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Carol Orsborn – Spiritual Aging · Vox Novus with Victor Fuhrman

0:05
Speaker 1: Vox Novus, the New Voice, Vox Novus, the New Dimension.
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Speaker 1: Vox Novus thought and movement leaders who will share from
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Speaker 1: their experience and offer tools to help us navigate our
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Speaker 1: rapidly changing world. My name is Victor Furman. Welcome to
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Speaker 1: Vox Novus, the New Voice. Many of us navigating the
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Speaker 1: years beyond midlife report high self acceptance, freedom, and joy. However,
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Speaker 1: there can also be bouts of second guessing and regret,
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Speaker 1: and the occasional longing to be reminded that you're not
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Speaker 1: alone in this. My guest this week on Vox Novus,
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Speaker 1: Carol Orsbourne says conscious aging can make spiritual secrets growing
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Speaker 1: older both wiser and fiercer. Carol Orsbourne is a leader
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Speaker 1: in the conscious aging movement and editor in chief of
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Speaker 1: Fierce with Age, The Digest of Boomer Wisdom, Inspiration and Spirituality.
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Speaker 1: The author of more than thirty five books, including The
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Speaker 1: Spirituality of Age with Robert Weber and Older Wiser Fiercer,
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Speaker 1: as well as popular blogs on huffingtonPost and beliefnet dot com.
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Speaker 1: She served on the faculties of Georgetown University, Loyola Marramount University,
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Speaker 1: and Pepperdine University. Her website is Carolorsbourne dot com and
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Speaker 1: she joins me this week to discuss her latest book,
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Speaker 1: Spiritual Aging Weekly Reflections for Embracing Life. Please join me
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Speaker 1: in welcoming to Vox Novis Carol Orsbourne. Welcome, Carol, Hey Victor.
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Speaker 2: So good to meet you, and I got a little
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Speaker 2: glimpse of you, so I feel like we'orld friends.
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Speaker 1: There you go, Carol, please share with us your path
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Speaker 1: and how you were called to the wisdom that you
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Speaker 1: share with our world.
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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I'm gonna have to go way back, because
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Speaker 2: when I was sixteen, my temple in the North Shore
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Speaker 2: Congregation Israel invited me to run the youth group. They
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Speaker 2: decided that it would be great for somebody from the
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Speaker 2: group to call the people back together, and that when
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Speaker 2: we went off to college, when we would come back
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Speaker 2: in the summers, we would gather. And I said, okay,
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Speaker 2: that's fine, but only if you allow me to go
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Speaker 2: visit ashrams and mosques and the American Theological Theosophical Society
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Speaker 2: was there. I was so curious about everything in the world,
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Speaker 2: and they did. They gave me the van and Kurt
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Speaker 2: Blanche and I sat at the feet of Mass and
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Speaker 2: it just was. It put a taste in my mouth,
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Speaker 2: so that when I got a little bit older, I
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Speaker 2: got to go off on my own to Europe and
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Speaker 2: I sat at the feet of Krishnamurdi, and I was
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Speaker 2: also in an ashram once with Muktinanda. So you know,
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Speaker 2: I was curious, and I didn't settle anywhere in particular,
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Speaker 2: but I absorbed a lot from all over the place.
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Speaker 1: And specifically about your work with spiritual aging. Where did
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Speaker 1: that come in.
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Speaker 2: Well, from that point on, I brought spiritual curiosity and
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Speaker 2: growth and learning and just gathered like a snowball going
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Speaker 2: down the cliff. I just kept getting bigger and bigger.
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Speaker 2: So I really realized that I needed a new idea
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Speaker 2: about what aging meant to me. When I got to university,
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Speaker 2: actually I got my master's theological studies, that was fine,
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Speaker 2: and then I got my doctorate in history and critical
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Speaker 2: theory of religion and was very interested in spiritual development
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Speaker 2: and also life stage development. So that's what I studied
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Speaker 2: with the assumption that even though I was I thought
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Speaker 2: I didn't know if I was young or old. But
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Speaker 2: I was forty nine at the time I got accepted
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Speaker 2: into the doctorate program at Vanderbilt and was highly I
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Speaker 2: was still publishing books and articles and giving talks all
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Speaker 2: over the world. I just assumed I would get a
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Speaker 2: ten year track position. But when I turned fifty, I
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Speaker 2: couldn't even get an interview. So I aged out, and
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Speaker 2: I had all these expertise, and oh my gosh, at
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Speaker 2: that point, I realized that academia and the scholarly approach
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Speaker 2: to aging hadn't prepared me for the actual experience of aging.
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Speaker 2: And I slipped and slid over or back into the
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Speaker 2: world and realm of mystic saints and sages for finishing school.
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Speaker 2: So I have both the academic training about what the
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Speaker 2: scholars say about life stages and our spiritual and psychological
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Speaker 2: development over time, and then I really had my finishing
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Speaker 2: school with the mystics.
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Speaker 1: We often hear about a lifetime being divided into three acts.
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Speaker 1: The first act is about youth and education, the second
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Speaker 1: act career and family, and the third act wisdom, self
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Speaker 1: actualization and legacy. How do you define the third act
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Speaker 1: and what inspired your body of work at this time?
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Speaker 2: Well, that's a very astute question. And you know, I
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Speaker 2: really love the Hindu conception of the different stages of life.
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Speaker 2: They put it differently, but you know, you go through
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Speaker 2: the householder stage where you are running your family and
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Speaker 2: contributing to society and active and you know, in the mainstream,
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Speaker 2: and then there's multiple stages beyond that of you know,
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Speaker 2: first you go out into the forest and it's communal
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Speaker 2: and you're there to offer wisdom to the people who
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Speaker 2: come seek you out. And then the stage beyond that
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Speaker 2: is you're not even You're just communing with with God.
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Speaker 2: You know, it's just you and your heart, and it's
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Speaker 2: not even communal anymore necessarily, And for me, I began
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Speaker 2: to understand that aging held the potential to be a
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Speaker 2: spiritual experience. So when I started on that track, I
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Speaker 2: thought that I would bring spirituality to aging and make
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Speaker 2: aging more palatable. Somehow I didn't understand that for me
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Speaker 2: and for many mystics, aging itself is the spiritual path,
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Speaker 2: is the spiritual training, is the spiritual experience.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely. Before we discuss your latest book, Spiritual Aging, let's
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Speaker 1: look at some of your earlier works on the topic,
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Speaker 1: starting with the Spirituality of Age, written in conjunction with
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Speaker 1: doctor Robert L. Weber. What inspired this book and what
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Speaker 1: do you and doctor Weber share with readers.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that was ten years ago, and I'm
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Speaker 2: very proud because we won a national award for this work.
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Speaker 2: But we were way ahead of the market. People are
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Speaker 2: waking up now, and I think actually the last election
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Speaker 2: and the disappointment that many of us are feeling an
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Speaker 2: older age that we might not get what we hope
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Speaker 2: to get for out of external reality in this lifetime
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Speaker 2: is going to manifest necessarily, so there's kind of a
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Speaker 2: burgeoning of interest. But back then we were really way showers,
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Speaker 2: you know, our lamp, way out ahead of the market.
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Speaker 2: But we met at the American Society of Aging, which
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Speaker 2: God bless them. They're very involved in the social aspect,
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Speaker 2: medical aspects, caregiving aspects of aging, but not so much
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Speaker 2: into the spiritual aspects. And I was so impressed with
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Speaker 2: this man. He was a psychologist that was from Harvard
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Speaker 2: and was had a big practice and a big reputation,
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Speaker 2: and he was talking about aging as a monastic experience
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Speaker 2: and I was I just love that terminology. I was
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Speaker 2: coming up with different terminology of my own. And after
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Speaker 2: his talk, we we bumped into each other on a stairwell,
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Speaker 2: as sometimes miraculously happens in life, and I said to him,
8:44
Speaker 2: you know, I would love to know. I feel called,
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Speaker 2: on the one hand, to like withdraw from from the
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Speaker 2: world right now and really take the time to develop myself.
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Speaker 2: So I was sixty seven at the time. You know,
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Speaker 2: I'd love to back off and really developed myself spiritually.
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Speaker 2: But at the other hand, I've never known so much,
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Speaker 2: and I feel really called to continue writing books and
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Speaker 2: to contribute. And I expected this wisdom to come out
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Speaker 2: of his mouth. You know, I thought I was just
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Speaker 2: going to sit there and soak it up, and instead
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Speaker 2: he said me too. So that started the dialogue. Actually
9:22
Speaker 2: we were sixty five because we spent two years talking
9:25
Speaker 2: to each other every week on the phone, and we
9:29
Speaker 2: turned that dialogue into this book. So the book is
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Speaker 2: Questions and Answers, the fifty most important questions we think
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Speaker 2: you need to ask yourself from, you know, as you're
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Speaker 2: approaching older age. And I think that the richness of
9:43
Speaker 2: the dialogue is that I was a Jewish academic and
9:47
Speaker 2: he was a former Jesuit psychologist. And I was a
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Speaker 2: woman and he was a man. I have children, he didn't,
9:57
Speaker 2: so we had a lot of contrasts, and yet there
10:02
Speaker 2: seemed to be a perennial truth that we both kept
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Speaker 2: centering around. And so, you know, neither of us liked
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Speaker 2: the pedantic style of teaching, where the guru model, where
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Speaker 2: you know, I tell you what aging is and then
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Speaker 2: you do it. And he didn't like that either. So
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Speaker 2: we thought questions and answers and dialoguing and involving people
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Speaker 2: was the best way to kind of stimulate some real
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Speaker 2: change in our society. It's certainly for individuals.
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Speaker 1: Please tell us about your novel, Angelica's Last Breath.
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Speaker 2: I haven't been asked about that book for a long time.
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Speaker 2: It is. It's a pet book of mine because the
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Speaker 2: way I learned about aging, I said, I studied mystics
10:51
Speaker 2: and sages and people like that. I heard about the
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Speaker 2: book by Tolstoy, The Death of Ivan Iliat, and I
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Speaker 2: probably said that wrong, even on I Lias, I don't know,
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Speaker 2: but I heard that that that that was like the
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Speaker 2: definitive statement of what death and dying is about, and
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Speaker 2: that it was actually taught in medical schools to doctors
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Speaker 2: so that they would have more compassion for people who
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Speaker 2: were in those last stages of life. And so I
11:21
Speaker 2: thought I would read the book, and it's a it's
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Speaker 2: a little book, but it's it's extremely dense, and it's
11:28
Speaker 2: written about this middle manager in the eighteen hundreds who
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Speaker 2: is just this bitter, you know, arrogant guy and goes
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Speaker 2: through this brutal, long fight against an illness and and
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Speaker 2: loses his friends. Of fact, it's a horrible book, really,
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Speaker 2: but I'll give the ending away. You know, in the end,
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Speaker 2: even he becomes enlightened. It's you know, after his final breath,
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Speaker 2: or as his final breath is out of him, all
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Speaker 2: of a sudden he understands the whole scope of his
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Speaker 2: life and what it was about, and becomes enlightened. And
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Speaker 2: I thought to myself, Wow, a couple of things. Wouldn't
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Speaker 2: it be great if? And so many hospice workers say
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Speaker 2: the same thing. People get it, but they get it
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Speaker 2: with their last breath. Well why wait until your last breath?
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Speaker 2: You know, what would it take to have that experience,
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Speaker 2: you know, in your fifties or your sixties and then
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Speaker 2: live in that place of being beloved and enlightened? And
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Speaker 2: I thought it was all in this book because he
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Speaker 2: really peels away the masks that separate us from from
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Speaker 2: merger with the divine. And but his language is so arcane.
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Speaker 2: I wrote Angelica's Last Breath to I put it into
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Speaker 2: a contemporary public relations professional who is, you know, betrayed
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Speaker 2: by one of her clients, and it gets diagnosed with
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Speaker 2: breast cancer and things that I could identify with or
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Speaker 2: actually had gone through. And uh it was. It was
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Speaker 2: a personally meaningful book for me because it showed me,
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Speaker 2: page by page through the eyes of Tolstoy in my
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Speaker 2: own life. What were the blockages that I was putting up?
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Speaker 2: What was the masks that I was carrying that was
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Speaker 2: preventing me from having this sense of acceptance of aging
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Speaker 2: and the belief that in the end that it would
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Speaker 2: be this uplifting could be this uplifting experience.
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Speaker 1: Your book Older Wiser Fiercer is a classic. We can
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Speaker 1: understand the older and wiser, but why Fiercer?
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Speaker 2: Well, I was in a moment of rebellion against the
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Speaker 2: idea of aging gracefully. First of all, I was not
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Speaker 2: aging gracefully. I was kicking and screaming, sometimes in protest
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Speaker 2: against my own aging. But also I was not feeling
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Speaker 2: the serenity that we were promised at that point. And
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Speaker 2: I think about Gail she she wrote the book Passages
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Speaker 2: that mark so many of our You know, I read
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Speaker 2: that book when I was in my twenties or thirties,
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Speaker 2: and it was the first. It was my introduction to
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Speaker 2: life stage and spiritual development. And in her book, you know,
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Speaker 2: she gave every life stage. You know, midlife got forty pages,
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Speaker 2: adolescens gets forty pages, she gets to sixty, it's sixty plus.
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Speaker 2: That's it, sixty plus. And she called it the serene sixties.
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Speaker 2: And it got a couple of pages. And I know, Gail,
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Speaker 2: she passed, but she and I became friends, and she
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Speaker 2: was not a serene older person. She was the kind
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Speaker 2: of vital, alive, questioning, you know, self looking looking at
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Speaker 2: her soul, doing, doing life review, all that kind of
14:58
Speaker 2: stuff that keeps us vital until the end. So I
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Speaker 2: just didn't. I didn't. To me, it's older and wiser, yes,
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Speaker 2: but there's something else. And where I got fiercer from
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Speaker 2: was from Florida, Scott Maxwell, who was a psychologist. She
15:17
Speaker 2: actually studied with Jung and she was a therapist and
15:22
Speaker 2: at the age of eighty five, fifty years ago, she
15:24
Speaker 2: wrote a book called The Measure of My Days and
15:29
Speaker 2: in it she just journaled what it was like to
15:32
Speaker 2: be what I wanted to be someday. She was eighty
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Speaker 2: five and more passionate and more alive than ever. But
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Speaker 2: she was also truth telling. She was saying how hard
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Speaker 2: things were and how bad the times were. She wasn't
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Speaker 2: sugarcoating things. And at that time when I read this book,
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Speaker 2: I can't remember how many years ago. It was now
15:54
Speaker 2: around the time that I wrote Older, Wiser, Fiercer. You know,
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Speaker 2: all the books who were out there in the world
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Speaker 2: and were things like, here's how you can stay in
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Speaker 2: mid life forever. Just take more B twelve. You know,
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Speaker 2: here's my exercise regime. Here's how to stay positive and
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Speaker 2: happy about aging no matter what you know. Here's how
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Speaker 2: to control your fate in your future. And you know,
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Speaker 2: all those books just felt like they were in denial
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Speaker 2: or romanticizing, and I was craving, craving somebody who would
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Speaker 2: both tell the truth about reality and still have an
16:32
Speaker 2: upbeat idea about what it means to be alive to
16:36
Speaker 2: the very end. And so that's where that notion came from.
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Speaker 2: She uses the word fiercer, and happily, ironically, I discovered
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Speaker 2: later so did Ramdas He also talked a lot about fierceness,
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Speaker 2: being fierce with age.
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Speaker 1: That's interesting. Yeah, I assured with you that I turned
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Speaker 1: seventy two a couple of weeks ago, and for me,
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Speaker 1: the last five years of life have been probably the
17:01
Speaker 1: most peaceful years of my life because I'm doing things
17:05
Speaker 1: that I enjoy doing. Many of the things that I
17:07
Speaker 1: do help other people. And I I'm in love with
17:11
Speaker 1: my wife, and I'm in love with my life and
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Speaker 1: my kids and my family, and I just feel the
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Speaker 1: sense of peace.
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Speaker 2: Well, Victor, I admire you. I think that how can
17:26
Speaker 2: I put this? I have moments like that, I have
17:31
Speaker 2: extended moments like that, but I also get thrown into
17:40
Speaker 2: tumult and chaos. And I have come to realize that
17:47
Speaker 2: my philosophy of spirituality comes from Florida Scott Maxwell's. It
17:53
Speaker 2: comes to the idea of expanding to embrace the entirety
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Speaker 2: of the human potential, and if I am peaceful to
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Speaker 2: be so grateful for that, but not to leave out
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Speaker 2: for me what has become important. You know, I've been
18:11
Speaker 2: through long periods of personal denial where I've just checked
18:15
Speaker 2: out in order to transcend reality, but especially in these times,
18:21
Speaker 2: I can't. It's just breaking for me. And so I
18:25
Speaker 2: say a broken heart is an open heart, and what
18:28
Speaker 2: my heart is open to are some emotions I had
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Speaker 2: previously denied, like righteous anger, bittersweet sadness, loving myself even
18:41
Speaker 2: if I feel hopeless at times. So for me, my
18:46
Speaker 2: definition of spirituality is comes from those. And there's different
18:50
Speaker 2: schools of mysticism, you know, but the mystics that I
18:55
Speaker 2: follow believe in two major tenants, and that is the
18:59
Speaker 2: first is that you have to accept reality for it
19:02
Speaker 2: can't help for what it can't help being. You know,
19:06
Speaker 2: reality is going to spin out of our control, and
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Speaker 2: you have to be able and willing to look at
19:13
Speaker 2: in the face and say, yes, this hurts, this is bad,
19:16
Speaker 2: I don't like this. At the same time, and here's
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Speaker 2: the challenge is to grow spiritually to the point where
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Speaker 2: you know that even if your life in the world
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Speaker 2: is not behaving the way you wish it would, and
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Speaker 2: that you're stuck in powerlessness, that you are beloved no
19:33
Speaker 2: matter what. So that's, you know, that's more of my reality,
19:38
Speaker 2: especially at this moment.
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Speaker 1: And I agree with you on that. The thing that
19:42
Speaker 1: changed my life. You and I have the commonality of
19:45
Speaker 1: both having attended the New Seminary in New York City
19:48
Speaker 1: many years ago. Yes, I attended in the mid to
19:51
Speaker 1: late nineties. You attended in the early twenty tens. I
19:54
Speaker 1: think you had.
19:54
Speaker 3: Said yes, huh.
19:55
Speaker 1: And the founder, Rabbi Joseph Gelberman, used to share an expression,
20:00
Speaker 1: and there was a Hebrew expression ha call bista. The
20:04
Speaker 1: literal translation is everything is in order. But he used
20:07
Speaker 1: to go beyond that. He used to say, everything is
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Speaker 1: unfolding in divine order. We may not be able to
20:13
Speaker 1: see it, we may ununderstand it, we may dislike things
20:16
Speaker 1: that are happening, but ultimately there's a higher purpose in
20:19
Speaker 1: everything that transpired. And when he said that, that teaching
20:23
Speaker 1: changed my life because I started seeing it in everything
20:25
Speaker 1: in my life. And I'm grateful to him for that training.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, one of the things that a spiritual
20:33
Speaker 2: perspective gives you is the ability to look at long
20:37
Speaker 2: spans of time and not to be so self an
20:40
Speaker 2: ego centric. So you think it's all about you, I mean,
20:43
Speaker 2: I think my mistake is a member of the baby
20:45
Speaker 2: boomer generation. And I'm just five years older than you. No,
20:48
Speaker 2: I'm a little older. I'm seventy six turning seventy seven
20:51
Speaker 2: next week.
20:52
Speaker 1: Actually, happy birthday.
20:54
Speaker 2: Thank you. Now I can't remember what I was gonna say.
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Speaker 2: I got stuck at my birthday. You know, it is
21:01
Speaker 2: this idea that it was all going to I felt.
21:06
Speaker 2: I felt like my life was telling a story and
21:08
Speaker 2: that was going to have not only my own life,
21:10
Speaker 2: but the world was going to have a happy, happy
21:13
Speaker 2: ending in my lifetime. And I see things in a
21:16
Speaker 2: much broader perspective. Now another mystic that I love said,
21:22
Speaker 2: you know, we have to see ourselves as you know,
21:25
Speaker 2: we're like bricks of bricks of a stepping stones. You
21:29
Speaker 2: know that that that that it's not we're not the
21:33
Speaker 2: be all and end all that we are rather the
21:36
Speaker 2: steps upon which the subsequent generations may climb to to
21:43
Speaker 2: go to higher heights than we were able to achieve.
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Speaker 2: I mean, our generation did some amazing things. We did
21:50
Speaker 2: some really really good work, and we can't deny that.
21:53
Speaker 2: But we did have some hubris, I would say, some
21:57
Speaker 2: false optimism. And I think for many of us that
22:01
Speaker 2: sense that we had the will and the vision to
22:06
Speaker 2: have things work out externally in our lifetime is crumbling.
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Speaker 2: So the question gets to be to look towards people
22:15
Speaker 2: like you, Victor, who are finding some groundedness. I love
22:22
Speaker 2: what you said. You know, some level of acceptance that
22:26
Speaker 2: doesn't deny reality but transcends it by including it. I
22:32
Speaker 2: love what you said, and I could say that as
22:36
Speaker 2: a witness to my own I'll call it agony. Right now,
22:41
Speaker 2: there's moments of agony. But there's two parts of me.
22:44
Speaker 2: One is just bemoaning the state of the world. The
22:46
Speaker 2: other is witnessing bemoaning it, and so in love with
22:51
Speaker 2: myself for being the kind of person that has values
22:55
Speaker 2: that transcend the moment and to understand that the ain
23:00
Speaker 2: I'm feeling is something that is holy, you know, something
23:05
Speaker 2: that this world needs. We are the beacon, we are
23:07
Speaker 2: the light onto the future. And as as your Rabbi said,
23:12
Speaker 2: you know, it's like we don't know the end of
23:15
Speaker 2: the story yet, but all we can do is be
23:17
Speaker 2: in the present moment, letting our making, taking care of
23:21
Speaker 2: our spirits, tending our.
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Speaker 1: Spirits absolutely, And I think you will share with me
23:27
Speaker 1: the sentiment that one of the gifts that we have
23:31
Speaker 1: in this process is extending ourselves to others and extending
23:36
Speaker 1: compassion and kindness and love in a world that so
23:38
Speaker 1: desperately needs it.
23:41
Speaker 2: Yes, well, and that comes from that humility that I
23:45
Speaker 2: was talking about. I think a lot of baby boomers,
23:48
Speaker 2: people our age and even younger are wasting a lot
23:51
Speaker 2: of time in self flagellation, looking at where they do,
23:56
Speaker 2: where they went wrong, you know, or trying to set
23:59
Speaker 2: these giant purposes and then being disappointed, you know, or
24:03
Speaker 2: bemoaning bemoaning their limitations. You know, there's just a lot
24:06
Speaker 2: of time being wasted. And I see, for me, it
24:13
Speaker 2: starts at the grassroots up. And I know that when
24:16
Speaker 2: I had big ambitions and was trying to make a
24:19
Speaker 2: name for myself, you know, both in the business world
24:21
Speaker 2: and then as even as even as a writer. This
24:24
Speaker 2: is my thirty sixth book. So I had those books
24:27
Speaker 2: that you know, coincided with those big ambition years. I
24:31
Speaker 2: would often be too busy to tender the everyday kindnesses
24:35
Speaker 2: to the people I encountered. You know, I just I
24:37
Speaker 2: was too busy, you know, I was, you know, take
24:40
Speaker 2: care of me because I'm an important person. You know,
24:43
Speaker 2: I don't feel that way now now, because I've given
24:46
Speaker 2: up on the big picture. I think I'm a much
24:48
Speaker 2: better human being. I will take the time to have
24:52
Speaker 2: a quality conversation and and be kind and compassionate, you know,
24:56
Speaker 2: let the person with fewer groceries get in front of
24:58
Speaker 2: me in line. That kind of thing, absolutely, you know,
25:01
Speaker 2: and I think, I think, especially in times like these,
25:05
Speaker 2: we have to we have to be content with living
25:12
Speaker 2: out of our own values at whatever level it's available
25:15
Speaker 2: to us, and it may be a very very small circle.
25:20
Speaker 1: I think that you and I and others of our
25:23
Speaker 1: generation and are seeing with spiritual eyes what this world
25:29
Speaker 1: truly needs. And I think that we are harbingers of
25:33
Speaker 1: the good word and harbingers of kindness and compassion. My
25:36
Speaker 1: guest is Carol Orsborne. We're going to be talking about
25:39
Speaker 1: her new book, Spiritual Aging, Weekly Reflections for Embracing Life. Carol,
25:44
Speaker 1: please share with our listeners with and get your books
25:46
Speaker 1: and find out more about you.
25:49
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, okay, Well, first of all, Spiritual Aging is
25:53
Speaker 2: an easy title to remember, and it's available everywhere online
25:58
Speaker 2: in bookstores. Don't if they're not carrying it, tell them
26:01
Speaker 2: to carry it. I am thrilled that the book is
26:09
Speaker 2: it's two years of weekly readings and reflections, and so
26:15
Speaker 2: it spawned a grassroots movement that is global, which I'm
26:19
Speaker 2: so thrilled about because as people are reading this week's reading.
26:24
Speaker 2: They're getting together online or through various organizations and online
26:31
Speaker 2: at my website. Excuse me, I'm on substack, So Spiritualaging
26:36
Speaker 2: dot substack dot com is where people are having an
26:40
Speaker 2: online spiritual aging study and support group where they're reading
26:44
Speaker 2: this week's reading and then con conversing twenty four to
26:47
Speaker 2: seven as they're available to And I cannot believe the
26:51
Speaker 2: vitality of the conversations that are going on because you know,
26:55
Speaker 2: the rumor or the stereotypes of aging is that were isolated,
27:00
Speaker 2: and it's true, you know, those of us who are
27:02
Speaker 2: on the cutting edge of spirituality are having a hard
27:04
Speaker 2: time finding each other. And so it's like on my website,
27:08
Speaker 2: and also there's an organization called Saging International that's s
27:13
Speaker 2: A G E hyphen i NG, and there's various other
27:18
Speaker 2: organizations where people are actually coming together globally on zoom
27:23
Speaker 2: and there is such a collective sigh of relief that
27:26
Speaker 2: we don't have to do aging alone and that we
27:30
Speaker 2: could support one another in making aging a spiritual experience.
27:35
Speaker 2: And if you can't remember any of those, hopefully my
27:38
Speaker 2: name will be somewhere on your on your website and
27:44
Speaker 2: just go to Carol Orsbourne dot com, which is an
27:47
Speaker 2: entryway into all these things that I'm involved with.
27:51
Speaker 1: And we'll be back with more of Carol after these words.
27:53
Speaker 1: On the own Times Radio.
27:55
Speaker 4: Network, the best of the holistic, spiritual and conscious world
28:00
Speaker 4: Ome Times Radio IOWMFM. Ome Times Magazine is one of
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Speaker 4: the leading online content providers of positivity, wellness and personal empowerment.
28:10
Speaker 4: A philanthropic organization, their net proceeds are finaled to support
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Speaker 4: worldwide charity initiatives via Humanity Healing International. Through their commitment
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Speaker 4: to creating community and providing conscious content, they aspire to
28:23
Speaker 4: uplift humanity on a global scale. Home Times co creating
28:27
Speaker 4: a more conscious lifestyle.
28:30
Speaker 1: Back on Box Novus, my guest this week is Carol Orsbourne.
28:34
Speaker 1: We're going to be talking about her brand new book,
28:36
Speaker 1: Spiritual Aging Weekly Reflections for Embracing Life. Congratulations on Spiritual Aging.
28:42
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for bringing it to us. We
28:44
Speaker 1: need this book.
28:46
Speaker 2: Thank you. I accept your congratulations. I'm at a point
28:50
Speaker 2: in my life where I'm willing to give myself credit
28:54
Speaker 2: where credit is due.
28:55
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you created this book, as you had mentioned in
28:59
Speaker 1: the first segment, as a series of one hundred and
29:02
Speaker 1: twenty bite sized weekly readings. What inspired the book and
29:06
Speaker 1: the concept of the weekly readings.
29:10
Speaker 2: Well, I wrote the book that I needed and wanted
29:14
Speaker 2: because I've discovered that for me, spiritual growth is cyclical
29:22
Speaker 2: or maybe a spiral, you know, sort of a spiraling deeper.
29:25
Speaker 2: But I keep on touching on the same topics. And
29:29
Speaker 2: because I journal a lot, I can look back at
29:31
Speaker 2: a journal I did ten years ago and read something
29:36
Speaker 2: that I discovered and thought I was going to know forever,
29:40
Speaker 2: some spiritual breakthrough or discovery or insight, and realized I
29:46
Speaker 2: had just written down the same thing last week. So
29:49
Speaker 2: you know, it's like, oh my god, I realized that
29:52
Speaker 2: ten years ago and here it's ten years later, and
29:54
Speaker 2: I thought this was a brand new discovery. So I
29:59
Speaker 2: know that I need reminders. I know that I know things,
30:02
Speaker 2: and so I don't think of this book as teaching
30:05
Speaker 2: new things. I think of it as a reminder for
30:07
Speaker 2: those of us who have been on the spiritual path
30:09
Speaker 2: for some time of what it is that we know
30:12
Speaker 2: and can It's every moment is like a hologram, you know.
30:17
Speaker 2: It's like you can look at it from a prismatic
30:20
Speaker 2: Every single angle you look at it contains the whole,
30:24
Speaker 2: and so there's a real synchronicity in this book. You know,
30:30
Speaker 2: I wrote the book my last writing on It takes
30:33
Speaker 2: about a year or two of promotion, putting it together, publication,
30:38
Speaker 2: marketing two years ago, way before what's going on now.
30:43
Speaker 2: And it's so thrilling to me when when I open
30:46
Speaker 2: the book and there's a reading and it's incredibly pertinent
30:50
Speaker 2: to what we need to know right now, Like I
30:52
Speaker 2: know it's the first week of February where we're just approaching.
30:57
Speaker 2: Is called you know, broken heart, Open Heart, and you know,
31:02
Speaker 2: it's how we learn from the things that break our heart.
31:06
Speaker 2: And there's plenty around the world to break our heart
31:09
Speaker 2: right now, and how do you turn that into spiritual deepening.
31:13
Speaker 2: So it's been pretty interesting how the weekly readings have
31:17
Speaker 2: reflected a reality as unfolding.
31:22
Speaker 1: And this is two years worth, one hundred and twenty readings.
31:25
Speaker 1: Why only two years worth?
31:28
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm human. The book is three hundred
31:34
Speaker 2: and sixty four pages as it is, you know, But
31:40
Speaker 2: the discovery I had first I did a year's worth
31:42
Speaker 2: of reading and I thought, no, I'm still hungry, you know,
31:46
Speaker 2: I want more, And so I wrote the second year
31:49
Speaker 2: and at that point, I felt full. I don't know
31:52
Speaker 2: how to describe it. I felt done, and then I thought,
31:54
Speaker 2: you know what helps me feel done is the notion
31:58
Speaker 2: of cycles. That that what I want to do now
32:01
Speaker 2: is it's been two years since I wrote the first reading.
32:04
Speaker 2: I'm ready to go revisit that again. So you're meant
32:08
Speaker 2: to get to the end of this book and then
32:09
Speaker 2: start over again. So don't think of it as first year,
32:11
Speaker 2: second year, and then you're done, thinking of it as
32:15
Speaker 2: living the rest of your life in two year cycles.
32:18
Speaker 1: So maybe there'll be a sequel.
32:21
Speaker 2: Well, the sequel is and I'm still writing, but it's
32:26
Speaker 2: a study guide to the book, and I'm posting them
32:30
Speaker 2: as we go at my substack at spiritualaging dot substack
32:35
Speaker 2: dot com. So there are reflection reflections based on the reflection,
32:42
Speaker 2: you know, question discussion, questions and spiritual exercises, and a
32:47
Speaker 2: lot of people are getting together with three or four
32:50
Speaker 2: friends and you know, maybe it used to be their
32:53
Speaker 2: book club, but they want to go deeper, or they're
32:55
Speaker 2: taking it to their temple or church, or they're at
32:58
Speaker 2: their senior center, or even some people are at senior
33:02
Speaker 2: living facilities. And the book is it just leads you
33:07
Speaker 2: from one week to another with plenty of stuff to
33:10
Speaker 2: talk about. But if you go on to my website,
33:12
Speaker 2: then you get the study guide and you can go
33:15
Speaker 2: that much deeper. So you know this. I've already thought
33:19
Speaker 2: this through. I haven't done all the study guides for
33:22
Speaker 2: the second year, so I'm doing those now and I
33:24
Speaker 2: think I'm just going to continue to run these for
33:27
Speaker 2: the rest of my life because where the excitement for
33:30
Speaker 2: me right now is is on the comments and a
33:34
Speaker 2: discussion that's taking place, you know, online and in the
33:37
Speaker 2: zoom groups. Not so much what I'm saying as what
33:41
Speaker 2: it is generating in terms of discussion between.
33:44
Speaker 1: People in addition to your personal wisdom and experience. Who
33:49
Speaker 1: else do you call upon in spiritual aging.
33:54
Speaker 2: Right now, I'm learning from I joined. They're called spiritual agings,
34:00
Speaker 2: study and support groups, and these are these small pods
34:05
Speaker 2: of between you know you and a best friend too.
34:08
Speaker 2: I think the largest is about ten people, and then
34:10
Speaker 2: once a month I lead a group for staging that
34:14
Speaker 2: has like seventy five people, but then it breaks up
34:18
Speaker 2: into smaller groups. It's learning from each other. I think
34:21
Speaker 2: that we are on the cutting edge of something new
34:25
Speaker 2: at the break we were talking about the fact that
34:26
Speaker 2: there's so many of our generation that are breaking new
34:29
Speaker 2: grounds spiritually in terms of deepening and you know, getting
34:34
Speaker 2: over spiritual as spirituality as an egotistical. I'm going to
34:38
Speaker 2: teach you how to do this thing called transcendence and
34:41
Speaker 2: be happy forever.
34:42
Speaker 5: You know.
34:43
Speaker 2: I think there's a real deepening going on, and I
34:45
Speaker 2: think we're challenging ourselves against real world challenges. And so
34:51
Speaker 2: for me a teacher would be There's a woman that
34:54
Speaker 2: responded to my comments today on my study guide who
34:58
Speaker 2: said something like somebody said, I asked a question, what
35:02
Speaker 2: are you hoping for? And she said, I'm hoping for
35:06
Speaker 2: good health for myself and my family, and somebody else responded,
35:09
Speaker 2: I hoped for that too, but I have a terminal disease.
35:13
Speaker 2: So now what I hope for is to be beloved
35:16
Speaker 2: no matter what. So you know, it's like I think
35:21
Speaker 2: of as as spiritual warriors or adventures, you know, on
35:25
Speaker 2: the cusp of new learning, and we're sharing we're sharing
35:28
Speaker 2: it with each other as we go. But that doesn't
35:32
Speaker 2: say I don't have way shors. So my main influences
35:35
Speaker 2: would be Florida Scott Maxwell, who I talked about earlier
35:39
Speaker 2: Ramdas who I mentioned earlier, reb Zalman, who was the
35:44
Speaker 2: founder of Saging. He wrote this wonderful book called From
35:47
Speaker 2: Aging to Saging. There's there's in the back of my
35:52
Speaker 2: book Spiritual Aging is all my sources and influences, and
35:56
Speaker 2: it goes on for four or five pages. So that
35:58
Speaker 2: would be or my web site. I also I've run
36:03
Speaker 2: Spiritual Aging book clubs for a number of years, and
36:06
Speaker 2: so on my book on my website are the books
36:09
Speaker 2: that I've read with reflection questions. So that's a great
36:14
Speaker 2: resource for people.
36:16
Speaker 1: I had shared that my spiritual teacher, the founder of
36:19
Speaker 1: the New Seminary, Rabbi Joseph Gelberman, taught us many wonderful things,
36:24
Speaker 1: and one of the things that he shared was that
36:26
Speaker 1: the eleventh Commandment should have said thou shalt have purpose?
36:31
Speaker 1: What is your sense of purpose? In the third Act?
36:36
Speaker 2: I love it, but I'm very easily satisfied. I have
36:39
Speaker 2: to say I'm not I spent many years looking for
36:42
Speaker 2: grand purpose. I was one of those people, honest to God,
36:46
Speaker 2: who believed I could change the world by myself through
36:49
Speaker 2: my writing and being. So, you know, because I came
36:53
Speaker 2: out of the box with so much hubris around that
36:55
Speaker 2: and went as big as I possibly could. I remember
36:59
Speaker 2: the first book I wrote I thought was going to
37:00
Speaker 2: change the world. It was a book called Enough Is Enough,
37:05
Speaker 2: exploding the myth of having it all. I thought I
37:08
Speaker 2: would write this book and then all of my peers
37:10
Speaker 2: would suddenly put value above accumulation and understand the importance
37:16
Speaker 2: of simplicity and having values, you know all that. And
37:20
Speaker 2: it did. It sold a lot of books, but no,
37:23
Speaker 2: the world didn't change. So I started out with grand
37:27
Speaker 2: purpose and grand disappointment and struggled with it for many
37:33
Speaker 2: years until I seriously started in on the aging process.
37:38
Speaker 2: And at that point I had a breakthrough of enlightenment
37:42
Speaker 2: that had to do with understanding that my purpose was
37:45
Speaker 2: living my life every day as I was living it
37:47
Speaker 2: out of my values. And you know how, I was
37:52
Speaker 2: practicing my values in real life, in the present moment,
37:55
Speaker 2: not not in some future of idealized future. And the
38:01
Speaker 2: realization I know that you're involved with you've written a
38:04
Speaker 2: book about the blessing of animals and spiritual animals and
38:08
Speaker 2: things like that. So my breakthrough came while I was
38:12
Speaker 2: at the New Seminary studying for my spiritual certificate in
38:17
Speaker 2: coaching and counseling. Because we were living in New York
38:22
Speaker 2: City and my husband had a big job. He was
38:24
Speaker 2: off every day and it was just me and my dog,
38:27
Speaker 2: and I had just left my big position, so it
38:32
Speaker 2: was new for me to have this time both to
38:34
Speaker 2: maul and dread and think about the future and my
38:37
Speaker 2: age and all that, but also I had a lot
38:39
Speaker 2: of time with my dog. So I wrote a dog
38:43
Speaker 2: at that point that was called Fierce with Age, Chasing
38:47
Speaker 2: God and squirrels in Williamsburg, because that's what we did
38:51
Speaker 2: all day long. My dog and I bonded, and by
38:55
Speaker 2: the end of that year, I came up with this
38:57
Speaker 2: sort of breakthrough notion for me that the purpose of
39:00
Speaker 2: my life that was that it's enough just to make
39:03
Speaker 2: one dog happy, and so anything beyond that was a bonus.
39:08
Speaker 2: And since I've always had dog since then, I've had
39:11
Speaker 2: a pretty happy life from that point of view.
39:14
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting that you had talked about make
39:16
Speaker 1: one dog happy. And one of the things that I've
39:19
Speaker 1: personally found when I put something out there, be it
39:22
Speaker 1: a piece of writing or some advice or consoling someone,
39:28
Speaker 1: I never do it with the intent. I do it
39:31
Speaker 1: because it's the right thing to do, and spiritually for me,
39:33
Speaker 1: it's the right thing to do. And I never look
39:36
Speaker 1: for feedback. And once in a while you get an
39:38
Speaker 1: email or you get a letter, or you get a
39:40
Speaker 1: comment from someone that says that time that you spoke
39:43
Speaker 1: to me, or that time that you counseled me, or
39:46
Speaker 1: that time that you listened to me, especially the listening
39:49
Speaker 1: was life changing. In that life changing moment, you may
39:52
Speaker 1: have changed one person, but you've also changed the world
39:55
Speaker 1: and you've done that.
39:58
Speaker 2: Yeah. Me, the greatest spiritual gift of older age is
40:05
Speaker 2: freedom from seeking approval. Absolutely I would if I had
40:12
Speaker 2: had that earlier in life, that would have been I
40:16
Speaker 2: would have done things differently. But I personally think that
40:21
Speaker 2: getting beyond seeking approval is the purpose and the meaning
40:25
Speaker 2: of older age. That every life stage has its meaning
40:28
Speaker 2: and purpose. And we talked earlier about the householder, you know,
40:32
Speaker 2: I think that when we're born, I think there's a
40:34
Speaker 2: certain amount of we need to seek approval. We're just
40:38
Speaker 2: we're human and we have psychologies that are molded by
40:41
Speaker 2: the previous generation. There's a certain amount of fitting in
40:44
Speaker 2: that's required to get a society to function, you know.
40:47
Speaker 2: But what joy there is to get to the age
40:51
Speaker 2: or stage in life when that's what it's not about anymore.
40:54
Speaker 2: And you may be doing things that accidentally get approval,
40:59
Speaker 2: but it's not what you're aiming for, you know. I
41:02
Speaker 2: call us some truth tellers at Spiritual Warriors.
41:05
Speaker 1: Here you go absolutely. My guest is Carol Orsbourne, her
41:09
Speaker 1: book Spiritual Aging, Weekly Reflections for Embracing Life. We'll be
41:14
Speaker 1: back with more after these words on the Own Times
41:17
Speaker 1: Radio network.
41:18
Speaker 3: Humanity Healing International is a small nonprofit with a big dream.
41:23
Speaker 3: Since two thousand and seven, HHI has been working tirelessly
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41:48
Speaker 5: Let's breathe deep in hell, extend your spine, excel very slowly.
41:56
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Speaker 5: message is brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health
42:01
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42:04
Speaker 1: Back on Vox Novus. My guest this week is Carol
42:07
Speaker 1: or isborn her book Spiritual Aging Weekly Reflections for Embracing Life, Carol,
42:14
Speaker 1: many of us have lost parents and brothers and sisters
42:17
Speaker 1: and dear friends as we enter into our late sixties
42:21
Speaker 1: and seventies. What do you offer for those who are grieving?
42:26
Speaker 2: I'm grieving too, so you know, the question is not
42:33
Speaker 2: that you don't allow yourself a period of grieving, and
42:37
Speaker 2: not that the sadness will ever go away, but trying
42:41
Speaker 2: to find that moment when you can start moving back
42:46
Speaker 2: into the world again without leaving the loss behind. So
42:53
Speaker 2: I have a spiritual practice that I myself have used
42:56
Speaker 2: when I've been in the heat of my grieving and
42:58
Speaker 2: had to still function the world, and again there's sadnesses
43:02
Speaker 2: that I'll never leave behind. I call it a light,
43:05
Speaker 2: a crying candle, and that is after you know you
43:10
Speaker 2: have to devote yourself full time to your grieving. People
43:12
Speaker 2: that don't take that time to really go through it thoroughly,
43:15
Speaker 2: it will just haunt them in an unfinished way. But
43:20
Speaker 2: for those of us who do recognize that moment, what
43:22
Speaker 2: you can do is say, Okay, I am not completely
43:25
Speaker 2: done with my grieving, but I know I have to
43:27
Speaker 2: function again. I have to make a living, or I
43:29
Speaker 2: have kids to raise, or you know whatever, or it's
43:32
Speaker 2: just time, you know. So I say, buy a candle
43:37
Speaker 2: as big as your grief. And some of them are
43:39
Speaker 2: big floor jobs, you know, you've seen those candles that
43:42
Speaker 2: are like three or four feet tall. And then determine
43:45
Speaker 2: to yourself how much of your life you're going to
43:47
Speaker 2: give to this a day. So some griefs require an
43:53
Speaker 2: hour or more a day, some are not that big,
43:55
Speaker 2: and maybe fifteen minutes a day, and then you light
43:58
Speaker 2: that candle for that amount of time, set a timer,
44:02
Speaker 2: and let yourself feel those feelings fully. And then when
44:06
Speaker 2: that hour is done or the fifteen minutes are done,
44:08
Speaker 2: you blow out the candle and get out with your
44:11
Speaker 2: life as best you can. And then the next day
44:13
Speaker 2: you do the same thing until the candle's burned.
44:16
Speaker 1: And there's no right way or wrong way to agree.
44:18
Speaker 1: But it's an individual process.
44:20
Speaker 2: Oh yes, And I'd like to expand on that and
44:23
Speaker 2: just say there's also no right or wrong way to age,
44:27
Speaker 2: and there's no right or wrong way to die. I
44:32
Speaker 2: love this story from Ramdas He said that the people
44:35
Speaker 2: that had the hardest problems the spiritual people who had
44:39
Speaker 2: the hardest times with death and dying are the ones
44:42
Speaker 2: who thought that because they had done so much spiritual work,
44:46
Speaker 2: they should just be able to gracefully fade away their
44:49
Speaker 2: deathbed in a sense of tranquil lady, tranquility and peace.
44:53
Speaker 2: And when instead they were crying out in pain or
44:56
Speaker 2: pissed off at God or whatever, they would also turn
45:01
Speaker 2: against themselves feeling like they weren't dying right. And so
45:06
Speaker 2: I think that that's a lesson for all of us, really,
45:09
Speaker 2: that that we have to Whoever, however you're showing up today,
45:14
Speaker 2: you know, accepting yourself means if you're angry, you accept
45:19
Speaker 2: that you're angry, You're still angry. The only thing that
45:22
Speaker 2: changes is you add a witness to it that can
45:26
Speaker 2: observe yourself being angry, and with that you can extend
45:30
Speaker 2: love to yourself and say, yes, I'm angry, and I
45:34
Speaker 2: don't like being angry, but you know, I can love
45:37
Speaker 2: myself in this anger, as opposed to turning yourself against
45:40
Speaker 2: against yourself and saying having second doubts about your spirituality,
45:45
Speaker 2: you know, and and regret and all that. But then
45:48
Speaker 2: you know you even have to. There's there's times when
45:50
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to witness yourself having second doubts and
45:55
Speaker 2: and regrets, second guessing yourself. So and then you have
45:58
Speaker 2: to love yourself too. So that's to me, that's what
46:01
Speaker 2: the spiritual journey is at an older age, is learning
46:04
Speaker 2: how to feel beloved no matter what, and to extend
46:08
Speaker 2: that to your own self, to grow in that direction,
46:11
Speaker 2: and to love yourself when you're not there yet.
46:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to that extent. One of the challenges for
46:18
Speaker 1: many in all stages of life is forgiveness, to offer
46:23
Speaker 1: and to ask for it. How do you approach forgiveness?
46:28
Speaker 2: Well, I'm a beginner on forgiveness. I'll just say I
46:32
Speaker 2: have a lot more to learn, because for me, the
46:36
Speaker 2: line between forgiveness and complacency is very thin, and I
46:43
Speaker 2: can sometimes use forgiveness as a place to go to
46:48
Speaker 2: to not rise to oppose forces that I feel called
46:56
Speaker 2: to oppose. So, as a spiritual or morals I understand
47:03
Speaker 2: that if I go deep enough, and I go I'm
47:07
Speaker 2: talking way, way deep, I can think of the most
47:11
Speaker 2: odious people in current times in history and have compassion
47:15
Speaker 2: for what it must be like to be them, to
47:18
Speaker 2: have been raised in such a way that they can
47:20
Speaker 2: inflict so much evil seemingly without conscience, and there's a
47:26
Speaker 2: certain kind of forgiveness or understanding on that level, but
47:32
Speaker 2: I cannot use that as an excuse to override when
47:38
Speaker 2: I'm being called to stand up to evil. So it's
47:42
Speaker 2: a slippery slope. And like I said, I'm a beginner,
47:46
Speaker 2: and sometimes I think it's I better be very careful
47:52
Speaker 2: about forgiving prematurely if it's not sincere on my part.
47:57
Speaker 2: If you understand what I'm saying.
47:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm talking more about your personal forgiveness. One of
48:01
Speaker 1: the things that I've shared at memorial ceremonies and funerals
48:07
Speaker 1: is that tomorrow is never guaranteed. If you love someone,
48:12
Speaker 1: tell them today. If you feel that someone has hurt
48:16
Speaker 1: you in some way, try and forgive them today. And
48:19
Speaker 1: if you feel you've hurt for someone, ask for forgiveness today,
48:23
Speaker 1: because tomorrow is never guaranteed.
48:26
Speaker 2: Oh God, that's gorgeous. I just got to share it
48:29
Speaker 2: down my spine. Well, it does remind me of the
48:32
Speaker 2: twelve Step programs, and I have been a part of
48:36
Speaker 2: the twelve step programs. A lot of my spirituality it
48:38
Speaker 2: comes from many, many streams, but alan On has been
48:41
Speaker 2: a big contributor. Alan on the way I experience and
48:45
Speaker 2: define it is for people who love other people too
48:51
Speaker 2: much and perhaps unwisely, no, not understanding what real love is,
48:57
Speaker 2: but inherent and moving forward in life is acknowledging of
49:07
Speaker 2: when you're holding grudges and seeing that as a character flaw,
49:12
Speaker 2: you know, and then the serenity prayer, you know, trying
49:16
Speaker 2: to rectify what you can and accept what you can't.
49:19
Speaker 2: And for me, the hardest part of forgiveness is the
49:23
Speaker 2: third part, which is, you know, the knowing the difference.
49:27
Speaker 2: You know, what are the things that we should go
49:28
Speaker 2: out and try and fix, and what are the things
49:31
Speaker 2: that we need to forgive and accept. So that's that
49:34
Speaker 2: to me is a lifelong learning. But I couldn't agree
49:38
Speaker 2: with you more. That's beautiful what you say, thank you.
49:41
Speaker 1: I've adopted a practice of daily gratitude, expressing it to
49:45
Speaker 1: those who have extended kindness and for virtually everything in
49:49
Speaker 1: my life. What do you see as the blessings of gratitude?
49:52
Speaker 2: I am feeling more and more God's presence coming through
49:58
Speaker 2: people and things, answer circumstances, complete strangers. I just I
50:05
Speaker 2: feel like God is like using the world and the
50:08
Speaker 2: universe to say at a girl, keep at it. You
50:12
Speaker 2: know you did it. At the break, I was talking
50:15
Speaker 2: about something I'm personally scared about having to do with
50:18
Speaker 2: headline news, you know, and what did you say to me?
50:21
Speaker 2: Keep the faith? Basically, yeah, that Victor, that was just
50:26
Speaker 2: a gift. You know. It's like and like I said,
50:29
Speaker 2: it's not like I don't know these things. It's just
50:31
Speaker 2: that in the moment, we forget. And so I'll just say,
50:35
Speaker 2: in this moment, I'm very grand. I'm very grateful for this,
50:38
Speaker 2: for you and what you said, but also this whole conversation.
50:41
Speaker 2: You know, it's lifting my spirits out of a place
50:44
Speaker 2: this morning where I was really more reactive to the world. So,
50:49
Speaker 2: you know, but I would have to say that I
50:51
Speaker 2: think my spiritual practice, thank God, concludes. I have certain
50:56
Speaker 2: friends I talked to and I just commit in advance.
50:58
Speaker 2: I know we're going to talk every Tuesday or whatever.
51:01
Speaker 2: Certain groups that I go to, like I mentioned elean
51:03
Speaker 2: On that I go to on a regular basis, certain
51:05
Speaker 2: readings I have peppered my life with wake up tools
51:11
Speaker 2: and reminder tools. And again, you know, you ask why
51:14
Speaker 2: did I write this book. That's what spiritual aging is.
51:16
Speaker 2: You know, It's like I need things in my life
51:19
Speaker 2: to keep me awake. Otherwise I go into a reactive space.
51:23
Speaker 2: And what a way to start the week with this conversation.
51:26
Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you. Is there one reading that
51:30
Speaker 1: you have personally found beneficial?
51:32
Speaker 2: Knowing that this book was gonna I was asking people
51:36
Speaker 2: to devote a whole week of their lives to each
51:39
Speaker 2: of these readings. I tried to make each one my favorite,
51:45
Speaker 2: if you know what I mean. It's like I didn't
51:47
Speaker 2: want people to come to the clunky week where I
51:49
Speaker 2: didn't really care that much. So what I did is
51:53
Speaker 2: I was thinking that you might ask something like this,
51:56
Speaker 2: and so I just looked at the first week of
51:57
Speaker 2: February of year one, and this is a reading about
52:05
Speaker 2: open heart versus you know, is there a difference between
52:09
Speaker 2: a broken heart and an open heart? Are they the same?
52:12
Speaker 2: So that's a reading I would suggest people take a
52:16
Speaker 2: look at.
52:17
Speaker 1: What would you like readers to take away from spiritual aging?
52:21
Speaker 2: First of all, that you don't have to do aging alone.
52:26
Speaker 2: And if you are in a dreading, reactive, self punishing,
52:31
Speaker 2: hanging on denial, brittle place, any of those things that
52:39
Speaker 2: growing towards the kind of perspective you and I've been
52:44
Speaker 2: talking about is a choice. You have heard this hour,
52:49
Speaker 2: and there are lots of resources, not only my own book,
52:53
Speaker 2: not only your shows, but as I mentioned, page after
52:58
Speaker 2: page of book reference and says both in this book
53:01
Speaker 2: and on my website, it's your choice. And if you
53:06
Speaker 2: think if you're one of those people that are saying, well,
53:10
Speaker 2: that's true for you or everybody, but here's my exception.
53:14
Speaker 2: I've got to tell you everybody has an exception. You know,
53:18
Speaker 2: somebody says they're too sick, or somebody says they don't
53:20
Speaker 2: have enough money, or somebody says that it won't work
53:23
Speaker 2: for them because they're too lonely or whatever it's like.
53:26
Speaker 2: Just know that everybody who's doing this work could use
53:31
Speaker 2: something as their exception, and don't just take the leap
53:37
Speaker 2: of faith that there is another way to hold your life,
53:41
Speaker 2: no matter how daunting a task it seems to you.
53:46
Speaker 2: Right now you are not alone. Go find other people
53:49
Speaker 2: that were in your spot and got to the other
53:51
Speaker 2: side of it. We are growing together. I'm not here
53:54
Speaker 2: to tell you how to do it. There's no right
53:56
Speaker 2: way to do it, but you will be inspired by
54:00
Speaker 2: the people of our generation and generations before who are
54:04
Speaker 2: waking up to a new vision of aging that is
54:11
Speaker 2: meaningful and purposeful in and of itself, regardless of external circumstances,
54:16
Speaker 2: and regardless of what is happening to you right now.
54:19
Speaker 1: The wisdom of Carol Oorsbourne her book Spiritual Aging Weekly
54:23
Speaker 1: Reflections for Embracing Life. Carol one more time, please share
54:27
Speaker 1: with our listeners where they can get your books and
54:28
Speaker 1: find out more about you.
54:30
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you. The book is called Spiritual Aging, very
54:35
Speaker 2: easy to remember. You can find it anywhere online Amazon.
54:40
Speaker 2: Of course we're debuted at number one on the Aging
54:43
Speaker 2: and Self Helpless, which I'm very proud of. But your
54:46
Speaker 2: local retailer can order it for you anywhere you get
54:50
Speaker 2: your books. Spiritual Aging the other resources that I talked about.
54:56
Speaker 2: You can subscribe for free to my online presence at
55:02
Speaker 2: Spiritualaging dot substack dot com, and if you join our
55:09
Speaker 2: paid membership then you'll get the weekly study guides and
55:13
Speaker 2: join the group online that's conversing. You can also go
55:17
Speaker 2: to Saging International that's Sage hyphen i ng Saging International
55:23
Speaker 2: and join online zoom groups that I'm leading and also
55:27
Speaker 2: that are being led locally around the world, small groups
55:31
Speaker 2: of ten on zoom. And if you don't remember any
55:34
Speaker 2: of this, just go to Carolorsbourne dot com and just
55:39
Speaker 2: remember that my name has an R in it, so
55:42
Speaker 2: it's O R S B O R N Carol Orsbourne
55:45
Speaker 2: dot com and that will be a conduit to news
55:49
Speaker 2: and linking up to everything.
55:51
Speaker 1: Carol, thank you so much for joining us and sharing
55:54
Speaker 1: this wisdom which is so needed in our world today.
55:57
Speaker 2: Thank you, Oh my gosh, thank you. I think I
56:00
Speaker 2: did tell you about how you changed my you lifted
56:03
Speaker 2: my day to day. So I will listen again when
56:06
Speaker 2: this runs, and maybe multiple times.
56:08
Speaker 1: So thank you, Victor, thank you, and thank you for
56:11
Speaker 1: joining us on Box Novius. I'm Victor the Voice Erman
56:16
Speaker 1: have a wonderful week.