Latest / The David Rubenstein Show / Dr. Vivek Murthy

Transcript

Dr. Vivek Murthy · The David Rubenstein Show

0:02
Speaker 1: Dr VIVEK. Morphey is the Surgeon General of the United States,
0:06
Speaker 1: a position to which he was appointed by President Biden.
0:09
Speaker 1: He previously was appointed and held the same position under
0:12
Speaker 1: President Obama. Recently, I had a chance to sit down
0:14
Speaker 1: with Dr Morphey discussed a number of health issues affecting
0:17
Speaker 1: the United States, including COVID nineteen and mental health. I'm
0:22
Speaker 1: here today with Dr VIVEK. Morphy, who is the Surgeon
0:25
Speaker 1: General of the United States. Thank you very much for
0:27
Speaker 1: giving us this time. Of course, David, I'm glad that
0:30
Speaker 1: we're having this conversation. I am sorry that I can't
0:33
Speaker 1: do this in person with you, but as you probably heard,
0:35
Speaker 1: I did come down with COVID. I managed to dodge
0:37
Speaker 1: it for two years. Uh. I don't know what happened,
0:40
Speaker 1: but I guess my luck ran out. But is COVID
0:43
Speaker 1: still a major problem in the United States? People like
0:45
Speaker 1: me are still getting it. Well, David, first time, I'm
0:48
Speaker 1: sorry that you have COVID. I from personal experience, I
0:51
Speaker 1: know that, uh, you know, can can It's a serious thing,
0:54
Speaker 1: and even though you're vaccinated and everything, sometimes you can
0:57
Speaker 1: have these break through infections and have mild symptoms. So
0:59
Speaker 1: I we should the best in your recovery. But you know,
1:02
Speaker 1: as a country, here's where we are. You know, we
1:04
Speaker 1: have certainly come a long way in the last couple
1:07
Speaker 1: of years. I still remember very clearly in March, when
1:12
Speaker 1: more and more people were getting sick, when hospitals were
1:15
Speaker 1: starting to fill up. We're seeing terrible scenes from New
1:18
Speaker 1: York City in the months that followed UH, and we
1:20
Speaker 1: didn't know a lot about the virus, and we didn't
1:22
Speaker 1: really have treatments and much less vaccines. Fast forward now
1:25
Speaker 1: to you know, a couple of years forward, and we
1:29
Speaker 1: actually have these vaccines that are incredibly effective at keeping
1:32
Speaker 1: people out of the hospital and saving their lives. Even
1:35
Speaker 1: if you do get an infection after a vaccine, again,
1:37
Speaker 1: the likelihood of you having a really bad outcome like
1:40
Speaker 1: being in the hospital are dying from this virus are
1:43
Speaker 1: much much lower. And you combine that with the treatments
1:45
Speaker 1: that we now have available, treatments like packs livid UH,
1:48
Speaker 1: and you find that most debts in from COVID nineteen
1:52
Speaker 1: should be preventable at this point. So that is a
1:55
Speaker 1: long way to come from where we were. With that said,
1:59
Speaker 1: we are still losing several hundred people three to four
2:01
Speaker 1: hundred people a day to COVID nineteen, and they tend
2:05
Speaker 1: to be predominantly individuals who are not up to date
2:07
Speaker 1: on their vaccines or who haven't received treatment. So we
2:10
Speaker 1: still have more work to do, and especially with the
2:13
Speaker 1: winter coming, we've seen the last couple of years there's
2:15
Speaker 1: been an increase in cases during the winter. So that's
2:18
Speaker 1: why we want people to be up to date with
2:20
Speaker 1: their vaccines. We've got an updated vaccine right now, in fact,
2:23
Speaker 1: that his tailored for the new omicron variant b A five.
2:27
Speaker 1: We want people to get that and to make sure
2:29
Speaker 1: they have maximal protection when winter comes. Well, let me
2:33
Speaker 1: ask you, and the early part of the COVID vaccine
2:36
Speaker 1: COVID problem, people were dying in enormous numbers in the
2:39
Speaker 1: United States. I think maybe now maybe more than a
2:41
Speaker 1: million people have died in the United States, maybe five
2:44
Speaker 1: million around the world. Was that in part because they
2:47
Speaker 1: weren't vaccinated and the vaccination has made those who get it,
2:50
Speaker 1: like me um not as weak as we would have
2:53
Speaker 1: been without the vaccination. Yeah, so that's a really good question.
2:56
Speaker 1: So early on, before we had a vaccine, you know,
2:59
Speaker 1: people didn't have real protection against this virus. They didn't
3:01
Speaker 1: have prior infection with COVID nineteen. This is a new
3:05
Speaker 1: coronavirus that had emerged on the scene, but now thankfully
3:09
Speaker 1: UH those vaccines do give protection against the worst hot
3:12
Speaker 1: coms of COVID. And this is actually an important point underscore,
3:15
Speaker 1: which is what is the goal of a vaccine. Sometimes
3:17
Speaker 1: people think if I get vaccine and then I get sick,
3:19
Speaker 1: that means a vaccine didn't work. But it turns out
3:22
Speaker 1: the most important goal of the vaccine is to save
3:24
Speaker 1: your life, and by that measure, it's actually doing a
3:27
Speaker 1: remarkable job to keep the protection that people have. Though
3:31
Speaker 1: it's important for them to stay updated with their vaccines,
3:34
Speaker 1: and we've seen that over time that the COVID vaccine,
3:37
Speaker 1: like many other vaccines, that its effectiveness can wane over time,
3:40
Speaker 1: which is why I just like you've got a tetanus
3:42
Speaker 1: booster or you've got an annual flu shot, it's important
3:45
Speaker 1: to be up to date with your COVID vaccines as well.
3:48
Speaker 1: So the bottom line is these are life saving tools
3:50
Speaker 1: that we now have, the vaccines and the treatments, and
3:53
Speaker 1: by you know, depending on what calculation you look at,
3:56
Speaker 1: we have saved hundreds of thousands of lives in the
3:59
Speaker 1: United States own because of the vaccination being available and
4:03
Speaker 1: the vaccination campaign that was mounted to get people protected. Now,
4:06
Speaker 1: did you ever get COVID? I did get COVID. Yes,
4:09
Speaker 1: In fact, in earlier this year, in early two, my
4:14
Speaker 1: wife and my two kids and I all got COVID
4:16
Speaker 1: and we actually know how it happened. It turns out
4:19
Speaker 1: my daughter, who was four years old and was in
4:22
Speaker 1: pre kindergarten at the time, she ended up catching the
4:27
Speaker 1: virus from somebody in her classroom. It's really challenging, you know,
4:30
Speaker 1: if you're a family, especially a family with small children, uh,
4:33
Speaker 1: to prevent yourself from getting infected, it's worth trying, and
4:36
Speaker 1: we certainly did, you know as well. But end of
4:39
Speaker 1: the day, you know, you're taking care of your child.
4:41
Speaker 1: You've got a hold and comfort them when they're ill,
4:43
Speaker 1: and that puts to a red risk, you know, if
4:44
Speaker 1: you've got small kids, and many parents have experiences. So
4:48
Speaker 1: thankfully we were all uh, you know, vaccinated except my
4:51
Speaker 1: daughter at the time. There was not a vaccine yet
4:54
Speaker 1: for kids her age, but the rest of us were
4:56
Speaker 1: vaccine and thankfully we had a mild course of illness.
4:59
Speaker 1: But me you know even more respect, um, for this
5:02
Speaker 1: virus is somebody it should be taken seriously, because again,
5:05
Speaker 1: even with the protection we had, you know, we were
5:08
Speaker 1: knocked out for several days there. Now, did you tell
5:11
Speaker 1: your four year old daughter that she had infected the
5:13
Speaker 1: Surgeon General of the United States and that she recognized
5:15
Speaker 1: the consequences of that. Oh, to my daughter, I'm just
5:19
Speaker 1: her dad who she sometimes pays attention to when her
5:22
Speaker 1: mom's not around. So I'm not sure she's so aware
5:25
Speaker 1: of what I do. But you know, it was also
5:28
Speaker 1: to your point, David, it was just a very humanizing moment,
5:30
Speaker 1: you know, like I had been working on COVID for
5:33
Speaker 1: you know, the better part of you know, a year
5:36
Speaker 1: at that point, um, but you know, to to be
5:38
Speaker 1: able to go through uh this you know, experience as well,
5:41
Speaker 1: just giving giving even more understanding and empathy for folks
5:45
Speaker 1: out there who are not just getting sick, but who
5:47
Speaker 1: are trying to manage their family responsibilities while they're ill.
5:50
Speaker 1: Whether it's getting their kids, you know, you know, you know,
5:53
Speaker 1: it to school, whether it's making sure that they're managing work,
5:55
Speaker 1: whether it's taking care of elderly relatives. The ripple effects
5:59
Speaker 1: of getting sick are significant and uh, and that was
6:01
Speaker 1: certainly something that I have kept with me ever since
6:04
Speaker 1: I was ill. Let me ask you about what it
6:06
Speaker 1: means to be the Surgeon General of the United States.
6:08
Speaker 1: You're not a surgeon and you're not a general, So
6:12
Speaker 1: why are you called the surgeon general? What is the
6:14
Speaker 1: surgeon General's job? And one of the jobs of the
6:17
Speaker 1: surgeon General, and the reason in fact why I wear
6:19
Speaker 1: this uniform, is to oversee the US Public Health Service
6:23
Speaker 1: Commission Corps. This is one of the eight uniformed services
6:26
Speaker 1: in the United States government. It consists of six thousand
6:29
Speaker 1: officers who are dedicated to improving public health each and
6:32
Speaker 1: every day in their day jobs. But we also deploy
6:35
Speaker 1: them during times of emergency, so we send them with
6:38
Speaker 1: their hurricanes and tornadoes that hit towns, we will send
6:41
Speaker 1: officers there to help provide basic care, and routinely during
6:45
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen, we've deployed thousands of officers to help with
6:48
Speaker 1: everything from vaccinations to supporting health care systems. So that
6:51
Speaker 1: is one of the jobs of the Surgeon General. The
6:54
Speaker 1: other job, though, is to inform the public about critical
6:58
Speaker 1: public health issues that are rise and this could be
7:00
Speaker 1: informing them about how to prevent, uh, if you yourself
7:03
Speaker 1: from getting sick, how to manage an illness when it arises.
7:06
Speaker 1: Certainly with COVID that has been an important part of
7:08
Speaker 1: my work, but increasingly my focus has been on the
7:12
Speaker 1: broader issues of mental health and well being, which have
7:15
Speaker 1: taken a hard hit during the COVID pandemic, but which
7:17
Speaker 1: we're real struggle for a country. Even before then, you
7:20
Speaker 1: were the surgeon General under President Obama, and you served
7:25
Speaker 1: under President Obama and did a very good job. I'll
7:28
Speaker 1: talk about that in the moment. And then uh, President
7:30
Speaker 1: Obama left the office after eight years, and President Biden
7:34
Speaker 1: came in four years later, and then he asked you
7:37
Speaker 1: to be surgeon general again. Did you tell him you've
7:40
Speaker 1: already done that job once and why did you want
7:42
Speaker 1: to do it again? And were you surprised that that
7:45
Speaker 1: that they wanted you to do the same job again. Well,
7:49
Speaker 1: got it's an interesting question. I certainly had not planned
7:52
Speaker 1: to come back and serve as Surgeon General again. I
7:55
Speaker 1: you know, I had always told myself when I had
7:57
Speaker 1: the privilege of serving the first time, that this is
7:59
Speaker 1: a once in a lifetime and experience. I didn't know
8:01
Speaker 1: it would be a twice in a lifetime experience. But
8:03
Speaker 1: you know, the pandemic really scrambled everyone's lives, including mine.
8:06
Speaker 1: While it wasn't in a difficult decision when he asked
8:09
Speaker 1: me to serve, and it was certainly a big decision,
8:11
Speaker 1: had big implications for my family, certainly, and I was
8:14
Speaker 1: aware of that having served the time before. But I'll
8:16
Speaker 1: tell you, David, it was one of those moments where
8:19
Speaker 1: and the throes of a crisis that was up ending
8:21
Speaker 1: our country in the world. You know, I felt that
8:24
Speaker 1: it was my responsibility and our collective responsibilities to all
8:28
Speaker 1: do as much as we could to address this crisis.
8:30
Speaker 1: I was being given an opportunity to uh serve and
8:33
Speaker 1: hopefully to help, you know, at a larger scale, and
8:35
Speaker 1: I wanted to to make sure I did that. What
8:38
Speaker 1: was in the head my head at that time, David,
8:40
Speaker 1: was really the voice of my my parents and really
8:43
Speaker 1: the example that they had set for me when I
8:45
Speaker 1: was growing up, which they set again more through what
8:47
Speaker 1: they did rather than what they said. But they had
8:49
Speaker 1: always sort of taught me through their actions. And whenever
8:51
Speaker 1: your community is in need, it is our responsibilities to
8:55
Speaker 1: step up and do as much as we can. It
8:57
Speaker 1: might only be a little that we can do in
8:59
Speaker 1: that moment, but all of us have to step up
9:01
Speaker 1: and serve in some way. So let's talk about your
9:04
Speaker 1: parents and your background. Where did you grow up. I
9:07
Speaker 1: grew up in Miami, Florida, will move there when I
9:10
Speaker 1: was three years old. I went to public schools, you know,
9:12
Speaker 1: all throughout through high school, and my parents they ran
9:17
Speaker 1: a medical practice there that my uh dad mom had
9:20
Speaker 1: set up when I was in elementary school and uh
9:23
Speaker 1: and that sort of was a pivotal, uh sort of
9:25
Speaker 1: experience for me because I spent a lot of time
9:27
Speaker 1: there as a kid, and it shaped my excitement and
9:29
Speaker 1: interest for pursuing medicine later in life. And we're both
9:32
Speaker 1: your parents medical doctors. So my father is a doctor.
9:36
Speaker 1: He's a family medicine doctor. My mother actually did her
9:39
Speaker 1: degree in English literature. But we like to say that
9:42
Speaker 1: she's an inherent healer herself because it comes naturally to her.
9:46
Speaker 1: And as somebody who ran my dad's clinic for many
9:49
Speaker 1: years there, the patients and the clinic all came to
9:51
Speaker 1: know her and to trust her. So did you always
9:54
Speaker 1: want to be a doctor when you were in elementary
9:56
Speaker 1: school in high school, did you know that was your calling? Well,
9:59
Speaker 1: I was really in fired by my parents early on
10:01
Speaker 1: to become a doctor, and that's you know, for much
10:03
Speaker 1: of grade school, that was pretty clear that that's what
10:06
Speaker 1: I wanted to do. But towards the end of high
10:08
Speaker 1: school things changed a little bit. I started to get
10:11
Speaker 1: really interested in English literature. I got really interested in
10:15
Speaker 1: history and in economics as well, and I went to
10:17
Speaker 1: college thinking that I might want to pursue something in
10:20
Speaker 1: one of those three fields. So I took classes and
10:22
Speaker 1: you know, in economics and in history and was you know,
10:25
Speaker 1: really trying to get a sense of whether that would
10:27
Speaker 1: be my path. But what happened actually in between was
10:30
Speaker 1: interesting that shifted things for me, which is that my
10:33
Speaker 1: freshman year, my father called me and he said, you know,
10:36
Speaker 1: there's this philanthropist who is looking for a cause that
10:40
Speaker 1: he wants to support, but he doesn't know what the causes.
10:42
Speaker 1: So he said, if you have any ideas that you
10:44
Speaker 1: want to work on, there may be an opportunity for
10:46
Speaker 1: you to build something with his support. And I thought
10:49
Speaker 1: about it, and I had actually been working on some
10:51
Speaker 1: HIV projects when I was in high school and had
10:54
Speaker 1: been visiting India, where my family is originally from, and
10:57
Speaker 1: realized actually after high school that the crisis was really exploding.
11:01
Speaker 1: So my sister and I ended up developing an idea
11:04
Speaker 1: to build a education program around HIV in India that
11:08
Speaker 1: would be a peer education program. This is it's commonplace now.
11:11
Speaker 1: Is more unusual then, but the idea of bringing UH
11:14
Speaker 1: you know, peers together and training them to actually go
11:16
Speaker 1: out and and inform college and high school students around
11:20
Speaker 1: the community was novel then in India, but it's something
11:23
Speaker 1: that we decided to be wanted to try to build,
11:25
Speaker 1: and that was the project we ultimately we're able to
11:27
Speaker 1: get funding for UH. We built that, ran it for
11:30
Speaker 1: eight years, built chapters around India and the United States
11:33
Speaker 1: as well, and that changed my perception and my my
11:36
Speaker 1: feeling about what I wanted to do in the world.
11:37
Speaker 1: And it brought me back to health and to wanting
11:40
Speaker 1: to not only become a doctor, but to to build
11:42
Speaker 1: programs and communities that would hopefully have a large, scalable
11:46
Speaker 1: impact on public health. I assume you were a reasonably
11:49
Speaker 1: good student in high school. I think you were valegatory
11:51
Speaker 1: and of your classes at right. Yes, guilty is charged,
11:55
Speaker 1: and so did you want to go to Harvard? Was
11:56
Speaker 1: at your first choice? Which is where you went to
11:59
Speaker 1: the school? Cool reason actually came to learn a little
12:02
Speaker 1: bit about Harvard is I had my best friend in
12:04
Speaker 1: high school, Miriam. Miriam went to this, Uh, she was
12:08
Speaker 1: interested in going to this summer school program at Harvard.
12:10
Speaker 1: We all end up going to this Harvard summer school
12:12
Speaker 1: program between junior and senior year and it was a
12:14
Speaker 1: really wonderful experience. But that's what actually made me think, hey,
12:18
Speaker 1: maybe this would be a great place to come to
12:20
Speaker 1: college if I'm lucky enough to have the opportunity. So, uh,
12:23
Speaker 1: that's why I applied to Harvard. I was fortunate to
12:26
Speaker 1: be given an opportunity to attend uh, and I had
12:29
Speaker 1: a great experience there. And then after Harvard, you went
12:31
Speaker 1: to medical school at Yale? I did? I did? Yeah?
12:35
Speaker 1: And how did you happen to pick Yale was a
12:36
Speaker 1: place to go? You got tired of Cambridge? Well, this
12:40
Speaker 1: is this is also an interesting experience. It was you know,
12:44
Speaker 1: I actually wanted to go to Harvard Medical School because
12:47
Speaker 1: I was doing research there when I was in college
12:49
Speaker 1: and I had you know, I just decided for myself
12:52
Speaker 1: that that was the right place for me to be. Um,
12:54
Speaker 1: even though I didn't have exposured other institutions, and UM,
12:57
Speaker 1: it turned out I did not get into Harvard Medical School. Uh,
13:00
Speaker 1: and I was I still remember that coming home on
13:03
Speaker 1: this day and opening the letter and seeing that it
13:06
Speaker 1: was a rejection, and I was so crushed. And I
13:09
Speaker 1: called my father and he said, UM. He said to me,
13:12
Speaker 1: He's like, I know you're really upset about this, but
13:14
Speaker 1: something good will come of this because you'll be able
13:17
Speaker 1: to go somewhere else and get a different kind of exposure.
13:19
Speaker 1: This is going to help you grow. And I was
13:22
Speaker 1: fortunate to, you know, be given a chance to attend Yale.
13:25
Speaker 1: It became one of the most powerful educational experiences of
13:27
Speaker 1: my life, not just because of what I learned in
13:29
Speaker 1: the classroom, but because of these incredible relationships that I
13:32
Speaker 1: built at this community that I was part of, and
13:34
Speaker 1: then I continue to still feel like I'm a part of,
13:36
Speaker 1: even many years after the fact. So have you ever
13:39
Speaker 1: seen the admissions officer from Harvard Medical School and told
13:41
Speaker 1: him that he missed on the two times Surgeon General? Oh? God, No, no,
13:46
Speaker 1: I haven't, but I know that there's Look, there's a
13:49
Speaker 1: degree of randomness number one to admissions processes. And I
13:52
Speaker 1: always uh tell young people now who are going to
13:55
Speaker 1: school that you should never like assume that whether or
13:58
Speaker 1: not you get into school or not as a measure
14:00
Speaker 1: of your worth and your value because again, having now
14:03
Speaker 1: served on admissions committees, I know that there's a degree
14:05
Speaker 1: of randomness. They are good people who don't get in
14:07
Speaker 1: and there uh you know, and and that's just the
14:10
Speaker 1: way it is. And many people, when you're a class
14:12
Speaker 1: at Harvard went into something also important called private equity.
14:16
Speaker 1: You were never tempted by that. Well, you know, I
14:19
Speaker 1: was interested in in a lot of things, David. You know,
14:22
Speaker 1: after I finished my residency program, I actually ended up
14:24
Speaker 1: taking uh some time and building a company and technology
14:28
Speaker 1: company that I ran for with some colleagues for about
14:30
Speaker 1: seven years to help use technology to actually advance uh
14:35
Speaker 1: clinical research and clinical trials in particular. So I've always
14:38
Speaker 1: had an interest you know, in uh in building businesses
14:41
Speaker 1: and in building taking innovations that could actually help people
14:44
Speaker 1: and bring them to scale. Uh. So you know, who
14:46
Speaker 1: knows what the future holds, but uh uh and maybe
14:49
Speaker 1: one day I'll come get some advice from you, David.
14:51
Speaker 1: What advice would you have for a young person who
14:53
Speaker 1: says I want to inspire to a career like yours.
14:56
Speaker 1: Find a problem that you care about and try to
14:59
Speaker 1: help address it in whatever small way you can. You've
15:01
Speaker 1: been the Surgeon General twice, but what would you like
15:03
Speaker 1: to see as the legacy that you leave behind for
15:06
Speaker 1: future surgeon generals or further people generally what you've done
15:10
Speaker 1: with your life. Gosh, that's a great question, David. Um.
15:14
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what my greatest concern is. Where I
15:17
Speaker 1: hope to make the greatest contribution UM is actually more
15:22
Speaker 1: around the core set of values that we build and
15:25
Speaker 1: design society around in our lives around UH. And this
15:28
Speaker 1: is a very personal thing for me because I think
15:30
Speaker 1: about my two children, David, and about the world they're
15:32
Speaker 1: growing up in, and I, like many other parents, UM,
15:35
Speaker 1: worry at times. I look at the vitriol and the
15:38
Speaker 1: polarization and so much of the hatred in our world,
15:41
Speaker 1: and I ask myself, is my child going to grow
15:43
Speaker 1: up in a world where people are kind, where they're embracing,
15:46
Speaker 1: where they don't condemn my child because they made one mistake, UM,
15:50
Speaker 1: but they give them a chance and given the benefit
15:52
Speaker 1: of the doubt. We need to build a society David,
15:56
Speaker 1: that is firmly grounded in kindness and compassion and in
16:00
Speaker 1: of and we need to build our workplace culture is
16:02
Speaker 1: to reflect that. We need to build our education systems
16:04
Speaker 1: to support that. And we need to also support parents
16:08
Speaker 1: because they are really struggling right now. Is they seek
16:10
Speaker 1: to give, you know, support on a foundation for well
16:13
Speaker 1: being to their kids. So my hope going forward, if
16:15
Speaker 1: there's anything I could contribute to, it would be to
16:19
Speaker 1: emphasizing and underscoring those values as we seek to redesign
16:22
Speaker 1: our lives in society. We have a once in a
16:25
Speaker 1: generation opportunity David, in this pandemic, when people are taking
16:29
Speaker 1: stock of their lives and re and ask themselfs a
16:32
Speaker 1: question what kind of world do I really want to
16:33
Speaker 1: live in? We have a chance to go back and
16:36
Speaker 1: to say, hey, what can we tweak in our lives?
16:38
Speaker 1: How do we want to recenter our lives around a
16:40
Speaker 1: core set of values? Is our chance to build a
16:42
Speaker 1: better life and a better world, uh than we had
16:45
Speaker 1: pre pandemic for us, but also for today. What do
16:48
Speaker 1: you consider the biggest health challenge facing the United States
16:52
Speaker 1: and the people in the United States? You know, It's
16:55
Speaker 1: a great question. I mean, there are so many challenges
16:57
Speaker 1: we're dealing with. Obviously, we're still dealing with the ndemic,
17:00
Speaker 1: and we need to be make sure that we're prepared
17:03
Speaker 1: for the next one that may come down the line.
17:05
Speaker 1: We have a whole bevy of chronic illnesses that people
17:08
Speaker 1: are struggling with, from obesity to heart disease. But the
17:11
Speaker 1: one that's actually most on my mind, uh and which
17:15
Speaker 1: I'm most deeply concerned about, that I see as foundational
17:17
Speaker 1: to our health, is actually the mental health crisis that
17:20
Speaker 1: we have in our country. It turns out that when
17:23
Speaker 1: you struggle with your mental health, uh as certainly I
17:26
Speaker 1: have at points in my life, and I've taken care
17:28
Speaker 1: of many patients over the years who struggle with their
17:30
Speaker 1: mental health. But when you struggle with your mental health,
17:32
Speaker 1: it doesn't just impact how you feel. It impacts your
17:35
Speaker 1: physical health as well. It impacts how you show up
17:38
Speaker 1: at work. I can impact productivity, absentee is um in
17:41
Speaker 1: the workplace, and also impacts how our children perform in
17:45
Speaker 1: school and how they learn, and so however you cut it,
17:48
Speaker 1: I think of our mental health is the fuel that
17:50
Speaker 1: allows us to show up for our family and friends
17:53
Speaker 1: for you know, our community, and when our mental health
17:56
Speaker 1: is negatively impacted, it compromises, uh, you know, all those fronts,
18:01
Speaker 1: and that's what we're dealing with right now. You know,
18:02
Speaker 1: if you look at the numbers, uh, David, they're they're
18:05
Speaker 1: really staggering, especially among youth, you know, right. You know,
18:08
Speaker 1: if you look at the population overall, about five of
18:11
Speaker 1: people in twenty had suicidal ideations, they contemplated taking their
18:16
Speaker 1: own life. You look at kids in particular, and you
18:19
Speaker 1: see that there was a fifty seven percent increase in
18:21
Speaker 1: the suicide rate in the ten years preceding the pandemic,
18:25
Speaker 1: and things have gotten more challenging for many kids now.
18:27
Speaker 1: When I worked in the White House for President Carter,
18:30
Speaker 1: his wife roseland Carter headed a mental health task force,
18:34
Speaker 1: and it was seen at the time as somewhat unusual
18:37
Speaker 1: for a first lady to be interested in that subject,
18:40
Speaker 1: and in part she had always been interested in it,
18:42
Speaker 1: and she recognized her was a stigma attached to mental health.
18:46
Speaker 1: Now we're forty five years later. But do you think
18:49
Speaker 1: there's still a stigma attached to mental health as opposed
18:52
Speaker 1: to physical health problems? Well? I do, David. I think
18:56
Speaker 1: It's gotten better, certainly than it was years ago, but
19:00
Speaker 1: I still see that stigma all the time. I see
19:03
Speaker 1: it one in the conversations I have with people, especially
19:06
Speaker 1: it's a stronger stigma in my generation and older generations.
19:10
Speaker 1: Younger generations are less affected by it, but there too,
19:13
Speaker 1: I still see a reluctance to talk about uh, you know,
19:17
Speaker 1: needing help and about being a bullied or being the
19:19
Speaker 1: victim of abuse, which contributes to mental health struggles. But
19:23
Speaker 1: the other piece I think it's important is it's not
19:25
Speaker 1: just in our words and actions that I see that stigma.
19:28
Speaker 1: I see it actually structurally as well. You look at
19:30
Speaker 1: how we reimburse for mental health care in in our country,
19:34
Speaker 1: and despite passing in two thousand and eight a mental
19:37
Speaker 1: health parity law, that law has been unevenly enforced and
19:41
Speaker 1: it needs to be stronger. So it's harder for people
19:43
Speaker 1: to actually get mental health care in our system than
19:46
Speaker 1: it is for them to get you know, care for
19:48
Speaker 1: their physical health issues. So we we still have a
19:50
Speaker 1: long way to go to close that gap. Are there
19:52
Speaker 1: mental health problems with people at work? In other words, um,
19:56
Speaker 1: if you're working remotely, are you going to be more
19:59
Speaker 1: lone and is that going to cause a bigger problem?
20:01
Speaker 1: And do you think it's better for the mental health
20:03
Speaker 1: of people to actually be coming back to the offices
20:05
Speaker 1: and so forth. Oh, this is such a good question.
20:08
Speaker 1: And I do think that our workplaces have a really
20:11
Speaker 1: powerful effect on our mental health and well being. It's
20:13
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I just issued a Surgeon General's
20:15
Speaker 1: Framework on Workplace Mental Health and well Being because right now,
20:19
Speaker 1: you know, almost eighty percent of people are saying there's
20:21
Speaker 1: some aspect of the workplace that is contributing negatively to
20:24
Speaker 1: their mental health and well being. But in around people
20:27
Speaker 1: actually want to find a workplace that supports mental health.
20:30
Speaker 1: So this is our chance to really figure out how
20:33
Speaker 1: to make workplaces engines for mental health and well being.
20:35
Speaker 1: And I've laid out a strategy for how to do that.
20:38
Speaker 1: But when it comes to working from home, this is
20:40
Speaker 1: an important consideration. There's some benefits to people from working
20:43
Speaker 1: from home. Uh, they can actually be there more for
20:46
Speaker 1: their family. They can many people can actually be home
20:49
Speaker 1: for for dinner time or drop their kids off from school.
20:52
Speaker 1: They're not spending as much time commuting, they can have
20:54
Speaker 1: more time with family and friends. That's an important positive
20:57
Speaker 1: on the downside, when you know it might it's harder,
21:00
Speaker 1: I think, to connect with your coworkers when you're not
21:03
Speaker 1: having some in person time. So there's a balance to
21:06
Speaker 1: be struck here, and what I suggest that workplaces you
21:08
Speaker 1: often is to have conversations with your employees about how
21:12
Speaker 1: to strike that balance, about how to have some time
21:14
Speaker 1: where they may be able to gather in person, to
21:17
Speaker 1: to collaborate, to come to no one each other more deeply,
21:19
Speaker 1: to build stronger working relationships that in person time is invaluable.
21:23
Speaker 1: But this is not black and white, you know, Finding
21:26
Speaker 1: that right balance is important because we know when people
21:28
Speaker 1: are satisfying, fulfilled outside of work, it has a huge
21:31
Speaker 1: impact positive impact on their mental health, and that positively
21:34
Speaker 1: impacts their productivity and their creativity in the workplace. So
21:37
Speaker 1: it's a win win. I'm part of the baby boomer generation,
21:41
Speaker 1: and this generation is now increasingly dealing with problems relating
21:44
Speaker 1: to Alzheimer's dimension and so forth. Not particularly my age,
21:49
Speaker 1: but maybe some people my age even younger, but obviously
21:52
Speaker 1: in their late seventies, eighties, and nineties, More and more
21:54
Speaker 1: we're reading about Alzheimer's. Is this uh an epidemic that
21:58
Speaker 1: you can't really deal anything about or is it something
22:01
Speaker 1: we could deal with in some way. It's the real
22:04
Speaker 1: challenge for a lot of families, mine included. You know,
22:06
Speaker 1: I have a ninety year old grandmother at home who's
22:09
Speaker 1: struggling with dementia, and providing care for her has been
22:13
Speaker 1: a real challenge. And from my family, we love her dearly,
22:15
Speaker 1: we want to be there for her, but where it's
22:17
Speaker 1: painful for us to see the told dementia has taken
22:19
Speaker 1: on her. Uh So this is rightfully uh you know,
22:23
Speaker 1: a concern for for families across the country. We're investing
22:26
Speaker 1: a lot in studying dementia to not just Alzheimer's but
22:29
Speaker 1: other forms of demensia, to understand what's driving it. But
22:32
Speaker 1: very interestingly, there's also uh some research that's taking place,
22:36
Speaker 1: lifestyle research, if you will, on the impact of diet,
22:40
Speaker 1: of social connection, of physical activity, and sleep on dementia
22:45
Speaker 1: as well. Dean Ornish, professor at the University of California,
22:48
Speaker 1: San Francisco, has been actually one of the key folks
22:52
Speaker 1: you know, who has been leading some of that research
22:54
Speaker 1: on the impact of lifestyle and dementia. Uh. And you know,
22:56
Speaker 1: this is a promising area. But I certainly think this
22:59
Speaker 1: is we should expect, it should be this is gonna
23:01
Speaker 1: be concerned for families across America in the future, and
23:04
Speaker 1: just keeping a mind it's not just about the people
23:06
Speaker 1: who are impacted by dementia, it's about their families as well.
23:09
Speaker 1: It impacts when you look at like what pulls people
23:12
Speaker 1: away from work, what makes it harder for them to
23:15
Speaker 1: be there for their community. It's often caregiving responsibilities, and
23:19
Speaker 1: the caregiver burnout crisis in America is real and dementia
23:22
Speaker 1: is a big part of that. For a young person
23:24
Speaker 1: who says I want to be the next Surgeon General
23:26
Speaker 1: of the United States or someday grew up to resurge
23:28
Speaker 1: in general, what advice would you have for a young
23:31
Speaker 1: person who says I want to aspire to a career
23:33
Speaker 1: like yours. What would you say, go to medical school,
23:36
Speaker 1: um do what find a problem that you care about,
23:40
Speaker 1: and try to help address it in whatever small way
23:43
Speaker 1: you can, and don't be limited by the amount of
23:45
Speaker 1: training you have or the experience that you have. You know,
23:48
Speaker 1: in a lot of times, what I found early in
23:50
Speaker 1: life is when I began my first nonprofit organization, I
23:53
Speaker 1: was I was seventeen years old. At the time, I
23:56
Speaker 1: didn't know a lot about a whole lot of things,
23:59
Speaker 1: and I made a lot of mis stakes. Uh Is
24:01
Speaker 1: my sister and I tried to build this entity, but
24:03
Speaker 1: we learned a lot along the way, and what we
24:05
Speaker 1: lacked in experience and an education, we made up for
24:08
Speaker 1: an enthusiasm and in a willingness to learn. And so
24:12
Speaker 1: I would just encourage young people to look for find
24:14
Speaker 1: a problem you really care about, and start trying to
24:17
Speaker 1: address in whatever small way you can. Maybe it's on
24:19
Speaker 1: your own, maybe it's in the community organization, but start
24:22
Speaker 1: trying to help right away. Don't wait until you're done
24:25
Speaker 1: with your education. Thanks for listening to hear more of
24:28
Speaker 1: my interviews. You can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple,
24:33
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen.