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A Heavy Loss; a Strong Faith – with David Geisler · True Comfort

• Teasi Cannon (00:00) I'm TC and I want to welcome you to true comfort where it's our desire to live out 2nd Corinthians chapter 1 verses 3 & 4 which assure us that we have a God who comforts us in all our afflictions and encourage us to share the comfort that we've received with those who need it and I also want to welcome my guest David Geisler. David thank you so much it's such a privilege to have you here today. David Geisler (00:25) Great to be with you. Teasi Cannon (00:26) So I'm gonna read a little bit of David's bio for you because there is so much good stuff in here and I don't wanna miss any of it. So David is the co-author of Conversational Evangelism alongside his late father, renowned author and speaker and debater and teacher, Dr. Norman Geisler. He co-founded and is the president of Norm Geisler International Ministries. which provides resources and training in a three-dimensional integration of apologetics, evangelism, and discipleship. David is also an adjunct professor at Southern Evangelical Seminary and Veritas International University. He also serves on the leadership panel of International Discipleship Making Conferences, founded by Reverend Edmund Chan, and is the executive producer and co-writer for NGIM's award-winning documentary about his father's life and impact. which I do have to say is so worth watching. And you can find that film on the NGIM, is it NGIM.org? David Geisler (01:28) So it's Norm Geisler, TheMovie.com. No space. Teasi Cannon (01:32) Okay, it is, I had your father, I think I had mentioned this to you as a professor when I audited my very first seminary class in apologetics. It was the intro to apologetics and he was my instructor, but I didn't really know anything about his personal life and I was just blown away that he was virtually illiterate until 17 and then went on to write like 100 books on very intellectually dense. topics, you know, just, you know, philosophy and theology and such a legacy. ⁓ And I can imagine what a joy and how heart, gut wrenching and all the feelings that you must have had ⁓ co-producing that movie. But I was wondering, did you always have a passion to follow in your father's footsteps in this way, like in a ministry direction? David Geisler (02:31) Actually, TC, I wasn't actually. When I was in grade school, I was passionate about evangelism, not apologetics. And in seventh grade, I led my best friend to the Lord, and then his whole family came to Christ, and I just had a passion for evangelism. But over the years, I've learned how to use apologetics. Teasi Cannon (02:42) Okay. David Geisler (02:58) in more effective witnessing because I don't know if you know much about my background in the 90s, but I was hired by CREW, Campus Crusade for Christ, to develop a national pilot program in 1994 because by then you couldn't just use a little gospel booklet. and share the little gospel booklet with graduate students because as Gene Vieth pointed out, it's hard to proclaim forgiveness of sins to people who believe that since morality is relative, they have no sense to forgive. And graduate students didn't feel like they were sinner that needed a savior. And then they were also questioning whether even God existed. And so how could we Teasi Cannon (03:34) Mm-hmm. Right. David Geisler (03:49) helped them see the gospel just by just reading a little booklet. It just wasn't going to work very well. And so I got more into apologetics at that point. But at that point, I had already been trained by Norm Geisler. And I'll be honest, from the time I was five years old to the present, I've never had any doubts about my faith. Teasi Cannon (04:07) night. Wow. David Geisler (04:17) One of my life goals is to give to every Christian parent the gift that my dad gave me. Teasi Cannon (04:24) Yeah. Wow. What? I, first of all, I love your approach and I love your focus on, I think it's called pre-evangelism where you are taking the time to get to know people's hearts. And also with the approach of trying to show people what is so amazing and right and true about Jesus rather than coming in with the goal of poking holes in what they already believe. And there is so much good and true and substantiated about who Jesus is. and the Christian worldview. And, you know, I think your approach is still just as needed today, if not more so, with just so much subjective relativity and People don't believe the news anymore. I mean, what is truth? That pre-evangelism, that approach that you have is still just as necessary today as it was in the 90s. And so I do recommend, I will put the information on how to find your ministry in the show notes for sure, so that people can find those resources. And you offer training as well, and you speak, you, you know, around the world. So I so appreciate that. ⁓ It's fascinating to me that you never dealt with any doubt but I can understand why. If you were just immersed in the amazing evidence that there is for the Christian worldview and I'm sure your dad also was very comfortable discussing other worldviews with you and not feeling any fear. David Geisler (05:57) And what got me really excited is when I saw the connection between 1st Peter 3 15 and Matthew 13 versus 19 to 23 that talks about cultivating good soil and when I saw that connection I realized that people don't always ask us questions and yet we are responsible Teasi Cannon (06:13) Mmm. David Geisler (06:22) for removing their barriers, whether they ask us a question or not, and cultivating good soil. And then I discovered when I worked with graduate students that there were three areas that college students, graduate students had misconceptions that kept us from cultivating good soil in their life. They have misconceptions about themselves, about God the Father, and about Jesus. And if we... Teasi Cannon (06:27) Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. David Geisler (06:52) every day can help people to see the distortions about in those three areas. That's what pre-evangelism is. That can help us to help people be more open to hearing the gospel. And so when I saw that connection between 1 Peter 3.15 and Matthew 19, 19 to 23, that's when it energized me even more so. Teasi Cannon (07:01) Yeah. Mm. David Geisler (07:21) teach this integrated apologetic evangelism approach. Teasi Cannon (07:26) That's amazing. And as you were saying that, I was also thinking of how that relates to our own identity. As you help people understand their misconceptions or bad, faulty ideas about God, about... Truth about Jesus. It also helps with the mass confusion we have in our day with identity and our own identity and I've you know, I find that the most Comforting thing I ever do when I'm struggling with my own feelings of failure or inadequacy or anything related to who I am is to focus on who God is and to remember his character and his goodness as my father. ⁓ So I guess I say all that to say I agree. It's in my life that definitely has been a blessing those focuses. And you know I'm excited to hear what you have to share today. I think this conversation is going to be such a blessing to people that are listening. And just as a reminder what I do each week is I have been inviting an apologist to come and open up their heart to share with us ⁓ a story of maybe a situation in the past or an ongoing feeling of pain, heartbreak, confusion, and then to express and share how God comforts them in that. That could be a scripture or just the biblical worldview in general. And then you haven't struggled with doubt. You have trusted God's promise But what I would love at some point that you know after you've shared is just what are the evidences that you You find the most substantive and so we will eventually get there What I want to do is just say that my hope in these conversations is for anyone who's listening To first of all see that you're not alone in having struggles and pain and heartbreak The Christian life does include that Jesus promised that we would have Tribulation he he he promised us but that he wouldn't leave us alone in it and that you will also maybe acquire some new tools that can help you have a more confident faith that can help you trust that God's promises are not empty. And before I let David just share his heart with us, I do want to just say kind of as a a blanket blanket content warning, so to speak, is that these conversations sometimes do open up into very painful topics and they are not pre-scripted. So I just want to say that we are opening up with transparency and honesty. so listeners, just be aware that that is the heart of these conversations. And so David, thank you again for being willing to just come be honest with us. Open up your heart to model for us how kind and comforting God can be in some of the hardest places of life. So thank you. I'm gonna be quiet and let you just start wherever you'd like to. David Geisler (10:26) Sure, ⁓ I'm sure that you, when you saw the movie, you saw the part in the movie that we made about my father where he talked about my sister wrote as suicide. And I'm sure you realize for our family that that was very, very difficult. It was a very difficult period of our life. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (10:40) Mm. David Geisler (10:54) You know, before that period, I didn't see my dad cry much in his whole life. And after that period, that's all he would do is cry. Teasi Cannon (10:59) Mm. Yeah, well tell me how that made you feel. What did that do to in your heart? What was that like and how old were you at that time? David Geisler (11:15) So this is in 2001, so 24 years ago. This was 24 years ago. And what happened was that my sister Rhoda had gone to church with us growing up, but when she became an adult, she threw God out of her life. And then she started throwing us out of her life and she got more and more depressed. And then she just, we found out, you know, almost around Christmas time on the 20, 01 that she committed suicide and it was devastating for many reasons, but It was especially really hard for me because I really didn't think my sister was a Christian. And so here's the question that I really struggle with is how could I be happy in heaven if my sister's not there? Teasi Cannon (12:32) Yeah. David Geisler (12:33) And I really struggled with that for a little bit of time. And then one day I remembered something my father taught me that helps to bridge faith in reason. He taught me this principle. I can trust God for what I don't know because of what he's revealed to me that I do know. And I do know that Revelation 21 for says that God will wipe away all our tears someday. It says in Revelation 21 for let me just read this. He will wipe away every tear from their eye and death shall be no more. Neither shall there be mourning or crying or pain anymore for the former things have passed away. And I realized that I don't know how I'm gonna be happy in heaven if my sister's not there, but the Bible promises me that I will. Teasi Cannon (13:44) Hmm. David Geisler (13:46) And I also knew that I could trust the Bible to tell me the truth. Why? Because Jesus said that we can trust the Bible. He says in Matthew five, heaven and earth will pass away, but my words won't. And then I also realized something else. I can trust Jesus because he claimed and proved to be God. And so I realized that because I knew what I believed and why I believed it. It really helped me get through a very, very, very difficult period of... And so if I were like explaining this to someone, like how can I know that I can trust Jesus because he claimed and proved to be God? I usually start with what I teach sixth through eighth graders, which is called the four and the three. The four I learned from Dr. Gary Habermas, who's an expert in the resurrection. And the three I learned from my father. Geisler. So there are four things that many non-believers will agree with Christians concerning Jesus. He died by crucifixion. He was placed in a tomb. It was found empty three days later. Number of people claim to have seen him after the resurrection. And number four, those who knew him the best, his disciples, were willing to die for that belief. Now history, people may believe something that they think is true, but unfortunately is false. But history has yet to record someone who died for a belief they know to be false. And if the disciples lived during the time of Jesus, they would know whether it was true or false or not. And most of them died a martyr's death. And so when I'm talking to my skeptical scholarly friends, Teasi Cannon (15:30) Mm-hmm. Right. Right. David Geisler (15:51) I just point out some of those simple facts that the four and then the three, the three things that Jesus did to prove he was God. He lived a sinless and miraculous life. He fulfilled prophecy written hundreds of years before he ever existed. And then he died on the cross and rose from the dead. And just think about it. Who has like, qualifications that Jesus has. Does Buddha have that? Does Mohammed have that? Does Confucius have that? No. ⁓ And so those are some of the very, very simple facts that I think every Christian ought to know. The four and the three. And just knowing that even if you've never read a Frank Turek and Norm Geisler book, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. Teasi Cannon (16:38) Yes. Right. ⁓ David Geisler (16:49) If you just know those four and three things, God can use that in your witness to make a difference. And God used all of this, all that my father taught me 24 years ago to help me get through that very painful, painful experience that our family went through. And that was more difficult for me personally. because I did not believe my sister was a Christian. Teasi Cannon (17:23) Did your other family members believe that she was? Okay. David Geisler (17:28) My dad did. And it's not clear what my other family members believed about that. And I did not want to bring it up because obviously that was just too painful to talk about. ⁓ there's an example of where apologetics really helped me to deal with the pain in my life. Teasi Cannon (17:44) Right. David Geisler (17:56) One of the things I'm very thankful for is my father taught me this principle about evil and suffering that, you know, God is all the things that we've been through in this life ⁓ that will pale in comparison to the glory that will be revealed to us, right? A lot of times people have this perspective that if God doesn't like increase my happiness in this life, if he doesn't maximize my happiness, then he has blown it. He's messed up. But one of the things my dad taught me is the purpose of this life is not to maximize our happiness, is to maximize our knowledge of God that will bring happiness in the next life. Teasi Cannon (18:34) Mm-hmm. That is huge. I really want you to say that again because I think that is such an important perspective. If you could, mean, you may not just, yeah, say that one more time. It's so important for us to hear that. David Geisler (19:00) Okay. Sure. So, so I think a lot of people are angry at God and that's why they don't come to him because they think God's purpose, if he created me, my life, he should be maximizing the happiness in my life now. But that's not what God promises us in his word. He promises us that he's going to maximize his knowledge of God. Teasi Cannon (19:14) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. David Geisler (19:31) so that we can have happiness in the next life. Remember what C.S. Lewis says, God whispers to us in our pleasures, he speaks to us in our conscience, but he what? He shouts to us in our pain. Pain is God's megaphone to arouse a deaf world. My father would use this illustration ⁓ sometimes when he talked about the problem of pain and suffering. He would talk about leprosy. Teasi Cannon (19:39) Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. David Geisler (20:01) and how people die of leprosy is because they can't feel anything. And so when they put their hand on a stove, they don't feel it and they burn their flesh. So a little pain is actually good. Now, obviously when we go through incredible suffering, we don't have all those answers. But we do understand what the apostle Paul taught that what light momentary Teasi Cannon (20:07) Mm. Right. David Geisler (20:31) afflictions are yielding for us what an eternal way to glory far beyond comparison and some days ⁓ tc i just have to hold on to that truth like i i don't have an answer for people i don't have you know this apologetic answer to the problem of evil and suffering in a way that's going to answer everyone's doubts and hurts and concerns Teasi Cannon (20:38) Right. Right. Yeah, I, but what you've said is that we do have, like God has loved us enough to give us knowledge of his character. He has left, he isn't completely hiding. He is hidden to a degree that will keep us pursuing him. But he has given us enough that we can find answers to, that we can substantiate our trust in him. And then when we come to these days when we can't understand and we don't have an answer, like I'm absolutely, I mean, I have to be honest. I'm sure your sister was raised with the same information, the same bounty of quality, clear, concise biblical instruction, along with the evidence that many of us wish we could have had as children. ⁓ And then to find out that. Who knows? Who knows what happened at the final moments of her life? You know, we don't know what she did with all of that, but she, minimally, wouldn't you say she had the same amount of information? She had enough, but took a different road, at least she didn't enjoy it. It doesn't sound like she didn't enjoy the fruit of having that. ⁓ which goes to show you it can't just be about information. We have this other piece of our journey with the Lord which is relationship and ⁓ you know we cannot give our relationship to others. I've heard, you know, we have our own subjective experiences with the love of God, with understanding him as a good father, but that's not transferable. I wish that we could do that. I wish that we could just take a piece of our relational knowledge with God and hand it to someone, but we can definitely share about it and we can, we can ⁓ care about other people's hearts. and but we definitely still need these facts to cling to when we do struggle because I'm sure, mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but your sister's death wasn't just a one and done pain. I'm sure that you have revisited that many times in your life and have thought about, you know, I have a sibling that died not from suicide, but from an overdose. 16, going on 16, well, no, that's way too long. I can't remember right now how many years, it's over 10. And I think I look back and I always wonder, man, could I have done this or should I have hugged him one more time or these things. ⁓ So all that to say is the pain, the grief, it comes in different cycles, it comes in different waves and it's related to different things you continue to walk through in your life. And that is when what you're saying is you've never doubted God in the midst of it. You might have questions about God. We have questions about people we know, any relationship we have. We're not going to know everything there is to know about anyone, but we can trust enough. So that's what I hear you saying. David Geisler (24:11) Sure. Sure. Well, and a positive thing that came out of that bad situation is when we lived in Singapore, my wife Charlene is Chinese, and when we lived in Singapore from 2004 to 2011 and I preached in different churches, I shared that story about my sister's suicide and how I could not really do anything to help her. But I can do something to help those that are still left. and to let them understand that being a Christian is more than just some facts. information about Jesus dying, but Jesus dying is about transforming our lives. Paul said in Philippians 2 13, God is at work in us. Both the will and work is good pleasure. And when I would share that story and share how God wants to do more in our lives and we need to turn to him, I had many people from 2004 to 2011 walk forward and pray to receive Christ at the end of the service. So God has already used that tragic story to further his kingdom. Teasi Cannon (25:39) Yeah, and I couldn't help but think about that Lewis quote, God uses pain as a megaphone, but he uses that through our own stories, not just our own, like your pain draws you to God, but also your pain has the, through your testimony is also drawing people to him. And I mean, I don't know if I'm articulating that very well, but it just dawned on me right then. I'm like, this is another way that we comfort others with the comfort we've received. It is still pain. It is a beautiful way that God redeems. He doesn't call bad things good, but he uses bad things for good over and over and over again. David Geisler (26:03) Yes. Yes. Right. Just thinking of that verse Romans 828 that God causes all things to work together for the good to them that love him to them are called according to his purpose and I think sometimes when we don't have answers to know God, why did you allow this in my life? ⁓ All we can hold on to for the moment maybe God I know you're gonna You are so sovereign. You are so amazing that somehow you're going to take all this evil and suffering and cause great things to happen. And when we get to heaven, we're just going to be blown away. Like Paul said, light momentary afflictions are yielding for us. Eternal weight of glory is far beyond comparison. And as I get older and older, I'm looking more and more. forward to that day. Teasi Cannon (27:18) Right, and you think about what Paul had gone through when he called it light momentary afflictions. So, you I can think someone listening going, wow, that's, well, my afflictions aren't light, but we have to remember neither were Paul's. I don't know how I would manage being shipwrecked, flogged multiple times, put in prison. David Geisler (27:22) I know. Exactly. Teasi Cannon (27:42) And that's just the top. Think about what he went through socially. Like those are really big afflictions, but everywhere he went, I'm sure he was ⁓ falsely accused. I'm sure horrible things were being said of him. People that used to be his friends when he was persecuting Christians probably hated him. So you add to that all the social pain, all the rejection, the betrayal. We can't. you know, romanticize what Paul went through or like you mentioned, the disciples, they all suffered and died. They suffered. They all suffered. Some were martyred, but they all suffered for what they believed about Jesus. And when we read through this, so encouraging to me is that when we read through the Gospels and through the Book of Acts and we see what the true Christian life looked like, we don't see this example of everything being easy, but we see the power of Christ, the Holy Spirit, working in the lives of real people, getting them through. We aren't gonna always be removed out of painful circumstances, but the fact that we can even get through some of what we go through and come out on the other side with any hope at all is a miracle. Is, think, in my own life, evidence for David Geisler (28:42) Right. Right. Teasi Cannon (29:04) God's love that there have been many things I've walked through. I'm sure you too that God didn't choose to remove me from but I'm still here and I like you said you are looking so forward to seeing him face to face and the pain in my own life hasn't caused me to be cynical about God. It has actually caused me to crave his presence more and I also I'm with you. I cannot wait until every tear is wiped away. And I believe it will be based on the evidence that I have from the cross from the resurrection. ⁓ What are some other encouragements that you might be able to give people on the meantime? Like, you know, we have these tragedies and we have this future hope and we have all this, who knows? I could live another 50 years. I could experience way more hardship. I'm not expecting everything to be easy. Like I have a quota, okay, God, I've been through my share of hard things. I know that. more could come. Do you have some encouragement for people on how to get through the daily? David Geisler (30:12) Yeah, well, let me tell you first of all a story and then let me just kind of remind everyone of what we already know. It's just sometimes we need to be reminded of. When I lived in Singapore from 2004 to 2011 and I trained in Asia and I taught in different seminaries. Teasi Cannon (30:23) Yes, we do. ⁓ David Geisler (30:34) I was invited to speak on a panel discussion, a religious panel discussion to represent Christianity. And there were different people representing different religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, lots of different religions. And someone from the audience that night asked the most important question of the night. And the question is this, how does your religion help mankind to stop hating other people? And I thought, Whoa, what a great question. And I had an answer from a Christian standpoint, but I wanted to see what these other religious leaders were going to say about that. And no one said a Teasi Cannon (31:17) Really? David Geisler (31:17) had an answer. And so finally after 15 seconds, I said this, the Bible teaches in Romans 8 11 that that same power that raised Jesus from the dead is available to me as a Christian. And because of that, I can be a better father to my children. I can be a better husband to my wife, Charlene. And yes, I can love those I naturally hate. And at that moment, ⁓ my goodness, it was amazing. It was like the Holy Spirit had broken through the whole room. And I think even my religious panel of experts understood at that moment, Jesus is the only one that can transform our lives. Like Paul said in Philippians 2.13, he's the only one who can do it. Our hope is in Jesus. And so in the midst of all the suffering that we continually go through, we need to remind ourselves, we've already been given the answer. We've already been transformed and someday we will be like Jesus, exactly like Jesus. And sometimes we just gotta hold on to that hope. TC. I mean, we just have to hold on. Teasi Cannon (32:50) Yeah. I love that. and I like you said at the beginning part of what your your ministry is is helping people understand what part of what Jesus did was not just to get us out of hell free card kind of thing. He has this ministry of reconciling us to our Heavenly Father. We are reconciled to a Father who loves us and who is good and One thing that I encourage people to see as well, and I'd love for you to chime in more on this, is that when I am questioning the goodness of God by looking at circumstances in the world, I'm looking at all the suffering, I'm looking at all the pain, not only in my own life, but turn the news on, it can be overwhelming, the amount of evil and suffering, and then you add to it natural disasters and all of that. It is going to be hard to see the goodness of God in those data points, but it is not at all hard to see the goodness of God when we focus on what was done on the cross. And when we focus on what was done by Jesus' resurrection. And so the evidence for me that God is good is not a circumstance, it's a person. It's a person and it's Jesus that he would come and he, you we have a high priest who has suffered, who can sympathize with everything that we've been through. He suffered, he entered our story. He experienced it all more than we could ever understand. received on himself God's wrath toward all evil. ⁓ And I just love to have people think, OK, we live in such a time of instant gratification. We don't want to wait. It's hard to even wait for a batch of brownies to bake the normal way. We want to do it in the microwave. So it's really hard sometimes to wait until heaven to have this full resolve. But we can look at Jesus, like you said, our hope is in him what he has done, what he continues to do, and what he will do. And the more we focus on him, the more we will experience the supernatural peace and ability to take it another day, one more day. ⁓ Sometimes it's one more hour. David Geisler (35:23) Yes, and when I read the book of Hebrews, I'm so encouraged to realize that Jesus was the perfect sacrifice and the perfect sacrificer because he was without sin and because Jesus is a hundred percent God and a hundred percent man. Teasi Cannon (35:23) but we can keep going. Mm, it's my favorite. David Geisler (35:45) That's why the resurrection is proof that our sins are forgiven because if he wasn't 100 % God and 100 % man, he could not be that atoning sacrifice. And the thing that I think of is if I were God, would I be willing to do that for my creation? Teasi Cannon (35:55) Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. David Geisler (36:08) sure if I would. And so I think about that a bunch because it reminds me of how deep God's love must be for me and not just for me. Teasi Cannon (36:21) Right. David Geisler (36:23) I mean, I don't know about you, that blows me away every time I think about it. And I do think more and more about these things. ⁓ As I get closer to the end of my life, I feel like God, I'm so grateful for all that you did. And if only you had just saved me and that's it. You had not given me blessings, you know, multiplied. Teasi Cannon (36:50) Mm. David Geisler (36:52) And I could tell you for hours all the blessings God has given to me in my life, but if it was just my salvation still be eternally grateful. And I think that's why the apostle Paul could say, I can live with plenty, I can live with little. And he could suffer in any situation. he considered every suffering he went through light and momentary because he knows like, you know, in each of his epistles, he'll say, you know, grace and peace, grace and peace. Teasi Cannon (37:13) Mm-hmm. Yeah. And he also mentions, he shows that he has a great awareness of his depravity, know, what he was saved from, which I am convinced in my own life. And as I look at stories of great heroes of the faith that there is such a strong correlation between the strength of our hope. David Geisler (37:43) Absolutely. Teasi Cannon (38:01) and our understanding of just how little we deserve. I know what I've been saved from. I know what a horrible job I did and would continue to do as the Lord and God of my own life. And the fact that a holy and righteous God would make a way for such a filthy, sin-ridden girl. David Geisler (38:09) Right. Yes. Teasi Cannon (38:25) selfish, self-focused person would make a way for me to be washed clean and reconciled and brought straight into his throne room ⁓ by the blood of Jesus is mind-blowing. what I love too is it's not a crutch. You know, even as we say these things, there's a little voice in the back of my head that says, my gosh, you it sounds so fantastical. It just sounds like such a what a great way of tying a bow around such a horrible picture. But it isn't because and this is why I loop it back again. I know I'm a broken record, but this is why I believe apologetics is such a gift of love from God because here we are clinging our hope grasping on David Geisler (38:52) you Teasi Cannon (39:13) this absolute beautiful way to make sense of reality and God hasn't left us just down a wing and a prayer there. We have the evidence for the resurrection. We have the evidence from textual criticism that helps us to understand that the translations we have today are not produced by the telephone game. We have all of this and it's such a gift. We are so blessed, like you said, and I'd love to ask you this too, based on you sat with this panel of religious. Gurus, know people who should have known the the greatest content that their worldview has to offer and they had nothing when it came to the one simple Answer for human hatred for each other. But what do you when you look around our culture today? Is there a specific ideology? that is screaming loudly at us offering comfort or offering promise but it is absolutely void of anything at the end of the day. Is there a specific one that you think you know listeners might be exposed to that you could shine some light on how it fails compared to the beauty of what God has on offer? David Geisler (40:23) Well, I think that people ⁓ fill their lives with different things. Pascal probably said it best. There's a God-shaped vacuum in the heart of every man, but it can only be fulfilled by God made known through Jesus Christ. And the problem is the world continually fills its heart with success. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (40:35) Mm. Mm-hmm. David Geisler (40:50) you know, how many hits did you get on your Instagram, you know, account or, know, we measure success in a certain way. And God is saying that none of that will last. Teasi Cannon (40:54) Yeah. David Geisler (41:06) only the word of God and the souls of men will last forever. That's it. And so if we know that, okay, if we know that, then what are we doing now to reflect God's priorities and not the world's priorities? And I think that would be the encouragement. that let's not let the suffering in our life keep us from focusing like Paul said on the price, right? To be faithful to what God has called each of us to do, because all of us have been called to do something. You know, the pastors and teachers are to equip the body so that the church, Teasi Cannon (41:39) Right. David Geisler (41:54) can do the work of the ministry. We're supposed to do the work of the ministry, not the pastors. And so we can use suffering to trip us up, to keep us from being all that God wants us to be. And I think we, the devil wants to like have us focus on our trials and circumstances and not focus like the apostle Paul said on the prize. Teasi Cannon (42:22) Right. David Geisler (42:24) Run the race of endurance, not looking behind, but reaching forward to what lies ahead. Paul said, I press on for the goal of the Upward Call of Christ. think we just, need to have that mindset in the midst of all the things that are happening and we need to remind our non-believing friends that all the things that they value in this life, what are you gonna do with that if you can't take it with you in the next life? Teasi Cannon (42:56) Yes. David Geisler (42:57) That's a powerful question. Or sometimes I'll ask the skeptic this question. If you could know the truth, would Teasi Cannon (43:05) Mm-hmm. David Geisler (43:06) because, and then I'll follow up with, sometimes the truth has moral implications that you may not be ready to hear. Teasi Cannon (43:16) Right. Yeah, and it boils down to not wanting to have a God. When I look at it and you really boil it down, if someone had all the evidence, if you could make a substantial case beyond any reasonable doubt that God exists, truth exists, God exists, miracles happen, and that Jesus is God, and know. David Geisler (43:16) You Teasi Cannon (43:41) all those things, if you could offer enough evidence for that and they still wouldn't want it, then it really to me boils down to they want to be God. They don't want to have a God. They don't want to have an authority, a God who's authoritative. over their life. They want to stay on the throne and do it their own way. And God gave us that decision in the garden. I look back and when I read through Genesis at the beginning, it's like God was, and this blows my mind, that the maker of heaven and earth put himself on the table as an option. Will you choose me or not? You know, if you do this one thing, you're not choosing me. You're choosing to be your own God, basically. And that's what I see when they ate the fruit when Adam and Eve David Geisler (44:03) Yes. Yes. Teasi Cannon (44:30) the fruit they were like I think we want to be our own god we want to have all the knowledge we want to know everything and that's the basic decision we all have on a daily basis is you get two options for god either the real one or you because I mean I'm not a worldview expert but when I look at the briefs know survey of the of many of the other options it ultimately comes down to us being responsible for everything including suffering like some of the transcendental religions and ideas is really I am at fault if I could somehow transcend the suffering if I could quit wanting and if I could get rid of all my desires then I would have this piece like it's all on us any other way but I don't know about you David but I am super happy not to be my own god I am really glad I don't have to be the hero of my own story because I was doing a horrible job ⁓ before Jesus saved me from that and you know It's beautiful to have a creator. It's wonderful and safe and secure to have a God who loves us enough to draw us to himself no matter what it takes because we only flourish. We're only truly alive when we're fully connected to him. David Geisler (45:46) Amen, amen, amen. And I just keep these verses in mind when I live my Christian life. Philippians 2.13, Philippians 4.13, and Psalms 103.14. Psalms 103.14 says, God is mindful that we are but dust. We can just do nothing, nothing. But what does Philippians 2.13 say? God can work in us to will and work his good pleasure. Teasi Cannon (46:04) Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. David Geisler (46:15) Philippians 4 13 says, I can do all things through him who gives me strength. So when I'm feeling weak and just everything's feeling bad, I just remind myself that it's the Holy Spirit that empowers me to live the Christian life, to have the right posture, the right perspective about what God has called all of us to do. And I think we just need to remind our listeners that we should focus on those things, and what God has called us to do, and not get tripped up on the evil and suffering that have happened in our life that have devastated us. Teasi Cannon (47:03) I love that. Yeah, and Jesus never required that in his earthly ministry, that people just ignore pain and suffering, and he went through it himself. I love that he didn't ever require his disciples to trust without demonstration. He is about loving us enough to meet us right where we are. so, I can't tell you how encouraged I feel just personally and I really hope that listeners are going to be encouraged. Is there anything else you would want to share before we ⁓ wrap up today just about what you're doing, about where people might find you or about just any final words of encouragement for listeners? David Geisler (47:48) So I want to share this story about Naomi Wolf because I think it will encourage our listeners to realize that all that we've gone through in the last few years, all the evil and suffering of COVID and everything that goes with that, ⁓ that God still has a plan. about a year ago, I read this blog from Naomi Wolf. She's a secular, not a Christian as far as I know yet. Jewish writer and she wrote about how she has seen so much evil during COVID and suffering that she didn't think it could be just of human origin. It's got to be more than that and so she's starting to pray every day and read her Bible. Teasi Cannon (48:37) That's amazing. David Geisler (48:38) And I'm hearing more and more stories like that, that through the suffering that has happened to all of us around the globe in the last few years, that God is using this, I think, to bring a revival around our globe. I think it's coming. TC, I really do. And I am excited. You know, I'm excited and. Teasi Cannon (49:02) Yeah. David Geisler (49:04) I just encourage our listeners just to be listening to what the Holy Spirit says to them in their circle of influence. You know, my father was illiterate till he was 17 practically and he went on to do all these great things, but he wasn't qualified to do what God had called him to do. I'm not qualified to do what God has called me to do, but I'm... Teasi Cannon (49:17) Crazy, so crazy. David Geisler (49:29) trying to be obedient and we need to remind our listeners to be obedient to whatever God is calling us to do in these last days that we live. Teasi Cannon (49:41) That's amazing. That is such a good word and We show God we love him by our obedience. That's what Jesus said. We show him by obeying his commandments and trusting him. And so I wanna thank you again, David, so much. know I could just sit and listen to you for hours and hours more. So maybe I'll ask you to come back again sometime. ⁓ if you listeners, thank you for joining us. If you have been blessed, encouraged, you know someone who would benefit from hearing this kind of substantive encouragement. it if you would share it and also please check out the show notes for information on how to find David's ministry and the resources that can get you started in your own studies if you've never studied apologetics or ⁓ just learning how to evangelize discipleship those things. I'll put that in the show notes and please consider subscribing so that you won't miss a moment of true comfort. Thank you so much.