Latest / Sutra Squad / Ep. 24 Sutra 2.16 On the Suffering that Can Be Avoided

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Ep. 24 Sutra 2.16 On the Suffering that Can Be Avoided · Sutra Squad

• Seth Barron: In yoga, the goal is to sense and to feel in order to become aware through direct experience of what is happening without getting entangled in words, stories, and drama. This clarity is instrumental in determining the most effective path of action. Hello and welcome to the Sutra Squad podcast brought to you by One Deep Breath. My name is Seth Barron. I am joined as we are every week by the superstar Sutra Squad, Sarah Page Hall. Hello. And Sally Moore. Welcome. And Sally, what is a word that describes how you feel right now in this very moment? Fluttery. Mmm. Yeah. Fluttery. I like fluttery. Yeah, that's good. That's good. What about you, Sarah Page? Well now I've got to get creative 'cause because I would say competition. You don't gotta do anything except be where you be be you. I feel good. I feel good. I feel really well. That's that's the most I'm gonna give you. I feel really good. I feel ⁓ a little like split and I'm trying to put back together. ⁓ like you know be feel like I'm pulled in two directions. But we're here right now, which is the place I want to be with you. 100%. ⁓ in in study and in s in Sangha and community and and in satsang and intentional coming together and in sadhana. And you know, this sadhana that we ⁓ that really is the the sort of seed that we planted that, you know, that brought us to this, to this podcast, to, to each other, ⁓ is a seed of sadhana, of sadhana, of spiritual practice, of of of, I mean, the whole idea for the podcast was actually like to keep our sadhana and keep each other in sadhana and be accountable with each other and then offer that back to the world in a way that might be of service. So ⁓ so it's perfect because it's where it is, it's how it is and it's what it is. And ⁓ and and that we're right in the sadhana pada of the Yoga Sutra. So ⁓ the just ⁓ to sort of ground us in like where we are in our study, we spent some time examining some verses in the first chapter, the samadhipada. And now we're getting into really some of like the meat of the second chapter, the sadhana pada. So structurally, there's four chapters or pada of the Yoga Sutra. I said the first, the samadhipada. And so and I always find it so fascinating. Like it begins at the end. Right? It begins by describing the if there's a goal or an end state or a resolution of yoga, it is samadhi, ⁓ transcendence, bliss, nirvana, enlightenment, yoga. And and after sort of spending that chapter describing sort of the at this high level, like what is that? Samadhi. we get to this this chapter where then Master Patanjali really gets into like ⁓ if if the first chapter is a little is sort of more focused on the what, the second chapter is very much focused on the how. And so we began by sort of this prescription for the essential practice of the yoga of action, kriya yoga, of tapas, vadhyaya, and ishvara pranidhana. And ⁓ tapas is like heat. Or ⁓ intention or austerity, and then svathyaya, the study of self, and ⁓ Ishvara Pranidhana, submission or surrender to something bigger than yourself, which also could be said is like a a deep practice of humility. And then we looked last week at the Kleshas, the sort of essential five obstacles to yoga, ⁓ which are avidya, asmita, ragadvesa, and abhina vesha, avidya, which is that ⁓ lack of spiritual wisdom or lack of spiritual vision or clarity, unreal cognition, story, or ignorance. and and it is the same source. ⁓ that in the in in the Buddhist tradition is also said to be the source of of suffering. That ⁓ it it shows up in the it's like in the noble truths of Buddhism that we all suffer, that the source of our suffering is our mis, our fundamental misunderstanding. From that misunderstanding of Avidya gives rise to the four others: Asmita, egoism, I amness, or that belief in separateness, raga, pleasure or preference, pain. tvesha or avoidance, discomfort, and abhinevesha, which is clinging to life, ⁓ which is the most subtle. And we're gonna skip ahead a few verses. There's a fascinating verse, and I think this is it's sort of related. It's at the end of the description of these of these Kleshas, we're told that they are resolved through a process of involution. And I always think this is really important to remember that like we don't resolve the obstacles through external stimulus. We resolve the obstacles by turning within, right? Involution is like a turning in on itself as opposed to evolution. Right? It's like the difference between an explosion and an implosion. So, like an involution is that like it's like The seeds have to eat away at themselves until they can be fully resolved. And then a few verses later is the verse that we're going to explore this week, which is the 16th verse in the second chapter. And it's not one about which there's a ton of commentary, but ⁓ but one that I know all three of us have found really fascinating in our own sadhana, in our own personal practice. And so I thought it'd be interesting. To spend some time with it. And it has three simple words Heyam Dukham Anagatam. Hayan dukham anagatam. So as we do every week, we're gonna take a moment to chant and be intentional. And if you like, or it's possible, maybe find a moment of stillness and find some length in your spine. Just notice your asana. Notice your seat. Right? What is the physical organization of your body right now? Even if you're moving, even if you're doing something else while you're listening, maybe just bring a little, let this be a moment where you can bring a little bit of mindfulness to whatever it is that you're multitasking. And if you care to, if it's in your practice, if it's part of your sadhana, you could bring your hands together in Anjali Mudra in the seal right in front of your heart. And you could again turn inward in that moment, a small point of involution, and just close your eyes. Take a deep breath in. And a nice big easy sigh out. Join me if you can or if you like to vibrate the sound of om. Inhale. Chanting Yoga Sutra one excuse me two sixteen. He ⁓ Heyam duka. Heatam. Three words and so much to say. Heyam is to avoid or prevent. Dukham is ⁓ pain or dissatisfaction. dukkha is said to be like the pain that arises or sometimes it's better translated. It's a little more subtle, but it's a a suffering. It shows up, by the way, in the locks and the keys, the sutra one thirty three. Maitri Karuna Mudito Pekshanam, there it is. Sukha dukkha. Punya punya, Vishana Bhavanatas Chitta Prasadna, right? So like pleasure and pain in that context, sukkam dukam. So here it's ⁓ heyam to avoid or to prevent or ⁓ Dukkha, satisfaction, pain or suffering, and then anagatam has not yet come or future. And so The the translations usually they all sort of swirl around the same, like from Revan Jagannath Carrera's Inside Patanjali's words. ⁓ the dukkha that has not yet come can be avoided. and the very classic translation from Sri Swami Sachidananda, pain that has not yet come is avoidable. And so I think there's like a couple of things that are interesting. Actually, before I say that, like Sarah Page and Sally, are there are there other translations ⁓ that like sort of stuck out to you? Because there's again, there's not a ton of commentary on this verse. It sort of tends in most of the translations that I looked at, it's just sort of presented as like, yep, avoid the pain that you can. good luck. As as one of my teachers says, literally, good luck. but is there another translation that ⁓ that that's worth sort of calling out as we're starting to explore what this means? Well, I was kind of giggling because we were talking about that at the beginning of you know when we first hopped on. When we I looked at this and I was doing I was like, well, of course I want to avoid the pain. I don't want pain. Yeah, it's like okay, that's it, good night. ⁓ but I do like this ⁓ and the light on the yoga ⁓ Light on the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali by PKS Ayingar. He said the pains, not just pain, but the pains which are yet to come can and ⁓ can be and are to be avoided. So I like the way that, you know, first of all, it's not like one pain. We have a lot, right? It's hard out there. And ⁓ are yet to come and he and he's not running away from it. There's no bypass. They are going to come. And they can be. And are to be avoided. And then he goes on to get the prescription. But that's that's the one that kind of got me tonight. Today. So I would say I got very hooked up on this word pain because I was like, pain happens, suffering is to be avoided. And so yay, Re Rev ⁓ no, Ruben Vasquez saved me because in his commentary, ⁓ he says Sutra 2.16, future suffering. Can be avoided. And then he carries on in his commentary: future suffering is optional because it actually can be avoided. He points out that there is a distinction between pain and suffering. Pain is discomfort, soreness, or an ache or sensation that you experience. Suffering is when you charge that sensation with emotion and keep dwelling on it in ways that generates distress, hopelessness. And helplessness. I'm just gonna go on a little bit because this one really got me thinking. Said the pain you feel is a sensation that offers potentially useful information. And he also says there's an important clarification to keep in mind. This sutra does not say to ignore pain, ignore emotions or sensations. Sutra 2.16 is not about becoming insensitive or unresponsive. Pain, emotions, and sensations offer useful feedback. Rather than trying to manipulate your sensations, it may be more useful to start by recognizing that whatever you feel is valid because you are feeling it. And then once you recognize what you're feeling is valid, then you can decide if any other action is needed. In yoga, the goal is to sense And to feel in order to become aware through direct experience of what is happening without getting entangled in words, stories, and drama. This clarity is instrumental in determining the most effective path of action. Will you say the last two sentences again, Sally? So let's see here. The goal of yoga? Is that in Like the last two. They were so good. It says in yoga, the goal is to sense and to feel in order to become aware through direct experience of what is happening without getting entangled in words, stories, and drama. This clarity is instrumental in determining the most effective path of action. So that's what really stuck with me, you know, and I I was sharing earlier before we started recording that ⁓ we're recording end of April, and ⁓ Dr. Edith Eger passed away yesterday or the day before. And she was the ballerina of Auschwitz, and she wrote some amazing books. The choice, there's another one, The Gift, I think. But she had this mantra, like she's like, we'll never maybe rid ourselves of triggers that the pain caused. But she had this mantra and I just wrote this down. I am here now. This is now. And I just thought, that's what I see. It's like pain will happen. Yeah. And then from here, let's not layer on. Yeah, I think it's so useful to take a moment and really explore the difference between like pain and suffering. because like I like the turn of phrase that pain is real and suffering is a choice. I don't like the experience of suffering or pain. but I think it's a little bit like of the way we sort of reconcile that like good thing like bad things happen to good people all the time. All the time. And there are pains that are unavoidable. You are in the wrong place at the wrong time, or that like our perception is that we're in the wrong place at the wrong time, because there's a karma factory grinding us all out. So like somebody somewhere understands the bigger tapestry of it all. But like I don't know if we're meant to understand it. I that's something I I question. Like as someone who loves understanding. ⁓ I've been challenging myself lately to like actually just in the moments where I'm like, why can't I figure this out? ⁓ that's a really interesting. I just connected the dots of something that I we were talking about earlier. Like part of what I'm s like I I have a challenging situation. interpersonally with somebody and like part of what I feel so frustrated with is I can't like intellectualize my way through it. I can't like fix it. And I can't like talk myself through it. And so like part of the suffering I'm choosing is like all that effort into like the understanding of it. Cause like it doesn't matter. Like right, it doesn't matter. I'm capable I'm a I'm a you know even in a professional context like I know when I'm being spoken to disrespectfully. Like I don't have to understand that. And there's something that was earlier in that, Sally, that said too, like, you know, we're because like the the as is always the case, like the way we understand these verses and this wisdom is so important because this verse is not about bypass. I think it's really important to like just like take a moment and like just really Connect into that, right? That like this idea heyam dukkhamagatam is not like it doesn't mean that we avoid the suffering by ignoring it or the pain by ignoring it or trying to numb it out. Actually, I think it's sort of the opposite, which is harder. The real avoidance is like the integration. That's an involution. As opposed to like a pushing away in a way that it's like, no, I can't like it, but it's not gonna go away. I mean, the the because then it's ⁓ the Carl Jung, one of my favorite Jung quotes, what we resist persists. Right? So much of the suffering of dukkha, of pain, is our resistance of it. And actually, there's like there's physiology around this too. Like when we're when we're in pain, our muscles often tense around the site of injury. And that only compounds the actual pain of the experience. If you when we like start to intentionally like soften at the point of injury, obviously every injury is different. And I'm not making a medical prognosis here or telling anybody necessarily what to do. But it's interesting to be aware, like when you feel pain, how much muscle tension happens around that and like what happens if you intentionally try to like soften into the pain and like allow the pain. It's a like is an interesting analogy, right? Like You think about, I mean, if look, if you practice yoga asana long enough, you're gonna pull something, you're gonna stretch something, you're it's just it's gonna happen. Your foot slips on the mat in a weird way and a muscle like tweaks out of ⁓ tweaks out of place. The avoidance of pain, I think that we're talking about here, is the integration of the actual painful experience as opposed to the dwelling into it, right? So it's like, so you you injure yourself. In Asana practice a little bit. And ⁓ hopefully it's nothing too serious, but sometimes that means you gotta like take it easy. This is actually a beautiful way to maybe this is I think this is I I didn't plan this, but it's good, I think. I hope you tell us. but like I I know, I like I was I was teaching a a series tonight where we did extended side angle and then I and then I revisited it so we could take it all the way to Bird of Paradise. I was making whole seeds. I know. And saying the plant will say to them, like it sprouts up into the beautiful flower of bird of paradise. And like admittedly, bird of paradise is one of my like party trick poses. Like it works in my body. I tend to be able to like do it great and it looks cool and all that. Right. ⁓ and for some people it's excruciating, and for some people, it's just like and now if you have a groin injury and when you're healthy or fully like, you know, at a hundred, maybe you can just like like. In the l different lineages of different sort of like sequences that can get you to that pose. And like in the lineage that we tend to teach, ⁓ you would take the pose like from side angle, technically side angle A, hand inside the foot. You would like turn the top thumb back, bring the top the back of the top hand to the bottom hip, and then the bottom hand is light. You would take the bind, then you'd look down at your front foot, step the back foot to meet the front foot, shift the weight onto the other foot, lift the knee to the shoulder. And then pull the hip underneath you, lengthen the tailbone down and extend your leg. Right. So you've got to bind like forward and around. And the leg is at like a beautiful, like, I don't about ⁓ I don't know guess the math of the angle. It depends on your body. Right. Now, I will full well admit that there have been times where I've probably pulled a little bit of my hamstring or maybe my SI joint like tweaked a little bit. And I've like used other muscles to push myself into a pose like that. I'm sure it did not help that actual like healing of that like little bit of tweaked muscle. So the avoidance of the pain was to would be to actually put my ego aside, take a block, lift the earth under my bottom hand and side angle so that it's not so much like I don't have to go as deep into my the stretch in the groin, ⁓ and let the muscle. Heal, like go easy. So like that's of like that's putting into practice the pain that can be avoided should be avoided. Right. The the and that's different than the bypass of ignoring the pain or just saying, I can't do this and totally disengaging, which like I'll admit I've also done too. And we see students do it all the time. They confront something challenging and they just like stop and they just like drop out and then they're like walking around watching other people. And I get it. Like it's it's real practice to stay into a moment of real discomfort. And it's very difficult. And so I don't mean to just like be flippant about that experience of students or be mean that in a disrespectful way. ⁓ every student is on a journey of their own discovery of where they, you know, where they invested in that ragand Vesha, right? The pleasure and pain of the Kleshas and where the dukkha, that suffering shows up. You know, and one thing I've learned too, like or I try to remind myself as an asana instructor, is like, I have no idea. Like I don't know what that lady, I don't know about that. I don't know about lady's problem. I don't know her life. I mean, I know that looks like her hips are out of whack. So maybe I'll walk over there and just be like, Do you realize that this place is like this thing is here and this thing is there? And I don't know, have you ever asked that question to a student when you're teaching? Like, did you did you notice like for if did you are you intentionally lifting your back heel in the warrior poses? And they'll be like, What? And I'd be like, you know cue when I say Like now, my inner monologue is like, how many times have you heard me say, take your right foot forward, press your back heel down, press into the back edge of back foot as you rise up for warrior one? Now, to me, I said that a little bit faster. I hope than I would say it in an asana class, although now I guess I guess I should be really curious about my words too. Because if I just said it that like robotically, then that probably means I'm saying it that robotically in class. And so then there may be that so the student isn't hearing it. So that's a good one for me. Filed. To slow that cue down. But even just like, like, are you doing that on purpose? Like, that's my favorite question when I see a student doing something that's like totally not at all when I'm cueing. Like, are you doing that on purpose? And they'll be like, what am I doing? And I'll be like, Well, like, did you like do you realize your toes are still tucked in upward facing dog? And I'm like asking you to just untuck them to try it out? See how much see if you could feel more length in your lower back? And they're like, ⁓ wow. Now. We are all pretty experienced, seasoned practitioners and know the difference between like untucking your toes and tucking your toes in a pose like upward facing dog versus a pose like plank, right? Your toes are tucked in plank, you could say. Like you're on the ball mounds of your feet. And in a pose like upward facing dog, most classically, ⁓ sometimes you might teach it differently, but like most of the time it's the tops of feet pressing down, untucked. And even right there, like, do I invest in the suffering of the wrongness of my students? Do I get curious? Or do I like do I choose the suffering which is like no one's listening to me? Nobody nobody cares about what I have to say. ⁓ versus like the curiosity, which was like, hmm, I did just rattle those words off pretty robotically. I wonder what would happen if I really slowed that down. ⁓ Sarah Page, you look like you w you wanted to chime in there. I do. ⁓ because it's I was just looking at ⁓ Light you know, Light on the Yoga Sutras by Iengar. He says it's pretty much just like and I love this. Past pain is finished. It's done, it's over. You know, you can't do too much about it. Past pain is finished, or it should be. Pain that we are in the process of experiencing cannot be avoided, but can be reduced to some extent. By yogic practice and discriminative knowledge. Unknown future pains can be prevented by adhering now to yogic discipline. And it goes on to say, and I love this, a yoga is a preventative healing art. You know, you can ⁓ and I I'm just gonna leave that there because I you know, yoga, it's a preventative healing art. We have all these tools. We talk about this, I talk about it all the time. I'm sure y'all do too. We say you have the tools. We have the tools. And so it's you know, we know what to do. We have the tools, we have the eight hundred books, the twelve thousand hours of training, we have each other. We have invested a lot of time, spiritual, mental, physical, and monetary discipline into what we do. We know what to do, and though sometimes it just feels really, really good to just sit. And the nasty of it, because then we get stuck in the rut of our rightness. The pain that we know that we feel sometimes is probably, I like what you said, ⁓ Sally at the beginning, one of your things, which was ⁓ one of your descriptions or interpretations. We know what to do. We know how to it will, it will, it will, it will. But anyway, we know what to do, we know how to handle it. And sometimes we just like the gimme. We like the the we know. You know, that somebody did us wrong. And our feelings are valid. That's what it was. And our feelings are valid. That part. That part. Yes. And so Because you're feeling them. So they're real and they're valid. They're real and they're valid. You know, Seth, what you were speaking to. It's it's not like what you're going through is not valid and it's not real. It is. I went through a traumatic breakup. It was real, it was valid, and I made a commitment. I remember on the first day. when that my partner had left. I remember going, This is going to be, this is going to suck so bad because I know the only way to get through it is to go through it. And I gotta feel it. I'm not going to drink it away. I'm not going to jump into another relationship. I'm not going to do any of those things. I'm going to feel it. And it took years and I knew it would. And though I felt the pain. I don't know that I suffered. The only way to get through it is to go through it. Go through it. And I I'm proud of myself. I'll be honest with you. The only way out is through. The only way to it through. But I just I really made the commitment to feel the pain. I don't know that I suffered. And that's a really that's an interesting kind of juxtaposition ⁓ between pain and suffering. And I like that you brought that up, Sally. I don't know that I suffered. And I think that there is what is pain, what is suffering, what is the difference. I felt physical pain. And though I don't know that I suffered. I had a lot of good support, people right here with me tonight still. My yoga studio, my yoga practice, you know, and I I did as much I got more tools, you know. I went to acupuncture. I went to Reiki. I did what I felt like I needed to do. And I think that that's what ⁓ Ayangar is referencing. You have the tools. This is, you know, suffering is avoidable. The next pain is avoidable. The thing about wrecking I really thought that was a great thing too, is that recognizing that what you're feeling is valid is an important step. I know for me, then often I just reach for a tub of ice cream. I don't want to recognize that what I feel is val, you know, and I just think there's there's not skipping like the stories and the suffering probably come from not pausing and recognizing like, I feel this. I feel it in my chest, you know, I feel it in my chest. Can I can I really give myself some compassionate space to feel it, to listen to it, to notice if I'm moving into future story or past story. You know, there is one more ⁓ I love she ⁓ from the secret power of yoga by Nishala Joy Devi. She just had one sentence and then no commentary. But I now that I'm thinking about the commentary we were talking about, 2.16, with this understanding, once vital difficulties become impotent. That's interesting. Like at first I like read it and I was like, it's just all she says about Sutra two sixteen. ⁓ I got it. Yeah. I got it. Page one sixty, I think. Yeah, it is. But it's like all she said, nothing more. And I I think for my working this out, I need a little bit more. And now I'm looking at that going Yeah. I love that too though, Sally, with with this understanding, whatever the understanding it but once vital difficulties. Cause isn't that the way it feels? Like in the in the moment of it all, it feels so vital ⁓ when my partner left. It just it just ⁓ and I'm just using that because I'm like on the other side and it's and but it it it was the most seismic it's the most seismic it caused so much good change is my point around it too. And and that relationship to me, I fought for that relationship. I worked hard on that relationship. It was once vital and now it is. You know, it it it's not but what it did lead to was my move, which I really am grateful for. I love being here. It led to a whole lot more growth. It led to, you know, working at a studio that I adore. And it also has led to an enormous amount of expansion that I would not have done. I wouldn't have gone to India if I was still in that relationship, which was the biggest No, so I had to go through the pain. It was awful. It's kind of like childbirth. And you don't know about that, Seth, but you can imagine. It's like childbirth. It is super painful, but you kind of gotta, you know, and you don't you're good. You're good. But you know, it's like it's so painful, and you gotta go through it. You have to to get, you know, to get the most amazing result. So and it's and it really is a choice, isn't it? It's a choice. Well, and you go through it. One breath at a time, one push at a time, whatever it is. I think that when you get your head into this might go on for seven weeks. I mean, I had this I ran a marathon after my divorce because I was like, I don't know, that just seems what you do. And I could have so bought in Is it what people can't just say that you can't either I've done that twice. I don't know. I was like I never ran too many. I was sitting there and I I mean, this is what's funny, but I said to myself, Okay, well, I need to either go to a bar or run a marathon. I thought those were the choices of working too. That's what got me to yoga too. I went to the bar getting divorced and I I have to I'm either gonna I'm gonna I said I'm either gonna keep eating my feelings or I gotta burn off some crazy. Yeah, but I've I mean my experience of it, yeah, I did the training, I you know, but the truth is it happened one step at a time. I am not a fifty mile club, run a marathon every week person, and you'd be skippy if that is for you, but it really is one breath, one step. One step and elephant. One bite at a time. ⁓ I thought I knew you. I thought I knew you. I thought I knew you. ⁓ now I snorted. Sorry. I probably talked about this before. ⁓ one of my favorite podcasts from Tara Brock. ⁓ I didn't even realize I hadn't made this connection until we're having this conversation. is she gives and you can search, you can look it up. It's on her podcast. It's it's ⁓ she to she gives this framework and she calls it three reminders for spiritual practice. And I now have listened to this episode enough times that I No, the reminders. I'm listening, Tara. ⁓ trying to be a good student. ⁓ the first. Is and I love that she also she doesn't say there like it's not a prescription. ⁓ in her in one thing I do love about her teaching and her style of teaching is that there's a real gentle quality to it. ⁓ even though she uses words like radical. Like, you know, her famous book is radical acceptance. ⁓ and then she does a follow-up, radical compassion. Very beautiful. And ⁓ and she says, but she in this case, this framework she gives is ⁓ three reminders. And the first is Awaken to your thoughts. Right? Like the experience you're having is a thought. And thoughts are real, but they're not always true. And awakening to your thoughts is the ability to sit in the seat of the seer, drastu, the observer. And look at those thoughts and sort of just be with them. Like just observe them, right? Awaken to your thoughts. And it's an awakening because when we're in the dukkha, we are in the misunderstanding. We identify the self and the thought. Right? And so awakening to your thoughts is that moment of saying, like, whoa. Sometimes to me, it's easy queen. Easy queen. Right? Easy girl. Come on down, Seth. Like, whoa. That's mean Seth talking. You know, mean Seth. And like, we don't need to. Like, you don't need to gas up mean Seth. He's good at that. You need to like step back. Need to, right? Like you can step back from yourself in your mind. ⁓ sometimes in meditations, like I've heard this one too that like you use the analogy of imagine seeing your thoughts projected. Like you use a visualization to actually see the back of your own, like the inside of your own forehead and see the thoughts projected there like a screen. And know that you are the one in the observer seat. The thoughts are just f playing in the mind in front of you. And I kind of like that. So awakening to your thoughts is that remembering, awakening to remember that it all that's happening is a thought. That's all it is. The only place it's happening is in your mind. Next reminder is feel your feelings. So like I've got a challenging interpersonal situation going on in my life and it triggers I was saying how like, I think in the past when that's been happening, I've just been like, This person sucks and they're so terrible and I'm so right and they're so wrong. And even though I am still having those thoughts, I'm really honest, they're still there. and though, like I keep asking myself, and the more interesting question, Seth, is why are you like what's going on for you that it's so activating? What is what is activating right now? Okay. So that's awakening from the thoughts. Like, I'm really activated. Those are just thoughts. I don't know what this person is thinking. I don't really know their. motivation. I have a lot of stories about it, but I'm not in their head and I don't know. I I know when I'm being spoken to disrespectfully. I know when somebody is blah blah blah blah, right? That I know. I don't know why and it doesn't matter. It actually doesn't matter. Right. Then what are the feelings? Okay, well, I'm angry. Ugh, that's like actually even hard to say. I'm angry. I'm angry that I'm being spoken to disrespectfully. And then I have somebody who's supposed to be a collaborator who is intentionally, seemingly intentionally, trying to be a ⁓ I don't know, what's the opposite of a delaborator? Right. And now they have a reason for their behavior, a saboteur, right? ⁓ sure, we'll go with that. That's true. Feels like it anyway. Okay. Now that's also just a thought. So what do I feel? I feel anger. I feel disrespected. But like I feel or I'm questioning the worthy my worthiness of respect. I'm questioning, like I said it like it, like ⁓ the situation and a lot of dynamics of it, like are literally like, you know, when you get a massage, this happened to me. I had like a great massage on Saturday, and this guy was working my left glute a little bit, and he got his thumb and he just like pressed. And he hit what he hit was my paraformis. And he like hit it on the nose. And I think I was like, I I'm sure I yelped. I was like, and it takes and I like firm pressure, but he hit the exact spot. And it feels like that. Of like the situation does that to me, of my inadequacy, of my imposter syndrome, of my inabilities, or like all those perceived things. So what I feel is an important. unseen. I feel it makes me that makes me feel sort of small. And it does make me feel kind of petty. Like now, those are all just feelings. And so sometimes even when I do like if I'm really activated, I'm in the moment I do this, I'll like stand there and I'll just say I'll just name emotions. Like these are all the emotions happening. This is how I feel. And you know, Sally, it's like what you said that like the feelings are real. And like what if we actually Told ourselves that we get to feel everything that we're feeling and that it's all okay. Because the question, and really the like unique gift of our human cognition, is that we can start to pull apart the stimulus and response and say, Well, I feel angry, disrespected, I feel small, I feel unimportant, I feel unseen, I feel ⁓ like all those things. Okay, I feel all that. How do I want to be? Right? Because I also, and I think this is the I actually even talking through this right now, I'm making a bridge because I keep I was saying, like, I it doesn't matter that I'm at work, what I want, like anywhere in my life, like the things I want to call in are Maitri Karuna Mudito Anupekshanam, which are the Brahma Viharis, are the four keys that unlock the heart from verse 133. Maitri Karuna Mudito Pekshanam Sukaduka Punya Punya Vishhayanam Bhavanatashitta Prasadnam the friendliness or loving kindness, compassion, joy, sympathetic joy with and equanimity or confidence in the face of pleasure and pain, happiness, sadness, vice, and virtue are the means by which we preserve the innate serenity of the mind. So you feel your feelings. That's the second reminder. Right. And then those four attributes are one way of the third reminder, which is remember love. And I try to tell myself, okay, Seth, like what is and I did this all weekend. I was in my head, in my thoughts, in this experience. And I kept trying to tell myself, just Seth, what is one loving thing you can do for yourself right now? Just one loving thing you can do for yourself right now. Like it's okay to feel how you feel. Don't make it wrong. Don't make it bad. Just feel it. Right? Like, and I think that's where it's like this discernment too, to really get into like. The pain that can be avoided should be avoided is the, and I I I mean, I've definitely spent more than a couple of moments cycling through it, which was like the pain and like the pain we're talking about here is like that suffering of raking yourself over the calls. And if you if by the way, if you know how to fully transcend that, like please come on, like please reach out to me, Seth at onedeepbreath.com. I would love to hear from you and please come and teach us. Because most of us, one way or another, f it's something that gets you going. That one thing that a friend can say to you. Another one of mine is ⁓ I'm sorry you feel that way. If we are friends and it it is like the it is my least favorite thing. If I if we are friends and I ever talk to you about like and we have a conversation about feelings and words and actions, and you say to me, I'm sorry you feel that way, just please know I will be triggered. AF. Big time. It is what it is what my ex-husband used to say to me when I was like, Could you like not be mean to me? And he would be like, and I we would have this whole conversation. And I would be like, Well, I'm just like, I would just appreciate it if you would like not be mean when you say things like that. And he would be like, You're so sensitive, blah, blah, blah. And then he would finally exasperatedly say, I'm sorry you feel that way. And I would say, like, that's not an apology. Like, that's actually not even an acknowledgement. Right. Of your pain, of your suffering. What is it that ⁓ the the the Buddhist the what of suffering? ⁓ this is something my therapist said to me ⁓ at one point in our work that he he challenged me to embrace the nobility of my suffering. Because one of the because the noble truths. ⁓ sometimes I love and hate how much you remind me of things I've told you my therapist tells me. It's what I live for. It's why I'm here. It's why I'm here. I should pay him a sniper. I would be very surprised. I would be very surprised if he listens because he's really s he has a great sense of boundaries. You know, I try to be allow to be anonymous as well, but like But ⁓ he does have he does come from a he he has a he has a contemplative I I think I can say he has a a str a very very deeply held contemplative practice and that's part of why I sought out him as my therapist. and and he reminded me in English we say they are the noble truths of Buddhism, that suffering is the nature of our existence. It is part it is inherent to the human condition and experience. And that the second of those ⁓ truths is that the source of that suffering is avidya, is misunderstanding, misknowing, spirit, like forgetting, willful ignorance of spiritual truth, of wisdom. And now that's just inspiring me to really sit and consider of like what, where is my Like what the suffering I feel, the frustration and anger I feel, like it like again, to be clear, the bypass would be just to be like, I'll just transcend and I'll just be nice and I'll just let her treat me like shit. No. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no. That is not the prescription here. Nobody says you should be disrespected or treated poorly. And every single one of us has the agency to speak up and say, like, please don't treat me poorly. I think that's also really important to presence too in the way that we talk about this. But the difference is that like you is to say it and let it go and mean it. Like and don't layer it. So that the s that the that so like I have to just get really curious from me. It's like where is that misknowing from me? Like what is what am I or what can I remember? Because the third noble truth is that every one of us possesses an inherent, a fundamental inherent goodness, the Buddha nature, like the good news. And that the fourth noble truth is that there was a person who transcended that suffering and we can walk a path. Like every it is every one of us is capable. Something I love so deeply about Buddhist teaching is that it's grounded in a fundamental belief in the goodness of everyone and everyone's capacity to step toward. their own goodness and reduce the suffering and by doing so the suffering of all sentient beings. So what the therapist, what my therapist said to me was to really seek to embrace the nobility of my suffering. Like could I really and what he meant by that was not like not like suffer more, but that like just acknowledge it with some reverence. Like And like actually, like the mantra of that survivor, this is I am here. This is now. Like I'm here. I'm in the and that's the that's again the tarot rock of it all, right? Like the like I am here. I'm watching my thoughts. I'm awakening to them. They're just thoughts. Right. This is now. I feel this physically. Sometimes I have to start in my body, right? I feel my socks on my feet. I feel the texture. Of this t-shirt. This t-shirt happens to be a little thin. It's ⁓ it's like I remember I just remembered it's one of my designery t-shirts and someone's wearing it for work tonight. ⁓ but like it's got it's got the hand of like a little bit more of a refined cotton and I can f feel the sublimated print of the image on it. And like so sometimes I'll literally if all like if I'm like again, if I'm really activated, I'll just start by like Either sometimes I do it out loud if I'm by myself. God forbid I ever have a boyfriend or somebody in my life who like has to deal with me at home again because I randomly do things like just stop and be like, cold tile under feet, pants on my knees. Like I'm just I like I'll just cause I've lived alone for a minute. So I just like do this or I start talking to my dog. I'm like, Mitch, this is what I feel right now. Where is it? Come here, buddy. And then I'll just say, like, okay, what can I do to just do one loving thing? Right? And I think like that's so much of what the verse is talking about. Sorry, sorry, Paige, go ahead, please. No, no, no, no. I I like that. I d I I'm because I've I've got like eight things sparking in my brain all at the same time. But it's I love thinking of nobility not as a bad, awful thing, but the nobility of suffering. I I just acknowledging it. Like acknowledging it and not trying to bypass it and not trying to say, ⁓ I don't feel that or that there's something wrong with feeling that. There isn't I shouldn't feel that or I'm wrong for feeling that. All those things. And then but one of the other things that I really love in the next sutra, they talk about you are what you say you are. You you bring into that action. So if indeed, you know, I have a new mantra, it used to be I'm not gonna say it out. Well, yeah, yeah. My mine used to be, and I still do this, are you who you say you are? I you know, if I'm gonna get up in front of people and teach this sacred practice and and do these sutras and try to live an eight limb path. Then are you who the hell you say you are? And then I got to feeling sassy a couple of months ago. And I'm like, remember who the F you are. Remember who you are. You are not a victim. You are not a failure. Remember who you are. And so I think a lot of those that is what they bring forth in the next sutra, you know, to just sort of layer onto it. But it's sort of like what you were saying, Seth. is I'm a failure, I'm a this, I'm a that. And then we tend to embody and bring forth what we say we are. So that's why it is so important to talk thoughts become things. They do. They do. And it's like, you know, we manage Well, and that's the awakening to it, right? Do you even realize what you're thinking about yourself? And it's it's awful when you realize and by your brain is a very, very powerful, powerful tool. It can be used for good or it can be used for really destruction to yourself. To real destruction to yourself. How many times have have you had that moment where you're like, ⁓ I knew that was gonna happen? And it does. And you know why? Because you bring it forth, you manifest it. You know, it's a it's a real switching of It's different than the and the intuitive. Sorry, sorry, finish the. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm good. It's just like I really feel like that that's it's that is something that has really switched for me. And I when you told me what he said, I was like, the nobility of suffering, that is something I really, really, really need to sit with and and think about it. Isn't awful. We, you know, just that it's sort of an onomonopoeia, right? It sounds like what it is, suffering. It doesn't have a nice, easy pain, suffering. It doesn't sound sweet and pretty and flowery. It doesn't. It sounds like what it is. And so ⁓ why do we want to bring it forth? It's easier. I'm back on this Dr. Edith Akers passing. And you know, it's funny because I thought I was so sad when I heard like her voice. I'm very attracted to the the Auschwitz survivor. I think it reminds me of my family. Her voice reminds me of my grandmother, you know, and and that's the fine line. Like luckily that doesn't feel like suffering, like it's a sweetness that I just really feel like her work and how she showed up in the world, it helped me. And so I just wanted to share a couple of things I saw. And I don't know, I think I I saw this one on Instagram. I think it's from at Meaningful Minute, but she said they were talking about her and her passing yesterday at ninety eight. And I do like this part of the Auschwitz survivors passing. Like I don't know, I think I get a little caught up in that, like that history, you know, the people Well, how close was your family to it? You made it like in the A lot of them some survived and a lot didn't. But they they the quote they put in there is that she survived the worst of humanity, turned unmagin unimaginable pain into purpose, and she never stopped choosing life. And to me, that sort of really spoke to this sutra. And then if I could just share two more quotes that I just wrote down because these two are by her. And it said, You cannot change what happened to you, but you can choose how to live with it. Also, like I just felt like she's speaking to this sutra the day after your cannot change you cannot change what happened to you. Pain is inevitable. But you can choose how to live with it. And then the last quote I wrote down is I just found this just a good thing for all of us to remember maybe. There will never be another you. May love lead your life. And I think that comes back to your divine nature. Like if we, I, you, all of us can remember who we are, the truth, yet in front of the ignorance, there will never be another you. You May love lead your life. You know, and we're born into love. Think about it, we're born into love. In some way, we're born into it. And so, ⁓ I mean, not not necessarily you know, I'm not gonna get into all of that, but we're born innocent. We are born we're pure. And I think my belief is we're born for a reason. You are you, I am me, we are us. ⁓ I agree. I agree. Well, that's what I was saying before about how like I I know I I think one of the traps of my stinking thinking is that and that's that's ⁓ sorry, that's an AAism. I know. That's used to describe like negative I know it is. I was just saying that's for our for our loyal, lovely people I just remember it on on Saturday night. And in AA it's like like when you get into your head and like that gets you back toward using, it's like sometimes the t the quick turn of phrase is you like the stinking thinking. I love to explain. I love to understand. And like, you know, I've really started to try and remind myself that like maybe it's just not mine to understand. Right. It's like it's like I've never been a super I've never been super interested in revenge. Like some people really like I but I have been very interested in justice. I'm a Libra. Hundred percent. Right. And my dad was an attorney. And one very beautiful thing I did learn from my father, who, you know, passed away 20 years ago now. And and I think about him a lot, of course. Like he was my dad, and ⁓ I have jewelry of his that I wear. And ⁓ but like he did instill an incredible sense of values and especially of like moral and ethical values. It's like beautiful to want justice, right? For people. Like it's that's a beautiful value. But I think what I what my work is is that is to like sometimes I have to remind myself, like, but it is not mine to like distribute or administer. That that isn't my dharma in this life. And the real justice, like the real, like, you know, people say like I I I I ⁓ if you're a yogi and you start to study this stuff, you're gonna hear how like Words seep into pop culture and they get a little bit like turned or like appropriated. And one of them is like when people say things like karma's a bitch or like, you know, or like like they use the word karma to describe that as in like when something comes back around. And like that's like not how karma works, really. It's not like it's so much more complex than that. And then try so what I try to remember is like, you know what, Seth? Like your dharma is connection. Your dharma is not justice. Like, as in, like, that's not my role. If I did, if I wanted dharma, my dharma to be justice, I would have pursued something very different in my life. I would have been an attorney. I would have been in law enforcement. I would have right. Or maybe social justice, like, I don't know what. But my dharma is connection. ⁓ I think in like ⁓ as a as a teacher, as ⁓ as a spiritual teacher, as a as a as a node of connection in in this li in this world and ⁓ that like I that's that's like a really good place for me to work on surrender and trust that like there's something there's a big the web of interconnected karma of cause and effect is so infinitely complex. And you can believe that again in the most literal Western scientific truth of like the butterfly effect, right? Butterfly flaps its wings in Beijing and it rains in Davis, California, Cranford, New Jersey or the West Village of Manhattan. None of us really understands why. It's why predicting the weather is so hard. Like you'd think we'd get it by now, but you like it's a like a chaos theory. So if that's the weather, how am I gonna predict the weather? And I'm pointing at my head, like right, the weather inside my cr my read of crazy brain. So like maybe I should just let go and just like have to surrender that and give that back to God. Like God will figure it out. I don't have to worry about it. I can choose who and when and how I want to keep certain people at what sort of proximity to me. Sally reminded me that I can always approach every situation with an open heart, even if that means that I take intentionally and cultivate distance from a person who speaks to me disrespectfully. It's not on me to figure out the divine retribution or the divine metering of justice as to who's good, bad, right, wrong in any circumstance. That's just not me. That's not for me. That's God. What's for me is my tri karuna mudito nupeksanam, right? And my other favorite verse that we'll get to, Vastusamiatita Beda Tayorvi Bhakta Apantaha, 415. Each of us perceives the same object differently according to our perspective, karma, experience, history, mind, right? The the the fundamental nature of of perception is subjective. Okay, we've talked about three words for an hour. An hour and two minutes and thirty two, three, so worth five, six, seven seconds. Amazing. Worth it. Worth it. So ⁓ my God. Every moment, every nanosecond of it. And so as we start to wrap this up, let's do a quick round of let's start with ⁓ let's start with teaching tips. So like all three of us give asana classes and like a lot of you do out there. And whether you're in front of the room or on the mat, you are a teacher. consider that you're a teacher and consider you have something to teach to yourself, maybe to others, even by the way you show up in in your presence, is it can be very powerful. so Sally, what's a what's a teaching tip for you that's based on this idea of you know avoiding the pain where we can or the suffering that we can that we can avoid? So I'm going with discover your s the clarity for yourself through your foundation. Just noticing what you're experiencing, you know, if pain Check in and choose a path free of suffering. And then I'm gonna really fuse this wisdom with Dr. Edith Igar. I am here, this is now. Inviting that as a mantra. I am here, this is now. I mean, like that's I am here, this is now. I am here, this is now. I am here. This is now. Sarah Page, what's a teaching tip from you? Where are you feeling sorry for your students? And not a letting them sort of sit in the nobility of their suffering. Where do you feel sorry for them? And like not not take it to their edge. Where are you where are you releasing the gas because you feel bad for them? And that's all on you. That's all on you. They may not be feeling any certain way. you're feeling that for them and it might not be true. So ⁓ just sort of notice just notice where you're feeling sorry for your students and are you feeling sorry for yourself. Cause it all comes back. The calls are coming from inside the house. Yeah. Hey. Hi. I love that. I love that. Need a teacher. Hey girl. calls are coming from inside the house, teacher squad. ⁓ I love I just I just ⁓ I am here. This is now. So my teaching tip is like one is like use every prop. Like use the props. The number of times I go up to a student who is like so struggling in a post and is like and and like again, if you're an asana teacher and this is the s I mean, talk about some suffering, right? I don't know. It can be anything like A forward fold. You could be teaching parangustasana, parahastasana, right? So padangustasana, fingers to toes, forward fold, hooking the big toes with your thumbs and pulling yourself down, parahastasana, stepping on your palms, getting the toes all the way to your wrist grease and pulling in deeper. Hamstrings are intense for people, right? Like now, I'm about six feet tall. I happen to have like like gangly limbs and hypermobile joints and long hamstring tendons. So when I'm really warmed up, I've got a pretty decent hanuminasana, I can on a good day, I can take my hands off the floor, right? And like like have a fully expressed split. ⁓ and then for other people, that's just like excruciating, right? So how many times that you see somebody like even in a more simple foe, just in like like in a like in that Patagustasana, like one of my favorite ⁓ modifications for that pose is just take blocks and put them under your hands and press. Like if a student really can't touch their toes, even if they bend their knees, like if they're really just like struggling into it, I'll walk over with two blocks, put them under their shoulders, like as best I can figure, and then say, like I'll try to place their hands and just say press. Like that's it. Right. That's great. props are such a beautiful way to like avoid suffering. Like, why suffer and like force yourself into a pose that like if you can't breathe in the pose, you don't have the pose. Right. You don't like have it. So like it is not pain, it is not like and actually as as as my other teacher, as as as ⁓ as Bethany Lyons likes to say, and I'm sure many before her, is that like we want to cultivate a practice with pain free range of motion and lifelong practice. Right. So like notice the difference between the sweet pain of like a good stretch and anything sharp. Anything that feels like you're getting in the danger zone. Trust that instinct of yourself. And don't lean out of discomfort, but definitely stay away from pain and use every prep on the wall. Go crazy. And sometimes I've actually taught, like if you've never taught a block class, you want to rock some students' world, right? Like Do the whole Sarian Namaskar B with a block. So you take chair, put it between your thighs, inhale, keep the block, lift the block up toward your groin and fold over your legs. Halfway lift, squeeze the block like crazy. Keep squeezing the block and jump back to chhataranga and jump back to bent elbows. If you're right. And then upward facing dog, keep pulling and lifting the block, press it up to the ceiling. Press yourself up and back downward facing dog and press the block up and back, like as if you're pressing it to the back of the room. Grab the block with your opposite hand and take one foot forward for Warrior One. Press the block between your hands as you rise up. Like you can keep going. But it's a way to like you force it and you force that. In my case, it's usually a little bit, it's usually a dude who just is like, I don't need the block. Like I've had guys, like big sort of muscly guys, who are like just flailing back there. Like, babe, here's a block. Like, and they're like, Yeah, I don't need a block. I'm like, okay. Bye now. You know, so that that's that's a long way. That's a long teaching tip, but like prop it up. Props are for pros. Inquiry. An inquiry of this week. Obviously we have a lot of inquiry around this. We're all in a lot of inquiry around this. Sally, ⁓ what's an inquiry that inspires someone to think about, maybe journal on, maybe just sort of chew on for the next ⁓ until they find our next episode. So the inquiry I've been working with is can you see the line between pain and suffering? What practices could you commit to which would allow for more space after you experience pain? And is there an area in your life where you are inviting in avoidable suffering? Could the wisdom of this sutra empower you to choose a new path after the experience of pain? Okay, I that makes me emotional. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yes and exactly. ⁓ Sarah Page, what's your inquiry for this week? Or this this verse? What are you getting out of your suffering? Your choice of suffering. What are you getting? What is it that it gives you? That was that that we hang on to it? What is it? ⁓ there's always it when we come into suffering, there's always something that it gives us. There's a sense of rightness, a sense of righteousness, a sense of being ⁓ victimized and some power in that victimization. And ⁓ what is it giving you and is it worth it? At the end of the day, is it worth it? And we just, you know. Something that we referenced just a second ago with Ishvara Pranadhahanava, it's give it all to God. You you're not going to change it. It's not going to change. You can't fix it. The more you fix it, it's like trying to get a knot out and it's gonna get tighter and tighter and tighter. It's just not going so just Ishvara Pranidhanava. Let it go. Surrender, soften, let it go. I love that. Yeah, I think it's really powerful, like What are you getting out of that suffering? Right. Like in my case, I'll just like, you know, I was talking about that difficult interpersonal situation. When I get out of it, it's like it's I get validation of like, see, look, I am right. You are, you are a jerk, Seth. ⁓ And I'm laughing, but it's also true. Like, like, yeah. No, I mean, it's like a little bit, right? Like, I'm I'm that's a little bit of bypass if I'm really real and a little bit more vulnerable. the the the the stirring over the situation what it gets me, both like the validation that like the negative trope is true. So I should keep thinking it. and it also gets me ⁓ Yeah, like it gets me, ⁓ it gets also it gets me convinced that I'm capable of fixing it. When it's not mine to fix. Well, and it's interesting because I don't know if it's from our Baptiste methodology, but I think the question that comes behind that often is what's the cost to you? I I I was just about to say it costs my freedom, right? It costs my presence. Because like there were times even this weekend where like I was with ⁓ I was hanging out with my with my bestie Eric last night. And I and I remember there was like a hot minute where I just didn't pay attention to a single thing he said. Cause I was just like, Like it cost me presence. And like and I And I and I love him so much and I care so deeply about like being present with him. And like I like, ⁓ so yeah, it's like it's that's really that's really good inquiry. No, no, I won't. ⁓ I think my inquiry would just be to ⁓ it's not as much an inquiry. I would just encourage everybody to like take those three reminders from Tara Brock and like really put them into direct practice. Like sometime between now and the next time you hear this podcast, you something will activate you. Like it just it will. Like your mind will spin off into unless you're again, like unless you're a realized being or you're like taking monastic vows and you're really that deep into your meditation practice, but probably something, even small, will activate you. Can you awaken from the thought? Can you validate and feel what you feel without explaining it, without justifying it? Can you just feel it fully, completely, wholly? And can you remember love? Right, as a way of putting as a practice to avoid the suffering, the pain that is avoidable, that is yet to come, instead of choosing it. Cause the definition of insanity, according you're right to Alan Sign is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Right. Like, ⁓ there's that there's that trope in my mind that I know and I love so much because I say it to myself all the time. So I'll just keep I'll just stay there and then I'll expect it all to be different. But I'm saying the same thing and I'm doing the same thing. So why why isn't it changing? Right? Like I think that's a baronism, like Baron Baptistism. Like nothing changes if nothing changes. Nothing changes. That wasn't a good tongue pop, but like nothing changes if nothing changes. Okay. Nothing changes if we don't stop this podcast. ⁓ This was a a real moment of ⁓ powerful presence for me. ⁓ And I so sincerely hope that by our sharing our experience and our wrestling with these ideas and this wisdom and our our intention to integrate some of this work into just how we're living out here in the world, ⁓ we inspire you to do the same and take one step toward the avoidance of ⁓ your own suffering, toward integration of your experience in a way that empowers you to live full and rich and complex and messy and beautiful lives out there. ⁓ so if the sound of our voice, if this content is ⁓ of value to you, please give us a rating, a review. If there's somebody in your life who might benefit from from from this, please feel free to pass along a link. And ⁓ we are so deeply grateful for your time, for your attention, for the placement of your space into our space. And we will be with you again soon with another episode of the Sutra Squad. I love you, Sarah Hall, and I love you, Sarah Page Hall. I never say Sarah Hall. Who is that? I don't know. Who's that lady? I love you, Sarah Page Hall. And I love you, Sally Moore. I would just ⁓ love you too. Love you both. Love you both. Thank you. All right. Thank you both. And we love you out there. Thank you for listening and we'll be with you soon. Take care. Thanks. Good night.