Latest / AI for Founders with Ryan Estes / Why your ‘Great Idea’ Is quietly killing your startup

Transcript

Why your ‘Great Idea’ Is quietly killing your startup · AI for Founders with Ryan Estes

0:00
All right, hot take. If you're vibe coding an MVP and
0:02
calling it a startup, you're probably just building an
0:04
expensive demo for your own ego. Because here's the painful
0:08
truth. Most founders fall in love with
0:10
the idea, hide from customers and then act shocked when nobody
0:13
clicks. Buy your product is not your
0:16
baby, it's a bet and the market is a ruthless judge.
0:19
Mike Vitaez is a machine learning trained builder and Co
0:22
founder of Saturnia Design and his whole thing is this
0:26
execution is 99%. Ideas are one 1%.
0:31
He shows up when founders are stuck in the messy middle.
0:33
You've got a scrappy MVP, maybe some users, maybe chaos.
0:37
And now it's outgrowing your ability to duct tape it.
0:41
And here's the founder cheat code you can steal today instead
0:44
of burning six months building from scratch.
0:47
Run a third party truth audit. Have someone else interview
0:51
users, watch them struggle, extract patterns and hand you
0:54
the brutal prioritized action list.
0:57
Not features you feel proud of. Bottlenecks that are literally
1:00
blocking revenue because asking customers yourself can feel like
1:04
getting punched in the identity. You hear what's broken, you feel
1:07
exposed, you want to defend it. A neutral outsider gets the
1:11
honest truth without the emotional land mines.
1:14
So here's the question that should mess with you a little.
1:16
Are you building what people will pay for or what makes you
1:19
feel like a founder? Welcome to AI for Founders.
1:23
I'm Ryan Estes. If you're a founder with an
1:25
MVPA, no code product or a half working tool that's getting
1:28
traction but not conversion, you're about to learn how real
1:31
product teams validate, prioritize, and scale without
1:35
lighting your runway on fire. Want more ideas that punch above
1:38
their weight? Get the AI for
1:40
foundersnewsletter@aiforfounders.co. It's where we turn messy founder
1:45
problems into clean, unfair advantages.
1:47
If your brain likes big leverage and fast learning, you'll feel
1:50
right at home. And if you get value from this
1:53
kind of thinking, leave a quick podcast review.
1:55
Think of it like tipping the algorithm so it keeps feeding
1:58
founders. Now, founders, if your product
2:01
is solid but your pipeline is not, you don't need another
2:04
tweak. You need distribution.
2:06
Kitcaster helps founders get booked on the exact podcast
2:09
their buyers already trust. Not random shows.
2:12
Not vanity. Real audiences.
2:14
Real decision makers. And here's what changes when
2:16
you're a guest instead of an ad. You get to tell your story with
2:19
emotion. You build trust in minutes, not
2:22
months. You create demand while you
2:23
sleep. Because podcasts Compound Kick
2:26
Caster is the system. We find the right shows, pitch
2:29
you, book you, prep you, and help you sound like the smartest
2:32
person in the room without being weird about it.
2:35
And the best part? Every interview becomes content
2:38
for your newsletter, LinkedIn, sales team, and retargeting.
2:41
One conversation turns into an entire marketing engine.
2:45
If you're serious founder and you're tired of shouting into
2:47
the void, go get booked. Kick Caster makes you the one
2:50
people remember. That's Kick caster.com by MO
2:53
Burst. Mike, welcome to the show.
3:11
Thank you so much for joining me.
3:14
Thank you for inviting me. Happy to be here, Ryan.
3:17
Absolutely. My pleasure.
3:19
Now I'm really excited to talk to you because you're in product
3:22
development and you're very interested in business outcomes
3:25
for people that have ideas. Now, we talk a lot about ideas
3:29
on this podcast, largely because this is the new era of the ideas
3:34
person. You know, there's never been a
3:36
better time when you can create an MVP and bring something to
3:40
market and see if you can get traction than the tools that are
3:43
at your disposal now. I think what the, the, there's a
3:47
missing bridge, which is like, I've got an MVP.
3:51
I've got a, a vibe coded tool that has customers, but it's
3:54
starting to get out of my abilities and capabilities.
3:59
I need to go find someone to like make this legitimate and
4:02
help me. And it sounds like you're that
4:05
guy. So, Mike, please give us kind of
4:07
an overview of kind of your business and kind of how your
4:10
career has gone so far. Right.
4:12
OK, so let's start from the beginning.
4:15
I graduated originally as a computer scientist and I was
4:19
specialized to machine learning algorithms.
4:22
So as they call it to the AI. Basically I wrote my thesis
4:26
around that. So I was really deep into the
4:28
topic. I was doing big data algorithms.
4:31
I wrote my own big data algorithms and questioning
4:34
algorithms back in the days before these NLPS and AIS are
4:38
coming out. And I, I started my first
4:42
software development company when I, when I was graduating at
4:45
university, which I have turned to this product development
4:49
company later. And basically what we have seen
4:53
in the market in the last 210 years, sorry that software
4:58
development was a thing 10 years ago because that was the time
5:01
when frameworks were just rising.
5:03
Most of the people were native coding.
5:06
Everything was new, like mentioning something, OK, that
5:08
we can, it was a JavaScript framework when everyone was wow,
5:12
or, or we can use a docker and then goes wow.
5:14
OK, that's a thing. So it was where you know what a
5:17
where you know what this space. And it was very great to be in
5:20
this space, But times, times changed and and we saw that we
5:26
need to and also working with the client, not just time
5:29
change, but we saw working with the client that we should focus
5:32
on the business goals inside, just on the software goals.
5:35
And we made a lot of connections and a lot of experience around
5:39
UXAUI development and that's how we certainly designed the
5:42
company, which I will Co founder of born and that's what we are
5:48
doing today. And how we work with clients is
5:50
we become as an external party of theirs.
5:53
Typically there are two typical kind of funders that we are
5:57
working with. The first ones, as you said,
6:00
very typical, they have kind of an MVP or they have an A product
6:03
line that they are developing and they want to extend it.
6:07
Or the second one that they have AB design and they want to do B
6:10
and they don't have the insight in house capacity.
6:12
So there's a bridge as just as you said between the phase that
6:16
OK, you can scale up your internal team and hire up more,
6:20
hire more people, which not necessarily only means that you
6:26
have to hire software developers because you have to hire UX
6:30
specialist market, especially market research specialist,
6:33
designers, marketers, business developers.
6:36
So a bunch of stuff and you don't have the cash.
6:39
And that's how we come to the picture because we say that, OK,
6:42
guys, you have, let's say you have a specification, A
6:46
specification, it can be one line.
6:49
For example, we had a client last year, I tell you what was
6:53
the full specification? We need the launchpad and it's
6:55
over. So basically they had the one
6:57
centre specification. And we said that's absolutely
6:59
fine guys, because we can understand your product, we can
7:02
do workshops with you. So we had a three months of
7:06
workshops that we've been doing with them together, how to build
7:09
up their products, which was understanding their market,
7:12
understanding their competitors, understanding their personas
7:16
they are aiming for as a B to CB to B company, then creating a
7:21
thesis that they can revalidate on the market.
7:24
So it's always an iterative process.
7:26
And after we have made these decisions together with the
7:28
stakeholder and the management team, we could say that, OK, now
7:31
we will start fire framing. But then we have a solid base
7:35
that we will know first what is the best business line to have
7:39
the most AY on the shortest time period and what are the things
7:43
that people want to use? And we can start testing it out
7:47
or even in the idea stage. Let's say you have this MVP.
7:51
OK, that's fine. And and you say that, OK, I've
7:54
got ABC kind of people coming to my my table from randomly.
7:59
But let's say you are measuring it, but you are not filtering
8:02
it. You are you are not doing
8:04
anything with the data. That's where we can also come
8:06
into the picture. We can see that.
8:08
OK, let's, and and then we can, we can speed up the virtual
8:11
process. We can see that, OK, let's
8:12
understand your users needs. What is the most in the
8:16
functions that you are users are using the most?
8:22
So focus on these because these are the ones that making your
8:24
business. And then let's say that these
8:26
are the top priorities. Make it the most efficient, the
8:29
most fancy way, make make the most usable focus on that.
8:35
That's where we start the wire freeing the designing part.
8:37
And then if there is a need, we can code it as well.
8:41
It, it depends because there are clients who says that OK, after
8:45
this point they will do the development part because it's
8:47
let's say it's 30% of the whole process after this because they
8:51
have all the materials that they need to develop it.
8:53
So basically they, they say that they have the inside holders,
8:56
but they have the concepts to do that.
8:59
But in most of the cases they say that, OK guys, we would like
9:02
you to stay then to develop it and that's also fine.
9:06
And also what, what we we can add to the table.
9:11
And it's very typical that if we get in a close partnership, we
9:15
try to be proactive and bring as much value as possible.
9:19
So to say, very typical that the client comes up in an idea
9:24
during the meeting that OK, I need the access to ABCD kind of
9:29
people like in the industry or outside the industry they need.
9:33
So basically they need network. And you can say that of course
9:36
we know your product, we trust you, we know who you are because
9:39
you are very dated by us. So we are happy to bring in our
9:42
network. And if we can make a connection,
9:44
that's a winning situation because every party will have
9:48
something that doesn't have right now.
9:53
This episode is brought to you by Moberst, the AI first growth
9:56
engine trusted by iconic startups like Calm, Robin Hood,
10:00
Reddit, Uber and Google. Moberst is a digital, full
10:04
service, mobile first marketing agency that helps companies to
10:08
scale and become category leaders.
10:11
Whether you're finding product market fit or ready to
10:13
accelerate growth, MO Burst delivers creative, data-driven
10:17
solutions that help with scale and efficiency and impact.
10:21
At MO Burst, we're not just guessing what works, we're
10:24
predicting it. As an AI first agency, MO Burst
10:27
uses cutting edge tools to analyze user behavior, adapt
10:31
creative in real time, and uncover hidden growth
10:34
opportunities. The result?
10:36
Marketing that's faster, smarter, and built to convert
10:39
from early stage startups to global brands.
10:42
We've helped hundreds of companies overcome complex
10:45
challenges, unlock new audiences, and optimize every
10:48
metric that matters. At Moeburst, we believe that
10:51
creative thinking, advanced technology, and data are the
10:54
core drivers of success at scale.
10:57
If you're serious about scaling your business with precision and
11:00
purpose, it's time to talk to Moeburst.
11:03
Visit moeburst.com and let's build something category
11:06
defining together. Hey everybody, you know what's
11:12
crazy? I've been sitting on a gold mine
11:14
this entire time and I didn't even know it.
11:16
My Gmail inbox, Literally thousands of warm contacts who
11:20
already know and trust me. But here's the problem every
11:23
founder faces. How do you turn those
11:25
relationships into revenue without feeling like a sleazy
11:28
salesperson? That's exactly why I've been
11:30
using Warm Star dot AI and honestly it's been a game
11:34
changer for my business. This AI platform connects your
11:37
e-mail, analyzes all your existing contacts, and helps you
11:41
identify who in your network might actually be interested in
11:43
what you're doing. Then it writes personalized
11:46
outreach messages that don't sound robotic or pushy.
11:49
The best part? You review every single message
11:52
before it goes out. No spray and pray nonsense.
11:54
This is relationship based selling done right.
11:58
My listeners know I only recommend tools I actually use,
12:01
and Warm Start has literally helped me reconnect with people
12:04
I'd lost touch with and turn those conversations into real
12:07
business opportunities. If you're a founder struggling
12:10
with outreach, check out Warmstar dot AI and use code
12:13
AIFF to get $50 off your first month.
12:17
Trust me, your existing network is worth way more than you
12:20
think. Amazing.
12:21
So it sounds like you're kind of instrumental in the validation
12:24
phase where you know founders will come to you.
12:26
They have an idea, maybe they have drafted a little bit, but
12:29
really you're kind of connecting the dots as far as like, well,
12:32
let's ask customers what they want and if they want it.
12:36
You know, what are maybe some misconceptions that founders
12:40
have when they're making the assumption?
12:41
I mean, as founders, we get obsessed and really excited by
12:45
our ideas. You know, I think a dangerous
12:48
thing to do is stick your head in the sand and just build it
12:50
alone. Let you know the, the classic
12:52
like, I don't want anybody to steal it.
12:54
I don't, you know, you, you hold on to your ideas like they're
12:57
precious. How do you kind of navigate
13:00
around working with founders to say like, hey, let's get some
13:03
feedback from the actual customers it's serving?
13:07
Christopher, we we are brutally honest and and it works because
13:13
we say that idea is one thing about execution is the 99%
13:17
that's factual and that's that's not to say what what everyone
13:22
can experience from the market. So it's easy to be validated
13:25
second, that we what they are afraid of that they don't see
13:30
the framework how to validate their products and how, how they
13:36
won't get in the trap of spending a lot of money on
13:40
something that won't have an ROI.
13:41
So basically we give a solid framework that OK, we say that
13:45
OK, we will, we, we'll give you a timeline with easy
13:49
deliverables. I give you an example.
13:50
I say that, OK, in the next one or two months, we will have X
13:55
amount of interviews with with the the people who are coming
13:59
from the industry. Of course you we will have come
14:02
some kind of sense in if you have, but there were causes
14:06
where they don't, they didn't have sense also about their
14:09
target industry. That's also a tricky part.
14:11
But let's say you have a kind of a feeling about at least a
14:15
feeling if that's factual. If it's not, it's not factual
14:21
about your personas who you are targeting for.
14:24
And let's say that, okay, we can start with them.
14:28
So we can get interview participants, we can guide
14:31
through them your product, we can have the right questions and
14:34
we can evaluate the outcomes. And from this you will have an
14:37
audit and we can say that, OK, this is very right now.
14:41
And these, these are the things that are the top priorities and
14:44
needs to be developed. This is what we call a user
14:47
experience audit. And there are, if you want a
14:50
tiny one there, this is a consulting that's a shorter one
14:54
and an audit is a bigger one. I give you a good example we
14:57
hand recently a few months ago we've been working with Subscan.
15:03
I think the Subscan is very known in the space.
15:06
It's it's the based polka dots, polka dot backed scanner system.
15:15
And basically we get a chance to make the UX conzaliting project
15:19
for them. And it was very interesting
15:21
during this interview is that they have a huge, robust and
15:25
very professional technical system, but it's very hard to
15:28
use and they are aware of it. And our role was to find out
15:34
that what are the biggest pain points of their users.
15:39
So when they are redesigning, they can focus on these elements
15:43
and all of the elements they can take away for bit which are less
15:48
important. So in that case, basically we
15:52
help them to navigate through the system to to see how they
15:56
can, as I said, have the the most rely on the shortest time.
16:01
And on the other hand, I think every in, in this industry and
16:08
in this phase of startups, a lot of things are based on
16:12
chemistry. So if, if there's a human level
16:15
connection, it, it, it helps or, or I would say, but let's say
16:21
I'm not saying it's mandatory, but it, it helps a lot that the,
16:24
if the parties can trust each other.
16:26
And we also put time and effort to build up trust between the
16:30
funders and us. So we don't mind if they're
16:32
there. We need to speak one plus hour
16:35
or two plus hours on that. We are also doing roasting
16:40
sessions. So we've been invited to roast
16:42
projects as mentors. Hey, it's, it's, it's, it's a
16:48
very, very good thing to do. By the way, we are learning a
16:50
lot also from the feedbacks from these roastings.
16:54
For example, one of the roastings, we, they give us 15
16:58
projects or participating, which is a lot.
17:01
And we had to evaluate everyone life.
17:05
Of course, we had the the materials before, so we had the
17:09
chance to get through it by them.
17:10
But they could listen to each other and they can learn from
17:13
each other. And we could highlight the pain
17:15
points and, and, and, and the weaknesses of their platforms.
17:21
And I think it was very, very valuable.
17:24
You know, amazing what you know, user experience is crucial, you
17:28
know, because everyone's in the conversion game.
17:30
What are what are some common mistakes that you see founders
17:34
making with user experience? They are not asking the users.
17:41
This is the biggest mistake. Yeah.
17:43
So most of the founders have a thesis about what is the
17:49
problem, but 99% of the time the problem is not what the founder
17:54
think is the problem. And and in a lot of cases not
17:59
even close. So you, you, you think you.
18:04
So most of most of the people have a very good sense of
18:07
feeling. The founders have a very good
18:08
sense of feeling about the industry, about the timing,
18:12
about what the product in, in the broad terms should look,
18:16
look like. And that's good.
18:18
That's why they are funders. But when you want someone to
18:22
click on the buy button, which is basically your end goal, you
18:27
have to understand the right motivation.
18:29
What is the exit problem that you will solve?
18:34
We were users for and it's very easy to get this information out
18:39
from the user. You just have to ask, of course,
18:41
you have to be brave. It's easier if you have the
18:44
framework and easier if you have the partner who had the
18:46
experience for that and the curiosity and stuff.
18:49
Because a lot of people, and I can absolutely understand this,
18:52
that they are afraid, they, they are shy, they don't want to do
18:56
that or they don't have the capacity or they don't know how
18:59
to do that. So that's absolutely
19:00
understandable. So I think that funders is, is I
19:05
always understand funders more. Absolutely.
19:09
So I'm not blaming anyone in the industry.
19:11
I'm saying that that's right, because funders should do that.
19:14
Funders should hassle dream vision.
19:18
That's good. That's why they are funders.
19:20
But on the other hand, it's it's a low level, so to say
19:26
professional work that we love to do and we we love to help.
19:30
But if this is the other side of looking mirror and and the most
19:34
of the people want to do the same thing on the one hand, and
19:39
it's very, very rare that that they can do it even in the in
19:44
the team because they are also blindsided.
19:48
Yeah, you know, it, it seems like there's pluses and minuses
19:51
of kind of talking directly to your customers.
19:53
Of course, founders got to do it now on on the the downside, you
19:59
know, people, if they're talking to the founder, they might kind
20:01
of nerf their response a little bit and be a little bit more
20:04
tender and nice because they're like, oh.
20:06
They they don't want to hurt your feelings now on the founder
20:09
side, like they're going to know all the bugs, they're going to
20:11
know all the objections. They're going to be maybe
20:14
they're embarrassed. It's not as far along as I want
20:17
or I know that I keep hearing the same thing.
20:21
It's it's emotionally taxing to to look at the mirror, you know,
20:27
but it's also crucially important.
20:29
So it seems like a good reason to use the kind of a third party
20:35
service to employ you guys to go out there and do this feedback
20:39
is because you can really get the truth from people of like
20:43
really what they like, really what they don't like.
20:46
And you can kind of take the gloves off and present it to,
20:48
you know, the CEO founders that the, the kind of start up team
20:52
and say like, hey, man, here's here's the honest truth of what
20:56
people are, are, are thinking, you know, so maybe it saves the
21:01
founder a little bit of embarrassment, but also like
21:03
then they have to, they do have to confront the issues and maybe
21:06
they get all those issues rooted out because ultimately, man,
21:11
the, the ones that haunt you is the one you don't find out
21:14
about, right? It's like if something's on the
21:16
table, you can work with it. If it can be measured, it can be
21:19
managed. So it's a a matter of the
21:22
measurements where you can. Absolutely, you are more than
21:26
100% right. And also I was I am a multiple
21:32
funder as well by myself. So I was I did a passion in my
21:36
career path. But it's important I think to
21:39
mention on this point that I was on all of the side of this
21:43
looking mirror. I was an investor, a product
21:45
developer and also a funder in multiple times.
21:49
So I know what it feels like when they are criticizing your
21:52
product, it's really hurts. Like I know this feeling that I
21:55
think that OK, this is my child. He she is super beautiful and
22:00
someone come comes to you and say your child is ugly, man,
22:04
what are you talking about? And you will feel hurt.
22:07
So that's that's absolutely normal.
22:09
So you are super right. And having a third party
22:12
independent party who is who can be objective and doesn't care
22:19
about the feeling so to say yes, it helps a lot and and makes
22:25
things tractionable and measurable.
22:27
Yes. Yeah.
22:28
So you get, you gather the validation, you gather the
22:31
feedback. How is that then presented to
22:33
kind of take actionable steps? What would the the the team then
22:36
do next? In these audits, we cover
22:41
basically two parts. In the first, the whole, well,
22:46
we, we create a text that is about what we have gathered out
22:51
or for as an information. So basically you'll get as a as
22:55
a thesis, you can you can read it.
22:57
Then you have actual lists. So we attach actual lists to
22:59
every parts of of our thesises we have found out.
23:03
So basically, if somebody, let's say you are a stakeholder and
23:07
then there's a proper developer in your company, let's say the
23:10
OR or someone who is responsible for or CTO, let's say there's
23:16
the CTO and the CEO. So the CTO we review the
23:19
document because he wants to under he, she wants to
23:22
understand that what is the core concept?
23:28
What is the core B is of our saying, what are the factuals
23:32
behind and the next steps we are saying.
23:37
And then the CEO we only say as a good project manager that OK,
23:41
this is task ABCD and we are prioritizing it.
23:45
So basically we are giving out the Malays that these are the
23:47
hot things that needs to be fixed because these are the
23:50
major bottleneck step that is getting in your way to get more
23:54
money and these are the minor ones and and and less
23:57
prioritized ones. Incredible.
24:00
I love it. Now I know this is only a facet,
24:03
a certain facet of kind of the work you do.
24:06
And it sounds like, you know, if I was building a house, you
24:09
would be like the general contractor.
24:11
So you come in you you bring in the the architecture, you're
24:15
working on the architecture. And then once it's time to start
24:18
to build out the house, you bring in different elements,
24:21
different players and with different specializations.
24:24
So when you're thinking about like kind of revamping a tool or
24:28
creating something from scratch, you know, what's kind of the
24:32
architecture that you're bringing to that and what
24:34
different elements of the different team members are, are
24:37
important contributors. First of all, we tried to to see
24:45
honestly, what do they have already in house and it's and
24:51
every project is different. So basically we've been working,
24:55
let's say all on the spectrum on, on, on one way on at one
24:59
point on the spectrum they have nothing, just brainstorming
25:04
materials and and thoughts that they have discussed orally.
25:08
And on the other hand, they have everything for the documented.
25:12
So basically between these two, we can we gather all the
25:15
information they have. So we just say that everything
25:18
that you have related to the product, related to your market,
25:21
even the business and market and everything just send it to us
25:25
because we need to understand where are you at right now?
25:28
So we have to see a stable status quo first and 2nd, we
25:32
need to understand that what are the things that you have already
25:36
solved? And we don't want to solve the
25:38
same thing again. That's the first, the second we
25:41
can start based on that. So let's say if they don't have
25:45
anything, that's not a problem. We have rainbows to go through.
25:50
Basically it's we, we can say that we are doing design
25:54
thinking, but that's strictly design thinking.
25:56
We try to do design thinking with them.
25:59
But you know, every every kind of especially working with
26:05
start-ups, every kind of these frameworks are working very good
26:09
on paper, But when it comes to practice, you always have to
26:14
shift depending on the results on the actual work with the
26:18
founder. So, so to say, if I want to say
26:21
something iterative design thinking framework is the the
26:25
solid base, what we are working on, then we iterate as we see,
26:30
for example, we started a process and we have an
26:36
understanding that the founder have a deep understanding who
26:43
their clients are. And on the third meeting, it
26:45
turns out that they don't, they are too less about their
26:48
competitors. And this comes out because from
26:52
the perspective that they say, yes, we understand their
26:54
clients. You say, OK, that you should
26:57
understand your competitors then.
26:59
And it turns out that they don't understand their competitors and
27:01
they just slightly understand their clients.
27:03
And they and, and they said that they are our clients.
27:07
And, and until we unfold these stages, we cannot say
27:11
aggressively that. OK, you guys, what you are
27:14
saying is dumb because it's not dumb.
27:16
It's it's a status quo. So basically we are going step
27:20
by step. So there's no magic field in the
27:24
sense I would, I would say that in, in a, in a best case
27:30
scenario, what we have learned, if there is a written
27:34
specification, like very narrow specification in a few pages,
27:37
that helps if there is a business plan and the of course
27:41
it because if they are backed by VC for example, or something or
27:44
or for some reason they have made a business plan, that also
27:46
helps. But it's not everything.
27:50
But we, we can start with that. So what we see what in their
27:53
heads, but we are also clients, very interesting, who had
27:57
fundraised a lot, like millions, spent a lot at the core team and
28:04
hired us to do UX research. And after working the month or
28:12
month and the fourth, it turned out that they have not just a
28:18
client that they are targeting for, but not even a tangible
28:22
product. But they came to us and they
28:25
said that, OK, we have ABCD products and we have ABCD
28:28
clients. And we said, OK, fine, let's
28:29
work on this. And what, what, what, what are
28:31
you hiring us for? To make the products better for
28:34
the the client that we know, OK, this is our work.
28:37
And we were doing nothing, just asking questions, OK, how this
28:41
product works, for example, very, very simple question,
28:44
please throw me your product. Oh, this product is I'm going to
28:47
be open. OK, not a problem.
28:49
What will your product do? It might do that thing or that
28:52
thing or that thing. OK, guys, but then you don't
28:55
have a product concept. You have ideas where are you
28:59
going to develop a product, which is not a problem.
29:02
But sometimes people needs to be guided a little bit of during
29:09
this test to understand how they will.
29:13
And I think, I think you're right with the with the
29:17
architecture example of yours that they need to guide, be
29:20
guided through the path and and that's okay.
29:24
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
29:27
You know, and I love talking to product developers like you
29:31
because you get this unique window not only to the
29:34
psychology of founders, but also to the kind of products that
29:37
people are developing. And so you're going to have like
29:41
a, a good keen understanding of the marketplace, but also
29:45
competitors and like what kind of where the puck is going, so
29:49
to speak. So I'd, I'd love to kind of
29:50
shift to the future and look at kind of where software
29:55
development is going. You know, last year we saw so
29:59
much talk about the future and what's possible.
30:03
I think, you know, software engineers probably 5X10X their
30:09
output capability. So it became to not so much what
30:13
can we do, what can we do, but what should we do?
30:17
I feel like another kind of light bulb moment over the last
30:20
year is seeing some of these like gigantic, like enterprise
30:25
players start to be threatened. Because it looks like with the
30:29
right structure data, you can start to chisel off some of the
30:33
the tools that have been offered for by some of these giant
30:37
enterprise solutions for a long time, but create kind of new
30:40
opportunities and, and really kind of nailed it.
30:44
So you know, that being said, where do you see this this year
30:49
product development is going? I let's say I would use the word
30:57
hope that I what I hope for because it's really hard to see
31:01
it on this Lightspeed market. But I, what I hope for and what
31:05
we are also catching up always with that, how can we automate
31:13
the processes with AI when it comes to the actual software
31:17
development part? So that's where we need to
31:20
divide the two parts. I think the product development
31:23
part, which is a human to human interaction will be always
31:28
there. So it's really hard.
31:30
I, I don't think in the near future or even in the OR, or in
31:34
the very long future. So it, it means AI is needs,
31:37
needs. If, if I I am sceptic about that
31:41
a is, can reach that point that they have this kind of
31:44
understanding about because this, this also needs together
31:48
feelings and, and, and a lot of other perspective, just the data
31:53
intuition and stuff. So it's, it's, I think it's,
31:56
it's a broader topic. So let's say to figure out the
31:59
right product concept is something that we always need
32:02
human, but the actual software development, so to say coding
32:06
part is being done automatically in in a very, very short period
32:13
of time. And we are also working on it.
32:15
So right now where we are at is, is a kind of a middle stage
32:22
because there are a lot of players out that flow Sigma
32:26
square space, etcetera. All, all of them are lovable,
32:30
which is a new startup, for example, who are working on it,
32:34
how to do this or these pages without coding.
32:39
But still there's a big difference about between landing
32:42
pages and full products. But the the core idea is that
32:46
you can prompt AI to do something.
32:48
What I believe in that when you design something in, for
32:53
example, you design it in Sigma, if you want to export it into a
32:57
code and get it live without too much or or very, very or or
33:04
without any kind of engineering work, let's say very less, less
33:08
engineering work. That that what that was needed a
33:12
few years ago or even 2 years ago is very achievable this
33:16
year. So we are also working on this
33:19
not hiring like we have very high end engineers, but we are
33:24
we don't want to have too much coders under them.
33:28
We would rather use AI instead of the coders because I think
33:32
that the bird word, as as I've said in the last 10 years,
33:36
shifted a lot from having a lot of people who can code but
33:44
cannot engineer. And this is, this is the very,
33:48
there's, there's a big difference between these two
33:51
kind of people because the people who can engineer, they
33:53
are the architectures, as you said, and the, the coders are
33:58
the ones who are putting the bricks in the house and the
34:01
bricks can be put automatically. So I think that this is the way
34:06
where we are going. And in a lot of cases, we can
34:10
like we tried and these verbs that if you prompt the AI, well,
34:14
you can build simply websites very easily with them.
34:18
And also on the other hand, which is very important to
34:21
mention that that we, we, we shouldn't forget that we
34:29
shouldn't start reinventing the wheel because there are a lot of
34:35
already existing other technical solutions market apart from AI,
34:40
which can be very, which can be connected with AI very well.
34:45
That helps a lot when it comes to product development.
34:47
I'm talking about there are tons of open source engines out of
34:51
the market and and and when it comes how we work when it comes
34:55
to software development, I always have a big consortium
34:59
with my engineers to find out the best solution for the
35:05
client, meaning that we don't want.
35:08
I am I'm I'm strictly against writing anything from scratch
35:12
because I think in two thousand 2025 it's amateur.
35:16
So I always say that guys get the engine engine that is the
35:20
closest to it. They start all start the
35:23
automation processes, which is very important.
35:25
But basically I will add the thought about automation
35:28
processes as well, because I think that's also important.
35:31
But get the engine and start working around it that customize
35:35
it instead of coding it. And also the automation part
35:39
comes in that there are two and also regarding, regarding to a
35:43
question, there are two kind of things that this automation
35:48
thing needs to be understanded. I, I'm, I think this year a lot
35:53
of people will understand what is the, the, the, there are two
35:56
kind of AIS on the commercial market we are talking about.
35:59
The first is the automation AIS that is basically trigger based
36:05
API integration which has been on the market for 10-15 years.
36:11
So, so it's not nothing new, but it's start to it's it's getting
36:15
more commercialized. What what is new is the natural
36:19
language processing. And if you connect these three
36:21
dots, basically the engine, the NLP and the automation, then you
36:26
are there. And I'm waiting for these things
36:29
to be commercialized as soon as possible.
36:33
And we are working also in house to develop the right solutions.
36:38
But it's, you know, the commercial when I thought about
36:41
commercializations, yeah, commercialization, it's not
36:45
about selling it as a solution, but using it as using as a
36:49
solution in house because it can help lowering their costs,
36:54
making our processes faster. But also on the other hand, it
36:59
could be considered in let's say if, if, if I would, if I
37:06
wouldn't need to take a bet, I think in a two to four years of
37:10
time tops rather 2 than four to commercialize it and start
37:15
working it on an enterprise level.
37:17
And that's where the big guys will come in, as you said.
37:20
Yeah, yeah. It's really interesting that you
37:23
mentioned not building from scratch and I think that's a
37:27
really important parameter that founders should should think
37:30
about, which is, you know, how can we piece this together,
37:33
especially in the beginning to get market validation before
37:38
building from scratch because that is just so costly and it's
37:42
so takes so much time, even more importantly.
37:46
So for example, like spoke to Kai recently and he built, he
37:50
built a software that's doing 2,000,000 ARR in, in my 2 years
37:56
all off go high level. So like like a no code platform
38:01
and there's a bunch of them now or my buddies over at was that
38:04
have basically augmented AI coding specifically for iOS and
38:09
for Android markets. So what you can find now is
38:12
like, OK, where do we want the application to live?
38:15
Is it in Apple App store? Is it, you know, in a browser?
38:18
Well, there's going to be certain things that you already
38:20
know you're going to want. You're going to want to be able
38:22
to log in with the e-mail. You're going to want to have
38:24
dashboards and reports. Like all these things are kind
38:27
of canned at this point. And by by having them already
38:31
built in or pre built that it's just going to save you massive
38:34
amounts of time and energy going in.
38:36
Plus, you know, if something is actually so novel that it would
38:40
require you to build it from scratch, what makes you think
38:43
you're the guy who should bring that out?
38:45
Like a lot of what we're doing now is kind of like reminds me
38:48
of The Sharper Image catalog, you know, where it's like you
38:52
got you, you, let's say you, you got your stereo, but hey, we got
38:55
to start stereo with a clock radio on top of it.
38:58
Or, you know, you want a robe. Of course you got a robe, but
39:00
this one's monogrammed, you know, like you're looking for
39:03
things that work and tweaking it just so that people that makes
39:07
the product more sticky and then you can take advantage of that
39:09
market share from somebody else, you know, So I, I think that's
39:13
really important and actually maybe an unspoken parameter that
39:16
I've put on myself because I have gone the custom route and
39:20
then it's a disaster trying to get anything changed.
39:22
You know, whereas if you're using no code, low code, or any
39:26
of the AI augmented tools, then you have a lot more options
39:29
available for you. Yes, that's right.
39:35
And I would say that starting building immediately might be
39:42
not the best way to do a product.
39:45
So I would rather that there's a good, good saying on the market.
39:48
I think you heard it, but I use it a lot.
39:50
Fake it until you make it. And basically that's that's what
39:55
I always advise to our clients that do the MVP should be really
40:01
an MVP. But before an MVP, if you are
40:05
doing it right and you want to save the most of your headaches
40:08
and most of your time and money, you should start doing a good
40:13
product also that solves the real problem and you can test
40:16
it. On a landing page or with just
40:19
one function or just asking it if you if you want to do it very
40:23
low end. And when you see that, OK, what
40:26
is the real that what is what, what what are the.
40:28
If you see all the puzzle pieces that needs to be gettered to, to
40:32
make a real product, then you will start finding the right
40:35
solution that is already on the market as an engine.
40:38
Or you will find the the pieces and you will start binding them
40:42
together and you will do a system integration in this phase
40:45
of the product development instead of what most of the
40:48
people are doing, they say, OK, I got a great idea.
40:51
I do, I, I just roll out a no code NDP to the market.
40:57
I started marketing and we will see what will happen.
41:00
And the guys that you brought as an example are at the tip of the
41:04
iceberg and they might be lucky, they might have the would time
41:08
market timing lot of things like I always used to say when I had
41:13
my biggest start up funded and when I when I exited from a few
41:17
years ago, the same start up we did, we cannot do now why?
41:21
Because the timing was super right.
41:23
It was in the middle of the NFT metabers boom and we need that
41:27
and NFTB is metabers. So the timing was super right.
41:30
If he would make it one year before or two years after,
41:34
nobody would give anything like and and it was so easy to sell
41:39
was the product. Yeah, it was good.
41:41
Was it the best? No, it wasn't the best, but it
41:43
was good enough on the market with which was super hard.
41:46
So don't forget that this is the time.
41:48
But if you this is this is the lucky strategy.
41:52
But if you want to say so to say the cockroach strategy, which we
41:56
we most of the people needs to be cockroaches and that's fine,
42:01
then you have to go through this way that first you need to
42:06
understand what is is there a real problem that I'm solving?
42:09
Yes. OK.
42:10
But then I can ask you, OK, guys, is it a real problem?
42:14
Yes. No, you go through the test and
42:16
then you see oh, OK. And how would you form to go
42:19
with your example? OK, how would you like to login?
42:23
I think I would use Google and Facebook.
42:25
OK, that's fine. Then you make a note that you
42:27
will need these two. But you thought before that, OK,
42:30
you and the I need also Telegram login.
42:33
And nobody said that they need a Telegram.
42:36
And you integrated Telegram because you started because you
42:38
thought that people they need Telegram and nobody needed
42:41
Telegram. So we wasted time and and the
42:44
people are saying that why is it Telegram?
42:45
Nobody's using it. Totally.
42:48
Yeah. I talked to one guy, he he went
42:50
through his whole product design with me and I was like, dude,
42:53
that's just calendly, man. It's free.
42:55
It already exists. It's perfect.
42:57
Don't. Yeah, just go use that.
43:01
It's a great idea. Yes, yes.
43:04
And it happens and still if you can, if you can say, and this is
43:10
the hardest question when you say, yeah, it's hardly.
43:13
And what is your USB? And my USB is that I am nice so.
43:23
Yeah, exactly. All right, Mike, that's been
43:25
awesome. We're about to go into the
43:27
quantum round. Are you ready for the quantum
43:29
round? Yeah, sure.
43:31
OK, great. So you, you're obviously have a,
43:35
you're very bullish about product development and and
43:40
business kind of business plans around product.
43:46
How about a bear case? Which when do you tell founders
43:49
they should not build products? First of all is I see that they
44:01
have two ambitious, they have two ambitious and they are not
44:05
realistic. That's very typical.
44:07
For example, I had clients who came to me and they said, OK,
44:12
that's where we are at right now and we would like to close X
44:15
amount of millions in funding in epsilon amount of months, which
44:19
was which was unachievable and and they were repeating the same
44:25
thing. Even we we said that guys, this
44:28
one for this one, but this will work.
44:30
So we, we are not the we are not the this one guys.
44:33
We are, this won't work, but this will work the guys.
44:36
And if they stop listening to us and I say it's OK guys, if you
44:41
know everything, then I think that spending money or someone
44:45
who you are hiring to help, not echoing you is not the best.
44:50
Because your problem is not that you want someone to help you,
44:53
but someone to echo you so that we, we cannot be paid for that.
44:58
So that's the first, the second when they want to build a very
45:04
robust product from scratch and they are afraid to go to the
45:08
market. So say they say that, OK, we've
45:11
got the two years for the development timeline two years.
45:16
It's it's like it's a lifetime in tech.
45:20
So there there's no such thing in two years, especially,
45:24
especially especially now. So that's that's something that
45:26
I said, OK, guys, this is unrealistic.
45:28
You will die on the market. So just just don't start it
45:32
sardines. When when I say that it's it's
45:35
not going to work then when they don't want to put spin in skin
45:38
in their game and that's one when am I also my investor
45:44
mindset comes in the picture when I was investing into
45:46
products and they were saying that OK, yeah, I was asking, OK,
45:50
what are you bringing to the table?
45:51
I'm bringing the idea OK, that size and what else?
45:54
My hardware OK, that's super nice, but what else?
45:58
This is the this is below the bare minimum and most and, and a
46:02
lot of the funders, I'm not saying most, but a lot of the
46:05
funders have the misconception that if they have a idea which
46:10
is not yet validated, they see that it's great and they are
46:13
putting harder behind then it feels we succeed won't won't
46:17
make it. And we are also trying to filter
46:20
out the people who are not serious because it's just a
46:23
waste of time for us as well. And also it feel if, if you go
46:29
further and we are not honest in the very beginning, we really
46:33
bet this best taste in mouth that why we were discussing with
46:38
them. It's better to stop on the first
46:40
date or on the second date and say, OK, we don't have any
46:43
chemistry. So there's, there's the search
46:46
kind of of of guy and, and the 4th if they are and that's,
46:54
that's, that's also very typical in the crypto space, especially
47:01
and also in the AI space as well, let's say in these two
47:05
edge investors. But but in, in all of the tech,
47:08
in all of the tech, but in the web stream and the AI space is
47:11
very typical if they're not aware of the jurisdictions,
47:15
especially right now, because every part to the world is very
47:19
divided. So I always ask, OK, what is
47:22
your target market? Because if you want to develop
47:25
something in the States or let's say in North America or if you
47:29
want Europe or if you want in Asia or Australia, these jury
47:33
decisions, we'll, we'll make a lot of handcuffs on you and you
47:39
have to figure out the product around that.
47:41
And, and even sometimes big players, and I'm surprised how
47:45
big players don't and don't care about that, that they should
47:49
understand what the jury decisions are.
47:51
And a lot of people standing tons of millions of dollars fail
47:56
on the market. We after this because they say,
47:59
oh, this is not going to work on this market.
48:01
But we have worked on this market and we found that it
48:04
easily work on this market. I had just today I had two
48:07
different conversations in this topic about big players who are
48:11
spending millions of, for example, marketing and they
48:14
would like to enter a specific country.
48:17
And they are, they say that we are big enough players for this
48:21
country to just enter. And they are not, they are not.
48:27
They don't know the local players.
48:28
They don't know the local authorities.
48:31
And they will fail. And then this is also very,
48:34
very, very important. Yeah.
48:37
Amazing. Let's go to the other side.
48:40
If you were to develop a product solely for the chance or the
48:46
opportunity to get to $1,000,000 run rate as soon as possible,
48:50
what product or category of product would you design for the
48:54
market? I think something related to
49:02
health or medical problems, that's, that's a really good
49:05
topic. So now I, I wouldn't say
49:07
Wellness, but mental well-being or around that end.
49:11
And on the topic healthcare, these are two topics that are
49:15
absolutely rising. First, second, there are a lot
49:20
of web St. problems that are unsolved and just seems to be
49:24
solved. So and I'm talking about very
49:27
low hanging foods like how to do an on Rev, on, off RAM solution
49:33
with KYC in the one platform where there are solutions for on
49:39
Rev and off RAM. But when you want to integrate
49:41
it, it's very hard with it was a journey.
49:43
So we, we, we made also concept for that to how can you do this
49:49
together with, with login and and creating a simple as much as
49:55
we can do this, that you do it in the web 2 words or something
49:59
around authorization and and data security and also data
50:04
recoverability in the three. That's something that I would
50:07
tap into also. And and then the third one is
50:12
education, which is which I think it's, it's a booming topic
50:16
in, in a lot of, in, in a lot of, in a lot of parts of this in
50:23
industry because the, the educational, I think the
50:32
educational platforms that are, that are on the market right now
50:36
are a bit behind themselves. They are trying to innovate and
50:40
they really respect that and I can see that what the guys are
50:43
doing with Duolingo pair for for example, I think that they have
50:47
a very fun application, but speaking from myself, I'm trying
50:52
to learn Spanish, but I couldn't do it with Duolingo.
50:54
And I don't know if anybody could do it with Duolingo to
50:57
learn a language subscribe because it's a fun game and I
51:01
really love their commercials. It's it's super cool.
51:03
So she's she's the marketing manager of Duolingo, but product
51:09
wise, I couldn't say that I could learn a language from it.
51:13
And and the most of the video driven.
51:16
Yes, I'm listening. Yes, it's it's like it's it's
51:20
like so Gen. X and and and Jen millennial,
51:24
But but the younger generations who have, you know, who are born
51:31
and used TikTok and Instagram Rios, we learned somehow
51:34
differently. So I think they have don't have
51:37
the attention spent to to spend that amount of time.
51:40
So I think these topics, so education, healthcare and and
51:45
then and mental well-being and that's three are are mental hot
51:51
topics. I wouldn't I wouldn't say AI
51:54
because I think I think AI and I might be on on unpopular with my
52:00
opinion, but I think the the AI thing from in my in my personal
52:08
opinion. So I'm I'm under lighting that
52:10
this is my personal opinion. I'm I'm don't want to feel
52:14
anybody to be offended, but it's it's really hard to innovate on
52:19
the level, which is not the big players again.
52:22
So of course, I think consultancy is is very much
52:26
necessary. So basically having people to
52:30
use AI solutions, it's a top, top thing.
52:33
So I was also thinking about knowing an agency around that
52:37
like or just specializing something just to that topic
52:42
because I think there's big market need to advise how to use
52:48
AI solutions on a daily basis, even from small to big
52:51
companies. But creating AI products, it's a
52:56
decent volume and I think I think just the big players have
53:01
enough money for that. Of course at the top of the
53:04
iceberg there are some examples. But if you if you see the
53:08
charts, the success rate of these AI startups that born and
53:13
we are talking about two or three, two or three years born
53:18
industries, very, very baby born industry are already falling.
53:24
So what can we expect on a five year term or a 10 year term?
53:28
Yeah. Yeah.
53:30
I mean, it's, it's a fairpoint. I mean, if you got $100 billion
53:35
mode around your business, there's only a couple of them,
53:38
you know. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
53:40
Amazing Mike, this has been fantastic.
53:43
Now, I would be remiss if I ended the, the the interview
53:47
without talking about your amazing commitment to the
53:49
environment. And we talked about like, I know
53:53
an organization that you support called amazonwatch.org, but
53:57
you've also built products around the space.
54:00
So maybe you could talk a little bit about maybe what are the
54:02
challenges of NGOs, nonprofits and charitable organizations
54:08
that you'd like to see solved this year?
54:14
I think you are familiar with the decentralized in the world
54:17
Decentralized autonomous organization called DAO, which
54:21
is I think a very good concept. It's, it's basically in, in my
54:25
way of thinking, it's putting the thinking of democracy into
54:31
the tech word and formalizing it in a legal way.
54:34
And I think those can be the the baseline to to find the right to
54:41
charity purposes locally. Because I think what where big
54:46
NGOs are struggling that if you, that it's very hard to find the
54:52
people who need the money the most.
54:54
Of course, if you say that, OK, we are giving out people who,
55:00
who are who, who are starving or, or for environment causes
55:04
or, or something like that, that, that sounds very good on a
55:07
high level. But if you, if you see locally,
55:12
you could make a bigger impact if you could listen to the
55:15
people who are living there who could vote for these problems,
55:19
who could decide around what the biggest problems are.
55:23
And you can, you can create a platform based based on the
55:28
House or where these out of own working communities can
55:32
contribute to each purposes. So maybe sometimes it's it's
55:37
it's a bigger impact to fix a broken, let's say water bridge
55:42
than to start saving a whole continent.
55:46
And I think EC start collecting these smaller issues.
55:51
It it will, it will start also bold because if you start saving
56:00
small communities lives, then they can think more innovatively
56:04
and these innovation mindset or will influence, you know, will
56:10
be influential for other communities as well.
56:12
And, and it can be grow rapidly and everybody will think and
56:17
then in the local committee that they have the responsibility to
56:22
do it and they will contribute it instead of saying, Oh yeah,
56:26
yeah, someone will come and solve it because, because you
56:29
are committing yourself to the cause.
56:32
And we started working out the plus form a few years ago.
56:37
We need to, we need to stop it because we need to, to shift our
56:41
focus. But it was, it was a great
56:43
project and I, I really hope that we can make it live
56:49
sometime. It was called donation and it
56:52
was around this concept that people can actually vote that in
56:56
their local community. What are the biggest problems?
57:00
And, and there's a big fundraising pool.
57:03
So the fundraising would be the same that is coming in the big
57:05
pool. But how you allocate it, it's
57:08
based on this course. There's a scoring system and who
57:12
needs the, who needs the money the most, we'll get it and and
57:17
it will be on the controlled way because the Dow is also
57:19
reflecting to itself. So I think I know.
57:24
So for so for for example, what Polka dot is trying to do in the
57:29
Dow system with the full transparency with the
57:32
referendums, etcetera. It's something like that or at
57:37
the grassroots. Not so the grassroots apocalypse
57:40
this that if you are full transparent and everybody can
57:44
vote for it, then we will spend the money for the right causes.
57:47
Similar direction and civil governance when I'm thinking it
57:52
love. That man that's a fantastic idea
57:56
and a great name down nation. I, I do hope you pick it up.
57:59
You know, I, I love talking about charitable organizations,
58:02
largely because so much of the online world is so negative.
58:06
And every time I talk to folks like you, I, I realize like how
58:10
much cool stuff is going on and how much good people are putting
58:14
into the world, which is I think ultimately encouraging.
58:17
It is definitely for me, it's like, you know, like, and I
58:20
haven't heard of, of Dows in some time.
58:22
Like it, they were really hot for a while.
58:24
It seems like after open AI kind of released ChatGPT, everybody
58:28
jumped on that bandwagon. But I think there's so much
58:31
opportunity with Dows for sure. Maybe they can do some kind of
58:35
like Dow slash polymarket so all these like crazy gamblers could
58:39
like somehow be donating the money to charitable
58:42
organizations or something. Like that?
58:44
Yeah, yeah. You know, it'd probably work.
58:49
Mike, this has been absolutely fantastic.
58:51
Where? What is the website where people
58:54
can learn more about your work? It's saturniadesign.com and also
59:00
if they want to check a few publications of ours, they can
59:04
fund it and medium.com at Saturnia design because we are
59:11
all bi weekly posting about our opinions and and also the events
59:19
and we are attending get and organizing.
59:21
So we are, we are trying to publish as much as as as we can,
59:25
but most of the things are on the website including our
59:28
portfolio until 2 and 2024. We will refresh this one with
59:32
the last year's portfolio as well.
59:37
Amazing. We'll link both again.
59:38
That's Saturnia. Saturnia part of ME design.
59:41
Saturnia, yeah. Saturnia And how about you,
59:45
Mike? Personally, what's the best
59:46
place for people to connect with you online?
59:49
Telegram basically. So I'm, I'm happy to connect
59:55
along with anyone you can share my telegram video group and,
1:00:01
and, and if, if they want to just casually catch up with me
1:00:04
or on what's even on what's up most of Telegram, what's up,
1:00:08
they, they just can write me and said, Hey, I'm coming from Ryan.
1:00:12
So I, I, I really know that they're good fellas.
1:00:16
Yeah, I hope so. Don't let me down, people.
1:00:20
Mike, thank you so much for the conversation.
1:00:22
I really appreciate. It thank you for having me here.
1:00:25
Hey founders, let me ask you this, are you building with AI
1:00:29
or getting left behind by it? If you're serious about scaling
1:00:33
smarter, faster and bolder, you need to check out AI for
1:00:37
founders.co. It's your go to resource for
1:00:41
cutting through the noise and actually using AI to grow your
1:00:44
startup. Each week, AI for Founders drops
1:00:48
a sharp, no fluff newsletter, dives deep with expert guests on
1:00:52
the podcast, and hosts monthly workshops where you can get your
1:00:56
hands dirty with the real tools and strategies.
1:00:59
Whether you're precede or Series B and beyond, launching
1:01:03
something new or just staying sharp, AI for Founders gives you
1:01:07
the edge you need to win in 2025 and beyond.
1:01:11
Hit AI for founders.co to subscribe to the newsletter,
1:01:15
tune into the podcast, and grab your spot in the next workshop,
1:01:19
and it's all free. Build smarter, move faster,
1:01:22
think bolder with AI for Founders.
1:01:25
Now back to the show.