Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #154: TradGeek Kevin Merrow Talks PA Whitetails, Traditional Archery & More

Transcript

Wired To Hunt Podcast #154: TradGeek Kevin Merrow Talks PA Whitetails, Traditional Archery & More · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This is episode number one Tay
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the show. Dan and I are joined by Kevin Merrow,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: a bow hunter from Pennsylvania and host of the trad
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Geeks podcast, and we're going to talk about bull hunting
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: white tails, traditional archery, and dealing with target panic, and
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: much much more. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: brought to you by Sitka Gear and Tan the show.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Dan and I are joined by Kevin Merrow, a bow
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: hunter from Pennsylvania and the host of the trad Geeks podcast.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: And today I'm hoping we can talk to Kevin about
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: chasing Pennsylvania white tails and the trad part of his
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: podcast name that being traditional archery. I'd say every year
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: now I keep hearing more and more about people dabbling
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: with trad gear, kind of adding that to what they're doing,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: and a number of my good friends have too. So
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: we're hoping to pick Kevin's brain today a bit about
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: what that change has been like for him, what other
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: things hunters should consider if they're trying to add this
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: to their archery game and a whole lot more of that.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: So I don't know about you, Dan, I'm I'm personally
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: too partial to my compound to try traditional, but I
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: know a lot of guys are interested in it, so
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: it should be an interesting conversation. Yeah, I tell you,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: the first person that I'm going to call when I
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: ever do make the switch. It's not gonna happen in
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: the near future, obviously, but I might pick one up
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: for fun. But the first person that I'm gonna call
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: is today's guest. Well, that's perfect because we're going to
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: make that call here soon. And uh, and he's just
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: a good dude. Kevin's a good guy, and I think
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: there's some interesting things to talk about when it comes
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: to white tails and some of his Western trips. And uh,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know. He's also a hunter podcaster father like you,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: so we might be able to pick his brain about
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: that too. Yeah, the podcast minds are gonna meet today. Yes,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: that's gonna be that's gonna be the game plan. But
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: before all that, what's what's going on with you? Man?
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, whoa, I had a couple just a squig
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: of coffee that went down the wrong pipe right there. However,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: we were talking, we're talking before we started recording. How
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: early on in the podcast, you know, like three years
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: ago or whatever it was. We were young and so sprightly.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: We would start every podcast and know what kind of
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: beer you got? You got this beer, and you've got
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: this beer, and we're pretty cool. And now it's like,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: how many cups of coffee have you had to drink today?
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: More than the doctor's recommendation? I tell you that, I
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: know I was. I was kind of dragging this afternoon.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I literally just got my cup of coffee off the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: machine and and in the room in time for you
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: to call. So, so what we're gonna say. I don't know.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I've been shooting my bow and I am I don't know.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I'm just excited to start shooting again. I put it
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: down almost for six months, you know, uh, the bow down,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: to be honest with you, And now I'm picking it
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: back up again, starting to get the you know, the
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: sites sided in. I'm using a one pin where I
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: have to put one of those UH tapes on it.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: You know, you you shoot it at twenty, then you
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: shoot it at sixty and then that tells you what
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: what tape you need to put or what label you
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: need to put on your on your site. And then
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I'll start honing really honing it in there. And uh,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: actually after this podcast today, I'm gonna go, um visit
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: my buddy Mitch at the bow shop and he's gonna
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: be building some arrows for me. I'm going and I'm
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: going four foot is this year interesting? What's the reason there? Well,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I hear from all the talk that I've had on
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: my podcast that four fletch really studies the arrow out
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: um in flight. That creates a little bit more drag,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: which means that the arrow becomes straighter and that you know,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: like you've you've seen an arrow come off a bow
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: slow motion, right, it's all you know, flimsy and going
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: all over. The fletchings are what they do is they
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: straighten that out. They stop that from happening. And if
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: you put add some guys believe that four fletches will
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: make that happen faster. And so that's my goal. Basically,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: it slows the arrow down a bit, but it creates
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: a straighter arrow, a better flight, and uh that's the
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: that's the hope. Anyway, nice accuracy, that's the main that's
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: the goal. Yeah, gotta put the arrow where you want to.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: That's the fact. My man. I've been I've been doing
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: the same thing. Actually, I've been out shooting mind the
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: house and it feels good. It feels good to be
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: shooting and dropping the dropping the arrow in the bull's eye.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: And uh man, there's no we we talked about every week.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: It's probably annoying, but I'm just so excited. Um and again,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: you know, it's just this time of year, for whatever reason,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: when it starts feeling like summer, it just it just starts.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's that new phase of the year.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: And just standing sitting behind the house in the yard,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: shooting the bow, watching the crops popping up around me,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: and just like thinking about, you know, snacking me too
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: long Now, I wanna be in a tree. Um. Yeah,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I'm just I'm I'm raring to go. I've been doing
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: a ton of white tail stuff lately. Um, all this
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: well not well, I don't know, a bunch of the
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: stuff we talked about last week in the podcast been
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: executing on so over the weekend, I pulled a stand
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: and pung a new stand up in um. In one
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: of those locations I mentioned to you where I had
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: seen holy Field pop out a few times along that
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: field edge, but I never had a permanent set there.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: So I got that hung up and trimmed out and
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: all set. And another one of the stands that I
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: saw holy Field from a number of times where I've
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: got to full draw on him. Um. I improved that
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: stand location a little bit by going there and adding
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: more cover around my stand so that I would just
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: be even more secludes. I got that set up. UM.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I started digging in one of my water holes. UM,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: got that partially buried. It was just a little bit
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: too wet to get it all the way in. It
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: was like standing water in the area I wanted it
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: right now. Everything's like super super super flooded. Um. So
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: once it drives out, I'll get that buried all the
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: way and um and it killed the turkey. Yeah, I
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: saw that. Congrats man, thank you sir. I was able
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: to fill it in like the fourth to last day
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: of the season. So it isn't turkey hunting fun, just
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: someone who passed the time. It is fun. It is fun.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I Uh, I had had a weird season because I
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: was gone for most of it, so I just had
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: I only actually went out myself twice. Um, the other
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: four times I went out, I was guiding people. But um,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: but I got done. So let's outfit fitting deal out
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: of your house. Well, so far everyone I've got quote
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: unquote guided has been a friend or family. Um, but
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: so you're currently not charging what I'm saying, currently not charging.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: But the point I'm trying to get to is that
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: nobody would really pay me, so I wouldn't be worth
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: the price. We have a success rate. Yeah, it's a
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: it's been. It's been some good years and some bad years.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: This year was a little tough. But but I actually
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I actually played. I had my buddy calling most of
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: the time for me this week and I went out
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: with my friend Andy, and um, we were kind of
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: running and gunning on some different property than a buddy
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: of mine owns, and um, just try some new spots
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: and had to hit a couple of different farms because
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: they weren't talking at all on another on the first
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: place we went to. But the second spot we heard
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: some gobbling far off and I got set up and
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Andy got on the call for this one and it
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: worked out and actually Hen came out and she started
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: making a bunch of noise, and so we started going
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: back and forth with her, and that was enough to
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: get the get the boys excited, and they came in
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: and rolled on. So fried turkey coming up soon delish. Yeah,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: So turkey seas is done. White tails are in the
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: white tails are in the future. So do you get
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: anything white tail re laid done this weekend? No, I
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: talked about it. I'll tell you what. We had planned
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: to go fishing this weekend and the water was just
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: way too high on the river, so we stayed home.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Got a lot of stuff around the house done. Um yeah,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: I mean it was nice enough to where we were
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: outside a lot. I was just playing. I just spent
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of time with a family. Now, either this
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: weekend or the next weekend, I will be setting up
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: trail cameras and um yeah, so that's the goal in
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks. I checked one. I checked
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: one trail camera. Nothing. I mean, it's a it's a
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: property that's kind of secondary. A couple two year old
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: bucks from based on their body size. Nothing, nothing worth
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: talking about. And uh, you know, I mean I'm in
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: a holding pattern until I can get out and go
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: set cams up. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to get mine
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: up to I'm probably gonna do that here soon. And
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: I've got access to a couple of spots I think
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: might be where holy Field summers. Um, So I'm gonna
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: put some cameras out there and see if I can
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: confirm that suspicion. Do you have any velvet pictures of him? Ever? Never?
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Not once his his core range shifts. Yeah, yeah, I
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: mean he I've never seen him before September. I think
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: the last two years it's been like September. Uh, let
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: me think about this. I don't know, maybe second week
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: of September that I've started seeing him and getting pictures
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: of him. Um. So, yeah, we gotta get some velvet pictures.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: We gotta see you with this big boy looks like
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: this year. Oh I bet she's two fifty. I wouldn't
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: go that far, but I like the optimism, right, So
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: exciting stuff ahead, my friend. But we're gonna have to uh,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: we're gonna have to shut up here and get our
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: guests on the line because we started a little late today.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: So let's pause for our sit Coast story and then
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: we will give Kevin a call for this week's Sitkast story.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: We're joined by Andy Or from Dear Society, who tells
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: us about an encounter with a Southern aibil book that
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: was desperately looking for a fight. So the story of
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: this hunt begins. Um, it's November four. One of my
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: po staff guys, Tanner Hartman, and I were headed out
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: to hunt together. It was my turn to film, so
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I'm in the camera seat. He's hunting. Tyler. Tanner decides
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: he's gonna rattle, so he grabs black racks, starts cracking
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: them together and just mixing, you know. Five yards away,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: here's this tree. The top of this tree just starts shaking,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: and Tana and I are just you know, having fits
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: because we can't see what bucket is. It's all honeysuckle
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: and thick and trying to figure out, you know, what
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: the year is this we're hearing over here or seeing
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: this tree shake. And he starts to eating towards us
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: and starts to come clear of the brush, and I
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: can see it's a good tent. Pointer Tanner picks him up,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: and the buck passed right through the shooting lane that
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: he had before. He really even made a decision whether
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: or I got shooting. He just wasn't sure if it
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: was the buck that was that was old enough. You know,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: it's just a three year old or a four year
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: old or a five year old. Who is it? And
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: so the buck passes through that shooting lane and goes
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: about seventy yards down the ridge. Um, Tanner, I whispered
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: to Tanner, you know, hit him again with the black
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: racks if you'll turn around. And he cracked the horns together,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: and I bucked just you know, right on camera, just
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: turned on a dime, came straight back to us, comes
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: right through the same shooting lane and stops. Tanner had
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: no shot at it. Incredibly close to send in an arrow,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: but he didn't have a shot that he was comfortable
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: with through all the stick stuff. So the buck moves
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: on and the same thing again. Tanner decides, you know,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I'm wanna see if I can rattle him back. So
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: he grabs the black cracks for the third time, rattles
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: them together, and that buck turned around at about sixty
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: yards and came right back to us. Really really cool,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: encountered because he stopped at about eleven yards and was
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: just looking all around and looked up into the tree
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: at us, you know, looking at us, looking around, looking
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: the left, looking right, and just completely relaxed, stopping and
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: put a perfect strike on and just just a beautiful
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: shot buckling about fifty yards and chode and the timber
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: and just an amazing, amazing morning to be out in
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: the timber, you know. And uh just just couldn't have
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: been any happier with the waist that could perform for us.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Just amazing. On Andy's hunt, which can be seen on
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: the Pursuit Channel in July, he was wearing Sitka's Stratus
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: jacket and pants. If you'd like to create a sick
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: of story of your own, or to learn about Sitka's
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: technical hunting apparel, visit sitka gear dot com. All right
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: here with this now is Kevin Marrow. Welcome to the show. Kevin, Hey,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: thanks for having me, guys. Yeah. Absolutely, And I want
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: to tell you everyone listening that Dan Johnson just told
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: us that Kevin Merrow is the Cameron Haynes of the
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: traditional archery community. So is that true? Not? It's I'm
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: sure it's posted somewhere, right, I've had to have read
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: it somewhere. I highly doubt that I'm not. I'm not
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: in the shape that Cameron Haynes is, although I try.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: You know, he's definitely got me and Dan beat, that's
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: for sure. So most people have me beat. Yeah, fair enough.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: So Kevin, you know, we briefly introduced you at the
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: top of the show, but um, can you give us
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: a quick lowdown? Who you are, what you do? Um,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: what you do in the white tailed world? Which you
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: think about all this dear stuff? Yeah? Absolutely, Well, first off,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: as they said, my name is Kevin Marrow Um from
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: western Pennsylvania, specifically punk Satawny, Pennsylvania. It's the home of
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: the groundhog. Unfortunately, that's what but that's what puts us
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: on the map. I guess born and raised here, lived
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: here all my life. Um a chiropractor by profession, and
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: on the side, I run a small business for the
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: industry trad geeks dot com that it's basically around traditional archery.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Grew up hunting here in Pennsylvania with my father just
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: eager to get into the woods at a young age.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Primarily grew up rifle hunting until around sixteen. My dad
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: never archery hunted, but I felt that riful season didn't
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: give me enough time in the woods so that that
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: kind of drew my interest into archery. Learned learned pretty
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: much everything on my own and hunted with a compound
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: for for all those years up until like six or
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: seven years ago, and I made the transition into traditional archery. Um.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, white tell us primarily what we
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: hunt here in Pennsylvania, small private parcels primarily, and the
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: deer don't get like they do in Iowa. Um, but
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: they're still you can still get some, you know, good
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: deer here in the States. So that's about it. So
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: so I feel like if there's any other state that
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: can relate to Michigan, I feel like Pennsylvania is the
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: one for for a couple of reasons. Number one, and
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have to correct me on all this if
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I'm wrong, But from everything I see and read, Pennsylvania
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: matches Michigan when it comes to hunting pressure and participation,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: tremendous number of hunters. And then number two, it matches
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Michigan as far as tradition. There's a really, really, really
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: strong tradition of deer hunters and deer hunting in Michigan.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: And my uncle grew up in Pennsylvania, And he has
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: a deer camp back in p A And I've gone
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: there and visited and hunted with him a couple of
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: times way back in the day. And from everything I
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: gather from there and from that situation, it seems like
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Pennsylvania is a very similar culture and tradition there. Is
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: that true? Do you guys have a really unique strong
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: culture there in tradition when it comes to white tails? Oh? Yeah, absolutely, Uh,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: you know, primarily I would. I would call it, you know,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: we call it the Orange Army, and and there's a
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: lot of small, small camps and and guys get together
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: for rifle season and and hunt with pushing deer and
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: driving deer on small small parcels. Um. But yeah, absolutely
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I would. I would relate it to Michigan and New
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: York rather closely. Um. You know me specifically, I didn't
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: come from a big family of a lot of hunters.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: It was primarily my dad and my brother and I
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: going out together. But yeah, that it sounds very similar
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: to Michigan and uh, Upper New York, but yeah, and
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: very different from Iowa. Absolutely, although I haven't made it
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: to Iowa. Um, you know, I have hunted a little
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: bit um and scouted in Ohio a little bit like
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: in areas like that, but not like Iowa. I was
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: going to say this to the end of the episode,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: but I just can't hold it in anymore. We have
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: a special surprise for you today, Kevin. You have been
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: given full access to Dan's hunting properties in Iowa, full rain.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I can hear you, guys. I'm pretty sure Dan already
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: gave me the invite. He said, just get a tag
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and get out here. But I have not even I
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: don't even tell that. I wouldn't tell that to my wife. Yeah,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: you get a hold onto that, your hunting holding. That's funny.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: But p a deer hunting Tell me a little bit
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: about what the deer like there, um and, and let's
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the differences here, because you know,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: most often we've got guys here on the podcast who
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: are hunting Iowa or Illinois or Kansas or Ohio. Um.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: A lot of people chase deer like that. A lot
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: of people talk about deer in those areas. Not as
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: many people talk about, you know, spots like Michigan or Pennsylvania. UM,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: So just tell us a little bit. Can you tell
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: us a little bit about what the deer. I don't
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: know what what's it like there? How is it different
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: than some of the things we see on TV? I
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: would I would say it's definitely different, primarily because of
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: the small part souls and the pressure pressure being number one. Uh,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: there's so many hunters in the woods compared to you
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: know out west or in Iowa. I would assume, I
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: don't know the numbers are all the statistics, but the
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: pressure is super high and the parcels are small. I
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: grew up hunting, uh, you know, very rural areas like
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: close to towns um and a lot of just you
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: know population. So for me, I grew up hunting really
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: small parcels that it took more of. These deer are
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: hard to pattern because they're always getting bumped by people
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: or traffic or whatever the case. Maybe now you can
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: find bigger parcels and big you know, state game lands
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: here in Pennsylvania, microphone, but yeah, it's it's harder, harder
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: to have success in those areas, just like anywhere else.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: So I've stuck to little, little parcels and been successful
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: um on those areas. So you can't pattern pattern um
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: as well. It's primarily just you know, sent control and
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: setting up on heavy trails and hoping for the best.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Um Since then, you know, and that was kind of
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: growing up. Since then, I've been fortunate enough to purchase
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: my own property and and lease a property next to that.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: So now I have a hundred and thirty acres and
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: I can start to do a little more quality deer
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: management with that, food plots and hinge cutting and and
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: kind of creating a scenario that it's going to work
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: for me with that. With that set around that hundred
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: and thirty acres, I have a lot of Amish. So
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: the Amish here in Pennsylvania don't like to follow the laws.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: They don't pay attention to trespassing signs or anything like that. So,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: you know, the first few years, I spent a lot
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: of time just getting to know the community and and
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: getting them know where I stand with everything. So it's
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: kind of calmed down now, but it's really hard to
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: even do you know what you see these other guys
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: doing with management. Because of that situation, the deer here
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: are getting poached a lot, so there's a lot of
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: pressure from the Amish on the rids. So what you
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: find is the deer are very skittish, and you know
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: they do not tolerate any pressure whatsoever. So last year
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: I had a a nice buck, you know, probably in
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Pennsylvania that's a really you know, acceptable deer. Um had
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: him patterned on my property, my new property, and it
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: was getting trail camp pictures of him every morning. Was
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: waiting for the right wind to go in and kill
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: him because I knew exactly where he was betting, and uh,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I waited. I think it was like the second or
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: third week of archery season when I got that northwest wind.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: It was a crazy year. We had a lot of
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: southeast winds the first couple of weeks, if I recall correctly.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: And so anyways, I waited for that right wind went
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: in to kill him, and he never showed up. And
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: you know, I listened to your podcast, you know, all
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: the time and things that Dan in Fold has said.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I really like to try to follow his his mindset
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: because I think it's a cool way of hunting. He
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: didn't show up, and I just knew it was wrong.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: I knew something was wrong. I should have seen him. Well,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Luckily I had a camera set up in that betting
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: area for a couple of months that I never went
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: to check, so I I just said hack with it,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: and I went and checked it, and sure enough a boy,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: an Amish boy and two dogs went down through the property. Um,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: a couple of days prior to me hunting it, this
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: this barn burnt down over the hill from my property,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: so that Amish were using my property to cut back
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: and forth to help rebuild this barn, and he was
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: bumped in. I have v l a eyes on him
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: since then. But you know, things like that are happening
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: all the time here, which you know, I know that
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: happens in other places. But uh, the big thing is
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: they do not tolerate the pressure in Pennsylvania like I.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I think they maybe tolerate more other places. UM, I
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: know this isn't I don't know if this is the
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: direction that we're we want to go with this, But
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: I've heard similar things said about those people, you know,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: by others. Right, So what happens when you go and
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: you try to confront them or you talk with them about, hey,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: do not go on my property, you know, do not
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: you know, please don't do it. You know, you probably
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: start off nice. What's what's their reaction? Like, Well, I
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: did a lot of investigating with other people that ran
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: into this issue here in Pennsylvania and what what the
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: best approach was to take. UM. What I found is
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: they don't really care about the loss. So if you
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: call the state police and have them knock on their door,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: they'll just pay the fine. They don't worry about it
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: too much. They feel that any dear is their dear
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: and they have the right to go anywhere to hunt it,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: so they don't follow the laws one UM. So I
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: didn't want to take that approach. The first proach I took, obviously,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: was confronting them, telling them nicely to stay off the property.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: If they didn't want to listen to that, I would
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: take the next approach. So I did the first approach.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: They didn't listen. I caught him a second time on
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: a cone hunting in the middle of the night. I
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: ran them down all my quad and caught a handful
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: of them, probably eight different amish that night UM and
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: told them once again sternly to stay off. And that
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: didn't work either. So I came up with kind of
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: a a different approach, you know, thinking outside the box.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: How can I work this in my favor? So I
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: started treating the Amish professionally as a chiropractor in the
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: community out of a little like tax shop, you know,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: they sell you know, all kinds of goods and foods.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: So I'd go in there on my Tuesday nights after
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: work and treat the Amish only to get to know them. Um.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I got some financial kickbacks with that, and and my
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: main thing was to get to know everybody in the community.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: And very quickly I got to know uh, they forget
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: what they call him, but the head guy of the
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: the Amish um pretty much is the law in that community,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: so they do respect them. And I got to know
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: him very well and told him what was going on.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: The big thing is the Amish don't like to get
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: their pictures taken. They say it like affects their soul
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: or something. So I saved all my truckh and photos
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: of them and took him to the head guy and
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: he told me exactly who it was. And through that
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: connection and getting to know the community, M very well
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: respected now in the community. So it was kind of
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: a different way I had to approach it. But the law,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: like going to the state police and stuff like that
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: didn't seem to affect what they wanted. To do at all.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Any issues since then, now I haven't that I'm aware of,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: you know, Um I did. There was without one issue
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: where it was the most important. One is when they
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: that young boy went through the property with the dogs,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: um and he was just they were just kind of
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: using it as a shortcut to help build that barn
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: at that time. Uh you know. So now I catch
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: them walking around and walking the rids, but just that
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: one time, and he was a he was a young kid.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: He's probably twelve years old, you know. So there's not
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: much I can do there other than I did approach
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: his parents and and they're aware of the situation. But
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: it seems to have been a lot better. And I
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: didn't catch anyone hunting on the property this year, which
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the year before I had all kinds of problems. So wow,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: that's really interesting, and I think it's a it's a
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: great example I think of even something that would be
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: helpful outside of a situation like this with the Amish community,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: but really any community. Sometimes it does come down in
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: relationships and just trying to establish some level of like
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: mutual respect, and sometimes that's more impactful than the law. Yeah, absolutely,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, especially in that and it's all situational and
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: getting a good read on it. I have another neighbor
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: that was he kind of thought the property was his
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: for years and we had to get through some surveying
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and he was disrespecting my signs
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: with quads and everything else, and I had to get
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: a law on him. Two or three times the state
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: police are called to his house. And ever since the
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: survey and everything was done, I haven't had any issues
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: with him either. But um, you know, it's kind of
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: a small We live way back in the woods, probably
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: a quarter mile back in the woods off of a
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: dirt road is my house. So they had this camp
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: on the back side of my property that I I
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: could only see it if I went up over the
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: ridge and uh he he would just say it's his
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: property and come on it without any regards to what
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I wanted to do. So with that instance, you couldn't
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: even have a good conversation with him. It was just
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: that's what you had to do. That was your only option.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: But I want to play Devil's advocate for a second.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: That you are giving up your time, you know, and
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I know you said you got some financial kickback, but
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: whether you want to do it or not. Yes, you're
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: you're you're going in there and you're in you're you know,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: setting up ties with their community, which is what you
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: had to do. But you shouldn't have to do that.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: In my opinion, it's your property. You should be able
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: to do whatever you want on it, and if that
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: means keep a certain group of people or anybody out
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: of it for that matter, you should. That should be
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: your right as an American taxpayer. Yeah. Absolutely, And for
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: whatever reason in this area, the state police just the
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Amish in my eyes, and I could be wrong, but
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: they just don't seem to want to mess with them.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: And that's even poaching. A lot of people in the
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: neighborhood have called in the game commission to try to
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: come out and catch them poaching. Um, but there are
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the Amish community is strange. There are good people in it,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: just like us, but then you got the bad ones
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: just like us also, and and they like they're sneaky
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: as you can be. I mean, it's not unlikely for
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: me to go home, um after podcasting or something late
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: two or three in the morning and they're out on
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: their buggies just strolling around in the middle of the night.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: It's like they have nothing better to do. They don't
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: have TV, they don't they don't do anything. So the
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: kids go out and shoot deer for fun. Um. You know,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: it sucks, but that's just the way it is. So unfortunately, Yeah, Dan,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I had to go out of my way to make
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: sure that I, you know, could have the hunting that
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: I have for myself, my kids or whatever. But didn't
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: you Mark, didn't you have something where you live? Guys
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: shooting from the road or maybe I'm mistaken. A while back,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: I didn't have anything specific. There's definitely been a lot
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: of rumors of that kind of thing happening, um, but
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I don't have There wasn't like a specific deer I
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: was after or something like that, and I have I
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: haven't caught anyone doing it on the farms that I
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: hunt around here. Um. There is a large amage community
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: around here, so I never really thought about that, but
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: that certainly could be UM. And don't want to pre
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: judge anyone around here at all, But because it's not
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: just Amish, everybody can do it. We've got a guy
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: next to where I, uh, where I hunt, who's been busted.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not joking. Probably ten fifteen times for poaching illegal
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: activities uh as far as dear game or game violations,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: trust passing, whatnot. And they're not going to take you
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: to jail for that kind of stuff. They're gonna find
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: you and they're gonna take away your license. But that
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: only works so much, you know if they continue to
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: do it. Okay, pay the fine. Okay, I'll pay the fine,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: pay the fine, pay Okay, you can't hunt anymore. Okay, Well,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: I guess I'll just pay the fine if you bust
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: me again. Yeah, And that's that's the approach they take. Uh.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: They don't have to worry about driver's lace and you know,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: they don't have to really worry about anything because they
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: don't they don't have that stuff. So it's just the
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: fine and there. They're pretty wealthy around our area. Um.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: But you know, and another thing they do is like
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: any pond or lake in our area of good luck
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: trying to catch a fish in it, because they'll go
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the night and take all the
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: fish out to who you know. That's just the stuff
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: they do. Um. But yeah, talk about that forever. Well.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I had a really nice Almish family helped me renovate
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: my barn. So yeah, there's that. It's not necessarily like
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I said, it's not necessarily Amish, right and it And
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: like I said, there's there's great ones too. I have
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: relationships with other Amish that I actually get to their
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: house and treat them. A lot of my patients are Amish.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: I have good relationships with them. But there's there's a
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: select few that that just ruin it or give it's
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: just like anything else, to give them a bad name
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: or a bad rapp But it would happen if you
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: went onto their property. I don't know. I honestly don't know.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: I did have one Amish guy. He was walking up
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: on my property her rifle hunt and I was on
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: my way to work and I just stopped along the
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: side of the road and said, what are you doing
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: And he said, I'm going in here to hunt. I said, well,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: this is posted property. It's it's my property and I
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: don't allow anyone on it to hunt. And he said,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: well what about second season? I said, no, no hunting whatsoever.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: And he said, well, we better not catch you on
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: anybody else's property if you're if you're posting property, you're
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: not allowed hunting. On anybody else's property. And I said, well,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: I will be just hunting on my property. However, if
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: I have permission to hunt on someone else's property, I
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: will be there. And they they're, you know, they're throwing
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: a big up for war because they don't have any
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: property to hunt anymore. So a lot of times they
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: purchased property that's all field, not not woods or standing timber,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: so they don't have any property close by to hunt,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: and they get they get frustrated, which I understand that.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: You know, but if you want to kill a mature
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: deer in Pennsylvania on a regular basis, you have to
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: either post your property or have a good piece of
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: property that is private too hot. So so let's talk
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: about that. Um, how how the whole process of you
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: buying this piece of ground go? Because it sounds like
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: that's something that happened fairly recently. And then i'd love
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: to hear about, you know, what that property was like
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: when you purchased it, and then you you mentioned you've
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: been making some changes to it, so I'd be curious
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: to hear what you've done so far. Well, I purchased
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: this property two years ago. Um, Luckily it was a
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: family friend that owned seventy four acres and he was
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: looking to subdivide. There was an old farmhouse an old
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: homestead on it that I was interested in, so he
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: subdivided it to me, and I bought thirty acres in
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: the old homestead, and then next to me there was
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: a fifty acre piece that was there was no homes
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: on it or anything like that. He the guy basically
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: bought it for timber rights and it was vacant. So
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of the Amish were hunting that property because
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: it wasn't posted. And I had access to my thirty
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: acres and the other or forty three acres whatever it
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: was UM that the other guy owned that I bought
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: off of, so I had the permission to post all
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: of that property UM from myself. When we first got there,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: the population was pretty low due to how much pressure
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: it was was on the property because it was never
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: posted and anyone could hunt it, so the population was low. UM.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: It's all standing hardwoods, not a lot of thick cover,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: but it it has a lot of really good potential
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: on the top of looking at a topos so UM
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of good pinch points and funnels and and
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: talking with people around the area. A lot of deer
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: were killed off that hillside there. Um. Some of the
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: property next to me has been managed for quite a
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: few years, so there was I knew there was potential
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: in and there was a lot of good deer around.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: So what I did initially, Uh, I talked with my
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: good friend Mike Groman. Mike is from that area. And
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: when I talked to him and told him I I
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: bought this property, I told him who I bought off of,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: and he goes, Kevin, I've hunted that property all my life.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I know exactly where you need to have stands, everything
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: you need to do. And actually this hunter, you know,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Mike is a very good hunter, perfectionist um. And and
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: we have we have a mutual friend, Nick Penzado. He's
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: the president of CEO. So Mike, Mike Growman and Nick
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Penezata grew up together. They're best friends. So Mike Groman
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: as a level two dear stewart ISTUM, so that you know,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: it was just like perfect for me knowing that what
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: he knew and him being a level two dear stewartist
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: and Nick and all the connections, I was like, all right,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: this is is great. You need to come out to
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: the property, Mike and show me what I need to know.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: So he came out and kind of set up like
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: a five year plan for me of where I need
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: to start creating cover, putting in food plots and such.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: So so far, all I've done is has opened up
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: some areas that were already there and and put in
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: some brassicus and clover and planted those and and managed
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: the property so patrolled the area. UM, not worried about
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: my success, just trying to get the property under my
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: control and keeping people off of it because there, you know,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: the deer were just not there. Um. So after doing
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: that the first year, I started to gather information from
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: my neighboring properties that were managing deer and trying to
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: figure out what they had that I didn't have. Um.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: And the one thing that they had more than I
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: had was cover. They had so much cover it there's
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: no reason for dear to even beyond my property. Uh.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: So that's where I started with the food plots and
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: trying to plant stuff that they might not be planning
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: to catch them in second season or rot on my property.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: It's really not that far. It's quarter mile, not even
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: to where this main area is at that they like
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: to bed. So I got permission and they let me
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: shed hunt that piece, and I went in there and
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: picked up quite a few nice sheds off the neighboring property.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: So I knew they were staying there primarily, but during
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: pre rot and rode out get pictures of them, you know,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: coming through my property. So my focus right now is
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: creating a few cover areas, embedding areas where h you
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: know too, I have two groups of dough on my property. Um,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: so I created those areas where these deer already liked
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: to bed and and just made them thicker, trying to
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: keep them, you know, in a a good area. So
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: when those bucks do wanna when those five years or
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: three year olds or four year olds do want to
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: come off of the neighboring properties, I know where my
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: doughbeds are, and I know what those bucks are going
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: to be potentially doing to uh, to get with those doughes.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of my focus so far is in
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: the first two years is little baby steps. Um. The
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: one thing Mike told me when I first started this,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: He's like, it's a long process. You're not going to
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: benefit it from it, but your son, Finn will and
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: and he's right, you know, I'm seeing slow improvements in
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: the numbers are up, the deer numbers are up. But um,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: I'm just enjoying the management side of things. And if
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: I end up shooting a nice dear due to my efforts,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: so be it. But hopefully in the years to come,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Finn will have a lot more success than I've had.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: What kind of have you seen any changes in this
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: so you've been doing two years? Yeah, so is there
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: anything noticeably different, anything you can point to the other
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: than the deer numbers being up because of patrolling my property,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: not too much. So. The other issue that I ran
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: into is on my thirty acres, we have our homestead
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: and that the homestead set vacant for two and a
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: half years, so there was no activity. And then even
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: prior to that, the lady that lived there was older
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: and she didn't spend a lot of time outside and
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: didn't have any animals in it or anything like that.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: So when we bought the house, you know, we have
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: two young kids running around, We have a German shorthair
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: that loves to run around, We have goods, we have chickens,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: you know, so there's a lot of activity. So initially,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: you know, I I knew that it was going to
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: take the deer a while to get accustomed to our
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: presence there um. So if anything, you know, the numbers
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: have been up and the deer slowly adapting to us
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: being at the house. I had a buck in the
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: yard yesterday, and it's the first time I've seen a
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: buck that close to the house. That Actually, my son
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: had a soccer ball out in the yard and he
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: came up and was sniffing the soccer ball. You know. Um,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: he's probably only a year and a half year old
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: or something like that. He wasn't real big, just had
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: some stubs grown right now, so I couldn't tell, you know,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: other than body sides what he was. But that kind
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: of thing wasn't happening in the first two years. So,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: you know, the food plots are close to the house,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: the sanctuary areas are rather close due to the size
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: of the property. So those those little changes I've seen,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: but nothing drastic um so far. It sounds pretty cool though,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: having a spot like that, your own place right behind
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: the house and you can kind of start molding it.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: That's that's the dream, I mean, that's what I always
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: dream about when I think about trying to buy some
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: land in my own just the ability to make be
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: able to make those change as you want where you
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: want them, the ability to you know, to have a
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: blank canvas that you can paint on. Yeah, that's that's
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: really cool. What's the food look like? I mean, are
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: you gonna plan on putting any food plots in? Yeah?
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: I've put in three food plots now, um Brassicus and
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: turn ups the past couple of years. And it's almost
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: like the deer still trying to develop a palette for that,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: if if they even do that, because they haven't really
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: messed with it too much. And then some white clover
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: and you know, and and red clover, which they really
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: enjoy right now. So those do well through the summer months.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: But uh, you know, I was really hoping for good
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: things this year, but the acorns were so prominent this
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: year that they just didn't have the need to travel
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: for food. They were everywhere. Um but like you know,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: back to what you said, Mark that that's what I
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: enjoyed the most out of it. And it's the little things.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: So if you're you want to start doing this or
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: by a small parcel. It's it's hard to not get
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: frustrated with all the things like the amish or the
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: intruders and not seeing quick changes. But it's the little things. Uh.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: For instance, my son and I were down kind of
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: digging a little water hole below the food plot last
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: year and uh, my my short hair was down with us,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: and she came flying through the woods with a shed
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: and it was just a little spike shed, but we
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: were so excited to find a shed that close to
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: the house. Um, after all our hard work, you know,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: and little things like that. And and this year, I
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: shot a buck on the first day a rifle season
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: with my recurb and I thought he was older than
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: what he was and he was still in rout when
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: he was pushing a dough down past my stand, and
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: it was a quick decision. I shouldn't have shot him,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: but I did. And uh, I'm I'm I'm happy that
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: I got him on my property that close to the house. Uh.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: It's just it adds so much to the hunt when
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: you when you do all the other things throughout the year, um,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: you know three so oh yeah, was that the first
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: year you've killed on the property, on my property? That
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: was the second, dear, because I did take a doll
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: early season with my bill. Also very cool now I
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: saw I didn't actually get to listen to the podcast
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: of yours a little bit. I get to listen to
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: a little bit. But there was an episode you had
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: a while back about the Niner Buck. Yeah, that's that's
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: a buck you shot in two thousand fifteen. Is that correct?
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Two thousand and fifteen, Yes, that was the That was
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: the year that she shot that buck. That was a
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: cool looking buck. Could you tell us that story? Yeah, absolutely, Um,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: the Niner Buck was a buck that my father was
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: getting on trail camera, uh, through the through the pre
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: rut and when where my dad lives, it's almost in
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: the city limits, but it's outside the city limits. So
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: that's where I grew up hunting. And uh, we've we've
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: shot a quite a few nice bucks out of this
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: particular little piece. And he was getting trail camp pictures
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: of this deer and and my dad nicknamed him Niner
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: and he hunted him pretty much all year. And I
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: wanted to stay on my property and hunt just because
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: I had it, and I was putting so much time
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: into it, so I didn't really want to leave and
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: and Dad kept saying, why why don't you come hunt
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: this buck? Why don't you come hunt this buck? And
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: it's close to my work, and I could hit it
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: up in the mornings if I wanted to. And I said,
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: now you get it, you get it. And Dad didn't
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: want to move his stand and he was in the
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: same spot, and I said, you need to be, you know,
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: two yards east of where you're at, and you need
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: to be in this and that I've killed some other
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: deer out him. I'm good where I'm at, and he did.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: We just kept playing that game back and forth, and
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: finally the one morning it was there was a nice
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: cold front coming through, and I messaged Mark, my buddy,
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: and I said, hey, you want to come film me
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: in the morning. I said, you can shoot any buck
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: you want. And Mark, Mark's a that type of hunter
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: that if it's legal, he's going to kill it um.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: And in Pennsylvania we have point restrictions, so in this
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: particular unit, it has to have three on one side,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: so two up in a brow. And so I told him,
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: I said, you come film me, but if this one
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: buck comes through, I want to shoot this buck. He
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: said okay, And I was running film because I didn't
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: expect to see him, and we saw six or seven
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: bucks that morning, and they all just kept winding us
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: and working around us. So I thought, we're not going
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: to see him. But if a mature deer works through
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: that area, I knew it would be from around nine
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: o'clock to ten o'clock for whatever reason, that's that's when
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: they come through. And and sure enough I heard Mark
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: whisper to me, big buck, big buck. And I turned
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: around and this buck was kind of unique. He had
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: a really long brow brow tyne on the one side.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: So I turned around the tree and saw him. I said,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: that's him. Well, this deer stopped at like fifteen yards
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: and trying to Mark. He's like, I could shoot him
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: right here, and I was like, don't, don't. He said
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: I won't. So we kind of had to switch rose
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: real quick, and uh. I ended up getting that deer,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: you know, and my dad was in a stand probably
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: two or three dred yards from me, So it was
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: a it was a cool experience to to get that
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: deer and my dad be there and Mark to be there,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: and um, you know that that particular area for us
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: always seems to do well. Dad shot a nice buck
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: three and a half year old out of that same
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: spot last year, and then I killed one and two
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: thousand and I think it was two thousand and ten.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: That was a pope and young deer too. So we've
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: we've shot a lot of good deer out of that
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: same bottom year in a year out and when we
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: I just I've hunted it all my life and kind
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: of got it down to a science where I know
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: when the mature deer are going to be in that
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: area and what time, just based off of um the
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: activity that goes around getting like happens around that area.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: It just seems like you're in a year out, within
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: a within a five to six day span. If you're
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: in a tree all day, you're going to have an
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: opportunity at a nice deer. So what what makes that
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: spot so good? Why do you think that is a
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: place you can depend on like that? I'm curious, you know,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: if there's some kind of topographic feature or terrain or
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: cover what makes it tick. It's a it's a long
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: bottom and it has pinches on both sides. Um so
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: one just the way that the land lays out there.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: It's a creek bottom with pinches on both sides and
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: the pressure around it. It's significant. The one thing that
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: I think stands out the most is these deer like
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: to go down in this bottom in bed during the
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: day and it's primarily dough groups. So again I'm hunting
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: dog groups that I know in this time frame that
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: one of them is going to be hot, and when
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: she is, these bucks will be cruising this creek bottom
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: looking for her, and just the way it pinches out,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: they have to come by us. So you know that
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: if that answers your question mark, yeah, yeah, definitely. Gotta
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: love a spot like that during the run, Yeah, absolutely.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: And you know, like I said, these are small parcels,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: so the deer have to move if they want to
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: find dough and and they have to move through this points.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: You know, that's that's just how that there's just not
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: enough woods. So we know they're there, and we know
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: where they spend most of their time throughout the year,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: and it's not there. So we literally don't run any cameras,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: we don't have to hang any stands, but we know
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: that if if we're not on anything else, if we
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: go in there in those six days primarily you know,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: the last six days of October, we'll have a good
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: chance of killing one. So when you mentioned you know
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: all these small parcels, are the terrain features on all
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: these small parcels different or is there a consistency across
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: the parcels as well? You know, for example, let's say
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: there's four in a row right. One guy is not
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: a farmer, so he just lets it grow out and
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: you know, or he has like an apple orchard or
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: something like that, and then all the way from bare
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: ground that there might be egg on. Is it all
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: different or does it for the most part all run together. Yeah,
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: it's all different. It's rolling hills here. Um. Not every
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: little small piece of parcel is good. It's finding that
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: one like we have done where the terrain just adds
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: up and I have found that it it's not so
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: much the food, it's not so much the cover. It's
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: hunting those dough groups. Um, during that peak period, you know,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: because these deer, because they are so pressured a lot
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: of times they're nocturnal. Uh So if they are coming
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: to food, they're coming late and you just don't have
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: a crack at them, you know. Other than those few
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: days for instance this year when my dad killed his buck.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: It was a perfect wind, perfect morning, good cold front.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: I unfortunately had to be the early so I slept
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: in and that morning my dad, while I was in
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: the shower, sent me a picture of the deer he killed,
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: and I looked at it, and then the next thing
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: I knew, four or five other pictures came in. So
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: all my trad buddies here in Pennsylvania, there was like
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: five bucks go down that same morning, you know, just
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: and it that's how it is. It's very hit or miss. Yeah,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: dear get killed all the time, but when it's a
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: good morning, it's just boom boom, boom boom. Because you know,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: we had we know how to hunt these small parcels
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: and if you can find those pinch points. Um, I
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: just I feel like that's probably where it's at on
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: the smaller pieces, dan Um, before we before we shift
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: towards archery. UM. I know you wanted to to ask
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Kevin a little something about some of the Western adventures. Yeah, man, Um,
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: I saw that you went on a um muled your hunt,
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: and I believe was it with your father. My father
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: talk to us a little bit about that trip, how
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: you planned it, what your what your goals were, and
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: and uh tell us that story. Yeah, so, uh, it
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: was probably four years ago. My good friend asked me
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: to that they were going to South Dakota to do
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: it yourself type of hunt for mule deer over the
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: counter tags, no points, preference points or anything like that.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: And it's a it's a cheap hunt. So if you
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: get a good group of guys together, you can go
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: out there relatively cheap and and hunt mule deer, which
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: to me sounded awesome. Um. I always wanted to go,
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: you know, on a spot and stock type of hunt.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: So we went out. The first year, there was eight guys.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: None of us had any success, but we had a blast.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: We saw a lot of deer. Um. I think half
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: the guys had traditional bows and half the guys had compounds.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: So after that I was kind of hooked, and I
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: believe I skipped one year, and then in two thousand
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: and when I was two thousand and fifteen, I went
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: back out with my buddy Mark again. He harvested a
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: dough out there, dough mule deer, and I missed a
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: really good mule deer probably hunter and eight inch mule
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: deer with my with my stick bough. I just shot
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: right under him, and it was a poke. It was
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: a far shot, but I got that whole spot stock
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: type of thing. I watched him bed down, waded to
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: the the sun was high, and and worked in on him,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: and he kind of the wind shifted and he caught
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: my wind and he was at thirty yards and he
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: kind of bounced out to like forty five or fifty
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: and I took a shot, my only shot, and just
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: shot underneath them. So that kind of got me addicted again.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta go back out there. Um So,
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: then last year Dad and I and another friend decided
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: to drive back out to South Dakota. Well, we actually
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: flew last year and um I went to a new region.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: So this is my third third time in the same area,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: which is the Black Hills of South Dakota. Um And
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: and this year, finally I made it happen and shot
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: a little forky mule deer and was just as happy
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: with him as I would have been with that hu
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: mule deer. It's tough hunting. It's not easy, and even
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: some of the the big mule deer hunters that killing
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: nice mule deer every year. South cox And and Theose
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: guys have hunted South Dakota for mule deer do it
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: yourself type of hunting, and And said it's probably one
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: of the harder states to get it done. So, yeah,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: this year was the first year out of three that
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: I was actually successful with getting one awesome something that
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: you're going to continue to do then every year. Yeah, Uh,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: this year, I'm skipping the mule deer. I'm actually going
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: out to Utah. My good friend out there, Matt Davis
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: with Mountain Oops and bited me out and we're gonna
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: do it over the counter. Elkcont so awesome. I'm going
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: out the end of August, so it's a really early
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: season hunt. Um, and we're gonna primarily hunt uh, spike
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: only units because they're they're flourished and and cow. So
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: I'm not even trying to kill a big bull. I
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: just want to kill an elk. So get that elk.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Mute man, It isn't absolutely that's the goal I am.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: I'm missing my elk in the freezer, that's for sure.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: So that's that's awesome. I can totally see why that
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: seems appealing that kind of hunt. It seems like an
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: absolute beautiful area. Every time I've driven through South Dakota
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: and the Black Hills, I'm always just like, why don't
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: I hunt here? I need to hunt here? Um, And
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: it's crazy the Black Hills. You know, we hunt primarily
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: the burn areas. Uh so you know, big fires went
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: through there and they're there's just timber and laying down everywhere.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: So stalking in on on these meal DearS extremely difficult imagine.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: But that's where, that's where they're at. So anybody looking
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: to get to South Dakota and hunt Black Hills, get
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: to the Burns. Just wait till next time you show up.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: Hey are you? Are you Kevin Man? I heard you
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: on the Word Home podcast. Well, I've kind of found
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: I've I've found a few other tricks, so I'm not
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: really hunting the burns anymore. But this is this is
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: this is a diversionary tactic. I understand it's not it's
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: not far from the burns, but yeah, that's the general
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: area the burn areas. Fair enough, fair enough, so so
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: let's let's switch gears here. But first, let's take a
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: quick pause. Are a weekly dose of white Tail wisdom
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: from our friends at white Tail Properties and here is
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: producer Spencer Newharth. This week with white Tail Properties. We
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: are joined by Gabe A. Dare, a land specialist out
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: of southern Iowa, and Gabe is gonna be telling us
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: about what the primary factors are that make for quality
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: hunting ground. You know, there's a there a couple of
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: stick out. I guess the most, Um, I want to
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: be neighborhood. I think you've got to have You've got
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: to have the structure around you. Um. I've even seen,
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: you know, in my line of work, I've seen an
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: enormous farms struggle, you know, and I say enormous, I'm
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: talking thousands, fifteen hundred, two thousand maker farms struggle. If
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: you don't have structure around you, like minded neighbors, you know,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: on the same program, at least close to the same program.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: Everybody's gonna have their differences, of course, but you know, UM,
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: I think you've got to have, you know, the right
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: people around you to really get deer to that up
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: or age class. And so I think that's first and foremost,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: and then that kind of lead into the second one,
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: where you know, depending on what you're after, Um, you've
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: got to be in the right area as far as genetics,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: you've gotta be moren't big you're at. You know, if
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: if if you're an area where your your your goal
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: is a shoot hundred five year old buck, obviously there's
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: a lot more places that a guy can get into
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: something like that. But you know, definitely the second one
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: be if you're after top top end. If you know,
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: if everybody's wanting to shoot Bunting Crockett type animals, or
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: even that that new pinnacle that I deal with more
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: and more every day is too under you know, I
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: hear about it, deal with it, and see it way more. Um,
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: you know, you've got to be where those animals even
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: have a chance to be. And so you know the
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: two things I would say, and obviously neighborhood structure around
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: your property, and then your property has got to be
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: in an area where it's gonna where it's gonna produce
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: or have at least have a chance to produce what
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: you're wanting to harvest. If you'd like to learn more
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: and to see the properties that Gabe currently has listed
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: for sale, visit white tail properties dot com. Ex slash
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: a dare that's a d A I R. So let's
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: let's switch gears here. Um, because you, Kevin run the
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: trad Geeks podcast and website. Um, so I want to
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that because actually we have
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: never talked about traditional archery on the Wired Hunt podcast.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: I think, ever, wow, Yeah, which surprising given a lot
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: of people are interested in it and I personally, you know,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: I enjoy shooting my compound, but I know a lot
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: of people you know, have been trying out trad and um,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: I want to pick your brain about a little bit.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: So I guess first tell us about real quick, trad Geeks.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: What are you guys doing there? Well, trad Geeks I
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: started six years ago. Um, I was there was some
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: traditional archery forums that were out there that we're basically
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: geared to the sponsors. So if you had anything negative
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: to say about us sponsor, you got booted off the forums.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: And that just pissed me off right away. And uh,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: I thought, well, if you can't get on here and
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: and state how you feel about a company in a
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: nice way or in a positive you know, as good
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: as you could say a negative thing, I guess, um
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: without getting blocked or booted, that's not any type of
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: form that I want to belong to, So within two days,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: I started my own traditional archery forum and it did.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: It did okay, and we had it was a nice
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: place for my friends and I to get on there
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: and talk about traditional archery. But my mind never stops thinking,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: So I started creating more and created a blog on
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: top of that, and the blog led into videos and
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: film and and then that led into a podcast. So
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: now you know, tray Geeks is an educational site where
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: you can come on there and and learn how to
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: get into traditional archery UM and also you know, pick
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: our brains. But you know, now it's kind of more
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: switched into a content producing website, So we produce a
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: lot of content for other companies through my website. UM,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: and now we're we're focused more on producing content and
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: the apparel side of things, so now we sell traditional
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: archery shirts and hats and stuff like that. So more
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: of a brand now, But that's just kind of evolved
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: over time. So if you want to learn about traditional archery,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: the podcast is where you're going to get the education.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: Awesome said that you guys have definitely done a good
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: job with it. I've always been impressed with what you
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: guys have put out, and I think to your point,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: like you said, it's a brand. You're building a brand there,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: and that's that's important. So so why why traditional? Why
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: did you end up picking up a traditional bow and
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: kind of adding that to what you do well? For me,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: I I had a couple of friends, one specifically UM
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: that was into traditional archery, and and in two thousand
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: and ten, when I shot that pope and young deer
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: with my compound down in that spot where I was
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: talking about earlier, I shot him in it was the
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: biggest buck I've ever killed to date, and I was
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: super excited. I had trail camp pictures of him. I
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: I I was hoping to get that deer, and I
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: shot him and I watched him fall. He went thirty
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: four yards and just piled up, and I called my dad,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: and as always, I called dad first, and then I said,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: I just shot that big eight point. He gaes, why
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: aren't you excited? I said, I am. He said, you
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: don't sound it, and I thought, no, I'm not. I'm
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: not as excited as I should be. And I get
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: pretty worked up after I shoot a deer. But for
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: whatever reason that that situation, I just didn't get that
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: worked up over and when I got up to him,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: I was excited I did and all that. But I
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: talked to my buddy about it and I said, I
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: don't know. I don't I hope I'm not losing like
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: my my will to hunt in my excitement and all that.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: He goes, you just need to get a trad bow,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: and I ad, I don't know about that, and he
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: said no seriously. So he brought one over and I
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: started shooting it, and immediately I just I fell in
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: love with shooting it. Um, it was hard, it was difficult,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: it was a challenge, and you had to practice every day,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: which is what I wanted to do. I like shooting,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: and I wanted to shoot every day. But with a compound,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: it just I could pick it up a week before
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: season and it be hitting right where I wanted it to,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: just like the year before. So that primarily got me
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: interested in traditional archery. A lot of people, you know,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: you get that misconception and and I might get a
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: lot of hate mail for this, but guys say, oh,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: I hunt with a trad bow because it's it's more difficult,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: and maybe maybe out west it is hunting your dear
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: long range shots. But for me, if you practice with
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: one out of a tree stand. Um, I'm just as effective,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: if not more, with my trad bows here in Pennsylvania
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: than a compound. So you know, I just want to
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: throw that out there. It's it's not as as difficult
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: as people may think if you practice. But yeah, I
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: just that shooting more and all that got me interested
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: in it. And it is cool too when you when
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: you shoot a deer, have that and you know, we
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: could get into all the different type of shooting styles,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: but it just feels like you're more one with the
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: animal when you do shoot it, not having any sites
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: and and complete control of everything. You're not going through
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. So it's just cooler to carry a
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: trad bow in the woods, I guess. And your point
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: of view, do you see more people starting to do
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: this like pick up trad dear instead of you know,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: starting with trad instead of starting with compound. Yeah. See,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: when I made the switch, and I can't remember what
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: year it was, it was five or six years ago
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: when I made the switch and started the website. Uh,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: the brand and and uh you know kind of the
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: slogan was modern meets traditional and and my thought was,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: man if I made this switch to traditional archery at
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: a younger age. I see a lot of people going
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: back to it, and everything goes in cycles in this world,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: and I just saw that that potential, and that's kind
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: of what Another thing that perked my interest in starting
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: the website is seeing this, you know, convert hunter switching
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: from a compound to a trad and this past year
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: and this year, it's happening right now. I mean, there's
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of people out there trying to produce traditional
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: archery content now. Within the last year, a lot of
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: traditional archery podcasts are popping up now. A lot of
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: the celebrity hunters, if you want to calm, celebrity hunters
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: are now switching to traditional archery. And I think people
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: want or they're seeing the appeal to it, the satisfaction
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: in it. But also I feel that a lot of
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: people are switching to traditional archery for the wrong reasons.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: They're not switching to it just because they want to.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: They're switching to it because they see the the potential
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: with the media side of things and doing something different.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: So but yeah, Dan, I see a lot of people
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: doing it now. Interesting. I had thought about that last aspect.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: You talked about the the media in some ways driving
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: its um because there's like opportunity there from business exactly.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: And I see a lot of people switching to it
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: because I believe that they want to have that. You know.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: It's you see a lot of people and individuals converting.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: So now people are more people are wanting to see
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: people harvest animals with the traditional bow, and there's more
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: excitement because not that it's harder than with a compound,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: because I don't agree with that, but it's just something new,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: it's something different, even though it's been around for decades,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. So for someone who wants to pick
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: up a traditional bow, whether that be making a full
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: switch like you did, UM, or you know, just dabbling
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: in it and trying it out in addition to what
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: they're doing with their compound, what kind of things have
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: you learned as far as UM, you know, taking those
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: first steps. What what mistakes did you make that others
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: can maybe avoid. The first thing is a lot of
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: people that switch, they say, oh, I drawed a seventy
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: pound compound or sixty compound I need I could I
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: could shoot a fifty poundary curve no problem, or long bow. UM,
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: and to start that is just it's way too much,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: so there's no let off. You're holding that fifty five
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: or fifty pounds, So that's number one. If you're going
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: to get into it, get a light poundage bow thirty
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: five pounds, and get your form down and dialed in.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: And once you get your form down, um, it's really
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: not that difficult. I feel that if you're already you know,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: shooting a compound and and do things right and know
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: how to use your back tension and all the basic
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: form things, that converting to a traditional bow is not
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: that hard if you're not over bowed, uh, and then
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: you know, getting the right guidance for era selection and
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: tuning your stick bow. So a lot of people don't
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: think that there's a lot of tuning that gets involved
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: with a traditional bow. It's just a bow with no
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: sites and you just grab arras and start shooting it.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: And that's far from the truth. There's more tuning with it,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: probably than a compound. So you know, you don't want
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: to get too involved in that. You want to keep
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: it simple initially and just get a bow and start
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: shooting at closer ranges ten or fifteen yards and getting
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: comfortable with it um, but within a couple of weeks
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: you can start diving into it more and and after
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: that first year start going up and wait when you
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: feel comfortable. But it all depends what you're hunting to
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: I I feel confident taking a thirty five pound bow
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: and and shooting any white tail with it and not
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: having any problems. So mhm, you mentioned, you know, one
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: of the important things is getting your arrow set up properly,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: different things like that. Is there anything you can share
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: from a gear standpoint, you know, just high level stuff
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: as far as things that someone would need to think
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: about when they're going about and getting set up. Yeah.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: So with a traditional bow, everybody draws a certain length,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: just like a compound. Generally speaking, if you have like
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: a thirty inch draw with a compound, you're going to
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: be roughly two inches shorter than out with a traad bill.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: And that's a general statement. So at twenty eight inches,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: that's where your poundage would be, you know, to put
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: you in the ballpark. On the carbon side of things,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: carbon eras is what I shoot. You know, if you're
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: shooting fifty pounds at twenty eight inches, you're gonna roughly
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: want ten grains per inch, ten grains per pound a bow,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: So if it's a fifty pound bow, you're gonna want
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: to be shooting ten grains per pound. Roughly five hundred
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: spine or four hundred spine arrow is where you're going
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: to want to be with that, And then you know,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: depending on you know, with a five spine era, you're
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: gonna probably want around to fifty or three hundred grains
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: up front, and I know that might team high to
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: a lot, but with traditional archery, you really want to
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: have a high foc which is front of center weight,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: So most of your weight in that arrow you want
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: up front, So roughly or more with your setup, and
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: you know what we focus on with traditional archery, and
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: it should be across the board. But the compound industry,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: I feel, really chases speed. So a compound bow to
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: be able to come out with new bows and new bows,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: the only thing they can really do is either get
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: faster or get faster basically, so they're chasing that kinetic
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: energy and a lot of people get that kinetic energy
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: and momentum mixed up. So with kinetic energy you have,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: you know you're getting that from speed three ft per second, well,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: with a traditional bow, you're only shooting roughly. You know,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: a fast traditional bow would be two ft per second,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: and I have a couple, but most of them are
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: around a hundred second. So with all that high foc
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: and all that weight up front, that momentum of the
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: heavy head carries your arrow through the animal. So just
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: think of a set up of a compound bow drawing
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: sixty or seventy pounds, shooting three ft per second, but
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: also having a high foc arrow um. And this is
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: all dr Ashby's theory and studies. So if a guy
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: would shoot that type of set up, you know, they
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: could shoot through a car. They really could. Well, it
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: makes sense and it's one of those things I feel
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: like to your point, whether you're talking about tread or
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: compound bow, there's there is so much talked about when
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: it comes to speed, but there are a lot more
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: important things I think in the long run when it
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: comes to actually be able to kill an animal, you know,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: being able to get a penetration, being able to you know,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: actually aim well. Absolutely, And the last podcast we did
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: with my good friend Matt Davis, who I'm going hunting with.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: He he just got back from Africa, and killed quite
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: a few animals in Africa with a fifty pound re
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: curve and an extreme foc arrow. So when he got there,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: these guys thought, oh man, you're not gonna be able
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: to get it done with this. And he he did
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: not have any problems killing anything with passed through and
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: everything else wild or beast and and all that. So,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: you know, with a thirty five pound recurve and a
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: good foc arrow, as far as whitetail go, you'll pass
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: through any of those animals. And I kind of converted
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: my friend Mike Groom and that I talked about earlier
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: into traditional archery and his first bows a thirty five
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: pound bow, and he harvested quite a few doal with that,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: and he was just amazed at how that era slipped
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: through the deer like butter. And the other thing that
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: I you know, this is kind of getting off topic, Mark,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: but what I like about it is you think about
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: a compound and kinetic energy and speed, but not a
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: lot of weight up front of an arrow. It's almost
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: like you're slapping that deer. So you shoot it and
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: that deer just gets whipped. That deer is going to
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: run as fast as it can for as far as
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: it can, so that deer might make it too hundred yards,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: it might make it further. Well with a trad bow
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: and that high foc the era is going relatively slow,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: and that momentum pulls that with a sharp single bubble
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: you know, two blade broadhead, it pulls that era through
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: that animal like like you're getting shot with a needle.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: And from what I found in my finding is all
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: my dear within the last six years have only went
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: fifty yards tops, and I've watched them all fall in site.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: So there's something to that the trad world, in the
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: compound world, with the right set up, that arrow going
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: through these animals and them not even knowing their hit.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: So I think with a really sharp broadhead and the
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: right set up, you don't even really need a good
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: blood trail anymore unless you make a really poor shot,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: because the animals fall right in front of you. So
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: it's pretty cool to see that too. Yeah, I really
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: need to one of these days. This is one area
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: that I don't spend enough time on um even with
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: just with my own setup with my compound is really
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: fine tuning my arrow set up and making sure I've
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: got the right every single different little thing you just
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: mentioned there. That's one area where I always talk about
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: details and being detail focused and doing all the little things.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: And I do a really good job of that with
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: my hunting, figuring out where to go, when to hunt,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: how to hunt, all those things. And I admittedly have
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: not spent as much time dialing you know, the details
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: of my archery equipment. I practice a lot. I can shoot,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: but I probably could shoot even better if I applied
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: that same level of detail to the smaller elements of
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: my gear. Um, and I need to do that, so
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: um to your point of all these things they matter, Yeah, well,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: and we could. I could just keep diving into arras
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: and and now the nano shafts and the micro diameter
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: shafts and with that high fo C that that wind
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: doesn't affect your arrow as my uch and you have
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: tighter groups. But you know, that's the that's the most
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: important part to me, because you can do all the
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: things you're doing, marking all the right things and being
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: the right set up and shoot well, but if your
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: arrow doesn't perform, you're none of that stuff even mattered,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: you know, So you know that's definitely an area you
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: need to clean up on this year more than ever.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: I did a lot of research on that, right. I
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: did a lot of research on UM foc um, what
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: brought it, I was going to use, what arrow arrows,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: I was going to use UM all the way down
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: to my fletchings. I you know, I talked with guys
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: who were way more experienced than me, and that's where
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: I got my information. And this year, I'm my bow
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: is not as fast as it as uh the bow
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: that I shot the previous year, and my arrows are
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: probably a little heavier. So I am actually starting to
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: see a little more arch in my arrow flight this year.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: And you know, this is a compound still over the last,
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: but I'm shooting a heavy arrow that you know, if
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: there's contact, I'm not gonna have to worry about whether
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: or not it's getting I'm getting penetration because I've put
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: so much energy or thought into that arrow setup. Yeah. Absolutely,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: And I forgot to mention that's probably one of the
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: coolest things about TRAD two is just watching that arc,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: the arrow arc. So it's a pretty cool thing. But
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: that is cool even with a compound. I just love
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: when you shoot a long range shot six and you
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: just watch it rise and then drops right somehow magically
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: right to where you're putting. That is cool. That's a
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: beautiful thing, that's for sure. Yeah, except for when it
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't go where you want to go and then shoot
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: your play equipment. Yeah. Yeah, we're going up to this weekend,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: we're going up to seven springs to the Total Archery Challenge,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: and you know there's a lot of long shots and
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: shooting the trad bize that those targets. I'm sure we'll
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: lose a lot of eras, but it's always fun. So yeah,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: so so real quick, what about from a hunting standpoint,
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: if you're hunting, and I imagine that a lot of
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: the things that you learn when using a traditional bow
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: when bow hunting could be applied right back to if
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: you're using a compound bow, because I think it just
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: forces you to pay more attention to detail, is my assumption.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: But I'm curious, um, you tell me the truth. When
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: hunting with trad gear, how does that impact you're hunting?
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: How does that impact you're picking stand size or doing
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: anything like that. Is there anything noticeably different or you
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: are you're hunting just like you did before. Yeah, there's
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of similarities for sure, but there's a
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: lot of differences. Um, the main one is for me,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: and the biggest adjustment that I had is the bows
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: are longer, So you know, for as far as a
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: short trad AGAs you're probably at fifty eight inches, I
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: do have some shorter than that. I have one it's
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: fifty six inches, but that's about as short as they go,
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: and that's short, So you know, I have them up
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: to sixty sixty two inch bows as well. So when
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: you're in a stand, um, you know, I I hunt
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: out a lone wolf and muddy tree stands and they're
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: open in the front, which makes it easier, but you
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: have to worry about your limbs as more hitting branches
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: when you draw, so you really have to plan your
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: shots out to make sure that you're going to clear
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: your limbs when you do drop back, more so than
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: I did with a compound. And then you know, heights
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: is another thing. So higher you're getting in the tree
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: with a trap, but the steeper the angle, the more
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: you know room for air you're going to have. So
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: most traditional hunters try to hunt a little lower out
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: of the stand. Most of my stands are probably fifteen
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: to sixteen ft at at best, so you gotta make
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: sure you have a good backdrop, good cover, but you
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: can get away with that. A lot of traditional bow
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: hunters hunt off the ground and and stuff like that.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: My dad killed his buck this year and he he
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: doesn't like to get high. He might have been twelve ft,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: but it was it was the perfect tree. It kind
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: of went up and it split multiple ways, so he
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: had a lot of cover in there and the deer
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: never even knew he was there. But that, you know,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: those are some of the little things you have to
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: pay attention to with the traditional bow, wherewith when I
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: hunted with a compound, I just climbed a size I
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: felt like I needed to get and and didn't really
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: worry about backdrops and stuff like that as much. But
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: what about range, I mean, what kind of what kind
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: of range are you typically setting up for in the
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: most trend hunter. I mean, I've got a friend who
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: um was shooting with a traditional bull for a while
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: and he said, you know, if I got a buck
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: within twenty yards, I'm gonna shoot him. But anything past that,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: I don't think I could do it, or didn't want
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: to risk that is that like, yeah, you know, that's
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: that's a funny thing in the traditional archery world, you know,
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: in any of the archery world. I guess there's a
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: lot of debate. But um, I'm going to catch a
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: lot of hate mail for this too. But I like
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: to shoot far with my trad bill, And do I
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: want to shoot an animal at two yards? Yeah, I
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: mean that's what bow hunting is. You want to get
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: as close as you possibly can to that animal for
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: that encounter. However, if my you know, I work full
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: time and I have a family and everything else, so
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: it's tough to get out. So if that opportunity presents
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: itself and I feel confident at taking a shot, I'm
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: gonna take it. So I practice with my trad bill
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: for long range, and when I went out west in
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: South Dakota, I felt confident at fifty yards with my
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: with my bow. You know. So there's a whole whole
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: another side to shooting styles and instinctive shooting versus gap shooting.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: And there's different aiming methods that some archers use with
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: traditional bows. So with with that, if you have the
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: right set up and this specific bow is a zipper
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: Z four bow, and the limbs or Z four is
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: they're considered super curves, so they shoot very fast, so
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: the arrows shooting flatter, So I could really reach out
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: with that bow. But primarily, you know, in Pennsylvania, even
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: with a compound, your furthest shots a thirty yards shot.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: I have taken my mule deer. I took it like
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: thirty thirty five. I've taken quite a few deal at
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: thirty five yards. Most of my bucks were and under,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: you know, so obviously you want to get as close
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: as you can, but you can reach out there with them,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: and you can be sufficient at those ranges if you
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: practice and and you're tuned well and you have the
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: right setup. That makes sense. Here's the natural. A follow
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: up question though, and people ask the same thing of
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: people when you should compound book compared to a rifle
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: or something. When you go to traditional gear from a compound,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: is there is there has been quantified in any way
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: or researched or looked into. Is there an increase in
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: wounding rate when you switch to a traditional boat because
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: from the outside looking in seems more difficult, seems more
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: likely that that type of thing would happen. Is that true?
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: Is that false? What are your thoughts? Well, I don't
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: know of any statistical research data that would say that
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: there's more wounded animal with a traditional boat. I personally
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: feel that there's less. And here's why. If you're getting
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: into traditional archery, you've probably been in the archery world
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: quite some time, and you pay attention to the details,
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: the majority of them and not all of them, but
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: you pay attention to a see you practice every day
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: because it's it's just not handed to you what I've
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: seen here in Pennsylvania. They've allowed crossbows now, and any
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: any Joe blow can go to Walmart and buy a
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: compound and buy arrows and throw on broad heads with
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: a crossbow or compound and go out and shoot animals.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: And I see more deer being wounded with those setups
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: and the guys that are just not educated and it
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: than I do with traditional archery. I have a small
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: group of friends here that hunt with traditional bows, probably
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: eight or nine of us here and Punksy or punks
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: of Tawny. And I can count on one hand over
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: the last seven years how many deer has been wounded
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: and and we found them later. You know, they didn't
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: go that far so I don't think that that you
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: know that there is that many deer wounded with traditional
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: bows only only because of that mark is these guys
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: are putting in their time with this equipment. And again
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: I feel, even at an early stage in my long
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: six years of traditional bow hunting, uh, that I felt
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: confident at twenty and under just as confident with the
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: traditional bow as I did a compound. It's just it's
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: it's not as difficult as people make it seem to be.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: I think your points well taken about. Regardless of equipment,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: it comes down to your willingness to put in the
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: time and preparation and practice to make sure that whatever
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: you're using you can use ethically and you know, inflict
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: a mortal quick wound um, and that that's a responsibility
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: on all of us, regardless of what we're using. And
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: so I think it it's interesting that and from a
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: from a common sense standpoint, I think bow hunters in general,
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: when you're using some kind of vertical bow, you know,
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: and it becomes maybe more difficult as you switched between
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: the different things it usually pulls and people that are
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: more dedicated to using it, which usually would then lead
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: to you know, a greater attention decail detail leading to
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: high rates of success. So that that makes sense, um,
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: And it's I mean, it's an interesting thing to think about. Yeah,
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: in these like I keep going back to the era
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: set ups. My dad practices all the time. But he's
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: not that good of an archer, and he's the first
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: to admit that. And he's killed quite a few deer
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: with the trad boll and he never hunted with a compound.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: He got into archery four years ago, four or five
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: years ago, and he shot his fair share of deer now.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: And I can say this honestly. Not one of those
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: shots was perfect, not one of them was a great shot.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: But we did the right thing. We gave him enough time.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: And with that era set up, the way that those
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: two blade single bevels we shoot, the grizzly broadheads cut
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: and they just do a lot of damage. And these
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: deer don't know what happened, so they do not go
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: far before they bed down. So if you just give
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: them the right amount of time, they're there and you
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: can you can recover everything that you that you shot at.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: So that's another aspect of it. But yeah, it's just
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: making the right decisions and trying to educate yourself and
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: put in the time. Like you said, now, as somebody
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: who's gone from compound to trad where would you suggest
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: somebody starts. Let's say, whether that is a bringing a
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: child in or a kid younger person or someone who's
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: older who's just getting into bow hunting for the first time.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: Should Is there a preference on where you think they
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: should start? You know, I don't. I don't think dan
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: um like my dad, he started with a traditional bow,
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: and I had years of experience with a compound. I
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: didn't have much difficulty making that transition. However, I think
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: that transition is easier if you've hunted with a compound
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: and you've spent time archery hunting, I think that transition
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: comes a lot faster. The big the biggest thing is
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: is these guys that come from a compound to traditional archery,
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: they think they have to change all these all these
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: things with their shot, and it's the same. You draw
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: back an anchor just like you would with a compound,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: you hit your anchor point. You have multiple anchor points
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: with traditional archery. It's not you don't have to snapshoot.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: These traditional archers that just draw back and let it go.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: Has either shot like that all their life and have
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: become really really sufficient at it and are good at it,
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: or they don't know what they're doing. Is is what
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: I've found. And there are some guys that can snap
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: shoot like crazy, but the majority of good archers drawback
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: and hit their anchor. You watch all the Olympic traditional
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: archer guys, They're not snapshooting there. I'm back hitting an anchor,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: going through a psycho trigger and a controlled shot process.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: That Jewel Turner, you know, talks about traditional archery and compound.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: We've had Jewel on our podcast and I would highly
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: recommend looking into some of his stuff for guys that
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: have target panic with compounds or or everybody suffers with
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: a a little bit of target panic. Um. Jewel has
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: kind of really set the blueprint for how how you
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: can get yourself out of it. And it's all it's
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: all physiological stuff, it's all science, it's how our brain works.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: So if you if you follow that type of sequence
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: in your shot, it is not hard to switch from
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: a compound to a traditional archery or be successful with
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: a compound. So I don't think there's anywhere I think
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: anyone can start with a traditional bill, but the transition
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: is much easier if you started with a compound first.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: Can you lebrate on that last? So, regardless of if
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: someone listening right now shoots a traditional ball or compoumbo
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: right as you just mentioned, we've probably all to some
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: degree experience some kind of target panic. Um, could you
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: elaborate on that process that you mentioned? Um, I can't
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: remember guy his name you said, but well, what's this, uh,
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: this way of dealing with target panic? If you're talking
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: about so, his name's Jewel Turner and he runs iron
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: Mind Hunting dot com or iron Mind Academy, So what
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: what happens with target panic? And Jewel might send me
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: all kind of hate mail if I don't elaborate and
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: get a lot of hate mail on that if I
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: don't elaborate, you know, if I don't elaborate on this correctly.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: But to my knowledge, this is what happens. So, if
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: you're shooting with a compound, you you could have a
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: trigger release or thumb release or a back tension. Really,
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: when you have a back tension release, you don't know
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: when that shot is going to go off. So as
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: you're pulling through the shot, and you should be saying,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: keep pulling, keep pulling. That SHOT's gonna break unexpectedly. When
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: a shot breaks unexpectedly, you don't brace for impact. You
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: don't you don't brace for recoil, uh if if you're
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: aware of when that shot is going to go off.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: So you're lining up your kisser button, you're looking through
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: the peep site, you're lining in a pin up where
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: you want it. You're gonna say, Okay, I'm gonna pull
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: the trigger. You punch the trigger. You're gonna know that
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: shot is gonna break, and you're gonna naturally brace for
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: that that shot, which causes torking and and all kinds
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: of stuff what and specifically target panics. So as soon
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: as you get a when you know that SHOT's gonna
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: go off, you're gonna you brace, and that's what causes
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: target panic or you're gonna lock off target because you
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: don't want to. You're body's natural mechanism for blocking that
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: shot is going to protect itself and you're not gonna
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: wanna lock on target. So with Joel Turners shot process theory,
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: and it's just it all makes sense, it's all science
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: that but he just kind of set the blueprint for it.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: So what we try to do is you create a
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: psycho trigger. And what a psycho trigger does is it
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: allows you to not brace for that that shot. So
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: you have to have a psycho trigger. In the traditional
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: archery world, can be a clicker on your bow. So
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: it's a mechanism that goes on a limb and there's
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: a string going to your string and as you draw back,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: when you hit your anchor and just start to engage
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: your back, the clicker goes off and makes a click.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: That click tells your your brain to let go, and
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: when that happens, it's such a quick mechanic receptor response
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: that you just let go and you don't brace for
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: this shot. So through all that and psycho triggers or
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: back tension releases and good mantra, which is words you're
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: telling yourself certain words as you go through your shot process,
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: you will not have target panic to the degree that
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: you know you struggle severely with it. It's it's basically
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: the blueprint to get out of target panic. Interesting, and
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: there's there's so there's so many people. I'm sure that
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: this is uh intriguing too, because I think we've all
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: at some point or another head issues UM. And I
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: know a lot of people have tried the back tension
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: releases UM or just you know, all the different things,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: just blind shooting at hay bales and with your eyes
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: closed and slowly learning to to get that surprise release. UM.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's something that I think can be
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: talked about for a long, long long time because there's
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: no secret quick fix and unless maybe the back tension
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: at least I haven't used one. But it's interesting here
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: about this. It all has to do with your conscious
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: and unconscious thoughts. So you want to try to reach
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: that unconscious mind where things just happen naturally. So like
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: with a tread, but you can have that clicker. I
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: use a feather to my nose, so I set my
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: fletching up short of my nose so when I start
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: to engage my back, when that feather touches my nose,
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: that's my indicator to let go. So you know, there's
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: words that you can tell yourself, you know, to get
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: through all that process, but you have to be able
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: to do that day like every single time. UM. So
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: it helps with target panic one is the main thing,
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: but it also you know helps when you're in a
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: in a pressured situation rather shooting competitively or when that
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: animals in front of you, A lot of people just
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: black out and they don't remember anything and they don't
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: know why they you know, threw a shot or missed
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: a shot, and it's because they don't have control their
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: entire shot. So yeah, yeah, I finally for myself, I
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: had the exact same same thing I would. I would
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: almost like black out in the moment um and early on,
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: especially when I was trying and just getting into archery,
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: and then when I made the switch trying and target
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: mature bucks, like leading up to the moments, it was
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: like really nerve wracking. You had that serious buck fever.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: And the more experience I got, the more it became
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: a process, and it became a process that was so
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: ingrained in me mentally from doing it so many times.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: I didn't have to think about it, like I knew
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: it was like when I saw a shooter buck, I
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: switched to like I call it like business time, like
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: this business mode, and it's just like okay, this, now, this,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: now this, and I wasn't necessary thinking about it, but
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: I had a process I was going through. Yet I
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: had control over it, and that's been like, that's where
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: I've been continued to fine tune it is is have
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: a flow and you don't want to be overthinking anything,
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: but at the same time, you still want to maintain control,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: and I think the only way you can do that
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: is to establish a process enough shot seek ones like
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: you're talking about, and then practices so many times both
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: just shooting and then also actually executing it in the
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: field on an animal. The more you do those two
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: things with that set process in mind, I think the
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: better you can get at at handling those situations. Absolutely.
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: That's that's what it's all about, is being able to
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: do that, and some guys can't. And that's where you know,
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: the system early really helps. And I wasn't introduced to
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: this system until this past year actually, but I found
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: myself doing a lot of those things. And you know,
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: the biggest thing is is if you you don't have
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: to shoot that aerial just because you drew back that
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean you have to shoot it. Everything
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: has to line up perfectly and you have to hit
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: your your mantra or your sequence and all your things
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: that you tell your stuff. You have to hit those
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: and if you don't, you let down. Uh. So you
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: have to have control of that, and if you can
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: get control, you can save your self a lot. So
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: I I had control, but I didn't I didn't know
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: about the psycho triggers. I didn't realize and it made
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: total sense when he started to explain it to me.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: But when when you have a psycho trigger and you
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: start to use it, it is so hard to say, oh,
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: that looks good and shoot. I mean it's just so
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: hard because you're you're tapping into that conscious or unconscious thoughts.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: So it's pretty cool. Does something that, ever, though, cause
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: you to rush a shot? You know, we're like in
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: your example where you said as soon as that feather
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: touches your nose, you touch off? What if? So yeah,
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: that's where you get the mantra. So you know mine
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: is you know, I I draw back and get there.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: That's my first thing. Drop back and get there, I
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: tell myself. So I get back to my anchor, and
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: then I say watch it, keep it. So when I
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: get the site picture that I want with a trad
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: bill which with a compounded being, you know, putting a
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: pen where you want to look in through the peep
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: site line and to pin up, blinding your rings up
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: with a trap. Ooh, it's the site picture I want.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: And all you have to do is say watch it,
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: keep it, and then I say keep pulling, keep pulling,
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: keep pulling, and when that feather hits my nose, it
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: goes off. You think about you know, and I'm quoting
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: Jewel on a lot of this stuff, but when you
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: think about aiming, if you take your finger and put
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: it on an object, you naturally keep that finger on
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: that object. It'll keep going back to the center. All right.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: So guys over aim they concentrate on aiming so so much.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: When we naturally do it. You think about driving down
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: the road, you don't think about staying between the lines.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: Your brain just naturally stays between the lines. So guys
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: are aiming way too hard. When you're naturally, if you
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: say to yourself, watch it, keep it, and put that
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: pin where you want it, you're and naturally, if you
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: start to veer to left, it's going to naturally get
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: back to where you want it. Uh So it's locking
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: in that bell arm. Watch it to keep it, keep pulling,
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: keep pulling, and letting that shot go off naturally same
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: with a rifle. Bracing for impact. You know you're applying
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: general pressure to that trigger. You just don't punch the trigger,
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: you're just pressure pressure, pressure. It goes off and you
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: don't even realize that went off. And when you get
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: that surprise release a lot of times that that bullets
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: right where you want it. Huh. And it's the same
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: with a bell if you practice it. Yeah, it's like
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: that concept of floating the pin. You don't need it
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: absolutely locked. Like you said, over aimed on one target,
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: keeper one spot, keeping crystal. Still it's picking a spot
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: in your mind's eye looking at that, but you know,
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: allowing it to float naturally, right Because to your point,
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: when you when you over aim and you're you're forcing
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: something that's nearly impossible, you end up probably pulling it
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: or pushing it in some way because doing something that
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: the body just can't do and exactly, and and the
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: big thing is is right when you're setting it up,
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: you have to tell yourself, I don't have to shoot
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: this arrow. So if at any point of that sequence
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: I get unwanted thought in my head that is not
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: get there, watch it, keep it, keep pulling. And as
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: I'm keep pulling. If I think, when's that feather going
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: to touch my nose? I need to let down because
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: it's an unwanted thought. So if if you go through
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: that that sequence like you should and tell yourself those phrases,
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: and everything goes well and the shot goes off great,
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: and you're gonna have a good shot. But if you
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: get those unwanted thoughts and stuff like that, then you
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: need to let down. And and that's where the practice
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: comes in. You really have to. You know, this isn't
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: a fifteen arrow type of thing. You got to shoot
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: thousands of arrows this way to get it ingrained into
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: your system. But once you do, it's so hard to
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: go back to an like an uncontrolled shop process. Yeah,
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: I really like what you said. They're about the fact
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: that you do not need to shoot this arrow, and
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: I think that is lost on a lot of people.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: And it's it's it's I think because so many of us,
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: because we love hunting so much, and we we put
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: so much time and effort and um energy into trying
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: to have that one single moment come together that I
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: think a lot of us feel like as soon as
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: that moments there, you just gotta gotta make it happen.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: You know, you hear some people talk about and it
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: was now or never, so I just a let of
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: a let of rip um. You hear so many times
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: that type of thing happening, where it's not an ideal situation,
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: or you feel like, well, there's only this tiny little
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: place I can slip it through, and I don't know.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: You hear stories like that, and I've been in there too.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: You hear stories like that where it works out and
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: they killed the buck. But I would I would venture
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: to guess that seven out of those ten times, the
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: wrong thing happens, which is you missed the deer or
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: you wound a deer, and you know that's an arrow.
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: You can never take back an arrow when you wound
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: a deer. And I think a lot of us would
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: be would be better served. And I think obviously the
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: hunting as a as a culture in community, I think
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of us would be better served if if
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: we could all be reminded of that a little more often,
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: that you can't take an arrow back. You don't need
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: to touch that trigger, you don't need to release if
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: it's not right, If you can't make that ethical, you know,
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: kill um it's not worth forcing it. Yeah, it's exactly it.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: It all comes down to ethics and and well I've
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: been there, I've I've said the same thing though, this
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: is now or never, let's let's let it go, and
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: most of the time it doesn't work out the way
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: you wanted to. So if you can do this controlled
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: shot process I wanted, it gives you a sense of
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: calmness when that animal comes because you don't know if
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: you're gonna shoot that arrow or not. You're only going
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: to shoot it is if if things go the way
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: that you have planned, so you know, with that thought process,
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: it's just because that deers in front of it doesn't
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: mean like it's right now it's going to happen. You's
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: still got to go through the process. So it's pretty cool.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: But again I'm I'm paraphrasing a lot of jewel stuff.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: So that is Jewel Turner and iron Mind hunting dot
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: com or iron Mind Academy something like that. If you
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: do any type of search for Jewel Turner Hill his
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: stuff will come up very cool, interesting, interesting stuff. And
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's very relevant even for me and Dan
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: because we're just talking about how you know, We're really
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: getting into the heart of our archery practice now with
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: our compounds and all these different things, whether it be
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: dialing in your equipment or improving your shot sequence and
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: how you practice. Um, no matter what kind of bowl
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: you shoot, I think this stuff is is important to
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: be thinking about. So I'm glad that we're able to
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: talk about this with you. Kevin, Yeah, absolutely, And Dan,
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: do you have any final question or thoughts for Kevin
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: vod wrapp things up? If someday I do go from
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: compound to trad, does it make me cooler? Like? Who
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: are who are the cooler guys? Are trad guys cooler
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: or our compound guys cooler? You know? I don't. I
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: don't discriminate, you know, but we always like to say,
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: you guys still have the training wheels on, so so
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: it goes I'm probably sported my training wheels, but hey,
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that. I actually, uh, my good friend
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: Wade James. I went over to his place the other
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: day and Wade's making the switch to trad this year
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: and he had his prime there and it was the
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: first time that I shot a compound in like seven year,
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: six seven years whatever it was, And uh, way. It's like,
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: if I'm gonna shoot all your stick, but you have
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: to shoot my my compound. I was like, no, I
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: am not, and I picked it up and shot it.
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's amazing how far technology has come
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: since I shot compounds six years ago. And I have
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: to admit it, it felt pretty sweet to shoot a bow,
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: shoot a bow that you know it's and you can
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: get traditional bows that are smooth and have no hand
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: shock and everything else, but it doesn't compare to a compound.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: Uh So it's kind of cool to shoot that and
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: not have any you know, recoil or anything like that.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: A matter of fact, I was like, did did I
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: shoot it? You know? It was crazy, But it's fun.
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: You got you gotta love it. Whether you're shooting stick
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: or sticking strings, sticking stringing wheels, it is just fun
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: to be shooting a bowl and out there for the
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: same reason. Yeah, I love it, and I think I think,
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: right as soon as I hit stop on this recording,
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out there and shoot my bow because
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: this has got me excited. So so, Kevin, thank you,
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: thank you for chatting with us about White Tales and
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: what you're doing with with a stick and string. And
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: if people want to hear more of what you've got
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: going on, if they want to chut out the podcast
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: or the website, where can they go. Yeah, track geeks
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: dot com, Track Geeks podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play,
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: all that good stuff, Instagram, trag Geeks, Underscore, Calm, Facebook, Uh,
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: pretty much all the social media outlets we cover. So yeah,
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: that's about it. Mark, awesome, Well, Kevin, we appreciate taking
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: the time to do. This has been a lot of
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: fun and hopefully we'll be hearing about some great stories
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: from you this fall. With a nice p a white
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: tail undernath your bow sounds great. Thanks guys, And there
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: you guys go. Another episode. A hundred and fifty four episodes.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: That's pretty crazy. I gotta I gotta tell you, I'm
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: amazed and very appreciative that so many of you have
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: stuck with us from the very beginning and listen to
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: us for years and years now all the way through. Uh,
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: that is pretty cool, So so thank you for that.
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: A couple of quick plugs before we go. Like I
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: mentioned last week, social media, we're putting a lot more
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: time and energy into what we're doing on the social channels,
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: and we would love to connect with you there and
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: that it was really the best place and the best
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: way to connect with us to to get a question asked,
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: or to give us feedback, or to follow what's happening.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: We are posting a ton there on the Facebook page,
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: new links to new content, videos, etcetera. That's the place
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: to do it. Uh. Instagram is where there's lots of
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: photography and updates from what I'm actually up to up
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: out in the woods. YouTube is where videos are going.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: I'm restarting the video blog trying to do more there,
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: so check those out. And on Twitter, of course, I'm
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: I'm applying to quick questions and things like that. So
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: search why You're to Hunt on any one of those platforms,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: and I would love to connect with you there. Also,
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: be sure to check out that holy Field film I
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: mentioned last week. I think you guys will enjoy it. Finally,
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: I want to give a big thank you to our
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: partners who helped keep this podcast on the air. Big
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: big things to sit a gear YETI Cooler's, Matthew's Archery,
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: Maven Optics, Whitetail, Institute of North America, Trophy Ridge and
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: Hunt Terra Maps and finally, like I mentioned just a
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: few seconds ago, thank you so much for listening. I
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed this one. I hope your summer, dear
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: projects are coming along nicely, and I hope you'll stay
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: wired to hunt