Latest / Romancing the Threshold / When the Avalanche Reveals the Valley

Transcript

When the Avalanche Reveals the Valley · Romancing the Threshold

0:40
SPEAKER_00: So I have a confession to make.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: Earlier this year,
0:44
SPEAKER_00: when I was really diving into reading romance novels,
0:48
SPEAKER_00: I was hunting for a troll romance.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes,
0:52
SPEAKER_00: specifically trolls,
0:54
SPEAKER_00: because that's the nickname for my husband,
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Jason,
0:57
SPEAKER_00: who you probably met in the last episode.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: And in that search,
1:01
SPEAKER_00: I stumbled into Ella Larson's Falling for the Hidden Folk series,
1:06
SPEAKER_00: starting with Adjusting Focus.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: what I found wasn't just the troll romance I was craving.
1:13
I found something that speaks directly to what we explore here
1:17
on Romancing the Threshold.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Stories about those avalanche moments in life that both bury and reveal,
1:25
SPEAKER_00: that force us through doorways we didn't choose but somehow needed.
1:31
You know,
1:31
this podcast is still finding its own legs,
1:34
one conversation at a time.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: But what's becoming clearer with each episode is this.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: What if we approached change,
1:44
SPEAKER_00: not with wide-knuckling it and in survival mode,
1:48
SPEAKER_00: but with the curiosity of lovers?
1:51
SPEAKER_00: What if we lingered in the in-between instead of rushing through it?
1:56
SPEAKER_00: What if we trusted that the liminal space,
1:59
SPEAKER_00: that valley between who we were and who we are becoming,
2:04
SPEAKER_00: is actually fertile ground?
2:07
SPEAKER_00: Ella's Hidden Folk series lives these questions.
2:11
She's created this hidden valley in Norway,
2:13
a valley where transformation isn't rushed,
2:17
but
2:18
where the in-between becomes a place of discovery rather than
2:22
something to escape.
2:23
Her characters don't just survive the avalanche,
2:27
they learn to romance the aftermath.
2:30
They discover that sometimes catastrophe cracks us open to
2:35
magic we couldn't see before.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Each character faces that same threshold,
2:41
SPEAKER_00: the avalanche,
2:43
SPEAKER_00: but experiences it completely differently.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: just as we do in life.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: We can go through the same event and have wildly different crossings.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: And at the heart of it all is this question.
2:56
When love asks you to choose,
2:59
when belonging requires you to be seen,
3:02
what do you risk?
3:04
SPEAKER_00: What do you gain?
3:06
And when the old world is literally buried in snow,
3:10
how do you learn to love what's revealed?
3:13
SPEAKER_00: I knew I had to have Ella on the podcast,
3:16
SPEAKER_00: not just because I'm a fan of her work,
3:19
SPEAKER_00: but because she's writing what I believe we desperately need right now.
3:24
Stories that honor the pause,
3:26
the wrestling,
3:27
the fertile uncertainty of transformation.
3:31
Stories that show us how to be curious about who we are
3:35
becoming rather than
3:37
SPEAKER_00: gripping tight to who we were.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: So let's cross this threshold together.
3:45
So today I'm really delighted to have a guest with me,
3:50
and that's Ella Larson.
3:52
She's the author of Falling for the Hidden Folk series,
3:55
which I highly recommend.
3:58
And one of the ways I actually did find your series earlier in
4:01
the year was I was
4:03
looking for a troll romance because that's the nickname I have
4:07
for my husband.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: And I was starting to read lots of romances.
4:10
And I was like,
4:11
well,
4:11
I see orcs,
4:12
I see minotaurs,
4:14
but where are the trolls?
4:15
SPEAKER_00: So that's doing a search.
4:18
And by the magic of the algorithm,
4:19
I found your first book of the series,
4:22
Adjusting Focus.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: And once I read that, I was absolutely hooked.
4:27
I went to the second,
4:27
I went to the third,
4:28
and then I'm like,
4:29
I'm waiting for the next ones.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: And so it has been a real treat reading the series.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: I think you're at number six now that just came out.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: And what I really appreciated about the books...
4:43
SPEAKER_00: is that to me,
4:45
SPEAKER_00: it felt like you were writing about a threshold,
4:49
SPEAKER_00: crossing a real magical threshold into the hidden valley,
4:54
SPEAKER_00: right?
4:55
SPEAKER_00: And it all starts with the avalanche,
4:58
SPEAKER_00: this catastrophe as sort of like a threshold,
5:01
SPEAKER_00: a doorway into something mysterious.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: And it becomes this valley.
5:07
The Heimley Valley becomes this in-between place of discovery
5:12
and belonging and
5:14
SPEAKER_00: found family,
5:16
SPEAKER_00: acknowledgement of desire.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: So that's what really I see in reading the series.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: And I'm really excited to see where you're going to go with it.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: And we'll talk more about that.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: But...
5:26
SPEAKER_00: That's what excited me.
5:28
So when you said yes to the podcast,
5:29
I was like,
5:30
oh,
5:30
I'm having a little fangirl moment here.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: So how are you doing?
5:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm blushing a little bit now.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad you like the Hidden Folk series and...
5:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm amazed you get so much from it.
5:51
And it's always interesting to hear what readers are actually
5:54
thinking of what I was thinking.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
5:57
SPEAKER_01: I'll just write a spicy little sort of troll book,
6:01
SPEAKER_01: which is now,
6:02
SPEAKER_01: as you say,
6:02
SPEAKER_01: turned into six.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to this.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for asking me.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: So I guess take us back to the beginning for you.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: How did the series begin for you?
6:18
SPEAKER_00: You know,
6:19
SPEAKER_00: this can help the ones who read the series or the ones who might be like,
6:23
SPEAKER_00: oh,
6:24
SPEAKER_00: a hidden valley.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: So tell me more.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: So how did it start?
6:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess it started with where we all start with reading.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: I'd been reading really big epic fantasies for a long time.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: And I was just getting tired of them.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: And my brain just,
6:47
SPEAKER_01: you know,
6:47
SPEAKER_01: with family life and everything,
6:48
I just couldn't sort of hack all the politics and everything
6:52
that was going on.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: I just couldn't take it.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I need something...
6:57
SPEAKER_01: I need something more fun.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: And I stumbled across Finlay Fenn, who writes the Orcsworn series.
7:07
And that was right up my street because it combined the sort of
7:11
epic worlds and the
7:14
SPEAKER_01: high fantasy that I like from the epic fantasy that I read with...
7:20
very spicy romance I don't know if you've read those series
7:25
I've read the first one
7:26
SPEAKER_00: The Lady and the Orc yeah
7:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you know they are not for the newcomers, those books.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they were my first ones.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: And let's just say I was inspired and I was like,
7:43
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
7:43
SPEAKER_01: this looks so much fun to write something like this.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: However, I was not inspired.
7:50
quite brave enough to go as far as Finley then has done with
7:56
her spice levels.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: But so I was sat thinking,
7:59
SPEAKER_01: OK,
8:00
SPEAKER_01: I was getting into monster romance,
8:03
SPEAKER_01: checking out all the other things out there.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: And of course,
8:05
SPEAKER_01: there's so many things with like vampires,
8:08
SPEAKER_01: werewolves,
8:09
SPEAKER_01: all those things that have been done.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: And like you, I couldn't find trolls anywhere.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: And I was sat looking out my window going, well, hang on.
8:19
I live in Norway,
8:21
where part of their mythology,
8:24
their folklore,
8:26
is trolls and are trolls.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: Even today, it's quite a big part of the folklore.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: So...
8:37
That was kind of how it came about,
8:39
but it also goes a little bit further back.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: When I got married to my husband,
8:44
SPEAKER_01: who is Norwegian,
8:45
SPEAKER_01: our wedding,
8:47
SPEAKER_01: because again,
8:48
SPEAKER_01: I was like,
8:49
SPEAKER_01: oh,
8:49
SPEAKER_01: I love Norwegian nature.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: I love folklore.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: I love a bit of fantasy.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to get this bit of fantasy into our wedding.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: And we actually had all these little figurines.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: They...
9:03
I don't know if they make them anymore,
9:04
but they were really popular in the sort of 70s,
9:07
80s.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: They're called Niform or Niform.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm not entirely sure how you pronounce it.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: I would say Niform.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Trolls.
9:15
If you just Google them,
9:16
you'll see all these trolls with like bushy hair.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm not talking the Danish ones with the bright pink or whatever.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: And I'm talking and they have really long noses.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: They're quite...
9:27
SPEAKER_01: ugly looking, but in a cute way.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: And this was all sort of coming together when I was reading Finley Fenn.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, but what if we made them sexy?
9:38
SPEAKER_01: What if we made these little troll figurines hot?
9:42
SPEAKER_01: And that was kind of where the concept came from,
9:46
SPEAKER_01: from living in Norway,
9:48
SPEAKER_01: from wanting this little bit of folklore magic in the everyday.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
9:56
I love this image that came right from your own experience just
10:00
outside your door.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: And, of course, the inspiration from Finley's books.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: But going back a little further here,
10:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking,
10:10
SPEAKER_00: what drew you to romance,
10:13
SPEAKER_00: sort of monster romance?
10:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
10:14
SPEAKER_00: I know you had the background and the joy of reading epic fantasy,
10:18
SPEAKER_00: but that was getting a little tiring.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: So what was the spark for monster romance?
10:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that is a very good question.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not entirely sure I know the answer.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
10:28
SPEAKER_01: we sort of joke that everyone of our generation,
10:31
we grew up watching Beauty and the Beast and all these movies
10:35
where the love
10:36
SPEAKER_01: interest,
10:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
10:37
SPEAKER_01: the Robin Hood from Disney,
10:38
SPEAKER_01: everybody loved him and he's a fox.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: So I don't really know.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: I think I just saw it and thought, oh, OK, that's different.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: So it's this sort of epic fantasy.
10:53
But instead of like a Viking or something,
10:57
the main male character is a troll.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: And OK, not troll, an orc.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: And orcs are quite humanoid, so it wasn't a huge jump.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: Obviously,
11:07
there are some monster romance which are well outside my
11:11
comfort zone in terms of
11:13
SPEAKER_01: what types of monster they are.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: So it was just sort of a,
11:17
SPEAKER_01: okay,
11:18
so an orc is kind of just like a really big dude with big sharp
11:21
teeth and he's
11:22
SPEAKER_01: green.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: But it was enough of that magic and otherness that sort of pulled me in.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I blame all the stuff we watched as kids, really.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
11:37
SPEAKER_00: I thought about because why I like monsters,
11:40
SPEAKER_00: which really diving in now,
11:43
the origin story to me was my favorite fairy tale is Beauty and
11:47
the Beast.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: So already I've been kind of nursing that for many years.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes when I see how all the orcs have exploded on the scene,
11:57
SPEAKER_00: I sometimes think,
11:58
SPEAKER_00: what is Tolkien thinking in his grave?
12:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, what we've done with orcs.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: But the trolls,
12:06
SPEAKER_00: I was really,
12:07
really like looking and I did find one other that I read that I
12:11
didn't really care
12:12
SPEAKER_00: for.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: But then I came upon yours and I was like,
12:14
SPEAKER_00: oh,
12:16
SPEAKER_00: to me,
12:16
SPEAKER_00: the books that you wrote transported there was both the world,
12:23
SPEAKER_00: but it was easier to understand the world because it's also our world.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: So their sense of I'm thinking in our world,
12:29
SPEAKER_00: discovering something magical that's thus far been hidden.
12:33
And I really appreciated how each book,
12:38
at least in the beginning,
12:39
it's each character
12:42
reliving telling the avalanche story from their perspective so
12:46
then you you're
12:48
crossing that threshold again and again you know not just from
12:52
the first book so
12:53
for me i don't know that was just transportive and then i've
12:57
got me thinking oh no
12:59
way so i'm curious here is you know your husband is noegian you
13:04
live in norway
13:06
I'm wondering if you feel a connection between your own
13:09
experience of moving to
13:10
SPEAKER_00: Norway,
13:12
SPEAKER_00: creating this new life,
13:14
SPEAKER_00: and then the characters in your book,
13:17
SPEAKER_00: you know,
13:17
SPEAKER_00: crossing that threshold into a different place.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a very good question.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've never really thought about it, but I guess so.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: Thinking back when I met my husband, obviously, like we met online.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: I'd never been to Norway.
13:32
I'd heard it as this place,
13:34
you know,
13:34
as everybody does of Vikings and fjords.
13:37
And you do hear about the trolls and stuff,
13:39
but I didn't really know anything about it.
13:42
And so as we were dating and we were sort of doing the long
13:45
distance relationship thing.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: The first few times I came to Norway, it was this magical place.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: I remember getting off the plane and,
13:55
SPEAKER_01: and I live in the,
13:56
SPEAKER_01: I was living in the UK at the time,
13:58
SPEAKER_01: which is a pretty green and lush land,
14:01
SPEAKER_01: but just to get off out of the airport and onto the motorway,
14:05
SPEAKER_01: even the motorway is you're driving through these big mountains,
14:10
SPEAKER_01: you're driving over the,
14:12
sort of lakes and and rivers and it's so beautiful and my
14:16
husband was like we've
14:17
SPEAKER_01: literally just left we're still in the city I'm like but it's beautiful
14:22
And one time we went to a Stavchirka,
14:27
which is the old,
14:28
very,
14:29
very old types of church.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: You might have seen them.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: They look very sort of black, all made of wood.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: There's very few of them left there.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: They're very old.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: And it was just, it's like you drive there and it's just there.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: And you're like, how is this real?
14:45
SPEAKER_01: This is something from a movie or...
14:49
storybook but no it's just sat there in the countryside and
14:53
yeah it was just beautiful and
14:59
I guess,
14:59
I guess it must have lent into the creation of the Hidden Folk
15:04
series.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: I've never really thought of it.
15:08
It's a bit of my,
15:09
you know,
15:10
therapist background coming in and being curious.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: It's like,
15:12
SPEAKER_00: you know,
15:13
SPEAKER_00: what inspired you and how do you,
15:16
SPEAKER_00: in a way,
15:16
SPEAKER_00: I was wondering about your own lived experience,
15:19
SPEAKER_00: you know,
15:20
SPEAKER_00: the trolls and
15:21
SPEAKER_00: made a presence in your wedding,
15:24
SPEAKER_00: you know,
15:25
SPEAKER_00: and then you move to the land where the trolls,
15:27
SPEAKER_00: the myths are still very much alive.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: And then the landscape itself,
15:33
SPEAKER_00: because I see the landscape in the books as very vital to the story,
15:38
SPEAKER_00: as if Norway and the valley is another character to me.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:44
I mean,
15:44
there is the story as well,
15:46
which I guess was somewhere in the back of my mind.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: But when obviously the going a bit dark here,
15:53
SPEAKER_01: when the plague was going around Europe in the 15th century,
15:57
SPEAKER_01: 14th,
15:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm not very good with dates.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: There's this story about villages in the woods and people
16:08
SPEAKER_01: They were left.
16:09
SPEAKER_01: They were just abandoned or the people died there.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: And then they weren't discovered until like the 1960s or something.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: They were all still there.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the bones were still there.
16:23
And it was kind of like the landscape can be so rural here and
16:29
so wild that these
16:30
SPEAKER_01: places are almost impenetrable.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: And so somewhere in the back of my mind,
16:36
SPEAKER_01: that story was,
16:37
SPEAKER_01: you know,
16:38
SPEAKER_01: this village was just forgotten about and hidden,
16:43
SPEAKER_01: essentially,
16:44
SPEAKER_01: until some hiker came and found it.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Wow, I never heard of that.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: That's really impressive.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
16:51
SPEAKER_01: it might not have been the 60s,
16:53
but somewhere there was this story about a village that's from
16:58
the plague that just
16:59
SPEAKER_01: got completely forgotten about until very recently in our history.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
17:06
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it,
17:07
SPEAKER_00: because even in reading the stories,
17:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm always constantly thinking,
17:11
SPEAKER_00: like,
17:11
SPEAKER_00: how hidden is it?
17:12
SPEAKER_00: How far is it?
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Because I know you created,
17:15
SPEAKER_00: if I'm correct,
17:17
SPEAKER_00: you created a place,
17:18
SPEAKER_00: you know,
17:18
SPEAKER_00: it's not an actual place.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: No,
17:22
SPEAKER_01: I guess in my head as well,
17:24
SPEAKER_01: it would be a bit more,
17:25
it would be more towards the coast and more on the west side
17:30
and further north than
17:32
SPEAKER_01: where I live,
17:33
SPEAKER_01: which is quite far south.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: So I guess it would be, because in, which book is it?
17:39
SPEAKER_01: Book five.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: I do mention Gairang Fjord, which is a very famous fjord.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: That's where all the cruise ships go and everything.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: So it's sort of in that area.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: But it is completely fictional.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I didn't want to start annoying any of the local population.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: It's true.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: Well,
18:05
SPEAKER_00: sort of kicking off the series itself,
18:07
SPEAKER_00: and I'm thinking about the powerful image of the avalanche.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that feels like pure disaster.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: And but it ends up being the doorway.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: It cracks open the doorway,
18:22
SPEAKER_00: not just for the characters,
18:23
SPEAKER_00: but it reveals something hidden,
18:26
SPEAKER_00: much like,
18:26
SPEAKER_00: you know,
18:27
SPEAKER_00: the Black Plague Village,
18:29
SPEAKER_00: but way less dark than that.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: But what made you choose the image of the avalanche?
18:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, that essentially came down to just story planning.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: I had the idea, okay, well, I've got these characters.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: How on earth are they going to meet a troll?
18:49
SPEAKER_01: And I was sat for ages thinking, how am I going to do this?
18:54
SPEAKER_01: And the only thing I could think of was something very climactic,
18:59
SPEAKER_01: very sort of striking because...
19:04
SPEAKER_01: They could just have,
19:05
SPEAKER_01: the trolls could just have watched these humans,
19:08
SPEAKER_01: made sure they didn't come into their valley,
19:10
SPEAKER_01: and it would have been fine.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: But I just felt it needed something more to push them together.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: And maybe I do have a penchant for the darker side of things.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: But also, as you said, sometimes these sort of...
19:27
SPEAKER_01: Events like this, the avalanche, it uncovers something.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: You're breaking into a new world.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: And in order to do that,
19:35
you do need some sort of chaos or some sort of destruction in
19:40
order to discover
19:42
SPEAKER_01: these new things.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: If you think about archaeology,
19:45
SPEAKER_01: you have to break through the earth to find the treasures that are there.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: So I guess part of it was just dramatic, dramatic flair.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: And another part of it was, no, I need a good reason.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: I need something that would really bring this world to light.
20:09
and obviously with the avalanche and you see in the first four
20:12
first four and five
20:14
books that does bring the human world right to their doorstep
20:19
it is a constant sort
20:20
source of stress for the heimley community for the hidden folk
20:26
um and i don't know
20:28
how much more i could say because i don't want to give too many
20:30
spoilers yeah you
20:33
SPEAKER_00: don't want to give the spoilers yeah
20:36
SPEAKER_00: But,
20:37
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:37
SPEAKER_00: you touch on something that,
20:39
SPEAKER_00: as you say,
20:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking,
20:40
SPEAKER_00: I,
20:40
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:41
SPEAKER_00: the name of this podcast is Romancing the Threshold.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: So my idea here is we're constantly going through thresholds,
20:49
SPEAKER_00: some much more easy,
20:51
SPEAKER_00: others avalanche style,
20:53
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:53
SPEAKER_00: something so enormous beyond us takes over.
20:59
And I'm thinking,
21:00
as you were talking about it,
21:01
how the avalanche both covers and
21:04
It covers the cabin where they were and reveals another world
21:11
that was thus far hidden.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: And when you touched on how the trolls,
21:16
it was the constant kind of anxiety they had between watching
21:20
right on that
21:21
SPEAKER_00: boundary,
21:21
SPEAKER_00: the human world and their world constantly protecting that threshold.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: But the avalanche comes.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: And granted,
21:30
SPEAKER_00: it's for the plot,
21:31
SPEAKER_00: dramatics,
21:32
SPEAKER_00: but it carries,
21:34
SPEAKER_00: I feel,
21:35
SPEAKER_00: both the trolls and the humans.
21:38
They have to cross this threshold together now of nothing will
21:42
be the same.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
21:44
SPEAKER_01: that's right,
21:44
SPEAKER_01: because the trolls,
21:46
SPEAKER_01: obviously,
21:47
SPEAKER_01: their species are on their last generation,
21:50
SPEAKER_01: basically.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: They need more humans,
21:55
SPEAKER_01: I will say male or female,
21:56
because there are other hidden folk in the valley as well who
21:59
are in a similar
22:00
SPEAKER_01: situation.
22:01
So yeah,
22:01
they could just watch these humans and let their species die
22:06
out.
22:07
Or they,
22:08
in this case,
22:10
are forced to do something because they rescue these women.
22:16
They're not just going to let them be obliterated by an
22:20
avalanche because...
22:22
It's difficult because I would say no human would do that,
22:25
but they're not human.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: And no person with a heart would do that.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: So they have to put themselves out there.
22:35
They have to show themselves in order to do the right thing and
22:40
protect these women.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: And in the first instance,
22:43
SPEAKER_01: they're not necessarily,
22:45
SPEAKER_01: although,
22:45
SPEAKER_01: well,
22:46
SPEAKER_01: they're having a nice look beforehand and going,
22:48
SPEAKER_00: oh yeah,
22:49
SPEAKER_00: that would be nice.
22:50
But they're not necessarily going to,
22:53
you know,
22:53
go and kidnap these women to save their race.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: So they're not doing it for sort of malicious intent.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, you're right.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: It does.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: It does thrust both of both the human and the hidden folk together.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: The avalanche.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
23:11
SPEAKER_00: right on that threshold that they watch them,
23:13
SPEAKER_00: because in the beginning they're just watching them,
23:16
SPEAKER_00: and then they both have to meet.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: Something creates that.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: How do you see the avalanche itself,
23:25
SPEAKER_00: both for the trolls and the women,
23:27
SPEAKER_00: the human characters,
23:30
SPEAKER_00: how do you see that influence in the way they step into change?
23:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, they are pretty much forced to do something about it.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: And it is that fight or flight instinct in the very first instance.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: As we see with Jepa, he makes the wrong decision.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: But it also in high...
23:54
SPEAKER_01: high stress situations like that,
23:57
SPEAKER_01: you discover more about yourself and maybe it's good,
24:02
SPEAKER_01: maybe it's bad,
24:03
SPEAKER_01: maybe it's something you never even thought you could do.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: And I think we see that with Lauren because she's,
24:11
SPEAKER_01: you know,
24:11
SPEAKER_01: she is this sassy,
24:14
SPEAKER_01: big mouthed attorney,
24:16
SPEAKER_01: lawyer.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: But then in that moment,
24:20
SPEAKER_01: All she can do is scream.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: She she shows the vulnerability that she's been hiding throughout.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: And that is all that comes through.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: And so for her,
24:31
the avalanche is it kind of pushes her into this place of you
24:36
need to let others
24:38
SPEAKER_01: help you.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: which is very uncomfortable for her.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: She doesn't like it.
24:45
And that's the thing with these moments where you're forced to
24:50
make a decision.
24:51
You might not like what you see,
24:52
but it might be exactly what you need,
24:56
if that makes any sense.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: No,
24:58
SPEAKER_00: it does,
24:59
SPEAKER_00: because I'm hearing and thinking about the other characters,
25:01
SPEAKER_00: but just hearing and thinking about people,
25:03
SPEAKER_00: just personal experiences and experiences...
25:08
SPEAKER_00: I said Lauren.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: I didn't mean Lauren.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: I meant Izzy.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: Oh, Izzy, that's right.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: I thought you looked a bit confused.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: Izzy, sorry.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: It's been a while since I wrote those ones.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, you all need to read the books to know.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: Just telling the audience.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: But I was thinking here about how...
25:27
Just my own personal experience,
25:29
experience that I've seen friends,
25:31
family and clients.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: When we go through these threshold moments,
25:36
SPEAKER_00: these crises,
25:37
SPEAKER_00: we discover things about ourselves that we don't know.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: And
25:42
SPEAKER_00: It's quite unsettling.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm thinking about the whole series,
25:46
SPEAKER_00: at least the first five,
25:47
SPEAKER_00: how each character goes through,
25:50
SPEAKER_00: showcases a different way to cross that threshold.
25:55
Izzy,
25:56
the power lawyer,
25:57
mouthy,
25:59
you know,
25:59
authority,
26:01
all of a sudden she needs to accept.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: She needs to strip down to be able to accept help.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: the other characters deal with it differently.
26:09
And so I think you showcase different ways to deal with
26:11
transition through each
26:13
SPEAKER_00: each of the books.
26:16
I mean,
26:16
it was quite a challenge at one point,
26:18
but well,
26:19
partly coordinating all four books.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: But by the time I got to sort of book or three,
26:24
SPEAKER_01: I was like,
26:25
SPEAKER_01: okay,
26:26
SPEAKER_01: I need this experience to be different.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: And that was really,
26:29
SPEAKER_01: I really had to look at their characters at that point,
26:33
because I couldn't just write something that wouldn't be true
26:36
to their character.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's, yeah, that was interesting.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: a very interesting thing for me to do,
26:43
SPEAKER_01: look at this same event and how it affected the people differently.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: In many ways, that's really what gripped me with the series.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: It was to...
26:56
Because when I got to the second book,
26:57
I was like,
26:58
oh,
26:58
we're back at the avalanche.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, oh, how's this going to be different?
27:03
SPEAKER_00: So I really like this.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: As if in reading the book,
27:06
SPEAKER_00: each book,
27:07
SPEAKER_00: I was crossing the threshold again and again and going there with them.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: Now, once they go and a lot happens, not giving any spoilers.
27:17
You know,
27:18
they go to the valley,
27:20
the Heimli Valley,
27:21
where the hidden folk are.
27:23
And this is a place that brings up a lot of things,
27:26
fear,
27:27
belonging,
27:28
transformation.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: What does this valley mean to you?
27:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, what does it symbolize to you?
27:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: There's so many things.
27:40
I mean,
27:41
in a way,
27:41
it's a sense of things we've lost and things we could have
27:47
again.
27:47
It's also a sense of community,
27:53
which in today's society is becoming harder and harder to find.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: And just...
28:00
SPEAKER_01: a place where things are possible because it's all in Heimley.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: They can, they can stay if they want, they can leave.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: There are conditions with their leaving, but that is their choice.
28:19
And I guess it comes down to your choices matter in life and it
28:25
is what you make of it.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:30
but also it's just a bit magical and whimsical and I kind of
28:35
want to go there I'm
28:37
SPEAKER_00: ready I'm ready to buy the plane ticket to go there
28:45
I really liked in the valley because the valley to me
28:51
symbolizes a bit this in
28:52
SPEAKER_00: between space,
28:54
SPEAKER_00: because at least for a good chunk of the stories,
28:56
SPEAKER_00: the characters are wrestling with the choice.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: to stay or to go, and the cost that it has for each choice.
29:07
So I find that when they are in the valley,
29:10
it's kind of being in an in-between space.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: Even the valley itself is still hidden, right?
29:16
SPEAKER_00: And so I find this,
29:17
SPEAKER_00: you know,
29:19
SPEAKER_00: if you think about your own life,
29:20
SPEAKER_00: your experience,
29:21
SPEAKER_00: and other stories you've written,
29:24
SPEAKER_00: what do you think about the space of the in-between?
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's a good analogy for Heimley.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: And as well, I think that's important.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: I think that the space in between is a pause.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: It's a place to reflect where you are,
29:44
SPEAKER_01: where you've come from,
29:46
SPEAKER_01: what you're learning,
29:47
SPEAKER_01: because we're always learning.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: And essentially,
29:52
the pause gives you time to think about what is important to
29:56
you and what it is you
29:58
SPEAKER_01: really want.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: Well,
30:00
because I was thinking part of my idea around the threshold is
30:04
that there are many
30:05
SPEAKER_00: thresholds that happen and we are like thrown into something else,
30:08
like the avalanche throws the characters into a different
30:12
situation completely.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: But I feel like in our world, that's so fast.
30:18
We're often pushed or at least taught to believe that change
30:21
needs to be quick.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: Once you go, there you are.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: You should be good to go.
30:26
You know,
30:26
like you should move to another country and adapt and cool and
30:30
be done.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: But there's a long in between.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: There's a long transition.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:36
And so that's why I'm thinking,
30:38
how do we and that's why I use the word romancing.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: How do we romance this in between?
30:43
How do we relate to this space that where we're still wrestling
30:48
with the old identity?
30:50
SPEAKER_00: The new one isn't quite ready yet,
30:52
SPEAKER_00: you know,
30:53
SPEAKER_00: kind of like the characters wrestle with the decision they got to make.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: And so that's,
30:59
SPEAKER_00: you know,
30:59
SPEAKER_00: not only why I was drawn to the story,
31:01
but I think these stories like yourself or your writing is very
31:08
fitting for the
31:08
SPEAKER_00: times.
31:09
We need stories like that that help us understand that the
31:14
in-between is fertile.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: It's powerful.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: We don't have to rush through it.
31:21
I mean,
31:21
I think that also is obviously something I'm going through
31:25
myself.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people right now are.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: As you said,
31:30
life is so fast at the minute and we're starting to see through
31:35
it and we're
31:36
starting to want to slow down and just take a breath and enjoy
31:41
this life because
31:43
SPEAKER_01: otherwise it's gone.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, this space in between.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: and learning about who you are and where you are in this exact moment,
31:57
SPEAKER_01: I think is very important.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: And obviously,
31:58
SPEAKER_01: like I said,
31:59
SPEAKER_01: a lot of stuff,
32:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking about a lot of this stuff at the moment in my own life.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: So obviously that spills over into my books.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: But as well, I...
32:10
SPEAKER_01: especially with monster romance.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of fantastic monster romance authors out there.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying it shouldn't be done like this,
32:20
SPEAKER_01: obviously,
32:20
SPEAKER_01: because a lot of people need just the no high stakes,
32:24
SPEAKER_01: no stakes at all books for them.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: That is what they need.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: And that's great.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: However,
32:30
SPEAKER_01: when I'm reading those books,
32:32
SPEAKER_01: I always feel,
32:33
SPEAKER_01: even if the book is fantastic,
32:35
SPEAKER_01: I personally feel something is missing.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: And I need that little bit of realism.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: Annoying as... I just despair of reality sometimes.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: But if you don't have any reality in the books,
32:53
SPEAKER_01: I struggle to really sort of follow the story when there's no realism.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: So I do try and put a little bit of that in.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: Obviously...
33:07
SPEAKER_01: There are some heavy topics in these books,
33:10
SPEAKER_01: but I don't go into them,
33:12
SPEAKER_01: you know,
33:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm not writing a thesis on them.
33:14
I'm not exploring that particular issue or that characteristic
33:19
or whatever in so
33:21
SPEAKER_01: much detail that,
33:23
SPEAKER_01: you know,
33:24
SPEAKER_01: it's going to be a critique on the times.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: That was never my intention.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: But I do think that, yes, even though it is a...
33:34
SPEAKER_01: Some people might say a fluffy romance with monsters,
33:39
SPEAKER_01: but I still need that seed of,
33:42
SPEAKER_01: but we're grounded here in this world and these things still happen.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: As you say,
33:49
it's everything I really believe in because these stories to me
33:53
are not fluff,
33:54
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:54
SPEAKER_00: definitely not fluff at all.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of teeth in them.
33:59
And it's really interesting because,
34:01
yes,
34:01
they're the cozy ones and there's a time for them.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: We you know, it's good to have them.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: We have a buffet of choices, which is great.
34:11
But what impressed me about your story in thinking especially
34:14
about what you said,
34:15
SPEAKER_00: you really enjoying epic fantasy,
34:18
SPEAKER_00: the bigger world building politics.
34:22
I think you were able to create a story that made it in some
34:28
ways easy is not quite
34:29
SPEAKER_00: the right word,
34:29
SPEAKER_00: but it transported us quite easily into that world.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:35
It gave us teeth because we can see the resonance to certain
34:40
things that are
34:40
SPEAKER_00: happening in the world.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: But it didn't become a thesis.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: It carried us through the transformation of the character.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: So I think, you know, it's not fluff.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: It's actually quite deep.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: It's just how we approach the reading.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: And I think a part of us internally is picking that up.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: You know,
35:02
it's it's helping us collectively do a bit of the I don't know
35:09
if it's healing,
35:09
SPEAKER_00: but kind of being able to transform with what is calling us to transform,
35:15
SPEAKER_00: if that makes sense.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: Well,
35:18
SPEAKER_00: in writing the series,
35:20
are there any characters that are kind of your favorite or
35:25
surprise you in any way?
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you can't ask for favorites.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: It's like they're all your children.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: They are.
35:34
My favourite is always whoever I'm writing or the latest one
35:38
that I've written.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh, but who surprised me?
35:43
SPEAKER_01: I suppose Stian surprised me.
35:47
I actually didn't expect to see him again after he sort of
35:53
disappeared in book one.
35:55
And yeah,
35:57
so he surprised me because I wasn't expecting him to come back.
36:02
I wasn't expecting him to have the sort of self-revelation that
36:07
he did have with his partners.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so he was a character that surprised me.
36:17
And he was tricky as well,
36:20
because obviously I wanted to show his grief,
36:23
but I didn't want to.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: Stretch it out so much that we couldn't get on with the story.
36:30
But I also wanted it to be a realistic part of the story
36:35
because it is crucial.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: It's a huge thing for him and his transformation.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: And when we're talking about thresholds,
36:43
he has to step over that threshold of his own grief to come
36:48
into the world again,
36:49
SPEAKER_01: to start living again and realize that he is still alive.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: He didn't die in the avalanche.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: So he was an interesting one.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: And that story was book five, Seeking Truth.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: That book was different in a lot of ways.
37:10
And that then opened the door to write for me now to go on and
37:14
write books in not
37:16
SPEAKER_01: necessarily a different style,
37:17
SPEAKER_01: but not in the way that the first four books were written.
37:20
I can explore lots more characters now and move on with
37:26
Heimley's timeline.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't expecting his return.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: I was quite surprised.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: But I think it was a great portrayal of the stuckness of grief.
37:41
And how then meeting other characters that will lead him to
37:44
cross that threshold
37:46
SPEAKER_00: and kind of come back to life.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: I felt that that book had a lot more grip, you know, in the sense of...
37:56
SPEAKER_00: So he crossed that threshold into accepting parts of himself.
38:03
SPEAKER_00: The other part that I was wondering here,
38:06
SPEAKER_00: especially from the beginning of the series,
38:08
SPEAKER_00: you know,
38:09
each book is told from a different perspective of the original
38:14
four friends.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: What made you want to write it that way?
38:20
SPEAKER_01: Well, that is just how my brain works, apparently.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: It was just going to be one story.
38:30
I was just going to write one story and see if I could do a
38:34
monster romance.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: But of course, you know...
38:38
I couldn't just send Kathy to Norway by herself in the middle
38:41
of winter for no reason.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: So she needed to have some friends.
38:47
And then I felt it would have been a disservice to the other
38:52
three girls to just
38:54
SPEAKER_01: carry on from the end of Kathy's story.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: When clearly, you know, you've got the girls on holiday.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: Or girls, I should say women.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: They are women.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: You've got the women on holiday.
39:07
You've got the Dalvakt,
39:09
so the trolls and the Huldra who are protecting Haimli Valley.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: And so you've got these two groups and there's,
39:17
SPEAKER_01: okay,
39:17
SPEAKER_01: there's not quite an equal number,
39:19
SPEAKER_01: but it just makes,
39:21
SPEAKER_01: it just made sense to my brain to go back to,
39:24
to that moment as much as it was a headache for me at times
39:28
especially when we see
39:29
the same scene from different points of view but I have to make
39:33
that scene fresh
39:34
each time but keep the important bits I have to keep the exact
39:39
wording because it's
39:40
SPEAKER_01: already been in like two other books
39:43
So,
39:45
yeah,
39:46
my brain sometimes does good and sometimes just makes a lot of
39:50
extra work for me.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
39:53
I could see that was a creative challenge to describe the event
40:00
in different ways
40:01
SPEAKER_00: with different directions,
40:03
SPEAKER_00: you know.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: It made me think how in life we see this.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: People,
40:09
SPEAKER_00: even in a family,
40:10
SPEAKER_00: right,
40:10
SPEAKER_00: siblings will experience an event very differently from each other.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: But in reading the books,
40:17
we have the pleasure to immediately see how each one is going
40:20
to see that.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: Now,
40:23
SPEAKER_00: the other thing that I think,
40:25
SPEAKER_00: especially in the first few books that's so powerful,
40:28
SPEAKER_00: is the choice.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: This feels like the big crux, right?
40:32
SPEAKER_00: Do I stay or do I go?
40:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: And the cost of each.
40:38
And what do you think that why is this type of decision so
40:42
powerful,
40:43
especially in romance?
40:46
Because and I know a lot of romance readers won't like me for
40:50
this answer,
40:51
but I think.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: Loving someone is a choice.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: You have to make that decision to suddenly not be selfish.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: You have to make this decision.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: You are not your own entity anymore.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: You are part of a couple.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: You kind of have to give up some of your past decisions
41:15
And so does the other person if you are going to make a
41:18
relationship work.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: And that is a choice.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: And we see this in in any sort of romance.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: We see it with our friends and relatives.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: And some people just cannot make that choice.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: We see it with like commitment phobes.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: They cannot give up what they think is their sense of freedom.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: to love another person.
41:41
So the choice to stay in Haim Lee was very much about a choice
41:47
to love someone.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: And that also, but it's not always choosing to love someone.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: It's not always about giving up.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
41:56
SPEAKER_01: you might have to,
41:57
SPEAKER_01: okay,
41:57
I give up my house in this country to live with this person in
42:02
this country.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's giving something up.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: But you're also opening up yourself to gain so much,
42:10
SPEAKER_01: so much love,
42:11
SPEAKER_01: so much compassion,
42:12
SPEAKER_01: so much support,
42:14
SPEAKER_01: new experiences with this person that you have chosen.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: Because ultimately,
42:20
SPEAKER_01: at the end of the day,
42:21
SPEAKER_01: you have to say,
42:22
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
42:23
SPEAKER_01: I want to be with that person or I don't want to be with that person.
42:27
And I guess the choice to stay in Heimley just reflects that
42:34
love is a choice.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: As much as we all love the soulmates and the mate bond and all that,
42:43
SPEAKER_01: at the end of the day,
42:44
SPEAKER_01: it is down to us and what we decide.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
42:48
SPEAKER_00: that's true,
42:49
SPEAKER_00: because with the faded mates and the mate bond,
42:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
42:53
it just ups the stakes higher on the choice that we as mere
42:59
mortals over here,
43:01
SPEAKER_00: humans,
43:03
SPEAKER_00: have to make every day,
43:04
SPEAKER_00: you know?
43:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: But I'm also seeing this.
43:09
The other big thing that I could see from the books is the idea
43:12
of the found
43:13
SPEAKER_00: family,
43:15
SPEAKER_00: the sense of the search of belonging.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: And so how do you what does that mean to you?
43:22
This is for you to maybe sort of from your own personal
43:26
experiences in life.
43:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that does come from my experience.
43:33
I mean,
43:34
found family is a favourite trope for a lot of people in many
43:39
genres.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: Because, I mean, there's that expression, isn't there?
43:44
SPEAKER_01: You can't choose your family, but you can choose your friends.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: But so it's sort of
43:49
SPEAKER_01: For some people, they have amazing families and that is great.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: That is fantastic.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: And I'm very happy for them.
43:55
SPEAKER_01: But a lot of people don't.
43:57
They maybe don't have the support from their family,
43:59
even though they are loved.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: There's just something that's not quite what they need.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're not understood their job, their hobbies, the...
44:11
many many things and or maybe unfortunately people don't have
44:16
family so I think
44:17
building this sense of family in a community is very important
44:25
I moved around a lot
44:26
SPEAKER_01: growing up um
44:29
And so I am drawn to this found family trope because I think
44:34
it's fantastic.
44:35
And I guess,
44:36
you know,
44:37
I want to go on a quest with and find my found family and all
44:42
that.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: I think it's so ingrained in all of us,
44:45
just this sense of belonging with people who accept us exactly
44:50
as we are for who we
44:51
SPEAKER_01: are with no judgment.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:55
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
44:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:57
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking here,
44:58
SPEAKER_00: as you were talking about that,
45:00
SPEAKER_00: and definitely I agree,
45:02
SPEAKER_00: it's a it's a wonderful.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't even sort of really call it a trope as I'm thinking about.
45:09
I would call it really an archetypal experience because I think
45:12
especially those in
45:15
SPEAKER_00: the world today where people are moving around and there's,
45:18
SPEAKER_00: you know,
45:18
SPEAKER_00: you want to find your so-called,
45:21
SPEAKER_00: your tribe.
45:23
But one thing that as you were talking made me think about that
45:27
I hadn't thought
45:27
about before is the experience of being seen through the story
45:33
of your books.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, first the trolls are sort of in hiding.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: They're watching from a distance and then they are seen.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: Something is revealed.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: And even within the idea of found family and belonging,
45:47
I almost feel like you can't really do that until you cross the
45:51
threshold,
45:52
SPEAKER_00: just to use the word,
45:54
SPEAKER_00: of being seen.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: As you are, not hiding as you are.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: And that comes with accepting that yourself and seeing that yourself.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: And I think,
46:05
SPEAKER_01: again,
46:05
SPEAKER_01: in today's society,
46:07
SPEAKER_01: that is something that a lot of people are really sort of craving.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: They want to see themselves.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: They want...
46:15
Maybe they knew who that was when they were a child and it's
46:18
been covered up with
46:19
SPEAKER_01: work and the way society expects people to be,
46:24
but they see how they want to be or see how they were when they
46:28
were carefree.
46:29
And it is accepting that image of yourself that is what really
46:35
helps push you over
46:36
SPEAKER_01: that threshold,
46:37
SPEAKER_01: so to speak.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: Right.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
46:41
SPEAKER_01: But it's not an easy step.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: No, no.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: It's a real,
46:47
SPEAKER_00: it's a challenge that I think we all go through,
46:50
SPEAKER_00: not just once,
46:51
SPEAKER_00: many times in life,
46:53
SPEAKER_00: you know,
46:53
SPEAKER_00: because there's always a stripping of another level,
46:56
SPEAKER_00: another layer,
46:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: So I'm wondering here now, so we're kind of coming to a close.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: is,
47:03
SPEAKER_00: you know,
47:04
SPEAKER_00: the same way that when we read your books,
47:08
SPEAKER_00: we cross the avalanche,
47:09
SPEAKER_00: we cross into Heimli,
47:12
SPEAKER_00: into this other world.
47:13
What do you hope your readers would carry once they cross into
47:17
this valley?
47:18
SPEAKER_00: What do you hope them to bring back?
47:21
Well,
47:21
I guess mostly just that they had a good time,
47:24
that they enjoyed the story.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's all any writer wants, really.
47:30
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know,
47:32
SPEAKER_01: just that if something resonated with them,
47:35
SPEAKER_01: if they found something from the story,
47:40
SPEAKER_01: a particular character,
47:44
SPEAKER_01: and that helped them in some way,
47:45
SPEAKER_01: then I would find that amazing.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: But ultimately,
47:49
SPEAKER_01: if you just want to read a nice book about romance and trolls,
47:54
SPEAKER_01: then I am also very happy.
47:56
SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
47:59
SPEAKER_00: I was going to joke and say,
48:00
SPEAKER_00: if you're working with the tourist board of Norway,
48:02
SPEAKER_00: maybe you can get people to come visit.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: But,
48:08
SPEAKER_00: you know,
48:09
SPEAKER_00: the place doesn't exist in this world,
48:12
SPEAKER_00: our world,
48:13
SPEAKER_00: but it does exist in the imaginal world.
48:18
SPEAKER_00: So before we start wrapping up and before we go into our rapid questions,
48:23
SPEAKER_00: what's kind of next for you here?
48:25
SPEAKER_00: Are we going to spend more time in Heimley?
48:27
SPEAKER_00: Or are you dreaming up something new?
48:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, there will be a book coming out very soon, our Christmas book.
48:37
SPEAKER_01: And that is not a troll.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: That is not a troll.
48:41
SPEAKER_01: But there are some hard-hitting books
48:45
SPEAKER_01: In that book,
48:47
SPEAKER_01: I will just warn you now,
48:50
SPEAKER_01: although I do love Nina and Nils,
48:54
SPEAKER_01: the characters in that book.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: Again, it was a whole new experience writing that book.
49:01
SPEAKER_01: And it also opened up some more doors to some new characters,
49:07
SPEAKER_01: sidelines that I might want to go down.
49:09
SPEAKER_01: But I do have more books planned.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: I have sort of slowed down a bit.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I've worked...
49:18
SPEAKER_01: So much this year.
49:19
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
49:20
SPEAKER_01: okay,
49:20
SPEAKER_01: two books technically came out last year,
49:22
SPEAKER_01: but I feel like the whole series has just come out this year.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: And there's also the short story,
49:30
SPEAKER_01: which is part of an anthology at the moment,
49:34
SPEAKER_01: the Monstrous Cravings anthology.
49:37
When that's,
49:38
I think after three months,
49:39
I can then publish that outside of that.
49:42
So that's also another thing I have written,
49:46
which I keep forgetting about.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: But I do have more plans for Heimli and the surrounding area.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: So Trövik, the city, which is not too far away.
50:02
SPEAKER_01: That's going to play more of a role in the books.
50:07
SPEAKER_01: But yes, Sana's story is all planned and ready to go.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
50:14
SPEAKER_01: The healer from...
50:16
SPEAKER_01: from Heimli, especially book two.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: You might remember her.
50:20
And there is a plan for Fenrir,
50:24
who is a very,
50:25
very minor character in book four,
50:30
I want to say.
50:32
SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, we do.
50:34
SPEAKER_01: I know everybody wants Njord's story.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
50:39
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: It is coming.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: It's just not there yet.
50:43
SPEAKER_01: We're just letting him have a little bit of fun, chill out a bit.
50:48
SPEAKER_01: There is a potential Harpy story coming.
50:51
SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
50:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes, you've heard it here first.
50:56
So there are lots that every time I write a book in Heimley,
51:02
I get so many more ideas.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: And I just because every time I'm like, OK, this is the last one.
51:06
SPEAKER_01: This is the last one.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: We'll wrap it up.
51:08
SPEAKER_01: I can't.
51:09
SPEAKER_01: They're just because it's it is a living, breathing community now.
51:14
SPEAKER_01: It's got a life of its own.
51:16
SPEAKER_00: It does.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: It does.
51:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm wondering here,
51:19
SPEAKER_00: how do you,
51:20
SPEAKER_00: I guess,
51:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
51:24
SPEAKER_00: juggle or how do these stories come to you?
51:28
SPEAKER_00: Does the character come to you and says, Ella, it's my time now.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, I need my book.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: Or is it more subtle?
51:37
SPEAKER_00: Or do they start speaking in your head?
51:39
SPEAKER_00: How does that happen for you creatively?
51:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:44
SPEAKER_01: It's sort of as I'm writing,
51:46
SPEAKER_01: I get a pull towards certain characters,
51:49
SPEAKER_01: but also I have to look at the wider storyline.
51:52
And sometimes that does include a bit more boring sort of
51:56
sitting down and actually
51:57
planning out the next couple of books and seeing where that's
52:01
going to take me,
52:02
SPEAKER_01: which is something I do need to sit down and do.
52:05
Um,
52:07
because as I said,
52:07
I,
52:08
I feel like I've published a lot very quickly this year.
52:11
And so now I've just,
52:12
I'm just taking a breather,
52:14
but there are definitely more things coming.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: I just need this, this last bit of the year just to take a breath.
52:21
SPEAKER_01: And then we will get back into it.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
52:24
SPEAKER_01: it's a mixture of feeling the pull,
52:27
SPEAKER_01: what makes sense in the world,
52:29
SPEAKER_01: especially now where we are after book six.
52:35
SPEAKER_01: Again,
52:35
SPEAKER_01: without trying to give too many spoilers,
52:37
SPEAKER_01: but there is a lot of building going on within the world.
52:43
SPEAKER_01: And that has to take a part in whoever's story gets told next.
52:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:49
SPEAKER_00: And in writing all this whole series,
52:52
SPEAKER_00: and as we can hear more will be coming,
52:55
what creative threshold do you feel you're crossing or being
52:59
challenged to cross?
53:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh, organisation, maybe, which is not a strong point of mine.
53:10
SPEAKER_01: No, just, I don't know.
53:14
SPEAKER_01: I am ready to find out what that is, to be honest.
53:17
I'm just really enjoying what Heimley has given to me so far
53:22
and what I hope it's
53:23
SPEAKER_01: giving to readers.
53:25
SPEAKER_01: And I am very excited to see where it takes me next.
53:30
I think it's a great image what you're saying that sometimes we
53:34
can linger in that world.
53:36
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to rush it.
53:38
SPEAKER_00: You're just playing with it, you know, see what rises.
53:41
SPEAKER_00: And I think that gets translated into the the feel of the books,
53:46
SPEAKER_00: you know,
53:46
SPEAKER_00: because it's been nice to see your,
53:50
SPEAKER_00: you know,
53:50
SPEAKER_00: since I read the first one,
53:51
SPEAKER_00: seeing how you're.
53:53
SPEAKER_00: You're growing.
53:54
SPEAKER_00: It's like there's more rootedness in each book that you're writing.
53:59
SPEAKER_00: Like the world that you're creating is really getting really fleshed out.
54:04
So I really feel it's a great example of being able to not just
54:09
skip from one point
54:10
SPEAKER_00: to the other,
54:10
but you are really lingering in letting the space of creativity
54:16
transform you.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: And we get to benefit from that.
54:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: Good.
54:26
SPEAKER_00: So we're going to be on the lookout for Christmas book coming.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: Yay.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: But are you ready for a little... Which is called Gifting Hope.
54:35
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, Gifting Hope.
54:36
SPEAKER_00: A perfect title for the times.
54:40
SPEAKER_00: When is it?
54:40
SPEAKER_00: Do you have a date when it comes out or...
54:43
I haven't set a date yet because I am just waiting on the final
54:49
edits back and then
54:50
SPEAKER_01: I can format it and the cover.
54:52
SPEAKER_01: And as soon as I should be getting them any day now.
54:56
So then I can set a date,
54:58
but it will either be very late November or very early
55:03
December.
55:04
SPEAKER_01: So do keep an eye out.
55:06
SPEAKER_00: The way time is flying, that's practically around the corner.
55:09
SPEAKER_00: So good.
55:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to it.
55:12
SPEAKER_00: A little Christmas read.
55:16
SPEAKER_00: OK, so are you ready for a little for a little rapid fire questions?
55:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm a bit nervous.
55:22
SPEAKER_00: Close this exchange.
55:26
SPEAKER_00: So these I'm going to ask you just go with your gut.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: But give it a go.
55:32
SPEAKER_00: So first one, are you, just think of you personally, your own experience.
55:37
Are you more of a jump in head first or do you like to take
55:42
things step by step?
55:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm somewhere in the middle.
55:46
SPEAKER_01: I want to jump in straight head first,
55:49
but then I get pulled back by all my doubts and insecurities
55:52
and have to think
55:53
SPEAKER_01: about it a bit more.
55:54
SPEAKER_01: Because when I do jump in, things usually go wrong.
55:59
SPEAKER_00: So there's a little caution here.
56:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:03
are you more drawn to adventure or to the comfort of the known
56:09
the comfort of the
56:10
known yeah be that good or bad yeah well i guess it goes with
56:16
the first answer
56:17
right there's a little yeah okay i need to test the waters here
56:22
yeah exactly
56:23
SPEAKER_00: Well,
56:24
SPEAKER_00: that made me think,
56:25
are there any other characters from the series that you feel
56:28
kind of reflected a
56:29
SPEAKER_00: little bit more who you are in facing change?
56:33
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't know.
56:35
SPEAKER_01: I feel like they've all got parts of me.
56:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
56:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they all dealt with change very differently.
56:46
SPEAKER_00: So I can see some cautious, some jumping in.
56:50
SPEAKER_01: Maybe more Kathy, the original.
56:53
SPEAKER_00: The original.
56:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she had a bit more of this.
56:57
SPEAKER_00: She had an even keel vibe to her that I remember.
57:01
SPEAKER_00: She could jump in, but she was also, I can see that.
57:04
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense, I would say.
57:07
SPEAKER_00: So when you think of romance, what feels most romantic to you?
57:13
SPEAKER_00: What's an expression of romantic to you?
57:16
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
57:19
SPEAKER_01: Support.
57:21
SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
57:22
SPEAKER_01: And that can be emotional.
57:25
SPEAKER_01: In fact, it usually is emotional support or just not needing to explain.
57:31
SPEAKER_01: The look on my face says it all and things are done.
57:35
SPEAKER_01: That is one of the most,
57:37
SPEAKER_01: I know it doesn't sound romantic,
57:39
SPEAKER_01: but it is one of the most romantic things where somebody just knows.
57:45
SPEAKER_01: They know you, they know what you need and they've got you.
57:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I agree with that.
57:52
SPEAKER_00: I think it's the whole I've got you is so potent.
57:57
SPEAKER_00: If you were to cross a magical threshold,
58:01
SPEAKER_00: what would you rather cross into a secret valley or a secret library?
58:07
SPEAKER_01: That's not a fair question.
58:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, I have to say Secret Valley.
58:15
SPEAKER_01: You could be on brand.
58:19
SPEAKER_01: But there is a library there, though.
58:21
SPEAKER_01: So technically, that's a secret library as well.
58:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good point.
58:25
SPEAKER_00: There is a library there.
58:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do think it's a tough, tough one.
58:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, book lovers, you know, tough choice.
58:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:35
And like I was saying earlier,
58:36
you know,
58:37
the name of this podcast,
58:38
Romancing the Threshold.
58:40
So when you hear that phrase,
58:42
Romancing the Threshold,
58:43
what comes up for you?
58:47
it makes me think of taking risks but about exciting things
58:53
nothing dangerous it
58:56
makes me think of expanding your experiences and your horizons
59:03
and yeah but again
59:06
SPEAKER_01: not in not in a dangerous way
59:08
SPEAKER_01: And maybe it just means thinking about it and dreaming,
59:13
SPEAKER_01: definitely dreaming of what could be what you want.
59:20
yeah i like that i like that yeah um okay well ella thank you
59:27
so much for stepping
59:29
through this threshold with me well thank you very much for
59:34
inviting me and like i
59:37
said you know i really loved your series i'm looking forward to
59:40
the next ones
59:42
But I really like the image of the avalanche that serves as the
59:47
threshold into
59:48
SPEAKER_00: love,
59:49
SPEAKER_00: belonging,
59:50
SPEAKER_00: transformation,
59:52
SPEAKER_00: acceptance,
59:53
SPEAKER_00: and all things that we're really hungry for these days.
59:59
SPEAKER_00: And of course, for all the listeners out there, you gotta get the books.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_00: I'll put the link in the show notes for the series.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_00: And thank you, Alec.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_00: You know what stays with me from this conversation?
1:00:16
SPEAKER_00: That image of Ella getting off the plane in Norway for the first time.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_00: Seeing the beauty and magic of nature all around her.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_00: in what her husband described as just the motorway.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we need fresh eyes,
1:00:31
whether it's a visitor to a new land or characters thrust into
1:00:35
a hidden valley,
1:00:37
SPEAKER_00: to remember the magic of transformation that is always available,
1:00:43
SPEAKER_00: hiding in plain sight.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_00: But here's what really strikes me.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_00: Ella talked about love as a choice.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_00: about how choosing someone means you're not your own entity anymore,
1:00:56
SPEAKER_00: and how that's not just loss,
1:00:58
SPEAKER_00: but an opening to gain so much.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_00: That's the medicine hidden in those troll romances.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_00: They're teaching us that the real threshold isn't the avalanche.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_00: It's what we choose to do in the aftermath.
1:01:14
Do we grip tight to our old shape,
1:01:17
or do we get curious about what new form is emerging?
1:01:21
SPEAKER_00: This is what I mean by romancing the threshold.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_00: It's choosing to linger in that hidden valley of becoming,
1:01:28
SPEAKER_00: to approach our own avalanche moments with the curiosity of lovers,
1:01:33
SPEAKER_00: discovering each other rather than strangers defending territory.
1:01:39
Ella's given us stories where being seen is both the price and
1:01:43
the gift of
1:01:44
SPEAKER_00: belonging,
1:01:45
SPEAKER_00: where the pause isn't empty but pregnant with possibility.
1:01:50
If you haven't read Falling for the Hidden Folks series yet,
1:01:54
start with Adjusting Focus.
1:01:56
SPEAKER_00: And let yourself linger in that liminal space where trolls can be hot and
1:02:02
SPEAKER_00: avalanches can be doorways.
1:02:04
And keep an eye out for Gifting Hope,
1:02:07
her Christmas book coming late November or early December.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_00: Until next time,
1:02:13
SPEAKER_00: this is me reminding you to go gently,
1:02:16
go boldly into the in-between with curiosity for what awaits at
1:02:21
the threshold.