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Women's Magazines, Diet Culture and Sex Advice · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to steff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I never told you production of iHeartRadio, and.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: We are coming back with an additional episode of women's
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: magazines and Dot Dot Dot because well, I have elongated
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: once again a very wide broad subject into several episodes.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: It's not going to be the same amount as religious
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: trauma episode. Thank god, it's not going to be twenty thousand.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I think I'm going to keep it at a succinct three, okay,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: because I have topics in mind, and with that, if
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: you haven't already, we would suggest going back to our
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: earlier episode on the history of women's magazines, because we
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: kind of break it down on how it began, what
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: it looked like, all of that, and even the problems
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: back then. Because for today, we are talking about the
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: state of women's magazines slash publications today, and I do
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: see publications because obviously they're like the handheld copy of
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: a magazine is less and less and you're more likely
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: going to see digital, which, funny enough, I kept running
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: into paywalls because I need to call somebody about that
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: because that was an issue anyway. Yeah, Annie, did you
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: have do you have currently or did you have at
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: any point a favorite magazine or did you even have
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: a subscription.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I looked this up because I knew we were going
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: to be talking about this. I didn't have a subscription.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I bought entertainment weekly, not infrequently if it was a
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: movie or a celebrity I like. I had a subscription
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: to Disney Adventures, which was kind of a small magazine format.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: You're not seeing what I can do, but like imagine,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: size wise, most magazines are like eight by eleven.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: This one was sort of a third of that.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's probably way off, but it was smaller, and
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I think I got it. I originally subscribed to it
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: because I loved the Ulsen twins and they were somehow
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: they were featured in it quite frequently. But I remember
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: very vividly, and I don't know if we're going to
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: talk about this in this episode of the next but
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Ryan Gosling was on the cover one time as young Hercules,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: and I had the cover. I took out like all
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: the relevant pages and saved them. But it wasn't him.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: That's that's not why I started subscribing. It wasn't him,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: But I did save all of those and I remember
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: the cover.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: So clear now.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I mean we do use a lot of magazines for work.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I think I'm still in the same, Like, if it's
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: like a Star Wars magazine, I'll it. I went through
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: a big I think Entertainment Weekly is pretty like it's
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: been the same. I have a lot of friends who
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: like seventeen, I went through a Time magazine period.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's more like if I see something like, oh
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I really want that, it's less about a subscription thing, right.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I remember Time magazine covers like nobody's business. For some reasons,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: those stand out. Kudos to the art director and the
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: photographers because they would do their thing to make sure
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: they would stand out. But then, like, I never had
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: a subscription when I was growing up, my friends did,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: so I would go over to their houses and we
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: would just go through the magazines and then like talk
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: about them. I want to say, like, I was really
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: into music more so than anything else. I remember distinctly
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: a picture of Salt and Peppa because they were one
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: of my favorite groups when I was in middle school,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: so I remember seeing them a lot. But I never
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: really had any magazines. Again, my mother had Southern living
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: in her house, and I think she had good housekeeping
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: in her house. And I think some of these subscriptions
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: were fundraising subscriptions.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you know.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: What I'm talking about. Like I remember, like that used
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: to be a thing way back when you could buy
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: wrapping paper as school fundraisers. But also you could buy
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: subscriptions of magazines for a good deal, seventeen dollars for
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: a year subscription, so that's twelve magazines.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: I brought this back a stressful memory that I'd forgotten
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: because I was one of the kids that would try
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: to sell those wrapping papers.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: It was the worst. I hated it. It's like I'm
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: a failure. I can't sell anything.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, there was this episode. I don't know
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: if anybody watched Parenthood at any point in time. They
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: are now gone, and there's some problematic things in that
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: whole show, but I really enjoyed it. And one of
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: the big episodes was that the kid was selling the
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Christmas paper for his baseball team to get uniforms and such,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: and he forgot and didn't do it, and so he
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: already had the paper, which was odd to me because
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: that was not the thing you had to do it
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: sign up for or whatever. But like uh, he yells
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: at his mom for not being rich enough to just
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: order it herself and not have to sell it. And
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: I remember thinking that was a thing. The parents would
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: be rich enough that they are the grandparents would just
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: buy it all and they wouldn't have to worry about
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: it because it was so stressful. It's like, what is
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: this anyway? Wow, that's just yeah, on the whole tangent
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: on that one. But yeah, subscription magazines were a thing
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: as well. And really I remember it being way back
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: when in some movies that there were door to door salesmen.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: He would sell these as well. So it was a thing.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: It was a racket, and now it kind of has
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: become a whole different thing with the digital world and
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: print may be dying. Slash kind of is we all
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: love it somehow. But with that some context, now that
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: we're actually talking about magazines, y'all, before we begin, we
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: are going to be talking about body and fat shaming
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: as well as body dysmorphia and sexual content in this episode,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: So Happy Valentine's Day well ahead of time. Also, there's
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of backlash that came out against women's magazines
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: not too long ago. The other there was a whole
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: reckoning in like two thousand and twenty ten. Uh. But
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: also a lot of our information comes from then, so
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: it is fairly dated. Like I said, it looks like
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: more people were likely to look into how the magazines
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: have become or can become more feminists or empowering. So
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: that's good and that's more recent, but in like the
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: late nineties. Also we have some articles from the late nineties,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: so yeah, this is pretty dated nineties, early two thousands
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: and twenty tens where we're talking about the problems with
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: magazines and women's magazines specifically.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: So just that heads up. I think they still hold
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: up because the same argument is repeating itself, and there
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: was a lot of like overlapping of social media and
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: magazines as well, so when we talk about it, especially
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: when it comes to like teen stuff, it may be interchangeable.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: A lot of the research that we saw from like
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: thesis and research papers again come from the late nineties
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: and two thousands era, early two thousands era, because again,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: like I said, there was a big record and'll be like,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: why are we doing this? Why are you still doing this? You'
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: all have a problem. So it's good to see that
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: that happened. It's sad to see it's still happening.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, ignore right now.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: A lot of when I'm checking out the grocery store,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of the times, all kind of magazines, I'm like, wow, still.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, y'all, there's the cabbage diet. Cabbage soup diet is
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: still really big, apparently because I love cabbage soup. I
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: don't do it for that sake, but I would try
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: to find the recipe. All the articles have it, and
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: I was like, what, I just like cabbage soup. What's
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: happening anyway? Yeah, and it's something to note that the
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: print in itself has faded and moved towards digital or online,
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: and we'll probably talk about that in the last episode.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say the next one is the last episode.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to convince yourself it's.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Going to happen. I've narrowed it down to the two
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: specific subjects so I don't vary, so.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, we'll see, we'll see. I would also say,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: go check out our episode we did on fanzines because
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: we did talk about some of this stuff in there.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Yes as well, but yes, okay, women's magazines today there are. Yes,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of women's magazines still and according to the
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Library of Congress, they estimate quote more than seventy five
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: thousand periodicals are published each year in the United States
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: and Canada alone, and that number swells to over one
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five thousand worldwide. Consumer magazines alone account
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: for more than twenty thousand North American titles. Women's magazines
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: have consistently ranked in the top ten magazine categories. Of course,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: this includes all the different types of magazines and the
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: articles from twenty twenty three, so the numbers are not
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: quite exact, but it's big.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: I would say it's still pretty close twenty.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Two eight, yeah, three, ten years ago or a month ago.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: We are going to kind of just delve into this
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: ugly side of women's magazine. So, like we said earlier,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: the women's magazine industry has already had some shakeups and
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: revamping what they are doing or how they were portraying
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: women overall. And we mentioned this later, but yes, this
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: is all cis heteronormative. Just go ahead and put that there. Okay,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately we will kind of dapple into it, but not really.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: So this is the way they focus it is making sure,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: women are women, and I say that sarcastically and not
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: with that belief in that conversation and that type of statement,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: and that women all want a husband. Again, obviously not
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: what we think so but this is how it's going
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: to come out. But again, we can't ignore the massive
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: impact they have had overall in general to society. We
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: talked a bit about the way early periodicals transformed women's
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: fashion and encourage women to become more in tune with
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: their habits and housekeeping, but it would continue to influence women,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: specifically when it came to body image, which quickly became
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: a moneymaker for I think all of the magazine is
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: not many, I think all of them. Yeah.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: In fact, according to a thesis done by Jamie S.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Nobles from the University of Southern Mississippi in twenty fourteen
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: discussing the depiction of women's body image and magazines from
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two to night teen ninety five, and it
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: talks about how advertisements within magazines changed over the years
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: to influence women. They talk about how body types and
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: models changed throughout history and also why that might be.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Here's a quote. The hypothesis stated that the depictions of
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: women would shift from curvy to thin women, but most
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: of the magazine advertisements depicted women as fit slash average
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties, and the ads moved on to
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: lean models as the years progressed. Although actresses like Marilyn
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Monroe were curvier and were thought to be sex symbols,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: the models in the magazines did not reflect her type
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: of voluptuousness. There were fewer depictions of full figured women
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: in the magazines than any other category. Most of the
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: models were fit slash average until the nineteen seventies, and
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: then the number of lean models spiked. Of the one
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: hundred and eighty images viewed, lean was the most found
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: model size, with ninety of the one hundred eighty models
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: perceived as lean. Fit slash average had the second highest number,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: with sixty six of the advertisement scene as healthy athletic build.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, of course, as voluptuous and curvy as Marilyn Monroe was,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: she would not be considered a plus or large size.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: In fact, her waist size would have been more like
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: a small or even an extra small, and one site
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: said even smaller than that, like it wasn't even on
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: a category of what we would see today. And though
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: she was medium at the top, according to the clothes
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: that people that the researchers have measured, and her hips,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: and she did have hips, she would not have been
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: considered plus size today at all. Again, many want to
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: claim that because they says she wore size sixteen, she
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: wears six sixteen, that they accord to French clothing, and
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: most of her clothing were tailored to her. But yes,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: she was curvy, sure on a different standard. Like that's
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: that's a whole different conversation. I think waste size was
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: typically twenty four inches small, and it got as big
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: as maybe twenty seven. And from what I also found,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: like it says that she uh probably weighed from anywhere
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: from like one hundred and four to one hundred and fourteen,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: and the most you's ever gotten was one forty And
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: for her being I think five to four that's not huge,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: that's not plus size. Let's just we just we're just
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: gonna put that there in Some of the changes in
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: who was being advertised or what was being advertised actually
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: has a lot to do with trending diet culture. Diet
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: culture has been around for a long time, to the
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Greek days. They said because the whole athletic look and
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: all of that, and is a money making machine. We've
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: talked about this with like influencers and all of that.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: This is a money maker according to different reports. Uh
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: And I will say I was very confused and maybe
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I don't understand the verbiage between like value market versus
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: whatever else, because the numbers were everywhere, So I was
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: like what And again this could have something to do
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: with they only had something that was specific to weight
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: management versus things like food, which even though they may
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: not be diet culture, they use and use that influence anyways,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: like milk probably could still be considered that level as well.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: So who knows. But with that estimated value of the
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: dieting industry, slash market is as high as over four
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: hundred billion dollars and seemingly increasing every year obviously, although
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: it did take a little bit of a dip when
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: a few years ago the whole body positivity became more
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: popular and more accepted, which I miss But then we
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: now have the usage of products like ozimbic, which is
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: being used as a cure all for weight loss and
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: a giant money maker as well. It's no secret that
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: the magazine industry has had a hand with grown this
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: specific culture. Here's another quote from that same thesis. So
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: why did women's bodies depictions should from fit average to lean?
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: The researchers believes that the key to that is the
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: fitness exercise boom of the nineteen seventies. By the seventies,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Americans awareness of fitness grew, and with that the role
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: of exercise in American lives expanded, and exercise became part
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: of the recreational pastimes. Jogging was one of the most
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: popular forms of fitness. For example, the New York Marathon,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: which had previously only had approximately three hundred participants in
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy two, expanded to include more than eleven thousand
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: competitors in nineteen seventy nine. With the influence of the
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Women's Movement and Title nine, an act that imposed gender
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: equality in sports opportunities in educational organizations, a large number
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: of women took up sports for the first time in
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Right and it continues. The average size of men and
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: women continued to rise during this time, and obesity numbers
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: exploded in the nineteen eighties. As food is made more
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: readily available, a fewer people cook at home, turning America
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: into a fast food nation. Because of the fitness boom
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: and the increasing waistband of Americans, the diet industry takes
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: off and by the nineteen eighties is a multi billion
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: dollar a year industry. Within the structure of that industry,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: there is a great deal at stake to keep women
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: hooked into the obsession about their beauty, their weight, and
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: their dieting practices. Advertisements that show women who are impossibly
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: thin and beautiful despite their rising obc rates are showing
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: women what they should aspire to become. Women try to
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: achieve the impossible, and so they buy the diet products
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: that only guarantee a temporary solution to their weight problems.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: When the diet is over, the women will most likely
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: gain the weight they lost plus some. The women then
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: see the perfect women in the magazine adds and experience
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: body dissatisfaction and decide to purchase more diet products. Thus
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: an endless circle is created. The fact that diets do
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: not work is the best kept secret in the diet industry.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Only long term lifestyle changes will help women to lose
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: weight and stay healthy by presenting an ideal difficult to
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: achieve and maintain, the cosmetic and diet product industries are
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: assured of growth and profits. The shift the researchers saw
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: from fit slash average women to lean women could be
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: rooted in an economic ploy to keep women reaching for
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the unattainable.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Right, And I think that's such a big emphasis. This
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: is a ploy. Yeah, which why the back and forth
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: fat diets are huge. Atkins not a sponsor does not
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: want you to keep that weight off. They want you
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: to continue to buy their products and tell you that's
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: the only way you're going to maintain that way.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: There's so many things, of course, and we're going to
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: talk a little bit about this later, Like this can
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: also create dangerous habits, which is really really unfortunate for
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: later times. And I will say I bought into this
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: and sometimes still do still do because I am so
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: insecure and I've been taught I need to be skinny,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: and skinny means being a size three, which is impossible
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: for me, like it will never happen, but for some
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: reason in my head, I must, And therefore the pills
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: that I see on self magazines is definitely gonna help me.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: It is not.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, it's really it's effective. Get it in
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: your head and you think, well, if I just do
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: this and do this, but I remember doing it, especially
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: like in college.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: And it was exhausting. It was exhausting, and like the
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: payout wasn't much.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: And that wasn't I grew up hungry in high school
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: and college, and I am so sad that I missed
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: out on food. Right, I literally ate pasta and that
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: was one time of day. And I still I think
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I've trained myself so badly to not eat that I
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: don't eat. And I know you know that level as well.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: I've gotten better about it. I've gotten better. But if
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I'm busy or if I'm overwhelmed, that's the first thing
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: to go, yeah, because that's something I can control. But
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: we know that's so with unattainable goals that continue to
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: motivate tempt women. Other very specific magazines also came into play.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Magazines like Shape, Women's Health, and again Self and other
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: such magazines are riddled with adverts that promise the perfect
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: body in a short amount of time. According to another
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: research paper that was published in Turkey, the influence of
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: magazines like Women's Health and Cosmo continue to not only
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: perpetuate the perfect body, but also the idea that perfection
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: is only found within westernized standards. Here's the quote from
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: that paper. The magazine often advises women to watch their
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: weight all the time by eating certain light mils and
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: drinking certain healthy drinks, helping to detox the body. Nevertheless,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: the magazine often shows dieting as such an easy thing
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: which women do not have to worry about by getting
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: into stress. As Kim and Lennon, which was a researcher previously,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: have mentioned. However, dieting is in fact a painful thing,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: especially for women who have excess weight. Therefore, the magazine
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: always puts ideal beauty standards in front of women, and
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: it expects them to reach those high standards by looking
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: good and young. Therefore, the female readers are implicitly advised
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: that they need to groom, shop, diet, do fitness, and
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: take care of their bodies to preserve a perfect image
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: that is related with that white ideal beauty. And that's
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: we don't really talk about this at all in that level.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: We do talk a little bit about the fact that
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: it is oppression, This type of culture is oppression, but
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: the fact that the majority of what we see are
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: all until recently, like Kim Kardashian and like hip hop
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: stars have kind of changed that a little bit. I
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: feel like Korean pop stars have now brought it back
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: to this Western idea that you have to be skin
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: a skinny skinny, as one woman was quoted saying, being
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: wraith like is ideal, and I think that's kind of
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: the issue. And by the way, we also are not
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: talking at all about the cosmetic industry, which, like I said,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I picked and choose because we did talk about that
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: before with influencers and such as that. But yes, the
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: other if if there was a chart, I'm sure it
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: was like forty five percent diet culture of forty cosmetics
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: and ten percent good luck fashion.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding, yeah, fashion, because I if you want
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: to go back and listen to some episodes we've done.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: But like things like shaving, that was largely due to
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: the fabric that was popular at the time, and it
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: was advertised magazines like if you want to wear this fabric,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: you have to shave. So a lot of things like
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: that and also oddly enough past the co host leave
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: it was Christian Caroline. It was a long time ago
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: talked about Barbie. One of the reasons Barbie is so thin,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: it's cheaper to make clothing for someone who's very thin, right,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: So it's also very beneficial for the fashion industry.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Right in general. And that's the part is that we
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: also don't talk about this, but I found an article
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: upon article about talking about the fact that being in
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: this die culture, being thin gives more advantages to this
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: idea of thin privilege, gives more advantages to those who
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: are thin, typically white as well as Yes, it's cost
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: effective because the clothing is cheaper as well, because for
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: some reason, anything that is beyond a size eight needs
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: to be ten dollars extra, if not fifty.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and they should be. We'll put a big
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: asterisk on that because there's also been things that are like,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: what are you doing It's not really yeah, but anyway,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: that is there what they.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: Have said, Yes, yes, yes, okay.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: But to go back to this research article we've been quoting,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: they continue with this warning, however, the women who over
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: exercise and diet unfortunately engage in unhealthy behaviors such as
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: eating disorders as a result. In other words, the magazine
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: expects Turkish women to transform their bodies to a lighter
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: size and resemble the Western ideal of beauty, which not
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: only means culturally assimilating the curvy body, but also anticipating
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: to invite diseases such as anorexia or bolimia in the
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: long term.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, you know there's been cultures where I'm like, yeah,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: these are my people. I want to be here because
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: my body looks more like them. Yeah, and they like
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: me better because of that.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I have to say, I unfortunately witnessed this in other
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: countries where people will tell me, oh, I'm not going
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: to eat for a couple of days, and I'd be like, what, like, oh, yeah,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: I need to lose weight, and they would just say
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: it and I would be like, oh.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Oh right, this whole level with again, like Europeans, no
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: hate to any Europeans, but like they will talk about
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: the fact that they can't they can't look as big
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: as Americans or whatever whatnot, and so what they do
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: is not eat for a few days and that's absolutely normal.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Like that's like, that's so sad, don't you miss it?
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Also, like no offense, I've done it, but it
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: is not gonna last.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: It's not gonna Yeah, you're only causing yourself trouble and headaches,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: literal headaches. Yes, And while we are here, let's just
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: remind ourselves that though we are coming back to the
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: idea that dieting is good and being skinny is the
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: only way to exist, yes, it's a sarcasm, it's not,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: And that this movement in itself is anti like just
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: anti everything in so many ways. Yes.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: From the National Alliance for Eating Disorders. Diet culture quote
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: encompasses the collective beliefs and practices that promote the pursuit
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: of weight loss as the ultimate marker of health and wellbeing.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: It is a pervasive force that permeates various aspects of
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: our lives, from media portrayals of ideal bodies to the
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: messages we receive from friends, family, and even healthcare professionals.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Diet culture often emphasizes the importance of adhering to strict
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: eating regimens, promoting quick fixes, and advocating for the thin ideal.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: It's based on fallacies like one food is better than another,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: People who are thin are healthier, people who are thin
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: or more attractive. Higher weight bodies are a result of
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: poor health choices. Individuals have full control over their health
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: and appearance right.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: And in that article it talks about health ism, which
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: is this narrative which a lot of healthcare professionals have done,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: which blame everything on being overweight and ignoring the actual
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: health and problems, and it is anti obviously. There was
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: an interesting TikTok video too of this young young baby
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: girl who calls herself a life coach saying that tomatoes
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: make you fat. That was it and she I think
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: was trying to say when she was apologizing later on
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: was everybody went after her, was that it hurts her
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: stomach and because of the ascid and they're like, that's
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: completely different. That is completely different from they make you fat. Okay,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: calm down. But yeah, so with that, I mean it's
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: it's cultures like this that feed into that kind of narrative.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: And yeah, this culture literally demonizes fatness. And again this
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: is from the National Alliance. With this connection to Christianity
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: and morality, which we didn't talk about. We did kind
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: of talk about being the perfect housewife. That means having
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: the perfect body. The thought is the whole keeping the
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: body clean and holy or keeping it yeah, and keeping
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: it tight for your spouse like they meant to you
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: can't be getting that pot belly. I've heard that said.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Literally a pastor, a preacher like his last name is Graham,
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: apparently he's there is the founder of Grant.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: Dont on this whole subject, oh my gosh.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: But he was one of those that preached this idea
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: that our body and being skipping a meal is for God.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Of course we didn't talk about this in the ruligious
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: trauma God I just haunts me, I swear. But yeah,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: the idea of fascinating which wasn't holy idea for sure,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: but is used by many people to lose weight.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and we have discussed this before. This is
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: ingrained in our culture to a point that I think
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of people don't realize. We've had listeners write
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: in and be like you were saying something terrible like
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: people should lose weight, Like okay, but just real quickly,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Graham created Graham crackers to like stop people from masturbating.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, and he told me does yeah.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: And now he hated sugar and he basically thought you
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: should like not experience food really if you really sin,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: it was a moral issue.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: And now grabcrackers.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: I'm so much sugar in them, and it gives me joy.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: I wonder what his family thinks of that legacy.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, if they're getting the money, they probably don't care.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, but like, are they ashamed of that legacy
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: or are they what I mean, you know what I mean?
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Sure?
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: And it's also like you know, I do get joy
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: out of it, but it is we also have a
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: kind of whole issue with sugar in this country and
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: what's added, so you know, but it does give me
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: joy that he's like in his grave.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Different conversation, But f y about Graham crackers, because what
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: do we do but go on tangents. In the first rate,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: my teacher, who was one of my favorite teachers, would
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: have us give us graand crackers and then give us
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: frosting and let us cover it with frosting and candy,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: and that would be our snack. And boy did I
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: frost both sides.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, you use it to build gingerbread houses.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: And it's great, it's true, but I remember that snack
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: like nobody's business, thanks miss right. And with that, this
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: this diet culture actually supports system of oppression. So when
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: we say where it is anti I mean it's anti uh,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: it is anti black. And we've talked about it before,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: how this movement, how uh, the fat phobia is real
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: racist ideals, especially when it comes to oppressing people and
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: who it oppresses and how they use it against people
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: of color, specifically black people. It holds up the patriarchy
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: because once again, this is for the sake of men,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: oftentimes the way you look, especially when we talk about
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: looking your best for your husband, for this, for your
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: for your next day, for prom all recipes.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: And then it reinforces once again the idea of thin privilege,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: which exists. And people may say, like we talked about
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: have we ever talked about pretty privilege and thin privilege?
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Again, it's a weird thing though, because I know we
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: talked about it on the video series.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Okay, Okay, maybe we need to come back,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: because that's like it keeps coming back around in that
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: conversation about who gets what and why and who gets
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: the raises and who who gets hired? And these are
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: those conversations. Yeah, and it's an industry that has made
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: billions of dollars on things that don't work or that
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: don't last and are not realistic, and uses your insecurities
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: based on what society dictates to you is good or
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: is the best?
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, and it's It can be heartbreaking when you know
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: someone who's doing it and they're like eating this one
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: food and they'll tell you, like, I've heard this one
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: will work.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Right according to this magazine. I got these recipes and
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I'm going to stick to it. Yeah, two almonds for breakfast,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: and I'm like that measuring stuff.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Wow, Oh my god, Oh my god, and the alliance
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: ends with quote. This diet culture fosters negative body image,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: and it perpetuates unrealistic beauty standards and a serious weight stigma.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: This toxic mindset contributes to body dissatisfaction and low self esteem. Additionally,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: diet culture significantly increases the risk of developing eating disorders,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: as the obsession with food restriction and control can trigger
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: disordered eating patterns and severe psychological distress. The harmful impact
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: of diet culture on both short term well being and
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: long term mental and physical health is the stark reminder
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: of the urgent need to challenge and dismantle this harmful ideology.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Right, So, yes, that's not necessarily about magazines, but just
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: the reason why we think this is probably and even
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: though it seems harmless to have five exercises to tone
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: up your abs. It does contribute to this culture. So
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: just as a reminder, be careful. Oh and with all
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: that out of the way, let's talk about how magazines
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: in general have really really influenced women in sex and
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: the different ideas. Yes, again, if you're hanging out with
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: kids on this one, we're gonna read some things. I
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: think it might make you blush.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Annie, I'm like pre blushing just thinking about it.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: So I believe you're right.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: So FYI, you might want to pause and take the
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: young one out or put EarPods in, however you need to.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: And I have to admit that, as someone who lived
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: in the world of purity culture, I believed in it.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: Y'all.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Annie, I didn't tell you this. My mother brought over
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: a tubfull of my childhood things. She's moving me out officially,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: for real, for real. You've got a house. Taking this right,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: and in it on the top, I find a certificate.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: It says marriage certificate, and it is my marriage certificate
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: to Jesus WHOA So when I say when I say
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: I was in that culture and it is pristinely kept,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: my mother made sure that it was kept all perfect
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: on top, unlike unlike me living in sin today, which
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: she has accepted and loves my partner. But anyway, when
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: I say yes, I lived in that purity culture, I
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: honestly didn't know much about sex until probably late twenties.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: And though of course I understood the general concept. Yes,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: I have seen things. I've seen movies. I would often
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: turn to different magazines like Cosmo, like Glamour, Red Book
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: and even seventeen to find out what men liked. Yeah, yeah,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: those those got me. Those articles got me. If I
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: had a question about oral sex, I would often see
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: an article and in those magazines, and I would try
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: to take as many notes as possible. Annie, Yes, I
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: heard did like, oh you do this and that, and
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: that's why that seems weird. But okay whatever, And I
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: know I'm not the only one because that sold. I
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: will say that that like we might have hidden in
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: and we might have giggled and not said it out loud,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: but we sure did read it from relationship advice on
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: how to keep a man wanting more. Magazines were a
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: reference source for so many, so many women. In fact,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: magazines are often how young people would educate themselves on
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: those embarrassing or even panicked situations. Margaret Singer was actually
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: arrested in nineteen fourteen for her book, but also for
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: her articles in The New York Call that covered topics
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: of sex, birth control, and STIs for so many people
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: who desperately needed that information.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: And later in nineteen sixty, after the debut of the
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Playboy magazine, which is a whole different conversation, the magazine
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: featured its Advisor column, offering advice not only on sex,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: relationships and life as well. And by the way, according
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: to a Vice article and a podcast released by iHeart
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: and Crooked Media titled Stifft, the first ever erotic magazine
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: for women was published in nineteen seventy three by the
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: same dude who started Penthouse, Bob Guccioni, which was titled Viva,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: and according to that article, they quote paired feminist writing
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: from women like Betty Friedan and Erica Jong and stories
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: on anti rape groups and female circumcision with full frontal
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: male nudity and frank sex advice as the first erotic
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: women's magazine and embodied the fight to push forth the
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: conversation about women's sexuality amid the patriarchal influence of the decade.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: And in that article is including the actual creator, Bob Guccione,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: who we know is interesting. And though it was acceptable
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: for with gay magazines at the time to talk openly
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: about sex and relationships, it wasn't so much for ladies magazines.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: It took a little while later for the first one
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: to pop up in nineteen sixty five in the Cosmo
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: magazine the then editor in chief Helen Gurley Brown, which
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: she has a really great quote about why wouldn't every
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: woman want to be a feminist? Which I was like, yes,
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: come on, now, she may have been one of our people's,
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: kind of a white woman of our people's, but you
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: know what I mean. But she was the then editor
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: in chief, and she revamped the magazine from being geared
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: toward housewives to more so single career ladies and published
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: an article on birth control pills in her first credited
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: issue of the magazine. So she was ready to go.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: She was ready to go talking about all these things,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: and more magazines started following suit with the articles written
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: by the opposite sex to teach the other sex how
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: to satisfy or how to keep their relationships attacked. So
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Oftentimes they would feature men to tell women whatever the
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: advice was, and then vice versa. For men's magazines, they
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: would have women come on and give advice as well,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: so you know things happen. Many famous examples are still
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: talked about today from Dear Abby, which is more wholesome,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: but did have questions about relationships that she would talk
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: about to writers like Candace Bushnell from Sex and the
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: City fame, who wrote for The New York Observer in
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: her advice.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Here's the quote from get Me Giddy dot com, which
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: is the sexual health related site. Thank you, Samantha for
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: having me say this. In the late nineties and early
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: two thousands, less historically raunchy women's magazines began adding sex
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: to their usual topics of coverage in order to attract
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: more readers. Ladies Home Journal printed its first Behind Closed
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Doors sex column in two thousand, and Red Book began
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: running it sex column Red Hot Sex that same year.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Soon sex wasn't just a topic reserved for magazines known
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: for their edginess. It was an expected part of mainstream
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: women's publications. Men's magazines underwent a similar shift, with magazines
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: like Esquire and GQ, both founded in the thirties and
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: originally focused on fashion, increasingly covering sex.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, So I was just really excited that you
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: got to say the name of that site, get megiddy
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: dot com, which some of a really helpful site. But
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: I was like, what, And because I can't resist a
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: good read through of ridiculous things, here's a few of
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: the worst sex tips Annie, he's already blushing. Of the
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: worst sex tips from women's magazines, according to Mackenzie Z. Kennedy,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: who blessed us with these quips seven years ago. So
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: as a seven year old post for Filthy, So here's one.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Bring your lover on your food shopping excursion. View it
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: as sentual foreplay. You can have a lot of fun
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: caressing and gently squeezing foods and inhaling their aromas. The
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: conversation should be entertaining too, And I will say, I
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: guess aie, you had a kind of related thing with food,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: so maybe maybe.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Also look go back to your episode we did on
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: the movie Fresh.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: Sometimes this doesn't work out, oh lord.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Because they didn't have all the grocery sing, didn't they?
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: I forgot about that. Okay, here's another one. Make two
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: fists around a shaft, and twist them in opposite directions
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: as hard as you can under this advice, Kennedy wrote,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: this really bad sex tip has been inspiring people to
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: write about bad sex tips because it's literally telling you
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: to give your partner an Indian rugburn on the most
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: sensitive part of his body. I don't think that's comfortable.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: The next one is firmly hold the bottom of his
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: shaft in one hand and slowly push it towards the base.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Imagine you're pushing his penis into his body. So again,
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's that effective. Here's another one.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Take a tennis ball and roll it with a slight
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: pressure between his shoulders and over his butt to help
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: him release pent up sexual energy. Got to bring a
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: tennis ball into it.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: I guess you're too lazy.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: To do anything else. And then the next one is
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: very softly bite the skin of his scrotum. I feel
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: like they could go very wrong, very very wrong. You
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: maybe he enjoys it and it says, And lastly, making
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: him a snack after sex. It doesn't have to be
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: a gourmet mill. A simple grilled cheese or milk and
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: cookies will do.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: A simple grilled cheese or milk and cookies.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: You know, the level of like it just boom down
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: to serve him. Thanks, and this will make it go
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: make a sandwich woman. I'm so sorry for that. It's true,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: but it's essentially that a statement I feel like. So yes,
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: of course we don't. We're not to get into all
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: of it. And I'm sure, again this is seven years ago,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: so I can't imagine what else is out there. I
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: wrote some of these nows. I actually I've heard the
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: shaft ones just so you know, which I think is
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: quite hilarious. It's such a romance novel term that is fantastic.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: And again, though weest with some of these ridiculous bits
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: of advice, there is a real concern with some of
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: the information that is being spread. Although on the positive side,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: having popular publications open up conversations about women learning to
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: enjoy sex or learning to explore sexual desires is a
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: plus and for a long time unheard of. It has
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: helped to destigmatize women's sexuality and even taught some men
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: about women's anatomy that they may not have understood. Hello Glitterius.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: But there have been problems as well. According to one article,
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: some feel that women's magazines aren't celebrating being sexually open,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: but rather pushing women to have degrading sex and calling
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: it IMpower. Now, I'm gonna be transparent here. This article
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: that I found written in evmagazine dot com seems as
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: I was reading it seems to be leaning very heavily
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: into the more like coming back to femininity, and it
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: kept saying that idea, which seems to be code for
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: like a conservative media, conservative think tank. I think I
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: do think there's a point here. Young girls are given
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: an embellished idea that they're being told that everyone and
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: every woman enjoy wild sex and are scared to set
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: boundaries for themselves. So I definitely think that's a conversation
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: where we don't have enough of that. We've come so
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: far sometimes to being sexually liberated, which is amazing, to
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: forgetting the part about consent, which we have talked about
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: previously in Boundaries. That was one of our book clubs too.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Of our book clubs actually wasn't it Come As You Are?
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: And the Ace book as well, because we have not
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: really pounded that into the head of like what consent?
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: When can you stop? And all those conversations and being
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: kind of so open to the idea that we're not
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: communicating to the younger generations of what that means. So
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: I do think there is some thought to that, as
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: well as the fact that women are told this is
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: what's happening, and this we were all doing this. Like
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: I've heard so many stories of men asking for threesomes
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: and they don't want necessarily want it, but being told
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: this is what people do so they just go with it,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: and being uncomfortable with it, so all of those things.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: I think it definitely has that point. So many of
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: the magazines lean into the pleasing a man idea, so
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: confusing liberation to non stop sescapades again, and the fact
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: that you have no choice or you have no power
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: to say no to any of these things or to stop,
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: like even if you were enjoying it to a certain
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: point and being able to have that communication. So I
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: think that is a big conversation of that. But the
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: article I'm referring to here also had an article titled
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: porn turned me by sexual and ruin my relationship, So
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: I feel like that's very yeah, weighty and very obvious,
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: as well as how to catch a husband, So you know,
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: watch out what you read. They had some good points.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: I will not discredit that there. I would not take
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: everything they said as right in fact, so just on
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: the notes.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: Yes for sure. Yeah.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: So coming back to the original point, there is misinformation
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: that can happen with sex advice given from a magazine article.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: As one writer states in Dame Magazine, a walk through
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: social media can illustrate just how deep the notion that
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: women aren't big on sex or orgasm runs. While women
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: fake orgasms, says a common meme, men fake entire relationships.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Other prevalent humor suggests that the best way to turn
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: a woman on is through house cleaning, unless a guy
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: our gal does so, naked mopping induced arousal is unlikely.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Stress relief is important, of course, and if helping the
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: chores or other tasks alleviates it, terrific. But I've noticed
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: significantly more stress inducing this in the context of female
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: sexuality than girlfriends complaining about dirty dishes. And yes, this
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: is talking about the whole women having orgasms thing, which
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: we have discussed before at a links. And though this
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: article was written in twenty fifteen, we are still talking
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: about that and finding that misinformation today.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, men are getting on podcasts saying women don't
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: have orgasms, so or can't have orgasms, that's not biological.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: So you know we're still having that conversation. Yes and yeah.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: As we mentioned before, there's both good and bad when
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: it comes to the sex relationship bets within magazines, and
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: research seems to back that up. According to Kristen Mark,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: who was a therapist and professor, after doing a short
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: survey and readthrough of a popular women's magazine, specifically Cosmopolitan,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: she concludes these findings suggest that women's magazines such as
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Cosmo has potentially mixed effects. The impact is potentially problematic
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: when women, after brief exposure, are less likely than those
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: exposed to the control to believe premital sex intercourse is risky,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: though it doesn't have to be risky. Use condoms, practice negotiation,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: communicate with your partner, and make sure it's consensual. But
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: the short term impact of Cosmo can also be empowering
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: for women when after brief exposure, they're more likely than
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: those exposed to the control to believe that women should
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: be assertive in prioritizing their sexual desires for their osake,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: but not for male partners.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I think it's also important that again, we
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: have no like, we don't have good sexual education in
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: this country. And you know, places like Florida are banning
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: the Dictionary because it has the definition of sex in it.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: So if you have something like this, it can.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Be it can be really like you never hear about it,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: and that's kind of it's unfortunate because it can be problematic,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: but it is also okay, maybe I can like this thing,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I agree, it's sort of a there's pluses
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: and negatives, and of course if you couldn't tell yes,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: this is very heteronormative. The lack of information and advice
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: offered to the queer community was very blatant, going back
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: to that get Me Giddy dot com article, they wrote.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: In the years following the publication made a point to
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: include more empowering and inclusive sex articles with LGBTQ perspectives
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: and advice geared toward feminist Glamour similarly did away with
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: content focused on what guys think, including a columnist by
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: the name of Jake to emphasize sex advice focused on
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: women's empowerment, and they continue Still the LGBTQ community has
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: been largely underrepresented in sex advice columns, though some writers
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: have recently stepped up to fix that. In twenty seventeen,
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: John Paul JP Brammer started the sex and love advice
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: column O La Poppy in Out magazine to provide guidance
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: to queer people who don't have the same access to
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: information about their sexuality online as straight CIS people. Secy
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Blanchard similarly began her column MTF and DTF to talk
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: about the little discussed experiences of dating and sex from
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: a trans woman's perspective.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Right In research paper titles Narrative Analysis of Sexual Etiquette
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: and teen magazines, the authorites other than brief mentions of
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: masturbation in seventeen lesbian dreams in Mademoiselle, bisexual men who
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: put their field partners at Risk and Glamour, and one
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: story in Mademoiselle about a woman trying to save a
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: gay man from being gay. We found no representations of
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: homosexuality or masturbation that indicate these could be appropriate expressions
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: of sexuality. While there's also nothing which condemn these sexual expressions,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: their absence could be seen as very limiting or isolating
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: by young women with these interests. Again note this was
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: actually written in nineteen ninety eight. So yeah, when I
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: say some of these are really dated, they are. But
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: the lack of information is something that should be recognized
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: and is oftentimes not seen in larger publications. Like we
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: just talked about the get megiddy dot com was like
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: a twenty twenty article, so it's not been long and
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: it's still very unrepresented. And the things that we do
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: see are specific to queer culture instead of being in
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: the popular publications. And that article is obviously specific to
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: teen magazines as it was titled. Like I said, I
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: have read my fair share of sex and relationship advice
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: from different teen magazines, which we will delve into in
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: the next episode. And honestly, again, all this information is
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: a bit overwhelming, with a little with very little to
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: offer in like all the contexts, the way we have
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: to search for things is within itself. A lot of
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: times they call themselves outs. I will give them that,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: like Lamberer will call themselves out. Cosmo has called themselves out.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: You know, they've really changed their tone in the last
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: five years, which again it's gonna be about in the
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: next episode, but for today, we're going to pause here.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I have done exactly what I didn't want
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: to do make a three part thay. Apologies y'all, but hey,
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: this is good stuff.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: I like how you say three part shut it.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: I'm determined.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, Well, finally I'm gonna finally reveal the
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: countents of my Ryan Gossling shock, and.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: I'm very excited.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Is sitting on this outline taunting me?
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: Oh it's chaunting me too, daunting all of us.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Well, if you have any.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: Thoughts about this, I mean, we would love to hear them.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: I think I might go flip through some of my
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: I still have some magazines. Oh, just see what's in there.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: I have to find some quizzes from those old school magazines,
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: because there's some I remember taking those, like what kind
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: of man are you supposed to be? With all those?
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: I gotta find one of those.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think the old Horo scipts could be fun.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, those like like fashion like flow chart things.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, us color salads.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll have to come back maybe for a Monday mini.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: Not not not part beautiful.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I will help you with this.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: Well, listeners, if you have any thoughts about any of that,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: or like, yes, any old magazines you want to share
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: or magazine. Memories you want to share, please let us know.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: You can email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: I Never told You. We have a tea public store
• 52:30
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• 52:32
  Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks, it's always to our super producer
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Christina or excited to producer My and our contributor Joey.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks to you for listening Stuff Never Told
• 52:40
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• 52:42
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• 52:43
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