Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / The Seven's Sacred Joy | FOMO, Fullness & Trusting God with Deanna Sudom

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The Seven's Sacred Joy | FOMO, Fullness & Trusting God with Deanna Sudom · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast, the Enneagram for Real Life.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Here is where you'll find conversations where faith meets story and strategy for lasting transformation.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, here to help you find wisdom and wholehearted rhythms for moments that matter most.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you're learning your type or deepening your spiritual formation, these conversations will remind you that the Enneagram shines a light, but Christ is the transformation.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: It is Enneagram 7 Month.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, are you surprised to hear me say that I am so excited about this, Deanna?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: None at all.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to have a lot of fun.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: And what's great about this is that I can share from personal experience on a level of having coached sevens, personal experience.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: I have a seven, another seven in my home, technically.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: And next week we're going to go pretty deep into some of my personal story.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: But today we're going to do some of the high view, a lot of the general understanding of an Enneagram seven.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Are you ready to go?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I am.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do this.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: What I think is so great as I've thought through this episode in particular is that the four actually is at some in some ways very opposite of a seven.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And yet there's a lot of shared commonality.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's going to be great to hear you pull on some of the similarities and help us see them, but then also draw us sevens who are listening into some of the deeper waters that you force have no problem going into.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: So with that, what comes to mind when you think about the seven?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: What do you see in the sevens in general?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have a lot of experience with sevens as well.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, when I looked for a coach before I became one, Amy was the first face that I thought, oh yeah.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then I found out she was a seven.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, I don't know.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: But it was so fair.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: That is good.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing I was thinking was their liveness, just the ability to have a genuine sense of joy.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not anything that's like mustered up.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's just genuine and seeing a possibility that's deeply life-giving.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: They have a way to see what could be, even when others feel stuck in what is.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so in that, there's this lightness to them that's not shallow.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually rooted in a deep desire for life to be full and to be good.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely think sevens tend to bring energy into a room in a way that sometimes can feel off-putting because they may not read the room correctly and bring in the energy.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's maybe not the right thing.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever experienced that?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a little bit.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also, I mean, even though you, even though you see it and experience it, I think lots of times it just kind of pulls into there's where I would see for me, it joy isn't an easy thing that comes out of me.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have to dig deep for that.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just this natural ability like a seven would have.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: So if I saw a seven walking into a room like that, I'm like, dang, I want to be like that.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: But but settle down a little bit.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: In the same vein, right?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: The description of Tigger from the Winnie, the Pooh stories, it's very fitting.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: As much as I kind of cringe at it, there is that element of bouncing in a little bit of obliviousness to what is happening and maybe coming in and um not quite giving the energy that needed to be in that moment.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: One of the parts of all of this Enneagram's world is the differentiator, a lot of times when we look at the Enneagram versus other personality typologies and tools and insights is that we get into those core fears and desires.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you notice when you look underneath the enthusiasm, those tigger moments?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: What's actually going on behind the scenes for a seven?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the thing is at the for them in that moment, that enthusiasm is really real.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think underneath the enthusiasm, probably I've experienced receiving that often it's a deep fear of being trapped, especially maybe in pain, not just physical pain, but emotional pain, like feeling stuck in something that you feel there's no way out.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think too, FOMO or fear of missing out, as Bob Goff would say, to those who are new to the earth and didn't know what that meant.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's a seven pattern for sure.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Makes them feel maybe in limited or what's the word I'm looking for, contained or even told no by somebody.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: That could be what is underneath that.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe there's an underlying belief that if you slow down too much, you might encounter something that they can't escape.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think the movement, the planning, all the options, it becomes a way of staying ahead of that possibility for them.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: The limitation or fear of limitations and options is real because a seven longs to be satisfied and content, but there's always it's almost like the goal line keeps moving for what that is or what that could feel like.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so the seven wants to be fully met and not grasp for more, but it's a tough place to arrive to because there's always something you have to say no to, or there's human limitations, physical limitations, monetary limitations, season of life.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so it that FOMO bleeds into that core desire and creates that tension because it's often it's where they want to go and the stillness and contentment, and I have enough.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And yet they're often running towards something else or running from it in a lot of ways.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Which I think that's a little uh that's an interesting thing to even push on here for the the four, because that being trapped in pain that wouldn't be something that a four is afraid of per se.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, I wouldn't say being trapped in it.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe even more it would be the emotions.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: There would be a little bit of a fear of being like the emotions would be overwhelming to the point of feeling trapped.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Although I probably wouldn't have used that language.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, there's a connection there for as far as because it's a continual.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I I use assault lightly just because it feels like that sometimes, but it's like this continual rushing of emotions.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And often my fear would be sitting in them trying to parse them out because it seems like too much.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of where I would sit in that.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's helpful.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's actually been plenty of people that I've known who have struggled to identify if they're four or seven, or who I have experienced the mistyping of either or.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so some of that emotional thread can be a little misconstrued or misunderstood.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say like this happens to be a perfect opportunity to illustrate some of those differences and highlight what is the same, but how it looks a little bit different underneath.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because maybe the too much theme is familiar, but the too much theme means something different, but depending on your core type.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, in that line of thinking, there is a thread of gluttony being a struggle for the seven.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: I might share a little more personal notes on that next week, but for the meantime, how about you'd give us the high view on it?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think it often looks like constantly adding more ideas, more plans, more options, almost as a way to ensure that you didn't feel empty.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: But underneath there's a hunger, I think, for more experiences, for a deeper sense of aliveness that all actually satisfies and isn't just a chasing after.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I was thinking about um, like sometimes the accumulation itself becomes exhausting.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: What was meant to create freedom starts to feel pressure.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen that played out actually of a son who is a type seven, and I've seen it play out in his life for sure in the continual yes until there's too much to manage on his plate.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yet if he was asked, he would not necessarily say no to any of that.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because, well, we don't want the limitation, right?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: This might be worth saying for our friend who's listening is I've been listening to an audio book about ADHD and a little plug for the Holderness family.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And their book, ADHD is awesome.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's a fantastic read, very interesting listen.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm kind of zooming through all of their books right now and kind of found a found a lane and taking it all in.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: What a surprise.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: But some of their description about ADHD actually felt very similar to a type seven.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that there's a lot out there about ADHD and there might be mistyping kind of based on some of those similarities.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: But it is that sensory desire to not only feel full, but to continue to have experience and options and stimulation and possibility and take continuing to add to the calendar or say yes or not be realistic about what your capacity or capability is.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: But at the threat of it, while ADHD gives insight for behavior and behavior patterns, the seven and this need for more experience touches on the core fear and core desire and internal longing that you have towards continuing to ask for more.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like that's an important element to add here for whatever it's worth.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: But as we look at how seven's experience of God, because each of us, as we not only reflect our creator, but we're drawn towards the word and the gift of relationship with our creator, God, and Lord and Savior and Holy Spirit.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Your work as a spiritual director or spiritual formation coach, you like that title.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: How do you see someone's experiencing God?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And where might it get a little complicated?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think when we think of the joy, that's that's what they've been gifted to bring the world, right?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is to bring joy.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I believe they connect with joy through wonder and expansiveness.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: They resonate with the goodness of God, like the generosity and the abundance of Him.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think have really great access through nature, through creativity, through wonder.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: They have access to God in that way.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it can become complicated when the harder aspects of faith come into view.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Things like stillness or silence or lament, those spaces feel constraining, or they can feel constraining for them, or even threatening in some way.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: They love the God of the resurrection, but can skip Good Friday to get there.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where the reframing plays out for them in their relationship with the Lord, I think.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: I've definitely worked with a lot of sevens who came to a point where they couldn't escape that Good Friday and Dark Saturday experience.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And what did that mean for the relationship with God?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: What did that mean for their faith?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: What happens when your reframer is quote unquote broken?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and that that has been a tough thing.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's not an impossible thing to work through.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: But that's where I just would love to give the shout out for the fours in my life, like you, who have invited me to sit a little bit longer, who have taken time to process what does this mean?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: What you're experiencing is true, and you can't do what you typically do.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that's been really powerful.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and I just would say for the seven who's listening, who maybe is even going through that, or who has gone through it, and maybe there's still a hangover because they just quickly bounced out of it, that's worth paying attention to and giving time to.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something incredibly formative to walk through that.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm curious, you're so great about blessings and going to the scripture to base our blessings off.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any scripture anchors that you would like to share for a seven, maybe with that struggle who in trying to figure out do I bounce and reframe here or do I sit here a little longer?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think he isn't asking us to rush past those places.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: He's actually present with you and invites you to lean into them.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the scripture that came to mind is one of my favorites, actually.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: But it is, he says, That is God, be still and know that I am God.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: I will be exalted in the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that invitation to stillness can feel uncomfortable, but it's also where a deeper knowing of who God is is formed.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think for type seven, there's also, I forget which translation, but it is cease striving.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that's an invitation to trust God because he's that powerful.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's why it's important to refer to that whole verse.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Often people will say, Be still and know that I am God, and forget about the part that says, He will be exalted in the nations, he will be exalted in the earth.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's important, I think, especially in a seven's life, to refer to the whole verse.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: You need the acknowledgement that his power is there.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not just going to be still and be stuck in the stillness, but his power is there for them.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And one other point I thought was the passion translation actually, I think, is apt for a seven.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe a seven wrote the way this came out, but it says, it says, surrender your anxiety, be still and realize I am God.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this speaks to the underlying buzz of anxiety for them.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is good.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, that would be a good one to meditate on and maybe put on your mirror, listen to a few times and sit there.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I I just want to say thank you for giving us that second part and letting that highlight too, going, it's the both and it's not just sitting in it and being stuck.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's good.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of stuck, what does that look like for a seven?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And what does growth require?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: What have you seen in your work and with the sevens that you know?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it often looks like finishing what they've started.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, dang.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: You had to go there.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Call to out.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or even leaving situations when they become difficult.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is another tricky place where they might feel stuck.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it can also show up in relationships, like keeping things light rather than staying for the deeper, maybe harder conversations.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And internally, I think it's the inability to sit with disappointment or grief without immediately trying to reframe that.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're moving into growth, I think growth asks you to stay.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And growth asks you to stay in a conversation that's a little longer than it's comfortable for you, to stay with a feeling rather than escape from it, to trust that presence, not movement, is actually what brings satisfaction.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And to discover that commitment isn't a trap, it's actually what allows joy to deepen and to become real.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: That'll preach.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And dang, I quickly had some stories come to my mind that I'm like, oh, I might have to share that for next week because yeah, there's a lot there for sure.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is very true.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine my seven friend listening is going, yep, yep, that's true.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: What would you offer a seven who does have some awareness?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe even recently a situation caught them by surprise, or they see it as an invitation to slow down, but it scares them a bit, maybe even terrifies.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's a strong word, but it can feel that way.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Give us some help or encouragement.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think gentleness is really key here in walking into that, whether you're guiding a seven or whether you are a seven, to be gentle with yourself and choosing just one thing.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I always I often will encourage clients to start.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just pick one thing.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so you don't get overwhelmed, one feeling, one conversation, one commitment that you want to look at and simply staying with it, not adding to it or shifting, just staying.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then also noticing that's one prayer that I've actually started myself lately is just like, Lord, help me notice you, help me notice where you want me to move and when you don't.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so noticing the moment that you want to exit out of it in the stain.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Notice that there's an impulse to pivot.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of just following it to just pause and go, okay, Lord, is this my flesh wanting to run from this, or is this you wanting to take me in a different direction?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it can be even as simple as grounding yourself, like put your feet on the ground, take some deep breaths and name what's true for you right now so that you can it can anchor you with him.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I am experiencing a slowdown in an area of life that I had some agency over, and it was a struggle to choose to slow or go the slower path.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: But what I want to say in encouraging is the Lord has met me so powerfully and pretty quickly in that in such a beautiful way.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think even as I reflect on that decision and that choice to slow down, I'm reminded, well, you can always choose to speed up again.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's no harm in slowing down.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because for some reason, if you slowed down too much or you didn't get the details right, and you choose to slow down too long, God can always redirect and speed up because if you're giving it to him, he's got it.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so, anyway, just by way of testimony, like that's true.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much goodness in it, and it's the upstream practice for a seven.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is not what you do.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Slowing down, no, go faster.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but there's such beauty in it and so formative.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good word.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: As we continue to unpack the seven this month, there's gonna be so many stories, and we're going to be able to invite a couple of our friends.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Heather, who is a wholehearted coach, she's gonna share some of her story and also her trauma-informed lens and the work that she's been doing personally, but also as a coach.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then one of my coaches, Allie Worthington, who's a seven, she's gonna share about life as a seven, how it's impacted her work and others that she coaches and even what she creates for community.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: So there's gonna be so much.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then, yes, as I alluded to, I'm gonna share some of my story as well.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna sit in the heart seat, we like to call it, and Deanna will get to lead the conversation.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I feel a little bit nervous, only because, you know, vulnerable moment here.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: But Deanna, there's so many things you and I would love to say to a seven.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: But what's something that we maybe didn't say in this conversation that you want to make sure they really care?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Type seven friend.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to know that your joy is a gift, it's not a problem.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: It may not be received the way that you expect it to, but it's not a problem.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Your joy becomes fuller when you're willing to stay, even in the hard places.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't think you're being asked to be someone else.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're just invited to be a deeper version of who you already are.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: So keep being joyful and just go to those places, those deep places.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's worth it.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the Lord will not leave you hanging there.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: I say yes.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I say yes to this invitation.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Deanna.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm loving getting to do this with you.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited that this month we'll see you next week and you get to lead the conversation and then next month for the Enneagram Six.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thank you.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your stuff point.