Latest / The Rochelle Christiane Podcast / 205. Embracing Tantra: Redefining Sexuality and Boundaries

Transcript

205. Embracing Tantra: Redefining Sexuality and Boundaries · The Rochelle Christiane Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Emotional Mastery Podcast.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, rochelle.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm a holistic human design health coach and this is a space for human design and spiritual journey.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: It's not about being a master of your emotions, rather mastering the tools to self-regulate, to awakening yourself and remembering who you are.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Human design changed my life about five years ago and I've been learning and teaching the system ever since.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: This podcast is human design meets spirituality, meets astrology.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: You don't have to have a belief system to be here, just an open mind and curiosity.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: This is a journey of meeting yourself and awakening to your infinite potential.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Now let the magic begin.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode on the Emotional Mastery Podcast.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I was not going to record an intro.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: This week I am traveling I'm in Colorado for the week on vacation but I edited this podcast and I wanted to just come put a little bit of a disclaimer here.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: There are some difficult topics that we talk about.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I speak with Jalela, who is a tantric practitioner, sacred sexuality educator and founder of Heart and Soul Tantra, and we talk a lot about pornography, sex addiction, tantra, online dating, things like that.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: And you know, my goal on this podcast is never to shame anybody, but it's just to support and empower.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: So I feel like there is some languaging in this episode that might be hard to hear.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: There was some languaging that was hard for me to hear, and so I want to remind you, as you're listening to this and navigating this episode, that you are whole and I think acknowledging where you're at is really important, without shame or guilt.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: So if you are struggling with any of these things of course, seeking out help and just, yeah, acknowledging the place that you're at and working from there, you know, I think there is a range in everything, I think there's duality with everything and I think if you're in a healthy consensual relationship, then I think that it is great to explore.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: You know, some of these things that maybe we're talking about Again.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Some of the topics are difficult and so I just wanted to come and sort of yeah, put this here in the beginning, and I think having awareness and, of course, a willing partner obviously is huge.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: So you know we talk about again, we go pretty deep into porn addiction and what that means, and it was really fascinating and hard to hear at times Some of the things that were talked about and that came up in this episode.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: But I think it's an important conversation to open.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: And so, yeah, this is, you know, the episode with Jaleli, with Janice Lee, and I hope that you enjoy it.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I am beginning a new program called Empower and it is designed for women who really want to dig deep into their charts.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: So it's going to be about a nine-week program where we dive into, you know, your big three in astrology and human design, but we dive deeply into each planet, what gate they're sitting in, what house they're sitting in, the aspects to each other, to really get familiar with your chart.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Because, although it is not an excuse, it is not to invalidate your experience.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I felt in my journey that human design and astrology was the thing that really helped with self-acceptance.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: It helped me see myself, it helped me explore things about myself, it helped me just love myself in a really deep way, and so I wanted to bring everything that I've learned in my methods to a small group container so you can sign up for the waitlist in the show notes.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: You can find Jalela in the show notes on her website, on torontantraca Instagram.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: All that will be linked down below.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at rochellechristian and website rochellechristiancom.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I am again having my little vacation my week away in Colorado and it's so beautiful, the weather is amazing and I'm just enjoying it, and so I had a little cold starting, so excuse my voice right before I left and the dryness and the altitude has not been kind, but again, just really enjoying the nature of the weather and just disconnecting.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: So I hope you enjoy this episode.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I will be back next week with a solo Welcome to the Emotional Mastery Podcast.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Today I have Janice Lee, who is a tantra practitioner, sacred sexuality educator and founder of Heart and Soul Tantra, and I'm really excited to have this conversation for so many reasons, which, of course, we will get into.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: But I just like to start.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I'll hand you the floor for you to just share your story, any defining moments you had along the way that sort of got you to where you're at today, and then we'll dive into our core topic of today, which is going to be around porn and Tantra, and I'm again, like I said, I'm really interested to have this conversation for so many and, yeah, Hi, so my name is Janice Lee, my tantra name is Jalela and I am a tantra practitioner.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Couples on sacred sexuality and the philosophy of Tantra.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Tantra is about helping people get back to their intimacy, get back to enjoying sexuality and the bliss of their bodies, but in more of a sacred way.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I've noticed in the past little while that there are a lot of people that get into sexual relations, but it's very superficial.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: So Tantra is about getting back to opening your heart, intimacy, love, loving yourself, boundaries all of those things that go along with having a beautiful relationship.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: And how I kind of got into this it's been a long road.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: I've been doing Tantra probably about eight years now, and I kind of started Tantra after I had left a relationship and it actually had not been a good relationship.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what a narcissist was at the time and what boundaries were about.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: So I had been eight years in this relationship, so my self-esteem wasn't exactly the best at that time.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: So I ended up deciding to get out on the into the world of dating again after such a long time out of it, and it was the time when the online dating had started and I thought it was going to be wonderful I thought it was going to be.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Oh my God, you know, meeting all these wonderful people there's going to be, you know, such a great selection of people and you know I'm going to be able to find my true love.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: But as it turned out, um, it was a very different experience than I had expected.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: The men that I was meeting were very superficial, very superficial in the way they talked to me, very superficial in getting to know me.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: They didn't even want to get to know me.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: All that they were interested in was sexual contact and from the moment you talk to them, within the first five minutes, all conversations ended up going in that direction.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: So I was very, let's say I was very confused at the time because I didn't understand that world.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: I had just come out of a relationship and, even though it wasn't a great relationship, I felt like I was treated at least like a human being was finding was, as I was talking to these men and going out on these dates.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: It was very weird one-sided relationships.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Like I said, they didn't want to get to know me.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: All they wanted was to have sexual relationships and most of them were very one-sided.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: It was all about pleasing them.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: There was no interest in pleasing me at all.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: What I wanted and cared about didn't even matter.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: And what I found was, as I was meeting these different men and trying to get into these relationships, when I did have these sexual encounters, what they ended up being was what felt like being transported into their porn fantasy.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Like being transported into their porn fantasy.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: I was being used as their instrument for their own sexual gratification and it played even more on my self-esteem.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: It did not go along with my boundaries.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Um, I felt really used and very it was very hard for me to deal with.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I ended up writing a blog, uh, which unfortunately I cannot find at this point in time.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: They say things last on the internet forever, but I can't seem to find those.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Anyways, it's called I Should have Been Born a Blow-Up Doll, and the reason I called it that is because that is exactly what I felt like.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: I felt like nothing but a blow-up doll to be used for their sexual gratification and at that point in time I decided I was not going to do this anymore.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: It was against my boundaries.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: It was not what I felt was I wanted in relationships.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: So I closed down my internet sites and I got into Tantra.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: I slowly got into Tantra.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: I started not dating and just going to women's groups women groups of empowerment, women groups of self esteem and getting back to where I really, really wanted to find myself.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: So that's what I did and through that those groups, these women's groups I did find empowerment.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I did find my boundaries and I learned that tantra was really about feeling safe in your sexuality and when you feel safe in your sexuality, you're able to open up and give more of yourself.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: You can give more of yourself to a man with your own pleasure and his pleasure, if you feel safe enough to do that and you don't feel used.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: So I actually made it my goal, I guess, to learn more about Tantra and get into it, and the more I did, I realized that it was something that I wanted to spread to the world.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: So I got into Tantra.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: I started working with women and I started working with couples and I definitely started working with men and as I worked with men, when we spoke, I realized that many, many men had porn addictions and porn problems and that was the cause of a lot of the problems they were having in their lives.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: I've been on this path for the past little while of helping men and women with porn problems.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Is it generally?
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: First of all, I mean, I have so many correlations, I guess, from my story to yours with I've been single.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: I've been dating for almost seven years now and same thing.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I started with the dating apps.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I was single.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I was single for a couple of years.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: There.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I was in a really toxic relationship and so my self-worth was really low, but I knew I wanted to heal myself.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: And then, when I started getting back in the dating world, yeah, I jumped into the online dating and I was like this is going to be it and it was just, yeah, it's so different.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: People don't ask you questions, it's immediately sending pictures or asking for pictures And's just like highly sexualized.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: The minute I give a phone number, it's like it's just a you know, wanting to meet up and have sex and and and.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: In the beginning, you know, coming from you know, you know I was in a really bad relationship, but coming from being in long-term relationships, I it was almost like flattering at first, but then it gets to a point where you're like this isn't at all like what I'm looking for and, yeah, sexual experiences being very much, it's just really interesting, right, like some people just have no desire in pleasing you in any way, right, and I just always, you know, maybe I've had partners that were interested in pleasing me in the past.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I just couldn't really.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: That was just so interesting to me.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: It was not about me at all and I was like this is weird, I know.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: And I think that porn is something I was really interested in having this conversation because I think it's obviously something that's not talked about so much.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: I think it's so normalized in our society and I'm air quoting it because it's just, it's like this beneath the veil type of thing, right, people don't really talk about it.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Or, yeah, it's like I've had many times where people might've asked me do you squirt?
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: And I'm like it's not a porno.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: I know some people do that, but to ask me that right off the bat, it's like you're trying to create this, like you said, this fantasy, or you're trying to create something and it's like is that the standard of how we're going to have, you know, a sexual connection?
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: But you know, when it comes specifically to porn, I know we really associate men with porn.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Do women have as much of?
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: an issue with it as men, or is it primarily a male sort of addiction?
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Women do have problems with porn.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: It's primarily men.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: But the problem is women will watch porn, usually with their men in their life, and they will come to the conclusion that they are supposed to be submissive, they are supposed to lie there and they're supposed to give give everything to their man.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: It's all about making their men happy, and if they're not making their men happy and if they're not making their men happy, they're not living up to what they're supposed to do.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: A lot of the problems is with porn because the internet is so easy to get and porn is so easy to get on the internet that kids start watching porn as young as eight, nine years old.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: They have telephones now and if their parents are watching the guy down the street whose parents aren't watching and have no idea would even think that their little boys are watching porn they're seeing it, they are seeing it all, and so their expectations from a very young age is that women are here to please us.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: And so the young girls, they start watching it too, and a lot of the times because they want to please.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: When we're young, we see this guy and we really like him and he's like the hot guy in high school and he's like the hot guy in high school, or you know've seen.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: This is what I'm supposed to do, this is how I'm supposed to act, and I've heard of things happening in high school where a woman will get, or a girl, a young girl, will give, her first blowjob before she even gets kissed, because that is what's expected.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: It's very, very sad, very, very sad.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember I don't know how old I was, but I was pretty young Because I had a friend with older siblings and we watched, like a VHS porn, right, and I had to have been, I want to say, maybe sixth or seventh grade, which is quite young.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: My daughter's in eighth grade and, you know, I don't know if she's seen anything like that, but it was, it was very young.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: And and having that image of like I guess your first experience or your first visual of what actually sex is right, as male dominated or you know.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: And then, of course, I think, like you explained a lot of us just being a people pleaser, you know, wanting to please the other partner but then not understanding it, should be reciprocal too.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I think that first sexual experience is just you know it, at whatever age it is, in your adolescence.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I mean we're learning so much at that time, Right, and I think it is a crucial period for us.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: And I mean I I have my own memories of of what those experiences were that then shaped, you know, most of my twenties, how I showed up, and I think it wasn't until I became, you know, got into my thirties and then began to actually experience pleasure myself to know, like what I actually wanted, Right.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: So it was a lot of like re rewriting that, but it's just, yeah, it's my.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: My son is seven and I know I think about that.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I'm like it's, it's wild to me, right, that very soon he might be experiencing like watching things like that, you know when he's at a friend's house or you know.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: It's like how can we as parents then help shape what they're going to perceive as like healthy sexual experiences?
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: I think, instead of not talking about it, I think we should have the conversations with our children at a very young age, because they are going to see it.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: It's just like in the olden days.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: You know in school, well, we'll have sexual education, but it's all about abstinence.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Well, the kids are not going to have abstinence, just like kids are going to be watching porn.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: So it's better that the parents.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: It's a very difficult conversation, yes, but I think it's a very important conversation because they need to understand that they're going to see this and it's going to distort their view on sexuality for the rest of their lives and it's just going to keep getting worse.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: I see men in my practice now that are in their early 20s and mid-20s and they've been watching porn for 10-15 years and they're so messed up.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Some of them, even at the early age of like early 20s, have erectile dysfunction which is caused by porn.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: It changes the neurotransmitters in their brains and it is a very addictive thing.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: The dopamine hits that they learn at this young age.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: It just keeps getting worse and worse.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: So what happens is like any addiction all addictions are dopamine hits right.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: So as they start, they'll just probably watch just regular porn and what will happen is look at this dopamine hit and then you know they'll want more and more and more and more, and the neurotransmitters in their brain will say give me this dopamine hit, give me this dopamine hit and some of them will ejaculate two or three times a day, even more sometimes They'll really get into it.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: They'll really get into it, but what happens is that dopamine hit, like anything else, will stop pleasing them.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: So instead of just wanting regular porn, then they'll get into all the genres, and the genres nowadays are even more destructive.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: There's three major types of genres that are very, very destructive.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: One is incest porn.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: I cannot believe that they glorify in sexual relationships in porn.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: They make it seem like it's normal.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: It's not normal, it's definitely not normal.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Then there's barely legal, which feeds into the pedophilia, and there's a lot of pedophilia going on and I think a lot of the pedophilia stems from watching pornography beaten and raped and used, and it's very destructive, it's very brutal and it makes men, you know, think that they can treat women like that.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: If you go on to a fetish site, you talk to people and they're like the men well, I'm a dom, I'm dominant, I'm looking for a submissive.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: They want somebody that they can brutalize.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: They're looking for somebody that they can brutalize.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: They're looking for somebody that they can that will submit to their bullying.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: So I mean, it's just really, really people don't understand that it's not healthy that men and women are struggling for a real relationship because all they've seen through pornography is something that is very, very superficial.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: It's very, very sad there's no more romance in the world.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: How do we discern or distinguish between what could be a healthy fantasy between a couple and something more destructive, If you know, hardcore porn or something that's like the Dom thing like, if we want to explore that in like a healthy relationship, what?
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Where's that border, I guess, between?
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Is this just fulfilling some sort of pornography, addictive, you know thing, and just curiosity.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Well, I think how often it happens is one distinguishing factor, but also if it's talked about ahead of time, what's my boundaries, what's your boundaries?
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: What does this feel like to you?
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: What does it feel like to you know, like like it has to be something that's agreed on.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I know for myself.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: You know I'll speak from my experience.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: I I went through a very brief period in my life where I watched porn.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: It was very short and I was.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: It just didn't keep my interest like that, right.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: But I can understand the dopamine hit of, like, you know, having a real quick orgasm and you know, like whatever.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: But for me I feel like sometimes, you know, I mean from some trauma I have in the past, right, there are things that I'm curious about in in my sexual partnerships and relationships that I don't want to say that they're unhealthy.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: I think coming from curiosity and, again, a healthy partnership, not just going out and seeking somebody who wants to actually hurt me, and I think that's the difference, right, it's understanding this is something that can be enjoyed and explored in a healthy space as opposed to just going out for a destructive purpose, right.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: So I guess I think that's sometimes the I guess the background of, like where my question was coming from, where you know whether it's trauma-based or, you know, just a porn addiction, how we can understand, you know how to navigate that, I guess, within our own relationships addictions.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: the understanding is that if it's something that is mutual between the two people, that's different, but if it's something that somebody wants over and, over and over again and becomes more and more destructive, I think it has to do with the porn addiction.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Do you know a statistic of how many people are actually addicted to it?
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: There's way too many.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: There's a couple websites.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: One is called NoFap and on Reddit.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Nofap is on Reddit and they have their own website.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: When I first started looking into this, there were over 800,000 men in nofap trying to curb their sexual addictions and it's very, very difficult.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: It's a very, very difficult road to go down and a lot of them are finding it so hard, especially if they've started porn in a very, very young age because they've already established a pattern, and it's also bad for their health.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: When the men ejaculate over and over again like I say, some of them ejaculate three, four, five times a day, seven days a week they're losing all their life force, they're depleting their life force.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: That's being ejaculated out of their life.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: So it's very, very hard on the nervous system because of that.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: They go into energy fogs, they go into depression, depending on the road that they go down.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: They start hating themselves.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: If they've gone down a road that's very destructive, like pedophilia or, you know, incest porn or those genres, they start to hate themselves.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: They really do, because they understand how low vibrational that is and how destructive it is and they're going down this destructive path that makes them feel like they're really struggling.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: It's difficult it's, people don't want to talk about the destructive, the destructive of porn.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: But it's something that needs to be discussed because, you know it's funny when I talk about it.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Like you know, people ask me what I do do and I get like the weird remarks, you know people, and especially when I tell them that I help men with porn addictions, like they're they, they like look up and, like you know, turn away like they don't want to hear about it.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: And especially, I think, because you know, especially talking to men, because probably a lot of them have that problem and so they don't want it, you know kind of put there in their face saying, okay, you know there's lots of problems with this, because they don't want to deal with it.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's something that we just, I think, don't talk about, we don't talk about in society.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: But I think I read something or I watched something, but it was talking about like GM owns, like, like makes so much money off porn, right, just because they own like a TV channel or something, right, but it's these companies that we wouldn't even think associate themselves with anything pornography I would have to find it but I'm pretty sure they own, um, an AT&T, right, because AT&T own, you know, you think about like hotels and like the porn channels and things like that, right, they're all coming through, you know, whoever owns them at the top of the line.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: But it's, it's correlations that we don't even think about, right, I mean, gm, you think about cars, not porn, but it's, you know, it's just such a thing that we're so desensitized to, I think, as a culture, cause it's just like, oh, he watches porn, like whatever.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: We don't even think about it, right, and I think it's conversations we're not having within relationships, you know, um, you know.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I mean I know I've been in partnership with somebody before where I've sent a porn video for like inspiration of something that that turned me on.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: But then you don't think about but there wasn't actually a conversation around like the usage of porn within that.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: So it's like beyond that, I don't know what my partner was, how much they were viewing or anything at that time, right, and so you know, and even you know you talk about having that conversation with your children because it is really detrimental to their development and their sexual views.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: But it's such a topic that we just as a society, I feel like it's like it's so taboo.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: You don't talk about sex, you don't talk about porn.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: What you do behind closed doors is yours.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've even had people who don't want me to masturbate and I'm like, but that's so healthy for me to do, and even in a partnership, because I'm still learning my body, then it better helps me tell you what I'd like and what I want.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: But it's just that whole topic of like no, you can't do that.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: If I'm not pleasing you, then I'm failing or something right.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: There's just so many labels and stigma and like there's so much attached to it and we just I don't, I don't know.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I do know where the discomfort, I think comes back to, and then you know, that's a whole other conversation.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: But it is really important to start to have those conversations, I think, with our partners.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, how do?
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: How do we begin?
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Right, is there a healthy alternative to porn or is it something that we just have to like, you know, especially, I mean, if we have an addiction to it?
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Then I think that's another thing.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: But like, how do we even begin to break that?
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: And like, normalize, you know, our addiction?
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Not normalize the addictions, but just the, maybe fantasies, or having that conversation within a relationship and just making it more, less taboo, I guess.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I think what's important is not to use porn as a crutch for your relationships.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: That talking about what you're wanting in a healthy relationship is good, but if you're having a more open-hearted relationship like Tantra is really about your own self-esteem.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: If you are on a high vibrational level and you have healthy self-esteem and you're not wanting to get into toxic relationships with toxic people, that really makes a difference.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: That then you're kind of on your way to tantra, because tantra and sex is about spirituality.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: It's mixing, it's it's uh, we what I call what we say weaving sexuality and spirituality.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: You have a more healthy type of experience, more open-hearted.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: You're allowing yourself to be vulnerable People that have these porn, fantasy, sexual things.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: They're not vulnerable, they're not vulnerable to themselves, they're not letting themselves be open, they're not vulnerable to the people that they're with.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: So it needs to change back to romance, basically the way it used to be before porn was a huge part of people's lives.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: But that takes work and you gotta want to do that yeah, I mean I think that the intimacy has been taken out of sex.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean I've definitely had sexual experiences where afterwards I'm just sort of like that there was, yeah, there was no romance.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: There was like there was, yeah, there was no romance, there was no connection, there was like nothing.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: It was like, you know, it just didn't satisfy that part of me.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: You know where I was, like I and I've used sex.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: I think it's false intimacy in the past as well, you know, in in my wounding and in my own, like healing and things like that.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Um, but when we're yeah, I mean having that conversation, I had a question that completely went out my mind.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to recall it.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: But oh, tantra, that's what I was saying.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I have, you know, I've read a couple of books on it and I'm not, you know, super, super well-versed.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: I think it's really fascinating and really interesting, and I also think that it's something that we don't have an understanding of fully.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: I think we think of like Kama Sutra and things like that, and that's like the extent of like our knowledge of what it is Right.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: But I've been of the mind, I've been sort of, I guess, on my spiritual journey for about six or seven years now, but it's having sex with somebody.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: I had read somewhere, I don't remember where, but it was like when a woman has sex with a man energetically, you know, you're, you're exchanging energies, and I think it's um, and it takes they said it takes like 18 months for the woman to actually fully detox from that sexual experience.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: And when I learned that there was someone that I had been dating for like two, two and a half years and we had sex on the first date and I swear I'm like there was, I think that's what would just like kept me in that situation, you know, because it was like that, like pull, and there's so much more than just the sexual experience.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Right, energetics are being exchanged, fluids are being exchanged.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much and it's so deep and we just are, whether it is through porn, we are so disconnected from the spiritual essence, I think of sex and you, when we started this talking about sacred sexuality, you know, and I think that that again, that is something that needs to be coming back to sexual experiences, because we're just, we're not.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: It's there and it's happening.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: We don't have the awareness of it, you know, and I think, however many sexual partners you may or may not have, you're creating a tie to them.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: You know, in some way shape or form and yeah, I mean energetically.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: You've said like porn being low vibration, you're still that energy is like coming into you.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: You know, if we're looking at a spiritual perspective, and so there's, if you have that a tie to it, of course you're gonna bring that into your relationships.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Right and you're going to bring it into other people, relationships with other people, because as women, women we have men entering our bodies and because they're entering our bodies we are receiving their energy and if their energy is low vibrational, we are holding on to that energy unless we clear it.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: So people, you know they go through and when we're young, like I, when I was young myself, I went through a lot of different partners and you don't realize that you're holding on to their sexual energy and if you're with somebody that's really low, low, low vibration and toxic, that's what you're carrying around with you.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: So people don't realize that.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: They think that you know, I'll just, you know, go out and have sex with 50 people.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Well, you're carrying all that their energy with you as you go.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and all the partners of that person, right.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: So I mean, yeah, I've thought about that.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: I had an ex that had more partners than I I like never even wanted to know.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: I knew it was a very, very high number, right, and I never like specifically wanted to know.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: But yeah, just thinking about they're, they are picking up that energy right and they're bringing it in inside of me.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: So then I'm taking on that energy right and that, and that relationship was very low vibrational.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: I I could feel it all the time.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: That's the one relationship I was in where I started watching porn.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: That was my very short period where I would watch it.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Um was in that in that situation and so, yeah, I definitely do.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Women carry more of that just for the fact of like being penetrated and it's coming into our body than men.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think so definitely.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Women hold more of that because we are being penetrated, they're putting their life source is of low quality, then yes, we're taking all that in.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: So you know, sacred sexuality we need to get back to that.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: It's really important.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: And how do we begin?
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: It's really important.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: And how do we begin?
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I think, by starting to heal ourselves, looking at our boundaries, looking at our own sexuality, what we are willing to accept.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: If I'm at that point now, if I find somebody whose only interest in me is sex, then move along, because I want somebody, want somebody's toxicity in my body and I don't want to feel like I need to just be cautious of who they are, their vibration, what they're doing.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: I want to get to know them.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: And yeah, there's people that you know will go out on the first date and just do whatever, and if that's what you want to do, that's, that's great, and I used to do that too.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, when I was younger I did that.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: But for me now, now that I understand Tantra and about being vulnerable and being able to be very sexually open with somebody, then I want to know that it's reciprocal, that it's going to be, you know, not just me giving, giving, giving, but they're giving back, and giving back emotionally, not just physically.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: It's got to be emotionally.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: So, learning about yourself, learning about your body, learning about boundaries and wanting to have more self-esteem is something I think that first of all, I think you need to work on yourself and then you can meet somebody where they are at and the higher vibration that you are at, you're going to meet somebody that's of the same vibration low self-esteem time in your life.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: You're not going to be meeting other people that are of high vibration, because that person of hybrid vibration won't you guys won't mix.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: You guys won't, you know, be on the same level.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: It sounds like a lot of that self-worth work and I've been navigating that for a while in my own journey and I know we hear that whole like six week rule or I know people have different things about when you're dating somebody and it's taken me a long time to really fully appreciate that, because sometimes I'm like, oh, I have my own needs in this, not the other thing.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: But I think when you do have sex with somebody, then your feelings change.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: At least I can speak for myself, right.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: If I'm dating somebody and I'm interested but I'm not sure yet, and then we have sex, then all of a sudden I have a lot of feelings and then I can't see beyond, you know, what I may have seen otherwise and, like you said, that, getting to know that person so you can actually know, okay, well, now I know that I want to have sexual relationship with them, not just for that but for all of it, you know, and really having that acceptance beforehand.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: So I'm still experimenting with with the timeframe, you know, cause there's been people who I've waited for months for and then it didn't work out, and there's people that you know shorter periods of time.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: So I think, just listening to ourselves right, and I think internally we do know when it is the right time.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know that there's a specific time frame.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: I think just yeah, getting the actual time to like know the person and trusting the person, yes, yes, we're all on our own journey and you may go through life and find people that may or may not fit what you desire and finding out sexually is part of it are on that journey and your self-esteem and your and your boundaries are in place.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: It's easier to discern to what.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: What people are uh, the best type of people for you is there any healthy porn at all?
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: healthy porn at all.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Um, there's a website.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Uh, now what's it?
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: What's it called?
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: Oh geez, it's porn that's more geared towards towards women, and it the it's actually run by a woman, is it erica?
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: lust.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I saw.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: I used to watch those.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: I went through a little phase where I was watching those because I felt I found it to be more empowering.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: I guess for women it was more women-centered.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Is that something that you find like?
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: If a man is trying to overcome a porn addiction, is that something that men do you feel like would be drawn to?
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: It depends on how far down the rabbit hole they've gone.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: But if men have a porn addiction they should actually just stop.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: It's like any type of addiction, any type of addiction, men should completely stop ejaculating, masturbating and watching porn.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: For the first they say three to six months, and you know so they get it out of their system because their neurotransmitters in their brain have changed and it's almost like, you know, having a drug addiction.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: They want and they need that dopamine hit and it's kind of used as a not even just totally a sexual outlet but used, you know, for stress, like they say oh, you know, I'm stressed out, I need to watch porn.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: So they need to really figure out how to do that.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: And, like I say, I have like an eight-week program for men that teaches them how to stop.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: I use a lot of spirituality.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: I don't just use Tantra, I use Theta Healing.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: I use a lot of spirituality.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: I don't just use Tantra, I use Theta Healing, I use Reiki, I use all these other spiritual aspects in order to get them to become more spiritually minded and it makes it easier for them to finally quit.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: But they, they need to want to.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: It's it's a difficult journey and if they don't really want to.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: They won't that?
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: they have to have a reason yeah, and it sounds like you know like a lot of addictions, whether it's alcohol, drugs, sex.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: I mean you're getting that instant gratification, getting the dopamine hit, you're chasing something, right?
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Um, does it tend to transfer from porn addiction to then sex addiction if we're trying to cut one thing out, or usually, if they have porn addictions, they usually have sexual addictions too.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: but, um, that can go either way, because there's a lot of men that no longer want to be with a woman if they have a heavy porn addiction because they are chasing the uh, they're no longer finding real women attractive and they're chasing, like the only fans, women, you know, the ones with the perfect bodies and the beauty and all of that.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: So it depends on the person, I would say.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: But usually porn addiction and sex addiction go hand in hand yeah, yeah, that I don't know.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: I that the idea that somebody you know doesn't want an actual physical partner due to it, that I don't know if that made me feel something.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: I don't even know that I have the words still to articulate what.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, I don't even know that.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: I have a follow-up question for that.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: But that was it's just it's difficult to hear.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: That, I guess, is what I'm gonna say you know that yeah, it's, it's well.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: There's two things that are well.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: I mean obviously the dopamine hit and the porn addiction.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: But they, because they're so used quite a bit, they tend to lose sensing in their penis, so they start grabbing harder and harder and harder, so it makes it harder and harder and harder to ejaculate.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: So they need that grip in order to be satisfied.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: I call it the Darth Vader death grip, because that's what it reminds me of know when darth vader is like.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: So then a woman just isn't tight enough essentially to make it happen, yeah, yeah.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: So I mean, how do we begin to like?
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think we touched on this a little bit, but how do we begin to like?
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think we touched on this a little bit, but how do we begin to like, have these conversations, you know, if we're dating or with a partner, if we feel like something, I feel like it could be an issue, or to normalize just the conversation?
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I think we start with our kids, having that conversation with our kids so that they understand what's going on.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: Secondly, I think we set boundaries and we have conversations.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: We need to have conversations with them about our sexuality, about having healthy sexuality.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: And if we're finding that you know like I was when I was internet dating that everything was turning into the porn fantasy.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: When sex isn't reciprocal, when they don't treat you like you're human, when they don't respect your boundaries, you have a decision Either you leave them or ask them to change.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: And if they do really love you and care about you and they want to change, they will take those steps, even though they will be difficult.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Those steps even though they will be difficult.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: But if they're not willing to do that, then I say bye-bye, it's not worth it.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: You're not there to heal their problems.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: Their healer, that's not what you're there for.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: They got to be willing to take that step and if they're not, then they're bringing you down to their low vibration instead of you helping to raise them up to their high vibration.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we can't change anyone.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: No no, that the hard way.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, we've all done that yeah.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think it's easy.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe, yeah, I feel like it's probably easier.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: You know, if we're entering into dating intentionally with, yeah, Boundaries with you know if we're entering into dating intentionally with, yeah, boundaries with you know I've made lists of, like, what I'm looking for and what I can bring to the table and what I'm expecting Right.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: So if I feel like a boundary has been crossed, you know it's.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: It's a little bit easier in the early stages of dating to be like, hey, this isn't working, you know, cause you're not emotionally invested to that point, You're not in love yet, You're not committed.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: And I think it's.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I think it is more challenging once you've reached that phase of a relationship where you know you do love somebody, and it's harder to face the issue and work through the issue.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, I think sometimes we, we want to believe that we can change somebody else.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: Right, I do have a course that I created and it's on Thinkable and it's called Boundary Bliss and, first of all, I think learning about your own boundaries and realizing that your boundaries matter is one of the first steps to having a healthy relationship.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: Mm, hmm, yeah, I think that's what a lot of the work comes back to right Is really having that worth within ourselves to be able to say no and to be able to say this isn't what I am looking for and this doesn't meet my needs.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: And I think, especially as women not to say that men don't have that issue, but I think a lot of times in dating or sexual relationships where it's just one-sided, and I think women specifically aren't really taught to enjoy their body, to find pleasure in their body, to be able to communicate that elsewhere, that elsewhere, you know.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: And so then, like you said, going back to the beginning of the conversation, then we become people pleasers and you know, we, then we always, then we see porn and we're like, well, this is how I'm supposed to be, I'm supposed to give you everything that you want, and so, yeah, I think that's that's a huge piece to that work is really coming into yourself and understanding.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I find that when I work with women, there's a lot of women that are with men and they tell me what, what's going on, what they're doing, and it's, it's all one-sided and I'm like, well, don't, my sexuality doesn't really matter and and yeah, it does, you know, otherwise, they're being used.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: They're being used, it's just, yeah, yeah well, how can people work with you?
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: how can they find you?
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: I will, of leave everything in the show notes as well, but if you just want to let them know too, Well, I'm on a couple different websites.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: I'm on torontotantraca, I have my bio link, so bio link dash Jalila, my bio link, so bio link dash jaleela.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: And um, I'm on facebook and instagram and all of the the ways there's a many different ways of getting a hold of me and when we do, we sit down and how we can have like a 30minute free conversation on what is going on so I can get to know you, get to understand you, and then we can work together.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: And, like I say, I do have a course that I created called Boundary Bliss, and it's unthinkable.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for coming here and having this conversation.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, it's so important to normalize it and we have to start somewhere right, and so, just sharing this information for people who maybe don't know it's an issue, or maybe they have an issue and they don't know how to deal with it or how to bring it up, I think this is a really powerful conversation for those people.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, definitely a really powerful conversation for those people.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, we got to start right.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: Exactly Got to start somewhere.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah definitely.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you so much, thank you it was wonderful being here you.