Of course, we're talking about women.
16:31
That's true of anybody.
16:32
We want to be proud of the work that we do
16:34
and what we achieve.
16:36
I think that's, obviously, Step 1.
16:38
Step 2 is that I think we can all do
16:40
a better job listening to one another
16:42
and hearing what people want.
16:44
We had a webcast a couple of years back
16:47
where we talked about sponsorship,
16:48
and we had the person sponsoring
16:50
this other person having a conversation saying,
16:52
I didn't even know you wanted to do that,
16:54
to the woman that he was going to be sponsoring,
16:56
so a lot more listening, conversation,
16:59
and then following through.
17:01
I think, as a woman, we're really anyone.
17:04
When we feel like we've been heard,
17:05
we feel a lot better about our contributions
17:09
to that firm or that organization.
17:11
When we receive feedback,
17:12
when we express feedback,
17:13
looking at how that leads to change
17:16
within your organization or your firm,
17:19
talking about things,
17:20
like the need for flexibility, workload expectations,
17:23
opportunities for development,
17:25
very rarely do we ask,
17:26
what else can I do?
17:28
If you want to achieve that next rung
17:30
in the ladder of success,
17:32
it's important to have those conversations.
17:35
I think ultimately, though, feeling supported,
17:38
feeling like you've been treated fairly over time,
17:41
that really makes a much bigger difference than
17:43
any one single program or one single benefit.
17:45
I just think we need to get back
17:48
from what I said before,
17:49
open up lines of communication, be honest,
17:52
be willing to take feedback,
17:53
be willing to enact it,
17:55
and just really feel like it's an inclusive space
17:58
where you can see the contributions
18:00
that you're making
18:00
and so can those that are around you,
18:02
and you can all work together
18:04
and achieve your goals.
18:06
Jaimie Boyd: Touching on honest and willing to take
18:09
feedback because you can get the feedback,
18:11
but you have to follow through as well.
18:14
Mandy Gallagher: Receiving good feedback,
18:16
not just, you need to be here more,
18:17
but what does that actually lead to?
18:19
How does me being in the office more
18:21
contribute to success?
18:23
Give me some actionable feedback, so to speak.
18:27
I need specifics.
18:28
If I'm receiving feedback,
18:30
tell me how, tell me what you mean.
18:32
Don't use vague language.
18:34
You can provide feedback
18:35
without feeling you're being mean to someone.
18:37
I think providing honest, open feedback,
18:40
it helps you as a member of a firm and organization.
18:44
It also helps that leader to be
18:46
a better leader by providing concrete feedback.
18:49
Jaimie Boyd: These are all great points.
18:51
Laura, I would love for you to talk about,
18:54
what does creating an inclusive culture
18:57
really look like in practice for you at your firm,
19:00
what you've seen day to day?
19:02
Laura Crowley: It's as simple as
19:05
treating each person as an individual,
19:07
but it's also as difficult as
19:09
treating each person as an individual.
19:11
It's meeting them where they are
19:13
and not making assumptions about
19:16
what career they want
19:18
or how fast they want to move in their career
19:20
or what their ultimate goal is.
19:22
Mandy mentioned listening.
19:24
Listening is critical
19:27
and not putting your expectations on that person.
19:33
Yes, we have expectations if you're in this role.
19:36
If you're in a manager role,
19:37
there's technical expectations.
19:38
There's things you need to do to be in that role,
19:41
but whether you want to stay at that level,
19:44
or you want to become partner someday,
19:46
that's your decision to make.
19:49
I feel like we need to just let people
19:52
figure out their own career,
19:54
how they want it to be
19:56
and not put those expectations.
19:58
That means we're not forcing them into a box.
20:01
We're treating each person as an individual
20:03
and giving them the opportunities
20:05
that make sense for them. It's hard.
20:08
You can't just treat everybody the same.
20:12
We're all going to move lockstep.
20:13
That's not how things work.
20:14
It's not a factory.
20:16
We have to really just let people
20:19
figure out their own career.
20:21
Sometimes that may mean that
20:23
their career is not going to stay
20:25
with your organization because
20:26
it's not going to be a fit for them long-term.
20:28
That's not great always,
20:30
but also it's not the end of the world.
20:33
It's going to be better for them in the long run,
20:36
so I think we have to just understand all of that.
20:39
Jaimie Boyd: I think that's also going to be key to
20:42
attracting and retaining talent as well
20:44
in the profession,
20:45
which I know is like a big topic as well,
20:47
also showing people that there are opportunities
20:52
that they may not traditionally think about
20:55
getting involved in, especially women,
20:58
stay in our zone, in our area, in our safety spot,
21:02
without wanting to branch out and try new things.
21:07
Those are all great points
21:09
that you brought up, Laura.
21:10
The PCPS team here at the AICPA,
21:14
we have an ongoing initiative called
21:16
"Transforming Your Business Model,"
21:18
where we offer solutions to help firms
21:20
adapt to the changing landscape
21:24
of the world, essentially.
21:26
With this initiative, we strive to
21:29
highlight the power of inclusion
21:31
and how it will contribute to the growth
21:33
of a firm and the profession as a whole.
21:37
How can firms embed inclusion
21:40
into their operating models,
21:42
specifically, as it relates to strategy, governance,
21:47
and if we touched on talent,
21:48
service offerings, technology,
21:52
instead of relying on just one-off programs
21:56
that just check the box to say they did it.
21:59
Laura, if you want to start.
22:01
Laura Crowley: Definitely. This is the next frontier
22:03
in the whole movement of equity.
22:05
This is like we've been doing
22:07
a lot of one-off things,
22:09
and they're great,
22:10
but they aren't meaningfully changing
22:14
the outcomes.
22:15
That's the next thing.
22:18
Previously, we used the word intentional.
22:20
I think that's also the word to use here.
22:22
How do we embed these things within the process
22:27
so that we're doing it every time?
22:30
One example I was thinking of is
22:32
a very simple example.
22:34
You're hiring a new staff class,
22:37
so you go through, you do all your interviews,
22:40
you have everybody decide,
22:42
who of these candidates we interview
22:44
do we want to make offers to?
22:47
We need to step back and look at the results.
22:50
What did we accomplish?
22:51
Let's just say we interviewed 20 candidates,
22:54
10 men and 10 women,
22:56
because as we said, coming out of school,
22:58
it's pretty equal,
22:59
but when we got to the end,
23:01
all of the offers that we decided on were all men,
23:06
as an example.
23:08
That doesn't mean that's the wrong result.
23:10
It might be the right result.
23:12
Just have that step in the process where
23:15
we take a step back and evaluate that.
23:19
Did we get this result because
23:20
this was the right result
23:22
based on the merits of the individuals,
23:24
or did we get this result because
23:26
there's still bias in the process,
23:29
that the people who were doing the interviewing,
23:32
or the questions that we're asking
23:35
resulted in us getting this?
23:38
If that's the case,
23:41
if somehow bias is skewing that decision,
23:44
then we need to figure that out
23:45
and look for the root cause
23:47
and put in a process that stops that.
23:50
I think it's just iterative process,
23:53
but really taking that step back
23:56
and looking at it with more of a clear head
24:00
instead of just assuming we're hiring on merit.
24:04
Yes, we are, but that doesn't mean
24:06
it's not biased in that system.
24:08
We're not lowering our expectations
24:10
or lowering what we're looking for.
24:12
We're just making sure
24:13
that we're actually evaluating people fairly.
24:16
Mandy Gallagher: I think what Laura touched on is
24:19
a lot of the key points that I wanted to make.
24:21
I do think that,
24:22
even if leadership doesn't want to think about
24:26
how to embed inclusion into everything
24:29
that the firm does,
24:30
they have to.
24:32
Our newer emerging talent coming out of college,
24:36
first couple of years in the profession,
24:38
they're going to demand it.
24:39
That doesn't mean that you need to,
24:41
say, I like to sleep in late,
24:43
and I don't want to start work until 10:00 AM.
24:45
That's not what we're talking about.
24:47
We're talking about showing up,
24:48
contributing what makes you distinct,
24:51
what you bring to the table,
24:52
and really talking about it as,
24:55
how do you fit into our organization and also
24:58
how does the organization fit into alignment
24:59
with what you, as an emerging talent,
25:02
and the profession wants?
25:04
I think that you can't just do a one-off.
25:06
I think, Jaimie, about how you're, like,
25:07
no checking boxes,
25:08
but people will see right through that,
25:10
and they'll say,
25:11
they just want to get a lot of people
25:12
to apply and to interview.
25:15
Now you have to do it every single day,
25:17
and it is what Laura mentioned, intentional.
25:20
It looks at things like
25:21
how not only its staff is evaluated
25:24
but your leaders are evaluated,
25:25
how teams are staffed,
25:27
how decisions are made about
25:28
who gets promoted, who doesn't,
25:31
what opportunities are there
25:32
for these staff members to grow,
25:35
how policies and even technology
25:38
support different ways of working,
25:39
so recognizing that not everyone wants
25:43
to fit into that traditional model of
25:45
being in the office at all hours of the day,
25:49
never getting to see family and friends,
25:51
never getting a chance to take care of themselves,
25:53
to go take a yoga class, to go for a walk,
25:56
to do whatever it is,
25:57
understanding that there's different ways
25:59
people work.
26:00
We can all be productive
26:01
but just acknowledging that there's not
26:02
one right or wrong way of doing things.
26:05
Then when all those considerations are built into
26:08
your organization's strategy and your governance,
26:11
inclusion becomes more consistent,
26:13
and it becomes sustainable.
26:14
Let's face it.
26:15
You put a lot of effort into some of these efforts,
26:17
and you don't do them every day,
26:20
day in and day out,
26:21
they're not going to be sustainable.
26:23
You're going to be going back
26:23
to the drawing board each time.
26:24
We don't have time for that.
26:26
We don't have time to lose staff, hire new staff,
26:29
retrain staff, hope they stay,
26:32
only to have the process repeated.
26:33
If you can embed inclusive strategies
26:37
into your practice, it's been shown,
26:39
there's research out there showing
26:40
that if staff are more happy,
26:42
they're less likely to want to leave.
26:44
They're more likely to want
26:45
to take on stretch assignments
26:47
and advance within your firm and your organization.
26:49
You don't have to spend so much time
26:51
onboarding new people every couple of years
26:53
or even more frequent than that.
26:56
I think that's really important.
26:58
It is a very big process to start, like Laura said.
27:01
If it was something that could be solved
27:02
with a snap of a finger, we'd all be doing it.
27:05
There's a lot of trial and error,
27:07
but I really think, getting back
27:08
to a point that I made earlier,
27:10
there just needs to be more
27:11
open conversation, more listening,
27:13
being intentional about
27:15
how we structure the work
27:17
within our organizations and our firms.
27:19
I encourage folks to think holistically.
27:23
Where do you want your firm to be in five years?
27:25
Do you want to continue to have this turnover,
27:28
or do you want to have
27:28
some stability and leadership?
27:29
I think most of us would say
27:30
stability and leadership is the way to go,
27:32
so we have to start,
27:34
and the time to start is now, if not earlier.
27:37
Jaimie Boyd: Key question, where do you want
27:39
your firm to be in five years?
27:40
That has to be part of your strategic planning.
27:43
Mandy Gallagher: Five years and beyond.
27:45
Jaimie Boyd: Exactly, and that you're taking into account
27:48
ways that you're being inclusive
27:50
into your strategic planning,
27:52
and I think that is super important
27:54
that firms follow through with that,
27:56
but from a profession-wide perspective
28:00
and from a firm-level experience,
28:03
where do you see alignment between
28:06
what firms want to achieve for women
28:09
and what actually works in practice?
28:12
On the flip side, where do the gaps remain?
28:15
Laura Crowley: I don't think there's any gaps between
28:18
what firms want to do
28:21
for both men and women in their firms.
28:23
They want everybody to succeed.
28:26
Mandy talked about
28:27
a lot of great inclusion strategies,
28:29
and just to be clear,
28:30
those don't just benefit women.
28:33
Those benefit everyone.
28:35
The gaps really come in the execution.
28:38
As we've said, it's not easy to do,
28:42
but because we haven't embedded these processes
28:46
in what we're doing every day, it's just easy.
28:50
We go back to what we're used to doing.
28:52
We just go back to the same old way,
28:55
but I do think the shifts are coming.
28:58
These are just like things I'm seeing in my firm.
29:02
The number of men taking parental leave,
29:05
greatly increasing.
29:07
That's a message
29:08
that the societal culture is changing,
29:12
that men are more embracing caregiving roles
29:16
than they traditionally have,
29:18
and that's good for women because,
29:21
if men are taking some of that caregiving role,
29:24
the women also have more opportunities
29:28
to build their careers.
29:29
Also, just younger women coming out of school,
29:33
they have way more confidence
29:34
than I would say I did when I was in that position.
29:38
They speak up.
29:39
They ask for what they want.
29:41
I think it's fantastic.
29:43
I always would have been so afraid to do that.
29:47
I think them coming through
29:49
and having that confidence early in their careers
29:52
is going to really move the needle for them
29:55
because they're not waiting for somebody
29:58
to ask them.
29:59
They are going to ask for what they want,
30:01
and that's really going to be a game changer.
30:04
It's like, how do we leverage these things
30:06
that are happening?
30:07
How do we change the narrative?
30:11
We expect the women are going to leave because
30:13
they're going to want to have kids.
30:14
No. That's not necessarily true anymore.
30:17
Women are just as ambitious as men,
30:18
whether they want to be mothers or not,
30:21
so how do we change that narrative
30:23
and not make those assumptions going forward?
30:26
Mandy Gallagher: Really echoing what Laura just said,
30:28
most firms genuinely want their staff
30:30
to stay, to grow, to step into leadership,
30:33
and this, of course, includes women,
30:35
but it's everyone.
30:36
Like I mentioned before,
30:37
we don't want to have the constant turnover,
30:39
constant onboarding,
30:40
constant "let's figure out if this person
30:42
will be suitable for this promotion or not."
30:44
I think the gap sometimes still remain
30:46
in just consistency across the board,
30:48
just how we actually enact
30:51
inclusive practices, etc.
30:53
Informal processes,
30:55
something that hasn't ever been done before.
30:58
That's great. Let's document it.
30:59
Let's have a process.
31:00
When this comes up again,
31:01
we'll have something in place.
31:03
Uneven expectations, like what Laura said,
31:06
this particular woman,
31:08
she's going to want to have a baby.
31:09
She's going to have the baby.
31:10
We're never going to see her again.
31:12
Don't make assumptions.
31:14
Again, like I said before, talk.
31:16
Have a conversation. Listen.
31:19
Honestly, some people just may
31:21
want to take some time off
31:22
just for a mental health recharge.
31:24
That's a whole focus now too
31:26
that I think a lot of us, myself included,
31:28
when I was coming out of college,
31:30
we just worked.
31:31
We didn't think about our mental health,
31:32
and we should have.
31:33
People just need to be mindful of the fact
31:35
that there's a lot more awareness,
31:37
which I think also Laura contributes to,
31:39
when we look at women,
31:40
their confidence, their ability to ask
31:42
for what they want and not be afraid to do so.
31:45
Just having that open honest conversation
31:48
is something that I definitely think
31:49
needs to be in alignment.
31:51
It's definitely something that's still here,
31:53
and people are looking for that conversation to happen.
31:57
Also, a lack of shared accountability
31:59
can undermine good intentions.
32:01
There's always that saying when I was in
32:02
an undergrad and even grad school.
32:04
I hated group projects.
32:06
I was always the one that did all the work
32:08
but got none of the credit.
32:09
That stuff doesn't stand anymore.
32:11
People don't want
32:12
the people that are on your coattails
32:14
receiving all the credit.
32:16
I think a lot of times women are
32:17
less likely to say,
32:18
no, that's not what really happened,
32:20
but we all need to be a lot more
32:21
honest about how work gets done,
32:23
and we need to treat each other equally, fairly,
32:26
and acknowledge the work that's been undergone.
32:30
I think, for me, looking at it,
32:33
what tends to work best in practice
32:35
is just clarity, follow through, good leadership,
32:39
and ownership of outcomes.
32:41
Jaimie Boyd: You need to have leaders
32:43
that are also walking the walk.
32:45
Mandy Gallagher: Yeah, not just checking off
32:46
that little box we talked about a little bit ago.
32:49
Jaimie Boyd: Right, exactly.
32:51
As you think about the priorities of
32:54
the Women's Initiatives Executive Committee
32:57
and all the great work that you guys are doing there,
33:00
where do you see the biggest opportunity
33:03
for real impact over the next few years?
33:07
What gives you hope
33:08
that a meaningful change is possible?
33:11
Laura Crowley: I just went right to the end part of
33:14
that question of, what gives you hope?
33:16
I think maybe getting close
33:19
to a critical mass of women
33:21
in leadership positions.
33:22
As more women get that seat at the table,
33:26
many of them have built their own table.
33:28
They've started their own firms
33:30
in order to be able to have their voices
33:33
be the voice in the room
33:36
and that is shifting the power dynamic.
33:40
I think really, as women leaders,
33:42
we need to use our voice
33:44
and advocate for other women.
33:47
That's highlighting when we see biases
33:50
in our day to day,
33:52
calling that out not in a negative way,
33:56
but just like, did you consider this thing?
33:59
Being a cheerleader for women because,
34:01
as we've said,
34:02
women tend to not brag about themselves,
34:06
so being that cheerleader
34:07
for someone else's accomplishments
34:09
really can help them in their career,
34:11
and I think I said this before,
34:14
the people that hide behind their work,
34:16
their heads down.
34:17
Look for them
34:18
and find an opportunity where they can shine,
34:21
no matter how small that is.
34:23
Sometimes it just takes that little nudge
34:25
or saying, you be up in front,
34:28
you lead this training, or you do this thing.
34:32
That can give them confidence
34:35
to do the next thing on their own.
34:37
It's just like looking for those opportunities,
34:39
and I think,
34:40
as more women are in leadership positions,
34:43
they are starting to look out for the women
34:45
that are coming out behind them
34:47
and trying to help them maybe have
34:48
an easier path than they did themselves.
34:51
Jaimie Boyd: They are lifting as they climb.
34:52
Laura Crowley: Yes, great.
34:54
Jaimie Boyd: Mandy, what do you see
34:56
as the biggest opportunity,
34:58
and what gives you hope
34:59
that meaningful change can happen?
35:01
Mandy Gallagher: We all have good intentions.
35:04
Sometimes good intentions can lead
35:06
to a very overwhelming sense of,
35:07
what do I do, how do I start, how do I get there,
35:10
so looking at the connection between
35:12
intention and actual action.
35:15
Many firms, I would say most firms,
35:18
want to support women,
35:19
but they need practical tools,
35:20
they need shared lessons, best practices,
35:23
real examples to show how that commitment
35:25
can turn into consistent behavior
35:28
which, let's face it, will help their business
35:30
because we all want to make sure
35:32
our businesses are successful.
35:33
This means moving past just
35:35
we really value inclusive culture
35:38
to how are you actually doing that
35:40
within your firm or organization?
35:43
How are you being held accountable?
35:45
How are you looking at everyday actions,
35:47
like how the work is assigned,
35:49
how feedback is used, how feedback is given?
35:52
If leaders can see
35:53
concrete examples of what works,
35:55
action feels a lot more achievable
35:57
in a more realistic timeline.
36:01
I think what gives me hope is
36:03
the level of engagement across the profession,
36:05
whether it be like an event
36:06
like the Women's Global Leadership Summit
36:08
or just podcast, webcast articles
36:13
that you come across.
36:14
There's a lot more engagement around this topic.
36:17
I think we're recognizing the fact that
36:19
there's fewer people that are going to college
36:21
to go and get a four-year degree.
36:23
There's fewer people just to pull from
36:26
to pursue a career in the accounting profession,
36:28
so really listening to
36:30
what our emerging talent is looking for,
36:34
and also, I don't want to forget those
36:36
that are returning to the workplace
36:37
after a leave or maybe a midlife career change.
36:42
How can we pull them into the conversation?
36:44
How can we keep our existing staff
36:46
and leadership engaged?
36:49
There is a lot more engagement,
36:50
but there needs to be continued conversation.
36:52
This is not a solved area yet.
36:57
We need to ask better questions,
36:59
we need to have more honest conversations
37:01
and show a real willingness
37:02
to learn from one another.
37:04
I think that openness is what turns momentum
37:06
into lasting change.
37:08
There's a lot
37:10
that definitely can feel overwhelming,
37:13
but I see this as a group undertaking.
37:17
It's not something
37:18
that's done in isolation at one firm,
37:19
within one person.
37:22
It's a collective effort and from a AICPA standpoint,
37:27
we have tools and resources and expertise
37:30
and guidance available to everyone to use.
37:33
Jaimie, I'm glad you mentioned
37:35
the "Transforming Your Business Model."
37:37
That's an excellent place to start.
37:38
Jaimie Boyd: Yes, absolutely.
37:40
I encourage anyone to check out the resources
37:44
that we have available on our website.
37:47
You both have done amazing things,
37:49
and I'm sure that you will continue
37:51
pushing for women's initiatives and,
37:55
honestly, just changing the future or
37:57
the profession in the best way possible,
38:00
and I really appreciate having you both
38:03
join us today.
38:04
I look forward to seeing all the great things
38:08
that come from both of you.
38:10
Mandy Gallagher: Happy Women's History Month
38:11
for all of you that choose to celebrate,
38:14
which should be everyone.
38:15
Jaimie Boyd: Thank you, both.
38:16
Laura Crowley: Thank you.
38:19
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38:22
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38:24
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38:27
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38:28
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38:47
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38:50
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