Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Opposition spokesperson Chancey Peach, comments on the independent review into the Northern Territory's Department of Children and Families, following the tragic death of Kumanjayi Little Baby and he shares his opinion on Public Housing.

Transcript

Opposition spokesperson Chancey Peach, comments on the independent review into the Northern Territory's Department of Children and Families, following the tragic death of Kumanjayi Little Baby and he shares his opinion on Public Housing. · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: You are listening to 360. It's just on a quarter
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: past nine. Now, there is a lot to cover off
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  Speaker 1: on this morning, but we know that Parliament is back
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  Speaker 1: underway for a second week, so no doubt it's going
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  Speaker 1: to be incredibly busy with an independent review into the
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  Speaker 1: Northern Territory's Department of Children and Families following the tragic
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  Speaker 1: death of Kumunjai little baby set to be tabled. Children
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  Speaker 1: and Families Minister Robin Carl has told News24 the review
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  Speaker 1: by former New South Wales Police Commissioner Karen Webb and
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  Speaker 1: long-time NT public servant Greg Shanahan would prompt significant reform
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  Speaker 1: of the child protection system. Now, she said, I think
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  Speaker 1: there's been significant issues around how things have been done
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  Speaker 1: in the past. I think the leadership from ministerial level
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  Speaker 1: in the past has been lacking and the result of
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  Speaker 1: that is that the department have really been struggling to
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  Speaker 1: know what it is they should be doing. She went
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  Speaker 1: on to tell Matt Cunningham that it is not an
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  Speaker 1: isolated incident and And there very much is a systemic
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  Speaker 1: issue in the way in which child protection legislation has
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  Speaker 1: been applied. Now, joining us on the line is the
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  Speaker 1: opposition's Chansey Paik. Good morning to you, Chansey.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie. How are you?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, really good. Great to have you on the show. Now,
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  Speaker 1: we know that this report is expected to be handed
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  Speaker 1: down today. It is being reported by News 24 that
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  Speaker 1: Minister Robin Carl has said that this situation with Kumunjai
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  Speaker 1: Little Baby is not an isolated incident and they're very
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  Speaker 1: much is a systemic issue in the way in which
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  Speaker 1: child protection legislation is being applied. Chansey, what are you
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  Speaker 1: expecting from this report today?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, look, Katie, we've been told that the Minister will
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  Speaker 2: table the report this morning at 10 o'clock and there's
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  Speaker 2: a series of recommendations in it. So we'll work through
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  Speaker 2: and look at those recommendations today and see what they're
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  Speaker 2: being proposed. I think absolutely the safety of Territory children
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  Speaker 2: has always been a paramount consideration. So we'll look at
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  Speaker 2: those recommendations as the opposition. We'll hear what the government
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  Speaker 2: have to say around what they're committing to and the
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  Speaker 2: timelines that they're looking to introduce those measures. But I
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  Speaker 2: think really important here in this particular instance is it's
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  Speaker 2: not just the child protection system that failed this child.
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  Speaker 2: The alleged... The, you know, instances surrounding that were predominantly
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  Speaker 2: around a failed correction system. You know, someone being released
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  Speaker 2: with no housing, no transport, no job, no money. So
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  Speaker 2: there are bigger picture considerations here as well to how
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  Speaker 2: we reform the entire system.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. I think that this is,
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  Speaker 1: you know, this is going to be something that I
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  Speaker 1: hope is a watershed moment, really, for the Northern Territory
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  Speaker 1: in terms of keeping our little ones safe. and making
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  Speaker 1: sure that this doesn't happen again. I know that that's
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  Speaker 1: always the intention when we see reports like this. And
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  Speaker 1: it's hard for us to know because neither of us
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  Speaker 1: have seen it. But can I ask you, I know
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  Speaker 1: that the Minister has already flagged that, you know, that
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  Speaker 1: this is very much a systemic issue in the way
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  Speaker 1: in which child protection legislation has been applied. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: do you acknowledge that over the years, even when Labor
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  Speaker 1: was in power, that you know, that maybe there was
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  Speaker 1: a deterioration and that things have become worse?
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  Speaker 2: Look, Katie, today at 10, when that report is tabled,
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  Speaker 2: we'll work through it. We are absolutely open to working
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  Speaker 2: with the government where there is clear evidence and there
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  Speaker 2: is clear research from victim survivors, from child protection workers
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  Speaker 2: and people who have been interviewed throughout this process. to
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  Speaker 2: show us where there is the case to actually change
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  Speaker 2: and reform. We're open to working with the government, but
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  Speaker 2: until we see that report, we can't make that commitment.
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  Speaker 2: But look, absolutely, child protection is a difficult space to
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  Speaker 2: work in and to deliver. So we want to make
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  Speaker 2: sure that what we come up with is the best
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  Speaker 2: approach for Territory kids. So willing to have that conversation
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  Speaker 2: with the government, really looking forward to looking at this
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  Speaker 2: report and just seeing who was consulted as part of
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  Speaker 2: this report.
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  Speaker 1: Well, no doubt we'll get some further details within the
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  Speaker 1: next sort of 45 minutes. Chancey, I do want to
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  Speaker 1: ask you about this new three-strike system that was announced
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  Speaker 1: yesterday for antisocial behaviour in Northern Territory public housing. Under
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  Speaker 1: this policy, minor breaches attract one strike, moderate breaches two,
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  Speaker 1: and significant breaches attract three. The Housing Minister, Steve Edgington,
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  Speaker 1: says that this system is going to ensure that repeat
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  Speaker 1: offenders face consequences with tenants given an opportunity to respond
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  Speaker 1: to allegations before decisions are made. What do you make
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  Speaker 1: of this? Do you support it?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, Katie, three strikes to nowhere. That's the CLP's latest
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  Speaker 2: policy position. I think you know, three strikes to nowhere,
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  Speaker 2: that's a recipe for homelessness. So what's the fourth step?
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  Speaker 2: Where's the support? Where's the plan?
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  Speaker 1: What do you do then? Do you just sort of
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  Speaker 1: let people keep doing the wrong thing? Because we often
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  Speaker 1: get phone calls from listeners who, you know, live nearby
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  Speaker 1: to a public housing tenant that they, you know, allege
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  Speaker 1: is dealing drugs from their home that they are given
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  Speaker 1: the privilege of living in, or they allege that, you know,
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  Speaker 1: there is various sort of bad behaviour. And I've heard, like,
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  Speaker 1: I've heard some pretty bad, you know, horror stories. So
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  Speaker 1: what do you think we do? Just let them languish?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, nah, Katie. I mean, look, look, I get what
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  Speaker 2: you're saying. My own family, you know, live near public housing.
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  Speaker 2: Some of them have had great tenants. Some of them have,
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  Speaker 2: you know, dealt with some really difficult situations. And I
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  Speaker 2: want to be absolutely clear that Every Territorian deserves to
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  Speaker 2: feel safe in their home, in their street and in
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  Speaker 2: their community. And I'm not defending violence or intimidation or
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  Speaker 2: antisocial behaviour. There has to be accountability and a consequence. But, Katie,
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  Speaker 2: when we evict people, where do they go? They're going
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  Speaker 2: to be in the park in Karama. They're going to
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  Speaker 2: be in the footpath. They're going to be sleeping rough
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  Speaker 2: in the park across the road from your studio because
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  Speaker 2: they've got nowhere else to go. You've got a Chief
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  Speaker 2: Minister rolling out talking big and acting mad, saying that
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  Speaker 2: they all can go to Bachelor. There's 100 beds in
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  Speaker 2: Bachelor and there are 6,000 public housing properties in Darwin.
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  Speaker 2: So unless they're going to be building up Bachelor, we're
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  Speaker 2: going to have more people on the streets and that's
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  Speaker 2: thanks to the CLP.
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  Speaker 1: And the other part of it is the people of Bachelor,
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  Speaker 1: like the people of Bachelor do not want residents out
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  Speaker 1: there that have been evicted from public housing. I guess
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  Speaker 1: it's a different story with... You know, some of those
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  Speaker 1: Yissa residents out there, but even that, I know that
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  Speaker 1: some of those Bachelor residents are really concerned about the
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  Speaker 1: potential impact.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, and I mean, they should, the poor buggers.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, people in Bachelor are saying, what have we done?
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  Speaker 2: You know, like, you're not actually addressing any solution. You're
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  Speaker 2: just kicking people out of one spot and moving them
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  Speaker 2: to another. Katie, what I think the big issue is here,
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  Speaker 2: and every government is guilty of it, and we need
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  Speaker 2: to all do better, is we need to have more
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  Speaker 2: tenancy housing offices. in the department. I heard yesterday just,
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  Speaker 2: you know, having a yarn with some of the housing people,
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  Speaker 2: caseloads of 250 houses per staff member. How the hell
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  Speaker 2: can you manage an effective tenancy? And how can you
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  Speaker 2: keep on top of people to do the right thing
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  Speaker 2: when you've got 250, 60, 70 houses to manage? So
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  Speaker 2: if you have less caseloads, you've got more tenancy officers,
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  Speaker 2: they can get in early. Hey, you mob, You've got
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  Speaker 2: to clean up your house. Hey, you guys, you've done
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  Speaker 2: the wrong thing. We're going to have to, you know,
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  Speaker 2: look at fixing this up and doing that there. That's
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  Speaker 2: what we need to see. But what we're not seeing
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  Speaker 2: under this, Katie, you know, at 10 o'clock we've got
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  Speaker 2: the child protection minister coming in tabling a report. Well,
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  Speaker 2: I want to know what's happening to children when a
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  Speaker 2: tenancy is terminated. What are we doing to make them safe?
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  Speaker 2: We're going to let them be homeless. That's what the
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  Speaker 2: CLP are doing.
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  Speaker 1: We are going to catch up with Steve Edgington, the
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  Speaker 1: Housing Minister, in a few minutes' time. But, Chancey, I
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  Speaker 1: want to make it really... Like, I want to ask
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  Speaker 1: you really clearly, because we're getting quite a bit of
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  Speaker 1: pushback on the text line this morning. Jay has said, Katie,
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  Speaker 1: can you ask Chancey why he's not calling out, then,
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  Speaker 1: bad behaviour in public housing and why he doesn't challenge
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  Speaker 1: people to do better? We've had a gutful of the
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  Speaker 1: poor bugger me rhetoric and we want people to be
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  Speaker 1: held to account.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, look, Katie, I don't live in Darwin. I live
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  Speaker 2: in Alice. And I can tell you right now, I'm
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  Speaker 2: always reporting people who are doing the wrong thing. And absolutely,
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  Speaker 2: I tell people that they need to get in and
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  Speaker 2: look after their house and maintain a healthy home and
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  Speaker 2: a sustainable tenancy. Last year, earlier this year, I was
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  Speaker 2: calling on the CLP to resource staff so that they
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  Speaker 2: could get out, make sure that public housing was tidy,
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  Speaker 2: it was clean, it was habitable. Because you know what, Katie? Well,
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  Speaker 2: we've got... houses that are not maintained and looked after,
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  Speaker 2: it just ruins the whole amenity for the street. We
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  Speaker 2: need to make sure that people have pride in their place. Well,
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  Speaker 2: but people who have.
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  Speaker 1: The privilege of having a public housing residency need to
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  Speaker 1: look after them and the majority do. But if you're not,
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  Speaker 1: you know, surely there needs to be a consequence to that.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know that the three-strike policy is going to work.
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  Speaker 1: But I guess, Chansey, people listening this morning are going
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  Speaker 1: to think, mate, you guys were so soft with some
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  Speaker 1: of these issues that it's deteriorated to the point that
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  Speaker 1: it is.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, look, Annie, I can accept criticism 100%. I'm not
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  Speaker 2: afraid to do that. But what I will say is
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  Speaker 2: a three-strike policy and evicting vulnerable people or kids or
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  Speaker 2: elders is not the solution because then people are going
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  Speaker 2: to turn around and be unhappy when the number of
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  Speaker 2: people homeless in our parks, in our streets, in our
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  Speaker 2: shopping centres increases because they've been kicked out. You don't
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  Speaker 2: fix this issue by making people homeless. We need to
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  Speaker 2: be fair, absolutely. We need to have consequences, absolutely. But
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  Speaker 2: we need to have the staff involved in the agency
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  Speaker 2: that aren't managing 250 homes per staff member. Less of
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  Speaker 2: that means people can get in early and try and
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  Speaker 2: turn things around before they get to a state that
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  Speaker 2: is uncontrollable.
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  Speaker 1: Chancey, a couple of other things I just want to
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  Speaker 1: cover off with you this morning. First off, well, we
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  Speaker 1: know these hyperscale data centres. I know that you guys
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  Speaker 1: are now saying that you want a moratorium on these
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  Speaker 1: rather than just a review into them. Is it a
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  Speaker 1: bit hypocritical given the fact that you guys approved the
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  Speaker 1: data centres that we've already got?
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  Speaker 2: No, not at all, Katie. I mean, at the end
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  Speaker 2: of the day, data centres, we all use data centres.
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  Speaker 2: We rely on them every day. That's the small scale.
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  Speaker 2: What we're calling for is a considered approach, inquiries and
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  Speaker 2: moratorium on hyperscale data centres. These are the big unknowns
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  Speaker 2: that we've never had in the Territory before.
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  Speaker 1: So you don't think it's hypocritical that you guys allowed
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  Speaker 1: some smaller, like the smaller ones, but you don't think
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  Speaker 1: that now we should have larger ones in the Territory,
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  Speaker 1: even if there are strict regulations in place?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, look, we absolutely support regulation, but, Katie, a small-scale
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  Speaker 2: data centre in an industrial area in Darwin compared to
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  Speaker 2: a hyperscale data centre that uses astronomical amounts of water,
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  Speaker 2: power and impinges on the amenity... needs to have a
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  Speaker 2: considered approach. That needs an inquiry and Territorians need to
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  Speaker 2: be able to have a say and shape what that
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  Speaker 2: looks like. So an inquiry or a moratorium?
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  Speaker 1: An inquiry or a moratorium?
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  Speaker 2: Well, you've got to have both, Katie. If you have
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  Speaker 2: a moratorium and you don't have an inquiry, what's the point?
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  Speaker 2: You've got to have a moratorium to put a hold
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  Speaker 2: on things while you have an inquiry to inform you
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  Speaker 2: if you can do something, how you can do it best.
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  Speaker 1: All right, before I let you go this morning, I
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  Speaker 1: just want to talk about this terrible situation out of Victoria.
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  Speaker 1: We know the federal MP, Helen Haynes, is fighting for
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: life after being struck by a car outside her electoral
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  Speaker 1: office in the main street of Wangaratta yesterday with police
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: probing whether it was a deliberate and possibly politically motivated attack. Now, Chancey,
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  Speaker 1: over the years, we've seen some pretty horrible stuff. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: nothing to this horrific degree. But I said it in
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: the opener, you know, we've seen somebody attack Natasha Files
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  Speaker 1: at the Nightcliff markets. You know, I remember having to
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  Speaker 1: get in contact with the Chief Minister's office after there
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  Speaker 1: were people chanting the former Chief Minister Michael Gunner's address
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  Speaker 1: at a rally. I don't think any of that is
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  Speaker 1: acceptable behaviour, but this is just next level, isn't it?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, Katie, what we witnessed yesterday or last night
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  Speaker 2: was truly horrendous. And I mean, we have people in
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  Speaker 2: office and whether you support their position or not does
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  Speaker 2: not mean that you should be able to incite physical
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  Speaker 2: and verbal violence on someone. We are seeing an escalation
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  Speaker 2: of this type of behaviour and it's eroding our democratic
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  Speaker 2: institutions because We're going to actually have less people willing
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  Speaker 2: to put their hand up and stand up for their
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: community because of this. And you know what, Katie? This
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  Speaker 2: is not Australian. People who do that are un-Australian. We
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: are not America, and I do never want us to
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: go down that avenue where we do. And when we
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: start having to lock electorate offices and lock people out
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  Speaker 2: of access to their local member for fear of safety concerns,
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  Speaker 2: that's not a country that I want to live in. So...
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  Speaker 2: We all have to work in this space to, you know,
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  Speaker 2: combat and stamp out this disgusting level of violence, of intimidation. Because,
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  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, look, I don't care what side
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: of the political fence you sit on. We all have
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: to make sure that everyone has a right to go
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  Speaker 2: to work and do their job safely. And I think
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  Speaker 2: that we need to really come together and stamp out
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  Speaker 2: this radicalisation that is happening in our country.
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  Speaker 1: Chancey Paik, always appreciate your time. And look, I can say,
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  Speaker 1: you know, you and I don't agree on things from
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: time to time, but I actually think that's a really
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: important thing in life and certainly within the media that
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: we all need to have differing opinions and you've got
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: to enable people to have those.
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  Speaker 2: I think, Katie, absolutely. I mean, look, You can give
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: me a bit of shit, but I still love you
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  Speaker 2: at the end of the day. But, you know, I
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: think that's what's happened. We haven't been able to respectfully
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: have conversations and agree to disagree, and that's what's dividing
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: the country. I think we can always have differing views,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: but we just need to do it respectfully.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Spot on. Chancey Pate, good to speak with you this morning.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: I'll let you go. We're about to catch up with
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: the Housing Minister. Thank you for your time.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: No worries, matey. Take care. Thank you.