Latest / Pod Save America / Trump’s Bloodbath? (feat. Katie Porter)

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Trump’s Bloodbath? (feat. Katie Porter) · Pod Save America

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: On today's show, Mike Pence says he won't endorse Donald Trump,
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Chuck Schumer calls for elections to replace Bibi Netanyahu, and later,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Congresswoman Katie Porter stops by to talk about her Senate
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: primary loss to Adam Schiff, 2024, and her future plans.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: But first, Trump's weekend rally in Ohio for Republican Senate
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: candidate Bernie Moreno has dominated the news over the last
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: few days thanks to Trump's comment that if he doesn't
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: get elected, it's going to be a bloodbath for the country.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: The guy that's facing criminal charges for January 6th had
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: been talking about his proposed 100 percent tariff on all
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: imported cars, though the rally also began with a recording
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: of the national anthem sung by violent imprisoned insurrectionists who
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Trump saluted and then promised to pardon on the first
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: day of his presidency. And it didn't get any better
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: from there.
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: Well, thank you very much.
• 1:10
  Speaker 5: And you see the spirit from the hostages and that's
• 1:14
  Speaker 5: what they are as hostages.
• 1:15
  Speaker 6: They've been treated terribly.
• 1:17
  Speaker 5: How about a couple of more indictments, Joe, you dumb
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: son of a.
• 1:22
  Speaker 6: Dumb son of a... Young people, they're in jail for years.
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: If you call them people, I don't know if you
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: call them people.
• 1:29
  Speaker 6: In some cases, they're not people, in my opinion. But
• 1:31
  Speaker 6: these are bad. These are animals, okay?
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: We're going to put a 100% tariff on every single
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: car that comes across the line. And you're not going
• 1:41
  Speaker 5: to be able to sell those cars.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: If I get elected.
• 1:44
  Speaker 5: Now, if I don't get elected, it's going to be
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: a bloodbath for the whole.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: That's going to be the least of it.
• 1:49
  Speaker 6: It's going to be a bloodbath for the country.
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: That'll be the least of it.
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: If this election, if this election isn't won, I'm not
• 1:55
  Speaker 5: sure that you'll ever have another election in this country.
• 1:58
  Speaker 6: Does that make sense?
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: So lots of focus on the bloodbath comment. Trump says
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: he was just talking about the auto industry. Biden says
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Trump wants another January 6th. The whole thing led most
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: of the news coverage over the past few days. What
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: do you guys think?
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: I don't think they're hostages. I also don't think they're
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: very good tenors.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: You don't like the singing?
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: No.
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: We've done this kind of news cycle several times, which
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: is Trump says something ominous and violent, and people point
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: out that, once again, Trump is inciting violence and using
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: dark and dangerous language and violent rhetoric to kind of
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: rile up his base, and then his... His spokesperson said, oh,
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: these people are crazy. And then we kind of rinse
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: and repeat. That was what I thought when I saw that.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, optics and phrasing and context matter in politics.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: Remember a week or two ago, whenever that was, when
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: people were mad at Joe Biden for talking about the
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: Middle East while getting ice cream?
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Right?
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: I remember the Trump campaign being like, guys, come on.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Let's focus on the substance here.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: What he's saying.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: He's talking about a ceasefire. It's very important. So long
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: story short, if you're a guy who led an insurrection
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: on the Capitol, maybe you shouldn't say, if I don't
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: get elected, there will be a bloodbath. That's just a
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: little bit of free advice. He also added in there,
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: and that will be the least of it.
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: So, sorry.
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: Sorry.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: Call me crazy for thinking maybe there's some violence behind it. Also,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: the beginning of the event, I don't know if you
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: guys watched the full event. So, the live stream goes-
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: We did.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: We watched the whole fucking thing.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: So, the stairs are up. The plane pulls up. They're
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: playing the Top Gun theme music. You know, the Joe
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: Satriani guitar.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Sort of sounds like our theme song.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Then they go to YMCA. Then they go to
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: Proud to be American. Then the J6 Choir- Salute! He's saluting.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Saluting convicted felons.
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: He doesn't know what to do with his hands during
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: the song.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Really ominous and weird. So, like, is it a perfectly
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: clean shot at Trump?
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: No.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: But is this somehow out of bounds? Not at all.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: Not at all.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: It doesn't fucking matter. I mean, Trump has threatened violence,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: if he's not elected, multiple times. He most recently threatened, quote,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: death and destruction if he was indicted, which he then was,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: as we all know. I think it was one of
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: the darkest, most threatening speeches any presidential candidate has ever given.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: And that's if you completely remove the bloodbath line altogether.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Let's pretend you completely removed it. I continue to think
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: that one of Trump's most alarming and politically damaging comments
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: is when he promises to pardon the January 6th insurrectionists
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: who have been convicted of violently assaulting police officers. Like
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: these aren't people who went to jail for trespassing like
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: some people on the right say. They weren't peaceful protesters.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: They had weapons. They said they were there to kill
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: elected officials. They tried to kill cops. They beat the
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: shit out of cops. Some of them were beaten so
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: badly that they are permanently injured and disabled. And some
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: of the insurrectionists, by the way, have said that when
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: they get out of prison, they'll be rejoining the fight.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: They were proud boys and part of that group.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: And like, imagine if, imagine Trump pardoning these people who
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: have been found guilty by a jury of their peers
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: or pled guilty and to assaulting police officers. Imagine what
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: it says to other crazies who want to commit political violence.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: It's okay to go commit violence as long as you're
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: on Team Trump. This is the same Trump, by the way,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: who we heard from Mark Esper, his former defense secretary,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: last week, that Trump at one point said to Esper,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: why can't we shoot protesters in the legs, the protesters
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: that were against him? So if you're protesting against Trump,
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: he wants to shoot you in the leg. But if
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: you violently assault a police officer for Trump, he will
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: make sure that you don't see any jail time.
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he also talked about in the speech wanting to
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: somehow indemnify police officers for getting tough on crime, which is, again,
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: just about permission to the people who will do bidding
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: on his behalf.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: It's just, he posted a message once that said, this
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: didn't even, barely covered, I was just reading it. It said,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: free the J6 prisoners, arrest the cops. That was his message.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: That's a good message.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: It's just like, the bloodbath thing, whatever. It's the big focus. Fine. Like,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: let's give him that he was talking about the tariffs.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Fine.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: He's going to like the pardon promise. The pardon on
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: day one is fucking insane.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: The other he also says we won't have an election.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: This will be our last election that Joe Biden will
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: destroy the country. We won't have a country if we
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: elect Joe Biden.
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: Like even if he doesn't say a violent word at all,
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: if you take Trump's words to their logical conclusion, it
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: is a call for violence. When he goes back and
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: says throughout this speech that, you know, the 2020 election
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: was obviously rigged. This wasn't real. What happened wasn't real.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: They're going to steal your country. They're going to take
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: your country from you. There's one thing that was really
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: interesting in the speech. So he does the whole fucking Reagan,
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: this is my microphone thing, about the teleprompters being all
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: wavy in the wind.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the teleprompters were blowing around. He said he couldn't
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: read them.
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: He's not going to pay the teleprompter people, which are
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: his people.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: It's all bullshit. But so.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: but he says at some point, I can't read the teleprompters.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: My team didn't want me to talk about this on
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: the plane. They told me, don't talk about this, but
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: I can't see the teleprompter. Funny fucking Willis. And so
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: there's definitely like an effort of people around Trump to
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: get him focused on the tariffs, the imports, the economy, Biden,
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: and don't want him talking about, uh, don't want to
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: talk about the 2020 election being rigged. Don't want to
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: talking about the prosecutions.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: So the speech is a full 90 minutes. So I don't, uh,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I don't, suggest watching the speech for everyone else.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: We did that for you.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: But I would watch about half of it on double
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: speed because once he gets to the halfway point, it's
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: all about like him and grievance and he starts going off.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: But the first half is just like a very tight
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: argument that is very scary and very threatening. And it
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: tells you what he's focusing on, right? And it's immigration.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: He starts on immigration. He starts on the border. He
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: goes into, he links it to the economic problems that
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: the country's facing. Like it's very.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: It's very specific in that he says he's trying to divide,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: trying to peel off black, Hispanic and union voters from
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: the Democratic Party by saying undocumented immigrants are taking your jobs.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: And he's doing it in this like incredibly gross, lurid way,
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: dehumanizing way. He reads the snake again where he compares
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: migrants to snakes that bite you. And you should have
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: known all along.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's the other thing that's slightly different this
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: time around is it used to be, you know, all
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: immigrants from Mexico that he was railing against in these
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: speeches in 2016. Now he's got this whole thing where
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: all the countries around the world are sending their worst
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: criminals from Venezuela, from everywhere else, from the Congo, all
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: to the United States. This is his thing.
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: What he says is, he goes, he says, they're sending
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: them from countries you wouldn't believe, from Asia, from Africa,
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: from South America. He's notably leaving out Europe, which he
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: doesn't seem to mind.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: He's fine with the Ukrainians. Yeah, it's incredibly racist. Having immigrants.
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: And then he clearly enjoyed he enjoyed he likes this, the,
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: you know, Biden saying that he should have used the
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: word undocumented instead of illegal. And so then he in
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: this part where he's sort of railing against demagoguing on immigration,
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: he says, you know, these are monsters. Some of them
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: are the worst people. They're not even people because he
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: wants to do another cycle of. you know, they're defending,
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: they're defending the worst criminals in the world. I'm trying
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: to defend the border. Like he wants that argument. That's
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: the part that's, that's like pure fun for him.
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: I just think a good tip for everyone, especially when
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: you're out like persuading voters, there is what Trump says
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: and there's what Trump wants to do and what he's
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: going to have the power to do. And he will
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: absolutely have the power to pardon anyone he wants to.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: He's already abused the pardon power in the past. If
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: he wants, he can slap tariffs on foreign autos too.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: This is a small thing, but like, 100% tariffs on
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: imported cars would certainly be an economic bloodbath. Like when
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: he was floating a 25% tariff on imported cars in 2018,
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: economists said that it would add up to 7%.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: So when he was trying to float that in 2018,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: everyone was like, yeah, every car will be. I mean,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: it's the tariff thing I continue to think is like
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: underreported here because it's like he's yelling about inflation. Slapping
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: tariffs on imported goods is going to skyrocket inflation.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard from China.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: It's hard, right, because it gets applause because it's a. anti-trade, pro-American.
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: That's how it's taken.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: That's how it's received.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: It's a pro-American manufacturer.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but even the American car companies, when he was
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: proposed in 2018, were like, no, bad idea. We don't
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: want that.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: Please don't.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: So Republicans mostly used the context defense when asked about
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Trump's bloodbath comments. But one prominent Trump administration official has
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: finally had it with his old boss. Former Vice President
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Mike Pence announced on Fox News that he will not
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: be endorsing Trump and then said on Face the Nation
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: that he isn't too keen on him calling violent insurrectionists
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: hostages and patriots. Let's listen.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: I think it's very unfortunate at a time that there
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: are American hostages being held in Gaza that the president
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: or any other leaders would refer to people that are
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: moving through our our justice system as hostages.
• 11:15
  Speaker 6: And it's just.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: It's just unacceptable. Donald Trump is pursuing and articulating an
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: agenda that is at odds with the conservative agenda that
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: we governed on during our four years. And that's why
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I cannot in good conscience endorse Donald Trump in this campaign.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: So I'll go out on a limb here and say that.
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: Well, that's what they tried to do to him.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: It makes sense. It makes sense for Mike Pence not
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: to endorse the guy who almost got him killed by
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: a violent mob. But how big of a deal do
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: you guys think the Pence non-endorsement is or should be?
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: It's a big deal.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: It's a big deal. It's a big deal. Not because
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of Pence voters out there, but because
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: you tell someone that this guy's former vice president won't
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: endorse him. That's a big deal. And I think, you know,
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: whenever you tweet something like that, people tell you, actually,
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: it's not. It's like, guys, take the win. Let's take
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: the win here. Let's take Mike Pence's comments. And yes,
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: I know the context that he was almost hung. And yes,
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: I know his explanation that it's because Trump is not
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: conservative enough. I know that's annoying. But when you add
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: up Mike Pence, Bill Barr, John Bolton, H.R. McMaster, Jim Mattis,
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: John Kelly, Mark Milley, Nikki Haley until she caves and endorses,
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: get those testimonies in an ad together. Cut them into
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: an ad. Intersperse them with shots of January 6th and
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: people attacking the Capitol. That is powerful. That will send
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: a message to normie voters who are like, that's weird.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: I didn't know all that. Yeah.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Make it matter to like who knows if it matters
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: or not. Make it fucking matter. I mean, the list
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: that you just read, Tommy, the Biden campaign had a
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: statement about it and they used Pence as sort of
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: the as the peg there. And then they had all
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: the different like, you know, secretary of state, multiple defense secretaries,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: multiple national security, all the rest. I think it is
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: very effective for people who are not paying close attention
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: to politics right now.
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's three reasons it matters. One is
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: what you're just saying. I think that, like, if you're
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: just a normal person out there and you hear that
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: the vice president has said that they don't think this
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: person should be elected again, I think that's a big deal.
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: I think, two, I think it is permission or kind
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: of a model for someone like Nikki Haley to follow
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: and for others to follow. And three, I think it
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: is going to annoy the fuck out of Donald Trump.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: And I think he is not going to be able
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: to avoid talking about it.
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: And just, like... you're a voter, you're not sure about
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Trump or Biden or you want, and then you hear
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: all these people who worked closely with him and they said,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: oh no, he's bad. I could not endorse him and
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I worked closely with him. And then you're going to
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: be like, oh yeah, but Greg Kelly on Newsmax told
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: me that Trump is great. I mean, it's like, yeah,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: there's going to be a whole bunch of MAGA voters
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: that think that, but there's a lot of other people
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: are going to be like, wait a minute, wait a minute.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: It's just such a simple argument. Wait, his former vice
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: president won't endorse him?
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 13:49
  Speaker 7: Why?
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: What does he know that I don't know?
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: And Dan pointed this out in message box, which is
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: that like, Mike Pence is a joke to us because
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: we've been paying very close attention to Mike Pence for
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: a very long time. But he was the vice president
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: of the United States.
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: He was a.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Joke to a lot of people.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: But I do also think too, it's like Mike Pence
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: did this on camera, which is better than a lot
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: of these guys that do it in long form Atlantic pieces.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: And it's like, okay, great. We need to see these
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: people on television. I'd like to see some of these
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: people at the fucking Democratic National Convention. Get out of
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: Jeffrey Goldberg's house and go to a studio.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Jeffrey Goldberg's not broadcasting to millions of people from his home.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: Out of Jeffrey Goldberg's dream and into my car.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, also, by the way, one person who's getting back
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: on Trump team. Do you guys hear?
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: What?
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Paul Manafort.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Other convicted felon that Trump pardoned who was working with
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Russia in the 2016 election to help interfere. He might
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: run the convention for Trump.
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: Guy had great ties.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Talks with Paul Manafort.
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: I liked his ties.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Again, criminals that are on Team Trump are not criminals.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: People who are against Trump, even if they're not criminals,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: they're criminals. That's it. That's the whole fucking 2024 election. Okay,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: a couple of things before we head to break. Pod
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Save America is going back on the road this summer
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: for the Democracy or Else Tour. We'll be making our
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: way to Brooklyn, Boston, Madison, Phoenix, Philly, and Ann Arbor.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Our VIP ticket bundles include the best seats in the house,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: plus a signed copy of our new book, Democracy or Else,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: How to Save America in 10 Easy Steps. To see
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: the tour dates and grab your tickets, head to crooked.com
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: slash events. And in case you missed it, the Crooked
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Store just launched our No Trespassing collection. It's inspired by
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: states where Abortions under attack and the T send a
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: message to the right wing freaks trying to take away
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: abortion rights. There's stay out of my swamp, stay out
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: of my hole, stay out of my prickly pear and
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: stay out of my strip.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: That's right. A portion of proceeds will go to Vote
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Save America's Fuck Bans Fund, which currently supports abortion rights
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: organizations across Arizona and Nevada and Florida. Head to cricket.com
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: slash store to shop now. All right, Trump also sat
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: down with Howie Kurtz of Fox News over the weekend
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: and made his most explicit comments yet about his plans
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: for a national abortion ban if he wins in November.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Here he is.
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: You were quoted as saying to one of your aides, well,
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: I like 16 weeks because it's a nice round number
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: four months.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: Do you think that could be politically acceptable?
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: So we're going to find out and pretty soon I'm
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: going to be making a decision. And I would like
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: to see if we could do that at all. I
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: would like to see if we could make both sides happy.
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: A lot of things were done with Roe by killing it.
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: Number one, we brought it back to the states. Of course,
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: your justices to the Supreme Court have made that possible.
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: They did. And, you know, they did something that from
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: a lot of standpoints is extremely good.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: So on Friday's pod, Dan and I talked about Kellyanne's
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: comments on this. She kind of previewed it in an
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: interview with Politico. It certainly sounds like Trump's really going
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: for it here on the national band. Are you guys surprised?
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: And what do you think about the politics of a
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: 16-week ban?
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's some polling that suggests that. There was
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: a YouGov poll recently that said 48% of adults support
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: a 16-week ban. So I think Trump is probably really
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: worried about the Republican Party's position on abortion. He's trying
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: to seem more moderate by sort of putting some guardrails
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: around it. I think Democrats should just seize on the
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: fact that he is now talking about a national ban.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Don't focus on the duration. Say this guy is going
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: to put forward a national abortion ban. It's not going
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: to stop at 16 weeks. He's in league with right
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: wing zealots in Congress, in the courts, Speaker Johnson, people
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: like Mike Pence. Then they will go after IVF. Then
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: they'll go after contraception. Then they will go after there's
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: freaks out there who say they're going to prevent recreational sex.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: Not sure about those people. That's weird. I am.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: And so like this is pretty sure about this.
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: What are you, the institution of marriage?
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: I'm going to stay married by not high-fiving.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Not giving anyone that clip.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: This is about abortion rights and abortion access, but it's
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: also the most obscene government overreach imaginable. If you don't
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: want Speaker Mike Johnson sitting in a little chair next
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: to your bed at night, don't vote for the Republican Party.
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to say something about the polling on abortion, too.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: It's all about how you ask questions.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Politicians, as we have seen, don't really know what the
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: fuck they're talking about with abortion. They think that they
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: know more than doctors and women, but they don't. Certainly
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: voters don't. You can ask a bunch of voters, 16 weeks, 24.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: How many people do you think know the difference in
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: any of the weeks on abortion? How many, when they're
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: answering a pollster's question, just want to go with the
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: more moderate position, right? And I think when, you know,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: I said this last week, but when Glenn Youngkin tried
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: to do the 15 week ban in Virginia and said, oh,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: this is going to be the path. This is going
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: to fix it for Republicans. He got smoked. All the
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Republicans in Virginia got smoked in that race.
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. Also, I just think the more voters
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: learn about what any sort of ban means, the more
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: they come out against it, the more the horror stories
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: that these bans produce.
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: Not just for people who want abortions, but people who
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: want basic medical care, people who have miscarriages, people who
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: who have just sort of a serious complication. The more
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: they find out about that, the more they turn against
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: these kinds of policies.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: This is not an important point, but did you guys
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: notice in the interview that Trump has a new nickname
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: for Jake Tapper?
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: No.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: Do you want to try to guess?
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: It's hard. I mean, could you guess what Picasso would
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: do with paint?
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: No. You can nail this one. Tapper.
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: Tapper. Joke Tapper?
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Joke Tapper?
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: Fake Tapper.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Fake Tapper.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: You did good. You did good.
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: Not as bad.
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: Sorry, Jay.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: Did you see that he just takes a- Gavin Newsom.
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: Gavin Newsom we've seen. The fucking detour he takes to
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: call Pritzker heavy.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Just like- Who orders five cheeseburgers? No one. You do,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: you fuck.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: Also, what does he talk- Is this a real story
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: we're referencing or just made it up?
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know what he was doing.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: He makes up JB's, Governor Pritzker's hamburger order and then
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: gets mad about it.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: What are you talking about? I don't think the guy's
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: all there. One last item before we get to Katie Porter.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. the highest ranking Jewish official
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: in the United States, made quite a bit of news
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: when he called for new elections in Israel to replace
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Bibi Netanyahu in a Senate floor speech where he also
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: condemned the Israeli prime minister for his military campaign in Gaza.
• 20:02
  Speaker 7: However, I also believe Prime Minister Netanyahu has lost his way.
• 20:09
  Speaker 7: by allowing his political survival to take the precedence over
• 20:13
  Speaker 7: the best interests of Israel. He has put himself in
• 20:17
  Speaker 7: coalition with far-right extremists like Minister Smotrich and Ben-Gavir, and
• 20:23
  Speaker 7: as a result, he has been too willing to tolerate
• 20:26
  Speaker 7: the civilian toll in Gaza, which is pushing support for
• 20:29
  Speaker 7: Israel worldwide to historic lows. Israel cannot survive if it
• 20:35
  Speaker 7: becomes a pariah. As a lifelong supporter of Israel, it
• 20:39
  Speaker 7: has become clear to me the Netanyahu coalition no longer
• 20:44
  Speaker 7: fits the needs of Israel after October 7th. At this
• 20:49
  Speaker 7: critical juncture, I believe a new election is the only
• 20:54
  Speaker 7: way to allow for a healthy and open decision-making process
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: about the future of Israel. At a time when so
• 21:02
  Speaker 7: many Israelis have lost their confidence in the vision and
• 21:06
  Speaker 7: direction of their government.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: So Bibi went on CNN over the weekend to call
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Schumer's speech, quote, ridiculous and totally inappropriate. Republicans also criticized
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Schumer for trying to meddle in Israel's affairs. McConnell called
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: the speech grotesque, and Lindsey Graham called it earth-shatteringly bad. Tommy,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: what's your take on the significance of Schumer's speech and
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: the response?
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: If only Lindsey Graham were so offended. When we invade countries,
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: remember invading Iraq? Lindsey, fucking Jesus Christ. Fuck. Should we
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: start with the Schumer speech itself?
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's like an incredibly important inflection
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: point in this debate. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: not a New Yorker, but I don't think most people
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: think of Schumer as anti-Israel. No, man, this is Schumer.
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: Schumer is like as pro-Israel as it gets from New York.
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: I mean, it is such a it is a huge
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: deal for him to do this. I think it's a
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: huge deal. Like, I don't think Chuck Schumer ever forgets
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: the politics.
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: But just forget the politics for him. Personally, I think
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: that this was a very important and big deal. You
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: could feel in his even just his delivery that he
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: took this like really seriously, that this was.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: Like actually a 40 minute speech. He really thought through.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: And by the way, like I think a lot of
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: people talked rightly about the part about calling out Benjamin
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: Netanyahu directly. But even before you get to that, it
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: is a very big deal to say that there are
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: four obstacles to peace and the Palestinian Authority, Hamas, right
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: wing extremists and Netanyahu to say it like that is
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: a very, very big deal.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was a big deal policy wise.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: I think it was a big deal for Schumer personally. Personally,
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: I also tells you a lot about the kind of
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: political pressure that Schumer must be under from New York
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: in terms of a primary possibly, but also within his
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: Senate caucus and the progressive flank in the Senate caucus.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: And yet to those four impediments for peace. I mean,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: I think he's right about all of them. Netanyahu, Abbas,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: the leader of the PA, Hamas, obviously, and he's like
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: right wing extremists. It's a little uncomfortable to hear a U.S.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: lawmaker say a foreign head of state should go. But
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: like Netanyahu meddles in U.S. politics all the time. Him
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: being on all the Sunday shows all the time is
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: him trying to influence American politics. This is a guy
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: who worked with Republicans in Congress to schedule a joint
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: session speech going around the Obama White House, working with
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: the Republican Speaker of the House to try to upend
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: and prevent the passage of the Iran nuclear agreement. And
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: then more recently, the prime minister's Twitter account has been
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: bragging about promoting laws in U.S. states across the country
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: to punish Americans who support the BDS movement. So- Give
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: me a break with that nonsense.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: It's also I thought it was, you know, there were
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: some people online saying, oh, Schumer is coming out for
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: conditioning aid to Israel. And it's like I read the
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: speech and I didn't see that. Then I went back
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: just to kind of find like what could there be
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: in the speech that actually makes reference to that? And
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: it says, if Prime Minister Netanyahu's current coalition remains in
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: power after the war begins to wind down and continues
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: to pursue dangerous and inflammatory policies that test existing U.S.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: standards for assistance, then the United States will have no
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: choice but to play a more active role in shaping
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: Israel policy by using our leverage to change the present course.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: And I took that to be the reference to conditioning aid.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: But I think it speaks of just how much we
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: aren't meddling in Israeli politics, despite how much money we
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: send over there, despite how much money we send there
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: for munitions, despite how much military aid we send there,
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: that even in this context, this is as far as
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: Schumer is willing to go. I am glad Schumer is pushing...
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: in this direction. I think it speaks to how much
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: the politics on this issue are changing and how much
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: someone like Chuck Schumer has come to believe that it
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: is no longer in Israel's interest to back someone like Netanyahu.
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: But the fact that this is as far as the
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: democratic leader can go now, even in this context to
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: say at the end of the war, then we can
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: begin to consider potentially a conditioning aid when we should
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: be conditioning the aid we give them because we believe
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: it is in Israel's best interest. It just tells you
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: that even though this is a very big deal for
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: Schumer to do this, just how difficult the politics on
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: Israel remain even for Democrats.
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I just, I mean, the aid thing just drives me
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: crazy because like Netanyahu going on CNN and being like,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: how dare you meddle in our country's affairs and all
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: this stuff. It's like, we're giving you just like Billions
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: of dollars in military aid. What are you talking about?
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: $ 3 billion a year. I mean, also, people in Gaza
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: are starving to death right now as we speak. And
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: they are starving to death because Israeli authorities are not
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: letting enough aid trucks into Gaza, period. That is why.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: The U.S. cannot airdrop enough aid in to change the calculus.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: We cannot construct a port off the coast of Gaza
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: fast enough. You have to let these trucks into the
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: Gaza Strip. And they have to let, like, Not 100
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: of them, not 200, like 500, 600, 700. People are
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: starving to death, especially in northern Gaza. And so, you know,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: for him to complain that, you know, people are criticizing
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: his leadership at a time of this war just going
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: catastrophically badly for everyone involved is so maddening.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: What did you make of Biden's response to Schumer's speech
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: where he was sort of careful? He said, yeah, they
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: talked to us about the speech. Like, I'm not going
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: to add anything to it, but he's definitely, he said
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: what a lot of Americans are feeling.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: I would like it to be where Biden is personally.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know that to be true. Hopefully, what Biden
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: is probably thinking is he can be very hard on
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: the Israelis and threaten to cut off aid, but there
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: might be a veto-proof majority in Congress to go around
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: him because Democrats and Republicans have historically have supported a
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: lot of aid to Israel. But I think what Schumer's
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: speech is getting at is just how unique Israel extreme
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: this Netanyahu coalition is. Like one of the guys he
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: mentioned by name, Itamar Ben-Gavir, who's currently the national security minister,
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: until very recently had on his wall in his home,
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: a photo of a man named Baruch Goldstein, who is
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: an Israeli, American Israeli mass murderer. He shot and murdered
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: 29 Palestinians while they were praying during Ramadan. He had
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: a photo of this man on his wall. This is
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: a guy who was untouchable in Israeli politics, untouchable. No
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: one would talk to him, work with him. consider him
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: as part of a government until very recently. And now,
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: because Netanyahu has all these corruption cases barreling down at
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: him and he needs to be in charge to try
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: to create a way to get around them, he's working
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: with guys like Itamar Ben-Gavir, right? And so that is
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: kind of the out that Schumer gives him in the speech,
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: which is if you jettison Ben-Gavir, if you jettison Smotrich,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: the finance minister, maybe there's a path forward where you're
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: kind of, you know, like, I won't call on you
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: to go, I guess, but It's such an extreme coalition
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: that it's leading to these unique responses.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: Chuck Schumer has spent literally decades building relationships, campaigning among
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: all kinds of Jewish communities all across New York. He
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: has to feel he has the credibility to push on this,
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: which is why I think he felt he could give
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: this speech. I still think that he can go further.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: I still think there's a kind of deference between to
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: the old politics of Israel that, I don't know, it
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: feels like it's from another time. And that like in
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: this moment, to say like in the future, we might
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: have to use our leverage, we can use our leverage
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: right now.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: What the speech was missing is we need to ceasefire
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: right now.
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: You know, and I think part, like he talks about
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: the context, which is there is a ceasefire agreement that's
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: been offered by the Israeli side. I think there were
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: reports that Hamas rejected it. I don't really know where
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: those talks are at the moment. It takes days and
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: days and days to sort of get a response because
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: Think about it. Like you're having these talks mediated in
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: a place like Qatar and it's like the Egyptians and
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: the Israelis and the U.S. And they have to go
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: through a go between to get a message into Gaza,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: into some tunnel that Hamas has to speak to leaders
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: there who can actually like make the call to stop fighting.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: So it takes forever to figure things out. But I
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: would like to see Biden, Schumer, everyone involved to say
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: like we need a unconditional ceasefire right now to get
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: humanitarian aid.
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: When we come back, we will talk to Katie Porter
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: right here in studio. Joining us now in studio for
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: her first interview since the California Senate primary, a good
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: friend of the pod, Congresswoman Katie Porter. Welcome back.
• 29:19
  Speaker 6: Thank you.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Good to see you.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: All right. You've had a few weeks to decompress from
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: the Senate race. You probably could use a few weeks more.
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: One week and four days. Okay, perfect.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: I've lost all track of time. Looking back on everything,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: what is your take on what happened?
• 29:36
  Speaker 8: Well, I mean, first off, California is our largest state democracy.
• 29:39
  Speaker 8: And in election here between Democrats is always super competitive.
• 29:43
  Speaker 8: So I've been in politics long enough to watch great
• 29:46
  Speaker 8: candidates run great races and not win. I'm proud of
• 29:49
  Speaker 8: the campaign we ran. It was a campaign centered on
• 29:52
  Speaker 8: my values, including campaign finance reform, calling attention to issues
• 29:56
  Speaker 8: like housing, which have not always been at the top
• 29:59
  Speaker 8: of Democrats' priorities list, but really are at the top
• 30:02
  Speaker 8: of Californians' priorities. So look, I think that it's too
• 30:06
  Speaker 8: early and from any one race, you can't prognosticate about
• 30:09
  Speaker 8: what the cycle holds. But I think we ran a
• 30:12
  Speaker 8: good race and I think we pushed on issues and
• 30:14
  Speaker 8: on things. So, you know, if I hadn't been in
• 30:16
  Speaker 8: the race as someone who has never taken corporate PAC money,
• 30:19
  Speaker 8: I don't know if we would have seen the other
• 30:21
  Speaker 8: Democratic candidates come to that as a new policy position.
• 30:24
  Speaker 8: So I had a lot of fun doing it. So
• 30:26
  Speaker 8: I'm overall, of course, it was a disappointing result, but
• 30:29
  Speaker 8: I'm glad I did it.
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: Now at the, You got in some controversy when you
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: exited the race by using the word rig to describe it.
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: How do we stop the steal? Is Hugo Chavez involved?
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: And how do we stop him?
• 30:48
  Speaker 6: So, obviously....
• 30:50
  Speaker 8: I wish I had chosen a different word because what
• 30:53
  Speaker 8: happened with the controversy was it took away from two
• 30:56
  Speaker 8: really important truths. One, our California election officials do a
• 31:00
  Speaker 8: terrific job. I have been through competitive, close elections where
• 31:04
  Speaker 8: it has taken days to count. And so I have
• 31:06
  Speaker 8: tremendous respect for them. So I want to really make
• 31:09
  Speaker 8: clear that at no time and in no way would
• 31:11
  Speaker 8: I ever suggest that there's anything other than a careful, thoughtful,
• 31:15
  Speaker 8: amazing election system that actually should be the model for
• 31:17
  Speaker 8: a lot of the country, in my opinion. The second
• 31:20
  Speaker 8: truth that is really important that got lost in all
• 31:22
  Speaker 8: of that is that big money does influence our elections.
• 31:26
  Speaker 8: Outcomes are manipulated and distorted when you have people coming
• 31:31
  Speaker 8: in spending millions and millions of dollars at the last minute.
• 31:34
  Speaker 8: And that money is not disclosed until after the election.
• 31:37
  Speaker 8: So people don't know about it. They can't take it
• 31:39
  Speaker 8: into account when they vote. And we're already seeing, like
• 31:42
  Speaker 8: with this fair shake pack, they're making noises about threatening
• 31:45
  Speaker 8: Sherrod Brown, Jon Tester. These are people who are not
• 31:49
  Speaker 8: necessarily interested in making sure Democrats have the majority and
• 31:51
  Speaker 8: we can stand up to Donald Trump. They have a
• 31:54
  Speaker 8: very different agenda than I feel like this entire race
• 31:56
  Speaker 8: should have been about.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember when I first saw this statement, I
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Writing speeches for Obama, we would say, like, lobbyists rigged
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: the system and money rigged the system. And then I
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, yeah, that's like a pre-2020. It was
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: OK to say the system was rigged by money and
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. But post-Donald Trump actually calling an election rigged,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: not as much.
• 32:20
  Speaker 6: I thought about this.
• 32:23
  Speaker 8: Early in 2018, maybe when I first ran, I wore
• 32:26
  Speaker 8: a red dress somewhere toward a campaign event.
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: And somebody said, because, you know, people give you a.
• 32:31
  Speaker 8: Lot of advice as a candidate. And someone said, you
• 32:35
  Speaker 8: can't wear red. That's Donald Trump's color.
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: And I was like, I'm not giving that guy a color.
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: No.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Like, please, please.
• 32:42
  Speaker 6: Like, he doesn't own red.
• 32:43
  Speaker 8: Look, I think we do need to find words that
• 32:46
  Speaker 8: connect with today's electorate that do not create wrong associations
• 32:51
  Speaker 8: that really do drive a conversation about money in politics.
• 32:55
  Speaker 6: And I think we are in a little bit different.
• 32:57
  Speaker 8: Place than we were when I was elected in 2018
• 33:00
  Speaker 8: with a whole group of new House members, first-time candidates,
• 33:03
  Speaker 8: people who rejected corporate PAC money. And I do think
• 33:06
  Speaker 8: there's a place where now we're in a little bit
• 33:08
  Speaker 8: of this anything to.
• 33:10
  Speaker 6: Stop Donald Trump. And so, you know, the goal is
• 33:14
  Speaker 6: obviously we must stop Donald Trump. But I know that.
• 33:17
  Speaker 8: The best way to do that is to run and
• 33:20
  Speaker 8: campaign on better governance and making sure that we're not
• 33:23
  Speaker 8: having influence peddling and lobbyists and those kinds of because
• 33:26
  Speaker 8: Americans don't like that.
• 33:27
  Speaker 6: And swing voters really don't like that.
• 33:31
  Speaker 8: And so I don't want to lose that as an
• 33:34
  Speaker 8: important narrative and a talking point and a winner. So
• 33:36
  Speaker 8: think about Conor Lamb and his election when he won
• 33:39
  Speaker 8: in 2016 and what a big deal that was. It's 2017.
• 33:43
  Speaker 8: I mean, I think it's important that we still talk
• 33:44
  Speaker 8: about this as Democrats. And I don't see as much
• 33:47
  Speaker 8: talking about.
• 33:48
  Speaker 6: It as I think we should.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: And I want to unpack the stakes of some of
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: the spending you're talking about. So this pro-crypto super PAC
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: came in and just dumped money into your race near
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: the end. In the past few years, there have been
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: all these people who are harmed by the implosion of
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: crypto companies like FTX. There were entire currencies that collapsed
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: like Terra and Luna. There were outright scams where people
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: just bought bullshit coins. They got pump and dumped and
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: they lost all their money. Now the price of Bitcoin
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: is up again. It feels like this cycle of boom
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: and bust and big winners and big losers is happening
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: all over again. Is government doing anything to stop it?
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: And what do you think the role of big money
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: super PACs, people like Marc Andreessen, right, who these venture
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: capitalists who are spending billions to influence the debate in
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: Washington is like?
• 34:37
  Speaker 6: So first, it's so interesting.
• 34:39
  Speaker 8: You are the first person to actually ask me about
• 34:43
  Speaker 8: crypto policy.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Is that good or bad?
• 34:46
  Speaker 8: Well, I mean, it's interesting that people came in and
• 34:49
  Speaker 8: spent $ 10 million, which I think we should put it
• 34:52
  Speaker 8: in perspective in this race was a huge sum of money,
• 34:55
  Speaker 8: particularly because it was all Every dollar of it was
• 34:57
  Speaker 8: spent on negative toward me, and I was the only
• 35:00
  Speaker 8: candidate who faced negative. My colleagues, Adam and Barbara, Steve Garvey,
• 35:04
  Speaker 8: there was no negative on them.
• 35:07
  Speaker 6: And so there.
• 35:08
  Speaker 8: Was no, like, what are your views on crypto, Katie?
• 35:11
  Speaker 8: How do you see crypto affecting the economy? Do you
• 35:14
  Speaker 8: believe blockchain can be a force for good? The answer
• 35:16
  Speaker 8: to that last question, of course, is yes. There wasn't
• 35:19
  Speaker 8: any of that. There was just the first notification I
• 35:23
  Speaker 8: got about this was the disclosure of the spending. And
• 35:26
  Speaker 8: so this wasn't actually a conversation that I think we
• 35:29
  Speaker 8: should be having about crypto, about technology in Congress. I mean,
• 35:33
  Speaker 8: I have colleagues who are tic-tac-mints and tic-tac-toeing. I mean,
• 35:39
  Speaker 8: we do need to talk about technology, about financial markets.
• 35:42
  Speaker 8: I mean, but unfortunately, and this is where I think
• 35:45
  Speaker 8: it's sort of a really disingenuous spending. Why I feel
• 35:49
  Speaker 8: comfortable calling it kind of I don't mean dark money
• 35:52
  Speaker 8: in the sense that we don't know the players. We
• 35:54
  Speaker 8: know the billionaire's names. But dark in the sense of
• 35:57
  Speaker 8: this wasn't about crypto policy. This wasn't about engaging me,
• 36:01
  Speaker 8: seeing what I think, teaching me, coming to a policy understanding.
• 36:05
  Speaker 6: This was just a little bit.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: They thought you were going to be the toughest. Well,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: this is like a group called- Just a guest.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: There's a group called DMFI that ostensibly advocates on behalf
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: of Israel. And what they do is they have a
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: super PAC that goes in and runs negative ads against
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: progressive Democrats on issues- about everything except Israel. This is
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: sort of like the new trend you're seeing in super
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: PAC spending.
• 36:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, no, I think that's right.
• 36:28
  Speaker 8: And I think, I mean, look, the point I think is,
• 36:31
  Speaker 8: should there be a robust policy conversation about crypto?
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 36:35
  Speaker 6: Candidates should be asked about this.
• 36:37
  Speaker 8: We know that about, you know, 20% of Americans may
• 36:39
  Speaker 8: have some kind of crypto assets. Congress has been grappling
• 36:43
  Speaker 8: with this, but, you know, true to its motto, solving
• 36:45
  Speaker 8: yesterday's problems tomorrow, Congress has not done anything about it yet. So,
• 36:50
  Speaker 8: What's unfortunate and what I think when I say sort
• 36:53
  Speaker 8: of this race was manipulated by this spending is it
• 36:57
  Speaker 8: wasn't spending.
• 36:58
  Speaker 6: To create a debate about policy issues. That's good.
• 37:04
  Speaker 8: That's the nature of a system we have. This was
• 37:06
  Speaker 8: spending to actually bury a conversation and a candidate who
• 37:12
  Speaker 8: might have had a thoughtful position, which to this day, like,
• 37:15
  Speaker 8: they don't know what my crypto views are because they
• 37:17
  Speaker 8: never asked.
• 37:18
  Speaker 6: Nobody's asked until now.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I feel like one of the reasons you don't hear
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: a big public debate about money in politics anymore is
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: because of Citizens United. And once Citizens United happened, everyone's like, OK, well,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: that's the Supreme Court. We don't have the Supreme Court.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: It's impossible. You know, it's possible to pass legislation now.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: So we're just going to make sure that we don't
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: unilaterally disarm as Democrats and we're going to spend. And
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: then that's that. Have you thought about like going forward?
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Is there anything we can do about money in politics
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: short of getting a new Supreme Court?
• 37:49
  Speaker 8: There's lots we can do about money in politics. Look,
• 37:52
  Speaker 8: do we, do I want to see that decision gone?
• 37:54
  Speaker 8: You bet, you bet. But I think this is about
• 37:58
  Speaker 8: recognizing our own roles as leaders. So I ran and
• 38:02
  Speaker 8: won the most expensive house race in the United States
• 38:05
  Speaker 8: last cycle without taking corporate money, without taking federal lobbyist donations.
• 38:13
  Speaker 8: So this argument that yet you can't do it without
• 38:15
  Speaker 8: the money. Just it, Here I am in my chair,
• 38:18
  Speaker 8: Congresswoman Katie Porter, like it can be done. So I
• 38:21
  Speaker 8: do think that we're.
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: Allowing in a larger.
• 38:24
  Speaker 8: Way, the fear of Trump, the stakes are so high
• 38:29
  Speaker 8: for LGBTQ rights, for abortion rights, for all of these
• 38:32
  Speaker 8: things that we care passionately about to allow certain forces
• 38:38
  Speaker 8: that benefit from the status quo to convince us we
• 38:41
  Speaker 8: can't afford to change and we can't afford to be different.
• 38:43
  Speaker 8: And I think the ultimate problem with that is we're
• 38:45
  Speaker 8: having a real problem with younger voters. We're having a
• 38:48
  Speaker 8: problem with people choosing to register no party preference. Like,
• 38:52
  Speaker 8: how do we build our party? What is our forward
• 38:55
  Speaker 8: future message? And I think if I take anything away
• 38:57
  Speaker 8: from this race, I really tried to focus on that.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: What are we going to do next?
• 39:03
  Speaker 8: Where do we go in our economy? Where do we
• 39:05
  Speaker 8: go in our society? And I think that the specter
• 39:08
  Speaker 8: of Donald Trump looms large. And I absolutely feel that.
• 39:12
  Speaker 8: And so people were like, we got to think everything.
• 39:15
  Speaker 8: Every decision has to be made in tension with Trump. Soon,
• 39:20
  Speaker 8: Trump will lose or go to prison or I don't know,
• 39:24
  Speaker 8: have a heart attack.
• 39:25
  Speaker 6: I'm not sure.
• 39:26
  Speaker 8: I don't know what his demise is going to be,
• 39:27
  Speaker 8: but he'll have his demise. And the question will still
• 39:30
  Speaker 8: be there. Who are we as Democrats? What economy do
• 39:34
  Speaker 8: we want? What society do we want? What's our plan
• 39:39
  Speaker 8: on climate change? These questions don't become less relevant because
• 39:43
  Speaker 8: of Donald Trump. They actually become more relevant because Because
• 39:47
  Speaker 8: of Donald Trump. And so I think that is sort
• 39:49
  Speaker 8: of an aspect of this that I don't buy the premise.
• 39:52
  Speaker 8: I reject the premise that we can't do anything on
• 39:54
  Speaker 8: campaign finance because.
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: The law, no one requires you.
• 39:57
  Speaker 8: I always tell my kid this, he was learning how
• 39:59
  Speaker 8: to drive. You know, it's called a speed limit. It
• 40:03
  Speaker 8: means you can't go faster. No one says you have
• 40:05
  Speaker 8: to go faster.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: 65.
• 40:07
  Speaker 6: You can go 63, right?
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: I think that van's going 67.
• 40:11
  Speaker 8: I don't want to talk about the van's speed limit,
• 40:15
  Speaker 8: but I'll just say it has a V8 and a
• 40:17
  Speaker 8: very large engine.
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: But I do want to say, because it's legal to
• 40:23
  Speaker 6: take corporate PAC money, you don't have to do it.
• 40:25
  Speaker 8: And so I feel like one of the things that
• 40:26
  Speaker 8: people said back during this whole controversy in the wake
• 40:29
  Speaker 8: of the election was, nobody broke the law here.
• 40:32
  Speaker 6: I think that's right.
• 40:33
  Speaker 8: It's legal for billionaires to give millions to super PACs
• 40:38
  Speaker 8: who put false ads on TV. That sadly is legal
• 40:41
  Speaker 8: in our system, but I'm a policymaker. So my job
• 40:45
  Speaker 8: is to talk about what should be. I'm not a
• 40:48
  Speaker 8: litigator or a juror figuring out what is or isn't legal.
• 40:52
  Speaker 8: My job is to raise what we should be doing
• 40:54
  Speaker 8: in our democracy and to be kind of a bulwark
• 40:56
  Speaker 8: for that.
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: So you talk a little bit about getting elected despite
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: not taking this kind of money. in a district where
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: you can kind of like fight more hand-to-hand combat, you
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: can get out there, you can meet a ton of voters,
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: you can do it yourself. California is the biggest state
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: in the country. It's a bit more like a national election.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: You know, every winning campaign, every decision they made makes
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: some geniuses, every losing campaign, everything was a mistake. But
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: you were trying to turn out the kind of voters
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: that Democrats need in other places, younger people, more disaffected people,
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: people that are maybe don't like the Democratic Party very much,
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: what have you. What did you learn about trying to
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: get those people to turn out Where do you think
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: Democrats need to do better? Where do you wish you
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: did better?
• 41:36
  Speaker 8: So I think turning out those voters who are skeptical
• 41:39
  Speaker 8: about Democrats and Republicans who think that there's nothing really
• 41:44
  Speaker 8: changes no matter who's in office. I disagree with that.
• 41:47
  Speaker 8: But there are voters who feel that way. And we've
• 41:49
  Speaker 8: knocked doors and I've talked to them. I think TV
• 41:52
  Speaker 8: advertising is a tough way to engage those people. I
• 41:55
  Speaker 8: think mass marketing advertising is a tough way to engage
• 41:59
  Speaker 8: those people. Door-to-door works, more long-term back-and-forth, like real texting,
• 42:05
  Speaker 8: not spam texting, but conversational texting, which is a real
• 42:08
  Speaker 8: thing that I've used in some other campaigns. And those
• 42:11
  Speaker 8: things are hard to deploy in a state with 39
• 42:14
  Speaker 8: million people.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: I watched a focus group of California Democrats for Sarah
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Longwell's pod right before the race, and everyone liked you.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: But then a lot of them were just like, I
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: don't know too much about her. You know, it's like
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: I've seen Schiff. He's on TV all the time. I've
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: seen him on MSNBC. I've seen him on Fox. I've
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: seen him here and there. I'd like to learn more
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: about her, but I just don't know enough yet. Do
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: you think that at the end of the day, it
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: was like a name ID thing? Sort of like you
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: just didn't, for people who aren't from this region, like
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: in Northern California, just didn't, you didn't have enough money
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: to get on the air or to build the kind
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: of relationships that you're talking about.
• 42:50
  Speaker 8: When you're outspent three to one, as we were, and
• 42:54
  Speaker 8: really particularly at the end, right, by.
• 42:57
  Speaker 6: Schiff's super PAC, the $ 5.
• 42:58
  Speaker 8: Million that AIPAC put into United Democracy Project at the end,
• 43:02
  Speaker 8: that was most of his super PAC funding. I mean, yes,
• 43:06
  Speaker 8: I think there's a communication and a resource problem. And look,
• 43:09
  Speaker 8: I think there is a tension. People always say, and
• 43:11
  Speaker 8: you guys hear them say this when you knock doors, like,
• 43:14
  Speaker 8: I don't want career politicians, right? And yet, there's a
• 43:20
  Speaker 8: comfort and a familiarity in this very scary time in
• 43:25
  Speaker 8: more of the same, right?
• 43:26
  Speaker 6: And so I think.
• 43:28
  Speaker 8: you know, this is something that I think President Biden's
• 43:30
  Speaker 8: going to face in his campaign. I think Democrats are
• 43:32
  Speaker 8: going to face this generally, right? Which is sort of
• 43:35
  Speaker 8: the rank and file, like really traditional Democrats who are like,
• 43:39
  Speaker 8: we want to not do anything risky, no big policy changes,
• 43:44
  Speaker 8: like stay the course, just beat Trump, any means necessary
• 43:48
  Speaker 8: versus kind of the voters that we're not really connecting with.
• 43:54
  Speaker 8: for whom that's not going to be an engaging message, right?
• 43:56
  Speaker 8: And so I think we'll see this play out in
• 43:59
  Speaker 8: other places. And I think it's something Democrats have to
• 44:02
  Speaker 8: think about. I mean, look, I find myself in the
• 44:04
  Speaker 8: position now of having a president in President Biden who
• 44:09
  Speaker 8: I think is more forward-looking, more future-oriented, and more progressive
• 44:15
  Speaker 8: than the Congress. And wow, is that a reversal from
• 44:21
  Speaker 8: where we were when I was elected in 2018 and
• 44:23
  Speaker 8: during that presidential race, right, in which President Biden ran
• 44:26
  Speaker 8: as kind of a moderate traditional candidate. But now he's
• 44:29
  Speaker 8: at the front pushing on child care, pushing on climate,
• 44:32
  Speaker 8: pushing on taxing billionaires.
• 44:34
  Speaker 6: Where's Congress on those issues? Oh, it sounds, I don't know.
• 44:39
  Speaker 8: I mean, a bunch of weenies kind of. So I
• 44:41
  Speaker 8: think that is a really interesting reversal we find ourselves
• 44:46
  Speaker 8: in now.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: And part of what's changing beneath all of our feet
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: is the way that voters get information and communicate with
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: each other. One issue along those lines that was before
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: Congress recently was whether or not to force a sale
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: of TikTok and ban it. You voted against the TikTok ban, correct?
• 45:03
  Speaker 8: I voted against the TikTok ban in this piece of legislation.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: Why? Oh, so can you just explain why you voted
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: that way?
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 45:10
  Speaker 6: So Look, I've said this before.
• 45:12
  Speaker 8: I think if you're doing this job in Congress right,
• 45:15
  Speaker 8: it is a teaching and learning job. So there's a
• 45:17
  Speaker 8: lot of listening to where people are, what they're concerned about,
• 45:21
  Speaker 8: learning about things like the national security issues that are
• 45:25
  Speaker 8: presented by TikTok. But then there's this teaching part of
• 45:28
  Speaker 8: telling the American people why you're doing.
• 45:30
  Speaker 6: What you're doing.
• 45:32
  Speaker 8: We did not do that on this bill, like at all.
• 45:36
  Speaker 8: So this was rushed through. Neither party actually whipped on it,
• 45:40
  Speaker 8: but they tried to put it up on suspension. They
• 45:43
  Speaker 8: had a classified briefing like the day before. And we
• 45:46
  Speaker 8: didn't bring Americans into the conversation to have them understand
• 45:53
  Speaker 8: what we're doing, why we're doing it. This is something
• 45:55
  Speaker 8: that people like and use. So if you're going to
• 45:58
  Speaker 8: make that kind of change, and I do think there
• 46:00
  Speaker 8: are real concerns about You know, data sharing about data privacy,
• 46:04
  Speaker 8: about foreign ownership.
• 46:05
  Speaker 6: Of media like these are real concerns.
• 46:08
  Speaker 8: You've got to bring Americans into the conversation and you've
• 46:11
  Speaker 8: got to have a robust discussion and a carefully drafted bill.
• 46:14
  Speaker 6: This wasn't it.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: And so, yeah, I mean, look, I'm I don't love that.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: The only thing that is bipartisan in Washington is kind
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: of Cold War 2.0 anti-China stuff. I mean, this bill
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: came out of the select committee on the Chinese Communist Party.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: That's a thing that was stood up in, what, 2023?
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: So that's half of my brain on this. The other
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: half is, well, Xi Jinping is a really scary bad guy.
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: He will do whatever he can to advance his agenda.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: Often that agenda is whatever weakens the West. Chinese hackers
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: go after U.S. intellectual property on behalf of the government.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: Chinese researchers and academics steal secrets all the time. If
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: the United States had access to a tool that could
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: influence the feeling and thinking and emotions of 300 million
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: Chinese people, we would probably fuck with it via the CIA.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: And so I just wonder how you kind of balance,
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: you know, I think what, you know, a well-articulated view
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: that this was rushed, this was not the right bill
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: with this concern that like they probably, the Chinese government
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: probably would tell ByteDance what to do if push came
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: to shove.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 47:19
  Speaker 8: So I think what you just explained to people, which
• 47:23
  Speaker 8: is that this is the risk, if push comes to shove,
• 47:27
  Speaker 8: ByteDance will do this. I mean, Most Americans weren't familiar
• 47:31
  Speaker 8: in the hours before the vote that TikTok was owned
• 47:35
  Speaker 8: by the Chinese.
• 47:36
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 47:37
  Speaker 8: Most Americans that day are trying to figure out how
• 47:39
  Speaker 8: they're going to pay for gas and pick up their
• 47:41
  Speaker 8: kid on time. And they're worried that their dad didn't
• 47:44
  Speaker 8: eat the food that they took over last week for him.
• 47:47
  Speaker 8: Like you got to do the work of democracy to
• 47:50
  Speaker 8: get to a result that Americans really buy into. And
• 47:54
  Speaker 8: so I do expect this to come. You know, I
• 47:57
  Speaker 8: think the Senate will either hopefully amend this. There might
• 48:00
  Speaker 8: be a different bill that comes to us. I think
• 48:02
  Speaker 8: we need to take these issues seriously. I also think
• 48:05
  Speaker 8: the people who say there are real issues with data
• 48:08
  Speaker 8: privacy and manipulation of information within the United States. And
• 48:12
  Speaker 8: we don't ever seem to want to regulate that or
• 48:17
  Speaker 8: talk about that. I think one doesn't excuse the other.
• 48:20
  Speaker 8: There are separate risks and separate problems with Chinese influence.
• 48:25
  Speaker 8: But this wasn't the right answer.
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: One of the things that's strange about it is so
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: much of this has been about what members of Congress
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: are hearing behind closed doors in sort of a classified setting,
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: which is in a democracy not really acceptable to like
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: sort of no, no, no, you have to trust us.
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: What we're seeing behind closed doors is very serious. Do
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: you think if the American people saw what members of
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: Congress are seeing behind closed doors about their concerns about
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: TikTok and privacy, do you think if the American people
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: saw what is classified, it would have a big impact
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: on sort of the public view of TikTok?
• 49:01
  Speaker 8: I think if Americans understood the risks better, yes. But
• 49:07
  Speaker 8: that isn't– it isn't as simple as you just– if
• 49:11
  Speaker 8: only you knew, right? I think this is not a
• 49:14
  Speaker 8: healthy way for representatives to engage with the public.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Especially when we're calling it a threat to democracy.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: So, I mean, we need to— Do democracy.
• 49:22
  Speaker 8: Americans not believing that their congressmembers are acting in their
• 49:25
  Speaker 8: best interest is also a threat to democracy. And so
• 49:28
  Speaker 8: I think the right thing to do is to start with,
• 49:31
  Speaker 8: you know, have a town hall. Talk with your constituents. Like,
• 49:35
  Speaker 8: here are some facts. ByteDance is owned by— it's a
• 49:38
  Speaker 8: Chinese company. It's not owned by the Chinese government, but
• 49:41
  Speaker 8: it's a Chinese company. Here's how the Chinese Communist Party
• 49:45
  Speaker 8: can influence Chinese companies. Here's the kind of information that,
• 49:49
  Speaker 8: I mean, a lot of people do not realize what
• 49:51
  Speaker 8: is being collected about them all of the time by
• 49:53
  Speaker 8: American companies even. And so I think it's not even
• 49:57
  Speaker 8: having to get to that classified point. I think it's
• 49:59
  Speaker 8: more fundamental than that. And I think it's also giving
• 50:01
  Speaker 8: Americans a hot second to to tell us what they think, right?
• 50:06
  Speaker 8: So we got, you know, we had calls kind of
• 50:07
  Speaker 8: coming in that day, but that doesn't give us time
• 50:10
  Speaker 8: to have a town hall, to talk to people, to
• 50:13
  Speaker 8: show them, to give them a chance to air their
• 50:15
  Speaker 8: concerns and grievances.
• 50:17
  Speaker 6: And so it was really.
• 50:20
  Speaker 8: There's been nothing in this Congress but kind of examples
• 50:23
  Speaker 8: of how not to do it. And I think, sadly,
• 50:25
  Speaker 8: this was another one, even if the concerns and the
• 50:29
  Speaker 8: need for action in this is very, very real.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: How many of your colleagues do you think could get
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: an unsigned PDF from their phone into a signed PDF
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: on their computer?
• 50:37
  Speaker 6: I mean, low.
• 50:39
  Speaker 5: Low.
• 50:40
  Speaker 8: I mean, we are not strong in the technology space,
• 50:46
  Speaker 8: I would say.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've seen the variance.
• 50:48
  Speaker 6: But I think we are capable of.
• 50:49
  Speaker 8: Understanding risk and the briefings that we get are high
• 50:53
  Speaker 8: quality and are good. But I think we just have
• 50:55
  Speaker 8: to give Americans some time and figure out how we're
• 50:59
  Speaker 8: going to communicate in a way that's convincing to them.
• 51:01
  Speaker 8: And what I heard on the floor, the.
• 51:04
  Speaker 6: Tic-tac-toe, tic-tac-toe, tic-tac.
• 51:06
  Speaker 8: I mean, that was not it. That wasn't really, I
• 51:10
  Speaker 8: don't think, respectful to where people are who are saying,
• 51:14
  Speaker 8: this is how I make my living. This is how
• 51:16
  Speaker 8: I find other people who share my expression of my
• 51:20
  Speaker 8: gender identity, for example.
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: Members of Congress use it.
• 51:23
  Speaker 6: I mean, my campaign has it.
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: Members of Congress use TikTok and then voted.
• 51:27
  Speaker 8: Well, so to be clear, we voted to ban it
• 51:29
  Speaker 8: already on government devices. So to the extent that we're
• 51:32
  Speaker 8: using it, we're using it in our campaign capacity on
• 51:34
  Speaker 8: non-government owned devices.
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: But nevertheless.
• 51:38
  Speaker 6: But nevertheless, it would have stopped all of that along
• 51:40
  Speaker 6: with everything else. And it wasn't a ban.
• 51:42
  Speaker 8: The choices were ban or sell, divest. And I think
• 51:47
  Speaker 8: the divest strategy would be a really good solution to this.
• 51:50
  Speaker 8: I think you got to give a little bit of
• 51:53
  Speaker 8: a runway and do a little bit of thinking.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: About like, Sort of a big transaction.
• 51:57
  Speaker 6: Who that we.
• 51:57
  Speaker 8: Trust might have like $ 500 billion sitting around that might
• 52:02
  Speaker 8: buy this.
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: All the best people have it.
• 52:04
  Speaker 6: And when I heard like that Jared Kushner.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 52:06
  Speaker 6: Oh, Steven Mnuchin.
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: Steven Mnuchin.
• 52:08
  Speaker 6: One of my faves.
• 52:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 52:09
  Speaker 6: Was going to like buy. I didn't feel like, oh, wow.
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: Oh, good. He gets the data.
• 52:13
  Speaker 6: From the CCP to Steven Mnuchin.
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: Former Trump Treasury Secretary. Great.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: Devil you know. You mentioned that President Biden has been
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: more sort of progressive and future oriented than a lot
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: of people expected. Obviously, he's facing an incredibly difficult reelection.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: Do you have any advice for Biden and Democrats in
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: general as they head into 24?
• 52:34
  Speaker 8: I mean, I think that President Biden is doing the
• 52:37
  Speaker 8: right things. I think he needs his congressional partners to
• 52:41
  Speaker 8: amplify them, right? So President Biden is really pushing us
• 52:44
  Speaker 8: to talk about what he's delivered on, to talk about
• 52:48
  Speaker 8: student loans, to talk about $ 35 insulin, to connect what
• 52:52
  Speaker 8: we're doing in Washington to what is happening in people's lives,
• 52:55
  Speaker 8: both what he has done, but also acknowledge where we
• 52:58
  Speaker 8: have not, where we have fallen short so far, right?
• 53:00
  Speaker 6: We know childcare is still hurting you.
• 53:02
  Speaker 8: Give me a second term and I'll take another stab
• 53:04
  Speaker 8: at that because you did a really good job the
• 53:06
  Speaker 8: first time. Congress gutted it, right? We know housing costs
• 53:09
  Speaker 8: are really affecting people. younger families and people and the
• 53:13
  Speaker 8: racial wealth gap is deepening because of that. Like in
• 53:16
  Speaker 8: a second term, housing is going to be a top priority.
• 53:19
  Speaker 8: I think he's pointing us in the right direction. I
• 53:21
  Speaker 8: think Congress needs to follow along and be on that
• 53:26
  Speaker 8: message with him. And I think, you know, the president's
• 53:29
  Speaker 8: doing a good job of kind of walking the line,
• 53:32
  Speaker 8: I think, between pointing out the harms of Trump, but
• 53:34
  Speaker 8: also offering a really positive strong vision for how our
• 53:39
  Speaker 8: country can be better if he has a second term.
• 53:42
  Speaker 8: And I think that is the right strategy because you're
• 53:46
  Speaker 8: only going to get, I mean, look, you're only going
• 53:48
  Speaker 8: to get so many people on Trump sucks. Now, look,
• 53:51
  Speaker 8: I won in 2018 on Trump sucks. That was my
• 53:55
  Speaker 8: sole message. It wasn't Katie Porter on her whiteboard. It
• 53:58
  Speaker 8: was just Trump sucks.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: We've been riding that horse here for a little while.
• 54:01
  Speaker 6: I was anybody, I'm well aware.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Keeps the lights on.
• 54:03
  Speaker 6: So I'm anybody other than, you know, that was the
• 54:05
  Speaker 6: whole thing, right?
• 54:07
  Speaker 8: That's not, I don't think, how I stayed elected in
• 54:09
  Speaker 8: a swing district. And I think some of my colleagues
• 54:12
  Speaker 8: who have struggled to stay elected, who are now unelected
• 54:14
  Speaker 8: in their swing districts, one of the reasons is that
• 54:18
  Speaker 8: once Trump was gone, people said, now what? And they said,
• 54:21
  Speaker 8: Trump sucks. And they said, yeah, but Trump's not in office.
• 54:24
  Speaker 8: So I think there's a risk to the Democratic Party
• 54:28
  Speaker 8: going forward if we don't have that wedding together of
• 54:32
  Speaker 8: Trump bad and And we are good.
• 54:36
  Speaker 6: And here's why.
• 54:37
  Speaker 8: If it's just Trump bad, then when Trump is gone,
• 54:40
  Speaker 8: how do we win in 2026? How do we win
• 54:43
  Speaker 8: in 2028? How do we win down ballot where maybe
• 54:48
  Speaker 8: things aren't even partisan, but issues still matter to people?
• 54:51
  Speaker 8: And so I think that is, I think the president's
• 54:53
  Speaker 8: actually doing a strong job with this. I think that
• 54:57
  Speaker 8: Congress needs to take its cue from President Biden on this.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: Have you given any thought to what's next for you?
• 55:03
  Speaker 8: Um, so no, I have been enjoying getting up in
• 55:08
  Speaker 8: the morning and not opening up my phone and learning
• 55:12
  Speaker 8: about spending against me. That's been like a real, I mean,
• 55:16
  Speaker 8: I got up in the morning and I was like,
• 55:17
  Speaker 8: nobody spent any money attacking you.
• 55:20
  Speaker 6: Tagging me is like so great.
• 55:22
  Speaker 8: So I've been thinking a little bit about what I
• 55:24
  Speaker 8: want to keep working on in my remaining time in Congress.
• 55:26
  Speaker 6: So I just talked to you about town halls.
• 55:27
  Speaker 8: I've been actually thinking about do I want to try
• 55:29
  Speaker 8: to do a town hall on this TikTok issue and
• 55:32
  Speaker 8: to try to help educate people a little bit about
• 55:35
  Speaker 8: why there is a real problem here. I might continue
• 55:39
  Speaker 8: to work a lot on issues of money in politics,
• 55:42
  Speaker 8: on transparency of good government. I have a whole bunch
• 55:45
  Speaker 8: of bills on that. And they didn't move under the
• 55:48
  Speaker 8: Democratic Congress. Things like banning congressional stock trading didn't move
• 55:52
  Speaker 8: under the Democratic Congress. I think there's an opportunity maybe
• 55:55
  Speaker 8: to move them under the Republican Congress. And so I'm
• 55:58
  Speaker 8: going to continue to try to find bipartisan partners to
• 56:01
  Speaker 8: do those things.
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: Accountability partners?
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Is Speaker Johnson.
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: Off-putting and weird as he seems. The vibe is a
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: neighbor that's nice to you but looks into your windows
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: with binoculars from the business.
• 56:14
  Speaker 8: I honestly have had very little interaction with him. So
• 56:18
  Speaker 8: I have a lot of interaction with my Republican colleagues generally.
• 56:22
  Speaker 8: But this man wasn't like one that you would have
• 56:25
  Speaker 8: sought out before now. It was like that guy. I
• 56:29
  Speaker 8: think there were people Googling frantically trying to figure out
• 56:31
  Speaker 8: who he was when he was being.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Including Republicans in the House, probably.
• 56:36
  Speaker 6: Right. I mean, I think literally Republicans were like, Mike Johnson?
• 56:40
  Speaker 6: Is there another Johnson here?
• 56:41
  Speaker 8: Like, where's this guy from again? I mean, so I
• 56:44
  Speaker 8: do think that there are Republicans, though, who are. I mean,
• 56:47
  Speaker 8: Ken Buck, you know, exiting Congress, like Representative Buck has
• 56:51
  Speaker 8: been terrific on banning stock trading.
• 56:53
  Speaker 6: Like he's serious about these issues.
• 56:56
  Speaker 8: And so I think post this whole Hunter Biden debacle,
• 57:00
  Speaker 8: my real hope is that the oversight committee will do
• 57:03
  Speaker 8: some real work on.
• 57:05
  Speaker 6: Some of these issues.
• 57:06
  Speaker 8: Because look, I think the thing to take away from
• 57:07
  Speaker 8: the Hunter Biden sort of nonsense is.
• 57:11
  Speaker 6: That he did nothing wrong. There's no evidence.
• 57:15
  Speaker 8: Why do so many Americans think that something like that
• 57:19
  Speaker 8: could have happened? And that's because we don't have strong
• 57:22
  Speaker 8: enough guardrails in our democracy to stop influence peddling. We
• 57:25
  Speaker 8: don't have strong enough guardrails in our democracies that people
• 57:28
  Speaker 8: trust their representatives. That's something that I think Democrats should
• 57:32
  Speaker 8: take from this thing. It's not just that Joe Biden
• 57:36
  Speaker 8: didn't do anything wrong. True, Joe Biden did nothing wrong.
• 57:38
  Speaker 8: That's the most important fact. But then there's a strategy question.
• 57:40
  Speaker 6: What do you then do with that?
• 57:42
  Speaker 8: I think the lesson is, boy, a lot of people
• 57:44
  Speaker 8: are quick to believe any inference that Congress is not
• 57:49
  Speaker 8: on the straight and narrow.
• 57:51
  Speaker 6: How do we diminish that that in the public's mind?
• 57:54
  Speaker 8: And I think the answer is banning congressional stock trading,
• 57:57
  Speaker 8: beginning to move. I have legislation where I disclose every
• 58:01
  Speaker 8: meeting that I public meet, every meeting that I take.
• 58:03
  Speaker 8: So if you come to my office, you want to
• 58:04
  Speaker 8: meet with me, I disclose that on my website every month.
• 58:07
  Speaker 8: People can see who I'm spending my time with. So
• 58:10
  Speaker 8: when they say, you're not listening to so-and-so, I'm like,
• 58:13
  Speaker 8: here's the meetings I took, right? So I think there's
• 58:16
  Speaker 8: a lot we could do to shore up confidence in government.
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: You know what you should do at Just Realized? You
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: should run for governor. Have you thought about that? That'd
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: be awesome.
• 58:25
  Speaker 8: I really literally am just thinking about whether we're going
• 58:27
  Speaker 8: to fund the government.
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: Not ruling it out.
• 58:29
  Speaker 6: Not ruling it out.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's like a perennial question. Actually, it's like
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: a bi-weekly question.
• 58:35
  Speaker 6: What's up with that? I mean, I literally was like,
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: do we have the bill text? Do we have the
• 58:41
  Speaker 6: bill text?
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: It sounds like you're going to miss Congress a lot.
• 58:44
  Speaker 6: Well, look, I mean, I said this in the book
• 58:47
  Speaker 6: that I wrote.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: Brag.
• 58:51
  Speaker 8: The work is amazing, amazing to get to learn about things,
• 58:57
  Speaker 8: to help hear from Americans, to see corners of your
• 59:01
  Speaker 8: community you've never seen before. Like, wow, to have amazing,
• 59:06
  Speaker 8: talented young people as staffers helping you and teaching you
• 59:09
  Speaker 8: a and working alongside you, it's amazing.
• 59:11
  Speaker 6: The work is amazing. The job?
• 59:14
  Speaker 8: Like if you went to work and your cubicle was
• 59:16
  Speaker 8: next to Marjorie Taylor Greene.
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: Would you polish your resume?
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 59:20
  Speaker 8: So the commute, 3,000 miles each way, like the pay,
• 59:25
  Speaker 8: some of these issues are really challenging for people. And
• 59:28
  Speaker 8: so I would say I will miss the work was fabulous.
• 59:33
  Speaker 8: But look, I went to Congress. to work on having
• 59:36
  Speaker 8: a more fair economy. When I was a consumer protection professor,
• 59:40
  Speaker 8: that's what I did. I wrote articles and I exposed
• 59:44
  Speaker 8: the cheating that banks were doing when they were foreclosing
• 59:46
  Speaker 8: on people's homes wrongfully. When I went to Congress, I
• 59:49
  Speaker 8: exposed the cheating that Wells Fargo was doing, the fact
• 59:54
  Speaker 8: that the CEO of a bank doesn't pay his tellers
• 59:56
  Speaker 8: enough to live and hasn't thought about that apparently ever.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 8: I'm going to keep doing that work. I want to
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 8: make sure that my kids and everyone's kids have an
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 8: amazing America with a really great economy that provides opportunities
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 8: for people and mobility and stability. Like, that's the project.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 8: Congress was where I did the project, but it wasn't
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 8: the project.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: Well, very glad you're still going to be doing that work.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: Katie Porter, thank you so much for stopping by. Come
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: back anytime.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: All right. Thanks, Katie Porter, for joining today. And we'll
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: have another pod for you on Wednesday. If you want
• 1:00:38
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• 1:00:40
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• 1:00:44
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• 1:01:00
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