Latest / When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom / The Bodies In the Barrels & spooky video games

Transcript

The Bodies In the Barrels & spooky video games · When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom

• 0:30
  Everybody in serial killer country.
• 0:31
  My name is Brittany. Ransom, my name is Brian jr.
• 0:34
  And this is when Killers get caught a podcast devoted to deep
• 0:37
  dives, into the lives of killers.
• 0:38
  We love to learn about every week.
• 0:40
  Brian and I will discuss two true crime stories that
• 0:42
  resonated with us and then I will lead you down the darker
• 0:45
  path of learning about who killer was how they grew up,
• 0:47
  have a killed and most importantly how they got caught.
• 0:52
  Then we have Brian to slow things down and give us a little
• 0:54
  bit of a paranormal palate cleanser as we talk about creepy
• 0:58
  things in life. Maybe the Paranormal, maybe a
• 1:00
  Cryptid, maybe just something weird.
• 1:02
  He found on Reddit, who knows, but this week on True Crime, I
• 1:10
  want to talk. Well, actually before we talk
• 1:14
  about your crime, just a reminder, you have only 10 days
• 1:18
  left to get anything from the mood new merch launch.
• 1:23
  The a Squatch disappears. April 30th.
• 1:26
  That's all I'm going to say on that.
• 1:28
  Oh God. You got guys got like a, was it
• 1:31
  two weeks now? Yeah, less than two weeks now.
• 1:34
  Yeah, it's gonna be gone. I got to order another shirt
• 1:38
  then yeah. I was thinking about it, myself
• 1:42
  actually. Yeah, because the heavy tease,
• 1:45
  they they feel great. Colors are good to.
• 1:49
  That's what I really liked about this one.
• 1:51
  It really bright and vibrant? Yes, absolutely.
• 1:55
  But let's start with this week, in True Crime and I'm going to
• 1:57
  start with something that's actually really awful, but it
• 1:59
  was super intriguing to me. So, this happened only a couple
• 2:05
  of days ago. This woman was found in a hockey
• 2:13
  bag seeing her own basement. Is that your story too?
• 2:18
  No, no, I read that one. I was like, this is a good one.
• 2:25
  It's weird. Right?
• 2:26
  So she's fighting a hockey bag in her own basement.
• 2:30
  Stabbed almost 60 times. This is in a suburb of New York
• 2:36
  City. The woman's name is orsolya
• 2:39
  Gaul. And she's a married Mama to her
• 2:44
  13 year. Old son was upstairs in the
• 2:46
  house when this happened, particularly all the news
• 2:49
  articles were very like, I can't believe this happened in this 2
• 2:52
  million dollar house. I thought that was kind of a
• 2:54
  weird thing to lead with, right? They performed a preliminary
• 3:00
  autopsy on orsolya. She's 51 years old, or was 51
• 3:03
  years old. And there were 60.
• 3:05
  Sharp blunt force injuries to her neck torso, and her left,
• 3:09
  arm her card or card, artery carotid, artery and trachea.
• 3:15
  Have been sliced. She wounds to her fingers in the
• 3:17
  palms of her hands defensive wounds.
• 3:20
  The interesting thing about this is that the day that this
• 3:22
  happened so it would have been two Fridays ago.
• 3:26
  She told her 13 year old son who was upstairs.
• 3:28
  He's in his room, I'm going to go see like a movie or show.
• 3:33
  Now the police have said that based on looking at like her
• 3:37
  cell phone. She went to meet up with another
• 3:39
  man, but they have no idea why? No one's saying that.
• 3:42
  This was like a fair type thing but they're not actually saying
• 3:48
  what it was. Either she met somebody else
• 3:52
  line. They were doing like a bumblebee
• 3:54
  FF thing so that you can make a new friend or something like
• 3:58
  that. Yeah.
• 3:59
  Who knows but her husband and the older son who 17 were out of
• 4:04
  town because they were looking at colleges.
• 4:06
  Hmm, they don't know who this man is.
• 4:11
  Just that somehow he convinced her to let him into the house.
• 4:15
  Went down into the basement, stabbed her to death, shoved her
• 4:19
  into a hockey bag and then texted her husband, your whole
• 4:24
  family is next They didn't find her until the following day.
• 4:32
  At about 8 a.m. the bag itself, was not in the house, but they
• 4:39
  know that she was killed in the house.
• 4:41
  The suburb is Forest Hills. For anyone who wants to know,
• 4:45
  just the the duffel bag was found about a half a mile away
• 4:48
  from the home. So he killed her, put her in a
• 4:51
  duffel bag and then just walked through the house.
• 4:58
  Like this. It might had this has got to be
• 5:00
  somebody this family new that's so bold, right?
• 5:04
  Yeah. So I'm reading this and it said
• 5:08
  that she disappeared some other times.
• 5:10
  Like she ran away or something. She was missing and she doesn't
• 5:13
  a 20. They just as report overeating
• 5:17
  that way. Okay, so there was also a
• 5:19
  surveillance will actually nothing else.
• 5:21
  Oh no this is even worse. I missed this detail the first
• 5:25
  time I read this article, it's just one sentence, which is that
• 5:29
  surveillance videos in the neighborhood.
• 5:33
  Captured unidentified person, Wheeling a duffel bag down a
• 5:36
  sidewalk in about 438 about. So that means he stayed in the
• 5:41
  house with the child all day long.
• 5:44
  Oh, my God. Was this all for like 12 hours?
• 5:48
  He was just there, was he in the basement then?
• 5:51
  And the kid who probably was. Yeah.
• 5:54
  My God. Oh my God.
• 5:58
  That is ultra scary but then they said the thing that let
• 6:02
  them know that there was a trail of blood.
• 6:05
  Yeah. From the house to the dump site.
• 6:11
  Which means there was probably blood in the house to like just
• 6:15
  leading from the basement out through the house.
• 6:18
  Oh, yeah, absolutely God. That's crazy.
• 6:22
  Obviously, the dad came back and he's just like worried because
• 6:25
  he's just like, was this an attack on our family?
• 6:29
  You know, and the police have absolutely no idea.
• 6:32
  What's happened is crazy. Hopefully we get some more
• 6:37
  information. That's death.
• 6:40
  I will keep an eye on. Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:44
  Goodness gracious. Brittany, no it's eat.
• 6:47
  Look. Okay.
• 6:47
  See I this is like the second stuffing story.
• 6:50
  I saw this week because he doesn't want some guys from his
• 6:56
  grandma into a freezer, a chest freezer.
• 7:00
  Freezers are so popular. Those like square ones look but
• 7:04
  in your basement. Yeah, I have one already Easter
• 7:07
  so much extra food. Yes, we have one as well in the
• 7:11
  laundry room but it's just just, Why do people always put bodies
• 7:17
  in there? Why are the perfect size for a
• 7:19
  body? Remember that lady.
• 7:20
  I talked about on Tick-Tock last year.
• 7:22
  Who killed her husband in California?
• 7:25
  Drove across the country with him because her family needed
• 7:28
  her stored. The body.
• 7:30
  This happened in New England, stored the body in a Storage
• 7:34
  unit and paid for it and kept it plugged in for years.
• 7:39
  It wasn't until he was about to die, but she told her kids.
• 7:45
  Oh yeah, I killed her dad, and he's in a storage unit.
• 7:48
  Oh my God, this is ridiculous. Oh, but this one's weird because
• 7:55
  the old, the grandma. She wasn't Dead when he put her
• 7:57
  in the freezer. She was, oh no, I died in the
• 8:00
  freezer. So, yeah.
• 8:04
  That's horrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:06
  But that's not my story this week.
• 8:08
  Okay. Then I have a lighter story this
• 8:12
  week, so a fourteen-year-old, Massachusetts girl is at home
• 8:21
  alone. Well, before she gets ready for
• 8:23
  school, I guess and she hears some commotion going on.
• 8:28
  Someone has broken into her house.
• 8:31
  Okay, the garage And this Brave little girl, she grabs two
• 8:39
  kitchen knives. And scares off the Intruder.
• 8:44
  Oh hell yeah. We love to hear?
• 8:48
  Yes. She's apparently.
• 8:50
  This happened like 720. She woke up, she heard a sound
• 8:55
  and she's like she gets the knives and she just screamed at
• 8:59
  him. She's like I like get out of my
• 9:01
  house. You don't belong here and then
• 9:03
  the guy just Jets, he's 50 years. 88 years old his name was
• 9:10
  Joseph Ridge. In the girl's name.
• 9:12
  Goodness gracious, where's he's too damn old.
• 9:18
  Heard a to be commit tax fraud or something.
• 9:22
  Right. Her name is Avery chrome mirror
• 9:26
  what happened core job for Mirror?
• 9:28
  Whatever. That's a good job Avery.
• 9:31
  Yeah, yeah and not only this, you scare him off, she got her
• 9:37
  phone out and she recorded him leaving in his car.
• 9:42
  So she got his license plate number and she called Maya.
• 9:47
  One. She was like, I got him out of
• 9:48
  the house. I scared him.
• 9:51
  Yeah. It was like, this is great.
• 9:59
  This is all. Yeah.
• 10:03
  And apparently, this guy is Rich, he's been, he has a
• 10:07
  history of crime. I'm sure breaking.
• 10:12
  You don't just start robbing houses at 58 years old, you're
• 10:17
  not, you know what, I've had a long life as a janitor and now
• 10:22
  that I've retired, I'd To start breaking into people's houses at
• 10:25
  7 a.m. yes. I just don't see it.
• 10:31
  No, no, no, no. He has a history of crime in and
• 10:38
  yeah, he has no connection to the family, which is weird.
• 10:40
  So it's just a random house and he was like, hmm.
• 10:43
  I know they're not going to be home.
• 10:45
  So I'm just breaking their. Wait, why would you assume that
• 10:48
  people aren't home at 7:00 in the morning?
• 10:51
  People are generally getting ready for work.
• 10:53
  This is the worst side is the worst time.
• 10:56
  I would assume that nobody's in the house at 1 p.m.
• 11:00
  Don't assume that about my house though.
• 11:01
  Y'all we all work from home. We here and there are guns.
• 11:05
  Ends. I was just thinking I was like
• 11:09
  well if somebody broke into my house, my kids over my weapons
• 11:12
  are so they can easily imagine your two small children running.
• 11:17
  After a man with sword look here.
• 11:19
  They they they would they were listen they were wreck that
• 11:25
  man's ankles and me. Yes, he'd be scared as fuck and
• 11:29
  knee replacement. It's like it's like now you see
• 11:33
  running with swords. From eyes.
• 11:35
  Real ring with the freaking Eagles.
• 11:37
  With the sword side, your legs and just flying at somebody.
• 11:42
  That's what my kids would be like I know you don't know.
• 11:44
  I'm talking about. That's okay.
• 11:48
  But those are good stories today.
• 11:50
  Yeah, well, we haven't.
• 12:05
  Talked about Australia and a while Brian.
• 12:07
  This is true. And so I thought I would bring
• 12:10
  us back to the land down under for a pretty cry.
• 12:13
  It's Christ is described as the crime That Shook Australian and
• 12:18
  I'm referring to a case known as the bodies in the barrels
• 12:24
  murders. Do you know anything about that?
• 12:27
  No, that is a very long name. Well, they also sometimes refer
• 12:32
  to them as the snow Town murders, but it's particularly a
• 12:35
  Name because the remains were found in snow town but for the
• 12:38
  most part, the people were not killed there.
• 12:43
  Also, the people of snow town, do not enjoy the fact that their
• 12:47
  town is connected to this atrocity.
• 12:52
  It was one of the most reported murder trials.
• 12:54
  And one of the longest trials in American history, took about six
• 12:58
  years to handle all of the cases, against the four people
• 13:04
  involved. Today we're going to be talking
• 13:06
  about John, Justin bunting, Robert, Jill Wagner, James
• 13:10
  spiridonov last last kiss and Mark Hayden along with the 10
• 13:15
  victims who were discovered in abandoned Bank fault in the city
• 13:17
  of snow town. And two, other victims, who were
• 13:20
  buried other locations. This was an exceptionally
• 13:23
  intense case because the ringleader of the group John,
• 13:27
  manipulated these much younger men into believing that the
• 13:32
  majority of the victims were homosexual.
• 13:35
  Will pedophiles. And that it was a valid reason
• 13:38
  to torture and kill them. It's a particularly wild story
• 13:41
  and almost all of our Killers have connections to child abuse.
• 13:51
  So, I am giving you your trigger warning for that today.
• 13:55
  This story mainly revolves around John, Justin bunting, so
• 14:01
  we're definitely going to start with him.
• 14:02
  And then I'll add in the other players.
• 14:05
  So before John Justin bunting was the ringleader of a group of
• 14:08
  killers, he was just a little boy born in and Nala,
• 14:12
  Queensland. On September. 4th 1966.
• 14:15
  He was an only child. And from the beginning, they
• 14:17
  were actually serious issues with his health.
• 14:20
  He wouldn't breastfeed and he wouldn't eat his parents.
• 14:24
  His mom had to almost hand feed him to make sure that he was
• 14:27
  like alive. And he was always very, very
• 14:30
  underweight. His father was just like this
• 14:33
  little eventually passed. I The kids got to eat eventually
• 14:38
  but finally Mom decide to take him to a doctor where he was put
• 14:41
  through all these tests and they sent him to a specialist who did
• 14:45
  a bunch more tests. And finally, when those results
• 14:48
  came back negative, the doctor actually just decided to do
• 14:51
  something. That was a little bit off the
• 14:53
  cuff. He had the nurse pull of
• 14:56
  smelling salts and for no one who's actually smelled.
• 15:00
  Smelling salts, it clears. The room, it's really strong.
• 15:05
  And everyone in that room, parents nurses doctor reacted
• 15:09
  except for John. That was the problem he couldn't
• 15:13
  smell and he had never been able to.
• 15:16
  The diagnosis is anosmia AKA smell blindness, and if people
• 15:21
  don't know, having a lack of sense of smell, also impacts
• 15:24
  your ability to taste things as well.
• 15:26
  It changes how your experience with food is and Pretty much.
• 15:32
  What John's mom had to do, was figure out what foods he could
• 15:37
  taste and kind of get him some desire to eat.
• 15:43
  But after that, did it did work out and he became, or at least
• 15:46
  he started to look like a normal little boy.
• 15:48
  He was raised in a really strict household where almost every
• 15:51
  moment of his day was pre-planned, but unlike most
• 15:54
  kids, he didn't really Ruble at that.
• 15:56
  He, he found comfort in the consistency as he Got older
• 16:01
  though. His parents did loosen his grip
• 16:02
  and when I say he got older, I mean like six or seven years
• 16:06
  old, they were like, you can go outside by yourself and the new
• 16:10
  rule was just be home for dinner.
• 16:13
  He was never late. And sometimes he would show up
• 16:18
  like a minute before the deadline just to make sure he
• 16:21
  was, always always following the rules, still comforted by
• 16:25
  routine, like when he was little Heading into elementary school,
• 16:29
  he was quiet, but friendly a pretty low Frills friend, which
• 16:32
  a lot of people prefer like this was not a kid who was clingy.
• 16:37
  He was virtually friends with everyone and Elementary School
• 16:40
  and so he was always invited to everybody's birthday parties and
• 16:43
  even to go on holiday with other students families.
• 16:47
  That is not thing that we do in America.
• 16:51
  However, probably the single most dramatic moment in John's
• 16:55
  life happened in the summer of 1974 when he was eight.
• 16:57
  Years old. He and his friends were playing
• 17:00
  in the streets of Anala like little boys do, but it was
• 17:02
  really hot and so they ended up going into one of the boys homes
• 17:05
  to play in the basement around noon.
• 17:08
  His friends older brother kind of stuck his head in to check on
• 17:11
  them and John, didn't notice how his classmate behaved whenever
• 17:19
  the brother kept coming to the door, but the little boy was
• 17:22
  definitely scared. Eventually, the older boy came
• 17:25
  back. He had a rope in his Hands.
• 17:27
  And was just like, do you babies want to play a big boy game?
• 17:34
  The brother, the younger brother said nothing and just looked at
• 17:38
  the floor, but John was just like I don't understand what's
• 17:41
  going on here. No, thank you.
• 17:43
  And the older boy, immediately, just like punched him and
• 17:47
  knocked him down. And while John had been in like
• 17:49
  little kid fights, this was different.
• 17:52
  This was like a real hit so he was not prepared for that.
• 17:57
  And then the older board actually went to stomp on his
• 18:00
  privates but John moved and ended up.
• 18:03
  Like like violent like leaving a major bruise on his thigh like
• 18:09
  his pants. Ripped, the boys pants.
• 18:12
  John's friend and the younger brother to this awful, older
• 18:16
  kid, tried to run and up the steps back into the house and
• 18:24
  the teenager grabbed him by his legs.
• 18:26
  And that little boy, hit his face on the concrete steps.
• 18:29
  So he is completely knocked out that teenager tossed.
• 18:34
  His younger brother in the corner and stunned.
• 18:37
  John absolutely tries to escape the way they came into the
• 18:39
  basement through like the ground floor door. or the older
• 18:43
  teenager just kind of picked him up even though he was like
• 18:46
  yelling and screaming and walked him back inside, He proceeded to
• 18:52
  hit John again, and when John woke up, he was naked and tied
• 18:56
  onto a fold-out couch. It was pretty terrible assault.
• 19:04
  Definitely, John said that he kind of disassociated during the
• 19:09
  first part of the attack just was being beat and called names
• 19:12
  and stuff. But he was well aware when the
• 19:16
  sexual assault happened and then the worst part about it was that
• 19:22
  he left and got some of his friends and came back with three
• 19:26
  more other teenagers who also sexually assaulted my God.
• 19:32
  Then they kind of untied. Em and let him redress himself,
• 19:36
  covered in blood and other gross things.
• 19:40
  He's an hour late getting home and his mother was like super
• 19:43
  upset. She said the dinner had spoiled.
• 19:46
  And so she said I'm the bed without food and John went
• 19:48
  upstairs, kind of feeling nothing.
• 19:51
  The thing that made his mom. The most mad though, wasn't that
• 19:53
  he missed dinner, was that? He didn't tell her where he'd
• 19:56
  been and she was just like, where were you, what happened?
• 20:01
  And he was just silent. Upstairs in his room though.
• 20:05
  He didn't know how to tell his mom where he'd been or what
• 20:07
  happened who was going to believe?
• 20:09
  This one little eight-year-old boy versus for older teenagers
• 20:13
  from from that point forward, John change at first.
• 20:16
  His mom thought that he was upset because he was grounded
• 20:19
  but when his punishment was over he didn't go back outside
• 20:23
  anymore. That was because even though the
• 20:28
  town wasn't that small, it seemed like John couldn't get
• 20:32
  away from His rapists. So he just stayed inside the
• 20:38
  spark of fun and popularity, really disappeared.
• 20:42
  If you talk to him, he responded but it was a little Halo.
• 20:46
  When he went back to school, the older boys had kind of poisoned
• 20:48
  a lot of the younger kids in all of a sudden, people were
• 20:52
  bullying him. The younger kids didn't know
• 20:55
  what happened, but they had seen the older boys.
• 20:57
  Pulling John. So, they were just kind of
• 20:58
  following suit. This one on for about a year and
• 21:05
  one of the older teen boys, stopped him one day outside of
• 21:08
  school and threatened to rape him.
• 21:10
  Again, if he told anyone like he said to John, I'll come to your
• 21:15
  house and I'll do it every week. If you tell anybody, boy hit him
• 21:19
  in the face and just like kind of demanded a response and nine
• 21:22
  year old John just kind of stared as rapists and and
• 21:25
  growled I hear you and it surprised both of them.
• 21:31
  There was no fear in this little kids face, just loathing and
• 21:36
  hate one by one. All four of the rapist did stop
• 21:42
  and threaten him. But as far as John was
• 21:44
  concerned, he said that the worst thing in the world had
• 21:47
  been already been done to him so he wasn't scared of them.
• 21:50
  He just wanted to hurt them right started with however,
• 21:55
  burning ants nests and throwing rocks at neighbors cats and then
• 22:00
  finding animals, Is that weren't smart enough to be scared of him
• 22:03
  and he would capture them and break their necks imagining that
• 22:07
  he was breaking the bones of the teenagers who hurt him.
• 22:11
  His grades tanked within three years, he was feeling every
• 22:14
  class except for chemistry. He really liked chemistry and he
• 22:18
  wanted to learn how to mix things to make late, lethal
• 22:21
  combinations. He started getting into fights
• 22:23
  with literally everyone even his teachers.
• 22:26
  When people tried to push him to do anything, he responded with
• 22:28
  an intense aggression. In John's head, he felt like he
• 22:33
  had done everything that he was supposed to do, all the stuff
• 22:37
  that is mom and dad wanted him to be.
• 22:40
  And that had made him weak and vulnerable, and he was never
• 22:42
  going to let that happen again. Now that of course build into
• 22:46
  his home life and his parents couldn't control him.
• 22:48
  He was only going to follow whatever he wanted.
• 22:50
  And he started skipping school staying out at night, he missed
• 22:53
  dinner. Sometimes he didn't come home at
• 22:55
  all. His parents were like, are you
• 22:56
  drinking? Are you doing drugs?
• 22:58
  And he wasn't because he would never risk being under the
• 23:02
  influence and being vulnerable. It's really interesting that the
• 23:08
  John thought that isolated himself will protect him.
• 23:10
  But in fact, it did make him very vulnerable to being
• 23:13
  manipulated as John had created this little bubble.
• 23:17
  He lived in and he was really kind of desperate for someone
• 23:22
  older to be, kind to him, which is when he met Betty man in his
• 23:30
  30s they met just after John turned 13.
• 23:33
  Oh, it's dark one night. Yeah, that's a good job was.
• 23:37
  Yeah, it's mighty is this will not be a positive relationship.
• 23:42
  Hello. So one night it's like the
• 23:47
  middle of night and John's walking around a park not far
• 23:50
  from his home and Benny sees him and it's just like hey you want
• 23:54
  to avoid the parking lot. There's a lot of gay guys around
• 23:57
  this area. You know looking for people and
• 24:00
  Betty was like listen they'll try and rape a cute little thing
• 24:04
  like you and Benny was definitely trying to steer him,
• 24:07
  but John just responded. Let them try, I'll fucking kill
• 24:11
  them. Which Benny was like, oh wait,
• 24:16
  this kids. Cool.
• 24:20
  Betty was a white supremacist and he was covered in Neo Nazi
• 24:22
  tattoos and he believed gay. People were the worst people of
• 24:25
  all people. So that became the Friendship
• 24:29
  bond between the two of them because as far as John was
• 24:32
  concerned, his rapists Were Gay and pedophiles so Benny and John
• 24:39
  want me to be around town smoke. Some cigarettes Trash, Talk gay
• 24:41
  people, like I said, he didn't see the difference between the
• 24:44
  random gay guys in the park and those teens who assaulted him
• 24:47
  five years before and then it made it even worse some of the
• 24:51
  men in the park would hit on him.
• 24:53
  Knowing he was a team and that just further solidify The
• 24:57
  ideology that these men were just like his rapist.
• 25:02
  So they kind of created a sort of lure, they use John as bait.
• 25:08
  They would lure a gay man to a remote alley, and then beat the
• 25:10
  absolute crap out of him. From 13 to 15 years old.
• 25:17
  John started focusing on gaining muscles.
• 25:19
  Pretty much his best. You classes were Jim and
• 25:21
  chemistry. He agreed to play sports, so he
• 25:23
  could use the gym. And his teachers were like, is
• 25:26
  he, is he making a turn for the better?
• 25:28
  Is he trying to be a better student?
• 25:30
  They didn't realize that what he was actually doing was trying to
• 25:34
  make himself stronger so he could beat him or gay people.
• 25:38
  In a weird sort of awful way. As he got taller and more
• 25:43
  muscular, the men in the park were less interested in him.
• 25:48
  Hmm, and so, because he looks more of a listen, I it's weird
• 25:55
  that we've had two cases back-to-back.
• 25:57
  I did not know, I knew about this case, and I knew that I
• 26:02
  didn't know that John had this history until I dug into it,
• 26:05
  right? So inadvertently, we came I came
• 26:08
  across two killers who have skewed perceptions of
• 26:12
  homosexuality and it affected their life.
• 26:17
  Goodness. Okay.
• 26:19
  Well John begins. Developing his interpersonal
• 26:23
  skills. He becomes downright charming
• 26:27
  and charismatic. See, Benny could never pretend
• 26:31
  long enough to rope in one of the poufs, as he called the game
• 26:34
  and in town John however, became a very talented liar.
• 26:39
  It was almost like he could turn his feelings off or on and an
• 26:42
  instant, ABS one for a while Benny and John Rabe the gay men
• 26:48
  they'd be tan and it was a good con they made lots of money.
• 26:52
  John was actually kind of bothered by the fact that men
• 26:55
  were so attracted to him and he found the idea of a man.
• 26:59
  An to touch him to be revolting, which is not surprising from
• 27:02
  someone experiencing an assault at a young age.
• 27:04
  I mean, I'd be bothered if, if I was at that age and then we're
• 27:10
  hitting on me as well. Not gonna lie.
• 27:12
  Oh, yeah. But what he decided to look into
• 27:16
  was, he was just, like, do girls like me, too.
• 27:23
  And so at about 15, he kind of reached out to his friends from
• 27:27
  school. And the thing was, he had
• 27:30
  isolated himself. They were like totally open to
• 27:33
  being friends with him. And so he started hanging out
• 27:36
  with his friends, going to parties, the girls at school
• 27:39
  were, like, he's fit. And we're very interested.
• 27:45
  He did do some normal teen stuff, you know, have some beer,
• 27:49
  smoke a little bit, hang out with in a month.
• 27:53
  John had a girl who was willing to sleep with him.
• 27:58
  He enjoyed the moment, but like it was really him trying to see
• 28:02
  if he could do it, because he was afraid that he was gay.
• 28:07
  Because of what happened to Henry.
• 28:10
  He really didn't care about the girl at all and virtually
• 28:14
  ignored her afterward. Oh no.
• 28:17
  She thought she saw him out after his 16th birthday and I
• 28:21
  was about 4 months later and she was very pregnant.
• 28:24
  Oh yep. John had already quit school and
• 28:28
  he was looking for a job and he was just like, I mean, if you
• 28:32
  want me to, I'll marry you and she was like, oh no.
• 28:38
  She was fine being a single mom but she wanted money for the
• 28:40
  baby. So because John had all this
• 28:46
  beat up, gay people money. She assumed that his family was
• 28:50
  wealthy because he always had this money to spend.
• 28:54
  She was very surprised to learn that his family were just like
• 28:56
  basic working people. He told her that she and the
• 29:02
  baby would never suffer. He took the first job he could
• 29:05
  to get so you could pay child support and that was at the
• 29:07
  local crematorium. It was virtually a job that
• 29:10
  nobody in town wanted John was pretty fine with the day-to-day
• 29:14
  operations of preparing remains for cremation and he was really
• 29:17
  strong, big strong enough that he could pick up a Coffin by
• 29:20
  himself and his Bosses were like he seems like a trustworthy man
• 29:28
  young man. So they would let him prepare
• 29:30
  the bodies by himself and that's when he started stealing the
• 29:32
  gold fillings in people's mouths when nobody was looking for.
• 29:36
  So he could sell the gold. His boss is definitely thought
• 29:41
  he was doing something illegal but there was never enough
• 29:44
  evidence and they needed him since a most of the people who
• 29:47
  worked on staff were older people and he could lift the
• 29:50
  bodies like by himself, right? In the span of about a year,
• 29:55
  John becomes a father moves out into his own apartment with some
• 29:58
  of his former classmates finds a good job and still has time to
• 30:01
  arrest an abuse gay men in his spare time.
• 30:05
  To be fair though it was much less often Benny had stopped
• 30:08
  reaching out as much. He he said that he just lost the
• 30:12
  fire and being a Neo-Nazi homophobe.
• 30:15
  It just takes a lot out of it. Does it down?
• 30:20
  Occasionally John would show up. At Benny's house, you know, drag
• 30:24
  him out for old time's sakes. It was a lie, though.
• 30:27
  He hadn't lost the fire. The fact was that he was sick
• 30:30
  and he didn't want to spend the last years of his life being a
• 30:33
  hateful piece of crap. Oh okay.
• 30:35
  I can understand that he had throat cancer and eventually he
• 30:40
  did tell John John was a loyal friend.
• 30:43
  The only friend who visited him in the hospital even though he
• 30:46
  hated hospitals and then one day Benny just never woke up again.
• 30:52
  No. John wasn't there to see The Old
• 30:55
  Man Died. He went to Benny's apartment to
• 30:58
  pick up all of the literature that Benny had, that might make
• 31:03
  him look bad. He took it to his apartment and
• 31:08
  he left out the Tamer propaganda, so that his
• 31:11
  roommates could see it, but that he hid the stuff that was really
• 31:14
  bad. You know, this is the equivalent
• 31:18
  of make sure you clear my browser history.
• 31:20
  All right, all right. Jonathan tried to live a normal
• 31:26
  life but he was fixated on the subject of pedophiles.
• 31:32
  Like his roommate said that he was obsessed.
• 31:36
  To the point where it got to the point where like what they'd be
• 31:40
  drinking and he'd be like, pedophiles everybody be like?
• 31:43
  No, stop. Like they were just all yell at
• 31:46
  him to stop talking. It's like, it's like when I go
• 31:49
  out drinking I'm like Pokemon. I'm like, no.
• 31:56
  Gotcha. But is his group of friends
• 31:59
  drank? They spent nights like young
• 32:00
  people do, and then the mother of his child showed up with his
• 32:04
  two-year-old daughter. Sorry, two-year-old son.
• 32:08
  I don't know why I wrote my notes.
• 32:15
  Now his ex I won't say x. His former one night stand would
• 32:20
  stop by and frequently to pick up money and to let him see a
• 32:24
  little boy. But this meeting was different.
• 32:27
  She brought the boy so that John could say goodbye because they
• 32:30
  were leaving and moving to London.
• 32:35
  Oh yeah, he was as big upset with between this and that
• 32:40
  Danny's death. He went into a, it was a total
• 32:43
  downward spiral quits his job at the crematorium and he's just at
• 32:47
  home and he's depressed, and he's angry.
• 32:50
  And then one of his friends Kenny read.
• 32:51
  Is this like, what if we just go somewhere else?
• 32:55
  And he was like yes let's do that.
• 32:58
  So they make a plan and sell off all their stuff by a crappy car
• 33:02
  and they're just going to drive to the West Coast driving to the
• 33:06
  West Coast of Australia from there on the east coast is like
• 33:10
  me saying, all right? Brian, we're gonna drive to
• 33:13
  California, so I thought, yeah, it's probably far as hell.
• 33:17
  It's really far and they did not have that much money.
• 33:23
  In fact, the road trip did not go Oh, very well at all.
• 33:27
  Just before John left. He did visit his parents told
• 33:30
  him. He was leaving.
• 33:31
  He give him a call. When he got wherever he was
• 33:32
  going note, I have not mentioned his parents name.
• 33:35
  I think, right? I wonder why they don't want to
• 33:39
  be. They don't, they don't want to
• 33:41
  be a part of the story. Six different books.
• 33:46
  Not a one time. Was this?
• 33:48
  This is these people named, you know, they really sound.
• 33:51
  Like, stay went, probably to Great pains.
• 33:53
  They probably changed their names.
• 33:56
  A lot of it happens a lot, but you do a road trip is not go.
• 33:59
  Well, none of the rooms were particularly experienced
• 34:02
  drivers. The path to get out.
• 34:04
  West is in some places, very rugged.
• 34:09
  They ended up looping around looping around ultimately, they
• 34:14
  ran a gas money, and they end up pushing their car into the city
• 34:18
  of Adelaide now. So I've sent you In our chat,
• 34:24
  Brian a screenshot. That is the bizarre path that
• 34:30
  these kids took, they didn't go west really, they went mostly
• 34:35
  South. What the heck about 2,000
• 34:39
  kilometers from Anala to Adelaide?
• 34:42
  It's like, as far as the rut, like, there's a whole two-thirds
• 34:47
  of the country left, they did not get anywhere near.
• 34:50
  They said they wanted to, that's like is driving.
• 34:53
  That's, that's like a, that's a route to our West Virginia.
• 34:56
  If you're from, where were ya, Maybe it's not that.
• 35:00
  I mean I would say that that looks like from where we are
• 35:04
  right now, we went South towards Florida and then made an Abrupt
• 35:08
  turn left Kentucky and now we're in like Kentucky or Mississippi
• 35:13
  like completely off and we're like we went West I mean sorta
• 35:18
  you meant Midwest. Thing is though a delay was a
• 35:24
  much bigger Community than the 15,000 people in Enola.
• 35:29
  Adelaide actually, almost had a million citizens in 1984.
• 35:32
  This was what they were dreaming of, they just didn't realize
• 35:35
  that it was so close. Most of him and his friends had
• 35:40
  jobs within the first 24 hours. A lot of the guys are working in
• 35:43
  a bar, the girls were out of work.
• 35:45
  That shops John actually didn't find a job right away.
• 35:48
  He walked the city. The first night looking for
• 35:51
  signs of gay men. He like notice their Hangouts
• 35:54
  and spots and then he realized, holy crap.
• 35:57
  This isn't like an all at all here.
• 35:59
  Gay men, just kind of walk around like it's normal.
• 36:02
  They were holding hands. It was definitely a bit of a
• 36:04
  culture shock. Don decided that if he was going
• 36:09
  to continue being a violent homophobe, he was going to have
• 36:13
  to change it up. The police allowed this which
• 36:17
  meant they were in on it and he wouldn't just be walking around
• 36:20
  the park. The other thing was, he does
• 36:22
  friends may have traveled together but they weren't all
• 36:24
  living together. And generally what would happen
• 36:26
  in this situation, was that someone would get a job, they
• 36:30
  would get a contract and then you could take that contract to
• 36:34
  a landlord and be like, look, here's proof that I'm working,
• 36:37
  but I don't have the money now and that was good enough to get
• 36:41
  you into a place. Back then really know three
• 36:45
  months rent to move in. That's interesting.
• 36:49
  So most of his friends had done that and John had spent his time
• 36:55
  prospecting, he didn't want the high-paying labor jobs or the
• 36:59
  bartender gigs and then walking down the street.
• 37:02
  The following morning, he found it.
• 37:05
  An abattoir AKA a slaughterhouse and almost called to him the
• 37:11
  blood and the screams. Is of the animals.
• 37:14
  In fact, most of the livestock in Southern Australia passed
• 37:17
  through a delayed. So there were a lot of
• 37:20
  slaughterhouses and there was a lot of work.
• 37:23
  John began working for South Australia, meet Corporation,
• 37:25
  almost immediately. And his like first hour, he was
• 37:29
  there, he impressed his bosses with a very natural Talent with
• 37:34
  a knife. They said that he moved like a
• 37:37
  chef no wasted motion, very efficient.
• 37:40
  And so, they decided to put him on a production.
• 37:43
  Mind to test him that day. There were people.
• 37:48
  The production line is where the first kill happens.
• 37:54
  When the animals come in and they're still alive.
• 37:56
  Don't you went first? Okay, do not worry about people
• 38:01
  murder yet. Okay, but like, this was where
• 38:04
  like the solder house the bosses would put you to see if you
• 38:07
  could handle it. He cut the first throat of a
• 38:12
  living animal. Animal, without even flinching
• 38:14
  manager, were like pet. We found a good one.
• 38:19
  What is hiring papers in hand? He meets up with his friend,
• 38:21
  Kevin read and Kevin's girlfriend, their jobs didn't
• 38:23
  really pay as well as John's. And so, they were like, listen,
• 38:27
  we can get a place together and you can kind of sleep here, too,
• 38:30
  and it'll help you afford this place that we want.
• 38:33
  So, John didn't really care. He was like, I'll sleep on the
• 38:35
  couch. I don't care with three rents,
• 38:38
  they had more than enough money for the one bedroom and a whole
• 38:42
  lot of income for booze and fun. John used his extra money to
• 38:47
  collect weapons. Neo-Nazi magazines and his
• 38:51
  friends were like, Ah, that's the John.
• 38:52
  We remember, he actually got into metalworking and started
• 38:56
  taking classes at a local college and he bought lots of
• 38:59
  tools for his classes. Kevin, and his girlfriend, use
• 39:02
  their money to begin nesting. They got a puppy and they bought
• 39:06
  pillows and cute things. Additionally enough, the thrill
• 39:12
  of killing animals, sort of dampened.
• 39:15
  After working at The Slaughterhouse, he didn't really
• 39:17
  have a He didn't get the throw any more.
• 39:21
  He was feeling restless those because you were doing, yes, a
• 39:24
  job now. So obviously, he's going to be
• 39:26
  any fun anymore, his work friends, loved him and his
• 39:31
  bosses gave him raises and it just didn't fill the void for a
• 39:35
  bit. He kind of came to terms with
• 39:36
  the fact that maybe he just wasn't somebody who got to be
• 39:39
  feel satisfied in life. Also working at The
• 39:43
  Slaughterhouse, he didn't have a chance to meet a lot of girls
• 39:45
  because everybody thought that job was pretty awful.
• 39:50
  But while he was his college classes, one day, he met a girl
• 39:53
  Veronica trip and she got to see John at his best.
• 39:57
  He attentive a good student kind to his classmates really
• 40:01
  dedicated to learning and his teachers were totally like in
• 40:06
  love with him because he didn't just want to know how to use the
• 40:09
  blowtorch. He wanted to know how it worked.
• 40:12
  And teachers, always loved students, who take extra
• 40:15
  interest in the class true, his class, his classmates were kind
• 40:19
  of lackluster. Early preparing for like, an
• 40:21
  entry-level job. But John was studying so hard.
• 40:24
  It was it was like he knew that he could do something really
• 40:27
  great with this, if he just mastered it.
• 40:31
  Veronica was drawn to him. And he turned that same kind of
• 40:37
  focus that he had on class on to her.
• 40:42
  And when someone showers you with that kind of attention,
• 40:46
  It's Kind of Wonderful. Today, we might talk about like,
• 40:50
  love-bombing and being worried about it.
• 40:52
  But this was like a fire between the two of them, they got
• 40:56
  married a couple months later, their reception was at a couple
• 40:59
  of bars battle made. And most of the people there
• 41:03
  were people who were As part of like they just for people who
• 41:06
  like flocked to John, because he was just this intense man.
• 41:12
  Veronica was so into him. As she didn't even realize that
• 41:15
  her first night being married, she was gonna be sleeping.
• 41:17
  On the couch problem. Was one bedroom is much too
• 41:23
  small for two couples and John didn't want to leave his friends
• 41:26
  without rent money, but he was definitely annoyed that Kevin
• 41:28
  wasn't going to move to a bigger space.
• 41:33
  He also kind of came and it also was a weird thing because his
• 41:35
  work shift changed and he was working nights and everybody
• 41:39
  else in the house work during the day.
• 41:41
  And so he was always coming home to an empty house.
• 41:44
  He never got time to see Veronica.
• 41:46
  And one time when he was at home trigger warning, the dog dies
• 41:52
  for folks who are worried about those kind of triggers.
• 41:57
  John used his blowtorch On Kevin's daunted.
• 42:04
  Yes, he did for fun and then he buried it before they got home
• 42:10
  and then he told them that there had been an accident while he
• 42:13
  was welding. Instead of denying it, he just
• 42:17
  kind of sat there silently as Kevin's girlfriend lost her
• 42:22
  mind, she was she was yelling at him, accusing him crying and his
• 42:28
  friends had never really seen John like sit there quiet.
• 42:32
  So they were like oh this obviously affected him really
• 42:36
  bad and they eventually were like, you know, he would never
• 42:40
  just kill an animal because it didn't like him because that dog
• 42:44
  never liked him. This event.
• 42:47
  However, ruined their little family that they've been
• 42:49
  building even after Kevin's girlfriend calm down and
• 42:52
  Veronica and John moved to a suburb of Adelaide called
• 42:55
  Salisbury North. It's a they bought a big
• 42:57
  beautiful Bungalow but it was much lower class than Adelaide.
• 43:02
  There was less of a community in this place and most people were
• 43:07
  just barely scraping by the area is plagued with drugs crime
• 43:11
  homelessness illness and John loved it.
• 43:18
  So we'll change gears and we'll talk about our next member
• 43:25
  Robert Jill. Wagner born November 28, 1971,
• 43:31
  Robert had a pretty awful childhood marred.
• 43:33
  With moments of his father's extreme abuse.
• 43:36
  He was covered in scars so it is no surprise that when Robert was
• 43:40
  13 year old and he met a older queer man.
• 43:46
  He was the Perfect victim to be groomed that older, man was
• 43:52
  Berry Lane berry lived on Bingham Road and he had just
• 43:56
  served a prison sentence for raping two. 12 year, old boys,
• 44:00
  when he meets Robert, my God It was about 6 foot tall, and he
• 44:06
  often wore women's clothes, and sometimes I buy the name.
• 44:08
  Vanessa, he described himself as a transvestite.
• 44:12
  And so that is what I will do. Barry was not a well-liked
• 44:17
  person and Roberts parents didn't like the two of them
• 44:20
  spending time together. The relationship by today's
• 44:23
  standard would be absolutely statutory rape Robert kept
• 44:27
  running away from home to be with Barry.
• 44:29
  It was a weird dynamic because the the Wagner's were trying to
• 44:32
  rein their son in Um, what Robert had kind of fun, Ally
• 44:38
  Roberts, parents were worried that if they reported Barry, he
• 44:41
  might run away with their son. At least, if they allowed it,
• 44:44
  they knew where to find him, he was a phone call away.
• 44:49
  Very cooked for him, and in some ways cared for him.
• 44:52
  In the ways of his parents, didn't eventually the Wagner's
• 44:55
  gave up. Robert Asian to adulthood with
• 44:59
  his wife. Vanessa and no one in town
• 45:03
  really bothered to think about it.
• 45:04
  After Robert was 18, Passes. Yeah.
• 45:11
  Absolutely. It's 1991 and 24 year-old John
• 45:15
  and that 20 year old. Robert neat just as John moves
• 45:20
  into Salisbury Barry was surprised because it was kind of
• 45:26
  like John was well known as being an anti-gay Nazi, but John
• 45:30
  and Robert became friends right away.
• 45:34
  Robert saw and John, somebody who'd made it through terrible
• 45:37
  things. And emerge with the strength
• 45:38
  that he just didn't have John was funny, he was bubbly.
• 45:43
  He was like a almost a brotherly kind of friendship.
• 45:46
  Their John's wife Veronica was pretty used to this this is this
• 45:51
  was what would happen. People would meet John and they
• 45:55
  were just kind of fall for him but in like a friend way.
• 45:58
  Hmm. John invited, Robert and Vanessa
• 46:02
  to the house once he and Veronica got settled and the
• 46:04
  house was already Veronica was more than it was.
• 46:09
  Very worried when Robert should up with a beer and this very
• 46:12
  obviously cross-dressing Vanessa arrived John ignored.
• 46:17
  The fact that Vanessa was a 40 year old man who is crass and
• 46:21
  rather unpleasant and instead focused his attention on Robert,
• 46:25
  the two bonded over the fact that they were abused as
• 46:27
  children. When Robert mentioned that he'd
• 46:30
  been 13 when he and bearing that Veronica John's wife was like
• 46:38
  shocked and appalled for John though it's little fight.
• 46:42
  Exactly what he guessed. He didn't drop his cover though
• 46:47
  and Veronica. Was frankly surprised that John
• 46:49
  wasn't going off on one of his pedophile tangents and instead
• 46:53
  was playing a good host. When this man just admitted to
• 46:56
  grooming his fiancee Like everybody knew John hates
• 47:01
  pedophiles more than anybody else.
• 47:02
  But when Robert and Vanessa left arm and our John, looked at him
• 47:06
  and just said, he'll get his, don't you worry?
• 47:12
  But December of 1991, the Bunting family is fully settled
• 47:15
  in. Robert has a new best friend.
• 47:17
  John's friend Circle was pretty much everyone who had fallen
• 47:20
  through the cracks and life or people with very extreme
• 47:23
  political views. His own little crew who had been
• 47:26
  abandoned and hurt by Society. The closer that Robert got to
• 47:31
  John though, the more strain, the relationship with Barry
• 47:33
  became Barry wouldn't even like, Barry was like, that kind of
• 47:38
  partner who is jealous kind of or nervous or insecure and won't
• 47:43
  let you go anywhere without them.
• 47:45
  So whenever Robert went to John's house to hang out with
• 47:47
  him, Barry had to come to and his plan was to be as awful as
• 47:51
  possible whenever he was around, John to try and get him to snap.
• 47:57
  So that Barry could be like, listen, see your friends.
• 48:00
  A horrible guy should like stop hanging out with them. the
• 48:04
  problem was John was very controlled and Frankly Barry was
• 48:10
  on the list of people, he wanted to take care of, but he had his
• 48:13
  eyes on someone else. The man who would become his
• 48:16
  first victim Clinton, Tracy's, Clinton was kind of caught up in
• 48:19
  the era of John and so he didn't notice things changing.
• 48:25
  Originally when John would go on these anti pedophile ranty just
• 48:28
  like get up and leave like it started innocuous.
• 48:33
  John would pick on Clinton. He called him happy pants and it
• 48:36
  didn't really mean anything. But you know when someone's
• 48:39
  trying to insult you. Yeah and then like when Quentin
• 48:43
  would leave and the he was around all the other people John
• 48:46
  would like mimic Clinton and like Bend his wrist and of
• 48:49
  course all the other lackeys just laughed.
• 48:56
  As John start focusing more on his desire to kill.
• 48:59
  He got less interested in the slaughterhouse.
• 49:02
  He went from being the best employee to being the worst
• 49:04
  name. Very short time.
• 49:06
  Some of it had to do with being surrounded by people who were
• 49:09
  like Bottom Feeders in the community.
• 49:10
  But I think the real change had to do with the fact that he now
• 49:14
  had new plans and North Salisbury.
• 49:16
  John thought that this was an opportunity to indulge in what
• 49:21
  he really wanted to do. Veronica was worried because we
• 49:26
  had bills to pay and he quit his job.
• 49:29
  She complained more and she just felt more distant from her
• 49:32
  husband, John Clinton, Robert and Barry would just sit around
• 49:37
  the house. All day watching TV while she
• 49:40
  worked now. John hadn't forgotten about bury
• 49:43
  the child molester, but he knew that he couldn't do anything to
• 49:46
  bury as long as Robert was still dating him.
• 49:52
  August of 1992 would be around the time that John realized.
• 49:59
  His own Darkness. I need to hurt to feel better
• 50:06
  about what happened to me. Killing animals doesn't do fix
• 50:10
  it anymore. So he kept bullying Clinton and
• 50:14
  one day, Clinton tried to like laugh it off and John responded.
• 50:19
  You think this is funny to you. You think it's funny to touch
• 50:21
  little kids that can't protect themselves?
• 50:24
  Clinton was super thrown off as would any reasonable person
• 50:27
  would be if someone just toss this accusation at you, right?
• 50:31
  Yeah. We talking about, dude, so
• 50:34
  Clinton was like, fuck off and John got up and went outside and
• 50:37
  grabbed a shovel. And before Clinton knew what was
• 50:39
  happening, John swung, the shovel at the back of his head.
• 50:43
  Clinton landed face it. On the carpet blood dripping,
• 50:47
  from a fractured skull. He looked up at Barry and was
• 50:50
  just like, fuck you and then John said, fuck you.
• 50:54
  And hit him again, banging his face so hard into the floor,
• 50:59
  that it broke his teeth. Robert started screaming and
• 51:04
  freaking out, but Barry was like, no, no, no.
• 51:07
  You need to stay cool because he buries an ex-con, and he knew
• 51:10
  that bare minimum. If this came out, both Berry and
• 51:13
  John are going to jail and he thought that Robert just needed
• 51:17
  protection. So, Johnson Robert to get the
• 51:21
  tools to keep them preoccupied, they put the body in the back of
• 51:24
  a pickup truck drove on a one North out of town.
• 51:30
  They got to lower light. Township dug a shallow, grave
• 51:33
  drop Clinton's remains in the hole and no one smoke Robert
• 51:37
  rationalized that John must have learned something about Clinton
• 51:40
  to make these accusations. No normal.
• 51:43
  Person will kill somebody just because they were born.
• 51:50
  That was August, 31st 1992 would be almost a year or two years
• 51:55
  before his body would be found on August 16th 1994.
• 51:59
  After this Berry changed his whole Mo in terms of trying to
• 52:04
  make John mad. Good job, really rants.
• 52:12
  They were accusations and he knew that John knew something
• 52:15
  about him and he had every reason to be afraid, he stopped
• 52:20
  going to John's house with Robert and that was really all
• 52:23
  they needed eventually the two of them broke up.
• 52:27
  As for August 31st, 1980 to Veronica, comes home to an empty
• 52:30
  house with her rug gone and John doesn't come back until about
• 52:33
  3:00 a.m. he smelled like beer and she wasn't even going to
• 52:36
  bother asking where he went Veronica was in a bad place.
• 52:40
  At this time they were growing apart.
• 52:44
  He wouldn't even answer her. If she asked him questions every
• 52:47
  time she thought about leaving it was like he sensed it and
• 52:50
  there he was charismatic and funny and reminding her why she
• 52:53
  liked him in the first place. They had virtually no sex life.
• 52:56
  Life. And John, didn't push her or
• 52:58
  bother her about it? He assumed that he would just go
• 53:01
  somewhere else. And so, he started hooking up
• 53:04
  with a woman in the neighborhood named Suzanne Allen.
• 53:07
  It wasn't really a proper Affair, it was just sex.
• 53:11
  And when he would go visit her, he tell Veronica, he was
• 53:13
  visiting his friend Ray, who lives in a shed, and he lived in
• 53:17
  an RV in behind, Susan's house. This one on for years.
• 53:24
  Also around this time, he meets Elizabeth Harvey and when he
• 53:30
  meets Elizabeth Harvey, he treats her like a queen almost
• 53:33
  the extreme opposite of how he was treating Suzanne.
• 53:36
  Of course just like Veronica was, love bombs.
• 53:39
  Elizabeth is swept up in all the attention but she was worried
• 53:43
  that he would go back to his wife and she didn't want to
• 53:46
  introduce him to her son and she was like he's gonna This will
• 53:51
  make him run away the exact opposite happened.
• 53:56
  Elizabeth Harvey. Son is James Moustakas.
• 54:01
  If you remember James is one of the four Killers I listed at the
• 54:05
  beginning of the episode. Actually my God, they called him
• 54:11
  Jamie. And when John met Jamie, he,
• 54:14
  they were drawn together because just like both John and Robert.
• 54:18
  Jamie had been abused to Jamie was born, James spiridonova.
• 54:23
  Last was takas On December 24th 1979.
• 54:28
  Jamie very similar to Robert had been abused when he was a young
• 54:33
  boy. This was by both his father and
• 54:35
  step brother John immediately saw Jamie as the kid.
• 54:40
  He was before he had taken control of his life and began
• 54:44
  hurting the people who heard him and he felt this deep need to
• 54:47
  make Jamie just like him. Within a year, he asked
• 54:52
  Elizabeth to marry him. He did not inform Veronica of
• 54:55
  this at all Veronica. Realized he was having an
• 55:00
  affair, but she had not to bring it up.
• 55:02
  And then one day, Elizabeth and just shows up with a moving van
• 55:10
  Wie after house. Yep, this lovely Dan with his
• 55:15
  fiancee andronica blamed herself.
• 55:18
  She was the one who stopped initiating.
• 55:20
  Sex. So he'd gone to somebody else.
• 55:22
  John acted. Like nothing changed Veronica.
• 55:27
  Tried to be okay with this but she couldn't she still very much
• 55:30
  love John but she couldn't handle being treated like this.
• 55:33
  So she started staying with her friends and family.
• 55:35
  First it was for a couple days then weeks and months after
• 55:37
  about a year of Ronica stopped coming home at all.
• 55:41
  This was great for John. Elizabeth had been a really
• 55:44
  terrible abusive relationship beforehand.
• 55:46
  So when she got into relationship with John and this
• 55:52
  is how he said it, okay, you ready?
• 55:54
  She knew just how bad things could be.
• 55:59
  That's not a good thing. No, he used this to his
• 56:02
  advantage and urge her to be more submissive and more
• 56:05
  subservient and to do anything that would make him happy.
• 56:10
  Oh yeah, he's a whole scale predator on multiple levels.
• 56:16
  It's 1995, it's a great year for John, then Jamie moves in after
• 56:23
  another fight with his father. And that was when John began the
• 56:27
  indoctrination. It was only two years since they
• 56:31
  first met and Jamie just visited but Jamie loved John like the
• 56:34
  dad. He never had this was like the
• 56:37
  friendship he had with Robert way more intense John showed
• 56:41
  Jamie how great it felt to hunt and kill animals.
• 56:45
  He skinned a cat alive in front of Jamie the next time Jamie
• 56:50
  joined in just 22 to make his father figure happy.
• 56:55
  Now by this time quitting trustees have been found but he
• 56:58
  put in that grave for two. Ears and his remains were almost
• 57:00
  skeletonized. The police had no leads, and
• 57:04
  they had done for the previous eight months.
• 57:06
  It took them so long to identify him because his face was
• 57:09
  shattered and his he's missing teeth, even when they put
• 57:13
  Clinton's name on the news though.
• 57:15
  No one came, no one said anything.
• 57:17
  He had very few friends and his family didn't even know he was
• 57:19
  missing because he had a falling out with them if that corpse had
• 57:24
  never been found, no one would even known that Clinton was
• 57:26
  dead. Andrew.
• 57:29
  Only though, Clinton have been receiving a benefits checks but
• 57:33
  we would call SSI here in the US and those were piled up in
• 57:36
  Clinton's apartment. It was definitely more common
• 57:39
  for someone to kill someone a collect the checks but that's
• 57:42
  dump the police more, right? It was such it was such a
• 57:46
  conundrum that they put Clinton's case on Australia's
• 57:49
  most wanted the to find the person who killed him and as
• 57:52
  that show airs John leans over and says to Jeanne.
• 57:57
  I did that one. Pat.
• 57:59
  Oh wow. Okay, family concerts quietly
• 58:04
  for a moment. And then Elizabeth says, good on
• 58:07
  you. And so, John takes that just
• 58:10
  goes running, can't have him run around touching kids.
• 58:12
  Can I not? When all it takes is a good
• 58:14
  whack to stop him. The police knew about him and
• 58:16
  they did nothing. Everyone around here, knew what
• 58:18
  he was up to. They all knew and they just let
• 58:20
  it happen. I didn't let it happen.
• 58:22
  I wouldn't ever let somebody hurt kids.
• 58:26
  That that that that was for Jamie.
• 58:29
  Hmm. That was that little dies from
• 58:33
  the show. So Jamie was like, good on you
• 58:36
  John. That was with Johnny to know
• 58:39
  that he was Secure in his home. He just needed some victims to
• 58:42
  Dole out his misplaced righteous Vengeance.
• 58:45
  So John started collecting the names of queer men, living in
• 58:48
  the area. He's still very much connected.
• 58:51
  Homosexually the pedophilia. What you should not do.
• 58:54
  And some days when he was mad, he would call these people on
• 58:58
  these lists, he made and like screaming.
• 59:00
  At them. His next victim ended up being
• 59:04
  Ray Davis. The man Dave, he's the man who
• 59:06
  live behind Susan. Suzanne Alan Ray was 26 at this
• 59:10
  point one day, he heard a loud noise outside of his trailer and
• 59:14
  he rushed out fully naked and Suzanne's.
• 59:17
  Grandkids were their kids were super grossed.
• 59:20
  Out. Their mom was Furious.
• 59:21
  The whole neighborhood was talking about it by the time
• 59:24
  that Berry Lane heard. The story.
• 59:25
  It had changed to the point where it was like, this deeply
• 59:29
  troubled, mentally, disabled, man, tried to force himself on
• 59:32
  Suzanne's grandkids. Ray was already on John's list
• 59:36
  but because he because he was friends with Barry but this
• 59:39
  sealed the deal. John knew that both Barry and
• 59:42
  Suzanne had had sex with array. So he didn't really trust them
• 59:47
  to be honest about Ray. He does seduce Suzanne again and
• 59:54
  believing that once she got some D, she'd be honest during pillow
• 59:57
  talk. Suzanne said that her grandkids
• 1:00:01
  have been propositioned by re and to John that was still
• 1:00:04
  worthy of death. So it's December 1995.
• 1:00:08
  He goes to raise house in the middle of the night, praying
• 1:00:10
  with him. Robert, Jamie and Elizabeth John
• 1:00:13
  and Robert entered, a trailer, pick him up, drag him through
• 1:00:16
  the backyard and down the street and to John's house, they March
• 1:00:19
  him into the bathroom tie, a rope around his neck.
• 1:00:22
  Robert Held it just enough to immobilize him but not kill him.
• 1:00:28
  Beat him with a cricket bat. He hands the bat to Jamie.
• 1:00:33
  Jamie follows suit, Elizabeth kind of inspired by the years of
• 1:00:37
  her at the hands of men like Ray grabs.
• 1:00:40
  One of John's wrenches and begins hitting right to they cut
• 1:00:43
  off some of his toes and torture him for about an hour and then
• 1:00:47
  they hang him in their bathroom. And they dig a grave in their
• 1:00:53
  own backyard and put right inside of it.
• 1:00:56
  John was definitely worried. This was too much for Jamie.
• 1:01:01
  But that was the moment that Jamie let out some of his rage
• 1:01:04
  for what happened to him at someone who the town said was a
• 1:01:08
  pedophile, Elizabeth helped by throwing out raise things in the
• 1:01:12
  morning. Suzanne was pretty happy to see
• 1:01:15
  that the RV was gone. They stripped it painted it and
• 1:01:21
  sold it. And if Suzanne Ever Wanted about
• 1:01:24
  it, she never said anything there.
• 1:01:25
  John So now John has a sturdy crew.
• 1:01:29
  Someone want to fill in the follow him anywhere, right?
• 1:01:32
  Right. Had been the perfect victim in
• 1:01:34
  John's eyes. He was a real predator.
• 1:01:37
  On top of the satisfaction of murder.
• 1:01:40
  John also had some money because they sold the RV.
• 1:01:44
  And raised benefit checks were still being mailed to Suzanne's
• 1:01:46
  house. John pretty much had the same
• 1:01:49
  kind of iron grip over. He had his Suzanne before.
• 1:01:53
  So Unfortunately, Suzanne had experienced a fair share of
• 1:01:58
  abuse by men in the past, and John was just another man who
• 1:02:03
  abused her. We don't know for sure if she
• 1:02:06
  was taking the money from Ray or like if she was in on the fraud,
• 1:02:09
  but we do know that she never told the police.
• 1:02:11
  Anything John would stop by, pick up the checks, cash them in
• 1:02:17
  to raise account and then take the money out with the bank
• 1:02:19
  card. John decided it was at that
• 1:02:24
  moment. He needed to move.
• 1:02:26
  So he got a house in a much more peaceful area, Murray Bridge,
• 1:02:29
  which is about 70 miles, east of Adelaide.
• 1:02:32
  Much bigger house on a much bigger piece of land and there
• 1:02:35
  wasn't a corpse in the yard. Oh my God, oh my God, the new
• 1:02:41
  me, the new owners. Oh yeah, they eventually.
• 1:02:45
  Oh yeah. All of this was really to make
• 1:02:51
  sure they didn't get caught for Ray's death.
• 1:02:53
  Just because he moved to a nicer suburbs.
• 1:02:55
  So didn't mean he spent any less time in Adelaide though he was
• 1:02:58
  stopped by pick up those checks from Suzanne.
• 1:03:00
  Say hi to Robert ledbury Lane know, he was still around. now,
• 1:03:08
  one of the men who was often seen in the company of John was
• 1:03:11
  Mark Hayden, Mark wasn't as tightly.
• 1:03:17
  Well I couldn't acted to John at this point.
• 1:03:20
  I'm and that was the only because after John moved Mark
• 1:03:24
  Fell in Love with the lady named Elizabeth and Elizabeth did not
• 1:03:28
  like John any time at John won anything to do with her
• 1:03:32
  boyfriend. Elizabeth was opposed.
• 1:03:34
  She also wouldn't make fun of him.
• 1:03:37
  It appears at least one woman in North Salisbury was immune to
• 1:03:40
  his charms. Here you go.
• 1:03:43
  Now, John knew he'd lose, Mark, if he went directly at
• 1:03:47
  Elizabeth, so he decided to get close to her via her sister
• 1:03:51
  Jody. And he did this by being
• 1:03:53
  especially kind to Jody. Son, Fred Brooks.
• 1:03:56
  Who was young, disabled. Born disc with a disability?
• 1:04:00
  Yeah. He looked at Elizabeth life and
• 1:04:04
  if there was somebody in her Circle who was a little bit weak
• 1:04:07
  or needy, he filled that void for that person, like kind of
• 1:04:11
  making himself someone that you couldn't untangle from
• 1:04:15
  Elizabeth's, friends and family. Elizabeth is like, since we're
• 1:04:23
  getting married, we should move to a better place and marks like
• 1:04:27
  that makes sense. So they move out of Adelaide.
• 1:04:31
  John is livid. He spent hours ranting and
• 1:04:35
  raving to people, they all hung out in Suzanne's house now
• 1:04:38
  because they had no other house to hang out in the problem was
• 1:04:43
  with hanging out at Suzanne's house was that like their
• 1:04:46
  relationship had never been more than stop by have sex you leave.
• 1:04:51
  So now he was like there all the time and it created, this weird
• 1:04:54
  tension in the relationship. Now what comes next?
• 1:04:57
  We have two different stories. There's a version that they
• 1:05:00
  decided on in court and one that is believed by people who live
• 1:05:03
  there. At the time.
• 1:05:04
  The Salisbury rumor version is that John and Susan had a big
• 1:05:07
  fight. She threatened to turn him into
• 1:05:09
  the police for killing Ray and he killed her in the court
• 1:05:13
  version. John stopped by walked in and
• 1:05:15
  Suzanne was already dead in her bedroom.
• 1:05:17
  She was an older lady died. From natural causes whatever
• 1:05:20
  happened. The following was the same, John
• 1:05:24
  was like, no one needs to know that Suzanne.
• 1:05:26
  Has dead. She's still getting raised
• 1:05:28
  checks. She's getting her own benefits
• 1:05:30
  Jack because she's were tired, and I want all that money.
• 1:05:35
  So, he dismembered Susan in November of 1986 wrapped her in
• 1:05:41
  a plastic bags and waited until night opened up.
• 1:05:45
  Raise grave dropped Suzanne inside.
• 1:05:47
  Oh my God. Suzanne's rent was being paid
• 1:05:50
  for by the government. She had fought with her family,
• 1:05:53
  so much. Nobody liked her.
• 1:05:55
  John just had to make sure She picked up her mail and no one
• 1:05:57
  asked questions. He gained access to her
• 1:06:00
  accounts, through her papers at home, and it was more than
• 1:06:03
  enough money for his family to live on.
• 1:06:06
  And for him to spend frivolously with his friends, who only issue
• 1:06:10
  was that he didn't want the money to go directly to him.
• 1:06:14
  So he decided that Mark Aiden would be a good Patsy for that.
• 1:06:19
  He was like listen you don't have to do anything else, just
• 1:06:22
  let the money come through and then help me with some
• 1:06:25
  purchases. So they bought a couple of
• 1:06:33
  properties. They would buy things that the
• 1:06:37
  group needed some money. Went back to John so that he
• 1:06:40
  could pay, you know, the mortgage.
• 1:06:42
  This is where snow Town comes in.
• 1:06:44
  Now, still town was a very small agricultural community.
• 1:06:47
  That wasn't doing the best financially at the time and you
• 1:06:50
  still get enough, it's better now than it was 20 years ago at
• 1:06:53
  the time. It was becoming a bit of a ghost
• 1:06:55
  town. And there were so few people
• 1:06:56
  there that the bank on Main Street had closed and the locals
• 1:07:00
  had to travel miles to either the city of kadena or Crystal
• 1:07:02
  Brooks, do their banking when Mark and John John saw it
• 1:07:06
  though. They were like, this is a good
• 1:07:08
  building. The rent was way too high for a
• 1:07:11
  town, this small, which is why I had probably closed, but what,
• 1:07:14
  the money from Ryan Suzanne this more than covered it inside.
• 1:07:18
  It was like, the 80s exploded inside this building, but John
• 1:07:21
  didn't really need it for upstairs.
• 1:07:24
  He wanted it for the vaults. A place where he was going to be
• 1:07:29
  able to kill and also dispose of remains because in John's brain.
• 1:07:36
  If there was nobody there was no murder.
• 1:07:40
  I knew it is so terrible. So he buys all these different
• 1:07:45
  acids from different chemical companies across the country, he
• 1:07:48
  gets a different member of his group to do the purchases, they
• 1:07:50
  bring it to the Vault. He brings in these giant plastic
• 1:07:53
  barrels and he pours the acids, the stuff in them and seal them.
• 1:07:58
  There were easily a dozen barrels.
• 1:08:00
  Would they were so big that? He would be able to put more
• 1:08:02
  than one person in them? John was actually so happy with
• 1:08:06
  this plan that he made a mistake.
• 1:08:09
  One day when he was cashing the checks, he actually put his own
• 1:08:12
  name on the back of Suzanne's check and cash it in Murray
• 1:08:15
  Bridge, instead of Adelaide, the police came to his house and
• 1:08:18
  John was like, why are there cops here?
• 1:08:21
  He's about to just like haul off and start murdering them.
• 1:08:23
  And then he like, calm himself down.
• 1:08:25
  He told the police. He's been Francis, whose and for
• 1:08:27
  many years, he helped her with her finances because she's an
• 1:08:30
  old lady. The police didn't check
• 1:08:32
  Suzanne's house, they didn't ask her if she was getting the money
• 1:08:36
  that he was cashing for her. The police were Like this
• 1:08:40
  complaint didn't come from Suzanne.
• 1:08:42
  So obviously, she's fine with it.
• 1:08:44
  What the hell? What?
• 1:08:47
  I'm hold on. I'm surprised even cast.
• 1:08:49
  A check when he signed it. She has to sign it.
• 1:08:52
  The hell. Is that just different
• 1:08:56
  obviously, I'm smarter than y'all.
• 1:08:59
  Yeah, I think they didn't catch that one and they like just
• 1:09:01
  went. Hey, why is your name on the
• 1:09:03
  check? Okay.
• 1:09:08
  So remember that like list of people that he said were pedos
• 1:09:12
  that came to this house to but it got its own room with a board
• 1:09:16
  and names and strings from people to people and
• 1:09:18
  connections. Oh God no he literally made like
• 1:09:21
  a police board but it was like a pedophile board know where they
• 1:09:25
  hang out and all this stuff. Yep.
• 1:09:27
  God. He also harassed these people a
• 1:09:29
  lot more he would call them in the middle of the night just
• 1:09:32
  like scream that they were pedophiles and then he would
• 1:09:35
  take Jamie and Robert they break into the These peoples houses
• 1:09:39
  and then like vandalize them, but the victims have reported it
• 1:09:42
  because they were scared. And like, once the word
• 1:09:45
  pedophile is spray-painted across your house for the
• 1:09:48
  neighborhood to see that's all the community needs to know,
• 1:09:52
  right? That, there's an accusation.
• 1:09:56
  So John asked Barry, if there are any rumors and the gay
• 1:09:59
  community is there anyone, you know, doing something they
• 1:10:01
  shouldn't. So Barry always had information
• 1:10:05
  but Barry was specifically giving him names of people who
• 1:10:07
  made him mad. So, John fixated on Michelle
• 1:10:12
  Gartner born Michael. Michelle was 19 and she actually
• 1:10:15
  dressed and behaved. Like not like Berry like
• 1:10:20
  Michelle was living as like a young woman.
• 1:10:27
  Barry was jealous of her. He viewed Michelle, as like a
• 1:10:30
  younger better-looking version of himself, and it's wild
• 1:10:33
  because Barry's idea of like, he was like, Michelle's gonna see
• 1:10:37
  robber and they're gonna get together, and it was totally
• 1:10:40
  misplaced jealousy. John, had trained, Robert and
• 1:10:44
  Jamie to look at people like Michelle as the same as their
• 1:10:47
  prior abusers, Michelle got kicked out of her family's home.
• 1:10:52
  After coming out, she rented, a room from a woman who treat her
• 1:10:55
  better than her own family. Um, John learned that many of
• 1:10:59
  the prior tenants just disappeared in the night and so
• 1:11:03
  they were like if Michelle disappears.
• 1:11:05
  Maybe the landlady will assume the same thing, but then they
• 1:11:11
  realize that Michelle was getting benefit payments and
• 1:11:14
  that sealed the deal that was like oh there we go, there's our
• 1:11:18
  catch. Okay, hmm.
• 1:11:20
  I mean, I just want to say well if she's being treated like
• 1:11:24
  really well Buzz about the person that you live I'm with
• 1:11:26
  why would he think that she would just run away?
• 1:11:29
  That's just come to bite him in the butt.
• 1:11:32
  You're all right. Okay.
• 1:11:34
  I was about to say because on their own or part, it just
• 1:11:36
  doesn't sound like it's smart. So they abduct Michelle
• 1:11:40
  September of 1997, Robert fueled by hatred for Barry.
• 1:11:44
  Actually took control of this one Roberts, like he took
• 1:11:47
  advantage of me when I was 13, groom me.
• 1:11:50
  And while I can't undo those seven years, I can stop people
• 1:11:54
  like them from doing the same thing to another Child.
• 1:11:57
  They stole as much of Michelle stuff as they could to make it
• 1:12:00
  look like she ran out in the middle of the night and took her
• 1:12:02
  to snow town where they tortured her worse, than any of the
• 1:12:07
  others, they added electrocution via a car battery, and they
• 1:12:14
  would do this for about an hour. I know that it's about an hour
• 1:12:19
  because they would play a live album called Throwing Copper,
• 1:12:22
  which is about an hour long. After a while John choked her to
• 1:12:28
  death, and then they pushed her down into the acid Barrel to
• 1:12:31
  attempt to dissolve her. Now, they kept Michelle's ID, so
• 1:12:35
  they could try and get the checks and cash them.
• 1:12:37
  And they discovered that they didn't have Michelle's wallet,
• 1:12:40
  which was still back in the room.
• 1:12:42
  Now, the problem was, it's already the next day, so
• 1:12:45
  Michelle, her landlord checked on her and was just like, this
• 1:12:50
  doesn't seem right? In fact, she goes to the police
• 1:12:52
  and reports that her ten of his missing.
• 1:12:54
  The Police are like she probably just left the landlady reached
• 1:12:59
  out to Michelle's friends and no one had anything to say but they
• 1:13:02
  thought she was a little bit too involved, two days.
• 1:13:06
  After this appearance, John comes back and sees that
• 1:13:08
  Michelle's room is cleaned up. That means the landlady probably
• 1:13:11
  has the wallet with her and John's like a have to get to it.
• 1:13:15
  He didn't know anyone who could pass for like a 19 year old girl
• 1:13:19
  and making direct contact with the already suspicious landlady,
• 1:13:22
  was definitely not. Okay.
• 1:13:24
  So, He convinces. Mark's sister in law, her son
• 1:13:31
  Fred. To call the landlady and explain
• 1:13:36
  that Michelle had to move because of her family, but she
• 1:13:39
  was safe down a new city, but she needs her wallet so that she
• 1:13:45
  can get her benefit checks, the landlady's.
• 1:13:48
  Like, I don't believe it and she's like a shell will contact
• 1:13:51
  me directly. If she wants it back, they have
• 1:13:55
  fried make these calls all week long and finally, the landlady
• 1:13:59
  agrees to a meet-up, but John's like, mmm.
• 1:14:03
  We're not going and he was right to be suspicious, because she
• 1:14:08
  actually brought the police with her to the Meetup site.
• 1:14:11
  They abandoned the wallet and the benefits cam.
• 1:14:17
  What happens next though is that when Barry realizes that the
• 1:14:19
  last person that he told John was a terrible person is now
• 1:14:24
  gone. He's like oh no I'm in danger.
• 1:14:30
  Barry is deeply lonely and he's actually quite scared and
• 1:14:34
  pushing 50. So obviously the right thing to
• 1:14:37
  do is to reach out to a local 18 year old Thomas travillian
• 1:14:43
  Thomas was very mentally ill and he was prone to walking the
• 1:14:47
  neighborhood in full combat fatigues.
• 1:14:50
  He had been deemed unfit for military service and this had
• 1:14:53
  been like his childhood dream and so once he couldn't do it,
• 1:14:57
  it kind of became an obsession. He would just like train
• 1:15:00
  constantly and like walk around and fatigues.
• 1:15:06
  One day, December 1977 Berry invites Thomas to have a drink
• 1:15:11
  in the back garden and the to do.
• 1:15:12
  Hit it off Thomas had been training for quite some time.
• 1:15:17
  So he was young and fit which obviously Barry had a thing for
• 1:15:21
  and as for Thomas someone in the neighborhood, treated him with
• 1:15:24
  respect and like he was a person.
• 1:15:27
  It wasn't romantic at first but eventually Thomas moved in with
• 1:15:30
  him Barry. Felt safe enough to talk about
• 1:15:33
  the crew and all the rumors with John and Things began to
• 1:15:40
  circulate from North Salisbury and they were directly from the
• 1:15:44
  mouth of berry Lane. It was enough to stop John from
• 1:15:48
  choosing a different victim and to paint a Target on bearing.
• 1:15:52
  Of course, yes. John had thought that killing
• 1:15:57
  Clinton in front of Barry would get him to shut up, but
• 1:16:01
  obviously, he had not learned. So, it's about a month later
• 1:16:05
  after the last murder, October, 97, Robert and John.
• 1:16:10
  Shut up on Barry Stewart. Step with the six-pack.
• 1:16:13
  He's willing to chat asking about all the rumors.
• 1:16:17
  What Barry didn't know was that John had already gotten to
• 1:16:20
  Thomas and told him about how Barry had groomed, Robert So,
• 1:16:26
  Barry sitting in the room not realizing that all three people
• 1:16:29
  are and on about he's about to die.
• 1:16:32
  Thomas actually is the one to restrain him.
• 1:16:34
  They dragged Barry to the house phone make him call.
• 1:16:37
  His mother tell her that he's moving to Queensland.
• 1:16:40
  He doesn't want anything to do with her anymore.
• 1:16:42
  That he didn't forgive her for how she didn't talk to him years
• 1:16:46
  ago for being gay. This is the last time we'll ever
• 1:16:49
  speak Barry's mom actually told him that she loved him and then
• 1:16:53
  Robert hung up the call. They did a number on Gary.
• 1:16:58
  They gagged him crushed all of his toes while he was alive,
• 1:17:03
  telling him that he was a pedophile.
• 1:17:04
  The, entire time, Robert did the majority of this torture.
• 1:17:10
  Then the bits of berry that were left were wrapped in plastic
• 1:17:13
  putting Barry's car, and they dropped Thomas off at his
• 1:17:16
  apartment. Helped him move.
• 1:17:17
  All of his things back in and get them settled, then back at
• 1:17:20
  the bank, fallen snow town they quickly throw Barry in the band
• 1:17:23
  with Michelle. This is great.
• 1:17:26
  Now they have Barry's house has a base of operations and they
• 1:17:29
  could sell all the crap didn't like and clean out his bank
• 1:17:31
  account too. But now we have another problem.
• 1:17:37
  The Australian Department of Social Services contacts.
• 1:17:41
  Susan via letter and says, we need you to tell us that John is
• 1:17:45
  allowed to cash your checks. It had taken them a year to
• 1:17:49
  realize that something was wrong.
• 1:17:52
  On top of that Thomas travillian is trying to break under the
• 1:17:55
  pressure. This is a young man with a
• 1:17:57
  lifetime of mental illness is not the person you want to be
• 1:18:00
  holding the secret that you helped kill his boyfriend.
• 1:18:04
  So John and lists Jody Elliot marks Elizabeth sister, they're
• 1:18:10
  not married. So she's Elizabeth Hayden.
• 1:18:12
  Now, the woman who hates John. She's like, brings in the sister
• 1:18:17
  to help to truly get her under his spell.
• 1:18:20
  He starts another weird relationship with her.
• 1:18:23
  I wouldn't call an affair because John said that he cared,
• 1:18:25
  absolutely nothing for her and that he had to force himself to
• 1:18:29
  have sex with her, but that it did make Joy.
• 1:18:33
  Jody loyal to him because she believed there was a real
• 1:18:36
  relationship. That's according to him.
• 1:18:38
  Don't quote me on whether Jodi believe that it was a real
• 1:18:40
  relationship or maybe she was just you know having a little
• 1:18:43
  fun either way though he asked you to call the office and
• 1:18:47
  impersonate Suzanne, he did not like the fact that he had to
• 1:18:51
  hand this job to somebody else. But Jody did it and that was all
• 1:18:55
  they needed. And like they had all her
• 1:18:59
  paperwork so they she could answer all the questions, right?
• 1:19:02
  Okay. Now John decides, he needs to
• 1:19:04
  tie up the Loose Ends of this Thomas trillion.
• 1:19:07
  So in November 5th 1997 he and Robert go to talk Thomas had
• 1:19:12
  been a month since the murder and he was a wreck.
• 1:19:15
  He was Nam confused. Could barely speak almost
• 1:19:18
  catatonic. John pretty much just went come
• 1:19:23
  come with me in my car and I drove out past Adelaide into the
• 1:19:27
  woods of curs Brooke set up a noose and Stage Thomas's
• 1:19:32
  suicide. He was found later that day by a
• 1:19:35
  passing hitchhiker. They only learned that Thomas is
• 1:19:40
  one of John's victims later, because John kept newspaper
• 1:19:43
  clippings of all his murders. All of the members of Jon's crew
• 1:19:50
  were dealing with Incredible demons.
• 1:19:52
  And John was using these murders to deal with his hurt, and it
• 1:19:55
  appeared that Robert was on board with him.
• 1:19:59
  Jamie, this is this now stepson sort of was on board.
• 1:20:04
  He'd never been there for a murder and he definitely agreed.
• 1:20:07
  That pedo should die. But Jamie was now in his late
• 1:20:11
  teens and hardcore doing heroin. To just kind of make it through
• 1:20:18
  the day and deal with the demons John was not, okay, with drug
• 1:20:23
  addicts. He believed that losing control
• 1:20:25
  of yourself, was the worst thing you could do.
• 1:20:27
  So on top of that, Jamie doing drugs meant that, he had a loose
• 1:20:30
  end and unreliable member of the team Jamie knew about the things
• 1:20:34
  that happened and when addicts get caught they snatch on people
• 1:20:38
  true, they start dear dude that looks get loose.
• 1:20:42
  So John went to get rid of the heroin and Jamie's life and he
• 1:20:46
  discovered that Jamie like to do heroin with one of his friends
• 1:20:50
  gavin.porter and Gavin need a place to stay.
• 1:20:53
  So John was like, absolutely. You can come stay here with us.
• 1:20:58
  His idea was he can he's Jamie off the drugs and back into the
• 1:21:01
  boy. He was before he Grandin bared,
• 1:21:04
  it for, as long as he could until he came one day at home.
• 1:21:07
  One day, sat down on the sofa and got stuck by a used needle.
• 1:21:11
  That was it. He called Robert and he came
• 1:21:16
  over. They open the back door of
• 1:21:17
  Gavin's car, choked him with a tire iron.
• 1:21:22
  To the point where it almost broke and almost like broke
• 1:21:26
  Gavin snack. Yeah Robert actually brought one
• 1:21:30
  of the barrels. They put Gavin in along with a
• 1:21:33
  tire iron drove just no town. By the time they get the barrel
• 1:21:37
  inside, John had pretty much like he'd pulled so hard, he had
• 1:21:40
  pulled a muscle in his arm and shoulder so he had to actually
• 1:21:43
  have Robert do the chemical mixing robber.
• 1:21:46
  Dropped him off at home and he walked in to a Jamie waiting for
• 1:21:50
  him. Jamie had questions.
• 1:21:52
  Where's Gavin? Why is this car here?
• 1:21:55
  John kind of pushed all the questions off and he's just like
• 1:21:57
  we'll talk about it tomorrow, but Jamie took off that night on
• 1:22:01
  a bender when Jamie got home about three days later.
• 1:22:03
  Gavin's car was gone. Sold off the to at a very
• 1:22:06
  peculiar conversation where Jamie's like, it's not that I
• 1:22:09
  was mad at you. I was mad that my friend is dead
• 1:22:13
  and then John goes on, like a weird rant about drug use.
• 1:22:18
  Ultimately Jamie was only like 19 and this was the only guy
• 1:22:24
  who'd been a decent father to him.
• 1:22:25
  He let it go. And almost ironic moment, Jamie
• 1:22:30
  stepbrother reached out to Elizabeth for a place to stay
• 1:22:35
  like almost at the same time. Because once Jamie had moved
• 1:22:41
  away, dad had shifted his, a bruise abuse from one son to the
• 1:22:45
  other, okay, yeah. Jamie had never fully told John
• 1:22:50
  or his mom about the story, but over the last five years, John
• 1:22:53
  had kind of pieced it together, that Jamie stepped out, has
• 1:22:56
  started sexually abusing him, and then brought on his son to
• 1:22:59
  do it. That boy was Troy's out, two
• 1:23:02
  years older than Jamie and he had molested his brother at his
• 1:23:06
  dad's request. When Elizabeth brought it up,
• 1:23:10
  Jamie was like, in raged? How dare you even think that
• 1:23:14
  it'd be okay to bring this guy here?
• 1:23:16
  And he's like throwing stuff and freaking out.
• 1:23:18
  John's like this is your chance to get him back.
• 1:23:23
  Now Josh Jamie had gone along with some of the other killings
• 1:23:26
  because he believed in the mission of ridding pedophiles
• 1:23:29
  from the world. But this one was personal Trail.
• 1:23:35
  I arrived late one night in August of 1988, they didn't even
• 1:23:39
  let Troy unpack before he was murdered.
• 1:23:44
  Like he literally just laid in bed and was like, who I'm tired.
• 1:23:48
  I'll come back tomorrow and that first night he woke up to Jon.
• 1:23:53
  Jamie Robert and Mark standing over him with the live album,
• 1:23:57
  Throwing Copper playing in the background.
• 1:23:59
  Oh my God. Mark and Robert secured Troy and
• 1:24:03
  Jamie took the lead on torture. First just beating him with his
• 1:24:08
  fist. Then he used to John's tools
• 1:24:10
  this went on for hours. They muffled his screams of the
• 1:24:14
  music and a pillow if Elizabeth heard anything, she sure.
• 1:24:17
  Didn't come looking. Even once Troy was Dad, it
• 1:24:21
  wasn't enough for Jamie. So John was like okay, cut them
• 1:24:24
  up. Then they wrapped him up in a
• 1:24:27
  tarp and took him back to snow town.
• 1:24:30
  Jamie didn't quit heroin but that night was definitely like
• 1:24:34
  bonding for him and John he was just like will be loyal to the
• 1:24:38
  end. The rest of the crew was ready
• 1:24:41
  to except for Mark. Elizabeth Hayden was still kind
• 1:24:48
  of hammering at her husband. She wasn't asking questions
• 1:24:51
  really so much. It's just like You shouldn't
• 1:24:54
  like hang out with him that much.
• 1:24:57
  He seems like a bad influence. Yeah, well so Mark goes to John
• 1:25:03
  and us like how do I deal with the fact that she keeps like
• 1:25:05
  nagging me and John's like I mean we could kill her if you
• 1:25:09
  want. Oh my God, Mark's like nah, I
• 1:25:12
  don't want you to do that. And so instead they decide that
• 1:25:18
  if they kill Fred Brooks, who is now 20 years old, this will keep
• 1:25:22
  the women in line. Jodi and Elizabeth.
• 1:25:25
  This happens in September of 1998, John and Robert did the
• 1:25:29
  Dirty Work. They simply choked him.
• 1:25:31
  They did not torture him. He did not deserve to be
• 1:25:34
  tortured because he was not a pedophile.
• 1:25:36
  They took him this note and put them in a barrel.
• 1:25:41
  It did do one thing, Elizabeth Hayden and Jodi.
• 1:25:44
  Stop speaking to John. After this.
• 1:25:46
  They knew that he was the one who had taken Pride, Jodi was
• 1:25:50
  too scared to talk about what he'd done and Elizabeth was
• 1:25:53
  Furious. Their next victim was Gary,
• 1:26:00
  O'Dwyer. Jamie was the Jimmy is 19 now
• 1:26:09
  and he was kind of debate. Gary was 29 years old and a
• 1:26:13
  loner, he'd been a traffic accident and I was collecting
• 1:26:16
  benefits. He had no friends, no family and
• 1:26:19
  he was very much oblivious to the fact that this random 19
• 1:26:22
  year old was suddenly his friend over the course of about a
• 1:26:26
  month. Jamie came by every day, asking
• 1:26:29
  really personal questions, and then he just stopped and a
• 1:26:32
  couple nights later in October of 98 the crew walks in, they
• 1:26:36
  knew Gary wasn't a pedophile, he wasn't even a Neo-Nazi Gary died
• 1:26:40
  because John need more money. The hello sir.
• 1:26:44
  Just come out for money now, the torture change with Gary, John
• 1:26:48
  thought their victims were becoming unconscious to quickly,
• 1:26:51
  so it was less beatings. More electrical currents.
• 1:26:54
  They actually use something called a very act Transformer to
• 1:26:57
  deliver the current. Now, I'm imagining that's worse.
• 1:27:00
  I don't know a lot about Transformers, and he's every why
• 1:27:03
  but sounds terrible. Everyone took a turn and then
• 1:27:07
  they killed him. Put him in a barrel and deposit
• 1:27:09
  him into town. With Gary's death, everyone's
• 1:27:13
  making enough money that they didn't need regular jobs.
• 1:27:16
  It's super comfortable. The crews really happy with it.
• 1:27:19
  The only person who's not happy is Elizabeth Hayden.
• 1:27:23
  Elizabeth might have been scared of John but she was also still
• 1:27:25
  whispering in a marketeer that you need to leave him behind.
• 1:27:29
  She couldn't really understand why.
• 1:27:30
  And so she started going through their personal finances and
• 1:27:33
  that's when she realized that Mark was so embroiled in these
• 1:27:36
  multiple streams of fraud that taking John down would take Mark
• 1:27:40
  to so, but she decided this was worth it.
• 1:27:43
  She didn't know that Mark had committed any of them are
• 1:27:45
  Murders. She just thought that he was
• 1:27:48
  part of the fraud. And so she's like, fine, he'll
• 1:27:50
  go to jail for fraud for a little bit and then he'll be
• 1:27:53
  free of John who's probably a killer, right?
• 1:27:57
  However, she wanted to find just a little bit more evidence
• 1:28:00
  before she told the police. She started asking some really
• 1:28:04
  specific questions. God, just for you, get called
• 1:28:09
  and November of 1998. She asked about the rental
• 1:28:12
  property in snow town. On November 21st, 1998, John
• 1:28:21
  told Mark to take Jodi somewhere to movie just out of the house
• 1:28:28
  for a couple hours. John decided it was time to take
• 1:28:31
  care of Elizabeth. When John arrived, Elizabeth had
• 1:28:36
  to have known her time us up. And the worst part about this
• 1:28:39
  one that actually kind of like hit my heart a little bit.
• 1:28:43
  John said that he lied to Elizabeth and told her that Marc
• 1:28:48
  told them to kill her. And that she sobbed as he choked
• 1:28:56
  her to death. Wow, she died thinking that the
• 1:28:59
  man she loved betrayed her. Robert, Jamie Mark and John
• 1:29:06
  drove to snow town and silence. The only occasional sound SOB
• 1:29:13
  for Mark. He'd wanted her to stop digging.
• 1:29:16
  Stop searching, stop fighting John.
• 1:29:19
  After this Mark fell apart, he pulled away from the group.
• 1:29:23
  He was virtually dead inside. Both he and Jody walked around
• 1:29:27
  their house. Like zombies, Jodi son was dead.
• 1:29:30
  Now her sister, the police of course it came around asking
• 1:29:33
  questions. Elizabeth Brother Gary and
• 1:29:36
  Sinclair was really championing the search to find her Mark.
• 1:29:41
  Actually found Elizabeth Research into John and the rest
• 1:29:45
  of the crew and he ended up burning it all still.
• 1:29:49
  Somehow loyal to John, even while being emotionally,
• 1:29:53
  destroyed job, completely didn't understand marks Behavior.
• 1:29:59
  He's like, why is he so depressed?
• 1:30:03
  Why is he not going out anymore? Why did you cry and randomly?
• 1:30:07
  Why is he just trailing off as he's talks?
• 1:30:10
  Like he forgot, why? Why indeed John didn't
• 1:30:15
  understand. Love I gotta tell you from, from
• 1:30:19
  reading about him, and from him do just seems like a sociopath
• 1:30:24
  like he just didn't have any real human connection, anybody?
• 1:30:27
  Oh yeah, as soon as you said, he would turn his emotions on and
• 1:30:30
  off and I was like, oh, so she's a teenager.
• 1:30:32
  Yeah, look up there you go. That's yeah, there you go.
• 1:30:38
  So John is like, you know, it'll bring mark back, you know, it'd
• 1:30:42
  be a great thing. Group murder.
• 1:30:45
  Let's do it. Don't think murder is what he
• 1:30:48
  needs right now. So, it's early spring. 1999,
• 1:30:55
  John starts hunting for a good victim.
• 1:30:58
  The wall of killers in his house is surprisingly long, but none
• 1:31:02
  of them will do. Now, Jamie had one other step
• 1:31:06
  brother. His name was David Johnson.
• 1:31:09
  And the, to actually were trying to have like a decent
• 1:31:11
  relationship. They would say, birthday cards,
• 1:31:15
  or call here, and there on a holiday, but David was the last
• 1:31:20
  link to the man who hurt him. So much as a boy.
• 1:31:23
  So, when they had those calls, John would start like listening.
• 1:31:29
  And twisting, the things that David was saying.
• 1:31:33
  He exclusively began referring to David by the gay slur that
• 1:31:37
  starts with an F. Oh, are you talking to the app
• 1:31:40
  again? Things like that, when David was
• 1:31:44
  excited and sharing good things that were happening in his life,
• 1:31:47
  John was just like he's rubbing that in your face because he
• 1:31:50
  knows you're a druggie and you have nothing by the time, John
• 1:31:55
  planned, the murder Jamie was on board.
• 1:31:59
  They lured David with a deal on a good new computer May 9th,
• 1:32:04
  1999, Jamie picked David up and took him.
• 1:32:07
  The snow town, they killed David and the office before taking him
• 1:32:10
  down to the waltz, they threatened David with extreme
• 1:32:13
  violence, unless he read out this statement, they prepared
• 1:32:16
  for him, the recording was like, I'm leaving a delayed, I'm
• 1:32:19
  cutting ties with my family. He they made him admit to like
• 1:32:23
  all sorts of gay stuff and pedophilia.
• 1:32:27
  During all of that. David realized that the only
• 1:32:35
  thing keeping him alive was probably the pin number for his
• 1:32:38
  bank card because he heard he heard John talking about it.
• 1:32:42
  And so, David ultimately gave them a wrong PIN number and
• 1:32:46
  Robert, and Jamie went off to go try it.
• 1:32:49
  And they left Mark with John And of course, David was there to
• 1:32:58
  Marks and on the live album, Throwing Copper, and John
• 1:33:03
  silently brought up the tools. And then Mark used all of them,
• 1:33:09
  taking out all of his rage and sadness that he bottled up after
• 1:33:14
  the death of his wife. That album lasted for an hour
• 1:33:19
  and marketing the entire time, but Jamie cat came back.
• 1:33:23
  He saw the dead body and was just kind of like, what the
• 1:33:25
  hell? I thought we were doing this
• 1:33:26
  together and John's like, listen, Mark really needed this.
• 1:33:32
  And then John dismembered, David takes chunks of the Flesh and
• 1:33:39
  like Cooks it, like a steak. Offer some to everybody.
• 1:33:46
  Mark who's covered in David's blood as like, I do not want to
• 1:33:51
  eat this man Jamie's. Like I'm good on that one but
• 1:33:56
  Robert Duggan. As did John, they even cracked a
• 1:33:59
  beer and laughed. Now, John may have been happy
• 1:34:05
  that day, but he's not going to be happy with what followed see,
• 1:34:09
  geryon. Sinclair was not giving up on
• 1:34:11
  his missing sister and he was very much, you know, pushing the
• 1:34:16
  police to do more but also harassing the police and the
• 1:34:22
  first Gap at the police. Really zeroed in on was the fact
• 1:34:24
  that Mark and Jodi had different stories as to where Elizabeth
• 1:34:27
  had gone. It was like the two of them had
• 1:34:30
  been given the same like vague story but they had gone in like
• 1:34:33
  a different direction. The more they interviewed Mark
• 1:34:38
  and Jodi the more, the stories begin to diverge.
• 1:34:43
  Garyun goes. It's kind of weird that Mark
• 1:34:45
  doesn't have a job and the police were like, wait, he
• 1:34:50
  doesn't have a job. This house is really expensive,
• 1:34:53
  and it's in a really nice neighborhood.
• 1:34:55
  How's he pay you for this? Yep, the police start looking
• 1:34:59
  into the finances and they follow the same trail.
• 1:35:02
  That Elizabeth did, like, literally Elizabeth did the job
• 1:35:05
  for them ahead of time. And it sucks so much because she
• 1:35:08
  should have just stopped and not asked about, It's no town
• 1:35:12
  because that is what got her killed.
• 1:35:18
  Either way, the police realized that there were seven Social
• 1:35:20
  Security checks attached to seven missing people all going
• 1:35:23
  into market accounts and very quickly moved from a small
• 1:35:26
  investigation to a big one. The police didn't have any idea
• 1:35:30
  how big this was and they were like, is this just a massive
• 1:35:32
  fraud case intertwined, with missing people.
• 1:35:35
  They discover snow town and unfortunately, for David
• 1:35:39
  Johnson. He was murdered two weeks before
• 1:35:41
  they got access to look at the bank on Main Street and snow
• 1:35:44
  town. May 20th 1999 the creeped into
• 1:35:49
  this Dusty old bank and like silence is a very clear path to
• 1:35:54
  all the rooms. Were the members of the group
• 1:35:56
  walked in the dust They get to the computer, they it's doesn't
• 1:36:01
  have many files on it. They hear David Johnson's
• 1:36:04
  confession, but it hadn't, been edited.
• 1:36:07
  So, the threats of violence were still mixed in there.
• 1:36:09
  So they knew that it was not a real confession.
• 1:36:13
  They went down to the Vault and they see all these bins barrels
• 1:36:17
  and so they open one of them with a screwdriver like kind of
• 1:36:20
  pop it up and look into the inside.
• 1:36:23
  The small was revolting, and it was much too much for simple
• 1:36:26
  detectives, they didn't bring in six Specialists, who wore like
• 1:36:31
  breathing apparatus has to open the barrels.
• 1:36:37
  And pull out the remains. So, the police don't
• 1:36:41
  immediately. Interview.
• 1:36:46
  John them they just they walk around Adelaide and they ask
• 1:36:50
  questions and that's when they learn from the neighbors.
• 1:36:55
  Oh Mark's not like the leader of that group, it's John bunting.
• 1:37:00
  They discovered that he lived near Suzanne and Ray so they
• 1:37:04
  request permission from the court to dig up the backyard.
• 1:37:08
  And of course, they find Suzanne and pieces and Ray on May 28 and
• 1:37:12
  Ray, May 23rd 1999, they did this at midnight.
• 1:37:15
  So Could tip John off. And actually, once they find the
• 1:37:20
  remains, they do a arrest, but all at the same time, John Mark,
• 1:37:25
  Robert and Jamie, I'll get picked up and they are taken to
• 1:37:29
  different via in different Vehicles.
• 1:37:30
  Two different interrogation rooms.
• 1:37:32
  None of them are allowed to see or speak to each other.
• 1:37:36
  John says nothing. He was always planning on the
• 1:37:39
  day that somebody found out. Right?
• 1:37:43
  For hours, the police are like, what about, you know?
• 1:37:45
  What's going on with the bones in the barrels?
• 1:37:47
  He had an answer for everything. The police actually had to
• 1:37:51
  station themselves around snow town bank as every media Outlet
• 1:37:54
  in the country was trying to break in. the police did their
• 1:37:58
  job, they followed the evidence, they collected more data, John
• 1:38:02
  always sat there cool as a cucumber convinced, he was the
• 1:38:04
  smartest man in the room but he was not See, John didn't go to
• 1:38:12
  college. So all of his chemistry
• 1:38:14
  knowledge was from high school And John hadn't bought the right
• 1:38:20
  chemical. Like the one they had in school.
• 1:38:23
  The chemical. He bought hadn't dissolved, the
• 1:38:27
  bodies, but it pickled them, it preserved, the bodies.
• 1:38:33
  Yes it did. Oh my God.
• 1:38:37
  So they didn't get, they couldn't get proof of the
• 1:38:40
  torture for the bodies that were in the ground because they've
• 1:38:43
  been there for so long. But for the bodies in the
• 1:38:46
  barrels, every Mark, every bruise, every cut, every blow
• 1:38:51
  torch, mark, Was visible had been preserved.
• 1:38:59
  John's arrogance had pretty much doomed, everybody.
• 1:39:02
  They had the coroner report they had the tools that they use to
• 1:39:05
  do the torture all the bodies and the financial details.
• 1:39:09
  This is a slam-dunk case but they wanted and out an Insider.
• 1:39:13
  They wanted a confession from one of the man they had in
• 1:39:15
  custody. They started by trying to get
• 1:39:19
  Julie to talk The problem was. one Joanie Jodi was complicit
• 1:39:26
  with the Suzanne fraud to, she was so like messed up from grief
• 1:39:32
  that She admits, she agreed to anything.
• 1:39:36
  The police said and they were like, yeah.
• 1:39:40
  They're going to argue that after these this lost her Minds
• 1:39:43
  addled, she's not going to be a good witness, then they tried
• 1:39:46
  Elizabeth Harvey. The problem was while Jamie's in
• 1:39:52
  prison, Elizabeth gets cancer and she actually dies before
• 1:39:56
  they can really get a lot of information.
• 1:40:02
  That was the straw that really broke Jamie's back.
• 1:40:06
  Sitting alone in his cell. He had a lot of time to think
• 1:40:09
  and all his thinking, went back to John, John killed, his family
• 1:40:12
  members, John killed, his friend, John isolated him from
• 1:40:16
  everyone, who loved him. John, manipulated him into doing
• 1:40:18
  terrible things, John had never raped him like his dad or his
• 1:40:21
  brother, but John heard him, just as badly, and now that he
• 1:40:25
  didn't have to worry about if him talking would hurt Elizabeth
• 1:40:31
  He said, I'll Make a Deal. I will plead guilty to the
• 1:40:36
  things that I was there to see. He'd only been involved in four
• 1:40:40
  of the murders but he agreed that he would accept the
• 1:40:42
  punishment for the direct harm. He caused during the multi-year
• 1:40:46
  run up to the court case. The court tried to protect his
• 1:40:49
  anonymity because he was there Smoking Gun.
• 1:40:52
  I'm no reporters, no photos, not even description of him in the
• 1:40:56
  books. Jamie's trial was the first and
• 1:40:58
  the shortest he received, four life sentences, one for each of
• 1:41:01
  the people he helped killed and he started his time in prison.
• 1:41:03
  In June 21st, 2001. Robert Wagner and John bunting
• 1:41:09
  were tried to gather. John got on the stand and
• 1:41:12
  gloated proud of it all. It was like he had given a
• 1:41:16
  police confession. Just in front of an audience.
• 1:41:21
  He was proud of it. He wanted to be known for it.
• 1:41:23
  He said, I killed 11 of the 12 people, which was true.
• 1:41:26
  Robert admitted to only three, John was convicted of 11 and
• 1:41:29
  Robert was convicted of 10 that took another two years.
• 1:41:34
  So we only have such 2003 now Mark was different because he
• 1:41:38
  was the least involved in the murders but deeply entwined in
• 1:41:40
  the fraud case. Marks case went happened in
• 1:41:43
  2004, he was convicted of five counts of assisting with a
• 1:41:46
  murder and that was later upgraded to seven counts in
• 1:41:49
  2007, Robert John actually push for appeal after appeal and in
• 1:41:54
  2005, the Supreme Court of Australia.
• 1:41:57
  Rejects their case. And these are two direct quotes
• 1:42:00
  that I love them saying that John and Robert were in the
• 1:42:04
  business of Killing For Pleasure and And incapable of true
• 1:42:09
  Rehabilitation. Yeah, Robert.
• 1:42:12
  And John did however, win on the want to peel on the death of
• 1:42:16
  Suzanne Allen in May of 2007. No one could prove how Susan
• 1:42:20
  died and the jury couldn't decide the house in Salisbury,
• 1:42:25
  was demolished by its owner. That was the one with the two
• 1:42:29
  bodies in the backyard, right? Yeah.
• 1:42:33
  The house in Murray bridge, where Elizabeth and John and
• 1:42:38
  Jamie lived was sold more than likely to pay for court fees.
• 1:42:42
  The bank which had a four-bedroom house attached was
• 1:42:46
  put on oxygen, February of 2012 for two hundred thousand
• 1:42:49
  dollars. It did not hit half of that, so
• 1:42:53
  they tried again, and this time it didn't open house, like five
• 1:42:56
  dollars a person and all the people who showed up what, get
• 1:42:59
  all the money they made will go to charity.
• 1:43:02
  They made a call. I mean, like $700, so that's not
• 1:43:04
  bad. And they did sell the Property
• 1:43:08
  four hundred eighty five thousand dollars the family who
• 1:43:10
  owns it live in the house portion and they did turn the
• 1:43:15
  property back into a bank, okay? I saw an article saying that
• 1:43:21
  they were going to put a plaque up to memorialize the victims,
• 1:43:23
  but I have not seen the actual plaque.
• 1:43:27
  And even though it took like six years, the actual legally, as
• 1:43:32
  was a very difficult here. Great.
• 1:43:35
  Yeah, it was like cut and dry. But, yeah, I love the fact that
• 1:43:39
  like, he just and he didn't even bother to check because they
• 1:43:42
  were doing this for, like three years.
• 1:43:44
  Like, did you look in the first bin and like, see that like
• 1:43:48
  check to give the body dissolved?
• 1:43:51
  Like that would be. The one thing you would do like
• 1:43:53
  just make her like test out to solution that you have.
• 1:43:56
  Make sure it's actually acid and it would dissolve your bodies.
• 1:44:00
  But I mean, we graduated High school.
• 1:44:04
  So we would know the check. I'm just saying like just
• 1:44:09
  checking general or at least test tested.
• 1:44:14
  On something. Yeah.
• 1:44:18
  Oh my God. But yeah, that's the story
• 1:44:22
  bodies in the barrels. Look, I it's such a weird
• 1:44:28
  feeling, right? Yeah.
• 1:44:30
  Because like pedophiles, yes, no one likes.
• 1:44:32
  Pedophiles it. Do they deserve to die?
• 1:44:35
  Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:44:38
  Weirdness here. Is that not everybody was a
• 1:44:40
  pedophile. Exactly.
• 1:44:41
  He just he assumed. If they were gay, they were
• 1:44:44
  Obviously a pedophile to use it. I mean, Barry did groom Robert.
• 1:44:48
  That is real. Okay.
• 1:44:49
  Yes, something sometime. And honestly he was about to do
• 1:44:53
  the same thing to Thomas. He definitely like 50 year old
• 1:44:58
  man. Should not be trying the sleep
• 1:45:01
  with an 18 year old. No, no.
• 1:45:02
  They should not be friends with anybody in their teens or
• 1:45:07
  twenties, maybe, 1930s or 50. I mean, yeah, it's rough.
• 1:45:13
  So on one hand, you're like, oh, I understand Partially, the
• 1:45:21
  understand, the one he'd yes, and the Crusade against child
• 1:45:26
  sexual assault, but on the other hand, he was just a man who
• 1:45:30
  really liked. Well, after his abuse, he was
• 1:45:34
  someone who enjoyed indulging in the pain of others.
• 1:45:38
  Yeah, he needed that. So you can get over his own
• 1:45:42
  pain. Goodness gracious.
• 1:45:46
  Yes, that's a, that's a, that's a tough one because like I, like
• 1:45:50
  he said, we understand it, but it's not like that.
• 1:45:53
  You weren't doing it to every pedophile.
• 1:45:55
  You're doing it to keep me. Just pick the one guy because he
• 1:45:58
  was like, I, you get benefits checks any money.
• 1:46:01
  Yep. Goodness gracious.
• 1:46:05
  It's wild because in the States, you have to, like, verify all
• 1:46:07
  this information every year. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:46:10
  I'm sure probably now their systems probably a little bit
• 1:46:13
  better. But back a good 20 years ago,
• 1:46:16
  the checks and balances were not in place to make sure because
• 1:46:19
  this is actually like, well, okay they didn't kill them, but
• 1:46:22
  when I was in Philadelphia, it happened, multiple times that
• 1:46:25
  people like kidnapped, they're like elderly relatives.
• 1:46:30
  Yeah, I said the Social Security checks, I remember it happening.
• 1:46:33
  I remember hearing about that, it was so unlike the family
• 1:46:38
  member would be like, in the basement, like almost starved to
• 1:46:41
  death. Yes, yes.
• 1:46:43
  Scruple. So check fraud mix with abuse of
• 1:46:48
  people with disabilities or elderly.
• 1:46:51
  Apparently, is much more common than we think.
• 1:46:54
  And so, I think that might be why.
• 1:46:56
  Now people have to check in every year.
• 1:46:59
  It's a good you haven't been kidnapped, right?
• 1:47:01
  Yeah, it's good thing. Well, okay, what do you have to
• 1:47:09
  talk about today? Okay.
• 1:47:12
  To those of you that know me, you know?
• 1:47:15
  I'm all about that gamer life. Okay.
• 1:47:19
  I've been poor with that. Yeah, me and Brittany about that
• 1:47:22
  gamer life. I mean, go ahead and we'll Elder
• 1:47:27
  ring since it was released. And no, I have not beaten yet,
• 1:47:32
  it's been a month. I don't care if it's just, it's
• 1:47:34
  a hard game. Okay, is what my ass?
• 1:47:37
  I got. Massive fact, legendary, and
• 1:47:40
  I've been playing the game. I played through the first one
• 1:47:44
  last week. No, two weeks ago.
• 1:47:47
  And then I'm on the second one now.
• 1:47:49
  I've just been playing through every RPG.
• 1:47:52
  I can get my hands on right now. It started with cyberpunk 2077,
• 1:47:56
  and I just can't stop. Yeah, they're fun games.
• 1:48:00
  RPGs are really fun. Well, I didn't think they were
• 1:48:02
  that many for like Playstation Xbox.
• 1:48:07
  But there are lots, o. Ya know.
• 1:48:09
  There are tons, what back to our point.
• 1:48:13
  So today's or yesterday's creep is game-related.
• 1:48:18
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:48:19
  You know, it's funny because I've been actually trying to
• 1:48:21
  stream some scary games as well. I got to like one is a very,
• 1:48:27
  very woke horror game. And the other one is a dating
• 1:48:34
  simulator about Cryptids. And, you know, if there's a
• 1:48:38
  chance for me to romance a freaking monster, I'm in there.
• 1:48:49
  But yeah, it's today I decided to do a another haunted gaming
• 1:48:58
  episode. Like the first one I did was
• 1:49:03
  about, you know, some Creepypasta video games, like
• 1:49:07
  Pokemon and stuff like that. And this one is kind of similar
• 1:49:12
  a similar. It's a, you know, they're the
• 1:49:15
  games. I will be talking about Don't
• 1:49:19
  really exist but there's no proof that they don't exist.
• 1:49:24
  Either, that makes sense. Is this like that weird thing is
• 1:49:28
  I'll do with the clock. The Clock Town, there's some
• 1:49:34
  sort of weird, creepy, pasta /. You can make this thing really
• 1:49:38
  happen that involves like the original Zelda and a clock
• 1:49:43
  thing. And I listen, I just know it's
• 1:49:47
  creepy pasta that I read one time and place it is real.
• 1:49:51
  It's you tell my been drowned Maybe it's part of that.
• 1:49:56
  It's the N64 thing. Yeah, yeah, it is okay.
• 1:50:03
  It's sort of something like that, but that's about video
• 1:50:07
  game die in the game. You die in real life.
• 1:50:14
  Okay? It's something like that.
• 1:50:15
  That's that's all that's one of them.
• 1:50:17
  Sorry that was from the video game horror movie that was about
• 1:50:24
  Gosh. The Countess Bathory.
• 1:50:27
  Okay, yes. As you explored her castle.
• 1:50:30
  Listen. That guy movie was slapped on.
• 1:50:32
  It was good. It's, yeah.
• 1:50:34
  I've seen it. It's not bad.
• 1:50:36
  I like it. There's another teen horror
• 1:50:38
  movie. And the reason why I'm talking
• 1:50:40
  about video game, like horror stuff today is because there's a
• 1:50:44
  movie on Netflix As baseball, and it's based, it might be
• 1:50:48
  based on one of the stories I'm going to tell you today.
• 1:50:52
  Yeah, I forget what it's called. I got to look it up again, but
• 1:50:55
  it's the one of the new ones is came out.
• 1:50:56
  So I think one of the things that you talked about a little
• 1:51:03
  while ago, one of those weird like videos.
• 1:51:08
  I think I saw one and it was super creepy because someone had
• 1:51:12
  made a video game, that was almost identical to the the
• 1:51:18
  creepy video. You're talking.
• 1:51:21
  It was the one with the person running through like the office.
• 1:51:24
  Mase you're saying chasing them the, but the back rooms because
• 1:51:29
  you had told me about it and I'm watching the game and I'm like,
• 1:51:34
  this is exactly what Brian was talking about is really creepy.
• 1:51:38
  Is to back up what turned it into a game.
• 1:51:41
  There's a pretty weird, there's a game about the back rooms and
• 1:51:43
  there's a game about medel that Mandela effect as well, and then
• 1:51:48
  I can build a catalog. I found the original backrooms
• 1:51:50
  videos and there's more of them. Oh yeah.
• 1:51:53
  No, they're too. Yeah, they're doing a lot of
• 1:51:56
  creepy creepy. So, for today, I'm just going to
• 1:51:59
  do two stories one. I actually did a write-up on and
• 1:52:02
  the other one, I think it would just be better for me to tell
• 1:52:05
  you the story. Okay.
• 1:52:07
  Like to read it. You guys so that, you know, you
• 1:52:10
  get the whole sense of it. And I'm like, it's there all
• 1:52:18
  their old stories so it doesn't really matter.
• 1:52:21
  I don't think so. Now for story, I, it's a, it's
• 1:52:28
  a, it's the game is cold. Paul libous, I guess I was
• 1:52:35
  pronounced Pol ybi. U.s. okay.
• 1:52:43
  That's what if you don't look it up.
• 1:52:46
  It's a so back in 1981 There's a mysterious arcade cabinet that
• 1:52:56
  that shows up in Portland, Oregon and this was no ordinary
• 1:53:03
  game. A lot of people who played the
• 1:53:09
  game speculated that it was either a tool used by the the
• 1:53:18
  the government US government to test.
• 1:53:23
  So this is total, this is sort of like a conspiracy mixed in,
• 1:53:27
  with some creepy. It's so is used by the US
• 1:53:33
  government to the test, someone's like agility or
• 1:53:37
  mental, you know, mental cognitive congregation stuff
• 1:53:40
  like that, you know, for recruiting soldiers for the
• 1:53:45
  Army. And it's funny because I
• 1:53:51
  remember hearing something about the US Army, actually having
• 1:53:55
  like the recruits playing video games because you know how your
• 1:53:59
  reflexes are good. If you're playing video games in
• 1:54:04
  which they really are. And it's just funny.
• 1:54:07
  Tell the story like it just correlated that there is real
• 1:54:14
  Truth to this. Absolutely.
• 1:54:19
  Oh. He Pol y bi us.
• 1:54:26
  Polybius. Yeah, Holly B is yes.
• 1:54:31
  We've mentioned this have we well briefly.
• 1:54:35
  It was when I talked about I think was talked about MK Ultra.
• 1:54:38
  Okay. Okay.
• 1:54:40
  It was like in passing I was super into it because I was
• 1:54:44
  focused more on all the other stuff attached to MKUltra.
• 1:54:48
  Okay so if you guys wouldn't listen to MKUltra stuff going to
• 1:54:51
  go up, subscribe to our patreon or or Spotify whatever.
• 1:55:03
  Yeah yeah, yeah, okay. So you know it's it was
• 1:55:08
  something that was either used for training recruiting soldiers
• 1:55:13
  or it was something that the CIA planted that was used for like
• 1:55:19
  you said and K Ultra a brainwashing tool, or it was
• 1:55:25
  just like put there by the the man in Black Who were just
• 1:55:30
  trying to collect information. About whatever it like, Men In
• 1:55:36
  Black. They're aliens, okay?
• 1:55:38
  They're aliens are weird guys. Who knows?
• 1:55:40
  What they want to collect data at all on?
• 1:55:44
  At least you're not probing bugs.
• 1:55:47
  Who knows our aliens? Okay.
• 1:55:53
  Oh, god. Um, okay, so so like I said,
• 1:55:57
  this, this, this art is arcade, it shows up this, this arcade
• 1:56:02
  cabinet shows up in Portland, as or this arcade, and Portland
• 1:56:06
  Oregon 1981. Now, it had, it was addicting to
• 1:56:14
  some people and a lot of people who play the game, you know,
• 1:56:21
  they stopped playing the game. And then after a while, don't be
• 1:56:24
  playing, no one would be playing the game but then some guys
• 1:56:28
  dressed in black would come and like mess with the game.
• 1:56:35
  That's what the back of the game.
• 1:56:37
  You know, go inside of it, get some stuff out of there and And
• 1:56:45
  then like leave and people were just like, what the, what was
• 1:56:49
  that all about. So, you know, rumors of structs
• 1:56:51
  are spreading, like, all this game must have something to do
• 1:56:54
  with the Men in Black, or the government, they're like, you
• 1:56:57
  assume, because if I see someone coming, open up the a game
• 1:57:03
  cabinet and Fiddle with it, I'm assuming they're fixing
• 1:57:05
  something, but okay, but they're dressed in case someone dressed
• 1:57:11
  in black. Black sunglasses.
• 1:57:14
  I got that black suit on, I would say.
• 1:57:17
  That's a man in Black. If I was young I would have
• 1:57:21
  thought. Yes.
• 1:57:23
  I mean I would I mean I won't be like yeah yeah yeah.
• 1:57:31
  Like what are these guys doing this?
• 1:57:33
  Talk to him. Like stranger things style.
• 1:57:35
  Oh my God. So, I read this part that says
• 1:57:42
  there are two documentarians Todd Muto and John frechette.
• 1:57:51
  Wait, no is another one dalen, Rafe.
• 1:57:55
  So they are, they're looking, they're doing like a documentary
• 1:57:59
  on Trying to figure out this arcade cabinet actually existed.
• 1:58:06
  And if the room in the rumors behind it, we're actually true.
• 1:58:12
  The name, meaning of it, the paulibus livius.
• 1:58:16
  Polybius, no. I do not.
• 1:58:18
  Is there a meaning behind it? He's a Greek philosopher from
• 1:58:21
  2008. I saw that I saw that he was a
• 1:58:25
  good puzzle maker. I didn't know there was
• 1:58:28
  something else. Okay.
• 1:58:29
  Yeah, I saw that I saw So it's a good name for a video game
• 1:58:33
  regard. I really is, you know, whether
• 1:58:35
  it's real or not like polybius, it's a, I guess I don't
• 1:58:39
  understand like the one thing that I like it, because I guess
• 1:58:41
  this pops up in loads of gamer forms and things.
• 1:58:46
  Like why would like Puzzles make people have, like seizures?
• 1:58:51
  I mean, like if there is nothing flashing it Mikey they never
• 1:58:56
  talk about what actually happens in the game.
• 1:58:59
  No, they really don't. Is he The people who like all
• 1:59:02
  this mystery it was like some people say it was like a
• 1:59:06
  simulator so like a you know, simulator or some people got
• 1:59:10
  sick from playing it. So this doesn't really say
• 1:59:14
  headaches migraines. There's like a newspaper article
• 1:59:17
  about a heart attack. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:59:22
  People will were but yeah, they were doing searches, you know,
• 1:59:28
  they got a Kickstarter to see if this game arcade was really real
• 1:59:32
  or not I mean there's yeah there's no real proof of it
• 1:59:35
  being real right now. So those are like they're
• 1:59:39
  searching. Good.
• 1:59:42
  Documentary to watch them. Great, exactly.
• 1:59:45
  Now, there are games that have been made based off of this.
• 1:59:50
  Yes, I have seen some of those. Okay.
• 1:59:53
  All right. Yeah, there's some for the PC.
• 1:59:56
  Some for PlayStation, The named Paulette.
• 2:00:02
  Was it? Polybius you?
• 2:00:03
  How did you say? Yes, I'm saying what you said
• 2:00:05
  it? Okay.
• 2:00:07
  Yes, it's, it's popped up a lot over the years and it's like, in
• 2:00:14
  popular culture. If anyways, watches him soon as
• 2:00:17
  I could, I could have put this in my Simpsons episode.
• 2:00:19
  Oh yeah, that isn't a Simpson. Yeah.
• 2:00:23
  Martin arcade and there's an arcade cabinet next to him and
• 2:00:27
  it says, polybius on. It's spelled the same way.
• 2:00:30
  It's written the same way as as the one is and I think in Metal
• 2:00:38
  Gear Solid, there is also a reference to polybius.
• 2:00:45
  It's like at the end there's a as Medicare Solitude there's a
• 2:00:51
  like, a plans plans of making project.
• 2:00:54
  Polybius and if you look at the blueprints, it's an arcade
• 2:00:58
  cabinet. And like just little, if
• 2:01:02
  sprinkled out throughout history, like this thing might
• 2:01:06
  be real, or it's just something that people like to talk about.
• 2:01:15
  but yeah that's that was one that's like it's not really
• 2:01:19
  creepy but it's just like you know men in black or coming in
• 2:01:21
  to check out this arcade cabinet and It may be used for testing
• 2:01:30
  and like training soldiers, or it could just be used for all
• 2:01:34
  the interesting thing about like the claims about like the
• 2:01:36
  headaches and stuff is that like I mean, do you remember that
• 2:01:39
  Nintendo had set that sat on a table?
• 2:01:44
  Oh yes of course. I mean that did cause like
• 2:01:47
  issues with people's eyes and their heads and stuff, so it's
• 2:01:51
  not super far off from the realm of reality.
• 2:01:54
  No. Not at all.
• 2:01:58
  Yeah, I guess there are a few Creepypastas about this as well.
• 2:02:05
  I'm not going to read any of those today because they'll be
• 2:02:08
  extra long but there's another video game that's almost like
• 2:02:15
  this. Okay.
• 2:02:17
  It's um, stop me if you've heard this one, it's called kill
• 2:02:22
  switch. It's I mean okay there's an
• 2:02:30
  actual game called kill switch. It's on the PlayStation.
• 2:02:33
  I think we're something like it's very old 80s.
• 2:02:36
  Yeah yeah but there is a story about a game called kill switch
• 2:02:44
  and that's one I'm going to I'm going to finish off with today
• 2:02:49
  because it's extra long. Okay and I feel like it's a good
• 2:02:54
  story. So indulge me, let me get you my
• 2:02:59
  narrator space. All right. so, in the spring of
• 2:03:06
  1989, They're the car. Veena Corporation, released a
• 2:03:11
  curious game. Who's this submit dissemination
• 2:03:16
  among America's students that fall was Swift and Furious?
• 2:03:22
  So its popularity was ultimately short-lived.
• 2:03:26
  The game was kill switch on a surface, it was a variant on a,
• 2:03:31
  the mystery, or horror survival gain, the precursor to the mist
• 2:03:36
  and Silent get Hill. Franchises.
• 2:03:39
  The Narrative showed a complexity for which carbonyl is
• 2:03:43
  known. As though, the graphics were
• 2:03:46
  monochrome, vague gray, white shapes against the black
• 2:03:51
  background. So am IDI versions of checks
• 2:03:56
  folk songs played throughout players could choose between two
• 2:04:03
  avatars and invisible demon named gassed or a visible human
• 2:04:09
  woman. Owen, name Porto.
• 2:04:12
  L P0, R t0. Now playing is gas was
• 2:04:18
  considerably more difficult due to his, you know, being
• 2:04:22
  invisible and players, were highly liable to reset, restart
• 2:04:26
  the game, as a portal, after the first level in, which it was
• 2:04:31
  impossible to gauge jumps or aim, however, gas was clearly,
• 2:04:36
  the more powerful character he had fire Brea's in a coal steam
• 2:04:40
  attack but as it was above the skill level of most players to
• 2:04:47
  keep track of where to fire breathing poison dispensing
• 2:04:51
  invisible imp was on their screen once a fire and steam had
• 2:04:56
  run out Porto became more or less default Now, let me stop it
• 2:05:03
  right here and I'm going to say that there's another story about
• 2:05:07
  this kill, switch game. Now, the kill switch is actually
• 2:05:12
  you only get one playthrough. You only get you only get one
• 2:05:17
  playthrough, if you die during this playthrough, then the game,
• 2:05:22
  basically stops and resets itself.
• 2:05:25
  It just deletes itself from your system, So, it was a computer
• 2:05:30
  game and it just like if you died or if you got to the end of
• 2:05:34
  the game then it completely deleted self.
• 2:05:40
  Porto's signal earlier singular ability was seemingly random
• 2:05:44
  gross, she expanded and contracted in size, Drew out the
• 2:05:47
  game. It Kansas Engineering grad claim
• 2:05:50
  to have figured out the pattern involved, but for reasons which
• 2:05:54
  will become obvious, his work was lost Portugal awakens in a
• 2:06:00
  dark and awakens in the dark with wounds in her elbows
• 2:06:07
  confused, seeking a way out, she ascends through the levels of a
• 2:06:11
  coal mine, in which it is slowly revealed that she was once an
• 2:06:15
  employee, investigating is collapse and beset, on all sides
• 2:06:21
  by demons similar to gas as well as this was dead Foreman.
• 2:06:28
  Cole, golems and demonic inspectors from the God.
• 2:06:34
  So, vaak tick. So badhak Corporation Who's boxy
• 2:06:40
  bodies were closed and red, the only color of the game.
• 2:06:46
  Color in the game. So everything else was
• 2:06:47
  monochrome their environment. So primitive becomes generally
• 2:06:53
  uncanny as play progresses. There are no bosses in any real
• 2:06:58
  sense. Portal must simply just move
• 2:07:02
  physically through tunnels to reach, subsequent levels or
• 2:07:06
  size, varies. Wildly through the inner level
• 2:07:09
  spaces. So the story that emerges
• 2:07:14
  through portals discovery of magnetic pipes, its files.
• 2:07:19
  Mutated Factory workers who were once our friends, and
• 2:07:22
  deciphering and impressively complex code AS robbed on a
• 2:07:28
  Serie of iron axes players must collect this.
• 2:07:32
  Portion of the game was almost laughably codeplex and defeated
• 2:07:36
  many players until portal 881 posted.
• 2:07:42
  The cipher in the Columbia BBS. So I guess there was a there's a
• 2:07:47
  hacker that I got into the system and like this is how you
• 2:07:50
  get through it. Is that the foreman Under
• 2:07:55
  Pressure to increase coal production began to falsify
• 2:07:59
  reports of malfunctions and worker malfeasance in order to
• 2:08:05
  excuse low output, which incited the Silva Tech inspection
• 2:08:12
  officials were dispatched, one for each Miner and an
• 2:08:17
  extraordinary story of torture unfolds and fuzzy.
• 2:08:22
  Z & Instinct Graphics of red-coated man.
• 2:08:25
  Standing over workers inserting a small knives in the joints,
• 2:08:29
  wherever production slowed. Yeah.
• 2:08:34
  I mean, it leave. This is not a very subtle
• 2:08:37
  critique of Soviet area era in this Trio tactics.
• 2:08:42
  And as the town of car, Vena itself was devastated by the
• 2:08:47
  departure of the coal industry, more than one thesis has
• 2:08:52
  Interpreted kill switch as a political screed after after
• 2:08:58
  solving the xcode Proto finds. And assembles a tape recorder on
• 2:09:03
  which a male voice tells her that the fires of the Earth had
• 2:09:08
  risen up in their defense, excuse me, God and flowed into
• 2:09:15
  the hearts of the decrepit, free Evolution equipment, they use
• 2:09:20
  and waking them to avenge the H, it is generally assumed that the
• 2:09:24
  fires of occurs in demons, like, gassed coal, fumes, and gassy
• 2:09:30
  bodies. Inhabiting the old machines.
• 2:09:32
  The machines themselves are so big.
• 2:09:36
  That the graphics alixe elect God to only show two or three
• 2:09:42
  gear teeth or conveyor belt rather than the entire apparatus
• 2:09:47
  their machines, drove the inspectors mad, and they
• 2:09:51
  disappeared into Do Caverns with their knives.
• 2:09:55
  Only to emerge to play portal. Of course, the workers were
• 2:10:00
  often crushed and mangled in the onslaught of machines who were
• 2:10:05
  neither graceful, nor discriminating for to herself
• 2:10:08
  was knocked into a deep Chasm by a grief-stricken engine in her
• 2:10:13
  fluctuating size if it is real. And not imagine it is implied.
• 2:10:20
  That the result of the poisonous fumes and Healed here.
• 2:10:22
  So I guess her size changing was like, just the fumes in the in
• 2:10:31
  the chasm. So what follows is the most
• 2:10:37
  cryptic and intuitive? Part of the game, there's no
• 2:10:40
  logical reason to proceed in the correct way.
• 2:10:43
  And again it was the user or portal 881 who came to rescue,
• 2:10:50
  but the of the fledging fledgling Killswitch community
• 2:10:55
  in the chamber. Behind the tape, recorder the
• 2:10:57
  tape recorder that portal has to get the as a guy's name.
• 2:11:00
  The guys, you know, recording on.
• 2:11:02
  It is a Great foreigners where coal was once rendered into
• 2:11:08
  Coke. There are no clues as to what
• 2:11:12
  she is attended to do in this room players, attempted nearly
• 2:11:16
  everything from emulating herself to continuing to process
• 2:11:22
  coal as the machine. You know, has never risen up but
• 2:11:27
  as user Proto 81, Hit Upon a solution.
• 2:11:32
  And posted it in the Columbia boards.
• 2:11:34
  If Porto, ingests overall Coke, she will find her body under
• 2:11:41
  control and can't go on to fight her way out of the coal in the
• 2:11:46
  final levels of the mine which are impossible to her, you know,
• 2:11:51
  in her giant State because you know, she she changes shapes and
• 2:11:54
  sizes. Clutching the tape containing
• 2:11:59
  this extraordinary story. However, she crawls through the
• 2:12:03
  final tunnel to emerge above ground.
• 2:12:06
  The screen goes suddenly white kill switch by Design, deletes
• 2:12:10
  itself upon player, completion of the game.
• 2:12:14
  It is not recoverable by any means, all trace of it is
• 2:12:17
  removed from the user's computer.
• 2:12:19
  The game cannot be copied for all intents and purposes.
• 2:12:24
  It exists only for those playing it And then ceases to be
• 2:12:28
  entirely. One cannot replay it unlocking
• 2:12:32
  further Secrets or narrative Pathways.
• 2:12:35
  One cannot allow a another to play it.
• 2:12:38
  And perhaps most importantly, it is impossible to experience the
• 2:12:43
  game all the way to the end as both portal and gas.
• 2:12:49
  So, predictably player outcry was, you know, enormous several
• 2:12:53
  routes to solve the problem where pursued, with no real
• 2:12:57
  efficiency, the first And most common was to Simply, like by
• 2:13:02
  more copies of the game, but the Corvina group, they release only
• 2:13:07
  like five thousand copies and refuse to press further.
• 2:13:11
  Her addition. So they're like, now this is all
• 2:13:13
  we're making of this game. Kill switch was designed to be a
• 2:13:19
  unique, playing experience like reality.
• 2:13:23
  It is unrepeatable on retrievable and in logical.
• 2:13:29
  One might even say ineffable, death is final, death is
• 2:13:35
  complete. The fate of poor told in her
• 2:13:39
  beloved guests are as unknowable as our own.
• 2:13:44
  It is the desire of the car being a corporation that this be
• 2:13:49
  so and we ask our customers to respect that desire rest assured
• 2:13:54
  car Veena will continue to provide the highest quality
• 2:13:59
  games to West. And that kill switch is merely
• 2:14:02
  one among our Many Wonders and that's a quote for from the
• 2:14:06
  Corvina Corporation. So of course, this is not have
• 2:14:11
  the intended effect. The world, the word.
• 2:14:17
  Beloved Pete. Everyone's interest you know
• 2:14:22
  when they said portal in her beloved guests, gasp was
• 2:14:26
  supposed to be a demon gas is not presented in any portion of
• 2:14:31
  portals narrative. They were playing separately a
• 2:14:35
  rush to find the remaining copies of the game ensued with
• 2:14:41
  the tent of playing as gas and discovering.
• 2:14:43
  The meaning of carbine has cryptic word, the most Wheeler Z
• 2:14:47
  was a gasp when at some point become the fumes inhaled by
• 2:14:51
  portal changing her size and beginning her Adventure, some
• 2:14:56
  salt that this was wishful thinking in that if only gas
• 2:15:01
  early levels were passable, one was somehow be able to play as
• 2:15:05
  both simultaneously. However by the time by this
• 2:15:09
  time, no further copies appeared to be available in retail
• 2:15:13
  outlets Players who had yet, had not yet.
• 2:15:18
  Completed the game attempt to gas levels frequently but the
• 2:15:22
  difficulty in actual actual playing like this - I cannot wer
• 2:15:28
  say words today. Playing this big nag, what does
• 2:15:33
  that mean? It.
• 2:15:35
  No in, it can nag. If he can't do it, I can't do it
• 2:15:43
  in. Magnetic I can't I can't type
• 2:15:48
  format it because that's the word enigmatic Avatar.
• 2:15:54
  My God. Brittany, I am struggling over
• 2:15:57
  here. Oh God, and no player has ever
• 2:16:05
  claimed to have finished a game as gas one by one tool or
• 2:16:10
  portals loss. Unearthly worldcruise them back
• 2:16:14
  to her. One by one, they were compelled
• 2:16:16
  towards the finality of the vast white screen to find any copy
• 2:16:22
  usable. Today is an almost unfathomably
• 2:16:26
  rare occurrence, he still shrink-wrap, copy was sold at an
• 2:16:32
  auction in 2005 for goddamn seven hundred thousand dollars.
• 2:16:40
  I'm just going to round it up, seven hundred thousand dollars
• 2:16:43
  to somebody in Tokyo. Because it was Yamamoto it was
• 2:16:51
  entirely past is probably possible that your motives has
• 2:16:56
  the last from Lightman remaining copy of the game knowing this,
• 2:16:59
  you know, Moto had intended to open his play to all enthusiasts
• 2:17:05
  filming and uploading this process.
• 2:17:07
  You know how YouTubers do and our haunted games.
• 2:17:12
  However, to date the only film which had surfaces which had
• 2:17:17
  Just is in 1 minute and 45 second clip of a Haggard, you
• 2:17:23
  Modo at his computer. So Avatar selection screen is
• 2:17:28
  visible over his right shoulder and he's seen crying.
• 2:17:36
  And that is the end of the story.
• 2:17:38
  So there's no, there's no real end of the story apparently.
• 2:17:40
  So the Sun is up. There's a story about, you know,
• 2:17:46
  you can play two players, one is a demon, the other ones a girl,
• 2:17:50
  she Hills some vapor and she can change your shape and size.
• 2:17:55
  She wakes up in this coal. Mine, and she has to find a way
• 2:17:58
  out of there. And apparently she used to work
• 2:18:00
  there as well. The demon gas is what I'm
• 2:18:05
  assuming, he's supposed to be some type of representation of
• 2:18:11
  the coal fumes. Or you know what I mean?
• 2:18:15
  Okay. So, as soon as she inhales it,
• 2:18:18
  then she he kind of like controls her body but he can't
• 2:18:23
  use his powers. He can only use Whatever to make
• 2:18:27
  her bigger small, but yeah, it was just, it's just weird
• 2:18:34
  because people, like, as soon as they the, the carbine
• 2:18:37
  incorporation, they're like, yeah, her beloved gas, so
• 2:18:40
  they're like, oh, so they knew each other.
• 2:18:42
  So, what's going on with the story?
• 2:18:45
  And they wouldn't, you know, they wouldn't go any further on.
• 2:18:48
  It is just Very weird game that may or may not have come out and
• 2:18:58
  how it exists? Yes.
• 2:19:01
  Yes, somebody made it. If I go onto YouTube right now
• 2:19:05
  I'll fine. Oh absolutely version based off
• 2:19:08
  of the story. So there are screenshots of this
• 2:19:12
  game. And it shows you yet.
• 2:19:16
  No, there's a game. There's so many made a fan made
• 2:19:18
  game of this and it shows you screenshots of the levels that
• 2:19:24
  you can take as portal or gassed.
• 2:19:28
  And there's some, some of them are, you know, impassable.
• 2:19:31
  Some of them or passable, And I wish I could just send you this
• 2:19:37
  link. But as I can't send you pictures
• 2:19:42
  of this goddamn it. But anyway, it's it's a, it's
• 2:19:50
  very, it was very interesting because I guess it was a it was
• 2:19:57
  made as a what was it like? What's that word?
• 2:20:00
  Like a sleep? No, no Creepypasta.
• 2:20:08
  Like the story like the game is an allegory for like coal mining
• 2:20:12
  in this, in this country. Let me check.
• 2:20:17
  Yeah gotcha and how you know, coal mining destroyed you know
• 2:20:23
  Czech Republic. This town and a Czech Republic.
• 2:20:26
  In this this car being a corporation made his game about
• 2:20:29
  that. And they wanted to bring late to
• 2:20:32
  that but yeah, it's it was it's an interesting listen for
• 2:20:37
  somebody who actually does Creepypasta narrations and I
• 2:20:39
  can't do them really. Well, I'm sorry, but thank you
• 2:20:42
  for listening. It's going to be read that
• 2:20:45
  story. It's all good.
• 2:20:47
  Thanks for all the people who stay to the very end.
• 2:20:51
  Thank you so much. Remembering that wears only
• 2:20:56
  about a week and a half left until the thick dense disappear
• 2:20:58
  and then there's no more a squat And I just wanted to say thank
• 2:21:02
  you again to all of our patreon supporters.
• 2:21:05
  It's obviously patreon.com slash one Killers, get caught and I
• 2:21:08
  just wanted to say thank you to. We actually have to jamila's who
• 2:21:11
  follow us and started in December of twenty.
• 2:21:13
  Twenty-One Whitley who started in December, 20 21 Jessica in
• 2:21:18
  November as well as Gina and November Maggie who started
• 2:21:22
  subscribing and October and our oldest subscriber, who still
• 2:21:26
  listens to us. Lola Rose, thank you so much.
• 2:21:30
  And thanks for being part of this journey and helping us
• 2:21:33
  continue to make awesome things. Yeah, we'll see you next week
• 2:21:39
  and as a surprise it's a big-name know that I will be
• 2:21:43
  covering nice, guys. Have a good weekend.