Latest / Yes And Land / WALL-E and Building Safe Communities | Jennica Anusua on Human Connection in the Age of AI

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WALL-E and Building Safe Communities | Jennica Anusua on Human Connection in the Age of AI · Yes And Land

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  To be honest, like, I never wanted anybody to
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  feel alone. My loneliness growing up, being adopted
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  and feeling out of place made me just... Never
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  want someone else to feel isolated. The reason
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  I survived orphanhood, adoption, cancer, like
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  the things I've survived, was literally to build
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  a community, to build a world, an environment
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  that's like, you're welcome to come into this
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  space and it will always be safe. Wally is like
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  a little cute little robot. The story is really
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  just about like human overconsumption. Basically,
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  Earth has become uninhabitable and people live
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  in space, but like they're... literally in these
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  little pods rather than these little pods these
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  little like hover machines and they have a screen
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  in front of them all the time because they're
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  never walking they're never doing anything physical
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  they're not having any real connection yes and
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  then i think the key point about wally is that
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  even though wally is a machine he's built to
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  be a machine he's like embracing the thing that
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  it is to be human and like what we see is like
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  this spark of humanness which is like this desire
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  to connect. Not every room is meant for you at
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  every time but I will say that all the rooms
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  that are meant for you are waiting for you. There
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  are people who are waiting for your most authentic
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  self to be present with you because they want
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  that. We have to start seeing things less as
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  like failures and losses and more about like
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  I'm a human figuring it out and I'm at this place.
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  right now welcome to yes and land where we say
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  yes to the reality of yesterday and today and
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  we say and to the possibility growth and imagination
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  of tomorrow Welcome to Yes and Land. So excited
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  today. We have a good, good friend of mine, Jennica,
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  here on the program today. Jennica and I have
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  had loads of conversations and I always walk
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  away from conversations with you just really
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  feeling like my mind was opened and I thought
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  about things in a new way. And so I'm so excited
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  to share that with everybody else that listens.
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  And so we're really excited about having you
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  on today. Um, uh, Jenica has a really, um, and
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  a really impressive background. I'm being honest.
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  Like it's pretty impressive. Like we're talking
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  about a master's of health science from Johns
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  Hopkins. We're talking about, uh, doing some
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  education, getting a certificate at Harvard.
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  You're at NYU currently, uh, you've worked in
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  the mental health space, done a lot of great
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  things for immigrants. Your experience spans
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  continents and across the country. I mean, just
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  bring a lot to the table, uh, of, of things that
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  you've experienced. And so I'm really excited
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  to see. kind of what we can talk about today
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  to help those who listen. We're talking about,
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  I think, a really timely and an important topic,
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  something I know you're really passionate about,
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  which is building safe communities. Yes. It's,
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  of course, important to build community. I think
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  right now in the age of AI, it's important to
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  have connection, build community, but it's not
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  the same unless it's with safety. That's why
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  I think talking about that today is going to
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  be something that I think a lot of people could
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  really use. And we're going to look at that through
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  a lens of mostly WALL -E today, but we might
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  do a little touch on a little Moana here and
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  there, maybe a little Encanto. We're going to
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  see maybe a little Winnie the Pooh. Who knows?
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  It's kind of a surprise. You'll see. We're just
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  going to see where this goes. That's the secret
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  to the whole thing. It's kind of fun and surprising.
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  That's right. That's right. Who knows? So, Jennica,
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  maybe walk us back a little bit. How did you
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  start into kind of the field of study that you
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  were doing? Why, why did you start studying those
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  things? Where did your initial professional career
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  take you until you're where you are now? which
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  is you're like getting ready to film a movie
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  that you wrote. You wrote, you're going to star
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  in it. You're filming in New York here in three
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  weeks, I think you said. And so, you know, it's
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  such an interesting journey. So take us all the
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  way back and kind of walk us through that. I'll
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  try to keep it relatively brief for all of you.
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  too arduous for us to traverse the pathways.
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  But, you know, I'm adopted. And I think being
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  adopted gives you like a lot of. interesting
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  intersections with relationships. And like, I
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  think I was just talking about this with a friend
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  the other day about the idea of like blood being
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  thicker than water, right? That like your family
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  is like your bond. I have a little tidbit on
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  that. Please. Do you want to hear it? Yes. So
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  that is a very commonly misunderstood saying.
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  Is it? Tell me. It is. So blood is thicker than
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  water. Blood of the covenant is thicker than
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  water of the womb. Interesting. That totally
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  changes it. Which totally changes it to more
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  of what you're saying. Yes. Right? That like
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  when you have that bond that you create with
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  somebody, that can be stronger than a familial
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  relationship. Well, there you go. I know, right?
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  You kind of said the thing I was... Okay, there
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  you go. I love it. I love it. The riff was perfect.
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  Thank you for using your infinite knowledge.
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  That's actually wild. I didn't know that. So
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  yeah, I think like this idea though is like that
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  you are like. inherently bonded to the people
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  you're born to and that like they must be the
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  closest relationship to you and I think being
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  adopted like upends that idea just inherently
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  because you're not biologically related to the
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  person that is your closest familial family members
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  or family member and so I think being adopted
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  made me really interested in like identity and
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  and like where does your identity come from and
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  how and and Thinking through this idea of where
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  you belong. And so that was always, I think,
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  ingrained in me. My mom is very, very, very cool.
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  And everyone who knows my mom knows this. It's
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  true. I'm just throwing it out there. It's definitely
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  true. She has her PhD. Very educated. She was
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  a single mom by choice and adopted my sister
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  and I and another little girl between who passed.
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  But my mom's very cool. And I think she also
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  was very interested in mental health and supporting
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  kids in particular. And so I think that was ingrained
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  in the way we grew up. And then I just to be
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  honest, like I never wanted anybody to feel alone.
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  I think we all do. And in a way now in my adult
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  life, I think there's like a. a healthy quality
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  to understanding what loneliness feels like versus
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  developing solitude versus like being in relationship
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  with yourself and being in relationship with
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  others. So kind of exploring that inter and interpersonal
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  space has been a thing I've just always really
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  cared about. And I think my loneliness growing
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  up, being adopted and feeling out of place made
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  me just never want someone else to feel isolated.
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  And so that kind of led me down this path of,
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  like, how do I connect? And so I'm an artist.
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  I would say I've always been an artist. So I
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  connected through arts all growing up, violin,
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  dance, singing, all of those things I've done,
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  theater, acting. And then I think I also was
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  a writer and was interested in that. And then
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  I started understanding this other side of being
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  a mental health professional. I became a teacher's
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  aide when I was really young for kids with multiple
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  disabilities. That was really powerful. And long
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  story long, I kept going on that pathway. And
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  I think I eventually just knew that there was
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  like a beautiful union of mental health work
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  with art and with creative expression. And I
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  just started seeing these different ways we could
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  build communities. And I think working with refugees
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  overseas in different contexts and then also
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  here in the United States. led me to doing specifically
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  intervention development so I was like creating
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  developing interventions that were running in
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  different countries and here with different populations
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  of people who had often like specific needs around
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  healing or trauma um so how did you how did you
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  get connected with that so what was that path
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  yeah yeah education to going and working in other
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  countries my education i mean i i moved to africa
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  even like when i was young during my undergrad
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  and so and i was working i'd been working with
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  survivors of abuse and assault already um and
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  so i was really passionate about that world And
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  then I was like, OK, I'm going to go to Africa.
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  So I went to Africa. I was like. Was hired to
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  be a Disney princess and then I went to Africa
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  instead. So it's like this. Yeah, I like was
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  Jasmine and then ended up in Africa. So I was
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  in Africa and got to work with kids at the lowest
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  socioeconomic status and like looked really I
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  wasn't started out with me just being like, how
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  do I help kids? How do I help these kids? And
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  I had been working with survivors of abuse who
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  were very young children in particular and seeing
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  like. really meaningful movements forward and
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  their ability to heal from really awful things
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  so I was like this is possible there's a world
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  here but I was like but what is the what's the
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  magic to making that work and I finally got to
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  this place in Africa where I was like it's not
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  just at the kid level it's at the family level
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  and like it's actually at this whole community
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  level because it's not just the family who's
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  taking care of this kid it's actually this entire
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  village it's this entire group of people so I
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  started looking at that as well And I think that
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  started informing the way I thought about healing
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  and safety because, I mean, I think it became
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  very clear to me early on that you can't heal
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  when you're not safe. So it was like, we can't
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  even get to the part that I'm wanting to get
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  to, which is like the breakout moment of like,
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  okay. We're getting somewhere here in the healing
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  trajectory. But you can't get there if the environment
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  isn't safe to begin with. So I started examining,
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  like, where are the gaps in safe environments
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  for kids to even feel safe enough to heal? One
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  thing I would talk about parents with when I
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  was working with survivors of abuse was these
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  are little kids. It's like, well, you know. Once
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  the kid is finally safe, you might see this uptick
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  in their behaviors. You might actually see them
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  act out more. And part of it is like the trauma
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  gets stored in their body. And so then it has
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  to come out somewhere. So like to even get to
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  a place where we're having these breakthrough
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  moments of like, wow, okay, I'm actually able
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  to regulate my emotions. I'm actually able to
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  calm down. We had to get. Into a safe place,
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  let all the trauma kind of show itself and then
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  handle those pieces and then create some healing
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  that like created wholeness. What does it look
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  like to create that safe space? Like what was
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  missing and what needed to be done to create
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  a safe space in which that could then begin to
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  operate? Yeah, that's a great question. I think...
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  truly like for kids it's structure and consistency
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  and um some predictability so that seems so obvious
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  but for kids who have gone through really difficult
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  things like what they can expect what they understand
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  is like how do I create some sort of like okay
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  mom will Mom will say this. Mom will do this.
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  Mom will hug me. She'll come home like those
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  type of things when they don't have that, when
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  everything is different all the time. That lack
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  of stability creates a lot of anxiety and tension
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  and fear. And kids brains literally don't allow
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  them to think like about the larger picture.
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  They're not thinking macro. They're literally
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  thinking about like, is this me? It must be me.
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  Even if they're not actively thinking that it's
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  just that's why, you know, when people talk about.
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  Parents got divorced and kids are like, that
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  was my fault. It's like not because anybody actually
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  said this was your fault. It's because that's
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  the way kids' brains work. They're like, it has
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  to be about me because my life is about me. It's
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  so interesting you say that because there's so
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  many times when I'm dealing with divorce as a
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  divorce attorney and each side will point at
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  the other to say, oh, they blame the divorce
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  on me to my kid. Now my kid has taken it on themselves.
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  That might not actually have happened. The child
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  might have just absorbed that because they just
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  blame themselves because. That's what the development
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  of their brain is. It might not have actually
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  been the other side trying to sabotage. It might
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  have just happened. And like, I think that's
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  the other thing in situations where like there's
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  a fracturing, right? Like we can talk about any
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  trauma as a fracture or like a difficult experience
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  that has the ability to crack something. Like
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  if I'm a whole piece of glass and then something
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  hits me, like I can crack and I can have these
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  cracks that appear in these different ways. And
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  I think for kiddos, especially there's this sense
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  that like, Like you have to adults often think
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  in their adult brain about how kids think. But
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  the reality is that kids think in kid brain.
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  And when I was working overseas and with refugees
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  here, a lot of times I'd remind them like, OK,
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  you've finally gotten out of a war zone. You're
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  literally not in the war zone anymore. So the
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  first thing I'm doing is putting you in a safe
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  physical space. You're safe. But then all these
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  things are the cracks start to show. because
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  we put a thing over the glass or it was obscured
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  by smoke because we're rushing the glass out
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  of the war zone. And now we put it in a clean
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  room where there's no war and now we see the
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  cracks in the glass. And I think that a lot of
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  our families, the parents were still in a survival
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  mode where they were like... I have to just think
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  of my kids as extensions of myself instead of
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  like autonomous, unique individuals that they
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  are. And so that is a thing I would remind parents
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  a lot. It's like your kid just doesn't see it
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  the way you think they do. And you experience
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  the exact same thing, but they're a different
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  brain and a different body. And their brain is
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  at a different level of development than yours.
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  So you see all these factors and all these pieces.
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  They only see it the way they see it. And I think
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  to your point, like that's what we're talking
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  about, right? Like these kids don't have the
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  ability to neurologically. They're just not at
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  the place where they can process it the same
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  way. So we have to like. meet them where they
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  are so I think that was really what led me to
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  like what do I build how do I build safety I'm
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  like well first I need to put people in a safe
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  environment physically then I need to put them
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  in a safe environment emotionally and psychologically
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  to say like you're free to let those cracks show
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  we need to like allow you to be exactly as you
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  are and that really started with kids because
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  kids do it They will just show you exactly what
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  they think and how they are. And they will show
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  you their their behaviors that maybe were adaptive
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  in one context and are now not adaptive, not
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  helpful. And so I think what I realized is I
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  needed to provide. all of that in how I addressed
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  these situations. So we would create psychosocial
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  groups that took place in a community garden.
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  So it's like we're in a physically really beautifully,
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  wonderful, safe place. I've secured that place.
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  I've checked it out. Then we create, we open
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  the conversation for these. families to talk
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  about like what they're thinking and it's sort
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  of free form there's no like rules about how
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  we communicate except for out of respect we're
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  respectful and we're thoughtful and we you know
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  take care of each other and then we like establish
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  what safety feels and looks like by demonstrating
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  it and by embodying it ourselves and then we
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  start doing practices that can build safety in
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  our own personal bodies whether that's mindfulness
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  -based practices whether that's um Breathing
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  exercises, yoga nidra, like thinking about these
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  ways to engage our physical body because when
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  we experience complex and a lot of trauma, we
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  are fractured from ourselves. Like if we think
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  of those cracks happening in ourselves, it's
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  like, oh. I have I cut off this part of my body
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  like the trauma happened. I mean, if we're thinking
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  about it in a very literal way, it's like, oh,
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  the trauma happened to my hand. So I just stopped
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  feeling my hand because I don't want to address
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  that. So I'm just going to pretend like I don't
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  feel it anymore. But that happens in this internal
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  way as well. And you see how different people
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  respond to traumatic experiences. You know, you
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  have one person who's like, I forgot everything.
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  I don't remember a thing. And then you have one
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  person who's like. hear and then hear and then
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  hear and then hear and then hear about how they're
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  talking because it's fractured so i think my
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  um my mom went through a bit of that she had
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  some very traumatic things happen when she was
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  young and she blocked it out for decades decades
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  and only once she was able to do some work with
• 16:54
  therapist and actually some um hypnotist work
• 16:56
  uh that like helped to bring that out could she
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  really address and deal with it and she had suffered
• 17:03
  from depression for a long time but not really
• 17:05
  understanding why because she was fractured and
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  she had she had that was it was too hard for
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  her child brain to handle so that arm was never
• 17:13
  there exactly for a very very long time and the
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  healing only came once she could actually understand
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  that, that, that existed, that that happened
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  and to deal with that fracture. That's exactly
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  it. And when I lived overseas, you know, some
• 17:26
  of the work I mentioned to you before we recorded,
• 17:28
  but I worked with former child soldiers who were
• 17:31
  then adults. Right. And we're like talking about
• 17:33
  the literal reintegration of, of wound into,
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  into community. Like how do we heal and bring
• 17:40
  people back in like this intermeshing, which
• 17:43
  is, I think, um, we. often neglect our bodies
• 17:47
  and I think the world we live in like loves that
• 17:49
  we want to be distracted in every given way but
• 17:53
  the reality is like the embodied self is the
• 17:56
  self that is probably our most centered and healed
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  and stable um But embodiment requires acknowledgement.
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  And that is super scary. And so I often use that
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  way of like almost the visual of how it felt
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  to see these like adults who are child soldiers,
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  like take their wounds and work. And then this
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  community being like, OK, we're bringing you
• 18:19
  back in and we're intermeshing you and you're
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  not part of. what we were because we aren't what
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  we were anymore and you're not who you were but
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  we're like bringing you back into this this healing
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  process and I do think that it's kind of like
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  what you're saying if we cut off our arm and
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  then we're suddenly re -acknowledging its existence
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  it's like we're sewing it back on right We're
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  different. It's different. But we're like reattaching
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  something. And then we have to learn how to love
• 18:44
  it again and we have to nurture it again. And
• 18:46
  so I think all of that is so vital. And in order
• 18:49
  for people to be able to even start that process,
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  we have to create environments that facilitate
• 18:54
  it. And so we have to come from a centered space
• 18:57
  ourselves. But like offering that space. I believe
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  like I kind of just came to this realization
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  even this year it's like it keeps reoccurring
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  to me over like periods of my life but um where
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  I was like oh I think the reason I survived orphanhood
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  adoption cancer like the things I've survived
• 19:15
  was literally uh to be this like to build a community
• 19:20
  to build a world and an environment that's like
• 19:23
  you're welcome to come into this space and it
• 19:25
  will always be safe and then like we will build
• 19:28
  you into the safest version of you with your
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  work and then you will go out and create safe
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  spaces too and then it will continue to like
• 19:36
  expand beyond just me because I don't think it's
• 19:39
  actually about me I think it's about others in
• 19:43
  community for sure you know one of the things
• 19:45
  that struck me too as you were talking is um
• 19:48
  i think your work in in those war zones those
• 19:51
  other countries is so informative for us and
• 19:54
  i think maybe sometimes people miss it because
• 19:57
  If we're just looking at kids, I do some work
• 20:00
  with the Jordan Education Foundation. Yeah, very
• 20:02
  cool. And one of the primary purposes that they
• 20:05
  have is to provide these pantry packs. Because
• 20:08
  in Jordan School District, which if you're listening
• 20:12
  to this and you don't know this area here in
• 20:14
  Utah, it's a fine, it's a well -to -do area.
• 20:17
  It's very middle class, right? And yet there
• 20:19
  are so many students. that don't have food they'll
• 20:28
  go home on a weekend and they don't need to eat
• 20:29
  and they'll have these extended uh you know a
• 20:33
  three -day weekend or a week off from school
• 20:35
  and them not being at school means they don't
• 20:37
  get to eat and how can they live in a safe place
• 20:42
  if if they don't have that kind of safety they
• 20:45
  don't have their physical needs met it's how
• 20:48
  can we possibly think that those kids are going
• 20:50
  to be able to learn and grow when they're worried
• 20:52
  about that all the time And they can't. I mean,
• 20:55
  you can't function if you can't nourish, if you're
• 20:58
  not nourished. And, you know, my mom used to
• 21:00
  work with, maybe run, she would correct me, but
• 21:04
  the Head Start program out in Sandy by Sandy
• 21:07
  Elementary. And I think, again, like, and I think
• 21:12
  back to my experiences overseas, it's like I
• 21:15
  watched people say like, oh, yeah, no doubt about
• 21:18
  it. This is our community. These kids, their
• 21:21
  parents died. They're my kid. And I really think
• 21:25
  that we've gotten away from that, not just in
• 21:28
  the U .S., I think just like a lot of places.
• 21:31
  We've gotten away from this concept of like we
• 21:34
  belong to each other. um like we are each other's
• 21:38
  bond again like back to like the quote that I
• 21:42
  misquoted but you helped me it's like really
• 21:44
  like you you have your chosen family but your
• 21:46
  community the people you invest in not not just
• 21:49
  your time but like you feed them you nurture
• 21:52
  them like we we belong to each other um I always
• 21:57
  think about this like you know we talk about
• 21:59
  images of gardens and plants but I'm like We
• 22:03
  really like have this opportunity to flourish
• 22:06
  in this really beautiful way that spreads us
• 22:09
  further than I think we thought we could go.
• 22:11
  But we have to be like. also the soil for one
• 22:15
  another. We have to be like a foundational earth,
• 22:18
  like that holds gravity where people feel like
• 22:20
  they can land and land safely and softly. Um,
• 22:24
  and I think we all deserve that softness and
• 22:26
  we deserve like a place to also make mistakes
• 22:29
  and experience what life is. Um, and I think
• 22:33
  we've become very afraid of, of, of all of it.
• 22:36
  We're afraid of communicating. We're afraid of
• 22:38
  connecting. We're afraid, but at the end of the
• 22:41
  day, that's what Brene Brown says. We're all
• 22:42
  armored up. We've got to protect ourselves. We
• 22:44
  can't possibly show that vulnerability because
• 22:46
  we don't feel safe. When we don't feel safe,
• 22:48
  we can't show it. And then when we can't show
• 22:50
  it, then we can't grow and we can't have that
• 22:51
  connection. We just lose it. And how do we know
• 22:53
  what safety is if we're not demonstrating it
• 22:55
  and experiencing it? I can't just be like, hey,
• 22:58
  you're safe. Hey, nice to meet you. Wave a magical
• 23:02
  wand and you are safe. Yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't
• 23:05
  work that way. It really has to be like demonstrative
• 23:09
  in the way we live in our own bodies and then
• 23:12
  the way we carry ourselves into spaces. And and
• 23:15
  like I'm thinking about it, you know, because
• 23:17
  I've transitioned from mental health full time
• 23:20
  to filmmaking full time and acting and developing
• 23:24
  that world. But it's literally because I saw
• 23:27
  the stories I was working on or the stories that
• 23:30
  were coming out of these safe spaces with refugees
• 23:32
  where they were like. I didn't know if I was
• 23:35
  ever going to feel home again. And then suddenly
• 23:37
  I'm in this community with other people and now
• 23:39
  I want to talk and I want to dance and I want
• 23:41
  to like have joy again. And, and I never thought
• 23:45
  I'd have home and I never had it before. And,
• 23:48
  you know, these Rohingya women saying like, I
• 23:50
  lost everyone in my family, but now I have family.
• 23:53
  Like those things changed my life. Like. it so
• 23:57
  much have changed my these people that I've worked
• 24:00
  with have changed my life and so I was like what
• 24:02
  how do I take what's right here and like give
• 24:06
  it a more space and help people who are totally
• 24:09
  external to this community understand this community
• 24:11
  better because I felt like there was a big gap
• 24:14
  between where I was working and the beauty I
• 24:16
  was experiencing here and what I was doing when
• 24:19
  I was interfacing with the external world of
• 24:21
  people people just didn't understand refugees
• 24:23
  so that was a big part of it but then I think
• 24:26
  it was also like how do I take what's being curated
• 24:28
  here and extend it so that we can keep humanizing
• 24:32
  each other and I kind of came to this ethos around
• 24:36
  humanization which was like my job as a filmmaker
• 24:40
  is to like humanize and re -humanize each other
• 24:43
  to to each other until there's no distinction
• 24:46
  in our humanness yeah and we see the distinctions
• 24:49
  in our beings and our experiences but there's
• 24:51
  no distinction in what what we understand about
• 24:53
  one another which is we are human and there's
• 24:55
  value there sure and so like if we are all on
• 24:58
  that same level that's safety Like that's a safe
• 25:01
  community to start with. So I just think in every
• 25:04
  industry, any industry, any job you do, like
• 25:08
  you have the opportunity to like explore yourself,
• 25:11
  your own being and like find safety within you.
• 25:14
  And like that's hard, but it's powerful. And
• 25:16
  then you have the opportunity to go into every
• 25:18
  space you're in, every room you're in, every
• 25:20
  meeting you go into and say like, I'm going to
• 25:22
  be a center of safe experience and safety for
• 25:26
  the people here. And I'm going to like. Encourage
• 25:29
  it like, hey, let's have a meeting. Let's have
• 25:31
  a check in. How's everybody doing? Should we
• 25:32
  do a little exercise? Like there's so many ways
• 25:35
  to encourage what I think is safe, safe community
• 25:38
  building. When we look at, so we kind of talked
• 25:41
  about a little bit with the lack of that first
• 25:43
  step of safety, right? We talked about kind of
• 25:46
  the refugees, also the children in the other
• 25:48
  countries. We talked a little bit, obviously,
• 25:50
  about kids here and need to have their core needs
• 25:53
  met. What do you see, like, in our community
• 25:56
  with some of the lack of safety, that first step
• 25:59
  of safety for adults? Yeah. What have you seen?
• 26:01
  Great question. So we're going to know where
• 26:03
  to start from, right? If we understand like,
• 26:04
  okay, here's the safety gap we have in that very
• 26:06
  first step of like actual physical, they've got
• 26:10
  to be safe before we can even get to this other
• 26:12
  one. Yeah, for adults, I think there's a self
• 26:17
  -acknowledgement piece that comes along with
• 26:20
  like recognizing where you're coming from, what
• 26:24
  you're doing. I think there's even like this
• 26:26
  embodiment piece that we talked about kind of
• 26:28
  with your mom where it's like, adults I heard
• 26:32
  a quote once that was like adult we're all just
• 26:35
  like our child selves now in adult bodies trying
• 26:38
  to like grapple with our trauma or whatever right
• 26:41
  like we're just like kind of our our child selves
• 26:44
  still in our adult bodies and I think um it's
• 26:49
  really about like how do you how do you live
• 26:52
  your life like I think there's a lot of like
• 26:55
  are you willing to sit down and unpack like Do
• 26:57
  I spend X number of hours on my phone or on the
• 27:01
  TV or whatever? Because the world around us is
• 27:04
  really designed to get us to consume, to buy
• 27:07
  things, and to, like, really distract us from
• 27:11
  time with ourselves in our own beings, in our
• 27:15
  bodies. And I think a lot of people, this is
• 27:17
  why a lot of people, like, get out into nature,
• 27:18
  do these things, because it's really just this
• 27:21
  way of existing in a mindful practice, in a centered
• 27:24
  way. I think what happens for adults is we get
• 27:29
  really wrapped up in the things we think matter
• 27:33
  around resources, money, time, you know, like
• 27:38
  all the resources we have. And to me, time is
• 27:41
  quite literally like our most valuable resource.
• 27:43
  It's the only one you actually really truly can't
• 27:46
  get back or you lose. And so I'm like time is
• 27:49
  so, so valuable. And if you really sat down and
• 27:53
  thought like, what am I doing with my time? It's
• 27:55
  not just like. what am I working on it's like
• 27:58
  what am I actually doing with my body and my
• 28:00
  brain and my being in this time like am I present
• 28:04
  like even in my work am I present in my work
• 28:08
  right now am I like distracted thinking about
• 28:11
  other things am I like ready to get back on my
• 28:13
  Instagram or am I like present you know and I
• 28:15
  I think that's actually where I think the arts
• 28:18
  have such a powerful impact on people because
• 28:20
  I think acting the arts music i grew up as a
• 28:25
  musician i'm semi -professional violinist and
• 28:27
  music and then i also have done acting and dance
• 28:31
  all of those things force you a to be inside
• 28:34
  your body and and feel what's happening with
• 28:36
  it and like notice stuff and b they force you
• 28:40
  to be right here right now like you don't really
• 28:42
  have an option because if you're not present
• 28:45
  in any of those things nothing connects yeah
• 28:47
  it doesn't work It's like a broken chain link
• 28:50
  on the chain link fence. You're like there, but
• 28:54
  like the link is not connected. You're not doing
• 28:56
  it. And so I think I found that too because we
• 29:00
  did music therapy with kids overseas. And I write
• 29:05
  poetry like I think anything that allows you
• 29:07
  to observe the world around you and and within
• 29:10
  you, both worlds is like really beneficial, especially
• 29:13
  for adults who I think have gotten away from
• 29:16
  that so far and really get lost in in the in
• 29:19
  the rat race of of whatever capitalist stuff
• 29:23
  we're worried about, to be honest, you know,
• 29:24
  and I'm not saying that those things aren't real.
• 29:26
  They are real, but like they also aren't the
• 29:29
  central thing about you. Right. Right. Yeah,
• 29:33
  totally. And I think this is actually really,
• 29:35
  it's a really natural lead into to Wally, right?
• 29:39
  Because, you know, I think as we talked about
• 29:41
  before we started is this is a cautionary tale.
• 29:44
  Yes. Right. Wally is. Eva, Wally. So for anybody
• 29:48
  hasn't seen Wally, if you wouldn't mind just
• 29:52
  kind of giving a 30 ,000 foot overview of what
• 29:54
  the story is. And then we can kind of dive into
• 29:57
  why this is a cautionary tale for exactly what
• 29:59
  we're talking about. Yeah, I think. Well, WALL
• 30:02
  -E is so cute. I've always really liked WALL
• 30:05
  -E, but I feel like not a lot of people like
• 30:07
  it. But if you do, if you're a fan, you're a
• 30:09
  fan. You get what I'm saying? So all you WALL
• 30:11
  -E fans out there, I see you. WALL -E is like
• 30:15
  a little cute little robot. And the story is
• 30:18
  really just about like human overconsumption,
• 30:21
  greed. I think like addiction to capital, to
• 30:27
  capitalism, to like things. And the byproduct
• 30:31
  of things instead of community. It's like breaking
• 30:34
  little community to the point where. Basically,
• 30:38
  Earth has become uninhabitable and people live
• 30:40
  in space, but they're literally in these little
• 30:43
  pods. Right, they're in these little pods, these
• 30:45
  little hover machines, and they have a screen
• 30:48
  in front of them all the time. And they're not
• 30:49
  even looking at each other. They're not even
• 30:52
  interacting with each other. All their interaction
• 30:54
  is happening with this screen. So they've just
• 30:56
  become just super overweight, right? Because
• 30:59
  they're never walking, they're never doing anything
• 31:01
  physical, and they're not having any real connection.
• 31:03
  Yes, and then I think the key point about Wall
• 31:05
  -E is... that even though Wally is a machine,
• 31:09
  he's built to be a machine. He's like embracing
• 31:12
  the thing that it is to be human. And like what
• 31:14
  we see is like the spark of humanness, which
• 31:17
  is like this desire to connect. And he wants
• 31:21
  to connect. And so he finds another sweet little
• 31:23
  robot and they have a very cute connection. But
• 31:26
  I think like what I've always liked about that
• 31:29
  movie in the character of Wally is like, I think
• 31:32
  it also changes our idea. It makes us think about
• 31:34
  like. What is it that makes us human? And I think
• 31:38
  that is the conversation of right this minute,
• 31:41
  which is like, what makes us human and what do
• 31:45
  we want to preserve? A few years ago, one of
• 31:48
  my best friends was chatting with me about GPT
• 31:51
  in its earliest. I think it was GPT -2. And she
• 31:54
  was like, look, this is years ago. She was like,
• 31:57
  it's going to change the landscape of how we
• 32:01
  function. And I was like, I agree, but like,
• 32:04
  what do we do? And we had this conversation on
• 32:07
  the phone with each other where we were like,
• 32:08
  what is it that we want to preserve about what
• 32:13
  is human? And, you know, a lot of people are
• 32:14
  now in this space saying like, well, look, AI
• 32:18
  will never take away what it is that makes us
• 32:22
  human and like these special things about what
• 32:24
  makes us human. I'm like, but what is that to
• 32:26
  you? What do you think that is? What is that?
• 32:30
  And what is that for you? Yeah, for me, it's
• 32:33
  like, I think it's the soul. I think it's the
• 32:37
  spark of what is our soul. And then I think it
• 32:40
  is our ability to like organically touch the
• 32:44
  hum of that which is living, not just human,
• 32:47
  all living life and create something beautiful
• 32:52
  from it, like community. And I think it's interesting
• 32:55
  because... I just think that when we get into
• 33:00
  this space, which is like Wally is the cautionary
• 33:02
  tale of, right? Like when we get so lost far
• 33:06
  into the things that are built to distract us
• 33:09
  and built to take our attention and our money
• 33:11
  and our time, our resources, we literally don't
• 33:15
  have the time and resources and energy to pour
• 33:17
  back into the thing that is just like. us this
• 33:21
  right here and then this right here this communication
• 33:24
  and i think um what's so cute about wally as
• 33:29
  a little guy is that he's also like he has like
• 33:34
  human curiosity and yearning and like that is
• 33:39
  why i think people love wally as a character
• 33:41
  because we're like oh that's so true to us and
• 33:45
  i think the film is asking us like what is human
• 33:49
  What is human? What's uniquely human? What's
• 33:51
  not? And like, what do we want to keep in a world
• 33:54
  that's rapidly pushing us toward like what we
• 33:57
  don't like to a thing we don't know? I think
• 34:00
  it's wild to consider the fact that we get online
• 34:02
  and you literally don't know if it's AI or not.
• 34:04
  You're like, is that real? Yeah. Is it? I don't
• 34:07
  know. And my mom's generation, you know, they're
• 34:09
  like, they don't even know to know it's not real.
• 34:11
  They're like, oh, I saw this video of this like
• 34:14
  bunny jumping on a trampoline. And you're like,
• 34:16
  that's AI, mom. And she's like, what? What are
• 34:19
  you talking about? And I think like that's important.
• 34:22
  But what I love is I keep seeing people in our
• 34:25
  generation and younger, especially saying like,
• 34:27
  we don't want that. We actually don't want that.
• 34:31
  Yeah, we like funny videos. But at the end of
• 34:33
  the day, we actually do not want to be disconnected
• 34:36
  from each other anymore. And, you know, I love
• 34:39
  that the Surgeon General came out with a warning
• 34:41
  about social media for teens. I think that finally
• 34:45
  Facebook is under that or Meta is under that
• 34:47
  lawsuit where they're talking about like in California
• 34:49
  about like, is this harming kids? Like, are we
• 34:52
  harming kids? And I think that's the conversation
• 34:54
  in my mental health world. I'm working and working
• 34:58
  with teens because that was a big part of my
• 35:00
  career as well in neuropsychiatric research and
• 35:04
  stuff like that is looking at like. What are
• 35:06
  teens being impacted by? How are their brains
• 35:08
  getting changed? And the reality is that social
• 35:13
  media just alone made kids feel more isolated
• 35:17
  and alone. For sure. And what is really helpful
• 35:21
  for kids is old school texting and phone calls.
• 35:25
  Like they talk about, you know, researchers and
• 35:28
  experts will talk about like. The best thing
• 35:30
  you can do is like, yeah, let your kid have a
• 35:32
  phone, but let it only text because text is real
• 35:35
  communication. It's like actually having to practice
• 35:38
  talking to one another. But social media is not.
• 35:42
  And then we create these parasocial relationships.
• 35:44
  And so I think. when we talk about building safe
• 35:49
  community, not only do we have to key into like,
• 35:52
  who am I? What am I going through? What am I
• 35:53
  doing? Have I like, am I embodied? And am I living
• 35:57
  in my body and knowing it? And like, what's going
• 35:59
  on for me? And then do I feel brave enough to
• 36:03
  go into a space with someone else and be honest
• 36:05
  about that? And like, is there a space where
• 36:08
  that exists? I really like the idea of third
• 36:10
  spaces, right? Like the third space is the space
• 36:14
  outside of your home or whatever where you like
• 36:16
  can go when it's safe and I'm like yeah let's
• 36:19
  build more third spaces let's build let's go
• 36:21
  to more gardens let's go on more like let's be
• 36:24
  out in the world and then I think it's like once
• 36:27
  you've finally gotten that once you've disconnected
• 36:30
  from tech and like a world that like puts you
• 36:34
  behind a screen so you're not face to face and
• 36:36
  you're not like with other people um but once
• 36:39
  you start getting into the world where you're
• 36:40
  with other people then you can be like how do
• 36:43
  I keep doing this and how do i preserve this
• 36:46
  and still engage with tech or not and i think
• 36:49
  um i'm grateful because i think a lot of people
• 36:52
  are asking that question i think like there's
• 36:55
  been a big call for people to be like i just
• 36:57
  want to be in nature again i just want to be
• 36:59
  with people again for sure so um let me i'm gonna
• 37:03
  read a couple quotes i'm gonna get to your take
• 37:04
  on them yeah okay Um, so there's one here and
• 37:07
  I want to start with this one because I think
• 37:08
  it goes back to this idea of kind of starting
• 37:10
  with ourselves. Right. Um, and, and then put
• 37:13
  it in context of, uh, this is by Jay Shetty and
• 37:15
  he's talking about, um, loving others. Right.
• 37:18
  Um, and he says, and we prepare for love by learning
• 37:21
  how to love ourselves in solitude. And so give
• 37:24
  me your take on that in the context of building
• 37:26
  a safe place for ourselves first. Yeah. I think,
• 37:29
  um, it's so funny we talked about solitude earlier
• 37:32
  a lot of people i think mistake uh mistake being
• 37:39
  alone is just lonely um and i think learning
• 37:42
  how to be with yourself and curating rainier
• 37:45
  maria wrote talks about this too right like what
• 37:47
  solitude is and i think a lot of our great writers
• 37:50
  in the world have done this where they're like
• 37:52
  very alone but then they're like oh There's a
• 37:56
  time where I finally built a relationship with
• 37:59
  myself where being alone wasn't scary and sad.
• 38:03
  It was actually beautiful and wonderful and something
• 38:07
  that I needed. Even if you're an extrovert, you
• 38:10
  know, you need solitude. You were talking to
• 38:13
  me on that, right? Just now, literally just now,
• 38:15
  because that is totally me. Like I'm an extrovert
• 38:17
  through and through. And so many times I fail
• 38:20
  to take those opportunities for solitude because
• 38:23
  I like being around people so much. Yes, I'm
• 38:26
  the same way. But I, especially in the last couple
• 38:30
  of years. There's like the moments when I'm just
• 38:32
  sitting, it's just quiet, and I can like kind
• 38:36
  of do whatever I want, whether that's like journal
• 38:37
  or just sit there or I do a little like yoga
• 38:40
  with Adrian, you know, whatever that is. Like
• 38:43
  that is really important time. It's like this
• 38:46
  nourishment of self, giving back to self. And
• 38:49
  like how do you really know what you're like
• 38:51
  in relationship to other people if you've never
• 38:53
  understood your relationship with you through
• 38:56
  this solitude experience? You really have to
• 39:00
  do the hard work there. I actually think the
• 39:03
  work with self is often the hardest work. Genuinely.
• 39:06
  And I think that's why it does start there. But
• 39:09
  I think once you start developing the tools,
• 39:11
  it becomes the most rewarding work. And it becomes
• 39:17
  the foundational work for what happens next.
• 39:19
  Yeah. Okay, so then to build on that, here's
• 39:21
  another one. And this one we might have to talk
• 39:23
  about a little bit. Because when I first read
• 39:25
  it, I was kind of like... So I'm really interested
• 39:29
  to get your kind of expert take on this. This
• 39:31
  is what Brene Brown said. We love her. We love
• 39:33
  Brene. Yeah, right? If you trade your authenticity
• 39:36
  for safety, you may experience the following.
• 39:39
  Anxiety, depression, eating disorders, addiction,
• 39:42
  rage, blame, resentment, and inexplicable grief.
• 39:45
  So if you trade authenticity for safety, in other
• 39:47
  words, a trade -off, like not both. Someone get
• 39:50
  your take on that. Okay, so I think this also
• 39:54
  gets into the definition of what safety is, right?
• 39:57
  Yes, which is where I was hoping you would go.
• 39:59
  So I think what she's also saying is group safety
• 40:05
  or perceived safety within a community. So my
• 40:08
  thought about this is like safety as in like
• 40:13
  not experiencing conflict or like not experiencing,
• 40:18
  you know, so I'm like, okay. uh safety takes
• 40:23
  on a different term here it's a different version
• 40:25
  of what we're talking because we're not talking
• 40:26
  about like actual deep level holistic internal
• 40:29
  communal safety we're talking about um absence
• 40:34
  of reprisal we're talking about like the absence
• 40:37
  of conflict and the reality is that safe communities
• 40:40
  and safe relationships do bring conflict safe
• 40:45
  communities and relationships bring you into
• 40:47
  places where you have to be challenged and you
• 40:50
  have to be like do i like that it does that feel
• 40:53
  right to me and your authenticity is the only
• 40:56
  way you can hang on to yourself and actually
• 41:01
  be in a safe space i mean if we're sitting here
• 41:04
  you and me and we agree about absolutely everything
• 41:06
  like what have we really achieved we haven't
• 41:09
  built community per se we've we've built like
• 41:13
  camaraderie we're hanging out together but like
• 41:15
  you don't want to be in a community of people
• 41:17
  who think everything you think all the time and
• 41:20
  always agree with you you don't want an echo
• 41:22
  chamber at least you shouldn't you shouldn't
• 41:24
  because how do you grow right like and how do
• 41:28
  you even if we're talking about like relationship
• 41:29
  to self and like We want our most authentic selves
• 41:33
  to show up. That means like you're going to get
• 41:35
  in the space. You might just disagree. You might
• 41:36
  be like, oh, I don't see it that way. How incredible
• 41:39
  is that? So in this situation, I think she's
• 41:42
  very much talking about like safety as perceived
• 41:45
  safety, which is like no one's going to criticize
• 41:48
  me. No one's going to make me feel bad. No one's
• 41:49
  going to think I'm weird. No one's going to say
• 41:51
  I'm dumb. I don't want to. But the reality is
• 41:54
  like you need to face those feelings when you
• 41:57
  stand up fully as yourself because you're going
• 41:59
  to find your right people. that way not every
• 42:02
  room is meant for you at every time but I will
• 42:04
  say that all the rooms that are meant for you
• 42:06
  are waiting for you there are people who are
• 42:09
  waiting for your most authentic self to be present
• 42:11
  with you because they want that and I want that
• 42:14
  like when I'm in these communities whatever it
• 42:17
  is whether it's my filmmaking communities whether
• 42:18
  it's writers whether it's other mental professionals
• 42:21
  whatever it is you know I want people to come
• 42:24
  into the room with their thoughts and ideas and
• 42:26
  maybe disagree with me or maybe push back like
• 42:28
  oh I love that That makes me not only feel closer
• 42:32
  to them, it makes me feel closer to myself. And
• 42:35
  it's the practice of standing up in authenticity
• 42:38
  that makes me like myself even more. It's actually
• 42:41
  building self -esteem. Can I challenge the, not
• 42:45
  necessarily challenge, but let me dig a little
• 42:47
  deeper on the idea of authenticity. Because this
• 42:49
  is one thing that I think there's potentially
• 42:51
  a lot of misunderstanding about what that means.
• 42:54
  Because when I think about, okay, who's authentic
• 42:58
  Ryan? Who am I, you know, what is my real reaction?
• 43:04
  What is my, who am I at my core? Like, I think
• 43:07
  it's a lot of things. You know, I think like
• 43:09
  duality of man, right? Like, you know, sometimes
• 43:13
  like I... My self is to act irrationally sometimes,
• 43:18
  unfortunately. And sometimes my self is to overreact.
• 43:21
  Like, you know, if my kids do something wrong
• 43:23
  and I'm just like not feeling great that day,
• 43:25
  I might yell and I wish that I wouldn't, right?
• 43:28
  So what is this authentic self we're talking
• 43:31
  about? Because for me, when I think about it,
• 43:33
  the way that I like to think about it just personally
• 43:37
  that helps me is like the best version of my
• 43:40
  authentic self. So it's still me, but it's like...
• 43:43
  It's the best version of me, me acting as the
• 43:46
  best authentic Ryan as opposed to like, well,
• 43:49
  maybe authentic Ryan would be a little bit jealous
• 43:51
  or would be a little bit crusty or would be a
• 43:53
  little bit selfish. Interesting. But that's not
• 43:55
  the version that I want to have come out. Yeah,
• 43:57
  that's so interesting because I was going to
• 44:00
  say to your comment, I think best in my mind
• 44:07
  is actually honest. Okay. Honest with the caveat
• 44:11
  of. keeping yourself in balance in terms of your
• 44:14
  behaviors that might be harmful like if we're
• 44:17
  not harming other people if we're like because
• 44:19
  i also want to talk about like safe spaces don't
• 44:21
  just mean not harmful yeah safe space doesn't
• 44:26
  mean oh there's no active harm happening like
• 44:29
  we're not hurting people no safe is not just
• 44:32
  we're not harming people it's we're actively
• 44:34
  keeping people safe like there's a difference
• 44:36
  between that i would say so that's like a kind
• 44:40
  of side tangent but to your point about authenticity
• 44:42
  I think it is okay to show up in a space that's
• 44:46
  actually safe as yourself as long as you're not
• 44:48
  harming people meaning so sometimes you are you're
• 44:51
  not perfect nobody's perfect and like actually
• 44:54
  kids learn the best when parents for example
• 44:56
  come in the space that they're sharing and maybe
• 44:59
  they do fly off the handle and then they what
• 45:01
  what we talk about a lot is like it's not what
• 45:03
  you did per se It's what you did to repair. The
• 45:07
  reparation is the most important part of the
• 45:09
  step. Kids often remember what happened, but
• 45:13
  they really remember what you did after. They
• 45:15
  really remember how you took accountability for
• 45:17
  it or how you said, I'm sorry. You know what?
• 45:19
  I did yell there, and I didn't like that I yelled.
• 45:22
  And I think I got pretty upset, and my body was
• 45:26
  feeling really overwhelmed, and then I let that
• 45:28
  come out. I wish I hadn't done that. I'm sorry
• 45:31
  I did. That's what. people remember very often
• 45:34
  and then the active effort to not do it again
• 45:38
  that's what people that's what means something
• 45:41
  to people i don't think people are unwilling
• 45:43
  to forgive a transgression i think it's the like
• 45:47
  lack of accountability acknowledgement and then
• 45:49
  repair that that hurt people in the long term
• 45:53
  yeah It's not just apology. It's also repair.
• 45:57
  You can't have just apology. No, the repair is
• 46:00
  everything. If I just say I'm sorry, then it's
• 46:02
  fine. Sorries are kind of meaningless if they're
• 46:04
  not followed with action, in my opinion. It's
• 46:06
  funny. It actually made me think about one of
• 46:09
  my, honestly, favorite people growing up. He
• 46:14
  was a teacher with my dad and being a principal,
• 46:17
  and he worked for Grant School District. He was
• 46:20
  a major administrator there. But I knew him because
• 46:22
  he was in my neighborhood. His daughter was the
• 46:25
  same age that I was. And he, at the time, when
• 46:30
  I was a teenager, was teaching a Sunday school
• 46:33
  class at our church. He was a teacher. And one
• 46:35
  of the kids in the class, she was always interrupting
• 46:38
  and talking, like always. And then she would
• 46:40
  say, I'm sorry. And I can remember him being
• 46:41
  like, hey, look. it's great that you're saying
• 46:44
  you're sorry but like you need to actually stop
• 46:46
  doing it and that stuck with me and they stuck
• 46:49
  with me for 30 years that it was like in that
• 46:52
  moment, like one of the kindest people I know,
• 46:54
  one of the most influential people I know, like
• 46:56
  just spewing wisdom. I was like, that was the
• 46:59
  most valuable thing I learned in class. And like,
• 47:00
  it's not enough. Yes. Like, it's great that you're
• 47:03
  sorry, but that's just not enough. The other
• 47:05
  comment I was going to kind of make about your
• 47:07
  thing about authenticity is I think we've like
• 47:09
  a little bit, like we veered off course with
• 47:11
  like kind of toxic wellness culture, which is
• 47:15
  like, there are a few things that pop up in toxic
• 47:17
  wellness culture. One is like, if I don't like
• 47:19
  the thing you say, boundary. That's my choice,
• 47:22
  and you've got to respect it. That's my boundary.
• 47:25
  So I'm taking care of myself. But actually, what's
• 47:30
  healthy is you did or said this thing I didn't
• 47:33
  love. Can we talk about it? Because I love you.
• 47:35
  Like there's a relationship here, and I'm willing
• 47:38
  to work on it. Boundaries are important. I will
• 47:40
  never dismiss that boundaries are important,
• 47:42
  but boundaries are for the person setting them.
• 47:45
  That's the key. And they're not for the other
• 47:47
  person. That's right. It's okay. What the boundaries
• 47:48
  of what my behavior is and where am I going to
• 47:51
  set what I'm willing to tolerate? Not, not I'm
• 47:53
  going to dictate what you have. Yes. And I'm
• 47:54
  going to like step away if I need to. That's
• 47:56
  the boundary. Like, or this is how far I'm willing
• 47:59
  to go at this moment. But when you're trying
• 48:01
  to build healthy, safe communities and relationships,
• 48:04
  you need to be willing to go up against what's
• 48:06
  hard. Go up against the thing. So that's important.
• 48:09
  I think the other thing that comes out of it
• 48:11
  is like, I'm my best self. I'm my authentic self.
• 48:14
  And I get to be whoever I want. It's like, well.
• 48:17
  you do in your spaces maybe in your solitude
• 48:20
  do whatever you want scream whatever but like
• 48:22
  think about how your actions actually do influence
• 48:24
  other people and consider that that matters and
• 48:27
  that other people aren't you and they aren't
• 48:29
  coming from your same like I think this lack
• 48:31
  of thoughtfulness of other people has like started
• 48:33
  to pervade this idea of like boss women it's
• 48:36
  me it's not all about women but you know it's
• 48:38
  like me only me top me first and I'm like I do
• 48:42
  think the idea of like take care of yourself
• 48:44
  first has gotten like a little bit twisted because
• 48:46
  again when I think about authenticity I'm like
• 48:49
  actually I think you need to be willing to say
• 48:51
  I do have these other parts I remember when I
• 48:53
  went to therapy you know in my therapeutic journey
• 48:56
  one of my one of the things my therapist said
• 48:58
  was like hey uh like have you considered that
• 49:02
  you're kind of like everybody else like that
• 49:04
  you also make mistakes and that sometimes people
• 49:08
  don't like you and they're going to not like
• 49:10
  you and that that's normal. And I was like, well,
• 49:13
  I can't survive if I make mistakes. Like, I can't
• 49:16
  make mistakes. I have to be right. And I had
• 49:19
  to realize, like, oh, my God, making mistakes
• 49:20
  is actually, like, a really normal. thing being
• 49:24
  not perfect is really normal and i think we need
• 49:27
  to keep showing that to each other and to the
• 49:29
  kids in our lives to be like you're not going
• 49:31
  to be perfect but you can still be good you can
• 49:35
  do good you can engage in good you can let the
• 49:37
  good that's in you feed other people's good and
• 49:40
  it can create this like karmic cyclical thing
• 49:43
  but i think authenticity requires you to do both
• 49:46
  to be all of it so i would say that it's an honest
• 49:49
  representation of yourself yeah I really like
• 49:52
  that. I really like that. Yeah, I think to your
• 49:54
  point of what sometimes happens when people weaponize
• 49:57
  it is people will use authenticity just to excuse
• 50:00
  really bad behavior, rude behavior, cruel behavior,
• 50:03
  and they just use it to excuse it. Like, I'm
• 50:04
  myself. I'm myself. And that's not what it's
• 50:07
  intended for. And I'm like, but are you? Is this
• 50:10
  who you want to be? Like, I think that's the
• 50:12
  other question is like, yeah, I think you're
• 50:15
  right. Unfortunately, there's a shortcutting
• 50:17
  that happens sometimes when we use language.
• 50:20
  And I think... It really is like you need to
• 50:24
  be thinking about what's good for you while also
• 50:26
  holding the reality of where you're in, of the
• 50:28
  space you're in. And other people, like other
• 50:31
  people do exist. And they do matter. Like whether
• 50:34
  they're your top priority or not doesn't actually
• 50:37
  matter. They matter too. So it's like you've
• 50:39
  got to navigate the world that way. And I think
• 50:42
  a lot of us, especially with like online culture,
• 50:45
  like we've gotten away from that. We forget,
• 50:47
  like, there are people on the other side of these
• 50:49
  screens. These are people. And so I think that's
• 50:52
  really an important part of that. For sure. Okay,
• 50:54
  here's the next quote I wanted to get your take
• 50:55
  on. Quote. Hit me. This is from Simon Sinek.
• 50:58
  Okay. Who's one of my favorites. Yes. Do you
• 51:00
  know who Simon Sinek is? I do. Okay, so he's
• 51:02
  so great. A team is not a group of people that
• 51:04
  work together. A team is a group of people that
• 51:07
  trust each other. Yes, okay. So this reminds
• 51:11
  me of when I worked more in the corporate world,
• 51:13
  and I was always like, your manager is supposed
• 51:16
  to be, like when I led a program, I was like,
• 51:18
  your manager is supposed to be behind you, not
• 51:19
  in front. Or they're supposed to be in front
• 51:21
  of you, either taking what comes, or they're
• 51:25
  behind you in the background, meaning they're
• 51:28
  letting you do the thing so you can succeed.
• 51:30
  And I think teams that function well... function
• 51:37
  because of the relationships and the trust they
• 51:40
  don't function well because everyone's like good
• 51:42
  at their job like being good at your job is a
• 51:44
  is a side component absolutely like and the thing
• 51:49
  is even people who are phenomenal at their jobs
• 51:51
  often don't get the opportunity to flourish unless
• 51:55
  they're in the right team where they trust each
• 51:58
  other and care for each other it's interesting
• 52:00
  um I think it was Tron one of the films that
• 52:04
  was made it was like I think it was Tron but
• 52:07
  when it was first made like the team there was
• 52:10
  like some misalignment if I'm and anybody in
• 52:15
  this space that seeing this could correct me
• 52:16
  on this so I will not be offended because I'm
• 52:19
  probably misremembering but it was like there
• 52:21
  was some misalignment with team or something
• 52:23
  and like the product didn't turn out great but
• 52:25
  then they went to redo either the second one
• 52:27
  or another film together that was not drawn and
• 52:30
  the director like re put everybody in different
• 52:33
  positions where they thought they would shine
• 52:34
  and then that film was really successful and
• 52:37
  it worked really well and even in the film I'm
• 52:40
  making now and films I make in general it's like
• 52:42
  You have to be aligned. There has to be alignment.
• 52:45
  And the alignment comes from trust and care for
• 52:48
  each other. It's safety, actually, at the base
• 52:51
  of it. And it really is true that, like, people
• 52:56
  shine. in what they're good at and in their skill
• 52:59
  sets, like if we're talking about teams, like
• 53:01
  people do their job better when they trust you
• 53:04
  and when they're safe. And so if you can create
• 53:07
  an environment where people feel like seen, understood,
• 53:11
  valued, and then you like acknowledge their skills
• 53:14
  as well, then they're like, sweet, this person
• 53:17
  thinks I'm good and they kind of like me. And
• 53:19
  I trust that this person that's talking to me,
• 53:21
  A, is telling the truth, and B, is invested in
• 53:24
  me just as much as the outcome. And I think that's
• 53:28
  really important. And I think you kind of answered
• 53:31
  what I wanted to ask, but maybe let's just dig
• 53:33
  into it a little bit more, which is after we've
• 53:37
  done the work for ourselves, right, how do we
• 53:40
  then help to build that safety in whatever group
• 53:44
  it is that we're participating in? And that might
• 53:46
  be a group in our community. It might be in our
• 53:49
  neighborhood. It might be at work. It might be
• 53:52
  on set, right? How do we... do that? How do we
• 53:57
  actually create that safe space? Yes. Yeah. It's
• 54:02
  such a great question. I think first it is acknowledgement
• 54:05
  of self. So like I'm having a bad day. I'm coming
• 54:09
  into my neighborhood PTA meeting or whatever.
• 54:11
  I'm coming into whatever group I'm coming into.
• 54:13
  And like, I know where I'm coming from. I think
• 54:15
  that needs to be our top. Like I know where I'm
• 54:17
  coming from. I'm aware. Then I'm like aware of
• 54:20
  who else is in the room. I'm paying attention.
• 54:23
  And then I think it's like active engagement.
• 54:27
  being present like i think that um like on set
• 54:33
  what there are a lot of like things that each
• 54:35
  position can do which is why i think it's a great
• 54:38
  example of this it's like you get on the set
• 54:41
  and your ad or your director is like hey everybody
• 54:45
  we're gonna introduce each other we're all gonna
• 54:47
  like get to know who everybody is by name, by
• 54:51
  face. And then we're going to do a little breathing
• 54:53
  exercise together. And we're also going to establish
• 54:55
  some like actual rules about how this is going
• 54:59
  to function, not just the day, but like how we
• 55:02
  expect people to show up and what we're requesting
• 55:06
  of you and also offering you resources if you
• 55:09
  can't show up that way. So like I do this where
• 55:12
  I'll say like, okay, everybody, like here's some
• 55:15
  of our, here's what the day is going to look
• 55:16
  like. Here's what we're expecting. Here's the
• 55:18
  type of communication we're hoping to have after
• 55:19
  we've done all the intros and everyone feels
• 55:21
  seen as themselves. And then we say like, hey,
• 55:24
  we're going to do a little breathing. We're going
• 55:26
  to do a little minute of quiet meditation, you
• 55:29
  know, just like we used to do for theater, like
• 55:31
  this whole idea. And then it's like. Now I'm
• 55:35
  going to let you know that if you're feeling
• 55:37
  off, if something wrong is happening, if something's
• 55:39
  going on with you, you need to take a step back.
• 55:41
  You're safe to do so. We have a resource for
• 55:44
  you on the side. I will sit with you or I will
• 55:47
  check in with you. We will get you what you need
• 55:50
  and you're not going to be penalized for needing
• 55:52
  help. So I think like all of those things immediately
• 55:56
  established. I see you. I'm glad you're here.
• 56:00
  I value you because I know exactly why you're
• 56:03
  here. You've identified yourself as you choose
• 56:06
  to be identified, including your pronouns, your
• 56:08
  identity. And then you're offered an opportunity
• 56:13
  to connect to self and connect to the group.
• 56:15
  And then you're also given opportunities for
• 56:18
  safety if something goes wrong. And you're not
• 56:20
  going to be penalized for life happening. I think
• 56:23
  that's the thing that happens a lot is we're
• 56:25
  like, if I have a life problem, I can't go anywhere.
• 56:28
  And then I have to suck it in or I have to like
• 56:30
  suffer with it alone. And it's like, no, in a
• 56:33
  safe community, you go to the right. point person
• 56:36
  you say I'm struggling say okay what can we do
• 56:39
  to resolve this what needs to happen here's what's
• 56:42
  possible like I think a lot of it has to do with
• 56:45
  the resource of time and energy it's like are
• 56:48
  we willing to put in enough time and energy to
• 56:51
  help people understand that it's okay for them
• 56:53
  to be human and then that humanity will be honored
• 56:57
  and addressed as it comes up that like I think
• 57:00
  people are like oh I'm wasting time I'm wasting
• 57:02
  energy I'm wasting money it's like But it wastes
• 57:05
  more time, energy, and money if you're not doing
• 57:07
  what you're here to do. It wastes more time,
• 57:09
  energy, and money if we're not sure what's going
• 57:11
  on. It's much better if we communicate clearly,
• 57:15
  if we're present with each other. So I think
• 57:17
  it's really simple things about communication
• 57:20
  and offering the opportunity for people to show
• 57:23
  up authentically, honestly, and then handling
• 57:26
  things as they come. And I really think communication
• 57:29
  is the key. across so many things because if
• 57:33
  I'm the leader of the team and I just say this
• 57:37
  is what I need this is what I expect this is
• 57:39
  how I kind of expect it to be done but I've also
• 57:41
  built in wiggle room if things change and like
• 57:44
  let's communicate like if you if you communicate
• 57:47
  really honestly clearly and with respect and
• 57:50
  you expect that other people in response to you,
• 57:53
  hopefully that's what you get back, and it's
• 57:55
  like this beautiful symbiosis. Sometimes that
• 57:58
  doesn't happen because people are showing up
• 57:59
  however they're showing up, and that's an opportunity
• 58:01
  for you to kind of do intervention of like, hey,
• 58:04
  can we, let's check in. But that's kind of where
• 58:07
  I see it actively coming to life. So in that
• 58:10
  vein, here's something I've struggled with lately,
• 58:11
  maybe you can help me think through, which is
• 58:13
  in an effort to acknowledge that life sometimes
• 58:18
  happens and to give people grace for it, Where's
• 58:20
  the breaking point though? Where's the line?
• 58:23
  Because at some point in time, somebody just
• 58:25
  can't be a part of that thing anymore because
• 58:27
  they can't show up. Yeah. And it doesn't mean
• 58:29
  that they're a bad person, but it might mean
• 58:32
  that they're just not cut out for whatever that
• 58:34
  thing is. At that moment. Yes. Yes. How do you
• 58:37
  find that? Yeah. I think that's a really good
• 58:39
  question. I think this also like comes up in
• 58:41
  relationships a lot where people are like, when
• 58:43
  do I break up with somebody? when do I what do
• 58:46
  I do and I'm like I I think we need to not be
• 58:49
  so afraid again of like what is the mess because
• 58:52
  what is the mess is part of what's human back
• 58:54
  to like our souls our humanness like we love
• 58:57
  our humanness we need to actually act as though
• 58:59
  we do and I do think you know and I've had this
• 59:03
  experience in different arenas of my life where
• 59:05
  I'm like hey You know, we've kind of we've checked
• 59:08
  in. We gave you a little bit of an opportunity.
• 59:11
  You know, you kind of said this is what you would
• 59:12
  like to do. We together we problem solved and
• 59:14
  you came up with a thing. But then I saw that
• 59:16
  it was difficult again, you know, and I think
• 59:19
  it is really dependent on the situation, because
• 59:23
  if it's like, look, I needed this last week and
• 59:26
  it's been a full week and we haven't I haven't
• 59:28
  heard from you. I'm not sure what's going on.
• 59:30
  I think. you know, you can decide what the outcome
• 59:34
  is that we're working toward. Like if we're working
• 59:36
  toward a joint outcome and like your job is like
• 59:39
  very, what you're doing, the skills you bring
• 59:41
  are like very integral to making that job happen.
• 59:44
  It's like at some point you've got to say, this
• 59:47
  is really what I need from you, which is again,
• 59:49
  why I think. clear communication the whole way
• 59:51
  through like I see you're struggling I'm present
• 59:53
  with you let's adjust what can we adjust we adjust
• 59:56
  that doesn't work okay let's see if we can adjust
• 1:00:00
  again if that makes sense but if you're like
• 1:00:02
  I really only have a day maybe this is the time
• 1:00:06
  to step away. And that, again, I think clearly
• 1:00:10
  communicating, this isn't about you as a person.
• 1:00:13
  This isn't a personal indictment of you. But
• 1:00:17
  what it is saying is this thing is requiring
• 1:00:19
  something that you're not quite capable of offering
• 1:00:23
  at the moment, and that's okay. There's just
• 1:00:25
  a misalignment. So we're going to let you go
• 1:00:28
  do the thing you need to do. I'm going to do
• 1:00:30
  this other thing. And then like eventually we'll
• 1:00:33
  find another way maybe. Or who knows? Like maybe
• 1:00:36
  you'll move into a new thing that's better for
• 1:00:38
  you. I think in acting, they always say like
• 1:00:42
  every rejection is redirection. And acting provides
• 1:00:46
  like such a great reminder that like. Because
• 1:00:50
  you have to or else you'll go crazy. I don't
• 1:00:52
  like saying going crazy. You have to or else
• 1:00:54
  you will, like, not be unwell, I would say. Is,
• 1:00:58
  like, you have to remind yourself that, like,
• 1:00:59
  it's not about you. specifically you it's about
• 1:01:03
  like a lot of pieces and things you probably
• 1:01:05
  don't understand and that like it really is like
• 1:01:09
  the moment you lose something like it's just
• 1:01:11
  opening the pathway for you to do something else
• 1:01:13
  and move somewhere else and I think that's true
• 1:01:15
  in life I think that's true in relationships
• 1:01:17
  I think like we have to start seeing things less
• 1:01:20
  as like failures and losses and like permanent
• 1:01:23
  and like like permanent marks on our personal
• 1:01:26
  record as a person and they say something about
• 1:01:29
  us and more about like i'm a human figuring it
• 1:01:32
  out and i'm at this place right now with me and
• 1:01:36
  this place right now with this team or this place
• 1:01:38
  right now with this project or this place right
• 1:01:40
  now with this relationship. And as I keep moving
• 1:01:43
  through my life, things will ebb and flow and
• 1:01:45
  change and I will grow and I'll get better and
• 1:01:48
  I'll whatever, right? Hopefully. But I would
• 1:01:51
  say like we have to be willing to be honest about
• 1:01:53
  the fact that sometimes things aren't meant for
• 1:01:56
  us at the moment or they were and then they misaligned
• 1:01:59
  and we have to move on. And it's the kind of
• 1:02:01
  that doing so with grace. Yeah. And like when
• 1:02:04
  we're the person in charge of the team, I think
• 1:02:07
  we have to like be really gentle because that's
• 1:02:10
  not how people see things often. But I think
• 1:02:13
  like offering people the opportunity to be like,
• 1:02:16
  maybe this just wasn't the right fit right now,
• 1:02:18
  but you are great and it's going to be okay.
• 1:02:22
  Like whatever comes next will be okay. It's just
• 1:02:25
  like we have to keep doing this other thing.
• 1:02:27
  And if you can't be present for it, we're bummed,
• 1:02:30
  but that's okay. Like, everything is going to
• 1:02:32
  be fine. And sometimes with films, I'm like,
• 1:02:35
  guys, we're not flying Artemis 2. Like, we're
• 1:02:39
  okay. You know, like, we're going to be okay.
• 1:02:42
  It's going to be okay. It truly is. But I think
• 1:02:46
  people get so afraid of what things mean. And
• 1:02:51
  I'm really, like, also, like, I really want to
• 1:02:53
  leave room for people to, like. make mistakes
• 1:02:56
  and be human and I think like sometimes people
• 1:02:59
  are like oh well I messed up at this job and
• 1:03:01
  now I'm never going to get a job again because
• 1:03:03
  they're going to go and tell everybody and it's
• 1:03:05
  like I kind of wish we didn't do that unless
• 1:03:08
  someone's like unsafe or we're like really worried
• 1:03:10
  about harm i'm like let people be human and i
• 1:03:13
  think it's okay to be like they were going through
• 1:03:15
  a hard time when i worked with them and so we
• 1:03:17
  had to let them go but i think they're a great
• 1:03:19
  person and they would succeed in this other environment
• 1:03:21
  very well like i think we need to be generous
• 1:03:23
  with each other in that particular way too for
• 1:03:25
  sure yeah i totally agree yeah that's excellent
• 1:03:27
  um okay so let's go to A this or that segment.
• 1:03:33
  Yeah. Okay. You ready for this or that? Yes.
• 1:03:35
  Yes. I love segments. It's going to be just,
• 1:03:38
  you know, if your opinion is controversial, you
• 1:03:41
  might have to defend it. Oh, okay. But let's
• 1:03:42
  just see how that goes. And then after that,
• 1:03:45
  we'll do a rapid fire. Okay. Sorry. My friend
• 1:03:47
  is buzzing. So I was like, I just didn't want
• 1:03:49
  to be loud. You're good. You're good. Okay. Okay.
• 1:03:51
  Here it is. Wally or Eva? Oh, Wally. Okay. Okay,
• 1:03:57
  I would say that as well. Wait, is this like
• 1:04:00
  a you and me if we disagree to defend it? Well,
• 1:04:02
  I mean, if I disagree, I might ask you to defend
• 1:04:04
  it. That's actually a good point. I was like,
• 1:04:06
  I kind of want to see. That's actually the way
• 1:04:06
  I've usually done that. Yeah, I'm like, if I
• 1:04:08
  call you out, I'll be like, hey. You're like,
• 1:04:10
  okay, girl. Yeah, I'll be like, we're talking
• 1:04:12
  about Kiva. Okay. Always amazing. Hover chair
• 1:04:15
  or walking? Walking. I'm going to say yes. I
• 1:04:19
  mean, a hover chair is cool if we actually had
• 1:04:21
  that technology, but like. Yeah, I mean, we've
• 1:04:24
  talked about how walking's helpful. We're here,
• 1:04:25
  like, investing in, like, AI. And I'm like, bro,
• 1:04:29
  could we just, like, invest in making my life
• 1:04:31
  easier? Like, what happened to the Jetsons plane?
• 1:04:36
  I mean, what happened to Back to the Future,
• 1:04:37
  right? His hover skateboard. Like, where are
• 1:04:40
  we with this? Could we invest in, like? Something
• 1:04:43
  that makes it easier for me to remove all the
• 1:04:45
  fur from my clothes? My dog fur that's not a
• 1:04:48
  roller? We've got to be spending this money some
• 1:04:52
  other way. Give me tech that makes my life improved.
• 1:04:57
  Nothing's there yet. Okay, phone call or text?
• 1:05:01
  Phone call. In every context? Well, here's my
• 1:05:08
  weird caveat. Voice messaging. You like voicemails?
• 1:05:12
  Voice messages like text like you like though
• 1:05:15
  you like those I do I actually there's I don't
• 1:05:18
  use them for some reason But I actually think
• 1:05:21
  they're really effective there I think I need
• 1:05:24
  to start doing it more. Okay. That's going to
• 1:05:25
  be, this is going to be, yes. Yeah. I love it.
• 1:05:27
  That's, that's going to be what I do. Yeah. I
• 1:05:30
  also like, you know, Marco Polo and stuff. Like
• 1:05:32
  it's fun to see the other person, but it's still
• 1:05:34
  like, you can still respond when you need to.
• 1:05:36
  Cause the nice thing about text is like, you
• 1:05:38
  can't always respond to a text right away. Although
• 1:05:40
  I feel like the world has become like respond
• 1:05:42
  right away to emails and texts, um, always be
• 1:05:45
  available, which is another problem. But. I'm
• 1:05:47
  like, yeah, I want to be able to have the freedom
• 1:05:50
  of watching and reading when I'm ready. But I
• 1:05:53
  also like the context of hearing people's voice
• 1:05:55
  and how they feel and think. So it's like the
• 1:05:58
  blend. So for me, it's voice messaging. So good.
• 1:06:01
  So good. Okay. And people who know me, like my
• 1:06:04
  friends out there, they know that I'm like an
• 1:06:07
  insane voice messenger. Like, I love them. You
• 1:06:10
  are obsessed. Okay. No, I just like leave really
• 1:06:12
  long voice messages. So it's not like a 20 second.
• 1:06:16
  No, they're like at least four minutes. Wow,
• 1:06:19
  okay. I don't want to say. When you listen back
• 1:06:22
  to those, can somebody listen to it at like one
• 1:06:24
  and a half speed? Yeah, you can speed them up.
• 1:06:26
  Oh, see, that's amazing. See, I'm even more of
• 1:06:28
  a proponent now of this. Because I always listen
• 1:06:30
  to like every podcast, every audio book in like
• 1:06:32
  1 .75 or 2. Yeah. I'm a big podcast girly too
• 1:06:36
  and audio book girly. And I usually do like 1
• 1:06:40
  .5 on that. But sometimes I want to just chill
• 1:06:43
  with them at their speed. You never know. Sometimes
• 1:06:45
  I want a slow day. Well, it's funny when I go
• 1:06:47
  down to one, how slow it seems. Yeah. What I've
• 1:06:51
  also realized listening to this podcast is I
• 1:06:53
  talk really fast. So when I speed it up. You've
• 1:06:56
  kind of always been a fast talker, fast. Anytime
• 1:06:59
  I've performed on stage, I've always received
• 1:07:03
  the direction that I need to slow down. Does
• 1:07:04
  your audience know that you're like a very proficient,
• 1:07:07
  wonderful actor? They probably do not. Yeah,
• 1:07:10
  I haven't talked about it much. Oh my gosh, this
• 1:07:11
  guy's an actor. And he's so good. He's like this
• 1:07:14
  man of many talents, but he's an actor. That's
• 1:07:18
  how we really know each other. It is. It's very
• 1:07:19
  gracious and kind of you. There is something
• 1:07:21
  so fun about being on stage. in the bond that
• 1:07:25
  you build with the people that you're doing it
• 1:07:27
  with, with the bond that you're creating with
• 1:07:29
  the audience. It's unique. Which you can't create
• 1:07:30
  in any other way. Literally any other way. It's
• 1:07:33
  just so, it's really special. It's powerful.
• 1:07:35
  And I love it. Talk about safe community. That's
• 1:07:36
  like a really beautiful community. No question.
• 1:07:40
  Okay. Dinner party or backyard bonfire? Oh. this
• 1:07:46
  really has to do with the food. It's going to
• 1:07:48
  be dinner party for me. Yeah. Just purely based
• 1:07:51
  on the food or like dressing up fancy versus
• 1:07:54
  being super cash? Well, I do love dressing up
• 1:07:57
  fancy. Fame. I love me a gala. Look at you. Yeah,
• 1:08:01
  you're a fancy guy. I also, I love dressing up
• 1:08:05
  fancy. So yeah, I also love good wine. But for
• 1:08:08
  me, dinner party feels like. We prepped a specific
• 1:08:14
  spread of food. And it's like, because I'm all
• 1:08:17
  about that. I'm like, I used to have wine flight
• 1:08:19
  parties where I'd prep specific food to go with
• 1:08:23
  a different wine. See, I don't drink. But if
• 1:08:27
  I did, I would drink wine. And it would be so
• 1:08:30
  that I could pair it with food. Because I love
• 1:08:31
  food so much. Food is amazing. Wine is there
• 1:08:36
  to be paired with it. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay.
• 1:08:39
  Here's our rapid fire. Okay. So just first thing
• 1:08:41
  that comes to your mind. Okay. Okay. Favorite
• 1:08:43
  Disney movie. Encanto. Oh, so good. One of my
• 1:08:47
  very favorites ever. I just love it. I just love
• 1:08:49
  it so much. It's actually, that is my absolute
• 1:08:51
  favorite. Oh my gosh. It is. I just like, so
• 1:08:54
  I love Lin -Manuel Miranda so much. I love the
• 1:08:58
  music. I love the story. There's so many things
• 1:09:00
  about it that like life lessons. I never don't
• 1:09:03
  cry. Like I cry every time. When they start singing
• 1:09:06
  Dos Horiguitas, like girl, and because I speak
• 1:09:09
  Spanish too, for me, like there's this extra
• 1:09:11
  connection I feel like I have because that song
• 1:09:14
  in Spanish is actually more beautiful. Same.
• 1:09:16
  I agree. I listen to the album in Spanish. I
• 1:09:19
  watch the movie in Spanish. I'm all there with
• 1:09:22
  you. My 10 -year -old, she is in dual immersion
• 1:09:24
  right now. Why? I play Name That Tune Disney
• 1:09:29
  with the kids all the time in the car. She always
• 1:09:31
  wants me to play the Spanish versions of the
• 1:09:33
  Encanto songs. That's the way to do it. That
• 1:09:35
  makes me so happy. I listen to Spanish music
• 1:09:38
  mostly, primarily. But then I also will say Monsters,
• 1:09:44
  Inc. is a big fave. It's very good. It's a big
• 1:09:47
  fave. It's very good. Childhood fave was Aladdin.
• 1:09:51
  Okay. See, yeah. You're hitting some great ones.
• 1:09:54
  Like, yes. And Lion King. When I was a kid, I
• 1:09:57
  mean, Jasmine was the bomb. She is. And Aladdin
• 1:09:59
  was so cool. And Aladdin's like, oh, I'm just
• 1:10:02
  like a rebel, so I don't know. Exactly. Like,
• 1:10:05
  every kid, every boy wanted to be Aladdin, right?
• 1:10:08
  Like, oh, man, he's so free and cool. Yeah. And
• 1:10:11
  he's got the best girl. Okay. And along that
• 1:10:15
  vein. Maybe we know the answer to this. Favorite
• 1:10:17
  Disney princess? Jasmine. Although my very close
• 1:10:22
  runner up is Tiana. I'm a huge Tiana fan. I wasn't
• 1:10:27
  before, but the more that I've watched it, the
• 1:10:29
  more that I actually really enjoy that movie
• 1:10:32
  and the music. It also has a great villain, which
• 1:10:36
  we will come to in a second. I love Tiana. I
• 1:10:39
  love Mulan. I love Pocahontas. Those are my girlies.
• 1:10:43
  Favorite... Disney hero or heroine? Oh, oh, this
• 1:10:49
  one's actually harder. Like, okay, give me yours.
• 1:10:58
  Mulan. Okay, so we can make them be a princess
• 1:11:02
  still? Yeah, because I see Mulan as a heroine.
• 1:11:05
  Yeah, me too. Because that's who she is. Like,
• 1:11:07
  I love Mulan. Now, number two is probably Hercules,
• 1:11:10
  but Mulan's my number one. I love Mulan, actually.
• 1:11:19
  I really like Emperor's New Groove. Okay. So
• 1:11:23
  I'm like, I don't really, but I would say actually
• 1:11:25
  say Mulan is probably my favorite hero as well
• 1:11:28
  because she's like so cool. She is so cool. Like
• 1:11:33
  there's so many things about her story. She literally
• 1:11:35
  saves China. Yeah, like she has the best hero's
• 1:11:37
  journey. She does. And I just adore that movie.
• 1:11:39
  And then I would probably say like Mike and Sally.
• 1:11:44
  And then I'd probably say, because I love Monsters
• 1:11:47
  University. And then I really love whatever one
• 1:11:53
  I just said. The movie I just watched. Oh, Emperor's
• 1:11:57
  New Groove. But there's not. Are they heroes?
• 1:12:00
  Is there a hero? I mean, we can go with that.
• 1:12:03
  I actually, this is going to be, hopefully I
• 1:12:06
  don't ostracize anybody. I don't love that movie.
• 1:12:08
  Oh, wow. And here's why. I've watched it once.
• 1:12:11
  It was by myself. And I don't usually, especially
• 1:12:15
  if it's a comedy, I have to watch a comedy with
• 1:12:18
  somebody else. To me, it's a shared experience
• 1:12:20
  of watching something, enjoying it, and having
• 1:12:22
  a connection with the person I'm watching with
• 1:12:23
  to enjoy the humor. When I'm just by myself watching
• 1:12:27
  a comedy, I just don't have the same buzz for
• 1:12:29
  it. Oh my gosh, that's so interesting. And Richard
• 1:12:31
  Grieve is one of my favorite movies ever. But
• 1:12:33
  I do want to kind of go outside of traditional
• 1:12:35
  Disney here for heroes. Cassie and Andor. Okay.
• 1:12:40
  And Anakin, like, he's not a hero, but he's,
• 1:12:43
  like, an anti -hero. And, like, I love Anakin
• 1:12:47
  Skywalker. I think Andor's a really interesting
• 1:12:50
  one because I was actually having this discussion
• 1:12:52
  with somebody early on, actually, our second
• 1:12:56
  episode. And I think he's an interesting one
• 1:12:59
  in the Star Wars universe because he's one of
• 1:13:01
  the heroes that doesn't have the Force. Yeah.
• 1:13:05
  One of the very few. Like, in all of Star Wars
• 1:13:08
  lore. Kind of like the Batman. Yes, he totally
• 1:13:10
  is. Yeah. And he's so compelling. I know. And
• 1:13:14
  it's so good. And I grew up loving Ahsoka as
• 1:13:16
  well, like I've always loved. So funny side note
• 1:13:19
  about me is my very first video game that I played
• 1:13:24
  twice through, three times through, that I was
• 1:13:26
  like, oh my gosh, I can't get enough of this,
• 1:13:29
  was Knights of the Old Republic on Xbox. And
• 1:13:34
  my handle for video games is still Revan because
• 1:13:37
  I'm like a huge Revan fan. So I just like, I
• 1:13:41
  love that universe. And so I feel like there's
• 1:13:44
  some great heroes there. But I'm all about the
• 1:13:47
  like broody anti -hero a little bit. So I'm like
• 1:13:50
  Cassian Andor, Ahsoka, like Anakin. He's not
• 1:13:54
  the hero, but he's the hero. Ahsoka, she's really
• 1:13:57
  good. In fact, when I go get my lightsaber, at
• 1:14:04
  Disneyland, which I will do this year, it's going
• 1:14:06
  to be the dual -wheeled Ahsoka ones because I
• 1:14:09
  wanted to. When my son got one a couple of years
• 1:14:12
  ago, he got Emperor Palpatine's, and he kind
• 1:14:15
  of wanted Ahsoka's, and then I've had my eye
• 1:14:17
  on it since. I'm finally like, next time I go,
• 1:14:19
  I'm just getting them because they're rad. Am
• 1:14:21
  I going to use them ever? Not unless I'm playing
• 1:14:23
  around with him and we're just goofing off, but
• 1:14:24
  I still just want them. They're so cool. Like,
• 1:14:27
  if we're hopping through the universes, then
• 1:14:28
  I'd also have to say Black Panther. Like, he's...
• 1:14:30
  Okay. Yeah. So good. Yeah, Black Panther's fantastic.
• 1:14:35
  Oh, sorry. Yes, hit me. Because I don't know
• 1:14:38
  if this is Disney now, but, like, Spider -Man
• 1:14:43
  and Miles Morales are my favorite heroes, like,
• 1:14:45
  period. Okay. Who was the second one you just
• 1:14:48
  said? Miles Morales. I don't know who that is.
• 1:14:50
  I know, I know. I'm so sorry. He's Spider -Man.
• 1:14:53
  He's Spider -Man? He's Spider -Verse Spider -Man.
• 1:14:56
  Okay, see, there you go. I guess I don't know
• 1:14:58
  enough. Come on, Spider -Man fans out there.
• 1:14:59
  I know, man. Spider -Man fans out there will
• 1:15:01
  be like, Ryan, what are you talking about? What
• 1:15:02
  are you thinking? Because Spider -Man's everything
• 1:15:03
  to me. I love Spider -Man. I mean, I would call
• 1:15:07
  it Disney adjacent now. It's Disney adjacent.
• 1:15:08
  Because they acquired Marvel, right? That's why
• 1:15:11
  I'm not going with it as my top choices. It was
• 1:15:13
  adjacent, yeah. So I went classic Disney, then
• 1:15:16
  we traversed into Pixar a little bit, then we
• 1:15:18
  went further into Star Wars, and now we're going
• 1:15:22
  further. Okay, so hit me with this then. On the
• 1:15:24
  fly, rapid fire. favorite Spider -Man actor?
• 1:15:27
  Oh my gosh, this is such a hard, I have like
• 1:15:29
  a real full answer for this. You wanna know?
• 1:15:31
  Let's hear it. Okay, so I believe, okay, I love
• 1:15:35
  Sam Raimi and I feel like those films are like,
• 1:15:37
  you know, they're core. They're core films for
• 1:15:40
  me in my life. So I feel like Toby is really
• 1:15:45
  good at like broody Peter, like trying to figure
• 1:15:48
  out, like Peter in his family life, Peter in
• 1:15:50
  the world. I feel like Andy is the best Spider
• 1:15:55
  -Man, like in the suit, he's the best Spider
• 1:15:57
  -Man. And then I think that Tom is the best like...
• 1:16:02
  Peter at school. Peter, like, nerdy, like, kind
• 1:16:06
  of kid. He gives the most kid energy. I think
• 1:16:09
  the best Spider -Man is Yuri Lowenthal, the guy
• 1:16:12
  that voices him in the video games. And I think
• 1:16:14
  that Miles is my favorite of Spider -Man. Man,
• 1:16:18
  that is somebody who loves Spider -Man. That
• 1:16:20
  is very thorough. Yeah. I love that. But I, like,
• 1:16:24
  really think if you like Spider -Man at all...
• 1:16:28
  which i feel like you do so you got me if you
• 1:16:30
  like spider -man at all go back and watch the
• 1:16:33
  amazing spider -mans okay like go back and watch
• 1:16:35
  andy because i feel like those got a little bit
• 1:16:37
  like shit on can I say that like a little bit
• 1:16:41
  like denigrated and then like glossed over but
• 1:16:44
  if you watch the movies granted he is kind of
• 1:16:47
  like so beautiful and you're like no guy like
• 1:16:50
  this would ever be like not liked but he's like
• 1:16:54
  too likable but if you ignore that part of it
• 1:16:56
  and you just watch those movies they're great
• 1:16:58
  movies and I think he's really good as Spider
• 1:17:01
  -Man I think that Toby again is like really good
• 1:17:05
  at being like the tension with his family and
• 1:17:08
  the tension with his best friend and, like, all
• 1:17:11
  those elements. And then I really think Tom is
• 1:17:15
  kind of the blend, but he really captures, like,
• 1:17:17
  the youthfulness and the nerdiness. So I think
• 1:17:20
  they all have their strengths. But my favorite
• 1:17:23
  actor is probably Andy because I personally have,
• 1:17:27
  like, the biggest crush on him as a person. I
• 1:17:30
  get it. I love him. As an actor, I have a huge
• 1:17:34
  acting crush on him. I'm like, I want to act
• 1:17:36
  with this person so badly. He's just a phenomenal
• 1:17:39
  actor. Extremely talented. Yeah. Okay. Favorite
• 1:17:43
  Disney villain? My favorite Disney villain is,
• 1:17:47
  oh, I had this in my head just a minute ago.
• 1:17:49
  It's Darth Maul. Okay. Give me a strictly Disney,
• 1:17:55
  not Disney adjacent. Not Star Wars. Okay. Darth
• 1:17:57
  Maul is a great one. I mean, my goodness. Is
• 1:18:00
  he like the most iconic? I love him. My favorite
• 1:18:05
  Disney villain is Maleficent. Actually, the white
• 1:18:09
  queen. The one from Snow White. The evil queen
• 1:18:12
  from Snow White. She's my favorite villain. How
• 1:18:15
  come? She's badass. First of all, she turns herself
• 1:18:19
  into an old hag lady. And I honestly think she's
• 1:18:25
  pretty evil. Like she's legit evil, but she's
• 1:18:28
  also kind of like really cool and hot and strong.
• 1:18:32
  I'm like, she's like, it's funny because. As
• 1:18:35
  I got older, I was like, I kind of want to be
• 1:18:37
  one of these villains. Like, I love Ursula. I
• 1:18:39
  love Maleficent. I love the Evil Queen. But Snow
• 1:18:43
  White is actually one of my very favorite Disney
• 1:18:45
  movies across the board ever. Like, it's a classic.
• 1:18:49
  It's one of the very first. I just love Snow
• 1:18:52
  White. I love that story. And I think I once
• 1:18:57
  wrote an essay about Disney. Disney's stories
• 1:19:02
  and how they, like Disney's interpretation of
• 1:19:04
  stories and how they changed our ways of thinking
• 1:19:07
  about morality and folklore and stuff. And Snow
• 1:19:11
  White was the example I used. But yeah, I love
• 1:19:15
  the Evil Queen in Snow White. I think she's really
• 1:19:17
  cool. She just has a cool outfit. Yeah, she does.
• 1:19:20
  She's stylish. Snow White's a classic. Who's
• 1:19:23
  yours? Who's your favorite villain? You know,
• 1:19:25
  it's probably Scar. I think he's really good.
• 1:19:28
  Got a great villain song. You know, Be Prepared
• 1:19:31
  is, like, such a great song. Also, he's, like,
• 1:19:33
  weirdly hot. As a lion. Who else I like, too,
• 1:19:38
  a lot is Hades. Also another really good villain.
• 1:19:40
  To me, Hades isn't a villain. Well, because he's,
• 1:19:43
  like, I've had this experience with people. He's
• 1:19:45
  good at doing his job. He's, like, this is my
• 1:19:47
  job. Yeah. I'm the god of the underworld. What
• 1:19:50
  else am I supposed to do? Right? I'm out here
• 1:19:52
  just doing my thing. And he's hilarious. I don't
• 1:19:54
  think he's a villain. He's so hilarious. Although
• 1:19:56
  I will say this. I love pain and panic. And so
• 1:19:59
  a lot of times lately I've been saying, like,
• 1:20:02
  I've been using this funny voice. And I'm like,
• 1:20:04
  you know what it is? It's the voice when he's
• 1:20:06
  like, do you remember when all the girls were
• 1:20:07
  named Brittany and all the boys were named Jason?
• 1:20:10
  He's, like, getting smashed. I love Pain and
• 1:20:13
  Panic. I think they're amazing. I love Hades.
• 1:20:15
  I don't see him as a villain. That's fair. Zeus
• 1:20:17
  is the real villain in Greek mythology. Oh, okay.
• 1:20:21
  Greek mythology, okay. I mean, they probably
• 1:20:23
  don't paint him that way in Hercules the movie,
• 1:20:24
  but in Greek mythology, I'm with you. Zeus is
• 1:20:27
  the bad guy. That's good. Okay, so to kind of
• 1:20:31
  take us to a conclusion, what we like to do is
• 1:20:34
  we like to give everybody three actionable takeaways.
• 1:20:37
  Yeah. Three suggestions of what somebody could
• 1:20:41
  put into action today or this week that will
• 1:20:46
  help them to, in their own lives, create safer
• 1:20:51
  communities. I would say action item number one
• 1:20:55
  would be like practice presence. So whether that's
• 1:20:59
  like coming home, turning off devices and like
• 1:21:02
  sitting for 10 minutes to 30 minutes and doing
• 1:21:06
  some observations of what's around you, what
• 1:21:09
  the sounds are, how you're feeling, like doing
• 1:21:12
  some presence work, I think is my first actionable
• 1:21:14
  item. Excuse me, because that's like a connection
• 1:21:17
  to self. So I put that as number one, like start
• 1:21:22
  curating self connection. And like, I think that
• 1:21:26
  can lead to solitude. I think that can lead down
• 1:21:28
  some really cool pathways. I know you and I talked
• 1:21:30
  in our prep about the artist's way, but like
• 1:21:33
  this idea of journaling or like getting into
• 1:21:36
  a space where you're just like really paying
• 1:21:38
  attention in a really. Like all of your energy
• 1:21:42
  is there. All of your time is there. All of your
• 1:21:45
  intention is there. So I think that would be
• 1:21:47
  action item number one. Action item number two
• 1:21:51
  is maybe make some observations about the spaces
• 1:21:58
  you're in. Like, do they feel good? Do they feel
• 1:22:02
  safe? Like, what does safety mean to me? Like,
• 1:22:05
  I have challenged people I've worked with in
• 1:22:08
  the past to think about this. Like, what is the
• 1:22:09
  thing I want from the spaces I'm in? Like, what
• 1:22:12
  would make me feel most like myself in them?
• 1:22:15
  Where do I feel like I could be the most creative?
• 1:22:17
  Like, those kind of things. So I think if you
• 1:22:20
  can define what safety would feel like to you
• 1:22:22
  and start observing your spaces and being like,
• 1:22:24
  do I feel like I'm myself in those spaces? Yes
• 1:22:27
  or no? And I start from there and start going
• 1:22:30
  down like, well, what would need to shift for
• 1:22:32
  me to feel that way? And who would I need to
• 1:22:34
  talk to and things like that? And then I think
• 1:22:37
  my third is like try to connect with someone
• 1:22:41
  else, like about something that you love or about
• 1:22:44
  yourself, like the way we build communities with
• 1:22:48
  each other. So it's like get. get an opportunity
• 1:22:51
  this week at least once to connect with someone
• 1:22:54
  that's not immediately available to you like
• 1:22:56
  not your kid or your partner but like someone
• 1:23:00
  who you have to put some effort into connecting
• 1:23:02
  to and like do it over like the phone or maybe
• 1:23:05
  voice messages maybe a voice message I think
• 1:23:07
  that's the recommendation do a voice message
• 1:23:09
  or in person yeah and like surprise yourself
• 1:23:15
  like practice hey like I read this book or I
• 1:23:19
  listened to this thing. Like, what do you think
• 1:23:21
  about it? I'd love to hear your thoughts and
• 1:23:22
  like practice the active actions around building
• 1:23:26
  community with each other. Those would be probably
• 1:23:28
  my three actions. Absolutely fantastic. Um, so
• 1:23:33
  appreciate you taking the time today. Um, I always
• 1:23:36
  love having a discussion where I feel like I
• 1:23:38
  really learned a lot and I came away from this
• 1:23:40
  really learning a lot. Well, that means a lot
• 1:23:44
  to me. I feel, I feel like, I don't know. I just,
• 1:23:48
  It's really great. Thank you. And I think having
• 1:23:50
  more of these conversations with people is what's
• 1:23:52
  going to help us in this tech world that we're
• 1:23:55
  in, in this age of AI. Yeah. Building these safer
• 1:23:58
  communities that we can be in, that we can be
• 1:24:01
  authentically ourselves. And I think it's just
• 1:24:04
  going to lead to richer lives, better lives,
• 1:24:06
  and better community. I hope so. better off i
• 1:24:09
  i hope so and i will say too you know like i
• 1:24:13
  was telling a friend the other day like think
• 1:24:14
  about everything around you everything we're
• 1:24:16
  looking at like came from the earth i think we
• 1:24:19
  like have removed ourselves from not knowing
• 1:24:21
  which is i think another thing wally brings up
• 1:24:22
  you know it's like everything you touch and look
• 1:24:25
  at like came from the earth so like it's okay
• 1:24:28
  to want to like take care of the earth and like
• 1:24:32
  taking care of each other is taking care of the
• 1:24:34
  earth too so i think like we we can do that like
• 1:24:37
  we can really put the work into just like connecting
• 1:24:40
  in this organic special way and i think you're
• 1:24:43
  right like i think it's going to heal a lot of
• 1:24:45
  people i think it's going to help people feel
• 1:24:48
  less afraid of what's next and we like can then
• 1:24:50
  move forward with a lot more like love and confidence
• 1:24:53
  and sense of sense of safety thank you so much
• 1:25:00
  thank you As you leave this conversation, remember
• 1:25:05
  that yes, the past can hurt and you can either
• 1:25:08
  run from it or you can learn from it. So here's
• 1:25:11
  to learning and finding joy in the journey. See
• 1:25:15
  you real soon.