Latest / NDV Podcast: Neurodiverse Voices Connect / From Survival Mode to Connection: Understanding Meltdowns, Shame & the PAUSE Method with Laura

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From Survival Mode to Connection: Understanding Meltdowns, Shame & the PAUSE Method with Laura · NDV Podcast: Neurodiverse Voices Connect

• 0:17
  Welcome to season 5 of the Neuro Diverse Voices Podcast, the
• 0:22
  podcast that gives a voice to the neuro divergent community.
• 0:27
  My name is Andrea Costa and I am your host.
• 0:32
  I am also the mom to a beautiful 9 year old autistic daughter and
• 0:36
  she is my world. At the age of 42, I was recently
• 0:41
  diagnosed with ADHD and through my lived experience I've
• 0:45
  developed a deep passion for all things neuro diversity.
• 0:51
  My daughter gave me purpose. My neurodivergence keeps the
• 0:55
  passion alive. By sharing my journey, I hope to
• 0:59
  help others feeling seen, understood, and less alone.
• 1:04
  Through conversations with guests from a wide range of
• 1:08
  backgrounds and perspectives, my aim is to challenge assumptions,
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  spark curiosity and enlighten all kinds of minds.
• 1:17
  This is and brings another incredible line up of guests.
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  From comedians and writers to alternative provision leads,
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  therapists, parent advocates and researchers from the University
• 1:29
  of Oxford, every guest has an inspiring journey and a powerful
• 1:33
  story to share. This is a space for honesty,
• 1:36
  connection and celebration where difference is not just accepted
• 1:41
  but valued. Hi everyone, Andrea here from
• 2:05
  Neuro Diverse Voices and we are now on episode #3 of Season 5 of
• 2:11
  the Neuro Diverse Voices Podcast.
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  I have another special guest that I haven't met in person
• 2:16
  yet, but hopefully one day we'll be able to to do it if she comes
• 2:20
  to Oxford or if I go up north. And she's the founder of Sensory
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  Mother. She's a teacher, a coach and a
• 2:29
  mum to neuro divergent children. Welcome, Laura Ellis.
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  Thank you so much, it's lovely to be here.
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  And it's lovely to to have you. So Laura, you wear a lot of hats
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  and I think we should start with you introducing yourself and
• 2:46
  tell us a bit more about Sensory Mother and the work that you do.
• 2:50
  Thank you. Well, yes, I'm Laura Ellis and I
• 2:53
  set Sensory mother up because I reached burnout as a parent of a
• 2:59
  child with autism and ADHD. So but at the time he actually
• 3:05
  wasn't diagnosed. I was just struggling so much
• 3:08
  with everything that we were dealing with at home.
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  And I hit burnout and I was signed off work for a period of
• 3:15
  time. I was teaching at university at
• 3:17
  that point. And during that time I thought
• 3:20
  I'll never be able to go back to work and and need to start some
• 3:23
  kind of side hustle. And I thought I'd started to
• 3:28
  learn about sensory processing and I could see how it was
• 3:31
  impacting my son. And I was trying to put new
• 3:35
  things in place. And so I set this, this
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  Instagram account up and it was just kind of looking at his
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  sensory needs. And I was thinking maybe one day
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  I can sell sensory aids or something like that.
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  And that's where it all began, really.
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  But I went on then to have a, an entire change of career.
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  So basically I have twin boys and they are, they've just
• 3:58
  turned 12 and they, when they started school, one of them
• 4:04
  started to find life very, very challenging.
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  At that point he was, so he would, he'd gone into reception.
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  There hadn't really been any kinds of red flags, I'll say in
• 4:17
  inverted commas, you know, there hadn't really been anything
• 4:21
  other than he was a very shy little boy and he was always
• 4:24
  very close to me. But he was sociable and he was
• 4:28
  learning and he was speaking and he was doing all the things
• 4:31
  that, you know, were expected of him.
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  But when he got to school, things started to change.
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  And at that time I was teaching in secondary school.
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  So I've been, I worked as a secondary teacher for the start
• 4:43
  of my career. And so I had a very specific
• 4:48
  idea about behaviour management and discipline and you know, how
• 4:53
  children should behave. And I was finding more and more
• 4:57
  that the behaviour I was living with in my own home was
• 5:01
  behaviour that I wouldn't accept in my own classroom and school.
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  And it was very difficult for me to kind of think how, how can
• 5:10
  this possibly be? I'm a teacher, I'm trained in
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  behaviour management strategies. Why can't I make anything work
• 5:15
  with this, with my own child? And things just really got more
• 5:19
  and more difficult the longer he was at school.
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  When he went into year one. The wheels completely fell off
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  in year 1 because of course he was expected to sit still for
• 5:30
  longer and he was expected to learn in very rigid ways and
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  things became much more difficult for him.
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  And so, yeah, so sensory. So we kind of Fast forward a few
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  more years and things just were horrendous and, and I didn't
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  know what was happening. And all along I was trying to
• 5:52
  treat everything as behaviour and I was trying to fix the
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  behaviour. And I felt a lot of shame that
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  my child was behaving in this way.
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  And I should have known better. I should have known how to deal
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  with it. And I felt a lot of judgement
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  from other people around me as well.
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  And you know, given the job I was doing, I just, I felt like,
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  I felt like a failure as a mum, but I also felt as a, as a
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  professional failure. I felt like a failure as a
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  teacher because we've been able to do this better.
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  And yeah, so, you know, years of this went by and our
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  relationship just was just falling to pieces because I was
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  trying to fix behaviour. And that really wasn't the right
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  angle. But I didn't know, I didn't know
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  any better. And I just kept going on that
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  line. So we got to a point where
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  things were just really bad, and I felt like we were going to
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  have to separate as a family because I couldn't live in this
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  hostile environment that was our home.
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  So yeah, so basically I hit rock bottom.
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  And at that point, as, as you know, so often happens, we have
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  to kind of hit rock bottom. And then we then we go, right,
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  well, you know, where do we go from here?
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  And so at that point, I realized we can't separate our family.
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  There must be another way. There must be.
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  And at that point, I then just threw myself into completely
• 7:27
  retraining to learning. At that point, we had started to
• 7:32
  explore more about neurodivergence.
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  And he was on the pathway and he, you know, he'd been referred
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  to a number of different services.
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  So I was starting to open my mind up to this idea that this
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  might be what was going on. So basically I fully retrained
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  and I went back into a new role at university where I was then
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  teaching around neurodivergence and I was mentoring and coaching
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  neurodivergent university students.
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  And of course, all my lived experience at home was really
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  helpful in working with those young adults and helping them to
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  be able to put strategies in place.
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  So yeah, I feel like I might have lost you and you're
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  listening. No, no, no, no, that's not.
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  We kind of hit rock bottom. I didn't know where I was
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  headed. And then I made radical changes
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  to how I was dealing with things.
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  And that has then led to a whole new career for me.
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  And I'm now helping parents to do the same.
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  And you know, I'd love to think that I could help parents avoid
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  the depths that I got to so that I can help them to see that
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  there are different things that we can do actually, and they
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  help the situation. Yeah, thank you so much for
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  sharing. That's very personal.
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  And yeah, it's as you were speaking, I can't even imagine
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  how difficult it must be to be a teacher.
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  And you know, the the conflict that that you've had being a
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  teacher and and a parent. But yeah, it's, it's a very
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  inspiring story and it's it's crazy how many of us parents of
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  neodivergent children kind of have similar paths, isn't it?
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  That, you know, it's said that we have to hit rock bottom, rock
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  bottom and, and have to go through so much and, and fight
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  so much, but then there's always something positive coming out of
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  it. So, yeah, thank you so much for
• 9:33
  sharing. So in terms of lived experience,
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  so you talk openly about survival modes.
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  So I think you kind of mentioned a bit going to your your
• 9:50
  burnouts, but what did that look and felt for you as a parent?
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  Yeah, I think that survival mode, I think that half of the
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  time or most of the time we don't actually realize that we
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  are even in survival mode. I think we just get into kind of
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  set routines and we just go through the motions and we just
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  repeat. It feels like Groundhog Day
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  every single day. We just go through these motions
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  and we have these battles with our children constantly and we
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  just, it feels so confusing and so frustrating and we don't
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  realise the toll it's taking on us until probably it's too late.
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  And you know, when we just get to a point where I know with me,
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  I just got to a point where I was just, I was just crying all
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  of the time. I couldn't function.
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  And, you know, I was, I was somebody who functioned very
• 10:45
  effectively at work. And, you know, I was somebody
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  who people would rely on to get things done and, you know, and I
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  couldn't manage to do any of those things.
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  And I didn't really realize why that was happening.
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  It was just a state that I was in.
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  So I think that survival mode really is just that, that we do
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  if, if we can reflect and think, I'm just going through the
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  motions here and nothing is working, but I'm just carrying
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  on doing those same things and I'm not making any changes.
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  I think that's a really good reflection to have to kind of
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  just check in with ourselves and think, you know, how am I
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  actually feeling? You know, I found myself that I
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  was trying to isolate myself a lot more and I'm quite a
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  sociable person and I was trying to find as many ways as I could
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  to just be away from anybody else.
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  You know, I needed so much longer to be able to just think
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  through what was happening. I couldn't deal with the noise
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  of other people being around me. As I say, I was crying a lot.
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  You know, I'd be going to bed every night crying.
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  I know my husband at one point phoned my mum and you know, I
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  was upstairs crying after I'd tried to somehow get through the
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  night time routine and the house had been like, you know, a
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  battlefield. And my husband was downstairs
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  and then he just appeared with my or with his phone in the
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  bedroom and he just kind of passed it to me and it was my
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  mum. And you know, there were so many
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  mornings where literally I, I say it all the time.
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  I don't know what it was about the kitchen, but I think I'd
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  escape downstairs, leave everything upstairs.
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  I'd escape down to the kitchen and my husband would pick me up
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  off the kitchen floor. I'd just be in a heap just
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  crying on the kitchen floor before we'd even, we've already
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  even made a coffee. You know, it was, it just felt
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  so overwhelming. And I think, I mean, at that
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  point, I'd probably come out of survival mode.
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  I don't think I was actually surviving at that point.
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  But yeah, I think that we need to check in with ourselves.
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  Things like when I say about isolation, I didn't want to meet
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  my friends. I've got a lovely, really close
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  circle of friends. I didn't want to go and meet
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  them. I had no, there was no
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  excitement for me to go and meet my my friends.
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  I didn't want to speak to people on the phone because I was just
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  trying to really isolate myself. And now that I'm able to reflect
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  on what was happening back then, now I'm in a great position to
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  be able to notice those things when, if or when they start to
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  happen. And I start to feel a bit
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  overwhelmed. I'm able to start noticing.
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  You know, another thing was I wanted to just sleep all of the
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  time. I just felt like I could close
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  my eyes and go asleep wherever I was at any point of the day.
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  I was so exhausted and overwhelmed.
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  And it wasn't just that, you know, I hadn't had a good
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  night's sleep kind of tired. It was deep in my core just just
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  needing to shut off and close everything down.
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  So again, I notice those things. If I'm finding myself getting
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  really tired or feeling like, oh, I could just go asleep now,
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  it kind of triggers something for me now.
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  And I check in with myself much more regularly to to try and
• 14:07
  avoid that downward spiral. Yeah, it's.
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  So I think that's what survival mode really kind of looked like
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  for me. And as I say, I probably, well,
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  I did. I went beyond survival mode and
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  I really hope that other parents can catch themselves before they
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  get to that. Point yeah, it's very important
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  to be mindful of ourselves. You know, I think there's a bit
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  of misconception that mindfulness is about meditating
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  and, you know, doing breathing exercises.
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  And I've, I've learned last year that not really it's about
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  noticing, it's about being aware of how your body also reacts to,
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  to certain, certain situations. And I'm, I'm curious.
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  So besides your family support and you know, you reflecting and
• 14:58
  getting out, you know, hitting robot bottom and and coming out
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  of it, was there anything else that helped you like therapy or
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  coaching? What what helped to to make you
• 15:10
  feel better? Yeah, both of those things, I
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  think I started to get some counselling myself to to be able
• 15:17
  to which then helped me to be able to identify what was
• 15:21
  happening to me and to be able to recognize those triggers for
• 15:24
  me. But I also, I desperately, I
• 15:29
  desperately needed some validation about what was
• 15:32
  happening. I wanted somebody to come and
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  speak to me directly. I wanted to have a conversation
• 15:39
  with somebody. I wanted somebody to see, listen
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  to what I was experiencing at home and say whatever.
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  I wanted some. I thought somebody might say,
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  you're doing this completely wrong, do this instead or
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  whatever it was. I just wanted somebody to help
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  me to do something. So I started paying for the
• 16:00
  various different coaches to to kind of help me to understand
• 16:04
  what was going on with my son, what was going on at home.
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  And of course, a huge part of that was simply validating my
• 16:11
  experience. You know, it was so powerful
• 16:15
  having a professional say to me, this is not your fault.
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  It, it landed so much, you know, with so much more impact because
• 16:27
  it wasn't, you know, when I was saying this can't, it can't be
• 16:30
  my fault. It can't be my fault.
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  But the voices in your head are telling you that it is your
• 16:35
  fault. And even some of the voices
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  around the outside of you, you know, particularly with my son
• 16:41
  and so many of the families that I work with, my son was fine in
• 16:46
  school. You know, in inverted commas, he
• 16:49
  was fine in school. He was fine when he went to his
• 16:52
  grandparents house. He was fine when he went for
• 16:55
  play dates to other people's houses.
• 16:58
  Not just at home. Yeah, when I was reporting,
• 17:01
  people were saying oh, Oh no, Oh no, that doesn't happen with me.
• 17:05
  Oh no, none of that happens with me.
• 17:08
  And that just firms up that idea in your own mind that will
• 17:13
  obviously this is about me. This is because he doesn't have
• 17:16
  any respect for me. This is because my boundaries
• 17:19
  aren't fair enough. This is because I'm not
• 17:21
  parenting him in the right way. And that was, it was so powerful
• 17:28
  to have somebody come to me, meet me personally and say
• 17:32
  absolutely, this is not about you.
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  Actually, what it is is XY and Z and to give me some kind of
• 17:40
  professional, professional knowledge and understanding
• 17:45
  about what actually was going on.
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  But this wasn't about me, it was about him and how his brain was
• 17:52
  wired and how overwhelmed he was with life.
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  And in general. Was the kind of the the the
• 18:02
  effects of his overwhelm so. And I bet it helped.
• 18:08
  Yeah. I bet it helps to speak to
• 18:11
  someone who is completely outside the picture, someone who
• 18:15
  can be neutral because, yeah, when you are within the
• 18:20
  situation yourself, the perspective is, is is not the
• 18:24
  same as if you are completely outside.
• 18:28
  Yeah. I love to do.
• 18:29
  That's my favorite part of this job that I've now created for
• 18:33
  myself is literally just sitting.
• 18:36
  I do a lot of work online and just sitting with a parent and
• 18:41
  talking about their situation and being able to validate their
• 18:45
  experience. And usually, you know, in every
• 18:48
  single call that we have, I'm able to make things more clear
• 18:52
  for them so I can help them to understand, you know, what their
• 18:56
  child is actually communicating to them with their behaviour.
• 19:02
  And you know, it's, it's never about fixing the child.
• 19:05
  It's about understanding what's going on so that we can fix the
• 19:08
  situation rather than the child because the child isn't broken
• 19:13
  and the parent isn't broken. It's the situation that needs
• 19:16
  some some adjusting and some support.
• 19:19
  And that's where now I feel with my lived experience.
• 19:23
  And as I say, I went on to kind of retrain and I was teaching
• 19:27
  masters level autism studies at university.
• 19:30
  You know, it was, it's so I've got kind of the academic
• 19:33
  professional background, but I've very much got that lived
• 19:37
  experience. So it's not about teaching
• 19:40
  people masters level where it's about kind of helping them to
• 19:46
  understand what's actually going on so that they can stop blaming
• 19:49
  themselves and stop just feeling completely hopeless and actually
• 19:54
  see, right. It's not quite so random
• 19:57
  actually. There are, there are patterns
• 19:59
  here. There are things that we can
• 20:00
  look out for so that we can make changes which actually help.
• 20:05
  So that's what I absolutely love doing that now.
• 20:09
  Yeah, yeah. Because you've been there before
• 20:11
  and you don't want other parents to go through through the same.
• 20:14
  And what, what would you say were the most challenging
• 20:17
  moments for you as a parent during that time?
• 20:20
  Because managing you with the burnouts, plus being a mom,
• 20:26
  being a wife as well, you know, being a daughter what what were
• 20:31
  the most challenging times? So for me, the biggest
• 20:34
  challenges were the meltdowns. So they felt relentless.
• 20:39
  I was being told that my son was fine everywhere else, but as
• 20:43
  soon as he'd come home or as soon as we'd get in the car
• 20:46
  outside school or as soon as he was with me, he would just let
• 20:51
  RIP. And so these meltdowns were
• 20:54
  shouting, screaming, hitting, throwing things just just
• 21:01
  really, you know, he so, so distressed.
• 21:04
  So, so, you know, distressing for, for both of us and for
• 21:09
  everybody else around us because it would happen in front of his
• 21:11
  twin and it would happen with my husband as well.
• 21:16
  So these meltdowns were just happening all of the time.
• 21:19
  And because I didn't understand what they were, what they meant,
• 21:24
  I just thought that he was choosing to do this.
• 21:27
  It was bad behaviour. And so I was challenging it all
• 21:30
  of the time. So as soon as he would start, I
• 21:34
  would challenge him. So I would be stepping in and
• 21:37
  trying to fix that behaviour and correct him and teach him how to
• 21:41
  do things differently. And, and then the teaching
• 21:44
  wouldn't work. That would make everything
• 21:46
  worse. Then I'd just get cross with him
• 21:48
  and before we knew it, we would just be screaming and yelling at
• 21:53
  each other. And as somebody who generally,
• 21:58
  although by this point it was diminishing a little bit, but
• 22:00
  generally I do have quite a lot of self respect.
• 22:03
  And so I wasn't willing to have have my child speak to me in
• 22:08
  that way. You know, that that type of
• 22:09
  behaviour I wouldn't have accepted at school, in my
• 22:12
  classroom, and I certainly wasn't willing to accept it from
• 22:16
  home. So that level of me correcting
• 22:19
  it was just constant. I was just constantly trying to
• 22:22
  fix the behaviour because that was all I knew and that's what I
• 22:25
  thought was the right thing to do.
• 22:27
  I thought that every time I let him get away with the tiniest
• 22:30
  thing, that would mean that that would make everything worse for
• 22:35
  us, that he was learning that he could speak to me in that way
• 22:38
  and all of those things that we do when we focus on behaviour.
• 22:42
  And so for me, it just became this.
• 22:44
  I kind of had this 0 tolerance attitude that the minute the
• 22:49
  tiniest thing that he would do, I would be all over him because
• 22:53
  I thought that I needed to stop it.
• 22:55
  I needed to teach him how to do things differently.
• 22:57
  And so we just got into this state where it was just
• 23:00
  constantly me leading with correction and it wouldn't work.
• 23:05
  And so then I'd just lose the plot entirely.
• 23:08
  And then I'd just kind of, you know, be screaming like a
• 23:10
  banshee most of the time. And so it felt like to me, I was
• 23:15
  walking on egg shells. I, I simply couldn't be in my
• 23:17
  own home and just be in my own home.
• 23:20
  I couldn't look at him without something happening.
• 23:23
  I couldn't say a word to him. I couldn't ask him, you know,
• 23:28
  which of his favorite chocolate bars he wanted that would set
• 23:31
  him off. There were, you know, there were
• 23:33
  things that were setting him off that they didn't make any sense
• 23:37
  to me. So I thought that he was
• 23:38
  choosing to do it because he hated me.
• 23:41
  And of course, our relationship was just, you know, over time,
• 23:47
  our relationship was just absolutely on the floor.
• 23:49
  I didn't want to be around him and he didn't want to be around
• 23:53
  me. And as the the default parent,
• 23:57
  the main parent picking up after school and being the one at home
• 24:01
  while my husband was at work, you know, it felt to me to be
• 24:05
  that main parent for him. But yet we couldn't stand each
• 24:08
  other essentially. And I can kind of laugh about it
• 24:12
  now because I have been able to. We have made a change in our
• 24:16
  relationship now is really strong.
• 24:19
  I am his person. I, I know I am his person.
• 24:23
  And I'm proud to be his person because I understand all of
• 24:28
  those things. And when I was spending my life
• 24:30
  walking on egg shells, not knowing when the next meltdown
• 24:34
  would come, not knowing how to deal with the meltdown when it
• 24:37
  did come, just living in constant fear, knowing that the
• 24:41
  next one was just around the corner, it was completely
• 24:45
  overwhelming. So that for me was what made
• 24:48
  everything so difficult. And the further we got into this
• 24:52
  journey and the more it became apparent that there was
• 24:55
  something else going on, the more I knew as a as a good mum,
• 25:00
  I knew I needed to learn about autism, I needed to learn about
• 25:04
  ADHD. But I had no capacity to learn
• 25:08
  because I was so overwhelmed with what was going on.
• 25:12
  And this is where this is what I want to do with parents.
• 25:15
  I want to just help to reduce that overwhelm for them.
• 25:18
  I don't want to teach them masters degrees.
• 25:21
  That's not what I'm interested in.
• 25:23
  I'm interested in teaching them small bite sized pieces of
• 25:27
  information that actually help them to start just being able to
• 25:32
  see things more clearly and start bringing more calm into
• 25:37
  their home. So that was really what, what
• 25:41
  inspired this whole, the whole of Sensory Mother essentially
• 25:44
  dealt with what it's become now was because when I had gone
• 25:50
  through all of this trial and error, when I'd started to bring
• 25:53
  in more of my more kind of theory that I was learning, but
• 25:57
  then making it practically applicable in our lives.
• 26:01
  I was able to identify that when we got to a place where things
• 26:05
  were better for us, there were five specific things that had
• 26:09
  really helped us to get to where we were.
• 26:12
  And that's where I then created what I now what is now my
• 26:15
  signature methods, the pause methods, these five simple steps
• 26:20
  that actually, if we can just just focus on these five simple
• 26:24
  things, we can actually feel a little bit calmer.
• 26:28
  The meltdowns reduce in kind of ferocity.
• 26:31
  They reduce in frequency, and we can get to a place where we do
• 26:36
  actually feel like, OK, now I can now I can learn some more
• 26:40
  things that I need to learn. And now I can start living my
• 26:43
  life beyond the meltdowns. So I created the pause method
• 26:48
  based on the things that had been most helpful to me.
• 26:52
  And you asked before about, you know, how having outside help
• 26:57
  was actually helpful because the pause method, it wasn't just
• 27:01
  about understanding my son, it was understanding me.
• 27:05
  And so the work that I'd done through therapy was really,
• 27:09
  there were certain parts of that.
• 27:11
  They were really actually very helpful for me in understanding
• 27:15
  how I was handling the situation or not handling the situation.
• 27:20
  The things that I was doing that really weren't helping that I
• 27:24
  was then able to change when I became aware of it.
• 27:27
  So that, you know, out of the five steps, three of the steps
• 27:31
  actually are focusing on ourselves and what we can do to
• 27:34
  help ourselves, which then has an impact on our children.
• 27:38
  Yeah, it's a, it's a ripple effect, isn't it?
• 27:40
  If, if you don't understand yourself, how you're going to be
• 27:44
  able to understand your child and yeah and and support them
• 27:48
  in, in, in that way. But yeah, I think it's very easy
• 27:52
  to confuse bad behaviour with, with the meltdown.
• 27:58
  And I, I truly, yeah. And I, I truly, I truly, truly
• 28:03
  relate with the fear, the living in fear, you know, the wanting
• 28:10
  to do certain things where, you know, you know, there might be
• 28:14
  an overwhelm, but then and still doing them.
• 28:18
  But then, you know, getting home and, and, you know, being in
• 28:23
  fear that there's going to be a meltdown because it's, it's
• 28:26
  definitely not, not not nice to see and and to experience
• 28:32
  because as a parent, you feel helpless.
• 28:33
  You want to to help your child because you you hate seeing them
• 28:38
  in that status, but there's not much you can do.
• 28:42
  And I've also learned that, you know, sometimes it's just best
• 28:45
  to leave them. It needs to come out and it's
• 28:48
  going to come out in their safe space, which is home.
• 28:53
  And that's what exactly what was happening with you.
• 28:55
  You know, you was fine everywhere else, but then you
• 28:58
  were in safe haven. So, you know, as mums and the
• 29:04
  the closest connection with them, we we have to to deal with
• 29:10
  it in in a way, we just need to learn how to, to better deal
• 29:14
  with, with the situation. Absolutely.
• 29:16
  Yeah, and I think that that's that's just so important that,
• 29:20
  you know, at the height of when things were were really bad.
• 29:24
  I knew that he wasn't fine in school.
• 29:26
  I knew that school was having a major impact on how he was
• 29:30
  feeling. You know, our mornings were
• 29:33
  absolutely horrendous. Trying to get him into school in
• 29:36
  the morning where it was just, it was unbelievably difficult.
• 29:41
  And you know, having two teachers, my husbands a teacher
• 29:43
  as well, having two teachers as parents, you know, we are
• 29:46
  absolutely very, it kind of institutionalized that we we do
• 29:50
  go to school. We have to go to school.
• 29:51
  There is no choice. And I I said for, you know, for
• 29:55
  many years, had he lived with a different family whose parents
• 30:00
  weren't teachers, he probably would have fallen into the
• 30:04
  school refuser category years before.
• 30:07
  But we had just by the skin of our teeth got him in.
• 30:12
  And you know, when I look back, I, I wish that I hadn't done
• 30:16
  that. I wish that I hadn't put him
• 30:20
  through that. But I just didn't realise.
• 30:23
  But when things were, were when I was starting to realise how
• 30:27
  bad school was for him, I kind of went into very much, maybe it
• 30:33
  was part of the denial phase of, of where I was going through.
• 30:36
  But I wanted to blame school. I wanted to take the blame off
• 30:40
  me and I wanted to put all of the blame on to school.
• 30:43
  And really when I started to learn what was going on, there
• 30:47
  was a lot going on in school that was overwhelming him, but
• 30:51
  there was also a lot going on at home that I could have managed
• 30:54
  very differently, that I wasn't managing differently.
• 30:58
  And when it started to dawn on me, it was really vulnerable
• 31:01
  kind of realization that I thought, oh, hang on, it's not
• 31:05
  all school. Actually, there are more things
• 31:09
  that I can be doing to support him at home.
• 31:11
  I didn't realise that this thing was so difficult for him.
• 31:14
  And actually I could have done XY and Z.
• 31:17
  So, yeah, so understanding that there are things that we can put
• 31:24
  in place that help to reduce that overwhelm.
• 31:28
  But again, it's going back to that.
• 31:29
  We're not fixing the child, we're fixing the situation that
• 31:33
  they're in. Whether that situation is school
• 31:36
  and changing certain things at school or whether the situation
• 31:39
  is, you know, the going out to a party at the weekend and
• 31:44
  changing certain elements of that situation, or whether it's
• 31:48
  changing the routines and the things that we do at home so
• 31:51
  that we accommodate the, the busy brain.
• 31:55
  I we talk about his busy brain. That's the language that we use
• 31:58
  with him. And he knows he has a very busy
• 32:01
  brain. So he knows he needs, he needs
• 32:03
  longer or certainly I now understand that he needs longer
• 32:07
  to, to prepare for different things that are going to be
• 32:11
  challenging for him and he needs longer time to recover after
• 32:16
  those challenging times. And if we don't build in those
• 32:21
  time buffers into our daily routines and our weekly
• 32:24
  routines, if they don't become a priority for us, then we're
• 32:29
  never going to be able to break this cycle of overwhelm.
• 32:33
  And, and in, in terms of sensory and, and, and understanding the
• 32:42
  child's nervous system, how does that play a role in, in
• 32:46
  supporting children and well, your, your child in this case?
• 32:51
  I think that is just the absolute fundamental shift that
• 32:56
  we need to make in our mind that this is a nervous system
• 33:01
  response. And that is where the pause
• 33:03
  method is. It's an anagram.
• 33:05
  Is that the right word? Anagram PAUSE.
• 33:08
  And the P is Physiology, which sounds very academic and boring,
• 33:11
  but it it's not. But the P is understanding what
• 33:15
  is actually happening in the body because for so many of our
• 33:19
  children, for our neurodivergent children, they are, they are
• 33:25
  experiencing things that we can't see and they're
• 33:28
  experiencing distress that we can't see.
• 33:31
  And I always kind of come back to the peanut allergy reaction
• 33:35
  kind of analogy. I always ask parents to think
• 33:38
  about that. You know, even if a child who
• 33:41
  had a peanut allergy, even if they ate a peanut and we felt
• 33:45
  they'd done it completely out of spite, they'd just eaten this
• 33:48
  peanut because they were being naughty or whatever.
• 33:51
  The reason for them eating a peanut wouldn't affect the way
• 33:55
  we dealt with the situation if they started to have an
• 33:58
  anaphylactic shock, which I appreciate is a very extreme
• 34:01
  thing to think about not doing that down.
• 34:04
  But what we're seeing with an anaphylactic shock is a nervous
• 34:07
  system reaction. It's a brain kind of sending
• 34:09
  signals around the body that things need to happen and the
• 34:12
  brain and body are taking over in that situation.
• 34:15
  Now, if we would go, if we were looking at a child in that
• 34:18
  situation, we even if we thought they'd be naughty for eating the
• 34:22
  peanut, we would be able to put that aside and separate those
• 34:26
  feelings. We would want to help the child
• 34:29
  in that situation because we could see with our eyes, we
• 34:33
  could see how distressing that whole situation was for them.
• 34:37
  We wouldn't be cross with them. We wouldn't be going in saying
• 34:40
  stop reacting like that, behave yourself and pull yourself
• 34:43
  together. We wouldn't do any of that.
• 34:45
  We would respond to them in the very best way that we possibly
• 34:49
  could, whether that was going to get an EpiPen for them.
• 34:52
  So we would provide something for them to use in the moment,
• 34:55
  whether it was a phone and 999, whatever it was.
• 34:58
  Obviously as I've said, it's a very extreme reaction.
• 35:01
  I don't mean to trigger any of you.
• 35:03
  But it's, it's great. It's a great analogy.
• 35:05
  I had never thought about that. Yeah.
• 35:07
  But of course with our neurodeal divergent children, when they're
• 35:10
  in meltdown, we don't see any of that or, or what we see is
• 35:14
  naughty, defiant behaviour because it looks on the surface
• 35:18
  to be quite similar to that. But what that does to us is it
• 35:23
  makes us cross with them and we respond with anger and we say
• 35:27
  things like calm down, stop behaving like that.
• 35:29
  How dare you speak to me like that.
• 35:30
  And what we're doing in that reaction, in that response, is
• 35:34
  we're exacerbating the whole situation because we are not
• 35:39
  understanding that at that point their body has been flooded with
• 35:43
  hormones. It's actual science what is
• 35:45
  going on here. And so with the pause method,
• 35:48
  that's where we start. We look at that, that
• 35:51
  Physiology, what is actually happening because when we can
• 35:55
  break that down and understand what's going on, we can respond
• 36:00
  with more empathy. We approach the situation
• 36:03
  thinking how can I help my child instead of how can I stop this
• 36:08
  and how can I teach them to be better human beings?
• 36:12
  We don't do that I. Think that it's so, so
• 36:15
  important. It's the fundamental shift I
• 36:17
  think that we need to make understanding the nervous
• 36:20
  system. Definitely.
• 36:22
  And now let's talk a bit more in depth about the pause method.
• 36:27
  So what do the other letters stand for?
• 36:30
  And and can we know more about it?
• 36:34
  Yes, thank you for letting me talk about the pause method and
• 36:37
  I'm really proud of it. And it's something that I've
• 36:39
  developed because these were the steps that were most helpful to
• 36:43
  me and I want to share them with parents.
• 36:46
  It's about having something repeatable and memorable that we
• 36:50
  can come back to that help us in the moment.
• 36:53
  Like I've said, it's not about learning masters level autism
• 36:58
  and ADHD. It's not about that.
• 36:59
  It's about something very simple, very concrete that we
• 37:03
  can use every day to help us to manage these meltdowns.
• 37:07
  So it is five steps, I say 5 steps to a calmer, more
• 37:11
  connected home. And the P is for Physiology.
• 37:15
  So we look at what's going on in the child's nervous system and
• 37:18
  most importantly, how we can respond more like as if we were
• 37:24
  responding to the peanut allergy reaction.
• 37:27
  So I give again another mini framework, A PEA framework in
• 37:31
  there so that we can, in the moment, we can just go, right?
• 37:34
  What is it that I need to do now?
• 37:36
  And I have got visuals to go with it to remind parents of
• 37:39
  each of the steps because it's so difficult to think when
• 37:43
  you're in these, in these moments.
• 37:45
  So I just wanted something really memorable that parents
• 37:49
  would go right, pause. I just need to remember the one
• 37:52
  word pause. What do I do first?
• 37:54
  So P is Physiology, A is awareness, and that's really
• 37:58
  where we apply that awareness of Physiology to ourselves,
• 38:02
  understanding our own nervous system and understanding how we
• 38:06
  are reacting and why we are reacting the way we react.
• 38:09
  And importantly, what can we do to just calm our own nervous
• 38:13
  system down so that we can be what what our child needs to be?
• 38:19
  So that's the a. EU is about recognising the
• 38:22
  unhelpful thoughts that we have in our own mind.
• 38:25
  So very often we don't respond to what's happening in the
• 38:30
  moment. We actually respond to what we
• 38:33
  are predicting might happen in 10 years time if we don't stop
• 38:37
  this problem right now. And that isn't helpful to us in
• 38:41
  the moment of meltdown. So EU is about really catching
• 38:45
  those unhelpful thoughts and trying to place them with
• 38:49
  something more helpful in the moment.
• 38:52
  So kind of a mantra really that we give ourselves that helps.
• 38:57
  Then we go on to the S, which we start to get very practical in
• 39:01
  the S stage. So S is for stress and demands,
• 39:05
  understanding really what stress and demands look like for our
• 39:08
  neurodivergent children, what makes things difficult for them,
• 39:12
  and importantly, why on some days are certain things really
• 39:17
  difficult, but yet on other days they're not really difficult?
• 39:21
  Because that can cause so much frustration for us when, you
• 39:25
  know, we asked them to do a simple task like go and get
• 39:27
  dressed. And one day they can go and get
• 39:29
  dressed absolutely fine. And we know that they've got the
• 39:32
  skills to be able to do that. So on the next day when they
• 39:36
  start having a meltdown because they don't want to get dressed,
• 39:39
  we think, yeah, I know you can get dressed now you're just
• 39:42
  being difficult now you just no, go and get dressed and we start
• 39:45
  to build that meltdown again. So that's the S really looking
• 39:49
  at why, what makes things difficult and why it's so
• 39:53
  changeable. And then the final step, which I
• 39:57
  think it's so, so important that we recognise that the Pau and
• 40:02
  the S are all about connecting with our children.
• 40:05
  They're about understanding. What's going on underneath the
• 40:08
  surface for them and for us? And we need to connect before we
• 40:13
  do any correcting. We need to connect.
• 40:15
  So we need to get out of that mindset of fixing the behavior.
• 40:19
  And we need to get into understanding what's going on
• 40:22
  and really being there with our child, connecting with them the
• 40:26
  way they need. But the E is the final step
• 40:29
  because many parents like us, you know, professional parents,
• 40:32
  we want to do a good job. We understand that our role is
• 40:36
  to help these, these young children become adults who live
• 40:40
  healthy and happy lives. And so the E is about
• 40:44
  establishing boundaries because for so many of us, we feel this
• 40:48
  huge pressure to not kind of not give in and not be too soft and
• 40:53
  not let them get away with this behaviour.
• 40:56
  And that is important. It is important that they
• 40:59
  understand that they can't just go round the house yelling at
• 41:02
  everyone or throwing things and hitting their siblings and all
• 41:05
  of those kinds of things. But we have to understand how to
• 41:09
  do that in the right way for our children.
• 41:12
  If we still try and set those boundaries the way our friends
• 41:16
  down the road are doing with their children, it's never going
• 41:19
  to work. So the E is for establishing
• 41:22
  boundaries. So it's about how we can
• 41:24
  reconnect with our children after the meltdown, how we can
• 41:27
  help them to be able to move beyond the meltdown and how we
• 41:31
  can teach them in ways that actually work for them.
• 41:35
  So, you know, many parents come to me and I know I felt like
• 41:39
  there was a period of time where I thought, this is just it.
• 41:42
  Now for the rest of my life, I just have to live in this war
• 41:45
  zone every single day. This is just it.
• 41:47
  And I want parents to know that it's not it.
• 41:50
  But first we have to connect with our children.
• 41:52
  We have to understand what's going on and we have to be the
• 41:56
  what they need in the moment of meltdown.
• 41:59
  And then yes, we can look to set boundaries and, and you know,
• 42:04
  have consequences. Lots of parents come to me and
• 42:06
  say, but they need to have a consequence.
• 42:08
  They can't just behave like this.
• 42:10
  And I understand that that is important for many, many people.
• 42:13
  And I do believe that they're, you know, we do need to help our
• 42:17
  children to be able to grow and, and move on, but we have to do
• 42:21
  it in the right way. If we just try and set
• 42:24
  consequences and send them on the naughty step like other
• 42:27
  families do without, I know, and it's really effective.
• 42:29
  Those children, we're never going to move forward.
• 42:32
  So so that E is the final step. So we lead with connection in
• 42:38
  the first four steps and then we look at ways to correct and I
• 42:42
  say an inverted commas because I do believe that connection is
• 42:45
  the most important. But yes, there are ways that we
• 42:48
  can move beyond the meltdowns and and set some boundaries in
• 42:52
  our home that make everybody feel safe, because it's not just
• 42:56
  our children who feel unsafe with this meltdown cycle.
• 42:59
  It's all us as well and it's their siblings and it's the
• 43:03
  other family members. So so we finish with E for
• 43:06
  established boundaries and it's literally the pause method.
• 43:10
  I've tried to make it as accessible as possible.
• 43:13
  So it's five simple short videos.
• 43:16
  So there's one video per step. Each video is under 15 minutes.
• 43:21
  And it's just a way for me to kind of provide a little bit of
• 43:25
  a coaching call. But it's completely on demand,
• 43:28
  on demand because many of us can't turn up live to a, to a
• 43:33
  coaching call. You know, many of us need this
• 43:35
  kind of help when we're at 11:00 at night, when we're lying in
• 43:38
  bed and we're thinking, well, how can I, what have I done
• 43:41
  today? How can I make tomorrow better?
• 43:43
  So the pause method, this is completely on demand for parents
• 43:47
  and there's A and there's a workbook to go through to go
• 43:50
  alongside so you can make notes and you can really personalize
• 43:53
  each of the steps so that they work for you and for your child.
• 43:58
  So. That's brilliant.
• 44:01
  Yeah, that's brilliant. Well done.
• 44:03
  Yeah, that's, that's amazing. And I, again, I relate.
• 44:08
  I think I do a bit of that unconsciously just, you know,
• 44:13
  with with self learning as well. But yeah, I think it can benefit
• 44:18
  many parents for sure. And have you seen any shifts in
• 44:21
  the parents you you see a new supports of course without
• 44:25
  disclosing any, anything that's confidential, but do you have
• 44:29
  any case success case of someone who used the pause methods?
• 44:34
  Yeah, I think that because I also offer coaching as well, if
• 44:38
  people want to add coaching into the pause method so they can do
• 44:41
  that kind of however best suits them.
• 44:43
  But I think the major feedback that I've had from everybody
• 44:46
  who's accessed the pause method is just how, how simple it is,
• 44:51
  how having me talk to them about my situation and about what's
• 44:55
  going on. They're able to say, you know,
• 44:57
  people come back and say things like, Oh my gosh, I feel like
• 45:00
  you're in my home, Laura. And they'll, they, they just
• 45:04
  find it really helpful because you know, even in that very
• 45:07
  first video, which is, I think it's, I think it's 10 minutes
• 45:11
  long in that very first video, just understanding and making,
• 45:16
  making that shift in your mind that this is not a choice.
• 45:20
  This is a nervous system in complete overwhelm.
• 45:24
  And just having me as a professional and somebody who
• 45:28
  has lived this, having me tell them and to break it down for
• 45:32
  them really simply helps them just in that first session to,
• 45:37
  to just deal with the very next meltdown in a different way.
• 45:42
  And it gives them something to anchor onto.
• 45:44
  So even in that very first 10 minute session, and I say to
• 45:48
  parents, you know, they can binge the whole thing in one go
• 45:51
  if they want. You know, each of the videos is
• 45:52
  really short, but I think that it's a great idea to tend to
• 45:56
  just take one step at a time. Do the first step and, you know,
• 46:01
  watch it back a few times. You can watch it back as many
• 46:03
  times as you want, but kind of look at that first step and just
• 46:07
  keep remembering. Okay, we're looking at P.
• 46:09
  It's P. I'm just remembering P at the
• 46:12
  moment. And when P feels like, okay,
• 46:14
  I'm, I'm kind of getting this now, Then let's add in A and
• 46:18
  then let's add in you. So yeah, parents work at it at
• 46:23
  their own pace. But the major feedback I get is
• 46:25
  that it's just so simple. And I explain things in ways
• 46:29
  that really just are helpful for families.
• 46:33
  And they see this reduction in the meltdowns because straight
• 46:38
  away when we, when we approach it kind of with this idea of
• 46:42
  let's get the child an EpiPen rather than let's tell them off
• 46:46
  about it. In that very first mindset
• 46:49
  shift, we see that the meltdown actually it doesn't.
• 46:52
  The very next meltdown just doesn't kind of bubble the way
• 46:57
  previous meltdowns do. So straight away we can see or
• 47:01
  actually by implementing that Pi can see that this meltdown was
• 47:05
  just slightly less ferocious. It was, it lasted slightly less
• 47:10
  time, less. And you know, the the more times
• 47:14
  that we can do that because let's face it, you know, I'm not
• 47:16
  selling a magic wand. And I say that all the time.
• 47:19
  You know, this isn't a magic wand.
• 47:21
  We understand as parents that this is hard, that we, we do
• 47:24
  need to to learn some things. We do need to learn about what's
• 47:28
  going on so that we can do things differently.
• 47:31
  It does take effort for us to be able to do that.
• 47:35
  None of us can just magically make this go away.
• 47:38
  It's part of our lives and we have to find a way to to manage
• 47:42
  this, to manage it. But for every meltdown that is
• 47:46
  just slightly less distressing, then the overwhelm becomes
• 47:51
  slightly less so. Then when the next meltdown
• 47:54
  happens, it's coming from a slightly lower baseline.
• 47:59
  And So what we see is this kind of cumulative effect when we
• 48:02
  can, when we can just reduce the ferocity and the the length and
• 48:07
  the frequency of all of the meltdowns that happen.
• 48:11
  Then over time and over like a short period of time, when we
• 48:15
  realise when we're no longer exacerbating the whole thing,
• 48:19
  over a short period of time, we can just feel like, OK, everyone
• 48:24
  can just breathe a little bit more in between these meltdowns.
• 48:27
  And that's when we can then have the capacity to maybe learn a
• 48:31
  little bit more, maybe do a little bit more and, you know,
• 48:34
  get some coaching or look at some new books that we want to
• 48:38
  read. Or maybe we've got the capacity
• 48:40
  to think about what kinds of help, what kinds of other help
• 48:43
  might my child need or the sitting kind of therapies that
• 48:47
  might be really useful for them, those kinds of things.
• 48:50
  So it's just about trying to just get some breathing space
• 48:53
  and that's what pause is all. About, yeah.
• 48:56
  And it just reinforced something that I truly believe in is that
• 49:01
  sometimes we overcomplicate things because we don't have the
• 49:04
  headspace to to think. But most of the times is the
• 49:10
  simple things like pause, which is a very simple framework that
• 49:14
  help us the most, isn't it? Yeah, definitely.
• 49:19
  Great. So yeah, I will link your
• 49:21
  website so that you know, people can have a look at it anyway.
• 49:26
  And yeah, hopefully you'll have some other parents contacting
• 49:31
  you about it. So now going a bit back to the
• 49:35
  shame and or this this attitude that you know when you are in
• 49:40
  that denial phase and you or in the phase of not understanding.
• 49:45
  So you you spoke about replacing shouting shame and confusion
• 49:48
  with with calm and connection. Why do you feel that shame is
• 49:53
  such a big part of our parents, our parenting experience?
• 49:59
  Yeah, I think, I just think that it's, it's just so ingrained
• 50:05
  into us that, you know, we bring these children into the world
• 50:09
  and we give them all our love and we want them to just be
• 50:13
  lovely humans. And we have this idea in our
• 50:17
  mind about what that's going to look like.
• 50:19
  And for some of us, it just doesn't look like that.
• 50:24
  And especially, you know, when I'm working with, well, I mean,
• 50:28
  let's face it, all of the parents who are listening to
• 50:30
  your podcast and all of the parents who connect with me
• 50:33
  through Instagram or wherever, these are all parents who are
• 50:38
  wanting to do something different.
• 50:40
  They are wanting to be good parents.
• 50:43
  And so when we have this idea in our mind about what a good
• 50:48
  parent is, anything that for of course a good parent, really we
• 50:53
  see good parenting until we understand it properly, what we
• 50:58
  see is the outcome. So good parenting equals a good
• 51:03
  child. And so we we can't separate
• 51:06
  those two things. We can't think that you can be a
• 51:09
  good parent, but yet your child is doing XY and Z.
• 51:13
  It can't possibly be, you can't possibly be good parenting if if
• 51:16
  your child is is doing that. So I think we just have this
• 51:20
  idea in our mind, those of us who do want to read the books
• 51:23
  and those of us who do want to go to the parenting classes and
• 51:26
  those of us who do want to go and join all the clubs for our
• 51:29
  children. We just have this really clear
• 51:32
  idea in our mind about what everything should look like.
• 51:35
  And so there's so much, so much judgement that we just turn on
• 51:40
  ourselves when things don't look like that.
• 51:43
  And, and especially for so many of us, we'll have certain
• 51:48
  parenting experiences ourselves as in how we were parented.
• 51:52
  So I was brought up by two professional people who were
• 51:55
  lovely parents and we had kind of a just a lovely idyllic
• 52:00
  middle class upbringing, all of that kind of stuff.
• 52:03
  But I was a particular type of person.
• 52:06
  I was quite reserved as a child. I was very shy.
• 52:09
  I was very compliant. I was quite, you know, I did OK
• 52:14
  at school, you know, I got on with people, had friends, all of
• 52:18
  those things. I was, I mean, I was quite an
• 52:20
  easy child, to be honest, to, to raise.
• 52:23
  And I'm sure that my mum and dad had a huge influence on me.
• 52:26
  But I felt like, well, I need to parent the same way that they
• 52:31
  parented. And I really wasn't allowing for
• 52:34
  the, the difference in the fact that I wasn't parenting me, I
• 52:38
  was parenting a different human being with different genetics,
• 52:43
  had come from a different gene pool.
• 52:45
  And I think a lot of the time we, we think that if we, if we
• 52:50
  have had a good upbringing, that we, what we consider to be a
• 52:53
  good upbringing, we just automatically credit our parents
• 52:57
  for all of that. And we don't really think about
• 53:00
  the part that we actually played ourselves in that experience.
• 53:04
  And I wasn't parenting me. I was parenting a very different
• 53:08
  human being, which meant that the the strategies that my mum
• 53:12
  and dad used with me, they they just.
• 53:15
  Didn't work. With my son, because he wasn't
• 53:17
  me, he was a different human being.
• 53:20
  But until we kind of realized that, we just kind of go this,
• 53:24
  this is the way that we do it. And then you have the complete
• 53:26
  opposite side of that as well. Lots of parents who've been
• 53:29
  brought up, you know, have come from backgrounds where they
• 53:33
  absolutely do not want to recreate what happened there.
• 53:37
  So they have a kind of a completely different idea.
• 53:40
  And they think, you know, there was so much shouting and maybe
• 53:43
  there was aggression and horrible relationships in the
• 53:46
  house that they broke brought up in.
• 53:48
  So therefore they absolutely will not have that in their
• 53:51
  house. And instead of thinking about
• 53:54
  the fact that there are just different dynamics in this
• 53:57
  house, it's just different people who are in this house
• 53:59
  making up this family, they automatically just blame
• 54:02
  themselves and they think, well, it's obviously me because it's
• 54:06
  obviously the way I was brought up and I'm obviously doing
• 54:09
  something wrong. So I just think it's, you know,
• 54:12
  we don't really ever think about that.
• 54:15
  We don't ever think about the fact that everybody's experience
• 54:18
  is completely different. We're dealing with different
• 54:20
  human beings all of the time, in every family.
• 54:23
  And yeah, it's something really to think about, isn't it?
• 54:27
  Yeah, definitely. And how do you support parents
• 54:31
  who come to you with this feeling of shame and guilt?
• 54:36
  I think a lot of it is validation and, and I love that
• 54:39
  part of what I do. You know, I started doing these
• 54:42
  parent support groups, I started doing them at work, I started
• 54:45
  doing them in local, in local schools.
• 54:48
  And I think the biggest thing, the most effective thing for so
• 54:52
  many of us who are feeling lost and isolated is just being with
• 54:57
  somebody who understands. You know, whether it's one
• 55:01
  single person on a Zoom call or whether it's a group of 100
• 55:05
  people in a, in a community centre, wherever it is feeling
• 55:10
  like we other people understand what we're going through.
• 55:14
  I think that is so empowering because that's almost the 1st
• 55:20
  shift that we get in our mind where we think this isn't me,
• 55:24
  I'm not the only person. I we, there was a local support
• 55:28
  group close to me that I went to and it was a 2 hour support
• 55:33
  group. Like a little coffee morning and
• 55:36
  the first time I went I spent the the full 2 hours just
• 55:40
  sitting and crying. And I think that it was a
• 55:43
  combination of one feeling. Finally I'm in a room with other
• 55:49
  people who are going through what I'm going through.
• 55:51
  These people get it. I'm not making this up, but I
• 55:55
  think there was another part of it where I felt like I felt it
• 55:59
  may be a bit hopeless because I thought this is it now for life.
• 56:02
  I just have to keep coming to these events and sitting and
• 56:06
  crying for two hours. So I think that that first one,
• 56:09
  for me, it was, it was so validating, but also it was a
• 56:13
  little bit like, oh crikey, is this it now?
• 56:16
  You know, is this what my life has become?
• 56:19
  And of course, that's not the case because the very next week
• 56:22
  when I went back to that same coffee morning, I went with a
• 56:25
  completely different outlook. I thought, I can't wait to get
• 56:29
  back into that room with other people who know what I'm going
• 56:32
  through. Because when we can connect with
• 56:34
  other people who get it, we it just, it's just a weight off our
• 56:39
  shoulders. We no longer feel like we're
• 56:41
  isolated in this. We no longer feel like
• 56:44
  everybody's judging me because we know that at least those
• 56:47
  people in that room or that one person on the Zoom call, at
• 56:50
  least they're not judging us. And I just think it helps to
• 56:54
  validate. So that's, that's one of the
• 56:56
  very first things that I do, you know, every single coaching call
• 56:59
  or every time I meet a new person out, I aim to, or anytime
• 57:03
  anybody sends me Adm or whatever it is that that we do on
• 57:07
  Instagram, I just want them to feel like they're not alone and
• 57:11
  it's not their fault and. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 57:15
  I, I totally relate to that. I think it wasn't until I went
• 57:20
  to the first coffee morning as a parent that I opened my mind and
• 57:24
  I felt a lot more validated and I stopped being in in denial.
• 57:28
  So for me, it was life changing. And then I also had the chance
• 57:32
  to meet the first autistic adult who I've met in my life.
• 57:38
  And that gave me a lot of hope. You know, if that's Dee who
• 57:43
  collaborates a lot with me, she's the the founder of autism
• 57:48
  champion, Autism champion. Sorry, you might have seen on on
• 57:51
  social media. And she gave me so much hope,
• 57:54
  you know, just being herself. And, you know, I started
• 57:58
  thinking, OK, my daughter will be.
• 58:00
  She can be cool like that one day, absolutely, because.
• 58:04
  That is, that is a really good point because as I say, when I
• 58:07
  kind of changed my whole career, I started mentoring students at
• 58:11
  university. So these are students who many
• 58:14
  of them were late diagnosed, so they weren't going through the
• 58:17
  phases that my son was going through at the time.
• 58:19
  They know they've been through those, but they hadn't received
• 58:23
  any kind of diagnosis or any kind of validation until they
• 58:26
  were much older. And you know, I was obviously
• 58:30
  they were university students, so they were people who had gone
• 58:33
  through the school system. They had somehow managed to do
• 58:36
  that, but it built up so much kind of, they were just, they
• 58:41
  were struggling so much with low self esteem because for their
• 58:44
  whole lives they'd felt like they were just different to
• 58:47
  everyone else, that they, you know, everybody else seemed to
• 58:50
  manage things and they couldn't. And it was just, they felt by
• 58:54
  the time they got to university, things got really difficult for
• 58:57
  them. So I was able to see, I felt so
• 59:01
  privileged because I was kind of able to see what the future
• 59:05
  could be and, and the things that I wanted to make sure were
• 59:09
  different for my son as he grew up.
• 59:11
  So that was one of the first times when I first started doing
• 59:14
  that job. At the time, I was still trying
• 59:17
  to keep everything kind of under wraps a little bit for my son.
• 59:20
  I wasn't really talking to him about what was going on.
• 59:23
  I was just making changes at home, doing things differently.
• 59:27
  They were all helping him, but I wasn't telling him what I was
• 59:30
  doing or why I was doing it. I was just trying to be very
• 59:33
  inclusive. And it was just, this is how we
• 59:35
  did things in our family. But when I started working with
• 59:40
  the students, I realized how important it was that he grew up
• 59:44
  understanding himself more and understanding what kinds of
• 59:49
  things were actually helpful to him.
• 59:51
  So that as he grew, he'd be able to say, actually, I really, I
• 59:56
  could do with kind of a lot more written information about this
• 59:59
  or actually, I could really do with a quiet space to go and
• 1:00:02
  work in or actually what I could do with.
• 1:00:05
  And I thought no. And it changed my whole way of
• 1:00:08
  approaching things with him. So I started to talk to him in
• 1:00:11
  language that he could understand.
• 1:00:12
  Like as I mentioned before, we we talk about his busy brain
• 1:00:16
  because it is, it's just busy all of the time.
• 1:00:18
  And he's just really struggles to keep up with all everything
• 1:00:21
  that's going on. And he needs longer to just have
• 1:00:24
  a bit of time by himself and to just relax and recover after the
• 1:00:28
  school day or after a party or whatever it is.
• 1:00:32
  And so we started to talk about it more.
• 1:00:34
  And so he's able now to say him, as I say, he's just turned 12
• 1:00:39
  and there are times where he'll come and he'll say, mum, I just
• 1:00:42
  need some time in, in the room by myself or Mum I, I need to go
• 1:00:46
  and get my ear defenders. Everything's a bit noisy at the
• 1:00:49
  moment or, you know, all of those kinds of things.
• 1:00:51
  So it was, I felt really privileged to be able to kind of
• 1:00:56
  see what what can happen in the future and learn from the things
• 1:01:01
  that my students had found difficult themselves and try and
• 1:01:05
  use that to help my son. So yeah, because people have
• 1:01:08
  different ideas about that, don't they?
• 1:01:10
  Some people have very strong ideas about what we don't tell
• 1:01:13
  our children or we don't want our children to feel like they
• 1:01:15
  have a label or to feel different.
• 1:01:18
  But I think that they do feel different and sometimes not
• 1:01:22
  really understanding what that difference is.
• 1:01:25
  And the fact that the difference is fine, it's not, it's not a
• 1:01:28
  bad difference, it's just a difference.
• 1:01:31
  I think that if we can help them to feel like that more in age
• 1:01:36
  appropriate ways, you know, I'm not talking about telling them
• 1:01:39
  everything, of course, diagnosis, but in age
• 1:01:41
  appropriate ways. I, I personally feel, I
• 1:01:45
  personally feel that that's, that's a nice way for our
• 1:01:48
  children to grow. So again, I help parents to kind
• 1:01:51
  of navigate that and think about how they feel about it and what
• 1:01:54
  they're comfortable with sharing and how they might, what type of
• 1:01:57
  language they might use with their children to help them to
• 1:02:00
  understand little bits. Yeah.
• 1:02:05
  That that makes absolute sense. And yeah, I feel like, you know,
• 1:02:12
  being late diagnosed myself, I think the, the understanding is
• 1:02:18
  very important and, and you being aware of it.
• 1:02:22
  But of course there's ways of, you know, disclosing and, and,
• 1:02:26
  and dealing with your child when, when it gets to, to the
• 1:02:28
  time. In my case, for example, I, I at
• 1:02:32
  this point, because my daughter has the speech and language
• 1:02:35
  delay and we do have conversations, but in they are
• 1:02:41
  different conversations. I, I, I don't know if she has
• 1:02:45
  that understanding already. She's, she understands
• 1:02:49
  everything that you tell her. So yeah, it can be a bit more
• 1:02:53
  challenging when there are communication difficulties.
• 1:02:57
  Yeah. And you?
• 1:02:58
  Know just every different, every individual person is an
• 1:03:02
  individual person. And I say all the time to
• 1:03:05
  parents that you are the expert for your child and I can give
• 1:03:10
  you little bits of kind of theory and help you to
• 1:03:13
  understand what might be going on under the surface.
• 1:03:15
  But I am never going to tell you what to do with your child.
• 1:03:19
  I might make some suggestions about things that you can try
• 1:03:22
  and then I'm I will work with you to try and make that fit.
• 1:03:26
  Maybe if you say, well, I don't think that bit would work, we
• 1:03:29
  can re kind of reframe it, but we are experts with our own
• 1:03:34
  children and when we can start, when we can pause the meltdowns
• 1:03:38
  and finally get a little bit of clarity.
• 1:03:41
  The, the, when we talk about the invisible distress that our
• 1:03:45
  children have, there are actually when we kind of tune
• 1:03:49
  into our children and connect with them more often, there are
• 1:03:53
  visible signs. There are things that that we
• 1:03:56
  can see literally with our eyes or we can pick up with, with our
• 1:03:59
  ears. There are actually some
• 1:04:02
  sometimes some triggers. So for example, my son gets very
• 1:04:05
  itchy. So I know when he starts to itch
• 1:04:08
  or he'll start to like move his hands in a particular way.
• 1:04:11
  I know where that's come from because I've been able to go
• 1:04:15
  right back to basics and strip everything down.
• 1:04:17
  I've been able to pause and I've been able to notice the signs.
• 1:04:21
  And so sometimes things actually do become very clear and almost
• 1:04:27
  visible when we know what it is that we're looking for.
• 1:04:34
  OK. And this question is related to
• 1:04:37
  to what we were we were talking about just now because you you
• 1:04:42
  support parents with children who may be diagnosed or in the
• 1:04:46
  pathway or not diagnosed at all. So why do you think early
• 1:04:50
  understanding is is so important and how does it make a
• 1:04:54
  difference? Yeah, I think that for me, I
• 1:04:58
  always say, obviously that diagnosis might be helpful for
• 1:05:03
  certain things. It might mean that we can get
• 1:05:05
  access to different supports through schools or the local
• 1:05:08
  authority or medical interventions, things like that.
• 1:05:11
  So diagnosis can be helpful in that way.
• 1:05:14
  But for me, diagnosis really is the least important part of the
• 1:05:17
  whole thing because, you know, diagnosis doesn't suddenly
• 1:05:21
  change everything. It doesn't change anything at
• 1:05:23
  all. In fact, so you know, it
• 1:05:26
  certainly doesn't come with a manual.
• 1:05:28
  So you, you know, especially when we talk about the autism
• 1:05:30
  diagnosis, it's literally when you're diagnosed, you are
• 1:05:34
  literally discharged in the same meeting.
• 1:05:37
  So you're told, yes, your child is autistic now bye, bye.
• 1:05:42
  It's literally a discharge. They tell you that they are
• 1:05:44
  discharging you because it's an assessment service.
• 1:05:47
  And so it's literally then you're off on your own.
• 1:05:50
  So the diagnosis for me is far less important than the parent
• 1:05:57
  knowing that there is something different because for such a
• 1:06:01
  long time I just knew something was different.
• 1:06:04
  My son was just having these huge emotional outbursts for
• 1:06:08
  things that they just, it was so disproportionate.
• 1:06:11
  So a tiny thing would happen and he would have this huge
• 1:06:16
  emotional response that it just didn't match the thing that
• 1:06:21
  happened. And for such a long time I was
• 1:06:23
  just like, I don't understand that.
• 1:06:25
  I don't understand why this is happening.
• 1:06:27
  And of course, this is emotional regulation and it's something
• 1:06:30
  that is a huge struggle because it all stems from the nervous
• 1:06:33
  system response. So I was saying there's
• 1:06:38
  something different. There's something different.
• 1:06:39
  And people around me were saying, no, he's fine.
• 1:06:42
  No, he's fine. It's not.
• 1:06:44
  But I knew, I knew that there was something different.
• 1:06:47
  And so understanding earlier as early as possible, it just helps
• 1:06:54
  us to maybe try some things that maybe helps us to just help
• 1:06:59
  create that calm connection earlier on so that we don't get
• 1:07:04
  to the point where we are so set in our Groundhog days of, you
• 1:07:11
  know, horrible experience that we don't get to that point.
• 1:07:16
  So, you know, some of the things that I do are really just trying
• 1:07:20
  to like I have a free master class, which is called the seven
• 1:07:23
  Aha moments to help parents. So just think differently about
• 1:07:27
  then you're a divergent meltdowns because I think that
• 1:07:30
  if you kind of start to become aware of some of the things that
• 1:07:36
  you can look out for actually that can trigger meltdowns, then
• 1:07:40
  you can start to think, Oh, all right, there might be, oh, OK,
• 1:07:43
  there might be something going on here.
• 1:07:44
  Oh, this is happening and so is this and so is this and these
• 1:07:47
  are all kind of potential signs. So I think that the more the
• 1:07:51
  more we can be aware of, the earlier that we can be aware of
• 1:07:54
  them. I think it's helpful.
• 1:07:56
  And essentially everything we do that is neuroaffirmative, all of
• 1:08:01
  these neuroaffirmative practices, they are just
• 1:08:04
  basically we call them trauma informed practices.
• 1:08:07
  You know they they are just leading with connection before
• 1:08:13
  correction. And so if your child isn't
• 1:08:16
  diagnosed or doesn't meet the diagnosis criteria, it's not
• 1:08:19
  that these techniques and strategies don't work with them.
• 1:08:23
  In fact, they are very likely to work with them.
• 1:08:26
  So understanding I'm trying to put things in place are really
• 1:08:30
  helpful. And plus, when it does come to
• 1:08:32
  if you are seeking diagnosis or are you seeking some kind of
• 1:08:37
  educational healthcare plan, the more kind of the more strategies
• 1:08:42
  that you can kind of show that you've tried this and you've
• 1:08:45
  tried this. And if we can see that this is a
• 1:08:47
  challenge and this is a challenge, the more we can know,
• 1:08:50
  the more we've got to kind of report back on.
• 1:08:53
  So that can be helpful when we're dealing with schools, when
• 1:08:56
  we're dealing with local authorities or the NHS or
• 1:08:59
  whatever. And those kinds of things can be
• 1:09:02
  helpful. So the more the more help, the
• 1:09:04
  more information we have, the more the better prepared we are
• 1:09:08
  to deal with these things. But like I say, it's difficult
• 1:09:11
  sometimes to take on all of that information when we're just
• 1:09:14
  feeling so overwhelmed. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:09:19
  And speaking about systems, how what would the more inclusive
• 1:09:23
  and compassionate support system be for families?
• 1:09:28
  How how do you how how do you feel that or how do you think
• 1:09:35
  the systems could be better to support families with neuro
• 1:09:40
  divergent children? It's a hot topic, Big.
• 1:09:43
  Question I probably won't be able to answer that one fully,
• 1:09:46
  but I think that I, I feel like the connection or the, the, the
• 1:09:55
  relationship between school and home is really, really key
• 1:09:59
  because for so many of our children, school is where many
• 1:10:06
  of their challenges start to present or, you know, many of
• 1:10:11
  these things start to really become difficult for them when
• 1:10:13
  they get to school. And many of our children will
• 1:10:17
  manage to get through the earliest stages of, you know,
• 1:10:20
  nursery and being at home and those kinds of things.
• 1:10:22
  But when they go into that school environment, things get
• 1:10:24
  really difficult. And so one of the things that I
• 1:10:27
  personally really want to support with is that the school,
• 1:10:33
  the school's level of understanding, because as a
• 1:10:35
  teacher myself, I understand that, you know, we did have
• 1:10:39
  training. There was some elements of
• 1:10:41
  training, but they didn't prepare me for what I went
• 1:10:45
  through myself. And so I felt very kind of, I
• 1:10:50
  feel very passionately that there is a lot more that I can
• 1:10:53
  do to help schools to understand more about these triggers, to
• 1:10:57
  help learn and support assistants and classroom
• 1:11:00
  teachers to understand more about the hidden triggers of
• 1:11:04
  meltdowns so that they can put more things in place during the
• 1:11:08
  school day to prevent the huge meltdowns that the child feels
• 1:11:13
  that they have when they get home.
• 1:11:15
  Because that was certainly my experience and being greeted at
• 1:11:19
  the school gate every single day, being told that he was
• 1:11:22
  fine. It would, you know, the panic
• 1:11:25
  would rise in me at that moment because I would think if he's
• 1:11:29
  been fine in school, then I know I am in for a tough ride
• 1:11:33
  tonight. And I would beg sometimes I
• 1:11:35
  would literally, I mean, before I knew what I was doing, I'd be
• 1:11:38
  yelling in his face. I'd be saying, do this at
• 1:11:41
  school, say these things to miss if you, if you hate PE so much,
• 1:11:46
  say this to miss. Stop saying it to me.
• 1:11:49
  And I would be begging him to just go and do this to somebody
• 1:11:54
  else, make somebody else feel the way he was making me feel.
• 1:11:57
  So for me, this idea that when we pick our children up from
• 1:12:02
  school or learn support assistants or our classroom
• 1:12:04
  teachers are saying, oh, it's fine.
• 1:12:06
  He's had a great day. It's the worst thing that they
• 1:12:09
  can say and it comes from a good place.
• 1:12:11
  They want to give us good news. They want to.
• 1:12:14
  They want to make us feel happy and proud of our children.
• 1:12:17
  But that's not how it feels when day in, day out, we know that
• 1:12:23
  that is not true. And if I can help schools to
• 1:12:29
  understand more around some of these hidden triggers about how
• 1:12:32
  we can kind of what emotional regulation looks like, around
• 1:12:37
  how we can help children to breakdown tasks to stop them
• 1:12:41
  being so overwhelmed, what sensory processing actually
• 1:12:44
  looks like for them, and how we can support our children more
• 1:12:48
  than it might. Again, have that impact.
• 1:12:52
  Well, it will have an impact on the children, but it will also
• 1:12:54
  have an impact on the family because the child is more
• 1:12:57
  supported at school. So in terms of the kind of the
• 1:13:00
  bigger question that you said, there's so much more that can be
• 1:13:03
  done. I mean, the whole education
• 1:13:05
  system needs a complete overhaul there.
• 1:13:08
  There are just so many children in classrooms.
• 1:13:11
  There is so much demand placed on children now back, you know,
• 1:13:16
  back when I was going through my primary education, I wasn't
• 1:13:19
  having to do all of the things that they were having to do, you
• 1:13:22
  know, and the pressure on the children now and the pressure on
• 1:13:27
  the teachers now to get the children to do all of these
• 1:13:30
  things. It's just absolutely bonkers as
• 1:13:32
  far as I'm concerned. You know, I managed to get
• 1:13:35
  through life and have quite a successful career even despite
• 1:13:39
  the fact that, you know, I didn't, I wasn't taught all, you
• 1:13:43
  know, what a prefronted adverbial, etcetera, etcetera
• 1:13:47
  was. I don't know what 1 is.
• 1:13:48
  And I've managed to get quite far in life.
• 1:13:51
  So I think that the things that are being expected of children
• 1:13:54
  much earlier on now, I don't think that's helping at all.
• 1:13:58
  I think that they're too overwhelmed too early.
• 1:14:01
  And so we're seeing the signs of this distress much earlier than
• 1:14:06
  perhaps we did in the past. And so that's kind of a much
• 1:14:09
  bigger question to answer. But I think that I would like,
• 1:14:12
  and I, I feel like perhaps I can have a little bit of an impact
• 1:14:15
  on just that day-to-day school practice and helping learning
• 1:14:20
  support assistants and teachers to just understand a little bit
• 1:14:22
  more about the experience that we go through as parents.
• 1:14:27
  And, and why sometimes we might be crying in the head teachers
• 1:14:30
  office when we drop our child off or why we might be getting a
• 1:14:34
  bit angry and, and frustrated on the phone because we don't know
• 1:14:37
  what's going on. And we're so frustrated and we
• 1:14:40
  feel judgement from if I can help schools to understand more
• 1:14:44
  about our experience and more about what's happening to the
• 1:14:48
  children without them realizing, then perhaps I can have a little
• 1:14:52
  bit of an impact with for neurodivergent families.
• 1:14:56
  I'm sure you can. I'm sure you can.
• 1:14:59
  I think we each of us making our small parts, hopefully we'll
• 1:15:04
  have a better future. And if you were to give advice
• 1:15:11
  to any parents listening or watching who might be feeling
• 1:15:16
  overwhelmed or at a breaking point, what would you want them
• 1:15:20
  to hear? That this is not your fault,
• 1:15:24
  this is not your fault and things can get better.
• 1:15:29
  And I think that there's one real mindset shift that I, I
• 1:15:34
  kind of turned into a mantra really for me.
• 1:15:39
  And it, I suppose it really underpins what I do now and kind
• 1:15:44
  of underpins the pause method. And it is really when our
• 1:15:48
  children are melting down and when we're seeing this behaviour
• 1:15:51
  in inverted commas that is making us so triggered.
• 1:15:56
  The mantra for me was he is not giving me a hard time.
• 1:16:01
  He is having a hard time and repeating that in my head when
• 1:16:08
  the moment of meltdown was happening really just helped me
• 1:16:13
  to move into that. How can I help him phase as
• 1:16:17
  opposed to I'm going to be cross with him and this is all too
• 1:16:22
  much for me. So you can things can change.
• 1:16:27
  We need to do things differently.
• 1:16:31
  If we do things differently, we can change.
• 1:16:33
  And it all starts with that mindset shift that we can
• 1:16:38
  change. This is not about me.
• 1:16:40
  He's not doing this because he hates me, because he wants to
• 1:16:43
  ruin my day. He's doing it because he's
• 1:16:46
  having a hard time. And even if I don't know why
• 1:16:49
  he's having a hard time and I can't understand it and I can't
• 1:16:51
  see why it's happening, it is happening.
• 1:16:55
  So I can move forward differently if I accept that.
• 1:17:00
  So, yeah. So my message is things can
• 1:17:03
  change, but they change when we change.
• 1:17:08
  And we need to be ready to to just do something different.
• 1:17:13
  And that something different doesn't need to be to go back to
• 1:17:15
  university and learn everything there is to do about
• 1:17:19
  neurodivergence and special educational needs.
• 1:17:22
  It just needs to be some simple shifts that we can make to our
• 1:17:26
  lives, can help to calm the situation and help us to feel
• 1:17:30
  better. Yeah, one step at a time,
• 1:17:33
  definitely. Thank you, very helpful advice.
• 1:17:38
  And now moving on to your inner journey.
• 1:17:40
  I'm. I'm worried about.
• 1:17:42
  This question which is the final part of of the interview.
• 1:17:47
  So who is your biggest support on your journey?
• 1:17:51
  I'd have to say that my husband is because he's been there.
• 1:17:57
  You know, he's there every day. He has a really tough job
• 1:18:00
  himself. He works in a secondary school.
• 1:18:02
  And you know, it was really hard for him when things were really
• 1:18:06
  hard because he was dealing with a lot of kinds of challenges at
• 1:18:10
  school. And then he'd come home and it
• 1:18:11
  would be 10 times worse at home. But he's always been there and
• 1:18:16
  he's been a real support. And I think that not to get too
• 1:18:20
  deep with this question, but I think that so many, in so many
• 1:18:23
  families, there is a default parent and that kind of
• 1:18:27
  everything, all of the learning and all of the changing falls to
• 1:18:30
  that parent. And often that parent then just
• 1:18:33
  feels even more overwhelmed because they then have to start
• 1:18:36
  teaching their partner all of the things that they've learned.
• 1:18:40
  And so, yeah, there have been times where I've kind of had to
• 1:18:44
  be like, this is what we're doing.
• 1:18:45
  This is why we're doing it. But bless him, he has always
• 1:18:49
  gone along with what I've said. He's always let me lead.
• 1:18:52
  And he's kind of not giving me, not quizzing me all the time.
• 1:18:55
  Why are we doing this? What?
• 1:18:56
  What Yesterday we were doing something else.
• 1:18:57
  Now why are we doing this? And he's kind of supported me
• 1:19:01
  and said, OK, that's fine, we'll do it, we'll do it this way,
• 1:19:04
  which is kind, which has been really helpful to me.
• 1:19:07
  So he has been my biggest support.
• 1:19:09
  And then I have, I do have a lovely support network and I'm
• 1:19:11
  very, very, very lucky that my best friend from when I was aged
• 1:19:16
  3, she's actually a mental healthcare practitioner.
• 1:19:20
  So she has been a great person for me to come to and say, look,
• 1:19:25
  this is what's happening. You know, why is this happening?
• 1:19:29
  What is he doing? And so she's been able to
• 1:19:32
  certainly in the early stages, she was able to explain things
• 1:19:36
  to me and kind of point me in the right direction of support
• 1:19:38
  that might be helpful for him and for me.
• 1:19:41
  So she's, she's wonderful as well.
• 1:19:44
  That's great. Yeah.
• 1:19:45
  I think with with our partner or husband, it's very important
• 1:19:48
  that you are on the same page and we all need a friend to, you
• 1:19:53
  know, if, if they can be experts in, in any area that's helpful
• 1:19:58
  to us. That's that's great.
• 1:20:02
  And how do you treat yourself with regards to your well-being?
• 1:20:05
  Any hobbies, anything you do for yourself?
• 1:20:08
  Yeah, I do try and setting up a new business, as you well know,
• 1:20:12
  it's very overwhelming in itself.
• 1:20:14
  So I've, I'm finding myself at the moment with less time to do
• 1:20:18
  things, but I like to walk, I like to just go.
• 1:20:20
  We've got some lovely parks local to me.
• 1:20:23
  So I like to, whenever I'm able to like do the school run and
• 1:20:27
  then I'll go and have a walk in the fresh air walking around the
• 1:20:30
  park. That, that is something that I
• 1:20:32
  try as much as I can to fit into my routine and, and for me, just
• 1:20:39
  recognising the signs of when things are becoming overwhelmed.
• 1:20:43
  That's a really important thing that I do for my well-being.
• 1:20:46
  Just being mindful and kind of trying to nip things in the bud.
• 1:20:51
  If I feel like right, I'm feeling very tired or I'm
• 1:20:54
  feeling like I need to isolate myself, I'll kind of go, OK,
• 1:20:58
  what's happening? What is what is causing me this
• 1:21:01
  distress? Is there something that I can
• 1:21:02
  get rid of? I'm quite good at getting rid of
• 1:21:06
  things off my plate. I'm quite good at kind of going
• 1:21:08
  that is not helpful to me. I do not need to put any of my
• 1:21:11
  energy into that particular thing at the moment and trying
• 1:21:14
  to delete certain things off my To Do List.
• 1:21:17
  That's something that I, yeah, I feel quite strongly about.
• 1:21:23
  I yeah, I wish I was a bit more like that.
• 1:21:27
  I mean, I go through phases, let's, you know, let's be honest
• 1:21:30
  here. But yeah, I try and drink water,
• 1:21:34
  but even that sometimes goes out the window.
• 1:21:37
  Yeah, you just forget about it, isn't it?
• 1:21:39
  When I was in the classroom when I was teaching all the time, I
• 1:21:42
  drink loads of water because I'd be talking all the time, but at
• 1:21:45
  the moment it's not quite the same.
• 1:21:48
  Yeah, it takes some time to get to embed drinking water into
• 1:21:53
  your new routine, so, yeah. And who is your biggest
• 1:21:57
  inspiration? Goodness me, that is a really
• 1:22:02
  difficult question. My mum, I think probably she's,
• 1:22:09
  we know we talked about support before.
• 1:22:11
  She's a really big part of my support network and she's just
• 1:22:16
  somebody who's dealt with an awful lot in her life and she's
• 1:22:18
  dealt with it with such grace. And she's she's very calm.
• 1:22:23
  She's calmer than me. I think I've got a combination
• 1:22:26
  of hers and my dad's. My dad's a bit more energetic
• 1:22:28
  and so I'm kind of in the middle, but she's very calm.
• 1:22:33
  And so there are so many times where I know that I need a
• 1:22:37
  little pep talk from my mum and I'll phone her.
• 1:22:39
  I'll say this is happening. You need to talk me down.
• 1:22:42
  And yes. So she's a, she's a real
• 1:22:44
  inspiration. She's hard working, she's got
• 1:22:47
  very strong values and she has a lot of integrity.
• 1:22:53
  So she is, she's somebody that I, I do aspire to be like.
• 1:22:57
  She, she works hard and she does the right thing for she's very
• 1:23:02
  caring about other people. And these are the things that I
• 1:23:05
  want to be able to do. She does a good job of looking
• 1:23:08
  after people. Yeah, and you are doing that too
• 1:23:11
  now. So that's.
• 1:23:13
  Yeah, I'm sure you are. You're not trying, you're doing
• 1:23:16
  it already. And if you were a superhero or
• 1:23:19
  had a superpower, what's who or what would that be and how would
• 1:23:23
  you make it? How would you use it to make the
• 1:23:27
  world a better place for the neuro divergent community?
• 1:23:30
  Oh, a superpower, probably. Wouldn't it be lovely if we
• 1:23:37
  could go and have, give people a little bit of perspective?
• 1:23:44
  I think that would be a good superhero power to be able to,
• 1:23:48
  to just go and have a little word with people before they
• 1:23:51
  make comments. So, you know, we feel judgement
• 1:23:55
  from people often who don't know anything about our situation.
• 1:24:01
  And they say things sometimes with good intention.
• 1:24:05
  They, they want to help us. They, you know, if if there was
• 1:24:09
  a superhero power to just say in their ear, hang on, you know,
• 1:24:12
  have you thought about how you would feel if you hadn't slept
• 1:24:15
  all night or if this is the 97th meltdown that you dealt with
• 1:24:19
  today? And they might just go, oh,
• 1:24:23
  yeah, I hadn't, hadn't thought about that.
• 1:24:25
  Because most people, they say things and they have opinions.
• 1:24:28
  And it's not because they're close minded or because they
• 1:24:31
  don't care about other people. It's because they just haven't
• 1:24:34
  thought about another person's perspective.
• 1:24:38
  So yeah, I mean, I don't know how that would ever work, but
• 1:24:40
  that'd be good, wouldn't it, If you could just make something
• 1:24:43
  twice before they open their mouth.
• 1:24:45
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. And I'm, I'm thinking about that
• 1:24:48
  idea of, you know, put yourself in someone else's shoes, which,
• 1:24:53
  you know, it might not work because we all have our own
• 1:24:56
  unique experiences, but maybe there should be some special
• 1:25:00
  shoes that you could give to people.
• 1:25:06
  So, yeah, I love it. Yeah.
• 1:25:08
  That's, that's a really good one.
• 1:25:10
  And music, I don't know if you are, if you consume music a lot,
• 1:25:16
  but is there a song that you feel like that captures your,
• 1:25:19
  your journey as a parent or you know, as just yourself?
• 1:25:27
  I don't think there is one single song, but there was a
• 1:25:29
  song that was trending on Instagram at the time where I
• 1:25:34
  was really kind of moving full time into Sensory Mother and I
• 1:25:38
  was terrified about it. So I was leaving a stable and
• 1:25:42
  secure job and moving into this world of self-employment and I
• 1:25:47
  was just absolutely terrified. And at the time, the Desiree
• 1:25:50
  song, you've got to be, you've got to be bad.
• 1:25:52
  You've got to be bolder, you've got to be wiser, hard, tough,
• 1:25:55
  stronger. And then in the end, she says,
• 1:26:00
  all I know, all I know love will save the day.
• 1:26:03
  And I think that that was really nice at that time, I was
• 1:26:07
  thinking, I feel so passionately about what I'm doing.
• 1:26:11
  And I feel so passionately about, you know, this all came
• 1:26:14
  from a place of me trying to pull my family back together.
• 1:26:17
  It was all about the love that had for my child, even when it
• 1:26:22
  didn't feel like love, even when our home didn't feel like a safe
• 1:26:26
  place. Everything came from that place
• 1:26:29
  of me just wanting desperately to have this family where we all
• 1:26:33
  loved each other and we all felt safe with each other.
• 1:26:36
  And so I think that that song, you know, as I say it was
• 1:26:40
  trending at that time and I was thinking, do you know what that
• 1:26:43
  is? I am, I'm making a bold move
• 1:26:46
  here, but it's all because I just want to do things
• 1:26:50
  differently and I want to make a difference.
• 1:26:52
  And it all comes from that. Just holding families together
• 1:26:56
  because, you know, like I say, I'd like to think that I can
• 1:26:59
  help parents before they hit rock bottom, but the reality is
• 1:27:02
  that it often takes you hitting rock bottom before you even
• 1:27:06
  reach out for any help. So yeah, it's all about pulling
• 1:27:11
  families together. Yeah.
• 1:27:13
  So maybe, maybe that's a good song.
• 1:27:15
  Yeah, I think that's a perfect song, really.
• 1:27:18
  And if you had the chance to go back in time, what would you
• 1:27:21
  tell your younger self? I would tell my younger self
• 1:27:26
  that any kind of plans that I was making or any ideas about
• 1:27:31
  what life was going to look like, they really didn't matter.
• 1:27:35
  You know, I've had, I've moved from secondary teaching into
• 1:27:39
  university teaching. And then I changed a completely
• 1:27:42
  different role in university. I had a family that didn't look
• 1:27:46
  anything like the family that I thought it was going to look
• 1:27:49
  like. And now I'm now I'm doing this.
• 1:27:52
  So I just think that there are so many, kind of, I just thought
• 1:27:56
  I'd probably be a teacher for the rest of my life and that
• 1:27:59
  would be it. And then I'd have this family
• 1:28:01
  where every, you know, all my children were perfectly behaved
• 1:28:03
  and everything would be perfect. And it just doesn't work out
• 1:28:07
  that way, does it? Life happens.
• 1:28:10
  What John Lennon said, Liverpool reference John Lennon said life
• 1:28:14
  is what happens when you're busy making other plans.
• 1:28:17
  That's true, yeah. Yeah, definitely.
• 1:28:21
  And finally, if your heart had a voice, what would they tell us?
• 1:28:28
  If my heart had a voice, it would tell us that the only
• 1:28:35
  thing that matters in life is that you have people around you
• 1:28:38
  that love you and that you love back.
• 1:28:41
  That it's about the people in our lives.
• 1:28:44
  And, you know, at the time where things were really difficult for
• 1:28:47
  us and I thought I was never, I wasn't going to be able to work.
• 1:28:50
  I wasn't going to be able to go back to work.
• 1:28:52
  And in order for us to live in our home, we needed my income.
• 1:28:56
  And, and at that time I just thought, you know what, we, we
• 1:29:01
  just have to go and live in a different house then because,
• 1:29:05
  you know, the, the things that we have in life are nowhere near
• 1:29:10
  as important as the people that we have in our life.
• 1:29:12
  So, you know, holding on to those material things or those
• 1:29:18
  material ideas, that's not what's important.
• 1:29:23
  I've forgotten what your question was.
• 1:29:24
  What would my heart tell tell us?
• 1:29:26
  My heart would say that love and being with people who love you
• 1:29:32
  and who you love, that is the most important thing.
• 1:29:34
  So the rest of the stuff just fits around that and and that's
• 1:29:39
  what we need to do. And that's, that is definitely
• 1:29:41
  where sensory mother came from because I hit the point where I
• 1:29:44
  thought that we were going to have to separate our family.
• 1:29:47
  And it's not an uncommon thought.
• 1:29:49
  Many parents come to me and say that they are, that is what
• 1:29:53
  they're thinking. That they're thinking that they
• 1:29:55
  are going to have to separate their family because they can't
• 1:29:58
  live in the same house together. Or their relationship with their
• 1:30:01
  child has become so bad that they can't live like this and
• 1:30:05
  their relationship with their partner is suffering as a
• 1:30:08
  result. And so that's what my heart
• 1:30:12
  would say. There is a way, if we love
• 1:30:14
  enough, there's a way to make things right.
• 1:30:17
  And if we all have to move into, you know, tents, then then
• 1:30:21
  that's what we have to do, you know, because the people are
• 1:30:23
  more important. Yeah, yeah, definitely love.
• 1:30:27
  Hard. I'm sorry, right.
• 1:30:34
  Thank you so much, Laura. It was such a pleasure to meet
• 1:30:37
  you and hear all about your story, the sensory mother.
• 1:30:41
  And yeah, I'm looking forward to share the story with with the
• 1:30:46
  audience and also to stay in touch and, you know, potentially
• 1:30:50
  do some small collaborations even though we live miles apart,
• 1:30:53
  but that would be great. So we'll definitely stay in
• 1:30:56
  touch. Well.
• 1:30:57
  Thank you so much for having me. It's been a real pleasure.
• 1:31:00
  Thank you. You're most welcome.
• 1:31:02
  Thank you. Thank you for listening or
• 1:31:24
  watching the Neuro Diverse Voices Podcast.
• 1:31:26
  If today's conversation resonated with you, please know
• 1:31:31
  that you are not alone. Your experience matters, your
• 1:31:35
  voice matters, and your way of being in the world is valid.
• 1:31:40
  I'm Andrea Costa and this podcast exists to celebrate
• 1:31:44
  neural divergent lives in all their complexity, strength, and
• 1:31:48
  individuality. If you enjoy this episode,
• 1:31:51
  please subscribe, share it, and help these stories reach the
• 1:31:55
  people who may need them the most.
• 1:31:58
  Join me again next time for more honest conversations, powerful
• 1:32:02
  stories, and diverse perspectives.
• 1:32:05
  Because every neuro divergent journey is different.
• 1:32:09
  And remember, when you meet one neuro divergent person, you've
• 1:32:12
  only met one neuro divergent person.
• 1:32:16
  Until next time, take care, bye.