Latest / Talk Commerce / From Flatlining to Flourishing: How to Grow Your Podcast with Anthony Nwaneri
Transcript
- Brent Peterson (00:03.35) Welcome to this episode. Today I have Anthony Waneri. Anthony is the founder of getmorelisteners.com and the cohost of the podcast. The co-founder and cohost, sorry. Anthony, go ahead, do an introduction. Do it much better than myself and tell us one of your passions in life. Anthony - Get More Listeners (00:24.554) Brand off that was a 10 out of 10, 10 out of 10 start, man. You got the Winery, right? So that's a good start. But overall, my name is Amith Winery. I'm the co-owner and the co-host of the company's getmorelisten.com and the podcast while your podcast isn't growing. Really helping podcasts grow their shows, mainly business owners, coaches, consultants, and really build an audience with their shows. And in terms of passions about myself, honestly, a recent passion of mine. I was going out to really nice places and eating good food. I know that sounds a bit absurd, but the last four and a half years of my life has been a lot of working hard, late, you know, early morning, late nights. And I'm now realizing, oh, there's life. I can live. That's fun stuff to do outside of work. So I've recently like going to really nice places, having a beautiful dinner with other some friends or the girlfriend or the family. So that's a recent passion of mine. Brent Peterson (01:18.038) That's awesome. Yeah, and we were in a green room. We were talking about, you know, the fact that I lived in England for a while. And this has been I'm a little bit older than you. So this has been quite some time, but I lived in Birmingham in the 80s. And Birmingham wasn't known for its good food. But I will say that the UK in general is coming around for much better food and going out to eat. And I've had some fantastic meals now. Anthony - Get More Listeners (01:25.098) Mm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (01:35.011) Hmm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (01:41.263) Mmm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (01:44.648) Mmm. Brent Peterson (01:44.842) in different cities, even in Ireland, Scotland, it's the food culture has gotten, it's much better since the last 30 years. So. Ha ha ha. Anthony - Get More Listeners (01:54.938) Absolutely. Yeah, I think we still have some catching up to do in terms of the US, but overall, I agree. Head in the right direction. That's what counts. Brent Peterson (02:02.426) You've got Gordon Ramsay and all those other famous cooks now. Mary Berry. All right. So Anthony, before we get started on talking about podcasts, you did volunteer to be part of the Free Joke Project. So I'm just going to tell you a joke. And you just have to say, maybe this joke is a jokes it. Like it should be exited out of the whole joke union. See, that's a joke on Brexit. And or is it? Anthony - Get More Listeners (02:25.258) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Brent Peterson (02:31.598) free and you know it'll be free to travel across borders for the rest of our lives. So here we go. I got a couple of sock puppets for sale. Anyone interested in taking them off my hands? Anthony - Get More Listeners (02:48.982) Hmm, I think exited, you know. Brent Peterson (02:54.21) Yeah, I picked that one. It was particularly bad. Sometimes you just have to throw out one that's just horrible. All right, so let's talk about your business a little bit. Tell us how you got into GetMoreListeners.com and tell us all about the beginnings and why you decided to do it. Anthony - Get More Listeners (03:00.235) Yeah, I think I exited. Anthony - Get More Listeners (03:04.326) Absolutely. Anthony - Get More Listeners (03:17.894) Yeah, you know, I think in the beginning, to be honest with you, Brent, it was more so me as a young hustler at university college, for those in the US, trying to figure out different ways to make money online. I've always been entrepreneurial, but I didn't realize really at that point in time when I was like, you know, 17, 18, no clue what I wanted to do. I was that loud guy in the cafeteria saying, guys, you watch, I'm gonna be a millionaire, I'm gonna make it. But clueless, absolutely clueless in terms of what I want to do. So I decided, hey, you know what? I've got university. Let me take some time, three years. to just work on the foundations of a business. By the end of university, I want to have the foundation of a business set out. So once I'm done, I can just get working straight away. I'm not gonna look for a job because I've created one for myself. And I remember the night before I went to university, I said to my best friend at the time, dude, I'll be blown away if I make it to three years without dropping out. So for me, ever since I was younger, I've always really wanted to get into optioner-ship, but not really knowing what to do. So I bought myself some time at university. whilst I was there, you know, did a little bit of some Bob's Hero there. And, but it was by chance when lockdown happened, when I was at a point where I felt pretty lost as it was already. Cause you know, two years into university, you kind of get into the cold show, drinking scene, going out, partying, still having fun, not really taking work too seriously. Um, but I just felt a bit lost. You know, I was working hard long days, um, on a degree I didn't really care too much for. And I remember one evening kind of just sitting down and just saying, Hey, look, God. just give me some directions. I need to figure out what I'm doing myself because this clearly isn't working. Should I drop out? Should I stay at university? And that same evening, I stumbled upon an opportunity known as self-publishing. Are you familiar with like in a kind of direct publishing, Brent, yeah? So I stumbled across that and I was basically two hours into like a long ass webinar where I was like, do you wanna make money online publishing books? And I was like, hell yeah, I wanna make money online. What are you talking about? Yes, sum me up. Where do I make this money online? Quick and easy. That was kind of the mindset that I was in, right? But thankfully, by the grace of God, I was literally in one of the most amazing programs that taught individuals how to self-publish a book through Amazon and make an income that way. The niche and industry that I started to explore writing books upon was podcasting. And it was me and my business partner, Ty, cute you still again, my business partner and best friend. So that's kind of how I got off the door in terms of the podcasting space. Anthony - Get More Listeners (05:41.726) When it comes to get more listeners, this is like, you know, the fifth iteration of what we've been doing. So we started off by publishing books on podcasting. Our first one was a fail. The second one became a best seller podcasting made simple. podcast has started reaching out to us asking, hey, love the book, it was awesome. But I'm really curious to know like, how the hell do we grow the podcast? So we solve one problem, helping podcasters launch and the next one arose, which is helping podcasters grow. Now me and my business partner were completely obsessed with helping podcast, we were completely obsessed with the marketing side of podcasting, not so much the launch side or how to start, it's really the marketing piece. So apply the knowledge that we have when it comes to, you know, getting a book, becoming a best seller, selling tons of copy. two podcasts and then just through years of trial and error, start to figure a few things out. And that's where get more listeners came from, you know, that's a manifestation, essentially the growth program that we use to help podcasters grow. And that's how, that's how get more listeners came about from the publishing business. So it's kind of like the publishing business came first. And then from that we had get more listeners.com. Brent Peterson (06:51.542) That's awesome. That's a great story. I will say that I've just participated in my first book. And I wrote a bar in a book with a bunch of other writers. So I didn't write my own book, but I did participate in it. And it was a it was a good experience. And so I feel as though I probably have a book in me at some point, I'm not sure what it's going to be about yet. But I'm definitely down with that. So tell us about how you went about Anthony - Get More Listeners (06:58.25) Hmm Anthony - Get More Listeners (07:03.222) Hmm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (07:08.438) Hmm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (07:13.206) For sure. Brent Peterson (07:20.89) actually writing the book? Like what would and you said you had one sort of failure and then one that was a best seller. Tell us some background on that. Anthony - Get More Listeners (07:30.79) Yeah, for sure. So look, I'll be honest, see, Brent, I thought I was a genius, you know, where two young bucks, you know, I say fresh out of college, still in college, thinking we know everything about the world, thinking all of our creative ideas are gonna make us multimillionaires. But that definitely wasn't the case, you know, so when we first got into, you know, the publishing space, the whole idea is that you publish a book within a niche that there's high demand, and you're trying to find the unique angle or unique twist and to solve a real problem. So me and my business partner, whilst we were doing research, Jordan and Facebook group speaking to podcasters one-on-one, we thought, you know what? A lot of podcasters talk about this like fear of failure or anxiety or the fact that they grow their podcasts and now they feel like an imposter or they get a guest on to their show and the guesting is that big, but they actually have a really small show and then they feel like a bit insecure. Like all these different mental hurdles that comes along the way. And we kind of got this. one-eyed us, you know, we kind of got this one eye like, Oh my God, wow, this is a massive problem in the podcast and space. And there's no book about this. How could this be? We thought we'd hit jackpot. We thought, Oh my God, we're going to put our book. There's no competition. It's focused on this real problem. And you know what, instead of us, instead of us trying to just solve one problem, why don't we just make a book or we solve all of podcasts as big as hurdles. And that's what we call the book. Every podcast is big as hurdles. So we thought, let's talk about, you know, fear of fear of failure, anxiety, imposter syndrome, paralysis by analysis, all of these mental hurdles that podcast in my face and put that into a book. Sounds good, right? Solve all the problems. So we hit launch and I think it was like, for us, we thought that was gonna be the book that was gonna like, I don't know what the hell we thought. We thought it was gonna just like break the entire internet for some reason. And it wasn't until kind of me and my business partner, after the day of the launch, kind of run down to each other, we look at our dashboard, we hit refresh. Brent Peterson (09:04.779) Yeah. Anthony - Get More Listeners (09:24.53) like little kids, super, super excited. Can't wait to see all the money start flowing in and absolutely zero sales. It literally flatlined. And that was honestly, it was pretty embarrassing at the time because we were two youngsters, had no clue about really the podcast in space. This is our first project that we have to work very, very hard for. We spend and invest thousands out of our own pocket and months of our lives on end trying to create this book to solve all these different problems. So we're super excited. So. We felt pretty distraught and a bit kind of like a punch in the gut when we had no sales. But thankfully we had a second book, Podcasting Made Simple. And one of the strategies we had implemented was let's put out two books and then later on we can create a bundle from these two books. And we thought, you know, okay, let's put out two at the same time. So Podcasting Made Simple was super simple. How to launch a podcast, a clear promise, and also a clear problem we're solving. And that became a best seller. You know, like that sold tens of thousands of copies. So many podcasts we meet on a day to day basis will bring up the book, how it's held them along the way. And that just taught us one of our biggest lessons in business, which was kind of like, you can have all these fancy ideas, but the market doesn't really care. Like, you know, your audience don't really care. They just care, how will this idea impact me? And we try to confuse ourselves by serving everyone, and end up serving no one. And that was a painful realization that we felt, an expensive realization. And then podcasting made simple was a testament to just keeping things simple, being very focused and not trying to overwhelm people, just having a very clear promise and delivering on that promise. And that's it. You know, so that's kind of how we, that's kind of against the story of the good egg and the bad egg. Brent Peterson (11:08.402) Yeah, that's awesome. Um, there is an event coming up called the content entrepreneurs expo, uh, which, uh, is in may. So it's kind of, it's in a couple of weeks. Um, so I don't think this podcast is going to be out in time for people to actually attend the event, but it's CEX.events. And what you're talking about is exactly kind of what they help or what they do. They don't help anybody, but there's going to be, you know, six, seven hundred other. Anthony - Get More Listeners (11:14.848) Hmm. Brent Peterson (11:36.454) solopreneurs and small entrepreneurs that are trying to build their businesses around content. And that's how I got involved in the book project. But there's podcasters and there's people that are creating training programs, you name it, in the content space, they're going to be there. So it's been, this will be the third year, I think, for the event. But it sounds, I mean, for me, I think it's exciting to Anthony - Get More Listeners (11:43.423) Hmm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (11:55.114) Hmm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (12:01.485) Mm. Brent Peterson (12:06.082) to see that and for me in my experience around podcasting, my head sold my business and I was trying to figure out how to keep some kind of creativity in my life. And so I felt as though the being in business and now having to work for somebody, they were sucking every ounce of creativity that I had in me out of me. And this was my outlet for being creative is running the podcast. So. Anthony - Get More Listeners (12:07.434) Hmm Anthony - Get More Listeners (12:17.46) Hmm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (12:29.898) Mmm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (12:33.841) Mm. Brent Peterson (12:37.831) I had no intention of trying to make money at it. I think that's one of the things that, one of the things that for, I think, and I apologize, but one of the things that I think a lot of people have to do is they have to stick with it. Like in a podcast, I think what happens is a lot of people do it for eight weeks and they're like, well, they're not getting a lot of listeners, I'm just gonna give up on it. Is that your experience? So it's like. Anthony - Get More Listeners (12:48.79) Mm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (12:52.362) Mmm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (13:02.069) Mmm. Brent Peterson (13:02.538) Maybe they don't give it enough time to get some traction. Anthony - Get More Listeners (13:07.814) Absolutely Brent, you know, people want to get a six pack without, you know, doing setups. They want to, you know, look amazing without eating healthy. They want to become a millionaire without doing any work. To be honest with you, I would like all of those things as well. Unfortunately, it doesn't really plan out like that. So I do completely agree. I think for the most part, and Brent people kind of like, we were podcasters specifically, I think it's just unmatched, unmet expectations. The expectations aren't quite accurate. And maybe it's from marketing. Maybe it's from. you know, seeing other people like Joe Rogan, maybe just being super ambitious and inspiration. They want to kind of like conquer the world in eight weeks. But I think building an audience and podcasting is a long game. And I personally hate the doctrine of, you know, what's the, you know, slow and steady wins the race. Because I do think that when you say that, a lot of people take that the wrong way. Because a lot of people, I just heaven in the wrong direction with that podcast. They haven't got the right guidance. They don't really know what they're doing. They're just guessing and hoping things would just change if they're just slow and steady. And I don't think it breeds the right type of mindset needed to make it in podcasting. I think from my end, you know, slow and steady wins the race. To me, it's like whoever's the fastest runner wins the race, you know? So you have to move quick, you have to make changes when they're kind of needed. You also have to be patient. But at the end of the day, it is the fastest runner who wins the race and just saying slow and steady wins the race, like. A lot of people just take that as a, as a, as a cushion as to why things haven't changed after X amount of years. I think after eight weeks, that's not enough time for anything to change. Um, but if you've done it for two, you know, one year, two years, three years, and you're stagnant and nothing's changing. You probably have a look at that, you know, um, and I never have a think of what you have a think of what your next step should be and be intentional. You know, don't just rock up and just hope for the best. I know be intentional. There's other people on the other side that's podcast listening right now. Why should they care? Why should they come back for more? Why should they pay you good money to work with you or to your sponsors? If you're not keeping them entertaining, if you're not educating them, if you're not completely obsessing over how to create the best content for them, every single episode, every single week, every single year, if you're not comparing yourself to other people, that all these different components that people just kind of skip over because Anthony - Get More Listeners (15:31.882) They're either busy, don't have the time. And that's where we come in. You know, that's where the team comes in. That's where having the community comes in. That's where you really prioritizing the things that are important to you. And if the podcast is that, then give it a time of the day and take care of it. But manage your expectations wisely based on how much effort and how much sacrifice you're willing to give up or give in order to reach those goals. Brent Peterson (15:57.334) Yeah, it's such a good point. I know that earlier you had talked about keeping it simple. There is a acronym KISS, keep it simple, stupid. That's people need to follow. And I'm certainly guilty of making it too complicated. In a podcast, I know that one of the mistakes that I made when I first started was trying to make it too broad. Anthony - Get More Listeners (16:08.086) Mm-hmm. Brent Peterson (16:19.27) And there wasn't a niche there that people could really drill in on. And maybe my niche was to focus, but then I added more things in. So, you know, people would decide, do I want to listen to this or not? So I, you know, I think talk about a little bit about how do you choose that topic you want to do. When, when, when you're, when somebody's doing a podcast. Anthony - Get More Listeners (16:20.138) Hmm Anthony - Get More Listeners (16:25.302) Hmm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (16:35.114) Hmm. Brent Peterson (16:44.758) and they want to do a topic, but like you had talked about, your first book wasn't, maybe it wasn't as successful as you'd like it to be because you didn't make it as simple as it should have been. Anthony - Get More Listeners (16:45.652) Hmm Anthony - Get More Listeners (16:51.476) Hmm Anthony - Get More Listeners (16:54.998) 100%. So I think the first thing that I would say to anyone who's thinking about starting a podcast, um, is number one, just get the reps in. So don't worry too much about a topic or this or that. Like if you're a business owner, then yeah, talk about your business. Talk about lessons you've learned along the way or just interview successful business owners, friends. Um, but I think the first step is just getting the reps in and just figuring out if you enjoy this or not. Then just don't stick yourself up and like saying, I'm going to get to a hundred, you know, episodes and no, just get started and see how you go see if you like it, see if you enjoy, see if you see if you keep up for more than eight weeks. Cause most people will just fail, quit and never make it. And that's fine. So that's the first step. The second step that I would say once you've put in the reps and figured out, okay, I've got my cadence, I've got my schedule in, I'm comfortable with this right now. You know, I'm finding my voice. I'm finding my feet. I like how I'm kind of sounding at that point. It's not being a bit more tactical. So, okay, what topics should I cover? And why is that important in the first place? You see most podcasters kind of plateau, they flatline. And they believe that what they need is more exposure. You know, I need more exposure to grow. Let me promote on social media. Let me, you know, let me get high profile guests on. They do all these different things. They're absolutely crazy, but their number stays the same. Maybe it increases the tiny little bit, but going from a thousand downloads per month to a thousand and one downloads per month. It's almost a mockery. You know, it's almost like, ah, there's this wrenching feeling. So that's when the topic comes in, because instead of just focusing on exposure, we have to think you're already promoting, you're already doing all these different things to get people to your podcast, but a lot of them are deciding not to listen. So why is that? What are they looking at from the listeners perspective? They're looking at your episode titles, they're looking at the content strategy, they're looking at, you know, your show notes, they're looking at how's the, they're not thinking how's this podcast packaged, but so consciously they're just thinking in their mind, like, oh, which one of these episodes are relevant to me? And are they attractive? Are they intriguing? So when it comes to the topics, ask yourself these three questions. Number one, what is the biggest pain point that I have solved for myself that Anthony - Get More Listeners (19:09.322) that has resulted in the desired outcome or the lifestyle that my audience wants. What is an area of expertise that I feel extremely competent in and I could go toe to head with anyone in the world or I'm completely obsessed with to the point where I will outwork them in terms of my obsession of getting really good at this craft. And then the final piece is normally the simplest one. What is my business and who are my customers? And then what are my customers' pain points? I think those three questions will give you the answer of what topics to cover. Because oftentimes if you're experienced at something, that could be your USP. If you know more about e-commerce or a certain type of business really, really well, that could be your topic. But maybe you have a certain pain point that you've overcome yourself. Maybe it's an addiction, maybe it's a business problem. Maybe you cracked cold email. Maybe you cracked Facebook ads. Maybe you... figured out how to create like a backend system that doesn't break down with a coaching business where that's a big problem. Whatever that big problem is, if you solve it for yourself, that's value. So you just focus in on those topics. But it's not just the topics then how do we package it to be attractive? Because they're not seeing the topic itself, they're deciding based on episode titles. So now it's like, okay, instead of how to grow your podcast, five growth motor mistakes that 99% of podcasts make, that slows them down from growth. That's so much more attractive. This weird new hack with podcast SEO that no one is talking about that can ten actual growth in the next 30 days, something like that. You know, three simple quick fixes, three simple quick fixes to fast track your podcast growth without promoting on social media or targeting high profile guests. Holy crap, what are those things? I've been doing these two things. So what else could there be? You have to package this in a way that's attractive to a human who's going through a particular problem. And you as the podcast, I have to present your topics as something that's going to help them solve that problem. Brent Peterson (21:19.262) Yeah, that's really good. I think, you know, the other mistake I made was in the very beginning was making them too long. And the attention span of people is very short. And I think one thing that you've just said was, not only, you know, not only we want to make it short, but we want to make sure that they understand that they should even start listening to it, right? So some people look at they'd say, oh, if your episode is an hour and five minutes, they're like, maybe I'll think about this or Anthony - Get More Listeners (21:31.655) Mm. Brent Peterson (21:48.522) You know, maybe I'll try it, but if you're right, if the, if the con, if the topics aren't any good, they're not even going to start to look at it. They're not going to even, even try it. Right. Um, how important is the trailer? And I don't think for my first podcast, I don't think I ever even made a trailer. In my next podcast, I did do a trailer, but how important is that trailer and getting people to, to at least try your podcast out? Anthony - Get More Listeners (21:58.244) Mm-hmm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (22:15.85) That's a great question. To be honest, we don't have with trailers specifically, it's not something that we have experiment enough with. So I don't feel confident enough to give you an answer based off experience. I've got my thoughts on it, which I can give you. And I guess my thoughts would be like, I think it depends. I think a trailer in of itself can help you create a buzz and it's a short piece that people can kind of get a feel for the podcast, but it's always gonna be the content itself. Like we've all had, like, for example, you know, we've all seen trailer, every single trailer for like a movie that's gonna be out in cinemas looks awesome, looks riveting. But then you go to the cinema, you're 30 minutes in, and you're looking at your clock thinking, bloody hell, when is this gonna end? The difference is people aren't gonna be polite and stick around for the said end of the movie with a podcast. If they start listening and the content itself still isn't good, they don't care that a trailer is awesome. You know, they're just going to leave. So I think the trailer is only going to be as effective as your podcast ability to keep those listeners coming back for more. So if you've got an amazing trailer, but your podcast content itself isn't captivating, isn't engaging, isn't riveting, people just don't care. They're ruthless. But if you have an amazing trailer that gets tons of traffic and tons of traction, and your podcast is proven to keep listeners coming back for more, the effects of that are significant, right? It much more significant because you're retaining that audience, you're retaining that exposure. But if you just promote it to promote this trailer, who cares? Like, it's going to be the content all day, every day. That's going to keep people coming back for more. Brent Peterson (24:00.018) Yeah, that's good. You mentioned failure earlier. What do you do? What kind of tactics do you have to overcome some of those mental fears of failure? And I know that you said your first book wasn't super successful and your second one was. Why did you decide to reinvent it and do it again? What did you draw from to do that? Anthony - Get More Listeners (24:28.146) So I guess like to give context, so the first book and second book, one failed, the other one was successful. They were published at the same time. But of course, along the way, so in terms of that failure itself, it was just learning from the lesson. Like, you know, failure is not really failure, just feedback. So if something's not working, there's a reason why it's not working. I think it's, I used to be like this, and I sometimes find myself doing this in something that I'm actively working on, which is, When something doesn't work, just ask myself a simple question of why, and then actually creating a hypothesis. It didn't work because of, because I didn't have enough social media permissions. Cool, next time I'm gonna pose this on my feed and promote it and see if that makes a difference. Oh, that does make a difference. Cool, my hypothesis was correct. But in terms of how I think about a thing and how I think through it. Anthony - Get More Listeners (25:31.826) I don't know, I think... I think for myself... I know that because I'm playing a long game, little failures along the way or big failures along the way don't matter as much. And it's just bound to happen. Like if you just accept failures going to happen, like, of course, and the more times you fail, good, you know, because you're getting more datasets of what not to do. And then you know what to do. So to me, I just see failures as a piece of feedback that tells me don't do that. try something different. If I fail again, don't do that. Try something different. And every single time I fail over and over and over and over and over and over again, I learn something new. I take that as an experience onto the next year and onto my next phase and make it make it just remember it. Sometimes you forget a lesson from a failure. And that's the worst. So so to me, fellas, it's the data sets feedback and you have to just keep pushing forward regardless of of that knowing that and long enough time horizon you eventually get to your specific goal. Brent Peterson (26:36.842) Yeah, is there a podcast about what did I fail at? That'd be a good one. People talk about their failures. Just getting on there. I think as an entrepreneur, do you think as an entrepreneur, you have to have something that's a little bit different than other people? Like there's a little bit of energy or something in there. There's not magic, but something that other people don't quite understand. Do you think you have something in there that to be a good, I shouldn't even say that. Anthony - Get More Listeners (26:45.418) Yeah. Brent Peterson (27:05.014) just to be an entrepreneur, do you think you have to have something that brings you happiness other than just getting a paycheck? Anthony - Get More Listeners (27:22.906) I think to be a good entrepreneur, there needs to be this constant... Anthony - Get More Listeners (27:31.899) I think Being a good entrepreneur, to me, is someone who is obsessed with what they do and extremely... Anthony - Get More Listeners (27:48.894) dissatisfied with just being okay, just getting by, just having a normal life, you know, just having normal food, just having, you know, normal amounts of wealth, just having normal access as everyone else, living kind of a normal mundane life. I think it's kind of, it's not, I wouldn't say it's not a disease, but it's just like this, this knack, like this itch, this like itch for more. When you're not doing more, you feel lost. And when you're not... creating. I think entrepreneurs are a perfect manifestation of someone who's just a creator. You know, who just creating and abundance, the only difference is that things that they create is done with a purpose and intent for commerce, you know, for a transaction doesn't take away from it, you know, they're still creating to for a better world, still creating a plane, so creating a app on your phone, we can order an Uber and it gets you and takes you exactly where you want to be. They're just creating, you know, it's one of the highest levels of creation because your creation impacts so many other people. And the more people you can impact with your own creation that came from your mind, the more you compensated for it, you know? So that's the difference between like, an entrepreneur versus just someone who's like, you know, like an artist who just creates art, is the impact I think goes a lot further away. I'm in terms of. in terms of the work they're producing. Brent Peterson (29:16.738) unless you're Picasso or something like that. Brent Peterson (29:22.254) Um, so I'm in a group called entrepreneurs organization and, um, and we meet once a month as a group, as a small group. And, and, and a lot of times, well, we, we split up our meetings into personal family and business and a lot of entrepreneurs focus only on the business. And I'll make a stereotype. A lot of young entrepreneurs think it's all about. Anthony - Get More Listeners (29:24.203) Unless you're, unless you're Picasso, of course, yeah. Anthony - Get More Listeners (29:42.739) Mm. Brent Peterson (29:50.25) just doing business and I know I made that mistake when I was your age, where all I did was work on my business and didn't spend enough time with your family. How do you coach an entrepreneur to have some kind of balance in your life? Anthony - Get More Listeners (29:52.269) Mmm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (29:57.397) Mmm. Anthony - Get More Listeners (30:12.99) I'm not there yet. So I won't be the person to coach on it. You know, that's one of my biggest struggles is time. How I try to do this now is like, there's not really work life balance. I guess to me, it's more, how I've tried to structure things for myself, which has been very beneficial, is I work extremely hard when I'm working. And I have each quarter, multiple different fun events, either with my girlfriend, with friends, with family, whether that's a nice meal somewhere, somewhere new, whether that's going to like a weekend trip away, whether that's visiting my friends over the weekend to kind of, you know, see their new houses and just spend some time with them. So that when I'm working, I don't feel like I'm gonna burn out and lose my mind. I'm just like working, but I'm working. And then, oh, cool, next week I've got this coming up. Not every week, I think that's a bit, that'd be a bit, you know, a bit much. I like my own time as well, but at least what, you know, once or twice a month, doing something a bit more exciting, a bit more fun, putting the money to good use and letting money flow and enjoying life. Because I always find that when I go out and I enjoy life, I spent all my family, my friends, my girlfriend, have all these different experiences. I always come back to work, feeling refreshed, feeling renewed, feeling excited, feeling more creative. So now for me is thinking more in advance. Cause I know that if you're a young entrepreneur, You're just thinking about today, tomorrow, and that's basically it. Like you're not really thinking far in advance. So like weeks go by and you forget you've seen your friends. You forget you've had a shower. Like, you know, you forget like to eat, you forget all these different things because every single day is like, you're on this wheel. So for me now, I just plan ahead, you know, okay, cool. I know I'm gonna be busy. So who do I wanna meet this month or next month? Okay, cool, let me give them a text. Let's sort out as soon as possible. That's now in the diary. cool for the next three months. I've got all the things I've got all the people I want to see organized, I'm going to meet them, I'm going to see them have a good time. That's not still work life balance, but it's balanced enough for me. Brent Peterson (32:17.866) Yeah, that's awesome. Looking through the end of the year here, what do you think is a trend that's gonna happen? How do you think our economy is gonna go and what should we be focusing on in terms of, let's focus back on a podcast. What would be the things that you would focus on if you were not starting one, but like you said, you've flatlined it? Anthony - Get More Listeners (32:51.734) this is going to be such an unsexy answer. I'll just obsess over the content. Like I genuinely think just obsess over the content. Listen back to old tape, get feedback from your audience, just obsess over making this the best podcast within your niche and industry. Just ask yourself the right questions. What are the people doing that I'm not doing? That's actually amazing. How can I position my podcast as something different and unique in this market? Is my audio quality the best it can be or do I have to upgrade my equipment? Am I currently guessing with my content strategy or is there a way for me to figure out what my audience are actively already searching for? How can I create the best podcast on planet earth for the audience I want to serve? If you just obsess over the content of the podcast, start there, just start by getting more listeners coming back to your show for more before you think about getting exposure. It doesn't make sense. Spending time, effort, money, promoting your podcast and sending people on social media or someone's audience who has a big guest to come to your podcast, have a big spike. and them inevitably leave because the content isn't good enough to retain the listeners you want, is just literally burning thousands and thousands of hours of your time without the result you want. The podcast isn't growing for a reason. And the reason, unfortunately, most of the time is because it's not positioned in the right way to be attractive to the listeners you want to reach. and the content and talking points aren't as attractive to listeners you want to reach as you believe they are. If not, it will be growing month after month. And finally, you're probably not completely obsessed with over making the best content ever. You're probably just stuck in the nuts and bolts of pushing out a podcast every single week. And oh, let's just show up and see how it goes. That's not how the best podcasts in the world operate. And if you wanna operate and have tens of thousands of listeners, Anthony - Get More Listeners (35:12.35) You have to start behaving in alignment with the person you're trying to be. And they're completely obsessed with being the best at this podcasting gig. Brent Peterson (35:20.274) That's a great answer, thank you. Anthony, we have a few minutes left. As I close out, I get everybody a chance to do a shameless plug about anything they'd like. What would you like to plug today? Anthony - Get More Listeners (35:36.754) What would I like to plug? Look, if you got to this point, and you don't think I'm a total asshole, pardon my French, but I'll check out why your podcast isn't growing. So that's our podcast will help you gain clarity around the reasons why your show isn't growing. There's nothing more frustrating than a show that's just stagnant for two to three years, maybe less time. But if you're impatient and you're nosy, you wanna figure out why it's not growing sooner rather than later, check out why your podcast isn't growing. is a great starting point. Brent Peterson (36:08.034) That's perfect and I'll make sure I put those in the show notes. How can people get in touch you if they want to contact you? Anthony - Get More Listeners (36:16.486) Look, I'm experimenting, you know, I'm experimenting with LinkedIn at the moment, trying to get my content up. So I'm sharing freely, sharing consistently, um, and just really, uh, provide a ton of value on LinkedIn at the moment. So LinkedIn is a place to find me. So Anthony Winery, um, so Anthony Winery, you can find me there. So that's Anthony and then N W A N E R I. Brent Peterson (36:28.494) Okay, what's your? Brent Peterson (36:35.938) Perfect, I'll make sure I put those in the show notes. Anthony, it's been a pleasure speaking to you today. It's been enlightening, thank you so much. Anthony - Get More Listeners (36:46.771) Absolutely.