Latest / The Kenny Report / The Kenny Report | 19 October

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The Kenny Report | 19 October · The Kenny Report

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: This is the Kenny Report.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me tonight. Paris burns, along with Marseille
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: and Lyon, but Brussels, Milan and Madrid are also seeing protests.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: What's going on? Why are Palestinian flags being flown and
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: what are the lessons for us? More than $ 40 billion
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: of your money tipped into the Snowy Hydro 2.0 shambles
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: for no extra electricity, when that money could have started
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: our nuclear revolution. The Weather Bureau under fire again for
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: fiddling with historical data, always in a way that makes
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: the here and now sound hotter. Labor still in a
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: mess and under fire over its tax hits on small business.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: All that plus Sophie Ellsworth in London and Caroline de
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Russo and Christy McSweeney on the panel. Thanks to Steve
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Price for filling in last Thursday. Let's get into it.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Protests have been happening in France for a number of weeks.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: What started off as a teacher's strike over complaints about
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: a lack of resources morphed into student protests in support,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: then into an embroidered embrace over the cost of living,
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: then a general anti-government, anti-establishment vibe. Remember, we showed you
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Greta Thunberg had turned up just last week. Any cause
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: will do. And over the weekend, the protests descended into
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: horrible violence, with up to half a million people involved
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: in cities across France, leaving Paris and its famous landmarks
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: looking like a war zone. Look, this is shocking and
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: unforgivable violence. People have been hurt, property destroyed. Remember, just
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: last month, the French president was lecturing the world, and
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Israel in particular, from his pulpit at the United Nations.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: We've seen the destruction of civilian infrastructure, human rights violations.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: It's a new era of barbaric acts.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: The spectacle, the spectacle, it is shameful.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, some spectacle. Now, it's Paris that's providing the spectacle
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: of violence, destruction, insurrection and, for some, resistance. You'd be
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: tempted to suggest Macron should get his own house in
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: order before he lectures Israel. Here he was last night
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: in an address to his nation.
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: Shops were broken into, public buildings... were attacked and in.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Some instances destroyed.
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: Hundreds of police staff were wounded. In seeing the images
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: that we have all seen, we can all think, what
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: are they thinking?
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: How can they do this to France?
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: Why would they set the town hall of Limoges alight?
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: Why would they attack the residency of the prefect in Bordeaux?
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Why would they do this?
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Why would the French do this to France? Well, the
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: answer is right there in the question, isn't it? Those
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: loyal to France and those who care about their compatriots
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: wouldn't do this. Only those loyal to other concepts, other aims,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: would do this. It began, sure enough, with some reasonable grievances,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: but pretty soon it's clear the protest movement was used
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: by the socialists, the environmentalists, the communists, maybe even spurred
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: on by the fascists. Then, of course, there were the anarchists,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: and it seems, too, they've been joined by many Islamists.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: A synagogue was vandalised in Paris, and here and there,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: among the crowds, there were Palestinian flags, seemingly more common
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: than French flags or communist flags. Yep, there it was,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: flying proudly and perhaps menacingly from world-famous French monuments, the
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: flag of a non-existent nation that France has championed.
• 4:40
  Speaker 6: The government should be deploying the military to take back
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: control of French cities because these are riots on a
• 4:47
  Speaker 6: massive scale and should not be tolerated.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Excuse me, did you see, there was a flag that
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: went by and it wasn't the flag of France.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, what is going on down there? This is
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: highly disturbing. Already in the UK, Nigel Farage is warning
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: this is their future under mass immigration. And the warning
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: is being made here in Australia too. Pauline Hanson has
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: taken to social media saying Australia can't repeat the mass
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: migration tearing apart Europe. She said countries like France, Germany,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Belgium and the UK are suffering from mass migration. And
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: unless Australia stops importing people who reject our democracy, way
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: of life and the values of Western civilisation... these riots
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: will come to our cities. Her One Nation colleague chipped
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: in too.
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: What's happening in France is a clarion call for Australia
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: to have social harmony, a clarion call that you cannot
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: have social experimentation with your culture.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: It doesn't work. But as ever, there are many in
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: this country who choose to block their ears and avert
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: their eyes. At the ABC, they reckon they know what
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: the protests in France are all about.
• 6:11
  Speaker 7: Hundreds of thousands have joined demonstrations demanding better school facilities,
• 6:16
  Speaker 7: more teachers and a fairer distribution of wealth.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's OK then, eh? What a relief. Just a
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: bit of a cost-of-living squeeze. Seems a pretty ugly way
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: to complain about the price of petrol. Still, even the
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: ABC couldn't ignore how the protests have spread.
• 6:35
  Speaker 7: The protests haven't been limited to France, though. Belgium, Italy,
• 6:39
  Speaker 7: Portugal and Albania have also been ablaze with violent demonstrations.
• 6:46
  Speaker 7: Whilst they aren't coordinated, they do have similar grievances around
• 6:51
  Speaker 7: cost of living and public sector cuts.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Presumably, in these countries, they're not complaining about the cost
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: of living in France or education funding in France or
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: public sector cuts in France. Either they are facing exactly
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: the same issues in those countries and choose to react
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: in exactly the same way, or there are similar activist
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: groups adopting exactly the same destructive tactics. All those countries
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: also have long been dealing with high levels of mass migration.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Under the European Union, the Europeans thought they could pretend
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: that borders didn't matter. But now people move freely into
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: their countries and protests move freely across the borders. Only
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: a foolish government in any Western country, including our own,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: would not watch this crisis carefully and try to learn
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: some pertinent lessons. And nor can any country function successfully
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: unless the people within them unite around core values and expect,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: even demand, that all newcomers are also loyal to those
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: national principles. I've been on the case of the Snowy
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Hydro 2.0 project since it was first announced nine years
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: ago by the net zero-obsessed Coalition Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull.
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: I am a nation-building Prime Minister, believe me, and this
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: is a nation-building project.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: These are big dreams in these mountains.
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: Real courage, a belief in the future, a confidence in Australia.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: The Marlborough man, hey? But we're a politician with a
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: grand plan. What a shocker. Turnbull was desperate for votes,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: desperate to appear green... So we came up with this
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: grand plan that was supposed to be operational by 2021,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: mind you, at a cost of $ 2 billion. Well, as
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I suggested earlier this year, based on interviews with experts,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: delays and cost blowouts were likely to top $ 40 billion
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: once you factored in transmission lines. And today, The Australian
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: reports that a new cost estimate is in the hands
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: of the Climate and Energy Minister, Chris Bowen, and it
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: will confirm that cost 20 times the original promise. Bowen
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: isn't talking to us, but here's what he said last
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: time he was asked.
• 9:34
  Speaker 8: It's an important nation-building project. it's substantially now, you know,
• 9:39
  Speaker 8: well over 50% complete. And yes, there is a cost reassessment.
• 9:46
  Speaker 8: And I will say more about that, Minister Gallagher and I,
• 9:48
  Speaker 8: when it's been completed.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: We can't wait to hear. Now, this was a coalition idea.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: And for that, the coalition should wear a lot of odium.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: But Labor has doubled down on it, pumped more of
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: your money into it, made excuses for it and remained
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: committed to this ultra-expensive stored hydro project, a dam and
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: turbine set-up that doesn't add to the overall generating capacity
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: of the grid, just stores electricity for when we need it.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: The project is still beset by tunnelling problems with claims
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: it'll be finished in the next couple of years. But
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: who knows? It looks like being at least eight years overdue,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: maybe more. So let me make one simple point, but
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: important point about this project. Remember, it'll end up costing
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: at least $ 40 billion and at best will be operational
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: 11 or 12 years after it started. And even then,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: It only provides energy storage. This is absolutely scandalous and
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: insane when you consider Labor's arguments for not backing nuclear energy.
• 11:01
  Speaker 8: We know that nuclear is too expensive, too slow to
• 11:04
  Speaker 8: build and too risky for energy reliability.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Their only arguments against nuclear energy are that it costs
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: too much and takes too long. So this is my point.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: about Snowy Hydro 2.0. When you look at nuclear energy
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: installations around the world, there is no doubt that if
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: this country spent $ 40 billion on nuclear, it could easily
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: build two or three major nuclear power stations over 10
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: or 12 years. They would provide five or six gigawatts
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: of reliable, affordable, additional electricity, emissions-free, for at least the
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: next 75 years. But instead of forward thinking, rational, technologically
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: sound plans to secure this country with nuclear power, we're
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: wasting just as much money and time on Malcolm Turnbull's
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: big hydro dream. I tell you, this country is engaged
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: in historic self-harm on many fronts. Let's go to Michael McCormack,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: the former Deputy Prime Minister, now Shadow Minister for Veterans Affairs,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: joins us from Wagga Wagga. Thanks for joining us, Michael.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Just quickly, this must be the biggest embarrassment of your
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: political career, to have been involved in a government that
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: started Snowy Hydro 2.0. Surely it's time just to cut
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: the project, cut our losses and scrap it.
• 12:45
  Speaker 9: Well, I don't believe in leaving white elephants and I
• 12:47
  Speaker 9: take your point about building nuclear power stations. You are
• 12:50
  Speaker 9: totally right what you said in your editorial, Chris. But indeed,
• 12:55
  Speaker 9: given the fact that we are building 27 kilometres of tunnels,
• 12:59
  Speaker 9: we're pumping hydro from the Talbingo Reservoir, Tantangara, that's the
• 13:08
  Speaker 9: top storage. It is a project that has created hundreds
• 13:13
  Speaker 9: upon hundreds of jobs. Yes, I appreciate there is a
• 13:16
  Speaker 9: huge cost blowout. That's very, very unfortunate. But like all
• 13:22
  Speaker 9: with these projects, you can't leave it now, the fact
• 13:25
  Speaker 9: that it's sort of half built. That would be a
• 13:28
  Speaker 9: complete white elephant. It's bad enough that the federal Labor
• 13:31
  Speaker 9: government is going to leave the Melbourne to Brisbane inland
• 13:36
  Speaker 9: rail half complete and stop it at parks. So we
• 13:39
  Speaker 9: need to stay the course. But you're right what you
• 13:42
  Speaker 9: say about nuclear.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Should have spent the money on that. Now, tell me,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: when you look at Paris and more widely across Europe,
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: do you have fears for Australia and our mass migration?
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: And do you believe it's linked to Muslim migration and
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: the Palestinian issue?
• 14:02
  Speaker 9: Well, it's certainly linked to radical Islam. What we're seeing
• 14:05
  Speaker 9: in France is just totally abominable. A thousand police injured.
• 14:10
  Speaker 9: That is just disgraceful. And historic buildings being levelled. And
• 14:16
  Speaker 9: then you've got here in Australia, we've got this government
• 14:20
  Speaker 9: spending $ 171.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: 3 million on a.
• 14:22
  Speaker 9: Supporting multicultural communities program at which the only electorates really
• 14:29
  Speaker 9: asked to apply are those would you believe, Labor electorates.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: That's a bit of a stretch, but it's pretty accurate.
• 14:38
  Speaker 9: That's why the Coalition has announced the toughest crackdown on migration.
• 14:44
  Speaker 9: We need migrants for our regional areas. There are jobs
• 14:47
  Speaker 9: aplenty out here. They underpin our aged care system and
• 14:51
  Speaker 9: so many others besides. But this mass migration has been
• 14:55
  Speaker 9: allowed to continue for too long in this country.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Certainly, Labor has it on steroids.
• 15:02
  Speaker 9: And when you see, just prior to the last election,
• 15:06
  Speaker 9: citizenship ceremonies involving thousands upon thousands of people in Western Sydney,
• 15:12
  Speaker 9: and the local member, Di Lee, wasn't even invited, you
• 15:15
  Speaker 9: know something's seriously wrong, Chris.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a worry and we won't shy away
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: from that debate here. I want to get back to
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: the economy and the budget fallout and Labor's credit card
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: surcharge ban and the fact that the Australian Tax Office
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: then decided it wouldn't take credit card payments. It was
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: revealed on the weekend that the government actually knew about
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: this decision three months ago and didn't edit it off.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Here's the Assistant Treasurer, Dan Molino.
• 15:43
  Speaker 10: Accepting credit card payments going on indefinitely would have very
• 15:48
  Speaker 10: serious fiscal ramifications for the budget. In July, the government
• 15:54
  Speaker 10: became aware that the ATO was looking at options and
• 15:57
  Speaker 10: that at that point their preference was to not accept
• 16:02
  Speaker 10: credit cards. The indication we gave to the ATO was
• 16:04
  Speaker 10: that they should continue to engage with the credit card
• 16:07
  Speaker 10: companies and that there should be a transition period.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: This is just a shambles. It shows they just don't
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: understand how small business operates and how they deal with
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: their cash flow issues.
• 16:21
  Speaker 9: Well, I've never seen a business they wouldn't like to
• 16:23
  Speaker 9: run a picket line out the front of, I have
• 16:25
  Speaker 9: to say, and the definition of a small business was
• 16:27
  Speaker 9: probably a medium to large business when we were in office.
• 16:30
  Speaker 9: But Daniel Molino, I think he's probably pretty accurate there,
• 16:34
  Speaker 9: but that goes totally against what Anne Alley, the actual
• 16:36
  Speaker 9: small business minister, was saying in question time in Parliament
• 16:40
  Speaker 9: last week. So something's not lining up there, but Labor
• 16:44
  Speaker 9: doesn't like small business because they.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Can't unionise it. That's the problem, Chris.
• 16:48
  Speaker 9: They can't get their union clause in on it, and
• 16:51
  Speaker 9: hence why they're so against it. The attack on small
• 16:54
  Speaker 9: business has to stop. It underpins the economy. It provides
• 16:58
  Speaker 9: so many jobs and so much of our economic activity
• 17:04
  Speaker 9: in Australia. It's a disgrace what they're doing with this
• 17:07
  Speaker 9: attack on small business.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: They should keep the credit card payments permanently, shouldn't they,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: rather than just extend for a year? Because many small
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: businesses can get rid of a tax bill that way
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: without incurring interest costs if they know they've got incoming receipts,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: they know they can repay their credit card before they
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: face any charges on it.
• 17:27
  Speaker 9: I couldn't agree with you more. The trouble is what
• 17:30
  Speaker 9: Labor's going to do is they're going to kick it
• 17:31
  Speaker 9: into the long grass.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: It'll be a few months out from the election and
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: they'll see nothing to see here. This is what Labor
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: typically does. They're so poor on policy.
• 17:40
  Speaker 9: It's like this situation with the defence asset fire sale.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just don't understand why they're doing it, Chris.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Well, that's where I was going next. That's where I
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: was going next. So let's get on to that finish
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: on this topic. Plans revealed on the weekend, too, that
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: the government is moving to fast-track the evacuation, if you like,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: the moving of defence personnel... from the Victoria barracks in Sydney.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: They want to get this done and dusted quickly before
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: the momentum builds against it, I suppose. I think most
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Australians would be against this historic site being lost, wouldn't they?
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Most Australians are aghast.
• 18:16
  Speaker 9: There's a rally at the Victoria Barracks this Sunday at
• 18:19
  Speaker 9: 1 o'clock. Jess Collins is leading it. Get along there
• 18:22
  Speaker 9: and voice your disgust. Anybody in uniform, they can't speak out,
• 18:25
  Speaker 9: but they are horrified by what's happening. That's cadets, that's reservists,
• 18:31
  Speaker 9: and that's our full-time professional soldiers, aviators, and those who
• 18:36
  Speaker 9: ably service in the Navy. They are aghast at what's happening,
• 18:40
  Speaker 9: not just at Victoria Barracks, but Lancer as well. at
• 18:43
  Speaker 9: HMAS Penguin and the other 64 sites that have been
• 18:47
  Speaker 9: slated for a sell-off to prop up Jim Chalmers' bodgy
• 18:53
  Speaker 9: bottom line. That's a disgraceful, disgraceful attack on our heritage,
• 18:59
  Speaker 9: on our history, but also on our future, Chris, because
• 19:02
  Speaker 9: we may well need these barracks in future if things
• 19:08
  Speaker 9: continue the way they are.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Michael. I appreciate it.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Good on you, Chris.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Michael McCormack there joining us live from Wagga. I want
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: to get back to that gold mine expansion slightly north
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: of there. It was approved and then banned by a
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: last-minute Indigenous heritage claim, then unbanned by a court decision
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: last week, overturning the ban that was imposed by Labor's
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: then Environment Minister, Tanya Plibersek, on Indigenous heritage grounds. So,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: can the $ 1. 3 billion gold mine expansion near Orange in
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: New South Wales go ahead now? And what does all
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: this mean now? for the mining industry more broadly. Let's
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: bring in the Association of Mining and Exploration Companies CEO,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Warren Pearce, who joins us from Perth. Thanks for joining us, Warren.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: First up, this Blaney gold mine between Bathurst and Orange,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: south of Orange, can it now go ahead or must
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: it now worry that the new Environment Minister has to
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: reassess everything before giving that final stamp of approval?
• 20:10
  Speaker 11: Well, thanks, Chris. Look, it does need to wait for
• 20:12
  Speaker 11: the new Environment Minister, Murray Watt, to make a decision
• 20:15
  Speaker 11: around the Section 10 objection. What's happened with the Federal
• 20:18
  Speaker 11: Court process is they've looked at the process the previous
• 20:22
  Speaker 11: Environment Minister, Tanya Plibersek, went through. They found there were
• 20:24
  Speaker 11: procedural fairness failings and consequently invalidated the decision. So ultimately,
• 20:30
  Speaker 11: for the mine to go ahead, a new decision has
• 20:32
  Speaker 11: to be made by the new Environment Minister and that
• 20:34
  Speaker 11: could take some considerable time.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: This must horrify mining companies and those investing in them
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: because this is a mine that went through all the
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: approval processes, including Indigenous heritage assessments, and was approved before
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: another Indigenous claim came out of the blue from another
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: group and appealed to the sensibilities, apparently in an incorrect
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: way under the law, of the then Minister Tanya Plibersek.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, when is an approval not an approval?
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the problem.
• 21:08
  Speaker 11: And I can't tell you how many international companies or
• 21:11
  Speaker 11: international investors have asked us the question at the Association,
• 21:15
  Speaker 11: what does this mean for the certainty of our investment?
• 21:17
  Speaker 11: If a project can go through five or seven years
• 21:20
  Speaker 11: of assessment, meet all the requirements, go through the process
• 21:23
  Speaker 11: the correct way with traditional owners to understand cultural heritage
• 21:27
  Speaker 11: needs and what has to be done, reach agreement and
• 21:29
  Speaker 11: move forward, how can this be unpicked at the last
• 21:32
  Speaker 11: minute with an objection that's not been considered in any
• 21:36
  Speaker 11: part of that process previously? So we need a situation
• 21:39
  Speaker 11: where Australian law ensures that once those assessments are undertaken,
• 21:45
  Speaker 11: once those approvals are given, it can't be undermined at
• 21:48
  Speaker 11: the last minute by a competing claim. And that's what
• 21:51
  Speaker 11: we need new legislation here in Australia to deal with.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: And sensible Aboriginal leaders, Indigenous leaders we've had on this program,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: agree that needs to happen. They want the local and
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: land councils to be recognised for their authority, and if
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: they give the OK to a project or object, then
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: they're the ones who should be listened to. Because this
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: isn't the first case, is it? I think the Santos
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: gas project, the Barossa field off the Northern Territory, was
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: held up and ended up litigating similar claims.
• 22:20
  Speaker 11: And that's correct. And look, from an industry point of view,
• 22:23
  Speaker 11: what we need is to know who to talk to.
• 22:26
  Speaker 11: And this is particularly important for judicial owners and what
• 22:28
  Speaker 11: they will tell industry and tell everybody is that they
• 22:33
  Speaker 11: are the ones who have the right to speak for
• 22:34
  Speaker 11: country and they don't like and certainly don't respect other
• 22:38
  Speaker 11: people trying to speak for their country on their behalf.
• 22:40
  Speaker 11: And so that's why it's so important to identify who
• 22:42
  Speaker 11: we need to talk to in the first instance and
• 22:44
  Speaker 11: indeed the native title process and a wide scale of
• 22:48
  Speaker 11: determinations has helped make that clear and set up a
• 22:51
  Speaker 11: range of frameworks, prescribed body corporates, land councils, land corporations
• 22:56
  Speaker 11: that fulfil that representative role on behalf of traditional owners,
• 23:00
  Speaker 11: and that's who we engage with. That should be the
• 23:02
  Speaker 11: end of the process. Once we go through that process
• 23:05
  Speaker 11: and reach agreement, win their support or their endorsement for
• 23:09
  Speaker 11: things to move forward and come to agreement, that should
• 23:12
  Speaker 11: be all the federal or state governments need to be
• 23:14
  Speaker 11: able to give a tick to the fact that cultural
• 23:16
  Speaker 11: heritage matters are being appropriately dealt with because the traditional
• 23:19
  Speaker 11: owners who are responsible for it say so.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: But the thing that makes all this madness even worse,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: insanely worse, is that many of these actions, including this
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: one with the Blaney gold mine, are led by the
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Environmental Defender's Office, which is taxpayer funded. So we have taxpayers'
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: funds being used for legal challenges against decisions that have
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: been taken on behalf of taxpayers by governments.
• 23:45
  Speaker 11: Yeah, that's right. And what you've seen is the environmental
• 23:48
  Speaker 11: movement particularly weaponise cultural heritage for environmental goals.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Now, that's not right.
• 23:55
  Speaker 11: Aboriginal people deserve to be treated with respect and, indeed,
• 23:58
  Speaker 11: cultural heritage and native title are important components that we
• 24:02
  Speaker 11: make very strong consideration to as proponents move forward in
• 24:06
  Speaker 11: their planning and their negotiations. Now, some of those environmental
• 24:10
  Speaker 11: activists have been providing false information to those processes. What
• 24:13
  Speaker 11: came out of the Santos Project project in the Northern
• 24:16
  Speaker 11: Territory was essentially that cultural heritage information was being fabricated
• 24:21
  Speaker 11: by university academics to be used in legal processes. That
• 24:24
  Speaker 11: was undone by the court. Now, we can't have a
• 24:27
  Speaker 11: situation where people are manipulating cultural heritage. It's a real
• 24:32
  Speaker 11: and very important thing. We need to take it seriously,
• 24:35
  Speaker 11: but people won't take it seriously if they fear it's
• 24:37
  Speaker 11: being manipulated or used to leverage an outcome either for
• 24:41
  Speaker 11: the environment or for any other purpose. And that's just unacceptable.
• 24:44
  Speaker 11: And I think most Australians would be very uncomfortable finding
• 24:47
  Speaker 11: that their tax dollars would be being used for those purposes.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well said, Warren. Thanks for joining us. Warren Pearce
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: there on behalf of the mining and exploration companies. As
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: a late, great Nurringery woman, Beryl Crepinieri said to me
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: once over the Highmarsh Island secret women's business, reconciliation starts
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: with the truth. Let's get the truth on these matters first.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: not have people making up claims at the last moment.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Let's take a break. On the other side, the Weather
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Bureau under fire again for fiddling with historical data. And
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: it always seems to support their climate alarmist case. The
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Bureau of Meteorology has been caught out again manipulating historical
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: temperature data... Who could have guessed it? Once more, surprise, surprise,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: the fiddles always seem to boost its alarmist line on
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: global warming. A ripping report in The Weekend Australian reveals
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: that a forensic audit has turned up thousands of pieces
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: of historical temperature records that have been cut and pasted
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: from one year to another, sometimes 40 years apart. And
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: dating back goes back as far as the 19th century.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Let's bring in the Australian's Environment Editor and the author
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: of the story, Graeme Lloyd. Graeme, good to talk to you.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: This is extraordinary because this relates to figures that were
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: hand-recorded in the archives going back. So it's somehow in
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: the process of taking those hand-recorded details and putting them
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: into the digital system, into a computer effectively, they've been fiddled.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Has the Bureau had any explanation for this so far?
• 26:31
  Speaker 12: Well, they haven't had an explanation at all, Chris. They've admitted, though,
• 26:37
  Speaker 12: that there's a problem. And why this is a particular
• 26:40
  Speaker 12: problem is because this is the data set that BOM
• 26:43
  Speaker 12: has always maintained is the raw data. It hasn't been changed.
• 26:47
  Speaker 12: It's a presentation of what was written down in the
• 26:49
  Speaker 12: logbooks all through time. And if the public doesn't like
• 26:54
  Speaker 12: its homogenisation or the way other.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Figures are represented, it can always go to the raw figures.
• 27:00
  Speaker 12: Now, a fellow down in Tasmania has run this through
• 27:04
  Speaker 12: a sophisticated audit computer program and found that this is
• 27:10
  Speaker 12: a highly compromised data set. There's a lot of anomalies
• 27:15
  Speaker 12: going back hundreds of years, right up to the present day,
• 27:18
  Speaker 12: that simply can't be explained. And this is something that
• 27:22
  Speaker 12: needs to be taken account.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: It sure does. I'll just share with everybody your colleague
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Johannes Link's cartoon interpretation of this today in the paper.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: He's got the bomb historical climate records department hard at
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: work and a bloke asking for more Tippex, please. But
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: I suppose a lot of people younger than us might
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: not know what Tippex is. But I want to go
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: back to this point about how important the raw data is,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: because as we know and as we've discussed on this
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: program many times, they have this homogenisation process where the
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Bureau and their scientists decide that some of that old
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: data needs to be revised upwards or downwards because they
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: think the thermometers weren't accurate or the placement of the
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: weather station wasn't accurate. But if you want to challenge that,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: you have to be able to go back to that
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: raw data. For instance... I recall a few years ago
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: where the bomb declared that a summer maximum in Adelaide
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: was the highest ever temperature reported in an Australian capital.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: But the raw data from the 1930s showed it had
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: been nearly two degrees hotter on a particular day, but
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: it had been homogenised downwards since then. So we need
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: that data if we're ever going to continue to check
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: the science.
• 28:40
  Speaker 12: And I think the point's been made today, Chris, that
• 28:42
  Speaker 12: in no other branch of science would this be acceptable.
• 28:46
  Speaker 12: If you look at medicine and other things, very strict
• 28:50
  Speaker 12: rules that the primary data has to be preserved and
• 28:54
  Speaker 12: publicly available so people can repeat that. experiments. So that
• 28:59
  Speaker 12: should extend both to the raw data and to the
• 29:02
  Speaker 12: homogenised data. But in this case, it's not a case of, oh, well,
• 29:06
  Speaker 12: this temperature may have been written down incorrectly or.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: The site has moved.
• 29:10
  Speaker 12: Whole blocks of temperature have been copied and pasted into
• 29:14
  Speaker 12: a completely different timeframe. I have no explanation as to
• 29:19
  Speaker 12: why that would be the case, but I'm really looking
• 29:22
  Speaker 12: forward to hear what it is.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: But isn't it the case, though, that it just so
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: happens that the way these numbers have been accidentally or
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: deliberately manoeuvred tends to support the bombs case of a
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: warming climate?
• 29:37
  Speaker 12: Well, there's certainly evidence that in one particular station all
• 29:41
  Speaker 12: the adjustments have been up. In terms of what impact
• 29:46
  Speaker 12: these changes would have had on the temperature trend overall,
• 29:49
  Speaker 12: it's really impossible to tell until you know what the
• 29:52
  Speaker 12: accurate figures are and what are the ones that have
• 29:55
  Speaker 12: been thrown away.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: So that's the work that needs to be done.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Staggering stuff. Thanks for joining us, Graeme. I appreciate it.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Great reporting there from Graeme Lloyd in The Australian. This
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: stuff is fundamental. Now, a lot of people have different
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: views on climate change, but in the end, the one
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: thing surely we all agree on is it has to
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: come down to the science. We need the accurate numbers
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: and clear, objective science. And if we can't trust the
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Weather Bureau on historical temperature records, what hope have we
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: got of having a purely scientific approach to this crucial issue?
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: We're going to take a break again. On the other side,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about this mess that Labor's in over its
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: tax hits on small business. Let's get into the small
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: business issue, but I want to start off with a
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: classic example of how the media doesn't get it. They
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: don't get the economy, small business or the concerns of
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: people outside the Canberra bubble, especially the left-wing media, of course.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Small business, as you know, is being hit hard with taxes...
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Soaring power prices, slow economic growth and the ridiculous decision
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: by the Albanese Labor government to ban credit card surcharges.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: And remember, the Australian Tax Office compounded that by declaring
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: it wouldn't accept credit card payments. Well, it turns out
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: the government knew about that decision three months ago, as
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: we just discussed, and failed to stop it. But listen
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: to an ABC reporter's take on this yesterday.
• 31:26
  Speaker 13: The fallout from this credit card ban has been consuming
• 31:29
  Speaker 13: the government's agenda for weeks. The fact that ministers knew
• 31:33
  Speaker 13: it was coming for months raises an obvious question. How
• 31:36
  Speaker 13: did no one see this backlash coming?
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. It's not the political backlash they should
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: have worried about. It's the economic hit. Why do the
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: media and the politicians, I suppose, too many of them,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: always focus on the politicking? Why don't they think about
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the real world, the economy and the impact on real people?
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: That's what Labor should have thought of and that's what
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: the media would do well to focus on too. Let's
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: go again to small business representative Belinda Russo from the
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Stop the Ambition Tax. She joined us here last week.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Good to talk to you again, Belinda. When we met
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: last week, you were trying to get meetings with the Coalition,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: One Nation and the government. How successful have you been?
• 32:24
  Speaker 14: Well, very successful, to be honest. I've got hats off
• 32:28
  Speaker 14: to them. So the Liberal Party reached out on my
• 32:30
  Speaker 14: social media post saying, both the Leader and the Deputy
• 32:34
  Speaker 14: Leader said they're in. One Nation have agreed and confirmed
• 32:37
  Speaker 14: to a meeting along with the Nationals. I'm hitting a
• 32:40
  Speaker 14: brick wall with the federal government.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: No answer from Labor?
• 32:43
  Speaker 14: No, put it this way. I literally rang Jim Chalmers'
• 32:47
  Speaker 14: electorate office, then I rang the Treasury office and I
• 32:50
  Speaker 14: followed it up with an email and I rang them
• 32:52
  Speaker 14: today again. I've pled my case. I explained that the
• 32:55
  Speaker 14: others want to meet and nothing happened. They don't want
• 32:58
  Speaker 14: to have a bar of it. It's not going to
• 33:00
  Speaker 14: be good optics for them, put it that way.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they've got to meet you. I mean, you're running
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: that ad. People will be seeing it on their social media.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Here's a reminder.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Rent is up. Power is up.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: Insurance, wages, stock, all up.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: We're working longer hours for less.
• 33:14
  Speaker 13: And now Canberra's been card surcharges.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: But the bank fees didn't go anywhere.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: It's just one more cost we have to wear.
• 33:21
  Speaker 13: We can't take another one.
• 33:22
  Speaker 8: Stop being surcharged on running a small business.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now, if that's running out there and you're out
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: here talking in the media and they don't actually sit
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: down and meet with you, it looks like they're just
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: turning their backs on small business. It does.
• 33:36
  Speaker 14: And the thing is, I've said time and time again...
• 33:38
  Speaker 14: that I don't think they hate small business, I think
• 33:40
  Speaker 14: they don't understand us, but how do you not feel
• 33:43
  Speaker 14: that they don't like you or they feel like they're
• 33:46
  Speaker 14: just ignoring you when they just don't even answer my calls?
• 33:50
  Speaker 14: They've got to answer to that.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Now, the revelation on the weekend, though, that the government
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: knew about this surcharge ban and the tax office response
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: to it three months ago, it confirms your point they
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: don't understand small business because they should have understood straight
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: away that this would be a problem for small business.
• 34:07
  Speaker 14: Honestly, that was shocking to find that out. So they
• 34:10
  Speaker 14: had three options, they said. They could have actually just
• 34:13
  Speaker 14: wore it, said they had that option. They could have
• 34:16
  Speaker 14: actually asked for a lower rate from the banks, like
• 34:18
  Speaker 14: the big supermarkets do. Or they could have given more
• 34:22
  Speaker 14: notice and actually consulted with small business. Either of those options,
• 34:25
  Speaker 14: they just went with the one option of not actually
• 34:28
  Speaker 14: telling anyone, like a thief in the night the night before,
• 34:31
  Speaker 14: and small business was sat there, just went, what's going on?
• 34:34
  Speaker 14: And they did turn around, gave that Band-Aid extension. Why
• 34:37
  Speaker 14: did they not do that before?
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Now, you're determined to continue on beyond this issue. You've
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: got a stay of execution, I suppose, on this issue
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: to the end of the financial year. But you want
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: that credit card payment ability forever, don't you?
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 34:50
  Speaker 14: They have the bargaining power. They can lower that rate.
• 34:53
  Speaker 14: They've got the money and the room in their budget.
• 34:55
  Speaker 14: We know how much the ATO is spending on all
• 34:57
  Speaker 14: of their lavish offices. They have the money. They can
• 35:00
  Speaker 14: actually accommodate that.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: You would have thought so. Right, thanks for dropping in
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: to see us again, Belinda. I appreciate it. Keep us posted. Now,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: I want to return to the issues in Europe and
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: those riots that swept through France and have now spread
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: to Italy and elsewhere. Earlier in the show, we spoke
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: about Pauline Hanson's warning that mass migration would lead to
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: scenes like this being repeated in Australia. In Britain, Reform
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: UK leader Nigel Farage has delivered a similar message, posting
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: overnight that if we don't wake up, the carnage in
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: France is our future. We need to return to law...
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: order and borders. Joining me from London is News24 contributor
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Sophie Ellsworth. Thanks for joining us again, Sophie. Tell us,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: just across the channel there, all this unfolding, it must
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: be particularly alarming for the UK, which has faced similar
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: issues over mass migration, that's for sure.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Great to be with you, Chris.
• 35:58
  Speaker 15: Look, it is incredibly alarming and as you can imagine,
• 36:01
  Speaker 15: it's dominating headlines here as it is around the world
• 36:04
  Speaker 15: and concerns of what's going on across France could be
• 36:08
  Speaker 15: replicated here in the UK. Now, depending on which media
• 36:13
  Speaker 15: outlet that you are reading or absorbing. Some outlets are saying,
• 36:18
  Speaker 15: you know, it's school protests and university protests, and others
• 36:22
  Speaker 15: are saying that it's been infiltrated by rioters and black-clad
• 36:26
  Speaker 15: thugs across the country. Now, we've seen buildings set alight,
• 36:31
  Speaker 15: we've seen many businesses ransacked, horrific scenes across Paris, and
• 36:37
  Speaker 15: we have seen French President Emmanuel Macron call for calm
• 36:42
  Speaker 15: But we know the elections are coming up in France
• 36:44
  Speaker 15: in about six months' time, Chris. So this is a very,
• 36:48
  Speaker 15: very testing time for the French president. And we've also
• 36:51
  Speaker 15: seen Le Pen come out saying that, you know, something
• 36:56
  Speaker 15: must be done. But basically, we've got a president who
• 36:58
  Speaker 15: is in office, who is tired, and he needs to
• 37:02
  Speaker 15: be booted out, which we know he will when his
• 37:04
  Speaker 15: time comes up in six months' time.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Look, we know France has had some violent protests in
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: the past. It's not as unusual in France, I suppose,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: as it is in many other countries. But this is
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: a new level and it's widespread and it's incredibly violent
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: and it's spread into other countries as well. It is
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: deeply worrying. As you say, there's a lot of debate
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: about what's involved in this. But it's very clear that
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: there was an initial protest movement that had legitimate grievances,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: whether you agree or disagree, on education funding. But it's
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: grown from that. And some of the violence is obviously opportunistic.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: But there are other elements involved. There are anarchists and communists.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: And we see the Palestinian flag flown frequently in a
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: country where there has been a large level of Muslim
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: migration and where there's been a lot of activity from
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Islamists and Islamist extremists.
• 38:04
  Speaker 15: We do indeed, Chris, and that's been a real bone
• 38:07
  Speaker 15: of contention in this whole furor that has engulfed France
• 38:12
  Speaker 15: and also concerns about the heavy reliance of welfare on
• 38:17
  Speaker 15: the public purse in France and that their economy is...
• 38:21
  Speaker 15: in dire straits. So French President Emmanuel Macron has said
• 38:26
  Speaker 15: that he may implement curfews. He's trying to stop these
• 38:30
  Speaker 15: protests across the country. There's an emergency cabinet meeting in
• 38:34
  Speaker 15: France today with ministers in the French government. But this
• 38:39
  Speaker 15: is a series of weeks really of this unrest that
• 38:42
  Speaker 15: we've seen across the country and it doesn't seem to
• 38:45
  Speaker 15: be coming to an end just yet.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Just shocking. There have been protests in Milan and in
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Madrid and in Portugal and in Belgium. Let's hope they
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: don't start up in the UK as well. Sophie, before
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: we let you go, though, give us an update on
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Harry and Meghan. They've gone out and had a bit
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: of a public appearance, I believe.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: They have indeed.
• 39:07
  Speaker 15: Look, last week they made their first public appearance together
• 39:13
  Speaker 15: since Queen Elizabeth's funeral. They've been out in public and
• 39:17
  Speaker 15: they were in Nottingham in the UK. They were seen
• 39:20
  Speaker 15: doing a walkabout. Look, these are the non-working royals that
• 39:24
  Speaker 15: are pretending to be working royals. No one seems to
• 39:28
  Speaker 15: figure out whether they are royals. working or non-working. But
• 39:32
  Speaker 15: Meghan Markle and Prince Harry are desperate to redeem themselves
• 39:35
  Speaker 15: with the British public. But talking to punters here on
• 39:38
  Speaker 15: the ground across the UK, Chris, it seems almost an
• 39:41
  Speaker 15: impossible feat to win back the British public. The damage
• 39:45
  Speaker 15: is done. They've caused too much harm to the royal family.
• 39:48
  Speaker 15: too much harm to their reputations, and I don't think
• 39:51
  Speaker 15: Brits will welcome them back.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: I tell you what, I don't know what they were
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: doing there, but if they're not working royals, that looks
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: very much like a royal appearance. You know, the crowd
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: cordoned off and them walking along and accepting the cheers
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: and waving to people. This must be just another step
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: on their global privacy tour.
• 40:12
  Speaker 15: Well, that's the thing, Chris. They're constantly complaining about privacy concerns,
• 40:16
  Speaker 15: security concerns. Meghan Markle really, though, is contradictory because she
• 40:22
  Speaker 15: posts so much of their life since they've moved back
• 40:25
  Speaker 15: to the UK on social media, yet they're saying they're
• 40:28
  Speaker 15: concerned about their security, but they're telling people what they're
• 40:32
  Speaker 15: up to and what they're doing. I don't think she
• 40:36
  Speaker 15: really knows what her modus operandi is, but they are
• 40:40
  Speaker 15: definitely out of favour with the British public here, Chris.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Sophie. I appreciate it. There you go.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: The real wives of the non-royals there. It's like a
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: soap opera playing out before our very eyes. We will
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: take a break. On the other side, we've got Caroline
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: de Rosso and Christy McSweeney to discuss, share their views
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: on Pauline Hanson's warning for Australia. Let's get into the
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: panel now. Panel now, and joining us from Melbourne, I
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: was speaking like a Melburnian, calling it a panel, Christy McSweeney,
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: founder of PR Council. Thanks for joining us from the
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: wonderful city of Melbourne and over in Perth, of course,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: we've got Caroline DeRusso. Great to have you both on board. Caroline,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: let's start with you. Is Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joyce
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: and others right to be worried about what's happening in
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: this country based on those riots in France and across Europe?
• 41:38
  Speaker 13: I think in Australia we should always be cautious about
• 41:41
  Speaker 13: our borders and I think that there is just good practice.
• 41:45
  Speaker 13: Good social and societal hygiene, right? And I think it's
• 41:49
  Speaker 13: important that we do that. I do think we also
• 41:52
  Speaker 13: need to be a little bit careful about what we
• 41:55
  Speaker 13: import from overseas, similar to the BLM shenanigans of 2020.
• 42:00
  Speaker 13: I mean, they came over here with, you know, great
• 42:04
  Speaker 13: fluster and they really didn't apply here. So, yes, we've
• 42:08
  Speaker 13: got our issues. Every country has its issues and we
• 42:10
  Speaker 13: should always... We should always, you know, take preventative measures to,
• 42:15
  Speaker 13: you know, make sure that our society is safe and cohesive.
• 42:18
  Speaker 13: And sure, Chris, people should come here. And we've talked
• 42:21
  Speaker 13: about this how many times you've got, you know, you
• 42:22
  Speaker 13: should come here, you should have our values. That goes
• 42:25
  Speaker 13: without saying. But I think we just need to be
• 42:27
  Speaker 13: a little careful about transplanting other countries' problems here in Australia.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, we've seen the horrors of the Bondi massacre,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: but we've seen hatred on our streets in protests, Christy,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: for three years, two and a half years leading up
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: to that. We've got the Coalition and One Nation promising
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: strong policies on reducing the number of migrants and increasing
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: the standards. But yet it's One Nation, it's Pauline Hanson
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: and Barnaby Joyce out there strongly on this today. Shouldn't
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: the Coalition have some spine and be out there strongly
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: on these issues too?
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: Look, I think the Coalition is out there strongly on
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: these issues. One Nation, they know what their locked-in court
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: constituency is, right? And it's people that respond to that message.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: The Coalition and Labor, they have broader constituencies. It's much
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: more difficult for them. We all know that.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Well, the Coalition doesn't now. I'm not on current polling.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: It's a bit narrower for the Coalition. And it's the
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: core constituency of One Nation. They need to win back. So,
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's about calling a spade a spade, right?
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: And that is that this is a symptom of.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Where we're heading.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: I think they'd like to, Chris.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: I think they'd like to. But Angus Taylor has been
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: firm that, you know, the numbers are too high and
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: the standards.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Are too low. Yeah, but where was he today?
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: I think he's gone further than the government. Look, I
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: don't know, but I think his rhetoric is further than
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: what the government has gone. Sure, he can't go quite
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: as far as One Nation, Chris. And let's not forget,
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: these are not riots about migration. These are riots about
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: budget cuts, about public sector cuts. about better school conditions. Certainly,
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: they are an example of what has happened when a
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: number of, a population of displaced young men, airing all
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: sorts of grievances, turned to mass violence. But it is
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: not a protest and riots about migration, for a start.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: It's a social problem that you have that level of violence.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Sentiment is right. It shows a society that's falling apart
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: when you have that level of widespread violence, I think,
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: is the real concern. Absolutely.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: I completely agree. The sentiment is right. The message is
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: a little bit off.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Let us get back to the domestic economy. And, Carolyn,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: I'm very interested in your reaction to the Grattan Institute
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: now going out and saying we need to increase... the GST,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: from 10% to 15% and broadened it across all foodstuffs.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Josh Frydenberg in his book said we need to look
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: at this as well. I mean, this is the trouble,
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: isn't it, when you've got such high levels of government spending,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: instead of arguing about where to pull government back and
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: restrain the spending, they're just looking for higher taxes to
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: pay for it all.
• 45:24
  Speaker 13: We're on a Unity ticket, and in fact, I have
• 45:27
  Speaker 13: started writing something on this today, and that is exactly
• 45:30
  Speaker 13: my point. This is the cart before the horse.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 45:35
  Speaker 13: And I understand there should always be conversations around tax reform.
• 45:39
  Speaker 13: And in a general sense, as someone who has coded
• 45:43
  Speaker 13: their transactions on zero, if we had a broadened base
• 45:49
  Speaker 13: of the GST, the administration and productivity within businesses would
• 45:53
  Speaker 13: be improved because it's actually incredibly messy coding and dealing
• 45:56
  Speaker 13: with GST. Some things have it, some things don't. So
• 46:00
  Speaker 13: I have sympathy for broadening the base, and I think
• 46:04
  Speaker 13: that will make it neater and tidier for everyone. Lifting it,
• 46:07
  Speaker 13: I'm not so keen on. But you hit the nail
• 46:10
  Speaker 13: on the head, Chris. First, they need to deal with spending.
• 46:14
  Speaker 13: You deal with your horse first. Because the only reason
• 46:17
  Speaker 13: you need more tax is because you're piddling money up
• 46:20
  Speaker 13: the wall and the taxpayer's actually not getting that much
• 46:23
  Speaker 13: value for their buck. And the fact that they try
• 46:26
  Speaker 13: and say, oh, well, we're going to use it for
• 46:29
  Speaker 13: tax cuts. No, no, that's just the carrot to entice
• 46:33
  Speaker 13: the electorate to accept it.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: This is all.
• 46:35
  Speaker 13: Going to be funded by debt.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 46:38
  Speaker 13: That is ultimately the point.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Net positive always for the government coffers, Christy.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Always.
• 46:44
  Speaker 13: Every time.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: I think that, well, the government's running out of people
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: who are economically productive that can contribute more.
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: You know, 50% of the taxpayers' revenue in this country
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: goes to the government. 50% of revenue is funded by
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: the Australian taxpayer. They've hit a ceiling. They can't produce
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: any more money for the government. Neither is anybody becoming
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: aspirational and starting a business. So the government's killed.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: That, right?
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: There are no more people in the future that you
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: can tax at a higher rate that will produce things
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: that can be sold under a business scenario. So... I
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: just get to the foundations of money in, money out first,
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: as Caroline says.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Deal with your horse. Yeah, indeed. Now, just a really
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: quick one. I want to show you some pictures here
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: of some e-bikes seized by the New South Wales police.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: They're going to go crush them. These are those e-bikes
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: that are then fiddled with so they can go faster.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: They are causing problems right around the country. They're dangerous.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: People are getting killed with them. Isn't that simple here?
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, if there's a motorbike, it has to be
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: registered and you have to have a licence to drive it.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: You have to be over 16. These things are motorbikes.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: If those engines had internal combustion engines, they'd be motorbikes.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Why do we have a different category just because the
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: engines happen to be electric, Caroline?
• 48:15
  Speaker 13: Well, there shouldn't be. There shouldn't be and they're still
• 48:18
  Speaker 13: on the roads. And look, you know, I'm always going
• 48:21
  Speaker 13: to be a smaller government, less regulation type person. But
• 48:24
  Speaker 13: where we have regulation, it needs to be good regulation
• 48:27
  Speaker 13: and it needs to be timely regulation, Chris. Governments are always,
• 48:32
  Speaker 13: you know, so far behind the eight ball on new things.
• 48:34
  Speaker 13: And ultimately, there is a problem here. It is discreet.
• 48:38
  Speaker 13: But just put in place a solution that covers over
• 48:41
  Speaker 13: the problem without causing other problems anyway. I don't know
• 48:44
  Speaker 13: why this is so hard for government.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: It's pretty simple.
• 48:46
  Speaker 13: Just fix it, have good regulation, because this is actually
• 48:49
  Speaker 13: security stuff.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: If a bike has a motor, it's a motorbike, no
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: matter what kind of motor it is. Thanks for joining us,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: Christy and Caroline. I appreciate it. We are right out
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: of time. Thanks for joining me. Here's Peter Credlin.