Latest / Linen Suit & Plastic Tie / What Power Lies In Your Name? ft. a Novelist - Dava Shastri's Last Day (Kirthana Ramisetti)

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What Power Lies In Your Name? ft. a Novelist - Dava Shastri's Last Day (Kirthana Ramisetti) · Linen Suit & Plastic Tie

0:00
Over the break in December. Kevin, I had traveled to Florida
0:04
for a little bit and we were in the airport and I I'm always
0:08
carrying a book even though I barely read it and then Kevin
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picked up your book and Kevin had read the entire book in a
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week. Welcome.
0:22
Welcome to the linen suit and plastic tie podcast.
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This is the podcast where we dissect and analyze.
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The amazingly powerful Art of Storytelling and learn how to
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harness story, time to supercharge our everyday lives.
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I'm going of, and I'm Kevin, you know, God, we start off every
0:43
one of our episodes, saying our names, but, you know, come to
0:46
think of it. Everyone has a story behind how
0:50
they got their name. I feel like something
0:53
interesting to talk about so Grove, what does your name mean?
0:57
So my name is gaurav and it translates to Pride in Hindi.
1:02
And what's cool about my name is it's traditionally spell GA you
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iav and my parents changed it because I was born in Canada to
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cheat. Oh, a v.
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So it's a little bit easier to spell and there are other people
1:17
use the spelling, but it's always made it a little bit more
1:19
unique and it's all I've always loved it.
1:21
It. And my middle name is actually
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Nikolas because my parents wanted me to have the choice
1:27
between a more eastern and western name.
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And it's, it was a very powerful choice.
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And when I was moving to the States from Canada, I was
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thinking about it, too. But you know, I've loved my
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name. I think it makes me a little bit
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unique. I do sometimes, you know, get a
1:42
little anxiety when you're introducing myself to someone,
1:45
because sometimes I mumble sometimes, I don't announce it
1:48
correctly, but it's always that weird has changed.
1:50
I'm like, it's fine in there. I want to get away time, like
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it's fine. The one thing though is I do not
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use my first name at coffee shops anymore.
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I always use Nicholas because I do not want to have that
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conversation about how to spell it and they always get it wrong
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and it's interesting because you know people have different
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perceptions on this and I think people are getting better and
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pronouncing someone's name and making sure you're honoring the
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way they choose to present is so important.
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And it's a very personal thing to Or me.
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I've never really struck striven to correct people and make sure
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everybody knows exactly, right for me, it's about as long as
2:29
you're planning an honest effort.
2:31
Okay. Kevin's.
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Not even your birth name. Yes.
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Like you said, I'm only going by Kevin in this country or when I
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speak this language, my original or my legal Chinese.
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First name is Kai un. Kai means to open to begin.
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Un means the beginning of an error or simply a the beginning
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of a year and I got this name because fun fact I was born on
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New Year's Eve. So that's how I got my name.
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I was born kind of at the beginning of a another year,
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another era and yeah this is a whole gigantic debate among a
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lot of Chinese people. What name should you go by when
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your In a different country or different environment.
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Some people feel like you know you shouldn't mask your identity
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you with a different nickname account name.
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And whereas on the other hand, some people think you know I
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just don't want to get my name butchered because Mandarin is
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different from a lot of different language.
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I'm getting lean into my linguistic, nerdy, you know,
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side a bit but it you had to pronounce it in a certain tone
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which It's a feature that many languages simply don't have, but
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without digging too deep into this Rabbit Hole, you can call
4:00
me Kevin, there are great, stories associated with
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everyone's names. We are talking so much about a
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name today, partly? Because of the amazing guests,
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we have this week, we are talking with keerthana ramit
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Sethi. She used to work as an
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entertainment reporter for Newsday and the New York daily
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news. But more recently, she has come
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out with this amazing book called Java shastri's last day
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in which the names of characters play, a pretty important role.
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But before I get into that garage, would you care to
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introduce to us what the book is about?
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So, Kevin Davis shot his last day is an amazing story about a
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billionaire, 70 year old Indian. A second generation Indian
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immigrant, who is dying? She knows, he's dying.
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She knows she's dying soon. And so she's decided to tell the
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world that she died a day before.
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She was set to essentially medically.
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Take her own life with the doctor and the reason she did
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this was was so that she could see the world's reaction.
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She can read what people are writing about insane about her
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because she was a Billionaire. She was a public figure and
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there will be people who made it better.
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So she wanted to experience that but what she didn't expect was
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two of her biggest secrets to come out.
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And so what she had done was she summoned whole family to this
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kind of Rich Island that she owned and told them she was
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dying and told them that she announced the world and news to
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the world. So in this story, we see David
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struggle with her Secrets coming out her family, discovering
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these secrets and Struggle with what is going to be remembered.
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It's a fascinating story of family and Legacy and the
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Immigrant experience and hold these essential truths that
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affect us and the idea of what will the world say about me when
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I die? So without further Ado, let's
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get into it. Today, we're so glad to be
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joined by none other than curtain and Remy seti.
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Who is the author of David shastri's last day?
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We'll get into this very amazing book.
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No, I would tell you her story. I'm sure she has an amazing one,
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but I should really leave you up to herself.
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This tell her own story. So to start us off guard Anna.
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Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
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What is your story? Sure.
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So, I'm originally from Southern California.
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I grew up in Orange County, I attended.
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CLA in graduate in two thousand. And then I've always had a
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lifelong interest in books and writing and reading.
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And I also had an interest in entertainment and pop culture.
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So those are my two longtime interest.
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I definitely got to tap into that a little bit UCLA where I
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was a Communications major. And then I decided to get my MFA
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in creative writing from Emerson College and that would be my
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first experience with actually studying creative writing from
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I'm there I learned a lot of things related to not just
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fiction writing but also different forms of writing.
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Playwriting travel writing poetry writing which I think
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really expanded me as a writer and helped me kind of start my
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path towards having a career in media and journalism where for
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the best 10 15 years or so. I've had the opportunity to
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actually write a lot about what interest me which is
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entertainment and pop, culture music, film books, Etc.
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And so while I was at entertainment reporter for step,
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Day and later at the New York daily news, one of the tasks we
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have as entertainment reporters is to cover the debts of
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celebrities. And so, as part of that
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coverage, we have to be attuned to the real-time social media,
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reaction any time, a notable figure passed away.
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And so each time I saw that reaction and you know, the
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people who respond with shock and grief and also posted fond
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memories of this person and just to kind of the Communal
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commiseration that happens in social media.
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Anytime this news kind of breaks.
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I always had this thought in my head which is do other notable
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people see how look see. This reaction and wonder will be
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said about them when they pass away and was just kind of this
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curious curiosity, I always had in the back of my mind that
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never quite went away. And then a couple of years ago,
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I decided to move away from journalism because I got
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basically burned out, it can be a very hard challenging career.
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So while I was trying to figure out Our next move and I went
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around to freelance by thought. We don't, let me try running.
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This novel has been my third time in about 20 years, trying
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to write a novel. So I thought I would take this
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premise that kind of stay with me while I was that developed.
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While I was, I would entertain a reporter and kind of a curiosity
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about that premise and that idea that stayed with me and kind of
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explore it in novel form, which is idea that what if somebody
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was so obsessed with out how the world perceives them that they
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actually use our, the death early just so they could read
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about what they're Legacy is and what?
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What people remember them for, and that was kind of the birth
9:20
of my debut novel. Yeah, that's amazing.
9:23
Well, as I mentioned, we loved it.
9:25
We both have our coffees here and as you can probably see,
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I've I've read it. It's just full of sticky notes,
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and full of comments, and full of just, like, I was obsessed
9:34
with this book and it's funny because I'm not a, I'm not a big
9:38
reader. As I mentioned, I really don't
9:41
read fiction very rarely is in it's usually a What we dated
9:46
reason in the past but I've been telling Kevin I wanted to get
9:49
more into fishing. So when he kind of said you
9:52
should read this book, I was like Wow and I so much in this
9:56
heavy dated to as someone also who, you know, I was born and
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raised in Canada. I am Indian descent but I've
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always had that that kind of divide that you talked about in
10:06
this book with, like, I'm not from India, I don't speak the
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language. And in when interacting with
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people who do and who are more deep in the culture, Archer deep
10:16
into religion. They can be a little bit of
10:18
that, you know, outside of feeling that I think David in
10:21
this book, we talk about feeling and so this is one of many ways,
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I really related to this book and it's just it was so
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fascinating. So it's so many things we want
10:31
to get into. And I think one thing I'm going
10:34
to remind you all have in the audience of many times as I know
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these aren't real people but I'm going to talk about them as if
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they are definitely really pretty Lively characters that go
10:45
Like thoroughly enjoyed but you know I do also want to quickly
10:51
get into your, you know, career as an entertainment journalist.
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I imagine as you write about the that's of celebrities.
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You also have to include kind of a short summary of their lives
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so that is a pretty unique type of Storytelling there.
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So could you help us detail a little bit?
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How you apply stirring telling in that field as a writer in?
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Entertainment news and what constitutes?
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A good entertainment story. Well, that's actually really
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good question. And one I haven't thought about
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in quite some time because I haven't been in, like, in the
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grounds of trying to create, you know, like the time I was
11:30
working at New York daily news. For example, I was right and
11:33
thing between 46 stories per day, so it was all kind of
11:36
instinct and adrenaline because you just have to kind of get the
11:38
story out and move on to the next one.
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But I was thinking about this question about what makes a good
11:43
story telling him in a news article.
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In this case, an entertainment news article and it's all about
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letting the reader. Know why is this story
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important? Why is this a story?
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You see the headline and you should click on it.
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And I was thinking about, you know, the headline is kind of
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similar to a title, right? You saw my book's title and you
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found it intriguing. That's the same.
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They would have to do in terms of writing a headline and you
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have you never heard about the celebrity per se.
12:05
As for example, were talking about obituaries.
12:07
You try to distill the essence of that person in a headline or
12:10
what makes them notable. Let's make them a person when I
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click on this person's, Click on the story and make them want to
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learn more. So it's very much about
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distilling. What makes this person
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important, what their individual Legacy was and then also what
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you know the impact that they had on maybe their Community the
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industry and just the world around them.
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So it really depends sometimes we write a story about celebrity
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and they were not even that good not the most famous person but
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they did some women or two notable things and he definitely
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couldn't bring that to the forefoot and then during my time
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as a reporter, we Cover. For example, the death of Robin
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Williams and that's a celebrity deaths.
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That always, I always remember because sometimes, when a new
12:53
story in general, might have a shelf life of, let's say, 24
12:56
hours, and then people kind of move on to the next thing.
12:59
But because Robin Williams was such an icon and his death came
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as such a shock and the nature of his death was such a shock.
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It was a story that had a rowboat Ripple effects for weeks
13:09
that as we report on different angles of the story of from the
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Legacy his legacy that he left behind the Nature of his
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passing, which is very tragic, and what his death meant to so
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many people, and so many industries from Comedy to film,
13:23
to General pop culture. So, these are the kind of things
13:26
you have to think about, in terms of when you're reporting
13:29
on a story, especially of a story, that's on her ongoing
13:31
nature, you kind of have to be responsive to.
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Well, why are people interested in this person?
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And what can we do to make sure that we share the latest
13:39
information or the most interesting information as it
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comes out. You also happen to be are Very
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first guess who is analysis or someone who writes literature of
13:51
a fictional nature. And the fiction is a very unique
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form of Storytelling and it is definitely one of the most.
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Long-lasting forms of Storytelling.
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We have that dating all the way back to the very ancient of
14:06
times. And it's so interesting because
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you know, these stories are mostly not real.
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Not stuff that's happened. So to you and this caused on
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your creative writing rules a little bit.
14:24
Why do you think we are constantly so drawn towards
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fictional stories? I think it's because I mean, I
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think back to, you know, my very early days as a reader and books
14:35
can transport you into other worlds and other perspectives.
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So, often were kind of in our day-to-day lived experience and
14:41
we only see things from our point of view and I think
14:45
fiction is Way a kind of challenging our own ideas of
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what life can be like, or should be like, and also kind of takes
14:52
us away. If we're me a kind of sometimes,
14:54
especially when I was younger, I consider it a form of traveling.
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You know, when you're younger you're not very much in control,
14:59
your destiny, kind of do what you're supposed to do.
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But with the books, I feel like I can explore the entire, the
15:04
outside world and a variety of ways in terms of character in
15:07
terms of location. In terms of the kind of
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Storytelling, I was reading and and I found that very valuable
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and I always find it very valuable.
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To this day that fiction is a way that we can either do even
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though it's made up. You can also often get down to
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essential truths in fiction and storytelling.
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And you can honestly sometimes see yourself in a new Eyes by
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seeing how that character lives these are her life or the
15:32
choices they make. So, I think it's a great way of
15:36
kind of getting outside of our own heads and our own day-to-day
15:38
experiences and kind be introduced to new ideas, New
15:41
Perspectives, new ways of being who cultures It's just, you
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know, it's so important that such an important kind of Ideal.
15:51
And it's something we talked about with one of our guests in
15:53
season, one about this, these relationships, we build the
15:55
fictional characters, these kind of parasocial relationships
15:58
where where you are building resiliency through.
16:02
These kids who don't have to experience it yourself, your
16:05
understanding, the emotions and connecting with them.
16:07
I want to add also, I think fiction is so important because
16:10
it teaches us, empathy. It's so easy kind of stay in
16:12
your narrow point of view and your narrow perspective.
16:15
Of and when you see other characters and how they so
16:19
often, you know, novels fiction, your Doula conflicts and how the
16:23
characters navigate conflict and how it was an internal conflict
16:26
or external conflicts, and just seeing a carriage, your kind of
16:28
endure whatever they have to do, kind of provides a greater
16:31
empathy because it might bring you a perspective on something
16:35
like a few were in similar shoes.
16:37
How would you approach that especially in our day and age
16:40
where I think we are so much locked into our bubbles about
16:42
this is what I think and I don't want to hear another
16:44
perspective. It's know.
16:46
To have the kind of empathetic thinking that I think fiction
16:49
and storytelling can provide do sit up parallelism between, you
16:54
know, fictions and kind of the stories of the Rich and Famous
16:59
in that regard because to the vast majority of the population,
17:03
the life of a celebrity or, you know, a singer or actor or
17:08
performer is kind of so far removed from our day-to-day
17:13
lives. It almost is It'll do you see,
17:16
you know, why do you think people are fascinated by the
17:19
stories of rich and famous? Do you see that parallelism or
17:23
do you think there are other reasons on top of that?
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I think it's kind of twofold. One is definitely me and lets us
17:30
in to a kind of world and a lifestyle that we will never
17:33
have access to. And so there's always gonna be a
17:36
curiosity about how people live in terms of the luxury and the
17:39
privilege of they have. And if that was fun to see right
17:43
now, for example, I'm watching the Gilded Age.
17:46
It's a lot of wealthy people. Opulent closing luxurious homes.
17:50
And when I'm out, when am I ever gonna see something like this in
17:52
my daily life? I'm not.
17:54
So I love having that window, you know, into that kind of into
17:57
that period and to what the Fashions were like and décor in
18:01
the architecture such area. But also and I think the other
18:05
thing is I think this kind of sense that we kind of are happy
18:10
to watch the wealthy, you know, as fictional storytelling
18:13
because we learned that, you know, even though with all their
18:15
wealth. And all their luxury, the not
18:17
necessarily very happy. You know.
18:19
None of that makes them happy if anything.
18:21
It can in the, you know, expand their misery, or the facts, you
18:24
know, their own inner conflict or just like of themselves and
18:27
that can sometimes, you know, you think of succession people
18:30
love that show email. They hate everybody on it and
18:32
part of its kind of fun. They're very smart characters
18:35
and they're very kind of lethal to one another.
18:36
But it's kind of to see, you know, riding about whether
18:39
traveling on a private jet. Or if there is Scotland or
18:42
wherever they are, they are the most miserable people there and
18:45
they won't even see. Enjoying it.
18:47
So this kind of makes you think like, okay, I love watching this
18:50
but I can see that if I was there, it might not necessarily
18:52
be any happier than I am. Now, there's so much I'm patent
18:57
that idea of the Rich and Famous being in kind of just do our own
18:59
little bubble. And we see this through this
19:03
Fascination through, you know, just the money that people spend
19:08
for pictures, or for all these magazines that exam or salvages
19:13
accession, it's such an interesting world.
19:15
And you, you know, you mentioned kind of the Gilded Age and made
19:18
me think back to the book as well.
19:19
The book takes place in 2044 for the most part and then goes back
19:23
in time. But it's often when you see
19:25
books go in the future like that, it's almost like science
19:28
fiction reason to like tell us about the future, but they're
19:31
both pretty isolated in one kind of low-tech environment.
19:35
So why was it important that that took place in 2044?
19:39
It was a purely indulgent decision on my part.
19:41
So before I wrote David had written two previous novels I
19:46
hadn't worked out. So when it came time to write
19:48
this novel, I might well let me write about let me get really go
19:51
for it and try it out right about everything I'm interested
19:54
in. So it's family, Legacy
19:56
celebrity, celebrity gossip and music.
19:59
Music is a, very big deal to me. And so at the time, I was
20:03
writing it, I really didn't think anyone was good reader,
20:05
right? I'm just kind of writing it for
20:06
myself and I really want to explore how music can really
20:10
shape, a character's life, you know, throughout her entire life
20:13
and in many different ways. And so, So, I thought if I'm
20:16
gonna write about music, let me write about the music that
20:18
shaped me and inspired me. And that's why I said in 2044.
20:23
Because once I figured out that my main character was gonna be a
20:26
matriarch, and she was to have children and she's gonna have
20:29
grandchildren but also want her to have my musical preference
20:32
just the way I could accomplish. That is by studying the book,
20:34
twenty years in the future. So I did I maybe, you know, it
20:39
made me a very happy writer to be able to kind of talk about
20:42
music and the way it's shaped me through the character of David
20:45
and I So lucky because I knew there's an unusual choice to
20:48
make it's not a normal traced. If there's no reason the novel
20:51
really needs to be set in 2004 you for except I wanted a life
20:54
like her 20s and 30s to kind of take place when you know our
20:58
current, you know, I current ERA but it made for a really
21:02
memorable reading experience for me.
21:03
I really consider this book to probably be the one of the great
21:06
creative experiences and my life in terms of the joy, it gave me
21:09
at one of the reasons was is that I decided to speed
21:11
completely indulgent and set the novel's 20 years in the future.
21:15
So I cried about the music that I wanted to write about another
21:19
very important element in the book that I relate a lot to as
21:22
well, is the meaning of names of a lot of these character you
21:28
really made sure to explain the meanings of dhabas as well as
21:33
every one of her children's names.
21:35
Why did you do that? Why is it so important that we
21:38
know what their names mean? I think it was something that
21:42
came very organically are the storytelling.
21:44
One of the first things I did. Added about like me and Carrie
21:47
Fisher. Jabba is that her mate name
21:49
would be dispelled and partly that's because my name was also
21:52
the smells on my birth certificate so that was what
21:54
inspired it. But unlike Gaba I did not
21:56
embrace the spelling. I decided that my character
21:59
would and her inspiration would be Oprah because I love that
22:02
store that Oprah. Her name was misspelled on her
22:04
birth certificate and she embraced it and that she's the
22:07
only open in the world. And that name is a signifier.
22:10
That means so much, has so much significance.
22:13
And I feel like, David be kind of person who always very had a
22:15
very Three not the high opinion of herself but she always knew
22:18
she wanted to do very important things and a part of that would
22:22
be having a very memorable name that kind of was her brand so to
22:26
speak. So her name was deeply
22:27
meaningful to her. So if her name was going to be
22:30
so important to her, but that means her children's names were
22:32
going to be even perhaps even more important than her own and
22:35
stupid, put a lot of thought into each of her children's
22:37
names. And so originally, I was only
22:40
given we discussed in the novel, the origin of Cally's name,
22:44
Arby's name and ribs. And then I'm like, well if I'm
22:47
doing those three names, well, I have to do CPR to like, I can't
22:50
leave her out. Her name is also important, so
22:52
that's just became a natural part of the storytelling.
22:54
And also became a very important thing for each of her individual
22:58
children, to understand better the relationship to their mother
23:02
and what her kind of her life story through the way.
23:05
She chose each of their names and I found that become a very
23:09
compelling part of David story and how her children gets a
23:13
understand her better and the stands.
23:15
She truly Ali does love him in a way.
23:17
She might not have always communicated.
23:18
Well, it's about her life. Yeah, it's pretty interesting.
23:22
I know that this book has been compared to secession a bunch
23:24
and we think it's just an easy comparison because a lot of
23:28
people have seen it. It's interesting because I think
23:31
I was listening to an interview buying Cox, who plays the father
23:36
in succession was doing about the show.
23:38
He said, one of the first things the writers told me was that he
23:41
loves his kids, right? And that was very important to
23:44
the character. and it was just showing in that unique way and I
23:49
think that's similar with Darwin would she does truly love her
23:52
kids unless I'm totally one and I don't think I am but she does
23:57
truly loved her kids and it's just it's a very complex
24:03
relationship as all of our relationships are with her
24:06
parents and I thought that was such an interesting story and it
24:09
brings up that importance of legacy and how naming her
24:12
children was another part of her giving I'm a legacy.
24:17
Why is this Legacy story? So important to Dava and so
24:20
according to the book, as a whole and why is it compelling
24:23
to us as humans? That's an excellent question.
24:26
And I think for me, it started out with just kind of thinking
24:29
through the premise of the novel.
24:31
What I first decided, okay, I'm going to have a main character
24:34
who's the leak news of her death early.
24:36
So she could read her obituaries.
24:38
The first question I had to ask myself is why why would she do
24:40
this? Why is it so important to her?
24:43
And one of the first things I thought of as well, it wasn't
24:45
very easy to make her a celebrity because I could, you
24:48
know, understandably I couldn't imagine an actress or a pop star
24:51
or some kind maybe would do this by wanted to kind of not, Take a
24:55
completely done this lab, Peru. I thought it'd be more
24:57
interesting. If my character does this
24:59
because she's entirely self made and that way, you know, she
25:02
didn't marry into wealth. She doesn't come from us.
25:06
Everything that she built up for herself, she did on her own.
25:09
And so if that's the case and her Legacy really important to
25:12
her, and not just her personal Legacy, but the fact that her
25:15
name who live on through the work of future generations.
25:19
And that is when I kind of found David as a character, it's not
25:22
just about. Like I want to hear like I want
25:24
to be really good. Things about myself, it was more
25:26
about. She just wants to make sure that
25:28
all her life's work is recognized.
25:31
And seemed and feels that has a place in the world that actually
25:33
did do good as much good as he thinks he does and beyond that,
25:37
and make sure that the work will continue and people who
25:39
understand what the David shastri name means.
25:43
So I'll came out of that. One thing I have to say what was
25:46
interesting for me a lesson. I learned, as I was writing this
25:48
novel, I used to think the word legacy belongs to the notable
25:54
the Because those are the people's lives that we learn
25:57
about. And then, as I wrote this novel,
26:00
that I realized, you know, Legacy is a word that belongs to
26:02
all of us, you know. We might not be famous or
26:05
well-known but we all kind of have an impact on the people and
26:09
our communities in our neighborhoods in our workplaces
26:12
and Legacy is just important for us to think about as it is for a
26:16
person who you know is much more well known in different kinds of
26:19
spheres. So that's I think why?
26:21
So important is that we all living things I learned while
26:25
writing job has character is really interesting to write a
26:28
character who's 7 years old and has had seen her life evolve and
26:31
change in many different ways and ways that she necessarily
26:34
expect to happen as well. When you do that you kind of see
26:38
the grand sweep of your life and you see how much that can impact
26:41
people for good or for bad? So maybe we should really think
26:44
about the choices we make because we are here so much more
26:48
impactful and other people than we realize.
26:50
And so that's what I learned a lot about the concept of Legacy
26:53
just in terms of writing And exploring David character.
26:57
Yeah, you know because I think what's really interesting about
26:59
this book? And this idea of like you see
27:02
that, I think we all kind of grapple with what, what's the
27:05
impact we're having. What are we going to leave
27:06
behind? It's such an essential story and
27:10
what we talked about a lot with storytellers, and whether it's a
27:13
novel, whether its data stores, and whether it's giving a
27:16
presentation to a bunch of salespeople, all storytelling is
27:19
about truth. It's about finding those
27:21
essential truths that resonate with person.
27:24
And I think We all grapple with this idea of legacy and what I
27:27
find really interesting but the book is there's this kind of
27:29
idea of familiar internal Legacy like what's my legacy within the
27:34
family? And we see this through her
27:37
conversation to put your grandchildren in these kind of
27:39
interactions, he has with them. And then also that public Legacy
27:44
because I think in the first year, when you think of Legacy
27:46
especially her, her idea was okay.
27:48
How is the public and remember, a house, the future, you
27:50
remember me? I'm someone I'm a public figure
27:52
but the more impactful The one that kind of connects with
27:56
people more I would say, is the internal Legacy.
27:58
Like you said, is that idea of well, what is my relationship
28:02
with my grandchildren? What are they going to remember
28:04
me? And I really love how this book
28:06
kind of talks about both tights and kind of finding that
28:09
importance between both because they both do serve a role.
28:13
Ultimately, that's what I think is I want to explore.
28:15
Like I think, you know, definitely brought my
28:17
entertainment, we playing background to this novel in
28:20
terms of how her Legacy would probably seems.
28:23
And how it would be altered when Her two big secrets, come out
28:26
about her. And so she's no longer seeing
28:28
the story. She was hoping to see, but was
28:31
much more interesting for me to explore.
28:32
Ultimately was a fact that she has to really grapple with her
28:36
relationships with her family and their legacy, a personal
28:38
Legacy. She has with every single member
28:41
of her family and she had to be reckoned with the fact that as
28:44
much as she wants them to be a certain way and this carry on
28:47
her Legacy a certain way. She has instilled in them the
28:49
values that she wants them to carry on after she's gone.
28:52
And so she has to kind of do the work and kind.
28:54
Reckon with the fact that her relationship she wanted to build
28:57
with them. Haven't always been strong
28:59
enough for them to like want to comply with her wishes so to
29:03
speak. But it was really a right
29:06
messing with the grandchildren. Was one of my favorite scenes in
29:08
the novel just because I think you really get to see Gaba,
29:11
really kind of being vulnerable in a way, she doesn't really let
29:15
herself be vulnerable. And so yeah, it was really,
29:18
really fun and interesting soups for private versus public
29:22
legacies, you know, I I hate it so much.
29:25
This time in Indian Canadian. I was born.
29:28
My parents were all born in the west.
29:31
I think that makes me second generation Canadian.
29:33
So, there's this interesting kind, of Paradigm in this sense
29:38
where Legacy for immigrants is so important because, you know,
29:43
my grandfather, he emigrated this country started a company
29:46
and now my all my adult family worked at this company, right?
29:50
So a lot of you know, lot of see a lot of like there's a lot of
29:53
connection points. This book.
29:55
And it's so interesting from that kind of I would say at
29:59
least in my story, right? This immigrant experience where
30:03
it's like how important it is how hard you know grandparents
30:07
work to get this country to make it life to believe us better
30:11
than we were how hard our parents work and kind of caring
30:13
that story. I think it's really emphasized
30:17
that importance for legacy as immigrants.
30:20
So I would love to talk about their self Asian representation
30:23
in this book is so Important, how important was representing
30:27
South Asians in this very accurate, very relatable way to
30:31
you. And how did you go about that?
30:33
That was a long question that I get your point completely,
30:37
because one of the first things, once it came up with the idea
30:40
for this novel. And I decided to commit to
30:42
writing it, I definitely never crossed my mind cross.
30:45
My mind. The character was always gonna
30:47
be an Indian American woman. It just was.
30:49
And one of the reasons for that, besides the fact that I'm also
30:51
an Indian American women, is that when you think of a Promise
30:55
of a novel like mine, you probably think.
30:57
Okay, fire white man, would be at the center of this story.
31:00
You're not thinking in a seven year old Indian American woman
31:02
at the center of the story because this kind of stories
31:04
about South Asians, and Indians and Indian Americans were
31:07
generally not at the center of these kinds of stories.
31:11
And so, it was really fun for me, just to be like, nope, this
31:13
character is Indian. She's indian-american.
31:16
And something that you touched on earlier, is the fact that
31:18
like, you know, my parents moved here and at me and my, my
31:23
brother and sister were born. Here, my parents moved here from
31:26
India in the 70s. And it was really interesting
31:29
for the fact that. Yeah, I don't, I don't know, I
31:31
don't know my native tongue and not super religious, but I do
31:35
carry the values of my parents and they're deeply important to
31:38
me. And the thing you were talking
31:40
about being children of immigrant parents, like, we
31:42
always want our parents to be proud of us because they work so
31:44
hard to bring us here and no matter what individual
31:48
differences might be at the end of the day, we just want to make
31:50
them proud. And so that's a pressure that
31:52
Dhaba feels even though she might not always feel.
31:55
The most connected with her culture.
31:56
I purposely made her an only child who has no connection to
32:00
her relatives in India and grows up in a largely white town.
32:03
Because I really wanted her to have this isolation and kind of
32:06
throughout her life kind of not always knowing her connection to
32:10
her culture, except that she feels very connected to it.
32:12
Through her relationship with her parents and how much they
32:17
were invested in her room. Her success and, you know,
32:20
everything that she was doing as a child.
32:23
And then, as adults, if that makes sense, That makes so much
32:26
sense. And, you know, I think this idea
32:28
of a culture for your connection for immigrants, if to your
32:31
parents is so important like like we talked about, I don't
32:34
speak Hindi, I took it for a year at UCLA because there's a
32:38
language requirement. They made my grandparents, happy
32:40
Josh, I forgive me here, but I don't speak Hindi, but I am, I
32:46
would say, a lot of the values of kind of different cultures
32:50
that my although I don't speak the language.
32:53
Although and when I go to religious events And I feel I
32:57
feel connected to do religion in the culture through the values,
33:01
my parents in part less so kind of the messages that they're
33:04
saying to me. But or to connection to
33:07
community is more about the values that my parents are proud
33:09
of me in the lessons. They teach me, even if it's in
33:12
English, right? So I think that's such an
33:14
important part of culture where I feel like there's a lot of
33:17
fear about if you don't speak the language that you're losing
33:20
it, but it's more about in my mind, transforming it and
33:23
connecting in a different way. Right.
33:27
I think we all have to sort of figure out our own relationship
33:29
to our heritage and our culture because I think so often
33:33
especially in pop culture like because for so long there are so
33:37
few representations of South Asians and Indians and popular
33:40
culture. I remember personally, I mean I
33:42
love the movie Bend It Like Beckham for example, when they
33:44
came out but everybody assumed that was my life because there's
33:48
only thing they were seeing on film that was like oh interview
33:50
people and you know, marriage is so important is, trust me
33:54
nervous, very important engine culture but Everything that
33:57
happens is that in that movie people just assumed.
33:59
Okay, that's your life and it's not my life for one thing I'm
34:01
South Indian which is very different from being North
34:03
Indian. And so one of the things I
34:06
really want to portray in this novel is that Indians and being
34:09
an Indian person, or being an Indian American Christmas.
34:12
We're not a monolith, we all have different experiences and
34:15
the way we grow up in the way, we were raised very much impact
34:18
here we are. And so, that was one of my goals
34:20
with this novel to because so often I think there are certain
34:24
expectations of what A South Asian novels supposed to be like
34:28
in terms of cultural conflict and emphasis on marriage and
34:33
arranged marriages. You know the quote unquote,
34:35
meddling Auntie's for a viable, they're all fun, I love them
34:38
all. But I just kind of wanted to do
34:39
something different and kind of score another way to tell a
34:42
story about being indian-american this country and
34:46
how important it is to my character and how it shakes her
34:49
that's very different from kind of the other storytelling I saw.
34:53
Yeah. Because you know, it's such an
34:54
important part of destroys and and we talked about we've talked
35:00
a little bit about representation on the show but
35:02
we haven't died as deep as we would like to but representation
35:05
in the writers rooms in the creation process is so important
35:10
because it allows you to tell more fantasize.
35:13
And like you said, we're not monolithic.
35:14
Like we are just so many different kinds of Indian people
35:17
something different kinds. But with the Immigrant the
35:19
person move here at an older age group, Going out so many
35:23
different types of that immigrant story and South Asian
35:28
representation is also this like such a crucial thing and we've
35:31
come a long way since approved from The Simpsons but it
35:36
representation is so important because it allows us to tell
35:40
more complex and compelling stories instead of the flat kind
35:43
of Indian best friend. So I think that was really
35:46
interesting about the book works.
35:47
Like it's not a story that to a non-indian person.
35:52
Would be unrelatable. Like, it's still a really
35:55
extremely great book, but as an Indian person, I saw those
35:59
connections. Okay.
36:00
Kevin, I talked about how he bet the spoke and he recommended it
36:02
to me. Yeah, I totally agree.
36:04
Yeah. Non-indian exhibit a but yeah, I
36:08
mean, even as, you know, someone not from Indian descent, there
36:14
are a lot of cultural elements in this book that I found
36:17
really, you know, reliable or really resonant with me,
36:20
particularly with, you know, the meaning of the names and the
36:24
idea of close family ties. I am Chinese, I'm from China,
36:30
born and raised. I will not be able to, you know,
36:33
fully appreciate the Indian culture element in this book.
36:37
But naming is a very important part in the Chinese family
36:41
culture as well. And I have been close with my
36:44
grandparents to. So those are the parts of the
36:46
book that really touched me and these are I think really some
36:50
cultural elements that are universally critical.
36:53
And I would definitely recommend this book to anybody.
36:56
It's that interesting thing we've been talking about this
36:58
whole time, even with like, audio books and music.
37:01
We've kind of dancing on this idea that different people read
37:05
stories differently, right? And find different truths in the
37:09
most important part and love to get you far from.
37:12
This is telling essential truths like Legacy applies to everyone,
37:17
but the Salvation aspect will hit me a little different than
37:20
your head. Kevin but Maybe the naming
37:23
aspect hits Heaven little bit differently because he doesn't
37:26
go by his birth name in America, right?
37:28
So and it's so interesting because it's kind of these
37:32
intersections with fiction story about writing a relatable story
37:36
and writing a popular stories about finding those hidden
37:39
Humanity truths. That is all together.
37:43
Yeah, 100%. That's what we turn to fiction
37:46
for, I think you're right. I think it's a really good
37:49
point. You make that we turn to a
37:51
certain novel because we're looking for specific things and
37:54
there are some aspects of the novel that might be more
37:56
resonant for one person the other but as long as it brings
38:00
it all together and hopefully makes it a compelling experience
38:02
for everyone is that sense will choose with the character and
38:05
more importantly the evolution of a character.
38:07
The reason we read stories that we want to see the character
38:11
achieve or And some essential truth about themselves and the
38:14
world around them. And ultimately, hopefully, even
38:19
my character, you know, my character is Indian American
38:22
women and she's a billionaire, by the way.
38:24
That's not very relatable at all.
38:27
But even though she's a lot of things that we might, not
38:29
personally relate to, hopefully this journey.
38:30
She goes on, in terms of figuring out, who relationship
38:33
with her past for direct relationship with our children
38:37
and thinking about how she's going to make, you know, it come
38:41
to terms the idea that she's actually dying What that means
38:43
for her and how like, I think one of the lines and I say is
38:46
like she has to figure out how do you say goodbye to life
38:48
itself? You know, I think those are all
38:50
things that we can all relate to, no matter what our
38:52
backgrounds are. And that's what we searched for
38:54
a novelist is try to kind of figure out things in our own
38:57
life by seeing how other characters kind of deal with
38:59
them in their stories. To close out every one of our
39:08
episodes, we have the segment called suspenders.
39:12
It. Works like this.
39:13
We ask you a fun random question.
39:15
That's unrelated to anything whatsoever and you can give us
39:19
any fun random answer. You feel like so question of the
39:23
day is what TV channel doesn't exist, but really should Wow,
39:31
that is such an interesting question you know for me
39:35
sometimes what I do and maybe this is a little embarrassing
39:38
sin that you can go down these YouTube rabbit holes where you
39:40
going to fly the programming from the 80s or the 90s and just
39:44
be like chalk block of programming including the
39:46
commercials so you can kind of a really good way to like you
39:50
could time travel back to a certain era.
39:52
So maybe a good channel that would just specialize in
39:55
programming from previous years so you can kind of remember what
39:58
it was like to live like 1984. Sample and the embracing, all
40:02
the news and pop culture from that time.
40:05
I think that might be kind of fun, and interesting, and I
40:07
don't think that's on the air completely.
40:09
I love that idea with the old commercials and everything.
40:12
I know I'm a big car book person.
40:14
So when they really salt, we printings with the actual all
40:17
dad's, it's just so interesting. It's, it's such a weird flaming
40:21
thing. In storytelling thing in itself,
40:22
it's like it pulls you right back because I can find reading
40:25
away or comic book and then in the middle it's like an ad for
40:28
Netflix. It pulls you out of it.
40:30
And so I think that's a really cool idea.
40:39
Welcome back to Top Hat. This is the part of the episode
40:42
where we dissect and analyze some of the key.
40:45
Learnings we got on this week's expert, Storyteller.
40:49
And this week, we had the amazing cure for November seti.
40:53
What was great about careful now she wrote this amazing book
40:56
called dabish, Rossi's last day, it's book Kevin.
40:59
I both read cover to cover absolutely loved.
41:02
So although we only had a short amount of time with her, We were
41:05
so excited to dive deep into her storytelling style and this,
41:09
just expertly written book and, you know, one of the really cool
41:13
things, we got to talk about and our first learning for this
41:16
week's. Top hat is D idea and importance
41:19
of fiction. You know, fiction plays such a
41:21
key role in our lives and your historically, for me, it that's
41:24
been more food television and less for books.
41:27
But I'm discovering the power of fictional books as well and
41:31
because it's beautiful. It is one of the it's such a key
41:34
part of what we talked about on the show, the ability to create
41:37
rules to create stories, that tell a central troops.
41:40
And what we loved about this is we got talk to you about the
41:45
importance of fiction, to teach us things to help us go through
41:48
things to help us relate to people and go through
41:51
experiences. We will never actually
41:52
experienced and this goes all the way back to episode.
41:56
We did with dr. Andreea, let amende, where we
41:58
talk about parasocial relationships in the power of
42:01
fiction has to make us more resilient people.
42:04
So it It was such a great conversation today because we
42:07
really got to understand deeper about the power fiction and how
42:12
certain books make us better humans, and can give us amazing
42:16
ideas about the future. The different ways.
42:19
We experience fiction, television audio books, the
42:23
physical text or the different times in our lives, whether it
42:28
was before big breakup, or When We Were Young, or when a dogs,
42:33
All give us different lenses to view a story.
42:36
And when we read or it's being stories in different ways or at
42:39
different times, we actually experience him differently in a
42:43
way that we kind of need at that time in our life.
42:47
So it's such an interesting and important conversation.
42:49
We had today about the power of fiction.
42:52
Yeah and I think another interesting aspect to this
42:56
fictional work is that it is rooted in keratinous reality as
43:01
well because she used. To be an entertainment
43:05
journalist and we did get to talk about this very interesting
43:09
and often unnoticed form of Storytelling.
43:12
That is entertainment news story or more specifically stories
43:17
about the deaths of celebrities and their obituaries.
43:21
Because, you know, this is where we get a quick summary of
43:27
certain celebrities life and learn about their impact in a
43:31
very quick way. And this type of Storytelling
43:36
carries a unique type of responsibility to it and this
43:41
pretty Central to this book as well.
43:44
What impact are you going to leave to this world?
43:48
How are people going to? Remember you?
43:50
When you die, this is a type of story where the Storyteller has
43:55
a lot of impact in. Yeah.
43:58
And you know, it ties right back to a conversation.
44:02
We had with Eric Tota, who was an early high at Facebook.
44:07
And when social marketing for them about DNA, this idea of
44:12
essential truths and how all great storytellers.
44:16
All good stories, whether it's in the board, when whether it's
44:18
in a sales pitch, whether it's in an amazing, fictional book
44:22
tells essential truths that can touch someone and impact someone
44:26
in a huge way because it finds that emotional resonance.
44:32
And this has been another great episode of the linen suit and
44:36
plastic tie podcast. Make sure to subscribe to our
44:40
show whenever you get a podcast, leave us a comment and review to
44:43
tell us what you're thinking. Follow us on Instagram at LSPD
44:48
pod and on LinkedIn. Linen suit in plastic tie and
44:51
thank you again for listening. I hope you're doing well.
44:54
You're doing amazing and you are one step closer to becoming a
44:58
better storyteller. Have a good one.