Latest / Say Who, Say Pod / Say Who, Say Pod, Ep. 158

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Say Who, Say Pod, Ep. 158 · Say Who, Say Pod

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: Pod.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: Pod.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back, Pod, to another episode of Say Who Say Pod.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: He's Danny O'Neill.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: He's got another sports coat on.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: You're looking good, Christian.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Looking sharp.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: The camera's set up.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: I even bought a little, what do they call them, selfie lights?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: Pocket lights?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:28
  It's clipped to the camera,
• 0:30
  which I don't think is how you're supposed to do it.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: But it's, you know, it works, I guess.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: Coming to you in stunning 4K resolution.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: This would go.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: We like to see from the... Yes.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Are you in the attic?
• 0:41
  Like,
• 0:41
  we need to come up with a name for your recording space now
• 0:43
  that it's being featured.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's not an attic.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's technically just upstairs.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's the office that,
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: as far as the IRS is concerned,
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: I conduct all of my business in and use exclusively as an office,
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: by the way,
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: in case anyone asks.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: got a little,
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you can quite call it a backdrop,
• 1:02
  but there's Husky Stadium over my left shoulder in a newspaper
• 1:08
  article I wrote over
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: my right that's framed.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I feel like I'm a little less grainy now.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: No, you look good, man.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: You look really, really good.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't even have to be all coy about the IRS.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like that is fully 100% as an independent journalist,
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: the sole purveyor,
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: sole proprietor of onmontlake.com.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing even remotely sketchy about it.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Hell yeah, nothing remotely sketchy at all.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: We got video proof in 4K!
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah, there'll be no, yeah, look at it.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: There's no squinting to see.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: We got some,
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: as far as I could tell,
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: there was one comment on our YouTube video last week,
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: which reminds me,
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: thanks to everybody watching this on YouTube,
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: coming to you a day early.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: As usual,
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: here on Wednesday,
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: August 20th,
• 1:52
  there was a comment on our episode last week from someone who
• 1:55
  did not like our
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: intro.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: I kind of think maybe they don't get it.
• 1:59
  I think maybe the show is not maybe they're new to the show,
• 2:02
  which,
• 2:03
  you know,
• 2:04
  welcome.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't like the intro.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: There was something right.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: They don't like the intro song.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: I can understand not wanting to see my mug.
• 2:12
  To be fair,
• 2:13
  it's,
• 2:14
  you know,
• 2:15
  we got the whole duct tape and bailing wire vibe.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Which was coming through,
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: just on audio,
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: but then you add the video element to it,
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: and it's just us sitting here and that playing.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I think especially if you're not a lifetime diehard UW fan,
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: you're probably like,
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: what the hell is this?
• 2:33
  Yeah,
• 2:35
  there are very few things where I would say I'm really picky
• 2:38
  about aesthetics.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm fairly picky about aesthetics.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds like he didn't get it either, Ben.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's probably the one leaving the comment.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: If you haven't subscribed to the YouTube channel yet,
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: go ahead and do that,
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: please,
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: if you'd like to.
• 3:19
  I'm not going to tell you how to live your life,
• 3:20
  but on Montlake,
• 3:23
  on YouTube,
• 3:24
  search it up.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: Approaching 1,500 subscribers.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: Appreciate the response so far.
• 3:28
  Dropped about a 37-minute depth chart breakdown there on
• 3:32
  Tuesday that the folks seem to like.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: So check that out in addition to the...
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: The words version over at Substack.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's been occurring to me,
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: Danny,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: as the season approaches and people are starting to get very excited.
• 3:44
  First of all,
• 3:45
  before we get into,
• 3:46
  we're going to talk about non-conference scheduling.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's kind of the one topic.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: non-conference scheduling,
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: high school NIL,
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: which Danny wrote about for the Tacoma News Tribune this week,
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: has some opinions on a couple Husky.
• 4:01
  Well,
• 4:01
  one Husky commit and one Husky recruiting target in the 2027
• 4:05
  class who are involved there.
• 4:08
  Are you starting to talk yourself into Washington as being like
• 4:12
  a really good team this year?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like the Joel Klatz of the world has got Husky fans fired up,
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: and I wonder if you're buying in.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: I am open to the idea.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: I do not have a vested interest.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not willing to say if they don't win 10 games, I'm going to be mad.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think they've got a shot to win double digits.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: I hope that they do.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I haven't set that as a benchmark.
• 4:37
  And I feel like that's always sort of the real measurement for
• 4:43
  once you get to the
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: point where it's like,
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to be bummed if they're not good.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not quite there yet.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: But I am very open and hopeful of the possibility they will be good.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: So are you still in like, I just want to see them get better.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: I just want them to be fun to watch mode.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want them to have multiple games where they don't have a shot.
• 5:06
  in the second half where they,
• 5:08
  they are getting dragged in the second half.
• 5:10
  And I feel like there were clearly three games last year where
• 5:15
  by the time it got
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: to the second half,
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: they were,
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: they were done.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: They were just didn't belong on the same field,
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: maybe four,
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: depending on how you feel about the Indiana game.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: But I felt that they were,
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to see multiple games like they had at Penn State.
• 5:33
  That to me would be progress of where it's just clearly they
• 5:37
  are a lesser cut of
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: meat than the Nittany Lions were that game.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: A couple episodes ago,
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was,
• 5:42
  we kind of talked about how I thought they were in kind of a
• 5:48
  fun zone this year as
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: far as expectations go.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: Coming up shy of a playoff appearance would not be a total failure.
• 5:56
  There's a way they could go seven and five and have people not
• 6:00
  feeling like
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: terrible about the program.
• 6:02
  I heard from a listener who kind of pushed back on that a
• 6:05
  little bit and said seven
• 6:07
  and five to them would be a huge disappointment and that the
• 6:11
  threshold for whether
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: you can feel good about this year is actually eight and four.
• 6:16
  Because seven and five would basically mean they went like
• 6:19
  chalk minus a game.
• 6:22
  Chalk plus they lost at Wisconsin or they lost at Maryland or
• 6:26
  they didn't beat any
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: of those four teams ranked in the top 14 that we talked about last week.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: Ohio State, Oregon, Michigan, Illinois.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, I don't know, are we falling victim to like
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: off-season optimism by saying that maybe there's some credence to that.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: That, like, maybe 8-4 is the threshold.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think another point that listener made was that,
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 6:53
  they weren't a good team last year and they were an eyelash
• 6:56
  from winning two more
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: games to be 8-4 a year ago.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: And in theory, the schedule's easier this year.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, I don't know.
• 7:04
  Are we talking ourselves into 8-4 as an acceptable threshold
• 7:09
  rather than 7-5?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Let's take a bigger picture look.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: What does it mean, acceptable?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Jed Fish isn't going to get fired after this season.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: True.
• 7:21
  Is there a scenario where if they go 7-5,
• 7:23
  he could be on the hot seat next year?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe.
• 7:27
  If he went 7-5 and then went 7-5 or took a backslide after this
• 7:32
  season,
• 7:32
  I could see it.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: But it's really that idea.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's all vibes to me.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: When you talk about acceptable,
• 7:42
  Lincoln Riley is in a situation this year where there is a line
• 7:47
  for acceptability
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: where if he doesn't hit that,
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: his ass might be out,
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: probably will be out.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that whole thing of when it's just vibes we're talking about,
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: In general,
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: I believe seven and five,
• 8:00
  you're going to have to really do a lot of calisthenics
• 8:05
  flexibility to try and
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: explain that away as,
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: hey,
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: this isn't a bad sign that they were seven and five,
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: but it's really,
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: they're really better.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's going to be a hard sell job.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: But that question,
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: I feel this always comes back to,
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: look,
• 8:20
  the reality of where Washington was left when Kalen DeBoer left
• 8:24
  and the roster
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: imploded is,
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there's reason to feel that they've recovered pretty well,
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: given the depth of losses they suffered after that happened.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it's I do think that we're going to see progress.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: But is it out of the realm of possibility?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Would it be a coaching malpractice for them to go seven to five?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's we saw it last year.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: This is a team that is short of beef in a conference that demands beef.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's we saw clear shortcomings.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: There were.
• 8:57
  Would you say there were four games where they were just
• 9:00
  absolutely manhandled?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: They're manhandled in Penn State.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: They're manhandled by Iowa.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: They're manhandled by Indiana.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Do we throw Oregon in there?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 9:12
  So there's four games where they were just clearly you can play
• 9:16
  that game a hundred
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: times and that Washington winning that will require acts of God to occur.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't want to see that.
• 9:28
  I think it's fair to say I don't want to see that in multiple
• 9:31
  games where it's just
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: clearly this team is an echelon below it.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's a different cut of beef.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's fair.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: Semi-related to that thought...
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: is that there's been so little...
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think a byproduct of how little,
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: let's say,
• 9:51
  break-pumping there has been on DeMond Williams from his head
• 9:55
  coach specifically...
• 9:58
  Do you think that people's expectations are too high for him as
• 10:01
  a true sophomore?
• 10:03
  Not relative to like what his capabilities are and what his
• 10:05
  ceiling could be.
• 10:07
  But just this idea that I feel like the season could start and
• 10:10
  there could be a
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: mistake or two that makes you go,
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: right.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like he is a true sophomore.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's he this is not a polished power for quarterback yet.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like we we've all seen the skis already done it.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: The Sun Bowl last year was like proof positive.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: This is what he can be.
• 10:29
  I wonder if there are going to be some growing pains at
• 10:32
  quarterback that kind of
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: snap people back to reality a little bit.
• 10:35
  And by that,
• 10:36
  I don't mean DeMond Williams not being good or DeMond Williams
• 10:40
  not being that guy.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: or DeMond Williams,
• 10:44
  even being the kind of quarterback that's going to like prevent
• 10:47
  them from winning
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: more than six or seven games.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: I just mean the type of stuff that's common for forcing a,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: a pass in the red zone,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: on first and goal or something,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: trying to make something out of nothing,
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: whether you're taking a drive,
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: killing sack when he could have got rid of the ball,
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: stuff like that,
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: that maybe you don't see it as much as a senior,
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: assuming he's still in college as a senior,
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: but that,
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh,
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: right.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like,
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: First time,
• 11:13
  full time starting sophomore quarterbacks with only one year in
• 11:17
  college under their
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: belt are going to make some of these mistakes.
• 11:20
  Yeah,
• 11:20
  people definitely think he's going to be more consistent than
• 11:22
  he'll turn out to be.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely believe that.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: I believe that there will be games where he doesn't play well.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I do think that he'll make backbreaking mistakes.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, God, what's the best Michael panics this season?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I still don't think we have the full story about his,
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: the fluctuations in health over the course of that year.
• 11:41
  But you think about,
• 11:41
  I mean,
• 11:42
  that's one of the best seasons we've ever seen.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: And there were games where he was not as good, clearly not as good.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: I was a dude that was sixth year.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's that.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: People think he's going to be more consistent than he's going to be.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's going to be someone with a very high ceiling.
• 12:03
  in which he's capable of making plays and even having games
• 12:07
  where he's just electric.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there are going to be some fluctuations and some mistakes.
• 12:12
  And I could see him or his decision-making being a central
• 12:17
  factor that is pegged in a loss.
• 12:20
  Even one that you say like,
• 12:21
  oh,
• 12:21
  Washington really shouldn't have lost that game.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there's going to be some unevenness.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: There were people who...
• 12:28
  Obviously hadn't seen him practice all camp because they have
• 12:31
  jobs and such and
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: don't spend their time watching football practice like I do for a living.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: Who saw him for the first time in their mock game on Saturday.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: And who were like, whoa, that was dealing very sharp.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I wasn't that wasn't very good.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's not what I was expecting.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: I am in the boat that thinks,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: hey,
• 12:53
  a little bit of patience is going to be required as he
• 12:56
  continues to develop.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think the mock game meant a damn thing.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: Just to get that on the record, like, there were...
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Shoot,
• 13:06
  darn near every practice of training camp before the mock game
• 13:10
  was more meaningful
• 13:11
  to me in terms of takeaways of how these guys actually are
• 13:15
  going to perform.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think the mock game for Jed Fish,
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: and I don't want to put words in his mouth,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: he'd probably disagree a little bit.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's more of a logistical exercise than anything.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, they scrimmaged.
• 13:27
  Yes,
• 13:28
  there was some live contact,
• 13:29
  I think mostly when third teamers were on the field.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: Raiden Vinesbright, I thought, had a good showing.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: Desmond Roebuck, surprise, surprise, continues to show up.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: Zach Durfee made a bunch of plays.
• 13:44
  I don't think the purpose of that practice was to,
• 13:47
  like,
• 13:48
  let's see the ones...
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: you know, really put on a show.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to call, we're going to pull, we're going to play call.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to scheme like this is a game for the number one offense.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: So we're going to play call and scheme.
• 13:59
  Like this is a game for the number two defense going against
• 14:01
  them and vice versa.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: When the number two offense is on the field.
• 14:05
  Like I think it's just,
• 14:06
  we're going to go through the mechanics of a game.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: Last year when they did that,
• 14:09
  I'm pretty sure they stayed at their hotel the night before and
• 14:12
  did the whole bus
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: over thing.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know that they did that this time.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: But to call it a scrimmage,
• 14:19
  it was not as scrimmage-y even as their last actual scrimmage
• 14:24
  the Saturday before.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I...
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: you'd like any public display of your star quarterback.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: You'd like him to be awesome and totally on.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: And like, there were some throws he missed and stuff, but I don't know.
• 14:37
  Like I,
• 14:38
  we were kind of sitting there like,
• 14:39
  this is,
• 14:40
  this feels half speed.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like this doesn't feel like a truly okay.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: This is, you know, big time lights are on competition.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was, but it was all, you know, I don't take much away from that.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: That practice is what I'm saying.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: You've got a quarterback whose quickness is a major asset,
• 15:02
  and he's practicing or playing in an environment where it's not
• 15:06
  full contact.
• 15:08
  I think that that is an environment that he is set up to be
• 15:11
  underwhelming because
• 15:13
  one of the major assets he has is the ability of even when
• 15:17
  dudes are trying to
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: tackle him and playing through that,
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: that he's able to escape.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I just...
• 15:23
  I've watched a lot of football scrimmages and I've watched a
• 15:25
  lot of NFL preseason games.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it is, there are very specific things you can look for.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the overall performance of a quarterback is not one of them.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like you just, it's, it is, it is the wrong environment.
• 15:39
  It is also the wrong environment to evaluate pass rush and the
• 15:42
  wrong environment to
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: really evaluate run blocking because you're not really sure.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: You're not really sure what is going on and how the,
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, it's not, it's not replicating game intensity.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not even, oh, it's half.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: like you said,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: it's,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: it's like a version of the game where you're like,
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: this doesn't really tell you much.
• 16:03
  Speaking of evaluating pass rush,
• 16:06
  Zach Durfee was his,
• 16:08
  his,
• 16:09
  I'm going to say his dominant self.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: In that mock game.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: I also, I was curious ESPN.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was, uh,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Adam Rittenberg and Max Olson,
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: or maybe just Adam Rittenberg,
• 16:23
  who had like 43 sleeper players in college football this year
• 16:30
  to watch for based on
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: input from their head coaches.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like they reached out to schools,
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: reached out to coaches and said,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: hey,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: who on your team who's maybe like...
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: not getting a ton of attention or hasn't played a ton before,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: like really going to break out this year.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: And Jed Fish's pick was Zach Durfee.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Durfee.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Did Durfee make Bruce Feldman's freak list?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: He'd be one who I maybe would have nominated.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll just find the list so I can quote Jed Fish properly here.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: He said...
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: Quote,
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really hopeful that Zach plays all 12 games,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: and if he does,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think he'll be one of the best defensive linemen in the Big Ten.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: He's one of the best players that I've seen.
• 17:13
  But,
• 17:13
  you know,
• 17:14
  he looks the part,
• 17:15
  he is the part,
• 17:15
  but he has to stay healthy.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: He can stop the run and rush the passer.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: He can line up against a tight end.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: He can line up against an open side tackle.
• 17:23
  He has real amazing flexibility to do all the things that you
• 17:26
  could ever ask for a
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: defensive end.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to see it, Christian.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to see it.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'll say we saw it all camp.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: We saw it all camp.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: There was no percent.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: He looks ready to go.
• 17:39
  There was no moment during fall camp where you thought,
• 17:41
  man,
• 17:42
  I don't know.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: Durfee's not showing up like they managed his reps.
• 17:45
  And there was one day where he was working with the trainers
• 17:47
  fully suited up,
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: but didn't do any team stuff.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: But then he was back out there the next day.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: He was back out there for the mock game.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: And he had like basically the equivalent of three sacks.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think he played for most of it.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: So, um,
• 18:01
  If he's healthy,
• 18:01
  which seems like he is,
• 18:04
  then he's he's a potential difference maker.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: I noted this in my story.
• 18:10
  One thing from the mock game that at least highlighted like
• 18:13
  this is how this
• 18:14
  defense could be different this year was Zach Durfee just
• 18:19
  busting through clean for
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: what would have been a huge like blow up sack of Kai Horton.
• 18:24
  The play continuing and Horton hucking a deep pass into the end
• 18:30
  zone and Takario
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Davis diving and making what we thought was an interception.
• 18:34
  It was ruled incomplete by the official who was on top of it,
• 18:37
  so maybe he dropped it.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: But it was still like a very athletic play,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: and he nearly came up with this diving pick,
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: really impressive interception.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought,
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: that's kind of the ideal for their defense,
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: right,
• 18:49
  is Zach Durfey getting after the quarterback and Takario Davis
• 18:52
  being a real
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: difference maker at corner.
• 18:54
  And there's one play in a mock game that I just told you didn't
• 18:58
  mean anything.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: But those two guys,
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think them and Alex McLaughlin,
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: if you're asking,
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: how is this defense going to be different this year?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Just from what we saw in training camp,
• 19:10
  it's not just those three because it's an entirely new defense
• 19:13
  kind of across the
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: board.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: Those are three guys who really stood out, who were like,
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: not just replacements,
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: but upgrades,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: like value-added dudes who either weren't here last year or,
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: in Durfee's case,
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: were too banged up to really make an impact.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: If you were going to say the four best defensive players on this team,
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: is it Prysock,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Takario Davis,
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Durfee?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then, I mean, I struggle to put
• 19:46
  you can't put Manu on there cause he's coming off such an
• 19:49
  injury and you're not
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: sure is,
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: but are those,
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: are those the top three,
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: your two corners and Durfee?
• 19:55
  Um,
• 19:56
  I think,
• 19:56
  I think price sock needs to prove that he,
• 19:59
  he belongs in that top tier.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: I think he could be.
• 20:02
  And even to Cario Davis,
• 20:03
  you know,
• 20:04
  he didn't have a great junior year at Arizona last year.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: So he's,
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure in his mind,
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: he's still got something to prove too,
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: but just based on his performance and training camp,
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: like he really looks like that dude.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think Tariq Al-Ukta, Buddha Al-Ukta is in the conversation.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like he's their clear leader at linebacker.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: He had,
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: numbers-wise,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: a pretty good year at Wazoo last year,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: was up there in snaps played,
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: was up there in tackles,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: had a pick six,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: and some fumble activity,
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: whether forced or recovered.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: I know he missed some tackles too, and that was kind of an issue.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: So that's something that you're looking for him to clean up.
• 20:44
  And as he makes the step up in competition,
• 20:47
  maybe that gets especially a fine point on it.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think you're hoping that Ontario Thompson can be that guy.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: Seems like he'll have the opportunities to be, um,
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: again, a step up in competition.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: He's been on a Big Ten team before,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: but hasn't really played Big Ten defense,
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: so that's something to watch.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: I kind of think Alex McLaughlin's going to be in that conversation,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: as versatile as he is at safety,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: as kind of a unique of a player as he is.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: He can cover,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 21:19
  what really makes him valuable is what he can do closer to the
• 21:22
  line of scrimmage
• 21:22
  and in the run game and maybe even getting after the
• 21:26
  quarterback in certain
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: packages,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: so...
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's, we'll have to see who steps up, right?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's a number of guys who have flashed in camp where you think,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: man,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: like if he can play at that level consistently,
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: if this guy can play at that level consistently,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: if,
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 21:44
  Taitai Uyunglele can kind of give them some pass rush and some
• 21:49
  versatility on the
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: interior and on the edge.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like he becomes super valuable.
• 21:53
  And,
• 21:54
  you know,
• 21:54
  Devin Bryant had a really good spring and a really good camp.
• 21:57
  And just looks like there's not really a weak spot necessarily
• 22:03
  where you go,
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: man,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: they're one injury away from being just like,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: world of hurt here or here or here.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: The closest thing is there's a couple spots where,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: okay,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: you're one injury away from relying a ton on a true freshman,
• 22:18
  but the reason that you'd be relying on that true freshman is
• 22:20
  because he's really
• 22:21
  good and has put himself in position where he'd be the first
• 22:24
  guy off the bench at
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: this point,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: like Ryland Dillard Allen at safety,
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: like Dylan Robinson at corner.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not a flawless defense.
• 22:34
  Again,
• 22:34
  we still need to see the defensive line especially prove it on
• 22:38
  the field.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: But I think you're feeling pretty good about the group.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: dare I say,
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: better than you did about their defense going into the last season,
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: despite everything they've lost.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely better.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: You feel better.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: You see the horsepower.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: You see the size of the dudes.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely think they look better.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: We mentioned the non-conference scheduling thing.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: Is your excitement for this season,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: any season,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: I guess,
• 23:07
  is it tempting the fact that you don't have a big-time marquee
• 23:12
  game to look forward
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: to in the first...
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'll say the first two weeks.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think going to Pullman and playing Washington State is fun,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: and that's not a game you can look past.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's a game they lost last year, so it's not like...
• 23:24
  That's in a different category than Colorado State and UC
• 23:26
  Davis,
• 23:27
  no doubt.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: But it is a game that I think Husky fans in their minds are like,
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: if this year is going to be anything,
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: they got to win that game.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like going to Tennessee or hosting Tennessee, right?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, my enthusiasm is tempered.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm bummed.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: I have always been a proponent of,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: I thought Washington's non-conference schedule can be one gimme,
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: one sort of good lesser conference team,
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: and then a premier non-conference,
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: somebody from the Big Ten,
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: the
• 24:05
  well what was the big 12 like a a really good program that was
• 24:11
  what i always
• 24:12
  advocated i thought that that was the best way to do it to have
• 24:14
  an a b and a c and
• 24:18
  i didn't like that sark eliminated or pushed back against
• 24:23
  having an a-level team
• 24:25
  like i thought he was one of the primary reasons that they went
• 24:29
  away from that
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: I've always respected Chris Peterson's scheduling.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: I also I'm not I'm not I'm not as mad about
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Now,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: as I was with with Sark,
• 24:43
  where I was actually mad about the direction the scheduling
• 24:46
  took under Sark.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Now,
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're going to see non-conference scheduling change,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: and I'm not happy about it,
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: but I also feel like I'm fighting City Hall.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like that decision,
• 24:57
  that play has been called and made where it's going to be to be
• 25:02
  and a C or maybe a
• 25:04
  B and two C's is how their non-conference scheduling is going
• 25:08
  to go going forward.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: And the Apple Cup is a huge part of that equation.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: Should the Apple Cup be their best non-conference game?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because this year, in my opinion, it is.
• 25:21
  And maybe it'll turn out it's not in Colorado State's better
• 25:23
  than the Cougs.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think the Apple Cup should be their best non-conference game.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it probably will be.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: It has to be.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: It has to be.
• 25:33
  You can't you can't play it without it being your your best
• 25:37
  game because it's it's
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: now the only non-conference road game you can ever schedule.
• 25:44
  So this all flows off of Washington and every power for school
• 25:49
  needing seven home
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: games every year.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Mm hmm.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: So in years where you've got,
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: you play nine Big Ten games,
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: you alternate five home,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: four away,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: four home,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: five away every other year.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: In years where you have five Big Ten home games,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: that leaves you the flexibility to play one non-conference run.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: And right now that's Washington State every year.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: So you can't,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: in theory,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: you're free to schedule whoever for your two non-conference home games,
• 26:17
  but you're not going to get a power four opponent to come to
• 26:20
  Seattle to play you on
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: a one-off.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: They're going to want a home-and-home agreement.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: And right now, and again, it's a five-year deal, right?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: Last year was the first year.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: This is year two.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's back on campus.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: It goes Pullman-Seattle, Pullman-Seattle.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: 2028 is the final year.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: And after that, we'll see.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: They've got a home-and-home on the books with Tennessee, right?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: There's talk of this Big Ten SEC challenge maybe down the road,
• 26:43
  but now the conferences don't seem like they're really on the
• 26:45
  same page with
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: anything.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll see how the kumbaya develops between the two leagues.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: That would solve a lot of problems.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: You could just keep the Tennessee series and away you go.
• 26:57
  But they're going to have to address the Apple Cup at some
• 27:01
  point post-2028 and
• 27:03
  whether they want to be locked into that being their only
• 27:07
  non-conference road game
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: every other year.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that series with Tennessee is going to come off?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's 2029 and 2030, right?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: I believe so, yeah.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: First one is the trip to Tennessee, and then the next one, Tennessee's.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that happens?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it'll happen.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, something has to give.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: You can't play that series and keep the Apple Cup going.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's...
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to get into,
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: you're right,
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: as it's currently,
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: because Wazoo has stated it's not going to have it at a neutral site.
• 27:50
  It's theoretically possible you could create that game at a
• 27:53
  neutral site and have
• 27:54
  the revenue ultimately make enough that it's not enough of a
• 27:58
  hit that you say like,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: okay,
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: we need that seventh home game.
• 28:02
  That it makes up enough of that,
• 28:04
  that it can be six home games plus that Apple Cup game.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's theoretically possible.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know that the schools are going to ever agree to that.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: I agree entirely.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: So let's take the apple cup out of it, though.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm saying.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that Tennessee... Because I don't...
• 28:21
  Everything I see from the direction of college football is that
• 28:24
  you're really not
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: going to see the inter-conference kind of clashes like that.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: That it's going to go away from that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think Washington and Tennessee are going to play.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't see... I like the idea of an SEC Big Ten challenge.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think those two conferences will ever agree to it.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: can see this going both ways, either way with non-conference scheduling.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: If the playoff expands to 14 to 16 and the Big Ten gets its way,
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: the SEC gets its way with four automatic qualifiers,
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: will some schools say,
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: okay,
• 29:04
  so all we got to do is be sixth place in the Big Ten to get to
• 29:07
  that play-in game
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_03: for a playoff spot?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: then what does the non-conference matter?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, now let's prioritize filling the stadium.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: Now let's prioritize drawing eyeballs on TV.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: And do you get pushback from your TV partners at a certain point who say,
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: gosh,
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: I realize it's better for Washington's record if you play UC Davis,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: Colorado State,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: whether it's Washington State or whoever,
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: but...
• 29:41
  now that that's not really going to have like tremendous
• 29:43
  bearing on whether you
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: make the playoff or not,
• 29:46
  it would be great if you could instead find a way to play Ole
• 29:51
  Miss or Utah,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: even,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: some of your old PAC 12 pals,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: Washington against Miami,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Washington against Clemson.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, um,
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: I just,
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: those games,
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 30:07
  balls and draw attention and bring people to the stadium and
• 30:11
  you give your...
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: your fans an opportunity to travel and like, it's just fun to play.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: Now, would it be as fun if you kind of know it doesn't impact anything?
• 30:23
  If you kind of know it's not like make or break for your season
• 30:27
  or for your opponent's season?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: Or,
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: do you now,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: because the conference is everything,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: do you now schedule your non-conference like an NFL preseason?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: And even if you're playing,
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: an opponent who's not as good as you,
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: but good enough to beat you,
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: do you play your starters?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: this is our longtime listener,
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: Andrew Percival,
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: pointed this out a while back saying,
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: a large AQ number from the Big Ten.
• 31:02
  Could that lead to someone like Washington sitting starters for
• 31:06
  the Apple Cup?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because it just doesn't matter anymore.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I could see it going that way, too.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: So.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: It depends.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: It depends on how I don't know.
• 31:15
  It depends on how much you think coaches love the game and care
• 31:19
  about college
• 31:20
  football and like want to put a desirable product on the field
• 31:24
  weekend and week
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: out.
• 31:25
  Coaches care about their ranking and they care about getting to
• 31:28
  the ultimate prize.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that their number one?
• 31:30
  I mean,
• 31:31
  that's this is my observation is that most people,
• 31:37
  most coaches are
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Their singular focus is on how do I get to the ultimate prize?
• 31:44
  And if you take away an incentive for them to play compelling
• 31:48
  non-conference games,
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: they're not going to play compelling non-conference games.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's my own belief.
• 31:53
  And kind of after thinking about it,
• 31:55
  I think that's the side I come down on.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: That if you take out polls and if you make it automatic qualifiers,
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're going to see fewer schools,
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: especially fewer top-end schools.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: go that route of scheduling really good non-conference games.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's my belief.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I just generally think that's the direction things are headed.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Conference play is going to become more important.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Not that it already wasn't important,
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: but it's going to become pretty much the decider of how you get in,
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: and you're going to see a step down in non-conference games.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: I know how to incentivize it.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: How?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: The way you incentivize anything in college sports anymore.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: Money?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: Revenue.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: Winner of Washington, Texas gets a $10 million bonus.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: TV networks will have to guarantee money to the winner.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: So each team gets a big enough guarantee to make the game worth it,
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: but then the winner gets more.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's interesting.
• 33:05
  Because as it stands now— I'm being half sarcastic,
• 33:08
  but it kind of seems to drive everything.
• 33:10
  As it stands now,
• 33:11
  non-conference games,
• 33:13
  they're— Like,
• 33:15
  who televises this?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Texas, Ohio State this year?
• 33:18
  Does that money go through the conferences,
• 33:21
  or does it just go to the schools,
• 33:22
  the TV money?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: when Washington played— I mean,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: it depends on,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: who the home team is and so who has the rights—
• 33:30
  When Washington played Auburn in that Chick-fil-A kickoff
• 33:33
  classic in 2018,
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: that was like a one-off agreement.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're right.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: And each team got a $6 million guarantee.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: So like the neutral site stuff, I think, runs directly to the school.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: To the schools.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: That is exactly how it is.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: So that's interesting.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: I could see that.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: But Ohio State Texas isn't neutral site, right?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, I don't think so.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's at Ohio State.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: So that'd be in what I assume Fox has that.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: That was probably their first pick.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's interesting because I could see that.
• 34:08
  I could see big pots of money being put out there for
• 34:11
  compelling non-conference.
• 34:12
  I mean,
• 34:12
  they're obviously already being put out there for compelling
• 34:15
  non-conference games.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: Is there some parallel between...
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like,
• 34:20
  finding a way to force the top college football programs to
• 34:24
  play each other in
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: non-conference and this,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: in-season tournament the NBA has going on.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: Not really, because unless you can get people excited about...
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: that actually meaning something?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: I still don't believe that anybody gives a rip about the NBA Cup.
• 34:43
  I think they think it looks kind of fun on TV because the court
• 34:46
  looks different.
• 34:47
  And I think LeBron was interested to do it because he's into
• 34:51
  padding his resume to
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: try and compete with Jordan.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think anybody really
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: gives a rip about it.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: Soccer has all these alternative,
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: like there's a champions league and there's the regular league.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's like the,
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: the country competitions,
• 35:06
  but I don't know if you can come up with the conference title
• 35:11
  means something,
• 35:12
  but I would argue the conference title means less than it did
• 35:15
  20 years ago.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: And the playoff means something.
• 35:19
  And I don't know if you're going to get anybody to care about
• 35:22
  anything else.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, a rivalry game, but that goes without saying.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: But they pay the winners, right?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: The NBA Cup.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: There's a cash prize for the players on the winning team.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: I can't believe it makes enough to make those.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Is it insignificant?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how much they pay.
• 35:38
  You'd have to pay an awful lot of money to get an NBA player
• 35:41
  interested enough in a
• 35:43
  one-off game or that sort of in-season tournament to make them
• 35:46
  really value it.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: I just, it all flows back to what's best for TV.
• 35:51
  And what's best for TV is for every week to be meaningful and
• 35:55
  interesting and draw
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: eyeballs,
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: especially as like,
• 36:01
  dollars for live sports might be like drying up right like they
• 36:06
  can only get so
• 36:07
  valuable they're going to be looking to the networks are going
• 36:09
  to be looking to
• 36:10
  extract every last cent out of advertisers and out of these
• 36:14
  games and the way that
• 36:16
  you do that is have your biggest brands playing interesting
• 36:21
  games every single week
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: You say that and it's compelling, Christian.
• 36:25
  I will point to NFL preseason ratings as evidence that if you
• 36:31
  put football on TV,
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: people are going to watch it.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you may not.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes,
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: more people will watch good games,
• 36:40
  but it might not be enough more for the TV networks to break
• 36:44
  out in a sweat.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, you could put anything out.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: These fools will watch it.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: I was just like,
• 36:52
  I saw an Instagram story of a friend who was at the Seahawks
• 36:56
  preseason game the
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: other day getting rained on.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: It was like not even a football fan.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, why?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: Why in the world?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: Jason Gay,
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: who's a columnist at the Wall Street Journal,
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: he wrote a column,
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was two weeks ago,
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: about NFL preseason football.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, at this point, the horse hasn't just left the barn.
• 37:17
  The horse has left the barn and built an entirely other barn
• 37:20
  that it has also escaped from.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: To explain the run amok nature of NFL preseason viewership, which is...
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: absurdly high, given what is actually on the field.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just wild to me.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: You wrote an interesting column this week for the News Tribune.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: You don't need to just say that to try and butter me up.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm not buttering you up.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: Listen.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like a jerk.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to say that.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like a jerk.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: I used to work at the News Tribune.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: The sports staff has dwindled.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: Shout out to John Manley, by the way.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: The one who broke the story on this.
• 38:01
  So I'm,
• 38:01
  I am always interested in,
• 38:04
  in,
• 38:05
  uh,
• 38:06
  reading an interesting viewpoint.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: They used to employ two columnists there when I worked there.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: Now there are none and there have not been any in, uh, in quite a while.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, um, unique insight and opinion is always welcome.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: Tell folks,
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: if you haven't seen this story,
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: tell folks about the high school NIL developments at,
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: it's at Lincoln high and elsewhere.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: There's two players, Sion Cahoe, who is the quarterback.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: He's a junior.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: He's a rising junior at Lincoln.
• 38:37
  And then a cornerback from Tahoma,
• 38:39
  Elijah Doerr,
• 38:40
  have signed NIL agreements.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's a six-month agreement.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: And this was reported by John Manley with Burger Kitchen,
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: which is a chain of burger restaurants.
• 38:52
  It's I think the initial one is located inside or adjacent to
• 38:56
  attached to a holiday inn.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: And they're they're looking to create franchises and expand.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's a six month agreement where the two players are going to get some
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: compensation,
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: some free food.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: They're also going to participate in some food giveaways,
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: their charity food drives or giving out food to needy people,
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: needy families.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: As part of the NIL agreement.
• 39:21
  And it's it's the first NIL high school deal that we know about
• 39:26
  in Washington State.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: Doesn't mean it's the first one that's happened,
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: but it's it has like they've they've announced it.
• 39:33
  There was a press conference and the story was published last
• 39:36
  week in the News Tribune.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: And
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: My initial reaction, I winced when I read about it.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel bad about that because it's going to come off.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to come off as a hater and a grumpy old man.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm going to be in some ways kind of criticizing
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think NIL deals for high school kids is good.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's necessary.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think it should be avoided.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: That said, I have no problem or objection to this deal itself.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if I thought everyone was going to go like this one is,
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: at the very least,
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'd keep my mouth shut,
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: if not stand up and applaud.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: But
• 40:17
  I can just see pretty clearly what I think will be coming
• 40:21
  around the corner,
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: around the bend on this trajectory.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: And especially given what we've seen in college athletics,
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think NIL is necessary in high school,
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: and I think it's going to create a lot of problems.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: What is the end game that you fear?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because I have my own thoughts on what that might be.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: But what is it you're really hoping that this doesn't turn into?
• 40:48
  The first is that kids start making decisions about where they
• 40:54
  attend school and
• 40:56
  play high school sports based on what marketing opportunities
• 41:00
  they can get.
• 41:02
  based on the the platform or like whatever the words that
• 41:06
  people come up with right now.
• 41:09
  I'm not going to pretend that kids don't transfer schools for
• 41:12
  all sorts of reasons
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: that have nothing to do with academics.
• 41:16
  Like this is the idea that a kid's going to go somewhere to
• 41:18
  play a sport at a
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: specific school is not new.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I think this is going to compound that.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: The second the second part is
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: You do not want agents talking to high school kids.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's already happening enough.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: You do not want agents now lining up
• 41:37
  Do you an agent talking to a 16 year old sophomore about the
• 41:42
  endorsement deals?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: I can get you not to mention that those things aren't really regulated.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like there are agents for college athletes,
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: NIL deals who are taking absurd what I consider to be absurd commissions.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: Twenty, twenty five percent is not.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the second part.
• 41:58
  And then I think the third part,
• 42:00
  and this is probably just the biggest one.
• 42:04
  The visibility and increased attention that it is going to
• 42:10
  generate will come with
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: unforeseen drawbacks.
• 42:14
  I think it's subjects will ultimately subject these players to
• 42:18
  a level of scrutiny and pressure.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: it's going to enhance all of what they currently face.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it is, in my mind, inextricably tied to visibility on social media.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think there should be things,
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: especially for high school kids,
• 42:35
  encouraging them to participate in the attention economy that
• 42:40
  social media is.
• 42:41
  I think that is generally,
• 42:43
  and that's not even about athletic development so much as just
• 42:46
  people so those are my three my three worries are the reasons
• 42:50
  why i would say this
• 42:51
  is a bad idea we don't need to do this i would share all of
• 42:56
  those concerns but the
• 43:00
  idea of a free marketplace applies even to young people right
• 43:05
  and i i think that
• 43:10
  I think what is maybe keeps some of the toothpaste in the tube
• 43:15
  on this where it's
• 43:18
  fully empty at the college level is that there is not big money
• 43:23
  in high school
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: athletics.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: There are not billion dollar television contracts.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:32
  While I think there are probably some private schools that give
• 43:36
  certain transfers a
• 43:37
  break on tuition or whatever it might be to get kids into the
• 43:42
  school to play for
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: their sports teams,
• 43:44
  that's the closest thing you probably have to a private school
• 43:50
  or any school paying
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: a kid.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: So in college...
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: the big sticking point,
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: and I continue to believe,
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: and many continue to believe,
• 44:00
  it's not going to be resolved until there is collective
• 44:01
  bargaining and the players
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: are employees and they're paid directly by the schools,
• 44:06
  is third-party collectives continuing to pay players ostensibly
• 44:12
  for use of their
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: name,
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: image,
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: and likeness,
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: but we know they're not really.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's not an IL.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's just pay for play.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: In theory, in theory, there should not be
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_03: Much of a market for pay for play at the high school level.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: You could see.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: A school like modern day,
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: a school like Bishop Gorman,
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: some of the more the larger schools in Texas,
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: some of the larger schools in Florida,
• 44:38
  the big programs that kids transfer into that that just tend to
• 44:42
  collect talent.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Mm hmm.
• 44:45
  You could see them arranging sponsors who on an annual basis
• 44:48
  will make sure that
• 44:50
  the star quarterback has some kind of deal so he can get a
• 44:53
  little something.
• 44:54
  So that's further incentive to play at that program and so on
• 44:57
  and so forth.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: But you're never going to have this sticking point where,
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: okay,
• 45:04
  every kid is factoring in his NIL compensation to some degree
• 45:11
  for whether he's
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: going to play for this school or that school.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: we need to just make these,
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: this,
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: this,
• 45:16
  this is not going to end until we just make these guys
• 45:19
  employees and have a
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: collective bargaining agreement and regulate this thing.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's never going to be a need for that at the high school level.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: So,
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: and it,
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: you,
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: you make the point well,
• 45:30
  that a one-off burger deal with Sione Cahoe and Elijah Durr is
• 45:34
  not the end of the
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: world.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, it's a really cool thing, like locally and for the community.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not the deal itself.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, 100 percent.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: I want nothing but the best for these two kids.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'll go.
• 45:46
  I want Secret Burger Kitchen to realize its plans and become a
• 45:50
  national nationwide chain.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: I have nothing but I'm going to sound like a rapper.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: I got nothing but love for it.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, seriously, like I I want it to work.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: And if every deal I thought was going to be like this,
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: I would at the very least shut the hell up,
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: if not stand and applaud.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: You've got the extreme end of this,
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: trying to find as many local sponsors as possible to pay LeBron James.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe Nike just signs him when he's 15.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: And from there, you know what?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, doesn't have to worry about where to go to school.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because he's got a sponsorship deal that far exceeds anything related.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there's already too much transferring.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's already too much people trying to game it.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 46:38
  I covered Bellevue High School and Butch Gontroff first got
• 46:41
  there and reading about
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: what that program became.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was not covering Bellevue by the time.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of it, you're like, this isn't high school sports.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's not.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: They had a...
• 46:53
  Was it the tutoring facility in the strip mall that kids were
• 46:57
  going to and then
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: playing for Bellevue High School?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like that?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I realize I'm an old man yelling at clouds.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: And what you said, this...
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: It is logically inconsistent to be in favor of college NIL,
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: which I am,
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: and then say,
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: but high school NIL doesn't work because it's the same thing.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: I just,
• 47:20
  I think that overall this is going to be a net negative and
• 47:23
  it's going to happen
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: and you're going to have to sit there and I'm just going to feel like,
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just going to be the old man yelling at the cloud.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: You acknowledge this too.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: I think it already happens to an extent.
• 47:35
  like independent of nil it does yes exposure and all like i i
• 47:40
  cringe and i doesn't
• 47:41
  stop me from writing it because it is a reality but like i
• 47:43
  cringe every time i'm
• 47:44
  like wow you know carson bruner stayed at redmond high school
• 47:48
  so can you believe
• 47:48
  that played all four years at redmond high school even though
• 47:50
  he was really good
• 47:51
  yep he could have gone to could have gone to east side catholic
• 47:54
  he could have gone
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_03: even sam heward it was considered like
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: kind of a surprise that he went to Kennedy Catholic.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like they, they thought they'd go to East side Catholic.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, he, they believe grew up in Bellevue.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: I want to say,
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: so it's not like,
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 48:14
  it's not like he would have been moving out of the area to go
• 48:17
  to a private school
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: in Sammamish,
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: but you know,
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: busing into the area or whatever.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: But, um,
• 48:24
  It's like a feel-good story now when a kid spends all four
• 48:28
  years at the public
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: school that he's districted for when he could have gone.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: I saw,
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: an interview with Brian Bonner,
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: Washington's running back commit,
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: about staying at Valencia High School,
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: spending his career at Valencia High School instead of...
• 48:44
  Our buddy Andy Yamashita at the Seattle Times had a great story
• 48:49
  on Jonah Coleman
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_03: last week about his upbringing in Stockton,
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: California.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: And there were some comments in there about how,
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 48:58
  I don't know if it was modern day or some other like high
• 49:00
  profile California
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: programs tried to get him to come and play for them.
• 49:05
  And that,
• 49:06
  you know,
• 49:06
  it was remarkable that he stayed loyal to Lincoln High School
• 49:09
  in Stockton.
• 49:10
  And so it's,
• 49:12
  it makes me kind of sad that that's,
• 49:15
  that that's a thing that like,
• 49:17
  Oh,
• 49:17
  wow.
• 49:18
  You know,
• 49:18
  it used to just be a given that you'd stay and play for the
• 49:21
  school.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_03: You were,
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 49:23
  your hometown school or the school you started your high school
• 49:25
  career at or
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: whatever.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time,
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: if you,
• 49:29
  if you're all in on this football thing and you feel like going
• 49:32
  to the bigger
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: school is going to help you in your career and your,
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: you
• 49:37
  earning window in this sport especially is so limited and
• 49:41
  there's an opportunity
• 49:42
  for you to do it at this age and for the foreseeable future
• 49:46
  over the next few years
• 49:48
  who's to blame the kid who does go and transfer to modern day
• 49:54
  it's not about
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: blaming
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's about looking at what is,
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: is that in the longterm,
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_02: like what minimal money you can make from doing this?
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: Is it worth the cost that's going to come with it?
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean,
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: covering NFL players,
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: like they're worried about contracts and they're worried and get mad.
• 50:16
  Like I've watched guys in their late twenties and thirties
• 50:19
  become kind of bitter
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: about what they see and experience online.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I,
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think my general feeling,
• 50:26
  and this is an admittedly sort of old man perspective is you
• 50:31
  don't need to be in a
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: hurry to get there,
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: man.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like all that stuff is going to be there.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: And if you fixate on that too early,
• 50:39
  I think it becomes an impediment to you kind of fulfilling your
• 50:43
  potential both as a
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: player and as a person.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that's look, that is that is very much an old man.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe that's what it is.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: We just realized I'm 50.
• 50:52
  the 50 year old man who's worried about kids about the dang
• 50:55
  internet i don't
• 50:56
  disagree and unlike unlike many others i i don't believe that
• 51:01
  your worry is
• 51:02
  disingenuous i think it comes from a it clearly comes from like
• 51:06
  a genuine place of
• 51:08
  is this going to be the best thing for high school kids going
• 51:11
  forward if it gets to
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_03: that point that that you talk about um i
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: only somewhat related, I now want to check out Secret Burger.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: I do, too.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: I totally do.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: Does it...
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'll ask you,
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: does it bother you,
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: or do you think that,
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: hey,
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: this is just the way of the world,
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: and it's going to happen sooner or later,
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: and this is just the direction everything's going?
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_03: you've got 12-year-olds making millions of dollars,
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_03: unwrapping presents on YouTube,
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: So...
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, where, where are we like talk about toothpaste out of the tube?
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_03: My God,
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_03: I do just kind of think it's,
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_03: and maybe I'm,
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: maybe I'm like,
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm,
• 51:55
  I've been too close to this like money world in college
• 51:58
  football for too long to
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_03: like step back and see the forest for the trees.
• 52:03
  But,
• 52:03
  uh,
• 52:05
  I just,
• 52:06
  I think that the zaniness will be capped at a level that is a,
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_03: great degree below where it's at with college football.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think you're going to see,
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: at the big private school powerhouses,
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: maybe,
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think you're going to see,
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 52:25
  collectives popping up at Lincoln High School and Mount Tahoma
• 52:29
  High School who see
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: this deal and go,
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_03: you know what?
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_03: We can...
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_03: We can raise even more money and get,
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 52:36
  I like I just maybe maybe this clip will get shared around in
• 52:40
  10 years when that's
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: the norm.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: And everyone's talking about what a moron I am.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't see it getting to that point.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: while we are on the topic of NIL,
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: it is time to get to our weekly conversation with Ian McFarland,
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: who I thought for a minute his feelings might have gotten hurt.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was legitimately getting worried that his feelings were hurt.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think that's the case.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning, gentlemen.
• 53:06
  every week there seems to be a little more mention of the the
• 53:09
  critics of this
• 53:10
  particular segment of say who say pod and i get it i mean it
• 53:18
  was originally just me
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: asking a question like who where is number five
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: But now it's just a meandering rant about God knows what.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I understand that that's not what you tuned in for.
• 53:36
  But if you don't like it,
• 53:38
  you got trouble this week right here in River City,
• 53:40
  baby.
• 53:42
  Trouble that starts with T and that rhymes with P.
• 53:44
  And in this case,
• 53:45
  it rhymes with T again.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that T stands for Tommy Bahama.
• 53:52
  We saw the power of the licensing of UW Athletics last year
• 53:57
  with Wizards of Warcraft.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what it's called?
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: World of Warcraft.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: Microsoft did it,
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: and I know there's a lot of black and purple and goblins and stuff,
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: and that was cool.
• 54:10
  But did we need a licensing deal that I just saw an ad for in
• 54:17
  Tommy Bahama?
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do we need...
• 54:22
  The people that graduate from Big Johnson shirts into oversized
• 54:28
  floral shirts
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: wearing weird white and floral purple in Seattle in October.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to pause it here.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think there's anything wrong with Tommy Bahama shirts.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: Am I wrong?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't see them as a descendant of the Big Johnson t-shirt.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: There's nothing wrong with smoked salmon either.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_03: But our guy...
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_03: Our guy IP has his proclivities.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is an Ian issue.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do we need that?
• 54:57
  Do we need the brand that bought and sucked the soul out of
• 55:03
  bastardizing the resort
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: my wife and I got married at?
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: Did we need that brand?
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: So now that I've eliminated one potential sponsor from Say Who Say Pod,
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know,
• 55:20
  given that Christian can't go back to practice until Monday and
• 55:24
  content still might
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: be a little light,
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: what's the branding partner you'd like to see for UW?
• 55:29
  What's the activation that you think would be a lot of fun both
• 55:33
  for the university,
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: for the fan base,
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: and for the players,
• 55:37
  and potentially as a sponsor of this podcast so all the critics
• 55:41
  could eliminate me?
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, Tommy Bahama, you don't like what I'm saying?
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: Put your money where your mouth is.
• 55:49
  Sponsor the podcast under the condition that you've got to get
• 55:52
  rid of this ugly
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: bald head every week.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: I dare you.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: Guys, have a good week.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: Go Dawgs.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: The one that jumps off the top of my head is Secret Burger Kitchen.
• 56:07
  But that's really because I'm just trying to suck up and make
• 56:09
  good after what I
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_02: still feel guilty about.
• 56:14
  I just I feel guilty about about the criticism that I offered
• 56:18
  because it's not
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: about that restaurant or it's deal with those two players at all.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Do any do any do any NIL deals jump out to you?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, they've already they've done dicks, right?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's the.
• 56:33
  You had that ready to go.
• 56:35
  I did.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: Did we already play that?
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_03: Were you just anticipating?
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was going to say.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: It was dicks.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_03: yeah,
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_03: they had the...
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_03: And they did a good one,
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_03: I thought,
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: with,
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: Carson Bruner and a bunch of guys.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: Those were some hard pictures.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: Dudes hanging out at the dicks up on Capitol Hill.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: Some hard pictures.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like there's been some stuff with Alaska Airlines.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like there's probably...
• 57:06
  more opportunity there i don't want to say that too
• 57:09
  definitively because i feel
• 57:10
  like there's probably there's been some stuff that maybe just
• 57:12
  hasn't been super
• 57:14
  publicized um which is kind of the point of nil but uh yeah i i
• 57:21
  don't know that
• 57:22
  there's like a really obvious one that jumps off have a clam
• 57:26
  chowder eating
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: competition among the offensive line at ivers
• 57:30
  ivers yeah but i feel like they've probably done something
• 57:34
  simply seattle's
• 57:34
  obviously partnered with them on a bunch of stuff um the
• 57:41
  starter still make jackets
• 57:43
  yeah actually i've got a i've got a u-dub starter jacket um and
• 57:46
  simply seattle has
• 57:47
  had some really tough like good looking which i kids have told
• 57:52
  me is that's how you
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: say cool now it's tough some tough u-dub starter starter jackets
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: Vula's Offshore Cafe.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's a popular eatery.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think?
• 58:07
  I'm trying to how you would expand because it's got to be tied
• 58:11
  regionally.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_02: Filson.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: I refuse to say the big coffee company in town.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no.
• 58:23
  The Duchess,
• 58:25
  but that gets into alcohol,
• 58:26
  and you really don't want that mixing in with.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I love The Duchess.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_03: The Duchess came to mind.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: One of the big pizza places near campus.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: When I went there, it was Atlantic Street Pizza.
• 58:39
  They had something called the Basher that was it was as much as
• 58:44
  much meat as I've
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: ever seen on a pizza.
• 58:47
  Well,
• 58:47
  Pagliacci Pagliacci is the exclusive owner of on campus pizza
• 58:51
  rights.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know if that factors in at all.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_02: North Lake Tavern is down there, too.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: That place is that place is tough.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: They closed.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_03: Did they?
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_03: They closed and became Big Mario's.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I think Big Mario's closed as well.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that was.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_03: North Lake Tavern closing was a sad day.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_03: Was that COVID related?
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: Was it before COVID?
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't quite remember.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that hits me where I live.
• 59:22
  I was sitting eating North Lake Tavern pizza with my uncle when
• 59:26
  I heard that I was
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_03: still in college.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: And when a buddy texted me saying the PI,
• 59:31
  either the PI or Hearst had announced that they were going to
• 59:33
  look for a buyer.
• 59:34
  But if they didn't find one,
• 59:35
  they were shutting down the paper in three months.
• 59:37
  And everybody knew that meant that they were shutting down the
• 59:39
  paper in three months.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_03: Big Mario's closed.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_02: What was the best place to eat?
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: What was your favorite place to eat when you went to school?
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: definitely ate a lot of Pagliacci's, a lot of Chipotle.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, Dick's quite a bit.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like Jimmy John's quite a bit because it was close.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's right there on the app and it was easy.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then so fast.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's no Jimmy John's.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: There's no Chipotle.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_02: We had what I liked.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: Nassai Teriyaki was a, was a, was a staple.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_02: They had one down.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: Ate a lot of university Teriyaki.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: UT.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_03: So we called it, uh,
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_03: People shit on it, but Pizza Ragazzi.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: I always was a big Pizza Ragazzi guy on like 52nd and the Ave.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know if that's still there either.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_03: They were up until 4 a.m., which was awesome.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_03: And it was just good.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_03: I liked it because it tasted like cartoon pizza looks.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_03: With the cheese just like kind of dripping off.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_03: There was a, what's it called?
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_03: So Orange King, which RIP, also they shut down.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_03: Orange King was great.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, good.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_03: They had good burgers too, but also good, uh, good teriyaki.
• 1:00:54
  Um,
• 1:00:55
  there's a,
• 1:00:55
  was it burger or something on the,
• 1:00:59
  what's the burger restaurant?
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_03: Burger master.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_03: Wasn't burger master.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: Burger hut.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_03: Burger hut.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_03: which was just like classic greasy, fast, something about it just hit.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: I have come up with, I think, I think it's my selection for the NIL deal.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: Archie McPhee.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_02: Archie McPhee, okay.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: Having some U-Dub little,
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_02: not bobbleheads,
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: because I think the bobblehead is played out,
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_02: and I'm not even into the Funko Pop things,
• 1:01:30
  but like doing some sort of Archie McPhee U-Dub themed football
• 1:01:34
  figurines,
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: helmets.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: I could see something working there.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like a wind-up Jonah Coleman just rumbling through, like down the desk.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_02: I could see that absolutely working.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_03: How about LaBubu?
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: Can you explain to me what LaBubu is?
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_03: I just learned this a couple weeks ago.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_03: What the hell is it?
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'll read it off Wikipedia.
• 1:01:57
  LaBubu is a line of collectible plush toys created by Hong Kong
• 1:02:00
  illustrator K-Sing Lung.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: The series features zomorphic elves with exaggerated facial expressions,
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_03: of which the central figure is LaBubu,
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_03: a monster with sharp teeth,
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_03: large ears,
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_03: and a scruffy appearance.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_02: So this is something between Pokemons and anime?
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's not an inaccurate description.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_03: Looking at them, yeah.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe there's something there.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: But adults buy them, right?
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just for kids.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_02: The person that was explaining this to me was in her 20s.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, anything that can be collected that's popular.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_03: I assume there's an adult faction purchasing them.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: Archie McPhee, give me my wind-up Jonah Coleman rumble buddy.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_03: Archie McPhee's better.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: Check us out on YouTube if you're not already.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: If you are, thank you.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you to anybody listening anywhere.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_03: Subscribe to OnMontLake's YouTube channel.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_03: Subscribe to OnMontLake.com,
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_03: more importantly,
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_03: because that costs money,
• 1:03:05
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• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_03: Subscribe to the dang apostrophe.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_03: Anything else you want to plug?
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: Go back the other way.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: We'll stop and eat it.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: Rate the podcast.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_03: Review it.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_03: We'll talk to you next week.