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When Caregiving Becomes a Sacred Goodbye · Groove with Portia

0:06
Speaker 1: Welcome to Group Porsche, the podcast that uncovers the hidden
0:09
Speaker 1: treasures within grief. I'm your host, Porsche the Producer, and
0:13
Speaker 1: I'm inviting you to join me on a transformative journey
0:15
Speaker 1: where we were exchange laughter, of course the best medicine
0:18
Speaker 1: of them all, reflect on cherish memories, Remember that time
0:21
Speaker 1: that the little boy grabbed my hand instead of his
0:23
Speaker 1: mother's at the amusement park yikes, And of course, discover
0:26
Speaker 1: gratitude while navigating one of life's hardest challenges lost. So
0:31
Speaker 1: get ready to gree with me, Porsche the Producer, let's
0:35
Speaker 1: dive in. Hello everybody, and welcome back to Groog with Porsche.
0:46
Speaker 1: I am your host, Porsche Booker and is always don't
0:49
Speaker 1: forget to like, share and subscribe to keep up with
0:52
Speaker 1: all things grew with Porsche. One of the things many
0:55
Speaker 1: you may not know about me is that I absolutely
0:57
Speaker 1: love documentaries. There's something unique about the type of storytelling
1:01
Speaker 1: that goes into producing a documentary film. And recently I
1:04
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to watch Turning Blue, which was produced
1:08
Speaker 1: by Dana and Chris. And let me say something about
1:11
Speaker 1: this documentary really quick. We often think about documentaries that
1:15
Speaker 1: portray grief end of Life as just that right, dark,
1:19
Speaker 1: gloomy doom. But one thing I can say about this
1:22
Speaker 1: film is that there was love. That was the premise
1:25
Speaker 1: and sole message within this film. So today I have
1:29
Speaker 1: the opportunity of being joined by the directors of the film.
1:32
Speaker 1: So welcome Chris and Dana to group. Porsche, How are
1:35
Speaker 1: you today?
1:36
Speaker 2: Great? Thank you for having.
1:39
Speaker 1: So, Dana and Chris. Before we jump into the film itself,
1:43
Speaker 1: because I've watched it twice and I noticed several themes
1:48
Speaker 1: outside of what I mentioned about love. There's caregiving involved.
1:52
Speaker 1: There's also that walk of the end of life journey,
1:56
Speaker 1: the wrestling with guilt, wrestling with do I want support
2:00
Speaker 1: at this last moment of my loved one's life. And
2:03
Speaker 1: I'm curious, Danner, for you when we when you think
2:06
Speaker 1: about your mom during the production of the film, and
2:10
Speaker 1: obviously you had Kathy Chaffont player mom.
2:12
Speaker 2: I'm curious for.
2:13
Speaker 1: Our audience, what do you want people to remember about
2:17
Speaker 1: your mom outside of the film.
2:20
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that's such a good question. Yeah, you know Carol,
2:26
Speaker 2: my mom, Carol, she she was such a courageous woman.
2:31
Speaker 2: And I know Portia, you and I have had these
2:32
Speaker 2: conversations about our moms, and so you know, it hits
2:35
Speaker 2: really home for both of us. You know, I cared
2:39
Speaker 2: for her full time. We cared for her. Chris helped
2:41
Speaker 2: to make all the money so I could stay home
2:44
Speaker 2: and care for her full time for about three years.
2:47
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, my mom isn't just those
2:50
Speaker 2: last three years, right, My mom is this amazing woman
2:53
Speaker 2: throughout her entire life. But but when she was transitioning,
2:58
Speaker 2: even when she was just diagnosed initially, and then she
3:01
Speaker 2: was still working and you know, staying vibrant before she
3:04
Speaker 2: ended up having to slow down, there wasn't a moment
3:06
Speaker 2: where she didn't attach or approach it, excuse me, with courage,
3:12
Speaker 2: you know, and sort of this sort of courage and
3:14
Speaker 2: this hopeful sense of just being somebody who was still
3:19
Speaker 2: my mom and still somebody in the community, and still
3:21
Speaker 2: somebody who wanted to care about people. She never felt
3:25
Speaker 2: sorry for herself. She never complained, you know, and in fact,
3:31
Speaker 2: we have this joke about her where you know, she would,
3:34
Speaker 2: you know, care just be don't worry about me. I'll
3:36
Speaker 2: just sit in the corner, you know, I don't need
3:37
Speaker 2: any water or any food, just whatever. But she never
3:41
Speaker 2: ever complained and I think she was, in a weird way,
3:45
Speaker 2: more worried about us than she was about herself. And
3:48
Speaker 2: that was just the self nature of her, which made
3:52
Speaker 2: it so easy to care for her, you know, because
3:55
Speaker 2: all you want to do then is just to love
3:57
Speaker 2: on her as hard as you can and to make
3:59
Speaker 2: things as easy as you can. But that was her,
4:02
Speaker 2: you know, she was courageous. She was also an incredibly
4:06
Speaker 2: adventurous woman. You know, she moved to New York when
4:10
Speaker 2: she was like eighteen or nineteen, I think, from Nebraska.
4:13
Speaker 2: She was a farm girl from Nebraska that moved to
4:15
Speaker 2: New York City and started a whole new life. And
4:19
Speaker 2: so she was just this force of nature. And I'm very,
4:23
Speaker 2: very gifted to have been her daughter.
4:25
Speaker 1: So wow, I love the you brought up about how
4:29
Speaker 1: you both have this joke about your mom, and I
4:31
Speaker 1: could tell that in the film that you captured some
4:35
Speaker 1: of her humor. When it was her birthday and she
4:39
Speaker 1: brought up about how you almost blew her up right like,
4:43
Speaker 1: you know, and even at the when the caregiver came
4:47
Speaker 1: and she offered her some of the vanilla cream cake
4:50
Speaker 1: right right, well.
4:51
Speaker 2: And if you don't mind not just jump in. It's
4:53
Speaker 2: so funny because you know, Kathy's Chaffon is one of
4:56
Speaker 2: the greatest actresses of all time and she she actually
5:00
Speaker 2: met my mom years ago in La so it was
5:02
Speaker 2: very special that she got to play her. And that
5:06
Speaker 2: was a true story about the blowing up. My mom
5:09
Speaker 2: actually said that because she was on oxygen, right, So
5:12
Speaker 2: that's what you're worried about, right, And we ended up
5:15
Speaker 2: when when she first got sick and first started going
5:17
Speaker 2: on oxygen, none of us knew what we were doing.
5:19
Speaker 2: It was all new to us. And I remember her
5:21
Speaker 2: first birthday and we were like, oh my gosh, what
5:26
Speaker 2: are we doing. You know. Mom's like, well, you almost
5:28
Speaker 2: pull me up. And so like when we were writing
5:30
Speaker 2: the script, I was like, I have to put that
5:32
Speaker 2: in there because it was actually we all panicked, but
5:34
Speaker 2: we laughed about it afterwards. Luckily it worked out okay.
5:37
Speaker 2: So yes, and Kathy being Kathy Shelfon and being just
5:41
Speaker 2: this extraordinary talent, you know, an artist, she was able
5:45
Speaker 2: to turn that and just make it such a comedic nugget.
5:48
Speaker 2: It was very special.
5:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can relate to that, Dana and Chris because
5:53
Speaker 1: my mom was also on oxygen and we had one
5:57
Speaker 1: time a barbecue at our house. And let's just say
6:01
Speaker 1: that my aunt wasn't paying attention when she was bringing
6:05
Speaker 1: out the lighter fluid, so we almost had an accidental
6:11
Speaker 1: Fourth of July at my house in the middle of June.
6:15
Speaker 1: So I can relate to you there, Dan and Chris,
6:19
Speaker 1: let's talk about the film. One of the things that
6:22
Speaker 1: I noticed in the very beginning through the entire film
6:26
Speaker 1: and even to the end, was the darkness to set
6:30
Speaker 1: the tone of the duality of life. Right, you're depicting
6:35
Speaker 1: your mom in kind of her final moments with you,
6:41
Speaker 1: and also highlighting certain pieces as in the birthday, the
6:45
Speaker 1: vanilla creame the caregiver coming by. I'm curious. Can both
6:49
Speaker 1: of you share what the writing process was like to
6:54
Speaker 1: really condense so many different memories into something so short
7:00
Speaker 1: an impactful.
7:01
Speaker 3: Do you want to take that?
7:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think, well, I mean the script
7:09
Speaker 2: really came out and I think maybe you int portion.
7:13
Speaker 2: Maybe we've talked about this when mom passed away. She
7:15
Speaker 2: passed away five days after we got We brought her
7:18
Speaker 2: here to Cleveland and she passed it passed away five
7:21
Speaker 2: days later. And though and I'm sure you and I've
7:24
Speaker 2: talked about this, I mean I was waiting for this, right,
7:27
Speaker 2: I was preparing for this. The nurses are preparing me.
7:30
Speaker 2: I was giving morphine like there was a whole thing.
7:32
Speaker 2: I knew we were headed insurrection, but when it happened,
7:35
Speaker 2: you'd think I would be ready for it, and I
7:37
Speaker 2: wasn't even a little bit ready for it. Like I
7:39
Speaker 2: was destroyed. And I think, you're so busy caregiving, right,
7:44
Speaker 2: Like you're in life or death every day. All you
7:47
Speaker 2: can do is think about getting to the next point, right,
7:50
Speaker 2: And so I wasn't thinking too far ahead. I was
7:52
Speaker 2: just like, keep her alive today, keep her alive today.
7:55
Speaker 2: So when she died, I just wasn't even a little
7:58
Speaker 2: bit ready for it. And I was so distraught and
8:01
Speaker 2: so destroyed that I didn't know what to do. So
8:05
Speaker 2: the script came out of me sort of. It was.
8:08
Speaker 2: It was salvation really for me. I actually had somebody
8:12
Speaker 2: say to me, I think I think your mother should
8:14
Speaker 2: Maybe what will help you is if she lives in
8:15
Speaker 2: your work. And I said, wow, she stays alive in
8:18
Speaker 2: my work, maybe I can get through this a little easier.
8:22
Speaker 2: So I started writing. I told Chresy, said, look, I
8:24
Speaker 2: think we should make this movie, and and he was
8:26
Speaker 2: all on board. He so, I think it's a great idea.
8:28
Speaker 2: And so then the writing process began, and it was
8:33
Speaker 2: hard because I think for me, you know, I wasn't
8:37
Speaker 2: journaling during that time. I didn't want a journal. I
8:40
Speaker 2: was just sort of like, you know, a moment to moment,
8:43
Speaker 2: I was just like, you know, my mom would suddenly
8:45
Speaker 2: need oxygen, you know. I wouldn't have time to journal.
8:47
Speaker 2: I had time to like writing down or take a
8:49
Speaker 2: shower or don you know. I was just like in constant,
8:52
Speaker 2: like you know, moving trying to do that. So when
8:55
Speaker 2: everything slowed down and I had to really think about
8:59
Speaker 2: all the things that happened over the years, that was
9:02
Speaker 2: very painful and very difficult. But luckily I was able
9:08
Speaker 2: to remember all of it. And we knew that we
9:11
Speaker 2: wanted to create something that I don't know even if
9:15
Speaker 2: we knew exactly what we were creating, I think we
9:18
Speaker 2: just we knew we wanted something that was going to
9:20
Speaker 2: be this sort of moment in a life, you know,
9:24
Speaker 2: and this idea of transitioning. And for me in particular,
9:29
Speaker 2: Chris can speak to how he felt about it, but
9:31
Speaker 2: for me in particular, the thing that I wanted to
9:34
Speaker 2: capture the most for us was this idea that and
9:39
Speaker 2: this was what was so shocking to me when it happened,
9:42
Speaker 2: that when death takes over and someone starts to transition,
9:47
Speaker 2: it takes on a life of its own. It's a
9:50
Speaker 2: weird way of saying it, but it just kind of
9:53
Speaker 2: starts to move. And it was the first moment in
9:56
Speaker 2: all of it where I realized I had no control. Right,
10:00
Speaker 2: I had been controlling the narrative every day, how much medicine,
10:04
Speaker 2: how much morphine, like for years, I had been controlling everything.
10:07
Speaker 2: And then there's moment where you see, you know, I
10:10
Speaker 2: saw her feet turned blue, and I was just like,
10:14
Speaker 2: this is beyond me now, Like I have no way
10:17
Speaker 2: of doing anything. So that was very very important to
10:20
Speaker 2: us to capture in the film, that idea, because I
10:24
Speaker 2: felt like that was something that people don't talk about much,
10:26
Speaker 2: you know, that feeling of when you actually realize that
10:29
Speaker 2: death is coming and it feels like For me, what
10:32
Speaker 2: it felt like was a tsunami. Like I felt like
10:35
Speaker 2: I was sitting on a beach and there was this
10:37
Speaker 2: thing that was about to engulf both of us, and
10:40
Speaker 2: I had I couldn't run away from it fast enough.
10:44
Speaker 2: I couldn't change it. It was too big for me.
10:47
Speaker 2: And that was the thing I felt that we really
10:49
Speaker 2: wanted to portray, because I just don't think people talk
10:53
Speaker 2: about it a lot, and I think it's it's for me.
10:55
Speaker 2: It was the most sort of palpable moment when I
10:59
Speaker 2: really understood the power of death. So the writing process
11:04
Speaker 2: was revolved around for me anyway, it was revolved around
11:08
Speaker 2: that whole idea.
11:10
Speaker 1: Wow, And I think about what you mentioned, the advice
11:14
Speaker 1: you were given let your mom's legacy live through your
11:17
Speaker 1: work right, and also the component of all the emotions
11:22
Speaker 1: when the caregiver told you your mom doesn't have much
11:25
Speaker 1: time left, her feet are turning blue, and all of
11:28
Speaker 1: the flood, like you mentioned, the tsunami of emotions, of sadness,
11:33
Speaker 1: of anger, the questioning could I have done more right?
11:37
Speaker 1: I can relate to that with my mom. My mom
11:39
Speaker 1: didn't transition at home, but she transitioned in the hospital.
11:43
Speaker 1: And I was very much against my mom opting for
11:47
Speaker 1: the morphine because I felt there was still more fight
11:50
Speaker 1: in her. But there was also that component of I
11:54
Speaker 1: get to support you in this decision where you're making
11:59
Speaker 1: your exit right right. One of the things I also
12:02
Speaker 1: noticed Dana in the film. Is the sound is very important,
12:07
Speaker 1: as we know, especially in documentaries, because sound brings its
12:11
Speaker 1: own story and symbolism. And the sound that stands out
12:15
Speaker 1: so profoundly in my mind is your mom's breathing on
12:19
Speaker 1: the oxygen. And I'm curious for both of you if
12:24
Speaker 1: you would share a little bit about what was the
12:27
Speaker 1: choice behind making that sound profound throughout the entire film
12:33
Speaker 1: and also kind of what that symbolizes as far as
12:37
Speaker 1: the transition between the physical realm and onward.
12:43
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I mean, I love that you're
12:45
Speaker 2: sort of you're coining it around documentary, even though it's
12:48
Speaker 2: not technically documentary, right, because it's it's a narrative, right,
12:51
Speaker 2: so so, but because it's a fictional I guess you
12:55
Speaker 2: could call it a fictional narrative, right. But this idea
12:58
Speaker 2: of documentary is super interesting because of the fact that
13:01
Speaker 2: it's so based on our life, right And Yeah, and
13:06
Speaker 2: in the same way this idea of sound is, you know,
13:10
Speaker 2: for Chris and I, sound is such a critical part
13:13
Speaker 2: of our films, like the set. We always talk about
13:16
Speaker 2: the idea that when we make a movie and then
13:18
Speaker 2: we go into sound design, that's when you really the
13:21
Speaker 2: movie comes alive. Right then you're like, oh my gosh,
13:24
Speaker 2: there's the movie that we envisioned, right once we get
13:26
Speaker 2: the sound designer involved. And I think one of the
13:31
Speaker 2: reasons that and Chris you can speak to this too, like,
13:34
Speaker 2: I think one of the reasons that we were using
13:36
Speaker 2: the oxygen and the sound was because that sound never
13:39
Speaker 2: went away in our house, Like it was the one
13:43
Speaker 2: piece that when she died, I remember the silence like,
13:46
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you can attest that if your mom
13:48
Speaker 2: was on oxygen, it's a very particular sound, like it's
13:51
Speaker 2: with you all the time. It's almost a weird lulling
13:54
Speaker 2: thing that sort of lulls you almost to sleep, because
13:56
Speaker 2: I would sleep and in the chair next to her
13:58
Speaker 2: for months, you know, and like you're just like it
14:00
Speaker 2: kind of makes you fall asleep. And then if something
14:02
Speaker 2: goes wrong with it, you're like, wait minute, if there's
14:04
Speaker 2: something wrong with the oxygen, which happened to us once
14:06
Speaker 2: where the machine miss malfunctioned and I had to run over.
14:09
Speaker 2: But it was because I heard that sound, like I
14:11
Speaker 2: heard the sound didn't sound the same right. So for
14:15
Speaker 2: us bringing that into the to the movie was so
14:18
Speaker 2: important because it's such a palpable it's such a palpable
14:21
Speaker 2: metaphor for life, right, it's that thing that's giving her life.
14:25
Speaker 2: And then when that silence goes away and there's no
14:28
Speaker 2: more oxygen, I just remember lying in bed with her
14:31
Speaker 2: until they came to pick her up after she passed,
14:34
Speaker 2: and it was so quiet and I couldn't It was
14:39
Speaker 2: like I couldn't quite process that because for what she
14:44
Speaker 2: was in oxygen for at least a year, like for
14:47
Speaker 2: a year that that sound was in constantly in my head.
14:51
Speaker 2: So I think it was really a man How do
14:53
Speaker 2: you feel about that, like how we approached.
14:55
Speaker 3: It, Well, yeah, it was a symbol for for her life,
15:00
Speaker 3: for the life that the daughter is trying to keep going,
15:04
Speaker 3: you know. And one most thing we really discovered, particularly
15:09
Speaker 3: in post production, was that the movie takes place basically
15:14
Speaker 3: in one on the first floor of this house, and
15:17
Speaker 3: there's three main areas. There was the area at the
15:20
Speaker 3: beginning of the film where it's the kitchen, living room,
15:22
Speaker 3: front door area. There was that middle room that she
15:27
Speaker 3: passed through and what she got the news of that
15:31
Speaker 3: MAM's feet are turned. And then there's the bedroom itself,
15:33
Speaker 3: and those were three distinct sonic environments. So the noisiest
15:38
Speaker 3: environment was actually when she opened the door to the outside,
15:42
Speaker 3: it gets a lot cool. When she accepts the package,
15:44
Speaker 3: she closed the door and it becomes a lot more quiet.
15:47
Speaker 3: But that's actually the noisiest room in the house, so
15:50
Speaker 3: we allowed the most amount of noise in that in
15:53
Speaker 3: that house, the outside sounds when we got to the
15:56
Speaker 3: middle room, the middle room was that was called we
15:59
Speaker 3: call it the river room. It's actually the house that
16:01
Speaker 3: we live in. And the sound designer discovered the sound
16:05
Speaker 3: we want he wanted to inject there. It was it
16:07
Speaker 3: was the sound of a clock, and it was the
16:10
Speaker 3: ticking of a clock. So we reduced the amount of
16:13
Speaker 3: sound from the living room area and it was less
16:17
Speaker 3: and prominent was the clock. And what that was was
16:20
Speaker 3: his symbol for the fact that we all live in
16:23
Speaker 3: the field of time. This woman is a limited amount
16:26
Speaker 3: of time on earth, as we all do. And when
16:30
Speaker 3: we get to that ante room, it's like kind of
16:32
Speaker 3: like the waiting room to our launch off to wherever
16:37
Speaker 3: we go after we're alive here, So it becomes it's
16:40
Speaker 3: a symbol for we're in the field of time. And
16:44
Speaker 3: then we go into the the bedroom, and the sound
16:46
Speaker 3: of her breathing becomes louder, and almost everything else melts
16:49
Speaker 3: away and it's almost completely silent. So that room symbolized this,
16:57
Speaker 3: I guess, a train station platform that we stand on
17:02
Speaker 3: before we leave this earth, and that's what that room was.
17:07
Speaker 3: And lighting wise, we wanted the film to seem like
17:10
Speaker 3: you're not really sure what time of day or night
17:12
Speaker 3: it is, so it's kind of dark a lot, but
17:15
Speaker 3: you're not sure if it's like dusk or if it's daylight.
17:18
Speaker 3: And we had discovered from caretaking you were doing most
17:23
Speaker 3: of it. I was there for a good deal of
17:25
Speaker 3: it too, was that when you're giving medicine at two
17:29
Speaker 3: in the morning, four forty five in the morning, at
17:32
Speaker 3: eight thirty, that after a while you begin to lose
17:35
Speaker 3: track of when is daytime, when is nighttime? And we
17:38
Speaker 3: kind of wanted to give that subtle idea of like
17:43
Speaker 3: this idea of we don't really know what time it is,
17:45
Speaker 3: because at that point in her life as well, it
17:47
Speaker 3: doesn't matter what time it is, nothing else matters. So
17:51
Speaker 3: that's what we kind of like to do with this world.
17:54
Speaker 2: And the world was also if I could interject real
17:57
Speaker 2: the other thing that Chris and I talked about a
17:59
Speaker 2: lot we were making the movie was because it's what
18:02
Speaker 2: I experienced in our house in California, was that you
18:06
Speaker 2: you felt like you were in this sort of it
18:08
Speaker 2: was it was a weird environment because you felt like
18:10
Speaker 2: you were almost in kind of enthrouded in some kind
18:13
Speaker 2: of tomb, you know, in your home, right, because I
18:16
Speaker 2: at a certain point I wasn't leaving, like I would
18:19
Speaker 2: have to have people bring things because I was too
18:21
Speaker 2: afraid if we didn't have a nurse there, like occasionally
18:24
Speaker 2: the nurse would come in, but if she wasn't there,
18:27
Speaker 2: then I would not leave because if something went wrong,
18:29
Speaker 2: my mom was utterly, you know, vulnerable. So so you
18:34
Speaker 2: felt very enthrouded in this place, and it became this
18:36
Speaker 2: sort of really in some ways you felt entrapped in it,
18:41
Speaker 2: but in the other in the other in another way,
18:43
Speaker 2: you felt very much sort of protected by it, right,
18:47
Speaker 2: and the outside world was was was beyond you, right,
18:50
Speaker 2: And so we wanted to encapsulate that in the film,
18:53
Speaker 2: that feeling sound wise, especially exactly, and we did that
18:58
Speaker 2: with lighting and sound, but that's that sounds from the
19:01
Speaker 2: outside couldn't get in. And we worked really hard on
19:03
Speaker 2: that actually because we worked and we had a wonderful
19:06
Speaker 2: sound designer on this, and we we worked with him
19:10
Speaker 2: very carefully about making sure that like because you could
19:13
Speaker 2: hear a little bird occasionally, like outside the window, but
19:16
Speaker 2: we were like, it has to be very soft. It
19:18
Speaker 2: has to be very very soft, because you know, you
19:21
Speaker 2: would now you would naturally hear that, like you know,
19:25
Speaker 2: but it's so far away that we wanted to give
19:27
Speaker 2: that sense that Violet the daughter is living in this
19:32
Speaker 2: world with her mother that is very sort of sealed
19:35
Speaker 2: off from the world, not only from a physical way
19:38
Speaker 2: but an emotional way, right, because that's how you feel
19:41
Speaker 2: when you're doing that. You sort of feel like it's
19:43
Speaker 2: it's it's you guys against the world, right, which I
19:46
Speaker 2: think a lot of characters feel. I certainly felt that
19:49
Speaker 2: way about us.
19:50
Speaker 1: So yeah, And it's almost the symbolism too, of being
19:54
Speaker 1: in the capsule kind of like crowagenic state within that
19:58
Speaker 1: short period of time you mentioned a out making sure
20:01
Speaker 1: that you don't hear birds chirping, so people are not
20:03
Speaker 1: sure of the time of day that it is, and
20:06
Speaker 1: obviously the lighting even then, even at the very end
20:10
Speaker 1: of the film, Dan and when you're laying with your mom,
20:12
Speaker 1: you still cannot really tell if it's dusk or early morning, right,
20:18
Speaker 1: And the other thing I noticed too, outside of the
20:22
Speaker 1: oxygen in the film, the other thing that stands out
20:25
Speaker 1: to is obviously your mom's humor, but just that level
20:32
Speaker 1: of noticing how quiet it is too. Now that you
20:37
Speaker 1: bring it back up, I'm like, yeah, you're right the outside.
20:40
Speaker 1: I remember you open the door and the package and
20:42
Speaker 1: it being loud, but then it was sealed shut. So
20:46
Speaker 1: it's it's amazing how the power of sound also tells
20:50
Speaker 1: its own story. Before we continue with the conversation Dana
20:55
Speaker 1: and Chris, if our audience wants to obviously watch the
20:57
Speaker 1: film Turning Blue look at some of your or other work,
21:01
Speaker 1: how can they connect with you.
21:02
Speaker 3: They could see three different places. They could see it
21:04
Speaker 3: directly on our website which is at christinafilms dot com.
21:08
Speaker 3: We have other some other films of ours that are
21:10
Speaker 3: on there as well. We just got kind of distribution
21:13
Speaker 3: for the film through Crafty Crafty Films and we can
21:16
Speaker 3: send you a link to that. So it's associated with YouTube.
21:20
Speaker 3: It's free, it's a free All of these sites are free,
21:23
Speaker 3: so you could watch it there and you can also
21:25
Speaker 3: watch it on our Vimeo or YouTube channel for us
21:28
Speaker 3: as well.
21:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's available excellent, so for our audience, Dana and
21:33
Speaker 1: Chrisfilms dot com. You can do a Google search of
21:36
Speaker 1: Turning Blue when you will find it as well. And
21:39
Speaker 1: of course you know.
21:39
Speaker 2: Film, Yeah, crafty Films is great because there's other short
21:42
Speaker 2: films on there too, So it's a wonderful news site
21:45
Speaker 2: that has all these great short.
21:46
Speaker 1: Films and crafty films as well. And you can use
21:50
Speaker 1: AI to your revenge if you forget. You know, that's
21:53
Speaker 1: that AI has information on all of us that we
21:56
Speaker 1: may not even realize either.
21:59
Speaker 2: We were actually checking that the other day to see
22:01
Speaker 2: what AI says about us. So yeah, there's stiff out there.
22:05
Speaker 1: Hey, I mean it it does. It pulled up information
22:09
Speaker 1: about us that we may not even remember.
22:12
Speaker 2: Right.
22:12
Speaker 1: There was an interview I did on somebody's podcasts maybe
22:16
Speaker 1: two or three years ago, and it populated in the search,
22:20
Speaker 1: and so my AI avatar his name is mister Gray.
22:23
Speaker 1: So mister Gray is like, here, this is information I
22:26
Speaker 1: found about you on Google, and I'm like, I forgot
22:30
Speaker 1: that podcast I did that interview because I mean, you.
22:34
Speaker 2: Know agent manager, right, Like it's like they're they're right there,
22:38
Speaker 2: you know everything about you?
22:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like okay, well, I guess you just never know, right. Well,
22:44
Speaker 1: Dana and Chris, this has been an awesome conversation to
22:47
Speaker 1: learn about Turning Blue, the message that you want people
22:51
Speaker 1: to get from it. The amount of design crafting, script writing,
23:00
Speaker 1: even down to deciding on the sound and lighting and
23:05
Speaker 1: time framing of the film shows the true artistic skill
23:11
Speaker 1: that both of you have. Before we conclude our conversation
23:14
Speaker 1: for today, Dana, one of the things that I brought
23:18
Speaker 1: up in the beginning was that I really struggled when
23:21
Speaker 1: my mom opted for the morphine drip, and I could
23:24
Speaker 1: tell in the film you obviously playing yourself, but obviously Violet,
23:29
Speaker 1: you struggled when the caregiver said to you that your
23:34
Speaker 1: mom had so many hours to live. When was the
23:38
Speaker 1: last time you gave her some morphine to keep her comfortable.
23:43
Speaker 1: I'm curious, Dana, when you think back to that film,
23:47
Speaker 1: when you think back to you playing you, what was
23:50
Speaker 1: that emotional experience like for you? And what do you
23:55
Speaker 1: want other caregivers who will possibly be in your same
23:59
Speaker 1: shoe to give themselves that permission and grace to go
24:04
Speaker 1: through it as they need to.
24:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really good question. And obviously I think
24:08
Speaker 2: it's a very controversial topic. You know, I think it's
24:13
Speaker 2: a very personal topic, and so I would never tell
24:16
Speaker 2: anyone what to do or what to think. I can
24:19
Speaker 2: give you my story and people can take from that,
24:22
Speaker 2: you know what they will. You know, I first had
24:27
Speaker 2: to give mom morphine earlier on. I'm not like, not
24:33
Speaker 2: right before she died, but when she started really making
24:36
Speaker 2: a turn, which I would say was about three months
24:40
Speaker 2: before she passed, maybe three to four months before she passed.
24:44
Speaker 2: And you know, she and I had a conversation because
24:46
Speaker 2: she was still my mom, never lost her sense of
24:49
Speaker 2: her mind, like that was always intact. And you know,
24:54
Speaker 2: I said to her, Mom, there's going to be a
24:55
Speaker 2: point where I'm gonna have to make a decision and
24:59
Speaker 2: I need to know which you want, you know, ultimately,
25:01
Speaker 2: I want to know what do you want me to do?
25:04
Speaker 2: And she said, well, she said, I I don't want
25:09
Speaker 2: to suffer and I want to be comfortable. And I said, okay,
25:13
Speaker 2: then that's my job and I will follow the guidelines
25:16
Speaker 2: of the nurses. And if that's if I know that
25:17
Speaker 2: that's what you want, then I will make sure I
25:20
Speaker 2: do that the way the nurses tell me to do that.
25:23
Speaker 2: And that made her feel very secure, because I think
25:27
Speaker 2: part of what she was very frightened about was she
25:29
Speaker 2: knew me better than anybody, and she knew I was
25:32
Speaker 2: going to fight like to keep her alive. And she
25:35
Speaker 2: also knew that I wasn't I was going to I
25:37
Speaker 2: was going to go down fighting. And I think she
25:40
Speaker 2: was trying to say to me, don't do that, you know,
25:42
Speaker 2: let me, let me, let me do whatever. She wasn't
25:45
Speaker 2: afraid to die. She was afraid to suffer is what
25:48
Speaker 2: she was afraid of, and so I knew that going in,
25:52
Speaker 2: and so I was like, okay. And when when I
25:57
Speaker 2: had to start giving her morphine and the nurse came
25:59
Speaker 2: over and eplain to me how to do it, and
26:02
Speaker 2: she could see it, and I told her, I said,
26:04
Speaker 2: I'm really reticent to do this, even though my mom
26:07
Speaker 2: had already said I don't want to tell her, but
26:09
Speaker 2: I was still feeling that, you know, oh God, I
26:11
Speaker 2: don't want to do this. And I remember the nurse
26:14
Speaker 2: saying to me, look, Dana, I know what it looks
26:19
Speaker 2: like to die from COPD, and she said, it is
26:24
Speaker 2: not pretty and she said, your mom's going to need this.
26:29
Speaker 2: She's going to need this in order to keep her comfortable.
26:32
Speaker 2: And she said, you're going to I really suggest if
26:35
Speaker 2: you want, if you want her to stay comfortable, this
26:39
Speaker 2: is really what we need to do. And that was
26:42
Speaker 2: a hard conversation for me, but I heard it and
26:45
Speaker 2: I was like, I got it, Like, this is my responsibility,
26:49
Speaker 2: this is what I've signed on for. And so so
26:52
Speaker 2: I was pretty good, you know, once I knew that,
26:54
Speaker 2: Once my mom had said this is what I want,
26:57
Speaker 2: and then the nurse had said, this is what it
26:59
Speaker 2: looks like. If you don't do it, it's going to
27:01
Speaker 2: be bad, really bad, and she's going to really suffer.
27:06
Speaker 2: And she explained to me what air hunger looked like,
27:08
Speaker 2: and she explained all of it. She said, this is
27:10
Speaker 2: going to be bad for her, and I said okay.
27:13
Speaker 2: So then I was like, all right, I'm my job
27:15
Speaker 2: is no longer what I want. It's what she wants
27:18
Speaker 2: and what she needs and that's what I'm here for.
27:21
Speaker 2: Right And so that was, you know, that was pretty
27:25
Speaker 2: much what I did. I mean, I will say that
27:27
Speaker 2: the night the day that she died, it was very
27:31
Speaker 2: hard for me because I knew that, you know, I
27:34
Speaker 2: knew I was allowed to give her, you know, I
27:36
Speaker 2: was following the guidelines, and they told me how much
27:38
Speaker 2: I could give her, and it seemed like a lot
27:41
Speaker 2: to me, you know, and I was really scared to
27:43
Speaker 2: give her as much as I was allowed to give her.
27:46
Speaker 2: And it was very, very, very hard for me because
27:50
Speaker 2: I knew that what was happening was I was really
27:53
Speaker 2: you know, I was just helping her stay comfortable so
27:55
Speaker 2: she could let go. So I don't I don't want
27:59
Speaker 2: to say it was easy, because that would be that
28:02
Speaker 2: would be disingenuous to say that I didn't struggle with it.
28:07
Speaker 2: But I knew that, you know, I knew that I
28:09
Speaker 2: was told that this is what I should do, you know,
28:12
Speaker 2: and if I if I wanted to keep her comfortable
28:14
Speaker 2: and she wanted to die comfortably, that's what I needed
28:18
Speaker 2: to do. And so I did it. But but it
28:20
Speaker 2: was not simple. It went against everything in my heart
28:24
Speaker 2: because I knew that what I was doing was was
28:27
Speaker 2: helping her let go so she could die comfortably. And
28:32
Speaker 2: like I said, you know, the nurses were there and
28:33
Speaker 2: they you know, and everything. But but yeah, I think
28:37
Speaker 2: it's a really hard thing to do you know, I think,
28:40
Speaker 2: especially if you're at home and you know, so it's
28:44
Speaker 2: there's no easy answer. But I but I think ultimately
28:47
Speaker 2: my mom, my mom died really peacefully. You know. I
28:51
Speaker 2: think she she left when she was ready and and
28:55
Speaker 2: I think, you know, my my care team made that happen,
29:00
Speaker 2: helped to make that happen, and I'm just so grateful
29:02
Speaker 2: that she, you know, she went when when she was ready,
29:07
Speaker 2: and she went comfortably. So I think I think with
29:11
Speaker 2: the team that I had and and they you know,
29:13
Speaker 2: and what I was and how I was advised and
29:15
Speaker 2: what they were doing when I was doing, I think
29:17
Speaker 2: we we gave her the best death she possibly could have.
29:22
Speaker 1: But it's hard, and that's I think essentially, that's what
29:26
Speaker 1: you're saying, and that's what I think people need to
29:28
Speaker 1: recognize that it's not an easy decision at all, whether
29:34
Speaker 1: your loved one opts for a comfortable transition, obviously if
29:38
Speaker 1: it's sudden. I think the key component here is it's
29:43
Speaker 1: hard regardless and you're never prepared, you're never ready what
29:47
Speaker 1: it's going to look like.
29:49
Speaker 2: And it just happened different for everybody, right, It depends
29:52
Speaker 2: on the person, depends on the disease depends on there's
29:55
Speaker 2: so many mitigating factors and making those decisions, and I
30:00
Speaker 2: think for me, I just wanted to do what she wanted.
30:03
Speaker 2: You know. That was really because I knew. And of
30:07
Speaker 2: course I don't know. I don't think we've ever discussed this,
30:08
Speaker 2: but I've certainly talked to friends of mine who've been
30:10
Speaker 2: through this before as well, like you know, as her
30:14
Speaker 2: daughter and as someone who loved her so much. I mean,
30:17
Speaker 2: my mom and I were like this, and I know
30:19
Speaker 2: you and your mom were too. Like my whole my
30:23
Speaker 2: whole job, you know, was to keep her alive, you know,
30:27
Speaker 2: And that was my whole job. And I took it
30:31
Speaker 2: and I ran with it and I focused on it,
30:33
Speaker 2: and that was it. Like I loved it every minute
30:35
Speaker 2: of the day. Like I didn't like when she suffered,
30:37
Speaker 2: but I loved caring for her. And it was so
30:39
Speaker 2: easy to care for her. But there was a point,
30:44
Speaker 2: and this actually happened somewhat early on. She had COPD
30:48
Speaker 2: and we had this amazing pulmonary specialist that was her doctor,
30:52
Speaker 2: and my mom and I really never fought, like we weren't.
30:55
Speaker 2: We never fought. We were so close, but occasionally we
30:57
Speaker 2: would have a little tif but it was never like
30:59
Speaker 2: a fight. But I took her the doctor one day
31:02
Speaker 2: and our doctor, who I just adored, was sitting there
31:06
Speaker 2: and I can't remember what it was, but it was
31:08
Speaker 2: about at that point. She was still up and moving
31:10
Speaker 2: around and stuff. I think she'd stopped working at that point.
31:14
Speaker 2: But the doctor said, well, Carol, maybe you could do this,
31:18
Speaker 2: maybe you could walk a little bit. And I was like,
31:19
Speaker 2: you know, she's not walking. She's supposed to be walking.
31:22
Speaker 2: You know, We're sitting there, my mom's looking upset, and
31:24
Speaker 2: I'm looking upset, and the doctor looked at me and
31:26
Speaker 2: she she was just kind of keeping her mouth shut whatever.
31:29
Speaker 2: And my mom and I, like I said, we never thought,
31:31
Speaker 2: but we got a little into it because I was like,
31:32
Speaker 2: you're not doing what the doctor's telling you to do, mom,
31:34
Speaker 2: you know. And so anyway, we went home and the
31:37
Speaker 2: next day the doctor calls me and she'd never done
31:40
Speaker 2: that before, and she called me. She said, hey, Dana, listen,
31:42
Speaker 2: do you have a minute And I said yeah, sure,
31:44
Speaker 2: and she said listen, I just wanted to talk to
31:45
Speaker 2: you about something. And I said okay, and she said,
31:48
Speaker 2: you know, I've been taking care of Carol for a while.
31:50
Speaker 2: She said, you guys have a really special relationship, and
31:53
Speaker 2: clearly the two of you adore each other. And she said,
31:56
Speaker 2: but I could see there's a little tension yesterday and
31:59
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, you know, I just I want her
32:00
Speaker 2: to do and she said, let me say something to you.
32:02
Speaker 2: She said, Carol is going to do what Carol wants
32:07
Speaker 2: to do. And she said, so, I think it's important
32:10
Speaker 2: that you know that because as as she's going through this,
32:15
Speaker 2: I want you to make sure you have as much
32:17
Speaker 2: good time with her as you can. And honestly, that
32:22
Speaker 2: was it was the best piece of advice I'd ever gotten,
32:28
Speaker 2: because I was fighting so hard for me, you know,
32:32
Speaker 2: because I couldn't stand losing her. And what I think
32:36
Speaker 2: I realized in that moment was my job was to
32:40
Speaker 2: help her get through it, not help me get through it.
32:44
Speaker 2: And everything changed for me that day. That conversation made
32:49
Speaker 2: me say, you know what, I'm not going to agree
32:52
Speaker 2: with everything she wants to do. I'm going to get
32:54
Speaker 2: frustrated because I want to keep her here longer. But
32:57
Speaker 2: it's her life, and it's her life to live, and
33:00
Speaker 2: the only job I have right now is to help
33:03
Speaker 2: her live it. The best she can and eventually help
33:06
Speaker 2: her die. And I think if the doctor hadn't said
33:11
Speaker 2: that to me, I would have fought with her more
33:14
Speaker 2: about the things I wanted her to do, and I
33:16
Speaker 2: think that would have taken away really precious time. And
33:19
Speaker 2: so I'm indebted to that doctor, you know, for how
33:23
Speaker 2: she had the courage to call me and tell me
33:26
Speaker 2: what she thought.
33:28
Speaker 1: And Dan, I appreciate you sharing that because it's it's
33:31
Speaker 1: one of those things where even as we're going through
33:34
Speaker 1: something challenging, look at how we're given those reminders, right
33:41
Speaker 1: of what your mom wants, Carol's going to do, Carol right,
33:45
Speaker 1: but look at also the amount of time that you
33:48
Speaker 1: were able to be with her to obviously memorialize her
33:53
Speaker 1: legacy through this film. So sometimes we never know what
33:57
Speaker 1: the gift is going to be when something transitions, a
34:01
Speaker 1: legit transition. So, Dana and Chris, before we conclude, I
34:06
Speaker 1: didn't want to forget to bring this up. You will
34:09
Speaker 1: be showcasing your film this year at Kent State for
34:14
Speaker 1: a grief event on October twenty ninth. So, Dana, did
34:18
Speaker 1: you want to share with our audience about the event.
34:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, then you should jump in too, because we're both
34:23
Speaker 2: part of this. Yeah, so it's a really exciting event.
34:27
Speaker 2: So Porsche and I will be at Kent State doing
34:32
Speaker 2: what's going to be a grief event, and Chris will
34:34
Speaker 2: be with us as well. We're going to be screening
34:38
Speaker 2: Turning Blue and having a conversation and a Q and
34:43
Speaker 2: A about it afterwards, and then Porsche, you're going to
34:47
Speaker 2: bring your expertise since why don't you talk about what
34:49
Speaker 2: you're going to be doing.
34:50
Speaker 1: So, outside of obviously moderating the panel discussion after the film,
34:55
Speaker 1: I will be also running the death kefic because let's
34:59
Speaker 1: be realistic that a lot of people have questions about transition,
35:04
Speaker 1: about grief, about dying, that they may not feel comfortable
35:09
Speaker 1: asking their family, they may feel like they're the black sheep.
35:13
Speaker 1: So I really want this to be a space where
35:16
Speaker 1: people can come together where yes, we've all experienced some
35:20
Speaker 1: type of loss or transition in our life, but it's
35:23
Speaker 1: that reminder of there's other people who've experienced similar and
35:27
Speaker 1: you don't have to walk the path alone. And let's
35:31
Speaker 1: be honest too, a lot of people's greatest works come
35:34
Speaker 1: through the loss or transition of someone, So why not
35:38
Speaker 1: join together in something through an artistic lens instead of
35:43
Speaker 1: sometimes through a more clinical or professional approach. So that's
35:48
Speaker 1: what this event is all about. It's called the Cluse
35:50
Speaker 1: of Our Grief and the Evening of Creative Expression. It
35:54
Speaker 1: is on October twenty ninth this year at Kent State.
35:56
Speaker 1: So I'll put the link and everything in the show
35:59
Speaker 1: notes of the show so that way, if you are
36:02
Speaker 1: interested in coming, you can reach out to me. Obviously
36:04
Speaker 1: reach out to Dana if you have questions. So I'm
36:07
Speaker 1: really excited Dana, because I know this has been a
36:09
Speaker 1: conversation for a couple of years that we've had to
36:12
Speaker 1: get this out into the community because people need it
36:16
Speaker 1: more than anything. People are more vocal about their grief
36:20
Speaker 1: today than once before, and I think there's such a
36:24
Speaker 1: richness in people being able to share their stories, especially
36:28
Speaker 1: about their loved ones who have made their transitions. About
36:31
Speaker 1: the imprints as you mentioned with your mom, are being funny, right,
36:34
Speaker 1: you're gonna blow me up? Right? Or you know little
36:38
Speaker 1: tips that you both have. We all carry those, but
36:42
Speaker 1: not all the time we're given that safe space to
36:45
Speaker 1: share those vulnerable moments because oftentimes our families and our
36:49
Speaker 1: friends cannot hold space for our grief. But there are
36:52
Speaker 1: other people who can absolutely.
36:55
Speaker 2: And I think that, you know, it's so exciting for me,
36:58
Speaker 2: poor Shoe, because we, like you said, we've been talking
37:00
Speaker 2: about this for a couple of years, and you know,
37:03
Speaker 2: we knew we were going to do something, and now
37:05
Speaker 2: we're doing it right. And I think the one thing
37:07
Speaker 2: that you and I have been saying consistently is this
37:11
Speaker 2: idea of community, right because I know for me, you know,
37:15
Speaker 2: obviously Chris and I were together, so I've always had him,
37:18
Speaker 2: but it was kind of us against the world, and
37:21
Speaker 2: I always felt a sense of loneliness through it, you know,
37:24
Speaker 2: And I think that the more people can feel like,
37:27
Speaker 2: you know, what other people are feeling exactly the way
37:29
Speaker 2: you're feeling, it does lift it a little bit. I mean,
37:33
Speaker 2: it never goes away. It's not that it you know,
37:36
Speaker 2: you know, obviously time takes time is the thing that
37:38
Speaker 2: helps the most, right, but it kind of takes the
37:41
Speaker 2: it takes some of the pressure off to know that
37:43
Speaker 2: other people are going through similar things.
37:47
Speaker 3: We also we screamed this for Death Cafe before, and
37:51
Speaker 3: they're amazing, amazing experiences because it's exactly that people feel
37:55
Speaker 3: like they're not alone and they could just talk to
37:57
Speaker 3: other people that have been through it, you know, but
38:00
Speaker 3: we're all heading in that direction, all of us, right,
38:04
Speaker 3: And that's one of the most amazing things as well too.
38:06
Speaker 3: When you see somebody to the end of their life,
38:09
Speaker 3: it really puts your own mortality in perspective as well.
38:13
Speaker 3: So it's a really powerful I really encourage people, if
38:16
Speaker 3: they watch us, to try to make that screening because
38:19
Speaker 3: there's nothing like being in theater and just watching this
38:23
Speaker 3: film and then just everybody sharing it afterwards. You know,
38:26
Speaker 3: death cafes really amazing. Encourage people to go.
38:30
Speaker 1: One hundred percent supported. I mean, all of us have
38:33
Speaker 1: been in the day of both you and I have
38:35
Speaker 1: walked this journey with both of our moms, and it's
38:38
Speaker 1: not easy. It's bittersweet. We get to say hello, but
38:43
Speaker 1: it's never easy to say good about our person. So
38:46
Speaker 1: I encourage all of you who want to build that
38:48
Speaker 1: sense of community, watch a great film and give yourself
38:54
Speaker 1: that permission to grieve with others who are going to
38:57
Speaker 1: put their arms around you. I encourage you to come. Well,
39:01
Speaker 1: everybody that was Dana and Chris that you heard from
39:05
Speaker 1: today on grew of Portie, the directors of Turning Blue,
39:08
Speaker 1: and that concludes our conversation and until next time, everybody,
39:12
Speaker 1: piece and hair Greece, everyone,