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The Favorites - History Of Betting The Pope · The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites of the podcast part of the
0:11
Speaker 1: Volume and Podcast Network. I am Chad Milman of the
0:14
Speaker 1: Action Network. Today. I'm joined as always by my co host,
0:18
Speaker 1: my companion, my campadre might be a ff professional better,
0:22
Speaker 1: Simon Hunter Rosimon.
0:24
Speaker 2: Hello, Chad, how are we doing?
0:26
Speaker 1: I am so psyched for today's episode, which came together
0:31
Speaker 1: quickly because it's very rare that you get an opportunity
0:37
Speaker 1: in which the entire world's attention is on a singular event,
0:42
Speaker 1: in this case, electing the new Pope and the conclave
0:46
Speaker 1: that is happening right now, and it also happens to
0:50
Speaker 1: coincide with a massive, worldwide, historic betting market. But that's
0:59
Speaker 1: what we have today right now, the biggest betting event
1:03
Speaker 1: in the world is trying to figure out how you
1:05
Speaker 1: can make money off of who is going to be
1:08
Speaker 1: the next pope. And by the way, this goes back
1:12
Speaker 1: five centuries. People have been betting on who will be
1:16
Speaker 1: the next pope, going back to the early fifteen hundreds.
1:21
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to discuss this with you, Simon and
1:27
Speaker 1: have everybody find out what your confirmation name was. But
1:35
Speaker 1: we're going to bring in our guests because it is
1:39
Speaker 1: incredibly difficult to really understand and handicap who the next
1:44
Speaker 1: Pope is going to be? So our very own Judas,
1:51
Speaker 1: a man who walked away from action, joined the Ringer
1:56
Speaker 1: and today has a fantastic story up on the Ringer
2:00
Speaker 1: called who Wants the Smoke? Trying to predict the unpredictable
2:05
Speaker 1: Papal Conclave. A man who calls himself the Holy Trinity
2:13
Speaker 1: of Italian, American, Catholic and Gambler. Welcome back to the show,
2:19
Speaker 1: Anthony de Bundo.
2:22
Speaker 3: I'll be honest, I did not expect to be called
2:24
Speaker 3: back to talk about the Papal conclave. And if you
2:26
Speaker 3: had told me that two weeks ago, even four days ago,
2:30
Speaker 3: I probably would have laughed at you. But I'm happy
2:32
Speaker 3: to be here, excited to break down this incredible event
2:35
Speaker 3: that really we only get a handful of times in
2:37
Speaker 3: our entire lives.
2:39
Speaker 1: This is only the This is probably the second one
2:42
Speaker 1: for you, and thirdnman, third, right, third one. So I
2:47
Speaker 1: guess this would be the fourth one for me because
2:50
Speaker 1: I was alive when John Paul the Second got the gig,
2:55
Speaker 1: and then Benedict, and then Francis and now whoever will
2:59
Speaker 1: be next, which we're going to determine today. I'm super
3:03
Speaker 1: excited because I did not know this until we came
3:06
Speaker 1: on the air. Anthony Catholic, Simon Catholic, Matt Mitchell went
3:13
Speaker 1: to Catholic school. Gif for Gould, producer went to Catholic school.
3:20
Speaker 1: One Jew on this show who does not really know
3:23
Speaker 1: anything about Catholicism. So I'm excited to get educated as
3:27
Speaker 1: we talk about this. By the way, don't forget everybody
3:31
Speaker 1: at Real Chad Millman. Go subscribe. Find lots of content
3:36
Speaker 1: there from the show. Other stuff gambling history of which
3:41
Speaker 1: this is a core part. You can wager on who
3:47
Speaker 1: the next Pope will be, and a number of unregulated
3:52
Speaker 1: offshore sports books. We like to keep things legal and
3:56
Speaker 1: above board. On this show, we're going to be referencing Calshi,
4:01
Speaker 1: a prediction market that is legal in all fifty US states,
4:06
Speaker 1: election betting, fed rate betting, basketball trading. They call it trading.
4:14
Speaker 1: They don't call it betting, but they actually allow you
4:18
Speaker 1: to buy and sell positions on practically everything newsworthy, from
4:22
Speaker 1: pop culture and news headlines to multiple markets related to
4:25
Speaker 1: the announcement of the next Pope. If you haven't signed
4:28
Speaker 1: up for Calshi yet, use code action at sign up
4:33
Speaker 1: for a ten dollars bonus. Link to do that quickly
4:38
Speaker 1: and easily is in the description build some papal positions.
4:43
Speaker 1: All right, before we even get to it, let's define
4:49
Speaker 1: your Catholic bona fides here, because we don't want people
4:52
Speaker 1: to think you're being sacrilegious or inauthentic. Signon, tell us
4:58
Speaker 1: how good a Catholic you really?
5:01
Speaker 2: I was not a good Catholic in any sense of
5:04
Speaker 2: the word, but I've been. I started going to church
5:06
Speaker 2: like any good nineties family. My parents made me, my
5:09
Speaker 2: three brothers go to church from I want to say,
5:11
Speaker 2: pre k like they would stick me in this like
5:13
Speaker 2: Sunday classroom until seventh eighth grade until I got my
5:17
Speaker 2: confirmation brother. So I went to Sunday Mass for I
5:21
Speaker 2: don't know ten straight years, which looking back is insane
5:24
Speaker 2: that this is before cell phones or anything. You just
5:26
Speaker 2: stick some kids on a wooden bench and just being
5:29
Speaker 2: the most boring place in the world for an hour
5:32
Speaker 2: while people just sing around you. So God, God bless
5:34
Speaker 2: my parents. But yeah, I got a confirmation name. My
5:37
Speaker 2: name is in Saint chach Is. British people old fashioned.
5:41
Speaker 2: You used to have two middle names. So my full
5:43
Speaker 2: name with my Hunter as last name is Simon Edward
5:48
Speaker 2: Thomas Damien Hunter. So Damien is my confirmation name. There
5:53
Speaker 2: is a Saint Damien out there, and as a little
5:56
Speaker 2: shitthead seventh grader, I made that my confirmation name to
5:59
Speaker 2: get back in my teacher who just God bless this
6:02
Speaker 2: woman just would just absolutely hated me. Her name was
6:05
Speaker 2: missus Dickerson. I don't know if she's still around, but
6:08
Speaker 2: obviously with that last name and me being a little
6:10
Speaker 2: smart ass, it was it was a long eight years
6:13
Speaker 2: of having me and her CCD classes. So yeah, been
6:16
Speaker 2: a Catholic and still to this day. You know, we
6:19
Speaker 2: still go to the Sunday Mass. Like there's two I
6:23
Speaker 2: would say, people like me who are fake religious people
6:25
Speaker 2: say Catholics we go to Sunday Mass and Easter Sunday.
6:30
Speaker 2: Probably haven't been chatting about eight ten years, I'm gonna know,
6:34
Speaker 2: but I have, I have had said them, did that
6:38
Speaker 2: someday I might get married and I might have a wife.
6:39
Speaker 2: That's like we gotta go. So if I meeting nice Jew,
6:42
Speaker 2: I'll go to temple. If not, I'll probably back in
6:45
Speaker 2: the church. So I'm trying to hold out as long
6:47
Speaker 2: as I can till I have to go back.
6:49
Speaker 1: Brother by the way, says I got to Philly guys
6:54
Speaker 1: with me today. One of my favorite always Sunnies. I
7:00
Speaker 1: think it's season one. It's like episode it could be
7:02
Speaker 1: episode three, four or five, whatever, almost an entire episode
7:06
Speaker 1: about whether or not you can say the word Jew
7:11
Speaker 1: or if like all of a sudden that becomes anti Semitic,
7:16
Speaker 1: which was just a classic classic episode. All right, debundo,
7:21
Speaker 1: give us your Catholic bona fides, so we know that
7:24
Speaker 1: none of us are going to hell. We come to
7:25
Speaker 1: this from an honest, proactive, fatable, positive place.
7:30
Speaker 4: Debatable. I you know, it's definitely not.
7:34
Speaker 3: It's frowned upon by some in the Catholic Church to
7:36
Speaker 3: bet on anything, but especially the papal outcome. But yeah,
7:39
Speaker 3: I went to Catholic school in kindergarten, went to public
7:42
Speaker 3: school for the rest of my education, but I was
7:44
Speaker 3: an altar boy for a few years in kind of.
7:47
Speaker 4: I think it was like sixth and seventh grade.
7:49
Speaker 3: I made my confirmation, all the sacraments of my communion,
7:52
Speaker 3: and you know, maybe one day we'll see I'll get
7:54
Speaker 3: married in the Catholic Church.
7:55
Speaker 4: But it's a part of my family.
7:57
Speaker 3: It's not a huge part of my family, and so
7:59
Speaker 3: it's something that that kind of comes and goes. My Catholicism.
8:02
Speaker 3: Definitely have my fair share of issues with the Church.
8:04
Speaker 3: We won't get into, but I think that it is
8:07
Speaker 3: a fascinating experience to grow up a Catholic.
8:10
Speaker 1: Well, in the Bible, I believe it says in some
8:15
Speaker 1: form I might be paraphrasing here, money is the root
8:18
Speaker 1: of all evil? Am I correct?
8:22
Speaker 4: Yes, voice correct technically?
8:25
Speaker 1: So what are we doing here? I feel like we're
8:27
Speaker 1: just we're raised.
8:28
Speaker 4: It's not even about money, it's about raising mistakes.
8:30
Speaker 1: I'm going to hell.
8:32
Speaker 4: That is true.
8:33
Speaker 3: We would have been ext communicated from the church for
8:36
Speaker 3: this if we did it for a period of about
8:38
Speaker 3: three hundred and twenty years.
8:40
Speaker 1: Well, thank god, whatever Pope decided it was okay. Has
8:44
Speaker 1: modernized the times. And that's really what we're here to
8:47
Speaker 1: talk about today. Will the conclave, Will the cardinals when
8:53
Speaker 1: the white smoke billows have chosen a pope who is
8:57
Speaker 1: along the progressive and liberal lane that Francis has been
9:03
Speaker 1: on during he had been on during his reign, which
9:06
Speaker 1: was what twelve years, will they go more conservative Anthony
9:11
Speaker 1: before we even get into that. Your story's great, What
9:14
Speaker 1: did you learn about the history of betting on the
9:19
Speaker 1: pope that makes us feel better about this?
9:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it starts and as early as we can tell,
9:27
Speaker 3: dates back to fifteen oh three. So in Rome when
9:29
Speaker 3: they were choosing the new pope, kind of like if
9:32
Speaker 3: you saw the movie Gladiator two, where in the movie
9:35
Speaker 3: they're like horse trading on the street, betting on who
9:37
Speaker 3: they think that the winner of the Gladiators games are
9:39
Speaker 3: going to be. It's similar to that, and that it
9:42
Speaker 3: was kind of how betting worked, where you could have
9:44
Speaker 3: brokers and Roman banking houses that would take bets on
9:47
Speaker 3: who the next quote was going to be. And you know,
9:49
Speaker 3: back then it was just always a much smaller process.
9:53
Speaker 3: It wasn't the same you know, massive conclave that they
9:57
Speaker 3: have now super secretive. The oath of secrecy has become
10:01
Speaker 3: a newer thing, and so back then, I'm sure there
10:03
Speaker 3: was a lot of insider trading. There was a lot
10:05
Speaker 3: of who knew a guy who knew a guy who
10:07
Speaker 3: knew a guy's cousin. But basically the church decided we
10:12
Speaker 3: really don't want this, because in fifteen ninety one they
10:16
Speaker 3: said we don't want anybody betting on this, So we
10:19
Speaker 3: are now saying you are excommunicated from the church if
10:24
Speaker 3: you decide you're gonna bet on the pope. But they
10:28
Speaker 3: lifted it in nineteen eighteen, so we're back.
10:32
Speaker 1: Technically, we're back, baby, But the reality is that it
10:35
Speaker 1: kind of one and ten years of betting on this pope,
10:39
Speaker 1: but it.
10:39
Speaker 3: Never really left because you can go back to nineteen
10:41
Speaker 3: oh three, the Italian government was offering bets on when
10:44
Speaker 3: the sick Pope Leo the thirteenth would die, so you
10:47
Speaker 3: can literally bet on like will this guy live for
10:50
Speaker 3: X amount of time? So clearly like betting on pope
10:52
Speaker 3: outcomes is something that even when the Church didn't like
10:55
Speaker 3: it, it was still happening regardless, which is similar to you
10:58
Speaker 3: know how betting works on sports in America, right, It
11:00
Speaker 3: happened long before it became legal, but now we just
11:02
Speaker 3: get to talk about it more openly.
11:04
Speaker 1: It doesn't go away, it just happens somewhere else. That's
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Speaker 1: really the gist of the story for betting. Just about
11:11
Speaker 1: every other device that has ever been that anyone has
11:14
Speaker 1: ever tried to legislate, eradicate, or control, it's just going
11:21
Speaker 1: to happen, water finds a crack, that's just how it goes. Simon,
11:25
Speaker 1: give us your take. Is there a wise guy market
11:29
Speaker 1: that you're hearing about amongst all your scumbag Philly friends
11:35
Speaker 1: that is going on for the pope right now?
11:38
Speaker 2: Unfortunately I have not if those tax messages I'm being
11:41
Speaker 2: left out of. Like I've heard a little bit about
11:43
Speaker 2: it in some chatter, but that's honestly in my own
11:46
Speaker 2: personal life, not from better. So, like we just talked about,
11:50
Speaker 2: this is a market that is real, but I don't
11:52
Speaker 2: think it's one that, like you know, pros dedicate their
11:55
Speaker 2: lives too, because like we just said, it's once in
11:58
Speaker 2: every twelve years, could be once every twenty five five years.
12:00
Speaker 2: It's just such a niche market. But you know me, chat,
12:04
Speaker 2: I'll bet on anything. I've done deadpools before, so like
12:06
Speaker 2: this is nothing to me. And question for anything though,
12:10
Speaker 2: is you know, being on the East Coast, what time
12:14
Speaker 2: do they burn the paper? Like is it one o'clock,
12:16
Speaker 2: two o'clock East coast? Like when do that? When does
12:19
Speaker 2: the smoke happen? Is that just a random time every
12:21
Speaker 2: day or is it a set time that they burn?
12:23
Speaker 2: And let us know the black smoke or the white smoke.
12:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they have the first day, which was Wednesday,
12:30
Speaker 3: first day the conclave. They gather in the evening and
12:32
Speaker 3: they have the first vote, so the first vote already happened.
12:35
Speaker 3: As of now, we're recording this Thursday morning. The first
12:38
Speaker 3: vote already happened and it was black smoke. So no
12:41
Speaker 3: new pope, no two thirds majority. The second day and
12:44
Speaker 3: every day they're off after So starting on Thursday, there
12:47
Speaker 3: will be four votes per day, two in the morning,
12:50
Speaker 3: so they've already happened. We're recording this eleven am. It's
12:52
Speaker 3: five pm in Rome. They've already had the two morning votes.
12:54
Speaker 3: Then they'll have the evening votes if necessary. Then after
12:57
Speaker 3: the fourth round of voting they break for the day.
12:59
Speaker 3: They come back the third day. So we don't know
13:02
Speaker 3: when the smoke will turn white, but it could be
13:04
Speaker 3: as early as tonight as this afternoon really, because it'll
13:07
Speaker 3: be around three four o'clock PM Eastern, which was yesterday.
13:11
Speaker 3: It was three pm Eastern that they put out the
13:13
Speaker 3: black smoke. I suspect it'll be around the same time
13:15
Speaker 3: again today, So around three four o'clock Eastern you'll get
13:18
Speaker 3: the smoke.
13:19
Speaker 2: So your advice to people listen to this would be
13:21
Speaker 2: whatever you give out here, try to get to this
13:23
Speaker 2: market attack and now, because it could happen literally today.
13:26
Speaker 4: Pope Francis was elected on the second day.
13:28
Speaker 3: Oh, traditionally it's been longer, but it's gotten shorter as
13:32
Speaker 3: time has gone on.
13:33
Speaker 4: So usually it's like three or four days.
13:34
Speaker 3: You have to remember, like you're being sequestered, right, So
13:36
Speaker 3: these cardinals, as much as the sacred process, they don't.
13:39
Speaker 4: Want to be sitting in the conclave.
13:41
Speaker 3: You know, there was a joke about how they're raw
13:43
Speaker 3: dogging it without their phones, Like they don't want to
13:45
Speaker 3: be doing this for months on end, weeks on end.
13:47
Speaker 3: They want to get to the solution as well, so
13:50
Speaker 3: or doing the.
13:50
Speaker 2: One thing we know they're not doing is checking Instagram
13:54
Speaker 2: because their devices all I believe the kids.
13:56
Speaker 4: I believe the kids call it raw dogging it.
13:58
Speaker 3: If you're going to go through a long period of
14:00
Speaker 3: time with no electronic device.
14:01
Speaker 1: Yeah right, well they're of a certain age. Yeah it's
14:06
Speaker 1: not sixteen hundred. There's other things to do.
14:08
Speaker 2: Now.
14:09
Speaker 1: I want to explain a little bit at what Calshi
14:11
Speaker 1: is so people understand when you're going to play on
14:14
Speaker 1: the platform. What you're really doing. It's essentially a trading platform,
14:18
Speaker 1: and you're trading what are called contracts. You're buying and selling.
14:22
Speaker 1: You're making a bit on a price on a market,
14:26
Speaker 1: you're selling a market. That's how you're operating on these platforms.
14:31
Speaker 1: I think they're fascinating. I think it's the direction a
14:34
Speaker 1: lot of this is going. Everyone should go and check
14:37
Speaker 1: it out. I've played with it a ton, and you know,
14:40
Speaker 1: for the book that I've talked about on the show.
14:43
Speaker 1: I think prediction markets over the next two to three
14:46
Speaker 1: years are going to become more and more influential. I
14:50
Speaker 1: have no doubts that, especially when we get to a
14:53
Speaker 1: twenty twenty eight presidential election. There are analysts on the
14:58
Speaker 1: desks for all the major broadcasts that are looking at
15:05
Speaker 1: what is happening in the election. From the perspective of
15:08
Speaker 1: the prediction markets, it's a great source of truth on
15:11
Speaker 1: what people with actual money on the line are doing.
15:14
Speaker 1: It cleans up I think a lot of the noise
15:16
Speaker 1: from the polling data that is becoming less and less
15:20
Speaker 1: accurate and reliable. So I'm a huge fan of what
15:23
Speaker 1: these platforms are doing. They are now offering a lot
15:27
Speaker 1: of different markets in sports. But like I said, you'll go,
15:30
Speaker 1: you'll check it out. You'll see the Pope, You'll see
15:32
Speaker 1: what's the Fed gonna do. You can see markets about
15:35
Speaker 1: what Elon Musk is going to do. You can see
15:37
Speaker 1: markets about Tesla. It's like any market that anyone has
15:40
Speaker 1: a decision on or an opinion on, can be posted
15:43
Speaker 1: and then bought and sold. It's really really fascinating. So Anthony,
15:49
Speaker 1: in your story, explain how the makeup of the cardinals
15:55
Speaker 1: has changed during Francis's time, because I do you think
16:00
Speaker 1: that's going to have a huge impact on how voting
16:04
Speaker 1: may play out.
16:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you hear about like stacking the courts, packing
16:09
Speaker 3: the courts, Francis did a little bit of conclave cardinal packing.
16:14
Speaker 3: One hundred and eight of the one hundred and thirty
16:16
Speaker 3: three members are new and appointed by Francis, so this
16:19
Speaker 3: is their first conclave. So many of these people they've
16:22
Speaker 3: never met. They've been doing a lot of listening sessions
16:24
Speaker 3: and conversations before the doors were even locked to kind
16:27
Speaker 3: of get to know each other, to get to understand
16:29
Speaker 3: the different factions that are forming. And so this really
16:32
Speaker 3: is incredibly uncertain. As a result of that, because it
16:34
Speaker 3: can go two ways. One hand, you could say, hey,
16:37
Speaker 3: they're new, they're more likely to listen to the quote
16:39
Speaker 3: unquote elders. Or you could say they're new they could
16:44
Speaker 3: want to continue and push the church even further in
16:46
Speaker 3: the progressive direction. And so I think there's a lot
16:48
Speaker 3: of questions about how that will actually manifest itself. But
16:51
Speaker 3: one thing that is certainly true is that the makeup
16:55
Speaker 3: geographically is vastly different than it was twelve years ago.
16:59
Speaker 3: Europe used to be the center of power of the
17:04
Speaker 3: Catholic Church.
17:04
Speaker 4: It still is, but much less now.
17:07
Speaker 3: So Africa has more cardinals than it ever has, South
17:10
Speaker 3: America and Asia all have seen significant increases in their
17:13
Speaker 3: percentage of the vote, and so those voters have more
17:17
Speaker 3: weight now to throw around. Whereas it used to just
17:20
Speaker 3: be all right, Europe would kind of just pick their guy.
17:22
Speaker 3: Usually it was an Italian, we had a German, we
17:25
Speaker 3: had a Polish guy. But now with you know, Francis's
17:28
Speaker 3: election and now his reign, the church is much more
17:33
Speaker 3: worldwide than it used to be. And if they want
17:35
Speaker 3: to continue that, they could end up picking somebody who's
17:37
Speaker 3: not in Europe.
17:41
Speaker 1: This is where it starts to get interesting. The politics
17:45
Speaker 1: of the church really are in play here because Francis,
17:52
Speaker 1: as I said at the beginning, has been considered to
17:55
Speaker 1: be a more liberal, more progressive pope. There are players
18:03
Speaker 1: in the church who would like the church to lean
18:05
Speaker 1: more conservative. But to me, in your story, the way
18:11
Speaker 1: you handicapped it, there were only one or two people
18:14
Speaker 1: who really had a chance as conservative sort of backers
18:22
Speaker 1: to become the next pope. Break it down sort of
18:27
Speaker 1: how the moderate liberal conservative factions can influence this.
18:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is.
18:36
Speaker 3: It is hard because you know, the way we think
18:38
Speaker 3: about politics as Americans is inherently a little different than
18:41
Speaker 3: how religious politics work. And then how like even in Europe,
18:44
Speaker 3: how that works because there's different kinds of theory, right,
18:49
Speaker 3: Because you could be a progressive on certain issues that
18:52
Speaker 3: the church takes up, like how do you feel about
18:54
Speaker 3: mass immigration? How do you feel about climate change? Which
18:56
Speaker 3: were things that Francis would be considered very liberal on,
19:00
Speaker 3: but then you could also be more conservative on like
19:02
Speaker 3: the actual Bible, the religious text, the theology of it all,
19:06
Speaker 3: And so you might not see yourself and you could
19:09
Speaker 3: take multiple different positions.
19:11
Speaker 4: And so I think that's where it gets a little
19:12
Speaker 4: bit tricky.
19:13
Speaker 3: When you try to just like line people up on
19:15
Speaker 3: a scale from one to the other. But certainly like
19:19
Speaker 3: I think the most conservative front runner is Peter Erdo
19:22
Speaker 3: of from Hungary, who has been a key figure in
19:26
Speaker 3: the conservative block. But he's not like if you watch
19:29
Speaker 3: the movie and I made this joke in the movie,
19:30
Speaker 3: like the conservative guy to Desco. I don't know if
19:33
Speaker 3: you've seen Conclave, but he's like this very like loud, bombastic,
19:36
Speaker 3: like my way of the Highway type that is not
19:38
Speaker 3: really how Erdo is characterized. He's seen as kind of
19:42
Speaker 3: a consensus builder. And so we've seen a right word
19:45
Speaker 3: shift along a lot of political institutions in Europe, especially
19:49
Speaker 3: elections have gone the way of right wing parties. But
19:52
Speaker 3: this is not an election of like your average Catholic voter.
19:55
Speaker 3: This is people again that France has picked. And so
19:57
Speaker 3: if Francis's influence is going to away on this conclave,
20:01
Speaker 3: and he seemed to be pretty well respected by the
20:03
Speaker 3: majority of the of the voters in this conclave, then
20:06
Speaker 3: how do you form a two thirds consensus without people
20:10
Speaker 3: who liked him and want his legacy to continue. That's
20:12
Speaker 3: where I think it does get hard for the more
20:14
Speaker 3: conservative candidates.
20:17
Speaker 1: I like airdo because you can say post hoc airdough
20:24
Speaker 1: propter hoc and and it almost feels like you're back
20:30
Speaker 1: in the West wing. That, by the way, is Latin
20:32
Speaker 1: for after this therefore, because of this, but we did
20:36
Speaker 1: a little wordplay, it's airgo, not airdo. Simon Matt Mitchell
20:40
Speaker 1: is probably going to cut that out plain to about
20:43
Speaker 1: one other persons same. Here's what I like about this
20:55
Speaker 1: from a completely from a handicapping exercise. There is literally
21:02
Speaker 1: zero information available, right and unless you're the you know,
21:08
Speaker 1: Vatican bureau chief for the New York Times or the
21:12
Speaker 1: Washington Post or the Guardian or any other international media outlet,
21:19
Speaker 1: there's no sourcing. None of those reporters are in the conclave,
21:23
Speaker 1: and a lot of those reporters have probably never met
21:25
Speaker 1: the cardinals who are coming, because a lot of the
21:27
Speaker 1: cardinals have never met each other because they're coming from outposts.
21:31
Speaker 1: So it's almost like this is a clean slate handicapping opportunity, right, Like,
21:37
Speaker 1: how would you even you say you're bet on anything?
21:39
Speaker 1: How do you even go about trying to figure out
21:42
Speaker 1: how to make an intelligent trade on this?
21:46
Speaker 2: Well, it feels like the more I read about it
21:47
Speaker 2: feels like there are angles to attack with this. So
21:50
Speaker 2: that's all I'm interested where Anthey's gonna say about it,
21:51
Speaker 2: because it's like it seems like people who are smart
21:54
Speaker 2: and like him have done a ton of research on
21:57
Speaker 2: this all because I had no idea about out them,
22:00
Speaker 2: you know, having more guys outside of Europe, because what
22:03
Speaker 2: he just said is true to me, where it's just
22:05
Speaker 2: all these old guys who are all in Europe picking
22:07
Speaker 2: their buddies to be the next pope. Like that's just
22:09
Speaker 2: always the way it's always been. So this year is interesting, right.
22:13
Speaker 2: We have a couple of long shot odds that I
22:15
Speaker 2: can't wait to hear Anthony dive into. That's like, is
22:17
Speaker 2: there a good value there? Like cause we're, like you
22:19
Speaker 2: just said, it's a lot of unknown, Like there's a
22:21
Speaker 2: lot of hearsay taking angles because you know, I mean
22:25
Speaker 2: Matt Mitchell sent his stuff about guy's body weight and
22:28
Speaker 2: his skinny popes, and it's like, I love it all.
22:30
Speaker 2: It's people are just grasping his strolls here. But there's
22:33
Speaker 2: value that you can you can take these weird angles
22:36
Speaker 2: to make these weird bets, and I mean it could
22:38
Speaker 2: be hitting a huge home run like there's some crazy
22:40
Speaker 2: long shot odds here on some of these popes.
22:43
Speaker 3: Thirty three to one. That were the odds on Francis
22:45
Speaker 3: in twenty thirteen at one book.
22:46
Speaker 1: Well look that's the eifteen favorite, right, he was thirty
22:50
Speaker 1: three to one because there had never.
22:51
Speaker 3: Been a pope from South America, So people were like,
22:53
Speaker 3: why would we why would we see this guy as
22:55
Speaker 3: a favorite?
22:56
Speaker 1: Ben Bendict was Benedict didn't have short odds, you know,
23:00
Speaker 1: John Paul didn't have short odds. They never do, so
23:03
Speaker 1: it's almost like you need to discount the top.
23:05
Speaker 4: Of the board.
23:06
Speaker 1: But for purposes of housekeeping, give us like the current
23:10
Speaker 1: odds and a little bit of background on each person
23:15
Speaker 1: so people can understand what they're looking at when they
23:18
Speaker 1: go on to Kelshi and they see sort of some
23:21
Speaker 1: of these markets.
23:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'll say right now, I think there's a
23:24
Speaker 3: clear top five consensus on who the people really should
23:28
Speaker 3: be here. The favorite, and he's been kind of the
23:30
Speaker 3: favorite since the beginning is Pietro Powerline.
23:32
Speaker 4: He's Italian.
23:33
Speaker 3: He would be considered kind of the moderate ish version,
23:37
Speaker 3: a continuation of Francis. The main reason he's seen is
23:40
Speaker 3: the favorite one.
23:42
Speaker 4: He has the most.
23:42
Speaker 3: Connections to the other cardinals, right, he's kind of been
23:45
Speaker 3: there the longest, kind of the elder statesman of the Vatican.
23:48
Speaker 3: And he was also the Secretary of State of the Vatican,
23:50
Speaker 3: which is like the deputy Pope that they call him,
23:52
Speaker 3: and so he's, you know, very close to Francis, very
23:55
Speaker 3: close to how things work in the Vatican.
23:56
Speaker 4: He's kind of the insider, moderate.
23:58
Speaker 3: Continuation choice if the Church could go that way, and
24:02
Speaker 3: I don't think anybody would be surprised. The second favorite
24:05
Speaker 3: is Luis Antonio Tagle and he is they call him
24:08
Speaker 3: the Asian Francis. He's from the Philippines. There's never been
24:11
Speaker 3: an Asian pope. He is a pretty progressive guy who
24:15
Speaker 3: has spent time both at his outpost in the Global South,
24:18
Speaker 3: which is I think an interesting part of this developing country,
24:21
Speaker 3: kind of similar to what Francis's path was to the papacy.
24:25
Speaker 3: But he's also been in the Vatican too, so he's
24:27
Speaker 3: served in the Vatican in an administrative role as well.
24:30
Speaker 3: So he's kind of been around and he's at twenty
24:32
Speaker 3: five percent right now, Paroline's at thirty three. So those
24:35
Speaker 3: are the two favorites I would say, the buzzy dark
24:38
Speaker 3: horse that everybody likes is Pierre Battista Pizza Bala, which
24:44
Speaker 3: is quite an Italian name. He's gotten a lot of
24:47
Speaker 3: juice because he got put in a really tough situation.
24:51
Speaker 3: He's a young guy who is now the first person
24:55
Speaker 3: serving in the Catholic Church in Jerusalem, which he got
24:58
Speaker 3: the job one week before the October seventh attack by Hamas,
25:03
Speaker 3: so he gets thrown into a war zone basically week
25:06
Speaker 3: one on the job and has made a lot of
25:09
Speaker 3: positive headway and headlines and gained a lot of respect
25:11
Speaker 3: I think on both sides of that war because of
25:15
Speaker 3: how he's handled it. He even offered himself up as
25:17
Speaker 3: a hostage to say trade me for these hostages, I'll
25:20
Speaker 3: you know, be taken in. And I think a lot
25:22
Speaker 3: of people like him. He is too young, though, and
25:25
Speaker 3: that is one thing we've seen where like, if you're
25:27
Speaker 3: really young, the pa Pole conclave is like, eh, you know,
25:31
Speaker 3: we don't want you to serve for thirty years. We
25:33
Speaker 3: want like, you know, eight to ten years and then
25:34
Speaker 3: we'll pick somebody else. Because if you pick somebody and
25:37
Speaker 3: he serves for a really long time and you don't
25:39
Speaker 3: like him, now the church has gone very far and
25:42
Speaker 3: very long without the next conclave, so it is a
25:45
Speaker 3: bit of a power grab. And then Matteo Zoopie. We
25:47
Speaker 3: talked about Aerdo. He's on the mix too, Mateo Zoope.
25:50
Speaker 3: It would be the progressive insider choice. He's the archbishop
25:53
Speaker 3: of Bologna. He is a very close friend of Francis.
25:57
Speaker 3: They call him Don Matteo. He's well liked in those
26:00
Speaker 3: another insider choice as well.
26:03
Speaker 1: Have you gone back and tried to calculate the average
26:08
Speaker 1: odds for I don't even know if there were odds
26:12
Speaker 1: for John Paul or how we would find them, but
26:16
Speaker 1: what were the average odds for Benedict? What were the
26:18
Speaker 1: what were the average what was the average ods for
26:20
Speaker 1: Benedict and Francis? And who's in that position? Because as
26:25
Speaker 1: we've said, the favorites never win and it ends up
26:30
Speaker 1: being someone who nobody was thinking about, which I think
26:33
Speaker 1: is inherent in the process, right because they need a
26:38
Speaker 1: two thirds majority and immediately people start jockeying and peeling
26:44
Speaker 1: off votes. And again all my knowledge about what happens
26:47
Speaker 1: in a conclave is coming from the movie Conclave, where
26:51
Speaker 1: you know, like someone is politicking behind the scenes, so
26:56
Speaker 1: who's in that sweet spot of odds that we should
27:00
Speaker 1: be looking at.
27:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I have the last five papal elections and
27:05
Speaker 3: shout out to the smoke filled room substack written by
27:08
Speaker 3: Brendan Higgins. He has done some incredible research and honestly
27:12
Speaker 3: was a huge part of the piece writing this. So
27:15
Speaker 3: Francis was seen as thirty two to one. He was
27:18
Speaker 3: not the favorite. Three to one was Benedict in two
27:22
Speaker 3: thousand and five, he was the favorite twenty five percent.
27:26
Speaker 3: There were no odds listed for John Paul the Second
27:29
Speaker 3: or first, so they weren't even on the board and
27:32
Speaker 3: they got picked. And that was a weird conclave because
27:34
Speaker 3: John Paul the First gets elected, he dies almost immediately.
27:38
Speaker 3: There was a lot of conspiracies about that. Then John
27:40
Speaker 3: Paul the Second comes in right after him. He serves
27:42
Speaker 3: for almost thirty years, so they were not on the board.
27:46
Speaker 3: And then John the twenty third in nineteen fifty eight
27:48
Speaker 3: he was the favorite.
27:49
Speaker 4: So this list has ten names.
27:52
Speaker 3: On the board going back to fifteen oh three, which
27:54
Speaker 3: we have odds for. Only three of them were favorites,
27:57
Speaker 3: and you know, three of the last four were not
28:00
Speaker 3: seen as top of the board picks I think if
28:04
Speaker 3: you're looking for the Benedict type candidate, or sorry, the
28:07
Speaker 3: Francis type candidate.
28:08
Speaker 4: It's probably toag Lay.
28:10
Speaker 3: But the thing is, we all just saw the Francis
28:12
Speaker 3: thing happen, so now everybody's kind of hypothesizing that tog
28:14
Speaker 3: Lay is the new Francis. So if this were twenty thirteen,
28:17
Speaker 3: tog Lea's odds would have been what Francis's odds were.
28:20
Speaker 3: But now we're kind of a little smarter to it
28:21
Speaker 3: that they might want to look forward. And their membership
28:24
Speaker 3: in Asia has been growing pretty big, pretty big in
28:26
Speaker 3: the last ten years, so.
28:27
Speaker 2: And the Philippines is like a fighting ground in religion,
28:31
Speaker 2: so I mean.
28:32
Speaker 4: That very Catholic too.
28:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so that's that's also another interesting part of
28:36
Speaker 2: that where it's like that's that could give them a
28:38
Speaker 2: big edge in that region that they're looking for, because
28:41
Speaker 2: it's like they're not that they've given up on the
28:44
Speaker 2: Western civilization like America and Canada, but you definitely see
28:49
Speaker 2: they are attacking Catholic religion is really trying to spread
28:53
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say attacking spreading in Asia.
28:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Africa, the two fastest growing Catholic outposts in
29:00
Speaker 3: the world. And so if the Church is saying, hey,
29:04
Speaker 3: we want to, you know, think long term here, that
29:06
Speaker 3: could be a thinking, but it's it's still saying like,
29:09
Speaker 3: we're still trying to make history here. By picking an
29:11
Speaker 3: African pope, by picking an Asian pope, you're still betting
29:13
Speaker 3: on something that you know, probably makes a lot of
29:16
Speaker 3: people in that room a little uncomfortable.
29:18
Speaker 1: I wonder why that is. They just pissed picked the
29:20
Speaker 1: South American pope and that was historic, and now the
29:26
Speaker 1: makeup of the conclave is so different. And if you're
29:29
Speaker 1: thinking practically, why wouldn't you choose a pope who can
29:34
Speaker 1: represent either either Asian or African nations where you are
29:42
Speaker 1: the fastest growing, where there is a huge populace, where
29:45
Speaker 1: you have an opportunity to spread the Catholic religion, when
29:51
Speaker 1: you're not making as many as much headway in Western civilization.
29:55
Speaker 1: As Simon points out, I refer I prefer not to
29:58
Speaker 1: call it attacking the Asian and African continent, as Simon would,
30:04
Speaker 1: but maybe that's just his biologic.
30:07
Speaker 3: At the end of the day, the Church cares a
30:09
Speaker 3: lot about survival, it's about growth, it's about the future.
30:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I mean, so you're like, you're like
30:16
Speaker 2: shocked of the Catholic Church is an excepting of other cultures.
30:20
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I'm not.
30:22
Speaker 1: I'm not shocked at all.
30:23
Speaker 3: Well, that's what makes my favorite dark horse pick interesting.
30:26
Speaker 1: Uh.
30:27
Speaker 3: John John Mark Abilene He's French, serves in Marseilles. He's
30:31
Speaker 3: the Archbishop of Marseille. The story is that he was
30:34
Speaker 3: Francis his favorite bishop. But he's kind of at the
30:38
Speaker 3: mix of all of this, right, He's European, but he's
30:40
Speaker 3: not Italian. He was born in Algeria, his family emigrated
30:44
Speaker 3: to Marseille. He's lived in Marseille forever. And Marseille is
30:47
Speaker 3: one of the most multicultural, kind of like melting pot
30:50
Speaker 3: cities in the world, the way that that country and
30:53
Speaker 3: city has dealt with poverty, to migration, to assimilation.
30:58
Speaker 4: So there's been so much there.
30:59
Speaker 3: And he could end up being if if they say, hey,
31:01
Speaker 3: we want a European again, but we don't necessarily want
31:04
Speaker 3: to just hand it back to the Italians. He could
31:06
Speaker 3: end up being the compromised moderate candidate who emerges. And
31:09
Speaker 3: he's at three percent right now, three percent on Kalshi.
31:15
Speaker 1: I think that's where I'm gonna go.
31:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
31:17
Speaker 4: I mean, the thing is, the French have always been
31:19
Speaker 4: a little weird. They don't love the French.
31:22
Speaker 3: They do not love the French generally.
31:25
Speaker 1: I don't know. It just seems to me like we
31:28
Speaker 1: got to take someone who's at the bottom of the
31:30
Speaker 1: percentage odds here and anyone who is being publicly discussed.
31:36
Speaker 1: What's that line in the story you had, anyone who
31:38
Speaker 1: you know the next pope always walks out as a cardinal. Yes,
31:42
Speaker 1: So anyone who thinks they have the upper hand and
31:46
Speaker 1: is going into the conclave with the expectation that it
31:51
Speaker 1: could be them, let's take the top five off the board.
31:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, it doesn't happen that way. It trues.
31:57
Speaker 1: They're going to be a cardinal. They're going to stay
31:59
Speaker 1: a cardinal. They're going to be really happy and inside
32:02
Speaker 1: it's going to be a knife fight when they get out,
32:04
Speaker 1: and everyone is talking about it's going to be we
32:06
Speaker 1: found the right person, and we're super excited about it.
32:09
Speaker 1: And the consensus was easy because the represents our values.
32:13
Speaker 1: It's exactly what it's going to be. All right, Anthony,
32:17
Speaker 1: give me your plays and Simon, after this conversation, you
32:20
Speaker 1: are a professional vetter who's got a keen insight into psyche.
32:24
Speaker 1: I want to hear what your play is and then
32:26
Speaker 1: I will give you mine.
32:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I did take some tog Lay.
32:30
Speaker 3: I do think that his popularity, his emerging markets kind
32:35
Speaker 3: of play is the most interesting angle of this entire
32:38
Speaker 3: conclave because of his opportunity. I think Africa doesn't have
32:43
Speaker 3: on paper the same consensus person that the whole continent
32:47
Speaker 3: could rally around. They're pretty split and how they're broken
32:50
Speaker 3: down from Robert Sarah who's more conservative, to Turksen, who's
32:55
Speaker 3: a bit more moderate, to other cadidates who are more liberal.
32:57
Speaker 3: So there's more names that have emerged by But if
33:01
Speaker 3: the Asian Bloc gets behind tog Lay early and ends
33:05
Speaker 3: up being the clear guy, then I think it could
33:08
Speaker 3: end up happening as early as today.
33:09
Speaker 4: To be honest with him.
33:11
Speaker 3: But Aveleene's my favorite dark horse. I found the equivalent
33:15
Speaker 3: of twenty to one on him, so I took some
33:17
Speaker 3: of that. I think once you get below that, you
33:21
Speaker 3: might as well just start drawing straws. I don't know
33:24
Speaker 3: how you even come to certain conclusions on that on
33:27
Speaker 3: other candidates, but there's never been an American pope, so
33:30
Speaker 3: I would not bet on the Americans, especially given the
33:33
Speaker 3: current geopolitical climate, but you never know. Ultimately, Aveline and
33:37
Speaker 3: Toglay are the two I settled on.
33:40
Speaker 1: Who were the who's even like the American candidate?
33:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, there really aren't necessarily any At the top of
33:50
Speaker 3: the board. Raymond Burke was the number one, and he
33:52
Speaker 3: made headlines because he wanted to not allow I don't
33:55
Speaker 3: want to get into politics, but he didn't want to
33:57
Speaker 3: give Joe Biden communion, so like that.
33:59
Speaker 4: Was the whole thing. He said, Like he's a like
34:01
Speaker 4: one percent.
34:01
Speaker 3: Robert Privost is probably the other American at the board.
34:04
Speaker 4: He's two percent.
34:05
Speaker 3: So there's a couple of names, but not not not many.
34:08
Speaker 1: All right, Simon, you've heard it. You're a handicapper. At
34:12
Speaker 1: the end of the day, it's a blank slate. You're
34:15
Speaker 1: not coming to this with any edge. There's no there's
34:18
Speaker 1: no power ranking you can make, there's no model you
34:21
Speaker 1: can do. Hearing everything you've heard, chatter you've had from
34:26
Speaker 1: your Catholic Philly community, what do you got?
34:31
Speaker 2: Well, first, I want to give prop Stanthony for just
34:33
Speaker 2: smoothly listening off all these guys' names, like it took
34:36
Speaker 2: me forever amazing.
34:38
Speaker 3: I practiced this morning it because I did a lot
34:41
Speaker 3: of reading for this, but I didn't do like that
34:44
Speaker 3: much listening, and so when you're writing the names, it's easy.
34:46
Speaker 3: But then I was like, oh, shoot, like, let me
34:48
Speaker 3: make sure I have Pierre Batista pizza bala pronounced correctly. Honestly,
34:52
Speaker 3: I watch a lot of soccer, so that that does
34:54
Speaker 3: help with the foreign names.
34:55
Speaker 2: There you go, yeah, like again it's a rare betw
35:00
Speaker 2: were you know? Luis the guy from the Philippines. He's
35:04
Speaker 2: the right age, like he's sixty seven, I think, so
35:08
Speaker 2: to me, that's like what they're looking for. They want
35:10
Speaker 2: someone like right around that age. He's not the main guy,
35:13
Speaker 2: which I feel like he nailed a chad where like
35:15
Speaker 2: men inherently are weird and jealous creatures, and the guy
35:18
Speaker 2: who is the man of the group, he might not
35:21
Speaker 2: be the man to a lot of people, but they
35:22
Speaker 2: act like it to his face and they wait for
35:25
Speaker 2: these type of moments that in secrecy, they can take
35:28
Speaker 2: away some of his power. This guy who thinks he's
35:30
Speaker 2: the shit, It's like, no, you're not, and we're gonna
35:33
Speaker 2: give it to someone else who's more deserving. So Yeah,
35:36
Speaker 2: I just think that whole market, the fact that they're
35:38
Speaker 2: trying to spread in Asia, that just makes more sense
35:40
Speaker 2: to me, the voting a guy who seems like a
35:43
Speaker 2: good guy, seems like he's well liked, and like, even
35:46
Speaker 2: just reading about him before he came on today, it's
35:48
Speaker 2: like this guy is well traveled, like he's done a
35:50
Speaker 2: lot in his years of service. So I didn't know.
35:54
Speaker 2: I didn't realize his age. To me, that's the big
35:55
Speaker 2: factory here is the fact that he is sixty seven
35:58
Speaker 2: sixty eight, Like that's a big deal when they these
36:00
Speaker 2: votes chads. So yeah, I'm going with the twenty percenter guy.
36:03
Speaker 2: Not the greatest odds, but I'll take it.
36:05
Speaker 1: I think I'm with Aveline. I feel like I feel
36:09
Speaker 1: like a he's also up there. I think he's what
36:13
Speaker 1: sixty six sixty seven number one, number two. I think
36:19
Speaker 1: if we're talking about and if we're talking about the
36:22
Speaker 1: makeup of the conclave still heavily European and to them,
36:30
Speaker 1: to them, France may be Asia, And what I mean
36:35
Speaker 1: is they could be looking at this as that Asia
36:39
Speaker 1: and Africa might be one step too far. But we
36:42
Speaker 1: get a guy from Marseille, and that is a melting pot,
36:46
Speaker 1: and that it has been a town in France that
36:51
Speaker 1: has been in the epicenter of what a lot of
36:54
Speaker 1: has been igniting anti immigration sentiment in France and a
37:00
Speaker 1: lot of conflict within the country. As you can see,
37:03
Speaker 1: I'm very well read, and so I think this guy
37:07
Speaker 1: can represent something that is, you know, not ten degrees
37:14
Speaker 1: off center, but maybe three degrees off center, and to
37:16
Speaker 1: what is ultimately a very conservative body. As no matter
37:21
Speaker 1: how much we talk about liberal, moderate, progressive and conservative,
37:24
Speaker 1: this is ultimately a very conservative body. I think he
37:28
Speaker 1: represents change given what we've seen so far. If we're
37:34
Speaker 1: playing a guy who's not even on the board basically,
37:37
Speaker 1: who can reach a plurality of voters, who is moderate
37:44
Speaker 1: but not progressive, can be a little bit different. He's
37:49
Speaker 1: not Italian, but he's not African. I think it's him.
37:56
Speaker 4: I would be fine with that. I got some action
37:58
Speaker 4: down on him.
38:00
Speaker 3: I said he was Francis's number one friend amongst the cardinals, amongst.
38:04
Speaker 4: His favorite bishop. He seems like a really likable guy.
38:08
Speaker 3: And the one big thing politically for him is he
38:12
Speaker 3: has been very pro immigrant, but he's been against kind
38:15
Speaker 3: of the idea of forcing mass migration onto cities, and
38:17
Speaker 3: he said, like, look what's happened in Marseille when we've
38:19
Speaker 3: tried these things. And the other big thing I think
38:21
Speaker 3: that he's really hung his hat on is communications between faiths.
38:25
Speaker 4: And we'll see what the church thinks about that.
38:27
Speaker 3: But he lives in a city where that is kind
38:29
Speaker 3: of expected and needed because of how diverse it is.
38:32
Speaker 3: There's a big Muslim population as well in Marseille, and
38:35
Speaker 3: so if that plays, if Catholicism is trying to look
38:39
Speaker 3: toward more cooperation between.
38:41
Speaker 4: Faiths, then he could end up being the guy.
38:44
Speaker 1: What I like here is I paused to get a
38:47
Speaker 1: reaction from Anthony and Simon, two Catholic raised boys from
38:55
Speaker 1: the Philly area, and the first response is Anthony, I
38:59
Speaker 1: like that. And my head I was thinking, oh, is
39:01
Speaker 1: it Catholic?
39:02
Speaker 4: He likes that?
39:02
Speaker 1: And then the next line was I got some money
39:05
Speaker 1: on that. So I'm glad to see that during this enlightened, thoughtful,
39:11
Speaker 1: culturally contextualized conversation, your priorities, Anthony de Bundo remained the same. Anthony, Listen,
39:19
Speaker 1: you did a great job breaking that down. You did
39:21
Speaker 1: a great job writing that story on the Ringer. It's fantastic.
39:25
Speaker 1: People should go check it out link in the description
39:28
Speaker 1: for both YouTube and the podcast link. So in the
39:33
Speaker 1: podcast page, well well done, We're going to find out
39:37
Speaker 1: by the time the next episode airs, We're going to
39:39
Speaker 1: know who the Pope is and I'm super excited to
39:40
Speaker 1: see what the final resolution, what the white smoke says.
39:45
Speaker 1: Simon and I will return with our next episode of
39:48
Speaker 1: the Favorites Tuesday on the Action Network YouTube page. Don't forget.
39:51
Speaker 1: Also subscribe at Real Chad Milman, download us some Spotify,
39:56
Speaker 1: Apple Pods wherever you get your pods, rate review, subscribe,
39:58
Speaker 1: leave us five stars, say whatever you want. Feedback is gain.
40:00
Speaker 1: Until next time, Love you.
40:09
Speaker 4: Action Network reminds you please gamble responsibly.
40:13
Speaker 1: If you or someone you care about has a gambling problem,
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Speaker 1: help is available twenty four to seven at one eight
40:18
Speaker 1: hundred Gambler