Latest / Ben Taylor Podcast / David Kneen | Cornerstone Crew Management | Ben Taylor Podcast
Transcript
- Hi everybody, welcome to the Ben Taylor podcast, the home and marine industry insights. Today we're focusing on crew management. I'm here with David Neen. Welcome to the podcast. Good to see you. Thank you, Ben. So let's have some context, a bit of background. Who are you? Where have you been? What have you done? Right, well, yeah, obviously said I'm David Neen. I'm director and head of crew employment of Cornerstone Crew Management. And yes, we employ super yacht crew. Personally, I've been in background in the finance sector. So I had 15 years in the finance sector before I moved into yachting. And I've been with Cornerstone for the last six years. And what was it like coming from finance to yachting? It wasn't such a big transition because the side I was in looked after the ownership structures. So you're still familiar with the industry and that whole unique structure and sector? Yeah, just on the different side of it now. It's more rewarding than the finance side because you're actually dealing with tangible assets like people and individuals and you're making a difference on their lives sometimes. I was going to say, you strike me as someone who just cares about people's welfare. so to be looking after them from a hr perspective in all these quite complex scenarios to be honest on board on board yachts yeah it's just a good sense of purpose as well as a good business so happy days yeah i'll find when when a crew member has a problem it's you know it's a genuine problem it's something's gone wrong in their life or there's a problem so if you can help them and whatever the resolution is come to that resolution and they've got a smile on the face, well then I've got a smile on my face. I've done my job basically. So if the crew are happy, the captain's happy, like you said before, it makes the owner happy. And just quickly, in terms of a scope of the crew management that you can help with, what is involved in that? What's included? It's literally everything. I can go through a long list, so it's like the employment, the setting up, setting up the crew member on the system, setting up the contracts of employment, the SEAs, helping with travel, helping with visas, helping with insurance. It is properly, you've got a crew member on board, we're going to look after all that, just the reality of employing them. Yeah, it's like any other business on land, you have a HR department which takes care of all these things. Well, You need that as well, but they're all at sea. Yeah, but they need someone to to get in contact with if they've got a need So and we encourage all our captains all the managers to yeah, and they need that expertise The frustrating thing I keep all coming across is oh well, it's the captain's responsibility or so someone else's responsibility You kind of think well a captain's very very good managing a vessel that's fine but they've got enough to do with that they're not an employment law expert no they're not in finance they don't have that background so that kind of support becomes really really valuable really useful when you said that's that's the word support it is support of all kinds you know we come across different things all the time things that we've never came across before different problems and it's okay we'll find a way you know we'll we'll find that we'll find an answer to it we'll do research if needs be and we will we will help you out yeah and you'll tap into your expertise because you've probably seen it on board another boat before yeah yeah it's always there's there's normally similarities you know um but yeah it's just diligent and you've you've got to within the sort of first five to ten minutes of speaking to a crew member really figure out what the actual problem is yeah is it a genuine genuine problem or is it just yeah and how serious is it what is sensible yeah and then you just coach them through so but no it's you know it's it's fulfilling it's rewarding for me you know and i work with a great team as well back in the office so you know allows me to do little I suppose the unique or the useful position of Cornerstone is an independent party that can say, okay, here's what's really best for the crew. And how does that work? Why does that help being so independent? Like I said before, every situation is different. So having the knowledge to a questions raised, it could be anything to do with, I don't know, even questions on tax. We're not tax experts, but we know the people who, to refer the crew to, to go and get the tax advice. So basically anything HR. So if you were a business in the UK and you had 200 employees, there's a HR department. So that's who you go to when you need something, you know, personal something. Well, that's us in the crew and industry. So it's anything HR. Come to me with a query. So what's a typical situation? where the crew are looked after in a different way and then by engaging in Cornerstone they kind of see a different way of operating. What's the difference there? I think our SP is we don't operate as a call centre, if you like. We have a direct line of contact. So with every captain that we deal with, any manager they've got. a direct line of contact it's like a hotline they know who they're speaking to they know that person knows the boat they know that person knows the crew so it's a familiarity familiarity as well and um the relationships you forge with the the manager of the captains goes a long way yeah especially when things go wrong especially when you need the relationship and it's when they need you and they phone you when you answer and there's no hesitation it's not oh who are you what boat are you on yeah oh right okay i don't deal with that one and this guy's at the other end of the phone going i need help yeah you know it's captain david you're on board setting your anomaly right okay i get it let's go they have context right from the right from the start yeah so on first name terms with most of the captains and it's like yeah we're here to help you know never stress just give us a call and um we're 24 7. Emergencies. I bet you enjoy that one. Please, emergencies. Why does everything go wrong at 3am? It's sods law, it's the weekend, isn't it? It's sods law, it's the weekend. So the only difference with Cornerstone is we're not, we basically have a one yacht, one company policy. So we operate limited liability companies for each yacht we manage with its own bank account. for the owners there's no cross-contamination of assets there's no cross-contamination of funds salary funds yeah so it's everything's completely separate and we think that's gives extra security for the owners right because if it just becomes really clean from an accounting perspective auditing all that kind of thing it says here's exactly what's happened on the boat yeah with your crew it's one account it's one company yeah it's there that's it yeah so that's a great benefit i think and it does give a lot of reassurance to the owners can you tell us a story just like uh where you know so something's happened on board a boat that perhaps shouldn't happen and where you've really been able to help where it's just yeah you know you're in the right position they go look this situation's it's taking place you wouldn't believe it yeah i've got to be careful because it's such a small industry and um i'm not gonna be dropping any name but yeah that's fine yeah there's various there's various things from um crew members being injured and not being able to continue and wanting to go home and be repatriated and then being told they're not allowed and we're like, well, for one, that's completely incorrect. What are the circumstances? We'll have a chat with the relevant people and make sure they get home. Crew walking off from port because they're unhappy and things like that and have to... get on the phone and entice them back oh right they're literally just abandoning the boat and going right okay i've had enough i'm off see ya become emotional um had a cry and then walked off and i know it's it's a tough industry isn't it but then sort of bringing them back in trying to explain something that you need to go back to the boat You know, I know it's upsetting, but if you want to leave, I've spoken to you. This is best for you. You go home, but you need to go back to the boat. And by the way, your passport's at port security. You really need to go back now. We need to go back. We can resolve this. We can find that there's a solution to the problem. Yeah. You know, and it's... It's understanding people and their needs. and trying to and quickly understanding yeah what their needs are so i'm getting the impression is there's two sides of this there's a crew wellness side which is genuinely protecting uh the the crew yeah and then also from a commercial perspective it's making sure that you know the retention is slightly higher of crew it's less risk for the for the for the yacht itself etc crew retention is crucial especially for you know for the cost, for the owners, to the owners and the yacht managers, it's crucial. We love a high turn crew because it's good for business. We do like to sort of maximise crew retention wherever possible. And I think having a direct line with the captains, being on call for them, speaking regularly, you know, and our advice to them is before you make any decision, before you talk to any crew, pick the phone up. Yeah, talk to us. And then we can say, yeah, anything's possible, but it's got to be done in the right way that protects you, protects the crew member and also protects the owner. So it's like we're in the middle and we've got to please everybody. But if we can, when we get it right. There was no comeback. Yeah, you start to build trust. You get some longevity out of crew. You get that loyalty and suddenly things start to work. And I always think, I mean, we've come on board a beautiful boat, a 7-yard anomaly. And you can see as soon as you're on board whether the crew are happy or not. Whether they've said anything, there's a feeling about it, isn't there? And so from when it comes to the owner's experience and their expectations. happy crew actually makes a lot of difference. I spoke to a few people while we've been down here in Palmer, it's lovely, and they said about crew payroll. I said crew payroll is easy. Anyone, a trained monkey can do crew payroll, but it's the human side of it. It's the actual dealing with human beings on a day-to-day basis. There's a lot of variables there. Someone's always going to have a problem, and every day is different, which is why it's enjoyable as well. Yeah, and so where is this heading? I've just come across from the Mediterranean Super Yacht Forum, a lot about crew welfare, but then also just expectations of any employee, never mind a yacht crew, when they're on board in terms of their compensation, their rights, what motivates them. It's very, very different. So where is kind of, I suppose, the culture of crew heading for onboard yachts? Culture. Culture's changing. It seems to be... The younger crew aren't as tough maybe as they used to be. And it's just the way the world is and how people are brought up. A lot of them have never been told no in their lives before. A lot of them, this is going to make you laugh, but a lot of them... they might see below decks and go, oh, look at that pretty little island. It's going to be like that. It's going to be fantastic. And then the actual reality is, well, it can be fantastic. It has its moments, but there's a lot in between. It takes a lot of hard work and dedication, and you're going to be told to work harder. And if you get upset about stuff like that, then maybe it's not the career for you. Yeah, I think it's an interesting one because it's... I suppose it takes a different type of leadership today because you're dealing with a different crew member, if they're more junior crew members. And it's a different way of operating. It's often not... I suppose it's more difficult for leaders, but it's also just fundamentally different from how things operated 30, 40 years ago. Yeah. And also you've got captains, very, very educated, very able individuals who can move these massive yachts around. sometimes their sort of HR, their personnel skills don't match their ability to drive the boat. So, and that's where we step in. It's like, we can deal with that for you. You don't have to deal with that. You know, you let us know what the issues are and we'll come up with a solution. You know, we've got years of experience. Is there a bit more accountability around today as well? Because there's lots of traceability, you know, the horror story of, oh, well, this was sent on WhatsApp and it's, you know, it's, it's been evidence effectively it's a new world isn't it it's a new media world but we always find that if you do things right that's why i said before don't make any snap decisions phone us first yeah even if it's you want to dismiss a crew member or someone's resigned and how do you handle it there's ways of getting it it can easily go wrong yeah you know but just doing it right by the book you know in accordance with the contracts like i said every situation is different but before you make a move speak to us we'll make sure it's done right and then everyone's protected crew members protected you're protected as the captain and the owner's like oh please you know and we're protected as well because at the end of the day you know as the employer if it goes wrong we'll be the ones on the end of the hook you know defending it so yeah just don't make any snap decisions get it right first time yeah and and so if uh new build starting to consider employing crew what are the things that should be in their mind for let's get this right like a couple tips a quick fire round okay what should they be considering should they be considering and what are they considering it's two different things um a lot of the time it's i need a payroll company So who's out there? Who's on the market? Who's the cheapest? And a lot of times, cheapest wins. But then, oh, who's handling the human side of it? Who's dealing with the HR? Who's, oh, now we're going to have to employ someone to do the HR. Right, so consider the wider scope of what's actually going to take place with crew. Exactly. You're dealing with individuals, and there's always going to be issues of some kind. So we do the payroll. Of course we do. It's part of what we do. but like you said 25 days a month when we're not doing payroll we're resolving we're helping we're helping people out we're helping the captain run run his boat he's got enough to do driving driving the vessel yeah or piloting the vessel yeah and running it yeah and then so i've got a closing question i'm gonna i'm gonna read out exactly because it because it's important so what is the cost of getting crew management and crew operations wrong what's the bottom line commercial reason to get a some like cornerstone to sort out all your crew oh it it's a minefield um so the the lee the the what's what i'm trying to say the sort of least that can go wrong is it's going to cost the owner thousands. But it could go even further than that. The boat could end up being arrested. They could end up in court defending an unfair dismissal case. There's many things that could go wrong if you don't get it right the first time, if the captain makes a snap decision and does get it wrong. And believe me, they have. i'm sure for all the right reasons but then we've gone right okay thanks for that and it's too late it's too late we're backpedaling now and um there's there's been a couple occasions where it's happened where it's it hasn't gone legal it's not gone to court but the owners had to make a payout and it's it's been in the thousands and that's purely because you didn't seek advice before you made the decision and then that's on the captain then he's in trouble And then his job could be it. Yeah, and it cascades, it self-perpetuates. It's like, oh, if you did this right in the first place, it would have been fine. Please do it right. Please call us. Yeah. It'll be worth it, I promise. Please tell us what's going on, and then we can... Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, the bottom line is we're not just payroll. We are full crew HR, and we pride ourselves in the personal touch, having a great relationship with the captains and managers alike. We deal with some great managers as well. And so, you know, get it right. And you do a damn good job. Yeah, do a good job. And just be passionate about what you do, basically. Yeah. It tends to be the people that care do a damn good job. Yeah. And it goes a long way. It's not hard, is it? It's not hard at the end of the day. For sure. All right, David, thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you very much, Ben. It's been a pleasure. Cheers. Everybody, if you enjoy content like this, make sure you're following here to see plenty more of it. All being well. We'll see you next time. Bye for now.