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The Alpine Manor Murders · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Old age is a gift that is not granted to many.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: We take for granted the years as they pass by,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: and it's easy to discount the wisdom that comes with
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: the experience of life. In today's episode, the experience and
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: wisdom that came with old age wasn't the only thing
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: that was discredited, but in fact, their value of their
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: very life seemed to be in question. This is the
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: case of the Alpine Manner Murders. A place where seniors
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: could go for assisted living and end of life care
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: instead turned into a murderous tale.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Warning the following podcast and material intended for mature I listen,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: you gave me quite the face with that intro.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I also didn't get the memo to open my drink.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I just went with it for the intro.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Hey, I'm opening my now because I was like, oh,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: this sounds like a really nice podcast. I was like,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: because I actually say that often, that like, aging is
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: a gift basically, right, Oh yeah, definitely, It's not granted
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: to everyone. And so I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm really
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: digging this and then it went real, so reality struck, yeah, real,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: sel real quick, Well.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Wait till we actually get into the episode, because it's
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: it's dark, it sucks and yay not yea, not yeay whatsoever. Awesome,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: but we do have a couple of things we want
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: to touch on here before we get into the episode.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Particularly last week we said we are going to be
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: airing that as the first video episode. Ever, however, we
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: did have problem with one camera. I think we even
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: talked about it that off. Yeah, we lost half the
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: footage for Nicole's angle, so you would have been just
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: looking at me for half. Fine, Yeah, I don't know.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I think for the first episode we want to make
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: sure that every camera is working. So I think we
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: got it all sorted out. We have all the cameras
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: set up and it should be good to go this time.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: So fingers crossed YouTube link down below where you can
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: find the episode in video form.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah awesome.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: We also want to thank our patrons because they're signing up,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: they're supporting us getting behind the scenes and getting an
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: extra episode which airs the last day of the month,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: which is also tomorrow or today whenever you're listening to it,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: or maybe yesterday or who knows when.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Right, all depends January thirty.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: First, there we go. But we have these people to
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: thank for signing up for Patreon. So we have Chantel Barrio,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Tamara Newcombe, Nicole, Mary Gabriel Hill, and Monica Keys. Thank
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: you so much. You guys appreciate it awesome. Yeah, so
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: they get all that good stuff over on Patreon. If
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: you want to find the link links down below, you
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: can go ahead check it out, subscribe, or you can
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: just be here and show with us. That's cool too.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: I actually know on Nicole Marie you do, so I'm
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: curious if that's the one that.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I think, if it's the Nicole Marie yeah, or if
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: it's a Nicole Marie yeah, or another min Nicole Marie.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: A lot of people have similar earth the same names,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: right touche.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, I've never met another Ben Gibson, but
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there is others out there. There is a
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Ben Gibbons, Gibbons, a local Ben Gibbons town.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it always I see them comments sometimes and
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm like, oh, I don't know, it startles me.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not me. That's it. That's the knockoff version of me,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: or maybe I'm the knockoff version of them. I don't know,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: but either way.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: And then yeah, we should also mention that we're putting
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: this out a smidge late.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean it's it's not technically late.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: It's the same day.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: It's the same day, but it's not like midnight of
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: that day.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: We usually aim to upload the second the day starts,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: at least on Pacific standard time at midnight the episodes released,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: but we had some power outage issues and stuff like that,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: so we're a little bit delayed today.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, we had quite the storm last night. It
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: was a bit alarming.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you could say that again.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: And living in a tiny home like during a storm
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: is next level.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: You feel much more exposed. That's for sure.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: It has its benefits, but it's also kind of weird
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: too at the same time.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, I don't know, a camper and RV
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: sort of situation. You're just like very there in the storm.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: It's like, whoa, we have a tin roof and we
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: live in a little tiny loft where we sleep, so
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: we're just like the storm is right.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: There, and shit's hitting the roof and it's really shit.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: HiT's the roof. Yeah, definitely, but we are we good
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: to go into this? Ready for the episode?
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: I think? So?
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Okay? Yeah, well, let's dive into the alpine manner murders,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: shall we?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Let's do ward?
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Okay? So in Grand Rapids, Michigan, Ed Chambers and his wife,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Marguerite were an unbreakable team. Together. They had four children
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: and lived a very successful life with their careers. But
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: their life, however, did take an unexpected turn in nineteen
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: seventy two when Ed began to notice a subtle shift
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: in Marguerite's once vibrant personality. The woman who he had
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: known to have been highly intelligent and quick witted, was
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: now showing signs of forgetfulness and confusion. Concerned, the couple
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: sought medical advice, bracing themselves for the news, and they
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: had some that would really reshape their world. See the
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: diagnosis was devastating. Marguerite, at the age of forty two,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: was grappling with Alzheimer's disease. Oh wow, relatively young for sure,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: seemed super young. Definitely, it's a relentless form for those
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: who don't know of dementia that mercilessly erodes a person's
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: meta and cognitive abilities over time. So eventually you start
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: forgetting who you are, your friends and family are, and
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: you don't know where you are, and it's just constant
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: amnesia essentially.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if you do, but I don't
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: have any experience with like any loved ones with that,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: But it just seems like it would it would just
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: be awful, like just awful for them themselves. But also
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: say if it's like your mom or your dad or
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: whatever and they're slowly like forgetting who you are, Oh,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: it's heartbreaking.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know for me, Like I forget a lot
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: of shit. You tell me like, hey, we got plans
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: next weekend, I'm like, oh, gotcha, and then I forget
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: it like in five minutes. Other than that, definitely no
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: experience with Alzheimer's or any sort of dementia. Yeah, counter
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: lucky stars so far. Anyways, So, as the years unfolded,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Marguerite was left unable to perform the simplest of daily tasks.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Ed made the difficult decision to take an early retirement,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: and determined to be by Marguerite's side through the tumultuous
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: journey that lay ahead. He was there, However, by the
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: early nineteen eighties, the harsh reality set in and Marguerite
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: required around the clock care that extended beyond what Ed
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: could provide. Reluctantly acknowledging the limitations of his solo efforts,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Ed made the decision to enlist the assistance of professional
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: living caregivers. In the meantime, he searched for suitable facilities
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: around Grand Rapids. Facilities, however, were very a very rare commodity,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: leaving Marguerite's name among multitude of people who were on
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: the hopeful applicant waiting list. So in that meantime he
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: had caregivers coming to their home doing what they could,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: but he ultimately wanted to get her into a full
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: time facility, so they endeared a long two year wait,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: but a glimmer of hope finally emerged when a bed
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: opened up at Alpine Manor, just on the outskirts of
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Grand Rabbits. Now, this two hundred and eight bed nursing
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: home conveniently was only three three blocks from where Ed
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: and market lift.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Oh that seems perfect.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it became a lifeline essentially, right so that Ed
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: could actually even like he could walk to go see
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: her at his leisure Alpine Manor had four wings, each
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: of its own had its nursing stations. The facility, contrary
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: to Ed's preconceived notions of a cold, sterile box, was
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: something much different. It exuded a surprising warmth. The air
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: was tinged with cleanliness, and the staff donned an impeccable attire,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: and they graced the common areas, mingling within all the residents.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: As Ed ventured further, he discovered the vibrant community within
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: where the residents gathered, engaging in conversation with playful games.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: The nursing home, far from the stark institution that he
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: initially assumed, boasted carpeted floors, curtains adorning the windows, walls,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: had artwork, and it was just had this like nice
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: touch of humanity within this environment.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: It almost sounds kind of cozy, Like.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: I want to go there and like put my self
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: in there, almost like it's like, damn, that sounds like
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: a life, you know.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds comfortable and cozy, and that's exactly what
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: they were aiming for, and that's exactly what they're delivering,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: And that's exactly what Ed was hoping for with Marguerite,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: to have something like this Not only that, though, the
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: residents even had the luxury of a beauty shop being
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: in house, and there was a dedicated dining room where
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: they could.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Share meals, and it was just like there was even
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: craft activities and the opportunity for social studies classes so
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: they can keep up on like current events and everything. Wow,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: it was fantastic to say the least. Now, despite the
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: way that guilt set upon Ed's shoulders as they made
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the difficult transition with Marguerite attending Alpine Manor, the unexpected
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: homely ambiance of the facility perfided a very bittersuite kind
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: of solace to them.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, Alpine Manor had actually even earned accolades from
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Michigan health departments as a standout nursing home. It was
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: a perfect solution for both Marguerite and Ed. Like so,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: by mid nineteen eighties, Marguerite's deteriorating condition had now confined
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: her to the world where walking and talking were distant memories.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Oh man, that's sad.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's living within the Alpine Manor Home and she's
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: just getting worse and worse as the years goales on.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Ed witnessed the heartbreaking transformation as she spent her entire
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: days curled up into a ball, gently rocking back and forth,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: but undeterred, Ed remained committed. He would visit her every
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: single day.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, I feel that he is like husband.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Of the year, husband of the yeah century, maybe even who.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Knows doing a good job there.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Definitely so in the quiet moments of connection that he
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: had with Marguerite, though, they were able to communicate just
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: a little bit. Whenever he reached out his hand towards
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: her and Ed's voice filled the room, he would sip
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: beside her. Whatever the case. You could kind of see
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: this like fleeting eye contact apparently, where she just kind
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: of got happy again, where she became, even for a moment,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: the person who she once was.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that makes me want to cry.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Ed after these visits would gently tuck Margerite into bed,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: leaving her in the care of the dedicated staff on
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: his way out. It was a nightly ritual and they
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: would do this every single time.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Oh. I mean, you could only be so lucky to
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: have an Ed.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I feel like everyone should strive to have an edge basically. Now,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: of course, Marguerite was not the only person living within
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: the walls of Alpine Manor. There were many others, both
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: patients and healthcare professionals like operating within these walls. So
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: this brings us to twenty three year old Kathy Wood.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: She had harbored dreams of a career in healthcare. Her
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: journey had started with voluntary work as a nursing assistant
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: during high school, where her passion for helping others just blossomed. However,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: at the age of seventeen, Kathy's career aspirations took a
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: bit of a detour when she became pregnant. With the
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: responsibilities of motherhood taking precedence, Kathy made the decision to
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: put her dreams on hold. As life unfolded, she found
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: herself at a crossroads. Her daughter was now attending school,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: and she was eager to rekindle the flame for her
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: passion that she once had for nursing. Awesome, So, serendipitously,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: the nursing home that resided just a few blocks away
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Alpine Manor had openings for jobs, and Kathy wasted no
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: time in seizing the opportunity. Her enthusiasm and genuine commitment
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: to caregiving caught the attention of the management, and she
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: was promptly hired as a nursing aid pretty much on
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: the spot.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Kathy found herself aiding individuals with tasks ranging for
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: minor assistance to dressing to showering to providing comprehensive care
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: for high needs residents, encompassing daily activities such as eating, drinking, bathing,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: turning in bed to turning the patients in bed to
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: prevent pressure sores. Her diligence and good nature basically quickly
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: made her very likable, not only within the residence but
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: also within the staff that she was working with as well.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, because that's not I mean, all those things you described,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: that's not an easy job.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: No, it's not anyone who's doing these sort of jobs.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: It's difficult, not only physically, but I'm sure mentally as well.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and she was.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: She was a very hard worker. She was also said
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: to be very intelligent and easy to talk to as well.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: She seemingly like seamlessly just integrated in with the rest
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: of the staff and fit in with like the resident community.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: It swiftly like earned her as a reputation of a
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: valued member of not only working here, but that tight
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: knit community within within the walls. She was actually able
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: to embrace her night owl tendencies as well as she
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: gravitated towards the night shift, which were like the quieter hours,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: which let her have these deeper connections that she could
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: build with residents or other coworkers and stuff as the
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: residents are sleeping.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: She sounds kind of like an angel.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, she was doing everything she could, and she
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: was doing really well, and she was thriving, which I
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: think is most important. I think if you can use
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: the word thriving in terms of a home like this,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I think it's a good thing.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, through and through well, I mean I volunteered
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: like that at one point, thinking that's what I wanted
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: to do, and then I was like, not for me.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: So I think people that choose to do that and
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: you know, do a good job are just amazing because
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: it's so necessary. We need them.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Props to them now. An unintended consequence of her of
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: her genuine nature and infectious personality was the attention she
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: garnered from her peers. Colleagues affectionately followed her, hanging on
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: every word she spoke. It was a stark contrast from
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: what she was actually used to. So throughout her married
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: life she became very self conscious with herself. She grappled
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: with her weight, reaching almost four hundred and fifty pounds
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: after the birth of her daughter. Now, as such, Kathy
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: spent a lot of her life indoors, yet at Alpine
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Manner she found herself immersed in a rather supportive environment
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: where compliments replaced judgment. The new found camaraderie infected like
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Kathy's passion even more so. She's like, oh, like, I'm
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: going to this place where people like me, people want
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: to talk to me, people don't mind maybe my weight
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: or not judging. They're not judging whatever she's self conscious about.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: She doesn't have to be self conscious anymore.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: So this made her want to go to work, and
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: it even actually prompted her to take double shifts willingly
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: because she just liked it there that much. Yeah. Now,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: in the unfolding months, Kathy's transformation became a bit of
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: a concern for her husband, Ken. Days off, which used
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: to be you know, family time, right now saw Kathy
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: immersing herself in with socializing with the Alpine Manner staff,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: which I mean you get friends at work.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, to get that totally.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: But a notable shift began to emerge as Kathy would,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: who had never really consumed alcohol before, would now return
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: home from these gatherings quite drunk or even high and
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: just kind of like almost in a daze or a
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: stupor sort of thing. Okay, I mean she went from
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: basically a dedicated stay at home wife and mother to
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: now this constantly working individual who then was going out
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: and partying in her spare time and almost not having
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: a family life anymore.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: She even like displayed little interest in spending any time
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: with her daughter.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, because at first it was like good for her,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: because I mean, just doing it periodically or whatever.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Is more than Oh yeah, no, enjoy yourself for sure.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. If it's taking away pretty much all your time
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: from your family, that's not great.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: This was was becoming a problem, Okay. Yeah. Tensions escalated
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: at home, and they were marked by frequent fights between
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Kathy and Ken. Kathy also began sharing with Ken the
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: gossip circulating you know, around the nursing aids at the matter,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: which that happens. There's gossip at work, you talk, I
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: get it. Yeah. She had hell tales of love triangles,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: drunken threesomes, altercations, between love rivals, and he was just
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: like people are like fighting, fucking and doing everything else
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: under the sun. Like, what kind of box a conment
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: do this? Right?
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean that would probably alarm us spous a
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: little bit.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Yeah, for sure. He's basically like, what the
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: hell's going on at outline? Manner?
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Wow?
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: But I mean as of right now, like the facility
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: is still operating good. The residents are getting care and
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: that's the important part. As long as it doesn't spill
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: in between that line or crossover. I mean, I think
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that's important.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Now, on September of nineteen eighty six, only six months
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: after Kathy had joined Alpine Manor, she dropped a bombshell
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: and Ken she had fallen in love with someone else,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: an eighteen year old fellow nursing aid named Dawn. After
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: seven years of marriage, Kathy wanted a divorce.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, at first, eighteen was a little alarming, but I
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: guess she would have been a bit young on Yeah.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah she was. Yeah, I believe if I'm not mistaken,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I think she's about twenty three.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, So Ken hope.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: This was just a passing phase and she would return
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: to him. McAthy was adamant, and so Ken decided to
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: take their daughter and the two of them lived in
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: a hotel while Kathy remained in their family home. Now alone,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: she was struggling to make ends meet without Ken's financial support,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: and Kathy found herself in a bit of a pickle.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I actually wrote precarious situation, but I just really wanted
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: to say pickle for some reason. In that moment, I
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: was like, no, pickle sounds better.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: It does. I enjoyed that.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Who doesn't enjoy good pickle?
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: No? Dang, yeah, they're good.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: So the situation she found herself in was a fellow
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Alpine Manor staff member who was introduced to her through
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: a nursing head friend was twenty two year old Gwen Graham.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Although Gwen lacked prior nursing experience, she had taken on
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the role as stepping stone towards becoming a paramedic. An
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Alpine Manner's chronic understaffing led to Gwen being hired on
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: the spot spot, just like Kathy before her, in an
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: immediate connection between Kathy and Gwen, and within a week
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: of Gwen moving in because hey, you know financial support, right, Okay,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: So she moved in to help fill that voyage. Just
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: gets a little bit of rent, and within a week
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: of her moving in, Kathy severed ties with the eighteen
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: year old Dawn, and the relationship between Kathy and Gwen
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: quickly evolved from roommates to romantic partners.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: The nursing staff nerthing. Nursing nursing staff at the Manor
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: found amusement in the contrasting appearance in the newly formed
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: couple between Kathy and Gwen. Gwen had an athletic build,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: stood about five foot two inches tall, weighed about one
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: hundred and forty pounds, had bunch of freckles, and a
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: red haired mullet. Okay, well, In contrast, Kathy stood about
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: six feet tall, possessed her larger frame, striking blue eyes,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and bleached blonde hair. The staff playfully dubbed them the
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: perfect pair, joking that Kathy brought the brains while Gwen
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: contributed the brown. Oh mind, Yeah, so apparently it was
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: like a yin and a yang sort of situation. Yeahmplete
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: sort of opposites that attract.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I mean yeah, it makes sense yep.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Now, beyond their physical appearances, though, the duo found common
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: ground in their troubled upbringings. Cathy's pass was marked by
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: a strict and physical abuse with her father, with her
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: assuming a caregiver role as well for her siblings, and
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: her mother just kind of took a back seat. Meanwhile,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Gwen had endured the trauma of childhood sexual abuse perpetrated
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: by her own father, leading to self harm as a
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: coping mechanism during her teenage years. Neither of those situations
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: are good, So that sucks, not at all. So both
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: of them carried significant emotional baggage as a result between
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: these and harbored deep resentment towards their now elderly parents
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: in the workplace for Alpine manner, I mean, it's kind
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: of understandable to expect that it's common to have deaths, right, Okay, Yeah,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: I mean had your dealing with elderly palliative care sort
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: of situation, and they dealt with an average of five
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: to ten residents passing away each month due to age
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: related conditions. Ah So, shortly after Gwenn had joined the staff,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: she experienced her first encounter with death. An elderly woman
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: named Helen's succumbed to pneumonia and Gwen initially was devastated,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: she underwent a sudden transformation. However, after Helen's remains were
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: transferred from the funeral transferred to the funeral home, her
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: tears stopped and they were replaced quickly by a surprising
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: relevation to her colleagues that she apparently couldn't stand Helen,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: citing the constant whining as a source of her dislike
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: for her. Okay, so she started by crying and then
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: as soon as she was gone, Oh, I couldn't stand
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: that woman. She's constantly whining, like.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Ugh, oh that seems terrible.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not good.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: About a month into Gwen's employment, another new nursing aide
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: joined the night shift. She was in the middle of
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: responding to a residence call because I mean, they have
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: like a call button, right, Yeah, So she's in the
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: middle of responding to a call and entered the dark
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: room because it's the middle of the night. So the resident,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: you know, laying in bed, pushed the button, gets a call,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: and to her surprise, she found the resident fast asleep.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: So she's kind of like, what the hell.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a bit weird.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: So she searched for the mysterious like act like why
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: the button was activated sort of thing. Yeah, did they
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: roll over in the button or whatever. She's standing next
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: to the bed, kind of looking at the resident and
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: maybe searching for the button, and all of a sudden
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: a hand grabbed her ankle from underneath the bed, prompting
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: her to panic. She screamed and fled the room myself. Yeah,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: and she woke up quite a few of the residents
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: within the manner. Uh huh, it was Gwen. She was
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: playing a prank, hiding underneath the bed, and she emerged,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: laughing her ass off.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, I get that, but I also don't like
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: that's maybe a bit too far, especially.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: When you're dealing with residents like that, and like you
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: just woke them.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Up and disturbed them, right, Yeah, yikes.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So from here, Gwen's practical jokes like this only
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: began to escalate, leaving both staff and residents in a
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: perpetual state of like, is she standing around the corner?
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: What's going to happen next? Right? When she reveled in
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: playing these tricks in our colleagues, she would actually turn beds,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Like she'd go into rooms when other nursing aids are
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: aren't around, she'd turn the beds around, so when they
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: come in the room, it's like, what the heck, like
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: where's the resident or anything? Right, because they walk around
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: in the dark lots because the residents are sleeping. Yeah,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: and she would actually even swap residence rooms so she'd
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: be like, take this resident, put you in this room,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: this one over in this room, like just screw with people.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, I don't know if I love this.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: She even began removing wire screens from windows that backed
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: onto the courtyard, which allowed her swift escape if she
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: needed to, like to get out of there so people
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: don't catch her in the act sort of thing. Seriously,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: on next level, she would even like wait outside these
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: windows and like bang on the windows really hard to
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: like scare people inside. So, yeah, she was taking a
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: little far.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't really sound like it matches like the
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: description how you describe this place initially, right, Like it
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: seemed like kind of calming.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: And that's exactly what it was.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's not.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean I understand practical jokes, don't get
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: me wrong, I really do. But there's like you got
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: to kind of, like you said, match that sort of
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: energy of your place. Yeah, And understand who you're playing
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: pranks on, and you got to you got to do
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: it cautiously and carefully and ensure there's no harm done
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: to anyone. Yeah, you're playing pranks on this like with
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: your coworkers, there's there's collateral damage with these residents.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, and I just feel like that, like the
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: dark is scary enough. I mean, I don't know, I
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: don't love dark situations. And then also you're kind of
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: in a place where, like people, there's a lot of
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: death and stuff. Yeah, Like I just I think that
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: would make me feel very uneasy, to be honest.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I can't blame you. Now, the Nighthouse supervisor,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Tish PRIs Scott found herself caught in the crossfire of
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Gwen's antics. So she's kind of in charge, right, and
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: it's like, now this is all happening. It's people are
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: like what the fuck? Yeah, So she's fed up with
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: the Shenanigans, and Tish identified Kathy Would and Gwen as
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: the instigators behind much of the trouble. So these pranks
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: were in fact only part of the problem. The duo
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: we're actually using the PA system to gossip about other colleagues,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: and it actually even exploited residents with speech impediments, getting
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: them to read announcements for their amusement. So they're like
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: over the pa like to someone with a speech impediment
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: read this, and they're laughing at the way they're pronouncing
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: it and everything to the whole building.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, this has gone way too far.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: No, it's starting to get onto abuse now, yeah, is
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: what it is. Yeah. Now, despite Tish's attempts to separate
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Kathy and Gwen, all they would do is they would
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: just switch shifts with other nursing aids to ensure they're
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: still back on the same schedule shift with each other,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: so they could continue doing this.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I'm feeling like Gwen is a bad influence on Kathy potentially, yeah,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: because it just doesn't really seem like Kathy's mL to me.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: No, No, okay, well you do have to remember some
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: of these tendencies that she was starting to do before
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: she was.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Changing a bit. I guess, yeah, okay, because I'm thinking,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: like the og Kathy, the og Kathy, and this is
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: not like a two point zero version, this is a negative.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now. There were also reports that began circulating that
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: apparently some nursing aids I'm assuming Kathy and Gwen in particular,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: but it's nursing aids. I'm encompassing all who were sneaking
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: off for romantic encounters in unoccupied beds of the residency. Tish,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: with this information, took her concerns about Kathy and Gwen
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: to the director of nursing and emphasized the two were
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: jeopardizing the well being of those under their care. In
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: a plea for intervention, she stated, quote, those two are
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: just no good for each other. However, upper management declared
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: that their hands were tied, asserting that whatever staff choose
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: to do on their breaks was beyond their control, leaving
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: the chaotic atmosphere unchecked.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, they're kind of in a tough position.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: If they already have a shortage, right, they can need
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: these two.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah, they were dealing with quite a shortage
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: as well. So yeah, and I don't I think that's
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: a contrast between back in the eighties to now. It's like, yeah,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: during persons break, like you could go off and get
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: drunk the pub basically and come back and perform your work,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: whereas nowadays it's like, yeah, no way. It's a lot
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: different from then now it's quite stark. One night now,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: on December nineteenth, eighty six, this marked a particularly distressing
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: turn of events at Alpine Manor. Gwen showed up to
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: work intoxicated so severe that she couldn't walk in a
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: straight line well taking immedia action. Nice Nighthouse supervisor Tish
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: pre Scott sent Gwen home and promptly reported the incident
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: to management, expecting that such behavior would warrant termination. And right,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, you showed up to work and you can't
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: even stand. Yeah, it's one thing if you just had
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: a beer or two, like you go off in your
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: lunch break and you know, have some drinks, right, But no,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: she's sloshed, she's.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Hammered like there's yeah, there's no way that she can
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: do her job.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: No, she can barely walk, let alone do her job.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: She supposed to be caring for people. I don't think so.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: But however, to everyone's surprise, Gwen was back on shift
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: the very next night at four thirty one am without
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: any repercussions.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Wow, I mean I feel bad for that. The supervisor too,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: I would like lose my absolutely. Oh.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: They're in a tough spot because they want something done,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: but they can't do it themselves without the okay from
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: upper management, and the upper management's like, no, seems good
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: for me.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, I feel for her for sure.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Okay. In that same faithful month, though, Nancy hand received
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: in life altering call in the early hours of the night.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: The voice on the other end of the phone identified
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: themselves as a nurse from Alpine manner and they informed
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Nancy that her mother, who was a resident there, Belle Burkhart,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: had rapidly been declining and might not make it through
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: the day.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Oh jeez.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Now, Nancy lived three hours away from Alpine Manor and
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: was unable to afford the day off, so she managed
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: to do what she needed to do get through her
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: long shift and then was hoping and in praying that
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: her mother would still be alive when she was driving
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: to the manor.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: After one.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Upon reaching Alpine Manor, Nancy rushed to her mother's room
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: to find it empty. Her mom wasn't in there. She
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: went to the nursing station and asked where her mom was,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: but none of the nurses had any information on where
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: she was. The staff was kind of bewildered, and I
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: mean so was Nancy, and Nancy's like, well, I received
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: this phone call that she was like declining, what's going on?
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Her mom? Bell was eventually discovered sitting in the dining room, alive, normal,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: completely fine, just with other residents, just doing her thing.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Nancy was, of course relieved, but quite confused.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: She fed her mother dinner, and you know, the whole
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: situation was just like what the fuck in the back
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: of her mind. So she went and talked to the
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: nurses and the nurse in charge, and they checked the records,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: and they revealed that no one logged a call to Nancy.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: There were no staff notes indicating any concern for Bell's health,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: and it became very painfully clear that Nancy was a
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: victim of a cruel prank call orchestrated by someone on
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: the night shift at Alpine Manor.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, that is just fucked.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't it. Holy shit, prank calling your mom's dying.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: That is not okay. Like now I'm just like pissed. Yeah, wow,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: I would have I would have just lost my absolute mind. Yeah,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: like I literally would have just like, holy shit, that
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: is beyond.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, But that's exactly what happened.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Wow. Wow. I mean it's good that the Mom's okay,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: but holy shit, that's just so.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: You don't do that to a person. You don't make
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: it all like that.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, she she couldn't afford to get there,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: so she had to like stress all day while she
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: was trying to work. And then she obviously you know,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: doesn't have a lot of extra money, and she's spending
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: a gas for six hour drive like with their and
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: back yep, and then it has to probably go to
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: work the next day tires fuck yep. Wow, Okay, yep.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: That's all I can say is yep, because everything you
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: said was right. But yet that whoever this person was
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: who made this call doesn't really seem to care. They
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: just think it's funny.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: That is an absolute animal.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, concerns, of course, were coming forward, especially regarding
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: the quality of care at Alpine Manner. An anonymous complaint
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: was lodged with Michigan Health Department in late nineteen eighty six,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: the facility under scrutiny. Disturbing reports surfaced depicting residents who
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: were left in soiled incontinence garments for extended periods of
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: time and received very infrequent baths only once a week.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: So basically they're just someone called in saying that, like, hey,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: people are just like soiling themselves. No one's changing or
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: cleaning them. It's getting bad now. The high turnover rate
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: among staff was part of the problem, with one hundred
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: and twelve nurse aids hired and seventy one of them
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: leaving by October that same year was identified as this
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: key contributing factor. In response to the public outcry, Alpine
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Manner underwent an unannounced visit from a health inspector. The
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: facility had undergone noticeable changes from what we discussed at
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: the beginning of this podcast, with the atmosphere described now
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: as eerie by one staff member. Residents were seemingly treated
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: like children, spoke to in childlike voices, and as such,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: even had their hair styled into pigtails to match it.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: The previous diverse craft room was now featured only chill
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: children's coloring books with a handful of crayons, and there
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: was cartoon pictures taped to the walls. Wheelchair bound residents
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: were left unoccupied, all just pushed together with nothing to
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: engage them, while a local radio station blared over the
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: PA systems in an attempt to drownded out the unsettling
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: sounds of residents with dementia.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Wow, and this is all because of Gwen and Cathy.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Hey like that many people are leaving because they're just
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: disturbed by I mean, their actions and the environment that
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: it's creating.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do want to say that I believe there
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: was a high turnover rate still before them, but I'm
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: sure they were a contributing factor to the current high rate.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, because all these people like they're in demand,
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: they can easily go somewhere else and get it another job, right, Yeah, definitely.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: So it's like, if you're not completely happy, why wouldn't
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: you just find another facility to or?
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Of course, now, a post inspection report was issued and
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: it found that Alpine Manor was adhering to state guidelines
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: and practicing safely. No further follow up was deemed necessary.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: How the fuck was that determined?
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know. You got me, okay? Now, Upper management
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: continued to offer their praise to Kathy and Gwen, labeling
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: them as extremely hard workers who often took double shifts
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: to compensate for understaffing. I mean, we know they took
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: double shifts, but I guarantee you it wasn't for understaffing.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Gwen in particular, demonstrated her competency by scoring an impressive
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: ninety seven percent on a test administered by the State
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Health Department, further complicating issues and claims against her. The
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: state department examiner in regards with Gwen adorned her competency
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: test papers with words great on every single page and
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: a big old smiley face. I think we've all worked
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: with a Gwen who just pulls the wool over management's eyes.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's just so interesting the divide that can
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: happen right between like upper management and then people like
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: supervisors or whatever that are actually within the field.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Oh definitely, it's.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Really like alarming and quite disheartening. Really.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I can tell you I've been a supervisor
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: in the field and I've had that disconnection between upper
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: management and it's it's disheartening to the point where, hey,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I left that job and I left in a hurry.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not good.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So apparently Gwen's creative approach to care, particularly her
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: use of wash cloths, drew admiration from the department. See
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Gwen was known for carrying wash cloths, often seen with
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: one flapping out of her back pocket of her pants
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: at all times. So what she would do she would
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: roll all these wash clops cloths into like a log
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: shape and place them in residents clenched hands to prevent
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: fingernails from digging into their skin. Makes sense to me,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Totally good, right now. Kathy and Gwen foster this tight
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: knit circle of friends at work, but none of not everyone.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: I'll say that, not everyone bought into their camaraderie. Some
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: staff members saw Kathy and Gwen as bullies and liars
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: who wielded power through intimidation. In one disturbing incident that
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: occurred was sorry, one that did occur was when Kathy
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: falsely accused a disliked fellow aid of neglecting to change
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: soiled garments overnight. The charge nurse. The nurse in charge
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: right accompanied Kathy to investigate the claim, and they discovered
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: a resident lying in a puddle of urine, when in reality,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: what happened Kathy had enlisted Glen. Sorry, Gwen, don't know
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: where I got Glenn from. Enlisted Gwen to pour cups
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: of water over the resident's legs to create the appearance
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: of neglect. Gwen, as quoted in later years acknowledged the
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: fear Kathy instilled in others, stating, quote, everybody was scared
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: of Kathy. Kathy would mess with you. That was just
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: her thing, and everybody knew it.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, I mean I don't honestly, just the more
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I hear, don't blame how many people are leaving there?
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, definitely not.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: And her manipulations were further exposed in another encounter with
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: a difficult resident. So this was a man who was
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: known to yell all day and he would quickly silence
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: just at the sight of Kathy. And whenever she entered
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: the room, she would leaning close and she would whisper
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: in his ear. With that, a look of fear would
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: across his face. And when asked by a nursing aid
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: who witnessed this, Kathy told her what she said, and
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: she said, quote, I said, go ahead, scream one more time,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: but look at me. I'm bigger than you. I'm huge.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: In fact, you are helpless. I'm not.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: You.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Scream one more time and I will kill you and
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: there's nothing you can do to stop me.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Hm. Wow.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: I think I would shut up and be scared shitless too. Yeah,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: and I'd be screaming all the time, try and get
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: out of there.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: This is like a resident, right, this is a resident.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Is an elderly resident who is There's clearly something going
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: on with his mental health as well, because he's screaming
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: all day.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Ah oh wow.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Now, the aide who witnessed this didn't know what to
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: do in response, but she was frightened the potential repercussions
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: from Kathy and Gwen because they're known for their bullying
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: and their intimidation. So she chose not to report the
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: incident to management.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, though, I feel like reporting it may
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: not have even.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Done anything, Probably not, and that's probably part of the
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: reason why she didn't.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Now, one night, nursing aid Lodonna, working the night shift,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: encountered eighty seven year old Carla Pierce, who had been
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: at the facility for six years at this time and
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: was battling dementia. Carla usually was lucid and was now
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: screaming with terror, claiming that someone was going to kill her. Now, previously,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: the doctor had ordered Clara's wrist to be tied to
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: the bed due to recent incidences of her wandering the halls.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: At night. So I mean she was just strapped to sleep, right,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: so she didn't get in harms way sort of thing. Yeah. Lo. Donna, however,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: realized Clara. I released Clara to a company or to
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: the bathroom and then back to bed, and as she
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: attempted to reapply the restraints, Clara pleaded not to be
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: tied up, insisting someone was coming to kill her. Despite reassurance,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Donna left Clara alone, strapped to the bed, gripped with fear.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Oh that is this. Okay, this is just so uncomfortable
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: to listen to because it's just so sad. It's so sad.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Well, should I keep going? Are you going to stop here?
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: That's the episode?
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Oh no, we have to keep going. But this is
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: just getting worse and worse. It's a little bit scary.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Well that's backtrack just a little bit to someone a
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: little more familiar. Well, we're not going to backtrack. It's
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: the same timeline, but we're going to talk about someone
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: we know about. On Christmas Day in nineteen eighty six,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Ed Chambers visited his wife Marguerite at Alpine Manor, accompanied
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: by their daughter Jan. Now. Disturbingly, Jan found Marguerite with
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: dried food around her mouth. Now, this indicated neglect since
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: her last meal, right, she had eaten and no one
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: has been helping your care for her since.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: So when Jen attempted to clean her mother's face, Marguerite
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: reacted very oddly. Unable to speak due to her advanced Alzheimer's,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Jen noticed a significant change in her mother. A very
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: haunting expression of absolute terror was now on her face.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: In the week prior, Marguerite had been primarily cared for
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: by Kathy and Gwen. Marguerite's condition deteriorated physically, and on Sunday,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: January eighteenth, nineteen eighty seven, Ed Chambers returned to find
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: his wife unresponsive. Despite efforts to revive her, Marguerite passed
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: away at the age of sixty.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Wow, okay, oh, I didn't want you to bring her back.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: I just thought they had this like, well, it wasn't
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: a beautiful life, but I really liked.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Ed and it was romantic sort of size situation.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Then yeah, But I mean, yeah, I mean it was
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: inevitable that she was probably going to pass away, But
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: it does seem like maybe she could have lasted longer
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: if she wasn't neglected. But I don't know. Yet yeah.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Now, following protocol, the charge nurse contacted the on call doctor,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: who unwillingly her sorry, unwilling to travel through the heavy
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: snow that was currently on the roads and everything, ordered
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Marguerite to be transferred to the mortuary over the phone.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: The doctor signed her death certificate citing a heart attack
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: without any physical examination of her body. Three weeks later,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: on February third, a nurse at Alpine Manor noticed blood
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: dripping from the nose of ninety five year old resident
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Myrtle Loose, though she applied a compress and made a
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: note that the incident didn't raise some real concerns. Right,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: I means she's older, and Myrtle was a victim of
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: a stroke and organic brain syndrome, which generally meant she
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: spent her days in a fetal position except when her
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: son visited and triggered momentary awareness and she would get
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: a smile on her face. But the disturbing pattern continued
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: at Alpine Manor, with Cathy openly expressing her hate from
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Myrtle due to her high care needs and she found
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: her too challenging to care for a week. After Myrtle
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: received treatment from an unexplained nosebleed. Myrtle was found lifeless
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: in bed. This time, her nose appeared to be bruised
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: and covered in mucus, with a rolled up washcloth laying
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: beside her.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what to say anymore at this point.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, because Okay, the rolled up washcloth is like
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: an indication that, like when I guess was there or Kathy, I.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Guess Gwen was the one who would do it.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, Oh my gosh, Okay, this is just so disturbing.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Where's your head at? I'm curious.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I think that these two are murdering assholes. Is where
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: my head's at. And I'm freaking pissed about it. Okay, Okay,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Like I have an extreme hatred towards them right now,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: and I hope that I am semi satisfied at the
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: end of this that they get what is coming to them.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, similar to the previous incident with Marguerite, the
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Alpine Manner, doctor, without examination, sent Myrtle's body directly to
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: the mortuary, listing the cause of death as a heart attack.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Myrtle's death came as a surprise to her loved ones,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: as she had recently just undergone a physical examination the
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: day prior, with a doctor praising her apparently impeccable health,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: healthy heart, and here she is a week later having
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: a heart attack, an alleged heart attack by the doctor
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: who didn't even examine her.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I kind of get the doctor situation,
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: because I mean a lot of people are dying in there,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: right and.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: It's a part of the atmosphere.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, but still it needs to have attention.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: He still needs to do his fucking job.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Now, days later, Kathy and Gwen invited Kathy's ex girlfriend
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Don to their home. This was the girlfriend in between
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: her ex husband and Gwen that lasted like two weeks.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay, okay, So he invited.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Don to their home.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: During a casual gathering in their living room, Gwen casually
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: mentioned her responsibility for Myrtle's death, Dawn if she wanted
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: to see.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Proof, just casually yep, like casually mention that I'm a
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: fucking asshole.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Pretty much, okay, cool. So in her bedroom, on a shelf,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: she had a single sock that apparently belonged to Myrtle. Now, Initially,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: Dawn struggled to wrap her head around the claim of
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: this I killed her sort of thing, and this sock
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: is hers. She considered the possibility that the parents stolen
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: the sock from Myrtle, or that it actually belonged to
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Kathy and they were trying to just like basically screw around,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: play a prank or something. I mean they always did, right. Yeah,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: She's just like, Okay, maybe this isn't actually what's going on.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: But the unsettling incidents at Alpine Manor after this only
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: seemed to continue, with the mysterious deaths of residents raising
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: more questions about the facility's care. On the morning of
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: February sixteenth, nineteen eighty seven, nursing aid Sean attended to
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: seventy year old May Mason, who had all Zeimer's disease
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: and appeared agitated. Despite Sean's attempt to freshen her up
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: with a damp washcloth, May resisted, grabbing and swiping at
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: the cloth. When Sean returned later, May's skin had turned
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: gray and her fingernails were blue. She was pronounced dead
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: at four am. May's family physician attributed her death to
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: cardiac arrest, marking the second death in a span of
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: six days following Myrtle Loose. The following day, seventy four
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: year old Belle Burchard around I'm sorry, another resident at
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Alpine Manor, was discovered with bruising around her nose and
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: right cheek. Due to her history of seizures, the injury
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: was attributed to a presumed unwitnessed seizure during the night,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: assuming that she must have smacked her head on the
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: like the bed frame or.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Something like that. Yeah.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: On February twenty sixth, Kathy would volunteer to supervise the
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: nurse's station during a break. At three am, Bell would
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: be found dead in her bed. Examination of her remains
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: revealed an odd angle of Bell's arm beneath her body
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: with noticeable bruising. Kathy's nursing friends suggested that the bruising
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: might be a result of an inadequate turning during the night.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: The matter was dismissed and Bell's body was sent to
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: the mortuary without a doctor's examination.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Once again, Oh my gosh, are they actually beating these people?
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: Oh that is just that makes me just feel so ill,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: like so ill.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: I can't say anything just yet. We'll get there, We'll
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: get there, okay. Cat As the number of sudden deaths
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: at Alpine manor continued to rise, Kathy and Gwen and
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: their associates spiraled further out of control. On their days off,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: the couples hosted wild parties at their home with drinking
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: and some drug use, where staff and attendants would run
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: up and down the street, popless and it just got
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: worse from there. The disorderly group, for no apparent reason,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: frequently got into physical fights at pubs and clubs. Nursing
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Aid LaDonna, during one altercation, had two teeth knocked out.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: Reflecting on their behavior later in later years, Laddnna remarked, quote,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: we had all gone crazy. We didn't care for each
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: other's feelings. We didn't have any feelings.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: In April of nineteen eighty seven, the situation reached a
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: new low when Nursing Aid Katherine had a black eye
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: and a sling in her arm and apparently cracked ribs.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: She initially attributed who injuries to an accident, but the
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: truth emerged and Kathy had lured her to a deserted
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: area with a pretext of hooking up. Gwen confronted Catherine
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: and violently knocked her to the ground and began repeatedly
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: punching and kicking her in the chest and stomach. When
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: questioned about the incident later on at work, Gwen smiled
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: and replied, I wouldn't do something like that. Oh, she's
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: disturbing and she faced no consequences.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Reports of Kathy and Gwen's toxic behavior flooded management. Yet
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: the manager and friend of Kathy dismissed the bullying reports
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: and decided to separate Kathy from the aids who were
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: making the allegations against her. In another way, instead of
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: addressing the issue, she solved this problem by giving Kathy
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: a promotion.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's honestly what I thought you were going to say. Wow.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: She was now in charge of the nursing aids on
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: her shift.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Oh my word.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Kathy's promotion to Alpine Manor, however, created a riff in
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: the relationship with Gwen, who believed she deserved the promotion more.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: I don't think either of them deserve a promotion, but whatever.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: They deserve something, but not a promotion.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: Uh. Their dynamics at home because of this were deteriorating,
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: leading to frequent arguments fights which like occasionally escalated further
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: into actual physical violence. The walls their home was now
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: rather holy, with fist marks going through drywall as they
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: were punching in fits of rage. And it only escalated
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: even more when Kathy learned about Gwen's affair with another
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: nursing aid, and screams could be heard at other houses
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: down the street.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Man, these two are just wild, man.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Kathy's fury would ultimately leave Gwen with a
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: visible with a bunch of visible like scratches and bruises
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: and stuff as she's coming to work and stuff. People
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: could see that there's definitely domestic violence occurring within their
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: home by nineteen eighty seven. By mid nineteen eighty seven,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: Gwen decided she had had enough and moved out of
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Kathy's home. Joining her was Heather Barker, a twenty one
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: year old nursing aid from Alpine, Manor who became Gwen's
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: new girlfriend. Together, the two plotted to leave gran Rap
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: and start a new life in Gwen's hometown in Texas. However,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: Kathy discovered their plans and confronted Gwen, insisting that she
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: come back home with her forget all this, and after
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: a heated argument between the two, Gwen did exactly that.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: She agreed and she went back home with Kathy.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: From there, they both went back to Kathy's home and
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: the two immediately went to the bedroom. Kathy then revealed
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: some restraints she had taken from Alpine Manor, and she
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: began binding Gwen's wrist to the bed. With Gwen now bound,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: assuming for sexual reasons, Kathy then held a loaded gun,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: a gun that belonged to Gwen. She took the gun,
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: walked to the foot of the bed, and inserted the
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: loaded gun barrel into Gwen and threatened to kill her.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Holy shit, quote, I'll kill you. That's exactly what she said,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: with the gun now inside of her, the barrel loaded
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: inside of her.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this woman. Okay.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Kathy left Gwen like this, tied up for three hours,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: with the barrel of the loaded gun still inserted. She
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: returned three hours later and released her. Following this and
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: a discussion, Kathy and Gwen mutually agreed to end the relationship.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Gwen reunited with Heather, who questioned, like, Hey, why'd you
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: go back to Kathy, and Gwen could only respond with, quote,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Kathy has something over me.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, she seems like she's kind of that type
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: of person, but not that Gwen is an angel either, so.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Well, I want to That's kind of what I thought
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: when I was first researching this, But I really want
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: to break this sentence down. Kathy has something over me.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: What could something mean? It could mean a lot of things.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: Our initial response is she has something over me, like
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: she has my heart, or like she just has this
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: way about her that really draws me in. But she
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: has something over me. Could mean a lot of things. Well, now,
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: could mean information.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: I was just kind of thinking, maybe Kathy is the
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: one that's getting when to kill these people, and so
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: she has that she has that exactly.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: It could mean a lot more than just oh, she
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: has this way about her that draws me in or
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: something like that, you know what I mean. There's much
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: more than this superficial level of what you first hear
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: when you read that sentence or get it read to
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: you or whatever. There's more to it, I think than
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: we could ever know noep So, Gwen and Heather in
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: August of nineteen eighty seven, packed their belongings into Gwen's
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: car and fled Texas. Left with nowhere else to go,
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Kathy returned to her ex husband Ken. She confessed to
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Ken about the disturbing acts that she and Gwen had
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: committed while working at Alpine Manor. Expressing fear and desire
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: to disclose the truth, she demanded Ken and his assurance
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: of secrecy before divulging the most shocking of all the details.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: After Ken promised to keep everything confidential, Kathy posed a
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: chilling question to him, quote, what's the worst thing you
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: could think of to do to someone? Murder is what
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: came to mind when Ken thought of that. He said, well,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: murder someone, I guess to kill them, And Kathy responded
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: by saying, quote, well try six times.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: She recounted the story of one of the victims, ninety
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: seven year old Edith Cook, a beloved resident of Alpine
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Manor for six years. Edith once described the facility as
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: grand and lovely. She had suffered a rapid decline in health,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: developing pressure sores and painful gangrene. On the night of
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: April seventh, nineteen eighty seven, Edith Cook was found dead
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: in her bed, with Kathy as the assigned night nurse
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: and Gwen working the same wing. Ken tried to understand
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: if Kathy and Gwen had committed these acts to potentially
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: end the suffering of a resident, someone who's like their
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: health is so far gone. It's like more of a
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: humane act to put him out of their misery sort
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: of thing. He's like, is that why, Yeah, to which
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Kathy just replied, quote, no, we did it for fun.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, for fun.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: She revealed that the idea initially to murder residents rose
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: from boredom and the pair wondered what it would be
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: like to kill. Their first victim was sixty year old
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Marguerite Chambers. On the night of January eighteenth, nineteen eighty seven.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: After Marguerite's husband left the night, Kathy and Gwen approached
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: her room, and Kathy kept watching the door. Gwen slipped inside,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: armed with two washcloths rolled into log shapes. Kathy claimed
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: that Gwen positioned one washcloth on to Marguerite's chin and
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: the other over her nose, squeezing tightly. Marguerite struggled to
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: free herself, but Gwen easily overpowered her. Less than thirty
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: minutes later, Marguerite was found lifeless.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: This, however, was not their first attempt. They had tried
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: the same method a month earlier. Kathy explained to Ken
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: how they aimed to spell out the word murder in
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: the log book by targeting residents with specific initials, so
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: when they recorded individuals' names, they wanted to spell that
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: word with the first letter of their name.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: You're shitting me. That's literally how they pitched these people.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: It proved too challenging. The residents with the desired actual
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: initials were not ideal candidates. They were often like too
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: active or too lucid, So instead they chose victims who
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: were nonverbal or suffering from advanced dementia, making it less
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: likely for them to communicate with their experiences. They feared
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: that like, okay, if this person whose name starts with
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: a you, for example, they're in too good a health.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: If we can't get the job done and they scream
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: and we get found out, yeah right, so well, I.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: Mean because it was such a big facility, right as
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: then there's other people working there, oh the time?
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: Right, definitely? Yeah, you bet you so yeah. Now, to
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: test the victims reactions, Kathy and Gwen would pinch their
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: nose while in bed, like, is this a good candidate?
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: We'll just pinch their nose. See how they fight off
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: like their nose being pinched, right, And if a resident
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: was too resistant, then they would move on to someone else.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: Residents who were found with unexplained bruising or bloody noses
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: were the unfortunate subjects of their experiments.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: So when it was time to carry out the murders,
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Gwen use washcloths as a mean to try and prevent
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: visible bruising bruising. According to Kathy, Gwen claimed that killing
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: someone made her feel more relaxed and helped to ease
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: her tension. Both Kathy and Gwen believe that sharing the
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: dark secret of murder would solidify their bond forever. Huh,
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: which is fucked up?
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: Like I'm just so, they're literally like using one wash
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: cloth on their nose and another one under the chin.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So they're holding their hand over their mouth, and
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: then they're holding their other hand on the bottom of
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: their chin to prevent their mouth from opening. So they're
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: holding their mouth clothes and then preventing oxygen from getting in.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: And they're using wash cloths as cushioning to prevent like
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: them hitting or scratching or scraping.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: So, oh my gosh. Yeah, they are both so disturbed.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: That just is wild. There's more, okay, cool.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: We'll touch on some more of the information here a
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: I cannot imagine. His name's Ken, right, Yeah, I do
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: not know what I would do if someone was confessing
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: that kind of shit to me.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: Want to know the next sentence I have written for
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: this case. Ken struggled with the decision of what to
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: do with the information Kathy had confided in him.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I just don't like, this was someone that
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: you have a child with that you loved, right, love
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: or loved? I just I don't know that would the
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: the emotions that would be going through you.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, No, Ken had no idea what to do.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: He's just like, what the fuck?
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: Also, like, should I fucking run because it's just a
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: murderer now.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: He actually kept her confession to himself for over a
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: year and a half while she was still working at
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: Alpine manor.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: What. Yeah, I mean that is tough though, because like,
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: but she could be killing more, like because she's the
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: mother of his kid. But then what she could be killing?
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: I know, Well that was my question. Is she killing
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: more people during that time? Because then he's an accomplished
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: almost in my opinion, Yeah, did she kill more people?
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: We'll get into that.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this is too much.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: Well, eventually, in October sixth, nineteen eighty eight, Ken made
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: a crucial decision. He was driving past a police station
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: and in that moment, he turned around the vehicle went
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: inside to report Kathy's alarming elevation revolution.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: I'm very shocked that it took that long, but okay,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: that's good.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: Well, and they actually questioned him on like why it
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: took him so long to come forward, and he explained
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: that he didn't want to destroy his life or his
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: wife's life. Where's kid's life? Yeah, you bet, but he
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: felt a responsibility to make sure that she wasn't dangerous,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: which it means like a year and a half, she
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: could have done a lot more damage.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Still, well, she was probably promising to him that she
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: would never do it again kind of thing. Right, Yeah,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: he's manipulated.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she definitely is. We know that for sure. So
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: now the next day, Kathy was at work when a
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: detective arrived at Alpine manorout expressing surprise, whatsoever, we're asking
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: any questions? She has grabbed her coat and accompanied the
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: detective for questioning.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, yeah, just peace like just just so
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: evil that, you know, that they're there for you.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, with the interview with the authorities, Kathy admitted
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: to her involvement in the murders, confirming the death of
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: five victims, Marguerite Chambers, May Mason Bell, Burkhardt, Edith Cook,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: and Myrtle Loose. She suggested that there might have been
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: three more victims killed by Gwen, but Cathy claimed not
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: remembering the details or asserting that she wasn't present at
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: work during those instances.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: I think she would a remember and be it just
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: dawn on me. These families are now going to have
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: to find this out, like, oh, it's just gut wrenching.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Well, to make it worse, like during when they're interviewing her,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: she actually openly described planning these these crimes as quote,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: almost exciting in a way. How do you think a
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: family members is gonna feel when they hear that?
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, because all these family members chose to put
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: their loved ones in there, made that really hard decision.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: And then like.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: That's counting on these nurses.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: It's just something that you I don't think, I mean
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: not that you should, but you would feel guilt and
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't and oh, I just okay, this is too
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: much well.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: She recalled specific details, such as the night when Gwen
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: murdered seventy nine year old May Mason. So Gwen had
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: initially informed Kathy of her intention, but Kathy warned her
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: that it wasn't right time due to the presence of
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: two nurses nearby, and Kathy had actually been assigned to
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: a different wing, so it looked suspicious if she's over
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: in this wing, right, So to avoid detection, Kathy did
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: go over to that wing, but she went over there
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: with the intent of distracting the nurses with gossip and chatter,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: so while she was doing that, Gwen slipped into May's bedroom.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: Another close call actually occurred when Gwen killed Belle Burkheart.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: Kathy had volunteered to supervise the nurse's station during the break. Right,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: we talked about that, and Gwen, equipped with two washcloths
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: in her pocket, entered Bell's room while Kathy kept lookout.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: Kathy could hear noises over the inter calm, including rustling sheets, groaning, gurgling,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: which ceased after just a few minutes, so other residents
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: would have heard her being murdered.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, yep.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: And she was the one who was found with her
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: arm in a strange position beneath her body.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: So Kathy revealed that Gwen explained Belle had resisted fiercely,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: leading to the bruising on her arm caused by Gwen
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: kneeling on it to restrain her.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Okay, like that's pretty like good for
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: her for putting up a fight, because this is oh yeah,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: it's pretty disgusting when someone is doing this to people
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: that are, you know, like pretty helpless.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it's well, I mean that's there's this general
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: consensus within a lot of prison systems that if you
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: abuse women or children, you will get abused in prison
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: because you are you are you're praying on those weaker
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: than you physically, right yep. And I mean that's not
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: every case, but it's generally accepted sort of thing in
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: the prison system that's the case. And so that they
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: look at you as weak and you don't like you're
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: an asshole, you're a piece of shit, like you can't
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: fight a fair fight. And that's what these two are doing.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: They're not fighting a fair fight. They're picking on those
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: not only weaker, but they can't even speak out if
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: they fail. Man, Yeah, so when asked about Gwen's motivation
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: for murder, Cathy suggested that Gwen enjoyed pain and painful things,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: possibly wanting others to feel pain due to the pain
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: in her life as well. Kathy claimed that her roles
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: in the murder ended because she grew tired of it
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: and no longer wanted to be a lookout. She never
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: asked Gwen to stop because she wanted Gwen to be happy.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: While the original plan was for them to take turns
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: as the murderer, Kathy could never bring herself to commit
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: the act. She explained, quote, those people in there were
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: like family to me, and I couldn't do that to them.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, all of a sudden, you're just deciding
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: that you're like a good person for like a brief second.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: That's the biggest bullshit, piece of shit statement I've ever
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: heard of my life.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: It's so interesting because at first it seemed like Kathy
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: was like a good person. Yeah, So I don't understand
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: what tainted her so bad. I don't know, or if
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: she really actually wasn't a good person ever.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: I really don't huh now. Kathy had also claimed that
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Gwen had kept mementos from each of the victims, as
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: well a sock, a sock from Merla, loose jewelry from
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: Bell Burkehart, an earring from Edith Cook, a key ring
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: trinket from May Mason, and a balloon from Marguerite Chambers.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: Gwen allegedly stored these items in a shoe box in
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: the bathroom, but when she moved out, she supposedly threw
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: the box away. Okay, so those are alleged items. Oh
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: they were never found.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: Oh okay. I was thinking that she did actually keep
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: on to keep a hold of them.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: Nope, at least they were never found or recovered.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: As part of the investigation, police rated Alpine Manner and
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: search files related to the resident's death. During the search,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: detectives came across a letter written by Kathy, and the
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: letter expressed Kathy's feelings for Gwen and contained lines like quote,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: I love you, Gwen. I think you are great for
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: this afternoon. I cannot wait. That's when we'll wake up,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: and that's when I'll kiss you. That's when I'll hold you. Oh, Gwen,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: I miss you. In the course of the investigation into
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: the Alpine Manner murders, a poem was also discovered by Kathy,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: and it read quote bunny hop over here and let
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: me lick you on the ear. Oh please, you'll say
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: You'll be mine forever and five days. When question about
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: that last line, be mine forever and five days, Kathy
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: explained that it represented their take on Shakespeare's line forever
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: and a day, except they added an extra day for
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: every time they killed a resident. Wow, how fucked up
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: is that?
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: Also, Kathy's poems are shit, like, she's just shit at everything,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: Like those poems suck. I'm just oh, I'm just so
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: sitting over here, so disturbed and uncomfortable, and I just
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: didn't enjoy those poems at all.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: I can't say I enjoyed them either. I like her
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: poems suck your piece of shit? Never write poems again?
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Wow, definitely not gonna like snap the fingers at her
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: poem reading now anytime soon never Well. Six days after
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: Kathy's ex husband first approached the police officers, they arrived
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: at Gwen's residence in Texas, although no concrete evidence of
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: murder had been uncovered yet. Gwen was arrested for writing
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: bad checks three years earlier, in the hopes that she
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: might crack while in jail.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: However, Gwen protested her innocence and even offered to take
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: polygraph test. The results, unfortunately, were inconclusive, and Gwen was released.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: Seriously, okay, I'll keep listening because she better not be
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: released for good.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: As part of the investigation, Kathy also took a polygraph test.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: She seemed to play a subtle game during the test,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: trying to manipulate the results, leading the examiner to believe
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: that Gwen hadn't actually killed anyone, and Kathy being the manipulator,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: she is being the actual killer instead.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but she still knew stuff and was a part
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: of it, so she's non innocent.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: Gwen. You mean, yeah, yeah, fair enough, But there is
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: a big difference between accomplishing and actually killing. There is
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: a big difference. But it doesn't mean you're not a
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: piece of shit. You are.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: But yeah, but I think Kathy was at like the
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: nurses stations at times when I thought Gwen was murdering,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: So I don't We'll see.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's all what Cathy said.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very true.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: After six weeks of investigation, an excavator was brought to
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: the Rosedale Memorial cemetery to eXeem the remains of Marguerite
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: Chambers and Edith Cook at the okay of family.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: Members, I know, but still the family having to be
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: asked that horrible.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: There there was I don't think I kept it in here,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: but there was a a remark by Ed oh not
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: ed about how he had to live through Marguerite's death
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: once and now he doesn't want to do it again.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Yeah, or I feel so.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: Bad for ed But anyways, Marguerite and Edith were the
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: only two out of the five who had not been cremated.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, So medical examiners were checking for washcloth fibers
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: and signs of suffocation such as like stippling or whatever
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, but due to decay, the
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: results were inconclusive.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: Dang.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: However, based on circumstantial evidence and the findings during the examination,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: the cause of death for Marguerite and Edith was changed
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: from heart attack to homicide. On December fourth, nineteen eighty eight,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: detectives surrounded Gwen Graham's home in Texas, and with an
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: arrest warrant in hand, they knocked on a front door
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: and went unanswered. They were informed that several days earlier,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: her and her girlfriend had fled YEP. As they were
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: leaving the house, they went through a stop an intersection
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: and a stop sign, and lo and behold who drives
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: through the stopping the intersection? Gwen drives through the intersection,
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: and a puller over and arrest her.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: Is like the best kind of karma in the whole world, right, Like,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I am obsessed with that.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Kathy Wood was also arrested just a few hours later.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: In January nineteen eighty eight, the Michigan Health Department conducted
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: its own investigation, finding that Alpine Manner managed to have
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: actually acted appropriately and had no reason to suspect elder
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: abuse at the time of the murders.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: Bullshit.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: I I'm on both sides of the fence in this one.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know if there was specifically signs of elder
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: abuse per se. There may be some with bruising, but
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: I don't think it was frequent enough to consider abuse
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: because there was other potential attributing factors. Could they have
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: investigated better better, Yes, by far. Could they have done
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: things with their employees better, you fucking bet because they
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: were not doing good. But I'm not certain of abuse
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: specifically bad treatment. Yes, but I don't know. I'd have
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: to really get into it to really research and really
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: figure out where the line is for abuse.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: So you don't necessarily you wouldn't necessarily consider neglect abuse.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no care really well no, sorry, that's
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: not what I mean. I'm not saying. No, I don't
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: consider neglect abuse. Yes, I consider neglect abuse, but there
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: is a when is neglect abuse? Yeah, And I don't
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: know if the management would have been aware of the
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: neglect at the extent it was, right, So I don't
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: think they would have been aware to contribute that neglect
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: to be abuse, because it's like, oh, we pushed them
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: in a circle, and like the ones in a wheelchair.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, you pushed them in a circle for
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: an hour yesterday, as long as you don't do that again,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: and the employees promised, yeah, I won't do it again,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: but then they just keep doing it behind their backs,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I mean those I feel like those management,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: the upper management, are very guilty.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: Oh they're guilty, But I don't think that they had
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: any reason to suspect elder abuse. They were not running
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: the show properly by far. Yeah, but I think they
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: were so out of the loop they had no reason
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: to suspect elder abuse. That's what I mean.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: And their problem is that they were out of the
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: loop and they shouldn't have been.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: I think they were neglect on their own employees and
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: their own staff, their own facility, which in turn results
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: in neglected elder abuse.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: I think they just had the wolf pulled over their
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: eyes that much, is what I think.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, at one point in time, the place
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: did run really well and was great exactly, and so
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: then I mean eventually you would just probably be like, oh, yeah,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: that place is fine, like turn a blind eye.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: And if they had reason to investigate a death, maybe,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: but we had death certificates signed by doctor saying hey,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: heart attack, Oh that happens all the time.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because these people were just too busy and just
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: kind of assume.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm not saying management did right. Management fucking sucked. Okay. Yeah,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: I just don't know if I would say if I
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: think I might agree that they had no reason to
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: suspect elder abuse. Yeah, I could be wrong. I would
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: have to really go into it to really really say.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: But Anyways, that aside, prosecutors did face a challenge in
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: building the case against Gwen. There was only enough evidence
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: to charge her with the murder of Marguerite Chambers and
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: Edith Cook, the two women whose bodies were exhumed. The case,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: though heavily relied on Kathy's testimony, and without her cooperation,
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: it risked falling completely apart. So in an effort to
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: secure Kathy's cooperation, the prosecution offered her a plea deal.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: If Kathy pleaded guilty two second degree murder and one
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: account of conspiracy to commit murder, she would receive a
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: more lenient jail sentence, impossibly even potential parole. Hmm, Okay,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: So Kathy accepted the deal.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: Well, of course she did, of course she did. Yeah.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: So this led to additional charges against Gwen, who was
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: now charged with conspiracy to commit murder and the first
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: degree murder of five residents of the Alpine Manor. Gwen's
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: defense team was confidence that she would be acquitted. There
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: was no washcloth fibers or fingerprints linking her to the victims.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: There's basically just like the case was just too weak.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: Despite the absence of physical evidence like mementos, for example,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: that she might have kept right in the defense's argument
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: that Cathy had fabricated the story out of revenge. The
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: trial proceeded in September nineteenth Sorry September nineteen eighty nine,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: the trial began and the assistant prosecutor warned the jury
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: that this is a bizarre case committed by bizarre people.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: Cathy told the court room about how she stood lookout
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: while Gwen suffocated the victims of Alpine manner. She described
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: herself as a victim of abuse by Gwen, stating that
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: she had been tied to the ed with a gun
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: inserted her into her vagina, when in reality was the
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: other way around.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: The prosecution's final witness was Gwen's ex girlfriend, Heather, who
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: confirmed that the two weren't together anymore, but were at
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: the time when police were looking to arrest her. Heather
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: recounted that Gwen admitted to her that she did, in
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: fact commit murders the day the police came to question her. Okay,
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: it didn't take the jury long to come to a consensus.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: After only six hours of deliberation, Gwen Graham was found
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: guilty of first degree murder for five victims. And conspiracy
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: to commit murder. As a result, she was sentenced to
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: life in prison with no possibility of parole. The families
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: of the victims gathered and they were all relieved by
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: the verdict their loved ones could finally rest in peace.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: Ed Chambers, husband of Marguerite Chambers, expressed his desire for
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: the death penalty, and his daughter jan stated this quote,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: my mother can finally rest in peace. The scars will
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: always be there, but it helps knowing the truth. In
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: October nineteen eighty nine, Kathy Wood received her sentence twenty
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: to forty years in prison, with the possibility of parole
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: after sixteen years with good behavior. Many, however, believed Kathy's
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: involvement went far beyond a mere lookout. Former nursing staff
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: member described her as manipulative, as a manipulative liar who
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: deceived everyone involved in the case.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: A hairdresser named Maureen have Haverhill received a disturbing or
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: sorry recalled a disturbing encounter with Lucille van Derven, an
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: Alpine Manner resident in late nineteen eighty seven. So you
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: remember how you asked the question did anyone else? Was
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: anyone else killed? While she can well, Kathy confessed to
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: her husband in that year and a half time period,
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: right right, So Lucille claimed someone had tried to smother
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: her in her bed, but Marine dismissed this at the time,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: but later she realized the connection to the Alpine men
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: Manner murders and the fact that her client Lucille might
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: have been telling the truth.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: The problem with this, however, it couldn't have been Gwen
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: because she wasn't employed at the time. She had left
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: five weeks prior.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: Hmmm, I know the fact that Kathy is getting less
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: time than Gwen is kind of disturbing. Actually.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: Now, a former inmate claimed that Kathy would bragged about
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: the murders in prison, showing clippings from newspapers and admitting, quote,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: I did the murders. I really got that, bitch back.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: That's what Gwen gets for breaking up with me.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: Wow, right, stay should have themted someone in her like
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: stall or something.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: No kidding.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: I feel like she would be one of those people
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: that would just like divulge all the information bragging way
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: you betcha.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: I have a feeling she would have too. M h. Now,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: in September twenty eighteen, Kathy would applied for parole oh No,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: facing opposition for family members of victims who believe she
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: showcased no remorse, and concerns about her potential released were
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: heightened by fears that she might seek revenge on those
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: who testified against her in court as well. Despite appeals
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: from the victims' families and significant public outcry, Kathy Would,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: now fifty seven years old, was considered no longer a
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: threat to society.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: After serving thirty years in prison, she was released and
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: relocated to South Carolina to live with her sister. No,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: she's out.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: You're kidding me.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: She's out.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that's so disgusting.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: A retired detective who worked the case expressed his disagree
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: with Kathy's parole, stating quote, I believe that Kathy Would
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: was the mastermind. She was the one pulling the strings
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: on Gwen. For safety reasons, I wouldn't want my grandchildren
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: or elderly residents around her. She's a serial killer and
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: she could do it again, and most of them do.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: M M. Well yeah, that's what literally is going through
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: my head right now. She has she killed more people?
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: Well, has she killed more people? Let's touch on that
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: one more time.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: Are you serious? Ben?
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: With her parole came the release of court documents that
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: were previously withheld from public's view. With these documents, it
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: was revealed that Kathy and Gwen were under investigation for
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: a total of twelve deaths at Alpine Manor. However, a
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: lack of evidence prevented these cases from proceeding to trial.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: HM.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, wow, I want to touch one last thing on this.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: I did think, though, that you were going to tell
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: me she had done more sins than out that we
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: know of. Though I know that.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: As far as I'm aware, she's just under the radar,
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: just live in life in one way or another.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: But the one of the more disturbing things I want
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: to talk about this case that I find disturbing is
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: the reactions of many citizens in the public in regards
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: to the murders at the time. For example, before Kathy
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: was sentenced, her ex husband Ken wrote a letter to
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: the judge expressing this quote, Kathy is guilty of taking lives,
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: or at least not preventing Gwen from taking them, But
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: how much life did she really take? All the victims
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: weren't even living. They enjoyed nothing, experienced nothing, and we're
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: going to die.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: Whoa.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: This sentiment was shared by the majority of the public
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: at the time of the murders.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: Seriously, yeah really yep.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: The main point of view for Kathy and Gwen back
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: then was that they didn't deserve harsh sentences for their
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: actions because they targeted weak and sick who are gonna
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: die anyways, I don't give a shit. Yeah, that's to
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: take a fucking life, No.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: Because I mean they still a lot of them, did
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: still experience joy to some degree when they saw their
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: family or whatever. And then it's also affecting more than
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: just them, because it's like the families. That just doesn't
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: make any sense.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: Those moments when Ed came to visit Marguerite and she
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: seemed to go back to herself even for a moment.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: You can't tell me that's not living.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: No, that's oh gosh.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: They took that away from not only Marguerite, but also
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: from Ed and his daughter jan and every other family
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: member of every one of their victims.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because they affected so many more people than just
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: the victims. Yeah, holy heck, what a disturbing, fricking case.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: I know. So that is the Alpine Manner murders.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: Huh sorry, Yeah, I mean I remember right when we started,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: I did a nurse one. It was in Canada. I
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: can't remember the lady's name, but it's just.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: She was one who was injecting people.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like I think with like diabetic medicine or insulin.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: It was in some sort of insulin. Yeah.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: So it's just something about like people who have this
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: sort of authority and like have literally said they're going
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: to like help people. It just makes it kind of worse.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. Realized our acam is out. Oh oh
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: it would have lasted for a long time though, and
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: this camera is about to die, so we should end
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: this up.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: Should wrap this up.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening and watching. If
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: you're watching over on YouTube, we appreciate you being here.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: If you want to check with the links down below,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: they're all down below Patreon, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, all of it.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: Is there that we have two YouTube channels, one where
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: you can actually watch the podcast and one where you
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: can look at our tiny home life just kind of
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: logs chilling doing our thing.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so thank you for being here. Hopefully with the episode,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: and until next time, stay wicked.