Latest / Inside Politics / Labor’s tax changes hit the property market, will a Liberal ‘rebrand’ turn the party around?

Transcript

Labor’s tax changes hit the property market, will a Liberal ‘rebrand’ turn the party around? · Inside Politics

• 0:00
  S1: I'm Jacqueline Maley, and you're listening to Inside Politics from
• 0:03
  S1: the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
• 0:07
  S1: Our chief political correspondent, Paul Satchell, is still being a
• 0:10
  S1: super fan overseas with the soccer World Cup. But that's
• 0:13
  S1: okay because we have in his stead two of our
• 0:16
  S1: Canberra bureau superstars. And first up, we have Shane Wright,
• 0:20
  S1: who of course is our chief economics correspondent or as
• 0:22
  S1: we know him on the podcast, the special guest star, Shane. Hello.
• 0:27
  S2: I feel like for the World Cup, there's been so
• 0:29
  S2: many great goals scored by substitutions late in the game,
• 0:34
  S2: myself and Natasha who's coming up super subs. That's let's
• 0:38
  S2: lean into this whole analogy. Yeah. Goalkeeper. Goalkeeper. Jackie.
• 0:42
  S1: Yeah. Okay. I've got the big the big gloves on
• 0:45
  S1: and I'm ready to go now. Shane the government's capital
• 0:49
  S1: gains tax and negative gearing changes as per the federal
• 0:52
  S1: budget in May are now legislated. They're done. They're delivered.
• 0:55
  S1: They're law. Law, as Paul Keating would say. So the
• 0:59
  S1: government is just riding out the criticism and the consequences.
• 1:02
  S1: And this week we have had some fresh data on
• 1:04
  S1: property prices to sort of, you know, very early sort
• 1:07
  S1: of information about how these changes are hitting the property market.
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  S1: What did that data show?
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  S2: So the best stuff we had was from totality, which
• 1:16
  S2: has been which tracks home values. And their figures for
• 1:21
  S2: June show total dwelling values, which is houses and units
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  S2: fell by 0.4 in June, which is the biggest fall
• 1:31
  S2: in about three years.
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  S1: That's over over the entirety of Australia. So not the.
• 1:36
  S2: Entirety of Australia, but it is a clear Sydney Melbourne
• 1:40
  S2: story because the values in Sydney have been falling from
• 1:44
  S2: about well, they were they were flat in January and
• 1:48
  S2: they started falling from there. Melbourne has been easing since
• 1:52
  S2: about September. Sydney prices values are still higher than they
• 1:56
  S2: were this time last year. Melbourne is just a tad under. But.
• 2:00
  S2: And it's a big but if I went to Perth.
• 2:04
  S2: Perth's house values are still are 24% higher than they
• 2:07
  S2: were a year ago.
• 2:08
  S1: Yeah, right.
• 2:09
  S2: The Perth market has been out of control. Brisbane not
• 2:12
  S2: all that far behind over the last 12 months. House
• 2:16
  S2: values there up a very chunky 17%.
• 2:19
  S1: Yeah right. So if you're trying to get into those
• 2:21
  S1: markets in those cities it would be almost impossible. Well,
• 2:23
  S1: it would be impossible if you're just on an ordinary
• 2:25
  S1: salary to outpace that kind of exponential growth.
• 2:29
  S2: Well, we also got some separate figures from the Housing
• 2:31
  S2: Industry Association this week. They they track housing unaffordable unaffordability,
• 2:36
  S2: I think is the best way to describe the property market.
• 2:39
  S2: It has never been more unaffordable to get into the
• 2:43
  S2: nation's property market. I'll put it this way. In both
• 2:46
  S2: Sydney and Brisbane, you need 2.1 times average incomes to
• 2:53
  S2: buy a house. Now I'm good at maths and I go, okay,
• 2:57
  S2: so if it's a couple and they're both on average incomes,
• 3:01
  S2: that's two, you're still short of being able to buy
• 3:04
  S2: an average house in either Sydney or Melbourne.
• 3:08
  S1: So you need to, you need to be a higher
• 3:09
  S1: income earning couple basically to, to buy a house in
• 3:13
  S1: Sydney or Melbourne. Yeah.
• 3:14
  S2: That's right. And be prepared to take on a mortgage.
• 3:17
  S2: That's look me, my my dog Coco and your good self.
• 3:22
  S2: We couldn't jump over even if we were helping each
• 3:24
  S2: other over. It's. It is beyond silly where the average
• 3:28
  S2: New South Wales mortgage is $860,000 nationwide, it's $735,000. You
• 3:38
  S2: say it fast enough, you go, oh yeah, that's. You
• 3:41
  S2: can get by. But no, no, we we've really. Right
• 3:44
  S2: royally rogered the property system for, you know, 3 or
• 3:48
  S2: 4 decades. Well done. Us, well done us well.
• 3:50
  S1: So nonetheless, there is a lot of scaremongering around, particularly
• 3:53
  S1: in some publications which we won't name, but they're not ours. Um,
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  S1: about this drop in prices. And also there's other data
• 4:00
  S1: that shows, particularly in Sydney and Melbourne markets, that people
• 4:03
  S1: that auction clearance rates are really dropping off a cliff.
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  S1: What do you think about that scaremongering. Should should we
• 4:10
  S1: be worried. I mean, isn't there something in the argument that,
• 4:12
  S1: like so many Australians have built up their wealth in
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  S1: property and it is their one source of income and
• 4:19
  S1: a possible capital gain down the track. And we should
• 4:23
  S1: be worried if that source of wealth is sort of
• 4:25
  S1: looking pretty shaky.
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  S2: Yeah. Um, look, I'm we've lost say Sydney, Sydney prices,
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  S2: Melbourne prices down around 4%. That takes you back to
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  S2: where we were last year. Not even last year. Sorry.
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  S2: About eight months ago at a maximum. So all a
• 4:42
  S2: bit of perspective. There's been and this has been interesting.
• 4:45
  S2: The Liberal Party has been trying to pick up on
• 4:47
  S2: negative negative equity, which I'm hoping most people understand is
• 4:52
  S2: the concept that I owe more on my home than
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  S2: it's worth. Yep. Just four weeks ago, the governor of
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  S2: the reserve Bank, Michelle Bullock, was asked this question. She
• 5:02
  S2: said it does practically does not exist in this country. Mhm.
• 5:06
  S2: So if I go back to 2019, after the Sydney
• 5:10
  S2: Sydney dwelling values had fallen by 15% over about 18
• 5:17
  S2: to 20 months, people have forgotten all this happens. Uh,
• 5:21
  S2: the about 2% of people of home owners in Sydney
• 5:25
  S2: in the country had negative equity. And last I checked,
• 5:30
  S2: the world did not fall apart. And negative equity is
• 5:33
  S2: a real issue only if you are forced to sell
• 5:36
  S2: your home. And forced home selling comes through mass unemployment.
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  S2: That is the biggest predictor of it. And the unemployment
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  S2: rate is four and 4.4%. Record number of people in
• 5:47
  S2: work and a record share of the population. Now, to
• 5:50
  S2: go to your further point about a property market falling apart.
• 5:55
  S2: This country does have a a telling example of what
• 5:59
  S2: happens when the property market absolutely craters. We have to
• 6:03
  S2: go back to the 1890s and I know I'm old,
• 6:05
  S2: but it even predates me. Jack Melbourne was the largest
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  S2: city in the country, the biggest financial centre, and it's
• 6:12
  S2: its financial sector. And it's an overexuberance in the property
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  S2: market led to an almighty crash in the Melbourne property market.
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  S2: It precipitated the 1890s depression. Melbourne did not recover from
• 6:27
  S2: that really until after World War One. It was a
• 6:30
  S2: reason Sydney overtook Melbourne as the nation's largest capital, but
• 6:34
  S2: the housing market collapsed by about 50%. And I've yet
• 6:37
  S2: to see anyone saying that Sydney prices are about to
• 6:42
  S2: collapse by 50% or by 40% in Melbourne. And if
• 6:45
  S2: if they did, I can guarantee you the reserve Bank
• 6:48
  S2: would be cutting interest rates to prop up the. The
• 6:51
  S2: overall economy if that was to come to pass.
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  S1: Mhm. Nonetheless, I mean, I just wonder about the messaging
• 6:57
  S1: on this from the government in particular. And the coalition
• 6:59
  S1: has been trying to tease the government out about this
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  S1: and has been asking them a lot of questions about
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  S1: this in Question Time. But they won't they won't answer
• 7:07
  S1: the question, did you want property prices to fall? Was
• 7:10
  S1: that the intent of this policy? They will not answer
• 7:13
  S1: that question. And that sort of makes me wonder if
• 7:15
  S1: they won't answer that question. What was the intent of
• 7:18
  S1: this policy?
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  S2: They're scaredy cats.
• 7:20
  S1: Yeah.
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  S2: And it's interesting because, um, we had a resolve poll,
• 7:25
  S2: which we asked this very question just two weeks ago.
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  S2: More than half of those who responded, 1800, uh, person
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  S2: survey said fine. With house prices falling, the number of
• 7:38
  S2: the proportion of people said I'm not happy was 10%.
• 7:42
  S1: Yeah. Right.
• 7:42
  S2: Like, and so there's this, there's this whole mindset that, oh,
• 7:46
  S2: Australians don't want house prices to go down. But I
• 7:49
  S2: think we may have got to. I'm saying this because, uh,
• 7:53
  S2: Sky news this week actually had the same question and
• 7:57
  S2: got almost exactly the same result. Right. So I'm just
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  S2: wondering if the political class, uh, has got this searing
• 8:04
  S2: theory that no one wants house prices to fall, but
• 8:07
  S2: we've got to such a tipping point. People look at
• 8:10
  S2: their kids and go, yeah, little Johnny, little Judy, they
• 8:15
  S2: are never getting a house. Yeah. Like, I was actually
• 8:18
  S2: talking to a senior cabinet minister just this week, and
• 8:22
  S2: they were just saying, my kids will be okay because
• 8:26
  S2: I will give them money to get to a house.
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  S2: But that is not how the Australian property market should
• 8:32
  S2: be working. So maybe, maybe we've got to that tipping point,
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  S2: I don't know.
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  S1: Okay. Well, so on that, if the government won't sort
• 8:39
  S1: of say outright that it's a good thing that if
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  S1: a property prices at least come off the boil, if
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  S1: not come down entirely, they won't say that out loud.
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  S1: But even on current sort of figures or the current trajectory,
• 8:52
  S1: as you're saying, it might be a small correction, but
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  S1: it's very, very unlikely to be a crash. So housing affordability,
• 8:58
  S1: as you just said, is as bad as it's ever been.
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  S1: It's worse than it's ever been. So at best, isn't
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  S1: this policy just going to be a little bit of
• 9:05
  S1: fiddling around the edges? I mean, it's maybe it's something
• 9:07
  S1: that is better than nothing, but it's not going to
• 9:09
  S1: really fix the problem, is it?
• 9:11
  S2: Well, you've got to take it into context with everything else.
• 9:14
  S2: Like there's not many people alive who've seen a government
• 9:17
  S2: spend so much in the housing space. That's true for
• 9:21
  S2: all the criticisms of this government. And there are more
• 9:23
  S2: than a couple of shoeboxes worth. You can't say they
• 9:26
  S2: haven't said, we've got to do something about housing. So
• 9:29
  S2: on the night of the budget, with the the tax changes,
• 9:33
  S2: there was a there was an injection of $2 billion
• 9:36
  S2: straight into local councils and states to get some of
• 9:40
  S2: their infrastructure up to scratch. So the more homes can
• 9:43
  S2: be built, the overhaul of the National Construction Code, the
• 9:46
  S2: Housing Australia Future Fund, the build to rent, the social housing.
• 9:51
  S2: There is more policy than you could poke a dispatch
• 9:54
  S2: box at right at the moment in terms of housing
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  S2: and the and the opposition to their credit have clicked
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  S2: like they went for too long, thinking we can't do anything,
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  S2: but they are clicking. And even some of them senior
• 10:06
  S2: members inside the Liberal Party go, it's okay if house
• 10:10
  S2: prices edge down. That's actually helpful for us to where
• 10:14
  S2: we want to get to.
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  S1: Mhm. Shane, this is obviously a moving story, and we're
• 10:19
  S1: going to be looking at it and keeping an eye
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  S1: on it over the coming months. So thank you very much.
• 10:22
  S1: We'll have you back on soon. It's always a pleasure.
• 10:25
  S2: The pleasure is all mine seeing you, Jacqui. And good
• 10:28
  S2: luck in the goalkeeping position later today.
• 10:38
  S1: And now we welcome our federal political correspondent Natasha Chrysanthos.
• 10:42
  S1: Welcome to us.
• 10:43
  S3: Thanks, Jack.
• 10:44
  S1: And before we get into it, we need to congratulate
• 10:47
  S1: us because she won the Wallace Brown Young Journalist of
• 10:50
  S1: the year award last week, which is an annual prize
• 10:52
  S1: presented by the National Press Club. And it's a very
• 10:55
  S1: prestigious one. So we're really proud of you. Task. Good
• 10:57
  S1: on you.
• 10:58
  S3: Thank you.
• 10:59
  S1: Now talk to me about the gambling advertising reforms that
• 11:02
  S1: the Albanese government has put forward this week. There's sort
• 11:05
  S1: of a compromise, but they're pleasing few people, it seems.
• 11:09
  S3: This is the long awaited gambling reform package for labor.
• 11:14
  S3: You know, they had a go at it in the
• 11:16
  S3: last term of Parliament. It didn't really go anywhere. Albanese
• 11:20
  S3: unveiled a couple of months ago at the National Press
• 11:22
  S3: Club what the government planned on doing, but very controversially,
• 11:26
  S3: it's full response to what's known as the Murphy report,
• 11:30
  S3: which was an inquiry from the last term of parliament
• 11:32
  S3: in 2023 by the late labor MP Peter Murphy. That
• 11:36
  S3: recommended quite like a strong and wide ranging crackdown, took
• 11:41
  S3: the government 1000 days, more than a thousand days to
• 11:44
  S3: respond to. and it controversially responded to that report on
• 11:47
  S3: the day of the budget, when everyone was in lock
• 11:49
  S3: up and looking at other things. So this I feel
• 11:52
  S3: like this gambling stuff's been quite sensitive for the government.
• 11:55
  S3: There have been two ministers working on it. The legislation
• 11:58
  S3: finally came before the parliament this week, and it's a
• 12:02
  S3: it's a watered down version of the Murphy report's recommendations.
• 12:07
  S3: So instead of a total ad blackout on gambling ads
• 12:10
  S3: during sports games, for example, it wants to limit them
• 12:13
  S3: to three an hour. And there are a range of
• 12:15
  S3: other changes as well. The government's promoted this as a
• 12:19
  S3: good compromise option, but it's not enough for gambling harm
• 12:24
  S3: reduction advocates in particular. And the crossbench. Yeah. And I
• 12:28
  S3: think what's interesting that we saw this week was a
• 12:30
  S3: few voices in the coalition also speak up in the
• 12:32
  S3: coalition joint party room and say it's not really good
• 12:35
  S3: enough for us either. So there'll be a push over
• 12:38
  S3: the winter within the Liberal Party from a few of
• 12:40
  S3: these people to kind of encourage the party to take
• 12:42
  S3: a different position. Mhm. Um, not to just kind of
• 12:45
  S3: either wave through Labor's package or reject it, but to
• 12:50
  S3: try and actually work with the government on some amendments
• 12:53
  S3: to improve the package, whether that's actually an issue that
• 12:56
  S3: Angus Taylor chooses to take up wholeheartedly, though, and use
• 13:01
  S3: it as a wedge against the government, remains to be seen.
• 13:03
  S1: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it, because the Greens are very
• 13:06
  S1: scathing about the reforms, and they say that they basically
• 13:08
  S1: don't go far as as far as they should. And also,
• 13:12
  S1: you know, pivotal senators like David Pocock just basically says
• 13:16
  S1: this is not protecting children enough. That's one of the
• 13:18
  S1: main focuses is young people and children. So the government
• 13:21
  S1: has said that there won't be they'll ban radio ads
• 13:24
  S1: in schools, radio ads for gambling in school, pick up hours.
• 13:27
  S1: But yeah, some people are just saying that's not enough.
• 13:30
  S1: I interestingly, I actually didn't know this, but Peter Dutton's policy. So,
• 13:33
  S1: you know, way back, way back then, it seems so
• 13:36
  S1: quaint now. Um, he wanted to ban ads for an
• 13:38
  S1: hour before and after live sport, which seems like a
• 13:40
  S1: much more serious go at it. And as you say,
• 13:43
  S1: the coalition sort of had a party room meeting. Um,
• 13:45
  S1: I think it was last week where some some members,
• 13:48
  S1: including Simon Kennedy, who of course is a member for Cork,
• 13:51
  S1: Scott Morrison's old seat stood up and just said, like,
• 13:54
  S1: I've been to gambling addicts meetings and I've seen the
• 13:57
  S1: destruction that gambling can wreak on families and on people.
• 14:01
  S1: We need to do something about this. So, I mean,
• 14:04
  S1: do we know whether Angus Taylor has much of an
• 14:06
  S1: appetite for it?
• 14:07
  S3: I don't think it's clear. I think with Peter Dutton
• 14:09
  S3: it was interesting because that position, which was a stronger
• 14:12
  S3: position and there are people in the party, for example,
• 14:15
  S3: in this in this handful of people who would like
• 14:17
  S3: to see the party return to pushing that Peter Dutton proposal.
• 14:21
  S3: But Peter Dutton had this set of values around protecting
• 14:25
  S3: children and family values. And and that does go into
• 14:28
  S3: the kind of liberal philosophy to an extent. It's strong
• 14:31
  S3: on family values, traditional family values, also strong on freedom.
• 14:34
  S3: So I think this is an interesting one where the
• 14:38
  S3: two kind of rub up against each other a little bit. Yeah.
• 14:40
  S3: And you had someone like Dutton firmly fall on the
• 14:43
  S3: side of the former. And I think that was interesting.
• 14:45
  S3: Not sure where Taylor is going to land with it.
• 14:48
  S3: The other thing is his focus needs to be on
• 14:50
  S3: on the kind of economic message, right? So whether he
• 14:53
  S3: wants to kind of get into a debate over gambling
• 14:57
  S3: when Parliament returns, and that's where he thinks the Liberals
• 14:59
  S3: should be. Um, I personally do think it is a
• 15:02
  S3: really interesting wedge issue for labor, because it is one
• 15:06
  S3: of the few issues where the government is really under
• 15:11
  S3: pressure from its left flank. So I think if, for example,
• 15:15
  S3: the coalition came in from the other side and you
• 15:19
  S3: had both the Greens and the coalition pushing for something different,
• 15:21
  S3: I think it would be uncomfortable for the government. I
• 15:23
  S3: think that would be interesting politically.
• 15:25
  S1: So they could do it to make the government uncomfortable.
• 15:27
  S1: They could also do it to have a stand on something, anything,
• 15:30
  S1: because Angus.
• 15:31
  S3: Angus and I think the people who are invested in
• 15:33
  S3: this debate, you know, it really is from a conscience.
• 15:36
  S3: It's a real conscience issue for people like so many.
• 15:38
  S3: You know, people across the political spectrum have been obviously
• 15:41
  S3: affected by gambling harm. Mike Freelander, the Labour MP at
• 15:44
  S3: some point last year, said you know, if you put
• 15:46
  S3: these issues to a conscience vote in Parliament, we'd probably
• 15:49
  S3: see a really like a much stronger package pass. Mhm.
• 15:53
  S3: So yeah, it is an interesting issue.
• 15:55
  S1: I think it's an interesting issue for Angus Taylor. I mean,
• 15:57
  S1: there's this strange story this week about Opposition Leader Angus
• 16:00
  S1: Taylor speaking to a rally protesting the culling of wild
• 16:03
  S1: brumbies in the Snowy Mountains. So he talked about the
• 16:06
  S1: 2003 bushfires in that area and criticised basically the national
• 16:10
  S1: parks management of them, and seemed to imply that that
• 16:14
  S1: the fires were allowed to burn or they sort of
• 16:16
  S1: let it rip for ideological reasons.
• 16:20
  S4: And the national park said, we're not going to put
• 16:21
  S4: them out because we believe in wilderness. Now they've got
• 16:25
  S4: this ideology from the west coast of the United States,
• 16:27
  S4: and they said humans shouldn't have anything to do with
• 16:30
  S4: it anymore. We're going to let it go.
• 16:32
  S1: And this is apparently offended some in the New South
• 16:35
  S1: Wales Rural Fire Service and has been a sort of
• 16:38
  S1: unwelcome distraction in Parliament for Taylor, hasn't it?
• 16:41
  S3: Yeah, it really ate up. Um er what day was it.
• 16:45
  S3: Was it Tuesday's Question time because. Yeah Labour used it
• 16:50
  S3: as a kind of like political attack on Taylor. And
• 16:54
  S3: then Garth Hamilton, the backbench Liberal MP, was furious and
• 16:57
  S3: stormed out of the chamber. Um so no, after that fracas,
• 17:01
  S3: no one's really prosecuted the issue again and obviously was
• 17:04
  S3: quite sensitive. But I think for Angus Taylor. Yeah. Any
• 17:08
  S3: any distraction at this point is not what he wants.
• 17:12
  S3: And he like going back to this Liberal coalition joint
• 17:15
  S3: party room meeting on Tuesday, one of the things that
• 17:17
  S3: a lot of people spoke about was gambling. The other was, hey, guys, please,
• 17:22
  S3: like let us stop talking about ourselves again and let
• 17:25
  S3: us focus on what we need to be doing. And
• 17:27
  S3: Angus Taylor also got up to his MPs with this
• 17:29
  S3: kind of strong message on discipline. Um, you know, that
• 17:32
  S3: was a few hours before this story broke thanks to
• 17:34
  S3: reporting by our colleague Rob Harris. But yeah, there is
• 17:38
  S3: this real drive from the Liberals right now, reasonably so,
• 17:41
  S3: to stay on message, stay on message. The question is
• 17:44
  S3: whether that message is getting through to voters. Right?
• 17:46
  S1: Yeah. Well, it would seem not. There was another couple
• 17:49
  S1: of polls out this week, Newspoll and the Redbridge poll,
• 17:51
  S1: which was published in our sister paper, cousin paper, The
• 17:54
  S1: Australian Financial Review. So Newspoll had the coalition primary vote
• 17:58
  S1: at 17%, which is a record low for coalition. Newspoll
• 18:02
  S1: and the Redbridge poll had the coalition vote at 18%.
• 18:05
  S1: This is particularly incredible to me because the Greens vote
• 18:08
  S1: in both those polls is usually around 14 or 15%.
• 18:11
  S1: So they're sort of almost on a par with the
• 18:13
  S1: Greens vote at this point. And Albanese is leading Taylor
• 18:16
  S1: 47 to 36 on the preferred PM stakes, according to Newspoll.
• 18:20
  S1: I mean, we're hearing more mutterings about the efficacy of
• 18:23
  S1: Taylor's leadership, right? Because, you know, he took over from
• 18:25
  S1: Kevin Lee saying we need a new direction. You know
• 18:27
  S1: he's going to turn things around. We had the Liberal
• 18:30
  S1: frontbencher this week, Melissa McIntosh, saying that the Liberal Party
• 18:33
  S1: needed a rebrand, whatever that means. I don't know what
• 18:35
  S1: that means. And then Andrew Hastie, of course, is kind
• 18:38
  S1: of you know, he's openly interested in the Liberal Party leadership,
• 18:43
  S1: is making some pretty spicy comments. Strong comments actually sort
• 18:48
  S1: of not exactly defending multiculturalism, but at least having a
• 18:51
  S1: stance on the issue of multiculturalism, which Angus Taylor couldn't
• 18:55
  S1: manage to do last week when he was asked about it.
• 18:58
  S3: Yeah, the Melissa McIntosh rebrand comment was kind of in
• 19:02
  S3: an off the cuff interview. I think it was interesting.
• 19:04
  S5: Put myself out on a limb a little bit. I
• 19:05
  S5: think it's time for the Liberal Party to rebrand itself. Uh,
• 19:09
  S5: some people think that we're stuck in the past and
• 19:12
  S5: our policies need to resonate with the Australia of today
• 19:16
  S5: and the future. So I think it would be really
• 19:18
  S5: a good time for us to revisit our values, what
• 19:21
  S5: we stand for, and the way we project.
• 19:23
  S3: It got so much backlash, which I think goes to
• 19:26
  S3: the sensitivity of the party, to this kind of navel
• 19:32
  S3: gazing at the moment, like she kind of got, you know,
• 19:35
  S3: slapped down by a colleague speaking on on radio TV,
• 19:38
  S3: in that party room meeting. It was a kind of
• 19:40
  S3: veiled reference to that comment. I think the comment like
• 19:44
  S3: it was honest. Right.
• 19:46
  S1: She was kind of stating the obvious. It was fairly benign.
• 19:48
  S3: Yeah.
• 19:48
  S1: Yeah. It was also like, what does that mean? Like,
• 19:51
  S1: I would have thought they need more than a rebrand
• 19:53
  S1: at this point.
• 19:55
  S3: Yeah. And I think I.
• 19:56
  S1: Think crisis.
• 19:57
  S3: Yes.
• 19:58
  S1: Needs something more than a new sticker on it.
• 20:00
  S3: Yeah. And I think people took it very literally. As
• 20:02
  S3: you know, we change the name, we change the logo, etc..
• 20:05
  S3: I think she was talking about vibes, the vibes, the
• 20:09
  S3: vibes are off and we need to kind of rejuvenate,
• 20:12
  S3: you know? And Andrew Hastie, Angus Taylor says the same thing. We,
• 20:15
  S3: you know, we need to change. Hastie is a change
• 20:18
  S3: or die guy.
• 20:19
  S1: But he's Angus. Do we see any change under Angus Taylor?
• 20:22
  S1: I mean, do you think you're in Canberra? I mean
• 20:25
  S1: what what what is his cut through like?
• 20:27
  S3: I think we have seen him try on the policy front.
• 20:32
  S3: Like I do you think the reflection from MPs under
• 20:35
  S3: the tenure of of Sussan Ley when they did this
• 20:38
  S3: kind of. We're wiping the policy slate clean. We're starting
• 20:42
  S3: from scratch. The reality of that meant that they had
• 20:44
  S3: nothing to really talk about or sell in terms of
• 20:47
  S3: policy for that kind of first 6 to 9 months
• 20:50
  S3: after the election. So I think what Taylor has done
• 20:52
  S3: is try and come out strong with a more hardline
• 20:57
  S3: immigration kind of stance and policy, for example, although it's
• 21:01
  S3: they've kind of released only part of that. His budget
• 21:03
  S3: in reply, the indexation of tax brackets, um like these
• 21:09
  S3: are particularly in the tax one. It's a big idea,
• 21:13
  S3: but no one's talking about it. So whether that's because
• 21:15
  S3: it is hard to engage people in complex policy, especially
• 21:20
  S3: something like tax reform. And that's not actually the way
• 21:23
  S3: to cut through whether it's his leadership and delivery. Does
• 21:26
  S3: he do you know I think he's do.
• 21:28
  S1: You think he does enough media. Um I mean, he
• 21:31
  S1: I don't remember the last time he was on the ABC,
• 21:35
  S1: and he certainly doesn't do a lot of interviews with us.
• 21:38
  S1: I was just sort of struck like this, this Instagram
• 21:41
  S1: video that we had of him talking about the Brumbies
• 21:43
  S1: was actually the first time I've seen footage of Angus
• 21:47
  S1: Taylor talking about something for a little while. Is it
• 21:50
  S1: just that he struggles to capture media or that he
• 21:52
  S1: doesn't do enough media?
• 21:54
  S3: Well, I think the other question is, what is the
• 21:56
  S3: most effective media for politicians to reach people these days? Like,
• 22:00
  S3: is it mainstream media? Is it social media? Like, what
• 22:04
  S3: are the channels that they're deploying? Like the liberals also
• 22:07
  S3: did these, um, the federal liberals had a couple of
• 22:10
  S3: videos that were very much the Jess Wilson kind of
• 22:14
  S3: Olympic style, everyone running around on a pitch type videos
• 22:18
  S3: with all of them. I don't know if you saw
• 22:20
  S3: it the other day, like a yeah, I don't know
• 22:23
  S3: how to describe it. Trendy social media.
• 22:26
  S1: Isn't isn't the idea though, that you have to do
• 22:28
  S1: all of it. I mean, you know, if you want
• 22:30
  S1: to reach younger voters or voters who are tuned out
• 22:33
  S1: of the mainstream media, you know, you have to have
• 22:35
  S1: a social media policy, but also.
• 22:38
  S3: You probably want to throw everything at the wall at
• 22:39
  S3: this point too, don't you?
• 22:41
  S1: Yeah. You would be wanting to build your profile and
• 22:43
  S1: to be building a sort of a brand, dare I
• 22:46
  S1: say it, of, of having stances on particular issues. I
• 22:49
  S1: guess I would just contrast it with someone like Andrew Hastie,
• 22:51
  S1: who does pick up headlines very easily. And also Tony Abbott,
• 22:55
  S1: who is, you know, the new Liberal Party president. It's
• 22:58
  S1: not a role that would normally cause any kind of
• 23:01
  S1: stir in the press. But every time he says something,
• 23:03
  S1: it's widely reported.
• 23:05
  S3: Yeah. And I think the other thing to note about
• 23:07
  S3: Hastie as well is his his kind of media presentation
• 23:10
  S3: is shifting. He's doing a lot more ABC, for example,
• 23:13
  S3: like he's kind of shifting from the Sky audience to
• 23:16
  S3: a more mainstream audience, a younger audience, a non paywalled audience.
• 23:19
  S3: I think that's really interesting. He seems to be quite
• 23:21
  S3: cognizant of the fact that the Liberals do need to
• 23:23
  S3: be putting themselves in front of younger people, people that
• 23:27
  S3: aren't their traditional constituency, to rebuild their brand. Dare I say.
• 23:33
  S1: It? Well, we have extended an invitation to Andrew Hastie
• 23:36
  S1: to be on this podcast previously. And he he said yes.
• 23:38
  S1: And then he then he withdrew. So we we'll extend
• 23:42
  S1: that invitation again. Um, and it also goes to Angus Taylor. Natasha,
• 23:47
  S1: thank you very much for talking to us, as always.
• 23:50
  S1: It's a pleasure.
• 23:51
  S3: Thank you for having me.
• 23:55
  S1: You can read all of our political news on our website, smh.com.au,
• 23:59
  S1: and the age.com.au. Today's episode was produced by Kai Wong
• 24:04
  S1: with help from Debbie Harrington. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills,
• 24:08
  S1: and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick.
• 24:12
  S1: Before you go, please follow Inside Politics and leave a
• 24:15
  S1: review for us on Apple or Spotify. I'm Jacqueline Maley,
• 24:19
  S1: thank you for listening.