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Ken Rosenthal on Braves flop, White Sox ownership succession plan · Foul Territory

0:00
Speaker 1: Jerry Reinstorp has had an amazing run in two sports
0:03
Speaker 1: as an owner, but it's reasonable to say that his
0:07
Speaker 1: time has come.
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Speaker 2: That's at the inside Scoop with FT senior insider Ken Rosenthal. Ken,
0:19
Speaker 2: good to see you, and I'd like to start with
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Speaker 2: what I think is huge news. I just don't know
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Speaker 2: when it's going to be huge. What was your reaction
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Speaker 2: to what the Chicago White Sox said yesterday about Justin Ishbia,
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Speaker 2: who's already a minority owner of the team, and eventually
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Speaker 2: we'll take over the team as soon as a few
0:38
Speaker 2: years from now, as late as a decade from now.
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Speaker 1: First off, Scott, I'm going to blow the athletics horn
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Speaker 1: a little bit. This was reported by John Greenberg of
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Speaker 1: The Athletic in late February. At the time, the White
0:51
Speaker 1: Sox denied Ishbia would have a path to control. Guess
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Speaker 1: what he has a path to control, and that's what
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Speaker 1: we reported then their denials look at them any number
1:01
Speaker 1: of ways, but they were not truthful in the end.
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Speaker 1: As for the White Sox, it's good news even short term,
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Speaker 1: because it seems like a capital infusion money coming into
1:11
Speaker 1: the team will be part of this equation and that
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Speaker 1: never hurts, but it could be some time still before
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Speaker 1: Jerry Reinsdorf yields control. He doesn't want to yield control.
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Speaker 1: It's pretty obvious. That's why he gave us the statement
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Speaker 1: he did in February. We're not giving up control. But
1:27
Speaker 1: that day is coming. And Jerry is an older guy
1:29
Speaker 1: and now I believe eighty nine years old, and he's
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Speaker 1: still kicking God bless him. But at some point this
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Speaker 1: transfer will take place. It's spelled out in the agreement,
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Speaker 1: and of course we'll see how this plays out.
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Speaker 3: It's because a partial owner has been buying up small
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Speaker 3: pieces of ownership for a little while of other small
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Speaker 3: minority owners of the White Sox. Correct.
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Speaker 1: I believe that is correct.
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Speaker 3: Yes, Eric, is there a chance within this time because
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Speaker 3: of this agreement whatever you want to call it a
2:00
Speaker 3: agreement or what they've talked about, that he has more
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Speaker 3: of a say in the direction of the organization, even
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Speaker 3: though Jerry is still the head honcho and the one
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Speaker 3: the forward facing. Does it mean he has more of
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Speaker 3: a say because he is still technically an owner.
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Speaker 1: He is, Yes, and I would expect that he would
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Speaker 1: be included in conversations more than he was in his
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Speaker 1: previous identity as an owner there as a minority owner.
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Speaker 1: Now he is a bigger minority owner with this path
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Speaker 1: to control. And Jerry Reinsdorff still olds the ultimate hammer,
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Speaker 1: of course, and he will until he is no longer
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Speaker 1: the owner of this team. But I would imagine Ishbiel
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Speaker 1: will at least be included in certain conversations, maybe not all,
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Speaker 1: but certain conversations about the direction of the team going forward.
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Speaker 1: I'm speculating here, but my guess is, rather than involve
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Speaker 1: him in every trade discussion of free agent discussion, you
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Speaker 1: would talk to him about maybe payroll going to X,
3:00
Speaker 1: Y and then Z in a three year span, something
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Speaker 1: along those lines. And again I'm speculating. I don't know
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Speaker 1: for sure, but it would seem to me that would
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Speaker 1: be a logical thing to do with a guy who
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Speaker 1: ultimately will one day own the team.
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Speaker 2: Outright, Ken, I'm gonna ask you to put your column
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Speaker 2: hat on for a moment. It is currently twenty twenty five,
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Speaker 2: Justini Shpia does not have the full power to take
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Speaker 2: over the team with his own choice until twenty thirty four.
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Speaker 2: It could happen before that twenty twenty nine to twenty
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Speaker 2: thirty three, but it might not be for almost a decade.
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Speaker 2: How should White Sox fans feel about this news?
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Speaker 1: They should feel encouraged that a transition eventually will take
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Speaker 1: place and somewhat disappointed that it won't take place sooner.
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Speaker 1: And frankly, Jerry Reinsdorf has had an amazing run in
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Speaker 1: two sports as an owner, but it's reasonable to say
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Speaker 1: that his time has come and it would be better
3:58
Speaker 1: to have new leadership with the White Sox. Grit Droolie
4:02
Speaker 1: and I wrote a story to that effect essentially last year,
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Speaker 1: and nothing really has changed. They're on a good path
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Speaker 1: here and they're doing some good things. They bring Kyle
4:11
Speaker 1: Teal up today, I guess, and the crochet trade looks
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Speaker 1: like it was good. And some of the things going
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Speaker 1: on in their minor leagues and their rotation that they
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Speaker 1: built just this year has turned out okay. But they've
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Speaker 1: got a long way to go, and ultimately they have
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Speaker 1: not had success with Rhinsdorf in quite some time. So yes,
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Speaker 1: it's time for a change. And if I were a
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Speaker 1: White Sox fan, I would say I just wish it
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Speaker 1: was sooner.
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Speaker 3: I brought this up yesterday. Tell me if I'm right
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Speaker 3: arm wrong, Jerry Reinsdorf has been opposed or has been so,
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Speaker 3: he's been the proponent, one of the loudest proponents of
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Speaker 3: the salary cap and correct now with the new CBA
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Speaker 3: coming up, if he loses out on that, could we
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Speaker 3: see this sale move faster? Because do you feel like
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Speaker 3: it's like he's almost like a rogue owner that in
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Speaker 3: this last I got nothing to lose, I'm going for it,
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Speaker 3: I'm leaving my mark type of moment, or am I
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Speaker 3: totally overthinking that?
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Speaker 1: You're not overthinking the fact that he has been a
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Speaker 1: hawk in labor that goes back to ninety five and
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Speaker 1: probably even before that. At the same time, the owners,
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Speaker 1: from what I can gather so far, with their desire
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Speaker 1: for a cap, are fairly unified. I don't know that
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Speaker 1: they're completely unified, and I don't know that small market
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Speaker 1: owners want a salary floor which would force them to
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Speaker 1: spend a minimum, say one hundred million dollars, which they're
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Speaker 1: not doing now. But it's not like Reinsdorf is out
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Speaker 1: there all alone wanting a cap at this point. There
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Speaker 1: are other owners talking on and off the record to
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Speaker 1: reporters about that and to their employees as well. So
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Speaker 1: I don't know that he would have the same influence
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Speaker 1: that he once did. I don't believe he does have
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Speaker 1: the same influence he once did with Bud Selig, who
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Speaker 1: was his good friend. So I don't see what happens
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Speaker 1: in twenty six after the CBA expires in that December
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Speaker 1: affecting what he's going to do here. I may be
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Speaker 1: wrong about that. And maybe if there's a lockout, maybe
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Speaker 1: if this sport is dumb enough to shut down for
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Speaker 1: a year, Reinsdorf says, Okay, let's go, let's do this sooner.
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Speaker 1: But at the same time, let's hope that doesn't happen.
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Speaker 1: There is no reason it should happen, and let's just
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Speaker 1: hope for peace and harmony going forward. I know it's
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Speaker 1: a distant hope. I know it's a faint hope because
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Speaker 1: we know how these sides are going to act when
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Speaker 1: the CBA discussions begin. But again, to answer your question, Eric,
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Speaker 1: I don't really see it having a major impact on
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Speaker 1: what Reinstorff ultimately decides to do.
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Speaker 4: Switching gears here a little bit. Talking about the Braves, man,
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Speaker 4: what a crazy year so far for them? Not a
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Speaker 4: good one. As we know, people are talking about hitting
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Speaker 4: rock bottom. I want to hear your thoughts. Do you
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Speaker 4: think they can make it out of the bottom here
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Speaker 4: and start making an impact on the league.
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Speaker 1: I do think that can happen, and I wrote as
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Speaker 1: much today Todd, using the examples of the Mets and
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Speaker 1: Astros from last year, who had very comparable records on
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Speaker 1: this same date as the Braves do right now. And
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Speaker 1: I also use the example of the twenty twenty one Braves,
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Speaker 1: who were not much different in their own right on
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Speaker 1: June fifth or sixth, or whatever it is. But at
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Speaker 1: some point, why you can cite those examples like I did,
7:19
Speaker 1: you got to play better. And they have not really
7:21
Speaker 1: played well for quite a stretch here. And yes they
7:26
Speaker 1: were zero to seven, they climbed out of it, but
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Speaker 1: really they were five hundred teams. Since then, there's still
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Speaker 1: seven games under five hundred, and their bullpen issues are pronounced,
7:34
Speaker 1: especially at the back end with Iglesias. I don't know
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Speaker 1: how they're going to fix that necessarily. And their offense
7:40
Speaker 1: has been a major disappointment. Let's face it, two years
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Speaker 1: ago this was a record setting offense. I know that
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Speaker 1: was an outlier. I know that was unlikely ever to
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Speaker 1: be repeated. But to see Michael Harris and Azzi Alby's
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Speaker 1: not performing the way they should, to see Nick Allen
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Speaker 1: doing what he was expected to do with short stuff,
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Speaker 1: but it amounts to another hole in the lineup. It's
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Speaker 1: just not getting it done. Now. Yesterday they get it done.
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Speaker 1: They score ten and then they had the bullpen melt
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Speaker 1: down in the night, denning a historic bullpen melt down.
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Speaker 1: So it was Tom Glavin who said this might be
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Speaker 1: rock bottom. He was their announcer, of course, the Hall
8:13
Speaker 1: of Fame pitcher with the Braves. But I'm not convinced
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Speaker 1: it is. At the same time, at some point you
8:20
Speaker 1: gotta get going, and it's not too late. And as
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Speaker 1: I wrote, long season, expanded playoff format, it is endlessly forgiven.
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Speaker 1: Teams can tank for a couple of months, and I
8:30
Speaker 1: mean play poorly, not tank like the Marlins do. It
8:33
Speaker 1: can happen that way, but again you have to see
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Speaker 1: some signs of hope. And I will say last year,
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Speaker 1: at this time, we weren't talking about the Mets and
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Speaker 1: Astros being so great. The Mets were just starting to
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Speaker 1: come out of it. The Astros were still two weeks
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Speaker 1: away from starting to play better. So this is not
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Speaker 1: that unusual. But at the same time, again, at some
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Speaker 1: point you have to turn it on, and they have
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Speaker 1: yet to do that really for a sustained stretch.
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Speaker 4: And then I want to get into coaching wise, So
9:02
Speaker 4: Brian Snicker, is he on the hot seat right now?
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Speaker 4: Is there a a you know, it's going to be
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Speaker 4: a tough decision I're gonna have to make if they
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Speaker 4: don't start winning here right or wrong.
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Speaker 1: I don't expect that they will fire him no matter
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Speaker 1: any regardless of what happens. I don't expect him to
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Speaker 1: get fired. And he's accomplished too much. They've made the
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Speaker 1: postseason seven straight years, the first six of those that
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Speaker 1: were division titles. He's been in the organization forty nine years.
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Speaker 1: I know fans don't want to hear there's they're screaming
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Speaker 1: their heads off for his head, for Anthropolis's head, But
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Speaker 1: I just don't expect they're going to make a change
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Speaker 1: unless for some reason he decides to step down. And
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Speaker 1: I don't see Brian Sniker quitting on a season. So
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Speaker 1: the question then becomes, Okay, is this it for him
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Speaker 1: that I can see? I can see after this year,
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Speaker 1: and he's talked about possibly doing this, stepping down, taking
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Speaker 1: another role in the organization, maybe becoming some kind of
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Speaker 1: emeritus person. But while Snicker is not blameless here, as
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Speaker 1: I wrote today, and there were questions yesterday all the
10:00
Speaker 1: time with all managers, really, but there are other things
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Speaker 1: going on with this team performance wise that simply have
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Speaker 1: to change and that are not on him. I'm sorry.
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Speaker 1: It's not on him that Michael Harris has a five
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Speaker 1: eighty ops or that Azzi Albi's has a six point fifty.
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Speaker 1: That's not him. And when Iglesias doesn't have it together,
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Speaker 1: that's not really on him either. Now, the mood of
10:21
Speaker 1: a club, the environment around the club, sure a manager
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Speaker 1: is responsible for that. They aren't the same team that
10:27
Speaker 1: they've been. They've had changes over the last few years.
10:30
Speaker 1: Freddie left, Swanson left, Freed left. It's a different group
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Speaker 1: and it's his job to get the best out of
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Speaker 1: that group. Yes, but I don't know that you can
10:39
Speaker 1: pin this entirely on Brian Stinker. It's easy. It's what
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Speaker 1: people like to do on social media. Him and thought
10:44
Speaker 1: Pulis let them all go, right, But when we're talking
10:49
Speaker 1: about that kind of thing, it's a tough thing to
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Speaker 1: do to a guy of that stature right now. It's
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Speaker 1: something that I will say this to a fan out there.
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Speaker 1: If you're in an organization forty nine year and you
11:00
Speaker 1: were as accomplished as Brian Sticker and people were talking
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Speaker 1: about firing you because your team's underperforming, how would you
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Speaker 1: feel about that? That's how I would put it.
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Speaker 3: Yep, And they've been the seventh straight playoffs. And another
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Speaker 3: thing you wrote in your article that just popped out
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Speaker 3: to me, comfort in contracts. It's never a side that
11:18
Speaker 3: I even looked at, but you kind of mentioned it.
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Speaker 3: Have these players been become comfortable because the contracts they've
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Speaker 3: given out?
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Speaker 1: The way I phrased it was is a too comfortable
11:31
Speaker 1: an environment with so many guys signed to an extension
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Speaker 1: to extensions. And I don't know the answer to that,
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Speaker 1: but it's a fair question and it will be continuing
11:41
Speaker 1: to be a fair question if this does not turn around.
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Speaker 1: Alexandthop was made deals that most of the industry thought
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Speaker 1: were really well executed and kind of brilliant getting guys
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Speaker 1: locked up early, getting them long term. The flip side
11:54
Speaker 1: of that is that those deals don't always work out,
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Speaker 1: and the Michael Harris one is a question one right now,
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Speaker 1: even Spencer Streider until he gets back to where he was,
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Speaker 1: you wonder why they did that so soon. So it's
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Speaker 1: a question that I have that people have raised to
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Speaker 1: me at times. I'm not ready to say yet, as
12:14
Speaker 1: I said in the article, that yeah, this is the problem,
12:17
Speaker 1: or I'm not ready to say that it's Freddie and
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Speaker 1: Freed and Swanson leaving that is the problem. But maybe
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Speaker 1: all of these things together have just created a different
12:26
Speaker 1: culture around the team, a different kind of environment, and
12:29
Speaker 1: maybe it's not the best environment. Maybe they need to
12:31
Speaker 1: kick in the rear a little bit in some fashion.
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Speaker 2: Ken last question and before that, a quick statement, any
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Speaker 2: Braves fan that has a problem with the work of
12:41
Speaker 2: alex Anthopolis over the past five years or so, I
12:45
Speaker 2: think you got to look in the mirror, and also
12:47
Speaker 2: you got to look at some other organizations. So little psychotic.
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Speaker 2: But anyway, if this team somehow does become a seller
12:55
Speaker 2: at the trade deadline, I'm trying to look through who's
12:58
Speaker 2: not locked up for a while and think Marcela Zuna
13:02
Speaker 2: as an impact. Bat Rice el Iglesias does have some
13:05
Speaker 2: decent peripheral numbers, even though obviously it's giving up a
13:08
Speaker 2: bunch of homers, and there's definitely some highs and lows there.
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Speaker 2: But could he help a team even in a seventh
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Speaker 2: or eighth inning. Absolutely. I don't know if there's anything
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Speaker 2: else you see from that team that stands out.
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Speaker 1: Chrisale if you wanted to do it. But I don't
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Speaker 1: believe the Braves are going to sell. And for them
13:23
Speaker 1: to sell, remember, they're going to have to fall out
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Speaker 1: of it. They're going to have to be buried. And
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Speaker 1: even in a league as strong as the National League
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Speaker 1: is this season, it's hard to be buried in this
13:32
Speaker 1: format with three wild cards. If you're around five hundred,
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Speaker 1: you've got a chance. Now they're not at five hundred
13:38
Speaker 1: right now, and maybe instead of seven under at the deadline,
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Speaker 1: they're seventeen under, and that's a different story. Then they're buried.
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Speaker 1: But if they're three under two under, well they were
13:47
Speaker 1: kind of like that in twenty one and look what
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Speaker 1: happened now. It took a lot of trades to get
13:52
Speaker 1: them to where they needed to be. But I just
13:56
Speaker 1: don't see them punting a season like that, and I
13:58
Speaker 1: don't frankly see the Reds doing it either. Another team
14:01
Speaker 1: that people are talking about as sellers. Maybe they trade
14:04
Speaker 1: Duran if they get the right deal to open the
14:07
Speaker 1: spot for Anthony at some point, maybe, but I don't
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Speaker 1: see them outright selling. It's just not the way they're built.
14:14
Speaker 1: And they want to win this year. That's what they're
14:17
Speaker 1: trying to do. They don't want another disappointing season. So
14:21
Speaker 1: keep in mind, we look at these things and oh,
14:24
Speaker 1: this team's playing badly, that team's playing valley. They're going
14:27
Speaker 1: to sell. First of all, there's a long way to
14:29
Speaker 1: go to the deadline. Second of all, keep in mind
14:31
Speaker 1: what the team's intentions were at the start of the season.
14:34
Speaker 1: They're not going to give up that easily. Not saying
14:36
Speaker 1: it won't happen, but to say it's going to happen
14:39
Speaker 1: on June sixth is a little premature.
14:42
Speaker 2: And twenty twenty one. By the way, those brilliant trades
14:44
Speaker 2: were made by.
14:46
Speaker 1: Alex Yeah, exactly. You can question their off season last year.
14:52
Speaker 1: They're off season. They let a lot of people go,
14:55
Speaker 1: They created payroll flexibility and really profars their only big move,
14:58
Speaker 1: and of course that is not worked out great. They
15:01
Speaker 1: didn't really address the bullpen. There weren't many ways other
15:04
Speaker 1: ways to address the offense, so you can question that
15:07
Speaker 1: it wasn't a great offseason. I don't think even on
15:09
Speaker 1: Thoughtless would say that, but body of work. Hello, you're
15:13
Speaker 1: absolutely right, Scott. Why don't you look at some other teams,
15:16
Speaker 1: see how they're doing, and see who is running that
15:19
Speaker 1: show or their shows, and then get back to us.
15:22
Speaker 2: I mean this as a compliment. I said it on
15:24
Speaker 2: radio show the other day in Atlanta, Braise, fans are spoiled.
15:27
Speaker 2: That's a good thing. You want to be spoiled as
15:29
Speaker 2: a fan. Some fans took that the wrong way. I'm like, okay,
15:32
Speaker 2: try to be many other teams. Ken, thank you. We'll
15:38
Speaker 2: hear you on Saturday on Fox Red Sox looking forward
15:42
Speaker 2: to it, and we'll see you on Monday for fair
15:45
Speaker 2: Thanks Scott. Territory just came out obviously yesterday with a
15:49
Speaker 2: fresh episode with Alana and Ken answering questions too, so
15:53
Speaker 2: make sure you check that out. Ken went over the
15:55
Speaker 2: as situation, the bullpen, the ballpark, the whole deal, and
15:58
Speaker 2: then you'll hear him again on Monday. If you have
16:01
Speaker 2: questions for Ken, by the way, Chap ECC is also
16:03
Speaker 2: a good spot to ask them, and our trustee producer
16:06
Speaker 2: will scoop them up for you,